All About Suffering – The First (and Hardest) Truth AKA Anicca’s Ugly Cousin | Ajahn Kovilo

Namote
sama
bakawato arhat
sama buddhasa.
So there is a teaching which asks
what is it that obscures
duca or obscures
suffering or stress? Why is it that we
don't see our discomfort, our
unhappiness, our our pain more clearly?
Does anybody have any ideas, thoughts?
Why don't we understand suffering
better?
Please
turning away. All right, I will take
that one more denial.
You are both right. The answer that's
given is in this particular text, the
commentary, it says that it's because of
movement of the body that we don't see
suffering. We deny and we push away and
we just don't want to see it. So when
you come to a meditation and make this
determination okay for however long and
be realistic with yourself but however
long I'm want to sit okay I'm not I'm
going to try not to move my body and
then you'll see if it's longer than you
usually sit you'll see this okay things
come up things come up so that's just by
way of introduction today I'm going to
talk about duca duka which means uh it's
most often translated as suffering.
Other times translated as
unsatisfactoriness
or stress or even a new translation I
heard is unfinishedness.
Unfinishedness.
So to do that before I go more deeply
into the Buddhist side of that just talk
a little bit more about the day. So as I
mentioned earlier, the most common name
for today is Holy Saturday. Holy
Saturday. So in most Christian
denominations, Holy Saturday is the
Saturday after Good Friday, which is the
day when Jesus was crucified and when he
died, and Easter Sunday, which is the
day when he was resurrected. So you have
this day in between, this in between
space
where he's in the tomb and we don't know
what is going on. He's gone through this
intense period of suffering, basically
crucifixion, the apex of human suffering
uh inflicted on on a body.
So he's going through this and yeah the
day is commemorated the whole week in
many Christian traditions is known as
holy week. So every day has its own name
and today is by terms known as holy
Saturday this in between interim time or
glorious Saturday or Saturday of joy,
Saturday of light, the great Sabbath,
great Saturday. So those are all
pointing to this in between period when
we're actually leaning forward to the
next day. We're all anticipating the joy
that's going to happen in the next
chapter, the next verse when Jesus is
resurrected. Okay? Happy ending, joyous,
glorious Saturday.
That's great. That's what we all want.
We go through these dark periods and
we're leaning into the the joy of it
all.
And today is also known as
low Saturday or black Saturday or even
the harrowing of hell.
The harrowing of hell. And in certain
traditions, this is when uh Jesus
actually went down into hell and saw all
the the denisens of of hell and I think
maybe brought some of them up to heaven.
Not sure about that point, but uh I'm
Buddhist, forgive me.
But yeah, this is pointing to the
previous day when we the Good Friday
when he is crucified and died.
Basically, when you're in the crucible,
all this heating up and that's often
times what a human life can feel like. I
mean, even just sitting for 10 minutes,
if you experimented with that
determination of just sitting without
moving for 10 minutes, you feel more
poignantly the sore spots of a human
life, a human body and a human mind, the
soft spots of our bodies and minds.
And so that's the wisdom of the Buddha.
He didn't look away. You know, it's the
first of the four noble truths. There is
suffering. There is a cause. There's a
sessation. And there's a way leading to
the sessation to the ending of
suffering. The Buddha was realistic.
Sometimes people call the Buddha
pessimistic because there is all this
talk of of suffering and is but as Ajan
Punadama points out people complain
Buddhists so depressing, so pessimistic.
All you talk about is suffering. And you
can also say no no no we don't just talk
about suffering we talk about sorrow
lamentation pain grief despair got the
whole spectrum come on
so the Buddha was realistic and this is
where we find ourselves you know many of
us probably most of us do live in
America and our dooka largely if we're
not in the throws of sickness or old age
or near death it's first world dooka,
you know, it's the dooka of
the refrigerator or the dooka of
whatever the mini and minor
crucifixions, you know, which it even it
seems I I I don't actually like that
that framing, you know, this some people
talk about there's third world suffering
and there's first world suffering. And
it it almost is sometimes thrown around
as a way to kind of devalue the
suffering that someone feels outside of
a you know a country that's less
materially prosperous than than America.
