Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop + Ranking the best starting pitchers in baseball w/Andy McCullough

00:00:06
Speaker 1: We are joined once again by a senior writer for the Athletic MLB on Fox sideline reporter and insider Ken Rosenthal. Ken, good to be with you. As always, everybody wants to know if one of the highest prospects in terms of Banfair is going to make the team. What can you say Connor Griffin Pirates breaking with the big league club.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: From the indications we're getting from their quotes, it seems the answer is no. Now, he's having an interesting spring. He's hitting not great, but he has four home runs, ten strikeouts, zero walks. That's always alarming for any young player when he's not walking. Now, at the same time, the Pirates have to ask themselves, is this the best shortstop that we have? Is this the best shortstop we could put on our roster and be most competitive that way. That's a good question because they don't have great all alternatives. Jarrett Triolo and Nick Gonzalez are major league players, no question about it, But Connor Griffin obviously represents the greatest upside. Now there is another element here, and it's really interesting. So if you remember with Paul Skeens, he wasn't ready to come up opening day or at least, the Pirates didn't deem him ready to come up opening day. They held him out until mid May, and then he came up in mid May one Rookie of the Year regardless. So by winning Rookie of the Year, he got a full year of service time even though he wasn't active for a full year. That's the rule under the CBA right now. And because he didn't make the opening day roster or was in the majors by April tenth, the Pirates did not get the draft pick that they would get by the Prospect Promotion Incentive Program, So they kind of got nailed both ways in a negative sense. They didn't get the draft pick, and he got a full year of service. I don't know that that will be a major consideration with Griffin, but it probably should be a consideration with the Pirates, and I'm sure they're thinking about it now. The other element, and there's a lot of elements here, if they signed Connor Griffin to an extension, they would probably do it after opening Day because he would remain eligible for the Prospect Promotion Incentive Program and the Pirates would remain eligible for that pick. But if they do that, the question then becomes okay, are you dangling that? So you'll say to him, you're on the roster if you sign this contract. It's been done before. So as I said, there is a lot going on here. And there's another prospect in Detroit's camp, Kevin McGonagall, who it looks like is going to make their team. He's kind of the number two prospect in the sport. He's having a monster spring in many ways, more strikeouts, sorry, more walks than strikeouts. He is in a different place than Griffin from that perspective, and he's playing terrific defense on the left side. So these are both fascinating decisions, and we'll see how they play out. But the Griffin one to me, because he hasn't exactly torn it up. The Pirates can have the excuse, well, we don't want them, but it might hurt themselves in the end if he indeed wins Rookie of the Year and they don't have him the whole year.

00:03:09
Speaker 3: There's so many things unpacked with the Connor Griffin thing. Or are they talking about extensions? You know, anytime you talk about a young guy like that, is there a date that it goes past that they could hold Connor Griffin down because the fear was always manipulation. But is there a date, like if they hold him till June fifteenth, it makes it way tougher to win Rookie of the Year. But is there a date that could hold him down so that it would be a form of type of manipulation.

00:03:38
Speaker 2: Yes, and it is probably late June when you would get not only the service time implication, you're holding him down preventing him from winning Rookie of the Year and him getting that full year of service. And you're also at that point preventing him from becoming a Super two in arbitration. So there are those incentives still in place. But my goodness, the Pirates have finally spent some money this offseason. They are clearly trying in the way that they try to compete. You're going to hold this kid down until late June when other teams see him as a hugely valuable player right now, so I don't see that happening.

00:04:18
Speaker 4: Eric.

00:04:19
Speaker 2: Yes, they can do it, but it is not in their interests to do it. And it is a complicated question because this is his age twenty season. There aren't many players who have come up and had five hundred at bats in their age twenty season, and if they are seeing things and spring training that make them feel he needs more development, well that's a legitimate thing and you can't fault them for that. So it's a complicated question, a really interesting one, and we'll see how in the final days of spring it all kind of plays out.

00:04:48
Speaker 5: Is it technically just age twenty season? This is my question.

