Jonathan Lipnicki Meets World

00:00:18
Speaker 1: At some point during this holiday season.

00:00:20
Speaker 2: I've completely lost track of time, so I believe it was before New Year's after.

00:00:26
Speaker 1: Christmas, okay, okay, So I went to the Queen Mary.

00:00:30
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, oh right, which is the second time I've been to the Queen Mary in the last few months. Because I went down there, they did this, they do a Halloween Dark Harbor thing with like haunted mazes and stuff. In India was obsessed with mases this holiday season, so we went to all of the ones in LA and we.

00:00:46
Speaker 1: Went down to that one.

00:00:47
Speaker 2: It was so much fun and we actually slept on the Queen Mary for the night, and so we decided to do it again with family in from out of town. We were like, let's go to the Queen Mary. And you guys, you have to the two of you have to go to the Queen Mary.

00:00:59
Speaker 3: For I never go back to the Queen Mary.

00:01:01
Speaker 1: Now what No, no, oh, you have a Queen Marry story.

00:01:04
Speaker 3: I have too many, too many.

00:01:06
Speaker 2: Because they have the greatest buffet in the history of the world. So like, we stayed the night and then and Alex kept being like no, no, no, no, the buffet and I.

00:01:17
Speaker 1: Was like, yeah, okay, the buffet whatever you know, I don't. I'm not like a buffet person.

00:01:20
Speaker 4: How are you not? As anybody? I don't eat enough either?

00:01:26
Speaker 1: Do you need see?

00:01:29
Speaker 2: Like yeah, Like my brother in law was like he's made for a buffet, like this is just his you know, like most of my in laws, like they're just like yes, bring on, like all the options, and I'm like the most boring, especially when.

00:01:40
Speaker 1: It comes to breakfast. It's like the most boring breakfast.

00:01:42
Speaker 2: I like, the idea of toast is just as exciting as a waffle that's been handmade in front of me with I don't care about anyway.

00:01:50
Speaker 1: This was beautiful.

00:01:51
Speaker 2: This was by far the best buffet I've ever seen, and outside of a cruise ship especially, so you guys, maybe we should just go down and do an episode from the buffet of the Queen Mary.

00:02:00
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's in this giant I will be.

00:02:02
Speaker 4: That's fine because to be eating the whole time.

00:02:07
Speaker 5: Seriously, I tell you, every time we're in Vegas, every time I hit a buffet, it's where I make all my money back.

00:02:11
Speaker 1: It turns out because you know, Alex was selling me on this.

00:02:13
Speaker 2: It's like ranked in world buffets as like one of the best and they do it on the weekends and you're on the boat in this like old ballroom, and that's the thing. But like what I realized about cruise ships, like because when I walked into the Queen Mary, I was like, well, if cruise ships looked like this, I'd be into it because it's that old school nineteen thirties like art deco signage.

00:02:34
Speaker 5: You want to be on the Titanic, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I want old cruise.

00:02:39
Speaker 2: Like the fact that cruise ships are like all made to look vegacy and nice and new is like so uninteresting to me.

00:02:45
Speaker 1: Whereas if you.

00:02:46
Speaker 2: Go in like an old classy boat where you like and people dress in top hats.

00:02:50
Speaker 1: Yes I'm in if some did.

00:02:52
Speaker 5: Others died in steerage, so if you were a top at guy, it was a great.

00:02:59
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't want to be on the actual Titanic, but if they could take the ship the style of the Titanic and make a cruise that's that style, that's like, hey.

00:03:07
Speaker 4: We don't have any of those. There's gotta be like a thirty. That's what I keep saying too, That's what I keeping like.

00:03:13
Speaker 1: The Queen Mary's retired.

00:03:14
Speaker 2: It's just a hotel now, which is cool and like, but yeah, and it's all it's preserved in this old school style. No, I think they're chasing trends, like they're constantly trying to make cruise ships new or like exciting and have all the features. But I would be down for like we're just taking like an old classy boat and we're giving you a classic old school like.

00:03:34
Speaker 1: You know, tour. Like I'd be so into that. Anyway, I told.

00:03:38
Speaker 3: You my grandparents that was their honeymoon, a cruise on the Queen Mary. Yes, on the last voyage the Queen Mary t before it docked. And so my grandfather, who never threw away anything, we exactly my grandfather and Wilfred Dell were very much the same person. Had an a digital image that was originally like you know, a film picture that he scanned because my grandfather was very technologically savvy all the way until he was ninety nine and a half, and it was of his luggage tack that and so I knew what room he stayed in. So I was able to go to the Queen Mary and they have on display the ship has since like the rooms have been renovated obviously since nineteen fifty two, but based on the maps of the ship, I was able to find where his room would have been on the ship and then asked someone if they could take me to that area, and I was actually able to stand in the room that at one point in time would have been my grandfather's whole room, which is.

00:04:43
Speaker 4: Very, very sweet, very awesome. Writer. There's a there's a fat So we're talking the meat station.

00:04:50
Speaker 2: Yep, different station, different countries. So you have like an Italian section, you have a Mexican section. Yeah, this is like the wind Vision section. They had sushi like it was insane, like for breakfast. Oh yeah, brunch technically, so if it's later. But I definitely hit the sushi, like, oh, it was so good.

00:05:10
Speaker 3: I don't like buffet sushi. It's too cold.

00:05:13
Speaker 4: But hold on.

00:05:15
Speaker 1: You just told a story that was.

00:05:19
Speaker 4: The Queen Mary. Oh.

00:05:20
Speaker 3: I love that story about the Queen Mary. I also shot a horrible movie I refused to talk about on the Queen Mary and was trapped on it.

00:05:27
Speaker 5: GameCube or whatever, the one we're supposed to we'll talk about that.

00:05:32
Speaker 1: You're not going to talk about the one.

00:05:34
Speaker 3: Not going to talk about it?

00:05:36
Speaker 1: Is dorm does okay?

00:05:38
Speaker 3: Okay, it took place on the Queen Mary. I mean it wasn't. We weren't supposed to be on the Queen Mary. We were like on a ship. On a ship.

00:05:44
Speaker 1: Were you supposed to be at sea?

00:05:46
Speaker 3: I don't remember easing. I remember it's.

00:05:47
Speaker 1: Called dorm Days, but it doesn't take place in a dorm.

00:05:50
Speaker 3: It was supposed to be a dorm. It was supposed to be dorm rooms, but I don't remember if we used room. Were supposed to also be on the ship. Yeah, we were also listen. I don't remember did you cannot?

00:05:59
Speaker 6: Did you read I?

00:06:00
Speaker 3: Did I read this copect?

00:06:01
Speaker 6: I read it.

