Life Advice from a Mentalist with Oz Pearlman

00:00:06
Speaker 1: Please feel free to post buy the book. Pre orders are open. My publisher would kill me if I didn't say that.

00:00:12
Speaker 2: Good point is this upside down.

00:00:18
Speaker 1: I'm already in Katie Kurt's line.

00:00:22
Speaker 3: This is my first gig.

00:00:23
Speaker 1: Hahu.

00:00:24
Speaker 3: Anyway, that was so funny. Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. Thank you all so much for coming. This is going to be a really fun conversation. O's is amazing. Oh's Peerlman, aka the Mentalist, has his new book called Read Your Mind, Proven Habits for success from the world's greatest mentalists. O's has also become a friend of ours and came to the US Open predicted who was going to win. Not really. He's so much fun and such a great person. So os, I'm really excited to have this conversation for next question. So first of all, I'll bite, why do you decide to write a book? You're a very busy guy, You're traveling all over the country, you've got five kids, you're an ultra marathon or you're a very hyper active individual. Why do you want to do this now?

00:01:17
Speaker 1: So I think for years I didn't really believe that I had a book in me, even though people around me kept telling me, you have a great story.

00:01:23
Speaker 2: You should tell this book, and I did.

00:01:24
Speaker 1: Speaking of kind of crazy things, I have a weird claim to fame, which is I ran around Central Park more times in a day than anybody ever had before. So that was I ran one hundred and sixteen miles in eighteen hours.

00:01:37
Speaker 2: So yeah, not normal, but I was going to say big.

00:01:40
Speaker 3: The follow up is why why?

00:01:42
Speaker 1: So I actually raised a lot of money for charity for Save the Children, so I felt great about it. But otherwise why, I don't know. I like to do things that are kind of nuts. But when I finished that Reuter's it took off. It whenever front page of the New York Times, second page, Wall Street Journal, and a good friend of mine who's an author, said you need to write a book, and so many people said it to me at once that again, I think I always wanted to do it, and I dreamed of doing it, but I didn't believe in myself that I could. But so many people saying kind of validated the fact that maybe people would be interested. And then it came down to if I'm going to write a book, I'm not writing a memoir because I'm of the thought, who cares about you, who cares what you're doing. With that, you have to earn people's attention, and I think the best way to earn that is giving actionable takeaways that you're going to use in your life that are going to help you succeed. And it's not learning how to do mentalism, which this is not what the book is. Before I tell you what the book is, what it's not, I'm not going to teach.

00:02:34
Speaker 2: You how I did the tricks. I'm not going to teach you how I.

00:02:36
Speaker 1: Knew which ball who Joe Burrow would throw the ball to, even though John Moulner is like, tell me how you did that. So I don't want to teach you how to be a mentalist. There's books that you could learn that from. I want to teach you how to apply the skills of a mentalist.

00:02:50
Speaker 2: To your life at work, at.

00:02:52
Speaker 1: Home, how to deepen your connections with people, because what I really do at my core is I've studied human behavior for three decades and I know how people think.

00:03:00
Speaker 3: And I know that one of the ways she learned about human behavior, Oh's, was when you were a little boy, you were first fascinated by magic when did you start performing magic tricks?

00:03:11
Speaker 2: A teenager?

00:03:12
Speaker 3: The teenager and then you started working. So you grew up in Michigan. But town Farmington Hills, Oh yeah, that's fancy.

00:03:19
Speaker 1: Shout out anyway, it's not West Bloomfield is fancier. I was in a different part of Farmington Hills.

00:03:25
Speaker 3: So you grew up in Farmington Hills, Michigan. You love, love, love magic, and you decide you're going to guess. Your mom tells you if you want to do magic, you need to bring home some money.

00:03:36
Speaker 1: Right Fully, she's like, yo, I'm not buying you any more tricks. So my folks have gotten divorced. I'll spurre the gory details, but it was a really messy breakup, and I think that if you were to go back and kind of like therapize me, this was my escape was doing magic, was not having to kind of deal with the pain instead bring people joy, which I see as a common parallel because I love stand up comedy and a lot of the comedians I know were the jokesters in their home to kind of take away some of the things that weren't as happy or pleasant. So I think that was similar, and I love the fact that when I kind of started doing magic, it was like Clark Kent became Superman, but in a nerdly fourteen year old way, so that I could now connect with people and watch them smile and be happy, and that kind of brought me joy, and I wanted to buy more tricks because tricks cost money and they're expensive. That's how it keeps people from knowing how the tricks work. So exactly that my Mom's like, I don't have any money. If you want to do this, after a year, you got to go make money.

00:04:29
Speaker 3: And so you go and you work at a neighborhood restaurant, cart you walk to so to paint the picture for us of Little O's performing at Zia's, this restaurant nearby.

00:04:41
Speaker 1: So God knows where I got the confidence to do this. It was a full fake it till you make it. But I had this just mindset from an early age of always being able to put myself in the other person's shoes, which I think is a superpower of empathy, and knowing that I'm not going to go in there when the restaurant is busy, like during dinner, I'm not going to going there at lunch when it's also they're getting ready. I'm going to go into that sweet spot, which happened to be after school for me, where they're not as busy. And that's like marketing one oh one. I didn't know how I knew it, but I just realized it. And also going in there with benefits oriented language from a young age, I realized, if I just tell them about how great I am, who cares honestly, that doesn't matter. The tricks need to be great, that's a benchmark. What I need to do is explain to them why it's worth it for them to have me. And so I kind of went in there with my sales pitch. I started doing tricks for the bartender. I think I had an orange juice. I knew they were going to bring someone over. By that time, they got the general manager over, and then my Israeli mother's like, you know, like, let's start sales pitching here, buddy. And that's when I said to them, have you ever had entertainment before? And that's kind of what got their wheels in motion. No, And I go, why don't I come here on your slowest night? And why don't I do it for free?

00:05:49
Speaker 2: Right?

00:05:49
Speaker 1: The best way somebody recently told me on a podcast, Randy Kaplan shout out the best way to get a job do it for free.

00:05:54
Speaker 2: It's very hard to say no to free, very hard.

00:05:57
Speaker 1: And so I said to them, don't pay me a dime to come in here on what's your slows Nite Tuesday. If every person that walks out here doesn't tell you how great it was and how they're gonna come back with more people, next time we shake hands, we say goodbye, we had a great night.

00:06:11
Speaker 2: That's it.

00:06:12
Speaker 1: There's nothing to decide. This is a win win for you. And so that worked. I don't know how, but it worked. And I worked at that restaurant.

00:06:20
Speaker 3: Oh wait, wait, wait, so the first night you did this, yep, you dazzled everybody.

00:06:24
Speaker 2: No, I did not dazzle everybody.

00:06:26
Speaker 3: So but obviously you said it worked. So people, if I got.

00:06:30
Speaker 1: My foot in the door, yeah, I got my foot in the door, Get the toe in the door, get the foot in the door, and then open the door fully right, That's kind of my modus operandi in life.

00:06:37
Speaker 2: But once I had the foot in the door, I had to get better. But no, I sucked.

00:06:40
Speaker 1: I don't know who. If somebody is alive and was there at Zia's in a nineteen ninety six. They can vouch she was not destined for greatness, but I iterated, I improved, and thank goodness, I've gotten a little bit better.

00:06:52
Speaker 3: And then you started going there regularly though.

00:06:54
Speaker 2: Right I was.

00:06:55
Speaker 1: I became a regular and I did get paid, Yeah, fifty bucks under the table.

00:06:58
Speaker 2: Don't tell the irs.

00:07:01
Speaker 3: So obviously I know that that honed your ability to kind of read people. Talk about how that those interactions really were invaluable in terms of what you ultimately became.

00:07:16
Speaker 1: So there's a chapter in my book called Channel You're Inner Mentalist, And that's not to pretend to read people's minds, but to try to know what they're thinking, because that is a tactical advantage in your entire life. So what I learned at a young age going up to restaurants to people who probably had babysitters who the last thing they wanted was for some teenager to come up to them doing card tricks, like, oh my god, who is this person?

00:07:38
Speaker 2: Do I have to tip them? Right?

00:07:39
Speaker 1: All of these things that creep into your mind when you see a stranger approach you in your personal space, and that's daunting, right. The only thing more daunting is the people on the corners who are trying to get me to sign up for a charity.

