Getting Expert Advice on Beauty & Style with Rebecca and Jenny from Style Space

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and fifty six, which is first airing in late June of twenty twenty two. We are going to be interviewing Jenny Eversol and Rebecca Kirkwood from style Space, which is a virtual styling company. They can help you figure out makeup, accessories, various other things. That's what we did. We both did sessions with them. I learned about makeup with Rebecca. Sarah did accessories. So we'll be really excited to talk with them and get some great tips about how everyone can indulge in these fun things. Because Sarah, you love these sort of superficial episode topics, right, I do enjoy them. I enjoy listening to them. When other podcasts have these kinds of things as topics, and I enjoy creating them and the feedback we get from our listeners. I always, you know, kind of have this self conscious feeling like, oh, is this too frivolous of a topic, Like it's not serious enough. But honestly, like, I think it's something that can be enjoyable to some people. It is to me. I feel like I like having some control over how I put myself out in the world, and part of that is choosing how to dress and maybe which kind of makeup. And I guess I don't see any downside in that, although I think it's also totally fine if you don't enjoy those things to completely forego them. So you do you. Yeah, it's funny. I've been thinking about this with our longtime listeners. Know. I am doing this Shakespeare reading project this year. I'm reading through all the works of Shakespeare, and last month I read through all his sonnets. And if anyone has had to read his sonnets in your college English class or what have you, you know that he has a real be in his bonnet about cosmetics for unknown reasons. I mean, this is a man who made his living in the theater, where there was all sorts of falseness in how one portrays oneself, but that was his particular bugaboo with some of these sonnets complaining about how people had painted themselves and such. You know, I've never been a big makeup person. It's been interesting. I up pondered it because I feel like, well, I can learn other skills, like I just didn't bother to ever sort of figure out makeup, just kind of bought what's at the drug store what I think would work, which you know, probably similarly with clothes. It's never been an area that I've cared that much about. But I know that there's definitely something to be said for how you present yourself to the world, and certainly looking nice allow other people to maybe interact with you a little bit differently than they might have. And I've become certainly more aware of that getting older a little bit harder to be effortlessly beautiful. Yes, got to get older. The age thing definitely comes into play because I was thinking about this and I really didn't consistently wear makeup until my late thirties. And I remember when I was coming back to work after having Genevieve, I was like, I need something just because I just didn't feel you know, you have that postpartum feeling, you just don't feel like yourself or you just don't necessarily feel that attractive. And so my treat to myself was to go to the North Strium beauty counter and just let somebody like have at it with me. And I ended up with a bunch of not a bunch, but like several products from a couple of brands, and then I've just kind of kept that look ever since. And now it does feel a little bit weird to leave the house without at least some like, you know, tinted moisturizers, sunscreen type product, and mascara at the very minimum. And I do think there's a little age relatedness to that, because I don't think I felt particularly unadorned or bare face when I was thirty, but hey, yeah, although the key thing still is that it needs to be a very short regimen. I'm not going to spend a ton of time on it. And it's always one of the things that sort of has annoyed me, like whenever I do television or something that's filmed and you have to do makeup and it takes like thirty minutes to get it on. I mean, I get it. I know that they have to do a lot of it for the camera lights and stuff, but it's like, oh my god, you're just sitting in this fair and I think makeup is one of those eighty twenty things, like twenty percent of the work gets you eighty percent of the way there, or in my case, maybe like ten percent. Like, yeah, I think doing something is so much better, at least for me than doing nothing. I know it's not the one hundred percent I could get by sitting in a chair with a makeup artist for thirty minutes or something like that, but like it's actually it's not like it's ten percent as good. It's actually closer to the optimal than you would think. No, that's true, and certainly television. I mean I've always laughed about it, like if I've been on a morning show and had my makeup done and then I have to take the train back to Philly or something after it and looking like I was just out. You know, it's as bad as Shakespeare probably thought it was the amount of makeup all over my face being on the train at like ten in the morning, so have had a few particular moments of that. How about clothing, you are, I mean he did this session on accessories, which what do you mean by accessories? By the way, Yeah, well, I will say we