00:06:03
Speaker 3: I don't remember a single thing about it except there was a monkey. I worked with a monkey, of course, and the monkey attacked and it was very scary. It like ran up my dress and I was like, oh, so it wasn't supposed to attack, no, no, no, but I had to. So you know, the monkeys like they're on set and it's like, please don't look at the monkeys. The monkeys could attack at any time, and it's like, okay, we It was literally like the biggest star in the world was coming on. You do not make eye contact with the monkeys. Here are the rules. If you have to work with the monkey, then you can be close to the monkey. Please do not make any sudden movements.

00:06:37
Speaker 1: Around the monkey.

00:06:37
Speaker 2: You got that rule Number three was the monkey loves to panga exactly.

00:06:42
Speaker 1: They took one look at you and was like.

00:06:43
Speaker 5: God, do you remember when had the same rules when the monkeys were on our show.

00:06:47
Speaker 4: It's like Mokey Dolan's directly in the eyes.

00:06:50
Speaker 5: No, no big movements around Peter Tork, we had all that same kind of stuff.

00:06:55
Speaker 3: The problem was my scene with the monkey. So what I do remember from because of the monkey is that there was a there's a jewel in the movie, like, and we're all trying to get this gem or this jewel or something a dorm or maybe we're not supposed to be honest, I don't know.

00:07:12
Speaker 2: I want Danielle to read the script for the first time, so we don't understand the movie this.

00:07:17
Speaker 4: Point, the crayon has washed away.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, So.

00:07:22
Speaker 3: The problem was at some point the monkey gets the jewel and I am trying to get the jewel. So in the scene, the monkey comes flying around the corner and I come face to face with the monkey. The monkey turns and runs away from me, and I have to lunge after the monkey. And so it's like, wait a minute, what do you mean, no sudden route? What do you mean no sudden moves around the monkey?

00:07:43
Speaker 6: Right?

00:07:43
Speaker 3: I have to lunge at the monkey. So they were like, so we're just gonna make sure that you know the get the Let the monkey get this far before you do the lunge, and you know, magic of film, it'll look like you're still close. And I was like, okay, so I wait till I see the monkey. He hit the mark and then I lunch it was not far enough. The monkey still spun around and was then furious at me and.

00:08:08
Speaker 1: You're lunching at it, yeah, and charged.

00:08:10
Speaker 3: At me and I had to get up really fast, and the monkey like ran up into what I was wearing, which I seem to remember being a dress similar to a wedding dress. But I have no idea why I was in a wedding dress. And I don't remember being in a wedding dress. Maybe you're on a boat in dorm days.

00:08:25
Speaker 1: It was dorm. It's your honeymoon, it's honey.

00:08:30
Speaker 4: Exactly.

00:08:32
Speaker 3: Anyway, I I literally every time I other than my grandfather, which is why I tell that story all the time. Anytime I think of the Queen Mary, I have literal PTSD. I have PTSD chills of that. It's not even it's not even that, it's just the movie. The movie. I get literal shutters.

00:08:51
Speaker 4: Oh man, I'm sorry, sorry to hear that. But there's an omelet station.

00:08:57
Speaker 3: I know. Did they have donuts?

00:09:00
Speaker 1: No, but they had some incredible pastry desserts.

00:09:02
Speaker 5: Say, he's gotta be some baked goods and Banana Foster's.

00:09:06
Speaker 4: Oh like yeah, with ice cream.

00:09:09
Speaker 3: Isn't it called Banana's Foster, not Banana Foster's.

00:09:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, r bananas Foster.

00:09:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, passers by, okay, Attorneys General, Attorney's General.

00:09:22
Speaker 4: There you go.

00:09:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, I before E is so, doctor C got it.

00:09:31
Speaker 4: Welcome to Pod Meets World.

00:09:32
Speaker 3: I'm Daniel Fishel, I'm right or strong, and I'm Will's Fredell.

00:09:41
Speaker 1: That's good.

00:09:55
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty six, it's hard to believe, but at one point in time, there was some we have talked about a lot, which is monoculture. It's defined as a time or environment where most people are consuming the same media and cultural experiences. Watching the same shows, listening to the same music, reacting to the same big pop culture moments. So there's a shared conversation. And for some reason, it was imagined around a water cooler. Now in a wasteland where media comes and goes, celebrity is fleeting, and kids get famous for dressing like the Loraxe and dancing on TikTok and and Arby's. Well, let's just say, is that a real thing? I'm gonna say yes. I don't know it, but I'm gonna go.

00:10:37
Speaker 4: With yes, Nike.

00:10:40
Speaker 3: Let's just say things are a little more fragmented. But today's guest is proof that the nineties was a campfire of sorts, all of us joined together roasting marshmallows and reciting lines from the most adorable young actor of the decade. His first big job in movies was Get This, playing opposite Tom Cruise as cute as a button Ray boyd in Jerry Maguire, where his spiky hair, round glasses, and impulsive random facts made him a world renowned superstar overnight. Before the time Jonathan was ten, his films had grossed nearly three quarters of a billion dollars at the box office. His celebrity was rarefied air for child actors beyond anything an agent could ever promise or imagine when parents decide to let their kids act and he has the planet Hollywood Jackets to prove it. He'd also portray Justin Foxworthy, the son of Jeff on The Jeff Foxworthy Show, George Little in the blockbuster film Stuart Little, and Murph in the Lil Bow Wow Basketball Masterpiece. Like Mike, but like we've talked about endlessly on this show, when the spotlight is your job before you're even a teenager, things can get confusing. He's been honest and brave about his career since, but most recently he appeared on the newest season of The Joe Schmos Show and set to star in an upcoming thriller Williston alongside Matt Walsh and Geneva Carr. And yes, he also now holds a Brazilian Jiu jitsu black belt and has trained extensively in Mui Thai, So he has that in common with will.

00:12:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, very similar, very similar.

00:12:21
Speaker 3: So today he will sit with three other child actors who've been honest after their lives post Hollywood stardom, now on a less monocultural podcast called pod meets World. Welcome to the show, my pal, Jonathan Lipniki.

00:12:36
Speaker 4: Oh look at you.

00:12:41
Speaker 3: I was just saying in your intro that you have a black belt in jiu jitsu and have trained extensively in muey taie, and that's Will's dream.

00:12:50
Speaker 5: Yeah. I have a squeaky belt that barely holds up my pants, and I have a white belt in nine different disciplines.

00:12:58
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

00:13:00
Speaker 6: Well, never too late to start, Never too late to start. Twenty twenty six.

00:13:04
Speaker 5: I actually I'm I'm actually going to with the people that train with the Lawrence Boys, who lives right down the street from us.

00:13:10
Speaker 1: So this year you're going to start doing martial arts.

00:13:12
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm going to start Brazilian jiu jitsu this year, right God?

00:13:16
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm that's exciting.

