Top tips for physics outreach from a prize winner, making graphene more sustainable

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Weekly

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podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston.

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Coming up in this episode,

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I explore

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sustainability

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issues

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surrounding the wonder material,

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Graphene.

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And that's with the material scientist and engineer,

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Burju

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Saner Okan.

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She is principal investigator

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at Sabanju

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University's

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Sustainable

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Advanced

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Materials

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Research Group in Istanbul.

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And she's also involved in the commercial production

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of Graphene.

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But first,

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recently I had the opportunity

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to revisit my days as a student

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at Canada's

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University of Guelph.

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I was on campus to record 2 podcast

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interviews.

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1 was with the food scientist and ice

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cream expert,

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Douglas Gough, who talked about the myriad physics

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involved in making frozen desserts.

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That conversation will appear in a special

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festive December podcast,

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so stay tuned for that.

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I also caught up with the Guelph medical

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physicist

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Joanne

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O'Meara,

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who invited me to sit in on an

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electricity

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and magnetism

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lecture that she was giving.

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And I have to say I was very

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proud of myself

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when I managed to solve a problem that

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she put to the class.

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And that was nearly 40 years to the

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day that I first showed up at Guelph

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as an undergraduate.

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Later that day, Joanne received a King Charles

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the 3rd

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Coronation

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Medal

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for her outstanding

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achievements

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and community contributions,

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especially

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in physics education

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and science outreach.

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After her lecture, I chatted with Joanne about

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her passion for science communication.

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Here is that conversation.

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Hi, Joanne. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, Amritious.

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Great to see you.

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So, Joanne, why do you think it's important

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for academic physicists to do outreach?

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I think it's important because I think in

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particular with physics, there's a little bit of

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an image problem in some ways. I think

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a lot of people have a tendency to

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think that physics is

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very esoteric,

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very,

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theoretical,

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you know, black holes and cosmology.

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And I think people don't really get a

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sense of how physics plays a role in

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so many things that they experience in their

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everyday life.

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And can can you give us an idea

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of some of the,

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outreach activities that you've taken part in throughout

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your career? Because I think you've done a

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lot, haven't you? I have done a lot.

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It's it's I find it a lot of

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fun. So, it's not a chore for me.

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Yeah. It started when I was an undergrad,

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actually, at McMaster.

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I was part of the physics club,

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and, there were a number of us who

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would take a bunch of our fun physics

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demos out to local elementary schools and do

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demonstration shows for for schools.

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So it started way back then. As a

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grad student, I was a a tour guide

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at the reactor on campus at McMaster. So

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that was a great training ground for science

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communication because,

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you never knew what group you were gonna

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have going on the tour. I gave tours

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to boy scout groups, and I gave tours

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to,

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delegations from the International Atomic Energy Agency. I

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bet you got some great questions from the

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boy scout. It seems like some groups like

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that. Yeah. You got great questions from both

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of them, and it was a great way

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to to learn how to tailor kind of

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a script that you were going on for

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different audiences because, obviously, you're not gonna give

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the same tour to the IAEA as you

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do to the Boy Scout group. So that

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was great. Since I've been here at Guelph,

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we've done lots of different things,

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and a lot of them are, you know,

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school visits.

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I was teaching a science communication course to

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our 3rd years,

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where they had a budget, and they got

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to design and build sort of science center

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type activities

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for elementary schools. And then we took them

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to the local museum, and we had school

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kids come through on field trips.

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The there's a group here, Let's Talk Science,

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that organizes an annual Harry Potter day,

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in November. It's actually coming up. And a

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couple of years ago, I was a guest

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lecturer at Hogwarts School For Witchcraft and Wizardry

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where I was the professor of aeronautical arts,

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and I managed to,

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in costume, give a presentation on, muggle technology,

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like air flight and helicopters and you know?

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So that was a lot of fun.

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Yeah. We also run a monthly,

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event at a local pub here, which is

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for more for adults,

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although anyone's welcome.

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And each month is a different theme. So

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September was evolution. We had a couple of

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speakers from integrative biology,

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and they talk for about 20 minutes each.

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There's great question and answer, and then we

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play a little trivia game.

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And it's just a really casual

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environment for people to learn about science,

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in a very informal way and ask great

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questions of of experts in the field.

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It's interesting you should mention scouts because I'm

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a scout leader back in Bristol. Yeah. And

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once,

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we actually took the scouts up to the

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University of Bristol, and we visited a lab

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Okay. Where they specialize in ultrasound.

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Oh, nice. They do things like,

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levitate little balls using ultrasound

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and, things like that. And, you know, that

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I mean, that was an amazing experience both

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as a scout leader and as a as

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a physicist.

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I mean, that was just a one off.

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You know, we don't often get invitations from

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universities. I had a contact Right. At the

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university. Right.

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Is is that something that happens at Guelph?

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Is, you know, is the university welcoming to

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to outside groups? Do can you can people

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book a tour in a lab? Or is

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that a difficult thing to do? Yeah. I

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mean, it is a little bit tricky. We

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try to be. And I think,

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we have specific kind of days where we

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we open up to the community.

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There's a couple of events in the fall.

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They're a little bit more targeted to,

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you know, recruiting high school senior high school

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students to consider coming here for undergraduate.

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But there's also an event in March called

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College Royal, which you probably remember That's right.

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Which is a huge university wide open house,

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and brings thousands of people to campus. And

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it's a really great way to integrate

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the community into the university. It's all I'm

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sure it's a problem or challenge in every

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kind of university town. There's kind of the

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the, you know, the 2

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the 2,

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cultures. And

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and it's something I really strived hard

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to do over the last however many years

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is to not so much open the doors

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here and have people come here, but more

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just get out into the community and take,

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you know, the science to people in their

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neighborhoods.

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There's a lot of people who see who

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see universities as, you know, kind of these

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elite,

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you know, ivory tower type places, and they're

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intimidating. And and, and so trying to bring

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the science to them where they're more comfortable,

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I think is is a good activity to

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be part of. Yeah. As was the Science

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in the Pub is a a classic example.

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Science in the Pub is great. I mean,

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we've been running it for a couple of

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years now.

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And every month, we have, there's kinda little

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side room to the main pub, and it

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holds about 45 people. And every month, it's

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full.