00:07:49
Speaker 2: And you're like, oh God, what do I say to them right now? When I passed them? Right? You know that vibe?

00:07:53
Speaker 1: So learning how to diffuse tension and learning what people are thinking in that moment that took a long time, but it gave me this incredible playbook for life.

00:08:03
Speaker 2: Here's what I mean.

00:08:04
Speaker 1: I started to learn what is it that somebody thinks about me when I walk up to them? And I realized quickly they don't know who I am? Does he even work here? What's he about to do? Is?

00:08:14
Speaker 2: Oh god? Is he doing magic? Is he any good? Do I have money to tip him?

00:08:17
Speaker 1: There's about ten thoughts that race through that person's mind in two seconds. That's what happens in your brain. So my job became how do I win them over? Answer every one of those questions, check every box so that within ten seconds the power dynamic is flipped.

00:08:34
Speaker 2: I don't want them, they want me.

00:08:36
Speaker 1: So I learned all these different tactics that when I approach somebody head on, it's very, very stress inducing for somebody to walk right up to you. But if you walk up to somebody at an angle, it's that simple. If you walk up to somebody to approach them with only one shot, one eye showing, it's less tense. When you walk up to a table with one foot in, one foot out, people are less nervous around you.

00:08:56
Speaker 2: So simple, yet it makes a big difference I walk up.

00:08:59
Speaker 1: I would also create time constraint, So I'd walk up to you and say I only have a minute. So right there, he's not staying that long. He only has a minute. And never ask a yes or no question. That's a rule of life. Asking a yes or no question when you meet somebody is a great way to have them slam the door in your face right no where you're gonna go from there?

00:09:16
Speaker 3: And very bad in interviews too.

00:09:18
Speaker 1: Terrible, terrible religion, politics, yes or no questions not good necessarily. So I would realize that if I walked up to them, I found out all these little tips and tricks and little things I could say, and I got better and better. Where again, this applies to my life, but there's ways to apply this to your life, which is I'd walk up at an angle and say I only have a minute. But did you hear what's going on tonight? It's your lucky day right away? What are you going to say to that other than no, what's going on?

00:09:44
Speaker 2: Right? You just won the lottery? What's going on?

00:09:47
Speaker 1: I go The owner of the restaurant brought me in as a special treat, and this is going to be absolutely incredible. So we're at about eight or nine seconds since I've approached the table. I have let you know that the owner has brought me in. I work here, they know i'm here. I have not given you any outs. I've just made it seem like, oh my god, something's amazing.

00:10:04
Speaker 2: It's a treat.

00:10:05
Speaker 1: You don't need to worry about money right then, which is one of the most awkward parts of the interaction at the beginning, and then bam, it's on. So I learned how to approach people and how to get them to instantly be drawn in, and I think that is such a huge thing in life and learning what are they thinking when they meet me?

00:10:23
Speaker 3: So how can people apply kind of those rules to everyday interactions because obviously a lot of people in this room are meeting new people, new clients, saying hi to people. I have interview guests coming in to do the podcasts, et cetera, et cetera. So give us an example of how you can practice that every day.

00:10:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely so.

00:10:45
Speaker 1: There's body language cues that are very important, which is seeing how somebody else behaves.

00:10:49
Speaker 2: You can mirror their energy, like in a great interview.

00:10:53
Speaker 1: If somebody else is energetic, it's good for you to be lightly energetic meet their energy.

00:10:58
Speaker 2: Don't overwhelm them. You know what, Oh my god.

00:10:59
Speaker 1: You want to be at the same level as the person with you, And that's why I approach people in a calm manner, but upbeat.

00:11:06
Speaker 2: So that's a huge one.

00:11:07
Speaker 1: Another one is people when they meet you are an autopilot. They're an autopilot. It's exactly you think. They're not flying the plane. The plane is flying itself. Because when we meet people, we tend to ask the same three or four questions. Oh, nice to me, what's your name, where are you from?

00:11:20
Speaker 2: What do you do? I have answers to that.

00:11:23
Speaker 1: My mental heuristics are designed to have answered that one hundred times before. I'll probably answer it the same way for you. So challenge yourself to think, what can I ask this person that they've never been asked? Before and that will take them out of autopilot, which will make you memorable. I'm going to give you just a great example. I did an event about a year ago with President Obama. I'm dropper, sorry, sorry, this is heard of him, so it's in the book. It comes full circle because there's another event with Richard Brandson. It's too long of a story, but the one with President Obama was I was performing on the same stage as him. He was going to be speaking, and I knew for a fact that he was going to be on after one, but he might not do a meet and greet, so I might not meet him. But I've decided if I'm going to have the chance to meet him, I need to know what I'm going to say to him.

00:12:07
Speaker 2: Now.

00:12:07
Speaker 1: If you have the chance to know who you're going to meet, do your research right, Go in prepared.

00:12:12
Speaker 2: That's already such a huge thing. Don't just wing it. Be prepared. Now.

00:12:17
Speaker 1: My wife, who I'm going to talk about her in a moment, because she's a force of nature and I have to thank her for everything. This book would not be here, my life would not be here without her. So honestly, before you even start, you've met her. She's amazing, and she doesn't get nearly enough thanks. I should sidetrack. I think the number one thing that should have been in this book. Decision you make in life is who you end up being with, or partner with or marrying, because that is the single most important decision you'll ever make.

00:12:39
Speaker 2: Like, I wouldn't be.

00:12:40
Speaker 1: Here right now if she wasn't holding down the fort and doing so many things behind the scenes. So when I met President Obama, and I thought about it for months, and my wife was like, why do you keep thinking about this? I go because I need this moment to be perfect. I walked up to President Obama, he was talking to people, he turned I finally had my moment. I'm like, five seven and three quarters, so much taller. I need those three quarters. That's why I add those in relatively average for a Jew, but I'll take it. And right when I finally get his eye line, Okay, he's been schmoozing everybody for fifteen minutes, he finally turns to me and I go in for the shake and I go, thank you so much for the gift, sir. What would you say if somebody you don't know everyone right now? Truly Polus goes to thank you so much for the gift. What would you say? You said, you're welcome. That's what almost nobody would say. This guy just didn't want you.

00:13:31
Speaker 2: Awkward. Everyone said the same thing. What gift right what gift? Right away?

00:13:36
Speaker 1: Not a yes or no answer. Also, I bet you he's met hundreds of thousands of people and shaking their I don't know how many people ever asked him or said that to him. So right away he's confused. He's not in his zone of autopilot. He goes what gift, and I go, well, sir, I'm performing in ten minutes on that same stage, so I forever get to tell people that President Obama opened for me.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: So we did two things.

00:14:00
Speaker 1: I got a laugh, I got a little rapport, And now I was hoping that he would say what are you performing? That was my next question. What happened was infinitely better. When he goes, oh, I know you, you were amazing on hard knocks, I'm like freaking out because I didn't know Obama knew me at this point.

00:14:16
Speaker 2: So I'm turning to my wifem like are you seeing this? Are you seeing this? Are you seeing this?

00:14:19
Speaker 1: And right then I know I have my moment. Secret service is right here. He's got to go to more people. I go, are you ready? Thirty seconds? The most amazing thing you've seen, not today but this month, And right when I created the time barrier, thirty seconds, he said to me, thirty seconds, and I have him. Doesn't matter how long it's going to be. I've captured him. So the thirty seconds gave him a thing because he knows there's an out. So now I did something amazing that's neither here nor there. But notice read his mind. You can see the pictures in the video, but it was that forethought. So you ask yourself, what can you do in you when you meet somebody who's going to be important to you, do your research.

00:14:57
Speaker 2: Don't just go in there blind. That's on you if you weren't prepared.

00:15:00
Speaker 1: Second, challenge yourself to think, what could I say to this person that will intrigue them, interest them that someone else hasn't asked them before. Now, in certain instances, you can't do your research, you meet people at events, you're in the moment. You can't have thought this through for months. So I think a compliment is a great way to do it right away. Say something to them that they don't they haven't heard before. That always warms people up, or see if you can figure out what interests them and lean into that. A big recipe for my success, and it's a whole chapter in the book, is that I try to make myself shine by making others shine. I for example, this is a weird thing on CNBC, the Financial Network. How many other mentalists or magicians have ever been on that network? Can you guess? Z zero? It doesn't make sense. Why would they bring me on? And yet last year I was on every single time slot of the network.