got a little bit more into basics related to clothing as well. I didn't want to focus on clothing specifically because I had actually already worked with Lannie and Linder from Real Lifestyle, who's like a you know, a private stylist who works with clients on the kind of a more one on one way, and I didn't need as much help in that department. But accessories is where I have definitely like I need I need help. I don't have good jewelry or I don't know, I just never I always feel like I'm missing like one piece or something like that. And the person I worked with was amazing. She was just really she had a lot of like generalities to share, like okay, when you're petite, like choose this over this, or like think about this color family and that kind of thing. So it wasn't necessarily focusing on like where this exact kind of necklace, although we did get into some of that, but the kind of more general concept stuff was really really helpful and fun. Yeah, I've done some clothes styling stuff. I wrote about it in one hundred and sixty eight hours. I definitely recommend if you are ever aiming to spend a larger amount of money on clothes for some reason. Maybe it's you know, either your body shape has changed for some reason, or you're starting a different sort of job, or move to an entirely different climate, or whatever it is that might necessitate a wardrobe refresh. It's just going to be more efficient to have somebody tell you the right stuff to buy, as opposed to you know, you not knowing, for instance, and maybe spending money on things that you don't really wind up wearing. Yeah, I mean, in my experience, not just more efficient, But I have to say that expertise means that most of the pieces that I worked with with Lannie are things that are really really lasting, like that I will likely keep for years and years and years. And I don't necessarily have such good luck on my own. I don't think such a high ratio of things I have chosen on my own have ended up being pieces that I've worn over and over again. So, I mean, I know it's a little questionable to say that, like spending out on someone who's going to help you, spend lots of money on clothes saves money, but honestly, in the long run, it may at least pay for itself. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's learn some more. We're going to answer some great questions that people have sent in as well about makeup in this next session. So looking forward to hearing from Jenny and Rebecca. Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Jenny and Rebecca to the program. We'll start by having you guys introduce yourself. Jenny, can you start? Yeah, So, my name is Jenny Eversol, and I'm the founder of style Space, which, as Laura and Sarah mentioned already, it's a virtual styling platform where you can connect and get expert style coaching from hair, clothing, and makeup stylists. And I founded this company about two years ago from an idea that I had as a fashion designer, and we basically wanted to bring something to everyday women who struggled with style challenges like myself. That's awesome, and Rebecca, can you introduce yourself as well? Hi, thank you, it's so great to be here. I am Rebecca Kirkwood. I am a clean makeup artist and an instructor, and I specialize in natural looks and clean, non toxic beauty and stinkcare, and I am one of the clean makeup artists working with stock Space. Rebecca, since I did a session with you, maybe you can talk about what goes on in a virtual session. I mean, for anyone who's not done this sort of thing before, how does it work to do a virtual makeup session? Sure? I know it's really fun to do virtual sessions. We come on and take a look at your products. So if we're doing a makeup bag makeover, we'll look at your products virtually. You'll hold them up. I might have you sample some of it on your skin so I can see you. A big part of it also is, of course, making sure I can see you, so I'll make sure you're set up for success with your lighting and your setup in advance. And then if we do a makeup lesson together, we will take turns back and forth, so I will demonstrate how to do a technique on my face, and then I'll pause and let you do your turn, and I'll give you tips and kind of correct you and talk you through it as you go. Yeah, that's what I did with Rebecca a few weeks ago. If she would demonstrate, I would attempt to do it myself. I mean, you know, it's for people who've ever had makeup done. You know, obviously the makeup artists would do your makeup, but you are learning the technique like sort of see her do it, then you do it, And so the idea is you're learning the skills at the same time, right exactly. Yeah, well, let's talk about some of those skills, Rebecca, because I mean, I'm very curious what you see people do wrong all the time. I'm sure as a makeup artist you were walking around constantly like I can't believe they're doing that. What are there some of the biggest mistakes you see? Yeah, you know, I won't preface it and say, you know, makeup is there's no like hard fast rules with makeup, right, and we can show our creativity through makeup. And I love that. So I have like my signature style and what I think looks really beautiful on people. But that's not you know, necessarily to say that everybody's makeup isn't what they had intended it to