#507 - Chris Tomlin Returns! On Releasing a Song That’s 1,800 Years Old + Bobby Gets His Thoughts on Judas + How He Reacts When People Curse Around Him + Writing His Favorite Lyric Ever

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes we think heaven looks like America or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's like.

00:00:11
Speaker 1: It looks nothing like that. This was a Tuesday in the world. Is every kind of person's lined up just to stand there and just to kiss the stone where Jesus.

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Speaker 3: Late episode five oh seven, Chris Tomlin returns one of my favorite people in Nashville. Is just the best of a genuine affinity for Chris, and hopefully you can tell during this interview at Chris Tomlin is his Instagram if you want to follow him, and we do talk about everything, including the music he's putting out or now has put out, and even the oldest song ever written.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's the wildest part.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like eighteen hundred years old.

00:00:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Did you feel like my Bob Dylan reference.

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Speaker 3: Minimized it because he's talking about it, so you'll hear a song that was written basically on a tablet. Yeah, I think it's a good co and the Christian War and I'm like, well, Bob Dylan wagon Will says.

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Speaker 2: Like, no, this song is eighteen hundred years old. Yeah, so uh yeah.

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Speaker 3: I love Chris and his good Friday Nashville shows are the best we went last year. He's got worship under the Stars, which we talk about here. He is, which, by the way, Chris Tomlin is tied with Taylor Swift as the number two ranking of artists headlining Bridgestone. I think McGraw has the number one spot. But also Chris Tomlin's like one of the biggest touring artists in the world.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 3: It is wild because a lot of artists big in America, not that big everywhere else. Chris Tomlin big in America, big other places too, because the music, just Christian music is for Christians everywhere. National man, Chris Tomlin. Here he returned. I'm not going to read the should read the princes, No, I should read Okay, okay. Chris Tomlin returns, episode five o seven. Chris, good to see you again, man, great to see you. Last time I saw you, I was you know, you're one of the few people that I wouldn't feel awkward this happening, and I did, And I want to say this to begin with, I didn't feel award, but my wife and I were sitting and I always feel we're approaching a sitting table that's eating and luckily we know you and you came up and we were sitting at Urban Market. Yeah, and I was like, you know what, one of the maybe three people that wouldn't be awkward as we're sitting and they came and dominated us because you're standing, You're dominating, You're over the top. You're like, hey, how's it going, And we're looking up at you and I'm so dominant.

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Speaker 2: We're like, oh my goodness, this is so dominating. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That's the last I saw you there. And we went to your Easter show last year.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming. That's I think that's our two run ends in the past few months.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: But social media is so weird though, because I feel like, even though I'm not, I kind of feel like I'm still keeping up, you know, I see I'm like, yeah, I know, chriss up to me. Of course, I was thinking about yesterday because my in laws we're talking about Easter and they are either going to come here to do the show or we're going to go there to Oklahoma and do something there. But the selling point was, I know, Chris Amlin.

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Speaker 2: Was I'm just letting you know. The selling point was, let's go the show's all And I know Chris.

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Speaker 3: So Chris, and we'll we'll hang it. So if we win, that's why. But if we lose, that's why it wasn't quite strong enough.

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Speaker 2: I like it, bro. I can't wait to see which way goes. How you been I did good man great?

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Speaker 3: I was looking through and I rarely will just address the notes that I have just right off the bat, but I just need help a little bit, okay, because sorry, no, You're just you're killing it and it's so much I just need I'm gonna ask questions in ways that I don't understand about things because you're so involved in so many really cool projects that I just need to know the capacities are involved. Yeah, okay, So first House of David, Yes, okay, so we're just talking about.

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Speaker 2: That before you come in. Yeah yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: So, uh one of your songs I know it is in the soundtrack, yeah, which is After your Heart, After Your Heart.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all I'm involved. Okay, well, not all that is involved. That's how I'm involved.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Yes, As approached to that in the last fall and.

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Speaker 1: Said, hey, they're coming out with this, and I was so excited anything about David. I mean, I could go on and on, but I was like, are you kidding me? This is going to be I hope they do this well because it's going to be what insane, what an incredible story. So yeah, man, that was I was involved, and I was as I as I normally am in the middle of the night. It's one of the when when the ideas came, and I just I had this idea, and I think it's one of my favorite lyrics I've ever written. And it was the first line of the song, and I went, I got up in the mill of night and sing it into my phone, and it just and it said this.

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Speaker 2: It says, h I.

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Speaker 1: Got a sling in one hand, I gotta I gotta harp harp in one hand, and a sling and a sling in the other for the battles I fight, I fight with these. And I thought, that's that's David. And and so I wrote this song after you. It's called after your Heart. The Bible says David was a man after God's own heart. And so I wrote this little idea of of all his ups and downs, his triumphs and his failures and and so that was my favorite, one of my favorite things I've.

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Speaker 2: Gotten to wright.

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Speaker 3: Did they approach you about doing a song for it first? And then that came as you had it on your mind? Or is it the Yeah, it was we're making this House of David? Do you do you have a song about David?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't, but I've never a song about him, But I would like the challenge.

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Speaker 3: I guess to me, it would go in my mind, I would go, well, which version, like which part of the David story? Right as like the King the powerful or David as you talk about the slang like there's difference like Michael Jordan, do you talk about his early years with the Bulls? Do you do when he won three and three? Do the Wizards?

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Speaker 2: Yes? So that to me, that would be what I would think about. How, yeah, if I were going to do a song about David, it's a big story. Did they give you a parted like we want?

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Speaker 1: And they gave zero because at that point they didn't have a lot of guides. They're like, oh, we don't have a lot of guides. Just kind of write something. And you know they said, Psalm forty's taken, Psalm twenty three is taken, and uh, which is I figured? But like write something from just anything you think about. So that idea of of David being, you know, the the worship leader of the Bible, right, he wrote the songs, he wrote the songs of the time of of praise to God, write the psalms. Always kid that one day I'm going to meet David in heaven and he's gonna have words of me, because I get a lot of credit for things he wrote, because it's I take all this my songs from the psalms. And so when I when that line came, you know, that opening line, I've got a slinging. I've got a harp in one hand and a sling and the other for the battles I fight.

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Speaker 2: I fight at these. I thought, that's David.

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Speaker 1: He was such a He was a he had a heart for God, and he was a warrior. And that that idea of that harp and that sling those two things two two completely different weapons, you know, but both one is kind of the spiritual world, you know, and one is the physical world. And he was a he was a fighter in both.

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Speaker 3: So before I move to the next thing, sorry, no, no hearing you talk about things, I have like one hundred questions based on what you just said. But Uh, when I am doing comps Bible comps to myself and people that I either want to emulate or or things I want to avoid, I think about Saul, how pride, how prideful Saul was, and which led which you know, the diminishing king. Uh, and pride is really what cost him. And that's that's a comp that I make that I try not to be. Yeah, and that because again David ends up following Saul. Yeah, you know the story. I don't have to tell you this story.

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Speaker 1: Well, but like it's amazing because but all would say play the harp right because it eased him.

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Speaker 2: And I try to I try to not be Saul. Right.