00:04:51
Speaker 3: But because he's nineteen, if you start a season, are you technically age nineteen season?

00:04:57
Speaker 2: No, it's June first, is the date? Okay, okay, becomes a different or maybe it's de live first. I'm not sure, but this is his age twenty season. I think his birthday is in May if I'm not mistaken. So technically it is his age twenty season, and that's how baseball does it. I believe it's delive first, correct me if I'm wrong with somebody out there, but I think that's when it kicks over.

00:05:19
Speaker 3: My last question with Connor Griffin is are they waiting for him to be a superstar? Because the whole thing is, oh, you know, they haven't quite done it. And I get it, you know, he hasn't walked and all this stuff, But are they waiting for him to be a superstar to call him up, because to me, that feels like that's a big ask at nineteen years old.

00:05:38
Speaker 2: Maybe they want to see him dominate triple A. I can see that he hasn't played a triple A yet. But at the same time, the question they have to ask, and again it's complicated. What is best for the player right now and what is best for the team right now. It might be best for the player to go back down, but for the team, well, maybe it's best to keep him, keep that draft pick possibility alive because you didn't get one. With schemes. There are all these different parts of the equation here that they have to consider. And if you're Ben Sherrington, you're their president based operations, You're saying to yourself, Okay, what's best for the kid, And maybe he is determined or will determine that what is best for the kid is for him to get more minor league development. Well, there are consequences to that, perhaps for the Pittsburgh Pirates, and Sherrington has to weigh that too.

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00:07:33
Speaker 1: About the Atlanta Braves and Jerks and Profar with the suspension obviously for the ped use and then of course the appeal not going his way. What do the braves do moving forward without him? And is there a scenario in which he comes back after the suspension is served.

00:07:50
Speaker 2: That is a good question, a lota. I have a hard time believing it. At that point, I'll have a year left on his contract fifteen million. If on them, I eat it. I don't worry about going forward with Jerks and Profar. At that point, he has compromised them enough. Now what do they do is the question. And they were waiting for resolution on the appeal before determining whether to go forward and spend some more money. Look at different options. They could take the fifteen million that he is due and distributed elsewhere, or they could also pocket it for the deadline and have a lot of money to spend at the deadline. There are all kinds of things that they can do. Lucas Giolito is still out there. This is a team that needs starting pitching, that's one thing. As for the outfield, they've got Yustroemsky. They signed him. So it's Yastremsky, and it's Michael Harris, it's Ronald Lacunya. Not bad. You might want a little bit more depth. You might want to go get an outfielder, and there are out of options guys who might be available. There are minor league free agents with opt outs that might be available, or you might be able to make a trade for something more significant. Mike Yustreemsky was not signed to be an everyday player, but it's not as if they are totally bear there. And now that they have this resolution, they know that he will be suspended for one hundred and sixty two games, they at least can be certain with where they are financially. And I would imagine I don't know this for a fact, but I would imagine they were waiting for this because they wanted to know for sure that, yes, we will not be paying Jerks and profar, and that is the answer. They will not be paying jerks and Profar.

00:09:27
Speaker 3: What have we been missing since we've been watching the shiny bright object of the WBC. What are some of the storylines that, oh, yeah, spring training has still been going on that now we're thrust back into spring training essentially.

00:09:40
Speaker 2: Abs for sure, and that's going to be a story in the early part of the season, no question about it. I don't know that we're missing anything. Eric, regarding major storylines in spring training. I always feel spring training, Okay, we watch it, it's kind of a mirage. We don't know what we're seeing doesn't really matter, but once the season begins, yes, the storylines come into play, and certainly there are a lot of new managers in place, Tony Vtello the most prominent among them with the San Francisco Giants. There are players coming back from injuries that we'll be looking for, Garrett Cole, Corbyn Burns, Zach Wheeler, all the guys who had the Hanfe fractures as well Lindor and Jackson Holliday. So there are all kinds of things brewing, and perhaps we'll see some extensions in the next week as well. It's kind of the time of year for that. But until the season begins, what we're watching in spring is kind of of little consequence unless players get hurt, players come back healthy, trades are made something along those lines.

