Ep. 354 - East-West Summit Takeaways

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.701
[AI-generated transcript.]

00:00:01.701 --> 00:00:06.673
<v Jeff Cranmer>Welcome to a special edition of the BioCentury This Week podcast.

00:00:07.407 --> 00:00:10.977
<v Jeff Cranmer>I'm Jeff Cranmer, Executive Editor here at BioCentury.

00:00:11.711 --> 00:00:23.957
<v Jeff Cranmer>And today we bring you BioCentury's this week from Seoul where BioCentury's and BayHelix are hosting our 5th East-West Biopharma Summit.

00:00:24.591 --> 00:00:51.951
<v Jeff Cranmer>Today, uh, special guest, Ya-Ting Lei, Director of Business Development and Licensing at Merck Group from Germany, and Ruizhe Zhao, VP of Clinical Analytics China, at Caidya, are joining VP and Editor in Chief, Simone Fishburn and Josh Berlin, the illustrious Josh Berlin.

00:00:52.152 --> 00:00:54.219
<v Simone Fishburn>Oh, you got an illustrious this time its spreading.

00:00:54.219 --> 00:00:55.021
<v Josh Berlin>I've been called worse..

00:00:55.155 --> 00:00:55.220
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:00:56.055 --> 00:00:56.689
<v Jeff Cranmer>I've noticed that

00:00:56.689 --> 00:00:57.156
<v Simone Fishburn>It gets worse.

00:00:57.156 --> 00:00:59.125
<v Jeff Cranmer>that Josh feels a little, you know,

00:00:59.192 --> 00:00:59.359
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:00:59.392 --> 00:01:04.430
<v Jeff Cranmer>a little slighted when Stephen, you know, just keeps praise upon you, Simone, so.

00:01:04.496 --> 00:01:05.697
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah, I get that a lot, yeah.

00:01:06.099 --> 00:01:25.350
<v Jeff Cranmer>We're going to talk about some of the key takeaways from three days of in-depth panel discussions, one-on-one meetings, presenting company presentations, networking, and some very, very bad karaoke,  last night, of which I was perhaps the guiltiest party.

00:01:25.784 --> 00:01:29.721
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, and of course kimchi in its many delicious forms.

00:01:30.055 --> 00:01:33.126
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, Simone, what were your key takeaways?

00:01:33.225 --> 00:01:40.799
<v Simone Fishburn>Well, first of all, Jeff, I just have to ask 'cause I was not at the session with a karaoke last night, and will I be able to find it on TikTok?

00:01:41.567 --> 00:01:45.572
<v Jeff Cranmer>I'm afraid I've been sent several, uh, several videos already.

00:01:45.572 --> 00:01:46.039
<v Jeff Cranmer>I know someone.

00:01:46.072 --> 00:01:46.472
<v Simone Fishburn>Oh, excellent.

00:01:46.472 --> 00:01:48.340
<v Simone Fishburn>This is now part of the record.

00:01:48.474 --> 00:01:51.844
<v Jeff Cranmer>Well, we always like to give props to Brian Denker, who's here.

00:01:51.844 --> 00:01:55.248
<v Jeff Cranmer>He's our,  one of the men who makes our conferences go.

00:01:55.248 --> 00:02:00.853
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, uh, apparently someone's created a compilation of all the songs Brian sang.

00:02:01.054 --> 00:02:05.558
<v Jeff Cranmer>So hopefully, uh, that overshadows whatever horror I, uh, I did.

00:02:05.992 --> 00:02:06.292
<v Simone Fishburn>All right.

00:02:06.292 --> 00:02:08.495
<v Simone Fishburn>Well, we'll be playing that on a future podcast, right Josh?

00:02:09.194 --> 00:02:09.929
<v Josh Berlin>I, I think so.

00:02:09.929 --> 00:02:13.832
<v Josh Berlin>And, uh, you know, we should give credit, I think to KoreaBio, one of our Regional Hosts.

00:02:14.099 --> 00:02:14.234
<v Jeff Cranmer>Indeed.

00:02:14.266 --> 00:02:18.070
<v Josh Berlin>They were certainly better at the karaoke, I think, than the BioCentury team.

00:02:18.604 --> 00:02:18.972
<v Jeff Cranmer>That's true.

00:02:19.171 --> 00:02:29.616
<v Josh Berlin>They have a little more practice, uh, Yeo and, and, and her colleagues sh shout out to Yeo, who, uh, got me to sing for the first time in, uh, since the last time I was in Seoul, actually.

00:02:29.949 --> 00:02:32.451
<v Josh Berlin>So, uh, well, let's, let's dig in here.

00:02:32.451 --> 00:02:37.590
<v Josh Berlin>We've got a lot of great stuff to talk about, Simone, uh, what's top of mind for you coming out of this week?

00:02:37.757 --> 00:02:41.961
<v Simone Fishburn>Well, I think probably top of mind, you gotta talk about energy, right?

00:02:41.961 --> 00:02:45.098
<v Simone Fishburn>I think that there's just been a tremendous amount of energy here.

00:02:45.532 --> 00:02:53.673
<v Simone Fishburn>I want to sort of draw, what we typically do is, of course, draw a few threads that have come in terms of take homes during this last few days.

00:02:53.872 --> 00:02:59.378
<v Simone Fishburn>So I think if I go back to the scene setter, which sort of launched the conference.

00:02:59.645 --> 00:03:05.384
<v Simone Fishburn>a few themes came up there that I think we could discuss and that sort of played out over the next few days.

00:03:05.717 --> 00:03:11.723
<v Simone Fishburn>So in that scene setter, what we had done was we really wanted to focus on innovation in Asia.

00:03:11.991 --> 00:03:13.126
<v Simone Fishburn>Outside of China.