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Speaker 3: I just read The Alchemist I have I can't remember it. I read it so long ago. I loved it. I loved it, and it was one of those books that everybody's always read and or read a long time ago, and I just never have. And I'm in a place now my life where I kind of don't know I'm in many ways, I am exactly where I want to be, but I've never been more lost. At the same time, Yeah, it's like this odd juxtaposition, like I know exactly who I am, but I also have no clue more than ever. And I was flipping through books cause I like to read. I just finished the fiction book and I'm usually not even a fiction reader, and I flipped like seven or eight, and for no reason, the Alchemist came up and I clicked it and read it and I read it like a day and a half. And not that I'm a pretty fast reader, but I was just so in. And it's about finding your personal legend, yes, yes, yes, and not really attached to any religion, right, because there are references to Christ all and all, but but they make sure to go this is not specifically related to religion, right, And in that, you know, there's a pride theme.

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Speaker 2: And I thought about just.

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Speaker 3: This story specifically, and you talking about that just kind of retriggered.

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Speaker 2: Retriggered.

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Speaker 3: That is, I try to not be Saw, like That's what I truly, you know, I try to not and not be Saw. David's David's an odd, remarkable, amazing story. It's all of those, It's all of it. It's the it's the triumph and the failure me. He failed as big as you can fail.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't think too many people have done worse than he's done, and yet somehow he had this heart after God too. And so it's very relatable, I think to anybody. I think that's why I'm so excited they were doing something like that. It's like that is so relatable to anyone. A lot of people's maybe people like, well, I'm never gonna be the king of anything, but that's just the power of his story and just like.

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Speaker 2: You don't, he didn't have it altogether, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think we look at these the especially a Bible characters, like there's these mythical creatures like they're these saints and wow, man, these just had so many flaws and yet to did incredible things as well.

00:10:27
Speaker 2: I'm gonna run into something by it.

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Speaker 3: We just talked about on a podcast last week, and I was talking about misunderstood finger quote villains.

00:10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I bring up Judas.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, Okay, we can get going on this and so and and I was talking to one of my friends who reads the Bible every day. Yeah, and to most people just to name Judas because of how it's referenced for the most part obviously is one who betrays He betrayed Christ, and how I has suggested on a microphone to my friend on second look, if Jesus is all knowing, which he is, that had to be put into place, Yeah, for all of it to happen, the crucifixion, So.

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Speaker 2: Judas would not have been there to begin with.

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Speaker 3: If it weren't for Jesus. Judas betrayed Jesus just as was predicted. Judas is seen as the betrayal.

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Speaker 2: Very much so.

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Speaker 3: But my presentation, I wouldn't even say argument, because we were just looking at characters fictional or nonfiction that we have a signed attack too. We did ben Atic Arnold and it was, but we spent a lot of time on Judas and I really feel like, oh, Judas kind of gets the raw end sometimes because I feel like he was selected to do just that, and without him doing just that, the Crucifixion, all of it, it would have happened.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: And so in conclusion of my mini ted talk, I said, I feel like we should give Judas a second look and maybe understand that Christ understood what needed to happen for what needed to happen to happen.

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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that theory.

00:12:18
Speaker 3: Let's go, let's.

00:12:19
Speaker 2: Just go deep in. This was literally on the last podcast we did.

00:12:22
Speaker 1: Okay, so I just got to be a part of this movie called The Last Supper. And the reason I was interested in being a part of the movie and helping get the word out about this movie is because it took the different look the Last Supper. Obviously Jesus the central character, but really it's Peter and Judas. It's through the lens of Peter and Judas, both of whom you know, don't have a great part in this story of the Last Supper. Well with Judas. What I was so moved by is that I was is that moment in at the scene Okay, let me, let me just set the scene there in Jesus like, okay, let's have this passover meal. It's this it's it's passed over time, and let's have this meal and get get it all together, and just like they would normally do year after year after year, but this time it was different. And he began to wash their feet, and that's the famous where he starts washing Peter's feet. He's like, what are you doing? Peter's like, what are you doing? He's like, yeah, I'm so you're I don't even I'm not even worthy to tell your sandals.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: And she's like, this is I'm showing you, I'm serving you, and this is what I want you to do others and he washes Judas and he's and you're like and then there's and I was really struck by the movie. I was like, I was like, I've been I've been a follower of Jesus. I've been a Christian most of my life since i was a kid, and I've studied and I've read the Bible and I've heard all the stories, and yeah, I saw it a brand new again because I saw this moment where Jesus changes the whole thing and he takes the bread as he normally would pass around, but this time he breaks it and he's like, this is my body.

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Speaker 2: Actually I'm about to be broken for you in it.

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Speaker 1: And you see the guys, you see these disciples, you see these brothers, these friends, they're just friends, right. We know him as the Saint Thomas and Saint Matthew and sat these were just these were normal guys and they're trying to figure it out. And which is crazy is most of them I learned through this Most of them were teenagers or early twenties. So think about that, they're eighteen nineteen years old and this they're about to change the entire world. And Jesus like, he changes the whole thing. He's like, I'm breaking this, and he starts handing the bread because this is actually my body. And they're just they're looking a each other like, whoa, this is different. This is not how this normal goes. And he takes the cup and he's like, and this is my blood. This was about to happen.

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Speaker 2: And when you once you remember me when you do this.

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Speaker 1: And yet he and he but he gives the bread and he's he gives it, and Judas and Peter are there, and I'm thinking I just saw it brand new because I'm thinking, Wow, this is the picture the forgiveness of God that all for me, for you, for everybodyho's listening to this. How powerful that even though Jesus knew what was coming, he knew that he was about to go to the cross, they did not understand. They were still trying to figure it out, like what was he talking about. He's like, it's all coming down to it's all about to happen. I'm about to be killed for the sins of the world. And yet he knew that one of them. He's looking at one of them, and you're going to deny me. You're about to I know you're going to go and say, even though you say you're gonna be with me till the end, you're about to say you don't.

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Speaker 2: Even know who I am.

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Speaker 1: When a little girl asks you, aren't you with him? And you're gonna say, no, I don't even know who that is. And then Judas, you're about to go for some money, turn me in, And that kind of what you're kind of getting at, that to me shows the side of the Gospel, of the good News, of this message.

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Speaker 2: It puts it.

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Speaker 1: In a in a powerful way of like, man, Jesus knew this, like you said, and yet he's he's like, I'm doing this for you.

00:16:07
Speaker 2: You know I know what you're about to do. This is still for you.

00:16:09
Speaker 1: And that's man that And then when I saw I saw myself, I just saw myself in that in those guys. How much in me is is a man. Sometimes I'm Peter and I'm the bodyguard Jesus. I will no one's gonna take you. I will go with you to the end. And then I found myself through my actions, through my words denying him. I found myself betraying. I find myself in the same place. And so I think that's why that that picture is there, is to help people, to help me and to help us remember that this was this, This was for This is for those who were going to betray into into wrong Jesus, and yet it was for them and for the for the world, for all of us because we're all in that basket, none of us. It may look a little bit different, but we're all in that in that basket with those guys. And so that that's been such a a beautiful picture reminder to me this this kind of this Easter season, because of being a part of that movie and helping get that made and showing that picture to people again of just how that moment.

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Speaker 3: So would you support my theory of since Jesus is all knowing and he knew that he was going to do it and that needed to happen, that he I don't think he should just be universally be the bad guy.

00:17:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

00:17:26
Speaker 3: You don't have to agree, by the way, you can you can totally no, no, no, A year a moron, because I hear that.

00:17:29
Speaker 2: All day, all day, every day. That's all I hear all day, not I think, I mean, there's not.