And certainly abject poverty is nothing
to um yeah most of us many of us haven't
experienced that. But that doesn't make
our suffering any less less real. And
yeah, we still do have our our soft
spots. So being realistic like that and
how what are we doing in this tomb on
this holy Saturday in this interim
period of our lives and really it's any
moment the Buddha talked about suffering
duca is not just abject the most you
know most of us think of suffering as in
involving spears or you know blood and
stuff. Uh but that's that is part of
suffering that's on the extreme end of
dooka. But dooka is the whole spectrum
in between. It's our bad days. It's not
getting enough coffee. You know, it's
whatever all these middle things. And
it's even it's inclusive of the
pleasures of heaven. There is heaven in
Buddhism and there's certainly heavenly
mental states which we can get better
and better train ourselves at. That's
what absorption is. That's what samadei
is. That's what Janna is. And we do
train in that. But all of that is
included in duka. Why is that? Because
duka is unfinished. That which has no
end. That which is going to change. Once
we come out of meditation, we come back
to this soft human body.
So in addition to being holy Saturday,
it's also the third day of Passover. And
a similar narrative. Passover in the
Jewish tradition is when the Jews were
released from slavery. God passed over
their homes and it's the beginning of
the Exodus which a lot longer than just
one day 40 years 40 years before they
find the holy Sunday before they come to
the the promised land. And oftentimes
that's the kind of dooka that we
encounter. It's not just one day of
suffering of inclement weather of a body
that's not doing what we want, which is
what a body does
as a body gets older,
but it's a lot longer. It can feel day
in and day out. It's like every morning,
noon, night, the migraine is there or
the child is sick, you know. So, the the
darkness of that cave, you know, comes
with us and we need to figure out what
to do with that. What to do with that.
So that brings us to duka to duka to
this spectrum of that which is
uncomfortable.
So the Buddha talked about three
characteristics impermanence or anicha
duca which is this unsatisfactoriness
and anata or not self. And duca is most
people's least favorite characteristic.
Honestly it's most most of you guys
don't like it. You just don't like it.
It's like Anicha's ugly cousin.
Nobody wants to look at it. But it is
it's the fine print of ssara. It's the
terms and conditions of birth is that we
will encounter having this body. It's
going to go through change and
alteration, sorrow, lamentation, pain,
grief and despair, birth, aging,
sickness and death. So not denying it.
Um but what is the response? What do we
do? How do we respond to duka? And the
Buddha answered this uh in a number of
discourses very very clearly and
helpfully.
Perhaps the most succinct way was in a
suta called the penetrative discourse
which is on guta 6.63
where the Buddha says there are two
responses to duca two responses to
unsatisfactoriness.
The first one is confusion
and the second one is search.
So when we find ourselves in this tomb,
when we find ourselves on the cross,
when we find ourselves in the desert,
when we find ourselves just
it's just not a a smiling kind of day,
you know, it's just when we come and
feel this most intimate of feelings that
really nobody else can feel. It's a very
very veryal. It's the most personal,
most intimate experience.
And what do we what do we do? Two
choices. Two choices. We can become
confused. The expanded sentence of that
is that some people
lament and wail and shriek and beat
their breasts and become confused.
So,
not going to lie, we do that. you know,
even if we're not beating our our
breasts, you even if we're not wailing
out loud, it's the the turnoff, you
know, it's when we do just
default. It's it's it's the default
option where I don't want to pay
attention. I'm not going to take the
effort to search. Even if that search is
just the simplest glimpse, even if
resolution, redemption, even if the
promised land is just a shift of
perspective away, which we can train in
that too. This shift of of perspective
that really can shift in a moment as if.
But how do we how do we do that? How do
we how do we shift into the the promised
land or just be with that dooka? How do
we not uh become confused? So we have
these two choices either confusion or
search.
And what is that search? Oftentimes it's
an ignoble what the Buddha called an
ignoble search where we're not searching
for truth. We're not going on the noble
search. you know where we actually turn
inside where we don't do the inner
search but it's an external search
looking for any kind of distraction you
know whether it's
all my children
as the world turns
days of our lives
John and Marlene
whatever TV popcorn I don't really watch
days of our lives somebody just told me
those names this mornings. I promise you
I do not watch soap operas.
But what do we do? It's this external
search. Dooka comes up. Things are
uncomfortable. And it's oftentimes the
littlest discomforture, just a little
bit of uncomfort. And the popcorn might
be too far away. The remote might be too
far away.
But we got that phone in the pocket.
We have a phone in our pocket and that's
the ultimate distraction device leading
outwards. This ignoble search which
honestly isn't really dealing with. It's
not learning what we can learn in the
cave. It's not learning and being with
this experience of being in the desert.
