How Travis Hunter Looks at Jags OTAs, QB Battles Start and Stefon Diggs

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily where we're out here in California. Just chew it on some bark. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm in my garage. I'm talking to my friend John Shipley, who covers the Jaguars Jaguars on SI. He's gonna talk some Travis Hunter, but he also can talk about the rest of the leagues. So we'll do a little bit of news first, John, how is your Jacksonville off season after Travis Hunter.

00:00:29
Speaker 2: Gave you a little bit of a jolt this year?

00:00:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely did a one to eighty from the expected Mason Graham pick. I think if they had picked Mason Graham, I don't think. I think people would need to be reminded. The Jaguars were more or less in the NFL right now, But the Travis Hunter completely skyrocketed the I suddenly feel like the uh that meme, like I just became important at work and it's it's terrible thing.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: That's exactly what the Travis Hunter pickfields go. No, it's great, it is great.

00:00:57
Speaker 1: Would you be on Would you be on NFL DA in late May? Maybe not the timing otherwise, because honestly, I was just gonna read essentially your analysis of Travis Hunter's time with the Jaguars. So far, They've already done a couple of open OTAs. They had a rookie mini camp, like I've listened to here podcast. People should check out the Jaguars Insider podcast. I was just gotta sort of like copy what you said, Verbain, and was like, no, why don't I actually have John on because to me, Travis Hunter is the most fascinating like news story in the entire NFL this season. But it is late May, and that means all the teams are at OTA's. That's the first time this offseason that's happened. So we got a little bit of news. Most of this is late May news, So we'll kind of go through this quickly, John, but I'll be curious to get your thoughts on some of it.

00:01:43
Speaker 2: Starting we go, we'll go with the Giants.

00:01:45
Speaker 1: I kind of like looking at the quarterback battles right off the top, and Russell Wilson is out there getting most of the reps with the first team with the Giants.

00:01:53
Speaker 2: Not a huge surprise.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: A little bit of a surprise that Malik Neighbors is bothered enough by a toe injury that's bothered him since college that he's been sitting out of practice, So that's somewhat concerning. I noticed Andrew Thomas. They're left tackle still not healthy, not a surprise after he had the foot surgery last offseason. But they are sprinkling in a little Jackson Dart with the first team right off the bat, and a little Jamis Winston with the first team right off the bat, and he threw. Jamis did an interception on his very first throw as a member of the New York Giants, which I love. Any thoughts, I don't know if you know, you dove deep because you have Trevor Lawrence there into how you think Jackson Dart is going to adapt to this situation, and maybe how you think Russell Wilson looks there too.

00:02:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think just like naturally, you know, as a guy who's going to need some time just coming from that style of offense in sec where it's really, you know, a bunch of goballs and RPOs and stuff. It doesn't like very much look like, you know, an NFL offense, but obviously it has a ton of trades.

00:02:52
Speaker 2: It was interesting to me them taking.

00:02:55
Speaker 3: A quarterback in the first round, like I thought it was either okay, take a quarterback in the first round, ride it with the rookie, take your lumps, and maybe be like, hey, if he shows some development, like show to John Maher and the ownership like, hey, we've developed this guy, give us another year to take another crack at it. Or sign some veterans to you know, try to save themselves and you know, throw out some life per servers themselves. They did both, which I don't really know necessarily what to do with that. I don't know what the actual like plan is, but I they had to do one or together, so I guess you know, they'll figure it out as they go along, which kind of seems like the theme of the Giants the Last Coup, right.

00:03:30
Speaker 1: I think the plan is just hope for the best. I saw our friend Mina Kimes check out her podcast too this week. I was on it if you are interested in that. We talked to afc X factors and I saw her throw out there, like what's the over under for Dart starting. I think she said like weeks eight or ten or something like that. I was like, oh, under, Like I might take under week three. It's possible he starts week one. Having watched these rookie like reps. If you're getting first team reps, even if it's just a sprinkling of them right off the bat, you got a chance for it. I know you had to live through the Jaguars giving Gardner Minshew half the reps, like through half of training camp of Trevor Lawrence.

00:04:09
Speaker 2: It was crazy.

00:04:10
Speaker 3: It was like into like the first week or two of preseason where it was starting to get ridiculous, like like Trevor was stwing to like Tevon Austin and practice more than he was like throwing to the starting receivers.

00:04:19
Speaker 2: Quarterback battles in the off season are a good thing, good bit.