00:13:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty excited. Okay, I get a white belt in that too.

00:13:21
Speaker 1: What do you start in Brazilian jujitsuary?

00:13:23
Speaker 4: Isn't it like all grappling?

00:13:25
Speaker 6: I think, yeah, it's all grappling. You know, there's gee and nogi. So gee is like the traditional kimono and nogi is like a rash guard in shorts. So you can do bold, you can focus on one. But generally to like progress spelt levels. You're doing both.

00:13:39
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so cool. Oh man, I didn't get a gee. I did start mixed martial arts karate, but I never I never made it to the to the part of testing, so I didn't get a G.

00:13:54
Speaker 6: Yeah. Never too late.

00:13:56
Speaker 3: Maybe this is my year.

00:13:57
Speaker 4: We'll have to do it.

00:13:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, I cook with g I like which is a clarified butter, which is which is magical?

00:14:03
Speaker 4: So yeah, but it's.

00:14:06
Speaker 3: We are so happy to see you, Jonathan. If nothing else, this podcast lets us sit down with one people that we love and don't get to see enough, and two people who get to open up about what being a child actor was really like. So your experience is like none other. So thank you for agreeing to hang out with us.

00:14:25
Speaker 6: Oh, thank you for having me. You know, love you guys, So it's an honor to be here.

00:14:30
Speaker 3: Let's talk about you starting to audition at five years old. I know, like a lot of us kid actors, you were a valley kid. Was it your idea to act? How did you express that to your parents?

00:14:44
Speaker 6: So it's really funny. Actually I never thought of it, even until my sister tried an acting class outt Gorah Hills, and I think it's like you always kind of want to do what your older sibling's doing. I know a lot of sibling relationships like that, and so I wanted to try it. And the acting teacher, you know, it's like, we don't generally take people this young, but he has a lot of charisma. Give it a try. Then, you know, from what I remember, we practiced auditions in class and I was like, you know, after doing that, I'm like, this is so fun. I told my parents I wanted to audition, and they were like nah, and they're like, no, I wanted to you like, stick with some sports. But I kept pushing and they were like, you know what, Look, he'll probably like do it a few times, and you know he'll get sick of all the driving and you know, get over it. But I started auditioning. I got an agent, and I looked like a few national commercials, and then then I got Jerry Maguire.

00:15:39
Speaker 3: I mean, to go from having not worked at all to booking national commercials, how long was it, like, how long were you auditioning before you booked Jerry Maguire.

00:15:51
Speaker 6: I have no clue, you know, a few months now, you know, I think, like probably late six months. I ad for Jerry McGuire and I didn't get it. They went with another kid. They shot two weeks with him, and they wouldn't they wouldn't see me when they were recasting it because I was on a list of people had already been seen, but I'd been seen by an associate, not the casting director. And I had an asient at the time, wonderful guy, and he was ahead of the children's talent division at this agency, and he said, don't see any of my other kids. I stake my reputation on, you know, in the industry on this. I have Ray BOYD sitting in my chair right now, Please see him. I was seen by the casting director and they're like, how would you like to fly out to Arizona tomorrow and meet Tom Cruise and read for him and Cameron Crow and Arizona where they're doing the football scenes. Read for Tom and Cameron. My parents were there, of course. In Tom's trailer. Tom we had really good chemistry and he's like, you know, I think my decision here is clear. I'll leave it up to Cameron. And that was it.

00:16:56
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on you, Okay, this is a tough question. I have a tough question.

00:17:00
Speaker 4: How much of this do you actually remember?

00:17:02
Speaker 2: And how much of this is like because you've been told these stories, do you think that you've like recreated the matter? Do you have like a visual memory of any of this?

00:17:10
Speaker 6: Uh? Yeah, So I we bought when we were in Arizona, we bought this Phoenix Sun's T shirt T shirt for me, and I remember that T shirt for sure. But like I remember like glimpses, like little images right being in the trailer. I had the sides for a long time that I used in that audition, So like it's like bits and pieces, and I feel like every year I get older, it's like more of a recreation. But that that's like the high level right there kind of how it went down. But you know, it's it's good having my parents there. They're very involved and you know they remember a lot more than I do.

00:17:47
Speaker 3: Unbelievable. And you so you were five at this time. Did the sides that you had were you reading? Like I For me, I have a six year old, a six and a half year old. He doesn't go more than three seconds without saying poop or But so I just like, I mean, it's unbelievable to me that at five, You're like, I had some signs. I was memorizing lines. I was just shooting with Tom Cruise like, wow, you do.

00:18:15
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I ran it a lot with my mom. I didn't really read well then, but it was funny kind of the jump in learning where you know, I was reading like go dog go, Yeah, and then I went to reading screenplays, you know, really big, Like it was a really big jump. And I say that to make the point that I think I got a really you know, between having that and really some great onset teachers. My ability to read was just way ahead of of my peers because of because of acting. I don't know if it would have been without, you know.

00:18:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's amazing. Were your parents what were they thinking now? Like they had just a few months before really been quick to poo pooh your idea of becoming an actor, and then you book this role with a massive movies are and.

00:19:00
Speaker 5: The movie star and at the time the director, I mean, exactly couldn't be a bigger project.

00:19:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, what are they thinking?

00:19:09
Speaker 6: Well, I think they were, you know, they were excited. My mom was always really careful with me because they got very excited about the whole idea of auditioning for you know, auditioning with the guy who was in Top Gun. Uh. You know, I was very excited about that. She always told me, you know a lot of little boys are going out for this. I don't want you to be discouraged if you don't get it. And then when I originally didn't get it, she was like, honey, I have some bad news. You didn't get it. And I told her, no, that's my role. I'm I'm going to do it. And she was like, oh no, this is somebody else. And then when I did actually get it, you know, I was like, I told you so. But they were I mean, I think they always handled things to the best of their ability. My mom worked a little bit in the industry on the production side. She worked for a producer, and I think that's part of the reason she didn't originally want me to go into acting. And she's seen a lot of you know, other child actors and it didn't go so well. So I think that even if things were very exciting and exhilarating, they never took their and I give them kudos, you know for this. They never took themselves out of the parent seat. They were parent first and then you know, yes, this is exciting, but they were their moment to moment present every step of the way. And I think they just it kind of blew their mind though, because it was like all of a sudden, we're flying to Arizona and you know, my dad had taken me to that audition. He's like, well, Ronda, what are you doing? Later she's like, I don't know, laundry and he's like, or we're flying to Arizona to me tom cruise and so, I you know, they were really good at keeping it pretty calm, honestly.

00:20:47
Speaker 3: Good were you in kindergarten?

00:20:50
Speaker 6: I was in my last year of preschool, gees.