Not just being with what it feels like
to be a human, which we can then
transfer to the extent that I'm able to
just be with my own personhood, my own
dooka. that transfers and I can sit with
other people's dooka
and everybody else does dooka as well.
So this is a good spurning to just okay
stay one minute longer 10 seconds longer
before you grab for that external before
you go on that external search. We have
this choice point. This choice point.
And really faith in Buddhism when you
say I go to the Buddha, the Dharma, the
Sana for refuge. What faith is in
Buddhism is this belief that it is
possible to abandon unhealthy unhelpful
mind states. And it is possible to
cultivate healthy mind states. That's
the basis of Buddhist faith. And that's
very profound. It is possible to
cultivate healthy habits and it's
possible to give up unhealthy habits
like reaching for distraction
rather I can cultivate this habit of
just sitting a little bit longer and
that is you know why we go on retreat
that is why we increase slowly but
surely how much we meditate because it
is this uh forcing you know you're
you're steadily taking a step within
this zone zone of proximal development
in education theory that's what they
call this window where it's not too much
suffering if you say as the Buddha said
okay as long as I have not attained what
can be attained by human strength human
effort human endeavor I will not move my
posture let only my skin and senus
remain let my blood and muscles dry up I
will not move.
And if you say that and you don't give
yourself a realistic time frame within
your zone of proximal development, if
you're used to sitting 15 minutes and
then you go for Buddhahood,
God, you got to work up to that. You got
to be realistic.
Where are you at? So, and each of us
have our own zone of proximal
development. And this the Zoom
meditation is great because there's no
it's only you who determine how long you
want to stay there with others and
others are there with you working on our
own zones. It's not too much dooka and
it's not too little dooka. If you never
kind of test yourself, never sit a
little bit longer, then you you don't
actually know how strong you are. Your
muscles don't develop if you lift the
same amount of weight every day.
So that's one suta, the penetrative
discourse. The second one is the suta on
the arrow or the dart. The salah suta is
the poly. And here the Buddha elaborates
on that. Says here an unenlightened
person when they experience duca
something which is uncomfortable
they
resist it. They resist it.
And resisting it what do they do? They
crave after sensual pleasure. Why do
they crave after sensual pleasure? Why
do you reach for that bag of Doritos?
Why do you crave? Is because most
people, we don't know an escape from
suffering other than escape and
distraction. We don't know an escape
other than that. We don't know how to
how to turn inwards and just be with
that that softness. We don't know how to
be with ourselves softly
and not knowing that we are attached to
dooka. Just as if someone were to get
shot by an arrow, you get shot by a dart
and not just content with that. It's as
if you take another dart, another arrow
and then jab it right next to that first
arrow. So it is someone who doesn't yet
know how to be with their own suffering.
They experience two types of suffering.
the first arrow which is just a bodily
poke and the second arrow which is the
mental suffering that comes on top of
it. I think John Katzen the psychologist
has a great summary. He says that pain
is unavoidable. The pain of having a
body is unavoidable but suffering is
optional. That first arrow is
unavoidable. We got this body but the
second arrow we don't have to stab
ourselves and add mental suffering on
top of that.
So, but the wise person, someone who's
training in a path of nobility
does not resist the dooka and they do
not crave after sensual pleasures
because they know a escape from that
duca which is beyond or which transcends
sensual pleasure, sensual gratification
and not knowing that they are
disattached. You're not attached to
duca. That's like someone who just
experiences that first jab of the arrow
or the dart, but then doesn't compound
that. Doesn't make the problem worse.
Doesn't problematize
the basics of having a a human life,
having a human body.
So those are talking about the choice
point from another vantage point, not
adding. Do we add that second arrow or
do we just okay just be with this? And
it is it is a training and our capacity
to be with suffering does evolve over
time. Another suta called the upanisa
suta or the direct cause. Uh it talks
about the results of duca. And here the
Buddha points to a different result of
duca rather than duca leading to
confusion and this uh beating one's
breast and uh just becoming more and
more bewildered at the whole thing or
turning off or not being able to to be
with oneself. Rather faith faith can be
a result of suffering.
When you are in that tomb, in that cave,
and you experience the the pain, the
suffering, whatever it is that you don't
want, encountering that which you don't
like, not or encountering what you like,
not getting what you want. These are all
part of the definition of duka. When
you're there, you can either add more
suffering to it or you can lean in the
direction of faith. Maybe it is possible
to
be with this in a different a different
way.
