207 | How to Let the Child Lead in Game Play: Child-Centered Examples and Guidance

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am answering a question from Theodore in the UK

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and he mentioned that he has been setting up his playroom

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and he's wondering about

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games.

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So this is an interesting question and this is

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a question I get asked pretty frequently actually.

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So I'm glad that you brought this up Theodore. Thanks so much

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from the other side of the pond. We greet you.

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Thanks for being a listener over there.

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Let me read a little bit of his email and then we'll talk through it.

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Thank you so much for the Play Therapy Podcast and your parenting podcast.

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As a parent and a counselor,

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I have found both incredibly valuable and I only wish I had discovered them sooner.

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I'm currently preparing to see my first clients as a placement

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counselor as part of my master's program here in the UK

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as an integrative program.

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Du

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du du

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we draw on some psychoanalysis. What?

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But the child-centered model is at the heart of what we do.

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Thank God, I'm wiping sweat off of my brow.

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I've been arranging my own play materials

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as per Landreth guidelines and have considered getting

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some games such as Jenga and a pack of cards to appeal to older clients.

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You absolutely should.

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You have to make sure that your room is pre teen and teen friendly

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as I'm new to the podcast. This may have been covered already.

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But I was wondering what a child-centered approach looks like when playing

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Jenga or turn taking games.

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My first thoughts are to keep the child in the lead and

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when it comes to my turn to offer quote in here,

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you choose which move I make.

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But I've been wondering if some kids might find

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this frustrating that we're not playing the game,

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quote for real.

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I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. Ok.

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So Theodore, you're actually kind of already on the right track.

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We'll just kind of tease it apart together. So

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we do let the child lead

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when the child sits down to play games. So what I mean by that is

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we do not have any expectations of the rules of the game.

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We do not assume that the game is going to be played according to the instructions.

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So when the child pulls out a game,

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they

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set it up and they get ready to play and then if

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they don't already start describing how the game's going to go.

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When they tell you it's your turn, your immediate response is,

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tell me what I'm supposed to do

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or I wonder how I'm supposed to play

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or I wonder how you play this game?

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Notice that? I said, I wonder how you play this game because that's very important.

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It's not, I wonder how this game is played.

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It's,

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I wonder how you play this game because the child can

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completely make up rules if they feel compelled to do so.

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So you are going to follow the child's lead

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in any kind of board game or card game

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scenario.

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However, there are going to be kids that are gonna say

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just like play the regular way.

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And in that scenario you say,

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ok, well, tell me what your regular way is. So I make sure that we're on the same page

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or,

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ok, explain to me the regular way

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and then we'll play that way.

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So they actually are going to coach you through

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even if it's the quote instruction based way.

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So uno, right?

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You have to lay the same color or the same number.

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All right. That is the traditional way to play Uno. So even if they say

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if I play a blue five, you can either play a blue card or you can play a five

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and then if you don't have blue and you don't have a five, you can play a wild.

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Ok,

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so now they've given you the quote real way to play the game,

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you're going to play the game according to the instructions you were given.

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However, if a child says,

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ok, you're gonna lay down five cards at a time and

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they can be any color, they can be any number.

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You just have to make sure that you put five down

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and they have to all add up to more than 15,

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ok, creative way to play a game.

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And so the goal is always

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have them give you a cue and a prompt as

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to what the expectations are for playing the game.

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And when you mentioned that some kids might find

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it frustrating that we're not playing the game.

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For real,

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for real is the, the hinge pin here

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for real can be whatever the child chooses it to be.

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Because when a kid makes up rules to a game,

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they're playing the game for real because that is real to them in that moment.

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So instructions are not necessarily the way that we play the game, right?

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So typically when a kid says

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no, the way like it's supposed to be played

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or no, like the real way

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or like how it's supposed to be

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when they start to get a little bit like agitated like that.

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And you can tell it's like they want you to tell them how the game is

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supposed to go or they expect you to know how the game is supposed to go.

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My standard response is

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you really want me to play it a certain way.

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But kids play games in all kinds of ways in here.

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So that's why I'm wondering how you want me to play

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as soon as you give the why, right? The why matters. I come back to that all the time.

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As soon as you give the why to a child,

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I'm not being defiant. I'm not being difficult. I'm not refusing to play.

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I'm not trying to do anything other than

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I'm going to remind you that when kids are in charge,

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kids get to decide.

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And so often, you know, a kid will get,

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don't break the ice or a kid will get connect

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four or a kid will get uno or playing cards.

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Ok?

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We're gonna play whatever game and we're gonna play it the real way or the right way.

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Sometimes kids will say that the right way.

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And

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in that scenario, I say,

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hm, you wanna play it a specific way?

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I wonder if you can tell me what that looks

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like because kids play games any way that they choose.

