Ep:126 Pennsylvania Bigfoot with Matt Arner

<v Speaker 1>Something caught my eye about seventy five to one hundred
<v Speaker 1>yards away. I see this tree. It's a smaller tree,
<v Speaker 1>but I see this tree shaking, violently shaking. So I'm
<v Speaker 1>sitting there and I don't see a squirrel, I don't
<v Speaker 1>see a deer, I don't see anything, but I see
<v Speaker 1>this tree, just this lone tree shaking. You know what,
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna tell you. I had my phone with me,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, you know what, I should have recorded that,
<v Speaker 1>but you don't think about that. So I finally got
<v Speaker 1>the phone up and then I started talking to whatever
<v Speaker 1>was out there. I'm sitting here. I'm like, I'm not
<v Speaker 1>here to hurt you. I'm not gonna harm you, you know,
<v Speaker 1>And I'm doing that whole de escalation. Well then it
<v Speaker 1>stopped because it was dead quiet out there, and there's
<v Speaker 1>migratory birds, there's animals, there's all sorts of stuff that
<v Speaker 1>should mean. There was woods. It was silent. You could
<v Speaker 1>have heard a pin drop.
<v Speaker 2>I'm joined by a guy with a great name, Matt Arner.
<v Speaker 2>Matt is a researcher out of Pennsylvania and one of
<v Speaker 2>the co hosts of Sasquatch Experience. Matt, you just recently
<v Speaker 2>got back from a conference. How is the conference this weekend?
<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm gonna tell you. I really had
<v Speaker 1>a great time. And Gwen, she's a good friend of ours.
<v Speaker 1>She did an outstanding job of putting this together. Last
<v Speaker 1>year there was a couple of hiccups and it was
<v Speaker 1>not her fault at all. This year, everything was ironed out,
<v Speaker 1>and uh wow, it was just a huge, huge event
<v Speaker 1>and we had a great time. We uh uh you know,
<v Speaker 1>it was a nice mix of speakers and uh A
<v Speaker 1>lot of us are local or regional, and the crowds
<v Speaker 1>that we had coming in to listen to us, uh,
<v Speaker 1>we were We're surprised at uh you know how many
<v Speaker 1>people uh were truly interested in hearing about, you know,
<v Speaker 1>the Bigfoot experience or hearing about experiences locally in Pennsylvania
<v Speaker 1>and such. It was a great, great event. We got
<v Speaker 1>a lot of new encounters that were that we documented,
<v Speaker 1>so we'll be following up with the with the witnesses, uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the next couple of weeks. And UH
<v Speaker 1>found a we actually had a little spot there that
<v Speaker 1>I said, you know, this has the potential to be
<v Speaker 1>a hotspot, and I probably shouldn't have said that because
<v Speaker 1>I had two separate people coming up telling me about
<v Speaker 1>instance that they had in that particular area. So yeah,
<v Speaker 1>so I I I think at that point, I'm I'm
<v Speaker 1>gonna say, Okay, this looks uh, this looks pretty promising
<v Speaker 1>to do some research. So uh so, but yeah, it was.
<v Speaker 1>It was a fantastic time. It was myself, Sean James Baker,
<v Speaker 1>you know, uh for the Sashquatch experience. We had Jamie
<v Speaker 1>and Jenny King at our table and they were speakers
<v Speaker 1>as well, and then we had you know other right
<v Speaker 1>across from this was Michael Cook and less Odell. They
<v Speaker 1>were fantastic, and then they had one or two other
<v Speaker 1>people that were that were local and I had some
<v Speaker 1>pretty interesting, uh pretty interesting encounters. So it was great,
<v Speaker 1>you know, like I said, to sit there and and
<v Speaker 1>uh you know, have everyone in that place and where
<v Speaker 1>they have the the festival at it's a great location.
<v Speaker 1>There was plenty of parking. Uh Like I said, the
<v Speaker 1>vendors were I think they had ninety five vendors, eight
<v Speaker 1>food trucks. Everything was top notch this year.
<v Speaker 2>What's your background? How did you stumble into all this?
<v Speaker 2>What were you doing before he started hunting?
<v Speaker 1>For absolutely. Yeah. No. So I've always had an interest
<v Speaker 1>in Bigfoot. And I remember I grew up in a
<v Speaker 1>military family and and uh we were uh my mom
<v Speaker 1>took me to the movies at the over at the
<v Speaker 1>Navy base, and I don't know what I had to be, like,
<v Speaker 1>you know, seven or eight years old, and it was
<v Speaker 1>the Legend of Buggie Creek, and uh, I thought that
<v Speaker 1>was the greatest movie of all time. So when I
<v Speaker 1>was younger, like, I used to always get like when
<v Speaker 1>I go to the library at the school and they
<v Speaker 1>hit that one section. Now, most of my friends would go,
<v Speaker 1>you know, and I was the same way too. You know,
<v Speaker 1>we'd all get the sports books and everything, but there
<v Speaker 1>was that one section where you had to reserve the
<v Speaker 1>books and they were all like, uh, you know, the
<v Speaker 1>classic books on Frankenstein or the Werewolf, and then they
<v Speaker 1>had books on Bigfoot. And I can't recall the book,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm kind of look, I got to look it
<v Speaker 1>up and I might have to talk to like Henry
<v Speaker 1>May about this. There was a book that I know,
<v Speaker 1>there was a book that like it had to be
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't the cover of the book itself, but like
<v Speaker 1>one of the first pages was and now I can
<v Speaker 1>recall what it was. It was a picture of Renee
<v Speaker 1>Dehindron standing next to this wooden uh Sasquatch statue.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, the wooden carving.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And I can't recall. And like I said, there,
<v Speaker 1>I know that that it's been in a few books,
<v Speaker 1>but I'll get with like A Henry or Daniel Perez
<v Speaker 1>to to try to track down which book that that
<v Speaker 1>might have been. But this was published in the seventies
<v Speaker 1>and I remember, you know, like just reading that book
<v Speaker 1>inside out, and you know, and of course, you know,
<v Speaker 1>all I want to do is go out to the
<v Speaker 1>Pacific Northwest because at the time that's where I thought
<v Speaker 1>that Sasquatches would be. And I was primarily here on
<v Speaker 1>the East coast. So then in the nineteen eighties, I
<v Speaker 1>was a little older. I had just gone into junior
<v Speaker 1>high school. When I went to junior high school, my mom,
<v Speaker 1>who's to stay at home mom, She decided to take
<v Speaker 1>your job because at this point, you know, I was
<v Speaker 1>a little more self sufficient. So she was working at
<v Speaker 1>an industrial park and it was kind of out in
<v Speaker 1>the middle of nowhere in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which isn't
<v Speaker 1>a big bigfoot area at all, but she had been
<v Speaker 1>called to work at night and they were doing a
<v Speaker 1>major promotion later that week, so they wanted everyone in.