00:03:13.293 --> 00:03:16.195
<v Simone Fishburn>We spend a tremendous amount of time talking about China.

00:03:16.195 --> 00:03:16.496
<v Simone Fishburn>Right?

00:03:16.695 --> 00:03:22.634
<v Simone Fishburn>But you know, there's really a lot of question about, what about the other regions in Asia and what's going on here?

00:03:22.835 --> 00:03:40.520
<v Simone Fishburn>And so we've done an analysis looking at deals in the last two years from biotechs in, the other, territories in Asia, and obviously may, maybe not obviously to everybody, but South Korea, really, by far is the most prolific, country after China in the region in terms of doing deals.

00:03:40.887 --> 00:03:51.598
<v Simone Fishburn>But, you know, theme number one, Jeff, related to your panel, we'll come back to this I think later in the pod, is Japan had a much bigger showing there than I think people typically think of.

00:03:52.098 --> 00:03:57.002
<v Simone Fishburn>I think everybody knows, and we'll talk about this, about the Strong, strong science in Japan.

00:03:57.203 --> 00:04:03.376
<v Simone Fishburn>But the idea, and you've been writing about this, that it's rising as a biotech center is certainly something we're looking at.

00:04:03.710 --> 00:04:10.449
<v Simone Fishburn>But let's just come back to, um, I'll just make a couple more comments here regarding South Korea, 'cause that is where we are.

00:04:10.682 --> 00:04:20.959
<v Simone Fishburn>And, You know, the analysis, pointed to something that was gained, born out through the other conversations, and that's what I call an incredibly high innovation quotient.

00:04:21.326 --> 00:04:28.735
<v Simone Fishburn>And so when we looked at the data and the deals, we saw something that we very rarely see, and that is among product deals.

00:04:28.935 --> 00:04:36.141
<v Simone Fishburn>There were more first in class than not first in class, uh, potential, first in class, you know, assets in there.

00:04:36.442 --> 00:04:38.677
<v Simone Fishburn>And when we looked and we dug in.

00:04:39.112 --> 00:04:55.862
<v Simone Fishburn>the innovation, there's, there's people are taking target risk with completely new biology and people are taking modality risk, not in one sort of, you know, monolithic just antibody structures, but across the, across a range that were, there were eight deals with eight different modalities.

00:04:56.228 --> 00:05:05.170
<v Simone Fishburn>And I think that what that taps into that I find very interesting is a need that, that is what South Korea and other regions of Asia need to do.

00:05:05.305 --> 00:05:08.473
<v Simone Fishburn>They cannot play on me toos and me betters.

00:05:08.608 --> 00:05:11.444
<v Simone Fishburn>And so they have to be leaning in into innovation.

00:05:11.644 --> 00:05:18.785
<v Simone Fishburn>You might call it risk, but it's, it's actually the only path for them is to lean into target risk biology, risk, modality, risk.

00:05:19.052 --> 00:05:28.827
<v Simone Fishburn>And so for me, that is a hallmark or brand that I think is starting to emerge, for sort of Korean biotech.

00:05:29.028 --> 00:05:29.995
<v Simone Fishburn>I'm gonna stop there.

00:05:29.995 --> 00:05:30.096
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:05:30.629 --> 00:05:35.168
<v Simone Fishburn>Right now, I, I wanted to raise one more thing and then, and then sort of springboard to you.

00:05:35.535 --> 00:05:43.375
<v Simone Fishburn>One of the other things that we saw there that I think we've also talked about a lot is collaboration among Asia, well, biotechs within Asia countries.

00:05:43.543 --> 00:05:45.711
<v Simone Fishburn>So maybe, you know, you can, you can pick it up from there.

00:05:45.711 --> 00:05:46.079
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:05:46.211 --> 00:05:47.747
<v Jeff Cranmer>Ruizhe, welcome to the program.

00:05:47.747 --> 00:05:49.247
<v Jeff Cranmer>I was so delighted to have you.

00:05:49.247 --> 00:05:49.482
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Thank you.

00:05:49.514 --> 00:05:52.384
<v Jeff Cranmer>Um, I know there was a few things that really resonated with you.

00:05:52.384 --> 00:05:57.357
<v Jeff Cranmer>I, I don't know if you want to jump to Simone's question or, or just take it from there.

00:05:57.656 --> 00:05:58.124
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Yeah.

00:05:58.124 --> 00:06:06.264
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>I, I think, uh, either working, in Asia out of China, but also globally because I'm working, as a biometrics function.

00:06:06.264 --> 00:06:11.370
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>So the topic of generating faster data in Asia interests me a lot.

00:06:11.803 --> 00:06:15.173
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>So, quote from one of our panelists yesterday that

00:06:15.173 --> 00:06:15.240
<v Jeff Cranmer>mm-hmm.

00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:19.644
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Uh, there are only two types of speed is fast and faster.

00:06:20.045 --> 00:06:20.079
<v Jeff Cranmer>Oh, yeah.

00:06:20.146 --> 00:06:20.413
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Yeah.

00:06:20.413 --> 00:06:22.348
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Which, uh, enlightened me a lot.

00:06:22.749 --> 00:06:30.423
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>I think, but everyone, uh, working clinical trials as, uh, myself and I think Ya-Ting, that quality is still very important.

00:06:30.423 --> 00:06:32.158
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>The data should be reliable.

00:06:32.458 --> 00:06:44.237
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>And one new thing I think, um, being bring up in the session yesterday is that the data should be transferable and portable from one country to another, which is very important.

00:06:45.137 --> 00:06:45.471
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Yeah.

00:06:45.872 --> 00:06:51.144
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Um, so I would like to give some, like, um, feedback on the, the, the intern.

