Andy Guerdat Meets World

00:00:19
Speaker 1: Will.

00:00:20
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:00:21
Speaker 3: I am devastated that I have to ask you this question because I was supposed to be there with you to enjoy it myself, I know, but Jensen and I were not able to join you and Susan on the double date to Yamava. Jensen had surgery earlier in the week and was not ready for a long drive. I know, Nate bargatzi at Yammava with you. Tell me how was it?

00:00:42
Speaker 1: How one? How was the steakhouse? Two? How was the show? Three? How was the venue?

00:00:47
Speaker 4: You missed? You both missed them?

00:00:49
Speaker 2: It was.

00:00:50
Speaker 4: It was a pretty great night. It really was.

00:00:51
Speaker 5: Because first of all, I'd never been to the Amavah before. Huh me neither, And it's like two or three years old, so it's brand new. I mean when I say there was not a piece of paper on the floor. It was the cleanest casino I've ever been in in my life. It is spotless, The rooms gorgeous. They took care of us, you know, checked us in and we get right to our room, and then they brought us up to this bar and that's where we got to meet everybody that everybody from the Yamavas staff, and it was just so cool. I was thinking of both of you the whole time I was there, because the first thing they're like, they came in and they said, oh, we've got this.

00:01:29
Speaker 4: I think it's called the eighty three.

00:01:30
Speaker 5: It's like this list of all of these top shelf alcohols that have been collected all around the world, so it's like some of them are from one hundred years ago. Someone's like they're working on cultivating this list of really specialty drinks where they told us, they go, oh, no, we have a five thousand dollars margarita what where it's like a specialty kind of you know, old school tequila in with the gold rimmed and the glass. You get to keep the glass and it's like a Versace glass or Gucci glass, like some specific kind of handcut thing.

00:02:05
Speaker 4: And then as we're leaving, a.

00:02:07
Speaker 5: Guy's like, excuse me, but I love the podcast, big fan of the show, and I thought you would really like to see this because I think this is something Rider would love. And they go to so they have these lockers all set up with you can join this club where if you have specialty alcohol, they go into the locker thing and.

00:02:23
Speaker 4: They'll save it for you. But then he goes watch this, and.

00:02:26
Speaker 5: He reaches behind this thing and he presses a button, the secret button, and the whole front opens up and there's a speakeasy inside that's Now you're in a walk in humidor with cigars from all over the world that's only has four little tables in there.

00:02:40
Speaker 4: And oh, this is the rider Strong room right here.

00:02:43
Speaker 5: And then we go down to the casino and I'm like, and now we're in Daniel, so top of the line spa it was, we could they then they brought us to the steakhouse and they were doing the first the specialty they thing they had that night was it was a pasta courus that's cooked and burned off in the cheese wheel.

00:03:06
Speaker 1: Oh, I love it when they do it in the cheese wheel.

00:03:08
Speaker 5: So they brought the big parmesan wheel out in front of our table. Yeah, they burn off the vodkas, homemade pichi bukatini, which is like my favorite, like the thick kind of spaghetti, all just in this amazing possible. That was our appetizer, and then you're picking all the steaks you want. We had these perfectly cooked steaks, and then we went to the show twenty five hundred seat theater. Gorgeous theater, wonderful seats right at the top. Nate Bargatzi. This is the end of his tour. He'd been doing this big, long tour and this is the very last episode. His openers were great, but then he got on.

00:03:42
Speaker 4: He did like a ninety minute set. He was up there forever, just by himself.

00:03:46
Speaker 5: He crushed it soon and I then tried to gamble, which we suck at. I mean, we walked around with money in our hands, going, I don't know what to play because when we go to the slot machines, all the slot machines are just you put your money and it sucks it in like you've never owned it. And then I don't know what's happening, and then all the money's God, it was like, I don't know what the hell just happened. So we were tried to sit at a few tables, but we're just we realized we're just not We're like not gamblers, right, But it got even you know, so we're sitting at dinner and you know, we were all supposed to go together, the four of us, but a couple of the women who set this whole thing up said do you mind if we have dinner with you at soon? We're like, yes, please. We just talked to each other all the time. We're sick of each other, so yes, other people at the table will be great. And they sat down with us, and halfway through the meal, she looked over and she said, Okay, we would really love to have you guys come and do the pod here.

00:04:43
Speaker 4: We will take care of you.

00:04:45
Speaker 5: Do we want the spa all as like the spa, the casino, the Rider Strong Room. I was like, I don't think it's gonna be too much of an arm twist to have us go there and record a couple of episodes at this gorgeous casino. The property is absolutely stunning. Like we'll take you down to the spot, we'll do all this stuff, Like we'll totally take prid of you. Co We would love for you to come and do the podcast here at the al that's something we have to do. And they said, we can pick a show that it'll be around and the entertainment they're getting Mariah Carey ed Sheeran in this twenty five hundred seat theater. So you're seeing what seems like a you know, arena, huge but right, but it's this this.

00:05:25
Speaker 1: I'm saying arena show, intimate.

00:05:28
Speaker 5: Intimate venue. And so it's just one banger after the next that are going there. So they're like, pick a show we can, We'll have you guys, come to the show. You'll go to the casino, will comp everything, we will do podcasts.

00:05:40
Speaker 4: You're gonna love it. We're gonna have so much fun. Go to the steakhouse.

00:05:43
Speaker 5: The steakhouse they ate we ate at just won the number one casino restaurant in the country, like beat all the Vegas restaurants.

00:05:50
Speaker 1: Everything them in will I'm in.

00:05:53
Speaker 5: You missed you both missed out on a seriously fun night.

00:05:56
Speaker 4: And again it was an hour and it took a while to get there.

00:05:59
Speaker 5: We left in a Friday, but the drive back on Saturday it was like an hour and fifteen minutes home.

00:06:02
Speaker 2: It was nothing.

00:06:03
Speaker 4: And so it was it was great. Well, thank you, it was awesome.

00:06:07
Speaker 1: We will have to make a trip there. A family trend.

00:06:11
Speaker 5: Oh look at you, which, by the way, like even when they deliver your car the next day, you walk it in and there's two waters sitting in your car too, yamava waters waiting for you.

00:06:20
Speaker 4: Top of the line. This is awesome.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod meets World. I'm Daniel Fishl, I'm writer strong, and I do not know how to gamble.

00:06:28
Speaker 4: I'm Wilford.