00:04:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's they're good to follow, and I do think they'll They'll give Russell Wilson as good a chance as possible to get started with that team, but if it doesn't go well, they'll get rid of them. Also, Dexter Lawrence was out there practicing. I always like checking in on the guys who were hurt at the end of last season. Theo Johnson, who I thought was a really promising rookie tight end for them and had the same foot surgery that Andrew Thomas had. He was out there fully practicing again, So it's just good. It's more like you want to see boxes checked. That's how I think about it. And while we're talking quick quarterbacks, the Browns are giving all four of their quarterbacks reps with the first team offense. Dylan Gabriel Sanders there, they're two mid to late round picks, and then Kenny Pickett got the first rep of practice at least that media was watching, which is interesting.

00:05:09
Speaker 2: And Joe Flacco is another one.

00:05:10
Speaker 1: And I saw that ESPN Cleveland had actually put out the graphic of like all four of their stat lines in OTAs in late May.

00:05:20
Speaker 2: It's not where you want to be as an organization. No.

00:05:24
Speaker 3: Social media has made OTAs such a wild time because, like everybody agrees while they're happening that none of this matters. It's not close to real football. It's mostly just conditioning and like classroom stuff. But at the same time, all of it matters extremely much like Trevor Lawrence, like in the first OTA is the jack said, I think through like two picks, and it like there were people Milton down there was an entire no like some former NFL player like analyzing it, and I'm like, what are we doing here with OTAs anymore. I'm I think the Browns like almost similar to the Giants, like probably ride with like Flacco, picket until things inevitably get pretty bad, and then see what your Gabriel has. I Gabriel like I watched him a little bit in college, just because he was at UCF for like two years. He's now the most notable UCF alumni in the NFL, as he's known around my neighborhood after myself, you know.

00:06:16
Speaker 1: Oh no, I was like, I'm trying to think as UCF produced.

00:06:20
Speaker 3: I once asked, I won't say a player, but I once asked, like a UCF alum who like played for the Jags, like, hey, how were we going to do this weekend? He goes, We like, yeah, I get it. But now I mean the Browns I kind of view like the Giants, like once the veterans kind of all off. I think you probably see her in there.

00:06:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:06:39
Speaker 1: The most interesting thing, and I'm with you on the ot is although some teams you know, treat them differently. Already, the Patriots reporters there are like they're treating ota Is way differently than Belichick did, where it was all about like teaching and just whatever. It's like they're evaluating, they're making him work a little harder. Some some coaches approach it differently than others, but it's still without pads. The only interesting thing to me about the Brown it is just that they're doing this, that they're splitting it up four ways.

00:07:03
Speaker 2: It's a wild way to do things.

00:07:05
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to make some choices evenly, and it really shows to me that developing these rookies is important to them, because it doesn't make that much sense to me that you would have a third and a fifth round pick taking first round first. You know, team reps right away speaking of a high pick Caleb Williams. I just wanted to close the book on the Caleb Williams story. We talked about the Seth Wickersham piece about his father and him considering their options before ultimately deciding they'd be cool with the Bears, and Caleb Williams hadn't spoken to the media about it, and he did speak today and I was impressed. He had a four minute monologue off the top of his head before taking any questions. Where look as a twenty two to twenty three year old kid who has heard everything. It wasn't some prerecorded statement. We'll listen to a little bit of it right now and.

00:07:55
Speaker 4: Then after our camera visit here. It was a deliberate answer and delivered and determined answer that I had is that I wanted to come here, and just like Ben spoke about, obviously, you know, the past years, as everybody knows, it's a fact that quarterback play there hasn't been a four thousand yard past or there's you know, there's all these different things that come up, and so you know, being able to have those thoughts is I think fair to be able to have, you know, good and bad thoughts. But like I said, I came here on a visit and like I said, just like Ben said, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a challenge to be able to to come in here and try and turn around. And that was the main goal of of of of all of that.

00:08:39
Speaker 1: He went on from there before there, and he's in a tough spot as a young kid, but that he was absolutely right that not enough was made about the part of the story where I was like, yeah, once I went to Chicago, I immediately said, yeah, let's do it. And so there's nothing that the city at Chicago should hold against them, and I think their fans will appreciate it.

00:08:57
Speaker 2: Actually thought it was a good job.

00:08:59
Speaker 1: It did not seemed like he had been overly prepped, although obviously like he thought about it, I'm sure over the last week and a half. I mean he even shouted out Kevin O'Connell and was like, yeah, I went there and it was a great visit, and like, look, he just won Coach of the Year.

00:09:12
Speaker 2: Like I was, you know, impressed by it.

00:09:14
Speaker 1: But once once I was here, this is my city, and I still think the story was a story. It was not a non story like the Bears fans.

00:09:22
Speaker 2: We're all saying.

00:09:22
Speaker 1: But I thought he handled it well like you want your franchise quarterback to handle it.