00:20:55
Speaker 5: And now, had you had anybody in your family, uncle's parents, anybody been involved in the entertainment industry in any way, shape or form. I mean, did you have any kind of roadmap a little bit or no.

00:21:06
Speaker 6: Just just my mom briefly?

00:21:08
Speaker 5: You know, well, no, I heard that, but I mean it was other than that small that was it. So there was no, Yeah, you didn't for general, you know, have an uncle or generation. It was just your mom for the little bit of time. And then you you were kind of the start you and your mom.

00:21:22
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then my sister actually went on to she found more success in voiceovers and actually bought her first car that way. You know. So, but there wasn't really a roadmap, and you know, that's that's a huge thing I give props to because my mom was with me mostly. I give her huge props for that. She she really figured it out and learned it as she'd go as she went and talked to parents that she really you know, respected, who had, you know, kind of the same outlook on parenting a child. Actor.

00:21:52
Speaker 3: Did you ever meet or know Macaulay Culkin or Jonathan Taylor Thomas, who are probably the only two people who really know what it feels like to be in your shoes?

00:22:01
Speaker 6: You know, it's funny and uh, in my adult life, I met Micaulay Culkin because of Brenda's song who I did like Mike with Yes, So you know, I've hung out with them a couple of times. And he's an incredible guy. And it was first time we met. We chopped it up for a long time about it, and he's he's an incredible person. I'm a really big fan of him as a human being.

00:22:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's awesome. I mean truly, there's the three of you are probably the only three that level that level.

00:22:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I don't know, because it's really interesting because it's like I live, I live the like I lived this life. I don't know what it looks like. And I'm sure you guys all feel this, right, you lived your experience. You don't know what that means to people an outside, right, So for me, it's like, I you know, it's like, you don't know, like doing this podcast, I'm sure it's been mind blowing to see just the support you've had, right, even if you knew you knew you were on a huge you know show, right, but it's just mind blowing to see that. And I think that never's lost on me because whenever I do get down about things here and there, because it's like, you know, we're we're chasing these creative endeavors, right, you know, and and through conventions, right, you meet some people and and maybe they're going through a rough time and you were able to make their day one percent better, ye, Right, So it's really interesting to have that. I don't know what it looks like on the outside, but you know, that's a huge compliment. So thank you.

00:23:23
Speaker 3: Yeah. I joked in your intro about how many Planet Hollywood openings you probably went to, But at like seven years old, the entire world just opened up to you. Do you have any big memories or surreal moments of that year. I know you went to the Oscars that year.

00:23:42
Speaker 6: I think actually they had me then tape, like tape my reaction to Cuba winning it in like a hotel room, so I don't think that was not the actual.

00:23:53
Speaker 5: But I remember that's wheny he flips down the like runs down the stair and slips down the thing, and yeah, yeah, that was a memorable win.

00:24:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, I let's see big memories. You know. I I got to meet a lot of my heroes at the you know, growing up, which which I'm sure you all have experienced. Like you get to the world opens up, we're at the same event as like, you know, I remember being really excited to meet Tony Hawk. Yes, but it was like I always remained a kid, and I still am in the sense that I meet people who I love their work and I'm very excited about it. But it was it's kind of hard to pick out, you know, a particular moment. I think the whole thing has been a trip up until you know, being being thirty five now and looking back on it, and I forget a lot. I live in Oklahoma now, I forget all the time. Yeah, that like I did anything, you know, so just like going to my mailbox, you know. But it's it's it's a crazy it's a crazy experience for sure.

00:24:55
Speaker 4: You Now, you were so young when you started.

00:24:58
Speaker 5: We always talk about kind of in our experience we were in school and then booked something big and then worked and then went back to school. But you were booking stuff, I mean pre k, yes, But before you even really started school, did you have an opportunity to have any sort of regular elementary school or middle school kind of life or were you basically set schooled until you were older.

00:25:19
Speaker 6: I went back and forth to public school. I went to White Oak Elementary and Lindarow Middle School and Agra High School. And my parents were really adamant about that. So they you know, corresponded with the schools and made sure I got all the material and that I was doing it and doing doing a good job. And I had I to this day, my closest friends are from from you know, middle and high school. For sure, So, I mean it was I was always balancing that. Sometimes it was more consistent than other things. But if you look at like how movies come out, right, sometimes I did have a break right, so I did, like like Mike and Stuart Little Tour far apart, but Stuart Little too due to like the animation, it takes a while, right, Like when I did the first two were little, it took forever to come out, and I was like, I told all my friends I did this thing, and they're like, yeah, okay, it was like never coming out. But you know, it was crazy traveling the world. Like one of my favorite experiences was while balancing school, you know, traveling in Europe and doing promotion for like Mike, and it was just me and little Bawow and my mom and his mom and my sister and that, and we were like playing basketball everywhere, like every you would be in Germany and they're like set up a hoop for us to be on like a live TV show, and like that was some of the best. Those were some of the best experiences of my life. I just I had a blast. And so it's like balancing that it is weird to go and be treated definitely one way and then go back to public school and it's completely different. But I think that, you know, it's really ultimately very important. I played in youth league sports. I did you know. I was thinking about this recently. I did. I did baseball and basketball, and I remember one year I did baseball and because I was about to shoot Stuart Little, they didn't want me to play baseball in case I got hurt. Were a little worried about it. From my memory, so basically the result was like we made it. I think it was too little. We made a deal with one production. We're like, I'm gonna play baseball, but I have to wear this like face.

00:27:18
Speaker 4: Mask and uh, don't bring the money maker.

00:27:21
Speaker 6: It was so embarrassing, and I wore this face mask and I would get picked on, not by the kids, by the parents of opposing teams.

00:27:31
Speaker 4: Come on, and.

00:27:32
Speaker 6: I would get picked on by coaches of opposing teams. And I was pretty confident in myself in some ways. And I remember I was telling my girlfriend this. That's why I remember this last weekend. There was a coach who was who was making fun of me, and he was like yelling across like what do you have cancer? Kid?

00:27:51
Speaker 4: Like horrible, right, Oh my god.

00:27:53
Speaker 6: And so I went and I when when the inning was over, I went into their dugout and I and I went right up to him and I'm like, what's your problem?

00:28:02
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

00:28:03
Speaker 6: And then he didn't know what to do. He's like, and I was like, you know, I'm doing this. This is why I have to do this right now, because I work, I have a job. And I let him know and that you know, it was crazy.

00:28:16
Speaker 3: I forgot it for you.

00:28:17
Speaker 4: Oh man.

00:28:18
Speaker 6: Yeah, Oh the kids were fine, the parents were awful.

00:28:23
Speaker 5: That was that normally your experience, because we've talked to a lot of people that have had trouble in some of us as well, had trouble in school when you're an actor, I mean kind of. We've said basically, unfortunately, when you're a kid, even if it's a good thing, anything that makes you different is bad. So did you have any trouble with with fellow classmates or was it really just the parents, which is awful?

