393 | When to Set Limits (and When Not To) in CCPT + Removing Toys

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering two questions from Lana.

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One is about a 7-year-old client

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and one is about

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Just play playroom logistics.

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So,

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both helpful questions.

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We will dive in

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before I get there.

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I don't typically do this.

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I just want to make y'all aware.

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I just

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closed out my coaching cohort for the Play Therapy Professional program,

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but I do want to let you know

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if you are interested in being in private practice,

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if you just opened a private practice,

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if your goal is to be in private practice,

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and you want CCPT training as well as private practice business coaching.

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I have my Six-Figure Play Therapist cohort starting

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in May,

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May 21st.

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It will be Thursdays at 3 and I have two spots open.

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So if you are interested.

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In the notes,

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you'll find where you need to go and you can schedule a discovery call

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and we'll make sure it's a good fit.

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Just a little PSA for those of you that wanna join the private practice ranks.

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All right.

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So,

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let's dive into the questions and then we'll

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take a look together.

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I'm working with a 7-year-old child,

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session 12,

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with a history of foster care and adoption and an ADHD diagnosis.

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Behaviorally,

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she presents with significant challenges at home and school,

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including aggression towards adults,

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siblings,

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peer friendship difficulties,

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struggles with regulation.

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She's consistently excited to attend sessions and often

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initiates connection such as hugging me goodbye.

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I've used ACT limit setting when needed,

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and she has responded well.

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Some behaviors,

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feel clear to me.

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Intentionally damaging toys or leaving the room,

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and I feel increasingly confident setting limits in those moments.

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Other strategies have also been successful.

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For example,

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when she abruptly moves toward the door,

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neutral tracking has allowed her to start to pause and self-correct,

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or,

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at a minimum,

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give me time to move into limit setting if needed.

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Other behaviors are more tricky,

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however,

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for example,

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if she chooses a board game and wants to set it up on the table,

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she might suddenly clear the table and knock all the items to the floor.

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Objects usually not at risk of breaking.

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I track the behavior and reflect the desire to play or urgency,

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but I sometimes find myself wondering whether that is sufficient

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or whether something more is needed.

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She may use a harsh tone.

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Move,

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grab items,

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toss things aside on the floor,

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or at times push past me while moving in the room,

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not aggressively,

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but without apparent awareness.

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She often presents with a relatively flat affect

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and can be difficult to read emotionally.

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I've tried reflecting tone.

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You told me to move using that voice,

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for example,

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and she ignores this.

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When these types of behaviors occur across settings,

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and they are contributing to her difficulties with peers,

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making friends,

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conflict with members and school staff,

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is there anything additional I should be holding in mind?

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I remind myself to trust the process,

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and yet I notice some internal uncertainty

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about how best to understand and respond,

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especially when they can be on the edge of requiring a limit.

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All right,

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so that's question one.

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We'll dive into the next question in a second.

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But

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I think it's really important to recognize

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your own

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answer that you've already provided,

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which is,

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you're on the verge of setting a limit,

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but you're not because the limits aren't necessary.

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So let's,

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let's pause on that note and then I'll go to the next level.

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So,

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we have questions that we ask ourselves.

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But we also have unspoken rules for why limits are required.

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So,

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pop quiz time,

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what are the 3 reasons we're going to set a limit unequivocally every time?

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I'm sure you all knew.

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I have to be safe,

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you have to be safe,

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toys can't be broken on purpose.

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All right,

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so then,

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If we recognize that none of those qualify,

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she's safe,

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you're safe,

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the toys are not getting broken,

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we know that we aren't going to immediately set a limit because it's not warranted.

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But then we have 3 questions that we ask ourselves also.

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Pop quiz number 2,

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what are the 3 questions that we ask ourselves?

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I'm sure that was also effective.

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I can,

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I imagine y'all like yelling at me and it makes me so happy.

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Like I just sit in silence,

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but I can imagine like all of you screaming out your answers.

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It makes me happy.

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OK,

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so the questions we ask ourselves are,

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is this limit necessary?