00:09:26
Speaker 3: No one hundred percent of story anytime, like you just you know, since like Eli, we haven't seen any pick really kind of player like exert their influence really on the draft system. So anytime a player is considering it, I think it's notable. Like we didn't see you know, I know there was people trying to generate it, but we didn't see Joe Burrow do it with Cincinnati when it would have made sense. I mean, they still haven't even signed the number seventeenth pick, and he's a defensive end, let alone the number one pick who was a quarterback. The Jaguars were going through a really bad era when Trevor Lawrence was number one pick.

00:09:57
Speaker 2: You didn't see it there.

00:09:58
Speaker 3: He he had kind of a similar meat thing where he did an interview with Sports Illustrated where he was like his dad was like he could retire without winning Super Bowl and he's perfectly content with his life, and people obviously kind of latched onto that. So it's just like a lesson, like when you're in that spot, like anything you say, people are just going to take one way or another regardless of how it's intended. And I don't think he was even wrong, Like, look at how is rookie season win. The Bears have devoted a ton of resources now to make sure they can fix all the issues he was kind of worried about before he got drafted by them.

00:10:31
Speaker 1: It's funny because in the pre draft process there was all this talk about, you know, how is Caleb Williams as a leader and how much does he love ball essentially and how he you know, handles his teammates and everything and I think if you were just grading that since the day that he got drafted, just based on what I've heard from people that are there, just by how his teammates talk about him, and just how I've observed and deal with the media, that's all been an A to A plus. And I think the on the field play was like a Grady on a curve for number one.

00:11:03
Speaker 2: Overall pick was like a B B minus.

00:11:06
Speaker 1: But I think he'll be better this year because he's going to have a lot more support and his old friend Shane Waldron is down with you guys in Jacksonville. You reminded me before the show. I kind of forget about that.

00:11:16
Speaker 3: They swapped Shane Waldron and then Press Taylor went to Chicago. So it's literally just Jags and Bears fans yelling at each other on X every time one of their names comes up.

00:11:26
Speaker 2: It's both funny and pretty unsettling.

00:11:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jacks fans, calm down if you're getting on Shane Waldron. Shane Waldron had a totally solid NFL assistant coaching career before Lanny in Chicago, which is where coaches go to die, and he was like year four of a not so good eber Fluce Era, and I thought, actually did some good things with Gino smith Beck in Seattle, so he's not the play caller anyways. In Jacksonville, the key guy, we'll talk about it in a second, is Liam Cohen.

00:11:53
Speaker 2: Right.

00:11:54
Speaker 3: It was funny at the Combine. At Cohen's podium session, somebody was like, so you hired Shane Waldron you you're worried about the Chicago thing.

00:12:02
Speaker 2: He just goes, no, Yeah, what's he gonna say?

00:12:07
Speaker 1: I wanted to lead the show with Stefan Diggs, and I thought, am I showing my Patriots bias? Or do I think that Stefan Diggs partying on a boat with his girlfriend Carti b and a number of other friends is actually the perfect May story. I'd like to think I would have thought that, regardless. I did not notice in all those videos that were going around on the internet, however, that he appeared to hand a substance, pink substance over to uh to three girls after insisting that he they call him daddy.

00:12:49
Speaker 2: And he did. And that is actually like.

00:12:53
Speaker 1: Something that a reporter would ask Mike Rabel about. While Diggs is not at OTAs, Let's listen to Mike Rabel.

00:12:59
Speaker 5: Well, let's something that we're aware of, and obviously we want to make great decisions on and off the field, and we're hoping that with our time here on the field today and that when we don't have a script and we're on the call up periods, that we're making great decisions. And so the message will be the same for all our players that we were trying to make great decisions, and any conversations that I've had with Stefan or remain between him and I and.

00:13:23
Speaker 2: The club.

00:13:26
Speaker 1: Great decisions, Like I wouldn't have said it was a bad decision to be on that boat and having fun that it seemed it seemed fun the decision where it's getting recorded yea, and then you're passing a suspicious looking powdery subthence is where maybe it's not as great a decision if you had the rank like.

00:13:45
Speaker 3: The thirty two NFL head coaches, and who'd be like the most upset about something like this?

00:13:49
Speaker 2: Les like near the top right like it's it's the perfect storm. He absolutely is.

00:13:55
Speaker 1: And you know, Digg's got a lot of guaranteed money not pasted this year, so it's really like a one year deal and Diggs hasn't been with the team lately at OTAs he's recovering of course from that tour in a cl and yeah video you can check it out.

00:14:12
Speaker 3: And yeah, my wife saw it on TikTok and send it to me. And normally when it gets into her realm and she's saying tiktoks about it, that's normally when it's it's definitely escaped captivity.