00:28:44
Speaker 4: My god.

00:28:45
Speaker 6: Yeah, say, the parents at like the actual school I was at, were great. Like the sports sports teams, the sports parents on my team were great. It was weird about the opposing parents, but yeah, yeah, definitely. It was pretty awful. Elementary school was was line, middle school was like not good, and high school is fine. I you know, found kind of my group at people. I played water polo in high school. In middle school, I think it's just a terrible age, you know, like people is just not nice to each other. But it was pretty brutal, Like I didn't want to go to school every day. You know, I was like, what am I gonna get made fun of for today? And there was like kind of a crowd around me when I first if I remember correctly, you know, when I first went to middle school, it was different schools feeding in and you know, it was people were just really curious and it was the point I remember the principals like we're gonna put you at a separate table for lunch because it was just a lot and I was like no, please.

00:29:39
Speaker 4: Don't, yeah, please don't put.

00:29:42
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they're gonna put me, you know, with the kid it was allergic to peanuts. I was like, you know, I was like, don't please, don't put me at the peanut free table. You know, I think they'll make it worse. And it did die down, but it was yeah, for a while, like, I'm not gonna lie, it was. It was awful, but U you know, I'm over it now at thirty five, Yeah, exactly. Thirty four was a year ago.

00:30:06
Speaker 3: No, yesterday, I'm feeling good, but.

00:30:10
Speaker 6: It was you know, I ended up beingcoming friends with a lot of these people who didn't who you know, didn't like me or whatever. But you know, it's it's, you know, you never know what people are going through. And I think that a lot of bullies, you know, aren't terrible people. They just have whatever is going on. But I remember just like getting anxiety every day before going to school and be like, oh God, what's going to happen today? Yeah, but you know, my parents wanted me to like tough it out, Like you can change schools, it might be the same thing. Like, you know, yeah, I toughed it out, and I was dealing with my own issues. Well I know you were talking about on a part podcast with anxiety, right, Yeah, sure, I had my first panic attacks and I was having panic attacks like every day. I'm not even to do with the school elements just whatever.

00:30:53
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:30:53
Speaker 6: I don't think it's because I was an actor. I think I just maybe was a person who was going to have panic attacks.

00:30:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it.

00:31:01
Speaker 5: There's you know, genetics and just chemicals and every other thing.

00:31:04
Speaker 4: So yeah, you never know.

00:31:06
Speaker 6: Yeah. So I mean it was just like I had that private battle in my head, right, and then I had, uh kids who weren't so nice, and then high school ended up being great.

00:31:16
Speaker 5: Though, you know, but I mean growing up, growing up out here in California, there had to have been other actors in the school.

00:31:22
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, you know, and they weren't in Jerry maguire.

00:31:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, commercial. Yeah, then it's not gonna be an Yeah, it's not gonna matter.

00:31:34
Speaker 6: It's true. Yeah, there was what was that Disney show she was on? There was Haley kyoko Oku. Yeah, yeah, she's wonderful. She were in the same grade. We played, We would jam, we played instruments together. I played drums. She's really talented. She went onto huge things, right, But at that time, like, yeah, people's parents worked in the industry. But it's just like, you know, I wasn't uh, I wasn't very cool. So I think there was element to it.

00:32:01
Speaker 3: I mean, everything you say about yourself sounds really cool. You played basketball, you played basically you played water, you played the drums, Like what was not cool about you? Dude?

00:32:11
Speaker 6: Probably being neurotic and worrying about this. But but you know, it's like we all adjust and improve. You know, it's like you look back on it, it's easily, you know, you can easily be like, yeah, kids are mean or whatever. But you know, I'm you know, I definitely I definitely talked back when people were mean to me. And you know, I think that you just it's it's interesting. I used to look at it and be like, you know, for for a while, but you know, it's like you grow up and you realize, like a lot of these people just had their own own stuff going on as as well.

00:32:44
Speaker 3: You know, thanks to like Mike. There are so many great pictures of you on the internet in a jersey, and you mentioned that you played basketball. I imagine there are a lot of current NBA players who grew up on like Mike. Do is it is that one of the movies that comes up today more than any other for you? Like, I bet you're big with NBA players.

00:33:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I met a lot of players who who really liked like Mike, and just a lot of athletes in general, and you know that's really special for me, Like Mike was kind of a weird thing. How it all happened was what. You know. My mom really encouraged me to read a lot and to you know, try to even produce at a young age. So I optioned a book when I was I think like tent for uh to try to make into a movie. Okay, and UH. Some a production company got the rights before before me, and they were going to make it. And I tried to position myself to get that role, and they said you're too young now. They ran into some financing issues. It got pushed back a couple of years. I was the right age, uh, And they had a director named John Schultz, and I kept pursuing it and then I had a meeting with him about this movie. He said, you're still a little young, but I am doing this movie like Mike, and I will write you your part. It's a small part, I'll write it to be bigger. I want to do this movie with you so we can get you know, a good working relationship, and I'll go do that other movie with you in a year. And we did both. Wow, But it was the other one when Zachary Bieber came to town.

00:34:22
Speaker 4: Okay, uh went?

00:34:24
Speaker 6: It went to Tripeca and had like a limited release and it was a really cool movie. It was me Eric Stultz. Jesse Plemmons played yet another bully in it, did a lot of bullying growing like he was in like Mike, he was a bully, he was a Cody Linley was in it. And it was a really special film. It was kind of like a stand by me me. It's kind of What's Heat and Gilbert Grape type of feel. I'm not saying it was that good. Yeah, he was pretty good. You know. I'm pretty proud of that one.

00:34:57
Speaker 3: What was a young Jesse Plemmons, Like.

00:35:00
Speaker 6: He's a wonderful person. Yeah, I haven't talked to him a little while, but he's a wonderful person who comes from a wonderful family. And even as he you know, started to really gain a lot of success, he didn't change. He's the same dude, and he's a incredible guy.

00:35:17
Speaker 3: He always love those stories. Speaking of you know, having not spoken to somebody in a while, you have gone viral a couple of times for the story that Tom Cruise actually kept in touch with you for many years after Jerry maguire and maybe even more shocking, he also kept in touch with the first little boy who had the role that he worked with for two weeks. What do you think makes Tom Cruise such a dynamic, special personality possibly the last true movie star yep, last one.

