Epstein Survivor Marina Lacerda Connects and Bonds with Lala and Ambyr

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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse, sex trafficking, and allegations involving miners and connection with Jeffrey Epstein. Listener discretion is strongly advised as some content may be disturbing or triggering.

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Speaker 2: Please take care while listening.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Amber Hilala, Welcome to An Unlikely Affair.

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Speaker 3: Hello everybody, Welcome back to another episode of An Unlikely Affair. Hi Lala, Hi babe. How are we? We are doing dandy? This fine?

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Speaker 2: What is today?

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Speaker 4: Monday?

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Speaker 2: Tuesday? I don't even know what day it is. The day is just run together.

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Speaker 1: I have been thinking about this interview that we have today NonStop, and you put it so perfectly, and obviously I won't share exactly what you said, but today we have on an Epstein survivor, Marina Lacerda, and I said, you know, I want to create an environment for her where she feels and heard and I am just feeling the pressure. And you saying, you know, it's not about it's not about you. Imagine going through what they've been through and not being able to talk about it, and then you're finally able to talk about it, how would you feel? And I'm like, I feel amazing let's fucking go, let's get her on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think for me, you know, conversations like this really matter because they remind us that behind every file, every headline, every news story, every tabloid, there's a human being. And these women that had to deal with this, men and women, they deserve dignity, right And for me, I deeply care about women, and I care about them being able to tell their stories and being able to hold space for them to tell their truth.

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Speaker 1: So this is.

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Speaker 3: So freeing, I feel like for these women, and I'm so excited to have her on.

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Speaker 2: So I am too. Let's get her here. Hi. Oh my god, we're so good.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the word excited is the right word, but I am very much looking forward to having you on today. I find you incredibly inspiring and I just I want to know what you went through and all of the things I amber brought this up today. I cannot imagine not being able to talk about your experience and then you're finally able to. I just can't imagine what that feeling is like.

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Speaker 2: What is that like?

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Speaker 4: I feel like it's a great feeling. It took a while for me to break my silence, right so I feel like all the other survivors who have been doing this for a very long time, I think for them it's you know, a little bit more emotional because they have been doing this for a very very long time. And after I broke my silence in September, I really have to say, like everyone has been reaching out to hear my story. So I've been very grateful and thankful for that, you know, So it hasn't you know, it's like Hailey Robinson says to me, like change doesn't happen overnight, but it's been so quick for me to spread my story and to bring awareness and to uplift women to always use their voice and never to stay silent, to stay silent. So I think I've been actually very you know, I've been very grateful, I have to say, so a little bit different for me, a little bit different for.

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Speaker 3: Me, thank you so much for your vulnerability, because I know at the same time it's you know.

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Speaker 2: Your experience has a lot of people can't understand it.

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Speaker 3: Right, There's only probably a very small group of women which are the survivors who've been able to be vulnerable and not times you guys have gone through probably so much healing behind the scenes that the world doesn't know about. Where would you say that you are now do you find that this process has been even more healing for you?

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Speaker 4: You know, I think, like what you said, everyone's healing process is definitely different, you know. And I think my healing process was really focused on my mother. I think she really lacked and you know, didn't take responsibility of being a mother. And I think that's where it went wrong. So I really had to heal and accept that this is the mother I have and not only is she my mom, but she's also human, right, And that's how we have to look at people first, because people are always like, well, she's your mom, she has like she loves you, she's there for you, and not all moms are like that, unfortunately. To say, you know, it's something that I always say. It's like we take everything in life. We have a test. We have a test to pass school, we have a test to become doctors, we have a test to drive a car, But there is no test out there to be a mother. And it's not to say that we need to have a test to be a mother. It's more are you capable to be because anyone can pop out a baby anytime, right, Like most women are fertile, they're able to do that. But are you capable to have those mothers duties and to have that responsibility. That's something that we need to start questioning, you know, all women, if they are capable of doing that and if they really want that in life. And I think that my healing process really had to start with my mom. I was like trying to heal through my stepfather's abuse, at Jeffrey Epstein's abuse and many other men that abused me. But you know, I really realized that in the beginning. If my mom had set boundaries and limits for me and told me, hey, don't do that, I would have never done it. You know.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned the abuse from your stepfather. When did he come into the picture? Because I know that you were recruited by Epstein when you were just fourteen years old. So I want you to if you feel comfortable by the way anything I ask, If you're like not happening, I'm so not offended.

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Speaker 2: I'll move on. But how did that come to be? Where? Where were you? How did you meet.

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Speaker 1: Epstein at fourteen? And do you a tribute you know, falling into his grips, I guess because of the abuse that you experienced.

