Will the Phillies Strike Fast This Offseason?

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Speaker 1: Alright, this is Chase that Lee.

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Speaker 2: This is a Philly show.

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Speaker 3: Hello everybody, Ruben Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury, Todd's Lucky brought to you by the foul Territory Network. It's Friday, October twenty fifth, twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Gentlemen, how is it going? Ruben?

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Speaker 1: You are in a c Yes, I am do a little more. Got actually a little boor gotta yeah, gotta had a nice little had a nice little steak, a little wine.

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Speaker 4: It up.

00:00:42
Speaker 5: Way, you gotta do it man, that's what you got. A big stonkey today too.

00:00:47
Speaker 1: Yes, I did? You did? Yeah, of course, James and I were teeing it up.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: How Jim do?

00:00:54
Speaker 1: Jim?

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Speaker 5: How'd you do?

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Speaker 6: Jim's fine, he's fine. He doesn't like his he doesn't like his effort, but he's fine. He doesn't play enough.

00:01:04
Speaker 1: Enough. Yeah, you gotta play more to be you know, score and stuff. But he had some good shots. Jim's he works on his game. You know, he's a dedicated man, dedicates himself.

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Speaker 5: I don't work on it. That's what I work on it, like and I get frustrated.

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Speaker 1: Playing that playing I'm like, dude, you're not supposed to be good.

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Speaker 2: You don't play enough, right exactly, Let's go out.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: There and have some fun. It was a beautiful weather out there at the Old Yard cont Club.

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Speaker 2: Oh, very nice, very nice.

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Speaker 1: This is gonna get you out there, Todd.

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Speaker 2: You know I'll get out and play.

00:01:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a busy man. You gotta get found. He got youngsters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now they're all in school.

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Speaker 3: So now I can maybe sneak away for an afternoon and won't figure that out and tee it up. Yeah, absolutely, guys. You guys both knew Fernando Velnezuela. Jim, you covered him the year that he was with the Phillies right ninety four. And then Rubin you, uh did you play with him?

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Speaker 1: I did Fanda with the Angels organization. Jim chatting about him a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he said he passed away this week. I mean I never I saw him in the Dodgers press box all the time. And for me, I was like six seven years old when Fernando Mania hit LA and hit major League Baseball, and so he's he was kind of a larger than life figure for me. When I saw him, I was like, oh my gosh, that's Fernando Vaz. A little bit, Jim, what did what? What was your experience like covering him?

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Speaker 5: It was a thrill to cover him because it was my first year of covering the Phillies. It was ninety four, and you know, he had been released by the Dodgers. He went through the Angels. He I think he went through the Tigers briefly and maybe on a minor league deal than the Orioles. And it was a strike here ninety four and the Phillies were kind of running out of pitching. They signed him as a free agent in June, and I went back and looked at his day by days, just to refresh my memory. And so he made He actually pitched pretty well for the Phillies. He made seven stars. He pitched in a game, seven starts. He only pitched forty five innings, and he only struck out nineteen batters in forty five innings. But he still had an ERA of three, so he obviously knows how to pitch right. But out of those, he made seven starts for the Phillies, and four of them were quality starts. And his second start with the Phillies was, of all places, in Dodger Stadium against the Dodgers. Wow, and he pitched six innings, two runs. And I was talking to Bob brook Over yesterday. We both covered that game, and we were talking about Fernando, and Bob reminded me that we were kind of looking at him in the clubhouse and walking back upstairs at Dodger Stadium talking about how happy Fernando was to come back to Dodger Stadium and pitch so well. But so it was a thrill to cover because I actually remember Fernando Mania in eighty one, and I also looked up as eighty one. So he he debuts, this is his rookie year. He got a little cup of coffee of the year before pitched and relief. But he debuts in eighty one eight straight complete games, wins them all, eight straight wins, all complete games. Five of them are shutouts. And here's the astounding thing. Fernando pitches five shutouts in his first eight starts of eighty one. The leader in the American League this year had one shutout. There were five shutouts at all in the American League. Five. Fernando had five in his first eight starts in eighty one. Crazy different game, right, but yeah, no doubt. And then you know he passes away. In eighty one, he won the cy Young and the Rookie of the Year, and that was the year the Dodgers and the Yankees played the World Series, right, yeah, and they're going to play in the World Series again. So he was, Like I said, I used to see him a lot at Dodger Stadium back when I was getting a Dodger in the back room there, and a very kind and friendly guy. And you know, it's always sad when we lose these great characters. He was a real character too, because he really galvanized maybe the Latino fans in southern California, and there are a lot of them, and they all came to the stadium, loving, loving on Fernando, and he loved them back with that big smile and that Scroogey. Remember the Scroogie Ruben.