00:06:29
Speaker 1: I'll teach you well, I'll teach you please.

00:06:32
Speaker 2: It's awful.

00:06:44
Speaker 1: When we are.

00:06:45
Speaker 3: Recapping an episode and we see a writer's name who we remember. It's a nice feeling of nostalgia. But you know what else is kind of a cool feeling when a writer's name pops up and we don't remember them at all.

00:06:57
Speaker 1: It's a mystery.

00:06:59
Speaker 3: We want Saul immediately, and that is the case with season five's Andy Gerdat. Andy wrote two episodes in season five, Fraternity Row and a very Topanga Christmas, then mysteriously didn't have another script for the rest of the season or the run of the show. He already had quite a resume before he joined Boymet's World somehow, beginning his career in the Jefferson's Writer's Room as a first job, and then working on Morcan Mindy, Head of the Class, Empty Nest, Full House, Sister Sister, and his own show that he co created for Fox, Herman's.

00:07:35
Speaker 4: Head Great Show, Such a Yes.

00:07:38
Speaker 3: And after this outstanding sitcom run, he jumped headfirst into animated kids shows, entering a third and Emmy nominated category of his career on shows like Sheriff Cally's Wild West, super Normal, Fancy Nancy, and Paw Patrol, working NonStop even after a whopping thirty five years in the business. To say that is rare for a TV writer would be an incredible understatement. And so today we welcome a very esteemed TV writer whose work we all know, yet we don't know him at all. It's time to talk to season five Boy Meets World writer and the man who could introduce Marshall and Chase to my kids. It's Andy Gridatt. Andy, thank you so much for joining us. We are honored that you said, yes, I know Jensen tracked you down with an old home phone number to mind you, so I hope we didn't scare you.

00:08:33
Speaker 4: Kale five.

00:08:38
Speaker 2: Very very interesting and exciting. Yeah that I don't even know how he got the old We're about to get rid of the landline anyway, and.

00:08:44
Speaker 3: Well now you definitely have to because Jensen is your number. Well, one of the many reasons we wanted to have you on the podcast is you spent just season five on Boy Meets World in what has been in an incredibly impressive career in TV, and though your name was familiar, we could not place your face. Did they keep you away from us in some sort of don't feed the animals situation?

00:09:12
Speaker 2: Or they very much did. I think they were saving you guys from me. It was an odd thing I was. I was a freelance writer, so I was not there every day. I never met you guys.

00:09:28
Speaker 4: Have a pretty good memory, and I was like, I don't.

00:09:30
Speaker 2: Remember even for writers. Yeah, I kind of disappeared in the wall. Well would work there, but yeah, no they I never met you guys because they I'm not even sure they invited me to the taping. Wow, I remember, But it was one of those situations back then. It's different now, but in those days, they a typical network show would use some freelance freelance writers, right so that the staff couldn't keep up with the pace without some help. And so I had worked with Bob Tishler on Empty Nest. I've done four episodes of Empty Nest work and he needed some help, and so he called me in and so I just did them. You know. I came in and I met with the staff, but I never met with anybody else. So I have no good stories. I'm sorry, I have no I'm not going to be any entertaining stories.

00:10:25
Speaker 3: Listen, we don't even need entertaining stories about our set. We'll just take any entertaining stories you have period.

00:10:31
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll try to manage those.

00:10:33
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:10:34
Speaker 3: Well, before we get into your non stories of Boy Meets World, I want to talk about the genesis of your writing career and how someone ends up with The Jeffersons as their first writer's room.

00:10:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I say, that was it seems like another It was another era in television. There were three networks when I came out to LA writing. So, and I've mentioned this to any times the people when I started writing, there were there was one black sitcom writer in all of Hollywood, guy named Thad Mumford, who I never worked with.

00:11:09
Speaker 4: Uh, Sad was great. Sad wrote for mash all the time.

00:11:11
Speaker 2: You say, yes, he was a very good writer. Yeah, but there was just so. I mean, all these shows like The Jeffersons, which now would have a primarily black writing staff, didn't have any black writers. So it was and because the show had been on the air for quite a while at that point, what happens is you know, they get the writing staff just gets runs out of stories. They just can't think of anything new, so they bring in freelancers to try to sort of come up with something fresh. And so that's that's how that I. You know, I was just pounding my just bear was a kid. I was twenty six, I think five even maybe, and I was just pounding on doors trying to get in. And that was a place you could get in because they'd they'd run out of stories, right. I pitched them some stories and sold one. But I have an entertaining story about that Jefferson's Please Please Okay, So it was called Florence's Union. I don't know if you remember the show, but Florence was Marla Gibbons made right. So it was a story where she formed a union of maids in the building. Okay, you can comedy high jinks and sue. Okay. So we write it, my late partner and I wrote it many years later. If you remember the movie Basic Instinct, Michael j Okay, so infamous movie. So there's a scene when Michael Douglas has been fired from the police force and he's and he's laying on his couch, you know, with a Battle of Scotch or something, and the TV's going in the background and it was playing our episode. And the only reason we knew because on the screen for like a second was Marla Gibbs was holding a sign that said on strike. And so my partner and I happened to see the movie together in a theater. We that's we called the writers Guild, and I think we got a couple hundred bucks out of it. I like to say to the people I co wrote basic.

00:13:01
Speaker 5: Who now at the time, who's running the Jefferson's writers room?

00:13:05
Speaker 2: Oh? God, Bernie Ross And I can't remember his partner's name we worked with. God, are their names of going out of my head? Sorry, I don't remember.

00:13:17
Speaker 1: That's okay.

00:13:18
Speaker 5: So The Jeffersons was a spin off, right, It was a spinoff of All in the.

00:13:21
Speaker 2: Family family, which I then ironically worked for worked on for three seasons. I did Archie Bunker's Place a few years later, which was the actual spinoff of All in the Family.

00:13:32
Speaker 5: So these are all Norman Lear shows, correct, Norman Lear shows, who is the essentially the godfather of the American.

00:13:38
Speaker 2: Sitcom Yes, to a large degree, he is of the modern sitcom.

00:13:42
Speaker 5: Right, correct, Right, I mean he didn't he didn't do stuff like The Honeymooners, which I guess you could go back and say was the start of the family sitcom. But the modern day family sitcom, the all in the families, the Vernon Shirley's all, that's all Norman lear right.