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Speaker 1: No, there's not a lot of people been named Judas since then, and.

00:17:38
Speaker 3: Exactly a couple of names that have died Judas ate off. There have been a few of these that we just don't do anymore. Yes, Judas bonesy No, none, none of that. Judas Bones is not happening. But yeah, there is. There's a reason for that. But yes, I mean it was. That was part of the plan and Judas was Yeah, Jesus part the plant. And so I will say this, and this is not to be over spiritual, but if we throw Judas away, we must well throw everybody else away. Exactly my point. That's what over spiritual. That's just talking about the topic we're talking about. Yeah, it's you know, because who any of us? Who?

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Speaker 2: Who? Who has it?

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Speaker 3: Toget who wouldn't Well, I see a bit again. I say, I try to be sold about. I want to be more David. But there's definitely Sall on me. There's definitely David in me. There's definitely Judas. We all it's it's this, we're all that For me, I'm just trying to push down the ones that the characteristics I don't like, and really trying to accentuate the ones that I do. Yes, you did no Greater Love for the Last Supper? Yes, And that you're in credits is a different song and you know it's no Gary Love is and in credits, so that is that's when it airs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, how much of it? Do they run the whole song? And are you mad people walk out during your song? Exactly?

00:18:50
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is the only I just want to say, hey, guys, wait because as soon as starts trolling on, everybody's getting up.

00:18:54
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, wait, wait, let's please listen to this song. Did they they run the wholesome? They run the all song? Yeah? And did they tell you write a song for it? Or did you have it?

00:19:04
Speaker 1: That's how I got involved with the movie. Obviously it started with music. They didn't come to me, Hey, we know you make.

00:19:08
Speaker 3: Great movies, because that's never happened. And the first started with music. And these guys, the producers and people putting this movie together, said you have any music for this, any song for this that could work. And I said, well, let me see the can I see this screening of it? That showed me kind of this the idea of what they had so far, and I was like, I really like this, Like would you like to be involved in a greater way? And I was like, I was like yeah, And I was like, I think I have a song. And so the crazy thing is I had just gone out to some valley, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: Tyler Hubbard had asked me and a couple of songwriters he wanted to put together a little songwriting camp together out out there at Ernest Hemingway's house. Mattgic it's a part of that, right, yes, yeah, one of our buddies here, Yeah, Matt and Corey Crowder and Magic.

00:19:54
Speaker 2: It's Tyler Hubbard.

00:19:56
Speaker 1: Hey, would you get wet to come out and we're gonna write at Ernest Hemingway's place.

00:19:59
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, that'd be so cool.

00:20:01
Speaker 1: And it's this obviously it's historical landmark and you can use the basement and a lot of poets come and write poetry there, something and things. So we were writing and I thought, oh, this is my chance to you know, write some country music, and that's be fun. I don't ever get in that lane hardly ever. And as soon as I get there, they're like, hey, we want to write a song with you. I write like in your World. I'm like okay. I was like okay, and they're like and Matt Jenkins said, you know, I've just been thinking about this.

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Speaker 2: Line.

00:20:29
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this verse no greater Love and John fifteen he just said, he said, no greater love than this, that a man laid down his life for his friends.

00:20:36
Speaker 2: This is in January. Okay.

00:20:38
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm thinking, I just keep thinking about that verse, there's no greater love than a man laid down his life for his friends. And have you read Have you never a song like that? It's like, I don't.

00:20:49
Speaker 2: He said, what about that? So let's do it?

00:20:51
Speaker 1: And so we wrote this song, no Greater Love, and had this made this demo and it's really beautiful. I think it's a powerful, powerful lyric and the idea of trading the crown of Jesus, trading the kind of the crown of glory for crown of thorns and just this the sacrifice right. And a couple of weeks later, I get approached with this movie do you guys, have you have a song that could work with this? And I was like Wow, I think this I've played on this song. I was like, I got this demo. I haven't played for anybody. I just wrote this song with some friends. Let me play this demo, and.

00:21:20
Speaker 2: They're like, this is the song, this is perfect for this.

00:21:22
Speaker 1: So it was one of those moments where I feel like things were lined up and I was like, let's do it. So I got involved in not just a song for the movie, but just just helping shape a.

00:21:32
Speaker 2: Little bit more. That's pretty cool.

00:21:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like your world's are you're expanding? Yes, oh so so fun. But the expansion is cool because it's you're getting involved in things by doing what you already do. Yeah right, yeah, but it's yes, other things. Yeah, it's just really cool to see the growth of like what you do and how it's incorporated into other projects.

00:21:54
Speaker 2: And it was natural for me.

00:21:55
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like a movie or a subject I don't know anything about. So it was really good, Like this worked for me because it's like, yeah, I do.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: I would love to share more about this and help people see.

00:22:06
Speaker 3: The Good Friday Show was so good last year. The first time i'd been was it was awesome and uh, but you know, frankly speaking, I was like, I want to go. I think it's going to be good. I like Chris, so I hope it's good because if not, it's gonna be kind of awkward. If I'm like, I'm not going.

00:22:20
Speaker 2: To tell you it's not, I wouldn't be like, man, lackluster show. Huh.

00:22:24
Speaker 3: But it's always weird to watch your because I don't know you in that way, meaning I know what you do, I know your music.

00:22:30
Speaker 2: I've never been to a concert.

00:22:32
Speaker 3: I don't go to anybody's concerts anymore because either I'm on the road or I'm asleep.

00:22:36
Speaker 2: That's it. And so we go. We were very excited about it, and it was it was it was awesome.

00:22:41
Speaker 3: Thank you, yeah, and thank you You've done what I've found. If I'm remembering this correct, I think you said that night you were like, we're doing it again next year?

00:22:50
Speaker 2: And then I don't do you put tickets on sale?

00:22:52
Speaker 3: Right? Then this thing's sold out? So that back to the Gills. Is it sold out again? This year?

00:22:57
Speaker 2: Sold out? By I dinna bring my in laws though? Do you have do you have a couple of extra in case we decided to come?

00:23:02
Speaker 3: I know some people so we can get you, we can get you in.

00:23:04
Speaker 2: Where's the fun thing?

00:23:05
Speaker 3: Man?

00:23:05
Speaker 1: Is that we sold This is the earliest it's ever sold out this year and it's our ninth year. And what I love about it is I didn't market there's no marketing of anything. It just says good Friday in Nashville. There's no names on the poster. No one even knows who's going to play because I have it's surprises or but in the past I have said, hey, it's me and here's a few people, and then I have surprises. This year, I didn't even put anybody on there, and so that is really special to me that people just want to come. They know it's going to be a special night and they just want to be there. And it's filled up and it's going to be I can tell you it's going to be incredible.

00:23:38
Speaker 2: It's all.

00:23:39
Speaker 1: It's gonna be the night of nights. If you're if you can, it's gonna be streamed. If you can't, if you're can't get to Nashville or not there. But it's it's a really beautiful night.

00:23:48
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor, and we're back on the Bobby cast.

00:24:03
Speaker 3: I want to ask you a question about your job. Yes, we both love our jobs. Our jobs are a massive part of who we are. Hopefully they're not all of who we are, right But being so immersed in your work, how do you keep it fresh, especially something that is thousands of years old? How are you able to constantly keep it fresh? In the music side of things, Sure, anything creative, anything, because.