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Speaker 4: Well. I was born in Brazil and my mother first came to New York when I was at the age of seven. She left me behind for a year in Brazil. When she left me that whole year behind, she met my stepfather, which was her boyfriend. And when I arrived to New York, I did not know she had a boyfriend. It was kind of new to me. And within a couple months he started to put on porn on the TV. My mother would work nights. He had a crazy schedule, so he would be in and out because he was like a cab driver or a private driver. So he would lay me on his lap and he would put on porn and he would cover my face with a cover and I started to peek under to see, like what was happening. Just being eight years old and not understanding why my face was being covered while the TV was on was really you know, I was wondering why, you know, And after a while he just started to reenact what was happening to the porn to me, and it went on for such a long time. My mom, you know, caught us. You know, he was like moving me around or doing something sexual in the bed when I was ten and a half and my mother caught us, and I didn't know that it was wrong, and so she explained it to me. She got into a fight with him, and she basically told me like, hey, that's never going to happen again. I'm so sorry that is happening to me. And she finally explained to me, like what was going on, and I was completely confused because I did not know that I was doing anything wrong. And moving forward, I thought that it was going to be over, but it just became a cycle where my stepfather would abuse me again and I would tell her and he would continue, and I would tell her and he would continue, and then he got to the point where he started to physically abuse me because I started to tell on her to tell on him, and then I just stopped telling her, and then I started to argue with her, like why the hell are we still in this house And I'm like eleven years old, like I should not be talking to my mom like that, And my mom would say to me, well, we are immigrants. We cannot call the police. We are very scared. I don't know if I can take care of you and your sister. She ended up having my sister at that time with my stepfather, and it just became a complete mess. And when I finally went to the police, because we had a roommate in that house, we had a four bedroom and we rented out the other two rooms, and I had a roommate and my stepfather not only had been sexually abusing my friends that would come over. So I lost all my friends. I had no more friends because they would run back to their parents and their parents would be like, well, you can no longer go there. And sometimes to day I wonder, I'm like, why did these parents ever say anything? Like why did my neighbor downstairs who knew exactly what was happening. Why didn't my best friend that I was around the corner when I used to run to her house her parents knew about it. Nobody ever said anything. And till today, I'm just so baffled, because, like, if my daughter came home and said anything about any of her friends, I would immediately ask questions and I would tell the school. So this girl comes up to me, who's the roommate, says, hey, listen, your stepfather has been, you know, also doing the same things that he's doing to you, he's doing to me. Let's go to the police. I was twelve years old, and I literally did not think about anything like immigration, my mom not getting a job. I just jumped up and went to the police. And when I went to the police, I was questioned so hard that it made me. It was so intimidating to the point where I had to demon like, you know, I had to lie about like what my stepfather did to me, because they started to tell me, well, you know, your stepfather is going to go away for a long time, and we think that you're jealous of your sister being born, and this, this, this and that. So I started to minimize the abuse. And he only did six months in jail, and then he got out, and then when he got out, my mother moved him back in.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: But before that, you know, the crazy part is when we came home after my step father got you know, arrested, I felt like, right there and then like my mom our relationship right away, it was done. It was done right there and done. She started to blame me. The reason why I couldn't do ballet and jazz tap after school was because my stepfather went to jail. The reason why we couldn't have certain food, or certain clothes or certain things was because my stepfather went to jail. She started working in a catering company. I was already working at a real estate office after school, and then I started to work with her at the catering company as well. So I was working two jobs. I was going to school, and I wasn't living a twelve year old life. And then next thing, you know, when I was thirteen and a half or fourteen, a friend of mine who I knew for a very long time, was like, hey, listen, I know exactly what you're going through, Like it was all over a story. Everybody in New York Gastoria knew, you know, what was going on. And she was like, you know, I have this pretty well connected, rich, powerful guy who like really may help you, and you know, listen, he loves to get massages by young girls, and I know him and I could hook you up with him. And I was like, that's kind of weird, because I don't know how to do, missa. I don't know how to you know, I'm not a massuse and not a licensed missus. And she was like no, no, no, no, don't worry. He really just likes young girls to be around him, and he just wants to be massaged by a young girl. The only thing is you have to take off your top. It's just like being in a bikini. She's like, you know, Marina, you've been through so much worse with your stepfather. This is nothing. And in all realities, she was right, this was like nothing to me. I've been through much worse with my stepfather. I mean there been times where my mom and him fought and she would sleep in the living room and I would sleep with her in the living room, but he would come in the living room in the in the sofa and they would have sex, and I would be on the Yeah, i would be on the floor, on the mattress on the floor, and I'm like, what the hell is going on here? Like you know, I'm like, I'm like ten and a half. I went through so many things with my stepfather that Jeffrey just seeing and hearing about Jeffrey Epstein didn't seem so bad.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, It's like you it can't get worse, right, Like you experienced the worst. Like you think, how much more evil can a human being, a man become?