00:05:31
Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes, I do remember it. I never I don't think I ever faced it.

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Speaker 5: You did not.

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Speaker 1: I I don't think I looked it up.

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Speaker 2: You never faced him. You never faced him.

00:05:43
Speaker 1: But I did, uh, I did play with him. So let me just start off with this. So my dad years ago told me that when my dad became the sort of the Latin American coordinator for the Phillies where he was signing guys from Latin American such and my dad signed. It was pretty good, ones like Julio Franco and Juan some Well, and you know Luis Aguayo and guys like that, porfy al To Morano, guys like that. So my dad, my dad had signed quite a few guys. Well, Fernando was a guy since my dad was Mexican, and he had like a sort of a rapport with him. As Fernando was getting ready to sign, and I don't know what he signed for. I don't know what the number was.

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Speaker 6: It was like twenty five or thirty thousand dollars or something like that with the Rodgers.

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Speaker 1: But my dad was begging. I remember him begging.

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Speaker 6: Dallas Green and Pope Paul Owens for like five or ten thousand extra dollars. If we get five or ten thousand dollars, we can outbid these guys.

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Speaker 1: We can get Fernando. I guarantee, I've got a great relationship with him. They wouldn't give it up.

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Speaker 6: Because they hadn't I don't think they had seen him, so it was hard for them to. I mean, looking at his little semi porky, little left hander, you know, who didn't throw really hard, but really knew how to pitch. And I mean, you imagine, I think there was an era when I think John Denny, Steve Carlton, and Valezuela could have been on the same staff.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine that staff in the eighties. But I will say this, I got a chance to play with him when he was sort of trying.

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Speaker 6: To make his comeback. He got hurt after like the ninety season or something. He was trying to make a comeback, and he came back with the Angels, and he was pitching with us in ninety one, I think with the Edmonton Trappers, I do believe, and he came in. I don't know how many starts he had, but I remember standing in the outfield shagging fly balls. But I'm thinking of myself looking at him. And I was left fielder at the time. We had a pretty good We had a pretty good team at the time. We had guys like Lee Stevens and Bobby Rose and Gary Di Sarcina, and we had some pretty good like guys who ended up playing in the major leagues.

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Speaker 1: And I'm looking at this guy, goes Fernando Valenzuela's here playing with us, Like, what in the hellen's going on? I'm like, what are you doing here, dude?

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Speaker 6: And uh, I remember he was a jokester man. He was like a really funny guy and he just messed around all the time.

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Speaker 1: We talked to him. He said, he said, he says to me in Spanish, sare you married? I go no. He said, well you better get married. I said why, I said, I'm young, man, I'm not even in the big leagues. You go, man, it's crazy out there. You got to get married. I said, it's crazy for you, Fernando, because you were from Nandomania. He was funny man. He was just a funny, funny dude and really enjoyed. I mean, he had a great attitude down there. I was like, guys looking around, going, this guy is like Fernando valens Weill and he's pitching for the Edmonton Trappers up here.

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Speaker 3: And I just looked up his numbers room and he was he did not pitch well for Edmonton that no. Coming back from the injury at seven starts seven point one two. Yeah, yeah, Like, what was it like playing in Edmonton?

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Speaker 5: Did you play on Frozen tundra.

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Speaker 6: We started off one season. One year, we started off I think in April. We started off in this in a bit of a snowstorm and we ended the season in a snowstormer.

00:09:15
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my last game, We're like dodging snowflakes to hit. I actually raked in those. I loved hitting that. I had some unbelievable seasons and years there. I mean I loved hitting in the that was Pacific Coast League, but I loved playing up there in Edmonton. Calgary and Vancouver were the three places up there in the north up there in Canada.

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Speaker 5: I mean.

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Speaker 6: It was a meta but you know, we we had played in like Portland and uh.