look like. Right that being said, I do think there are some sort of basic makeup quote mistakes that I see that are things we can could, you know, work on all. So for example, just using way too much makeup. It's so simple, but sometimes that's sort of the easiest thing to correct. People will ask things like, oh, my skin is caking or pooling or creasing, or my foundation doesn't look right and my concealer doesn't look right. And when I ask them to show me what they use or how they do it, immediately I can tell them, well, you're using like twice or three times as much product as you really need to be using, and that's why it's just not working. So I would suggest to everybody is just like, pull back and use less makeup, use thin layers and really let your skin shine through and it'll be probably an improvement. And some other makeup mistakes using colors and products that just aren't right for them. So maybe they know how to do their makeup or they love their products, but it's just not the right one for them. And I think that's a big part of why working with experts like the people on style Space for example, can help because sometimes that's really hard to figure out, you know, what is the right product for you. And generally I find maybe the shade is just off, the foundation's shade is wrong, or the concealer shade is wrong, the eyeshadows just isn't necessarily complementary to the person. And that's something that you can easily fix, you know, just like you would when you're fixing your styling or anything else. You're learning about yourself and figuring out what works for you. And then one other mistake I see a lot is not using the makeup in the way that it's intended to be used. And talk about this a lot as makeup artists with contouring. I mean, that's really hot right now. People are learning how to do their makeup on YouTube and Instagram. Right We're all watching I do it myself because most of my feet is his makeup, right, So I'm scrolling and I'm watching people doing their makeup, and I'm like, oh my god. First of all, like I said before, using so much makeup, they're covering their whole face in it, right, and it's not necessarily what what it's intended to do. Right, We're not trying to like restructure our entire face with makeup, which is what I'm seeing people do, which is really cool, right, Like that could be a thing, and some people might want to do that, and there might be times and opportunities where that's appropriate. But I would say right now, less is more with contring. We could talk more about it, but I see women walking around with you know, lines and stripes all over their face, and I'm like, what are you doing to yourself? You're making your life really difficult, you know. So, yeah, trends change a lot too change. Well, it's funny. I mean it may be fine for, as you said, certain circumstances, but I'm not sure your circumstances like your Tuesday morning staff meetings, right, yeah, yeah, so for you know, just sticking with Rebecca here, for women who do have you know, busy lives, mornings are getting kids ready for school, they got to get themselves ready for work and set what are kind of the you know, the minimalist tools you would suggest, you know, our listeners. As Sarah and I were discussing earlier, we probably didn't wear a whole lot of makeup when we were younger, but as we get a little bit older, it may be hoove us to have a little bit of help, especially as you know, maybe we're not always getting as much sleep or as doing and youthful as we used to be. But what of the minimalist tools you would recommend that women have in their makeuppect, Like, what are sort of the basic products we should all have. Yeah, that's a great question. So I think there are some basics that every person can have, and then you can add to it, you know, depending on what you have going on. But I would start with your complexion. So maybe one complexion product like a tinted moisturizer or a tinted facial oil or a foundation, you know, depending on what sort of look you want, how much coverage you want, So that would be one. And for some people that could just be their concealer, you know, so it doesn't have you don't have to necessarily have like a whole lot of phase coverage. So a concealer, a tinted moisturizer or foundation, something for your complexion, and then something to help you look more like alive or bright, something to bring some life to your face. So that could be a blush or a brownser or both. You know, if you want to play around the stuff and then helping you look more awake. I would say those products would be mascara and some sort of a brow product, whether that's a brow gel or a brow pencil. But as soon as we open up the eyes and add some definition to the eyes, it can really transform the whole entire face. And I tell people, if you're really really low on time, just put some mascara on, maybe brush your brows a touch of blush, and you can use that same blush on your lips if it's a cream product, and you can really do a whole face of makeup in five minutes or so. If that's all you have, awesome. Well we are going to take a quick ad break and we will be back with Rebecca Kirkwood and Jenny Eversol with style Space. So we are back talking with Rebecca Kirkwood and Jenny Eversol from style Space, which is virtual styling service. Sarah