Episode 96 - The History of Cannibalism: Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>And welcome back to a, another episode of the lunatic radio hour podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Abby Brer.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm here as always with Alan Kuan.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, Mr.

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<v Speaker 1>Cannibalism himself, what?

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<v Speaker 1>And today we have part two of cannibalism where we're going to focus on more modern history.

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<v Speaker 1>And I, and I'll say a li despite early cannibalism being very rock and roll these, I think incidents are gonna hit a little closer to home.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Cause they're less socially accepted than some of the things we talked about last week where, which were also not socially accepted.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, some of them were some of them weren't like Mumia was ritual.

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<v Speaker 1>Cannibalism was depending on who you at, it's still weird.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't disagree, but we're looking at it through the lens of our society.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Are<laugh> part one came out last week.

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<v Speaker 1>The history of cannibalism, we talk about neolithic cannibalism, the very, very early versions of humans, evidence that we found in caves of markings on and bones and things that lead us to believe cannibalism took place.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that neolithic or paleolithic?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>Paleolithic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>I obviously don't even know what these terms mean.

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<v Speaker 1>No paleolithic.

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<v Speaker 1>We just made a joke that they're opposites.

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>I know paleolithic is right.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what neolithic, I think it's just a later era.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>But paleolithic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Then we talked a lot about ancient societies, Egypt, Rome, both in famine.

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<v Speaker 1>And in ritual, we talk about China.

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<v Speaker 1>We talk about the foray people of Papa, new Guinea and kuru, which is a brain disease.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course, we talk a lot about Mumia, which is a very, was a very broad and open form of care.

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<v Speaker 1>Animalism that happened in Europe for over a century where people would use powdered blood or powdered skull or different blood jam, thank you to treat different ailments.

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<v Speaker 1>And so again, cannibalism is vast and sprawling as a lot of topics that we've come to cover and a good time for all and a good time for some, not all, just a reminder.

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<v Speaker 1>I list out all of the sources that we use in the first part of cannibalism.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm not gonna reiterate it every time we talk about it, but if you're interested in the sources, you can go back and check that out.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course, if you have any questions about sources or articles you wanna read up on, you can always reach out to us.

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<v Speaker 1>And I will share those with you gladly.

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<v Speaker 1>I do wanna say before this first thing that I'm gonna talk about, I actually had not included this in the outline.

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<v Speaker 1>I hadn't known about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And then last night, you and I decided to watch a movie that we did.

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<v Speaker 1>We did

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<v Speaker 2>Watch a movie.

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<v Speaker 2>We watched

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<v Speaker 1>A movie because, and it was kind of purposefully chosen.

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<v Speaker 1>A little mermaid<laugh> was not the little mermaid.

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<v Speaker 1>It was pur purposefully chosen because it wasn't hard.

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<v Speaker 1>We wanted a little bit of a break from that, right?

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<v Speaker 1>We wanted to do something a little different.

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<v Speaker 1>We wanted to watch something that wasn't for research, essentially joke was on us because survival cannibalism took place in this film that was based on true events, ah, spoilers.

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<v Speaker 1>So you knew that I had to wake up early this morning and add it to the outline.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna kick things off in mid modern history with the story of the Essex

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<v Speaker 2>Essex county, New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 1><laugh> the Essex whaling ship in 1820, the Essex, a whaling ship departed from Nantucket under the command of captain George Pollard Jr.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, whaling, our favorite topic.

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<v Speaker 2><laugh>

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<v Speaker 1>The ship set out to fill her hu with barrels of oil oil, but she was attacked by a sperm whale.

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<v Speaker 1>And sunk was very odd behavior for a sperm whale or for any whale.

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<v Speaker 2>And for those being like, wait a minute, this sounds familiar.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a reason.

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<v Speaker 2>And either a, you watched the blockbuster smash hit in the heart of the C from 2000 thousand 15, starring, uh, Chris Hemsworth, SI Murphy.

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<v Speaker 2>And who is the Tom Holland?

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Holland.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but who's the, the, I mean, yes he's but who's the, the cap who played the captain.

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<v Speaker 2>I Ben something.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, Ben something.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyways, he's great.

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<v Speaker 2>But also this was, this incident was the spur for the novel movie, Moby Dick.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>So quoting from Owen chase, who was the first mate, this is a direct quote, a firsthand source.

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<v Speaker 1>If you will.

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<v Speaker 1>I turned around and saw him about 100 rods directly ahead of us coming down with twice his ordinary speed of around 24 knots.

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<v Speaker 1>And it appeared with tenfold fury vengeance in his aspect, the surf flew in all directions about him with the continual violent thrashing of his tail, his head about half out of the water.

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<v Speaker 1>And in that way, he came upon us and again, struck the ship and

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<v Speaker 2>Got a pretty malicious whale.

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<v Speaker 2>Well,

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<v Speaker 1>They had been trying to wail him for a long time

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<v Speaker 2>And he says, you ain't gonna whale me.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know?

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<v Speaker 1>And I learned this last night, but blue whales are the largest mammals to have ever lived on the, to the largest animals to have ever lived on the earth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>They're freaking

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<v Speaker 2>Huge for like, they were bigger than any dinosaur that ever lived.

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<v Speaker 1>They're like a hundred.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it was a hundred feet long.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's insane.

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<v Speaker 1>If you look at pictures of them, it's really mind blowing,

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<v Speaker 2>Although they are not the largest organism.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the largest organism a tree.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>They're well, sequoias are bigger.

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<v Speaker 2>So yes, trees that are, are, are larger, but even like the Sequoia trees, which are absolutely gargantuan.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm<affirmative> you ever been, you ever been to Yosemite?

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, super cool.

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<v Speaker 2>These redwoods are just like monstrously large.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you've seen pictures.

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<v Speaker 2>I have, but they're not even the biggest thing on the planet and this, and this is where you have to start getting nitty

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<v Speaker 1>Gritty for nothing, if not nitty gritty.

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<v Speaker 1>So

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<v Speaker 2>The LAR I, I, I had to look up the ESP the official name of this because it it's a little confusing.

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<v Speaker 2>And again, you have to get into the semantics really sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Because the name is humongous fungus<laugh> Uhhuh.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, but it's actually a fungi cluster of the honey mushroom.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>And guess how big it is

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<v Speaker 1>Bigger than a white whale,

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<v Speaker 2>3.5 square miles.

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<v Speaker 1>What, where's this?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, where is it?

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good question.

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<v Speaker 2>It is in ma mal Huber, M a L H E.

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<v Speaker 2>You are national forest, which is in Oregon, New York.

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<v Speaker 2><laugh>, which is,<laugh> what, which is in Oregon USA,

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<v Speaker 1>Oregon USA.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Fascinating.

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<v Speaker 2>It's classified as one living organism.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm<affirmative> because it's like a, it's a colony.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, in that's where you have to get into semantics of like, we are a cluster of living cells and that's just how it works, but you can break off a piece of that.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's gonna, it's a bunch of different mushrooms, but they're all connected.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>But obviously that's quite

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<v Speaker 1>Sizable.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That's huge.

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<v Speaker 1>3.1 miles, 3.5.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Longer than a five.

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<v Speaker 1>Longer than a 5k.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Square

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<v Speaker 2>Miles though.

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<v Speaker 1>All right.

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<v Speaker 1>Still.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is the equivalent of 1,350 soccer fields.

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<v Speaker 1>Holy.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that is bigger than a blue whale.

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<v Speaker 2>It's ages calculated to be around 2,400 years old, but parts of it might be as old as 8,650 years old.

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<v Speaker 1>We gotta go visit.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds so cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Mm-hmm<affirmative> okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So back to the Essex, the crew of the Essex right of the whaling ship was forced into the small whale boats to survive because the sperm whale actually sunk the Essex.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how powerful this attack was.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It happened about 2000 miles west of south America.

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<v Speaker 1>So they were literally in the middle of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're forced onto these smaller whale boats

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<v Speaker 2>And good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, well, I was gonna say good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a whaling ship because that meant they had all these extra boats, but if it wasn't a whaling ship, it probably wouldn't have been attacked by a whale.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1><laugh> so the men were stranded at sea and these tiny kind of like dingy boats for many months, whaling ships,

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<v Speaker 2>Whaling boats,

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<v Speaker 1>Whaling boats.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not ships.

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<v Speaker 1>They're small.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep.

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<v Speaker 1>They'd probably fit like 10 they're like rowboat, like large rowboats.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, they're wailing boats.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just trying to paint a picture of people who don't know what a whaling boat is off the top of their head.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1><laugh>

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I feel like everyone has read Moby Dick multiple times.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So the men were stranded at sea for many months and eventually they wash a shore of a small island, but they realized for multiple reason that this isn't gonna work.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, that it's not super filled with food or wildlife for them to hunt.

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<v Speaker 1>There's proof that cannibalism took place here before, maybe by other indigenous cultures that lived on the island.

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<v Speaker 1>And they also think that they're gonna get stuck here without like that.

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<v Speaker 1>No boats are ever gonna end up like passing by.

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<v Speaker 1>And so they will never organically be run rescued.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I

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<v Speaker 2>Mean, my only experience with this is either through the novel or through the movie, we saw you.

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<v Speaker 2>You're the one that did the, the research on this.

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<v Speaker 2>And I

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<v Speaker 1>Will say the movie is very, very, very historically accurate,

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<v Speaker 2>Which is amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>In the movie they're drifting after the whale sinks their ship, you know, they're forced into whaling boats.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>And they drift for like about a month, maybe even more.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Two months, maybe month and a half 40 days, we'll say, and then they find this little island on this island, the proof that they, that this island is not a sanctuary that they find bodies of people that had clearly died waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>Rescue.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't know if that's historically accurate in the same way, but it did say online that they found proof of cannibalism or that they thought maybe they were at risk of, of that happening.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotcha.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if they ran into like indigenous people who lived on this island or if they just found like other people who, and kind of shipwrecked and had maybe resorted to that, but that was brought up as like, they kind of were freaked out by that.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel

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<v Speaker 2>Like if they had found indigenous people, then that would mean that the island is sustainable.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it could have been sustainable if you knew how to fish or other things.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>But they didn't, but maybe not depending on and where they were like, they're not used to living on a tropical island in the, you know, south Pacific.

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<v Speaker 1>Like that's not,

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<v Speaker 2>I, I mean, I don't know, I'm I definitely have a romanticized version of these people, but they were survivors.

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<v Speaker 2>If they li these were the most Hardy semen that you can imagine, cuz you know, they'd be on a boat for three years, you know, they definitely had to know how to like fish and survive and all sorts

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<v Speaker 1>Of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think regardless of all of that, sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I told like, take your point.

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<v Speaker 1>They also wanted to get home to their families.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So they knew that like they could maybe stay on this island, even though it did seem bleak.

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<v Speaker 1>But the point was that they, they didn't wanna just live.

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<v Speaker 1>They wanted to return home.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no ch chance of whatever they found.

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<v Speaker 2>It was obvious that this was not a place that from which they were going to be rescued by a third party.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of the men decide to set back out into these boats and attempt to make it back home.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>They, they pack up what little supplies they could gather from their, their

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<v Speaker 1>Island sanctuary.

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<v Speaker 1>And they, they head back out to sea and essentially they stay stranded in these boats for a very long period of time.

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<v Speaker 1>After this, on February 8th, one of the crew, Isaac Cole died and the crew, the other, the surviving member burst eight parts of his body in order to survive.

00:12:53.820 --> 00:13:01.990
<v Speaker 1>They started with his organs, but they struggled stomaching his flesh, which they described as like stringy or chewy or something like that.

00:13:01.990 --> 00:13:03.629
<v Speaker 1>Like they just couldn't, it was easier.

00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:13.779
<v Speaker 1>We actually had this thought because when we were watching the movie last night, mm-hmm<affirmative>, it came up that they ate his heart first and Alan and I both kind of looked to each other and we were like, why wouldn't they start with the meat?

00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:19.059
<v Speaker 1>That that's a weird choice, but I, I guess that was actually based on what happened.

00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:24.220
<v Speaker 1>And that was that they, for some reason, the, the flesh was mentally too hard for them.

00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:26.860
<v Speaker 1>And so they resorted, especially cuz they're in boats, right.

00:13:26.860 --> 00:13:27.700
<v Speaker 1>They're not cooking it.

00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:28.259
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:29.179
<v Speaker 1>Um, so it was raw.

00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:40.009
<v Speaker 1>So the organs for whatever reason were easier for them mentally to eat as additional crew members passed away, this process was repeated at one point on the captain's whale boat.

00:13:40.010 --> 00:13:44.009
<v Speaker 1>So again, there's two whale boats at this point, the men ran out of food.

00:13:44.269 --> 00:13:58.639
<v Speaker 1>And so they drew lots to determine who would be sacrificed for food and the captain's cousin Owen coffin drew the short lot and was, and the men eventually make it back they're they make it to, I think Chile and then our, they get back on a boat.

00:13:58.700 --> 00:14:02.720
<v Speaker 1>The voyage takes three months to make it back to Nauck and, but they return home like years later.

00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:07.720
<v Speaker 1>And as a said, this incident inspired Herman Melville to write Moby Dick.

00:14:08.379 --> 00:14:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>However, he, he definitely was selective,

00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:14.309
<v Speaker 1>No cannibalism in Moby Dick.

00:14:14.570 --> 00:14:14.789
<v Speaker 2>No.

00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:22.509
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Moby Dick is all about hunting whales, quick spoiler alert for Moby Dick.

00:14:23.350 --> 00:14:43.419
<v Speaker 2>I, I, I hate putting spoilers out there, but you know, I'm sure you've all read the book at this point, you know, Moby Dick does eventually sink the P quad and there's just like a little wrap up about drifting at sea and then getting rescued and, or getting rescued or getting back to shore.

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:45.700
<v Speaker 2>You're like they just kind of glance over that.

00:14:46.049 --> 00:14:46.340
<v Speaker 2>Well,

00:14:46.340 --> 00:14:53.259
<v Speaker 1>You know, what's interesting about that and I don't know how based on reality of this is in the film that we watched last night in the heart of the sea.

00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:53.580
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:59.769
<v Speaker 1>The actor who's playing or the character of Herman Melville is the whole like kind of like, what's

00:14:59.769 --> 00:15:00.049
<v Speaker 2>It called?

00:15:00.230 --> 00:15:02.529
<v Speaker 2>You said bookends, but it was, it was a narrative.

00:15:02.549 --> 00:15:04.529
<v Speaker 2>It was a narrative device pop

00:15:04.850 --> 00:15:04.850
<v Speaker 1>Device.

00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:05.009
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:15:05.269 --> 00:15:12.370
<v Speaker 1>The story of the Essex syncing and the film is book ended by Herman Melville interviewing one of the people.

00:15:12.929 --> 00:15:26.279
<v Speaker 1>And, and so there's like some addition know, you know, character development you get with this person because of that, they talk about in the movie that this, the character who was on the boat and was a young kid and committed, you know, and eight his crew members to survive.

00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:31.799
<v Speaker 1>He was so filled with shame and guilt that he had never told anybody that it had never come out.

00:15:31.801 --> 00:15:36.120
<v Speaker 1>And so Herman Melville, again, this is probably fictionalized, but it was a plot in the movie.

00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Mm-hmm,<affirmative> the plot point that Herman Melville said, like, I won't put that in.

00:15:40.100 --> 00:15:44.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna put everything in like, thank you for telling me, but I'm not gonna like ruin your life because of this.

00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:45.159
<v Speaker 1>I was

00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.559
<v Speaker 2>Honestly really surprised by the direction that the film went.

00:15:49.350 --> 00:15:49.350
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

00:15:49.830 --> 00:16:06.509
<v Speaker 2>In, so in, in Moby Dick, the meat of the story is the meat, the one hunt that they're, they tracked out, they, they spot, you know, Moby Dick and the whale, the whale, and then, you know, go after him.

00:16:06.510 --> 00:16:06.830
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:08.470
<v Speaker 2>Well actually, no, they're just out wailing.

00:16:08.471 --> 00:16:12.299
<v Speaker 2>And then they see'em and, and then he just becomes obsessed, but he is only upset.

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:23.500
<v Speaker 2>So I say he being captain Ahab mm-hmm<affirmative> on a previous expedition, Moby Dick had gravely injured, uh, captain Ahab.

00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:25.139
<v Speaker 2>I think he, he took his leg.

00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:42.970
<v Speaker 2>So I thought that the film was gonna be about this guy that goes out encounters a white whale, uh, as the Essex did, it sinks their boat and then act two is gonna be them going back out, hunting the whale as, as what happens in Moby Dick.

00:16:43.590 --> 00:16:45.289
<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't happen at all.

00:16:45.291 --> 00:16:50.759
<v Speaker 2>They just say, this whale, uh, we just gotta get, we just, we're just we, how to survive.

00:16:50.760 --> 00:16:53.879
<v Speaker 2>And then the whole second half of the movie is about starving in boats.

00:16:53.909 --> 00:16:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's

00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Actually a point too, where the main character is not the captain.

00:16:57.490 --> 00:17:06.799
<v Speaker 1>Who's this, uh, first mate, he sees the whale and has the opportunity to harpoon him when they're on the small whale boat, stranded, but decides not to.

00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:15.549
<v Speaker 1>And it's sort of like this peaceful moment where they, you know, and I, this is obvious really fictionalized where the whale walks away, the, the first mate walk away.

00:17:15.550 --> 00:17:25.950
<v Speaker 1>Like they both agreed that it's over sort of obviously like Herman Melville took a lot of liberties and made it a really good story, you know, based on real events, I took

00:17:25.950 --> 00:17:28.190
<v Speaker 2>That scene to be, yeah.