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We've had topics like evolution. Last March, we

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had,

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math professor come

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and,

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talk about measuring pie for pie day,

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with spaghetti noodles. And we did this activity,

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and we had 45 adults in a pub

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with uncooked spaghetti noodles and pieces of paper

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measuring pie. And then the math professor it

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was so much fun. And then the math

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professor, Mihanika,

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explained

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how it was that these squares and straight

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things

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ended up with a pretty decent approximation of

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pi.

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And so, yeah, we've had a wide range

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of topics. Last month was, women's health, specifically

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looking at how women

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are differently impacted by cardiovascular

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disease, strokes, and heart attacks,

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attacks. And that was also a sold out

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event.

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And then, you know, obviously, space. Every time

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we do a space one, totally sold out.

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But, yeah, it's been a lot of fun.

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We also recently the department of physics and

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Royal City Science, which is the group I

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run,

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We coown a new mobile planetarium,

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which we got,

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from a donation from a retired faculty member

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who passed away a couple of years ago.

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You probably knew him, Jim Stevens. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. I remember Jim. He donated some money

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in his estate,

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for outreach initiatives, and we decided that

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Jim was a larger than life character. We

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wanted to do something really meaningful with this

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money. So we got a matching grant from

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the Canadian Space Agency

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to buy a mobile planetarium, and we can

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take it to schools. We took it down

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to a fall fair.

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We were at,

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the Lumen Festival in Waterloo a couple of

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weekends ago,

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and we can ho host about 40 to

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50 people in the dome at a time,

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and we can set it up and and

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run,

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planetarium shows kind of all over the place.

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So That sounds great. Yeah. When you're when

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you're doing activities

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that involve adults, do you find that you're

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preaching to the converted in the sense that

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a lot of the people,

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maybe they they've done science at university,

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and and they're trying to keep up their

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interest?

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Or or do you get do do you

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get people who come in who, you know,

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know very little about science and are very

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00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:11,899
keen to learn? It's it's really all over

276
00:10:11,899 --> 00:10:12,940
the place, and,

277
00:10:13,339 --> 00:10:15,899
I think that's the fun part of of

278
00:10:15,899 --> 00:10:18,299
hosting events like Science on Tap, for example,

279
00:10:18,299 --> 00:10:20,000
which is generally adults.

280
00:10:20,585 --> 00:10:22,184
We always start by kind of, you know,

281
00:10:22,184 --> 00:10:24,184
asking who's here for the first time, who's

282
00:10:24,184 --> 00:10:27,245
come before. And it's typically about 5050.

283
00:10:28,024 --> 00:10:31,085
We definitely have some some serious science enthusiasts

284
00:10:31,305 --> 00:10:34,024
who have a science background and love, you

285
00:10:34,024 --> 00:10:35,460
know, the monthly kind of

286
00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:38,500
refresh of a different field. But we also

287
00:10:38,500 --> 00:10:40,580
have lots of people who come like, the

288
00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:42,679
the event for women's health last,

289
00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:45,720
month, we had a number of people there

290
00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:48,519
who definitely don't have a science background,

291
00:10:49,815 --> 00:10:52,235
definitely don't necessarily seek out science

292
00:10:52,615 --> 00:10:53,115
events.

293
00:10:53,654 --> 00:10:56,074
But as women in their fifties,

294
00:10:56,855 --> 00:10:57,674
or forties,

295
00:10:58,774 --> 00:11:01,334
and maybe have a family history, they were

296
00:11:01,334 --> 00:11:04,074
really interested to learn about this topic.

297
00:11:04,379 --> 00:11:06,879
And it's it's a a very non intimidating

298
00:11:07,019 --> 00:11:09,100
way to learn about it by coming to

299
00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:10,320
a pub with your friends,

300
00:11:11,019 --> 00:11:12,720
having a pint or, you know,

301
00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:17,279
some snacks and listening to, speakers

302
00:11:17,615 --> 00:11:20,654
give presentations and ask questions. There's a really,

303
00:11:21,054 --> 00:11:23,694
relaxed atmosphere, and the questions that we get

304
00:11:23,694 --> 00:11:25,154
asked are just amazing.

305
00:11:26,254 --> 00:11:27,934
And and, Joanne, you also do a lot

306
00:11:27,934 --> 00:11:29,315
of writing, don't you?

307
00:11:30,149 --> 00:11:32,169
Popular science writing. I do.

308
00:11:32,629 --> 00:11:33,129
And

309
00:11:33,589 --> 00:11:36,169
you've produced a series of articles called

310
00:11:36,549 --> 00:11:39,209
Wonder Why. Yeah. And and these are available

311
00:11:39,429 --> 00:11:41,750
online. And I've I mean, I can only

312
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:43,450
describe it as an eclectic

313
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:44,329
collection,

314
00:11:45,424 --> 00:11:47,904
that covers a broad range of topics. You've

315
00:11:47,904 --> 00:11:48,544
looked at,

316
00:11:49,024 --> 00:11:51,184
you know, for example, why is the color

317
00:11:51,184 --> 00:11:54,004
blue so rare in nature? Yep.

318
00:11:54,384 --> 00:11:55,105
You look at,

319
00:11:55,825 --> 00:11:59,024
the magnetic nature of some animals. You've looked

320
00:11:59,024 --> 00:12:00,980
at the physics of sports.

321
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,179
How many is it? It's it's over 20

322
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,720
articles that you Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

323
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,160
I I sort of lost count. I was

324
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,080
trying to count them, but, oh, there's another

325
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,360
page in the I try to do it

326
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,360
monthly, and it doesn't always work out that

327
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,285
way. Yeah. It's I I mean, it's it's

328
00:12:15,285 --> 00:12:16,545
a it's a really nice,

329
00:12:17,404 --> 00:12:20,065
collection. So why why do you spend,

330
00:12:21,004 --> 00:12:23,485
time and and effort on that? That's a

331
00:12:23,485 --> 00:12:26,045
good question. I I find it rewarding. I

332
00:12:26,045 --> 00:12:27,004
enjoy writing,

333
00:12:28,125 --> 00:12:28,625
and,

334
00:12:29,919 --> 00:12:32,160
I think it's again, it kinda goes back

335
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:33,779
a little bit to the the image,

336
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,960
problem of of people tend to think of

337
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,519
physics as being really hard and very mathy

338
00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:40,879
and all about,

339
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:43,620
esoteric things that they don't have any familiarity

340
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:44,340
with.