00:06:51.144 --> 00:06:53.146
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So the data transfer, uh, topic.

00:06:53.245 --> 00:06:53.346
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:06:53.579 --> 00:06:53.779
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:06:53.779 --> 00:07:11.297
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So in the past few years, um, our team has been working like diligently on the, uh, Chinese project, but as you can imagine, uh, there's a strong mandate regarding the personal data policy and then I think it's very difficult to transfer the data across border.

00:07:11.596 --> 00:07:16.569
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So it's always a pain point when we are performing due diligence process.

00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:16.668
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:07:16.968 --> 00:07:17.403
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right?

00:07:17.403 --> 00:07:25.545
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then if we don't see the data, then it's very difficult to see whether the data really have integrity issue or not.

00:07:25.812 --> 00:07:28.314
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So I want to echo your points, right?

00:07:28.314 --> 00:07:33.819
<v Ya-Ting Lei>The data has to be transferable, otherwise it's very difficult to check on spot.

00:07:34.220 --> 00:07:34.821
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Yeah, yeah, true.

00:07:34.821 --> 00:07:42.060
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then you need to fly in the colleagues sitting in the US or in Europe, like to fly into specific site.

00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:43.596
<v Ya-Ting Lei>I think that's not very efficient.

00:07:43.795 --> 00:07:44.197
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>True.

00:07:44.596 --> 00:07:47.165
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Uh, I think different countries make a lot of effort.

00:07:47.165 --> 00:07:52.504
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>For example, Australia is, uh, top one for the, uh, regulation approval.

00:07:52.737 --> 00:07:57.209
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>And for China, we had a lot of effort to improve the edge drug policies.

00:07:57.543 --> 00:08:02.915
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>But still we have a lot of, uh, room to discuss about the data privacy across different regions.

00:08:03.216 --> 00:08:03.783
<v Jeff Cranmer>Excellent.

00:08:03.783 --> 00:08:06.485
<v Jeff Cranmer>Lot, lot of love for Australia at, at the conference here.

00:08:06.485 --> 00:08:06.718
<v Jeff Cranmer>I know.

00:08:06.718 --> 00:08:09.322
<v Jeff Cranmer>I'm supposed to say something like, Ozzy, Ozzy, oy, oy, oy.

00:08:09.322 --> 00:08:11.122
<v Jeff Cranmer>Or is that, is that how y'all roll?

00:08:11.122 --> 00:08:12.124
<v Jeff Cranmer>Do we have any Australians here today?

00:08:12.124 --> 00:08:12.358
<v Simone Fishburn>Not bad.

00:08:12.358 --> 00:08:12.725
<v Simone Fishburn>Not bad.

00:08:13.658 --> 00:08:13.793
<v Simone Fishburn>Jeff.

00:08:13.793 --> 00:08:13.826
<v Simone Fishburn>Not bad, Jeff.

00:08:14.392 --> 00:08:15.927
<v Jeff Cranmer>Well, I would have really leaned into it.

00:08:15.927 --> 00:08:16.461
<v Jeff Cranmer>Had I,

00:08:16.829 --> 00:08:17.196
<v Simone Fishburn>Well, we'll,

00:08:17.196 --> 00:08:17.430
<v Jeff Cranmer>anyway,

00:08:17.430 --> 00:08:18.463
<v Simone Fishburn>we'll practice that offline.

00:08:18.463 --> 00:08:19.165
<v Jeff Cranmer>We, we shall.

00:08:19.232 --> 00:08:19.464
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:08:19.966 --> 00:08:22.468
<v Simone Fishburn>So Josh, you know, we've talked a little bit about this.

00:08:22.468 --> 00:08:28.740
<v Simone Fishburn>It's a theme at BioCentury, it's a theme in others of our conferences, and that is this real need for speed.

00:08:29.007 --> 00:08:35.280
<v Simone Fishburn>I think Korea has been trying for many years aiming to become a center for clinical trials.

00:08:35.780 --> 00:08:38.250
<v Simone Fishburn>It's now got a lot of competition from other countries.

00:08:38.350 --> 00:08:41.019
<v Simone Fishburn>The U.K. is aiming to do that, we talked about that.

00:08:41.019 --> 00:08:45.591
<v Simone Fishburn>Uh, in fact, Prague, the Eastern Europe where we're holding, uh, Bio€quity Europe.

00:08:45.591 --> 00:08:55.567
<v Simone Fishburn>And so how are you looking at this, Josh, in terms of South Korea's ability to compete and how important a part of the South Korean kind of draw will that be?

00:08:56.034 --> 00:08:56.369
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah.

00:08:56.369 --> 00:08:58.004
<v Josh Berlin>Um, tha thanks for that, Simone.

00:08:58.004 --> 00:09:05.745
<v Josh Berlin>And you know, first off, wanted to just say thank you to our Korea host this week, uh, who have just been fantastic and really, welcoming.

00:09:05.745 --> 00:09:15.554
<v Josh Berlin>And, uh, you know, we've met so many, Korea biotech leaders, this week that, um, have, uh, stories to tell that we think will resonate, uh, across the global industry.

00:09:15.754 --> 00:09:38.711
<v Josh Berlin>But yeah, certainly the, the clinical trial, infrastructure here is world, class, you know, some of the, the KOLs and, and PIs here are really, uh, topnotch, you know, Simone, you had a, you know, I thought a great fireside chat, uh, yesterday with, professor, BC Cho of, uh, Yonsei University, you know, one of the top, oncology PIs in, in, in the world, really.

00:09:39.144 --> 00:09:50.322
<v Josh Berlin>And I do think folks are looking to China certainly for speed and, and, and for clinical trial data that helps to get de-risking faster.