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Speaker 4: And you know, I think being fourteenth. I had just turned fourteen when I met Jeffrey Epstein. I was so vulnerable and I really wanted things to go back to the way it was between my mom and I. And I thought by being this person who could pay all the bills and just be the head of household, things would change between my mom and I. I was infatuated with my mom like we had We were so close, like my real father and I just we never connected. I think just because he had four other kids, two other wives. I think we just never had that connection. He never did anything wrong. I just think he was he was twenty five years older than my mom. He was just not really he was probably tired. He was like, God, you're my fifth kid. I can't do it anymore, you know. So I was really vulnerable and I really needed help. And when she took me to Jeffrey Epstein's house. I don't know, if you guys ever been to a story of Queens, New York, It's you know, it's it's an okay place. There's not many man there's no mansions. I don't think in the story of you know, Queens and just being a little being a teenager, just thinking what a mansion is is completely different than what I walked into, Like seeing a Jeffrey Epstein's house, like it looked like a place where there were many apartments. Meanwhile, this is like a whole mansion in New York City, you know, coming in seeing those big brown doors and just the je in the front, and then knowing later on that he had like his front the front of his house, he would have something where the snow would melt, you know. I was always like so amazed about all the things. He had nothing that I knew about, right, And when I got there, I was just like wow. When the maid opened up the door, and just knowing that he had a maid, I was like, wow, like he has a maid, you know, and cut me into it, I was. I went into his office which was his like his waiting room, and just sitting there and I was talking to her and I kept whispering everything. I didn't know how to even act in this person's house, like, you know, and she's like, you know, you can talk, like you can talk in a normal voice, and I'm like, I don't know how to act, and you know, seeing all these pictures which at the time I only really knew, you know, President Bill Clinton and President Donald Trump, and you know, and as time went on, you know, when my friends and I went there were like, wow, like he knows this, prince, he knows like this, he knows like you know, many celebrities that were also on his desk, and we were just I was just so amazed. And then the maid comes it gets us and brings us to the elevator which leads to the third floor, which is that's where his massage room is. And when you open up the doors, it's a big hallway with all these beautiful sketch of these women who are naked. And the time I didn't think anything. I was like, this must be some rich people stuff, like I don't know anything, you know. We walk into his massage room. He has a massage table in the middle. He has this huge bureau with all these lotions with which at the time, I don't know if you remember, Victoria's Secret was very expensive.

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Speaker 2: Right I do remember?

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Speaker 4: Do you remember like walking into the store and just wishing you could buy everything?

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Speaker 1: Of course yes, at that page too, the fourteen is when I was like all I want is like every wonder bray all the lotions. Y.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all the lotions, and like everything smelled good, so you know, and there was obviously other very much more expensive lotions that I just did not know that, you know, did not know the names of it and the brands, you know, And I was just like so amazed. And on the ceiling he had these like clouds and like it was like the sky, and I was like, I was like, wow, this is like so cool. What a what a what a zen place? You know what.

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Speaker 1: I think walking into that at any age would be wild and very much intimidating. And I keep going back as you're talking to the fact that you were only fourteen years old, like a giant.

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Speaker 4: I was only fourteen. I have a twelve year old now who's going to be thirteen. And I look at her and I'm like, wow, my abuse just finished at this age with my stepfather, and I thought I was being free, and then my mother and I had like this whole like just break up. I felt like we broke up, me and my mom.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: I think it's one of the worst things any human can experience, is knowing that your mom really doesn't have that true love for you, you know. So he comes into the room and he, you know, he puts out his hand and he's like, Hi, my name is Jeffrey, and I was like, Hi, my name is Marina. And he says, I've heard some really wonderful things about you. And I look over to my friend and I'm like smiling at her, like yeah, you've already put in the good word for me, you know, not thinking anything, just so innocent. And he lays down and he starts to ask me a whole bunch of things, like where am I from, Like what's my life? Like do I go to school? How old I am? He's trying to figure me out, and I'm like, oh my god, this is my moment. This is where I tell him everything I've been through. I didn't tell him about my step father, but I told him so many things about my family and the things that I was doing. And I just thought this man might just help me. This might be my way out. And when we were giving him a massage, he had gotten on the phone, which Jeffrey Epstein after a while, because I you know, seeing how he moved, he always got on the phone with very very important people, and he would put us on the phone with these important people.

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Speaker 1: You would talk to these people on the phone, Yeah, about what what was the point of that.

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Speaker 4: He would just be like, you know, I'm over here doing you know, I'm getting my massage. He was like, I'm doing my ritual, like I'm getting my massage by this young, beautiful Brazilian girl. And he would say sometimes, you know, if it was in European wherever she was from, and you know, this is my time of the day. And then he would say like say hello girls and be like hey, you know, and sometimes it would be a celebrity and we'd be like, oh my god, this is so cool.

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Speaker 3: I think for narcissists, just having my own experience, these are just men that have narcissistic egos that they need to make them. It's like filling up their narcissistic cup to be able to show these young women to impress them, like hey, let me get Michael Jordan on the phone. Let me get so and so on the phone, like hey, say hi. It's like, oh my gosh to a fourteen year old. I think to most adults, being able to say any celebrity and having that interaction.

00:19:17
Speaker 2: It's part of the grooming process.