00:10:39
Speaker 3: Can we go to the Blue Jays pitching rotation because they have a lot of people, They have a lot of guys down with Bieber going down with now Treya Savage news Do we feel like the Jays kind of saw some of this coming because of the fact of how many guys they got and then January thirtieth, they signed Max Scherzer that they felt like, we're not going to be a full strength right out of the gate.

00:11:05
Speaker 2: Yes, they knew Bieber was not right. And the day he exercised that player option for next year, coming off a pretty good year, when he could have gone to free agency and probably gotten a multi year deal, the entire industry knew something was up there. There was no reason for him to make that decision from a financial standpoint if he was healthy, So they knew that going in. They also knew you Savage at the very least would need to be slow played, because of course he pitched a lot of innings last year, a lot of high stress innings toward the end of the year. Barrios also ended the year hurt, and it couldn't have been sure about him either, So Eric, you're onto something there. They did have a sense that there were some possible problems, and that was one motivation for signing Scherzer obviously, and Cody ponce before that. And they'll un cease. They're in a good spot as far as the depth. We see that they have a legit rotation even without burials and Bieber and Bowden Francis and now you're Savage but the depth is something that they're going to need and something that will obviously be more in jeopardy if another picture gets hurt. They're okay now, but they're kind of one picture away from one injury away from having a major problem.

00:12:22
Speaker 1: Ken Eric and I at the top of the show, we're talking about the New York Mets perhaps implementing more of the relay system of pitches in the dugout. We talked to Susan Slesser about it as to whether the Giants would do that, being that Vitello obviously is a college coach and that type of thing. In your estimation, is that something that more clubs perhaps would do. We knew the Marlins have done it. The met are toying with it. They're working through something. Susan doesn't think unless it's like a rule five catcher that's going to be implemented. What's your estimation of how many clubs might actually use this.

00:12:54
Speaker 2: I would say minimal number, a lot, and it should be a minimal number. Goodness, gracious, aj Prizidski. All of these catchers out there, they know what they're doing. They can react to the game in a better sense than someone from the bench. Can they are reading swings in a better way because they're trained in this, they're experienced at it, then some coach who's calling a pitch. I don't like it.

00:13:20
Speaker 4: To me.

00:13:21
Speaker 2: It removes even more instincts from the game, and we've done enough of that already. So I'd be interested to hear Eric's thoughts on this, because to me, it's unnecessary. Now, if you have a rookie catcher or an inexperienced catcher, a different story perhaps, but get entire game should not be run from the dugout. It's ridiculous to me.

00:13:41
Speaker 3: I'm monologued for like five minutes on a ken at the top of the show, so I'll give you the cliff notes version. I don't like it, but I'm also open to making sure that the team plays the best that they can possibly play. So I'm not as if Aj who was called prickly by Susan plusher earlier show that like, if he was on he would say, now, I hate it, I can't stand it, you know, get off my lawn kind of thing.

00:14:06
Speaker 5: I was a little bit less hate it and more just don't like.

00:14:09
Speaker 2: It, okay, And I can understand what you're saying there it makes a lot of sense. Of course, if it's going to help the team win, yes, you'd be on board. My feeling is though, that the catcher has the best sense of what's going on, and if you've got to catcher like j Triobuto, just as one example, you're not messing with him. Now again, younger catcher, different story, but it's problematic for me. I kind of still feel the catcher has the best sense and that's the way the game should be played.

00:14:40
Speaker 3: I agree, And I gotta ask you, is this next topic problematic for contracts for players? Danny Kloom had agreed to a contract and then the physicals came back. We don't know exactly what it was, but there was something questionable. Both the player and the team were amenable on this, that he's going to get a million guaranteed but possibly still get up to the two point five and incentives. Isn't this bad for or could it be problematic because now teams are willing to say, well, hey, if you want this contract, you're gonna have to earn it, which is the best for teams and could be kind of a worst case scenario for players.

