304 | Facilitating CPRT With Challenging Parent Dynamics

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Tess in Illinois.

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And this is specifically about coaching parents.

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We have been talking a lot about CPRT.

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I know I mentioned a couple episodes ago that we

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are launching the certification program with Corwell for CPRT training.

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Very excited about that.

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And for those of you that are already using CPRT.

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Thank you for working with parents.

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We know

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that parents statistically

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have

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more impact

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as far as change in their families than we do,

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and that's meaningful to be able to take advantage

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of relationships and history and connections that are already there

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amongst parent and child versus trying to start

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from scratch with the therapist and child.

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So Tess's question is about working with parents who

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have disorders and therefore it makes it a little

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bit difficult to teach CCPT skills to them.

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So I'll read parts of her email and then we'll dive in together.

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I've noticed that several parents I'm working with have personality disorders,

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either borderline or narcissistic.

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I'm finding it difficult to effectively teach these parents CCP

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CCPT parenting skills,

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gosh,

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say that fast,

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when they struggle with insight or providing

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unconditional positive regard to their children.

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I would appreciate any thoughts.

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All right,

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Tess,

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thank you for this.

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One of the things that we need to

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start off with from the very beginning.

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I

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vetting

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our CPRT parents.

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And really what that means practically speaking is

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not every parent is the right fit.

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Just like not every family and or child is the right fit for CCPT.

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And

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I mean,

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almost always kids are the right fit for CPR CCPT,

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but often the circumstances or the parent's

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dynamic or the parent's personalities or whatever,

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you know,

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if a parent says,

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I want you to

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take care of this in 4 weeks.

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That's

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not congruent with CCPT.

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If a parent says,

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you need to fix my child,

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this is 100% my child's problem and you need to fix them.

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That is not adherent to CCPT.

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So

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we recognize that sometimes we have to either say,

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I'm not sure that this is the right fit or

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we have discussions to where we can get to a

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point where we're all on the same page at least

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that we think that this is a viable option.

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Even if it's not necessarily an easy fit,

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but we can all get on the same page with it.

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So specifically with

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the vetting of parents,

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one of the things that is important to keep in mind,

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there has to be a cognitive capacity

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for

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the parent to actually learn and integrate skills.

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I worked with a stroke victim

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in CPRT once,

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and she,

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because of her stroke,

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she could not remember things.

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And about halfway through CPRT I realized

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even though she really is trying hard and she's taking all

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these notes and she really wants to learn this stuff,

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her brain will not allow her to remember it post stroke.

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I had another parent I worked with

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that had had a traumatic brain injury.

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And she had working memory and cognitive delays because of it,

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and she struggled mightily

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with CPRT,

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not because

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she didn't want to learn it,

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not because it didn't matter,

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not because she took it flippantly,

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her brain just really was not able to make

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sense of the information that she was learning.

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So

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this would apply in a grand scale to personality disorders as well.

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Certain types of parents

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because of

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language barriers,

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because of cognitive delays,

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because of disorders,

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because of

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whatever you name it,

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fill in the blank,

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they're going to have a more difficult time than others

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integrating CPRT knowledge.

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It's not to say that it's impossible.

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It's just it's going to be a different process,

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sometimes a harder process.

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We need to think through that before we start working with parents.

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Typically

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there are certain personalities of parents that are very well suited for CPRT,

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and then there are certain personalities of parents that

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don't seem to be the most ideal fit.

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It doesn't mean that it can't work with anyone.

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It just means that we have to be considerate

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of where the difficulties might be,

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what obstacles we might be up against,

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and therefore how to address those.

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So Tess,

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when you're mentioning borderline and narcissism,

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those are

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issues that are going to

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get in the way

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of them being able to focus on relationship with their children.

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That's the whole premise of CPRT.

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That's why it's called child parent relationship.

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The whole notion is that you're working to create a different relationship

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with your children

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and with borderline and narcissism,

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they're going to struggle relationally.

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It's not to say it doesn't have any influence,

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it's not to say it can't work,

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it may just not move the needle as far.

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And another consideration is

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we have to be really patient.

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We are sometimes expecting parents to rewire their entire brains.

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In other words,

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they have to think differently,

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speak differently,

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respond differently,

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understand differently,

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communicate differently,

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basically undo everything they've ever done.