00:13:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it stems to a large degree from Norman. Yes, I mean he was the one who's that who just sort of decided, you know, a sitcom doesn't have to be soft, it could be a g it could be outrageous, and you know people been doing that ever since.

00:14:12
Speaker 4: Right, I'm sorry, I take it back. I think Levernon Shirley was Gary Marshall.

00:14:15
Speaker 2: That was Gary Marshall.

00:14:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was not Yes, geez, some of the biggest ever. That's awesome.

00:14:21
Speaker 1: With your writing partner who you mentioned. What was his name?

00:14:23
Speaker 2: His name was Steve Crimberg. He's passed away since, but yeah, we started out together in nineteen seventy eight, I think was our first credit even and worked together for quite a while and then he sort of got fed up with the business and moved away, and then I went on solo for quite a while, and then I started writing again with a partner then Steve Sullivan. Yeah, and we wrote a lot of cartoons together.

00:14:52
Speaker 3: So well, you went on to Mork and Mindy, Archie Bunker's Place as well as you mentioned, and TV version of nine to five.

00:14:59
Speaker 1: The list goes on on. But I wanted to ask you also about Head of the Class.

00:15:03
Speaker 2: Oh.

00:15:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a massive ratings hit, but allegedly had a lot of egos and issues on set.

00:15:09
Speaker 1: What was that experience like.

00:15:11
Speaker 2: Well, Head of the Class I'm very friendly with I've stayed friendly with most most of the people the writing staff because it was it was sort of like a Bunker mentality, because it was a very difficult show to do. It was a bit too big of a cast. You guys know from you know when you're when you're structuring a sitcom, you don't want to add too many characters because then everybody gets a little bit less and then you can't keep all the actors busy. It makes everything difficult. But for whatever reason, the guys who they were very good writers, but they missed they misconceived the show originally, so we had this huge classroom of kids and then Howard Hessman was the star. But but we just couldn't keep everybody busy, so the set was always in turmoil. The writer's room was fine.

00:15:59
Speaker 3: Though very close with Tony Odell, who is a dialogue coach and I work with a lot on my Disney Channel shows, and Tony Odell is a gem of a human being, and I can't imagine that he was any different back then.

00:16:14
Speaker 2: I again spent very little time on the set, right because I was the guy stuck in the writer's room trying to crank out next week's exactly devising producer on it, and Tony was always fine. I don't know if he if he would confirm or deny some of the difficulties, but I think it was mostly stemmed from actors who were unhappy. Yeah, they didn't have enough to do, which is understandable. And then you have two lines and one of them what happened next, mister Moore?

00:16:44
Speaker 5: Right right, Hessman's first show after Karp wasn't it?

00:16:49
Speaker 2: Yes? It was?

00:16:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, so he was he was coming on. He was a big star by that point.

00:16:52
Speaker 2: He was a pretty big star, and he was also frankly a bit of a grouch and was not happy he'd been sold the idea of the show, which is to say you're the there's two stars you and then the class, but you're going to be the co star of every episode. And it really didn't quite lay out that right.

00:17:09
Speaker 5: Well, they probably pitched him like it was welcome back Catter, like this is your year, mister Catter essentially, but it didn't.

00:17:15
Speaker 2: Quite plan now, and he was not particularly happy with that aspect of it, and probably some other things. I always liked Howard personally whenever I would talk to him off off the set, but on the set he could be pretty grouchy. And anyway it was, it was what it was. You know, it's it's water under the bridge. I look back on that stuff now and just think, oh my god, I cannot believe we were all fighting over Yeah, that joke really well.

00:17:41
Speaker 3: And then you get to create your very own show with Herman's Head one of Fox's first big swings when it came to original sitcoms. What did it feel like going from writer's room to suddenly being your own showrunner and EP?

00:17:56
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I never eat heat it, which is okay, there's a long story to that which I will not give you the whole ugly story. But Herman's Head was an idea that my white partner and I came up with and we sold to ABC. Back in the god it would have been nineteen eighty three or something. It was ahead of its time. It was ahead of the curve for obvious reasons and because it took place inside a guy's head, and so ABC passed on it, but it became kind of a famous unsold pilot and we got work off of it forever. And then in nineteen ninety I think eighty nine maybe our agency CIA, which was super powerful then, more much more powerful than than it is now, and they called us and said, by the way, Herman's Head just sold a Fox, which was like, wait what yeah, because we were producing out of the Class and we just signed a two year deal to continue producing Head of the Class, so we couldn't back out of it. And it was like we got sort of blindsided, and so we made it a deal to be a creative consultants on it, but we got epe the show. It was for us extremely frustrating because yes, it was a funny show, there's no quest remember it very fondly, but it wasn't quite the show he and I had imagined we'd imagined something, uh that would be funny, but also you know win Emmy's because that it could be about the human thought process. You could dramatize what it's like to be a human being and those important decisions we all make.

00:19:23
Speaker 6: Basically what inside out and made a billion dollars. Yeah, when I first heard of inside Out, I was like, this is just Herman's Head. I remember Herman's Head so well, and I loved the concept as a kid. I only saw a few episodes, but I remember thinking, this is brilliant, this idea, and then inside Out just took it to the they never gave I never made a penny on inside Out.

00:19:47
Speaker 2: That yeah, inside out, but it certainly did take it closer to what he and I had imagined than the actual show was. So it was, it was it was nice to have a show in the air. We would go in every week as consultants, but we weren't able to run the show because we were running out of the class, and so it was it was a frustrating experience, I would say in general, I mean I was pleased that pleased that it was on the air, and proud of it, and I'm glad. I'm thrilled that people seem to remember it so fondly because you can't watch it anywhere. They've never it's They didn't even do a DVD set, nothing. I mean, it was just you can't watch it, but it turns up periodically. I noticed it. They did a little thing on Only Murders in the Building.

00:20:29
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

00:20:30
Speaker 2: They did a head piece on one of those shows where I said, hey, you remember that show Herman's Head and then they showed clips from the show. Well, sometimes my head feels like that, and I was low. Somehow we're still in the cultural zeitgeist. Yeah, it wasn't. It was rewarding in its way, but also had a downside for us personally.

00:20:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:20:48
Speaker 3: So some other jobs you worked on, and you worked on Saved by the Bell, The College Years, Empty Nest, The Parenthood, Sister Sister, Full House, Step by Step, and also Boy Meets were Ald And so you mentioned that Bob Tishler brought you in as a freelancer to write some episodes for us. Had you ever seen Boy Meets World before getting the job?