341
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,754
And I just I love those moments of,

342
00:12:48,134 --> 00:12:48,875
you know,

343
00:12:49,254 --> 00:12:51,115
seeing something around you,

344
00:12:51,735 --> 00:12:53,815
in nature and just kinda stopping and going,

345
00:12:53,815 --> 00:12:54,714
hang on a minute.

346
00:12:55,495 --> 00:12:57,335
Why why does it look like that? Or,

347
00:12:57,335 --> 00:12:59,174
you know, why does it not look like

348
00:12:59,174 --> 00:12:59,674
this?

349
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,120
And and sort of puzzling with it and

350
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,100
then trying to

351
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:05,779
explain it to myself

352
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,720
in a way that makes sense, then I

353
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,399
can pass on to other people who might

354
00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:12,740
also have wondered the same thing. Like,

355
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,925
one of the stories I wrote or part

356
00:13:15,925 --> 00:13:17,945
of articles I wrote was about,

357
00:13:18,884 --> 00:13:21,845
the spacing of ducklings swinging swimming behind a

358
00:13:21,845 --> 00:13:22,665
mother duck.

359
00:13:23,045 --> 00:13:24,184
And it's actually,

360
00:13:25,445 --> 00:13:27,144
wave interference effects.

361
00:13:27,605 --> 00:13:28,105
And

362
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:31,269
when I first saw the paper that described

363
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:33,750
this, it was like, oh my like, you've

364
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:35,209
seen a 1000000 times

365
00:13:35,669 --> 00:13:38,470
baby ducks swim swimming in single file behind

366
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:39,769
their mother or father.

367
00:13:40,709 --> 00:13:41,209
And

368
00:13:41,684 --> 00:13:43,365
I I never even stopped to say why

369
00:13:43,365 --> 00:13:45,205
are they always in single file. Why don't

370
00:13:45,205 --> 00:13:46,884
they, you know, why don't they just move

371
00:13:46,884 --> 00:13:49,384
around? Is the separation sort of fixed? Separation

372
00:13:49,445 --> 00:13:51,605
is fixed. And they and they're all sit

373
00:13:51,684 --> 00:13:53,544
they're all actually swimming on

374
00:13:53,845 --> 00:13:54,345
crests

375
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,480
of the wave pattern behind the mother's wake,

376
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:58,759
and they're getting a little bit of a

377
00:13:58,759 --> 00:14:00,759
swimming boost. And there was there was actually

378
00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:04,139
an experiment that, biologists did where,

379
00:14:04,919 --> 00:14:05,899
he trained

380
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,839
baby ducks to swim behind a decoy in

381
00:14:08,839 --> 00:14:10,975
a water tank, and he was able to

382
00:14:10,975 --> 00:14:13,054
study and measure what was he measuring? He

383
00:14:13,054 --> 00:14:14,834
was measuring the foot,

384
00:14:15,454 --> 00:14:17,454
straight it was this clear sided tank. So

385
00:14:17,454 --> 00:14:20,195
he was able to measure the foot stroke

386
00:14:20,254 --> 00:14:22,815
of the ducklings and get an estimate of

387
00:14:22,815 --> 00:14:24,995
the effort that they were putting into swimming

388
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,940
and playing around with the different

389
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,799
rates of flow in the tank. And I

390
00:14:29,799 --> 00:14:31,899
guess I just get excited when I see

391
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,220
a simple yet

392
00:14:34,679 --> 00:14:35,179
clever

393
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:38,860
experimental design or a a really

394
00:14:39,424 --> 00:14:42,384
succinct kind of theoretical explanation of something that's

395
00:14:42,384 --> 00:14:42,884
everyday.

396
00:14:43,424 --> 00:14:43,924
And,

397
00:14:44,384 --> 00:14:46,144
and I just wanna share that because I

398
00:14:46,144 --> 00:14:48,065
think it's it's amazing to me that we

399
00:14:48,065 --> 00:14:50,565
can use these math expressions to explain

400
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,600
why baby ducklings are swimming in single file

401
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,159
at these specific spacings behind their mother. Yeah.

402
00:14:56,159 --> 00:14:57,279
That's a great I mean, I have to

403
00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,360
say, I'm a bit embarrassed that we missed

404
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,440
that one on Physics World. You're right. Are

405
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:02,559
you sure you missed that one? Because I

406
00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:04,179
feel like I get a lot of inspiration

407
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,639
from Physics World. May may may maybe maybe

408
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,774
I've just forgotten. Where where else do you

409
00:15:08,774 --> 00:15:11,095
get your inspiration for you know, how how

410
00:15:11,095 --> 00:15:12,774
do you choose a topic? Is it just

411
00:15:12,774 --> 00:15:13,754
you suddenly realize,

412
00:15:14,294 --> 00:15:16,774
my gosh. This is interesting. Sometimes. Yeah. I

413
00:15:16,774 --> 00:15:19,254
mean, I think some of the examples I

414
00:15:19,254 --> 00:15:20,970
can think of that were things that I've

415
00:15:20,970 --> 00:15:23,309
I've noticed and kind of wondered about.

416
00:15:24,089 --> 00:15:24,990
One was,

417
00:15:25,769 --> 00:15:28,009
I I'm a rower, so I go to

418
00:15:28,009 --> 00:15:30,669
the the lake on a regular basis. And,

419
00:15:31,769 --> 00:15:34,089
one day after I had, you know, put

420
00:15:34,089 --> 00:15:35,529
all the gear away, I was cleaning up

421
00:15:35,529 --> 00:15:37,644
the dock, and there were all kinds of

422
00:15:37,704 --> 00:15:40,745
water gliders, water striders, the bugs that,

423
00:15:41,225 --> 00:15:42,664
are on the surface of the water. And

424
00:15:42,824 --> 00:15:45,245
Yeah. Yeah. They they scoot in really,

425
00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:49,384
interesting patterns, and they they leap vertically off

426
00:15:49,384 --> 00:15:52,019
the surface. And and I I was transfixed

427
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,540
sitting there watching them.

428
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,920
And so then I just kinda went, you

429
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,920
know, why? How are they moving around like

430
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,399
this? And turns out that they're actually rowers.

431
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:00,899
They,

432
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,415
they have their middle leg. So they have

433
00:16:03,415 --> 00:16:04,855
3 legs on each side, and the middle

434
00:16:04,855 --> 00:16:06,955
leg is actually kind of like an oar

435
00:16:07,254 --> 00:16:10,375
that they're using to effectively skull across the

436
00:16:10,375 --> 00:16:10,875
surface.