00:15:54
Speaker 2: That's a crazy statistic. Why is that?

00:15:56
Speaker 1: It's not because they love my face or I'm some special person. I provide value to their viewer. I'll be on that show just like a cooking show, just like a show that will appeal to women age eighteen to forty nine versus NBA, versus NFL. Because I designed my material based on the end viewer. I don't design it based on me. A card trick is amazing because oh cool, but it's not about you. I do things that emotionally appeal to my audience. So when I meet people, I want them to shine, not me.

00:16:26
Speaker 3: And that's like, when you do something for a football team. What football team was the one that I was just the Bengals. I'm not a big football person, but when you were in the Bankals, you were doing a very football oriented presentation.

00:16:40
Speaker 1: Right, Absolutely, it's jersey numbers, it's about plays, it's about you know, thur and long like it's it's the ultimate.

00:16:46
Speaker 2: I just asked myself, if you really had a.

00:16:48
Speaker 1: Superpower to read people's minds and you liked football, what would you want to do? I want to know where the quarterback is going to throw the ball, because if I know that, that's worth millions, if not billions of dollars. They literally paid to eventsive coordinators just to watch film all the time to do that.

00:17:03
Speaker 2: So if you're a football fan, you're intrigued.

00:17:05
Speaker 1: If you're a football gambler, show me what the parlay is going to be, right, do the things that the fans are going to like.

00:17:18
Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've been following me on social media, you know I love to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen, Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman and Ininagarten. So I started a free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips and kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash good Taste. That's k A t I E C O U r I C dot com slash good taste. I promise your taste buds will be happy you did. It's really interesting that you say prepare for even you know, initial interactions, the idea that you never get a second chance to make a first impression and really figure out how you can make someone feel comfortable, think about what you're going to talk about with them, and don't worry. Well, Mulner, I'm going to tell this funny story about you and Don Henley at the White House. It's embarrassing, but I'm going to just tell it really quick. Is a quick quick thing, a quick pivot. So, Maulner, my husband, for those of you who don't know, was at the White House with his ex wife and his former in laws. I guess they's still kind of your laws. But anyway, his father in law was getting an award for some humanities thing and he was at the White House and Don Henley was there from the Eagles, you know. So John taps him on the back and right in the middle of him having this long conversation, and he goes just second, and so Mulner's like waiting patiently for Don Henley to turn around. Finally he's standing there and Don Henley turns around and he says hey, and John goes, hey, how you doing?

00:19:06
Speaker 2: You were ready? You were locked and loaded Moulder.

00:19:12
Speaker 1: He followed it up quickly saying A Hotel California is my favorite karaoke song.

00:19:18
Speaker 3: Anyway, I just always thought that was such a funny story.

00:19:20
Speaker 2: You were shell shocked. Though I've had that happen.

00:19:22
Speaker 1: It's funny because I've been starstruck by people that like when I've listened to podcasts, there's people I've listened to podcasts for years that I've met them, and it's such a weird intimate space that I didn't want to say, because I'm like, I've just heard you talk so many times that it's almost strange where you'll freeze up in those situations. Yeah, but at the end of the day, people are people, so hopefully you can break through that kind of life.

00:19:43
Speaker 3: Don Henley was not impressed, and he started around and walked away. But anyway, so let me get back to some of you.

00:19:49
Speaker 1: You'll meet him again, I predict it now, and he will be ready for you. You will be ready for him.

00:19:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the good news.

00:19:56
Speaker 3: So let's talk a little bit more about your biography. If you well, I mean, so magic was your passion. You didn't expect it to be a career path. You didn't think you to earn a living doing magic. You go to the University of Michigan, you graduate, and then you end up going to work on Wall Street. So tell me about that decision you made and sort of the impact it had on your trajectory.

00:20:22
Speaker 1: So I love when I meet people who are teenagers and people are twenties who know what they're going to do for their life. I'm just overwhelmed because I had no idea. Trust me, it is still surreal where I'm like, I'm a mentalist for a living. It's still just as weird as it sounds to you. Still pretty weird to me at times because I didn't anticipate this at all. Life works out in funny ways. But I was doing this on the side while working on Wall Street. But I kind of first generation immigrant. I came to the States when I was three. I think my folks were very pragmatic. It was you go to school, you get a job, and that's what you do, and that's what was kind of drilled into me.

00:20:56
Speaker 2: So I did not know.

00:20:58
Speaker 1: I didn't know anyone in Hollywood or in show is where I could picture myself as that's what I would do for a living.

00:21:04
Speaker 2: I didn't think that was possible, if that makes sense.

00:21:06
Speaker 1: I didn't really have any mentors or anybody that could just instill in me that switch saying, believe in yourself, you can do this. So I was again, for better or worse. My mom moved away, my dad moved away. When I was sixteen, I graduated high school. I went to Michigan right when I turned seventeen, and I paid for school myself, which kind of sucked at the time but has a silver lining at the moment because I was a hustler, so I had businesses.

00:21:29
Speaker 2: I ran on the side.

00:21:30
Speaker 1: Either there's a chatter in my book where I talked about removing in song Boat docks and all of these things I did because I had to pay tuition, and I had to pay for college with nobody paid. I had to pay for everything, So I was doing magic on the side, and I was always working, so my default mode was networking.

00:21:46
Speaker 2: I never allowed a business lead to slip.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: I learned at a young age that if I hand you a business card and you go, oh, we're gonna have a Christmas party and you don't call me, why didn't you call me? You know that rejection stung. So I go, I'm not gonna let my future be in your hands. I'm gonna be the one who follows up. And I learned that less than age fourteen. Oh, I fake it till you make it. If somebody was like, oh my god, this would be amazing at a Christmas party, amazing, let me take down your number right now, right. I didn't have a cell phone, so like in the nineties, and somebody on my team will call you. Did I have a team? No, it was me myself and I I didn't have a driver's license. So literally, I decided early on that when opportunities present themselves or I find them, I never let them slip. Never let someone else be in charge of your future success. No agent, no manager, no boss. You need to be your number one cheerleader in life. And I learned that by by you know, wherever you want to describe it by virtual of the fact that I had nobody really taking care of me, so I had to do that for myself. So when I worked on Wall Street, I was always doing this on the side.

00:22:46
Speaker 2: So you kind of asked me, was I doing this?

00:22:48
Speaker 1: I was doing this at cocktail hours, at happy hours, at work. I went to like restaurants here. I had four different restaurants that I worked at. I finished work at six pm. I grew to a restaurant and I'm doing tricks until ten pm.

00:22:59
Speaker 2: That O, Bravo.

00:23:00
Speaker 1: The Real Housewives of New York. There was a place called t Bar on the Upper East Side. I met all the Real Housewives, started getting with them, with Bethany, with like Ramona, like this is old school, and I just started building that name of doing tons of bar and bought mitst Us Bridle showers and doing this all on the side.

00:23:15
Speaker 2: This was all side hustle for a few years while I had a day job.

00:23:19
Speaker 3: And was this still magic or you made this transitions from being wanting to be a magician to being a menalist, But initially you kind of thought menalists. You weren't impressed.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: Oh my God dreadfully boring. So yeah, magic is very fun because you can do moves. Again, I liked sleight of hand. I could like being able to sit and just practice really fun weird facts. But I was so obsessive with cards that I found cards that were waterproof so I could practice in the shower. Okay, I am not proud of that, Lamar. I was like, put that in the books so they understand what level of psycho you are. So that was where the hustle came in. But that was the passion to get the ten thousand hours. Magic was fun because it was a puzzle. It was fun to do. Mentalism has very little moves, there's no sleight of hand, there's no like thing to do.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: It's very cerebral.

00:24:09
Speaker 1: It's analyzing how people think, how they behave, and how you can influence them. So it's the closest parallel to mind reading without any supernatural or psychic powers. So mentalism is also very very difficult to get good at because you can practice magic by yourself ad nauseum, and you can get so good that when you go to someone and do the trick, it will most likely work. Mentalism is very challenging because you could go up to somebody and blow it over and over and over.

00:24:38
Speaker 2: You can't really practice at home that much.

00:24:40
Speaker 1: Just like a stand up comic doesn't know if they're funny until an audience validates it.

00:24:44
Speaker 2: They have to laugh at your joke.