00:21:08
Speaker 2: Oh? Sure, sure, And I had interviewed with Michael Jacobs on other shows, but I never worked I knew him but I didn't really. We never be interviewed, I think for the Torkulsen's and some other show he had with Elliott Gould and Dee Wallace Stone. I forget what it was called. Anyway, so I knew I knew him a little bit, but Bob was the one who brought me in. No I had seen the show, of course, Yeah, it was. It was a highly regarded show. It was considered a step among writers in the business. It was considered a step up from the say of the Bells and that kind of thing was It was definitely you guys. Did you know the stories that were about something? They weren't twenty two minutes of chit chat most of the time until I got there. No I seen I was, And if memory served, I think Bob said, oh, come in and pitch some stuff, and we're looking for a Christmas episode if you have any Christmas ideas. So I came up with this that story and they and they liked it, and and then I wrote that one, and then I think I wrote the second one, which was not my idea. I think they gave that to me.

00:22:18
Speaker 6: So, wait, what was your pitch? Do you remember? Was was your pitch? The very time the Panga and Corey or was the pitch that do Christmas Carol with them?

00:22:27
Speaker 2: Know, the pitch was kids at that age, you know, teenagers often they were raised everybody's raised with this is the way you do Christmas? Yes, and your way of doing Christmas isn't always the way my family does Christmas. And we open up Christmas, well we do it. Oh you put tinsel on your tree. That's great and all that, all those little family traditions are that it'd be funny if we can coct a reason why, you know, to Peg and Corey had you know, we're going to spend Christmas together and it's like, wait a minute, she does it all wrong. It was a real issue between them and that's what they sparked to, and that's what I like. I thought it was kind of a fresh way to do a Christmas story that I had not seen and it seemed rooted and character, yeah, and character and stuff that relatable for.

00:23:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say very relatable. Who hasn't had those conversations with their friends were like what.

00:23:17
Speaker 2: Do you do?

00:23:18
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's not what we really like.

00:23:21
Speaker 5: The whole conversation with the three of us going like, wait a minute, wait, whoa you open your present?

00:23:25
Speaker 2: Wait?

00:23:25
Speaker 1: You call it Christmas eve Day?

00:23:28
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, who plays the elf? And you do one at the time, because everybody get one present.

00:23:35
Speaker 1: On Santa's Last But you did that, so you were like seventeen.

00:23:40
Speaker 2: That's weird.

00:23:41
Speaker 1: We were in our twenties. Yeah. So you mentioned that you were never you never got to meet any of us.

00:23:51
Speaker 3: I'm assuming that meant you never met Bill Daniels or any of the adult actors as well.

00:23:55
Speaker 2: Never. Now, in fact, you guys can tell me. Did you used to shoot partly in front of an audience but then stuff other stuff you just block and tape? Right?

00:24:06
Speaker 3: We had a block and tape day, which was always Wednesday, and then Thursday we would shoot in front of a live studio audience, right right, Anything that wasn't block and tape.

00:24:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't remember. I was kind of busy in those days. They may have invited me, but I just couldn't make the the schedule, or they may never have invited me. I don't remember.

00:24:23
Speaker 4: But did you come to the run throughs?

00:24:25
Speaker 2: No? No? Nothing, Wow, nothing, I was nothing. It was I think it was also frankly a little bit of a. It was kind of an emergency thing where it's like, as I say, they were for whatever reason they were, they'd gotten behind schedule, and yeah, they just needed somebody to come in and knock out a couple of scripts quickly.

00:24:41
Speaker 5: You're just in a big glass case. It did a little hammer next to it in case of story break, break glass anything like that.

00:24:47
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so it was.

00:24:49
Speaker 2: It was. It was. It was a fine thing. It was just it was. It was odd because usually you do go to the taping and I would have looked forward to it normally. I just can't remember why it didn't work. I also had two young children at the time. Oh yeah, that may have been part of the problem.

00:25:04
Speaker 3: I have two young children now, and I don't remember any aspect of any part of my day ever. So I can tell you it's life is just.

00:25:10
Speaker 1: One giant blur.

00:25:12
Speaker 4: You know you're here and you're safe. I don't think.

00:25:14
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this is a dream.

00:25:17
Speaker 6: You have you watched the episodes, and can you see if any of your actual scripts survived?

00:25:22
Speaker 2: I mean, I have not watched them. I'm sorry to say. I did reread. I look, I even found it. I found my old script for what a very topanga Christmas.

00:25:34
Speaker 5: Original draft, original draft, original draft.

00:25:37
Speaker 2: It's actual paper. Wow. I read it. I was like, oh god, yeah, it was pretty funny. I connously. What happens is you've write so many things over the years. I can't remember what was mine and adjusted by the staff or so.

00:25:54
Speaker 3: Do you think that's the first Is that like a table read version? Is that the first thing we read? Or is that truly like the first version you wrote entirely yourself?

00:26:01
Speaker 2: Oh no, this is your this is a this is what you guys read. This went through the went through the staff. So I don't have my original. It's probably written on a scriptware or something, one of those programs you know, it's it's a floppy disk, this big about in my basement. But no, it's funny. I don't. I don't. It's it's it's often difficult for me to remember which are my jokes or what was I just I had a weird experience them a few months ago. My daughter was little, she was like eight when I was producing Sister Sister, and so we had a Halloween episode, right, and so we need a trigger treater. So you want, honey, you want to come and be a tricker treater. Sure, so she got to be a tricker treater and say trick or treat and squirt Tmoor in the face with silly string. Right, Okay, so she got a SAG card for but she had gone on. She's not in the business. She lives elsewhere, has a wonderful life, and I have two grandchildren with her. So, but we were up there a while ago and I somehow came up and her husband didn't even know she'd been in this because she never tells anybody, right, So, being being a typical millennial, he said, okay, let's find it. So he found it in like three seconds on Hulu or Amazon or something, and we sat and watched it together, and it was so interesting because I hadn't seen it in twenty plus years, and it was actually pretty funny. But I was sort of I kind of remember writing that joke, and oh, yeah, I think it's funny. You do enough of them and they kind of bore together.

00:27:40
Speaker 5: Is there one joke you've written that sticks in your mind in any show you've done, like's the what's the best joke you've ever reten?