and I both did sessions with them learning about various things. We're starting with Rebecca right now, just talking about makeup. That's what I did with her. And I find it interesting that you just said, you know you want to look awake, you put on mass era and a brow thing. Because I think a lot of us when we think, oh well I look asleep because I have Dirk circles under my eyes, the first thing we think about is I should like cake on, like the foundation under my eyes. So maybe you need to repeat that for the folks listening here. Now, do you really look awake getting sort of not getting rid of but or at least taking attention away from circles under the eyes. Yeah. Absolutely. I do think a big part of makeup and why it's so great is that it can distract people, you know, and you have control over what you want people to look at. So, especially for women over forty, I say, don't worry about piling on a lot of coverage necessarily, although I do think a little bit of a concealer under the eye goes a long way. But if you put some black mescera on and put a little definition on your brow, your eye area gets lifted. People are looking at you in the eyes when they're talking to you, you know, when you're meeting somebody on the street or at work. That's what they're looking at. They're not looking at your dark circles. They're you know, looking at the definition around your eye. Really similar to if you have like a really nice photo or picture, putting a black frame around that all of a sudden, it makes the picture look so much better. Right, I have a makeup related question. Obviously there are all different skin tones and skin types and all those kinds of things, but you definitely do some specific product racks. I know you had fun doing that with Laura and she had fun shopping. Do you have any magical products out there that you feel like benefit like ninety five percent of the people who try them, like some wonders that tend to kind of work for everyone in building that streamlined routine. Yeah, there are some great products out there. I think having a multi use product is something that everybody can have and make use out of. So for example, that could be something like a multi stick by Ilia. They make a really great cream product. It could be used on the cheeks, it can be used on the eyes, it can be used on the lips. So I love that because you can even toss it in your bag and literally do your makeup in the car if you have to or when you're traveling, which is really awesome. Another brand, Beauty Counter, makes a really lovely cream blush that comes in a little compact, which is really great for travel, and it has a mirror built into it, so I think that that's really handy because we're not often traveling or going to work with a mirror. And then Cosss makes some really lovely brow products, both a brow pencil and a brow gel that are really universal. The brow gel can be invisible like a shade that's clear, so you don't even have to worry about color matching. You can just brush your brows similar to as if you were, you know, putting hairspray in your hair. You don't have to worry about the shade. You're just putting the brows in its place and making your face look a little bit more defined. Yes, I will say that I had no idea that that was a thing that you could sort of put stuff on your brows, or should I guess for that matter. I mean, I've seen some people do brows really badly over the years, like you know, it looks like, you know, you light coloring and you have like a huge dark streak across your face and your eyebrows, and so I sort of assumed that that was what the products were, but it turns out no, that's not Yep, you can do it differently. Yeah, And I think we have a sort of question from listeners about you mentioned as we get older, we might want to have a little bit of foundation on a little bit of coverage. Way to think about finding one that matches because of course, you know, people have a million different skin tones and there are a lot of different products out there, and thankfully more than there used to be. I mean, it used to be like you were white or you weren't right, you know, but now there's a lot more, which is great, but it also makes it even sort of more challenging to figure out what's quite match. So how should we think about Yeah, this is actually finding foundation and matching concealer is probably one of the hardest things for my clients that I work with. And I would say first, when you're thinking about color matching, step back and think about your actual physical coloring. So same thing when you're thinking about what kind of clothes you're wearing, are you cool toned or warm toned? Most people fall into one of those categories or they're in between, like a neutral. So for example, if you know you burn really easily, or you're fairly fair, you look really good and silver and light like cool tones, blues and things like that. We used to talk about coloring like back in the eighties and nineties, like what season you are, Like if you're a winter okay, so that might be somebody who's cool toned. And if you're warm or golden, you might tan more easily. You might look really nice in gold or more like jewel tones things like that. So you can sort of start there and get a sense of like you have to have sort of an inner conversation