437
00:16:11,495 --> 00:16:13,575
So that was one that I was inspired

438
00:16:13,575 --> 00:16:17,139
by in in nature. Another one was my

439
00:16:17,139 --> 00:16:17,639
daughter,

440
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,659
one of my older daughters, an avid horseback

441
00:16:20,659 --> 00:16:21,779
rider. And,

442
00:16:22,259 --> 00:16:23,959
she was talking about how

443
00:16:24,259 --> 00:16:26,200
she was told by her coach that

444
00:16:26,659 --> 00:16:29,059
where you take off from to go over

445
00:16:29,059 --> 00:16:29,799
a jump,

446
00:16:30,235 --> 00:16:32,394
you need to be taking off as far

447
00:16:32,394 --> 00:16:34,235
away from the jump as the jump is

448
00:16:34,235 --> 00:16:36,394
high. That's just kinda like the rule that

449
00:16:36,394 --> 00:16:37,674
they go by. And I was like, well,

450
00:16:37,674 --> 00:16:40,955
yeah, that's projectile motion. It's it's a 45

451
00:16:40,955 --> 00:16:43,915
degree angle, and that's the that's the and

452
00:16:43,915 --> 00:16:45,134
so then, you know,

453
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,279
horse jumping is projectile motion. And that's not

454
00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:49,799
something I think you know, we think about

455
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:52,279
throwing a baseball or we think about those

456
00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:54,679
kinds of things, but horse jumping. You know?

457
00:16:54,679 --> 00:16:57,159
And so I I, you know, had a

458
00:16:57,159 --> 00:16:59,320
fun little time with my daughter taking some

459
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,845
videos and and analyzing the motion of the

460
00:17:01,845 --> 00:17:04,244
horse going over the jump. Or another one

461
00:17:04,244 --> 00:17:06,404
was my daughter going down a water slide

462
00:17:06,404 --> 00:17:08,884
off the back of a houseboat that we

463
00:17:08,884 --> 00:17:10,424
were vacationing in.

464
00:17:11,044 --> 00:17:13,365
So, yeah, it's it's things that I noticed

465
00:17:13,365 --> 00:17:14,184
that I think,

466
00:17:14,619 --> 00:17:16,480
you know, a lot of people wouldn't necessarily

467
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:19,579
see all of the beautiful physics and math

468
00:17:19,579 --> 00:17:20,700
that's behind it.

469
00:17:21,819 --> 00:17:24,159
And to me, it makes it even more,

470
00:17:25,259 --> 00:17:26,474
magical to

471
00:17:26,875 --> 00:17:27,375
connect

472
00:17:27,994 --> 00:17:29,694
the theory with the everyday

473
00:17:29,994 --> 00:17:30,494
observations.

474
00:17:32,315 --> 00:17:34,894
As well as growing your wonder why collection,

475
00:17:35,115 --> 00:17:37,855
what are your plans for future outreach projects?

476
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,160
Yeah. So great question. So we're continuing the

477
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,779
science on top series monthly.

478
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:46,759
We have lots of interest from community groups

479
00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:49,559
to bring the planetarium out to schools, to

480
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:50,619
community events.

481
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,174
So that's definitely gonna keep us busy,

482
00:17:54,134 --> 00:17:56,855
and continue to write. We have a number

483
00:17:56,855 --> 00:17:59,494
of students here in our physics program who

484
00:17:59,494 --> 00:18:02,315
are keen to get involved in science communication,

485
00:18:02,535 --> 00:18:05,335
create little videos for our YouTube channel or

486
00:18:05,335 --> 00:18:05,835
for,

487
00:18:06,375 --> 00:18:08,875
social media. So helping them with that.

488
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,660
And then our nonprofit organization, Royal City Science,

489
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,339
we're advocating

490
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,819
for the building of a new science center

491
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,339
for Southwestern Ontario.

492
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,039
So that's been a huge focus of mine

493
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:21,525
too.

494
00:18:22,005 --> 00:18:22,664
So we're,

495
00:18:23,525 --> 00:18:26,265
really pushing hard in applying for funding,

496
00:18:27,365 --> 00:18:29,464
for the next step of the feasibility study.

497
00:18:29,684 --> 00:18:32,244
And then, hopefully, when that demonstrates that this

498
00:18:32,244 --> 00:18:34,325
is an actual viable option, we'll be at

499
00:18:34,325 --> 00:18:36,005
the point where we can start a capital

500
00:18:36,005 --> 00:18:37,065
campaign and

501
00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:40,140
and actually start building something. Yeah. Well, that

502
00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:42,720
would be really exciting. Mhmm. Yeah.

503
00:18:43,099 --> 00:18:44,779
Definitely. And and the plan would be to

504
00:18:44,779 --> 00:18:46,779
have it here in Guelph and Actually, we've

505
00:18:46,779 --> 00:18:47,759
been looking lately,

506
00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:50,140
at being just down the road from here,

507
00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:51,980
about 20 minutes down the road, in the

508
00:18:51,980 --> 00:18:52,480
township

509
00:18:52,815 --> 00:18:55,214
township of Puslunch, which is right at the

510
00:18:55,214 --> 00:18:55,714
401.

511
00:18:56,255 --> 00:18:56,734
So,

512
00:18:57,134 --> 00:19:00,414
in Southern Ontario, there's a major, highway artery

513
00:19:00,414 --> 00:19:03,375
called Highway 401 that travels basically from, you

514
00:19:03,375 --> 00:19:04,274
know, the southwesternmost

515
00:19:04,734 --> 00:19:06,355
corner all the way over to Quebec.

516
00:19:07,349 --> 00:19:07,830
And,

517
00:19:08,309 --> 00:19:10,869
so we're looking at building right beside the

518
00:19:10,869 --> 00:19:12,950
401 to be able to be much more

519
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:16,390
accessible to, you know, about 8,000,000 people who

520
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:18,549
live within a 90 minute drive of that

521
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:20,730
location. Right. And as well,

522
00:19:21,654 --> 00:19:24,214
has a number of, gravel pits in their

523
00:19:24,214 --> 00:19:26,875
township because of the geology of the region.

524
00:19:27,494 --> 00:19:29,194
And so we're aiming

525
00:19:29,815 --> 00:19:31,194
to be part of a rehabilitation

526
00:19:31,894 --> 00:19:33,734
of a gravel pit and make that part

527
00:19:33,734 --> 00:19:36,154
of the educational experience as well.