00:24:46
Speaker 3: But is it nature and nurture? I mean, in other words, are certain people wired to be menalists or have some of the traits you do, Because honestly, it's so much more than reading people and understanding people. The stuff you do is insane, thank you, it really is.

00:25:06
Speaker 2: So.

00:25:06
Speaker 3: I mean, are some people more suited or kind of more tuned in to other people, like their emotional intelligence or their perception powers are just superior.

00:25:18
Speaker 2: It's a great question.

00:25:19
Speaker 1: I think everything I do is learnable, but some of it is an innate talent. And I always give the parallel of musical talent. So you could give me a vocal coach for the next three years. If I sing, everybody will leave this room. Okay, it's brutal. I will never get to that level no matter how much I practice. So I don't have an innate skill for music.

00:25:38
Speaker 2: I wish I did. I love music.

00:25:40
Speaker 1: I have an innate skill that I think everybody in this room could potentially reach a certain ceiling if they started learning mentalism. But are you willing to commit thirty years to being the best at it and having a relentless drive? And I think that honestly, the skills that I found that have given me success, you can separate them from what I do for a living. As a mentalist can take a end diagram and remove the overlap. And I think those core skills are what can give you success at anything you do. And that's what I try to distill from my life and put in the book. It's not the mentalism. I truly believe that if you took all the mentalist powers away right now, I can go into a room.

00:26:16
Speaker 2: I can win people over.

00:26:17
Speaker 1: I can earn their trust, build rapport, create relationships that are give and take where they want you. They want to be your champion. Right Nobody achieved success in a vacuum. The best thing you can ever do is be able to, you know, have strong relationships with people, connect with them on a deep note, and they will elevate you. Every person in this room who's attained a leadership position has done it by working well with others in some way, shape or form, or you wouldn't be there.

00:26:44
Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of the skills of a mentalist.

00:26:46
Speaker 3: Havi said that though you're kind of a natural extrovert. Clearly I'm extroverted too, but a lot of people are not as outgoing as you.

00:26:57
Speaker 1: Know what you do in that case, Yeah, so I think I think I think introvert extrovert is somewhat innate, even though if you catch me in other environments, I am myself right here, just this slightly exaggerated version. That's if you met me day to day, you know me. I'm not like a different guy. It's the same person, for better or worse. But I think that the way you do it, and that the way if you really boil down what it is about being around other people, a fear of rejection and failure, that's what is at the core of that. And that's something that I found a way to rewire my brain when I was doing those restaurants. And this is one of the skills in the book that I teach you, which is everyone hates being rejected. Right when I walked up to a table and I was that age and they're like, get out of here, kid. That hurts if you do that in any guys in business, a sales lead, if you do that in a your romantic life, you approach somebody and they shoot you down. Man, does that hurt because what are they saying. They're saying you're not good enough. So here's what I did. I created a life hack in my brain where I don't know how I did this. It's kind of like a split personality. To protect myself and thick skin. I rewired my brain to say, you know what, that person doesn't know me. They know Owes the Magician, So whatever they felt didn't hurt me.

00:28:10
Speaker 2: I'm a different person.

00:28:11
Speaker 1: I created this thing in my mind where I go, really successful, you have an agent, right, you don't have to do your contract negotiations, the dirty parts. You get someone else to be bad cop, bad cop, good cop. So I said in my brain, they don't dislike me, I'm not gonna take it personally. They don't like Ohs the Magician, and I started creating excuses. I go, maybe their kids sick at home, maybe this. I started crecreating all these reasons that it wasn't about me, it was about them. And so I didn't take the pain personally, and I could walk up to the next table and feel good and not be like in this bad mood with the next table and take it out on them.

00:28:41
Speaker 2: Think of it this way. In your mind, you're in control. You are in control.

00:28:45
Speaker 1: If I gave you a bowl of water, and I took salt and poured it in the bowl of water, that's all salt water now. But what if you could take a little piece of clear plexiglass put in the middle, and you only pour salt in one side.

00:28:57
Speaker 2: Now the other side is fresh water.

00:29:00
Speaker 1: If you have the ability to control that, and what you tell yourself in your mind is what you believe, perception becomes reality. Confidence is gained by telling yourself positive things, not telling oh my god, I'm so bad, I'm so this. If you start telling yourself good things, you will naturally feel better. When you run a marathon, there's a funny thing they say, if you feel like crap, start smiling and you're like screw you, start smn seriously, smile for the next five minutes mile twenty to twenty sixth New York City Marathon. I don't care how you feel. Smile, say thank you to the volunteers, Be cheerful. Your brain your body will change literally in your brain. You will start feeling better. You can't smile for five minutes and not start feeling slightly better than you did.

00:29:39
Speaker 2: Right. Your body is connected to your mind. So that's what I started doing.

00:29:42
Speaker 1: If you are an introvert, I would say to you, challenge yourself today to do one thing you haven't done before.

00:29:49
Speaker 2: Right, challenge yourself.

00:29:50
Speaker 1: See how you feel before, see how you feel after, and you'll realize a lot of it is just dread that's.

00:29:55
Speaker 2: Internal that evaporates when you give it a go.

00:29:59
Speaker 3: Let's talk again about this transition from magic to menalism or is that what it's called menalism? I mean, so you're a little kid, you're doing magic. How did you even know what meant what it was to be a menalist? Did you know people who did this? How did you make that transition?

00:30:17
Speaker 1: So there's books, there's videos, I mean, that's how we learn, kind of like there's conventions, which sounds so nerdy and it is.

00:30:24
Speaker 2: It's like what are two mentalists do in a room?

00:30:25
Speaker 1: They don't talk, They just look at each other's smile, make facial expressions. So I knew about it from teenage years because there'd be lectures that came into my local magic shop, but I just found it so boring. I'm like, where's the moves, where's the gimmicks, where's the stuff to buy? I was very in a different mind space at the time, and then I had a mentor who kind of changed my mind. But what happened is I was on a show called America's Got Talent. Oh yeah, twenty fifteen.

00:30:48
Speaker 3: But you you got on the third time, right, you had to audition three times?

00:30:53
Speaker 2: Saction third time was the charm? So whatever.

00:30:55
Speaker 1: I people that would tell me, oh, you got on that show that made your career, Like, yet, have you tried out? They're like, no, I tried out three times before I got on. So again, that's a great way. First time being out, second time doing it out, keep trying, don't give up, be relentless, right if I have a goal. This is again one of those things that I've rewired my brain. I never say to myself when I hear a no, I don't hear you.

00:31:16
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I literally Google translate.

00:31:17
Speaker 1: I hear not yet, okay, not in a bad way, not consent, but I'm saying like, sounded weird sound and weird, but for things that have to do with my goals, career oriented things that I am driven to do and achieve. When somebody says no, I in my mind just think not yet. I think not yet. The time is not right. And even when people around you will say to you no, you know, don't be silly like you have a side hustle.

00:31:40
Speaker 2: You have something you want to do.

00:31:41
Speaker 1: You want to be CEO of this company one day, and the people around you say that that's come on, really though, I hear all that, and I just say that's a not yet. I get two steps back. I'm gonna find one step forward, and I'm gonna keep doing it. Because again, if you tell yourself no, I know this sounds silly, and I'm not trying to be new age or man manifestor any of that, no brass tax. I'm all about actionable advice. You are setting in stone in your mind. The no, you're not finding the choices you're going to make to get to that place. You're going to give up too early. And so when I say not yet, I'm going to keep looking for those paths up. How can I eventually get this goal achieved? And finding those opportunities, and it might not be for a month, a year, a decade, but I am relentless. It's the same spirit as why I do the ultra marathons. I'm going to finish.

00:32:28
Speaker 3: Did that attitude solidify when you kept getting rejected from America's Got Talent or HGTS? I mean, did that reinforce sort of your drive or your persistence?

00:32:40
Speaker 1: So that was a funny one because that wasn't like a long term goal. I just said I had a few friends shout out to Buddy Jef Berman and his brother Ariy because he's at Howard String. He's obsessed with Howard Stern. It's like, you got to get on the show Howard Strees. A few of my friends just love Howard, and I love Howard too. We know each other quite well now. But he goes, you got to get on the show. Howard's going to love you. And so I decided I would try out, and I started watching the show and then I kind of fell in love with it. But the first time I went and tried out, I was it didn't work out, and it wasn't under my control. They brought me into a room and I had a friend who knew a producer, and I got this like, you know, the casting call, the producer call where Velvet wrote at the club, come on in, sir. I didn't have to wait with five thousand other people for an entire day. So it's the red carpet approach. It so nice. But when I walked in, they didn't know what I do. So they put me bless you.