with yourself, like what kind of skin tone do I have? You can also look at the back of your wrist and look at your veins and see like are they really blue and purple or is your skin sort of translucent? That might mean that you're a little bit more cool toned. I would say a lot of people fall in that neutral spot. Okay. So once you sort of decide what your coloring is, if you go to the websites of the brands that you're shopping from, these there are tools now. They make it so easy, like color maps tools which did not exist before. I almost think it's easier to color match online than it is in person. These days when you're shopping, like in a store, it could be kind of endless, you know, options, But online they'll break it down. Are you fair, are you light? Are you medium? Are you tan? Are you dark? Are you deep? And you can figure out by looking at the models. Okay, I have a sort of a sense of where I fall in that spectrum, and then you look at the descriptions. Are you a medium cool? Are you a medium warm? You know, this is where you sort of decide at that point where you fall in the spectrum. It's not a perfect science, but that's where I usually start. And then if you are shopping in person, if you're at a store, find the category of shade that you're in. Are you light, are you medium? Are you tan? Are you dark? And then pick the three shades that look closest to what you think it is. And then you do a swipe down your cheek and down your neck a little bit, try and find some natural light if there's a window in the store, if possible, and just do that little stripes down your neck and ideally it will just blend and almost disappear into your neck. And that's what we're looking for when we want a color match. Excellent advice, or you could just get Rebecca to tell you that's that's your other option too. Yeah, So, I mean, Jenny, I would love to turn with you a little bit here. You could talk about, like what are the occasions that somebody should seek out a stylist, Like what when would you recommend that somebody look into hiring a stylist, or like what do people tend to come to you guys for? Yeah, So people come to us for any and all occasions, whether it's like your every day you're just try to curate your wardrobe or your makeup bag or your hair product selection. Because majority of people in America, so it's the eighty twenty rule, and you wear twenty percent of your things eighty percent of the time, and so it creates a lot of stress and just overwhelm every morning when you could justify your life and get everything in your closet, everything in your makeup bag that you love. So it could be for every day, it could be for special occasion. It could be for you're starting a new chapter in your life. You've had transitions in your body. I know that we hear this a lot. COVID ten you've either lost or gained ten and people uses as an opportunity to revamp their style if you're looking for a new work wardrobe. A lot of people have shifted their working styles from working from home to maybe a hybrid schedule, so this is a really great tool to help that. And just similar to the way that you would work with a mechanic or a plumber, you're wearing clothing every single day, You're wearing products on your skin and in your hair, and having an expert guide that process can save you a lot of time, effort, and money. Do you find a lot of people signing up for services like around certain milestone birthdays example, Yeah, definitely, like Mother's Day. We had a lot of bookings for their mothers and yeah, birthdays for example, or starting a new job and they want to celebrate that milestone and that achievement in their career. Yeah. Now, I thought it was definitely an interesting experience. I mean just it's funny where some makeup for like years, but I haven't really thought about much how to do it. And there are like those little things about like well what makes you look awake, you know, the brows and the mascara versus the stuff under the eyes. Necessarily that you probably aren't necessarily thinking about. So yeah, well it's definitely I could. Yeah, I find that like these stylists that they've been in the industry for decades and they have so much experience and wisdom to share with you that like, this is not our job to know these things every single day, it's their job, and they can prepare the way for you so you don't have to spend all that time. I'm endlesslie scrolling through YouTube and Instagram though it's fun, but that content is met for a mass audience and to meet your individual needs. Like, how do you know if you have hooded eyes, for example, unless someone told you that, And there's a lot of you don't know what you don't know until you work with a stylist. And yeah, you can get amazing results with minimal effort and time. Awesome, Although speaking of the whole Instagram and YouTube thing, I wonder if either of you have recommendations. We have this question from listeners videos people to follow whose content is aimed at adult women who are leading the Tuesday staff meeting, as opposed to wishing to look like you know somebody on the keeping up with the Kardashians or whatever. Are there any content producers that you guys really like and would recommend? I think Ky Washington is a makeup artist. She is a makeup artist with me in a clean Beauty Artist