528
00:19:36,609 --> 00:19:38,849
You know, essentially, a living laboratory. Every time

529
00:19:38,849 --> 00:19:41,190
you visit, there'll be, you know, a new,

530
00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:43,649
a new development on the site or a

531
00:19:43,649 --> 00:19:46,130
new evolution of the site. And and citizen

532
00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:48,289
science projects, research, all kinds of things could

533
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:51,125
happen on the surrounding lands as well. Oh,

534
00:19:51,125 --> 00:19:53,365
that that that sounds great. Yeah. And and

535
00:19:53,365 --> 00:19:55,204
so finally, Joanne, I mean, you you're a

536
00:19:55,204 --> 00:19:56,105
pro at this.

537
00:19:56,964 --> 00:19:58,805
So I'm sure a lot of people out

538
00:19:58,805 --> 00:20:00,484
there are, you know, would would like to

539
00:20:00,484 --> 00:20:03,029
know what sort of advice you have about,

540
00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:05,289
you know, getting involved in Outreach.

541
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:07,450
I mean, you know, either as an undergraduate

542
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:10,070
or as a a professor or somebody in

543
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:13,269
between, maybe even somebody in industry. What's, I

544
00:20:13,269 --> 00:20:15,625
mean, what would your top tips be? Yeah.

545
00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:17,384
Well, I would say definitely start with what

546
00:20:17,384 --> 00:20:19,625
you know. You know? Focus on on what

547
00:20:19,625 --> 00:20:21,384
your areas of interest are. I think if

548
00:20:21,384 --> 00:20:23,865
you're enthusiastic and excited about what you're talking

549
00:20:23,865 --> 00:20:25,005
about, that translates.

550
00:20:25,944 --> 00:20:28,265
So, you know, start talking about the things

551
00:20:28,265 --> 00:20:30,109
that you do. Try and make it as

552
00:20:30,109 --> 00:20:31,630
tactile and hands on as you can. I

553
00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:34,369
mean, obviously, that's more difficult, different disciplines.

554
00:20:35,230 --> 00:20:37,710
But yeah. And make connections with you know,

555
00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:39,549
start small. You don't have to start with

556
00:20:39,549 --> 00:20:41,630
a monthly series at a pub that runs,

557
00:20:41,630 --> 00:20:43,125
you know, for years on end.

558
00:20:43,605 --> 00:20:45,924
Just start with a one off. Maybe you

559
00:20:45,924 --> 00:20:47,944
have kids who are in scouts, or maybe,

560
00:20:48,404 --> 00:20:49,464
your neighbor has,

561
00:20:50,164 --> 00:20:52,724
you know, a a community group that meets

562
00:20:52,724 --> 00:20:54,585
monthly to have a speaker.

563
00:20:55,045 --> 00:20:56,585
There's lots out there.

564
00:20:57,125 --> 00:20:59,390
And just, you know, make connections and say,

565
00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:01,150
hey. I'd like to come and and chat

566
00:21:01,150 --> 00:21:03,390
for half an hour and and just keep

567
00:21:03,390 --> 00:21:03,789
it,

568
00:21:04,269 --> 00:21:06,450
informal, keep it fun, keep

569
00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:08,369
it keep it light.

570
00:21:09,150 --> 00:21:10,849
And and your enthusiasm

571
00:21:11,549 --> 00:21:11,954
is

572
00:21:12,355 --> 00:21:14,774
so important, and it's so infectious. And,

573
00:21:15,554 --> 00:21:17,474
and that's, I think, the best way to

574
00:21:17,474 --> 00:21:19,634
start. Oh, that's great. That's some great advice.

575
00:21:19,634 --> 00:21:21,794
Thanks for, coming on the podcast, Joanne. Oh,

576
00:21:21,794 --> 00:21:23,174
it was my pleasure. Thanks.

577
00:21:30,309 --> 00:21:33,589
You can explore Joanne's Wonder Why series of

578
00:21:33,589 --> 00:21:34,089
articles

579
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:35,529
at www.wonderwhy.ca.

580
00:21:41,164 --> 00:21:44,384
Graphene is a sheet of carbon just 1

581
00:21:44,444 --> 00:21:45,345
atom thick,

582
00:21:45,804 --> 00:21:49,265
and it was first fully isolated and characterized

583
00:21:49,964 --> 00:21:53,884
just 20 years ago by Andre Guim and

584
00:21:53,884 --> 00:21:54,384
Konstantin

585
00:21:54,924 --> 00:21:55,424
Novosilov

586
00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:57,019
at the UK's

587
00:21:57,799 --> 00:21:59,019
University of Manchester.

588
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,279
They went on to share a Nobel Prize

589
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:05,100
for their pioneering work. And physicists

590
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,279
around the world have since shown that the

591
00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:12,214
material has a wide range of fascinating properties

592
00:22:12,674 --> 00:22:14,454
and commercial uses.

593
00:22:15,234 --> 00:22:17,734
Today, however, the mass manufacture

594
00:22:18,115 --> 00:22:18,855
of graphene

595
00:22:19,154 --> 00:22:20,295
is not particularly

596
00:22:20,755 --> 00:22:21,255
sustainable.

597
00:22:22,194 --> 00:22:24,214
To find out how this can be improved,

598
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:26,170
I spoke to Burju

599
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:27,690
Sanur Okan,

600
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:29,769
who is principal investigator

601
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:31,130
at Sabanju

602
00:22:31,670 --> 00:22:32,170
University's

603
00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:33,529
sustainable

604
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:34,730
advanced

605
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:35,690
materials

606
00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:38,170
research group in Istanbul.

607
00:22:39,055 --> 00:22:40,275
Here's that conversation.

608
00:22:47,775 --> 00:22:49,714
I'm joined down the line from Istanbul

609
00:22:50,174 --> 00:22:51,075
by Birju

610
00:22:51,455 --> 00:22:52,595
Saner Okan.

611
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:55,279
Hi, Birju. Welcome to the podcast.

612
00:22:56,299 --> 00:22:56,799
Hello.

613
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:58,640
Thank you so much.

614
00:22:59,179 --> 00:23:01,599
So, Birju, you're the principal investigator

615
00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:03,119
at Sabangju

616
00:23:03,420 --> 00:23:03,920
University's

617
00:23:04,619 --> 00:23:05,119
sustainable

618
00:23:05,579 --> 00:23:06,799
advanced materials

619
00:23:07,099 --> 00:23:09,674
research group. What are the goals of your

620
00:23:09,674 --> 00:23:10,174
group?