00:15:19
Speaker 2: Eric, This is not that unusual. This does happen from time to time. We don't always hear about it when a player has something in his physical that gets flagged by the team and then they adjust the contract. In this case, we heard about it. Obviously. If you're a player, you're concerned, and if you're a prominent player who is in demand, you're in a better situation than Danny Coolan was, although of course we've seen this with Korea several years ago as well, where those contracts weren't adjusted when the Giants and Mets flagged his physicals. They just backed out and then he ultimately signed with the Twins. But it is something where, yes, teams can take advantage of it, but if you've got a competitive situation, you're going to see another team jump in and say, you know what, that's not that bad. We can assume this risk here with this physical issue that we've identified, and it's not that big a deal. So I don't see this as particularly uncommon. I don't know that it happens more than three or four times an offseason, if that. But it's not a first time situation. Where Danny kolom was in this position, it was first time perhaps for him, but not in general. For the game.

00:16:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like in essence, Ken, if he can stay healthy, then he'll have the opportunity to get those incentives back and the Red Slacks sign him at a very low risk one million dollars. Can We always appreciate everything you bring to the inside Scoop. Have a tremendous weekend. Don't forget guys. Ken is back with Fair Territory on Monday and Thursdays. Right here on the Foul to the Foul Territory YouTube channel. We'll be right back after this. We are now joined by a senior writer of The Athletic, Andy McCullough, the worst half of Stephanie Epstein. Good to see you, Andy, Good to be with you. I want to ask you about your article, the twenty twenty six aces project MLB Insiders rank starting pitchers. Who's just a guy and who is number one? You collaborated on this? Tell us more about the rankings my friends.

00:17:14
Speaker 4: Sure, thank you, Anna, I do I also prefer my wife to me. Yeah. So, for the last like seven years.

00:17:22
Speaker 7: Now, when my colleagues at the Athletic, we've been trying to kind of do this project of just to determine like who are the best pictures in baseball. And so I do it these days with Will Salmon and Sahadivsharma and we basically have a pool of like twenty executives, scouts analysts. We try and kind of have a diverse array of opinions and we send them a list of pictures. This year was ninety pitchers, and we just kind of ask, you know, for them to put a scouting grade one through five, you know, on each guy, and it takes a lot of time on their end, and so.

00:17:54
Speaker 4: We really appreciate it.

00:17:55
Speaker 7: And you know, the idea is like you come out with like, okay, if you get twenty people know who work in baseball, right, how many of them? Like, how many pictures are unanimously number one? So does everyone we can find, you know, is considered an ace. And this year we had you know, two is Trek Scugle and Paul Skean's not a shock, I think to anyone.

00:18:16
Speaker 4: Scooble was unanimous last year as well. Skeens was like one vote short.

00:18:20
Speaker 7: Maybe, but it's just like it's it's a really interesting way to kind of just try and rank pictures, you know, to think about how you know scouts and executives see them and to.

00:18:30
Speaker 4: Just try and find a consensus.

00:18:31
Speaker 3: Basically, what, Okay, so you compiled all this information. Where are your where are your rankings? Are you a Alana Rizzo big pile of aces or you a Eric Kratz.

00:18:44
Speaker 5: There's not many aces in the in the game.

00:18:47
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm I'm a small ace guy or a small hall guy.

00:18:51
Speaker 4: Whatever.

00:18:52
Speaker 7: Yes, I'm on your side, Cratsy.

00:18:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:18:56
Speaker 7: And I this is this whole project kind of morphed of this dinner we used to have at spring training like ten years ago, where a bunch of writers would get around and.

00:19:05
Speaker 4: Like argue about this, and I, you know, there was like aces, there's number twos, there's number threes, number fours, whatever.