00:24:37
Speaker 2: You can go hymns.

00:24:38
Speaker 3: I mean we can walk through even Yeah, you know the eighties and nineties and when I started to from Carmen, I'd go to Carmen Show's or you do Jars.

00:24:47
Speaker 2: Of Klay Newsboys, all of that.

00:24:49
Speaker 3: Like, there has been Yeah Christian music and always yeah sonically, but the message is the same. So how do you make it different when it's kind of the message should remain somewhat the same.

00:25:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean I think it's just been something that I didn't first of all. And I mean this, I never chose this. I feel like it chose me. This is something that I feel called to since I was a kid, and it's a it's like a burning passion in me. I never thought it would be music. I thought it would be something to help people connect with God. I didn't know it would be music, but so that this, this, this whatever, this pool inside of me as is something that I didn't I don't have to keep trying to keep going.

00:25:37
Speaker 2: It's just it's always there, like angles on songs.

00:25:41
Speaker 3: Because even in country music, which is always evolving and changing and you have so much more to work with, it feels like than the message. Even these guys here, my friends are like, we keep writing the same song over and over again. We just got to find a slightly different way.

00:25:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:25:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're doing it on something that's been running over for thousands of years, thousands of years, and I just got which we can get into. I just got to be a part of a song that's literally eighteen hundred years old. It will be the earliest song ever ever found in our faith that we're just we're about to put out. It's a whole another, it's a documentary everything. It's insane. We can get to that.

00:26:12
Speaker 3: But this is.

00:26:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always trying to help people. Here's what I try to do for me. It's help.

00:26:19
Speaker 1: I've always said I want to help people see. If I can help people see and then they'll sing the more you see the more you sing. And what I mean by that is, if for me and my songs, if I can help give people a picture in their heart, in their mind of God's goodness, his grace, his mercy, his forgiveness, his glory, and write that in a way that helps people see, then.

00:26:43
Speaker 2: You can't help but praise. If I can help people.

00:26:45
Speaker 1: See it, and then then they'll they'll praise God. And for me, it's always been about I think the beautiful thing is is it's always been about the song for me, helping people connect with the song. It's not been about, Hey, I've got to build my brain, and to me, I've never tried to do that.

00:27:01
Speaker 2: I've just tried to help. I've tried to hopefully just the song is.

00:27:05
Speaker 1: The song is what this is the star, The song is what is connects with people and so it's it's it's just pushing for the best songs possible. And you know, just lately with this song Holy Forever, it's been another moment like I've had these moments along with this.

00:27:21
Speaker 2: It's almost almost.

00:27:22
Speaker 1: Thirty years now, man, thirty years of touring and traveling, and I've had these moments, these like these little marking moments of like these songs that I can just look and goues that was the kind of temple in that in that moment and this and to be this far along and have it and God give me a song like Holy Forever that's really connected around the world again. And it's been so it's been so special. And I can tell you when when we were when it was writing it, I was thinking, Okay, this feels like I always I never feel this, but when I felt, I sent a text to a friend of mine said, I feel like this song is going to be really really special in some way and I and it's been.

00:28:03
Speaker 2: It's been, It's been incredible.

00:28:05
Speaker 3: If I wrote songs like you, I would send every song to a different friend so I could always say I texted this song to a friend and knew it was going to be special, so I wouldn't be lying. I would just text different friends all one song. I'd be like, this song, you have it down, it's on record. I have said this song is a very special. Yeah, yeah, whenever, because I want to hear the story about this song that yeah. But to me, there wagon will which was I could Bob Dylan semi finished demo that existed randomly was never put out in the catch from old Crow finishes writing it, yes, and then wagon will becomes massive.

00:28:40
Speaker 2: They do it, then Darius does it.

00:28:41
Speaker 3: So that's a version of of a story that I think of when it's like an old song that isn't totally done is then finished and then is I want.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: Saya but just but relevant? Yes?

00:28:54
Speaker 3: Right, brought back to life? Yes, So give me your version of this that you're talking about. This song is six hundred years.

00:29:00
Speaker 2: Old, teen hundred years old. So I got to approach this this year.

00:29:04
Speaker 1: I mean this last fall with this guy from his name is Ben Fielding and he's he's a songwriting friend. He said, hey, I want to connect you with this with this friend of mine. He's this he's a brainiac. His name is John Dickinson and he's he's from Australia. And he said, I've got this song. I've got I want somebody to bring this song back. He goes, there was this piece of scrap paper that was found in Egypt, in this a town called oxy Reinos in Egypt, and he said, it's in a vault in Oxford. Now it's and it's just a little piece of scrap paper and it's the earliest known him. I just known song with musical notation, has musical notation on the notation makes no sense to us. I don't even understand what it is. But it's in that time and it's dated to the third century, so the two hundreds, and this is and it's a piece of a hymn and it's missing about they said, missing about ten to twelve words, but it's got like twenty five thirty words on it and they're beautiful and they're powerful. He said, we've translated, and it's translated, and here is the old melody. And I can't really it's it's really interesting melody. But the like, would you and Ben this other songwriter friend, would y'all be interested in maybe bringing this to life again and bringing this back and bringing this hymn? And he said, we're making a document documentary because there's so many things about this hymn they're special, and so we did, and so it releases in a week from now and it's called the First Hymn And the lyrics are beautiful.

00:30:40
Speaker 3: I think this week, Mike, right, because it's daring this Yeah, So it's out this Friday.

00:30:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, or is it right now. I think it'll be out now.

00:30:46
Speaker 3: Hey, it's out now, it's out now, it's out now. Okay, it's out now.

00:30:49
Speaker 1: So the first hymn, and when you hear this, here's here's here's some I wish I could tell the backstory for everybody who listens this, but's here's a song. But here's why this is such a big deal is to think about these words that are being sung are not only I mean almost almost two thousand years old. This would have been the grandkids of the disciples, right, This had been that generation, and this is what they were singing. This was a time when those who that were spreading this message of Christianity would have been killed. They were trying to wipe Christianity out. This is under incredible persecution. So obviously it's anonymous. Did these guys who wrote this or make it or were singing this, did they even make it?

00:31:36
Speaker 2: Who knows? But would they ever.

00:31:37
Speaker 1: Dream that wherever they were in their little cave singing this song together or their little house together, that eighteen hundred years from now, that this would be on a thing called Spotify or Apple Music and people be starting to sing this in the church, be starting to sing this again. That's powerful to me. There's a couple of things. There's the last line of the hymn, says and to the you wrote or there's on there, that's on there, he says, to the only Giver of all good gifts, I'm in, I'm in. And the guy the this historian who said why this was so important is in that day and time, pagan worship mostly to Zeus and other gods would to to worship them. To go into any kind of worship service, quote unquote, you would start with to the Giver of all good gifts. And that's how all the worship would start to the Giver of all good gifts, he says. And for this, for this little ragtag remnant of people to end their song with to the only Giver of all good gifts was quite a it was just such a pushback to society and culture. And it's it's powerful and I think that it's a it's just a powerful thing. And I and it's just so to be a part of that. And like you said, to what kind of music, what kind of songs have that kind of history? You know, I was thinking about this, just this long line of of of songs and music that we just try to keep carrying on throughout the ages.

00:33:07
Speaker 2: Is so special.

00:33:09
Speaker 1: One are the music notes look like because yeah, they look like they look a little bit like they almost look like Chinese characters or something like that.