program. She is incredible, uses clean products and it's all very natural looking. But she's a little bit more like on the glam side too, which I think is fun. And then Kristin Arnette is also a celebrity makeup artist, very natural looking, you're not going to get major crazy, you know, contouring sort of looks. And also Katie Dunno, which is a celebrity makeup artist. She can do some really beautiful work, and I think her recommendations and tips that she posts on Instagram are very accessible for every day awesome Awesome. We may get some of those names, so we can share those in this show notes as well. Really, Corul, well, we always end with a love of the week. So these are the things that we are finding really cool, and so Sarah and I can go first if you guys want a moment or two to think about it. Although we've gotten some good productations already, I will start that I really liked Rebecca's recommendations of the Alia stuff that I've been using their foundation and concealer and their multi stick I guess as you said, and have found that to be very usable and it's very quick to put on. So I'll give a shout out to those. So I've enjoyed using that. Well, how about you. Mine is a little bit more. I actually might have used this as a prior level of the week, but I have to give a shout out to the Allure Beauty Box. I've been getting this every month the last I don't know, six to nine months, and you know, other subscription boxes are a sort of hit or miss, but in this box, there's usually at least one, if not two things that I really really like and the box is like twenty five dollars a month. And for example, there was this cream. It was by a brand called avant Ava and t it's like a college and cream. I'm like, this stuff is really nice. I'm like, maybe I'll go buy it. I mean, came in this twenty five dollars box and I'm like, oh, well, I probably won't buy excess one hundred and twenty dollars and that would be a little bit of a I mean maybe I will who knows, but like, what an amazing value that it came in this twenty five dollars box, And I guess that's just a testament to how much cosmetics are probably marked up a lot of the time, but you just get some really nice deals and honestly, like the truth is, it comes every month and there's usually something else that I really like. So as long as I don't mind bouncing around from brand to brand, I feel like it's a great way to try out a lot of really nice luxury skincare and a few beauty products at a reasonable price. Awesome good endorsement there, Rebecca, or well, yeah, Rebecca, why don't you start with yours? Sure? So there is one trend on Instagram that's been going around the last few weeks where people place their makeup products on their face at the same time. So they'll put bronzer and blush on and maybe a highlighter on their face all at once, and then you blend it. So I have been playing around with this and it's cool. I think it is a little bit of a time saver since you're only blending once, but it works really well if you're using cream products. So I'm applying my bronzer, a little blush, even a little concealer, and I blend it all and it's great, especially if you have a booty blender. It's really it's fun. So try it. All right, that's the next tip. And Jenny, how about you, what's on? What are you loving this week? I really love being a Borrean touch up pen. It's a concealer pen and you just put it underneath your eyes and it just really light like puts more life into your eyes and widens them. Wonderful. All right, well, this has been great talking with you guys. Jenny, can you remind us where we can find you all online and how our listeners could look you guys up. Yeah. Style space dot com is where you can book a styling session in any category from clothing, hair, makeup, and skincare, and you can also download a free ebook to start your five steps to achieving your dream style. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for joining. Yes, we really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Thank you so much. All right, well, that was so much fun. We are back with the question portion of this episode. This question comes from a listener who says she is a full time working mom with a husband and a nine year old daughter. She is in a lead position for a small nonprofit busy household, also coordinating care for aiding parents. Her question initially was about negotiating work from home one day a week or leaving early a couple of days a week, because she has all this stuff going on with appointments for aging parents and such like this. Now, of course it sounds a little strange, like what negotiating to work from home? Isn't that like a twenty eighteen question, Like, I don't think we got that question since twenty nineteen, because, of course, huge chunks of our listeners have been working from home some number of days per week during the course of COVID, and it's not so much about negotiating it. Now. It seems like a lot of organizations are negotiating to get people back into the office one day a week. I mean, it's really an entirely different thing. But it turns out not where this particular listener works, So she says previously asking for flexibility may have impacted her pay. She believes she was given a smaller raise in some previous junctures because she had taken some