00:19:12
Speaker 7: And I created this category called applicants, which is basically, if you pitch like an ace for a season, you have you are formally applying to become an ace. And so you know you kind of have to do it again, right, you can just like beat great for one year and then all of a sudden you're a number one. The whole point of being an ace is there's like a track record of sustained success. And so from my personal rankings, which is worth what I charge from them. The three aces in baseball are Scooble schemes and Garrett Crochet and Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Christopher Sanchez are applicants for the twenty twenty six season, and then I would also have the caveat that with a season of good health and performance, Garrett Cole and Zach Wheeler are automatically re certified as aces.

00:20:01
Speaker 3: Andy, you and I. You and I are so locked in. I love this, but we need to solidify your list of aces because my my argument is there are six to eight aces. I wouldn't say six to seven because of the kids today, but there you go, six to eight aces in the game at any time. So I put together my list, and I want you to break it down because I completely agree. Yamamoto is a no because I'm black and white.

00:20:26
Speaker 5: He's a NO. I love your applicants. I love that I love that he can.

00:20:30
Speaker 4: How did you know?

00:20:31
Speaker 5: How is he no Dodgers? Dodgers?

00:20:34
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with Dodgers. It has nothing to do with Dodgers. He was the World Series MVP.

00:20:39
Speaker 4: How is he you know?

00:20:39
Speaker 1: He's the only starter for the Dodgers that that pitched every time the ball was given to him, the only one on the al How is he not an ace? If Showhy wasn't on that list and he didn't even pitch last year, how is it? How is Yamamoto not an ace?

00:20:53
Speaker 7: Well, so it's not love him, it's not Alana, it's not a talent issue. And again he's applying like he's put in a formal application in the twenty twenty sixth season.

00:21:03
Speaker 4: But he simply did not.

00:21:05
Speaker 7: And again, Yamamoto is like the greatest pitcher probably in Japanese history.

00:21:09
Speaker 4: He won the Solomora three times.

00:21:11
Speaker 7: You know, like he's shown what he's capable of these past couple of seasons. He's also like never thrown one hundred and eighty innings in a big league season, and that's you know, kind.

00:21:21
Speaker 1: That like, isn't it somebody that just dominates?

00:21:24
Speaker 5: Like what it tell me?

00:21:25
Speaker 1: Again, the criteria make sure.

00:21:28
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's kind of like the Supreme Court definition of pornography.

00:21:32
Speaker 4: I guess, like you know, when you see it.

00:21:35
Speaker 7: I just think no, Like I think I think that you need to, you know, be capable of making at least thirty starts, if not more, you know, one hundred and eighty innings.

00:21:45
Speaker 4: The more innings the better going deep into games.

00:21:48
Speaker 7: You know, look, if Yamamoto does what he did last year again this year, that'd be crazy because it'd be really weird to see him pitch on games six and seven of the World.

00:21:57
Speaker 4: Series back to back. But like, if he puts it another season, yeah, he gets certified as an ACE for me.

00:22:04
Speaker 3: Yes, so okay, so we're on that. That's such a great explanation. I'll tell you when you're out of line. Okay, any but right now you and I we are. Oh wait, no, you're on this side. Now we are. We are together.

00:22:16
Speaker 4: But Southeastern Pennsylvania stay together.

00:22:20
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, Sanchez is a no for me currently and Crochet.

00:22:27
Speaker 5: Yes.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: Max Reed I think is the most fringe right now. I think he is very fringy in the sense that he has another year like he did last year. He is a yes, but currently not an ace bona fide number one though, And I agree with the Wheeler and I.

00:22:43
Speaker 1: Say Max Reed's an ace. I would not say that.

00:22:45
Speaker 5: You act like I think everybody's We agree. I know he's not much. Okay, he's not.

00:22:51
Speaker 1: He's not an ace.

00:22:53
Speaker 7: From a from a scouting perspective, from what from what analysts and people around the game say about him, he is closer to a number two than number one. Now, again, beating in number two is awesome, Like you're so good at.