00:17:28.390 --> 00:17:31.029
<v Speaker 2>Cause you have Chris Hemsworth with his fricking Trident.

00:17:31.250 --> 00:17:31.539
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:17:31.779 --> 00:17:37.539
<v Speaker 2>And the whale comes right up to him and stares, you know, like his, the eye comes right outta the water and they're just like staring at each other.

00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:42.099
<v Speaker 2>And I interpreted that as the whale is taunting him being like, do it.

00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:44.259
<v Speaker 2>I, I, I dare you, but he

00:17:44.259 --> 00:17:44.579
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't.

00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:50.539
<v Speaker 1>And so they continue to look at each other and then I think sort of like the whale walks away, he could very easily have killed them.

00:17:50.569 --> 00:17:50.859
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:17:50.861 --> 00:17:51.619
<v Speaker 1>I on those boats and he

00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:54.410
<v Speaker 2>Didn't, I think that's the whale letting him like that.

00:17:54.411 --> 00:17:55.930
<v Speaker 2>That was the official surrender.

00:17:56.329 --> 00:17:56.329
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:17:56.390 --> 00:17:57.049
<v Speaker 2>By the whalers.

00:17:57.050 --> 00:17:57.369
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:17:57.730 --> 00:17:59.049
<v Speaker 2>Be like, we don't, we, we get it.

00:17:59.250 --> 00:18:00.089
<v Speaker 2>We, we cannot kill you.

00:18:00.090 --> 00:18:00.369
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:01.650
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly.

00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:02.329
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:18:03.069 --> 00:18:03.730
<v Speaker 1>So, yeah.

00:18:03.750 --> 00:18:12.880
<v Speaker 1>So that was a little, uh, little, uh, bit that we added this morning based off that very, uh, impromptu exposure that we had to this store last night,

00:18:12.950 --> 00:18:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Also.

00:18:13.609 --> 00:18:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Great movie overall.

00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:15.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:18:15.320 --> 00:18:17.279
<v Speaker 2>Great movie got really bad reviews.

00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Star Stu cast, huge

00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Star Stu cast, lots of stormy seas.

00:18:21.990 --> 00:18:23.519
<v Speaker 2>It's like half the Avengers are in the movie.

00:18:23.859 --> 00:18:26.559
<v Speaker 1>Alan's a huge fan of silly Murphy, which we all are.

00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Ah, what a guy, lots of reasons to watch it.

00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Now we're gonna pivot to what is arguably one of the most famous cases of modern survival cannibalism.

00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:38.319
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what I'm gonna say?

00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:39.319
<v Speaker 1>I should say too.

00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:41.359
<v Speaker 1>We're we're kicking things off here with survival cannibalism.

00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:42.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I said that you did not.

00:18:43.049 --> 00:18:46.119
<v Speaker 1>We're in a, we're in a little, um, what's it called in school?

00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:50.549
<v Speaker 1>When have like a few weeks that you focus on one topic, breakout session.

00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:52.269
<v Speaker 1>No unit.

00:18:52.660 --> 00:18:52.950
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:18:52.951 --> 00:18:56.390
<v Speaker 1>We're doing a unit right now on survival cannibalism as you do.

00:18:56.950 --> 00:18:56.950
<v Speaker 1><laugh>

00:18:57.809 --> 00:18:58.470
<v Speaker 2>So what was the

00:18:58.549 --> 00:18:58.670
<v Speaker 1>Question?

00:18:59.259 --> 00:19:02.670
<v Speaker 1>What do you think is the most famous, modern case of survival cannibalism?

00:19:03.589 --> 00:19:07.109
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this is modern, but I'd say the Donner.

00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.019
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that is right.

00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:14.140
<v Speaker 1>When I say modern, I mean, you know, in the last few hundred years, not Neo, not paleolithic.

00:19:14.141 --> 00:19:14.619
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:21.220
<v Speaker 1><laugh> there are many resources that exist and cover this incident in depth.

00:19:21.221 --> 00:19:21.500
<v Speaker 1>Right?

00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.819
<v Speaker 1>As always, we're just kind of talking about it as part of our larger thesis on cannibalism.

00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.130
<v Speaker 1>But if you wanna, we dive into the details.

00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:34.849
<v Speaker 1>There are so many podcasts and documentaries and other things you can consume to get the full picture.

00:19:35.470 --> 00:19:44.490
<v Speaker 1>The Donner party was a group of American pioneers that set out for California, from Missouri in the mid 18 hundreds think Oregon trail, right?

00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:49.480
<v Speaker 1>These groups wanted to migrate west for both religious freedoms.

00:19:49.549 --> 00:19:54.599
<v Speaker 1>They were Catholic and felt persecuted and also for opportunities for better income, right?

00:19:54.601 --> 00:19:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Like the gold rush, hope of a better life.

00:19:57.349 --> 00:20:00.799
<v Speaker 1>Most caravans could travel 15 miles a day.

00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:05.799
<v Speaker 1>And at that pace, the journey still took between four and six months to complete.

00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:19.190
<v Speaker 1>It was a 2,500 mile journey on May 12th, 1846, a group of over 500 wagons departed from independence, Missouri, the wagons trailed behind a train.

00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:23.029
<v Speaker 1>This is the first strange thing about this expedition.

00:20:23.549 --> 00:20:23.990
<v Speaker 1>May they, they

00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:25.789
<v Speaker 2>Behind a train like a, a like a

00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:26.430
<v Speaker 1>Railroad train.

00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:26.750
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:20:26.910 --> 00:20:27.869
<v Speaker 1>I think that's how they started.

00:20:28.289 --> 00:20:28.509
<v Speaker 1>Huh?

00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:32.019
<v Speaker 1>Like they had kind of like access, I guess, to other supplies or whatever.

00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:32.700
<v Speaker 1>How on earth would

00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:33.700
<v Speaker 2>It keep up with a train?

00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:35.500
<v Speaker 1>Well, train probably went slowly.

00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:36.859
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

00:20:36.861 --> 00:20:39.619
<v Speaker 1>Or maybe it stopped every night and they caught up, I don't know, huh?

00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:46.700
<v Speaker 1>Travelers usually departed sometime in April in order to ensure that they would have safe weather to pass through to the west.

00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:49.539
<v Speaker 1>But for some reason, these wagons left in mid.

00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:54.130
<v Speaker 1>So they were already like a month and a half a month to a month and a half behind schedule.

00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:54.650
<v Speaker 1>Got it.

00:20:55.160 --> 00:21:02.690
<v Speaker 1>Nine of these wagons, about 32 people were members of the Donner and Reed families, the group made up of, and this.

00:21:02.691 --> 00:21:07.170
<v Speaker 1>So this specific subgroup, the Donner and Reed parties, um, were made up of 81 people.

00:21:08.069 --> 00:21:15.480
<v Speaker 1>And they spent most of the winter from, from 1846 to 47, stuck in the Sierra Nevada mountains due to snow conditions.

00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:22.880
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people particularly blame this on a shortcut that they decided to take, which turned out to be like a complete show.

00:21:23.549 --> 00:21:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Just like in the Hills, have eyes.

00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:26.880
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.359
<v Speaker 1>There you go.

00:21:27.361 --> 00:21:29.759
<v Speaker 1>Another, uh, modern cannibalism story.

00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:35.279
<v Speaker 1>Lansford Hastings was like a developer out west, I guess.

00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:40.519
<v Speaker 1>And he was promoting this new shortcut, which he called the Hastings cutoff across the salt lake desert.

00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:46.670
<v Speaker 1>And unfortunately, instead of saving them time, the added a month to their travels,

00:21:47.210 --> 00:21:56.509
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine just like, if you were to pluck someone outta history and just like bring'em to modern society mm-hmm<affirmative> and be like, yeah.

00:21:56.510 --> 00:22:01.990
<v Speaker 2>Getting, getting out west, that's like a six hour flight it's gonna take it's so long.

00:22:02.430 --> 00:22:12.900
<v Speaker 1><laugh> I know really it's crazy in like, in the past few hundred years, humans have been around for millions of years and in the past few hundred, like how much things have changed, I

00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:15.259
<v Speaker 2>Guess the, yeah.

00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:17.220
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the trains clearly existed.

00:22:18.410 --> 00:22:24.180
<v Speaker 2>When did a, when did the trans-Atlantic railroad go in that like made this unnecessary?

00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:25.619
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I get a year.

00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:26.529
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:22:26.530 --> 00:22:35.849
<v Speaker 2>So we just Googled, like it's not for another 20 years that there's gonna be a railroad that, uh, connects the east and the west mm-hmm<affirmative> so everyone, these are, these people are

00:22:35.849 --> 00:22:36.089
<v Speaker 1>Crazy.

00:22:36.930 --> 00:22:38.490
<v Speaker 1><laugh> well, they weren't, they're crazy.

00:22:38.490 --> 00:22:40.210
<v Speaker 1>That's just what they have available to them.

00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:42.049
<v Speaker 2>Crazy desperate.

00:22:42.690 --> 00:22:43.049
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Just, I think they're also being lured by tales of the frontier and

00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Of a better life.

00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:22:51.309 --> 00:22:58.599
<v Speaker 1>It's upsetting for me to learn that most of the people who traveled with a Donner party were kids more than half were under the age of 18.

00:22:59.220 --> 00:23:03.240
<v Speaker 1>So there's a few different points in them being stranded.

00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Again, we're going through this at a very high level.

00:23:05.309 --> 00:23:05.599
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

00:23:05.779 --> 00:23:07.230
<v Speaker 1>But there's a few different aren't points.

00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:07.589
<v Speaker 1>What do

00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:08.269
<v Speaker 2>You mean by high level?

00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:13.029
<v Speaker 1>Like we're not going through this detail, which would, we could spend three episodes talking about it.

00:23:13.349 --> 00:23:15.150
<v Speaker 1>We're we're really glancing over the details here.

00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:15.509
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:23:15.970 --> 00:23:23.150
<v Speaker 1>But while they're stranded, there's a few different like cases and incidents of, of survival cannibalism that happened.

00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:36.099
<v Speaker 1>One of them is that one of the members of the Donner party, William F who had a gun shot, two native Americans who had previously come by and tried to help the party, but he ended up killing and eating them.

00:23:36.769 --> 00:23:37.059
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:23:37.060 --> 00:23:39.940
<v Speaker 2>So these people are desperate at this point.

00:23:40.329 --> 00:23:40.619
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.940
<v Speaker 2>And the two native Americans show up, just help out these strangers in their land.

00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:47.660
<v Speaker 2>And I guess they'd helped them out previously.

00:23:48.769 --> 00:23:49.410
<v Speaker 1>No, they had, yeah.

00:23:49.411 --> 00:23:50.890
<v Speaker 1>They were like around, I think.

00:23:50.910 --> 00:23:52.970
<v Speaker 1>And you know, they kind of befriended them or something.

00:23:52.971 --> 00:23:55.049
<v Speaker 1>Again, this is like high level, right.

00:23:55.050 --> 00:23:57.490
<v Speaker 1>We're just, they were just checking in, but they ended up kind of turning on them.

00:23:57.490 --> 00:24:02.089
<v Speaker 1>This guy ended up turning on them and, and using them to survive, which is just so terrible

00:24:02.490 --> 00:24:03.089
<v Speaker 2>When go psychosis

00:24:04.009 --> 00:24:12.960
<v Speaker 1><laugh> some of the travelers did die from starvation, but many of them were able to survive off of hunting, eating leather, or other goods that they had with them.

00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:19.839
<v Speaker 1>And of course, some but not all of the travelers ate the frozen dead bodies of their travel companions.

00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:25.200
<v Speaker 1>So when you talk about the Donna party, we're not just talking about the consumption of these native Americans.

00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:33.240
<v Speaker 1>We're also talking about the consumption of dead people who were part of the party that had died and kind of been, become frozen in the earth.

00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know that they ate native Americans.

00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:36.079
<v Speaker 1>I didn't either.

00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:44.710
<v Speaker 1>That was a new detail, which of course is also like exactly to the point where, you know, they're not villainizing them, which they should, this guy should be villainized for that.

00:24:44.711 --> 00:24:48.869
<v Speaker 1>Like that's different than eating someone who died organically, that's murdering and killing somebody.

00:24:48.871 --> 00:24:50.549
<v Speaker 1>That's a different thing, right?

00:24:50.829 --> 00:24:53.589
<v Speaker 2>Somebody shows up with a fruit basket and you just shoot'em and eat'em

00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:53.869
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:24:53.980 --> 00:24:58.190
<v Speaker 1>Like it's a lot different than killing or than eating somebody that has already died.

00:24:58.769 --> 00:25:05.259
<v Speaker 2>Hey, listen, I know you, uh, live out here and have been surviving on this land for Jim iterations, but bam, I've

00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:07.180
<v Speaker 1>Been here for 10 minutes and I can't handle it.

00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:07.859
<v Speaker 1>I'm so hungry.

00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:17.180
<v Speaker 1><laugh> all in all the daughter party spent five months trapped in the mountains, but they were located by searchers after two and a half months.

00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:25.730
<v Speaker 1>The problem was that the rescuers and their animals couldn't safely navigate to the location of where, like these were wagons were kind of like up on the mountain pass.

00:25:25.990 --> 00:25:26.410
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

00:25:26.750 --> 00:25:31.890
<v Speaker 1>81 people departed Missouri as part of the Don and Reed parties, 45 survived.

00:25:32.230 --> 00:25:35.089
<v Speaker 2>I'm basically picturing, you know, the scene in Lord of the rings.

00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:35.650
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:25:35.651 --> 00:25:41.769
<v Speaker 2>Where they're like going through the, the, the mountains and Soman is like throwing all the, the snow with them.

00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:42.210
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:25:42.890 --> 00:25:44.799
<v Speaker 2>It just like, you know, the, the passes collapse.

00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:46.200
<v Speaker 2>There's no way to get.

00:25:46.259 --> 00:25:47.799
<v Speaker 2>And then the rescuers get there.

00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:51.279
<v Speaker 2>They got all these wagons literally on top of the mountain, like, how the did they get up there?

00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:53.519
<v Speaker 2><laugh> go check back in a couple months.

00:25:53.630 --> 00:25:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:25:54.220 --> 00:26:00.960
<v Speaker 1>So after their rescue, the story swept, the nation newspapers printed, fairly accusatory articles.

00:26:00.961 --> 00:26:05.349
<v Speaker 1>Like people were horrified by the cannibalism that had happened to the mountains.

00:26:05.589 --> 00:26:05.750
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

00:26:06.849 --> 00:26:12.750
<v Speaker 1>And it didn't help that most of the survivors had differing memories or stories at least about what had actually happened.

00:26:13.420 --> 00:26:13.710
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:26:13.711 --> 00:26:16.670
<v Speaker 2>They're like, ah, that the arm barbecue was so good.

00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:18.670
<v Speaker 2>And they're like, no, it was the leg cookout.

00:26:18.671 --> 00:26:19.829
<v Speaker 2>That was the best<laugh>.

00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:35.740
<v Speaker 1>And just to give you like a sense of how powerful this like news cycle was migration to the west, actually simmered for a period of time after the Donner party, because people were so freaked out by, by the way, it was represented in the media, which like rightfully so.

00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:35.940
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:26:36.380 --> 00:26:37.539
<v Speaker 1>That's a terrible thing to endure.

00:26:37.589 --> 00:26:37.940
<v Speaker 1>Right?

00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:38.259
<v Speaker 1>If

00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:47.569
<v Speaker 2>You cannot guarantee that you are going to not have to eat your family, mm-hmm<affirmative> for like maybe some better job opportunities.

00:26:48.289 --> 00:26:49.529
<v Speaker 2>I think you should really reevaluate.

00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:55.490
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously that is said from a place of comfort, uh, comfortable privilege and employment, right?

00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:56.210
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:56.890
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:26:57.170 --> 00:26:59.849
<v Speaker 2>May, maybe things were really bad and this was their only option.

00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.809
<v Speaker 2>However, plenty of people made it across without eating their families.

00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:04.650
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:27:04.651 --> 00:27:09.079
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not, I'm not ever, um, judging survival, cannibalism.

00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:11.359
<v Speaker 1>If you are eating somebody who has already died.

00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:18.160
<v Speaker 1>I think the Donner party specifically with William Foster gets murky because he allegedly murdered people.

00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 1>But when we're talking about strictly survival, cannibalism, no judgment from me.

00:27:23.390 --> 00:27:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:27:23.869 --> 00:27:26.519
<v Speaker 2>It's like, I think things just get dicey.

00:27:27.390 --> 00:27:30.200
<v Speaker 2>It's you know, this is where you have to draw the line.

00:27:30.430 --> 00:27:32.319
<v Speaker 2>It's like, do people die?

00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:33.759
<v Speaker 2>And then you eat them to survive.

00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:34.759
<v Speaker 2>That's fine.

00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:35.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:42.869
<v Speaker 2>If you preemptively murder to make sure that you survive that's, that's, that's bad.

00:27:43.049 --> 00:27:43.869
<v Speaker 1>That's very bad.

00:27:43.890 --> 00:27:44.109
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:44.869
<v Speaker 1>But then again,

00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:53.589
<v Speaker 2>Think about from the story of the Essex where they drew lots, because some, they were out of food and they were gonna

00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:54.150
<v Speaker 1>That's consent.

00:27:54.250 --> 00:27:55.549
<v Speaker 1>That's still again different.