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And this is not a quick process.

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This is not an easy fix,

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and 10 weeks is actually very short.

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So sometimes we don't even see a whole lot of evidence

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in that 10 week curriculum

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that

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parents are really getting it,

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that they're actually able to integrate these.

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We usually see small changes,

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sometimes we see monumental changes,

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but often

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it's slow and think about it,

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we

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know that the average for children is 30 to 40 weeks.

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If we're only meeting with a parent 10 times,

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we wouldn't expect a child

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to monumentally change in 10 weeks in the playroom.

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So therefore we have to have realistic expectations of timeline for them.

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Sometimes they're going to have to have longer

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before this sinks in and before they're able to actually

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really consistently integrate this new knowledge that they're learning.

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They have to basically start over from scratch a lot of the times.

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So even with something like borderline or narcissism,

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that can certainly be a hindrance,

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but it's also sometimes just being patient

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because

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if they really truly want

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a relationship with their children,

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they really truly want

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to change,

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they want the outcome to be different,

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it might be really slow,

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but it doesn't mean that it won't happen.

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We typically encourage parents to continue doing play

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sessions long after that 10 week curriculum.

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Why?

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Because the child's only had 7 play sessions

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at the end of that 10 week window.

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7 play sessions,

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that's a fraction of what kids need.

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And as long as parents remain consistent and they

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continue to do that 30 minute special playtime,

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parents continue to change,

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child continues to change,

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relationship continues to change.

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That's the goal.

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As far as those specific disorders tests,

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so borderline and narcissism,

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I would certainly advocate that they are in therapy themselves,

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so you might want to have that discussion

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and see,

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you know,

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what their receptivity is to

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whether or not they are in therapy or whether they would consider therapy.

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You also sometimes have to help parents understand

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that.

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This is not a unilateral change process.

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In other words,

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the child is not the only one changing,

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the parent is not the only one changing.

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It is from all ends.

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So as the parent changes,

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it forces the child to change.

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As the child changes,

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it forces the parent to change.

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As each one of those members change,

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it

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causes the relationship to change.

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As the relationship changes,

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the family dynamic changes,

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and so on and so on.

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So often it's helping parents see

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the bigger picture.

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This isn't just you have to do all kinds of parenting work.

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This isn't just your child needs to develop all

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kinds of self regulation and self-control and emotional vocabulary.

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It's collaborative effort

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where everyone is working toward the common goal

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of

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increase in relationship

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that is healthy

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because everything flows out of a healthy relationship.

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Borderline and narcissism are a hindrance to healthy relationships

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and therefore

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they are sometimes going to have a harder road,

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but it's not impossible,

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and I think it's about being very clear.

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You know,

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clear is kind,

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honest is kind.

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We have to have clear and honest conversations sometimes,

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and sometimes those conversations are not easy,

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but we're always advocating on behalf of the child

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and the child's family.

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If they know,

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like and trust you,

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they will understand why you're bringing up

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difficult topics and having difficult conversations.

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So often you might have to say.

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I understand that this is probably a little bit challenging for you.

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And let's let's process that together.

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CPRT is a lot of

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parent

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discussion.

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Yes,

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there's curriculum,

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but sometimes it's just the parent and you

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talking about life

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and you providing support and encouragement and feedback

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because yes,

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they need to know skills,

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but they also need someone to walk alongside them and help

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and guide,

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and that's our role as a CPRT facilitator.

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So,

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Tess,

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thank you so much for the question.

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I hope that that is helpful.

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For those of you who have never

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used CPRT as a parent coaching curriculum,

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if you are

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fully adherent to child-centered play therapy,

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and it is all you provide,

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CPRT is an incredible

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avenue for providing parent coaching in addition to your work with children.

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So I would highly recommend

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looking into that if you have no background in that.

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And for those of you that are familiar,

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you know the outcomes and you've seen what it does for families,

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and that's one of my favorite things.

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CPRT is not easy to facilitate,

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but the outcomes speak for themselves,

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and when you watch transformation in families

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and in relationships between a parent and child,

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and you see how different their play sessions are over the course of the training.

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It's so encouraging and rewarding.

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So really a special

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additional suite of service that you can offer.

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All right,

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love y'all.

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If you want to reach out,

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please do brenna@heid counselor dot com.

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We'll talk again soon.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.