00:33:20
Speaker 2: Not like the stick with the fat little moment, not like that, not like that.

00:33:23
Speaker 1: In the melody we have a you hear a girl singing this week, we brought in this Egyptian girl just to the hook. Is the is the ancient melody? And ah I mean, I mean the word I'm in. But they would sing it all together. Ah I mean, I mean, ah, I mean, and so we have this guitar line and she's singing that over and so again. Most people hear that will not have any context for it. But that is that literally, that melody was eighteen hundred years ago. When you finished that, did I don't know?

00:34:00
Speaker 2: What does that feel like? Because you're just kind of redid it? I mean I was.

00:34:06
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of trembling because I was like, I just want to carry I want to carry this well out. I mean, I want to get it right. I want to do the very best I can. And with such a gift, such a song that you know, was meant a lot to those people and means a lot today.

00:34:23
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I was. You just never know. I never know. Songs are look, this is going to be.

00:34:28
Speaker 3: This is it?

00:34:29
Speaker 1: You know, but especially something like this. She's like, this is the best I can do, and I hope, I hope it does a justice.

00:34:36
Speaker 3: So the first him you can listen to it, but also the it's on Wonder the platform, Wonder if you want to watch the documentary. What if we're going to throw this at you? What if they find an older song? And now this is now the second hymn?

00:34:48
Speaker 2: Have you thought about that?

00:34:49
Speaker 3: I definitely have, because all of a sudden I have, And so I went back ten times. It's like, should we really call this that person? Because obviously there's the psalms. The songs are older than that, sure, and.

00:35:03
Speaker 1: But this is the first ever, it is the first song ever found with musical notation, and it's to find they said, the chances of finding something would be who knows, hundreds of years from now, and so then I I won't have to deal with it something else, but they'll.

00:35:18
Speaker 2: Just be my luck.

00:35:18
Speaker 3: Though they find another one like a week after we're done it, and it's a week earlier. Yeah, and it's like the real first him and I'm like, oh man, this is from the fifties, yes, the year fifty. I feel like there would be an immense pressure on you to love Christmas, to love Christmas, not even for the Jesus element, just you just need to like embrace Christmas. And if you're not Chris Christmas, I mean your name is Chris and Christmas. Tomlin, Yeah, I feel like there's a pressure that you got to be mister Christmas just around the house. No, not definitely, not around the house, but like the biggest light displayed, like you gotta be.

00:35:56
Speaker 2: Do you feel that pressure? Hilarious? Love?

00:35:58
Speaker 3: I love how this goes. Where do we went from here to Christmas?

00:36:02
Speaker 2: Like that that quick?

00:36:03
Speaker 3: Well, I just think when you're talking about things, I'm like, you know, in my mind, I've got eight things one at once, Like and We've had the discussion where I think everybody X like like they have to be on their p's and q's around you because.

00:36:13
Speaker 2: You'll just literally call God and be like and tell on them.

00:36:16
Speaker 3: Like I told you that last time that people they probably act in a way towards you where they can't be themselves and I found myself the victim of that because we're having a party and I told Caitlin, I was like, hey, let's invite Chris.

00:36:25
Speaker 2: But we were doing like Casino night. I was like, I wish gonnavite.

00:36:27
Speaker 3: Chrismas you know, and then she goes, you're doing exactly what you would. You said, I loved thank you for your so yes, and so I'm okay. So yeah, Christmas. I love Christmas.

00:36:37
Speaker 1: I love it anyway, but yes I do. I'm not mister Christmas, but yeah, I've I love it. I love the music Christmas, I love I love everything about it, Like you have.

00:36:47
Speaker 2: To be the best present giver of all the nephew.

00:36:49
Speaker 3: I would just think that that would be the pressure I would put on myself because that's what you're out constantly singing the word. Yeah, and what's more the word than Christmas? And I'm on tour every Christmas. I do a Christmas tour every Christmas. Yeah. Yeah, the gifts would have to be a plus if I were known for Christmas.

00:37:08
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:37:08
Speaker 3: Now I'm known for my vision, so that's a pretty easy one. Yeah, because I can just be like I'm blind, you know, so I don't really have anything that I have to do. But when do you When do you put up the Christmas tree at your house?

00:37:19
Speaker 2: The Christmas tree is right after Thanksgiving? Okay, so that's normal. Yeah, that's boring.

00:37:26
Speaker 3: We should change that you should do like when you text all your friends, this one is that you should do.

00:37:30
Speaker 2: July fifth, and you're like, you're like it, you know, follow me July fifth. So I feel like, guys, Christmas every day.

00:37:39
Speaker 5: The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the Bobby Cast.

00:37:54
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a really common thread between country music and Christian music. I used the word, I'll use the term very wide open Christian music. I feel it's a very common threat. I think country music is very much based and it's belief in God, and I think that's why so many artists, yeah, are drawn to you. And I think the project that you did with a lot of the country artists, I would imagine those were all pretty quick yess.

00:38:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really fun man, it was Yeah. It was something that I wasn't even trying to do. I think we talked about that, but I wasn't even trying to do it. It just it was just happened through just natural relationship and just a relationships started happening and started we should we should smash up our genres.

00:38:33
Speaker 2: It's all because it's come from this.

00:38:34
Speaker 1: Obviously, country music came from the church, and you got the rhymen, which is a church. You got the whole thing comes out of the church. Rock and roll camp, everything comes out of the church. You want to talk, if you want to get really going as far as art and everything like that, obviously that's where it all came from. It goes its other way, but yeah, I mean, yeah, it's so so close.

00:38:53
Speaker 2: We went to Austria. My wife and I did never been to Austria before, so we went to Austria and it.

00:38:57
Speaker 3: Is amazing, right, growing up, didn't go anywhere, right, so now it's like I'm just trying to go see stuff.

00:39:03
Speaker 2: And we go into a church that was two thousand years old whatever it was, I mean, it was almost there.

00:39:13
Speaker 3: That's when I feel history, That's when I feel like the gravity of existence. And I've been into a couple of churches like that, but we went into one in Austria that was like you like to fill your guts. Moved around a little bit because of everything that has happened underneath that roof. You ever go when you're traveling internationally, do you ever go look at some of these really old worship I'll just call them places a worship.

00:39:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let me kind of tell you about one, please, and it'll be you're like, well, duh, but no, I was in Israel and I got to go to the site of the cross. And now in Israel, if you've been, you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't, I haven't, so I'm not gonna know. They build churches over everything. So it's not what you think in your mind, because they've made the the church came, the Catholic Church came and built just to memorialize it or church enshrine the place.

00:40:04
Speaker 2: Built these churches over these places.

00:40:06
Speaker 1: So you're going inside a church to see like where the cross was or the tomb into tomb, and you're one of these huge, huge.

00:40:12
Speaker 2: Churches and they're ancient, ancient, ancient.