00:27:56.259 --> 00:27:56.549
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

00:27:57.269 --> 00:27:57.269
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

00:27:57.270 --> 00:27:57.750
<v Speaker 2>That's true.

00:27:58.140 --> 00:27:58.430
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:27:58.710 --> 00:28:00.829
<v Speaker 1>But obviously there's just so many nuances to it.

00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:01.619
<v Speaker 2>Consent.

00:28:01.621 --> 00:28:03.940
<v Speaker 2>That's that's that's the key, key

00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:04.380
<v Speaker 1>Detail.

00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:06.779
<v Speaker 1>That's always the key people consent.

00:28:07.569 --> 00:28:07.859
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:16.980
<v Speaker 1>Can you think of the second, most famous survival cannibalism event of modern ish history, more modern, definitely more modern history.

00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:18.180
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:19.579
<v Speaker 2>No.

00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:23.930
<v Speaker 1>You're way in air force flight 5 71.

00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:25.529
<v Speaker 1>I've never heard of.

00:28:25.530 --> 00:28:26.930
<v Speaker 1>You've never heard of the rugby team.

00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:27.529
<v Speaker 1>Nope.

00:28:27.589 --> 00:28:28.170
<v Speaker 1>The plane crash.

00:28:28.230 --> 00:28:28.609
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:28.930
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:29.410
<v Speaker 1>Have you?

00:28:29.589 --> 00:28:30.609
<v Speaker 1>Yes, definitely.

00:28:30.910 --> 00:28:31.130
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

00:28:31.609 --> 00:28:31.970
<v Speaker 1>I didn't

00:28:31.970 --> 00:28:33.130
<v Speaker 2>Picture you as a rugby fan.

00:28:33.690 --> 00:28:33.809
<v Speaker 2>I

00:28:33.809 --> 00:28:35.410
<v Speaker 1>Am a true crime fan.

00:28:36.250 --> 00:28:36.609
<v Speaker 1>Never heard of it.

00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:38.410
<v Speaker 2>This is not a true crime podcast.

00:28:38.589 --> 00:28:40.210
<v Speaker 1>That's why we're not covering this.

00:28:40.650 --> 00:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>I just wanna be very clear so that we stay in the right genres to get the right promotions.

00:28:46.009 --> 00:28:46.359
<v Speaker 2>We're

00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:48.000
<v Speaker 1>In the wrong genres, by the way.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.799
<v Speaker 1>Somehow I think apple or Spotify has us under comedy and I can't for the life of me.

00:28:52.800 --> 00:28:54.519
<v Speaker 1>Figure out why or how to change it.

00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:54.880
<v Speaker 1><laugh>

00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're pretty.

00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>We're not funny.

00:28:57.099 --> 00:28:57.319
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

00:28:57.320 --> 00:29:00.160
<v Speaker 1>This is our, our comedy podcast about cannibalism.

00:29:00.161 --> 00:29:15.630
<v Speaker 1>Welcome on October 13th, 1972 members of the old Christian club, amateur rugby team departed from Montevideo, Uruguay bound for Santiago Chile in a chartered air force plane.

00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:19.789
<v Speaker 1>There were 40 passengers in five crew members on board.

00:29:20.410 --> 00:29:23.029
<v Speaker 1>The flight needed to pass over the Andy's mountain.

00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:25.940
<v Speaker 1>And again, high level look at this incident, right.

00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:31.059
<v Speaker 1>It was actually recently covered more in depth on the podcast, my favorite murder.

00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:36.579
<v Speaker 1>And there's a film like a fiction film called a live from 1993 alive.

00:29:36.769 --> 00:29:37.059
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:38.900
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of people sort of reference it.

00:29:38.901 --> 00:29:43.579
<v Speaker 1>And I think it might be kind of like somewhat historically accurate if you're interested in,

00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:49.569
<v Speaker 2>But not as historically accurate as at the heart of the sea, in the heart of the sea, in the heart of the sea long

00:29:49.569 --> 00:29:53.730
<v Speaker 1>Story short, there's a certain point in the crossing of the Andes.

00:29:54.690 --> 00:30:02.809
<v Speaker 1>Um, because of the cloud cover where pilots have to call in and get permission to descend because they can't really see where they are.

00:30:02.910 --> 00:30:05.599
<v Speaker 1>And it's kind of like a confirming of the coordinates.

00:30:05.660 --> 00:30:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

00:30:05.881 --> 00:30:07.400
<v Speaker 1>You're clear of the mountain pass.

00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:30:08.109 --> 00:30:08.720
<v Speaker 1>What the hell?

00:30:08.779 --> 00:30:11.920
<v Speaker 1>And this is again in the seventies, this isn't now that's

00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Crazy.

00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:14.039
<v Speaker 2>You think you just, oh, there's mountains.

00:30:14.040 --> 00:30:14.720
<v Speaker 2>Let's fly over

00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Them.

00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:30:15.401 --> 00:30:19.039
<v Speaker 1>But they can't see they're in, they they're total cloud cover.

00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 1>They're in fog.

00:30:20.190 --> 00:30:22.279
<v Speaker 1>They cannot see they only have their coordinates.

00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:23.920
<v Speaker 2>I just, I don't know.

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I, I don't know anything about planes.

00:30:27.190 --> 00:30:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 1>So maybe, maybe you don't have to comment on it then<laugh> but I'm gonna comment

00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:31.799
<v Speaker 2>Anyways.

00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Um, I don't know, planes are pre fly pretty high, you know?

00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:50.869
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's actually, that's a point of this, which I didn't jot down the details of, but this, I think that like, what I think is that the mountain range was like 18,000 feet in elevation.

00:30:51.490 --> 00:30:55.750
<v Speaker 1>The plane went only went 24,000 feet or 26,000 feet.

00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:56.150
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:30:56.690 --> 00:31:01.619
<v Speaker 1>So, and they was so loaded down people in cargo that it was even lower than that.

00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:08.539
<v Speaker 1>And with the weather and everything that there was, it was like a slight window than they would've been usually comfortable with.

00:31:09.130 --> 00:31:09.420
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:31:09.421 --> 00:31:13.660
<v Speaker 2>So they, they are still flying over the mountains.

00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:14.579
<v Speaker 2>So they have to

00:31:14.579 --> 00:31:15.579
<v Speaker 1>Fly over the Andes,

00:31:15.940 --> 00:31:18.460
<v Speaker 2>But they're not like Bob and weave in between mountain passes.

00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:19.339
<v Speaker 2>No, they, I

00:31:19.339 --> 00:31:21.849
<v Speaker 1>Mean, they have a Pacific flight trajectory that they're taking.

00:31:22.250 --> 00:31:22.529
<v Speaker 1>I see.

00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:40.680
<v Speaker 1>And so they call in the air traffic controllers could not visually confirm the location of flight 5 71 due to the conditions the pilot was using certain beacons and instruments to estimate their location, a Sutent and descended with permission from air traffic controllers to too early.

00:31:41.309 --> 00:31:45.079
<v Speaker 1>Instead of being on the other side of the mountain range, they were still over the Andes.

00:31:45.819 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Got it.

00:31:46.299 --> 00:31:47.559
<v Speaker 2>So they do fly.

00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:48.640
<v Speaker 2>I see.

00:31:48.950 --> 00:32:00.200
<v Speaker 2>There's just something about the altitude or the, something about the geography that makes the cloud cover rise ridiculously high.

00:32:00.269 --> 00:32:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:01.230
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:32:01.569 --> 00:32:11.990
<v Speaker 2>So that means they're in full cloud cover and they just need to talk to, to not mission control, whoever it is, air traffic control, air traffic control to be like, Hey, am I clear of the mountains?

00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:13.269
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I understand.

00:32:13.410 --> 00:32:19.430
<v Speaker 1>And one of the pilots was like a very seasoned pro at this and the, but the co-pilot was very inexperienced.

00:32:19.609 --> 00:32:22.740
<v Speaker 1>And so there's some, like, that's something that gets

00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:23.299
<v Speaker 2>Brought up a lot.

00:32:23.349 --> 00:32:25.259
<v Speaker 2>Never let your intern fly the plane.

00:32:25.779 --> 00:32:28.619
<v Speaker 1><laugh> when the pilot realized what was happening.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:36.299
<v Speaker 1>He tried to steer the plane pretty much vertically, like straight up to gain as much elevation as possible survivors.

00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:40.299
<v Speaker 1>Describe it as the plane shooting vertically into the sky, which of course didn't work.

00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:42.569
<v Speaker 1>And it kind of comes crashing down.

00:32:43.029 --> 00:32:46.289
<v Speaker 1>The plane hits the Andes two or three times what?

00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:48.289
<v Speaker 1>Like it crashes into the mountain range.

00:32:48.710 --> 00:32:49.210
<v Speaker 2>Oh, gotcha.

00:32:49.529 --> 00:32:51.529
<v Speaker 2>It's like, oh, we crashed or again, take off again.

00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:52.210
<v Speaker 2>No.

00:32:52.211 --> 00:32:52.569
<v Speaker 2>So he,

00:32:53.410 --> 00:32:56.849
<v Speaker 1>He see, they kind of see out the window when they get so close that they're crashing.

00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:57.210
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:32:57.211 --> 00:32:58.450
<v Speaker 1>Because they couldn't see anything.

00:32:58.451 --> 00:32:59.170
<v Speaker 1>They had no idea.

00:32:59.750 --> 00:33:08.160
<v Speaker 1>He realizes when they're kind of like get a, when like, you know, it's kinda like a scene in a movie where all of a sudden the clouds shift and you're like, like I'm right there.

00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Right wrong.

00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:13.319
<v Speaker 1>So he tries to like pull the plane vertically to, to make, to make it over.

00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:33:13.789 --> 00:33:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't the plane still hits two or three times.

00:33:16.819 --> 00:33:18.400
<v Speaker 1>One of the wings was torn off.

00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:34.400
<v Speaker 1>And one of the propellers, which was attached to the wing, sliced through the fuselage, um, and it ended up like lodged onto a glacier out of the 45 people who were on the plane, 33 survived the crash and many were very critically injured.

00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:42.109
<v Speaker 1>Two of the rugby players were first year medical students worked really hard to try and treat some of the wounds of the passengers.

00:33:42.609 --> 00:33:42.829
<v Speaker 1>So

00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:46.750
<v Speaker 2>Someone probably got to say, is there a doctor on board?

00:33:47.509 --> 00:33:47.509
<v Speaker 2><laugh>

00:33:47.509 --> 00:33:48.029
<v Speaker 1>There you go.

00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:52.670
<v Speaker 1>Despite their best efforts, additional passengers passed away from their injuries.

00:33:53.349 --> 00:33:53.349
<v Speaker 1>Oh,

00:33:53.349 --> 00:33:53.630
<v Speaker 2>You think

00:33:54.609 --> 00:34:00.460
<v Speaker 1>The passengers ended up being stranded for so 72 days over two months in the snowy mountains.

00:34:01.420 --> 00:34:01.420
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:02.059
<v Speaker 2>Oh, oh right.

00:34:02.299 --> 00:34:03.779
<v Speaker 2>Cuz they can't send rescue planes.

00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:06.980
<v Speaker 1>So there, there are rescue planes that are looking for them.

00:34:07.029 --> 00:34:07.380
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:34:07.381 --> 00:34:07.740
<v Speaker 1>But it's

00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:09.539
<v Speaker 2>Just visual confirmation in the Andes,

00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:13.380
<v Speaker 1>But the plane is white and it's everything is snow and they can't see.

00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:20.969
<v Speaker 1>And there's even like, there was a story of one passenger who tried to use like lipstick that he found on the plane to write SOS on it.

00:34:20.971 --> 00:34:26.369
<v Speaker 1>But ran out of lipstick like way earlier than, you know, like, like that you still couldn't see anything from the air.

00:34:26.389 --> 00:34:27.769
<v Speaker 1>He got the S right.

00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:29.929
<v Speaker 1>May, probably not even that's terrifying.

00:34:29.931 --> 00:34:30.210
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:34:31.030 --> 00:34:34.250
<v Speaker 1>So they, they did like immediately try to go out and look for them.

00:34:34.251 --> 00:34:43.719
<v Speaker 1>And I think the passengers could hear on the radio, like some of it, so they would try to prepare and make noise, but they couldn't, they just couldn't attract the attention because of the way that they were crashed.

00:34:43.989 --> 00:34:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:52.280
<v Speaker 1>And it was very difficult for them to try and travel, to leave and get help because again, it was, so the weather was so extreme.

00:34:52.389 --> 00:34:54.760
<v Speaker 1>This was like an uninhabited part of the world.

00:34:55.510 --> 00:35:00.389
<v Speaker 1>Like feet of snow, everywhere to go out into was just even more of a risk.

00:35:00.750 --> 00:35:03.309
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what do you know what elevation they ended up being

00:35:03.369 --> 00:35:03.590
<v Speaker 1>At?

00:35:03.949 --> 00:35:05.550
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, not off the top of my head.

00:35:05.710 --> 00:35:06.070
<v Speaker 1>I imagine

00:35:06.219 --> 00:35:07.070
<v Speaker 2>It's way up there.

00:35:07.309 --> 00:35:17.510
<v Speaker 1>I know that the altitude was so high that it also made like a lot, it expedited, a lot of people's wounds, a lot of people dying and it made people a lot hungrier because of where they were.

00:35:17.659 --> 00:35:17.949
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

00:35:18.010 --> 00:35:23.500
<v Speaker 1>So at the crash site, they used the fuselage shelter, but it was extremely small.

00:35:23.501 --> 00:35:27.099
<v Speaker 1>It was only about eight by 10 feet and the back was totally ripped off.

00:35:27.101 --> 00:35:27.260
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:35:27.260 --> 00:35:28.539
<v Speaker 1>So it was open to the elements.

00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.739
<v Speaker 1>The survivors used plane seats.

00:35:30.740 --> 00:35:34.219
<v Speaker 1>Like they ripped outta the plane to build a wall essentially to like cover the hole.

00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:43.650
<v Speaker 1>In addition to the other horrors of the situation, the crash site also endured an avalanche which killed a large portion of the survivors.

00:35:44.190 --> 00:35:51.090
<v Speaker 1>And this was like after a long period of time and only left a few feet, I think it was like a three feet opening at the top of the fuselage.

00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:52.809
<v Speaker 1>Like the whole thing just filled with snow.

00:35:52.811 --> 00:35:53.889
<v Speaker 1>So their shelter was just gone.

00:35:54.190 --> 00:35:55.570
<v Speaker 1>That's that's a bad deal.

00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:55.969
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:35:55.971 --> 00:36:00.050
<v Speaker 1>Like everything that happens in a store you're like, another thing, how I

00:36:00.309 --> 00:36:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Immediately demand a refund

00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:06.159
<v Speaker 1><laugh> there was no vegetation or animals in the area or the plane crashed.

00:36:06.579 --> 00:36:13.159
<v Speaker 1>So the food supplies that the passengers had on them and the things that they could kind of scavenge from the plane ran out very fast.

00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:20.880
<v Speaker 1>The passengers actually talked very democratically about the need to eat flesh from the deceased passengers in order to survive.

00:36:21.260 --> 00:36:22.480
<v Speaker 1>And they agreed right.

00:36:22.481 --> 00:36:23.920
<v Speaker 1>That they needed to do that.

00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:25.920
<v Speaker 1>They kind of like talked about it very openly.

00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:26.400
<v Speaker 1>That's

00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:26.920
<v Speaker 2>That's important

00:36:27.230 --> 00:36:27.719
<v Speaker 1>Consent.

00:36:27.789 --> 00:36:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:38.269
<v Speaker 1>One of the medical students took it upon themselves to cut the meat off because he had some experience with like anatomy, you know, hypothetically how to make it last, as long as they could.

00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:38.869
<v Speaker 1>Does

00:36:38.869 --> 00:36:39.750
<v Speaker 2>This happen in lost?

00:36:39.869 --> 00:36:40.429
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember.

00:36:40.710 --> 00:36:40.829
<v Speaker 2>Do they

00:36:40.829 --> 00:36:41.150
<v Speaker 1>Eat people?

00:36:41.429 --> 00:36:41.989
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so.

00:36:41.990 --> 00:36:42.190
<v Speaker 1>No.

00:36:42.710 --> 00:36:44.389
<v Speaker 2>I remember there was like, oh no, no, no.

00:36:44.670 --> 00:36:48.309
<v Speaker 2>There was like a whole pot point where they have no food.

00:36:48.311 --> 00:36:49.150
<v Speaker 2>They're starving.

00:36:49.610 --> 00:36:51.710
<v Speaker 2>And they have like the dead bodies from the crash.

00:36:52.550 --> 00:36:55.659
<v Speaker 2>Somebody is like, I think that is lost.

00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:56.659
<v Speaker 2>I'm not thinking of something else.

00:36:57.019 --> 00:36:57.019
<v Speaker 2>Huh?

00:36:57.250 --> 00:37:01.900
<v Speaker 2>Some guy just like takes it upon himself to like start preparing a body.

00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.539
<v Speaker 2>And obviously there's a big blowout and they're just like, okay, everyone just like cool down.

00:37:05.541 --> 00:37:06.420
<v Speaker 2>We'll dress this tomorrow.

00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.019
<v Speaker 2>And then overnight someone like burns the body so that it can't happen.

00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:10.500
<v Speaker 2>Huh?

00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:11.460
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember that.

00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:12.500
<v Speaker 1>But I believe you

00:37:12.570 --> 00:37:12.860
<v Speaker 2>It's.