00:27:46
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, now you're setting me up for total failure. I cannot. I was having this conversation with somebody the other day. I can't remember, Like most of the time, I can't even remember the jokes, but I can remember that I can tell you this. This is the first joke I ever pitched in a room. Okay, I had done freelance for three or four years forever got on staff. And so the first shows on staff was Archie Bunker's place. And in those days, Carol O'Connor had owned half the show. Norman had nothing to do with it anymore, and so Carol ran the room. So when you were sitting in a writer's room, you guys, know what that's like, at least you know what it's like. It's it's a it's a very.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: High octane, yes, high pressure.

00:28:31
Speaker 2: And instead of pitching to like a showrunner, like a writer who's all usually kind of an egomaniac anyway, and this, guys, you're pitching to Carol O'Connor. I mean, his chair was already in the Smithsonian Institution. Yeah, so when you pitched him was like pitching to Mount Rushmore. And so I was very kind of shy anyway, it was very reticent, but I knew after two three weeks, I'm gonna have to say something to say, And so there was a here's what, here's the joke. It's not a great joke. I'm just saying because it's the one I remember. But the situation was Archie had a he was always he ran this bar and he was always getting sued or being He's either suing somebody or being sued all the time. So he had this fly by night attorney, local attorney who is who is his who is his representative? And so the guy was sick of dealing with him, so he's going to fob him off onto a younger lawyer. So the scene was Archie's coming in to complain about something and the and the older attorney's gonna going to tell him this young guy is going to now take over for me. And so Archie comes in and he goes to his normal seat and he almost sits on the attorney because the guy's sitting in a chair. He almost sits on his play by Barry Gordon and uh. And so the older attorney says, oh, uh, you know, mister Bunker, don't you, And then the attorney just had a line like yes, wow or something. So I kind of go, you know, page six, whatever it is, I think we can maybe better that. And the guy wrote the script gives me a look like, kid, you better have something, don't you say script unless you can better my script? And so I said, well what if? What if? He goes almost sits on him, and the attorney says, you know, mister Bunker, don't you And the guy says, well, not from that angle, it's worth that much of a juggle.

00:30:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is better than yes.

00:30:26
Speaker 2: And I remember the look on Carol's face because I was like, I'm terrified, and he like, yeah, okay, and he turns to the writers, just nods and says, which means put on the script. It's going on the script.

00:30:40
Speaker 1: I was like, I can be quiet again.

00:30:45
Speaker 2: Three years later, I pitched you that's great.

00:30:49
Speaker 3: Wow.

00:30:50
Speaker 1: I love that.

00:30:51
Speaker 6: I would be so bad in a writer's room, like there's nothing that terrifies me more like I love writing, I love talking about writing, and I would enjoy being in the room to just watch the process. But I would never want to pitch a joke. Oh my god.

00:31:05
Speaker 2: It was very it's a very tense thing. And I ran writer's rooms to it. Not at that point of course, but later in my career I was running the writer's room. Of course, you're dealing with usually six eight, ten, twelve, even really smart, really funny, and usually really screwed up people. Your job is to try. It's like being an orchestra conductor. You've got to figure out, Okay, that person needs to be encouraged more of that person shut up more, and you've got to try. And when you get it right, it's a it's a magic because somebody will just say one thing, and I'll put and it just spirals into this amazing creation that nobody would.

00:31:42
Speaker 1: Have come up with on their own.

00:31:44
Speaker 2: But if somebody, if the person running the room is mean spirited, and a lot of them are, it can be really, really difficult. I was amazed I was able to not only survive, but to thrive as well as I did, because, as I say, when I came out here was very shy.

00:31:59
Speaker 4: All right, So year then, in all the years you've done, all the rooms you've done.

00:32:02
Speaker 5: Not to put you on the spot again, but who do you think is the uh, who's the best writer you've ever worked with?

00:32:07
Speaker 2: Oh? God, I've worked with so many wonderful writers. The people I remember the most of the certainly the funniest writers, the punch up guys. I worked with a guy named Ray Jessel who's passed away. He was older when I worked with him on Head of the Class, and he was unbelievably funny. I mean he just but not funny, just like Sticky. If there was a situation where you know, we're two o'clock in the morning and we're trying to get a joke to get out of scene three right, and he could come up with it. It was astounding. I worked with some great punch up guys. Jim Valley was very good. Chris Thompson, Uh, it's it would be very difficult for me to say one person was the first. But and my mentor, Hal Dresner was a great writer. I worked with just so many wonderful It was a joy. It was absolute joy. I would say that to drive home two o'clock in the morning after a punch up night, you are I never took drugs in my life because I didn't need to. It was just like I was flying from the adrenaline rush of being in a room. These are the funniest people on planet Earth. I mean, the funniest people in the world come to Hollywood to be funny for a living, and you get to be in a room with them. It was a joy, and there was you know there. Jeff Dutiel was a great writer. Guy worked with now Steve Sullivan is a great writer. A lot of it. But they all have different strengths and some are better with story and others are better with jokes.

00:33:37
Speaker 6: But you mentioned your mentor, Howl Dresner. Yeah, how did he become your mentor? What was that relationship?

00:33:44
Speaker 2: I did early early after the Jeffersons. The next show after the Jeffersons was a show called Husbands, Wives and Lovers, which I'm convinced absolutely nobody ever watched. That lasted thirteen episodes. Help was the executive producer on it, and it was a very odd show in that it was an hour long multi camera sitcom which nobody had ever tried. And there's a reason why it doesn't work. It doesn't work, you know, even I'm sure when you guys are doing them, there's a sort of a rhythm. Yeah, twenty two minute, it just sort of feels like it's over, you know, well this was forty four minutes.

00:34:19
Speaker 1: It just just keeps going.

00:34:22
Speaker 6: Ten as what are you doing?

00:34:25
Speaker 2: Well? We had had there there was a story about five couples, five different married couples, so you'd cut around from from a couple to couple. It was it was I didn't know at the time. I was too young and stupid, but it was based on company, you know, the Broadway music. But it just didn't work. But I did two episodes that for Hal and he we never really worked much together after that. We did a couple of pilots, I think, but we just stayed friends because I just it was like being in a room with a He was the wittiest person I ever met in my life. I did a pilot. I remember we sold a pilot once. I think it was CBS, and we went in and pitched it and the guy whoever it was didn't particularly like it, and he was just he was starting to think of a reason to reject it. And Hal was so witty he just cut him to a. He just was so smart and funny, and if you dared to say something, you know, negative, he would find a way to turn it back on. So the guy just bought the pilot, I think, So how would not make fun? It wasn't a very good idea, but I think we sold the pilot just because Hell was so scary. But I knew him to be a sweetheart. He died a couple of years ago, but the wittiest person I ever met. It was like amazing.