00:40:15
Speaker 1: But at the side of the cross there was a place they have the stone where they where they say and that Jesus was laid when they took him off the cross. This is the stone where Joseph would have taken him off of arimathea, and they laid him down to dress the body. And you're talking about this is something I'll never forget because here's what I saw is I saw this was a normal day in the line of people that were lined up, I mean hundreds of people for hours. And I looked at our tour guide and I was like, is this suck this every day? And he said, obviously not now for the wars things like that. He goes, this was a few years ago. He said, it's every day. And when it was every kind of person, Bobby, it was like people, it was like beautiful African dress, it was Asian, it was it, it was poor, it was rich. It was like every kind of person you can think of and look and looks like lined up. And I watched and as everyone approached that stone, and I watched these ladies just kneel at that stone and just I mean, and and kiss that stone. And I thought, wow, it just it was a little picture of heaven for me. I was like, wow, this is you know, sometimes we think heaven looks like America or something like that. Maybe it's like it looks nothing like that. This is this was the whole world. This was a Tuesday in the world, every kind of person's lined up, and He's like every day they line people in this line just to stand there and just to just to kiss the stone where Jesus was laid. And it was one of the you're talking about everything inside you moving. I just stood over to the side and just watched and just watched and just watch people in their active worship really just come and kneel there and just thank God and just you could tell people and they would just some people would pray. Some people would just have a moment and just stop and think and just pray. And you can tell their their their gratitude and their heart. And I was like, man, what a picture of what a beautiful picture of heaven. So when I when I get to travel, I try to go to these places and just so moved.

00:42:31
Speaker 3: Worship has gone through. We talked about this a bit, like stylistic changes over the past twenty years from when you started, which isn't because again it's not like you were seven doing this, No, you know, your origin is not that like it was a bit later. Yeah, Stylistically, what have you seen change in concert?

00:42:50
Speaker 2: Like live live?

00:42:52
Speaker 3: I don't just wanna say music because it's more of an experience. But with Christian music, what have you seen stylistically change in the past twenty years?

00:42:59
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, so much. What's so much more popular I think across our country and it's so much. It continues to grow, which is awesome as far as the live experience and concert But I would say from when I started, it was a little simple songs of a chorus and that's what was like shaking the church. It's like, oh, mysh, these guys are these guys are radical. They're singing a with a guitar and don't bring the drums. It was it was it was still literally that still like don't don't bring the drums and uh, okay, we'll let the guitar.

00:43:34
Speaker 2: But that's that's pushing it.

00:43:36
Speaker 1: And now you know churches are filled with uh, just modern music and it's and that's that's how it's changed. But in a way, but I still feel people, I still I still see still, even even the younger generations, you still see people longing for the simplicity, longing for not all the lights and the sound and the everything, but but more of just what's real. I think, more than anything, more than anything now people are just learning what is what is real? Don't don't just put on a show, but what is what is really real? People are longing for what's real, and that's what That's what I try to hopefully get people in my concerts and and my other friends as well as show people what's real. And but yeah, I mean it's it's definitely progressed a lot, especially.

00:44:24
Speaker 2: In the church.

00:44:25
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

00:44:39
Speaker 3: When you say what's real, what I think about is and I think you're referring to like authenticity, meaning you're not up. And I think in part of what I do as well, like if I'm up and I'm perfect and shiny, that's not real. And I can act like a better version of what I am, but that is not going to resonate. It may feel better to me to be like, look at me, life's great, got it all figured out, follow along and again for my ego, that might feel pretty good, but I also know that people are not going to connect with that. They're actually going to connect with me when it's like, yeah, I stuck at this, I struggle with this.

00:45:11
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm good at this I and I when.

00:45:14
Speaker 3: You say that, that's what I hear, like, if you're able to share not just the glossy part of life or worship.

00:45:21
Speaker 1: Exactly, because no one that doesn't help anybody. And that's what I think when I say, people are looking longing for the truth, long for real. Don't just put on just don't don't gloss everything over and like, oh everything is good. You give your life to God and everything's roses. It's man, it's life is hard, life is unfair. Life is comes at everybody in such hard ways. And but what do you have in those moments? I heard somebody recently say, you know, when the storms come, it separates the players from the pretenders.

00:45:54
Speaker 2: And that's the truth in life.

00:45:56
Speaker 1: When the storms come, that separates everybody from those who are pretending and those who are really there, who are really like and and that is that hit me, you know that's then that's that's that's his oldest Jesus teachings.

00:46:10
Speaker 3: Right.

00:46:10
Speaker 1: You can build your house on the rock, you build your house in the sand, and the storms come, one's gonna stay, one's gonna crumble. And that's I think that's what people are looking for. And when I say real, that's what I mean.

00:46:21
Speaker 2: How long you been married? Fourteen years? What's what's what's what's the key? Yeah, the key is I'm sorry, well you forgive me. That is the key. I mean, that is the key.

00:46:38
Speaker 1: The key is just pretty is pride pushing pride down, pushing Saul, Yeah, pushing Saul away of like I you know, I deserve this or I rule this or whatever it's. It's that's the key I think is and I there's good days, and there's and there's days. I'm so blessed by Lauren because she's just so honest and so on me.

00:47:05
Speaker 2: It makes me better.

00:47:07
Speaker 3: And it's funny you lead with honest because my wife's and I'm ten years behind you. Is why I asked that, like in marriage, what we've married four four plus years? And yeah, my wife's honest. But sometimes that doesn't feel good, but it's greater, like it's it's needed. But she's like the first person that I trust to be honest with me. But sometimes it doesn't feel good. And the key for me so far has been when you said that, it resonated like crazy has been not to be so defensive.

00:47:41
Speaker 2: So quick, Yeah, so easy. I get so defensive me too, and to understand that do you know all that I'm doing? Do you know?

00:47:49
Speaker 3: Do you know?

00:47:50
Speaker 2: Do you know what's coming at me? Do you know all the things? I mean? Instantly? And then it's like that that does not work. That does not work, and.

00:47:58
Speaker 3: You have to.

00:48:00
Speaker 1: And can you catch yourself? And sometimes it takes me, you know, twenty minutes. Sometimes it might take me a couple of days, like, Okay, what am I doing? I'm really in a bad place here in my pride and in my defensiveness. And yeah, my wife is smarter than I am, which sucks, It does sucks.

00:48:18
Speaker 3: I mean, it's awesome, but it's the same, right, It's like your strength is your greatest weakness, your way. But it's like she she's smarter than I am. She's funnier than I am. She's funnier than I am in a world where I'm celebrated for being funny. And what drives me insane is that she has no need or desire to monetize it none.

00:48:39
Speaker 2: She does not want to be published. I'm like, you're wasting this talent. Look at this god given talent you have and it's just sitting here. Yeah, No, and now you know that.

00:48:48
Speaker 3: But for her, I also can accept her honesty most of the time and what I'm creating, and I think that's been so valuable, but very hard, especially at first. Yes, so she would tell me a joke wasn't funny, I be like, will you write it? And the first time she did and we wrote it, I was humbled. I couldn't have been more humbled. Wow, oh yeah, it's a terrible it's a terrible day, but a great day. But I was like, okay, if you think it's I did the Opry and so I'm doing the opera. I played Operty fifteen times or so. But like one of the times I did the Opry, I'm up and I'm telling a joke and I came off, and I'm just ready to be celebrated. Wait, a great job, great job. Just the natural you walk off stage. Part of it is, hey, everybody tell me how got I did? Even if I don't consciously say that, that's just of course you come off. Yeah, that's the expectation, because that's what happens a lot of times.

00:49:36
Speaker 2: They're just like, oh, you did great. And we walk off and we get in the car, and she was like, I said, hey, how do you think I went? And she goes. I thought it was fine. She goes, but and she.

00:49:44
Speaker 3: Alluded to one part of the set. She was like, that was too low hanging fruit for you, And I said, oh, oh, I was shocked. I was like, ohh, I was like what.