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Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I mean listen. I went to the State of the Union, and I was like, oh my god, I thought it was a shit because, you know, like I am, and I'm an adult, you know, and these are like some real people, some politicians that are doing some real things, you know. And I was like, oh my god, I'm so honored to be here as an adult. I was already amazed by that. So I can't, like, I bring myself to fourteen old me and I I think of it now, I'm like, oh my god, how stupid was that? But it's not. It's not stupid because if I tell.

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Speaker 2: My daughter stupid and you were, you were fourteen years old.

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Speaker 1: I look at myself at fourteen years old and what I thought I knew and what was cool, And I was fortunate enough to have a mother who really kept me in line and was there for me, Babi me a father who was incredible.

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Speaker 2: You were fourteen, and you had zero guidance.

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Speaker 1: The one person who's supposed to protect you and have your back and keep you safe fully dropped the ball on that. You were floundering. You were in the middle of the ocean by yourself, trying to figure out how to survive. At what point in time. Did you feel like what you had gone to do with the massages and taking the top off? Was there a turning point of this feels yucky, something is not right.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, when we were in the middle of the masage, she turned around and he had a towel on, and then his towel came off, so now he's naked, and that caught me off guard. But then I thought he was just going to get up and say thank you, and then he turns around. He's like, can you take your bra off? And I'm like no, because now I'm frozen. Now I'm like, oh my god, should I just do what he's asking me to do? Because I've been in a place with my stepfather where I didn't do where he wanted and then I got kicked and punched. So the last thing I wanted was to get physically abused in a how in a mansion where I'm in the third floor, I don't know where anything is. This is my first time there. The only person I truly trust there is my friend who I know, and I'm like, I can no longer trust her because she has now lied to me and put me in a situation where as women it's hard to say no sometimes as adult because we you know, if some of us are very strong, we can create boundaries and stand that ground and say no. But as a child, it's so hard to say no sometimes. And I like, when I talk to my daughter, I'm like, you have to say no, Like you have to be strong enough to say no. She's like, but I'm so embarrassed. I'm like, don't be embarrassed. There's nothing to be embarrassed about. I'm like, if it's if it's hard for you to say no, there's a reason why it's hard for you to say no. And there's a reason why you need to say no, Like there's a need to say no.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I got the chills. That's so true. It isn't true.

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Speaker 4: There's a reason, there's a reason, there's a reason, and that's when you really have to say, we have to empower our kids. It's not only women. It's not only our daughters, our son as well. They men have boundaries as well, and women sometimes mistaken those boundaries for you know, well, he's being he's being you know, aggressive, or or he's being you know, he's too jealous.

00:22:32
Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 4: Men sometimes have and it depends what they are, because sometimes men are that way. But men have boundaries too. We just have to know what they really are and if they make sense. But when he turned around and asked me to take off my bra, I told him no, and then he just like leaned up to go grab my boob, and I was like, it was so instant, it was like a slow like no, my hand just I was like, I'm not comfortable. And he turned around and he smiled and he said it's okay. It'll take some time, but she'll get comfortable with me.

00:23:04
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And what I worried? You were? Still? What age was this?

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Speaker 4: I was fourteen, fourteen. I just met him. This is my first time.

00:23:15
Speaker 1: So he jumped right into the here's my private parts, take your bra off mm hmm, and correct me if I'm wrong. You got out of this situation when you turned seventeen.

00:23:26
Speaker 4: Yes I did.

00:23:28
Speaker 2: I am so.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: Him saying you'll get comfortable because he knew. Of course, he knew. This was not his first rodeo. He was all about putting celebrities on the phone. He knew exactly what to do to start that grooming process, and let me.

00:23:48
Speaker 4: Tell you, he did it very well. When we left her. My girlfriend was very upset with me because I didn't play along. And even during she was upset, she called me a prude. She was like stop. She said it to be in Portuguese, you know, she was like, stop being a prude. And I was like, I was frozen at her. I was like I'm not I wanted to tell her, you know, what I've been through, Like what the fuck is your problem? And she's she comes to the other side and her and Jeffrey Epstein start to aggressively get into this like I don't even know what it was. It was just so aggressive, like it was like she was like pinching his nipples and he was like touching himself and it was like so and I just stood next to her like just frozen, frozen in time and just thinking like, oh my god, please don't do that to me.

00:24:41
Speaker 2: How old was she?

00:24:43
Speaker 4: She was a year or two years older than me, so she was also yeah, sixty, Yeah, she was sixteen seventeen. I think I was fourteen. She was sixteen at the time. Yeah.

00:24:53
Speaker 3: It's such a shame that, like, you know, it's almost like we have to train our bodies not to freeze because we've been in those situations where even if I'm terrified, right, I'm so scared because it's dark outside and I'm a single mom, and you know, I also have a thirteen year old and a sixteen year old or twelve year old and six year old. Your body just freezes and you want to like, you want to scream, you want to move, but you you're paralyzed. And it's such a shame that, like I wish, you know, there was an easier way to even teach our you know, our daughters, how to like get out of that, you know, And it's just by experience in training yourself, you know when they say jiu jitsu is a great form of self defense for these little kids, but you know, you being fourteen, you're not going to win, you know, in that situation.