00:14:22
Speaker 1: Well, the more the more concerning part, I think for me, just as someone who wants the best for Stefon Diggs' you know, his high profile girlfriend is on that boat, and that that conversation did not seem one like one that or some of the actions going on.

00:14:38
Speaker 2: I'll just I'll just leave it right there.

00:14:41
Speaker 1: Let's move on finally to some more sound. When Terry Bradshaw has a great quote about not wanting Aaron Rodgers on his team, I'm just gonna play it on the show.

00:14:50
Speaker 2: So let's listen. What do you think about possibly Aaron Rodgers being the quarterback? That's a joke. He shouldn't. That is, just to me, is a joke. What are you going to bring him in for one year? You kidding? I mean, that's not the white right no.

00:15:03
Speaker 3: Man, that guy needs to stay in California, and thank you you won't bark.

00:15:09
Speaker 2: And to the gods out there, I love that.

00:15:14
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm chewing on some bark out here. I love chewing on bark. It's just a strange sort of mind blowing combination of things.

00:15:21
Speaker 2: But I agree with Terry Bradshaw on this one. Yeah.

00:15:24
Speaker 3: No, it definitely seems like Terry Bradshaw thinks he has like a California and tied eye hippie point of view on on everything.

00:15:31
Speaker 2: I mean, not wrong with you, and on some bark. I live in Florida. It's practically a delicacy. But I agree.

00:15:37
Speaker 3: I think it's so weird that the Steelers as no organization or like doing this Aaron Rogers dance like it made sense in like March, but like we're in the middle of OTAs now. And I saw a quote today like Mason Rudolph talking about DK Metcalf's athleticism and no offense to Mason Rudolph, but that's a terrible omen for the Steelers, And Mason Rudolph is who you have answering questions about your new receiver, who you just you know, traded.

00:15:59
Speaker 1: For right and DK, by the way, is not even there this week. Mason Ruff said he's been there about half the time, not that that's a big deal. He just got married, Like these are voluntary sessions. But you're absolutely right that it's just awkward and a little embarrassing that ultimately the Steelers kind of prostrated themselves, you know, waiting for Aaron Rodgers to do this where I think they know that he's joining the team sooner than later. A couple other nuggets and then we'll talk to some Jaguars. Just want to mention in terms of OTA absences. I don't track each one like day to day, but Rayshawn Slater, the tackle for the Chargers, TJ. Watt of the Steelers, and Terry McLaurin weren't at practice for their teams, and those are all three guys that I think are looking for new contracts.

00:16:39
Speaker 2: So that's just something to keep an eye on.

00:16:41
Speaker 1: And then Tommy Tremble, if you're familiar with them, the tight end of the Panthers had back surgery. That was news to me and I think to Panthers fans, and they're hoping he's going to be ready for the start of the season. We will be back in just a minute and talk a little Travis Hunter with my friend Job. All right, as always, I took longer than I expected, like flying through some relatively unimportant news.

00:17:13
Speaker 2: I thought we'd spend the whole show on the Jaguars.

00:17:15
Speaker 1: We just do five and but it's one of the things I like about this NFL daily format is I'm into the news almost all times a year, so I do like to keep all the listeners informed.

00:17:26
Speaker 2: Hopefully they enjoyed that part of it too. But yes, John, you're there.

00:17:30
Speaker 1: Travis Hunter, I'm convinced will be in the Jaguars Ring of Honor someday.

00:17:35
Speaker 2: What is it called. I think it's called the Jaguar.

00:17:38
Speaker 3: I want to say it's Ride, okay, and then the cheerleaders are the other one, right.

00:17:44
Speaker 1: It's I remember they had some special name for it. And it's why I've killed the Browns for making this trade, because I do believe in Travis Hunter that much, and I know he's going to have to prove everyone right, but I do think he's a guy that the people are going to remember as a Jaguar for a very long time, and that you have a long term plan for him. And we are at the very very very beginning of that long term plan. But what has like the short term plan looked like practically on a day to day basis.