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Speaker 1: Then down south, you know they had Phoenix, Albuquerque, Albuquerque. I mean there's good. I mean it's some good places to hit. Man. Yeah, you could rate there. You could rank in some of those places. Well, Colorado Springs. I think that's one of the first times I saw and and uh and I think in one time I met Charlie Manuel was managing One year he was managing the team in Portland because he was in Minnesota, And the next.

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Speaker 6: Year I think he was managing the team and Springs Colorado Springs.

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Speaker 5: And that's where he used to when they when.

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Speaker 1: The yeah it was I would hit the home run, he would do the yeah, like like Lee Stephen. Guys on the other team would hit home runs. He'd be like at the top step as he crossed home plate going out. So not the way to hit the ball. God dam and all of his pitchers used to hate him because you know, he used to love guys the log ball. You know, Charlie.

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Speaker 2: Managed the Phillies.

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Speaker 3: He said he would love watching guys hit long bombs.

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Speaker 5: He rest in peace. Fernando, idn't but I do know you were. I do know you were very big on the streets of Edmonton, Reuben.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, it was larger, was large, And no, I will say this, Fernando is a darling about human being.

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Speaker 6: And I saw him. He did not look great when I saw him in LA this year, but but it was great. He was, you know, always with a smile, joking. He was always, you know, needling something. You know, He's always needling and that was his thing.

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Speaker 1: But God bless him, and God bless what he brought to the game, for the for the Mexican fan, for the American fan, and for the Dodgers. It's really special.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, ri Ip Fernando, man, he was, he was awesome. You wonder like just his delivery today. I mean, like some guy came up with that delivery today. I mean, what what would the pitching coaches say in the myor leagues.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was the thing. That was the thing that my dad rolled in the back of his head, you know when I was you know, you start thinking about some of those guys who.

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Speaker 6: Had those great Louis te Juan Marshall and you know, and they all created they all created like this deception.

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Speaker 1: My dad used to get on a soapbox about deception. You have to have a deception when you're on the mound. And he's right, I mean, that's what it's all about. And they did it with their bodies, and they did it with their legs and their kicks. And he was a great one. Man, he's a great one.

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Speaker 5: And Louis, Louis Tian just passed away like ten days ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, another good guy. But rough.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you're right about Louis's deception. I mean that he turned his body and he threw his legs and hips at you. But that that was born after he had heard his arm right, he heard his arm was Cleveland, and then he added a lot of that deception and when he when he got to Boston and what an incredible big game pitcher. Louis Tian was.

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Speaker 6: The other thing I wanted to say about the Fernando that people don't really may not remember is and they talk about his pitching.

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Speaker 1: But the dude was a great athlete. He was like a gold Glove level He's a goal glove level defender. He was a good hitter, and he actually ran pretty good. I mean he looked like he was like really spin lely legged, and he kind of had a funk little body because he had a kind of a chunky barrel, big barrel chest. But he he was a really good athlete. Man. He could do some things. Now.

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Speaker 2: He had ten home runs in the big leagues. Thank you, there you go.

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Speaker 3: Hey Man won some Silver Sluger Awards back in the day when pitchers could win that.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, there you go.

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Speaker 2: One guy pitching right now, Andrew Painter.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to mention him. He is in the Arizona Fall League. Andrew Painter. On Thursday, I pitched three scoreless innings, gave up one hit, struck out three fastball touched ninety nine through thirty two pitches, twenty six for strikes.

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Speaker 2: Guys, you know Andrew Painter on the radar for the Phillies.

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Speaker 3: Of course, Dave Dombrowski mentioned him a couple of weeks ago at the post mortem.

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Speaker 2: But some solid signs from Andrew Painter.

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Speaker 3: I mean just just two three innings, but throwing strikes, throwing.

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Speaker 2: Hard, getting batters out. I guess he's I guess he was.

00:14:00
Speaker 3: Throwing there some some like slider. He's throwing a softer one for strikes and then throwing a harder one to get.

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Speaker 2: Guys to chase.

00:14:07
Speaker 5: And he was.

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Speaker 3: He broke that out tonight with some success. So so that's something some encouraging.