00:37:12.860 --> 00:37:14.139
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's a lot of detail there.

00:37:14.141 --> 00:37:16.210
<v Speaker 2>So it's from something I might, maybe it's

00:37:16.210 --> 00:37:16.449
<v Speaker 1>Lost.

00:37:16.451 --> 00:37:17.210
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's from your

00:37:17.210 --> 00:37:17.570
<v Speaker 2>Memories.

00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:19.849
<v Speaker 2>It's just, oh, that this was last Thursday.

00:37:20.530 --> 00:37:23.489
<v Speaker 1><laugh> quoting from survivor Roberto KSA.

00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:26.369
<v Speaker 1>Our common goal was to survive.

00:37:26.630 --> 00:37:27.889
<v Speaker 1>But what we lacked was food.

00:37:28.190 --> 00:37:34.409
<v Speaker 1>We had long since run out of the meager pickings, we'd found on the plane and there was no vegetation or animal life to be found.

00:37:35.099 --> 00:37:44.920
<v Speaker 1>After just a few days, we were feeling the sensation of our bodies consuming themselves just to remain alive before long, we would become too weak to recover from starvation.

00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:57.750
<v Speaker 1>We knew the answer, but it was too terrible to contemplate the bodies of our friends and teammates preserved outside in the snow and ice contained vital life, giving protein that would help us survive.

00:37:58.289 --> 00:38:00.389
<v Speaker 1>But could we do it for a long time?

00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:01.190
<v Speaker 1>We agonized.

00:38:01.710 --> 00:38:11.070
<v Speaker 1>I went out into the snow and prayed to God for guidance without his consent, I felt I would be violating the memory of my friends, that I would be stealing their souls.

00:38:11.530 --> 00:38:14.750
<v Speaker 1>We wondered whether we were going mad even to contemplate such a thing.

00:38:15.550 --> 00:38:19.780
<v Speaker 1>Had we turned into brute Savage or was it the only same thing to do?

00:38:20.429 --> 00:38:20.780
<v Speaker 1>Truly.

00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:28.900
<v Speaker 1>We were pushing the limits of our fear quoting from survivor nanoo Prado's 2006 memoir at high altitude.

00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.380
<v Speaker 1>The body's caloric needs are astronomical.

00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:44.449
<v Speaker 1>We were starving in earnest with no hope of finding food, but our hunger soon grew that we searched anyway again and again, we scoured the fuselage in search of crumbs and Moss.

00:38:44.989 --> 00:38:48.849
<v Speaker 1>We tried to eat strips of leather, torn from pieces of luggage though.

00:38:48.851 --> 00:38:52.329
<v Speaker 1>We knew that the chemicals they had been treated with could do us more harm than good.

00:38:52.869 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 1>We ripped open sea cushions, hoping to find straw, but only found inedible upholstery for foam again and again, I came to the same conclusion unless we wanted to eat the clothes we were wearing.

00:39:04.369 --> 00:39:07.360
<v Speaker 1>There was nothing here, but aluminum, plastic, ice and rock.

00:39:08.300 --> 00:39:16.000
<v Speaker 1>And also just a note Parrado who we just heard the quote from actually protected the bodies of his mother and his sister from being eaten.

00:39:16.579 --> 00:39:21.440
<v Speaker 1>All of the passengers were Roman Catholic and some equated the act to the Eucharist.

00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:22.239
<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:26.239
<v Speaker 1>I believe only one passenger was unable to stomach it.

00:39:26.619 --> 00:39:29.599
<v Speaker 1>And they died from malnutrition at the time of their death.

00:39:29.601 --> 00:39:30.840
<v Speaker 1>They weighed only 50 pounds.

00:39:31.889 --> 00:39:35.030
<v Speaker 1>Eventually a small group decided that they needed to get help.

00:39:35.030 --> 00:39:36.989
<v Speaker 1>There was no other way to survive any longer.

00:39:37.050 --> 00:39:40.630
<v Speaker 1>And I think they had also heard on the radio that the search was being called off.

00:39:40.849 --> 00:39:41.269
<v Speaker 1>Oh geez.

00:39:41.369 --> 00:39:42.550
<v Speaker 1>And so they were like, it.

00:39:42.690 --> 00:39:44.110
<v Speaker 1>We like, this is our last chance.

00:39:44.250 --> 00:39:44.670
<v Speaker 1>That's

00:39:44.670 --> 00:39:47.590
<v Speaker 2>Amazing that they still had like radio capabilities.

00:39:47.659 --> 00:39:47.949
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:39:48.230 --> 00:39:49.710
<v Speaker 1>And so this was like a small subgroup.

00:39:49.750 --> 00:40:03.300
<v Speaker 1>I think it was three people, three men who went out and after harrowing a many day journey, like many, many days they encountered men on horseback across the river and were able to pass a note to them explaining what happened.

00:40:03.300 --> 00:40:05.940
<v Speaker 1>So they actually, they see these men across the river.

00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:10.099
<v Speaker 1>It takes,'em a really long time for them to notice them because the river is so loud.

00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:10.780
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:16.329
<v Speaker 1>And they finally get the attention of the men and men are like, we can't cross, we'll come back tomorrow.

00:40:16.730 --> 00:40:17.570
<v Speaker 1>Well, we'll meet you tomorrow.

00:40:17.630 --> 00:40:18.210
<v Speaker 1>How the heck do

00:40:18.210 --> 00:40:19.170
<v Speaker 2>They get a note across the

00:40:19.170 --> 00:40:19.329
<v Speaker 1>River?

00:40:19.590 --> 00:40:24.409
<v Speaker 1>So then the men come back with like a pencil and paper and somehow get it across to them.

00:40:24.710 --> 00:40:26.250
<v Speaker 1>And they write everything that happened.

00:40:26.929 --> 00:40:26.929
<v Speaker 1>They,

00:40:26.929 --> 00:40:29.050
<v Speaker 2>They tie it to a ball and throw it.

00:40:29.429 --> 00:40:31.570
<v Speaker 2>And the rugby players are like, we got this<laugh>

00:40:32.469 --> 00:40:37.679
<v Speaker 1>And the thing too, is that like when, so they, they go get help.

00:40:37.681 --> 00:40:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Right?

00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:44.760
<v Speaker 1>When help comes, the conditions are so bad that they can only rescue half of the people.

00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:56.550
<v Speaker 1>And they have to actually, the rescuers have to wait overnight with the other people in the fuselage until helicopters can come in be because it's just like, like mountain climbers couldn't descend.

00:40:56.619 --> 00:40:59.949
<v Speaker 1>Like that's how precarious this crash site was.

00:40:59.951 --> 00:41:00.829
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty bad.

00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:01.309
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:06.309
<v Speaker 1>And of course, after their rescue, the incident made global headlines.

00:41:06.820 --> 00:41:09.989
<v Speaker 1>Once people found out that cannibalism took place, they were horrified.

00:41:10.849 --> 00:41:21.500
<v Speaker 1>But the family members of those who had been eaten understood the, and accepted that their deceased family members would have wanted to help the remaining passengers to survive.

00:41:22.059 --> 00:41:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I mean, I get, I get that.

00:41:49.849 --> 00:41:50.199
<v Speaker 2>Would

00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:51.039
<v Speaker 1>You be able to do it?

00:41:51.041 --> 00:41:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Do you think, eat

00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Somebody yeah.

00:41:52.579 --> 00:41:53.079
<v Speaker 2>To survive?

00:41:53.150 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably.

00:41:55.239 --> 00:42:09.989
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I, you know, who can say, when you're put in these like life or death situations, the will to survive either like gets cranked up to 11 or you give up, I don't feel like people are wobbling, you know?

00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:10.829
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:42:11.949 --> 00:42:12.670
<v Speaker 2>Cause yeah.

00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:19.070
<v Speaker 2>The only way you're getting out of that is if you are willing to do anything.

00:42:19.420 --> 00:42:19.710
<v Speaker 2>Yeah,

00:42:20.179 --> 00:42:20.670
<v Speaker 1>Totally.

00:42:21.050 --> 00:42:24.179
<v Speaker 2>You can't, you can't just lo this like yeah.

00:42:24.181 --> 00:42:25.460
<v Speaker 2>You can't slow pitch this guy.

00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:25.900
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:42:26.179 --> 00:42:26.340
<v Speaker 2><laugh> yeah.

00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:31.139
<v Speaker 1>So that's our, that concludes our unit class on survival cannibalism.

00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:32.500
<v Speaker 1>That's it?

00:42:33.010 --> 00:42:35.139
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's not it, but that's it on survival cannibalism.

00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:35.820
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:38.619
<v Speaker 1>Thoughts, feelings, concerns.

00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:39.500
<v Speaker 1>Feel

00:42:39.619 --> 00:42:39.780
<v Speaker 2>Like there.

00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:40.340
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to think.

00:42:40.340 --> 00:42:42.659
<v Speaker 2>There's gotta be more super famous examples.

00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:43.340
<v Speaker 2>Oh, there

00:42:43.340 --> 00:42:43.539
<v Speaker 1>Are.

00:42:43.541 --> 00:42:47.340
<v Speaker 1>These were just, again, we don't, we, we're not gonna spend six years on it.

00:42:48.300 --> 00:43:03.250
<v Speaker 2>I told this story during our, when to go episode, but I think about it often and was from the game twist to metal black, where you get the backstory of one of the characters.

00:43:03.251 --> 00:43:20.639
<v Speaker 2>So obviously this is fiction, but it was a soldier in the Vietnam war who was captured by, by the enemy and thrown into a pit with, uh, his comrade and his comrade really gravely wounded, mortally wounded.

00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:31.280
<v Speaker 2>And after a few days, his buddy dies and then there's this, their, their captor just keeps checking in periodically, you know, just smiling down in the pit.

00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:35.960
<v Speaker 2>And eventually after time has passed and the per and his friend is very dead.

00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:38.190
<v Speaker 2>He just throw was a knife down.

00:43:38.789 --> 00:43:43.670
<v Speaker 2>Cuz he's expecting that he's going to have to eat his comrade in order to survive.

00:43:43.690 --> 00:43:44.309
<v Speaker 2>And he does.

00:43:45.130 --> 00:43:53.550
<v Speaker 2>He not only eats his friend to have in order to survive, he then cleans the skull and wears it as a helmet.

00:43:54.150 --> 00:43:54.150
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

00:43:54.369 --> 00:43:54.989
<v Speaker 2>His name is Mr.

00:43:54.990 --> 00:43:55.269
<v Speaker 2>Grim.

00:43:56.190 --> 00:43:56.710
<v Speaker 1><laugh> very grim.

00:43:56.969 --> 00:43:57.829
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what time it is?

00:43:58.579 --> 00:43:58.579
<v Speaker 1>No.

00:43:59.170 --> 00:44:00.380
<v Speaker 1>It's serial killer time.

00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:00.780
<v Speaker 1>Oh,

00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:01.860
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy.

00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:02.099
<v Speaker 2>Your

00:44:02.460 --> 00:44:02.460
<v Speaker 1>Favors.

00:44:02.460 --> 00:44:04.739
<v Speaker 1>And I, I will just say serial killer and killer.

00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:06.739
<v Speaker 1>Not all of these are serial killers.

00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.059
<v Speaker 2>You and millennial women everywhere.

00:44:09.670 --> 00:44:17.300
<v Speaker 1>There are a handful of famous killers that either dabbled in or obsessed over cannibalism name

00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:18.340
<v Speaker 2>One on the

00:44:19.059 --> 00:44:29.210
<v Speaker 1>Three or four<laugh> some experts think that killers who engage with cannibalism are using it as the ultimate triumph, like consuming their prey.

00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:29.730
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:44:29.980 --> 00:44:33.250
<v Speaker 1>We'll get into some of the psychology at the end of, of the episode, but

00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:34.130
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:44:34.369 --> 00:44:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Cuz you know, you're, you're a predator and you, you, you hunt the uh, the lop mm-hmm<affirmative> and uh, eat the antelope.

00:44:41.909 --> 00:44:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Very good.

00:44:42.699 --> 00:44:46.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna say this, every new topic that we broach.

00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:49.840
<v Speaker 1>But again, these are all things that weren't like very deep discussions.

00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:53.559
<v Speaker 1>So feel free to follow up with your own, uh, research.

00:44:53.570 --> 00:44:54.760
<v Speaker 1>After, after this,

00:44:55.159 --> 00:45:00.710
<v Speaker 2>I am quite proud of us because we talk a lot of different topics.

00:45:01.190 --> 00:45:07.190
<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm<affirmative> but we only talk about serial killers every now and then last time I think was clowns.

00:45:07.989 --> 00:45:08.469
<v Speaker 1>Mm probably.

00:45:08.500 --> 00:45:08.789
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:10.070
<v Speaker 2>Which is great.

00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:13.030
<v Speaker 2>Cuz it's a very, uh, overdone subject if you have,

00:45:13.309 --> 00:45:21.059
<v Speaker 1>And we're not, we don't wanna glorify in the us, especially there's a lot of fascination or glorification of people like Ted Bundy.

00:45:21.061 --> 00:45:21.300
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:26.300
<v Speaker 1>We're not trying to do that as well with this podcast, but there are times when they're relevant to talk about.

00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:27.460
<v Speaker 1>So we will talk about them.

00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:30.940
<v Speaker 2>My favorite serial killer, Michael Myers.

00:45:31.739 --> 00:45:31.980
<v Speaker 2><laugh> okay.

00:45:32.989 --> 00:45:34.780
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna start off with ed Geen.

00:45:36.019 --> 00:45:38.980
<v Speaker 1>Ed Geen is an American killer and body snatcher.

00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:41.860
<v Speaker 1>He was born in 1906 in Wisconsin.

00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:51.179
<v Speaker 1>And there's actually some, uh, controversy over whether or not he was actually accountable, but I will make the case that he sort of belongs in this episode.

00:45:51.610 --> 00:45:51.900
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:45:52.539 --> 00:45:54.929
<v Speaker 2>But did he, or did he not eat people?

00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:56.530
<v Speaker 1>We'll get to it.

00:45:57.489 --> 00:45:59.929
<v Speaker 2>Cause for me that's the deciding factor.

00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:00.449
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:46:00.690 --> 00:46:17.199
<v Speaker 1>Well we will discuss, he had an interest at an early age in reading pulp magazines that centered around Nazis and cannibals Geen is technically not a serial killer, but he did confess to killing at least two women in 1954, Mary Hogan.

00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:28.159
<v Speaker 1>And in 1957, Bernice warden, after she was killed warden's son who was a police deputy decided to investigate Dean who'd always been a bit of a weird character.

00:46:28.659 --> 00:46:32.199
<v Speaker 1>And what they found was a farm filled with human body parts.

00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Interesting famously.

00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:41.110
<v Speaker 1>He exhumed many bodies and fashioned the parts into strange objects that he kept in his home.

00:46:41.489 --> 00:46:41.710
<v Speaker 1>Oh,

00:46:41.909 --> 00:46:42.510
<v Speaker 2>Was this the lamp

00:46:42.730 --> 00:46:42.949
<v Speaker 1>Guy?

00:46:43.570 --> 00:46:46.429
<v Speaker 1>The list of what they found is incredibly graphic.

00:46:47.050 --> 00:46:49.349
<v Speaker 1>So I will not go into too many details here.

00:46:49.351 --> 00:46:51.750
<v Speaker 1>And if you wanna skip ahead a few minutes, go for it.

00:46:52.250 --> 00:46:59.659
<v Speaker 1>But there are many, and again, there are also many true crime podcasts that cover this, like an extreme graphic detail.

00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:01.059
<v Speaker 1>If you're into it, this is the

00:47:01.059 --> 00:47:01.539
<v Speaker 2>Lamp guy.

00:47:01.541 --> 00:47:01.940
<v Speaker 2>Isn't it.

00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:03.500
<v Speaker 1>To give you a sense.

00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:05.860
<v Speaker 1>The fridge was filled with human organs.

00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:08.460
<v Speaker 1>The furniture was upholstered with skin.

00:47:09.190 --> 00:47:15.579
<v Speaker 1>There were masks made out of human skin and all kinds of different pieces of clothing like leggings and shirts.

00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:21.010
<v Speaker 1>The, there were human skulls that were being used for bowls, just like the Vikings used to do.

00:47:21.829 --> 00:47:29.489
<v Speaker 1>And there were many different body parts that had been fashioned into clothing, which partially inspired Buffalo bill from the silence of the lamps.

00:47:29.730 --> 00:47:30.489
<v Speaker 1>Oh, we love that movie.

00:47:31.349 --> 00:47:33.650
<v Speaker 1>And here's the point of cannibalism contention.

00:47:34.460 --> 00:47:40.559
<v Speaker 1>There is a heart that sat the stove and there's some controversy about this heart.

00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:42.760
<v Speaker 1>It was the heart of Bernice warden, his last victim.

00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:51.159
<v Speaker 1>And some believe that the heart is the only sign that G was accountable and that he was about to eat it.

00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:53.920
<v Speaker 1>And others believe that it was not actually intended to be eaten.

00:47:54.380 --> 00:47:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Did they

00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Ever ask him?

00:47:56.179 --> 00:47:57.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure they did that.

00:47:57.809 --> 00:48:00.230
<v Speaker 1>People like very broadly though.

00:48:00.231 --> 00:48:03.590
<v Speaker 1>Like there's just like a common belief that he was accountable.

00:48:04.269 --> 00:48:04.389
<v Speaker 1>I

00:48:04.389 --> 00:48:06.190
<v Speaker 2>Mean, I don't know anything.