00:18:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I've seen him now practice three times or once a rookie minting camp and then twice at OTA's. They've held one other rookie mining camp day that media wasn't at, and then two other OTA days. So I've seen him practice three out of the six possible times he's practiced. Every time i've seen him practice, he's been on offense. And I don't know if that's like a concentrated effort or a plan or whatever, but his days on defense have been the days that the media haven't been there. But the days that we've been there, it's not like he's going back and forth or like somebody even was like asking at the first rookie minute camp, he's going to wear like a two like colored like practice jersey where he just flips it inside out like flag football, and it's going to be offensive defense. But Liam Cohen, you know, made it pretty clear yesterday. You know, he was asked there is going to be a time where he's practicing both positions in one practice and he'll probably have to do it during the season because practices are so much shorter than it's also a lot less physical practices because it's mostly game plan stuff and install so but during OTA's during this time, he's not doing like two things at once. So like if he's starting the day at receiver, he's an in the day at receiver, and he's you know, taking one hundred percent of his reps on one side of the ball, whichever one he starts at. But they've said, you know, he's practiced at cornerback a couple of times. I said, he was at cornerback at last Wednesday, so that'd be their third OTA practice, So I guess he went two days at receiver, one day at corner and then yesterday back to wide receiver. So it's pretty clear where they have their focus on. And you know, I'll be honest and like Frank like, it probably is where it deserves to be because you can tell, like from rookie Mini Caampo least, my thought was, he's definitely a guy who needs to be taught the finer points of position. He's never been able to just like solely focus on it. You know, he's always been going both ways. You kind of at Colorado it seemed like they were just letting South less and take over.

00:20:06
Speaker 2: So to me, the plan makes sense.

00:20:08
Speaker 3: But I'm already seeing him honestly making strides in that department, just the little things.

00:20:13
Speaker 1: A wide receiver, Okay, in a lot of ways that could go there. Let's go back to what you said that you're not surprised that they're doing it on offense. Do you mean because that's where he would be more valuable for this Jaguars team, that that just makes sense for him to start his career there, or like that's where he maybe needs more work is wide receiver, So you started there.

00:20:35
Speaker 3: I honestly think it's a little bit of all of it. I think obviously wide receiver versus corner wide receiver, Like just look at the money and the contracts. Wide receivers in a more valuable position right now. You know, Liam Cohen's an offensive minded head coach. They said, like Tony Boselli did like a complete media tour before you know, the draft, and pretty much every time you know, he did an interview, he's like, yeah, we're looking for guys who can score touchdown, So obviously you know they're seeing offenses more valuable. But I also think like the time on task receivers probably where he needs it more than corner. You go back to after they drafted him. James Gladstone even said, you know he's spent he has spent more time at corner in his football career, football life than at wide receiver. So just getting that coaching each and every single day, like he'd probably make a quicker and easier transition to corner than wide receiver. But I also think they see it as intrinsically a more valuable position too.

00:21:27
Speaker 1: See, I really respect your coverage. If you're interested in like learning how a great you know, beat writer covers the team, you should check out John's stuff. And I listened to your pod and was checking out some of the articles, just like wanting you to be irresponsible and tell me how insanely explosive like Hunter has looked, and that he just moves different than everyone else. And you're on there saying, you know, D'ami Brown's probably made more plays than anyone. Diami Brown's been awesome. It's like, no, give me, give me the red meat. Tell me how Travis Hunters looked.

00:21:57
Speaker 3: You See, I remember learning my lesson from Live year from wondering when Ryan Nilson would get head coach interviews.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: So I've pulled back a little bit, but she's crazy. Abrey Brown, you know, and Swartz and home it says look good, but no, Travis Hunter. He has looked good.

00:22:12
Speaker 3: Like from the first rookie minuting camp practice to yesterday, I've seen him make significant strides because you could tell, like his first rookie minute camp practice he was like redoing drills like three or four times because he was like messing it up, and the wide receivers coach had a good minute would correct him and then instead of just going to the back of the line, he'd go right back to the front and restart it. You're not seeing like you saw it a little bit the next OTA practice and then this last one you just didn't see it. So you're clearly seeing him mixed strides as a route runner. He had some reps and I wrote that, you know, he was impressive without the ball in OTA yesterday, and I saw some fantacy account retweet it and be like this is gibberous. I was a wide receiver impressive without the ball, and like that.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: It happens all the time they're out there for like sixty plays a game, Yeah, exactly.

00:22:54
Speaker 3: And there were just a couple of reps and there was one in particular against Jordan Lewis, who one of the NFL's better slot cornerbacks. You know, they sign him to a big deal, but he's been one of the probably a top four to five nickel corners in the NFL the Cowboys last couple of years. And Hunter just the route that he ran, the explosiveness that he had out of his break, Lewis couldn't keep up with him, and he looked like the kind of mood where I'm like, I don't know who can keep up with them. So yeah, he's still warned the little fine details and stuff, but he does move differently. He does move like a free He does have that star power that you can just automatically since wherever he lines up on the field like, okay, this is a dude, he has all of that.

00:23:32
Speaker 2: Right.

00:23:33
Speaker 1: I became so not that I was alone in this, but and awored with him and convinced that he could excel at both positions but at receivers specifically watching him, not because I know enough or thought that he's so refined as a route runner. Just that the guys that do move differently on tape that you can just tell move differently in a way that the game just really slows down for them mentally and physically, where he can control his body in a certain way that few others can. Those guys translate to me, Odell Beckham was was certainly one of them.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: Malik Neighbors I think was one of them.