00:25:43
Speaker 4: No, And it's it's sad, you know that us at our age, we freeze. I mean, I think my one of my friends said to me that she went to a party and one of her girlfriends came up to her and like danced uff behind her, you know, and she was like WHOA, Like I've never experienced this, and she stood there and I was like, why did you freeze? She's like I don't know. I was like, if that was a man, would you have been frozen? She was like, no, I would have not. I would have stood up to me. I said, but she's also disrespecting you. You should have not frozen. And she was like I did freeze. I was like, yeah, because we all do that sometimes because we just were not expecting it, and we're like, how do we respond to this? Like what message are we getting here? You know? I think it really it fucks with our brain, you know, and it's hard for us at this age. I can't imagine a twelve thirteen, fourteen, fifteen sixteen. It's like when Megan Kelly was like, well you know they were like fourteen sixteen and they looked older. Doesn't work like that.

00:26:44
Speaker 3: No, I mean anything, I want to go back between in those those three years, three or four years that you were with and you were having these experiences, did it get any worse than just having to massage him? Or was that pretty much like he had each girl doing very specific tasks for him.

00:27:12
Speaker 4: Well, it did get worse, right, I told her I wasn't going to go back. She tried to. She really did convince me. She was like, listen, like You're not going to meet anybody like this person is well connected, he knows everybody, like he has money. You're not going to meet anybody. You're from Brazil, you live in Astoria. She's like, you know, I live right next to Astoria. I know there's like nothing going on for you there. So I'm just telling you he is going to call and ask for you again, and most likely you will go back. And I was like, no, I won't. But you know, going back home and having that week where my mom is telling me I'm not going to be nothing, and you know that I needed to get up from school because I was like barely making to get up from school because I was so tired from working and just having her you know, just you know, bad really hard on everything that I didn't. You know, I remember something she always told me. She was like, you'll never be anything in America. You'll just be a better version of me. And that always that always stuck to me, Like I was like, oh my god, like and this is the thing, like it made me want to do so much more, but it wasn't the right things. Like it just made me want to win, win, win, and get you know, get a house and have her live in a house. You know. I feel like any any person that is struggling and see their parents and love their parents, they like first think about their parents. They're like, I want to do something for them, because you know, I always felt like, Wow, my mom, you know, brought me to this country. I have to make it, you know, And that that's what really brought me back to Jeffrey was eating those you know, we got to the point where we were eating the what is it called the cup noodles, the noodles cup? Is it the chicken?

00:28:52
Speaker 3: Oh?

00:28:53
Speaker 2: Cup of noodles?

00:28:54
Speaker 4: Cup of noodles. They were like, I think we're fifty cents at the time, me and my sister and my mom. My sister was already eating at the time, and that's what we would have for dinner, like and maybe we would have ham and cheese at the house and other than that, like we were really following apart. We had rented out all the rooms. We were living in one room, and it was just we were barely making my mom was barely making the rent, and I really wanted things to just go back to normal.

00:29:25
Speaker 3: Was your stepfather gone at this point?

00:29:27
Speaker 4: Yep? He was gone. Okay, he was very much gone and then he well, so then you know, Jeffrey did call my friend for me to go back, and I was like, I'll go back. I'm gonna go back, And in my head, I'm like, I'm gonna make this guy really understand what I'm going through. I'm gonna explain more to him that I already did that there's more than just like what he wants, and you know, like he can help me, like maybe he'll feel bad for me. And you know, when I went back, he was really nice. And this is what I tell everybody, like groomors are not going to be mean to you, like unless you're kidnapped in a room and he can fully abuse you and have full control. Right now, he's trying to gain control, and by gaining control, he's seeing that it didn't work when he asked me to take off my bra, so now he's like so nice to me. He didn't ask me to do anything. It was just a massage, and every time I went back it was like something new. It was like take off your bra, take off your pants, take off your underwear. And it got to the point where you know, I have to say this. I went to Virginia Guffrey's memorial here in West Palm Right, and I'm meeting all these survivors. Some of these survivors I knew didn't bring them to Jeffrey, because that was another thing about Jeffrey, which I'll get back.

00:30:49
Speaker 2: To a lot.