00:14:13
Speaker 5: Encouraging that. I mean, if you'll if you're letting the ball go like that ninety nine, that bodes well in terms of how healthy you are. Now it's about you know, building back up and getting strength and arm strength and building a workload again. Yeah, so it's good to see he's healthy. That Arizona Fall League is really great for pictures like Andrew Painter who have lost time with injury and are now ready to get back on the mound. Uh, you can do it in a competitive situation. You know, a healthy pitcher who's you know, maxed out on his innings in the minor league season, you're not going to send him there. But it's great for those guys who are who are rehabbing and want to do it. You know, a game rep speed.

00:15:03
Speaker 6: Like the controlled environment for pitchers. There's no question there's not really great pitching there. I mean, the guys are most organizations are really scared about, you know, utilizing their pitching. But for guys who are coming back and trying to rehab and get build their arm strength and build some of their confidence, that's good. I prefer to have the position players go and play somewhere winter ball just because they're gonna face better competition as far as the overall pitching is concerned, Like I always try to push guys, and I guess guys like Victorino and Jimmy Rollins and those guys will tell you that that was a great experience for them playing overseas.

00:15:39
Speaker 1: That's a real great development tool. But there's there is a place for that in Arizona, and I think guys obviously feel safer there.

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Speaker 6: They're playing in a safer environment and such. But it's a great sign to see Painter throwing the way he is. You know, people are gonna be clamoring firm Jim. They're gonna be clamoring for me. He's got to be the big leage. He's kind of being the number five starter. He's gotta be there.

00:16:03
Speaker 1: And then and then Dave Embrawski's gonna say the same comment I said about Nolan, say, man, you guys, you you guys don't know what you're doing. You fans don't know shit about it. And then you're gonna get empired too. I'm gonna they're gonna take it. They're gonna take it their time with the man.

00:16:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm very much I'm very much in favor of them taking their time with this kid. And we'll see you like in July whatever, and then watching really closely. Don't feel like you have to be the savior. No, and uh, but he he's special. There's a reason that he is. Uh. He might be their only untouchable in that organization.

00:16:47
Speaker 1: You know, great athlete, great makeup, throws strikes, understands the game, knows what he's gotta do. I saw him for three or four years ago, when he was like nineteen, he looked like he was twenty seven.

00:17:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's the way he handled himself, the pfps, how he handled himself, like every little thing that he did was real professional. At least, it's gonna be a good one man. It's got a chance to be really good.

00:17:10
Speaker 5: We'll be right back.

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00:18:21
Speaker 3: I've been to their stores. They are awesome. Go check them out, Ruben, Jim and out. The other day, we were talking about how, you know, just how important this offseason is.

00:18:29
Speaker 2: We all think Dave Nebrowski's gonna.

00:18:31
Speaker 3: Be creative or he needs to be creative, Does he be Is he going to be aggressive? And then we started talking about like these early off season deals. The World Series ends on a Sunday and four or five days later, the Phillies they go out and they get you know, Billy Wagner or Brad Lidge, uh, And it just got us thinking about some of these early off season moves. You were in the front office when the Phillies made some of these moves. Speaking of brad Lidge in November seventh, two thousand and seven, Billy Wagner November three, two thousand and three, Andy Ashby November tenth, nineteen ninety nine. I want to ask you, is there a common denominator in those super early off season trades. Is it just, you know, the stars a line up perfectly? Is it one team just wants to get rid of somebody and you make a fair offer. Because I feel like on a guy like Wagner or brad Lidge, even you're.

00:19:36
Speaker 2: Kind of curious, I would.

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Speaker 3: Think maybe the astro one of maybe hang on for him a little longer, maybe get the bidding up.

00:19:41
Speaker 2: But that wasn't the case. Do you remember what do you remember about those?

00:19:45
Speaker 1: I think each one of those situations is a little different.

00:19:48
Speaker 6: Sometimes you can do quick deals because one, you haven't really been in the playoffs, so you're you're having your A lot of your meetings are a little bit earlier. That's not the greatest sign in the world because you're not in playoff. You know, then those situations you're already sort of lining up. Okay, if you're very had your meetings, you're discussed it with your with your people about which targets you want and lining them up and making those moves.

00:20:16
Speaker 1: But I think it's a lot of it comes down to being prepared, number one, getting information from your people and making sure that you understand that there's some There may be some players out there that you can target. You often can make those deals on guys that like for some reason, have a hiccup or they have you know, a little bit of a warp.

