Packers-Lions Week 4 TNF Recap

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Thirty five yards GoF deep again wide open, making the grab and taking it and.

00:00:06
Speaker 2: Is shak Brown second in goal.

00:00:10
Speaker 1: Id's gonna keep it himself touchdown Green Bay.

00:00:18
Speaker 2: Here it is again. You heard that talking about it. Here's the foul on Walker, but you talk about a late flag.

00:00:28
Speaker 1: Thirty four to twenty. The Lions owned the NFC North Detroit takes care of business in Lambeau, their fourth straight win against Attackers, the second straight time they put a herd on him on national television. These are new times and you can tell that a Packers fan, big Funk Randy Javez put that highlight package together because he included a Packers' penalty to finish it. That led to the game ceiling touchdown by David Montgomery, his third of the night. I'm Greg Rosenthal talking TNF with a new friend of the pod. Very excited to welcome JP Acosta to the show. He does great workover at sp Nation.

00:01:16
Speaker 2: Jp.

00:01:16
Speaker 1: We got a pretty gun one for you for your first time on the Round the NFL Podcast.

00:01:21
Speaker 3: Welcome, thanks for having me. This is a fun one because this is right up my alley. This is this is a Lions offensive line run run the rock, established that defensive lines playing great. This is right up my alley.

00:01:35
Speaker 1: Wow, what you're at, You're like, you're at dight, Dan Campbell, tough guy. I want to run the ball. How many times did he do it tonight? Forty three times? And just dominate the line of scrimmage. That's your game.

00:01:47
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. Football is one and lost on the line of scrimmage, and Dan Campbell made sure to put an emphasis on that going into his game.

00:01:56
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.

00:01:57
Speaker 1: Although I'm gonna start on the defensive side, and they won it up front there too. We can go in a lot of directions here, and we will. We're gonna go over this game. It was a lot of fun if you're like me and have been loving this Lion's rise over the last two seasons. But I think we got to start with the first twenty two plays that the Packers ran on offense, which got us almost a halftime. Those twenty two plays, JP gained one get into negative yard. They did not gain a yard in their first twenty two plays. At that point in the game, it was twenty seven to three. The game was all but over. The Packers did what they've been doing the last couple weeks made a little interesting in the second half, But tell me from your advantage point what you saw what they did in that first half defensively, that just made the Packers look like they didn't even belong on the field with Detroit.

00:03:00
Speaker 3: It was so interesting just for a Packers offensive line that did not allow a lot of pressure through the first few games this season just looked completely overwhelmed against a Detroit Lions front that we remember a couple of weeks ago did not look that great against the Seattle Seahawks, Like this is a this is the second week out of two weeks set. The Lions have looked really good up front, and I think it kind of has to do with the development and the growth of the young guys they have on that side of the ball. We all know about Aiden Hutchinson, the way that he's playing to start the season. One of the things I've enjoyed that they're doing is moving him inside. You just be basically match up hunt find the best way to get your guys isowed on their weakest links, and that's something that the Lions are doing right now. Ali McNeil is playing fantastic football to start the season at defensive tackle. But it's not even those guys. You're getting good play from Benito Jones, Isaiah Bugs doing really good things in the run game. So basically you've taken the Packers entire outside zone boot action. You negated that because they cannot run the ball. So you're forcing Jordan Love to essentially become a primary drop back passer, forcing him to make the throws. And then on the back end, you know, those guys are playing really well. I think that Jordan Love sailed a few passes early. It's still very clear that he still needs time to actually like play the games, to get more, get his feet wet a little more. But it's really just the domination up front. It's been a long time since I've seen the Packers look so overwhelmed up front, especially by a Detroit Lions football team.

00:04:43
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more because you're right, even in this four game windustry, it's the Packers offensive line has mostly been a mainstay. Tonight, they were without back to Ari again. He was placed on injured reserve actually since we last taped a podcast, so that means he's he's kinda miss at least a few more games. That's a big, big letdown for them and raises a whole lot of questions about his contract and all this other stuff we don't need to get into. They're also without el Elton Jenkins and you mentioned it, and this is why I wanted you on JP goes deep, check out it, check them out on X on Twitter, and he's breaking down a Lee McNeil earlier this week, who is coming off a big time game and he's just thrown out Bugs and I'll throw out you know, Kaminsky had a nice stop on that two point conversion and they're winning their on one match with Charles Harris had to play. I mean they Isaiah Bugs wasn't even active a couple of weeks ago. So that's the depth that I think Campbell and Brad Holmes when they're putting this team together, really wanted. And what's impressed me in this three and one start, and I do want to stay on the defense for now, is they've had injuries. They've had injuries on both sides, but they've especially had injuries on defense, and they've kind of built a roster that can withstand it. And they had one bad week really against Seattle where they got it handed to them for the most part defensively, but other than that, man, this is this is a different defense. Those guys are tough upfront. They're gonna make it very tough to run the ball. And they barely even tried with with Aaron Jones and aj Dillon and by the time they tried, the game was essentially over. And they've been able to withstand injuries on the back end. And that's impressive. That that's team building and that's depth because they don't really have superstars.