00:35:53
Speaker 3: Your first episode of Boy Meets World that aired was Fraternity Row, which was season five, episode four, where A decides to start his own fraternity, Magnum Pie to get girls. We have Paul Gleeson in that episode, as well as some acid trip cameos from Love Boats, Ted Lange and Bernie Kapell.

00:36:14
Speaker 1: What do you remember from that episode?

00:36:16
Speaker 2: I got, God, don you not a thing. I remember almost nothing. I remember it was a sign to me. And here's the thing. I know nothing about fraternities. I was never in a fraternity. I love it, like you could not pick a worst person to write this draft. But I remember giving up my all. But again, that was the second one i'd done.

00:36:39
Speaker 1: So okay, so you wrote a Christmas first.

00:36:43
Speaker 2: So honestly, I have no I have almost no memory other than working really hard to try to try to make it work. But it was not my idea. It's not an idea I ever would have pitched. I don't think.

00:36:59
Speaker 4: So you can't remember.

00:37:00
Speaker 5: You can't remember if if Ted Lange and Bernie Coppel were part of the script originally, or it was just who they could get. We're trying to figure out if it was if that was part of the original pitch. It was like, this is just who we can get, so we're going to write them in.

00:37:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it was certainly not part of my original concept. No. I think they just enjoyed casting these kind of fun right stunt casting things. But no, I'm sorry. I have no other than how do I write this damn thing? How do I do this? I know nothing about fraternities?

00:37:33
Speaker 3: So funny, Well, after Boy Meets World, you enter a universe that many of our listeners and myself will be very impressed with the world of animated kids TV. Yeah, how do you make that transition?

00:37:47
Speaker 2: Desperation? Don I was trying to keep my house the you know the there was a weird thing that happens. Happened then, is that my generation. I had reached a certain age about my mid forties, which is a pretty good run. I started my mid twenties. I had a twenty year run in sitcoms, and it just there was an iron gate just suddenly came down and nobody in my generation could get hired anymore. And so, in fact, there was a major class action lawsuit by that I was part of, and we won an ageism lawsuit, and we all got like, I don't know, dependent on your income, but you know, you get people got fifty sixty grand, which is a nice thing, but didn't change the business anyway. I could. Most of my friends who are of my vintage, who had been sitcom writers, just got out of the business. They sold their houses, they took their pensions early, and they moved someplace cheaper. But I didn't really want to do that. I felt like I was still I love writing, I love television. I love what I do. So I an animation a friend. We had a friend who had been sitcom writers and said, hey, you want We're doing a cartoon show. You want to do a couple episodes? Well? Sure, or why not? And it was some weird Swedish cartoon called The World of Tosh. You've heard of it?

00:39:08
Speaker 4: Sure? Oh, I've been doing I'm a voiceover actor. I have been for twenty five years.

00:39:13
Speaker 2: Oh so you know it? Okay, I do I Yeah?

00:39:15
Speaker 4: To kick Animation is kind of My World.

00:39:18
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you didn't do that show though, No.

00:39:20
Speaker 4: I didn't do that show, but no, I've certainly heard of it.

00:39:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So anyway, we wrote I think six episodes or something, and it was the money is lousy, but it's better than nothing. And so that's how that was our entree and from there we just kept expanding and an animation, unlike in live action, most of it has done freelance, so you can make a living. I wrote for Swedish shows and Korean shows and Italian shows and French shows and then American shows as well, and so if because I had all that experience as a sitcom writer where you have to knock things out. I mean, you know, you guys know it's likely you do a Monday morning read through with the script stinks. Hell yeah, the writers are back in that room until they are right, and you have to do it fast. Because I had all that experience, I could knock out cartoon scripts really fast. And so you have to indore to make a living. And so I worked with Steve Sullivan and a lot of them some have been done solo. But yeah, it was like the second career and I miss the camaraderie of being on a set, you know, with actors and the director. That's so much fun. But it certainly is less stressful. And so I was able to build a second career doing animation.

00:40:37
Speaker 3: Well, I want to talk more about that, and I'm going to name some of the shows you've worked on, but I want to go back briefly to this lawsuit. Who did you sue and how did that come together? I'm so curious about that.

00:40:48
Speaker 2: But it was because suddenly everybody who hit their early forties suddenly who'd been working for years couldn't get it hired. And you know, you know, writers who were sitting on grousing to each other all the time. Anyway, wait a minute, why are we taking this? That's obviously agism. And so somebody, I don't know exactly who started this, went to an attorney and started a class action lawsuit against all the major studios, networks and agencies three together, and everybody at first thought and I came in, like the second wave of writers who came in and joined it, and then there were more followed me. But and all you had to do is, you know, here's my information. You have. I give you the right for you to look at my writer's guild incomes and so on, and so you can see I'm making this much money and then all of a sudden, I'm making that much money. So uh. And it was the same as two of everybody. So they took it in front of a judge and the judge said, looked at that information, at the data, and said, to the to the to the defendants, to the to the studios and networks, you guys better settle because that's all I need to see. Wow, everybody in Hollywood didn't suddenly get untalented when they reached forty five, so lose. And so they quickly settled the case. And as I said, it was a nice little it was a nice little bonus. My wife is a writer too, and she she got a check and I got a check, and it was nice. But it doesn't you know. Yeah, it's not a career, right. That's what animation allowed me to allow me to keep my house.

00:42:18
Speaker 3: Yes, well, the list of kids shows you've written and produced is so vast you have been nominated for multiple Emmys for it.

00:42:25
Speaker 1: But here is just a small taste.

00:42:27
Speaker 3: Sheriff Calli's Wild West, Tons of Fancy Nancy which you also wrote a song.

00:42:32
Speaker 2: For Oh more than One? Yes?

00:42:34
Speaker 3: Really?

00:42:34
Speaker 2: Oh yeah?