00:48:06.389 --> 00:48:23.420
<v Speaker 2>I don't, I don't follow serial killer lore and I, I don't know anything about this guy outside of he's the lamp guy, but if you go to all this trouble of dealing with meat, human meat, don't you think you'd try it.

00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:32.300
<v Speaker 1>That's literally Alan, what I wrote<laugh> I wrote, I sort of don't think you fashion an entire house out of human parts without trying a taste.

00:48:33.010 --> 00:48:33.300
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:48:33.539 --> 00:48:37.179
<v Speaker 2>Cuz like he'd have friends over and he'd be like, oh you, you eat them, don't you?

00:48:37.659 --> 00:48:38.099
<v Speaker 2>What he is he gonna say?

00:48:38.101 --> 00:48:39.340
<v Speaker 2>Like, I don't know, never

00:48:39.340 --> 00:48:40.300
<v Speaker 1>Tried exactly.

00:48:40.409 --> 00:48:46.059
<v Speaker 1>Like I, I and his fridge was filled, you know, it's just like, uh, I bet that he at least dabbled.

00:48:46.739 --> 00:48:46.940
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of

00:48:46.940 --> 00:48:47.139
<v Speaker 2>Course.

00:48:47.659 --> 00:48:47.659
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:48:48.059 --> 00:48:53.849
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, maybe he's not Hannibal Lecter where he's just like, that's jump and Cho.

00:48:53.909 --> 00:48:55.329
<v Speaker 2>That's where he gets his jollies.

00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:55.849
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:48:56.349 --> 00:48:59.409
<v Speaker 2>But you know, de definitely the little, little taste

00:48:59.750 --> 00:49:02.769
<v Speaker 1>He was found guilty of murder of Bernice warden.

00:49:03.150 --> 00:49:07.849
<v Speaker 1>He was also found legally insane and spent the rest of his days in a mental health facility.

00:49:08.590 --> 00:49:19.280
<v Speaker 1>In addition to the silence of the lambs Yen's obsession with his mother is to have inspired the character of Norman Bates in the book psycho, um, which we do talk about in our psycho episode,

00:49:19.829 --> 00:49:22.559
<v Speaker 2>This guy, what a weirdo mm-hmm<affirmative> did.

00:49:22.659 --> 00:49:28.519
<v Speaker 2>So did I'm sure someone they must have just asked him, Hey, are you, did you eat people?

00:49:28.820 --> 00:49:29.800
<v Speaker 2>And he probably gave an answer.

00:49:30.429 --> 00:49:30.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:49:31.309 --> 00:49:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:36.150
<v Speaker 2>So I just did a little Google thing to try to get to the bottom of this and you're right.

00:49:36.150 --> 00:49:43.150
<v Speaker 2>It's really not a clear cut answer because he refused to admit to cannibalism.

00:49:43.369 --> 00:49:47.949
<v Speaker 2>He act, he actually said that he was not nor necrophiliac.

00:49:48.940 --> 00:49:55.820
<v Speaker 2>However, the like I guess they, they, they found the last body strung up like a slaughter house.

00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:05.659
<v Speaker 2>And like he was famous around town for like giving people meet that he had said he'd hunted.

00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:12.340
<v Speaker 2>And so like after he got arrested and the story broke, people were like running to their doctors being like, oh my God, I ate meat from this guy.

00:50:13.329 --> 00:50:13.619
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.130
<v Speaker 1>So it

00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:17.969
<v Speaker 2>He's, he's checking all the cannibal

00:50:18.059 --> 00:50:19.769
<v Speaker 1>Boxes we don't know for sure.

00:50:19.869 --> 00:50:22.130
<v Speaker 1>But I bet that something happened.

00:50:22.530 --> 00:50:23.010
<v Speaker 1>I think it's

00:50:23.050 --> 00:50:23.969
<v Speaker 2>A fair assumption.

00:50:24.570 --> 00:50:38.440
<v Speaker 1>I next wanna talk very briefly considering the very graphic and violent nature of this person, but one of the most famous cannibal serial killers is someone named Albert fish, Albert

00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Fish, Albert

00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:54.639
<v Speaker 1>Fish is an extremely difficult person to research and talk about because his crimes are so horrific, I'm gonna be brief, but there's a lot of coverage out there on other true crime podcasts and, and documentaries, if you can stomach it.

00:50:54.949 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:50:56.110 --> 00:50:58.670
<v Speaker 1>Phish was born in 1870 in Washington, DC.

00:50:59.170 --> 00:50:59.909
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I've been there.

00:51:00.369 --> 00:51:08.510
<v Speaker 1>He is also known as the gray man, the WOL of west hysteria, the Brooklyn vampire, the moon maniac and the boogeyman.

00:51:08.750 --> 00:51:09.070
<v Speaker 1>I thought

00:51:09.070 --> 00:51:10.389
<v Speaker 2>The Brooklyn vampire was Eddie Murphy.

00:51:10.849 --> 00:51:11.070
<v Speaker 2>He

00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:16.619
<v Speaker 1>Killed at least three children between the years of 1924 and 28.

00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:32.099
<v Speaker 1>But at one point he bragged that he had about a hundred victims, Phish who was mentally unwell, believed that God was commanding him to commit the crimes he committed, which I don't wanna get again too into it's they involve children.

00:51:32.409 --> 00:51:33.579
<v Speaker 1>It's a big bummer.

00:51:33.581 --> 00:51:34.900
<v Speaker 1>We're not gonna talk about it.

00:51:34.900 --> 00:51:41.139
<v Speaker 1>But I will say trust me that he was accountable on January 16th, 1936.

00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:44.059
<v Speaker 1>He was executed with the electric chair.

00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:44.340
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

00:51:44.889 --> 00:51:48.340
<v Speaker 1>Next we have Japanese killer Isai.

00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:53.409
<v Speaker 1>SAA was born in Japan in 1949.

00:51:53.949 --> 00:51:57.170
<v Speaker 1>He is also known as Pang or the Kobe cannibal.

00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:02.849
<v Speaker 1>He's an infamous cannibal murderer and neph profile who specifically killed and committed.

00:52:02.851 --> 00:52:06.530
<v Speaker 1>These heinous acts on the corpse of Renee heartfelt in Paris.

00:52:07.849 --> 00:52:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Sagawa had invited Renee, a Dutch woman to his apartment in 1981 under the guise of translating poetry for homework.

00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:22.119
<v Speaker 1>And he thought that she was exceptionally beautiful and healthy and that eating her would give him those qualities.

00:52:22.980 --> 00:52:23.199
<v Speaker 1>Huh?

00:52:23.420 --> 00:52:29.239
<v Speaker 1>So he was looking for like this self-improvement sort of thing that he thought cannibalism would deliver.

00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:37.670
<v Speaker 1>Ah, he's into self-help unfortunately Sagawa was found legally insane and unfit to stand trial in France.

00:52:38.570 --> 00:52:48.030
<v Speaker 1>He gained a sort of celebrity status similar to that of Ted Bundy in the us mm-hmm<affirmative> so France decided because he was kind of garnering all of this like bizarre attention.

00:52:48.699 --> 00:52:54.099
<v Speaker 1>They decided to deport him back to Japan where he and immediately entered another mental health facility.

00:52:54.480 --> 00:53:00.420
<v Speaker 1>But because of some logistical where France would not release the charges to Japan, the file was sealed.

00:53:01.110 --> 00:53:04.780
<v Speaker 1>Japan could not legally hold him with their laws in the facility.

00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:08.300
<v Speaker 1>And he was able to check himself out in 1986.

00:53:08.980 --> 00:53:10.420
<v Speaker 1>Then he still lives today as a free man.

00:53:10.570 --> 00:53:17.489
<v Speaker 1>What of course after that us, everyone knew who he was and he struggled to find employment or any meaningful normalcy.

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:24.769
<v Speaker 1>There was like a point where he was invited as like a guest speaker to things, but he's known like really publicly for his crimes.

00:53:25.469 --> 00:53:27.130
<v Speaker 1>So he couldn't just like blend back in.

00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:29.329
<v Speaker 1>He's had kind of like a, a bummer life.

00:53:29.389 --> 00:53:36.679
<v Speaker 1>But the ironic thing is that he says that that was, has been the worst punishment that he like couldn't find work well, don't eat people.

00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:38.480
<v Speaker 1>It's, it's not that hard.

00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:41.880
<v Speaker 1>He was not allowed to attend the funeral of his parents.

00:53:42.820 --> 00:53:49.000
<v Speaker 1>And in 2013 he experienced a medical issue that left him in need of daily medical attention.

00:53:49.219 --> 00:53:51.920
<v Speaker 1>And he's fairly isolated in his home because of that.

00:53:52.789 --> 00:53:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, that worked.

00:53:53.710 --> 00:53:53.710
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:53:54.130 --> 00:54:03.750
<v Speaker 1>We cannot talk about cannibalistic serial killers without talking about the one and only Jeffrey Dahmer Dahmer was born in Wisconsin in 1960.

00:54:03.849 --> 00:54:06.670
<v Speaker 1>So two of the four people that we've talked about are from Wisconsin.

00:54:07.489 --> 00:54:15.139
<v Speaker 1>He is also known as the Milwaukee cannibal Dahmer is probably one of the most covered serial killer in true crime.

00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:21.380
<v Speaker 1>And he murdered 17 boys and young men between the years of 1978 and 1991.

00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:25.860
<v Speaker 1>He later confessed to eating the thighs, biceps and organs of some of his victims.

00:54:26.500 --> 00:54:37.900
<v Speaker 1>I also just wanna like really briefly note this because I thought it was interesting, but there's a writer named James Christman who claims to have, and this is totally separate from serial killers.

00:54:37.900 --> 00:54:40.420
<v Speaker 1>This is just like a intermediate note.

00:54:40.769 --> 00:54:41.059
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:54:41.309 --> 00:54:48.099
<v Speaker 1>James Christman claimed to have reports from the 1930s or so originating in the Appalachian region.

00:54:48.530 --> 00:54:55.769
<v Speaker 1><affirmative> that indicate that ritual cannibalism was practiced specifically the act of eating deceased relatives as a way to honor them.

00:54:56.280 --> 00:54:58.530
<v Speaker 1>There's not like a ton that's known about it.

00:54:58.989 --> 00:55:04.610
<v Speaker 1>It was some of these like firsthand sources that he found, but I just thought that it was kind of interesting and wanted to mention it.

00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:05.170
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:55:05.309 --> 00:55:09.519
<v Speaker 2>But that, but that concludes our, are we done with serial killers?

00:55:09.619 --> 00:55:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:55:09.869 --> 00:55:10.159
<v Speaker 2>Done.

00:55:10.161 --> 00:55:10.559
<v Speaker 2>Thank God.

00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:11.840
<v Speaker 2>It, I, I don't like it.

00:55:12.090 --> 00:55:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Don't like it one

00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Bit.

00:55:13.030 --> 00:55:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's good to know.

00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:15.599
<v Speaker 1>It's is

00:55:15.769 --> 00:55:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Gross.

00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:19.360
<v Speaker 2>I I've, I've never been fascinated by serial killers.

00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:20.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't really get the lure.

00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't know.

00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I, that that's not fair.

00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:24.159
<v Speaker 2>I understand.

00:55:24.161 --> 00:55:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Like through morbid curiosity, a lot of people I really, really into it.

00:55:29.409 --> 00:55:30.190
<v Speaker 2>Can you explain that?

00:55:30.869 --> 00:55:30.869
<v Speaker 2><laugh>

00:55:31.349 --> 00:55:32.110
<v Speaker 1>Uh, no.

00:55:32.510 --> 00:55:46.030
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think for a lot of people, for a lot of, I think my peer set and for myself, the fascination with true crime is rooted in like survival mechanics, right?

00:55:46.030 --> 00:55:52.099
<v Speaker 1>Like the more that you understand the enemy, especially as women, the more you can outsmart them or survive them.

00:55:52.360 --> 00:56:01.500
<v Speaker 1>So I think a lot of people that I know who are interested in true crime, it's either a, a motivation because you want justice for the victims.

00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:14.090
<v Speaker 1>And so you wanna talk about that or because you want to understand and have like a hyper Aness of this thing that could kill you.

00:56:14.989 --> 00:56:26.570
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's that's I also think of to acknowledge, of course there is in a lot of instances like women and men and people who, uh, definitely almost like worship serial killers.

00:56:26.570 --> 00:56:28.650
<v Speaker 1>And that's like a total subsection of people.

00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:33.079
<v Speaker 1>That's like some mental UN you know, know mental illnesses going on there.

00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:41.920
<v Speaker 1>And, but I think the idea is probably I'm not a psychologist, but the idea is probably a lot of people, for example, like wrote into jail to Charlie Manson.

00:56:42.420 --> 00:56:49.159
<v Speaker 1>And the idea is like, if you win over such a horrific monster, you know, it gives you like this sense of whatever importance.

00:56:50.239 --> 00:57:04.630
<v Speaker 2>But to that note, if, if it's a survival mechanism to like really learn about the nitty gritty and protect yourself, why doesn't everyone go after the number one killer and learn medicine to combat heart disease?

00:57:06.219 --> 00:57:06.510
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:57:06.539 --> 00:57:07.869
<v Speaker 1>It's a good counterpoint, Alan.

00:57:07.871 --> 00:57:09.269
<v Speaker 1>I don't have the answer for you right now.

00:57:10.010 --> 00:57:15.300
<v Speaker 1>Did you know that one of the us present narrowly avoided being eaten by cannibals?

00:57:15.449 --> 00:57:15.739
<v Speaker 1>What

00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:17.179
<v Speaker 2>Can I guess which president?

00:57:17.449 --> 00:57:17.739
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:21.099
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say Bush.

00:57:21.380 --> 00:57:22.619
<v Speaker 2>S correct.

00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:23.219
<v Speaker 1>Really?

00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:23.659
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:25.019
<v Speaker 1>Did you look at that?

00:57:25.021 --> 00:57:27.420
<v Speaker 1>One was a total guess what the?

00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:32.539
<v Speaker 1>So this is something called the Chicha GMA incident.

00:57:33.739 --> 00:57:34.219
<v Speaker 1>What, what is

00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:35.179
<v Speaker 2>What's he doing with

00:57:35.179 --> 00:57:55.409
<v Speaker 1>Cannibals in 1944 during world war II, nine Navy airmen were shot down while their planes flew over a small island off the coast of Japan, about 700 miles south of Tokyo, eight of the nine soldiers were captured and killed Japanese soldiers ate four of the us men's body parts.

00:57:56.190 --> 00:57:57.369
<v Speaker 1>How did Bush survive?

00:57:58.039 --> 00:58:07.079
<v Speaker 1>Well,<laugh> his parachute was blown in a different direction than the other men when the planes were crashing and he landed in the ocean instead of on the eye island.

00:58:07.579 --> 00:58:11.199
<v Speaker 1>And he was eventually rescued by an American summary, huh.

00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:19.639
<v Speaker 1>But the men whose parachutes landed on the, or were able to actually correctly steer their parachutes onto the island, which they thought was going to save them right.

00:58:20.550 --> 00:58:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Were captured by Japanese soldiers and four of them were Ian.

00:58:25.150 --> 00:58:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:58:25.789 --> 00:58:28.510
<v Speaker 1>That is that the little blip in history?

00:58:28.900 --> 00:58:29.190
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:58:29.309 --> 00:58:31.030
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know that about, uh, B senior.

00:58:31.809 --> 00:58:32.230
<v Speaker 1>Me either.

00:58:32.409 --> 00:58:33.269
<v Speaker 1>That's a weird one.

00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:34.110
<v Speaker 1>It's very weird.

00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:37.710
<v Speaker 2>Just imagine, you know, you're around Thanksgiving dinner.

00:58:38.099 --> 00:58:39.869
<v Speaker 2>It's like, Hey dad, remember that time?

00:58:39.871 --> 00:58:41.429
<v Speaker 2>You almost gotta eat by cannibals.

00:58:41.789 --> 00:58:42.070
<v Speaker 2>Yes, son.

00:58:42.650 --> 00:58:45.389
<v Speaker 1>So this was all known as the Chicha GMA incident.

00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:51.820
<v Speaker 2>It's, it's really a shame that more us politicians don't land on cannibal islands.

00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:56.539
<v Speaker 1>Armen Muey was born in Germany in 1961.

00:58:57.039 --> 00:58:59.059
<v Speaker 1>And this whole section is gonna be a little bit graphic.

00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:07.420
<v Speaker 1>So again, if you wanna skip ahead, follow your heart in 2001, he swept global headlines for murdering and eating someone.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:10.369
<v Speaker 1>The, it was a voluntary victim.

00:59:10.670 --> 00:59:11.170
<v Speaker 1>Oh boy.

00:59:12.010 --> 00:59:14.889
<v Speaker 1>Muey posted an ad on a website called the cannibal cafe.

00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:23.369
<v Speaker 1>What quoting this is quoting from the ad, looking for a normally built 18 to 25 year old to be slaughtered and then consumed.

00:59:23.909 --> 00:59:24.130
<v Speaker 1>Huh?

00:59:24.469 --> 00:59:27.530
<v Speaker 1>And apparently 400 people responded to him.

00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:28.369
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:59:29.300 --> 00:59:30.480
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of them backed out.

00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.599
<v Speaker 1>Uh, you think, but one person did not back out.

00:59:34.900 --> 00:59:44.280
<v Speaker 1>And that was someone who was a little outside of his age range, but 43 year old burned Yugen Armando, Brandy, who I will refer to.