00:36:04
Speaker 6: You know, it's it's his energy. I've never felt before where it's just it's his presence. It's it's this drive in this kindness and understanding. And I I, you know, I always I'm always gonna look up to that guy, you know, and he has been incredible to me. And you know, when I reached out when I wanted some advice, you know, I think I cold called, like what is the United artist at the time or something, you know, when he was involved there, it was it was it was funny. And he ended up getting back in touch with me, and they emailed me, They're like, when can you meet with Tom? And I was like, wow, really, And I went to his house and in my twenties and I met with him and he gave me advice. Oh, and you know, all his advice was about about hard work and being kind to others and you know, showing up early and staying late. And I think it's I think it's the work ethic. I think it's just the drive to always bring the best product to the audience. You know, he's not a person who underestimates an audience. He respects his audience, respects the people who watch his movies, and so he's going to put his life on the line several times to do that.

00:37:14
Speaker 4: He's so entertaining. He's so entertaining, it's amazing. Did you ever get a cake? Did you get a Tom Cruise cake?

00:37:20
Speaker 6: I did not get a cake.

00:37:29
Speaker 3: Of a Tom Cruise cake.

00:37:31
Speaker 6: Yeah, but but yeah, you know it's people ask about him all the time. We haven't talked in a little bit, but whenever I have reached out, he has responded, you know, and a great response time on that guy. He responds. But he's been you know, he's been really supportive. You know. I I reached out when they were casting Top Gun Maverick and I reached out. You know, casting was just I'm sure overwhelmed with submissions and my manager and agent could get me in there. And so I emailed him and I said, hey, like, I don't know if you think I'm right for this, but if you think I'm right, I'd love to like audition for it, and I had an audition for it. He got me an audition and so auditioned for you know, it's like dummy sides. You don't know what's going on, right Audi a few different roles under like code names, and you know it didn't go my way, but it it because it wasn't meant to happen. But yeah, it just really to me the fact that he gave me that opportunity and the opportunities he'd given me just just to do Jerry Maguire, I mean, he didn't have to and he did.

00:38:36
Speaker 2: Man, it sounds like, you know, I mean, having known you for years now and like seeing how hard you work at being an actor, I'm really curious about beyond the work, like how your relationship to acting has changed because you only went to that one acting class or whatever. It sounds like, did you go back to classes later or were you already Because when you have that kind of stardom leap, it gets hard to like take the craft serious because there's just the jobs come or they don't, but you don't, you know, So how is your what is your relationship and journey been like in terms of the craft of acting itself.

00:39:10
Speaker 6: I love it more than I've ever loved it in my life at this point, right now, as we're really I just did a movie we wrapped last month, and I got to you know, I EP did as well the executive. I executive produced it, and it was with Matt Walsh and Geneva car and it was The Three Hand or pretty much the whole movie, and it's all dialogue. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I didn't go to acting class. I didn't work for a number of years. So every time I work now, I get really emotional about it. I love I love doing this. And I took class at Playhouse West they have a Meisner program for years. And then I played the younger version of this very talented actor bro probably the most talented actor I know, Joshua with Baton. I played the younger version of him in a play and Lost Girls John Polono, and in a movie for the Love of Money, and I started learning from him as well, Holligagne at a Playhouse West especially, and I always took class very seriously. When I decided not to go to college, I decided to take double the amount that you're supposed to take a playhouse West because I love this and even at the end of the day, I still I still can never be satisfied. I don't think I work hard enough. You know.

00:40:26
Speaker 4: It sounds like Tom Cruise.

00:40:28
Speaker 6: Well, when that's your example growing up, I'm going to get you know, but but I love it, and I I you have to just keep going, you know, you have to keep swimming. There was five years where I didn't work and people would always go, oh, well, you went to high school and you were normal. Yeah, but I also did audition for stuff and I didn't get it. And that's cool. Yeah, funny things. I've said that before, and they're like the clip part of the quote or whatever and make it seem like I'm sad that, like, yeah, my career is and where it needs to be. I that's fine. It gives you something to strive for when your career isn't where you you want it to be, that's beautiful. It gives you something to strive for. If I didn't work and my career just just ascended, and you know, it just I was at the top, who knows what type of person I'd be. But the fact that I've now I got very fortunate and I will always say that and I have you know, I do feel untalented, but I I got very fortunate with these roles. But I've had to work ten times as hard in the back end to get the roles that I do today, including producing and making projects for myself, you know, or to be able to be in and to find good projects. And that's something I don't take lightly. I work incredibly hard and it's always on my mind every single day. And I know the best is yet to come from me, which with the track record not working for a while, most people you know, would quit and and I just I don't. I don't have that. I don't have that in me, you know. I just I can't have thought about it. I just think about it a lot sometimes, but I can't. I just, you know, want to. I heard this. I'm gonna butcher the quote. But there's this guy pops up on a lot of Instagrams that Alex Hermosi, and he talks about out working yourself doubt, and I'm just always trying to outwork myself dout. He also talked about providing undeniable proof that you are who you say you are, stacking that proof over and over, so every class I went to, you know, I worked very hard, and then even in my thirties now and looking back at I would work really hard and the burn myself out, and then I didn't put myself in the right position I feel to do what I wanted to do. You can always work harder, and I think it's important that you're all in, is still a consistent pace and not trying to just do it all at once and then burn yourself out, because I think I did that. I'd work incredibly hard to get really close to a role that I wanted and maybe it didn't go my way or I tested for a pilot, and then I would just, like you know, get exhausted a little bit depressed about it. Where I think if you just stay consistent and you also live your life and live your normal life, and you allow yourself to find other streams of making income, of providing for yourself, I think that you can be all in and do that as well. Now my perspective has changed greatly.

00:43:14
Speaker 5: The attitude that you have is so it seems so healthy, and the drive that you have seems so amazing.

00:43:20
Speaker 4: How much of that is.

00:43:21
Speaker 5: Due to martial arts or is the study of martial arts also due to the attitude you already had. I don't even know if I said that right, because sometimes I meet a lot of people that maybe don't have the discipline they need. Then they find something like martial arts and it kind of focuses them more. And then there's people that are super focused and that makes them a great martial artist.

00:43:40
Speaker 4: And I'm just curious which route of that is yours.

00:43:44
Speaker 6: I can naturally be really lazy. I don't think it's like innately in me, you know, you know, I think I think martial arts changed my life. I think doing Brazilian jiu jitsu, especially, you know, you have people are beating you up and they're bigger than you. You know, I think you get humbled and you grow from that. I think also that, you know, moving away from the pain of realizing maybe I didn't capitalize on all the opportunities I could have, and being honest with myself and not sitting in it, but letting that pain be enough to propel you forward in a beautiful way and going I I I'm better than this, I can do better. So I think that drives me every day is the fact that I don't want to feel like I didn't leave it all on the field, you know, at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, when I when I can't act anymore, you know, when it you know down the line, very far down the line hopefully. Yeah, that that I just I just have to do it. You know. It's like I'm you know you some artists, right, they can paint, they get I've never been good at painting. I you know, I tried really hard at being a good drummer. Naturally, just wasn't a great drummer. But but acting is this thing that I just can't get get out of. You know, I have to do it. And you know, I got to work with writer a little bit, and uh, you know it was like that meant a lot for me what what you wrote, and your words are beautiful, and I just want to be able to be a part of telling stories that hopefully make somebody's day one percent better.