00:24:11
Speaker 1: Justin Jefferson in the NFL is like the epitome of that.

00:24:15
Speaker 2: And frankly Brian Thomas Jr. Like his teammate, is one of them.

00:24:18
Speaker 1: So I guess I'm curious how you've seen this coaching staff come in and what kind of ideas you think that they have. And I thought it's interesting you said, yeah, like they're an offensive staff. Maybe that's why he's on offense, because I've noticed they've been all about the offense, and like, I get it, offense. I think it is more important or it's a little more stable, and that makes sense that you would start there.

00:24:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more important to them, Like obviously to support Trevor Lawrence, it is to have a good number two cornerback, you know, and that's all things I think like we can agree with and I think the Hunter pick was in a lot of ways, like obviously, you know, adding a guy who they think is an elite guy on and off the field, but also as a way to just help your quarterback because a lot of the things that Tray does well and things that he won't need, you know, years of developing a receiver at or things that Liam Cohen scheme you know, automatically brings in. Like Liam Cohen last year the Buccaneers, they were probably the best screen team in the NFL. And he is a really good scheme in terms of how he dials those things up, you know, for wide receivers, for running backs and Travis Hunter. I think he's going to feast on those this year. I think, you know, if you want a candidate for and I'm a Trevor Lawrence like, I'm a fan of his game.

00:25:28
Speaker 2: I think he's a good quarterback. I think he's better than most people do.

00:25:31
Speaker 3: But I could definitely see, like his production this year, there to be some you know, fugazi fakeness to it, just because they have the pieces between the scheme and the talent. I think to really eat on the easy button kind of things like that, and that's where I think Hunter will make everybody's life kind of easier on offense.

00:25:47
Speaker 1: Okay, so how do you think him and Brian Thomas Junior compliment each other? Because I was so high on Thomas Junior that I've brought it up many times because it ended up being right, unlike most of the takes that I have, where I don't think anyone would have expected him to be a top twenty receiver right out the jump, which I think he was, Like he was already a top fifteen twenty receiver. If you're being conservative as a rookie, how do you like I guess I'm curious just what you saw from him and everything that you think about him, and then how he fits with Hunter and with Liam Cohen and Trevor how because that's to me, the model here is like Cincinnati. It's it's Tampa too, but it's like Cincinnati that like this. These are the three pillars along with the head coach of your organization.

00:26:34
Speaker 3: Now one hundred percent, he is like, like you said, one the pillars there are when a new regime comes in the way I see it is the new regime has their guys, They have the leftover guys from the older regym that they'll kind of pick through, and the Deerman who they want to keep. And then there's a third, much smaller group of guys who are just cornerstones that it doesn't matter who picked them, any regime wants them. And Brian Thomas Jr. Like to me, is right at the top with Trevor Lawrence, Josh einz Allen, Travis Hunter on that list. I think even with the addition of Travis Hunter and you know, even the on my Brown that the passing offense is still going to run through Brian Thomas. I think that, you know, one of the first things Liam Cohen kind of said, you know, to the local media when he got here was like, when he was evaluating receivers, he was like, I probably didn't evaluate Brian Thomas as much as hard as I should have, because obviously Tampa, you know, wasn't looking for a receiver in the first round. But you know, he gave credit to the last jag war staff or how often they put him in the slot and seeing what he could do from there, and he know that, you know, he's a really really good deep threat, but he's more than that and that's what I really noticed from him last year.

00:27:35
Speaker 2: Like obviously he has a crazy speed.

00:27:37
Speaker 3: You know, you can get open deep on anybody to catch radious, but his releases off the line, his body movements for a guy who's you know, that tall and has that frame, just his quick snaps, the way he can get low and break. He can run pretty much, you know, any route, any kind of scheme, whatever you want. He to me has all the tools you're looking for in a number one receiver. Literally the thing he the one thing I think he has to get better at is catch in the football, which is you know, a pretty natural thing.

00:28:03
Speaker 2: Like you know, some of his touchdowns last year he like double clutched it.

00:28:06
Speaker 3: But every I think he has every trade to excel, especially with this new staff scheme, and they absolutely love him. Everybody in that building, like things that do is a star.

00:28:16
Speaker 2: Speed.