00:49:56
Speaker 2: Yes, she was like, there was too low. You're better than that. You can do better than that.

00:50:01
Speaker 3: I'm telling you this is like seven minutes after I'm off stage. I'm in the car ready to be my wife, who I love more than he'd be, like, oh, the best year. I let what everything you do is delightful. And so she's like, yeah, it's that fruits tool you get.

00:50:14
Speaker 2: You got to do better.

00:50:16
Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, then you do it. And she's like, well, I'm not the one that's whatever. We get home and like twenty minutes later she'd rewritten and it was better and I use and I used it.

00:50:25
Speaker 2: Am I special? And that hurt and it hurt.

00:50:30
Speaker 3: But again that that was a very minor storm, like you're talking about the storms right, yes, like that was a that was a single cell organism storm, yes, but was much stronger after And it's.

00:50:43
Speaker 2: Made me better at realizing Ah I need that honesty. Yeah, in many ways.

00:50:49
Speaker 3: And it's not just that like that's the funny version of it, but even in like I never grew up with a family, like I don't have I don't have family. You never have a family to have Christmas Eve with, Like her family bizarre foreign, not because they do anything weird. They're not naked or anything, but it's like I never did family together. Yeah, it's everybody being together. You're like watching a movie having waking all of it.

00:51:11
Speaker 2: And that was really difficult for me. And it's still foreign to me.

00:51:14
Speaker 3: But my wife, And the reason I ask about the wife is because I know and I just wonder how because we're similar, you're creating, you have to be constant.

00:51:26
Speaker 2: Yes, how your wife affects you in that situation?

00:51:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, she makes me. What she has done is made me such a better present to people. I don't know if she's really affected the music as much, but it's just the way I am with people, the way I connect with people, the way I talk with people, the way I understand things.

00:51:47
Speaker 2: She's helped me so much that I did not before.

00:51:50
Speaker 1: And most of my friends who have been with me, you know, I mean, I've got bandmates, right, that have been with me long way longer I've been married. They've known me longer than and all of them would say, you're such a better person, saying you're such a better person. And so that's that's that's amazing, you know, And that's and and that's marriage. Marriage is it's, it's it's it's no one, no one says marriage is easy, but it is a refining refine. It's such a refining thing. And you know, I'm so grateful for her and for my girls and three daughters, and they're amazing.

00:52:27
Speaker 2: Worship under the Stars.

00:52:28
Speaker 3: You're doing you're doing the series, so a couple of days in July and then in October.

00:52:34
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's in New York Baltimore doing Red Rocks. That's cool.

00:52:38
Speaker 3: Yes, not that they're not all cool, but that's that's cool. That's in Central Park. It's my first time there too. Oh yeah, that's cool too.

00:52:44
Speaker 2: And they're all cool. That's my point. They're all cool. Red Rocks, the Red Rocks. That's difficol. So what what's what's happening here?

00:52:52
Speaker 1: Which, you know, I just sometimes the settings are just so beautiful when it comes especially when it comes to music everybod settings are make music so great. But when it comes to especially when worship music, when you have beautiful settings, like when you're playing I played Red Rocks several times and always say, if you cannot, if you cannot help people connect with God at Red Rocks, you've got serious. You don't need to be you need to go sell houses or something, because you don't need to be in music, right because you just it's already the setting is so incredible.

00:53:22
Speaker 2: And so yeah, we want to put.

00:53:23
Speaker 1: Together some nights of just beautiful settings, beautiful evenings, good beautiful places, and have these beautiful nights so call worship under the Stars.

00:53:30
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe it grows from here.

00:53:32
Speaker 3: But this is our first three and the Pier six and Baltimore was this beautiful thing out in the Harbor Central Park and then Red Rocks and it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome. I want to end with this, and I want to indulge myself with a story from me. First, like five or six years ago I decided, may may be longer than that now, maybe ten years ago, I don't know. I decid I'm not gonna curse anymore. You used to love cursing used to be mused to be really great at it Olympic sports. For the Olympic sport, that's something I was gonna meddle. Yeah, I was gonna meddal challenged.

00:54:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was good at it. And I thought I'm done cursing.

00:54:08
Speaker 3: And not for any sort of moral reason, but because I didn't want to have it as a crutch when creating. So if I'm writing jokes, radio show, I was writing books, yes, I didn't want to be because it can be funny, it can also be a crutch that you use whenever you're not funny.

00:54:26
Speaker 2: And I wanted to challenge myself.

00:54:27
Speaker 3: So I really haven't sad a curse word in ten years or so, and so not as a celebration of myself. But then when people say a bad word around me, they'll be like, oh, I'm sorry. I start story because they know I don't curse, and I'm like, no, good Like I used to if people curse.

00:54:42
Speaker 2: Around you, I feel like they'd be like, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry.

00:54:45
Speaker 1: Chris really bothers me. It bothers me, It bothers the heck out of it. Yeah, when people say that, Yeah, when they're like so apologetic. It doesn't bother me, and people curse.

00:54:52
Speaker 2: Let me say that.

00:54:53
Speaker 1: It bothers me when people think that for some reason because I do what I do again, that they that that feels weird. I'm just like, come on, man, we're that's normal. I feel the same way. May not say it the same way, right, feel the same way. And yeah, it's always It's always bugged me so much, and I always all, you like, come on.

00:55:14
Speaker 2: I always like, come on, bro, don't say that. Same like I am. I'm good. I've heard it before.

00:55:18
Speaker 3: Same, but I wonder up to have it. And I knew, Like you're playing golf and someone's like, ah, bleep, they're probably oh sorry, sorry, sorry sorry, Yeah, like you.

00:55:28
Speaker 2: Still play, you're playing, yes, and you're coming. I know I haven't played. I heard my shoulder bad last year, so I stopped playing. And then here's the problem, Chris, I'm being honest.

00:55:35
Speaker 3: I started playing pick a ball, and that you're just did you if you totally don't like fully on pickaball? You're one of those guys. Yeah, pretty much. I have a court right, just see it when you walked in and did Yeah. And here's the thing, Chris, I'm glad you asked. Thank you for asking.

00:55:50
Speaker 2: We need to talk about this.

00:55:51
Speaker 3: I'm really into pickleball, and I'm gonna tell you, but I love golf. But here's the problem with golf.

00:55:55
Speaker 1: No, let's I want to talk to the difference between tennis and pickleball.

00:55:58
Speaker 2: I'd be happy to. But here's the problem with golf. It takes too long. And I play golf. I used play golf all the time to him, but I don't have three.

00:56:05
Speaker 3: Or four hours because I'm so insecure that I feel like I have to work all the time just to prove to myself I'm worthy that I don't block out the hours to go play golf.

00:56:13
Speaker 1: But I can go pickleball in an hour and you get a workout and you feel better all the things.

00:56:19
Speaker 2: And I love but I love golf. And yes, and you've been so I'm I'm playing your golf tournam probably the only time money.

00:56:24
Speaker 3: I'm gonna kill somebody with the ball. You know what I'm in though, for the Lord. I'm in, Chris, I will hit someone with the ball for the Lord. So have you played pickleball at all? Yes?

00:56:32
Speaker 1: I do like pickle ball, but it's like it's all my tennis friends are like, it's so much better than tennis, and I'm like, it's not.

00:56:39
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think it.