00:06:27
Speaker 2: They just have good players.

00:06:29
Speaker 1: Like Derek Barnes has been flashing to me all season like he's not a guy I ever really paid that much attention to, but he's been a great run stopper. And just say each spot, it's like they have guys that make sense exactly.

00:06:41
Speaker 3: It's more they're more they're not individual stars like you said, but they're much more than the some they're they're basically they work as a team. You know, I think the team defense up front has been so played so well. I know it's against Atlanta. The Atlanta game was really a huge test for them going into this game because both these teams want to run the ball, they want to be physical, with you up front, and the Lions basically just lined up and kick their butts the entire game. It was it was wild to see this team just essentially go in and be like, Yeah, we're just gonna We're gonna line up and you're not gonna be able to block us. And like you said, Derek Barnes playing great football. I think Jack Campbell has had really nice moments in the run and pass game. They lined them up on the edge on early downs because you know, with James Houston out for a long time with an ankle injury, they lined Jack Campbell up down on the edge on early downs, so I thought was kind of interesting. They did it a little bit last week. I think it's kind of due to their lack of depth out on the edge, but I was like, okay, I'll put a little pin in that. You know. Maybe maybe I mean Jack Campbell's like six five, two forty, maybe this will be a thing that they just keep doing. But they're working with the pieces that they have and they're turning it into a machine. Though. Front.

00:08:01
Speaker 1: It's like what you want out of team building because they stuck with Aaron Glenn, who's always thought to be a really promising defensive coordinator, a guy they really believed in in the results because of the roster and because they were putting it together. Weren't really there the first couple of years, and you're seeing it to come together.

00:08:16
Speaker 2: So I love when that happens.

00:08:17
Speaker 1: This is year three of their program and they've pretty much done it, and yeah, it's funny. Actually, remember when they call I remember the call where they call Campbell when he was drafted. They actually ask him like if he would ever want to line up as you know, you want to line up on the edge a little bit.

00:08:33
Speaker 2: You think you can do that, And he said, I'll do whatever.

00:08:36
Speaker 1: So they're putting into motion, they get creative, and I guess let's slip it to the Packers offense.

00:08:44
Speaker 2: Love.

00:08:45
Speaker 1: His experience, to me, is a little bit like the Packers in general this season, Like they are Jordan Love.

00:08:51
Speaker 2: They're like all or nothing.

00:08:52
Speaker 1: They're like either falling down seventeen nothing against the Saints or they're coming back in this game. You know, they were pretty good in the third course this game. They made it interesting. There was a moment there where they had a two point conversion that would have cut it to one score. So so that they got back into it against the Falcons. The Packers h were way ahead and then they blew that lead in the fourth quarter.

00:09:16
Speaker 2: And that's that's Jordan Love to be right now.

00:09:18
Speaker 1: Everything is either like a big time throw and you're just like, wow, that that is impressive, And when he runs, I think, wow, he's a better runner than I expected. But the other stuff is just like the throws are either way off or it's you saw tonight when he's really faced a good front for the first time under pressure. It was just taking a little too long for the Gears to grind and and just taking some bad sacks.

00:09:42
Speaker 3: It was. It was an up and down performance for Jordan Love. I think there was some stuff they kind of did pretty well. I think in the second half they started to put together some drives. He started to play a little better under pressure. But I think an even larger issue than Jordan Love is kind of just I hate to say the offense in general, but you know at halftime AJ Dillon was third on the team and routes run like that's an issue for this team going forward. You cant have AJ Dillon out there running all these routes. Aaron Aaron Jones usage has been weird for the entire season. I know he's been injured, but seven snaps, five routes run at halftime in one target, that's not gonna get it done. For the best offensive player on your team, you have to find a way to consistently get him involved. I know that the run game wasn't working as much because the offensive line wasn't as good, but you have to find a way to get him involved. You have to find a way to make it a little easier for this young quarterback.