621
00:23:10,554 --> 00:23:13,914
The goal of the sustainable advanced materials research

622
00:23:13,914 --> 00:23:15,694
group is to derive innovation

623
00:23:16,554 --> 00:23:17,454
in sustainable

624
00:23:17,755 --> 00:23:18,894
material solutions,

625
00:23:19,674 --> 00:23:20,654
through interdisciplinary

626
00:23:21,194 --> 00:23:21,694
research.

627
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:26,660
My research group spans, the development of sustainable

628
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:27,460
nanomaterials

629
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,779
like, graphene from different waste sources,

630
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:32,820
functional

631
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:33,940
coatings,

632
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,140
like activating the fabrics,

633
00:23:38,174 --> 00:23:40,434
providing some electrical conductivity,

634
00:23:40,815 --> 00:23:41,715
thermal conductivity

635
00:23:42,495 --> 00:23:43,394
to the surfaces,

636
00:23:43,775 --> 00:23:47,154
and advanced composite materials all aimed at fostering

637
00:23:47,215 --> 00:23:50,515
a circular economy guided by life cycle assessment

638
00:23:50,575 --> 00:23:51,075
principles.

639
00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:54,690
Our group strive to create multi scale and

640
00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:56,230
multi functional composites

641
00:23:56,690 --> 00:23:59,330
as well as functional membranes to address the

642
00:23:59,330 --> 00:24:01,910
critical challenges in energy efficiency

643
00:24:02,610 --> 00:24:04,150
and wastewater treatment,

644
00:24:04,529 --> 00:24:05,029
contributing

645
00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:06,549
to a more sustainable

646
00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:07,350
future.

647
00:24:08,015 --> 00:24:11,134
And one of your research interests is the

648
00:24:11,134 --> 00:24:12,434
sustainable production

649
00:24:13,054 --> 00:24:14,595
and use of Graphene.

650
00:24:15,214 --> 00:24:17,634
So today, how is graphene produced

651
00:24:18,174 --> 00:24:20,835
and used? And what are the current sustainability

652
00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:21,794
issues?

653
00:24:23,099 --> 00:24:23,599
Graphene

654
00:24:24,059 --> 00:24:26,319
is typically produced from graphite,

655
00:24:26,859 --> 00:24:29,279
through methods like chemical exfoliation

656
00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:33,200
using strong acidic solution, like sulfuric acid,

657
00:24:33,579 --> 00:24:35,519
nitric acid, phosphoric acid,

658
00:24:35,894 --> 00:24:39,035
and also using highly oxidizing agent like potassium

659
00:24:39,095 --> 00:24:39,595
permanganate.

660
00:24:40,455 --> 00:24:42,234
This process is highly exothermic

661
00:24:42,855 --> 00:24:43,994
releasing a significant

662
00:24:44,295 --> 00:24:46,695
amount of heat and is not scalable for

663
00:24:46,695 --> 00:24:49,920
large scale industrial application due to the safety

664
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,259
concerns and environmental impacts.

665
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,299
The production process generates

666
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,619
toxic waste and involves high energy consumption

667
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:00,980
making,

668
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,299
this process unsustainable.

669
00:25:04,484 --> 00:25:06,825
But when you look at the current sustainable

670
00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:07,625
issues,

671
00:25:08,164 --> 00:25:08,664
especially

672
00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:09,545
handling,

673
00:25:09,924 --> 00:25:13,224
the hazardous materials and then disposing of harmful

674
00:25:13,365 --> 00:25:14,904
chemicals during the production,

675
00:25:15,525 --> 00:25:17,464
and then if you tailor this

676
00:25:17,819 --> 00:25:18,720
process condition,

677
00:25:19,339 --> 00:25:20,000
you can,

678
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,279
provide much more sustainable process.

679
00:25:23,819 --> 00:25:25,919
Instead of using acidic solutions,

680
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:27,419
you can,

681
00:25:27,819 --> 00:25:30,079
evaluate to use some sustainable

682
00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,720
waste sources like plastics,

683
00:25:33,315 --> 00:25:33,815
like,

684
00:25:34,274 --> 00:25:37,575
biomass because they contain carbon source inside

685
00:25:37,954 --> 00:25:40,994
and then you can mimic the conventional graphene

686
00:25:40,994 --> 00:25:42,214
production methods.

687
00:25:42,595 --> 00:25:46,375
And using this alternative more sustainable carbon sources

688
00:25:46,434 --> 00:25:47,575
instead of graphite,

689
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,940
it is possible to reduce the environmental footprint,

690
00:25:51,559 --> 00:25:52,700
improve the scalability,

691
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:53,980
and then provide

692
00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:55,019
sustainable

693
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,539
production methods

694
00:25:57,079 --> 00:26:00,460
and then support circular economic principles and reduce

695
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,700
the dependence on raw graphite.

696
00:26:03,224 --> 00:26:05,224
I see. And and what are you doing,

697
00:26:05,464 --> 00:26:07,464
in your lab at the moment? What are

698
00:26:07,464 --> 00:26:09,085
you and your colleagues doing,

699
00:26:09,785 --> 00:26:11,644
to to forward this goal

700
00:26:12,105 --> 00:26:12,845
of creating,

701
00:26:13,464 --> 00:26:14,684
sustainable graphene?

702
00:26:15,384 --> 00:26:16,285
In my group,

703
00:26:16,825 --> 00:26:18,605
especially, we focus on

704
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,179
much more

705
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,659
mild production techniques instead of using acidic solutions.

706
00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:28,659
We are selecting some carbon sources like,

707
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,259
coming from the pyrolysis process of waste tires

708
00:26:32,744 --> 00:26:34,845
and then we are getting the carbon black.

709
00:26:35,144 --> 00:26:37,865
And then carbon black can convert it into

710
00:26:37,865 --> 00:26:39,325
the crystalline structure

711
00:26:39,704 --> 00:26:42,664
with the developed processes in our group. So

712
00:26:42,664 --> 00:26:45,640
here that it is important to make amorphous

713
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,500
carbon material into

714
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,380
crystalline

715
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:49,339
graphene.