00:33:28
Speaker 2: I knew you. It's these right.

00:33:29
Speaker 1: Then they put me in a room with a camera and they're like, go and I'm like, I'm not a singer, Like I'm a mind reader. I need to read someone's mind or this is not going to be a good bit. And so they bring in a PA. The PA's on a headset. It's not going well. They're distracted. I'm like, but I don't want to be a stick in the mud. I did not want to be my own advocate or feel like a diva. So I allowed myself to perform in a suboptimal environment.

00:33:51
Speaker 2: It didn't go well. I walked out of there.

00:33:53
Speaker 1: I'm like, this stunk and I obviously didn't make it. And so I learned right then again that same lesson of you need to add for yourself. You need to be your own champion if you keep waiting for others to do it for you. And in our world, an agent, a manager this that, yes, people can help you, but I believe truly no one will ever help you as much as you help yourself. So in that situation, I said, the second time, I'm gonna go back. I'm going to do a much better job. I'm going to be force full, direct, but still go with the flow. But I need to do what I need to succeed. Didn't go well again, right, And that wasn't my fault. It was like minus twelve degrees is in January. I wait outside for eight hours. I couldn't get in, so.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: I had to go. I had a gig. I gotta get paid. So then the third time I came in, I didn't care. And I hear actors.

00:34:36
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of actors on podcasts where they say, I got the you know, the gig of my life. I nailed the audition because I went in not caring. I did not care if I got it or didn't. Things were going pretty well in my life, and I go if I didn't get it twice and things are going well, who cares?

00:34:49
Speaker 3: So is your advice don't care.

00:34:51
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say don't care because I was still very prepared. But there is something about being nonchalant and being loose.

00:34:58
Speaker 2: It's the same as an athlete.

00:35:00
Speaker 1: An athlete that's tense, you know, does a false start, and track and field are swimming and dques. The people that can loosen themselves up. It's sports psychology if you can allow muscle memory to kick in. I went in there and I did tricks that I've done thousands of times. I also, during the three years that I was not on AGT, did nearly probably seven hundred shows, which allowed me to get better and better. Every time I do a show, I'm iterating, I'm seeing what worked what didn't work. When audiences love me great, that feels good for my ego. It doesn't help me one bit. What helps me is when things go wrong, right, that's the best. When you lose as an athlete, you learn much better lessons. Same thing for me. I have a lot of people in my field, and we can become, for lack of better, egomaniac because we're like reading people's minds. They're freaked out. You get nothing but joy, like you're just doing fun things. I am blessed with a life that is beyond lucky. I get to work for myself. But as a mentalist, people will tell you it's kind of like pizza. Even if it's not that good, it's still pretty delicious. So even a mentalist who's not that good, which I'm not measuring success, you'll still be amazed. So some people I've seen they buy it. Any dude, my show is so great, was so grand? Like you didn't learn anything from that? Find what could have been improved? And it doesn't mean you don't have joy. You can be a perfectionist while still enjoying things, but see what you could have done better.

00:36:15
Speaker 2: I always strive to improve.

00:36:17
Speaker 3: You also talk a lot in the book about visualization, right and kind of positive thinking. We've heard a little bit about that, how you don't hear no and you imagine that plexiglass and the bowl of water was salt on one side, not on the other. But how can you actually visualize again, I know you want to give practical advice, so how can you visualize success?

00:36:40
Speaker 1: So you just hit the nail on the head, which is one of the biggest parts. What is success like? Literally for my goal of my definition of success probably differs from almost every other person in this room. And I think that's where I'm uniquely qualified because that's why I do. I get inside people's heads. So part of the book is I just try to get inside your head and help you do it. Figure out what is success for you, because so many of the things that we think are success when we get them aren't always what we really wanted. It's a funny thing when you achieve your goals, you realize was that really my goal?

00:37:09
Speaker 2: To begin with?

00:37:09
Speaker 1: I've had so many people I've talked to like, oh, I want to make this much money, and I go, what does that actually mean?

00:37:13
Speaker 2: Though? Why do you want to make that much money? What will that do for you?

00:37:16
Speaker 1: And then we can break down the steps the same way that when you run a marathon, the first step tends to be the hardest one getting to the start line. So to answer that question, you need to find measurable goals along the way, quantifiable goals, big pie in the sky goals of like I want a better job, what does that mean?

00:37:35
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

00:37:36
Speaker 1: Because when I was kind of coming up, I wanted to quit my job on Wall Street. At some point said I don't want to do this. So I said to myself, how am I going to do that? Right?

00:37:45
Speaker 2: Like, I'm in job and I've got bills.

00:37:47
Speaker 1: And I at that point, I wasn't married and have kids, so I was in a very lucky position versus now it would be daunting if I had to.

00:37:53
Speaker 2: Quit and keep my nose corporations.

00:37:55
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you to quit, everybody, but whatever goal it is that you want to achieve, I started. I had somebody who's a magician stand in front of me and break down my bs for me. He didn't even do it to be nice. He just goes, you, what are you still doing working at that job?

00:38:09
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you love it?

00:38:11
Speaker 1: And he started asking me these very pointed yes or no questions that I in the book tell you to ask yourself.

00:38:16
Speaker 2: And I go, well, I don't know, you know, I never thought of it that way.

00:38:19
Speaker 1: I love it's a job. And he goes, do you want to be doing this in twenty years? And my gut reflex was no. And he goes, well do you love performing? I go yes, and he goes, so what's the problem right now? Well, I make this much money and he goes, okay, so how much do you need to make? And I like, I never thought of this stuff. It's so silly, But so much of the time you're an autopilot. Life is so busy that you don't stop to think what do I really want in a year, in five years and ten years.

00:38:43
Speaker 2: It's so far in the future.

00:38:44
Speaker 1: Especially so many young faces you're starting your career, think what do you want to do? So I started defining it and I just came up with this number and I'm like, I want to make this much money.

00:38:52
Speaker 2: And to me, it was just like the silly throw out there goes all right, how much you make it? Now?

00:38:55
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, what are we getting naked here? Like I just told him everything, and then he goes, so it looks to me like you need to book one more show per week in charge ten percent more?

00:39:04
Speaker 2: Can you do that?

00:39:06
Speaker 1: And it was just it's so silly, but it was so eye opening that when it was put that way, I go, yeah, yeah, fit, I can do that, and it goes, so what's the problem. And it's just if you can have somebody open your eyes and give you realizations of what it is you really want define it and then start taking measurable steps in that direction, you can start to achieve it. And so I wasn't like a special unique person. I just set myself up for success. Especially in college. I was working three jobs. I had my own business. I was working like all different stuff to save money because whenever it was going on like a vacation or they had a car, I bought my car for two grand in cash that I worked. Again, I'm not telling you, I'm not comparing, but I delayed gratification and didn't go on like vacations. When they went on spring break, I was eating ramen and rice with ketchup with My life is so grossed out, so that don't admit that.

00:39:56
Speaker 2: But I'm like, I had no money.

00:39:58
Speaker 1: I want to save this money so that then when the opportunity came and I wanted to quit my job, I had a nest egg to give me a runway for a year that if I hadn't maybe I wouldn't have done that. Maybe you and I would not be talking right now if I hadn't done that, and I'd be middle management at a Wall Street company. There's worse things to me, But that wasn't my destiny. And I had to make those steps happen.

00:40:19
Speaker 3: How hard is it to earn a living as a menalist?

00:40:23
Speaker 1: So that's difficult question because I can't really define what the average mentalist is doing for you.

00:40:28
Speaker 2: For me, it's going very well.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: But uh, I'm very blessed and I can't complain, like, yeah, things are going very well.

00:40:36
Speaker 3: And part of it is you wanted to control your own schedule. You've got five kids, you didn't want to be away from your family so much, and you wanted to really have much more control of your life. Yes, I know that you've had positive experiences out in the world, but you also talk about some of the disastrous ones. And one was that my former place of employment, the Today's show, Oh my God, when things didn't go so well when you appeared and my friend Al Roker kind of tripped you up. Yep, what happened.