00:10:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'll give laflaur the benefit of the doubt or with usage, because yeah, Jones was a little in and out in that first week too, and then he missed a couple week and maybe they were just easing him back into the lineup tonight. Christian Watson also returned, which was a good sign. Didn't get a chance to make many catches. Four targets, two catches twenty five yards. He did have a touchdown on a good play call right at the goal line where he was wide open, and had one other play. I tried to keep an eye on him because I'm watching Do you watch the Prime Vision?

00:11:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know you do. You're a dork. I love it.

00:11:19
Speaker 1: I mean I love it like I wish I wish I had that option for every game, but I especially like it on these Thursday nights, just as a changeup so you can watch the route. Sometimes you lose track of what's going on upfront. But I was trying to watch Watson and to me, he looked good. And it's just crazy, though you're counting on this guy from where was it North Dakota State that he's like your true one with the most experienced he's like a second second year player. I think Dobbs has looked good this year, and Jaydeen Reid made it a couple of plays. But I just think this team is going to be better in December offensively than they are right now.

00:11:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's going to take a lot of time, especially if Botiari is indeed done for the season, because that's a massive piece that you were hoping. Like the optimism for the Packers going into the season was Okay, everybody on the offensive line is going to be healthy, and now four games into the season, Jenkins has hurt Baktyaris on ir and so those are two immediately out the window.

00:12:16
Speaker 2: So you just have you heard anything on Baktyari or something? Is there?

00:12:20
Speaker 1: Is there a is there talk that he might be out for more because this this news happened today and I was surprised to see it.

00:12:26
Speaker 3: So I saw he was on IR. I saw they had he went under arthroscopic knee surgery, which I mean, if you want to hold him out for four games after knee surgery, like, I don't know if he's coming back, I really don't. It's the whole Baktyari thing has been very weird. I think he's been adamant about not playing on turf, which yeah, I understand not wanting to play on turf, but he's also the fourth highest paid offensive tackle in the NFL, so you need we got to actually have him playing games. And he's played one of the first four games of the season. That's not a great number. So it's just it's just been a very weird, weird time for David Botiari posts like twenty.

00:13:09
Speaker 1: Twenty, Okay, I am looking and I see I missed this rap sheet. Our guy at in NFL Networking, Rapports, said the latest surgery is probably a precursor for a bigger surgery later and there's all sorts of cap implications, and they're gonna have to eat a dead cap it if he's not on their roster next year.

00:13:29
Speaker 2: No matter what. It's unfortunate.

00:13:31
Speaker 1: You hate to see a guy who was on a Hall of Fame trajectory and actually will still even have a case for it, really have his career cut short. But for this year, man, that's gonna hurt the Packers, who until this.

00:13:45
Speaker 2: Week hadn't really played a good pass rush.

00:13:48
Speaker 1: And that's why those those numbers, including Jordan's love numbers, I was was kind of looking a little side eye just because they hadn't played a team. They played the Saints last week, but I don't think of the Saints as elite pass rush. I think of them as a defense. But this week you saw it kind of come home to Russ. Let's slip it to the other side. Let's talk about some Ben Johnson. Give me your Ben Johnson take, because I thought, like most games, he had just a couple of.

00:14:12
Speaker 2: Plays in this game.

00:14:13
Speaker 1: I love the overall philosophy, but a couple of individual plays in this game where it's just like he won and he got his team points.

00:14:20
Speaker 3: One of my favorite play calls that they had is the Khalif Raymond reverse where Jared Goff ends up getting steamrolled by this edge rusher. I think it's Kingsley ingenbarre, but it ends up going for thirty yards because everybody else on the other side of the field near Piney Sewell leading out in front of you. That's what Johnson can do. They have their bread and butter up front with the offensive line. That's going to raise the floor of this offense. I say it a lot about the Eagles offensive line, but the Lions are right there as well. That is a game changing positional group. They can slow a game down if they want. They can completely flip the momentum of a game if they choose to, and they did it tonight. I think the Pack have been really bad defending the run out of their base personnel this year, and the Lions was like, yeah, we're just gonna get big and you're not gonna be able to stop us. They dominated in the run game. It was great to see Jonah Jackson play as well as he did. Taylor Decker on one leg still looked really well, and Pinay Sewell. I feel like every time they need a big run or they need a big play, you're run behind fifty eight and it works most of the time. But you still see what Ben Johnson can do in terms of coaxing a little more aggression out of Jared Goff. He gets them to kind of play a little bit outside of his shell. It was a lot of quick passing still, but you could see the gears kind of turning for Jared goffeel like, Okay, I can hit this throw down field if I want it. He's all I said on Twitter. He's like the king of the twelve yard dig and that's what they've built the offense around. They know that that's his comfort, that's his bread and butter. Build it around him.