716
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,759
So my major aim to make to use

717
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:53,259
this,

718
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,500
amorphous and waste carbon

719
00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:56,779
to use,

720
00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:57,980
to develop

721
00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:58,859
sustainable

722
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,299
production technique

723
00:27:00,654 --> 00:27:01,954
And then we are developing

724
00:27:02,335 --> 00:27:03,954
Graphene from waste tire,

725
00:27:04,335 --> 00:27:07,075
Graphene from plastics like polypropylene,

726
00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:07,934
which is,

727
00:27:08,414 --> 00:27:09,714
widely used in

728
00:27:10,015 --> 00:27:12,194
the commodity application in automotive.

729
00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:15,170
So this is most of the post consumable

730
00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:18,049
plastics can be converted into graphene

731
00:27:18,589 --> 00:27:19,329
by using,

732
00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:22,589
some templates like these are this can be

733
00:27:22,589 --> 00:27:25,875
also natural templates like talc because talc,

734
00:27:26,195 --> 00:27:29,075
like a laminar structure, 2 d structure, and

735
00:27:29,075 --> 00:27:30,134
then you can mimic

736
00:27:30,434 --> 00:27:32,934
chemical vapor deposition technique by

737
00:27:33,634 --> 00:27:36,355
acting this material as a silicon wafer. And

738
00:27:36,355 --> 00:27:39,170
then instead of ethylene gas, you can use

739
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:39,830
the carbon

740
00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:41,910
coming from the plastics

741
00:27:42,210 --> 00:27:45,350
at high temperature and carbon atoms can dissociate.

742
00:27:45,890 --> 00:27:47,750
And then you can start to grow

743
00:27:48,049 --> 00:27:51,955
graphene structure on the natural substrate. So this

744
00:27:51,955 --> 00:27:52,934
also provide,

745
00:27:53,715 --> 00:27:54,455
waste management,

746
00:27:54,914 --> 00:27:57,735
and then you can support circular economic practices

747
00:27:57,875 --> 00:28:00,295
by turning waste into high value

748
00:28:00,595 --> 00:28:01,095
materials.

749
00:28:02,914 --> 00:28:05,654
And, Birju, this isn't just a fundamental

750
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:08,730
research that you're doing. You've cofounded a company

751
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:10,009
called Euronova

752
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:13,930
that produces graphene from waste tires.

753
00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:16,230
Can you talk a bit about the company?

754
00:28:17,109 --> 00:28:19,430
How how many people do you employ, and,

755
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:22,404
how much graphene are you producing at the

756
00:28:22,404 --> 00:28:22,904
moment?

757
00:28:24,644 --> 00:28:25,224
In fact,

758
00:28:26,884 --> 00:28:28,964
I I have, 2 company. Now,

759
00:28:29,605 --> 00:28:32,505
I, a little bit changed my business plan.

760
00:28:32,884 --> 00:28:33,945
And then just

761
00:28:34,589 --> 00:28:37,890
producing graphene from waste material is not enough

762
00:28:38,269 --> 00:28:41,230
to find a suitable customer in the value

763
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:42,450
chain in the market.

764
00:28:43,230 --> 00:28:45,650
So in order to attack the the

765
00:28:46,029 --> 00:28:48,494
end users and then in order to collaborate

766
00:28:48,494 --> 00:28:51,355
the OEMs, graphene should be in some,

767
00:28:52,615 --> 00:28:53,115
plastics

768
00:28:53,734 --> 00:28:56,134
and then also it should be some in

769
00:28:56,134 --> 00:28:58,875
carrier. In the standing alone, it's not easy

770
00:28:59,174 --> 00:29:00,394
to find a suitable,

771
00:29:01,414 --> 00:29:01,914
customer

772
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:03,450
in the,

773
00:29:04,390 --> 00:29:06,410
market. So with EuroNova,

774
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:09,690
we addressed it to use the sustainable,

775
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:12,170
graphene and sustainable

776
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:15,049
additives, not limited with graphene. Also,

777
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:17,370
we are using the carbon fibers

778
00:29:17,984 --> 00:29:19,424
coming from the, the,

779
00:29:19,825 --> 00:29:20,884
company processes

780
00:29:21,505 --> 00:29:22,724
and then scalable,

781
00:29:23,825 --> 00:29:26,164
waste materials can be used into

782
00:29:26,865 --> 00:29:27,365
thermoplastic

783
00:29:27,825 --> 00:29:31,424
compounding process because, also, plastics are a common

784
00:29:31,424 --> 00:29:32,325
problem now.

785
00:29:32,659 --> 00:29:35,380
So we can introduce a new approach to

786
00:29:35,380 --> 00:29:36,679
waste and post consumer

787
00:29:37,940 --> 00:29:38,440
utilization

788
00:29:39,299 --> 00:29:40,679
by developing additives

789
00:29:41,140 --> 00:29:41,960
and reintegrating

790
00:29:42,659 --> 00:29:44,119
them into the economy.

791
00:29:44,944 --> 00:29:46,944
So what we are doing, we are develop

792
00:29:46,944 --> 00:29:47,444
sustainable

793
00:29:47,825 --> 00:29:50,484
masterbatch, having graphene, other fillers,

794
00:29:50,944 --> 00:29:51,444
and,

795
00:29:52,224 --> 00:29:52,884
and also

796
00:29:53,184 --> 00:29:56,565
different waste materials coming from thermosets, thermoplastics,

797
00:29:57,105 --> 00:29:58,164
and biomass.

798
00:29:58,589 --> 00:30:00,049
We are making,

799
00:30:00,589 --> 00:30:03,470
like a puzzle. And then we are bringing

800
00:30:03,470 --> 00:30:06,429
the all these waste materials into value added

801
00:30:06,429 --> 00:30:08,210
products to be used in OEM,

802
00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:10,130
OEM applications.

803
00:30:11,595 --> 00:30:12,815
So in our company,

804
00:30:13,595 --> 00:30:14,974
now, we will,

805
00:30:15,835 --> 00:30:17,134
start to produce

806
00:30:17,994 --> 00:30:19,054
a mass production

807
00:30:19,355 --> 00:30:22,815
of the material that we verified by OEM

808
00:30:23,194 --> 00:30:24,174
in this November.

809
00:30:24,869 --> 00:30:25,990
We we will,

810
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:28,009
work now about

811
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:29,609
10 different

812
00:30:30,309 --> 00:30:31,930
investor in the company.

813
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:33,289
We reorganized

814
00:30:33,670 --> 00:30:34,410
the company

815
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:35,849
and then,

816
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:37,690
we got investment

817
00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:40,964
and then we can scale the the materials,

818
00:30:41,024 --> 00:30:44,164
sustainable thermoplastic materials, having different

819
00:30:44,544 --> 00:30:45,444
waste additives,

820
00:30:46,464 --> 00:30:47,204
to produce,

821
00:30:48,224 --> 00:30:49,444
tonne scale production,

822
00:30:50,384 --> 00:30:51,924
at the end of this year.