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All right,

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so

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if we've ruled out,

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I'm safe,

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you're safe,

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toys are not getting broken or damaged.

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Do I need to do anything?

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What sometimes begins as,

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oh,

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I have this propensity to set this limit

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if we actually say,

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but is it necessary

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and we pause and we give it a beat

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and we just wait.

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Often

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we end up going,

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no,

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I don't need to set a limit here.

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So that is probably a helpful litmus test

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in this scenario.

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Second question,

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can I consistently enforce this limit?

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In other words,

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if I'm going to set this,

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is this just a this moment thing,

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or is this something that I'm going to enforce

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forever?

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Because once a limit is established,

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it is established.

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And often we set limits flippantly and then

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we get ourselves in trouble because we're like,

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I can't enforce that 4 weeks from now.

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All right.

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So be mindful of is it consistently enforceable?

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And then final question.

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Which sometimes shoves us in one direction or another,

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quite frankly,

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is,

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can I allow this behavior to continue and

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still maintain full acceptance of the child.

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And I don't know this,

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Lana,

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for sure,

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but my gut tells me

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that part of why you're questioning this is maybe that

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it

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bothers you to a degree.

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Maybe you don't like being told to move.

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Maybe you don't like her shoving you out of the way.

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Maybe you don't like her swiping the table.

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Maybe there's something at the deep part of you like subconsciously,

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real small.

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I mean,

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I don't think you're overtly reacting by any means,

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but maybe there's this tiny little part of you that just kind of bristles

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at the whole thing and so

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you're kind of leaning towards setting a limit.

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Can you unconditionally accept the child

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if she does that every week for 30 weeks straight?

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And for some of us,

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sometimes the answer is no.

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You might get to a point where you're like,

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I am so frustrated

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that you keep doing this,

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you're no longer accepting the child

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and therefore

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it's potential fracture in a relationship

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and therefore it requires a limit.

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Is it violating one of the unspoken rules?

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No,

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because you're safe,

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she's safe,

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and the toys aren't getting broken,

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but maybe it's a conditional acceptance.

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And if we can't unconditionally accept,

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Then we're not at the heart of what CCPT is all about.

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So 3 reasons,

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3 questions.

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In this case,

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hearing what you've described,

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at least,

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Lana,

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I would not set a limit here.

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I don't think a limit is needed.

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I don't think it's warranted.

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Now I'm gonna tackle the second layer because the second layer is

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you're realizing that this is happening in other environments

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and they're contributing to difficulties because parents are

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reporting this and school are reporting this.

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So,

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is there anything else you should be holding in mind?

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You should be holding in mind that that's the very

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reason why she's playing this stuff out in your playroom.

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It's not happenstance or coincidence

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that

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she's working through this stuff with you.

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She knows she needs to.

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If she's behaving like this in the playroom,

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it's because she has to figure out how to adjust.

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She's trying to become a better version of herself.

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So,

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the,

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the bent

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or the inclination sometimes is,

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oh well,

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I mean this is like one of the major

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issues that this child's having.

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Like this is one of the things that the parents get most frustrated about.

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So I'm going to take this opportunity to really

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make sure that they understand that this isn't OK,

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and we do it in a CCPT way,

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maybe.

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It doesn't become like a directive teaching moment per se,

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but we use it as this very subtle way

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to quote,

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help the child understand what's going on.

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That's agenda driven.

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And it is directive in nature,

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and it's not CCPT.

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That's a drift.

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So,

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what do you hold in mind,

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Lana?

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You do trust the process as you already answered for yourself,

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and you

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believe

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that by staying adherent to the model,

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That's all that she needs.

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She doesn't need anything more from you.

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And when you said

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you have uncertainty when it's on the edge of requiring a limit,

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I think one of the challenges we all face

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is

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push the needle.

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In other words,

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what at one point we say that's on the edge of requiring a limit.