00:20:40
Speaker 6: In the case of Brad Lidge, he just gave up that big home run, you know, and Houston was probably like, you know what, we have three or four other guys that can close for us. Let's just you know, he's not gonna it's not gonna work after that home run he gave up.

00:20:55
Speaker 1: He may not be he may not be the guy.

00:20:58
Speaker 6: So, yeah, we were, you know, at that time, we were actually looking for starting pitching and because we couldn't find any, because there was not a whole lot on the free agent market, we weren't going to be paying a ton for it. Pat Gillick sort of switched off and said, you know what, let's put Brett Myers back into a rotation and let's go get the closer. Even though Brett did a hell of a jump as a closer. Let's let's sort of pill two birds with one stone, get that guy into the rotation and pick up a closer and see how he does. And I mean he made history for us. But and that was sort of Pat Gillick, you know, mightas touched. But but there are other deals that were made Billy Wagner. I think ed really targeted Billy Wagner. He knew a lot about a knew the knew the the makeup, and understood what what he would bring to the table and how important that was. That position was a real gaping hole for us, and that was.

00:21:52
Speaker 1: The one thing that we really needed. And he ended up, you know, being aggressive with him.

00:21:59
Speaker 6: And and you know, I think some of AD's contacts with the Houston Astros, with the people on that organization, Tal Smith and others, I just think he had a lot of information about that.

00:22:11
Speaker 1: I mean, that was a big move for us. Billy was phenomenal in the team, and it's just rear end off for us. He was great.

00:22:18
Speaker 5: But these were like really strike quick deals. I got to think they were a little bit on your radar screen, any even like me. In the second half of the season, I mean it was clear Ledge, like you said, it was going to get traded. He had. He just had a tough time holding onto that closer's job his last year in Houston. It was time for a fresh start. Earlier than that, in ninety nine, you guys, I mean, there's always a reason to make that early trade. You know, you guys needed to close it. But in ninety nine, when you get Andy Ashby, yep, from San Diego, I mean, things were starting to trend upward a little bit. The team was getting a little bit better, and you had shilling, and the feeling was if you can get Ashby, you'll have a really excellent one two punch. And you made that trade at the GM meetings. And I remember they were summer in southern California when you guys made that trade. I wrote it down. That was Adam eating Carlton Lower and Steve Montgomery go the other way. You get Andy Ashby, and the feeling I remember the excitement. There was some excitement that hey, wow, we got two pretty good pictures. And then so you get Ashby at the GM meetings and then like five weeks later, the winter meetings come up, and that's when it's announced Shilling needs shoulder surgery.

00:23:38
Speaker 1: So it was an awful That was an awful combination of things happening because we were really excited about having Andy Ashby slide into that number two slot. We ended up going with as good as one two punch as you can get other than what they've been what they were firing out there in Atlanta. So we were pretty excited about it, and we found out that Shill's shoulder, that he was not good and that we might lose him, and that really hurt us because Andy really wasn't necessarily prepared to be a number one.

00:24:07
Speaker 6: We knew Andy well. I mean, I was his teammate when he first came to the big leagues in ninety two. I played with him and he was coming through the system, and then he ended up getting traded and he came back, you know, we got him back. But we liked him, We liked everything about him.

00:24:23
Speaker 1: Great guy. He just I think he probably was feeling the pressure.

00:24:29
Speaker 6: Of having to be that number one guy and did not you know, he had to face the number one every single time, and he really struggled and he got like this really weird finger infection, believe it or not.

00:24:43
Speaker 1: He got a finger infection. Do you know how he got it?

00:24:46
Speaker 6: Changing a diaper and he got like in like a sort of a form of murcia or an infection in his finger. He didn't, yeah, because he had a blister or something in it ended up the fecal content ended up like making Yeah, I'm serious.

00:25:02
Speaker 1: That's crazy ship. That's crazy ship. But it's true unintended.

00:25:09
Speaker 3: See now I just got Now, now I just got in his cause not to change my eighteen months old diapers. I gotta I don't want to get Hey, listen, no cuts, listen, I appreciate this is that's the last I.

00:25:23
Speaker 5: Got right with these fingers.

00:25:24
Speaker 2: That can't be getting a uh an infection.