00:56:40
Speaker 1: Well, okay, here's one one of my best Everybody can play pickleball and everybody complaints this.

00:56:46
Speaker 2: I agree.

00:56:46
Speaker 3: One of my best friends in the whole world, groomsman Andy Roddick, former number one, just playing in the world.

00:56:50
Speaker 2: Pretty good.

00:56:50
Speaker 3: That's my guy, right, And so he makes fun of pickleballer's like crazy, like just really gives it to him, like that's yeah, you guys are laying and so he calls and he goes, hey, this is like a year and a half agod, maybe two years ago. He goes, hey, you're playing pickleball, right? So yeah, he said a little bit because Brett Eldridge, one of my best friends, had had the first court, like of our group, and so we'd all go to Brett's house and play all the time. And so I was like, yeah, I play, you know, maybe once a week, twice a week. And he says, uh, it's probably pretty easy, right. I'm like, well, you were number one in the world, like you won US Open. I feel like for you, it's gonna be pretty easy. He goes, okay, cool, I said, why you hate pickball? Because yeah, still hated. He goes, but I'm playing in a tournament like a week and a half for a million dollars. And I said, and you haven't played and you're playing wow, And he was like yeah, he guess it's on ESPN.

00:57:34
Speaker 2: And I was like, you know, hit, get around. He hit a little bit. First. He goes, why am I'm gonna work out a few days before? And he won? He won? He won? Yeah, No, he won.

00:57:44
Speaker 5: He won.

00:57:45
Speaker 3: So does that tell you how good he is or how lame pickleball is that you don't have to play it.

00:57:48
Speaker 2: Can be BA win A Yeah. I think it's both.

00:57:50
Speaker 3: I think one how good he is because he started playing when we were running together hard because he'd be gone for eight months at a time because tennis is international, he's all around the world, hardly ever home, but he'd be home four months a year and we would hang out all the time. And so we play golf and we started playing around the same time, and I watched him go from shooting one oh six to like seventy seven and about three months because his hand eye coordination. Yes, and so pickleball he started playing it and got real good, which, by the way, he tores meniscus like the day before the tournament still won, still one, which is crazy. So there's a lameness to it when it comes to tennis. But I like pickleball because the floor is higher, meaning you don't me Moss can play, yes, but if you to be good, like I could probably wax you pretty good right now back there, But yeah.

00:58:38
Speaker 1: You could, yeah, because I understand because I get out and hit my friends who play and they kill me. And I understand there's a skill too, there's strategy, all the things.

00:58:44
Speaker 2: But it's better than tennis. No, it's not.

00:58:46
Speaker 1: And what about pickleball on TV? That's what I really can't get in.

00:58:51
Speaker 3: Okay, do you watch? It's difficult for me too, and I will be full disclosure. I own part of a major league pickleball team.

00:58:56
Speaker 2: Okay, this is This is so good?

00:59:01
Speaker 3: Is another podcast and it's difficult at times. I don't think they have mastered. It reminds me of like the sixties when they started shooting football from the top of the bleachers and they really didn't have the angles or know how to. It feels like that right now that they've tried to make it tennis, and it's not. It's a different game, different games, So I don't feel like they've captured the content in a way that reflects how fun the game is.

00:59:23
Speaker 2: Probably so I think that needs needs to progress.

00:59:27
Speaker 3: But I do think that pickleballs is is like I'm watching Wimbledon. Not everybody can play tennis. Honestly, they can't not air bake up by tennis, right. And also, tennis, to me was a rich person's game. We didn't the equipment. You could buy a paddle now for like thirty bucks, the little plastic ball, a smaller court.

00:59:47
Speaker 2: Yes it's lame, but it's my lame, so I will defend it. It's it's not lame.

00:59:54
Speaker 3: I like it. It's a great game. Yeah, it's a great game. But I'm just saying it's that.

00:59:58
Speaker 1: When when I saw them trying to do it on TV, I was like, oh, yeah it does this is this is hard.

01:00:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like whiffle ball to baseball.

01:00:08
Speaker 3: It's kind of goofy. Yeah, but that doesn't mean it can't be fine competitive and you a little work out in, but it's better. I didn't like tennis. I never liked tennis.

01:00:19
Speaker 2: I loved it. Gosh, I loved it.

01:00:20
Speaker 3: I was never like an Andy Roddick. I always wanted to be. But you have a tennis Did you have tennis your high school?

01:00:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we did.

01:00:27
Speaker 3: I never was exposed to us. I probably would have been pro. If I'm being honest, right, how would I not?

01:00:33
Speaker 2: Of no doubt? Look at you? Look at me now?

01:00:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it couldn't be any more pro. Okay, look you guys follow Chris on Instagram at Chris Tomlin.

01:00:41
Speaker 2: Oh you're too kind. So after your Heart is in House of David Yep.

01:00:47
Speaker 3: Okay, song The Last Supper, which you are an executive producer of, Yes and No Greater Love is in the credits that don't don't stop watching until the song finishes.

01:00:56
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, doesn't.

01:00:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, once the movie ends, yes, so watch it, but then don't stop until the credits roll. That's right, okay, And then as of now you can watch the first time. The documentary is on the Wonder platform, and then the song as of now, because it is beyond April eleventh when this airs, it is on anywhere stream music.

01:01:15
Speaker 2: That's right.

01:01:16
Speaker 1: And the Good Friday. But you don't need to tell Good Friday to take it you're good. No, we're good, We're good. You don't have enough seats?

01:01:22
Speaker 2: Good Friday. Okay, that's good, and you're coming.

01:01:25
Speaker 1: We'll see which if your parent, if your bofe's parents come, we'll see.

01:01:28
Speaker 3: If they come, it's because they wanted to come to the show for you. If they don't come, it's because you didn't convince them. It wasn't enough of a flat strong and convinced them.

01:01:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah da.

01:01:37
Speaker 3: But either way, I will say I was genuinely moved, and I am jaded as all get out, and I was genuinely moved by the show.

01:01:45
Speaker 2: Well I appreciate that.

01:01:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, I know we get around it in all seriousness, full sincerity, genuinely. Well, I hope I appreciate you saying it, and I hope you can come this year because be really special. The part I didn't like, though, if I can, Yeah, the honest part is partly didn't like. This is your wife speaking right now?

01:01:59
Speaker 5: Yeah yah yah.

01:01:59
Speaker 3: It's when we pulled down because you were so nice to give us a good parking I saw who all the special guests would surprises were by the parking spots with the names on it.

01:02:06
Speaker 2: Mmm. So yeah.

01:02:09
Speaker 3: I mean that's it's you know, rich rich person problems. Yeah, but I saw like, oh Landy, and I was like, oh, there's no surprises now. I just saw everybody who's parking down there, and the parking Chris gave us. That's the part I didn't like, but you did. But the show was excellent. But next time, maybe I just blindfold myself and sit passenger and let my wife.

01:02:26
Speaker 2: Walk me in a bit. Idea, we're gonna put you out. No no, no, no, let's not do that. I like exactly where we were. We had the best parking spot. I got parking where you will not know.

01:02:35
Speaker 3: No, no, no no. I don't want to take this the wrong way. I want the same parking at Chris Tomlin. You guys, go see Chris. It's an excellent show. And Chris could to see you. Man.

01:02:43
Speaker 2: That was awes Thank you man, it's good to be here.

01:02:46
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.