00:42:35
Speaker 3: Okay, Well I think one of the songs you wrote for was nominated for an Emmy, though, which is why I'm familiar with that one, Unbelievable, super Normal Whitch and my personal favorite, Paw Patrol. How I mean, how did you so you just all freelance? You just got so once you started writing for one? Did it seem like you just were up for a while.

00:42:56
Speaker 2: Well, people hire you. If they like your work, then they hire you or they commend you, and that's kind of how it usually works. It wasn't all freelance. What happened was it was mostly freelanced up until gosh, about ten years ago. And then he got a call from a producer friend who was doing Sir Calli's Wild West, which is a Disney show, and said, hey, you want to be on staff? What? As far as I knew, there were no staff on animation shows, but Disney does have staff. Yeah, they most of their shows have like a four person staff. And so then I wound up on staff there and also on Chicken Squad and Fancy Nancy, which was a joyous experience. And then I just finished doing. I was the head writer for a show that's not in the air yet but it will be in January I think called Robo Gobo for Disney Fun. So yeah, so I did. The last ten years have been mostly as a staff writer and headwriter.

00:43:54
Speaker 6: Sometimes is that which do you prefer? Do you prefer sitcom or animated? At this point, like, if you look back, what are the differences really as a writer in which do you?

00:44:04
Speaker 2: Yeah? The difference is it's so much more stressful being on a live action sitcom. I mean it's for I don't know what it's like for the I do sort of, but not as well as you guys do. But to be an actor, I'm sure it has its stresses, but to to writers, trying to keep ahead of the of the schedule is just brutal. And the fact that you know, you go to the table Monday morning, as I say, if that script doesn't work, it's gonna work by Friday, or you're gonna be looking for it work. You're looking for a job. So so you really have to buckle down and you week after week after week. It's very stressful. But the upside is it's like doing an opening night every Friday, night Thursday. But it was like, oh, that's kind of cool. You know, it was called It's great fun. It's just I think it's more of a young person's game. And I think if somebody said to me right now, oh, we'd like you to run a sitcom, I would my wife would say yes, and I would say I can't do it. I don't have the energy to do that anymore. But an animation is is is more of a writer's medium in a weird way, because the voice cast. I rarely even meet the voice cast, and so you're you're just dealing with just it's just you and the and the episode director or the episode storyboard artists, and you're kind of together deciding everything. You know, where's the metaphorical camera going to be, with the color of the walls, everything, and so it's it's much much more control over the finished product. On the other hand, most of what I did, not all of it, but most of this preschool stuff, which I found very stifling after a while. I worked very hard to try to make them something that an adult could stand to sit in the room and write and watch.

00:45:46
Speaker 4: But it was But that's that's hugely difficult to write.

00:45:49
Speaker 5: I mean, a preschool show where you're I mean, that's could be one of the most difficult things to write in all of Hollywood is keeping preschoolers entertain.

00:45:58
Speaker 2: My god, oh my god, you're you're right, And and people like I would talk to like writers who I knew from live action adult days, and they would say, oh, I would I need some money, I'll do that, said you you think you would really sit down and try and write a speck, and you'll see I'll start telling you all the things you can't do. You can't do that joke, you can't use that reference, you can't, right, It's very, very difficult.

00:46:23
Speaker 5: Well, so I did a little I did a little bit of animation writing. And the thing that amazed me was the first job I got was I was under the impression, well, it's animation.

00:46:33
Speaker 4: If I can think it, they can do it. And that's just not the case at all. It's it's amazing if you can think of Pixar can do it, right, Yeah, right, exactly.

00:46:43
Speaker 2: Not on the but if you go see a Pixar movie, as we all do, one shot in a Pixar movie costs the same amount about as what my entire episode would be on a typical eleven minutes. I mean, we don't have anywhere near their kind of luxury of No.

00:46:59
Speaker 4: I mean, so same kind of thing.

00:47:00
Speaker 5: They're like, no, we need to reuse storyboards from older and we need to use backgrounds of older thing. It's like, oh, okay, so I can't just write whatever I want and you go draw it Like, Nope, that's not how it works. No.

00:47:12
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he picks up a he picks up a book and they haven't already created especially if it's three three D you know, CGI animation, they have guy has to build build that literally in the computer. If they haven't already done it. That means some schmuck's got to go sit in front of his cynique and law a book and yeah, in the computer, just for that one thing. And you better make sure that you really want the.

00:47:35
Speaker 4: Book, that it's worth it.

00:47:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:47:37
Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the things that is most impressive about your career is your ability to move from elite late night sitcoms, then into kids and family sitcoms, and then into preschool and animated. I mean basically, as you got older, the people you were writing for gott younger.

00:47:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so did you ever consciously notice those transitions.

00:47:59
Speaker 2: Or yeah wow, oh yeah. Well luckily, you know, I had two kids, so I knew from them what they responded to. And then now, uh, well, my oldest grand son is six, and I have a six year old, a three year old, a two year old, and a four month old. So between all of them, I'm pretty cute into what preschool I watched them. I love I love to watch them watch yeah, because I learned so much. They just they don't do it the same way. Yeah, they respond to things, and I have arguments all the time with Disney about it. Of course I lose, but that they that they that they respond My little two year old just loves Frozen, you know, and she loves a pig, but they seize on something when you can't quite figure out why is she like that? But not this. It's very weird. And my six year old, when he was like three or four, his favorite show on Disney Plus was Hamilton Hamilton over. You don't know who Hamilton is, what the United States of Americas, But they just respond to certain things and you try to figure out what is it about that he loved watching that King George come out with you know, with a red yes. Yeah, the patter song. I loved it.

00:49:13
Speaker 1: I don't know, so funny.

00:49:16
Speaker 3: So for someone listening now who wants to be a writer, and here's all the different mediums you've worked in, what advice do you give?

00:49:24
Speaker 1: And because I think you you teach, do you do?

00:49:26
Speaker 2: I taught for many years at UCLA and also at Pepperdine screen and television writing. And I have a YouTube channel now called the Go Draft.

00:49:36
Speaker 6: Which your videos are great, man, I was watching some of them. They're really really good.

00:49:42
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you.

00:49:43
Speaker 6: Really insightful stuff. And it's like short enough that you can you pack a lot in there.