00:09:50.590 --> 00:09:58.496
<v Josh Berlin>But there's also a lot of folks that are looking outside of China and, uh, I think certainly Australia, we've heard a lot, uh, today and, and this week.

00:09:58.697 --> 00:10:02.134
<v Josh Berlin>But Korea also I think has a, a major role to play there.

00:10:02.368 --> 00:10:19.118
<v Josh Berlin>You know, primarily known as a, I think a Phase II and Phase III hub for, uh, multi-regional clinical trials, but I know, uh, it's, it's something that a lot of folks are looking at now as another source to, to get data quicker to, to de-risk assets.

00:10:19.317 --> 00:10:25.390
<v Josh Berlin>And, you know, I don't know if Caidya, you know, is seeing the same thing more interest in, uh, in Korea trials as well.

00:10:25.658 --> 00:10:26.458
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Yes, yes.

00:10:26.458 --> 00:10:32.932
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>We have office in Korea and of course we are working on, uh, either multiregional studies, local studies.

00:10:33.698 --> 00:10:33.832
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah.

00:10:34.133 --> 00:10:40.505
<v Simone Fishburn>Actually, can I just go back to, um, that very interesting and entertaining fire side chat with Professor Cho.

00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:48.447
<v Simone Fishburn>One of the things that was interesting, although I think that there's some competitive spirit among the, uh, hospitals here, but that, that was rather nice.

00:10:48.714 --> 00:10:50.383
<v Simone Fishburn>But in terms of collaboration.

00:10:50.416 --> 00:10:52.684
<v Simone Fishburn>Because we, we think a lot about cross border.

00:10:52.684 --> 00:11:04.363
<v Simone Fishburn>He really was talking about, I mean he's doing a lot of, uh, EGF receptor and, you know, other cancer research and he was talking about having collaborations with professors in Israel at, at Sheba Hospital.

00:11:04.663 --> 00:11:16.274
<v Simone Fishburn>And I think that that is a really key thing for other places in Asia as well, but also Korea, to be creating these alliances around the world on the clinical trial structure.

00:11:16.575 --> 00:11:18.177
<v Simone Fishburn>or on, on the clinical front.

00:11:18.610 --> 00:11:22.748
<v Simone Fishburn>So that, that was extremely interesting for me, not something that I actually had anticipated hearing.

00:11:23.282 --> 00:11:26.652
<v Jeff Cranmer>Alliances, Simone, you're, you're not really keeping up with geopolitics.

00:11:26.652 --> 00:11:31.090
<v Jeff Cranmer>That's sort of a, a very, uh, last century kind of, uh, kind of thing.

00:11:31.557 --> 00:11:33.759
<v Jeff Cranmer>I'd like to, I'd like to turn to Ya-Ting now.

00:11:33.926 --> 00:11:41.667
<v Jeff Cranmer>Ya-Ting you mentioned, uh, mindset differences was one of the, the themes that really resonated with you here.

00:11:41.833 --> 00:11:44.035
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, can you expand on that a little bit?

00:11:44.202 --> 00:11:44.537
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Yeah.

00:11:44.537 --> 00:11:45.504
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Happy to do so.

00:11:45.770 --> 00:11:50.775
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Based on the session I went yesterday, I think it's a Capital, um, Market Showcase.

00:11:50.775 --> 00:11:50.875
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:11:51.243 --> 00:11:53.745
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Uh, that was the second session I went yesterday.

00:11:54.145 --> 00:12:01.586
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So the, uh, the panelists talk about the mindset differences between the Western and then uh, Asian investors.

00:12:01.854 --> 00:12:02.221
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:12:02.221 --> 00:12:08.461
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So I think the comment was usually in the U.S. the investors are more sophisticated.

00:12:08.793 --> 00:12:15.934
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Uh, we are seeing more, uh, healthcare specialists in, uh, the healthcare investment landscape.

00:12:16.302 --> 00:12:17.202
<v Ya-Ting Lei>in contrast.

00:12:17.535 --> 00:12:22.942
<v Ya-Ting Lei>For example, in Asia, we see there's a mix of generalists versus specialist.

00:12:23.208 --> 00:12:23.609
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right?

00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:39.258
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then if we are looking to the portfolio, they are investing in, and you can definitely see that like in many Asian VC or PE firms, um, even they are focused on healthcare, but they are like really investing in like hospitals, right?

00:12:39.258 --> 00:12:45.230
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So this is very different from the investment thesis from the US century investors.

00:12:45.730 --> 00:12:46.065
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:12:46.231 --> 00:12:51.703
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So I feel like that means the Asian investors could be more risk averse.

00:12:51.937 --> 00:13:01.647
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then I, I also like talked to an investor from Hong Kong, so he's also looking into the later stage asset, like what we are doing.

00:13:01.714 --> 00:13:01.780
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Mm-hmm.

00:13:02.014 --> 00:13:02.313
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:13:02.313 --> 00:13:12.490
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So for me, it's slightly eye-opening because you know, like if you want to invest earlier, it's riskier, but the rewarding, the reward might be higher, right?

00:13:12.725 --> 00:13:21.533
<v Ya-Ting Lei>But if the, the assay is very de-risk, of course you need to pay premium for that, but the return, it's limited, right?

00:13:21.533 --> 00:13:24.570
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So that's a, that surprised me, uh, slightly.

00:13:24.970 --> 00:13:32.544
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then, um, I think the second, uh, topic was around the post IPO obligations from the Hong Kong markets.

00:13:32.544 --> 00:13:32.644
<v Jeff Cranmer>Hmm.

00:13:33.278 --> 00:13:33.578
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:13:33.578 --> 00:13:48.726
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So when we talk to a lot of, uh, Chinese or Hong Kong companies, this is a topic that they often brought up because, they need to fulfill certain obligations from their investors or from, the government policies.