00:15:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to get to what you said on Johnson and second, but while we're on golf, Look, you had a bad interception early, quickly bounced back, had some really nice accurate throws. One of those digs I think it was to Laporte, a nice touch pass down the sideline to Reynolds where Reynolds made a couple of just fantastic catches in this game. They're just getting contributions out of everyone. But the one thing I've noticed, and I know Jared Goff has worked on this and it's only gonna work so much. But you are getting like one pretty good second reaction play a week from Jared Goff, and it's like, Okay, I see that, Jared Goff because I didn't even get you weren't even getting that one, I don't think in Los Angeles, and he's worked on it. Where in one of them, I'm trying to think which play was it the play to a play where he's rolling to Reynolds where he got It's like, you're getting kind of one, like the play breaks down and Jared Goff makes a play a week and that I'll take it.

00:16:51
Speaker 2: I'll take it.

00:16:52
Speaker 3: Yeah it was. It was a rollout where he's getting pressured, rolls to his left, flips back and he throws laporta and I was like.

00:17:01
Speaker 1: That and he was accurate, and yeah, once in a while you'll see you'll see him check it down a little earlier than you would maybe want. But that is a small price to pay for the way he's playing overall, and they're not asking him to do much.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: You mentioned it.

00:17:19
Speaker 1: I love the way you put that that they can slow the game down. And then yeah, I watched that Seahawks Lions game and they can speed it up to when when they need to, and that, man, that's a dangerous thing to be as an offense that you can play any type of way, depending on what type of game it is, what situation you're in. And I was surprised someone tweeted out I think it was Pat Dlarready at the end of the game. They came into this game thirtieth and expected pass rate like in neutral situations, which means they are among the most run heavy teams in the league, which is surprising to me. That's not their profile, and that that's going up because they just ran the ball forty three times. I mean, I'd like to split up the carries a little more evenly, just because thirty two carries for David Montgomery coming off a couple of weeks injured, like that's not good for his long term health. And Jamir gum Gibbs was running well, so I'd like to even that out. But I can't fault them. It was working that they were moving the ball in Montgomery was running well.

00:18:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the thirty two carries for David Montgomery might stun a lot of people and disappoint a lot of Jamir Gibbs fantasy owners. But it makes a lot of sense for this game. For this game, Detroit knew that they were going to be the more physical team up front.

00:18:30
Speaker 2: I hear you.

00:18:31
Speaker 1: But when they're up by seventeen late, just give the last five to Gibbs.

00:18:35
Speaker 2: You're asking for an injury there, But I hear you. Continue.

00:18:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, it felt like late in the game they were kind of getting Montgomery like, hey, we'll throw you a little bit of a bone in here, we'll get you over one hundred. But David Montgomery right now is the more physical runner between the tackles. That's where you know you can beat this Packers team. This Packers team for having seven eight however many first round picks they have on defense, the spine of that defense is really bad up the middle. And it stunned me because you have guys like Kenny Clark, who is a very very good player. You have Lucas van Nessa's played made a lot of really nice moments in the run and pass game. Rashan Gary still looks awesome, but.

00:19:18
Speaker 2: He looked good tonight. He's look good all year.

00:19:20
Speaker 3: This looks fantastic, But for some reason, this team is always bad against the run, and it goes back to I mean, you gotta look at coaching at that point. But the Lions know so well, like their bread and butter is built up front, and they can run every concept in the book. They mixed in outside zone with counter power. They do everything. They throw the oral kitchen sink at you because the offensive line can do everything.

00:19:51
Speaker 2: This is like just the Lions dream.

00:19:54
Speaker 1: Like last year on this podcast, we made them the team of the Around the NFL Podcast, and I said right afterwards, like right after it ended, it ended on such a high, big funk.

00:20:07
Speaker 2: I know you got the the sting back there that like I wanted to run it back. Let's just go.

00:20:12
Speaker 1: Let's just go a second time around, make them the team of the Around the NFL Podcast a second year.

00:20:17
Speaker 2: So we've never done that before, we might have to do it again.

00:20:26
Speaker 1: And even if we don't, I don't care. I'm going to en enjoy the journey. It's fun and you're seeing like really smart, smart guys who build a team in a certain way but also coach the team in a certain way, and and guys out there just playing with all sorts of energy and yeah, Ben Jonson like that that early touchdown to Ammon Ross Saint Brown.

00:20:47
Speaker 2: They knew that what was coming.