00:23:07
Speaker 4: Baseball as a number two starter.

00:23:10
Speaker 7: There are plenty of number twos and number three's in the Hall of Fame, right Like, it's not a criticism.

00:23:16
Speaker 4: There's just like the scouts.

00:23:17
Speaker 7: They have this sort of scale, and some of it is like, you know the power of your stuff, your velocity, you know how many bats you miss, all these sorts of things, and so Freed is like a very very high end number two, which like if you said that to him, it'd be like it would sound insulting, but it's just like, you know, it's sort of like the twenty to eighty scale, right Like that's just kind of how standard deviations work.

00:23:40
Speaker 4: I guess, Yeah, that's tremendous.

00:23:43
Speaker 5: Again, Andy, you're locked in. I love it.

00:23:45
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going down my list now, I'm going down my list, I said, Sanchez, No Freed, no logan, web Logan web to me is an ace because he's out there, he's done it for years, and that's part of the cave. That's when I get down the rest of my list, where do you see Logan Webb on the ace or not ace scale?

00:24:06
Speaker 7: Again, it sounds like it's insulting because he is awesome and he takes the baseball and no one is better at you know, picking up innings, Like you know, he's a number two according to what our panelists say, like they see him as closer to a number two. That still means he is awesome and you would love to have him in a postseason situation and you can build a pitching staff around him.

00:24:30
Speaker 4: But from you know, the sort.

00:24:32
Speaker 7: Of scouting perspective, he's closer to a two than a one.

00:24:37
Speaker 1: Is Jacob de Gram on the tier three? Just because he's always hurt and he hasn't.

00:24:42
Speaker 7: Done a lot, right, I mean with de Gram, like de Gram in peak de Gram, you know what what was like twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. Yeah, obviously, you know, definitely a number one, even with the sort of occasional.

00:24:55
Speaker 4: Lack of availability. You know, he was like his results were really really good.

00:25:01
Speaker 7: In twenty twenty five. You know, he had like a sub three era. The peripherals were like less crazy. You know, he wasn't striking out like fourteen per nine the way he used to. But yeah, like I think from a from a stuff perspective, maybe not as dominant as he once was, but like I think, just getting thirty starts out of him is such a such a win. So yeah, closer to you know again like a two, and then the the the the health concerns push it closer maybe two a three, which is why he's below you know, someone like a freed or a web given that he has like higher upside if that makes.

00:25:41
Speaker 1: Sense based on the parameters by definition, Andy McCullough, can you have more than one? I mean, you guys only have two, Terrek, Can you have more than one ACE on the same team?

00:25:58
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, for sure, And we only had two. We had two unanimous aces in our poll. We have a whole degrading system that we had said there were five and they included Crochet Yamamoto, who the public agree or excuse me, are are the people around the game agree with you, Alana about Yamamoto that he's number one? And Christopher Sanchez was just you know, kind of just over the line from our sort of system that we use. So those five were right there. And then with I believe Freed and Web were right on the other side of the line in terms of trying to decide it.

00:26:32
Speaker 4: So yeah, you can.

00:26:33
Speaker 7: You can have multiple number ones. Like it's not a it's like a binary question. It's like are you or aren't you. It's not where you fit in a rotation. It's just like do you have these sort of set of skills. So like when you know Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer played together with the Tigers, you know that sort of thing, like they were both number ones.

00:26:52
Speaker 3: Okay, continue down my list because my list is the most important list. But you are agreeing with me.

00:26:58
Speaker 4: Agree.

00:26:59
Speaker 3: I have one that my opinion, when we always talked about this in the minor leagues, big leagues, whatever, it was, if you had a certain amount of time as an ace and then you were down and you re upped your ace, ness, you're still an ace. I think Chris Sale is an ace because of the fact that we don't know he can't win a side. If you're out there and you could win a cy Young this year, to me, I think Chris Sale is in that ace category.