823
00:30:53,089 --> 00:30:55,750
And, Birju, when you speak to potential customers,

824
00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:58,230
of graphene and other materials,

825
00:30:58,529 --> 00:31:01,349
are they very keen in buying,

826
00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:04,470
products that are

827
00:31:04,849 --> 00:31:05,349
produced

828
00:31:05,744 --> 00:31:07,825
sustainably? Is that a is that sort of

829
00:31:07,825 --> 00:31:08,464
a key,

830
00:31:08,865 --> 00:31:09,365
requirement

831
00:31:09,744 --> 00:31:10,484
for many

832
00:31:10,865 --> 00:31:11,365
manufacturers?

833
00:31:13,025 --> 00:31:13,505
Yeah.

834
00:31:13,984 --> 00:31:15,605
This is important question.

835
00:31:16,144 --> 00:31:16,644
Because,

836
00:31:17,345 --> 00:31:20,659
in the market, especially in the commodity products,

837
00:31:20,659 --> 00:31:22,279
the price is very important.

838
00:31:23,539 --> 00:31:24,679
This is very competitive.

839
00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:25,960
So,

840
00:31:26,579 --> 00:31:27,079
graphene,

841
00:31:27,619 --> 00:31:29,940
you know, high-tech material. And then if you

842
00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:31,399
find a suitable solution

843
00:31:32,174 --> 00:31:34,195
for graphene and for the manufacturing,

844
00:31:34,975 --> 00:31:37,295
so you can decrease the cost. In our

845
00:31:37,295 --> 00:31:39,855
case, we decrease the cost and then we

846
00:31:39,855 --> 00:31:41,715
combine the also the material

847
00:31:42,335 --> 00:31:43,154
with the thermoplastics

848
00:31:44,579 --> 00:31:48,679
suitable for the conventional system, extrusion system without

849
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:50,440
any additional investment

850
00:31:50,980 --> 00:31:51,480
from,

851
00:31:52,019 --> 00:31:55,319
the, for example, part producer sides

852
00:31:55,619 --> 00:31:57,319
or tier 1, tier 2.

853
00:31:57,684 --> 00:32:00,904
So you could not get any additional cost

854
00:32:01,125 --> 00:32:03,384
in your process, so you can apply

855
00:32:03,765 --> 00:32:04,505
this material

856
00:32:05,045 --> 00:32:05,705
in the,

857
00:32:06,325 --> 00:32:08,984
their in their value chain. So we can

858
00:32:09,205 --> 00:32:09,705
finally,

859
00:32:10,805 --> 00:32:11,705
address the

860
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:16,589
global plastic industry and then related sectors

861
00:32:17,049 --> 00:32:18,910
by decreasing the cost

862
00:32:19,369 --> 00:32:20,109
and providing

863
00:32:21,369 --> 00:32:25,049
a sustainable solution because carbon tax becomes very

864
00:32:25,049 --> 00:32:25,549
important,

865
00:32:26,144 --> 00:32:29,505
Each country having different levels. So in order

866
00:32:29,505 --> 00:32:31,205
to reduce the carbon tax,

867
00:32:32,305 --> 00:32:35,525
each sector should use their post consumer

868
00:32:36,224 --> 00:32:36,724
waste.

869
00:32:37,265 --> 00:32:40,484
So this can be, for example, in automotive

870
00:32:40,705 --> 00:32:41,205
side.

871
00:32:41,569 --> 00:32:42,230
In automotive,

872
00:32:42,529 --> 00:32:44,130
makers should use the,

873
00:32:44,529 --> 00:32:46,789
their base at least 25%

874
00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:49,670
in their parts

875
00:32:50,130 --> 00:32:50,609
by,

876
00:32:51,009 --> 00:32:51,509
coming,

877
00:32:52,130 --> 00:32:53,029
from their

878
00:32:53,505 --> 00:32:54,005
processes.

879
00:32:54,545 --> 00:32:57,285
So this becomes very important, and this initiate

880
00:32:57,904 --> 00:33:00,625
also to reduce the carbon tax and then

881
00:33:00,625 --> 00:33:02,724
provide new solution to the companies.

882
00:33:04,305 --> 00:33:04,964
I see.

883
00:33:05,339 --> 00:33:07,500
Well, that that does sound really exciting and

884
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:09,839
and and also very good from an environmental

885
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:10,640
environmental

886
00:33:11,259 --> 00:33:12,000
and sustainability

887
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:13,759
point of view.

888
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:16,700
Well, great. I I hope that, both your

889
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:20,140
fundamental research and Euro Nova go very well

890
00:33:20,140 --> 00:33:21,305
in the future.

891
00:33:21,605 --> 00:33:23,605
Birce, thanks so much for coming on the

892
00:33:23,605 --> 00:33:24,105
podcast.

893
00:33:24,644 --> 00:33:25,785
Thank you so much.

894
00:33:32,725 --> 00:33:33,785
That was Birce

895
00:33:34,485 --> 00:33:34,985
Okan

896
00:33:35,525 --> 00:33:36,265
at Turkey's

897
00:33:36,779 --> 00:33:37,920
Sabanci University.

898
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:41,440
And before that, we heard from Joanne O'Meara

899
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:44,400
at the University of Guelph in Canada.

900
00:33:44,779 --> 00:33:47,359
Thanks to both for joining me today.

901
00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:50,299
And a special thanks to our producer, Fred

902
00:33:50,299 --> 00:33:50,799
Iles.

903
00:33:51,355 --> 00:33:53,355
I'm afraid that's all the time we have

904
00:33:53,355 --> 00:33:54,654
for this week's podcast.

905
00:33:55,194 --> 00:33:57,434
I'll be back again next week when I'm

906
00:33:57,434 --> 00:33:58,335
in conversation

907
00:33:58,875 --> 00:34:01,515
with the author of a book that explains

908
00:34:01,515 --> 00:34:02,414
how astronomers

909
00:34:03,034 --> 00:34:04,414
could educate themselves,

910
00:34:04,954 --> 00:34:05,774
their students,

911
00:34:06,169 --> 00:34:07,069
and the public

912
00:34:07,369 --> 00:34:08,750
about climate change.