00:28:16
Speaker 1: Speed is like at that level is just so hard to find. And we'll see how Diami Brown works out. You know, for the listeners that forget like did not have a lot of production for Washington, but really came on in the playoffs. Had two of the best games of his life in the playoffs, which helped him get like a one year, ten million dollar contract, which in this market is like number three, number four receiver, buddy, And you said he's looked great. And so the three of them, man, they can not just you know, get to the intermediate level really quickly and and have those sort of timing throws that I think Lawrence can be great at. But they can set up each other where one of them, as you mentioned, like Hunter, half his catches last year were just on.

00:28:57
Speaker 2: Those those bubbles and screens and everything.

00:29:00
Speaker 1: Many the guys going deep can open it up for each other on the short stuff.

00:29:04
Speaker 2: They're all pretty versatile. Like I am excited.

00:29:07
Speaker 1: I know, I had you on in August and I was thinking, let the Jaguars. I'm not sure which direction they're gonna go, but I do find them interesting. They were like a boom or bust team, and they definitely busted, but I think they're gotta be more entertaining to watch. How how's the Liam Cohen experience been for you as a as a guy covering the team? Obviously he made you know a lot of waves with his introductory press confidence, but how's it kind of bed since then?

00:29:34
Speaker 4: No?

00:29:35
Speaker 3: I remember sitting there, like you know, in the crowd like ten feet away from the second he said it, I was like, wow, the second I.

00:29:41
Speaker 2: Look at my phone is gonna be absolutely now.

00:29:44
Speaker 3: He's honestly been really good to cover, like from our perspectives so far, Like I know some people will cover the Buccaneers said he was always good in the media. There one thing I'll say about him, honestly is he's incredibly like on the podium, like honest in some of his responses in a way I haven't really seen the coaches I've covered. You know, Doug Morone didn't really say anything Urban Meyer. He not only you know, being honest is not one of his strong suits. He barely knew the roster. He called James Robinson James the running back, Roy Robinson Harris was Roy Roberts. Just stuff like that, so you weren't getting anything from him. Doug Peterson was like the classic like pink by numbers, like NFL coach in terms of like coach speak, like he was just giving you the generic stuff. Lee was very honest, Like he was asked about their rookie running back, you know, baishall tutent after the first OTA's and he like fumbled the ball in his very first rep and somebody asked him after their practice there, like, how's Tutent doing it? He goes, well, he fumbled today. That stood out, and it was just like an honesty to me that, like I'm not like in the past, you know, i'd probably hear him be like, oh, well, you know, he's making progress.

00:30:47
Speaker 2: We'll see how it does.

00:30:48
Speaker 3: So just in terms of getting actual interesting answers and stuff we can write about, he's been good. I think in terms of the x's and o's what they'll bring schematically just to make them a more interesting team, I definitely think that they'll bring because that's been a thing with the Jaguars, like they've had all like the pieces in terms of the players to be an interesting team. The last couple of years, it just never seems like, you know, the front office and coaching staff have pulled their weight in that area too, And now it feels like, you know, they're doing that.

00:31:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see.

00:31:15
Speaker 1: Sometimes the rookie head coaches are like more transparent and they actually come into it wanting to be transparent. Like I don't know what Doug Peterson was like his first year in Philadelphia and then by year three, it's a different state of affairs or by year whatever it was thirty seven for Urban Meyer, I don't know where he was at. What did you say? Telling the truth was not his strong point? That's a that's a very nice way to say. He was like a lying liar who always lied all the time.

00:31:43
Speaker 2: And it's probably the nicest thing I've said about him. Yeah, it didn't seem like.

00:31:49
Speaker 1: There's liam. Yeah, it didn't seem like Urban was too invested in the job.

00:31:55
Speaker 3: That still feels the same dream, that still feels like the weirdest, like nine months a month.

00:32:01
Speaker 1: I'm excited really to just watch Hunter and to hear about, yeah, how these first practices have been. And is interesting to think how they're bringing him along because he's he's in defensive meeting rooms though too, right, So see he's like doubling up with the meetings.

00:32:14
Speaker 2: How does that work? Yeah?

00:32:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, so while he's not like doubling up on the practice shield, they did say he's been doubling up into meetings, which seems immensely difficult, like at least to me, like they I guess from their perspective. And Hunter even said after working Mini CAMPI, He's like, well, the defense is easier to learn than the offense because I guess, you know, like, yeah, there's different calls and stuff, but defense, like like coveragees or coverages.

00:32:37
Speaker 2: You know, not many people are throwing that many twists on it.

00:32:39
Speaker 3: Whereas Liam Cohen, it seems like from everybody's description, like his playbook is vast, and like Frank and steinish.

00:32:47
Speaker 1: That it's just something we literally have never seen before covering in my time covering the league, but in really anyone's time covering the league, because you'd have to go back to like the nineteen fifties and it's just not even close to.

00:33:00
Speaker 2: The same sport.