00:25:26
Speaker 1: It's crazy. But then it ended up affecting him. Oh my, I mean obviously one of your one of I can't remember it was index finger, his middle finger, but in one of his finger pitching fingers. Man, No good that that that never.

00:25:38
Speaker 5: Made Jason Stark's list of wild and crazy injuries. Maybe we get him on the phone.

00:25:42
Speaker 1: That's because uh my, man, Jeff Cooper kept it on the down low.

00:25:49
Speaker 3: Und those like so for the fans that don't get aren't in these the war rooms when these trades are hashed out as much as you remember about Lidge Wagner and if you could relate it maybe to today with with dombrowskame what they're doing a right?

00:26:05
Speaker 2: Do those things happen quickly?

00:26:07
Speaker 3: Or have you have you guys, have you guys already touched base with Houston for like weeks and weeks and this was just the culmination of that or was it as simple as you know ed or Pat calling whoever? With the with the Astros on a Thursday and the deals done on a Sunday.

00:26:24
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, every every trade has its own sort of life lifeline. You know.

00:26:31
Speaker 6: Sometimes you have discussions with a guy in an off season prior and then you have another discussion with that that same guy about other players in their system during the trade deadline and then leading up to it. I mean, there's all different ways that that these things can happen, and and you sort of build relationships and build ideas and think about things and throw you know, throw things out there, and you also get try to get as much information from your scouts as you possibly can about you know, background number one on the player, but also background on how this organization feels about this player, what this organization likes from art organization. There's just so much information that can be gleaned from people who do a really good job of scouting. So information gathering is one of the biggest things you could possibly be able to do. And I think Pat Gillick was Hall of Fame level as far as that is concerned. I think Ed did a great job of it because he built relationships with his scouts and they, you know, he tried to gain information. I tried to gain as much information from anywhere, from a clubhouse guy to a trainer to whomever, to try to glean some information about what do they you know, does this manager like this guy, does this organization like that. Sometimes the manager likes the guy and that front office does, and vice versa. There's all types of dynamics that go on.

00:27:56
Speaker 1: I remember doing it, like the one trade for.

00:28:00
Speaker 6: Uh Ben uh the centerfielder from Minnesota then Revere and you know, and you know, we were kind of dancing around and they needed pitching and we needed a center fielder and I was like, I go to to Terry.

00:28:17
Speaker 1: Uh Terry Ryan who was great, and Terry was great.

00:28:21
Speaker 6: He did no bullshit. You know, you just go, hey, Terry, I need a center fielder. I like your guy, ben I got some pitching here. You might like, let's do this. Boom boom boom. We sat down in like one of the off you know, one of the off rooms in our suite, and pounded out got it done.

00:28:39
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I remember that deal.

00:28:42
Speaker 3: I think it was Danny Nobler. Uh might have first written or hinted at something cooking with you guys. And then that morning at the g at the.

00:28:50
Speaker 2: Rule five draft, Yeah, just pat Pat Gilla goes.

00:28:54
Speaker 3: Up and has a long conversation with Terry Ryan I think, and I was like, hmm, this is And then about an hour later word broke that that that trade, that trade was done.

00:29:05
Speaker 5: We're in Nashville.

00:29:07
Speaker 2: Is that Nashville? Okay? Okay?

00:29:09
Speaker 1: I was walking out the door when we got it. You're waiting on. There was some question about ben Vere's medical because he had some knee issues, and obviously a speed guy, you want to make sure his knees okay, right, right, And we ended up we ended up sort of taking the risk and going with it. He didn't really have any issues with it with us. He ended up playing pretty healthy he didn't.

00:29:31
Speaker 5: He didn't have any diaper issues either.

00:29:35
Speaker 2: He did not no diaper issues.

00:29:38
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, I looked as I was kind of researching all these like early off season trades, I did find one. The earliest one I found November nineteen ninety three, Rubin, Was that me that you were.

00:29:52
Speaker 2: Traded to Cleveland for Heathcliff Slocum.

00:29:54
Speaker 1: Oh, it happened fast. They had enough that That was the early I went.

00:29:59
Speaker 3: On as past this service court, and that's about as far back it was, like, I think it went back as far as like eighty nine, And the earliest off season trade I could find for the Phillies was November second, nineteen ninety three Reuben trade.