So duca can actually lead to faith. You
look at this duca and you say it's true.
The Buddha was right. First noble truth.
He said it and he didn't just say it. He
he said it was number one. Number one is
duka. first noble truth. And what did
the Buddha say? What's our duty? What is
the first noble move? Our duty with
regards to suffering it's parinya. It is
to be known. We're to understand duka.
So sitting sitting with this and there
are different levels of our capacity. We
train in different ways. So really
other results of duca really any reason
why we might break those five precepts
that is killing stealing sexual
misconduct lying intoxicants. Why do we
do those is because we don't just know
how to be with ourselves.
the great genius and Christian
philosopher who created one of the first
calculators,
created one of the first buses, and he's
got a lot of great quotes. He said, my
favorite non Buddhist quote. He said,
"All of humanity's problems stem from
the inability to sit quietly in a room
alone."
That's why we break all of the precepts.
is because we just don't know how to be
bored. We're unskilled at being bored.
We're unskilled at just being with a
body and a mind. The body and mind that
we encounter when we just sit quietly in
a room alone. And Jesus, his tomb did
not have Wi-Fi.
All of you, you get bored, you're
featuring your suffering, your suffering
comes up and you can just reach for that
phone. Totally distract yourself. But
what if you expelled you purged your at
least your meditation space which is
this length arms length you kept your
you kept your phone over there at least
if not way over there different room can
you do at least that why not 10 minutes
start with half an hour there might be
some postpartum kind of
anxiety but try it for a little bit okay
what Is it like to just be in this this
cave? Can we sit quietly in the room of
our own lives by ourselves?
Another one of my favorite quotes or
interesting quotes. I don't know if it's
my favorite, but it's one from uh Suzuki
Roshi of the San Francisco Zen Center.
He said, "All of you," he was talking to
somebody else. He said, "But all of it
applies. It applies." Okay. All of you
are perfect
just as you are.
And there's a little bit of room for
improvement.
He went there. He said both. He said
both. And as a terravada guy actually
that first part is a little bit
uncomfortable to say like you know
there's this fear that if I say if I'm
perfect if everything is perfect if the
tomb if the desert is perfect just as it
is if this dooka is perfect as it is
that I'm just going to go out and you
know smoke a bunch of weed or eat a
bunch of Doritos you know like if I say
if I'm perfect then it seems like
everything is perfect. Okay, then
anything is allowable. If I'm perfect,
then virtue is out the window. If I'm
perfect just as I am, then everything is
perfect.
And there's a little bit of room for
improvement. And I think what he's
pointing out here, which I love, I
actually love both parts. And there is
room actually learning how to be with
both parts of that. That first part I
think is actually dangerous instruction
for someone who is in the throws of
addiction. I think that is inappropriate
advice uh for someone who's in addiction
uh in the throws of of addiction. Uh but
if you come to a place in your practice,
you really need to find a place in your
practice where okay, everything is
perfect as it is. I'm here in the
present moment and I'm doing everything
that I can. I'm there comes a point.
I've got as much mindfulness as I
possibly can in this moment.
I'm awake. I'm with the body. I'm right
here.
And that's perfect. I can't do anything
else. My head is up against the wall.
More effort does not help. So that is
the solution.
And there's also times when there's room
for improvement. I think each of these
is a skillful means, a skillful response
at different times to dooka. A skillful
way of responding to dooka.
Is now the time to say actually it's all
perfect. The dooka right now is perfect
and the best thing I can do for myself
is just to fully be here right now. Or
is now the time to make some some
change? Is now the time to actually get
up and walk out of of the cave?
I like that another name for Holy
Saturday is Silent Saturday.
And I think that is appropriate.
Kind of holds both the gloriousness, the
joyousness and the harrowing of hell.
This silence, silent Saturday.
And I would just
yeah meta loving kindness like a genuine
wish. This is at the heart of the loving
kindness training exercise of loving
kindness. Yeah. I wish that all of us
can know suffering because we don't
really have another choice. I don't wish
suffering on anybody but it will happen.
We will experience suffering and yeah
may we all have the skills to be with
suffering to understand suffering to
fully understand suffering because
that's the way to the end of suffering.
So that leave it there. I wish you all
the best.