00:59:44.530 --> 00:59:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Hence fourth as brandies burned,

00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:48.639
<v Speaker 2>Jurgen, Armando,

00:59:48.699 --> 00:59:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Brandy.

00:59:49.650 --> 00:59:59.389
<v Speaker 1>He responded to the posting in March of 2001 on March 9th, 2001, the two men met up and made a video that documented everything that happened.

00:59:59.980 --> 01:00:06.670
<v Speaker 1>According to reports, Brandy, the victim took 20 sleeping pills and drank a bottle of cough syrup.

01:00:06.809 --> 01:00:10.579
<v Speaker 1>In order to, I suppose, self-medicate before what was about to happen.

01:00:10.750 --> 01:00:16.619
<v Speaker 1>Uhhuh, the video shows Brandy's giving consent to Muey before Muey removed Brandy's penis.

01:00:17.659 --> 01:00:17.659
<v Speaker 1>What?

01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:19.860
<v Speaker 1>At first he attempted to bite it off.

01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:23.099
<v Speaker 1>And when that didn't work, he cut it off with a knife.

01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:26.059
<v Speaker 1>And both men tried to eat parts of it.

01:00:26.289 --> 01:00:35.659
<v Speaker 1>When it proved to quote on chewy, Muis tried to fry in a pan with some human fat from Brandy's, but it was too burnt.

01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:37.300
<v Speaker 1>So Muey fed it to his dog.

01:00:37.690 --> 01:00:42.659
<v Speaker 1>According to the officials who have seen the video, Brandy was very weak from blood loss.

01:00:42.661 --> 01:00:52.610
<v Speaker 1>At this point, Muey puts him in a bathtub while he watches star Trek and kind of keeps checking on him until Brandy passes out and then kills him with a knife.

01:00:52.739 --> 01:00:57.210
<v Speaker 1>After saying a prayer, the video documents, all of this over four hours of tape.

01:00:57.909 --> 01:01:00.050
<v Speaker 1>It, all this all takes place in MEE's home.

01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:05.079
<v Speaker 1>After the tape stops rolling, MEE's continue to keep the body in his home home.

01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:06.760
<v Speaker 1>He dismembers it.

01:01:07.059 --> 01:01:09.760
<v Speaker 1>And he slowly eats it over the course of 10 months.

01:01:10.550 --> 01:01:30.429
<v Speaker 1>It's estimated that he ate at least 44 pounds of human in December of 2002, after someone sent the original online posting to the police, the authorities entered MU's home and found the videotape and the body parts in 2004, he was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to eight years.

01:01:31.170 --> 01:01:34.670
<v Speaker 1>His sentence was later lengthened in 2006 to life.

01:01:35.269 --> 01:01:35.630
<v Speaker 1>I, I

01:01:35.630 --> 01:01:36.510
<v Speaker 2>Don't like that at all.

01:01:37.909 --> 01:01:38.510
<v Speaker 2>Not, not

01:01:38.650 --> 01:01:39.110
<v Speaker 1>One bit.

01:01:39.340 --> 01:01:40.349
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's interesting.

01:01:40.351 --> 01:01:51.579
<v Speaker 1>And the reason why I included it is because it is the same thing as this idea of, and while murder, even with consent is not legal, which is why he got the sentence that he did.

01:01:52.250 --> 01:01:53.500
<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting situation.

01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:55.460
<v Speaker 1>I'm not one to king shame.

01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:56.179
<v Speaker 1>Mm-hmm<affirmative>

01:01:57.039 --> 01:01:57.860
<v Speaker 2>But come on.

01:01:58.559 --> 01:01:59.619
<v Speaker 2>That's that's

01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:00.099
<v Speaker 1>Not good.

01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:02.059
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I agree.

01:02:02.650 --> 01:02:02.940
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

01:02:03.079 --> 01:02:03.780
<v Speaker 1>Moving on.

01:02:03.949 --> 01:02:08.329
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to another kink related cannibalism.

01:02:08.809 --> 01:02:09.170
<v Speaker 1>Oh, come on.

01:02:10.130 --> 01:02:11.130
<v Speaker 1>Gilberto valley.

01:02:11.449 --> 01:02:16.929
<v Speaker 1>The third was born on April 14th, 1984 in Queens, New York.

01:02:17.829 --> 01:02:20.610
<v Speaker 1>And is now mostly known as the cannibal cop.

01:02:21.230 --> 01:02:23.449
<v Speaker 1>All of this went down when I first moved to New York.

01:02:23.451 --> 01:02:24.489
<v Speaker 1>So it really<laugh>.

01:02:24.650 --> 01:02:27.400
<v Speaker 1>I said it in the first episode, it really like me out.

01:02:27.559 --> 01:02:29.519
<v Speaker 1>Like I remember being on the subway, like reading articles.

01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:30.280
<v Speaker 1>No, this is

01:02:30.280 --> 01:02:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Your, your they're not quoting

01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Here.

01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:32.920
<v Speaker 1>This is you.

01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:33.840
<v Speaker 1>No, that was me.

01:02:33.909 --> 01:02:35.159
<v Speaker 1>That was part of my, yeah.

01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:35.679
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

01:02:35.681 --> 01:02:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

01:02:36.179 --> 01:02:41.800
<v Speaker 1>And I also think like it's a story that some, most Americans have an awareness of.

01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:43.480
<v Speaker 1>So I, I wanted to include it here today.

01:02:43.940 --> 01:03:01.670
<v Speaker 1>Valley was convicted for conspiracy to kidnap his wife, turned him in after she found logs of his conversations with online users on a forum called dark fetish net, where he talked about his plan to abduct torture, kill, rape, and eat women in his life.

01:03:02.050 --> 01:03:10.900
<v Speaker 1>His wife included this is very debated because it's essentially he's arrested pre-crime.

01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:15.219
<v Speaker 1>And so some people argue and I'm gonna lay out the kind of pros and cons.

01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:20.579
<v Speaker 1>But some people argue that this was a total kink happened online.

01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:22.380
<v Speaker 1>It was not meant for him.

01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:26.380
<v Speaker 1>He never was actually going to do it sexual kink, right.

01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:27.780
<v Speaker 1>Nothing more a fantasy.

01:03:28.289 --> 01:03:28.579
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

01:03:28.630 --> 01:03:40.900
<v Speaker 1>Other people say, because he names real women in his life because he uses the N Y P D uh, database to, to get information about women that regardless he crossed a legal line, right?

01:03:41.650 --> 01:03:41.940
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:43.530
<v Speaker 1>Here are the details.

01:03:43.989 --> 01:03:47.929
<v Speaker 1>In 2013, he was found guilty and his wife divorced him.

01:03:48.230 --> 01:03:49.769
<v Speaker 1>But later it was reversed.

01:03:50.150 --> 01:03:56.289
<v Speaker 1>The, the, the guilty ruling was reversed after it was classified as quote, fantasy role play.

01:03:56.710 --> 01:03:58.050
<v Speaker 1>We should be very blunt though.

01:03:58.929 --> 01:04:02.530
<v Speaker 1>Valley had created what he called a blueprint for these alleged.

01:04:03.579 --> 01:04:07.800
<v Speaker 1>He was very explicit online about how he would actually commit them.

01:04:08.380 --> 01:04:12.800
<v Speaker 1>And he shared photos of the women in his life, including his wife on these forums.

01:04:13.309 --> 01:04:18.159
<v Speaker 1>This is an element that some believe again, take it out of the fantasy world and into the real world.

01:04:18.659 --> 01:04:26.949
<v Speaker 1>He also TA so he he's literally talks about like exactly how he would, it, he builds out almost like a manifesto of like a step by step plan.

01:04:27.769 --> 01:04:33.110
<v Speaker 1>He also talks about exchanging money with some of the other users fees for him, kidnapping.

01:04:33.110 --> 01:04:35.110
<v Speaker 1>Like he wants to be a professional kidnapper.

01:04:35.110 --> 01:04:35.949
<v Speaker 1>He says at one point.

01:04:36.489 --> 01:04:42.909
<v Speaker 1>And so a lot of these people like set dates with him and they set multiple dates, but nothing ever comes to be.

01:04:43.250 --> 01:04:52.500
<v Speaker 1>Now, there also elements that valet claimed online to have, including like giant ovens, which did not exist in the public laundry room, in the basement of his Queen's apartment building.

01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:55.860
<v Speaker 1>And so people say, well, obviously it's fantasy, right?

01:04:55.860 --> 01:04:58.940
<v Speaker 1>Because he doesn't have a basement or he's building these ovens.

01:04:58.940 --> 01:05:08.889
<v Speaker 1>And these other things that are in this blueprint, valet used police databases to track down women, which many people cite as an act that crosses a line into reality.

01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:16.449
<v Speaker 1>What I watched to research, this is an HBO original documentary called thought crime, like the case of the cannibal cup.

01:05:16.789 --> 01:05:35.039
<v Speaker 1>So if you're interested in that, that's like a great resource there's uh, and I've been trying to find this, but I remember at the time, like in 23rd or routine, when all this was coming out, there's like this very specific type of fantasy, I suppose about like eating people and them still like living in your stomach.

01:05:35.099 --> 01:05:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:05:36.041 --> 01:05:37.280
<v Speaker 1>There's like a name for it.

01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:41.079
<v Speaker 1>And I couldn't find what that wa what it was called.

01:05:41.500 --> 01:05:44.920
<v Speaker 1>But I had like a memory of that from when all of this was kind of coming out in the news,

01:05:45.630 --> 01:05:46.349
<v Speaker 2>I need a shower.

01:05:47.179 --> 01:05:47.469
<v Speaker 2>This

01:05:47.469 --> 01:05:52.550
<v Speaker 1>Is the man who can talk too much about the most horrific things of Greek mythology.

01:05:52.679 --> 01:05:53.989
<v Speaker 1>Can't talk about thought crime.

01:05:54.139 --> 01:05:54.989
<v Speaker 1>It's not real

01:05:56.219 --> 01:05:57.429
<v Speaker 2>It's fantasy it's.

01:05:57.670 --> 01:05:58.630
<v Speaker 2>So is this it's fiction?

01:05:59.420 --> 01:06:02.070
<v Speaker 2>This is a fricking weirdo doing weird things.

01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:02.909
<v Speaker 2>Don't like

01:06:02.909 --> 01:06:07.420
<v Speaker 1>It, the N Y P D my friends I'm certainly not defending him.

01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:10.380
<v Speaker 1>I'm just surprised that you're having such a adverse reaction to it.

01:06:10.849 --> 01:06:11.139
<v Speaker 1>Like

01:06:11.550 --> 01:06:13.659
<v Speaker 2>Don't like it one bit.

01:06:14.219 --> 01:06:14.219
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:06:14.590 --> 01:06:16.340
<v Speaker 2>Let's go back to talking about the, when to go

01:06:16.809 --> 01:06:17.300
<v Speaker 1>Instead.

01:06:17.300 --> 01:06:19.260
<v Speaker 1>We're going to talk about current times.

01:06:19.639 --> 01:06:20.099
<v Speaker 1>Oh, good.

01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:21.460
<v Speaker 2>It's gonna get even more real.

01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:22.219
<v Speaker 1>No.

01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:24.300
<v Speaker 1>Or I think we're through the thick of it here.

01:06:24.860 --> 01:06:24.860
<v Speaker 2>Ugh.

01:06:25.099 --> 01:06:26.059
<v Speaker 2>I hate serial killers.

01:06:26.730 --> 01:06:27.699
<v Speaker 1>He's not a serial killer.

01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:28.820
<v Speaker 1>I, he didn't kill anybody.

01:06:29.139 --> 01:06:29.139
<v Speaker 1>Well,

01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:30.219
<v Speaker 2>I, I don't like him.

01:06:30.590 --> 01:06:31.179
<v Speaker 2>Don't like him

01:06:31.179 --> 01:06:31.380
<v Speaker 1>Either.

01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:36.980
<v Speaker 1>In current times, it's fairly common that a mother will eat the placenta after giving birth.

01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.460
<v Speaker 1>And it actually thought this was interesting.

01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:50.730
<v Speaker 1>The PR this is incredibly new, only popping up after the 1960s or seventies in the United States at a time when home births overseen by midwives were on the rise.

01:06:51.550 --> 01:06:56.969
<v Speaker 1>Why there's like a really big mystery about it, because it's, we know, right.

01:06:56.971 --> 01:07:06.239
<v Speaker 1>That there's, some people believe that there's health benefits, including fighting off postpartum depression and helping boost milk supply, like other benefits Uhhuh.

01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:18.880
<v Speaker 1><affirmative> the first known record of this is from 1973, a letter within a medical journey, um, was printed asking for any information on this new practice, but the origins like are total mystery.

01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:24.869
<v Speaker 1>People don't really know why it started to become a, we know when, but we don't really know what prompted it.

01:07:25.179 --> 01:07:28.989
<v Speaker 1>Also just a note that most other mammals eat the placenta.

01:07:29.690 --> 01:07:38.829
<v Speaker 1>And we should also note that traditional Chinese medicine practices do include the use of the placenta and have recognized the health benefits for a very long time.

01:07:39.369 --> 01:07:41.710
<v Speaker 1>But in not in China, it wasn't specifically used for mother.

01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:43.019
<v Speaker 1>It was just sort of in general.

01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:54.260
<v Speaker 1>So in China, it was used as a remedy for liver or kidney issues or for low energy, perhaps surprisingly cannibalism, as we've said before is not illegal in the us, the UK.

01:07:54.579 --> 01:08:01.739
<v Speaker 1>And most of Europe, of course, murder is illegal, but there are laws in place that criminalize desecrating a corpse.

01:08:02.730 --> 01:08:11.650
<v Speaker 1>But there are also some instances like women eating the placenta, eating amputated limbs or survival cannibalism, where the lines get a bit blurry, eating

01:08:11.719 --> 01:08:12.849
<v Speaker 2>Amputated limbs

01:08:12.849 --> 01:08:13.210
<v Speaker 1>Mm-hmm<affirmative>.

01:08:13.590 --> 01:08:24.479
<v Speaker 1>For example, according to an article from the guardian in 2015, the family of a deceased man was suing a survivor from the same incident, eating their dead family member, right.

01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Like a survival cannibalism thing.

01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:37.399
<v Speaker 1>Um, and this is something that happened has happened multiple times where someone will eat someone else because you know, they're stranded and whatever, but then the family later on will Sue that person kind of a moot point.

01:08:37.880 --> 01:08:40.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess it depends on your religious beliefs though, right?

01:08:40.060 --> 01:08:52.229
<v Speaker 1>If they center around the body and bearing body or something, you know, and they feel like they were robbed of that again, I'm not, I'm not saying, I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with, I'm just, you know, trying to paint the holistic picture.

01:08:53.029 --> 01:08:55.869
<v Speaker 2>I was just reading something on Reddit.

01:08:56.329 --> 01:09:01.510
<v Speaker 2>So you know who, who can say whether this was true or not in the comments section was where this popped up.

01:09:01.899 --> 01:09:06.340
<v Speaker 2>Someone had to have part of their leg amputated from the knee down.

01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:14.420
<v Speaker 2>And so after it was amputated, he had all his friends over and they cooked it and they all ate it.

01:09:14.420 --> 01:09:16.140
<v Speaker 1>Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, it's your leg?

01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:16.699
<v Speaker 1>You know?

01:09:16.859 --> 01:09:17.260
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

01:09:17.409 --> 01:09:17.699
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:09:17.850 --> 01:09:21.260
<v Speaker 1>Like auto cannibalism is something we didn't go into.

01:09:21.261 --> 01:09:31.220
<v Speaker 1>It could be a whole episode, but like the act of eating yourself and there's so many, there's also like some conditions, some mental conditions where that happens a lot where people like eat their tongues.

01:09:31.239 --> 01:09:38.180
<v Speaker 1>For example, what Lesh Nyhan syndrome it's like inherited, it's inherited from ex chromosomes.

01:09:38.369 --> 01:09:42.090
<v Speaker 1>People chew off different parts of their bodies, including their own tongues.

01:09:42.750 --> 01:09:53.890
<v Speaker 1>And there's also like some research around like how addictive it is once you, you know, there like auto cannibalism is like a whole other thing that we could, we're not talk about, but we're not, we're not going we're exhausted.

01:09:54.210 --> 01:09:54.210
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:09:54.430 --> 01:09:55.329
<v Speaker 1>No more, no more.

01:09:56.210 --> 01:09:57.970
<v Speaker 1>I am gonna talk about army hammer though.

01:09:58.449 --> 01:09:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Who is that a person?

01:10:00.020 --> 01:10:00.239
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

01:10:00.859 --> 01:10:14.159
<v Speaker 1>And this is gonna lead perfectly into our pop culture section because he is an American actor he's been seen in many films, including the social network, nocturnal animals, Jay Edgar, man from uncle, call me by her name on the basis of sex.

01:10:14.229 --> 01:10:20.229
<v Speaker 1>Just to name a few screenshots emerged of conversations between the actor and various women online.

01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:31.909
<v Speaker 1>These conversations included talk of rape fantasy and cannibalism, not to equate those things, but that's what it was in one exchange, which makes me laugh.

01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:35.789
<v Speaker 1>Army explicitly says, quote, unquote, I am a hundred percent in cannibal.

01:10:36.470 --> 01:10:37.270
<v Speaker 1>In other messages.

01:10:38.130 --> 01:10:45.659
<v Speaker 1>He says things, quote unquote, I'm thinking about breaking your ribs, which isn't cannibalism, but it is assault.

01:10:46.170 --> 01:10:50.779
<v Speaker 1>Another one says, quote, you just live to obey and be my slave.