flexibility. She's been back in the office full time for a year and it's been taking its full attempting to manage the care of her parents. She wants some more flexibility because she has to be in the place basically forty hours a week, clocking in, clacking out, even though some of this is definitely sort of the informational work that could be done at home. So she's wondering what she should do. Should she approach this in a certain way of asking for flexibility, or should she maybe try to find a new position that would offer her the ability to work from home have a little bit more flexibility. So, Tara, what do you think? Yeah, my thought is that I guess I'm just really disappointed. You've been in this role a really long time, which means that you've probably been giving more than you've been taking from this company, or you wouldn't still be there. And I guess it's just surprising to me that they're not doing more to support your desires for a bit more flexibility at this juncture. And so I do think that probably the way to I don't know, prove your value or make them rethink your value is to job search. If you can I'm not saying necessarily to leave, but hey, look around, because you may be surprised that you're able to find some other options that are either mostly remote or incredibly flexibility on how you use that remoteness. And even if you truly don't want to leave your current position, you could use an offer. Maybe you find an offer that's like eighty percent remote and say, hey, I'm going to leave unless you give me like one day or two days a week to be remote, and that might actually be able to kind of get you what you want at your current position, or you will find something better. You mentioned your age is something that you were worried about, but I don't think that being you know, just over fifty is going to be a hindrance in the job market at this point. I mean a lot of leadership positions are offered to people in that age range who said you were eighty. That might be a little bit different, but I don't know. I just it sounds like where you are. They sound a little micromanagerie to me, and I think it's probably worth looking elsewhere. I won't throw out the idea of part time. I mean, if you truly feel like you just do not want to look at anything work related on any Friday or something, and you feel like you have the job structure that could support that and you can financially do it. You know that that would be one option, but you'd have to figure out how that work that you're missing would be covered so that you're not forced to try to basically do forty hours of week in thirty two hours, which is probably just going to be very stressful and not actually feasible. Yeah, it is strange that this is like the one organization that didn't adopt remote work. I mean, I don't know what are they thinking. Who knows have they heard about the Great Resignation? I would agree with Sarath, there's you're a downside to looking for a job, Like you're absolutely allowed to go hunt for a job if you want. It, doesn't mean you have to take it. You're just seeing what is out there. And there are definitely jobs in the nonprofit universe that are going to be fully remote or in the office two days a week, which might be a lot better for you, or maybe they're fully flexible, like you're in the office when you need to be, and you aren't when you aren't, and you can you know, build this life that allows you to deal with your other responsibilities around that. So I would say, see what's out there network hard, really ask yourself if there's things in adjacent fields that you might be interested in doing. You're not committing yourself to anything. You're just seeing what's out there, seeing who's interested in you. You may wind up offered a wonderful position that you're like, I can't believe I worked for these people for so many years because this was there. It may be that it's pretty similar, but you're just you know, you can then make a choice, is it enough better to go or can I use this as a leverage see it more of what I want out of my current job. I would say, you know, especially as PEP will get older, sometimes there are certain aspects of a job that they have built up and accrued over time. So as you mentioned more you have a lot of vacation time, for instance, you probably are pretty good benefits on things like that. Just make a list of what those are, like what you absolutely need in that and if you definitely want at least you know, twenty vacation that days per year, like, go into your negotiations for a new job with that in mind, and you know you might be able to get it. I mean, who knows. Like I think it's just we're not like we have to know what we're comparing this current job too. And it's possible that there's nothing out there that's as good, but I feel like that's highly unlikely. There's probably something out there that's pretty similar that you could you could be doing and that might be a little bit more appreciative of your time and agree. Awesome, Well, you'll have to follow up and let us know, let us know what you do, all right. Well, this has been best of both worlds. We have been talking all things style, makeup, accessories, et cetera. We will be back next week with more on making work and life pit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.