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To hear you describe this scenario,

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granted,

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I'm 21 years in and thousands of kids in,

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but

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I hear that and I go,

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Oh my gosh,

278
00:09:13,109 --> 00:09:14,630
that's so far from the edge of a limit.

279
00:09:14,710 --> 00:09:17,130
Like there are 47,000 things

280
00:09:17,479 --> 00:09:19,489
that would be closer to the limit than that.

281
00:09:19,989 --> 00:09:21,659
So we're always trying to

282
00:09:21,869 --> 00:09:23,130
adjust the threshold.

283
00:09:23,669 --> 00:09:26,210
We're always trying to ease toward the compass

284
00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:27,489
and the needle going,

285
00:09:27,710 --> 00:09:27,869
nope,

286
00:09:28,030 --> 00:09:28,219
I,

287
00:09:28,309 --> 00:09:29,179
I can handle that.

288
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:29,950
I can handle that.

289
00:09:29,989 --> 00:09:30,830
I can handle that.

290
00:09:31,409 --> 00:09:31,419
Because

291
00:09:32,330 --> 00:09:33,690
the more permissive we can be,

292
00:09:33,729 --> 00:09:35,450
the more autonomy the child has.

293
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,039
The more we're able to be fully CCPT.

294
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,530
The playroom is not meant to have a lot of rules and expectations and limits.

295
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:46,979
We're,

296
00:09:47,039 --> 00:09:49,080
we're trying to be as permissive as possible.

297
00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:51,700
And limits are only needed when they're needed.

298
00:09:52,190 --> 00:09:53,710
So I hope that that is helpful.

299
00:09:53,830 --> 00:09:53,950
We're,

300
00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:56,190
we're all struggling at times with limits.

301
00:09:56,229 --> 00:09:57,619
It's one of the trickiest skills.

302
00:09:57,989 --> 00:09:59,169
So I really appreciate the question.

303
00:09:59,270 --> 00:09:59,469
All right,

304
00:09:59,549 --> 00:10:00,849
let's move on to question two.

305
00:10:01,229 --> 00:10:04,739
I'm navigating a practical shift in my playroom and would value your perspective.

306
00:10:04,989 --> 00:10:05,869
During my internship,

307
00:10:05,950 --> 00:10:08,570
I had a small caseload and offered slime as a choice.

308
00:10:08,950 --> 00:10:11,429
I restocked materials between sessions and ensured

309
00:10:11,429 --> 00:10:13,250
the same amount was available per child.

310
00:10:13,510 --> 00:10:15,000
I absolutely love slime.

311
00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:16,489
God bless you.

312
00:10:17,469 --> 00:10:18,090
No thanks.

313
00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:19,369
However,

314
00:10:19,869 --> 00:10:21,510
now that my caseload has increased,

315
00:10:21,570 --> 00:10:23,090
it's becoming harder to clean up,

316
00:10:23,270 --> 00:10:25,530
harder to maintain the materials consistently,

317
00:10:25,950 --> 00:10:27,820
and in my new shared carpeted space,

318
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,510
it does not work particularly well.

319
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:30,729
I can imagine not.

320
00:10:31,429 --> 00:10:34,929
I've also noticed that with some of my more exuberant slime makers,

321
00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:38,090
I feel my own anxiety rise around the mess and containment.

322
00:10:38,510 --> 00:10:41,070
I currently have two clients who choose slime every session.

323
00:10:41,150 --> 00:10:43,250
I want to phase this out as a choice

324
00:10:43,429 --> 00:10:44,590
and approach this thoughtfully,

325
00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:48,109
but I'm unsure how to best do that in a way that feels congruent with CCPT.

326
00:10:48,669 --> 00:10:50,929
Especially since I expect at least one of them

327
00:10:51,309 --> 00:10:52,710
to push me for the why.

328
00:10:53,429 --> 00:10:57,260
I'd really value your thoughts on the underlying why of this choice as well.