00:13:48.994 --> 00:13:52.298
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So that means that we'll change how we structure the deal.

00:13:52.730 --> 00:13:52.798
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm.

00:13:53.365 --> 00:13:53.798
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:13:53.865 --> 00:13:59.038
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So to be specific, a lot of time they, they will not give up the greater China rights.

00:13:59.071 --> 00:14:07.745
<v Ya-Ting Lei>They want to keep it, so that means it make having a, a global deal very difficult because the China right will be out.

00:14:07.745 --> 00:14:07.913
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:14:07.913 --> 00:14:08.746
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Will be cut out.

00:14:08.847 --> 00:14:11.216
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then also, if we dive into the details.

00:14:11.917 --> 00:14:15.153
<v Ya-Ting Lei>They want to be the marketing, uh, authorization holder.

00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:25.965
<v Ya-Ting Lei>That means they are able to book the sales so they can prove that they are creating the value, they are generating the revenue so they are able to fulfill those obligations.

00:14:26.264 --> 00:14:26.631
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:14:26.631 --> 00:14:33.739
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then as a BD person for a pharma, a lot of time we need to be flexible to change our deal structure.

00:14:33.739 --> 00:14:36.674
<v Ya-Ting Lei>If we really interested in the assets.

00:14:36.741 --> 00:14:36.841
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:14:38.110 --> 00:14:39.677
<v Jeff Cranmer>Ruizhe would you like to jump in there?

00:14:40.078 --> 00:14:40.479
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Sure.

00:14:40.511 --> 00:14:52.857
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Um, yeah, I do agree with that, what Ya-Ting has said about the mindset differences and also I heard from, uh, yesterday's session that there is a culture difference from the VC point of view.

00:14:53.125 --> 00:15:01.432
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>And one thing very important is to be in the culture, to do the VC investment in different regions and countries.

00:15:01.734 --> 00:15:09.942
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>And one word,  inspires me a lot is that global diligence and local success, which is a very exciting statement.

00:15:10.109 --> 00:15:12.410
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah, I think that, that's been a thread.

00:15:12.410 --> 00:15:13.211
<v Simone Fishburn>I think that.

00:15:13.913 --> 00:15:22.955
<v Simone Fishburn>The other angle on this thread, which is not really new, but still sort of had to be said, is that Korean companies at the other end, at the very early stages.

00:15:24.155 --> 00:15:27.359
<v Simone Fishburn>They need to be thinking globally from the start, right?

00:15:27.359 --> 00:15:31.596
<v Simone Fishburn>That there's, there's not gonna be a Korea market that is sufficient to justify it.

00:15:31.931 --> 00:15:41.472
<v Simone Fishburn>And so, you know, even though we see China companies being incredibly global, they have a completely different dynamic that came actually through on the scene setter panel.

00:15:41.572 --> 00:15:54.986
<v Simone Fishburn>And so this idea of thinking globally from the start is kind of interesting in light of the fact that when we looked at the deals, half of the deals are actually between, companies in different A parts of Asia.

00:15:54.986 --> 00:15:56.989
<v Simone Fishburn>So it might be inside Korea or Korea, Japan.

00:15:57.155 --> 00:16:00.225
<v Simone Fishburn>And I think in many cases that is part of the global strategy.

00:16:00.392 --> 00:16:02.528
<v Simone Fishburn>You start with that, you create value.

00:16:02.561 --> 00:16:09.600
<v Simone Fishburn>You, Maybe you're combining technologies to create an asset or something like that, and that's part of your strategy for going global rather than immediately.

00:16:09.802 --> 00:16:12.638
<v Simone Fishburn>Trying to commercialize or, or find a partner in the West.

00:16:12.638 --> 00:16:12.705
<v Simone Fishburn>So,

00:16:13.304 --> 00:16:17.142
<v Jeff Cranmer>And that was a, a a point on, uh, the Japan panel that we just had.

00:16:17.142 --> 00:16:21.413
<v Jeff Cranmer>So some of the folks in the audience here, uh, perhaps, heard that point.

00:16:21.413 --> 00:16:32.291
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, it was, uh, I think Dr. Fujimoto of the Shonan Health Innovation Park, he kind of spoke to the different mindsets, but how that can work toward a synergy.

00:16:32.291 --> 00:16:49.307
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, I suspect he kind of has a standup career separately because he seemed to get a lot of laughs when he talked about, how wonderfully Koreans with their aggressiveness could work with Japanese who, uh, perhaps not known for that.

00:16:49.441 --> 00:17:06.858
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, and how this could be leveraged with Korean biotechs going to Japan as maybe an initial, launching point or bringing the entrepreneurial spirit of Korea, uh, where we see many, many biotechs cropping up and, and sort of this.

00:17:07.459 --> 00:17:16.535
<v Jeff Cranmer>Big pharma mindset of Japan, which, after the us Japan's big pharma has brought most of the blockbuster drugs to the world.

00:17:17.068 --> 00:17:24.276
<v Josh Berlin>You know, I think the other part, that he mentioned, uh, was the number of Korean biotechs who have now set up shop in iPark.

00:17:25.076 --> 00:17:30.249
<v Josh Berlin>Uh, you know, we, uh, were out at, uh, BioJapan last year and had a chance to, to visit there.

00:17:30.249 --> 00:17:32.718
<v Josh Berlin>And it's a, it's a really impressive, uh, facility there.

00:17:32.718 --> 00:17:34.185
<v Josh Berlin>Huge, huge campus.

00:17:34.452 --> 00:17:38.257
<v Josh Berlin>Um, but the fact that there's now, you know, 8 or 10 Korean biotechs

00:17:38.257 --> 00:17:38.323
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:17:38.523 --> 00:17:39.892
<v Josh Berlin>set up in, in the park.