00:30:12
Speaker 1: How opsided was that trade? I got like sixty at bats in two years, and the Heathcliff went on and was in like an All Star that year.

00:30:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, you know, so a lot of things have to kind of align for the Phillies to strike quick this offseason. But you know, we thought it would be fun to mention just because you know, a week or two into the post off season, nothing's happened. Everybody's going to start going where are they going?

00:30:38
Speaker 5: To do something.

00:30:39
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I mean I just think that people I don't trades are done differently in this day and age.

00:30:45
Speaker 1: Everybody's so cautious. Everybody. Nobody wants to get beat on the trade. Yeah, everybody's very cautious. They don't want to look like a fool in front of the world. Like, dude, if you need somebody and you have a need and there's a you know, let's just make a trade. Yeah, everybody has to try to everybody has to try to outsmart everybody.

00:31:06
Speaker 6: And to me, I believed in you know, equity. Just do a trade that that makes sense for both teams and let's get it done.

00:31:14
Speaker 1: Let's make it happen. Now they're doing three ways and four ways, and yeah, okay, somebody always gets somebody always gets screwed. There's one guy who was one team that always gets screwed in a three way or four way trade, one or two.

00:31:30
Speaker 3: Right, Right, That's why day you know, Dave got at the trade deadline this year, you got kind of hammered a little bit for giving up the two pitching prospects for Carlos Stevez. Then that was a steep trice to pay for a guy and his his free agent year.

00:31:43
Speaker 2: But you know, now, I'm sure if he leaves and.

00:31:48
Speaker 3: One of those guys pans out sam Alde Garry or George class and pans out, they'll get killed. But if it's worked the other way and they won the World Series, and you know you can, you just don't know at the time. Either you want the player and you go get the player, or you get scared about it and you go, I'm not I can't give up George claus and to get Estevez.

00:32:09
Speaker 2: And then what if you go get them? If you want to go get them, right.

00:32:15
Speaker 1: I believe in that. And listen, prospects or prospects, man, until they're in the big leagues. And I'm not saying that they don't have value.

00:32:22
Speaker 6: They do, But the reality of it is, you can talk about a prospect and a ball double am and I got burned by that several times.

00:32:29
Speaker 1: So prospects or prospects and and major league players are major league players, especially if they're if they're playing well, you have the right information on them.

00:32:39
Speaker 3: Right, guys, World Series Game one, World Series Friday night at Doctor Stadium.

00:32:45
Speaker 2: Who are you guys taking We nailed the nld S predictions?

00:32:51
Speaker 1: Do we miss completely.

00:32:52
Speaker 2: Well, we all picked the Phillies.

00:32:53
Speaker 1: The win beat the Mets in the nl D s Oh, well, yeah, come on, they should have. I mean, if that's had, it's really didn't. I mean, listen, Yeah, the Dodgers did expect exactly. They exposed the Mets for what they are.

00:33:06
Speaker 6: They're They're picked the pitching staff that doesn't throw strikes. And the Dodgers basically exploited that.

00:33:14
Speaker 1: They exploited it, and the police did not. What do you got?

00:33:17
Speaker 5: What do you got, Jim? I'm a little torn. I mean, I I think the uh I'd give the starting pitching on the Yankee side. Sure you got Cole in Game one, but I do like that Dodgers lineup. Man, They're tough and they're deep. I don't know who I guess, you know, if if I had, if you're making me make a pick, I might pick the Yankees. I feel like they got something brewing those two big guys in the middle, the starting pitching. But the Dodgers are tough and dangerous. Bets and Freeman, Oh, Tommy Montcy, Tommy Edmond, probably missus, Osar Tey, Oscar Hernandez. I mean, gosh, I mean it should be a very good series. Really, two great teams, two big payrolls, two big cities, five MVPs. You know, you get GM carl Or Stanton came alive. How many times you try to trade for him? Ruben?

00:34:18
Speaker 1: I told uh one of the GM's one time. Who was it, I can't remember what it was. I remember the text I sent out, you can have anybody and all the players in my in my organization or Jim Carlo, Mike Hill, I think it was. It was Mike Hill. That's exactly what it was. So I actually asked you, said, yeah, I think I think we're gonna hold on to them. Mike, Okay, I want to see if this is true. I said, it's wide open, take them all.