00:30:51
Speaker 4: Some of the Brazilian girls were there, and I was like, Oh my god, like I can't believe, Like I can't believe we're connected, and like you were right next to me and I didn't know about you, and I didn't know you were going to Jeffres Right. And these are people that I used to talk to all the time, right, And I'm listening to some of their stories, and some of these girls are telling me they're getting raped, and I'm like, holy shit, like they've been through hell and back. Just in my head, I'm like, you know, everything is all this information is coming into me. I'm listening to Amanda and Sky talk about Virginia and I'm bawling, like I did not even meet Virginia. Just her strength and her power is so resilient. And I had no idea. After twenty nineteen, after two thousand and eight, two times FBI came looking for me, I did not google or went on the Internet because there was no Google. I think in two thousand and eight, I did not look for Jeffrey Epstein. I did not know about the West Palm Beach. I did not know anything. I did not know about the I didn't know anything. I never looked into it. After two thousand and eight, I got really scared and I wanted nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. I'm listening to all this and I'm just heartbroken. I'm like, I can't fucking believe he did this, right. So I come back home and I call one of the survivors who I'm very close with, and I'm like, girl, you're not gonna believe it, like Jeffrey Epstein raped these women. So she's like so quiet on the phone, and I'm telling her about the memorial and I'm like, I'm just in shock, like he did this. And she's like, marine, are you okay? Are you like or is someone around you? Because I think she thought somebody was around me that I was like not wanting to be honest about what Jeffrey Epstein did, and I was like, yeah, I'm okay. I'm like no, I'm home alone, and she's like, you don't remember nothing. I said, I do remember. She was like, you don't remember that. Jeffrey Epstein used to put us in the room, three or four of us, and he used to PLoP you on top of him and rape you in front of us and tell us like, this is how you're supposed to be doing things to make me happy. This is what a good girl does. She's like, we used to be like three or four of us in the room watching you. And I'm like what. She's like yeah, She's like, oh my god. She's like, you don't remember this. I just every time I say this, I get chills because I think trauma just completely blocked that out of my head.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: Of course, you it's survival. The brain is such an insane thing. What it the length it will go to. It knows that you are in survival mode. It will disassociate you from an experience like that just so you can go on with your life the best that you can.

00:33:34
Speaker 2: It's it's wild, insane how it works.

00:33:38
Speaker 4: It's so true. People ask me like, why did you keep going back. I'm like, I just wanted to survive. I just wanted to take care of my mom. My stepfather eventually moved back home. My mom put him back there. I had to move out with a boyfriend who started to who had a great family. He did not need to move out. He started to sell drugs so he can so he can pay for the bills. I'm going to Jeffrey Epstein's house. He does not know that I'm working at night at that point, and we're just in survival mode. You know this, this boyfriend of mine, who was, you know, seventeen at the time. I must have been fifteen when I moved out. He did not need to move out, and he did not definitely did not need to sell drugs, and you know, unfortunately he got deported, but it was the best way for him because he's a very successful person today and married. But you know, I just look at it, and people when they ask me, I'm like, have you ever been in survival mode? You will do anything to survive? Like me as a mom, if God forbid, anything happens and I don't have money to support my daughter, I will go above and beyond for anything that my daughter needs. I will never put her in charge of, you know, the bills or the I would never even tell her. I would just be like, don't worry about it be a kid, go be happy and go to school and do your cheer because that's what she loves. Because I guess that's like the popular thing now.

00:34:56
Speaker 2: Oh the kids love cheer right now.

00:34:58
Speaker 4: I mean, it's gonna make us broke, I think at this point.

00:35:01
Speaker 3: But Marina, I have to say something though. You guys kept you guys keep using the word survival. But let's not forget because it's really important that the listeners it's brainwashed. You were brainwashed first, and then now you're just surviving, so you're not even operating in a conscious state. You're unconscious moving forward in a way of life that feels like survival. This is just my opinion, but I really I don't want you to like just use that word survival because to me, it feels so much deeper than just that.

00:35:32
Speaker 4: I think you're definitely right, and I don't think we looked at that when we are. It's something that Hayley Robinson said, and she said in one of the press conferences, she said, we're traumatized. We are not stupid, you know, and we've been traumatized, We've been through all that, and we've been brainwashed. Because at that point Jeffrey Epstein was putting all of us against one another to compete on who would bring him the most girls, who would be the best, and who would be a good girl for him and would listen to him, because he was all about controlling things, and when he needn't have control, he did not like it.

00:36:12
Speaker 3: I'll tell you how much did you meet Maxwell at that point? Along those three years, I.

00:36:17
Speaker 4: Did meet Maxwell, And it was very weird how I met Maxwell because I was with a Jane Doe who Jeffrey Epstein was absolutely in love. But this girl was also in survival mode. Brazilian immigrant, didn't have her parents sending all the money back to Brazil, her parents not asking where she's getting this money. She's eighteen at the time, doing her modeling gig, working also side with me at this Greek place that we worked at nighttime. We were selling flowers, and Jeffrey Epstein met her and he fell in love with her, but she would not want to go there by herself, so she would I would go with her, and he would get upset because he didn't want me there. So he allowed me to hang out in the house and wander around and she would be in the room. But one day, he asked for me to stay in the room, which was weird because he never asked me to stay in the room while she was there. And when he asked me to stay in the room, he was like, I want to go into my bedroom, which he didn't do it either with myself or any of my friends. And we went into the bedroom and he had these white sheets, and I remember laying in the bed and going like, Wow, this is a real comfortable bed. And look at the things that are going through my head, you know, because you know, again, I'm living by myself at this point. Now I don't have the best bed, and I don't have the best apartment. And I just want to remind people, you know, I'm fifteen and a half and I have my own apartment with my name on it. I still have the least today. Literally like that apartment, I would turn on the water and I would get shocked.