00:17:39.924 --> 00:17:39.991
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:17:40.025 --> 00:17:53.372
<v Jeff Cranmer>They, they said it was the, the, uh, we were, we were chatting at breakfast and he said it was the, largest, oh no, second largest freestanding building, in Japan after Narita airport, uh, which it's not bad.

00:17:53.372 --> 00:17:55.673
<v Josh Berlin>More, more biotechs, but less, uh, airplanes, I guess.

00:17:55.673 --> 00:17:58.810
<v Simone Fishburn>So I think, I think what's gonna be interesting to see is.

00:17:59.577 --> 00:18:05.483
<v Simone Fishburn>You know, we, we tend to think in terms of, uh, hubs and ecosystems, in terms of bellwethers, right?

00:18:05.483 --> 00:18:07.251
<v Simone Fishburn>We've talked about that in Europe.

00:18:07.318 --> 00:18:19.163
<v Simone Fishburn>Looking at, you know, I know maybe Genmab is some bellwether there now, uh, obviously the China ecosystem has had a few bellwethers with BeOne and, I don't know, it's maybe Innovent one, something like that.

00:18:19.163 --> 00:18:19.263
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:18:19.263 --> 00:18:19.832
<v Jeff Cranmer>Becoming one.

00:18:19.832 --> 00:18:19.897
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:18:20.031 --> 00:18:20.199
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:18:20.199 --> 00:18:20.231
<v Jeff Cranmer>Legend.

00:18:20.231 --> 00:18:20.365
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:18:20.932 --> 00:18:21.299
<v Simone Fishburn>Legend.

00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:22.835
<v Simone Fishburn>Uh, well, Legend is,

00:18:22.835 --> 00:18:24.169
<v Jeff Cranmer>Shout out to New Jersey baby.

00:18:24.169 --> 00:18:25.403
<v Simone Fishburn>Shout out to New Jersey, right?

00:18:25.403 --> 00:18:25.471
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:18:25.471 --> 00:18:25.938
<v Simone Fishburn>Legend.

00:18:25.971 --> 00:18:30.041
<v Simone Fishburn>Okay, so we have a lot of a longstanding conversation, 'cause legend is actually headquartered in New Jersey.

00:18:30.041 --> 00:18:33.144
<v Simone Fishburn>So do they get to call themselves Chinese, but everybody calls 'em Chinese, right?

00:18:33.178 --> 00:18:33.345
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:18:33.377 --> 00:18:52.998
<v Simone Fishburn>So, um, The main point here is what is the trajectory and what is the timeline for Korea to start to create, biotechs with that kind of gravitas, with that kind of ability and draw, that then what we've seen happen in these ecosystems is they do acquisitions or things get bought and they recycle the talent.

00:18:53.198 --> 00:19:06.644
<v Simone Fishburn>And it, you know, Korea is, I I, I actually wanna take a quote from Billy Cho from, the scene setter panel, which he said, if you can solve for just two main bottlenecks, this could really be the beginning of a J curve, right?

00:19:06.644 --> 00:19:10.115
<v Simone Fishburn>And his two bottlenecks were, of course, capital to value inflection.

00:19:10.348 --> 00:19:14.519
<v Simone Fishburn>And the second thing was expertise in Korea for global clinical strategy.

00:19:14.786 --> 00:19:19.324
<v Simone Fishburn>And so that might not be new when we think of lots of places around the world that have those challenges.

00:19:19.590 --> 00:19:27.598
<v Simone Fishburn>But I think that that's a sort of path that we, he certainly expects to see Korea sort of enter that J curve.

00:19:27.665 --> 00:19:27.932
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah.

00:19:27.932 --> 00:19:32.837
<v Josh Berlin>And I, I think the other thing, I think that's spot on, um, both from, uh, you, Simone and Billy as well.

00:19:33.105 --> 00:19:43.248
<v Josh Berlin>Uh, but you know, we're also starting to see deals that are opening eyes, you know, certainly not at the volume of, of, of China, but maybe earlier days.

00:19:43.248 --> 00:19:49.354
<v Josh Berlin>But, you know, we had, um, Sang-hoon Lee , CEO, and Founder of ABL Bio on our Dealmaking panel.

00:19:49.354 --> 00:19:54.826
<v Josh Berlin>You know, he's had, uh, a couple of really, really big deals, uh, and, and a few other.

00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:56.994
<v Simone Fishburn>We got Orum Therapeutics here in the room.

00:19:56.994 --> 00:19:59.064
<v Josh Berlin>We got, we got SJ of Orum here.

00:19:59.131 --> 00:20:02.667
<v Josh Berlin>Um, we got a lot of our Korea, uh, biotech friends here.

00:20:02.901 --> 00:20:10.241
<v Josh Berlin>But I think the more, the more deal flow you see like that, the more it is uh, eyeopening in terms of numbers.

00:20:10.442 --> 00:20:14.278
<v Josh Berlin>It gives the whole ecosystem an opportunity to get more deals.

00:20:14.278 --> 00:20:17.481
<v Josh Berlin>It kind of validates the, the, the ecosystem.

00:20:17.749 --> 00:20:25.257
<v Josh Berlin>And I'd love, love to hear Merck's, you know, perspective on that, you know, in terms of, how much are you looking for deals now in, in, in Korea?

00:20:26.191 --> 00:20:26.724
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Um, so, um.

00:20:26.959 --> 00:20:33.198
<v Ya-Ting Lei>as a BD person, we are scouting all the innovative assets across the Asia and globally.

00:20:33.198 --> 00:20:33.498
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:20:33.765 --> 00:20:38.836
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And, but I wouldn't say, okay, we are only looking to assets from China or Korea only.