00:41:04
Speaker 2: Okay, So live TV, which you know so well, is live.

00:41:08
Speaker 1: There is no like do over, time out, and there's a clock running right there and the clock doesn't stop for anyone. And so for me, when I'm performing, I can get more time to get myself out of a situation. So as I've learned and I've got to answer your question in two parts. I don't mean to duck it. But you said when things go wrong. So what I've learned over time is that define wrong. You only know if something's wrong if you know what right was supposed to be. We here's what I mean. You don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pick your own adventure.

00:41:42
Speaker 2: Right.

00:41:42
Speaker 1: If you're playing sports, you win or you lose. What I do has shades of gray. So if I don't define where I'm going with it, I can do this and this and oh.

00:41:51
Speaker 2: My god, I duck and weaven.

00:41:52
Speaker 1: You don't realize something went completely wrong because I went to a different ending.

00:41:56
Speaker 2: It's the director's cut.

00:41:58
Speaker 1: So I've learned how to kind of misdirect you from what might go wrong. Does that make sense? So I've had shows go wrong that people in your arts have no idea. I just totally fumbled, but it went amazing because you didn't realize that was my third backup.

00:42:11
Speaker 2: The third backup still look great.

00:42:13
Speaker 1: So in this situation, because this is going back seven or eight years ago, I took a very big, big swing. There is no backup. If it doesn't work, you should watch this clip.

00:42:22
Speaker 2: But I have al I think it was Tameran. I want to forget anyone. I think it was Chanelle.

00:42:26
Speaker 1: I can't remember everybody that was with me, but I had this bit where I had magazines like dump a bunch of magazines, old magazines on the table. Pick anyone you want, flip to any page, pick any word you want, change your mind as many times. And it was a presidential election, and I said, pick any word right now, change your mind. We're on live TV, so nobody thinks we set this up. That's the key, change your mind. And so I think Tameran Hall has it, and not to believe with the point, I said, al right, now somebody's gonna run for president in the next election. Who's it going to be? And right at that moment, I'm gonna have to rip my shirt and reveal it. And he goes George Clooney and there's like twenty seconds left on the clocks. Learn my T shirt does not have a picture of George Clooney on it. Okay, so what should be happening right now? My heart rate if you had me in like a whoop or something, was like one hundred and ninety. But what I've learned And what's very funny is that my running, which people always say does that have any parallel? It does is I can maintain a very low heart rate. It's very similar to sniper that. Now I'm serious. I'm actually not joking because the training is similar that my body does not show panic when I feel it. Now, I know you think this is silly, but humans can detect panic by almost by sense of smell and sight. You can detect when someone's tense, and it gives you attention because it goes to our animal instincts.

00:43:39
Speaker 2: It's fight or flight.

00:43:40
Speaker 1: So if I get tense, I know it doesn't sound like it, you will sense it, and I will go into a spiral where it literally will sink the trick because I'm influencing you. The more casual, the more we're relaxed, the more I can influence your thoughts. It's actually it works based on how you feel. That's what I'm doing. So if al Roker noticed that I'm panicking, it's gonna go downhill. So I'm totally nonchalant and I just say to him, Elle, and you can see the book where I go, it's gotta be a guy that and he started feeling like, oh my god, why I had to say it had to be a guy. He almost felt like he offended, and I go, oh oh, and he just changes in the time the clock is almost down, I go, who's it gonna be? I I'm changing It's Taylor Swift. And right then I rip over my shirt and it's a picture of Taylor Swift and he changed mine. And then I said, quick, tell me what's the slogan gonna be of her campaign? And Tammer goes, I don't know. I picked the word independence. And I turn around and at the top it says hashtag independence.

00:44:33
Speaker 2: So they freaked out.

00:44:35
Speaker 1: They bumped the next segment, okay, which does not happen off it on the Today Show author the poor author who saw me in the green raft. I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm not sorry, but i'm sorry. I get four more minutes on TV. And so they had a debrief because they could not like their brain was melted because the T shirt couldn't change. She could have picked any word. She even swore that she changed her mind at the last moment to that word. So they needed to understand how could this have happened? And the reason that that played so strong is because of the danger the dangerous that could have gone wrong.

00:45:07
Speaker 2: It almost did.

00:45:09
Speaker 1: And to answer your question, the lessons I learned there is one, have better backup plans in the future. Second, you need to stay calm. You need to stay calm, and that's a great lesson in life. I am just like everybody else here. I get pissed off. I am on the verge of writing a nasty email to somebody.

00:45:28
Speaker 2: You know what I do?

00:45:29
Speaker 1: I remove them from the two line yes, and I put an alarm in one day. I'm a huge I'm psychotic with alarms. I do alarms on Alexa. I do alarms on my phone. It is a like hidden gem, and I go in twenty four hours. If I still feel the same way, I'm gonna hit send. And that's very few and far between. If I ever sent that exact same email a day later, I don't act in anger.

00:45:51
Speaker 2: Can I give you one.

00:45:52
Speaker 1: More little little please? So this one I call fast forward the feelings. I am a major procrastinator. Everyone's gonna think, oh man, this guy's energetic. Get my wife up here. She's like, no, he's full of crap. He doesn't do the things he doesn't like to do, because going and running twenty miles I enjoy, even though it sounds nuts. But things I don't enjoy are confrontation. I don't like confrontation. I don't like when I have to call somebody and give them bad news. I'll dread it. I'll avoid it. Everyone has their things they don't like to do, so I will procrastinate the things I don't like. I now have forced myself to say, right now, how do I feel anxiety?

00:46:27
Speaker 2: One to ten?

00:46:28
Speaker 1: Dread about doing this thing I don't want to do, and I'll be like, I'm a seven right now, God, I don't want to do it, And I'll put an alarm and say rank firing or whatever you're gonna do, rank doing this thing twenty four hours from now, and then I'll go I'm doing it right now. I do the call, I handle it, and then done. And then when the alarm goes off, I've forgotten about this. The next day, I look at the thing. How do I feel? I'm a one or two? And so what just happened? Everybody think about this, because your brain is the most amazing processor and computer in the world. Nothing happened, but time feelings you're in control of. So how do I feel now after I did it? I don't feel any anxiety or dread. So if I can just take this and trick my brain the same way I trick your brains when I perform, I'm gonna feel like that now. So what I do is I just fask on my feelings. Right when I feel the dread, I go, I know I'm a seven or eight. Now that's fake. I'm gonna feel like a one or two tomorrow. So I just say to myself, Nope, I'm gonna handle this now. I'm gonna feel so much better. And I force myself not to procrastinate. And I'm telling you, just do it. Just do it with one thing in the next forty eight hours. Try it with an alarm, get it on your phone. I know it sounds so silly, but it's you have to actually try this, just like my kid has to touch a stove once to feel what it's like. You can't explain it to that, but I haven't done that to my children.

00:47:41
Speaker 2: Don't call. But but you have to learn. You have to learn it.

00:47:45
Speaker 1: So I did that a few times with the alarm, with the whole bit that I just told you. And as soon as you do and you realize the dread is just in your mind. The procrastination for so many things is just your own thing. It's taking the first step. That's always the hardest part for procrastinators like me. It's getting over the first thing and then starting the same as writing the book, writer's block was killing me, and then I realized I don't like sitting in a computer, So I've dictated the whole book while running. The whole book was while running, true.

00:48:12
Speaker 3: You're insane. If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Does anyone have a question for before he does his thing? Do we have time for a quick question?

00:48:46
Speaker 2: Oh?

00:48:46
Speaker 3: We have shy people here, anybody.

00:48:48
Speaker 1: Seriously, I've never not been running question. John already asked me what's the powerball numbers?

00:48:53
Speaker 2: Boy? I got here, go bigger, go home.

00:48:57
Speaker 3: So's the question was? Did he have a backro?

00:48:58
Speaker 2: So I have backup plans?

00:48:59
Speaker 1: Because again I'm planting thoughts, so I'm not just so he is going down a path where there's six different roads, eight different roads.

00:49:08
Speaker 2: I've limited him to a very few. That's truly the case.

00:49:10
Speaker 1: He went down the wrong one, so I had to find a way to get him to think that he went down the right one. It could have gone wrong. I'm swearing to you on my life. There was no way that if that went wrong, the clock ends, we go to commercial. If I had two more minutes, I could have fixed it, no matter what.

00:49:26
Speaker 2: But the backup plan always needs more time.