329
00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:58,869
My sense is that for both children,

330
00:10:58,989 --> 00:11:00,130
there's a sensory piece

331
00:11:00,429 --> 00:11:02,109
and that slime connects to mastery,

332
00:11:02,349 --> 00:11:03,260
tolerance for mistakes,

333
00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:04,030
and self-esteem,

334
00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:07,929
but I'd love your perspective on what might be met through this type of play.

335
00:11:08,549 --> 00:11:08,830
All right,

336
00:11:08,950 --> 00:11:11,309
so two-part question on question number 2.

337
00:11:12,070 --> 00:11:12,650
1st,

338
00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:16,289
Every single one of us needs to know

339
00:11:16,989 --> 00:11:17,510
ourselves.

340
00:11:17,979 --> 00:11:17,989
I,

341
00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:18,190
I mean,

342
00:11:18,270 --> 00:11:18,590
honestly,

343
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:19,950
in CCPT know thyself,

344
00:11:19,979 --> 00:11:20,409
y'all.

345
00:11:21,070 --> 00:11:22,849
You need to recognize what

346
00:11:23,710 --> 00:11:24,969
you have bandwidth for,

347
00:11:25,390 --> 00:11:26,809
what you have tolerance for,

348
00:11:27,109 --> 00:11:31,109
and what sets every part of the session up for success.

349
00:11:31,869 --> 00:11:32,619
In other words,

350
00:11:32,789 --> 00:11:34,510
if you have materials in the playroom that

351
00:11:34,510 --> 00:11:36,359
you're constantly having to set limits on,

352
00:11:36,789 --> 00:11:40,750
if you have options in the playroom that make a disastrous mess,

353
00:11:40,859 --> 00:11:43,450
and you're constantly frustrated when you're cleaning it up,

354
00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:46,630
if you have carpet and you have all kinds of liquid stuff in

355
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:49,270
your playroom and you're always worried the carpet's going to get messed up,

356
00:11:49,309 --> 00:11:50,369
and then you're going to have to

357
00:11:50,729 --> 00:11:52,580
pay your landlord to clean the carpets,

358
00:11:52,590 --> 00:11:55,289
and then it's going to be an increase in your lease and so on and so forth.

359
00:11:56,349 --> 00:11:57,090
That's

360
00:11:57,429 --> 00:11:58,650
getting in the way

361
00:11:59,109 --> 00:12:00,489
of CCPT.

362
00:12:01,070 --> 00:12:02,169
The goal is

363
00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:04,650
we structure our playrooms for success

364
00:12:04,869 --> 00:12:07,099
so we can be as permissive as possible.

365
00:12:07,309 --> 00:12:09,729
The child can have as much freedom as possible,

366
00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:12,190
and we're not getting to a point where we can't

367
00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:15,090
allow the behavior because we can no longer accept the child

368
00:12:15,789 --> 00:12:16,960
for those reasons.

369
00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:19,359
I do not have liquid paint in my room.

370
00:12:19,539 --> 00:12:21,369
I do not have liquid glue in my room.

371
00:12:21,599 --> 00:12:23,780
I do not have any materials for slime.

372
00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:25,530
I do not have glitter in my room.

373
00:12:25,659 --> 00:12:27,349
I do not have sequins in my room.

374
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:29,719
I do not have pearler beads in my room.

375
00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:30,760
I do not have.

376
00:12:31,179 --> 00:12:32,780
There are so many things that

377
00:12:33,020 --> 00:12:34,280
over the course of time

378
00:12:34,409 --> 00:12:35,169
I was like,

379
00:12:35,739 --> 00:12:37,739
this just gets in my way.

380
00:12:37,820 --> 00:12:39,099
I'm getting in my own way.

381
00:12:39,179 --> 00:12:40,419
I'm getting in the child's way.

382
00:12:40,479 --> 00:12:42,159
I'm getting in the way of CCPT.

383
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:45,390
I'm going to structure my playroom for success.

384
00:12:45,890 --> 00:12:48,130
So if you reach a point where you're like,

385
00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:48,969
I,

386
00:12:49,090 --> 00:12:50,789
I just can't have this in my room anymore.

387
00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:54,349
It absolutely makes sense to remove them.