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So I'm not really sure how you would play this game

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and sometimes they might roll their eyes and be like, oh my gosh,

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you're such an idiot, Ms Brenna,

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you know, but they will then give you the cue and then you follow that.

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Ok? So I'm gonna lay down a five or a blue

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and it's always going to be a color or a number match,

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right? Ok.

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So then they've given very clear instructions. Now, at any point,

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you're not sure exactly what they would have you do.

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In other words,

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if you get a reverse or if you get a draw to or if

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you get a wild do those play the quote real or right way.

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That's something that might not have been discussed.

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So then in that scenario, you revisit it. So you say,

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OK, and I typically whisper this. So, OK, I got this one and I'll flip it around

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and if it's a reverse or a draw to or a skip or any of those specialty cards,

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then I'm going to say,

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I wonder what this does.

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Remember? We have no information that the child doesn't have.

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We know nothing that the child doesn't know

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and we cannot assume anything in a playroom.

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So just because the quote right way to play, if they explained color and, and number,

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they didn't say anything about the specialty cards.

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So you're going to do a check in as the game unfolds

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to

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just reassure yourself that you're playing according to the child's version

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of what this looks like. And I'm gonna go off on a related aside, tangent for a second.

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So follow me down this rabbit trail, but

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I forget where, where this came up we were talking about Uno and oh, I,

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I was on one of my coaching calls and one of my

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therapists showed a video where she was playing Uno

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and they were playing that new way where you can double the same exact card.

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So like a lot of my kids have like told me that this is like a new thing. And so

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if they play, if you play a draw two, for example,

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and then they have the exact same card.

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So you play yellow draw two and they have a yellow draw two in their hand.

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They can lay that down and then you have to draw four.

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But if you had another draw two yellow,

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you could lay it down and then they'd have to draw 60, this is nonsense.

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Y'all like I, every time

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the kid says, oh, we're gonna play the double way or whatever they call it

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internally. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That is not how uno is played.

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And I don't know who came up with this dumb idea,

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but I hate it.

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Oh my gosh.

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That literally, I can go with pretty much any crazy rule that a kid makes up.

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But for some reason, this whole uno double the card thing.

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I'm like, I've had to draw like 12 cards.

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They, they laid down like three, draw four wilds. And I'm like

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this is craziness. I am not drawing 12 cards, but of course I am because you know

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child-centered, we don't deviate

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the competitor in me, man.

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I can let go so many things with games,

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but that whole rule of you just double the card up.

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It literally drives me bonkers.

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Anyway, I'm back on track now.

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So you might be one of those people that absolutely loves that rule and you're like,

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what is the matter with you?

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I don't know so many things.

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So anyway, the point is a kid is going to take the game in any direction.

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The kid is going to give you cues,

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give you directions and you're going to just follow them.

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So while at some point, yes, you might say you get to choose which move.

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I make some kids will absolutely love the idea of moving your piece

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for you rolling the dice for you picking the card for you.

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Like they'll actually just play your part in the game because they're in charge.

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Some kids love that.

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But some kids want you to actually be the other person in the game.

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So in that scenario,

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I wonder what you want me to do.

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It's not, you get to choose which move I make.

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It's, I wonder what you want me to do or I wonder how you play this game

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or I wonder what happens when it's my turn.

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So that's the way that you get the cue and let me,

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let me throw this out because I just want, it's a helpful reminder.

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We only use,

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I wonder statements when we're gathering clinically necessary information.

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So that is why we're using,

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I wonder statements in this because you need to

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know how the child wants to play the game.

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Please please please break yourself of the habit

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of using I wonder statements.

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Just to wonder things.

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It needs to be for clinically necessary and relevant information.

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So how a child wants you to play a game

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clinically relevant because you need the cue,

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be mindful. That that's what we reserve our wonder statements for.

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All right, Theodore. Thank you so much for the question.

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Thanks for listening in the UK. All of my UK

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ers,

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I'm hoping that I can come speak over there soon. So stay tuned for that.

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We're, we're trying to see if we can

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partner with

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some of the play therapy associations over there and maybe go speak. So I'd love to

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come across the pond. I was actually there when I was a teenager.

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I was a student ambassador to the UK and I visited England, Scotland,

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Ireland and Wales in one trip

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and I would love to go back. So that would be amazing. Theodore. Thanks again.

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If you would like to reach out to me, I'd love to hear from you,

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

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Hey, I'd also love some feedback.

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I'm interested how you all feel about the more frequent Q and A's each week.

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I know I used to only do them on Thursdays and I've been doing at least three or week

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in the last several weeks.

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So if you wanna shoot me an email and let me know if that's helpful. If it's too much,

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if you would prefer a lightning round.

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I'm just curious,

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your thoughts about doing almost a daily Q and A in addition to the curriculum

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episodes.

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Just let me know,

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you know that

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this is for you. So I wanna make sure that it's

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what it needs to be.

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All right, y'all love you. We'll talk again soon. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources.

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