00:45:10
Speaker 3: You know, I love that. Did in those five years that you didn't work, did you have a job outside of the entertainment industry.

00:45:19
Speaker 6: I was in high school at that time.

00:45:20
Speaker 3: Okay, I was playing water.

00:45:24
Speaker 6: I was playing club club water polo. You know, I found other ways to to to make income, thankfully, but you know, I teach and now i'm producing. I do a number of other things, become pretty entrepreneurial because that is also creative, right, yes, exactly. And I think you have to go through I think you have to go through tough times, right, and uh, I've been through incredibly tough times, and I think that's what made me focus even more than martial arts. But I don't think I would have been able to go through those tough times if I hadn't faced adversity from other human beings, you know, trying to choke me and ju ju.

00:46:15
Speaker 3: Do you think in general, how what's your opinion on putting kids in the entertainment industry. Do you have a thought about whether or not it's a good place for kids or not.

00:46:25
Speaker 6: I would say majority of the time it's the parents.

00:46:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know.

00:46:29
Speaker 6: And so I think it's like depending on the parent, I can't give an overall, like you know, this is yes or no. I think if you have parents that it's more important for them to be a parent than to have their kid be a movie star. Yes, they should let their kid pursue it. Yeah, if you have parents that it's more important for them to live out their dreams or to get some sort of satisfaction from their kid, you know, making money or making for themselves, and they absolutely shouldn't do it. And I think you're always going to have both groups of people, like you have a lot and you know, it's like you you all been through this. We we've met people where the parents were really great and that they turned out greaty the kids, even if they didn't pursue acting at the end. But there's a lot of you know, I think it really comes down to the parents, and I think you have to be honest with yourself why you're doing it. My parents once again, they would ask me after I did a role, you're still happy. You don't need to do it. You know, we turned down a series regular before for me to play Little League baseball. You know, if your parents are in that mindset that it's that you know, in our protective there's a lot of grossness out there. I think that you know, it's you got to pursue what you love. But it just really depends on the parents, and I think that's the majority of the cases. You know.

00:47:49
Speaker 4: I'm curious why Oklahoma you know, I was.

00:47:52
Speaker 6: Kind of driving around. I just kind of I just kind of stopped here and I didn't leave.

00:47:56
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't great.

00:48:00
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:48:00
Speaker 6: I went on like a like a journey. I grew my hair out to hear. I got rid of all my stuff I owned except for what could fit in my geep Wrangler, and I just drove him around and I stopped a few different places. I came to Oklahoma to ae of my friends were out here from high school. And I love the people, you know, I love the filmmaking community out here. It just made a lot of sense now Now I have a wonderful girlfriend and fell in love out here, and my daily life is amazing. And I noticed that especially with my anxiety, it's gone down an incredible amount just environment wise. That love. I love the people, and I think there's a huge uh there's been. They've been doing a lot of amazing work out here, but there's an even bigger future for for filmmaking out here.

00:48:47
Speaker 3: You mentioned the movie you recently did, Williston, a psychological thriller that you are going to be in with Matt Walsh and Geneva Carr. Are you excited to be in what appears to be a rather scary, serious movie.

00:49:02
Speaker 6: Yeah. I was really scared to do it. Uh. You know. I worked with the director briefly and he, uh, it was pretty crazy. He he's a playwright first and foremost, and he he did his debut movie. I did a small part in it. And he hit me up and he's like, I have the script, uh, you know, adapted from a play. I did, what do you think about it? And it was it was really incredible. And then what I found out was he adapted it just so he could tell me he adapted it because he thought I was so right for it. And he's amazing Adam Adam Seidel, amazing guy. And and we put it together. I work for a company called Buffalo eight, and you know, we and I know a local team out here, uh of producers, and we put it together and we made it happen. It was. It was really scary. It's it's you know, pretty much three people the whole time, like a Glengarry Glenn Ross type of feel tape. Uh. And it was it was so hard. It was so hard. I'm kind of a little depressed it's over because it was so fun. But we rehearsed and we rehearsed it like a play and we shot. We shot seventeen pages one day.

00:50:08
Speaker 1: Whoa, it's like a Hallmark movie.

00:50:11
Speaker 6: Yeah. And if we shot it, I mean we shot a lot of it, like like long takes, and it was the most intimidating thing. And when those two artists are your steam partners and they're bringing every day and they're amazing, you have no choice but to get better, you know. So yeah, I mean it's it's always like you don't know what the outcome is going to be. Are people gonna like it, you know? Or they are you gonna trash me? You know? But it's it was an incredible experience, and that's what I focus on. I I you know, I've done some really cool work, you know, as a kid in the middle, I did some cool stuff. But I also did a lot of stuff that that I did to do something and it wasn't really good. I've never seen it the same pieces and that was enough for me. And I hit a wall with that. And I had a really emotion reaction to hitting that wall. And I turned down a lot because you'll get those still, those offers here and there for stuff that's you know, if it's a straight offer to me at this point. It's generally not the greatest material. Just kind of how it is right now, be very clinical about it, not mad at it. So the best stuff I auditioned for anyway, and that's hard, you know, it's some you don't so my my, you know, my my goal was to just do stuff that I thought had to chance it it being really good, because it just just made me really sad because I worked really hard in acting class and doing theater and to just do stuff where you feel like you show up and you know, it's just it's not. It's just kind of that on arrival.

00:51:43
Speaker 5: You know, right right, what's your favorite project that you've done so far in your entire career?

00:51:49
Speaker 6: Well, since it's most recent, Wilson, I'll tell you that that's up there. I did a movie in twenty twenty five that I can't talk about.

00:51:55
Speaker 1: It a.

00:51:56
Speaker 6: Small role in something you know, pretty cool, and that was pretty amazing, you know, and it's like the best ones. You know, you have so much anxiety before doing it and then you get there and a few words come out of your mouth and it's the best experience in your life. But let's go with Williston right now. There was a play I did in twenty thirteen called Lost Girls at Rogue Machine Theater in la and that was one of the best experiences of my life because I'd never done a run of a play that had been that long and it got The coolest thing from my career is it got published. So like those little Sam French playbooks, I'm in one of those. Yeah, and that's like the only thing I think I have from my career left, besides like you know, some old headshots and stuff. You know, there was a there was a collector and he really liked a lot of work I did. He bought all my stuff during COVID, So I don't I don't like having it, you know, I was there. I don't need it, and I'm really blessed for the past I've had and really happy about it. But you know, eyes in the present and eyes also to the future about what I'm going to do to you know, really grow, and not obsessing over outcome, but obsessing at you know, over like the daily tasks I have to do to get there. And it's not like a fame goal. Yeah, it's it's a goal to do stuff. I really love that hopefully resonates with people and like I said, makes your day one percent better, makes them think, or making things that don't underestimate the audience, you know. You know, I think we often throw stuff at them and they're like, ah, they'll take it. They're they're an audience, you know. And the fact is people want to see really good movies. We just have to give them that opportunity to go do that, whether it is streaming or hopefully bringing you know, back theaters in a major way, which you know, I'm not going to solve, but it can make some Yeah.