Okay. if anybody has any questions or
thoughts about that both here in person
and Ryan can bring you a a mic and if
people are are willing um just to say
your name uh and if you don't want to
that's okay too and if you have a
question online feel free to raise your
cartoon hand
uh thank you John I'm Josh um you gave
instruction here maybe a month ago uh
with mindfulness and visual experience
and hearing and sensation in the palms
and practicing with that. Um,
I've moved a little bit to mindfulness
of mind, at least as I understand that.
I'm wondering if you have any
instructions, bullet points um, for
that.
for some people and you might be one uh
you know a lot sometimes knowing mind is
mindfulness of mind being able to just
know mind some traditions whole
traditions frame that as this is the
pinnacle of practice you need to do all
these preliminary steps before you can
actually be with that but I think for
some number of people it's not a super
exalted practice it's actually very
apparent very stepinable like in this
present moment moment and I think
actually the backward step that's what
one version of that is called in Zen
tradition taking the backward step and I
really appreciate that like on the
visual field I think what I was guiding
or have guided people before with the
field of of vision um yeah just paying
attention to that which is in front of
you and then allowing the
focus of one's eyes to just go out to
the peripheries of this when you look
out you don't basically see through two
little circles but vision kind of
becomes one big oval and so coming out
to the peripheries of that and it's not
like that it ends right here but it's
kind of fuzzy out on the sides
and so coming back where all of that
comes in from basically we're seeing out
of cones through the lens of the eye
you're seeing through a cone
And with the mind, if you can take
similarly taking that as a metaphor,
we're taking a backward step. Often
times we think we're this little
homunculus or this little me, mini me
inside the head, like a naked mole rat.
My sister, my sister called me that as
soon as I started shaving my eyebrows.
She said, "I look like a naked mole
rat."
But taking that backward step actually I
can feel the back of my head and I
actually know a lot beyond the back of
my head and that's fascinating. We're so
obsessed with what's in front of us and
just take that backward step and it's
not just vision. Our minds are so
obsessed with tracking who's in front of
us and what are they thinking and
whatever. But just take that there's a
whole universe. There's a whole universe
behind us and just okay the mind isn't
located in some little spot in the
middle of the skull taking that backward
step and see if you can do that again
and again. And I like this framing of
glimpses. So yeah, we get distracted by
whatever and then a glimpse or a
uh
just a back backward movement of the
mind just one one step up get a degree
of of knowing. Yeah. So hope that that
helps. There's lots of ways to do it but
yeah
Peter
Thank you for the talk uh John. Um
very very helpful.
I just wanted to ask a question related
to the Suzuki Roshi uh quote. I I I
thought that was uh really interesting.
And um
how how does that relate to kind of
equinimity and right view in that
you could say things are perfect because
of causes and conditions. And when you
see that I mean it's almost like looking
that first part is looking at the world
from the enlightened mind and the second
part is looking at it from the
unenlightened mind and they both can
exist at the same time.
>> Yeah. No thank you. I think you just
elaborated why I as a terraata gradual
path person sometimes feel uncom
uncomfortable with that framing which is
more non-dual and there's a great
teaching that says that a teaching which
is right for someone on a non-dual path
might be it might be medicine for
someone on a non-dual path but is poison
for someone on a gradual path and so too
that which is medicine for someone on a
gradual path might be poison for someone
on a non-dual path and And I love that
wisdom. Um, but yet from a terabatic
perspective, uh, everything's not
perfect. You know, we're in Ssara
there's like it's broken in, it's deeply
broken and deeply imperfect. Um, but
actually the Buddha did teach about
three kind of themes for practice that a
practitioner should pay attention to.
One of them is samadei. So letting the m
mind collect. One of them is putting
forth effort. And the third is
equinimity. And I think how I understand
that first part of the quote is
equinimity. It's an equinimity practice.
Like equinimity is on one level saying
actually everything is perfect or at
least as if. I'm going to relate to
everything as if it was perfect. And
that allows me to stay in this place of
ick means to look. Aa is from a
distance. So it's also like that
backward step. Okay. I can look from a
distance with equinimity equipoise.
Yeah.
>> Thank you Ajan for the lovely talk and
meditation. During the meditation, I was
trying to sit very still and and uh stay
calm and then I suddenly had a sense to
sneeze
and it grew and I I thought I can't
sneeze but the the sensation got worse
and worse and I said I have to just
allow just don't don't resist and then
eventually it passed. And so I thought
there was an intense craving to sneeze
because I knew if I sneezed it would
take away that in sensation. Now I was
able to get through it. I also had an
experience one time. I was uh lying down
and I had restless leg uh sensation and
that is really miserable because I had
this intense craving to move my legs.