00:34:46
Speaker 5: I asked you a question one day about Stanton, like kind of a just a regular old question, and you said, I've tried to trade from ten times. I did, and I quoted you saying that I think the Miami Marlins were coming into town, and I quoted him. I was saying, I've tried to trade for Gin and Carlo ten times. And did you get a call from the Commissioner's office about that?

00:35:07
Speaker 1: Uh? I got a call from the Commissioner's office on something else. I thought, you can't because you can't. Maybe I did, Maybe I maybe I did.

00:35:18
Speaker 5: I thought maybe somebody or maybe the Christian's office called somebody and said.

00:35:22
Speaker 1: No, Ruben can't talk about other players.

00:35:26
Speaker 3: That's a the lame rule.

00:35:27
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it, But.

00:35:29
Speaker 5: Who do you guys got in the series? Well?

00:35:32
Speaker 2: I would like this.

00:35:33
Speaker 3: I would like to see the Dodgers win because I'm I love Otani. Who doesn't love Otani? I love Freddie Freeman, Mookie Betts.

00:35:40
Speaker 2: Come on, he was a guest on the Philly show. You Gotta you gotta pull that guy.

00:35:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, but uh, I just don't know how if the Dodgers have to bullpen some of these games.

00:35:51
Speaker 2: Man, they could do it against the Mets, But this Yankees, lamb is it?

00:35:55
Speaker 1: Are?

00:35:55
Speaker 3: They just gonna wear them down to the point where they got nothing left at the end of the World Series. So for that reason, I would take the Yankees, just because their lineup can kind of go pound for pound with the Dodgers, I feel like, and uh man, it's just hard to imagine the Dodgers having a bullpen a few of these games and getting away with it again and putting up all those zeros. I mean, you know. So that's that's why I would probably take to take the Yankees.

00:36:20
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be an exciting series.

00:36:22
Speaker 6: I get a little embarrassed by the fact that these teams can't field five starters.

00:36:27
Speaker 1: Four starters.

00:36:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's crazy with these payrolls that they can't. Really, they cannot field four starters.

00:36:34
Speaker 2: Somebody was hard.

00:36:35
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to imagine that. Now, my heart is probably with the guys that I really care about, because I have some favorites. Yeah, I love Mookie.

00:36:45
Speaker 6: I loved him as a when I was coaching with them, but and I love them as a person.

00:36:50
Speaker 5: Uh.

00:36:50
Speaker 6: And and Freddie Freeman's always been from from the time he hit the major leagues has been one of my favorite players of all time.

00:36:57
Speaker 1: And so so my heart goes out to the Dodgers. My head says Yankees, just because I think they have a little bit more pitching death. Yeah, that's where I'm at. Yeah, so Yankees in seven.

00:37:11
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna say Yankees in six.

00:37:14
Speaker 5: I want to go with the Yankees too. I don't know why, but I think it might go seven. I mean, it just astounds me. You know, listening to New York Sports Radio two three months ago, they wanted Aaron Boone fired Bran four wins from winning the World Series.

00:37:34
Speaker 1: Cash just bought himself another ten years.

00:37:39
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. Uh, we'll be last.

00:37:41
Speaker 1: He doesn't sign. Soo oh, that's right.

00:37:44
Speaker 2: You said he's out.

00:37:46
Speaker 3: Cashman wins the World Series. Yankees win the World Series. They don't sign Soto, Cashman out.

00:37:53
Speaker 1: They win the World Series.

00:37:54
Speaker 5: I don't know.

00:37:54
Speaker 2: Okay, he's gonna sign. Guys.

00:37:58
Speaker 5: We will be back next week. Hey, Todd, when you change diapers, make sure you wear some gloves.

00:38:03
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be pritting some rubber gloves on now. We appreciate it.

00:38:08
Speaker 1: Can't be messing up.

00:38:09
Speaker 2: Can't be messing up my writing. Fingers, got it.

00:38:12
Speaker 1: Hey man, You guys want inside scoop? You got it.

00:38:17
Speaker 5: It was a scoop, all right.

00:38:21
Speaker 3: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Ruben's analysis before, during, and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports.

00:38:41
Speaker 2: Radio ninety four w i P Morning Show, and MLB Network. Find Jim at all p h l Y dot com.

00:38:47
Speaker 3: Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies Beat newsletter, and MLB Network