388
00:12:55,109 --> 00:12:56,729
And I think it's very helpful

389
00:12:57,119 --> 00:12:59,299
that you are trying to do this thoughtfully,

390
00:12:59,309 --> 00:13:01,809
because when a child is used to doing something,

391
00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:05,190
it is important to try to provide them with consistency.

392
00:13:05,429 --> 00:13:06,330
And so you have your

393
00:13:06,859 --> 00:13:08,150
perpetual slime makers,

394
00:13:08,210 --> 00:13:10,090
they're going to want to keep making slime.

395
00:13:10,549 --> 00:13:12,030
Let me tackle your second question,

396
00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:13,109
and then I'll come back to this one.

397
00:13:13,229 --> 00:13:15,809
So what do I think is at the heart of that kind of play?

398
00:13:16,140 --> 00:13:17,929
It very much is a competence

399
00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:18,510
thing.

400
00:13:19,109 --> 00:13:19,809
And

401
00:13:19,969 --> 00:13:21,849
there's all kinds of stuff worked in there.

402
00:13:21,929 --> 00:13:22,090
I mean,

403
00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:25,150
it's probably under the umbrella of self-esteem because there's

404
00:13:25,289 --> 00:13:26,450
likely perseverance,

405
00:13:26,690 --> 00:13:28,479
there's likely problem solving,

406
00:13:28,570 --> 00:13:29,030
there's

407
00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:30,270
competence in there,

408
00:13:30,739 --> 00:13:31,799
and essentially it's,

409
00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:32,669
it's comfort,

410
00:13:33,090 --> 00:13:33,250
you know,

411
00:13:33,330 --> 00:13:36,429
if a child can come in and do something that they know how to do

412
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:38,270
and that they can do successfully

413
00:13:38,969 --> 00:13:40,429
and it makes them feel good

414
00:13:40,650 --> 00:13:41,190
and.

415
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,400
They're willing to tough it out if things don't exactly go as planned,

416
00:13:44,479 --> 00:13:47,140
and then they sort it out and they're proud of the outcome.

417
00:13:47,510 --> 00:13:48,809
All of that is self-esteem build,

418
00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:50,260
but it's also safe.

419
00:13:50,719 --> 00:13:53,099
So for some kids it's likely

420
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,830
this is something that I feel really competent in,

421
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,840
and so it's an easy gravitation.

422
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:58,590
For others,

423
00:13:58,599 --> 00:14:01,059
it's probably more of a self-esteem build.

424
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,599
But in either scenario for the two that consistently use it.

425
00:14:05,359 --> 00:14:07,580
It would make absolute sense

426
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,099
to just not buy any new materials.

427
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:11,190
In other words,

428
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,719
what you have on hand

429
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,059
can get used up.

430
00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:16,289
And then when

431
00:14:16,950 --> 00:14:19,090
those materials have been consumed,

432
00:14:19,630 --> 00:14:21,159
there's nothing to replace it with.

433
00:14:21,419 --> 00:14:23,890
And then that is a very truthful response

434
00:14:24,229 --> 00:14:25,010
when the kid goes,

435
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:25,349
Wait,

436
00:14:25,469 --> 00:14:26,309
where's the glue?

437
00:14:26,349 --> 00:14:27,030
or where's the,

438
00:14:27,109 --> 00:14:29,549
I don't even know what you use to make slime other than glue,

439
00:14:29,650 --> 00:14:30,059
so I,

440
00:14:30,070 --> 00:14:30,650
I'm out.

441
00:14:30,789 --> 00:14:33,729
But where's the whatever that they normally have access to?

442
00:14:34,109 --> 00:14:34,390
Oh,

443
00:14:34,469 --> 00:14:36,969
you're noticing that I don't have any more of that.

444
00:14:37,669 --> 00:14:38,280
Why?

445
00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:38,510
Where,

446
00:14:38,630 --> 00:14:38,729
where,

447
00:14:38,979 --> 00:14:39,559
where did it go?