But I wanted to see if I could get by
without it. So again, I tried to stay
very still. And the sensation got worse
and worse. And I began to really suffer.
And I said, "All I need to do is to just
move my legs." But I wanted to see if I
could get by without it. I don't think I
was able to. So the thought the the
question I had is craving.
I didn't choose craving in either of
these situations. The craving arose due
to conditions.
And it was my trying to allow the
craving to be without resisting that
caused my suffering. So the suffering
increased but then it went away. So it's
like it got worse before it got better.
And that was what allowed me. So now I
think in the future I need to have faith
when the craving is there. I need to
have faith that just allow and it will
pass.
>> Yeah. Thank you, Tim. That's great. And
as you know, and people would suspect,
you know, it's okay to sneeze and it's
also okay to to move and different
people, you have to know yourself on a
on a conventional level. You have to
know what your body is like. And I
really love doing long hours of
meditation and it works for me. I get
insights from it. And Ajanobo has got a
very different schedule. He meditates a
lot but a lot of his is say some forms
of movement meditation and just sitting
through something or just not sneezing
through something is not always the
answer. Um so can you even if you do
move in body
can you not can you allow the mind to
stay still with that that object? That's
really what it what it's about and be
mindful as you move from one posture to
another. So yeah,
thank you.
>> Oh, we have a question from the chat,
>> please.
>> Ria asks, could you please give a
pointer pointers to a grieving mother on
how to meditate? Thank you.
>> To what others?
>> A grieving mother. She lost her son.
>> Yeah.
I would say, Maria, I mean, starting
with yourself, like just being able to
be with your friend who's holding that
grief, um, that's huge. That's really
huge. And
yeah, if they are interested, if they've
actually asked to learn how to meditate,
then um yes,
there's
can't go wrong with the breath. Um if
you do know something about the person,
there's so many different types of so
many skillful means, 84,000 domadors
that the Buddha would teach. And if you
know something about your friend, if
they're um if they're not Buddhist or
not religious, you can just have them
count the breath. Or if they are a
verbal person, you can give them a
simple mantra like uh knowing and
letting go with every in-n-out breath.
If they're Christian, you say Jesus,
Christ, Jesus, Christ. Um and just kind
of catering it or to the the person that
you're you're speaking to. But I think
it would go a huge way if you're just
able to to be with them. If you meditate
next to them, it's almost sometimes that
can it's almost uh like contagious
meditation like people can calm down
around you if you yourself can come to a
place of of stillness. So
Emry, if you're open to it, feel free to
put your friend's name down in the in
the chat and we can chant for them
today. But send lots of meta to uh you
and your friend.
And I think yeah maybe one one more
question please.
>> Thank you a John Nis Kovu
you can tell that you guys have a very
similar archetypal energy of just being
able to convey the dharma in a beautiful
way. Um I had raised my hand before Tim
had his question so I think it's
slightly answered. My curiosity was when
you were speaking about the sitting with
discomfort as a means of being with the
totality of human experience and how
quickly the mind can want to get away
from feelings of discomfort or pain with
distraction
or just doing something different. Um,
in my case with meditation, I found a
lot of benefit in sitting in those
moments of discomfort when my mind is
really itching to do something else when
it feels bored or it wants to just move
or you know respond to that uh desire of
reaction and craving.
And I am curious or would just love to
hear if you had any input on how to
discern between the healthy limits,
which I think is maybe an impossible
question to answer in the sense of like
um when is pushing and sitting with too
much versus when is it just a um healthy
exploration of how can I be with
discomfort and tame the mind into just
sitting and not having to respond.
>> It's a great question. Uh Ajan Nisbo has
a great metric, three-fold trimetric to
pay attention to for just judging any of
our practices or just weighing our
practices. So just looking to what
extent uh is there flourishing normaly
and warmth flourishing normaly and
warmth so is are you sitting so much
that you're actually feeling abnormal
and cold and it seems like you're
wilting almost which I mean if you're a
meditator you can oftenimes see so
quickly it's almost like you you can
almost feel and see your body wilting
and freezing up and so that flourishing,
normaly and warmth and yeah, everyone
should pay attention to those three
things not just when you're judging any
new practice that you might take on but
also a specifically meditation if you
want to extend the the hours. So yeah,
thank you. Great question.