00:37:52
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was so bad.

00:37:55
Speaker 4: It was like we had rats everywhere. I was like, oh my god. But you know, again, I'm in survival mode. I was. It just this is what you go through, you know, And I just think that we don't we don't. I don't think about these things that I was getting shocked with the water. I could have possibly died. Every time I would turn it out.

00:38:13
Speaker 2: It was like, it's just like your dorm. Yeah, that was your dorm, right, it was.

00:38:19
Speaker 4: So I bring this girl and he's like, let's go into the bedroom, and you know, there's these white sheets, and that's all I could really remember. It was like being in this bed with these white sheets, like this cotton feeling. And he said it was me and this Jane Doe and him, and he says, I have a friend that's going to be joining us, and she walks in and he never introduced us to her. Now, I have seen pictures of Gilay with him and his house and me and my friends, and he always had a picture with a little girl, like an eight nine year old girl. And we always used to say, Jeffrey definitely has a family and is lying to us, But like, how is he so open about letting us come in here when he has a whole family. So one day we asked him, We're like, do you have a wife and a kid? He's like, absolutely not, and we're like thank god, because if you didn't, that'd be a problem. But he never said he had a wife. And a kid. And we're just like, that's so weird because like we just figured he would have a wife and a kid. I don't know why. I guess as kids, you just always I guess you jumped to that conclusion. So Glaine walks in. At the time, I didn't know who she was. Now they both raped both they both raped me and this girl, right, But I always want to come to her. This girl is so traumatized by this. She has never spoken about it. She has never come after any little gay. She has done absolutely nothing.

00:39:46
Speaker 2: So even now to this day, she remains quiet.

00:39:51
Speaker 4: She remains very silent. And her reason why is because she's scared that her husband will leave her. And I said, and I tell her all the time, I'm like why, why do you feel like that? But she also has her son has an autoimmune disease and he's not going to live a very long time. So I kind of understand. She's like, I have to be there for my kids, like my family are like everything to me, and this is what's important to me. And I'm like I get it, like I respect it, but I always want to talk to her, like, hey, I want details of like what happened that day to us in that bedroom. But she doesn't even like to hear the word Jeffrey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I only realized it was Glaine in two thousand and like twenty or twenty one because I saw her, you know, in the news and all that, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, that's the woman that Jeffrey brought into the room. And you know, because he never introduced her as like this is my friend Gallaine, like this is you know, he just she just came into the room.

00:40:57
Speaker 3: I want to fast forward a little bit and talk about what's happening now. I've fortunately, and unfortunately can't help myself, but I have read a lot of the stuff that's going on on the DJ website, and I've read some pretty horrific thing that has really shaken me to my core. And you know, I've called all on said like this is the most insane things. Have you had an opportunity to read some of the other the three million, I mean.

00:41:28
Speaker 4: Not the whole three million, but I you know, being in the political side now, which we wanted to be bipartisan, we kind of have to keep up with all this all these news, including Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton's deposition that took me about I only got to Bill Clinton, which I only got to two and a half hours. But I have to get on it because these are things that we do talk about. So yes, I am very familiar with the three million files, but not the whole three million files. And whoever'sday they've been through three million files is lying.

00:42:06
Speaker 1: There was a part of the files where they talked about a calendar girl party and there are names listed of who was there for you and what you experienced. Do you think that every person that attended any party or gathering of Jeffrey Epstein knew good and goddamn well who that man was and what he was capable of one.

00:42:29
Speaker 4: Hundred percent got one hundred percent. I mean, we don't have to be it's you know, like Jeffrey Epstein's we don't have to be a brain surgeon because he told us that we don't have two guys. This is not science rocket like. We have to understand there are six pages of allegations and we have to go back to Maria Farmer in nineteen ninety six. Her allegations at the time were just allegations what now are very much proven to be true. And it has taken us two decades to understand this and realize that it's not a hoax.

00:43:03
Speaker 3: I have not read them, which I would like to amber.

00:43:07
Speaker 1: You said the one that you read the measuring and the list of names on the side, and you asked me about this person, do you still talk to them? And I read it and I said, well I did until now.

00:43:20
Speaker 2: You know what's so crazy you guys?

00:43:22
Speaker 3: And now I remember this is a perfect example of everything that I read. It was so disturbing that I actually my brain just forgot blocked it. I am so disgusted.

00:43:32
Speaker 4: What are we doing about it?

00:43:33
Speaker 2: What are we doing about anything about it? And that's the sick part.