00:27:25
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, and I think if you're talking about my own personal ridiculous sort of you know standards, we created another I say, we I created another category, which is an American badass, which is like when you're really not a number one, but you've earned a reputation of you know, being that because of all you've done and the fact that you're still very effective. And it's almost like to say that Chris Sale is like a number three, like feels kind of insulting, right, especially when you watch Chris Sale and he's healthy and he's awesome, but you know, in terms of like being an actual number one, there's an availability issue, and so you know, he gets that very vaunted you know, definition of an ABA in my system, in the way that the people who actually make decisions in baseball, they have them somewhere.

00:28:13
Speaker 4: In between a two and a three.

00:28:15
Speaker 3: You're the judge, jury, and executioner in the ACE categories. So no matter what you say, that is gospel, my last one, My last one. This guy only made twenty five starts last year, but for the first time in his career he missed starts, and he has a career three five ERA, and he has eclipsed two hundred innings and he's over his strikeouts per inning, and it's Logan Gilbert to me, I think Logan Gilbert is.

00:28:44
Speaker 5: My last ace on the list. I want to hear what other people had thought about it, and even even your opinion.

00:28:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. You know it was interesting.

00:28:54
Speaker 7: One of the things that was really fascinated to get the results back for this year was kind of where the three younger members of the Mariners rotation would end up. We kind of know how everyone feels about Luis Castillo, like super valuable, super reliable, kind of mid tier guy. George Kirby and Logan Gilbert were two guys heading into this past season who were seeing as guys who had a chance to, you know, really solidify themselves as number ones.

00:29:18
Speaker 4: Both got hurt in.

00:29:20
Speaker 7: Twenty twenty five, Kirby maybe a bit more seriously than Gilbert, so they missed time and that kind of dinged their ceiling. Meanwhile, Brian Wu kind of vaulted past them, you know, on on this year's rankings.

00:29:32
Speaker 4: I'm I'm really fascinated to see kind of how those three guys shake out.

00:29:35
Speaker 7: Because Gilbert has all the you know, all the tools, all the ability, Like he's shown that he can be really elite. He just hasn't put it together, you know, in a in a full season just yet, so he would be again and that like number two.

00:29:48
Speaker 4: Number three tier for me right now.

00:29:51
Speaker 7: And that's kind of where we had him on the list, you know, it's kind of below the webs and the freeze and not yet in the.

00:29:58
Speaker 4: You know, the number one discussion.

00:29:59
Speaker 7: But I think if he has a big year, like he has all of the uh like the physical sort of tools and the you know, the building of miss bats and and that they could vault him in back into that discussion.

00:30:10
Speaker 3: All right, I have one more, but I forgot the comment about Logan Webb. To me, I thought Logan web was a one. And then when he took his strikeouts to where he took him last last season, I felt like that vaulted him into the into the ace category. But my last one for you, how close or what kind of season does Hunter Brown need to have to be considered an ace in your in your book?

00:30:33
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think I was.

00:30:36
Speaker 7: I was a little surprised at how few people we got for him put the put the asterisks that we ask you know for you know, the applicant status. So it's like we asked him, it's like, hey, put a scouting grade on this guy. If he's not yet a one, but you think he could become a one, you know, throw an asterisk, so like Noel McClain gets a bunch, you know, Jacob Mazerowski, Yuri Perez, like all this was guys and a hunter. Brown didn't get as many despite having like I think a two and a half. The ra last year are really good peripheral numbers, and I think, I guess the scouting belief is that he might be closer to capped as a number two, which again, like it makes it sound bad. It's not like you can make hundreds of millions of dollars and win the World Series and be awesome for many, many years. You know, if your strikeout rate is like slightly too low from the scouting perspective, you know, you don't fit the.

00:31:25
Speaker 4: Characteristics or whatever.

00:31:26
Speaker 7: I don't know, but yeah, for me, like if he were to do what he did last year again, I might feel silly for not having granted him an application. You know, he probably should be an applicant the more I think about it, But you know, we're just gonna have to let the year shake out and see how embarrassed I should be about these opinions