00:20:39.003 --> 00:20:44.041
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So we look into everything but I have to say, every time when I come to Korea, I'm really.

00:20:44.175 --> 00:20:50.648
<v Ya-Ting Lei>impressed by the novel therapies the company are producing earlier, they are trying to develop.

00:20:51.016 --> 00:20:51.415
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:20:51.415 --> 00:20:54.019
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then there are also a lot of emerging platforms.

00:20:54.385 --> 00:20:58.690
<v Ya-Ting Lei>but you know, every pharma always have a mandate to look for specific things.

00:20:58.923 --> 00:21:01.292
<v Ya-Ting Lei>A lot of time, maybe this time we don't see.

00:21:01.692 --> 00:21:13.005
<v Ya-Ting Lei>a perfect asset, which can fit into our current portfolio, but I'm really looking forward to learn more partnerships with the Korean biotech and then really learning more about the ecosystem here.

00:21:13.372 --> 00:21:16.875
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right, because I think, um, I just talked to my sister this morning.

00:21:16.875 --> 00:21:18.175
<v Ya-Ting Lei>She's sitting in Boston.

00:21:18.277 --> 00:21:20.077
<v Ya-Ting Lei>She's a professor at Harvard.

00:21:20.178 --> 00:21:26.917
<v Ya-Ting Lei>She says she has a lot of brilliant students coming from Korea, and I, I feel the same because I feel like the, the science, the.

00:21:27.184 --> 00:21:30.255
<v Ya-Ting Lei>The science technology space here is so vibrant.

00:21:30.321 --> 00:21:30.588
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Right.

00:21:30.588 --> 00:21:32.891
<v Ya-Ting Lei>And then people are very open-minded here.

00:21:33.191 --> 00:21:35.594
<v Ya-Ting Lei>At the same time, they're also very hardworking.

00:21:35.794 --> 00:21:35.894
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:21:36.127 --> 00:21:36.161
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:21:36.161 --> 00:21:39.163
<v Ya-Ting Lei>So I'm sure Korea will be, you know, the next, uh, China.

00:21:39.364 --> 00:21:39.498
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Yeah.

00:21:39.498 --> 00:21:40.632
<v Ya-Ting Lei>You know, show people time.

00:21:40.665 --> 00:21:56.315
<v Josh Berlin>I, I thought, you know, one of the, to me, one of the highlights, uh, this week was the, um, the Regional Host Plenary that, uh, uh, KoreaBio uh, put together was moderated by Roche, but was looking at sort of next generation, biotech, leaders and, and companies here.

00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.451
<v Josh Berlin>Several of which I, I have to admit, I, you know, I hadn't really known of before.

00:22:00.719 --> 00:22:11.430
<v Josh Berlin>And, uh, you know, the fact that we had some young leaders here on stage who were very passionate about company building and their science, I mean, that's, that's really the future of, of what we're gonna see in Korea, I think.

00:22:11.596 --> 00:22:12.497
<v Simone Fishburn>I, I totally agree.

00:22:12.497 --> 00:22:16.233
<v Simone Fishburn>Josh, can I, I, I just wanna add something and maybe you actually have some numbers.

00:22:17.001 --> 00:22:23.974
<v Simone Fishburn>One of the things that was really interesting to me, you know, BioCentury was in China for a long time, telling, you know, this is where it's gonna be.

00:22:23.974 --> 00:22:26.611
<v Simone Fishburn>And the rest of the world was like, oh wait, China, you know?

00:22:26.912 --> 00:22:32.451
<v Simone Fishburn>And what we've been trying to say for this conference is, you know, don't be late to this party, as it were.

00:22:32.683 --> 00:22:35.519
<v Simone Fishburn>And I certainly met during the last few days.

00:22:35.854 --> 00:22:44.162
<v Simone Fishburn>Several VCs, some of whom from the west, sorry, from New York, from from the us, from other places who hadn't been to Korea before.

00:22:44.229 --> 00:22:45.163
<v Simone Fishburn>This was all coming.

00:22:45.364 --> 00:22:58.576
<v Simone Fishburn>Another person who told me they were gonna be coming back once a quarter, and so there is a sort of, I don't know if you have numbers on, you know, people from the west who are sort of starting to, to find this region, but it's certainly a, a don't sleep on Korea kind of thing.

00:22:58.710 --> 00:23:00.412
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah, I, I think that's exactly right.

00:23:00.412 --> 00:23:07.184
<v Josh Berlin>Uh, Simone, we were really happy to have some of our, uh, US and European VC friends out here this week.

00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:17.328
<v Josh Berlin>Uh, one, uh, comment I heard a couple of times, uh, maybe phrased differently, but a couple of times was, couple of the VCs being surprised at how sophisticated

00:23:17.461 --> 00:23:17.561
<v Jeff Cranmer>mm-hmm.

00:23:17.662 --> 00:23:21.232
<v Josh Berlin>the presentations were on our company track,

00:23:21.232 --> 00:23:21.298
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:26.070
<v Josh Berlin>presenting company track, which, you know, Jeff, uh, was, was the one that selected many of those companies.

00:23:26.070 --> 00:23:35.346
<v Josh Berlin>But the fact that the Korean biotechs, they, you know, essentially they couldn't tell the difference between a Korea biotech presentation versus a US biotech presentation.

00:23:35.614 --> 00:23:35.680
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:23:36.013 --> 00:23:42.053
<v Jeff Cranmer>and we had the, uh, the leaders of MNCs, based here in Korea on stage.

00:23:42.653 --> 00:23:49.728
<v Jeff Cranmer>who, uh, all of them said, their companies were just really investing more and more in Korea.