00:49:29
Speaker 3: Other than this, Savana at Horizon Media, what was the coolest thing you were if you ever got to.

00:49:35
Speaker 2: Do the silver Metal? That is a tough one. There is. I don't know that that's the same.

00:49:42
Speaker 1: I think that one of the moments that really changed my view of myself was America's Got Talented Finale.

00:49:48
Speaker 2: It was at Radio City Music Hall. I did. If you watch it, it's this thing. It was pretty wild.

00:49:52
Speaker 1: It had like these colored different colored chairs, and it's not my favorite trick I've ever done, but it was so risky and the producers know exist eactly how you do it because they have somebody on staff who's like me, who's a magic and mentalist producer and we're talking.

00:50:05
Speaker 2: About it and he's like, dude, this could go so wrong, and like what are you? How are you?

00:50:08
Speaker 1: And you know, And that's been one of my skills is I'm willing to take risks that others don't. So when you could ask to compare mentalists, I'm willing to take big risks because big risks lead to big rewards and you have to really believe in yourself. So I took a big risk there and it could have gone so wrong. It came like just like that Al Roker. If you knew the behind the scenes, it was like a razor's edge. And then when it finished, just the relief, the joy, and just the validation because I'm in New York. This is my city, right, this is where I came here when I was twenty one. This feels like home. If you can make it here, you make it anywhere. I'm in radio City and you use a call and just like the reaction the There's been so many amazing things since being on before the Super Bowl, having my own show, like there's a lot of Emmy Like, there's been a lot of things I've been very meaningful, But that moment right there was just like I started like Neo and the Matrix to be like, I believe I'm actually wor the of doing this. Before that I didn't really Okay, I'm good at this, but this validated me.

00:51:05
Speaker 3: All right, Okay, go ahead.

00:51:09
Speaker 1: Mall.

00:51:13
Speaker 2: Fools me. Yeah, yeah, yes, did.

00:51:23
Speaker 3: You have that question? You guys? Did you all hear that?

00:51:25
Speaker 2: John's like, can you just tell me?

00:51:27
Speaker 1: Low key like Mike's off, This room's cool, I'll sign an NBA.

00:51:32
Speaker 2: How's the card in the orange?

00:51:35
Speaker 1: Let's do something, so Katie, I always like to be transparent, right, journalistic integrity. When we're in the other room, I asked Katie, and I said, I want you to picture this. And I said that throughout the course of the interview, I'm hoping to plant little thoughts in her mind. Now, I don't think that she's gonna backtrack this and see how but I told you that during the interview, I would ask you to imagine yourself in a room for potentially a milestone birthday. It doesn't have to elstone birthday, just be in my but a room with all the people you care about, but a big room where you invite people from all different parts of your life, family, friends, people you've probably worked with, people you've interacted with. You know, these are people close to you that could be famous, fields, all different people that in your life. If you were throwing a big bash and a big celebration, you would want them there. Can you right now? And this is in the moment. Okay, this is what I call spontaneous and impulsive. Can you start to see faces of various people in this room? And obviously you've to make a whole guest list, but can you start seeing and imagining certain people in this room? So see someone right now, Okay, a man, a woman, See somebody else, see somebody else, and imagine you're turning, walking around them, You're waving, you're saying hi, you see, oh my god, see that person. Give me a little act. Yeah, look at that Katie smile. It's like, oh my god, I haven't seen it so long. When suddenly, this is the part I want. I said the visualization exercise. You're turned this way and somebody taps you on the shoulder. Okay, you get this tap on the shoulder, you turn around and you look who it is, and you look this person right in the eye.

00:53:01
Speaker 2: Can you visualize this person's face? Can you see them, I can so watch there's right away. This is fifty to fifty. But I know it's a female. Is it a female?

00:53:09
Speaker 1: Yes, of course it is. How did I know body language? If it was a guy, there's typically a different touch, a hair touch. Right, John's like, who is this guy?

00:53:20
Speaker 2: All right?

00:53:22
Speaker 1: Think of her first name, and I want you to count the number of letters in her first name, just to yourself.

00:53:30
Speaker 2: Do it within your mind. So the nod was.

00:53:33
Speaker 1: Relatively quick, right in essence, she said I'm done counting without saying it out loud, but she didn't take a really long time. If this is a long name, Alexandra, right, if this is a very short name, it's three or four letters, you don't really count that.

00:53:49
Speaker 2: You just know it.

00:53:50
Speaker 1: So you know, just by what I just told you that this name is typically five, six or seven letters.

00:53:55
Speaker 2: Look at her, she's looked a little nervous.

00:53:57
Speaker 1: Right, it's un right obviously, And then I actually see with five letters, isn't it? Yes, think of the different letters in the name. Now we're playing a game of hangman. See the five letters, and I want you to mix them around so they're not in the right order. And I want you to stop, and I want you to just reach up. And I always like to see this. You're indecisive about it. You know, I don't know which one. I don't know which one. And then you just grab out one letter? Did you just grab a letter out of her first name?

00:54:25
Speaker 3: Do you want me to actually pretend to grab a letter?

00:54:27
Speaker 2: Sure?

00:54:28
Speaker 1: It went look at this all method over here. I did channeling Meryl Streep. So if you if you now again, you didn't do the first letter?

00:54:37
Speaker 2: Did you know? So?

00:54:38
Speaker 1: How did I know that? Because Katie's too she's a journalist. She realizes that if she gave the first letter away, the name becomes so much easier. Also, I said in the name, as soon as you say that, nine out of ten, nobody will do the first letter. It feels like it's got to be in the middle. Did you do the last letter?

00:54:55
Speaker 3: Yes?

00:54:55
Speaker 2: I knew it in but she does.

00:54:57
Speaker 1: To the end, and then you're gonna retry only one one letter in the whole alphabet?

00:55:02
Speaker 2: Elicits a question, a question line? How are you right? That feeling of a question?

00:55:06
Speaker 1: You raise your eyebrows, you notice a why you're thinking a letter?

00:55:10
Speaker 2: Why aren't you?

00:55:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, close your eyes? Please can everybody in the room. See it, Katie, open your eyes. Swear to us, this is not stage, This is not set up. You could have picked anybody you wanted. In fact, you just saw all different people in this room in that moment.

00:55:27
Speaker 2: Am I right?

00:55:28
Speaker 1: There's you could have thought of anybody that could have been attending your birthday party?

00:55:31
Speaker 2: True story true? What's her first name?

00:55:33
Speaker 3: Wendy?

00:55:34
Speaker 2: Wendy.

00:55:42
Speaker 1: Now imagine that when you turn around, you turn around, you see Wendy. And now if it was a birthday party, I'm still holding the why no, no, throw the throw the wine.

00:55:56
Speaker 2: Kay's like, I'm so freaked. I don't in my hands right now watching me.

00:56:03
Speaker 1: Most people when they see you at a birthday party, they go happy birthday, right, that's the standard. They go Happy birthday. And that's what you'd expect. That's look this way at me. Wendy sees you. She tapped you on the shoulder. You don't know who would be until you turn around.

00:56:18
Speaker 2: You saw her face.

00:56:19
Speaker 1: You filled in the blanks, and imagine that when she does that, she says happy birthday.

00:56:25
Speaker 2: You look into each other's eyes. That was it.

00:56:31
Speaker 1: Create memorable moments somebody will never forget. She didn't say happy birthday, Katie. She said happy birthday, cats, didn't she? Yes, she calls you cats? Yes, how did you know that?

00:56:46
Speaker 2: Hold the applause in apparently.

00:56:50
Speaker 3: Well, do you have the piece of paper? John has the piece of paper?

00:56:54
Speaker 2: Wait?

00:56:55
Speaker 1: Hold on, I want to try one thing we had people in the audience. How about we'll try one last thing here. We'll have a fun one everyone in this audience. I like to ask people a question.

00:57:02
Speaker 2: I asked you a.

00:57:03
Speaker 1: Question if you could sit down and have dinner with somebody famous, sit down or have an interview with somebody famous right dead or alive, man, woman, whatever, fascinating question. Who'd you have dinner with? Who'd you want to sit down with? This is a fascinating question. I like to ask people this question. Have you heard this before? You've heard this before? People have heard this. It's an interview question. It's one of those ones that gets you thinking. All right, nod your head. If you've thought of somebody some of you did? Quick, So you did it?