00:43:37
Speaker 1: We are watching the news and who is it? Prince Andrew arrested on like his fifty something birthday at five in the fucking morning. Meanwhile, the one of the biggest pieces of shit is running the free world and we're not doing a damn thing. We have been hearing about these files for years on end. We have women who have band together to finally share their story.

00:44:08
Speaker 4: We have everybody doing everything around the world. We have Norway taken down Prime Minister, we have Norway taking down asking Princess I was just there, Princess Meta why she was in contact with Epstein. We have monarchies being takeover taken down, and we Americans are who is the United States of America who believes in justice and the land of free We are doing absolutely nothing.

00:44:36
Speaker 1: It makes me so terrified to rate kids in this country.

00:44:42
Speaker 4: I just said it. I was like, oh my god, I just said it in Laura coachs. I was like, the question is do we even want to be here anymore? This was the place where everybody wanted to be and now it's coming down to I go to Europe and I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, this is where we need to be. They have the best healthcare system, They have real food. We don't even have real food here anymore. We don't like, whether we want to believe it or not, cheesus, fake meet us, fake. Everything is fake here, and if you're buying the real stuff, we don't even know if we're buying real groceries anymore.

00:45:12
Speaker 1: Well, because we're being lied to about everything. There's not one there's not one thing that people are being honest about.

00:45:19
Speaker 2: And what makes me the most sick.

00:45:21
Speaker 1: Is that it has been years on end of the rich and powerful trying to desensitize us to be okay with this shit, and now here we are and no one's okay with it, but nothing's being done, so we're being forced to be okay with it.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: Everyone is afraid.

00:45:39
Speaker 3: That's why, because of the powers that be, the fact that we were able to cover up all these names, and by the way, the list of names that are still redacted.

00:45:49
Speaker 1: It is utter insanity. I am of the mindset and I wholeheartedly believe in this, and I'm not just saying this to make anyone feel better. A day will come, and I know that it's so hard to think that way because you were directly involved, Marina, and you have direct trauma. I know in my heart that what's done in the dark will always come to the light, and these people are going to have the hardest and longest fall from grace and it's going to be fucking beautiful when it happens.

00:46:25
Speaker 4: I most certainly agree with you.

00:46:28
Speaker 1: I'm just in awe of all of you, Marina, and I am so grateful that you came on this podcast. The fact that you can like make jokes and laugh talk about your sweet daughter.

00:46:42
Speaker 2: I'm just please never shut the fuck up.

00:46:46
Speaker 4: I won't shut the fuck up. You know. The reason why I speak is obviously I want to bring awareness, but I also want to explain to people that, like I don't live my life every day thinking about what happens to me in the past, there is a healing process women and men that have been abused. I always want to give them this side of me because sometimes when I do different platforms, I did one yesterday and we were taking pictures and it was like me being sad. I'm like, but this is not who I am. This is who I was. Who I am today is a woman that wants to represent other women and men who have been abused and say, listen, we're not going to live in the past. We have a life to live. We will be living this life like it's the last life out because I do believe like there is recarnation. I believe there like you said it earlier, like you know, this is it right here, and we have to live it every day. It's like it's last, and we have to live this life like it's last. We can't just be like, well I have another life come, it's recarnation. It doesn't work like that. We have to live it, and we have to enjoy these even sweet and bitter moments, because it is part of what shapes us in life later on. I always think of it. When I was going through all these things, I was like, why God, Why me? Why me? Why me? And I always tell people if you are going through and abuse, you are going through something you know in your life. I think the best thing to do, because obviously I'm not a therapist and I don't have all the right answers, just know that God does give you what you can handle. He won't give it to you if you can, and it will be a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know when it is for that person, but there was a light at the end of the tunnel for me, and I have to say it was the best thing ever. It made me a strong person. It made me have confidence, It made me believe that I do have self worth. It made me understand that it doesn't fucking matter what people think. That's why I spoke. It took me so long to speak, and when I did speak, everyone was like, everyone's going to say this. Everyone's gonna say you're whore. Everyone's gonna say I'm like, I don't give a shit. I'm tired of living how other people want me to live. I'm done with that, and nobody should do that. Everyone needs to follow their heart. And I have come to a conclusion where I don't care about what people think about me. I am here to empower every person, man, woman, a boy, a girl. It doesn't matter what you are. Speak about your abuse, because it's not only for you, but this perpetrator, this person who's abusing you will continue to abuse, so you do need to speak about it. So I always always encourage girls, boys, men, women. Doesn't matter how old you are, it is your story is just as important as the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein.

00:49:28
Speaker 1: What a grateful way to end this. You are an incredible woman. I'm so grateful you came on an Unlikely Affair.

00:49:36
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you always real lazy.

00:49:38
Speaker 2: You all get the justice that you deserve.

00:49:42
Speaker 4: We will continue to fight.

00:49:43
Speaker 2: That's going to happen, Yes, it will. Best day you guys.

00:49:48
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of an Unlikely Affair. We're going to catch you next week.

00:49:52
Speaker 3: Bye,