448
00:14:39,669 --> 00:14:39,830
Oh,

449
00:14:39,909 --> 00:14:40,030
well,

450
00:14:40,070 --> 00:14:41,130
it got used up.

451
00:14:42,469 --> 00:14:42,919
OK,

452
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,859
so now you're telling a truthful answer

453
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,940
as to why there isn't any more in there.

454
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:48,799
And

455
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:50,020
when a child

456
00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:53,739
does not have access to something that they've always had access to,

457
00:14:54,309 --> 00:14:57,109
we do this in very infrequent scenarios,

458
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:57,599
by the way,

459
00:14:57,669 --> 00:15:00,179
we're trying to be as consistent and predictable as possible.

460
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,059
But for example,

461
00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:01,799
if we decide,

462
00:15:01,869 --> 00:15:02,239
you know what,

463
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,340
I have to remove that from the playroom

464
00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:05,799
for safety,

465
00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:06,719
for sanity,

466
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:07,549
for

467
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:08,520
acceptance,

468
00:15:08,599 --> 00:15:09,179
whatever,

469
00:15:09,580 --> 00:15:09,590
I,

470
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:11,200
I'm no longer going to have that in there.

471
00:15:11,789 --> 00:15:14,760
It actually allows a child to sort through

472
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,989
therapeutically necessary stuff.

473
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:17,719
Because

474
00:15:18,109 --> 00:15:19,390
has that become a crutch?

475
00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:21,419
Has that become the easy choice?

476
00:15:21,669 --> 00:15:25,500
Is that something that they depend on and they have very low frustration tolerance?

477
00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:27,059
Can they not handle change?

478
00:15:27,309 --> 00:15:28,500
Do they feel disappointed?

479
00:15:28,549 --> 00:15:29,690
Do they feel betrayed?

480
00:15:29,909 --> 00:15:32,609
All of those things that are going to come up possibly

481
00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:34,590
when there's no longer slime materials,

482
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,309
they're all therapeutically necessary and valuable things to address.

483
00:15:38,950 --> 00:15:41,130
So we never have to be concerned

484
00:15:41,390 --> 00:15:41,869
that

485
00:15:42,070 --> 00:15:45,190
we're somehow doing some detrimental thing when we remove

486
00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:47,190
something if it's necessary to be taken out.

487
00:15:47,729 --> 00:15:49,710
And we give truthful answers.

488
00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:50,289
Oh,

489
00:15:50,369 --> 00:15:50,530
well,

490
00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:52,989
lots of kids use slime and I ran out of stuff.

491
00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:54,369
Well,

492
00:15:54,409 --> 00:15:55,429
you gonna buy more?

493
00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:55,849
Oh,

494
00:15:55,969 --> 00:15:58,510
you really hope that I buy some more slime stuff.

495
00:15:59,609 --> 00:16:00,549
And then

496
00:16:00,849 --> 00:16:02,489
they sort through what they need to sort through.

497
00:16:02,690 --> 00:16:02,950
So,

498
00:16:03,369 --> 00:16:04,250
I hope that is helpful,

499
00:16:04,359 --> 00:16:04,609
Lana.

500
00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:05,599
Thank you for the questions.

501
00:16:05,650 --> 00:16:06,239
I appreciate it.

502
00:16:06,289 --> 00:16:07,250
If y'all want to reach out,

503
00:16:07,330 --> 00:16:08,250
I would love to hear from you,

504
00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:10,070
brenna@thekidcounselor.com

505
00:16:10,489 --> 00:16:13,890
or you can always call 813-812-5525

506
00:16:14,010 --> 00:16:16,479
and you can leave me a message and then I can answer your question that way.

507
00:16:16,690 --> 00:16:17,289
I love y'all.

508
00:16:17,369 --> 00:16:18,130
We'll talk again soon.

509
00:16:18,289 --> 00:16:18,570
Bye.

510
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,440
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

511
00:16:23,659 --> 00:16:25,570
For more episodes and resources,

512
00:16:25,770 --> 00:16:30,530
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.