00:49:47
Speaker 2: It's really I tried to. It's but it's all practical. It's all it's not that theory. It's technique. It's about this is how I do it, and I'm still doing it and have done it for forty five years. So you can choose to follow that path or not. But it's I think it's all practical and useful. Yeah, so yeah, I Oh, the advice I would give it. The business at this particular moment, when we're doing this segment, is in a state, as you all know, of tremendous flucks. Especially television, and up until a year or two ago, if somebody had a screenplay, they're representatives saying, is there any way you can turn it into a limited series? And now it's exactly the opposite. Somebody writes a limited series pilot and they say, is there any way you can turn into a screenplay because they can't get they can't get anybody to green light limited series anymore, and so it's in a state of flux because they don't know the people in charge, the people writing the checks, aren't sure how they're going to make money on things anymore. Streaming has just turned the world upside down. We do know that there's always a market for entertainment, probably now more than any time, so that it will it will find its balance. But the young clients I have who are students or just friends who've had success, have almost all had success and features. They've broken into the feature business quicker than they not like I'm talking at Marvel movies, but I'm like little indie teachers, some of which do very well, and get them a career and get them started much easier now at this moment than trying to break into television. It is very tough to break into television at this moment, because television just doesn't know what it is anymore. Yeah, but I will say this, and this is absolutely true. Over the years of been doing this and teaching, I have never ever met anybody who had talent and perseverance who didn't eventually have some level of success. Might not have been what they dreamt of. They may not have become the next Steven Spielberg. That's what I want to do. I'm not the next Steven Spielberg, but I had some success. But if you hang in there long enough and if you have talent, so somebody will find it. That's the one nice thing you say about Hollywood is it really is to a large degree of meritocracy and people who can do it. And that's what I used a lot about television because in movies you can kind of get by if you're not kind of hide behind, hide under the radar screen. But in television, if you can't produce, they find out really quickly and you're out and somebody else is brought in you can do it, and so it is kind of a meritocracy. So there's that to take heart in.

00:52:29
Speaker 1: Well, that's good advice.

00:52:30
Speaker 3: And finally, as a bit of a TV historian, did you ever think people would still be talking about Boy Meets World thirty years later?

00:52:40
Speaker 2: No, I do, I did not, and I'm delighted that you are. I mean, I think it's wonderful that people are still watching it and still excited by it. I think it's so interesting, fascinating that kids, I mean, you guys must know that. You know that the people watching the episodes are probably roughly the same age as the audience who watched it originally, and they still respond to the same stuff, and even though the references have changed and change and all the rest of it. It's fascinating to me. They will sit and watch I've seen them watch Sister Sister episodes and say to the Bell episodes, and they like them just as much. It's very very interesting. And also there's something about multi camera sitcoms. I can't figure it out that there's a sense of because I guess of the fourth wall. The audience feels like they're part of it, part of it. It felt like they were in Corey's living room, and.

00:53:36
Speaker 4: It's comfortable.

00:53:37
Speaker 2: It is it is, and people will watch them and rewatch them and watch them twenty times and they know all the jokes by heart. It doesn't seem to matter anyway. I think it's lovely and it makes me feel good to know that it wasn't. We weren't producing stuff that just went into avoid Some of it did go into avoid lovers.

00:54:00
Speaker 4: Literally the guessing the actors on the show didn't remember they were on the show.

00:54:07
Speaker 2: I don't think they're doing a podcast.

00:54:11
Speaker 3: Andy, Thank you so much for spending your time with us. Thank you for letting us hunt you down home phone and all. Never get rid of it. It brings surprises around the corner.

00:54:20
Speaker 1: We so appreciate you.

00:54:21
Speaker 3: And thank you for solving the mystery for us of why we were like, how come we don't remember him?

00:54:26
Speaker 1: Thank you for solving the mystery.

00:54:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not terribly memorable, but I'm better than that.

00:54:33
Speaker 3: We knew it must be something, so you did. You solved that memory. You saw that mystery for us, and we appreciate you and thank you. Tell everyone again where they can find you on your YouTube channel.

00:54:42
Speaker 2: It's the go draft. The go draft, which is a term that used to mean maybe they still say it meant the person who wrote the draft that got the green light, that was the go draft, and so that's cool, is trying to get people from the level of being promising to actually getting your work produced.

00:54:58
Speaker 1: Well, I love that.

00:54:58
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here with us, and yeah, we wish you nice. Thanks for your contribution to a show we know and love and our audience knows and love, and so yeah, thank you for being with us. We wish you many more years of success and health and and love and enjoy your grandchildren.

00:55:19
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Bye bye.

00:55:23
Speaker 1: Okay, so we don't have to feel bad. So bad we did know whit. We never even possibly came to set.

00:55:31
Speaker 4: It's so strange. It's so strange that you write these two episodes are not there. You don't get to just.

00:55:36
Speaker 6: Can't believe that our staff was that far beyond like, because it seems like we had a big staff, especially by season five, that they would have been, you know, been able to account. But I guess not like I mean get outside.

00:55:48
Speaker 1: Yeah it is.

00:55:50
Speaker 3: I do think you know writer, you mostly right features Will You've written a couple episodes of TV. I think the pace at which they have to come up with this stuff, it's just something we can't possibly understand because we've never been in it. For a long term, because I see it now on shows I direct, where I'll talk to people and I'll be like, so, how's it going, And everyone will look so tired, you're just underwater, and they're just like, we are here so late, and and we're writing the episode we're doing next week, and and it's just it's so high pressure and so well it never ends.

00:56:30
Speaker 6: Never.

00:56:30
Speaker 4: I mean I mean literally never. Just the show just stops. That's or you die. That's it. Otherwise you're writing the whole time.

00:56:38
Speaker 5: It's the episode you're doing, it's next week's episodes, rewriting now, last episode.

00:56:41
Speaker 4: It just never stopped.

00:56:42
Speaker 3: I go crazy, so crazy, Well it makes sense anyway. Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com.

00:56:54
Speaker 1: And we have merch.

00:56:57
Speaker 4: Merch that to me, not membing. Oh the merch, got it.

00:57:03
Speaker 5: You never met the merch, don't worry, Yeah exactly, I never met the merch, so I thought, like I thought.

00:57:07
Speaker 1: We were merch.

00:57:10
Speaker 3: You can find our merch at Podmeets worldshow dot com. Will send us out.

00:57:14
Speaker 4: We Love You All, pod dismissed.

00:57:17
Speaker 5: Podmets World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram at Podmeats World Show or email us at Podmeats Worldshow at gmail dot com