00:23:49.961 --> 00:23:53.030
<v Jeff Cranmer>so next big thing, it's gonna be fun to watch

00:23:53.064 --> 00:23:54.900
<v Simone Fishburn>the, the biotech version of K-pop.

00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:55.800
<v Simone Fishburn>You know, it's gonna be like

00:23:55.834 --> 00:23:56.634
<v Jeff Cranmer>It's true.

00:23:56.667 --> 00:23:57.469
<v Jeff Cranmer>It's true.

00:23:57.536 --> 00:23:57.602
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:23:57.903 --> 00:23:58.303
<v Jeff Cranmer>Um,

00:23:58.403 --> 00:24:00.172
<v Simone Fishburn>we have sort of KPop Demon Hunters kind of thing.

00:24:00.305 --> 00:24:03.741
<v Jeff Cranmer>KPop Demon Hunters has, um, taken the world.

00:24:03.741 --> 00:24:07.211
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, and I think someone said to, to you, Josh, uh, you know.

00:24:07.578 --> 00:24:12.683
<v Jeff Cranmer>K-pop took over the world and, and, K-biotech is gonna be even bigger.

00:24:12.983 --> 00:24:13.617
<v Jeff Cranmer>So,

00:24:13.951 --> 00:24:14.152
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:24:14.286 --> 00:24:19.290
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, I told that to my Korean father-in-law, this morning, and he was, uh, he was pumped.

00:24:19.324 --> 00:24:21.692
<v Simone Fishburn>I, I, I hope we'll have the, like, the fashion to go with it.

00:24:21.692 --> 00:24:23.428
<v Simone Fishburn>Do you think that'll be Yeah, I, that'd be quite good.

00:24:23.528 --> 00:24:23.694
<v Jeff Cranmer>I mean,

00:24:23.694 --> 00:24:26.064
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Could be a fashion, could be a fashion.

00:24:26.964 --> 00:24:27.332
<v Jeff Cranmer>Right Ruizhe?

00:24:28.266 --> 00:24:34.271
<v Jeff Cranmer>Just right outside, there's, uh, all sorts of, uh, great Korean fashion right outside of our, uh, hotel here in Myeong-dong.

00:24:35.539 --> 00:24:37.409
<v Simone Fishburn>Well, if you say that, I will go and investigate that.

00:24:37.409 --> 00:24:38.643
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah, you, you really should.

00:24:38.676 --> 00:24:46.084
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, uh, while you're at it, uh, maybe stop at, uh, Olive Crush and, uh, pick up some, uh, you know, some, uh, makeup.

00:24:46.084 --> 00:24:46.384
<v Jeff Cranmer>And

00:24:47.085 --> 00:24:48.420
<v Simone Fishburn>You telling me what, what I need.

00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:48.752
<v Simone Fishburn>You're telling

00:24:48.752 --> 00:24:50.288
<v Jeff Cranmer>No, no, I'm just saying that, uh,

00:24:50.288 --> 00:24:51.556
<v Simone Fishburn>This is not gonna end well, Jeff.

00:24:51.856 --> 00:25:05.369
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah, I'm just saying that if you just so happen to have, uh, you know, a man in your life who cared about you and wanted to take you shopping, uh, you know, it would be a nice way to spend some time after working so hard at this conference.

00:25:05.737 --> 00:25:06.037
<v Simone Fishburn>I agree.

00:25:06.037 --> 00:25:06.070
<v Josh Berlin>I agree.

00:25:06.070 --> 00:25:07.204
<v Josh Berlin>That's a decent recovery.

00:25:07.271 --> 00:25:07.739
<v Josh Berlin>Decent.

00:25:08.006 --> 00:25:08.339
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:25:08.373 --> 00:25:08.740
<v Jeff Cranmer>That's

00:25:09.607 --> 00:25:10.307
<v Simone Fishburn>Close one there.

00:25:10.942 --> 00:25:11.675
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah, I guess so.

00:25:11.809 --> 00:25:19.518
<v Jeff Cranmer>Well, alright, well I just wanna thank Ruizhe and Ya-Ting for joining us, here at the meeting here on the podcast.

00:25:19.951 --> 00:25:24.422
<v Jeff Cranmer>Josh as ever for, uh, leading us on our conferences team.

00:25:24.623 --> 00:25:34.231
<v Jeff Cranmer>And Simone, as always, you're, uh, sort of my partner in crime on the podcast and, uh, a big shout out to McKinsey for their wonderful presentation today.

00:25:34.499 --> 00:25:39.471
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, BayHelix for partnering with us on Get another meeting.

00:25:39.671 --> 00:25:43.708
<v Jeff Cranmer>And of course, our Korean collaborators on this meeting.

00:25:43.942 --> 00:25:50.248
<v Jeff Cranmer>you've been listening to the BioCentury This Week podcast, from Seoul, South Korea.

00:25:50.481 --> 00:25:53.585
<v Jeff Cranmer>Thanks for tuning in and we will catch you next time.

00:25:54.051 --> 00:25:54.385
<v Josh Berlin>Thanks, Jeff.

00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:54.752
<v Luther (Ruizhe) Zhao>Thank you.

00:25:54.752 --> 00:25:54.952
<v Ya-Ting Lei>Thank you.

00:25:54.986 --> 00:25:55.185
<v Jeff Cranmer>Alright.

00:25:55.185 --> 00:25:56.054
<v Jeff Cranmer>Thank you so much.

00:26:01.092 --> 00:26:05.497
<v Jeff Cranmer>Kendall Square Orchestra provides the music for BioCentury this week.

00:26:05.864 --> 00:26:21.011
<v Jeff Cranmer>The group connects science and technology professionals and other members of the greater Boston community to collaborate, innovate, and inspire through music, while supporting causes related to healthcare and education.