01:10:51.039 --> 01:10:54.619
<v Speaker 1>If I wanted to cut off one of your toes and keep it with me in my pocket.

01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:58.699
<v Speaker 1>So I always had a piece of you in my possession, quote, that's weird.

01:10:58.930 --> 01:11:04.850
<v Speaker 1>Some of them are very intense and graphics, some of these conversations, which again, they are all readily available on the internet.

01:11:05.569 --> 01:11:13.569
<v Speaker 1>Um, but he talks a lot about craving the blood of these women, wanting to eat the toes of these women, wanting to eat their feet around the time of that.

01:11:13.569 --> 01:11:20.810
<v Speaker 1>These screenshots started to leak his wife, Elizabeth Chambers, who had been married to him for like 10 years, divorces him.

01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:27.760
<v Speaker 1>And one of his exes came forward and claimed that he quote, likes the idea of skin in his teeth.

01:11:28.119 --> 01:11:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

01:11:29.180 --> 01:11:31.800
<v Speaker 1>And that he wanted to barbecue and eat her.

01:11:32.310 --> 01:11:40.199
<v Speaker 1>Another ex confirmed that she felt he was quote, a hundred percent serious about removing her ribs to consume them quote.

01:11:40.699 --> 01:12:02.699
<v Speaker 1>So this is like very serious because it's a man in power, a very good looking, rich, wealthy, famous man in the us who pursued a lot of women, especially, it seems like through the internet and then kind of put them in these abusive, controlling relationships and threatened to eat them, which is just like so up and weird and bizarre.

01:12:03.010 --> 01:12:06.500
<v Speaker 1>Obviously this is like affecting his ability to get work.

01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:10.380
<v Speaker 1>Now it's, it's been like this huge thing, but oh no, no.

01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:11.220
<v Speaker 1>I'm not upset for him.

01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:15.500
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying that I don't know that he has done, you know, I don't know.

01:12:15.501 --> 01:12:24.539
<v Speaker 1>Again, it's like the question of like fantasy versus reality, I think regardless of whether or not it was fantasy, these women certainly felt controlled and abused by him.

01:12:24.560 --> 01:12:25.460
<v Speaker 1>So it's problematic.

01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:27.060
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like super consensual.

01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:29.300
<v Speaker 1>Do I know that he actually ate women?

01:12:29.539 --> 01:12:31.100
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that I'm shook.

01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:33.420
<v Speaker 1>You don't even know who army hammer is.

01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:33.939
<v Speaker 1>It

01:12:33.939 --> 01:12:34.420
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't matter.

01:12:34.859 --> 01:12:35.819
<v Speaker 2>It's all so gross.

01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:36.850
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

01:12:36.930 --> 01:12:38.329
<v Speaker 1>Suddenly you're very squeamish.

01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:39.050
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:12:39.510 --> 01:12:40.810
<v Speaker 1>So let's wrap things up.

01:12:40.810 --> 01:12:41.250
<v Speaker 1>Shall we?

01:12:41.251 --> 01:12:41.810
<v Speaker 1>Thank God.

01:12:42.310 --> 01:12:52.409
<v Speaker 1>So this has been a bit of a smattering of modern examples, but the list is very long, especially if cannibalistic incidents that I've taken place after the two thousands.

01:12:52.750 --> 01:12:52.970
<v Speaker 1>Why,

01:12:52.970 --> 01:12:54.010
<v Speaker 2>Why are these so popular?

01:12:54.489 --> 01:12:54.930
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

01:12:55.149 --> 01:13:04.479
<v Speaker 1>So the question remains what motivates modern individuals to commit cannibalism, especially outside of ritual or survival cannibalism.

01:13:04.520 --> 01:13:04.640
<v Speaker 1>I,

01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:05.560
<v Speaker 2>I have no idea.

01:13:05.979 --> 01:13:07.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, people are weird.

01:13:07.121 --> 01:13:10.399
<v Speaker 2>People do weird things, but this is something

01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Else.

01:13:11.359 --> 01:13:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Doth who protests too much.

01:13:13.359 --> 01:13:13.359
<v Speaker 1>What,

01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:14.960
<v Speaker 2>What, what, what, what do you mean by that?

01:13:15.510 --> 01:13:18.909
<v Speaker 1>Psychologists are a unsure of the

01:13:18.909 --> 01:13:19.229
<v Speaker 2>Motivations.

01:13:19.510 --> 01:13:19.869
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you think,

01:13:20.529 --> 01:13:21.750
<v Speaker 1>But here's some speculation.

01:13:23.260 --> 01:13:29.670
<v Speaker 1>Cannibalism is not listed in the DSM, which is the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders.

01:13:30.250 --> 01:13:34.149
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of people believe that there's some relation to childhood trauma.

01:13:34.850 --> 01:13:39.020
<v Speaker 1>In some cases, it's a symptom of other mental illness like schizophrenia.

01:13:39.079 --> 01:13:45.899
<v Speaker 1>For example, some think that it can stem from early separation anxiety from the mother resulting in aggressive oral behavior.

01:13:46.569 --> 01:13:50.340
<v Speaker 1>Some cases found the culprits were not concerned with societal judgment.

01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:52.539
<v Speaker 1>It was something that they fantasized about.

01:13:52.649 --> 01:14:00.289
<v Speaker 1>Like a narcissistic act, sexual cannibalism can be filed under a similar cycle umbrella as other sex crimes.

01:14:00.649 --> 01:14:05.649
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you're gonna be accountable, you better not care what people think.

01:14:06.729 --> 01:14:06.729
<v Speaker 2><laugh>.

01:14:07.850 --> 01:14:09.729
<v Speaker 1>I mean, unless you're trying to do it in secret.

01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:11.010
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Some cases are driven by drug use or hallucination the famous incident in Florida where one man ate another man's face, for example, in the two thousands.

01:14:20.739 --> 01:14:21.399
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I remember

01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:22.359
<v Speaker 2>That with CRO aile.

01:14:22.550 --> 01:14:25.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that man was believed to be on bath salts at the time.

01:14:25.500 --> 01:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, sorry.

01:14:26.069 --> 01:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Bath salts.

01:14:26.801 --> 01:14:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Not CRO aile what's CRO aile CRO a deal is like another super cheap to manufacture crazy powerful drug.

01:14:36.270 --> 01:14:37.760
<v Speaker 2>That just makes you go crazy.

01:14:38.199 --> 01:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Zombie-like mm.

01:14:39.430 --> 01:14:43.590
<v Speaker 2>Think that's what it does, but it's called CRO a deal because it up your skin super bad.

01:14:43.619 --> 01:14:48.189
<v Speaker 2>Like almost instantly that makes like your skin all scaly and flaky and fall off.

01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:48.829
<v Speaker 2>Yikes.

01:14:49.170 --> 01:14:49.909
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you're right.

01:14:49.911 --> 01:14:52.670
<v Speaker 2>It was bath salts because they're like, oh my God, he's a zombie.

01:14:52.779 --> 01:14:53.069
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:14:53.949 --> 01:15:05.579
<v Speaker 1>Muis our German friend said that his cannibalism friend was what we, we have a little bit of her personality here so that his cannibalism was an effort to help him fulfill a loneliness.

01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:10.539
<v Speaker 1>He felt by never having a brother, someone that was quote unquote part of him.

01:15:11.619 --> 01:15:19.979
<v Speaker 1>Um, I'm gonna take that with a grain of salts, considering the fact that he ate this man's penis, which is not like a super brotherly act<laugh>.

01:15:21.960 --> 01:15:33.619
<v Speaker 1>And again, I'm not an expert or a psychologist, but I assume in order to commit cannibalism outside of ritualistic or survival cannibalism, there's a very complex combination of mental illnesses and other factors.

01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:34.770
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:40.329
<v Speaker 2>Just tell me now at any point, are we gonna talk more about the biting off of a penis

01:15:41.020 --> 01:15:41.850
<v Speaker 1>We're done with that?

01:15:42.680 --> 01:15:42.970
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:15:43.630 --> 01:15:44.449
<v Speaker 2>That's for the best.

01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:45.050
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:15:45.409 --> 01:15:48.569
<v Speaker 2>Cause I'll tell you, I figured it out that that was the turning point for me.

01:15:49.189 --> 01:15:53.689
<v Speaker 1>And also just remember everyone that eating humans can cause a fatal brain disease.

01:15:53.750 --> 01:16:03.000
<v Speaker 1>So don't do you it, and on a final note, before we switch gears and discuss cannibalism and pop culture, I think we have to answer the question.

01:16:04.189 --> 01:16:05.640
<v Speaker 1>What do humans taste like?

01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:16.630
<v Speaker 1>The answer that comes up again and again, and again is pork quoting MUEs quote, the flesh tastes like pork a little bit more bitter, stronger.

01:16:17.050 --> 01:16:18.590
<v Speaker 1>It tastes quite good end.

01:16:19.930 --> 01:16:29.350
<v Speaker 2>So here's a morbid fact firefighters when doing cookouts it's super, super taboo for, to ever do pork.

01:16:29.949 --> 01:16:33.350
<v Speaker 2>Cuz it's the same smell as when people burn alive.

01:16:33.770 --> 01:16:33.989
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

01:16:33.990 --> 01:16:34.989
<v Speaker 1>That's very morbid.

01:16:35.430 --> 01:16:35.430
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

01:16:35.750 --> 01:16:39.260
<v Speaker 1>And thought I was gonna end the episode on a morbid note and then you just won up to me.

01:16:39.710 --> 01:16:40.060
<v Speaker 1>Sorry.

01:16:40.649 --> 01:16:41.140
<v Speaker 2>It's okay.

01:16:41.659 --> 01:16:42.899
<v Speaker 2>Learn that from a firefighter friend.

01:16:43.619 --> 01:16:43.739
<v Speaker 1>All right.

01:16:43.740 --> 01:16:46.380
<v Speaker 1>Shall we talk about some cannibalism movies?

01:16:46.970 --> 01:16:47.260
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:16:47.460 --> 01:16:49.500
<v Speaker 2>I would like to get back into the realm of fiction please.

01:16:49.689 --> 01:16:50.300
<v Speaker 1>Here we go.

01:16:51.010 --> 01:16:55.020
<v Speaker 1>It's very clear to see how, what was once a normal act.

01:16:55.359 --> 01:17:01.210
<v Speaker 1>In fact, an act that predates all human societies has now become a horror trope.

01:17:01.211 --> 01:17:01.409
<v Speaker 1>Right?

01:17:01.460 --> 01:17:02.569
<v Speaker 1>We've we've covered this.

01:17:02.570 --> 01:17:10.130
<v Speaker 1>We've talked about the shift in social acceptance and survival to taboo, especially thanks to Homer and Christopher Columbus.

01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:13.090
<v Speaker 1>Cannibalism has become the ultimate sin.

01:17:13.159 --> 01:17:14.130
<v Speaker 1>What did Homer do?

01:17:14.550 --> 01:17:15.850
<v Speaker 1>He talks about cannibalism a lot.

01:17:16.289 --> 01:17:16.289
<v Speaker 1>He

01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Does

01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:18.479
<v Speaker 1>He on around the

01:17:18.479 --> 01:17:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Radio Homer on the radio Homer 1 0 1.

01:17:22.010 --> 01:17:23.680
<v Speaker 2>We're talking Homer, the epic poet.

01:17:23.869 --> 01:17:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Correct.

01:17:25.050 --> 01:17:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk first about silence of the lambs from 1991.

01:17:28.960 --> 01:17:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Great.

01:17:28.961 --> 01:17:30.199
<v Speaker 1>One of the most great movie.

01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

01:17:31.119 --> 01:17:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Excellent film.

01:17:31.520 --> 01:17:37.750
<v Speaker 1>One of the most famous films centered around cannibalism directed by Jonathan Dem, starring Jodi FAS, sir.

01:17:37.751 --> 01:17:46.229
<v Speaker 1>Anthony Hopkins, the film inspired a large number of sequels, including Hannibal red, dragon and Hannibal rising and the whole TV

01:17:46.229 --> 01:17:46.590
<v Speaker 2>Series.

01:17:46.779 --> 01:17:47.270
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

01:17:48.380 --> 01:17:55.829
<v Speaker 2>Also one of the coolest movie villains mm-hmm<affirmative> you know, you just it's the, I mean, I'm sure there are.

01:17:55.829 --> 01:17:57.109
<v Speaker 1>So you think Hannibal lectures.

01:17:57.110 --> 01:17:57.390
<v Speaker 1>Cool.

01:17:57.569 --> 01:17:57.789
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

01:17:58.300 --> 01:17:59.979
<v Speaker 1>You think our episode freaked you out?

01:18:00.029 --> 01:18:00.699
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

01:18:01.010 --> 01:18:01.300
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

01:18:01.569 --> 01:18:03.060
<v Speaker 1>Just wanted to say that out loud.

01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:03.460
<v Speaker 1>You

01:18:03.460 --> 01:18:09.100
<v Speaker 2>Don't see Hannibal meeting up with a guy and biting off his

01:18:09.289 --> 01:18:09.579
<v Speaker 1>Wier.

01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:11.100
<v Speaker 1>He am sure he did.

01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:12.100
<v Speaker 1>He was

01:18:12.159 --> 01:18:16.819
<v Speaker 2>Always, he had this classy act to him, you know, elitism.

01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:17.699
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

01:18:17.869 --> 01:18:18.899
<v Speaker 2>Where things

01:18:18.899 --> 01:18:23.899
<v Speaker 1>Would be done with surgical precision, not biting it's too chewy.

01:18:24.180 --> 01:18:26.500
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you still ate it regardless of how he come on.

01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:32.300
<v Speaker 1>We also have a little film from 1977 called the Hills, have I?

01:18:33.310 --> 01:18:37.449
<v Speaker 1>And the 2007 remake and of course many sequels and remakes.

01:18:37.451 --> 01:18:39.770
<v Speaker 1>Oh it's 2006, 2006 remake.

01:18:39.770 --> 01:18:39.930
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:40.529
<v Speaker 1>I've

01:18:40.529 --> 01:18:43.569
<v Speaker 2>Only seen the remake and I watched it just recently for the first time.

01:18:43.850 --> 01:18:43.850
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

01:18:44.079 --> 01:18:48.369
<v Speaker 2>When that movie first came out, everyone was like, wow, you can't see that movie.

01:18:49.010 --> 01:18:50.090
<v Speaker 2><laugh> it's too scary.

01:18:50.609 --> 01:18:50.609
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:18:51.289 --> 01:18:52.770
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's, it's intense.

01:18:54.029 --> 01:18:58.239
<v Speaker 2>It's intense, but only select parts.

01:18:58.680 --> 01:18:59.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:11.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's not, it's one of those films that I don't feel the need to, like one of those horror franchises that I've seen here and there, like I've seen a few of the films, but I'm not really called to me.

01:19:11.001 --> 01:19:14.069
<v Speaker 1>It's like, I guess mentally I equate it to like a zombie film.

01:19:14.300 --> 01:19:14.590
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:16.670
<v Speaker 1>Where it's just like, yeah, I get it.

01:19:16.789 --> 01:19:21.229
<v Speaker 1>I can respect it for what it is, but it's, it's just not my cup of horror teeth.

01:19:21.300 --> 01:19:24.189
<v Speaker 1>It's too graphic too raw for me.

01:19:24.729 --> 01:19:25.430
<v Speaker 1>So like sure.

01:19:25.510 --> 01:19:25.909
<v Speaker 1>I get it.

01:19:25.911 --> 01:19:27.949
<v Speaker 1>And like the whole thing isn't like wildly insane.

01:19:27.970 --> 01:19:30.350
<v Speaker 1>But the parts that are insane are like really upsetting.

01:19:31.710 --> 01:19:35.939
<v Speaker 2>I was expecting this movie to be right up there with last house on the left.

01:19:36.250 --> 01:19:36.539
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:19:36.810 --> 01:19:37.220
<v Speaker 2>It's not,

01:19:37.970 --> 01:19:41.420
<v Speaker 1>It's still, it gives me a lot of similar anxiety watching it.

01:19:42.180 --> 01:19:45.539
<v Speaker 1>Uh, it's a lot of like women being held down, you know, it's just like, uh, I don't like it.

01:19:45.659 --> 01:19:45.659
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:19:46.140 --> 01:19:49.300
<v Speaker 2>And in any movie where things get a little rapy yeah, that's gross.

01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:49.899
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

01:19:49.900 --> 01:19:50.380
<v Speaker 2>There's

01:19:50.510 --> 01:19:51.060
<v Speaker 1>Don't need it.

01:19:51.399 --> 01:19:51.619
<v Speaker 1>No.

01:19:51.621 --> 01:19:58.970
<v Speaker 1>Which I think leads us perfectly into the next film from three years earlier, Texas chainsaw massacre, gross movie

01:19:59.119 --> 01:19:59.689
<v Speaker 2>Next, please.

01:19:59.930 --> 01:20:00.050
<v Speaker 2>A

01:20:00.050 --> 01:20:05.289
<v Speaker 1>Film that AAL and I had to stop and restart several times because of how graphic it was.

01:20:05.829 --> 01:20:08.689
<v Speaker 2>If we were to rewatch it, I think we'd be fine.

01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:10.250
<v Speaker 1>It's just, well, now we know what happens.

01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:10.890
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

01:20:11.039 --> 01:20:12.850
<v Speaker 2>It's the, I mean, great.