00:57:28
Speaker 2: Yes?

00:57:29
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, range your end. If you have somebody, give me a hand up. Okay, beautiful, let's see how about right over. I'm going to go one more time. Hand up, let's seeh seems enthusiastic. Right over here, you're sat in the front row. She wanted in, what is your name?

00:57:43
Speaker 2: Sam? Have you ever spoken a word in our life? Okay? Sam? Did you? Did you have your phone? Grab your phone for a second? Okay?

00:57:53
Speaker 1: I like one guy just looked at me, had his phone in hand, deleted his browser history. Sam, if you could, I'm gonna have you go to like Chrome or Safari or a browser. I don't care what you got it. And then we've got Sam and one more person.

00:58:10
Speaker 2: Right.

00:58:10
Speaker 1: Look, I saw Daisy I met earlier, had her hand. I was like, what about me, Daisy? Let me ask you a question. Who is sitting next to you? Tell everybody who's sitting next to you? Richard?

00:58:23
Speaker 2: Do you think that Richard would know who you went with in this case? Okay? Not a good listener, apparently, I'm I'm kidding. How would he know? But that's good.

00:58:34
Speaker 1: That means that it wasn't an obvious choice, because if you're like, oh my god, of course you know, then she would have picked somebody. Obviously her husband would have known. I like that, that's difficult. You have your phone, grab your phone? You're in Okay, so do this.

00:58:44
Speaker 2: I want you. Oh, if we go to Google, I like how you're so polite. You're on D and D the whole time.

00:58:48
Speaker 1: Okay, whatever, we go to Google, I want you to take a few steps away.

00:58:52
Speaker 2: Where can we go? Like maybe behind this camera?

00:58:54
Speaker 1: You ready go over here wherever you want to go and hide behind them so nobody could see this. And I want you if you could do an image search.

00:59:01
Speaker 2: Is that all right?

00:59:02
Speaker 1: Just come on closer? Oh, not too far. I want you to find a picture of your person. You're right, and do it in next ten seconds. Make sure no one's looking behind you. Have you done it?

00:59:11
Speaker 2: Hold it close to your chest. Let's see. Let's see.

00:59:14
Speaker 1: Okay, think if it's a man or woman. Think if it's a man or a woman. Let me watch the reaction, see the tension. It's not what you did before.

00:59:21
Speaker 2: You a female? Guy? One hundred percent? Is it a guy? Yes?

00:59:26
Speaker 1: I could tell Richard just goes, he goes, Yeah.

00:59:32
Speaker 2: I think it's a female. Is it's a female? It's a guy? Okay?

00:59:35
Speaker 1: Interesting if I got to write every time everyone show oh yeah, she knew what to do. See she used it against me. That's perfectly fine. A guy, I want to ask you a question. You could be completely honest when you thought of the first person, did you instantly know you're gonna go with him? Were you debating people you knew instantly? Okay, why do I think that? Why do I think that?

00:59:55
Speaker 2: You know?

00:59:55
Speaker 1: You never know what these things? It's not a magic trick. I like how the guy it was like, did it go wrong with al Roker's like, it's about to go wrong here too? Yeah, Sam, we got him.

01:00:09
Speaker 2: It's been it's been heavy.

01:00:10
Speaker 1: You know what I thought, I'm gonna show you this, I thought, I thought, Sam, you know what, we didn't really do. We didn't go to politics. I did not the right spot. I think you went in the world of entertainment. I'm done. It's it's somebody who's in the world of entertainment. Is that correct? My gut says those who can tell you know what gets stuck in your head? Songs? You get a song, you can't get it out of your head. You could try, you can't.

01:00:35
Speaker 2: Singers. Is she hearing a song in her head? Singer? Tell us all what's his name? Who is he? Don't ever doubt me? Horizon Media. Don't you don't you want.

01:01:01
Speaker 3: Katie, I stopped you because I did our DJ I didn't take it out.

01:01:06
Speaker 2: I don't know what that Okay, you didn't get me. Yeah, that's uh.

01:01:11
Speaker 1: I had somebody recently do a name in Mandarin and they were like, we're gonna flex on you, like, don't you don't.

01:01:16
Speaker 2: Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. I got this.

01:01:19
Speaker 1: I gave you a piece of paper with Robert Downey Jr. And we got to go fast because I have a school event. I want you to reach up, lock it in, and I want you to throw it any direction you want and someone else catch someone, close your eyes, throw it somewhere, someone catch anybody, or Katie, throw it in the only place where there's nobody in the room for the live stream work.

01:01:41
Speaker 2: It's all I'm totally kidding. Who's got it? Who's got it? What is your name? Laura? Did I say correctly? Have we ever spoken a word in our life? Do you know? Daisy?

01:01:52
Speaker 1: Okay, here's what we do, Laura. My book is not going to teach you to be a mentalist. Frankly, I know that sounds cool, but it's not that useful, right. I want to empower you think like a mentalist. Use my skills to your advantage. And so what you're gonna do, You're gonna be my protege right now, So come on up, let's bring up what's here for Laura?

01:02:09
Speaker 2: Everybody.

01:02:12
Speaker 1: I gotta move you on this way so you can see you got you're deciding to see anything? Daisy? Can I move you? Can I move you a step or two back here? Just grab you don't need your phone, you don't need anything. Grab a pad of paper, Grab a marker, Laura, throw it over your shoulder.

01:02:27
Speaker 2: You don't need it.

01:02:28
Speaker 1: All right, here's the game. You are going to be my mind reader. So what I want you to do is right now, the O open the market yet? Is I want you to give us your best mind reading pose? Hit it like this?

01:02:39
Speaker 2: Yeah?

01:02:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, how is she going to do this? You threw that ball anywhere, Katie. This could be anyone. You can open your eyes. Okay, Daisy, you could have thought of anyone. Right, You don't know each other, Laura. I want you to come next to me, right, believe it. In order to achieve it, Picture that somewhere in Daisy's home there is a Okay, I don't know if there is, but we're making this up. And then if we flip through the pages, we stop on a page, and on that page at the top, this is who would I want to have dinner with? And we rip that page out. Now I'm gonna pretend to hold a page in front of me. But look in my hands. There's not actually paper or anything in my hands.

01:03:13
Speaker 2: Correct.

01:03:14
Speaker 1: No, But in a moment, she will swear up and down that she's seeing a piece of paper in front of her clear as day. It's gonna feel almost like I'm hypnotizing you. And bring it a little closer. Give me one more mind reading post, and now open your eyes. Look this way and me looks away me. I take this piece of paper. Can you guys kind of move you over this way?

01:03:33
Speaker 3: Key?

01:03:33
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you can you see me or no? And and I want you well, I've never had people above me. I gotta move you this way. This is there in the skybox. Is I want you? Oh mind reading posts? Yeah, come on, get method look this way, and I let the piece of paper drop.

01:03:51
Speaker 2: And it's about to be the moment you don't see anything yet. Watch when I snap my fingers.

01:03:54
Speaker 1: That's when you get hypnotized and I want you to look down in my hand, and I want you to nod your head if you're playing along and you see it, clearest day, and I want your lord to close your eyes, close your eyes closures, and I want you to keep saying the name over and over in your head. Now, folks, imagine what if the ball that Katie had thrown had been caught by you and you were up here on stage with some crazy mentalists trying to pretend like you saw a journal. What would you do in this moment? Keep your eyes closed, open the marker. Please write down your person's first and last name. Write down that person's first and last name, nice and big, go ahead. Make sure that she is not peeking, that she cannot see a thing you wrote it, Big, open your eyes if she's even close. I don't want this half hearted energy I've been getting so far Wednesday afternoon. I want Friday night. I want pandemonium. If lightning strikes at Horizon Media, there better not be one butt still in a seat unless you are mobility impaired.

01:04:51
Speaker 2: Don't look in her eyes, look into her soul.

01:04:54
Speaker 1: And Laura tell Daisy who is she sitting down to dinner with Michael?

01:05:00
Speaker 2: Turn Around Show, Everybody.

01:05:02
Speaker 1: Show, Everybody Show, Everybody, Daisy Show, Everybody.

01:05:10
Speaker 2: Show.

01:05:18
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, everybody, Thank you.

01:05:24
Speaker 3: That was awesome.

01:05:25
Speaker 2: Thank you.

01:05:36
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.