00:53:47
Speaker 3: Finally, if you could time travel onto the set of Jerry Maguire before its release and you could give young Jonathan Lipnikki any piece of advice, what piece of advice would you of your young self?

00:54:04
Speaker 6: That's a good question. Yeah, I would say that, you know, live in the moment and just know that whatever people say and whatever's out there and whatever attention you get, both positive and negative, it doesn't matter. It matters your own belief in yourself and being a good person, and continue to try to be the best person you can be and not letting that outside noise affect you negatively. I think that would be it because for me, it's like I may have not had any you know, public struggles, and people go well adjusted in this and that or like, you know, people tell me, oh, you're like, you know, you grew up normal. To the fact is everybody has their struggles, and I never can put judgment on the struggles I see other young actors go through, and and I want everybody to be able to do what they love and not come out on it, you know, in a really bad way. But I would tell myself it would have saved me a lot of if I just maybe have that encouragement to you know, it's one encouragement from your parents, but to just if I knew that within myself really intimately that that it didn't matter what other people thought about me, I think I wouldn't save myself a lot of pain.

00:55:15
Speaker 3: So smart. Thank you so much for being here with us, Jonathan. It was really good to talk to you. Always always see.

00:55:25
Speaker 4: Bye bye writer.

00:55:27
Speaker 3: Did you guys work together on your podcast?

00:55:29
Speaker 6: No?

00:55:30
Speaker 2: He he was in my play for a second. He ended up getting another job and had to drop out, so we only got one rehearsal together. Oh wow, but he yeah, he auditioned for my play and we cast him in the starring role. And then so yeah, it's trying to think how many. I just remember one like four hour rehearsal, but we might have also done a reading together, table read. But you know, with a play, it's like it happens all the time with like multiple people that kept dropping out because it's like, you know, no one's making money off the play, so if they get a real job, job like a TV show or whatever. And I think he booked a reoccurring on something, so he had to bow up. But we had a great rehearsal together, and you know, it was just he really liked the play and it was a great role for him and it didn't work out, but it was fun to work with him.

00:56:18
Speaker 1: And then yeah, I mean he's part of that.

00:56:20
Speaker 2: Like the play that he referenced, Lost Girls, is by this amazing playwright, screenwriter, actor named John Polano and part of the whole Rogue Machine theater. It's like pretty much the best theater company in LA They've just they're so great everything I've ever seen there, and John's an amazing playwright.

00:56:36
Speaker 1: So yeah, he was part of that whole crowd.

00:56:38
Speaker 2: And you know a great actor and it was really too bad it didn't work out. But we've we've we've stayed in touch. And then I ran into him at south By Southwest last year and got the update on the whole Oklahoma thing, which is so cool, Like, I just love that he did.

00:56:51
Speaker 4: That sounds like something you would have done.

00:56:53
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally like if I didn't have family.

00:56:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, my god, Yeah.

00:56:56
Speaker 2: Just pick a city and get the heck out, especially in the age of like, you know, zoom meetings.

00:57:02
Speaker 1: You know, the fact that you don't like I would always say, like.

00:57:05
Speaker 2: Well, we have to be in la I mean, even even when I stopped acting, the idea of just meetings like you just want to know people and keeping you But nowadays every meeting is online and say there's like a social factor, but it's it's you know, I don't know, it's yeah, it's interesting.

00:57:19
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's just such a solid guy.

00:57:21
Speaker 2: He's always been and it's interesting even like, you know, having hung out with him when we did the play was five years ago, six years, five years ago. He's he's gotten more mature in the last five years. You know, like even just talking to him now, I'm like, wow, you're you've gotten stronger and like because he was he's always been like the most committed, hard working and earnest guy. He's like a very earnest person. But he's gotten more confident in the last five years. And that's really cool to see. I'm like, and I'm probably because of moving to Oklahoma.

00:57:50
Speaker 4: I bet you then martial arts, I'm telling you.

00:57:53
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy has been ripped since he was like fifteen, I.

00:57:56
Speaker 2: Remember so, but no, I mean, I just feel like he he's more comfortable in his own skin right now, Like just talking to him now, I'm like, dude, you've grown, like you know, because I don't know, like it's it's I'm so glad that he has taken ownership of his like his his career in the sense that he's going to enjoy the process, you know what I mean. Like he's not he's not looking for like the starring role in a huge movie.

00:58:22
Speaker 1: All the time.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm just going to take what I can get and what I like to do and do it and like that's so healthy, you know, And I feel like, yeah, like I know, in my twenties, like all I wanted was to keep having the kind of success I had had on Boy Meet's World and Kevin Fever and like, why isn't this happening? And I'm sure he went through a version of that because he went from the peak of like movie stardom to you know, you're just another another guy auditioning and like that shouldn't be a downfall, but it feels like a downfall because just auditioning is great, like just being a working actor is a phenomenal job if you can pull it off and if you can do it, but if you have the early success, it feels like a downngrad And that personal feeling of downgrading is really hard to get over. And it's not so much what the public thinks of you, because you can get over that quicker.

00:59:07
Speaker 1: It's what the industry thinks of you.

00:59:09
Speaker 2: It's when you go to an audition or when you meet with producers and they don't take you seriously because they see you as like, well, you didn't succeed, you didn't continue your career the same way, so you must there must be something wrong with you, or here must not be talented. And the truth is, no one knows what talent is. It's very hard to know what makes a good actor a bad actor.

00:59:27
Speaker 1: Most of the time it's good for a role or bad for a role.

00:59:29
Speaker 2: Like, if you're showing up and you're committed to your craft, you'll get a job eventually. You can stick with it, you know. But yeah, he's man, He's just he's a really good guy. I wish him all the best in terms of, like, you know, kind of finding that happiness that he's found.

00:59:45
Speaker 3: Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com and we've got merch.

00:59:56
Speaker 4: All of our merch weighs eight pounds.

00:59:59
Speaker 3: Pod Meets Worldshow dot com will send us out.

01:00:03
Speaker 4: We love you all, pod dismissed.

01:00:06
Speaker 5: Podmets World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfordell and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show or email us at Podmetsworldshow at gmail dot com.