00:20:48
Speaker 1: They knew they were gonna burn Razulo Douglas on that play, and they did it, and that is awesome to see. One thing that was a little concerning. Brian Branch left this game. Had an ankle injury that look quite serious. He was carted off, he taped it up, returned to the game, but then left again at the end.

00:21:06
Speaker 2: So hopefully he's okay.

00:21:08
Speaker 1: But otherwise, Luke Musgrave had a concussion in this game for the Packers. I hated to see that. Sam Laporta winning that kind of rookie tight end battle. Another nice game for him, fifty six yards. To talk to me on Laporta before we get out of here, because man, I was I've been, I was honking. I have a text thread with Danny Kelly over at the Ringer that is just about Sam Laporta, because I was so big on Sam Laporta, and like at this point I'm texting saying like I'm going to be texting you when he's making his speech in Canton. That's the trajectory he's on right now.

00:21:40
Speaker 3: With the way that Sam Laporta has played for the first four weeks. I have never ever, ever been more convinced that Brian Farrens and the Iowa offense is offence literally an a fence to everything in football. Now you're not able to get that guy more involved or get that guy more targets. Is wild to me what the Mayas have done, and it's so cool just I think before the game, Next Gen Stats tweeted out that most of Sam Laporter's production has come on in breaking routes. They know where his bread and butter is made. After the catch, get the ball in his hands and let them run. And that's really what they're letting them do. You know, they've basically created another underneath intermediate area target for Jared Goff, but this time you've given him a bigger body, someone who can move after the catch. The play that Golf threw to him over the middle, I think the Packers were a man coverage. He beats linebacker, catches the ball, then breaks the linebacker's tackle, runs for another twenty yards. That's what Sam Laporter can do, and that's what he's shown that he's been able to do. It provides not only a safety blanket for Jared Goff, underneath, but another level of explosiveness that I really thought the Lions wouldn't be able to have with Jamison Williams out for the first six game this season, But it just so happens that they have a two hundred and fifty pounds tight end who can also provide some of that.

00:22:57
Speaker 1: Oh they needed it too, because you just look to you know, Reynolds is doing a nice job and Khalif Raman will pop up for a player two, but it felt like they needed someone else to throw to, and Laporta has just stepped right into that role. And I know Gibbs fantasy owners are frustrated, but I think his days will come, and the way they're using it, it's hard to really fault him. And even tonight he picked up two key third downs, one as a receiver, one as a runner where he's running through that first tackle too most of the time. So I like his day will come. I'm not worried about him and where they took him there. They're loving life. I'm loving having you on JP. We gotta do this again. You're the man staying up late in Orlando? What's the Orlando NFL seee?

00:23:43
Speaker 2: Like? Like, who do people even root for in Orlando.

00:23:46
Speaker 3: So it's a real it's a very peatri dish thing, you know, I see, I see a lot of Buccaneers fans. Tampa is like an hour hour and a half away, so there's a lot of Buccaneers fans. Not a lot of Jacksonville fans considering, but it's very heavy Tampa. Every every Tampa game is broadcast locally, and then they also get the Jaguars games. But they're very much Tampa fans. And you know, with UCF being here, it's a whole lot of a whole lot of nights and Buccaneers, which does not bode well for my FAU fandom and the Jacksonville Jaguars.

00:24:20
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, you are, mister f A.

00:24:22
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna be a little bit of a comdown, I would think after the year you've had.

00:24:27
Speaker 3: It's been a little bit of a comdown. You know. You ride the high the Final four and next thing you know, Clemson is blasting your favorite team on the ACC network. It's it's a little rough.

00:24:39
Speaker 2: But again, check out JP. He's doing great stuff at eSPI Nation.

00:24:44
Speaker 1: You can check them out on Twitter at Acosta thirty two Underscore JP, appreciate you, appreciate the analysis, and appreciate you breaking records. You gotta, you gotta be the youngest person on the show that we've ever had because you just graduated like two years ago.

00:25:02
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.

00:25:04
Speaker 1: Like I said, thanks again to JP. That is it for us tonight. A great night if you're a fan of the Detroit Lions, great night really for America in general. We will be back on Sunday with the flagship show. Until then, heed the car.

00:25:38
Speaker 4: Hey, everyone's Scott Hansen here. And this is NFL Plus where you can catch every play all in one place. You get access to live local and primetime games on your mobile phone and tablet. That's every in market game with you on the go.

00:25:53
Speaker 2: I never knew that was the thing.

00:25:54
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and here's my favorite part. You can stream NFL Red Zone live every Sunday. What are you waiting for?

00:26:01
Speaker 3: Right now? Right now?

00:26:03
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