01:20:13.850 --> 01:20:14.689
<v Speaker 2>Uh, what's

01:20:15.359 --> 01:20:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Effective filmmaking,

01:20:16.310 --> 01:20:17.479
<v Speaker 2>Effective filmmaking.

01:20:17.480 --> 01:20:18.359
<v Speaker 2>That's a great term.

01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Uh, it really does the job of making you uncomfortable.

01:20:22.710 --> 01:20:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:36.149
<v Speaker 2>Watching again, knowing exactly how far things escalate, which isn't as bad as you think they do a great job of making you think it's gonna just get worse and, and worse.

01:20:36.390 --> 01:20:36.630
<v Speaker 2>I mean

01:20:36.829 --> 01:20:40.510
<v Speaker 1>They, the end Swearer alert with a human flesh dinner party.

01:20:40.970 --> 01:20:41.350
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

01:20:41.350 --> 01:20:42.350
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's a gross movie,

01:20:43.010 --> 01:20:44.590
<v Speaker 1>But I think I will say about that film.

01:20:45.170 --> 01:20:46.430
<v Speaker 1>The hardest part for me.

01:20:46.430 --> 01:20:46.670
<v Speaker 1>I dunno.

01:20:46.710 --> 01:20:48.630
<v Speaker 1>Know what this says about me is like the first half.

01:20:48.810 --> 01:20:49.189
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

01:20:50.010 --> 01:20:59.300
<v Speaker 1>Not necessarily the like graphic conclusions because the first half are, is really slow and court and weirdly, I don't know.

01:20:59.301 --> 01:21:00.060
<v Speaker 1>There's something about it.

01:21:00.060 --> 01:21:02.460
<v Speaker 1>That was just really hard for us to like get through it.

01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:02.739
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

01:21:03.020 --> 01:21:04.779
<v Speaker 2>It, it just really gets you right at the bones.

01:21:04.810 --> 01:21:05.100
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:21:05.619 --> 01:21:06.020
<v Speaker 1>1980.

01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:20.100
<v Speaker 1>We have a film called cannibal Holocaust and then 1993, not a horror film, but a film called alive, which we talked about before, which is the fictionalized version of the rugby plane crash.

01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:21.060
<v Speaker 1>That's

01:21:21.060 --> 01:21:21.899
<v Speaker 2>Cannibal Holocaust.

01:21:22.159 --> 01:21:22.859
<v Speaker 1>No alive.

01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:24.180
<v Speaker 2>Oh, what's cannibal Holocaust.

01:21:24.369 --> 01:21:24.939
<v Speaker 2>Just a movie.

01:21:25.010 --> 01:21:25.659
<v Speaker 1>It's a horror film.

01:21:25.859 --> 01:21:25.859
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:21:25.890 --> 01:21:26.180
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:21:26.500 --> 01:21:28.859
<v Speaker 2>I, I did not do my homework for this one.

01:21:29.380 --> 01:21:29.380
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:33.890
<v Speaker 2>So, which is probably for the best, cause I don't like cannibalism.

01:21:34.750 --> 01:21:38.010
<v Speaker 1>We have RAVs from 1999, which is the, when to go film.

01:21:38.369 --> 01:21:40.210
<v Speaker 2>Excellent film, great cannibal movie.

01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:48.010
<v Speaker 1>There's also wrong turn from 2003, which has multiple sequels, which I have not watched that one, this

01:21:48.060 --> 01:21:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Movie and the Hills have eyes and tech, CI chainsaw are all a sub genre.

01:21:54.739 --> 01:22:00.920
<v Speaker 2>That's been on our list that I've just been a little too squeamish to tackle and that's hillbilly horror.

01:22:02.489 --> 01:22:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Maybe we'll do it someday.

01:22:04.189 --> 01:22:05.920
<v Speaker 2>It's just really not my cup of tea.

01:22:06.090 --> 01:22:08.159
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we can bring someone on to do it for us.

01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

01:22:09.439 --> 01:22:09.960
<v Speaker 2>We'll outsource it.

01:22:10.189 --> 01:22:10.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:22:11.390 --> 01:22:14.270
<v Speaker 1>There's a dark comedy from 1989 called parents.

01:22:15.020 --> 01:22:17.909
<v Speaker 1>There's also of course like things like the Santa Clara diet.

01:22:17.911 --> 01:22:18.229
<v Speaker 1>Right.

01:22:18.230 --> 01:22:29.989
<v Speaker 1>Which is like a modern drew Barry more show about cannibalism of course, in the heart of the sea from 2015, which we talk about a lot in part one, which is, I suppose, historic survival, cannibalism, not horror.

01:22:30.899 --> 01:22:31.390
<v Speaker 1>There's

01:22:31.390 --> 01:22:31.670
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:22:32.180 --> 01:22:40.100
<v Speaker 2>A great example of survival cannibalism and you're like, you're cheering for them to like do what they gotta do.

01:22:40.529 --> 01:22:40.819
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:22:41.090 --> 01:22:42.859
<v Speaker 2>It's a just yeah.

01:22:42.869 --> 01:22:44.260
<v Speaker 2>Great, great, great film.

01:22:44.569 --> 01:22:46.659
<v Speaker 2>Very more effective filmmaking.

01:22:46.810 --> 01:22:47.100
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

01:22:47.329 --> 01:22:51.180
<v Speaker 1>There's a film with fairly low ratings from 2018 called the farm.

01:22:51.859 --> 01:22:52.260
<v Speaker 1>Is this your movie?

01:22:52.829 --> 01:22:55.050
<v Speaker 1>No, my movie man meet from 2018.

01:22:55.350 --> 01:22:56.449
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember making that movie?

01:22:57.310 --> 01:22:57.810
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

01:22:58.119 --> 01:22:58.890
<v Speaker 1>It's on, on YouTube.

01:22:58.909 --> 01:22:59.529
<v Speaker 1>You can watch it.

01:22:59.930 --> 01:23:00.090
<v Speaker 1>Everyone.

01:23:00.090 --> 01:23:00.850
<v Speaker 2>Check out man.

01:23:01.090 --> 01:23:01.810
<v Speaker 2>Meet 2018.

01:23:02.199 --> 01:23:04.529
<v Speaker 2>What happens when you Google man meet 2018?

01:23:05.010 --> 01:23:05.729
<v Speaker 1>Well, you'll tell

01:23:05.729 --> 01:23:07.050
<v Speaker 2>Me nothing,

01:23:07.869 --> 01:23:12.850
<v Speaker 1>But if you go to the lunatics project on YouTube, you can probably search more effectively there.

01:23:13.739 --> 01:23:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know what?

01:23:15.149 --> 01:23:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Just don't Google man meet.

01:23:17.989 --> 01:23:18.279
<v Speaker 2>It's

01:23:18.279 --> 01:23:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Not great.

01:23:19.359 --> 01:23:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't assume that it was.

01:23:20.710 --> 01:23:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah,

01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Don't do it.

01:23:21.949 --> 01:23:26.920
<v Speaker 1>There's a little film called platform, which we've talked about before on the podcast.

01:23:27.420 --> 01:23:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

01:23:28.220 --> 01:23:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a

01:23:28.840 --> 01:23:29.159
<v Speaker 1>Good one.

01:23:29.390 --> 01:23:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:30.600
<v Speaker 1>That's a really good film.

01:23:30.680 --> 01:23:36.590
<v Speaker 1>I think it's on, it's on streaming and maybe on Netflix, it's a very, uh, graphic film.

01:23:36.899 --> 01:23:38.670
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of social commentary.

01:23:38.729 --> 01:23:50.350
<v Speaker 1>The general idea is that you wake up and you are in this huge like kind of like almost like a cement garage parking garage or something, a tower there's like hundreds of levels.

01:23:51.250 --> 01:23:55.500
<v Speaker 1>And at the top level, there's this feast that is, that is created.

01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:58.300
<v Speaker 1>And the, the platform slowly drops to each level.

01:23:58.301 --> 01:23:58.579
<v Speaker 1>Right.

01:23:58.600 --> 01:24:01.539
<v Speaker 1>So every so often you're randomly assigned to a new level.

01:24:01.541 --> 01:24:09.060
<v Speaker 1>There's two people on a level and it's all about like capitalism and consumerism and society and all of these things.

01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:10.819
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, trickle down doesn't work.

01:24:10.820 --> 01:24:11.100
<v Speaker 1>Right?

01:24:11.100 --> 01:24:15.380
<v Speaker 1>The idea is that yes, as the platform goes down and down, people eat more and more.

01:24:15.381 --> 01:24:18.140
<v Speaker 1>And one of the time it gets to the bottom, which is like hundreds of levels.

01:24:18.560 --> 01:24:21.579
<v Speaker 1>People are starving, they're cannibalizing each other.

01:24:21.689 --> 01:24:22.779
<v Speaker 1>They're killing each other.

01:24:23.569 --> 01:24:27.779
<v Speaker 1>It's definitely a film worth watching, but I will caveat that it's extremely graphic.

01:24:28.970 --> 01:24:29.529
<v Speaker 2>Uh, yes.

01:24:29.850 --> 01:24:33.489
<v Speaker 2>Compared to other films on this list, it is not compared,

01:24:33.590 --> 01:24:38.170
<v Speaker 1>But it's a modern, like to me it's more graphic than Texas chainsaw because it's modern and new.

01:24:38.189 --> 01:24:40.250
<v Speaker 1>And so things are more realistic feeling.

01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:41.569
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

01:24:41.570 --> 01:24:42.050
<v Speaker 2>That's fair.

01:24:42.720 --> 01:24:43.010
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:24:43.011 --> 01:24:43.810
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's a tough list.

01:24:44.170 --> 01:24:50.199
<v Speaker 2><laugh> you know, a, as someone who is apparently squeamish about cannibalism, this one didn't get to me.

01:24:50.630 --> 01:24:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:24:51.039 --> 01:24:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I, I really enjoyed

01:24:51.880 --> 01:24:52.199
<v Speaker 1>That movie.

01:24:52.470 --> 01:24:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:54.920
<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed it, but it definitely affected me.

01:24:54.960 --> 01:24:57.039
<v Speaker 1>I felt like a little uneasy after.

01:24:57.310 --> 01:24:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

01:24:58.859 --> 01:25:07.159
<v Speaker 1>And then we have a 20, 21 series, Showtime yellow jackets, which we have watched the pilot of, we

01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:11.630
<v Speaker 2>Watched the pilot and there's no cannibalism, wait, there is there's there's implied Cann.

01:25:11.810 --> 01:25:12.029
<v Speaker 2>No,

01:25:12.029 --> 01:25:13.829
<v Speaker 1>There's you see them cook the meat.

01:25:14.010 --> 01:25:14.829
<v Speaker 1>You see, you

01:25:14.850 --> 01:25:18.510
<v Speaker 2>See them kill a girl mm-hmm<affirmative> and then you see meat cooking.

01:25:19.010 --> 01:25:20.109
<v Speaker 2>You can extrapolate,

01:25:20.819 --> 01:25:24.229
<v Speaker 1>It's gonna be survival cannibalism, but so far we've really enjoyed it.

01:25:24.230 --> 01:25:26.750
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like a teen drama meat, survival cannibalism.

01:25:26.770 --> 01:25:29.270
<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of like an intense combination of things.

01:25:29.409 --> 01:25:30.140
<v Speaker 1>It was per pretty

01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:30.380
<v Speaker 2>Cool.

01:25:30.779 --> 01:25:30.779
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:25:30.939 --> 01:25:31.140
<v Speaker 2>It's the

01:25:31.539 --> 01:25:31.539
<v Speaker 1>Pilots.

01:25:31.541 --> 01:25:31.659
<v Speaker 1>Good.

01:25:31.661 --> 01:25:31.779
<v Speaker 1>At least.

01:25:31.939 --> 01:25:31.979
<v Speaker 1>It's cool.

01:25:31.980 --> 01:25:32.619
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna keep watching.

01:25:33.100 --> 01:25:39.380
<v Speaker 1>I also wanna caveat that there is a plane crash scene when spoiler they crash.

01:25:39.381 --> 01:25:39.619
<v Speaker 1>Right.

01:25:39.859 --> 01:25:52.569
<v Speaker 1>The survival cannibalism kicks in, but the plane crash scene to me was like in one of the most horrifying plane crash scenes I've ever seen, like it made you really feel like this is what it would feel like if a plane crashed.

01:25:52.710 --> 01:25:59.810
<v Speaker 1>So if that's something that's like really scary to you, I think when you kind of see where that's the story's going, you can just fast forward through that.

01:26:00.010 --> 01:26:02.810
<v Speaker 1>Cuz it was like a little off putting for me that

01:26:02.840 --> 01:26:03.890
<v Speaker 2>That didn't get to me.

01:26:03.949 --> 01:26:06.569
<v Speaker 2>But everyone, everyone has their own triggers.

01:26:06.909 --> 01:26:07.409
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

01:26:08.220 --> 01:26:14.560
<v Speaker 1>We're all individuals here that is, is a lot of cannibals and films.

01:26:14.560 --> 01:26:16.800
<v Speaker 1>There's like an endless amount, but too much.

01:26:17.060 --> 01:26:19.239
<v Speaker 1>But that's, that's kind of like a holistic look.

01:26:19.239 --> 01:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:26:19.520 --> 01:26:23.359
<v Speaker 2>That's just like the once over there's I guarantee you there's a thousand more.

01:26:23.739 --> 01:26:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

01:26:24.060 --> 01:26:29.319
<v Speaker 1>So here are three more that I'm going to challenge listeners to watch this week.

01:26:29.539 --> 01:26:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Why?

01:26:29.789 --> 01:26:35.109
<v Speaker 1>Because next week I will be joined by Sarah Quincy to talk about them in depth.

01:26:35.550 --> 01:26:35.550
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

01:26:35.649 --> 01:26:38.430
<v Speaker 1>So you don't have to watch these films ahead of time.

01:26:38.529 --> 01:26:56.939
<v Speaker 1>But if you happen to watch them or some of them this week, you will maybe be a little more prepared to absorb the conversation next week, which is going to be all about cannibalism and feminism done, done, done really about female cannibals and how they're portrayed in cinema, specifically French cinema.

01:26:57.680 --> 01:27:03.979
<v Speaker 1>So these are three French films, horror films that center around female cannibalism.

01:27:04.619 --> 01:27:09.739
<v Speaker 1>Interesting, very different from each other raw trouble every day and in my skin.

01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:13.939
<v Speaker 1>So again, if you wanna watch any of those this week, that's what we're gonna focus on next week.

01:27:13.940 --> 01:27:35.010
<v Speaker 1>Again, we're also gonna talk about a lot of other films that feature female cannibalism that we didn't talk about today, Uhhuh, but the main crux of the discussion is gonna center around raw trouble every day and in my skin and in, if you have only time to watch one cannibalism film in general, one of my favorite horror films of all time is raw.

01:27:36.609 --> 01:27:36.609
<v Speaker 1>Raw.

01:27:36.989 --> 01:27:37.210
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

01:27:37.520 --> 01:27:37.970
<v Speaker 1>Have we?

01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:40.930
<v Speaker 1>It's your one of your favorite and we've never seen it together.

01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:43.329
<v Speaker 1>I've seen it many times, but we've never seen it together.

01:27:43.550 --> 01:27:46.609
<v Speaker 1>No, it's about cannibals mm-hmm<affirmative> and you like it.

01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:47.319
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

01:27:47.779 --> 01:27:53.319
<v Speaker 1>Is it as good as the fraud prints better?

01:27:54.060 --> 01:27:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

01:27:54.310 --> 01:27:55.439
<v Speaker 1>Different, different.

01:27:55.440 --> 01:27:56.520
<v Speaker 1>It fills a different void.

01:27:57.079 --> 01:27:57.359
<v Speaker 1>Interesting.

01:27:57.949 --> 01:27:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

01:27:58.260 --> 01:28:05.119
<v Speaker 1>So again, if you only have time to watch one go with raw, but trouble every day and in my skin, the other two that we're gonna dive into next week.

01:28:05.310 --> 01:28:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

01:28:06.220 --> 01:28:09.470
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that is the op homework assignment for next week.

01:28:10.430 --> 01:28:16.029
<v Speaker 1>I know that this cannibalism series was dark in a lot of places, but it gotta be good.

01:28:16.420 --> 01:28:20.189
<v Speaker 1>It's it's such a common horror trope that we had to cover at some point.

01:28:20.489 --> 01:28:24.750
<v Speaker 1>And now we have I'm so I was gonna say, I'm so glad it's over, but we have more coming.

01:28:25.130 --> 01:28:26.909
<v Speaker 1>We have more coming, but it's it's okay.

01:28:27.369 --> 01:28:29.619
<v Speaker 1>You know, we got through the real life stuff.

01:28:29.680 --> 01:28:31.100
<v Speaker 1>Now the rest is gonna be fiction.

01:28:31.739 --> 01:28:33.539
<v Speaker 1>I yeah, much better, much better.

01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:35.180
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, tune in next week.

01:28:35.180 --> 01:28:40.380
<v Speaker 1>Again, it's gonna be a really special discussion with Sarah Quincy about female cannibals in French film.

01:28:41.079 --> 01:28:45.180
<v Speaker 1>And we're gonna have a lunatic library episode all about cannibalism.

01:28:45.640 --> 01:28:46.060
<v Speaker 1>Oh boy.

01:28:46.199 --> 01:28:46.619
<v Speaker 1>Oh boy.

01:28:46.909 --> 01:28:52.529
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys so much for being here always until next time stay spooky, stay safe and we will talk to you soon.

01:28:52.930 --> 01:28:53.329
<v Speaker 1>Bye bye.