00:33:02
Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I did notice you had a hot take on your website being very upset it's ranking season, John, and you were not happy that Trayvon Walker was not even listed in PFF's top thirty two. And I don't put too much into the rankings because if you make a ranking, people are obviously going to disagree with some of it, so it happens. But I do think we're entering year four Trayvon Walker. We'll see if he gets a contract extension or not. Where do you see him as this number one overall pick that a lot of people have picked on over the years because he hasn't been as good as Aiden Hutchinson. Where are you in the Trayvon Walker journey and where do you think, like PFF, maybe national people get it wrong if we are.

00:33:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:33:46
Speaker 3: No, I even mentioned in my pod that's coming out tomorrow and that like I'm aware I'm feeding into the machine when I do that, I'm very aware of Fine, that's my desired you know. Effect Travon's a guy who I've honestly come around a decent on. After his rookie season, I was like, like I was like openly going on like radio shows and Jackson'll be like, I don't know if he's ever going to be a double digit sack I like, he'll probably be fine, like get like seven or eight sacks a season, be a good run defender. He's fine, But I didn't think he'd ever be like a double digit sack guy. And then suddenly he's done it in back to back years and I in complete agreement that, like he's not like a top ten, fifteen, probably even top twenty edge. I think like last year for PFF, he was like nineteenth and pressures but fourth and pass rush attempts, So he just doesn't have the efficiency as a pure pressure guy. But I do think we've gotten to a point where he is underrated because I mean, he's at least getting sack production. His productions increased each year he's twenty four. He plays the run well. It seems like for at least what the Jaguars envisioned when they picked him at number one, which was to start slow and then to kind of gradually get better and become a pretty good player. It kind of seems like, you know, like you can question Balky picking him over Hutchinson, but at least Bulkey's evaluation of him and how his career arc would go, it kind of seems like he was right so far. But as long as Aiden Hudgson's around, I do think Trayvon's probably going to be in that weird kind of perception area.

00:35:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the thing is, he's only he's only twenty four, and this idea that he's this incredibly talented physical specimen that's going to get better and better, and he has like he can continue to get better, And here's the real test, Like I'd be very surprised if he didn't get a very good second contract from the Jaguars, and if you had taken him number four overall or number six overall and you're the Jaguars, like he is as good or better than half or more than like the number six seven overall. Guys, he just got taken number one and it was a weird draft and that's not his fault. But considering what a risky pick he was at the time, I'm with you. I think I don't know if he's underrated, but I'm not sure the conventional wisdom has caught up to like he's a plus starter, and half of the top ten picks don't even turn into plus starters. This is how the NFL draft works. So ultimately, like he's been a pretty good pick. He's just not Aiden Hutchinson at least then yet.

00:36:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, like if Aidan Hudgerson wasn't in a draft and Kavon Tibada went number two, like the Trayvon pick, probably like natural nationally looks a lot better.

00:36:15
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Uh, Kavon was in that draft? Is that correct?

00:36:19
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:36:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could.

00:36:19
Speaker 3: I remember I had Trayvon as my I missed on everything. I had Trayvon as my number three edge, I had kaveon number one over Hudgson because I was like, I don't.

00:36:27
Speaker 2: Know about the short on Hutchson guy.

00:36:28
Speaker 3: I was having a bulky moment and then it just blew up on me completely on all levels.

00:36:33
Speaker 1: It's a great shout though, because a lot of draft Twitter agreed with you, and I think I might have had it lined up that way too. At least Thibodeau over Trayvon Walker was totally consensus, and ultimately between those two players, Walker's absolutely.

00:36:50
Speaker 2: Been the better pro.

00:36:51
Speaker 1: So I just you know, we don't we don't talk Jaguars enough on this show. I feel like it's been a nice heavy AFC South week. We talked a lot of Titans on our last show. It's that time of year. We should be giving the AFC South some love. And I'm glad for you, John that you got Travis Hunter because he got married this weekend.

00:37:08
Speaker 2: I'm buying into.

00:37:09
Speaker 1: Just like that he is an intangibly rich guy that's got to change the culture, just because he just seems like such an infectious, like amazing spirit.

00:37:18
Speaker 2: I'm buying into all of that.

00:37:19
Speaker 1: And because of that, John, I think he's going to have this like crazy epic career and you're going to be there to capture all of it. Appreciate you, John, I appreciate you. Man all with check Out John, as I mentioned Jaguars on SI and the Jaguars Insider podcast. We will be back wrapping up the week. It's going to go into your feed Friday morning. That will be with our good friend Patrick claibhann talking about some veterans under a little bit of fire and yeah, like we got a new party boat. We got a party boat story to talk about. You know, football is back.