<v Speaker 1>She drove out there, and again this is before cell phones.
<v Speaker 1>She came home and she's white as a ghost, and
<v Speaker 1>she tells, my dad, I just saw a monster. So
<v Speaker 1>of course my ears picked, you know. And what she
<v Speaker 1>said was there was a She described it as like
<v Speaker 1>a shaggy hippie heavy metal type thing that you had
<v Speaker 1>the long, greasy hair, all harry. And she said it
<v Speaker 1>came out of the woods. It was a road that
<v Speaker 1>had woods to the uh to the one side. On
<v Speaker 1>the other side was it was a farm. But at
<v Speaker 1>the farm there was also a pond there with all
<v Speaker 1>the cattails. And she said what happened was it walked
<v Speaker 1>out in front of her car, took about three steps
<v Speaker 1>to cross the road, which was at your normal sized,
<v Speaker 1>you know, back road, and she said it went right
<v Speaker 1>into the cattails. Well, she pulled into the farmer's driveway
<v Speaker 1>and she, you know, she was absolutely shocked what she saw.
<v Speaker 1>And then she nobody was there. So she ended up
<v Speaker 1>driving home and say, oh my god, oh my god.
<v Speaker 1>So unfortunately for me, I want to go out with
<v Speaker 1>my dad, you know, but but he was like, no,
<v Speaker 1>you got to stay here. So he ended up driving
<v Speaker 1>driving out to the spot. And it's funny because my
<v Speaker 1>mom's eighty seven years old now and anytime we go
<v Speaker 1>anywhere near that where the industrial park was, she calls
<v Speaker 1>it monster Road. Wow because of what she saw. Now,
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of and again I'm what I know now
<v Speaker 1>versus what I you know what I I didn't know
<v Speaker 1>back then, you know, could have been a big foot,
<v Speaker 1>could have been the way she described it, she described
<v Speaker 1>it very much like a big foot. She said it
<v Speaker 1>was bigger. She said it walked out. Uh, it only
<v Speaker 1>took a few steps to cross that road. And it
<v Speaker 1>wasn't even like it was running. It was just walking.
<v Speaker 1>She said. It had that long, greasy, matted hair. And
<v Speaker 1>she said it went right into the where the cattail
<v Speaker 1>swamp area was by the pond. So now looking back
<v Speaker 1>on it, we're very close to Bucks County, was very
<v Speaker 1>close to New Jersey, which is also home to the
<v Speaker 1>New Jersey Pinelands. And this was probably in a drive
<v Speaker 1>less than forty minutes from where the start of the
<v Speaker 1>Pinelands forest would be. So it's possible that this was
<v Speaker 1>you know, obviously, you know, Bigfoot doesn't know boundaries, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like state boundaries or part boundaries, So it's possible that
<v Speaker 1>this might have been a creature that you know, it
<v Speaker 1>was kind of exploring the area or spreading out. Whether
<v Speaker 1>there's a migration, I don't know, you know, we still
<v Speaker 1>don't know that. But anyways, as time went on, I
<v Speaker 1>kind of watched interest when I was when I got
<v Speaker 1>a little older, and all admit that, you know, when
<v Speaker 1>I was a teenager was all about playing football and
<v Speaker 1>you know, hockey and you know, and then girls and
<v Speaker 1>then you know, growing to college and everything. But then
<v Speaker 1>I always had that interest. And then back in the
<v Speaker 1>late nineties, I was going on that was back in
<v Speaker 1>the old days of the Internet. I was going on
<v Speaker 1>different like forums, and I remember the BFRO page. I'd
<v Speaker 1>always looked up to see what was happening in Pennsylvania.
<v Speaker 1>And I remember there was also the PBS. I think
<v Speaker 1>it was the PBS page or it maybe want to
<v Speaker 1>stay in Gordon's pages and I would look at them
<v Speaker 1>and I say, okay, you know what, there's there are
<v Speaker 1>reports here in Pennsylvania. And I was reading about reports
<v Speaker 1>most of them were in the southwestern part of the state,
<v Speaker 1>Chestnut Ridge area, but there was a few that were
<v Speaker 1>that were from our area. Then, you know, I started
<v Speaker 1>getting more interest in and I was always reading up
<v Speaker 1>about it. I got involved with a paranormal group just
<v Speaker 1>from a funny thing with my work. I worked as
<v Speaker 1>a police officer, so the whole paranormal thing. We had
<v Speaker 1>knowledge of one of the town's buildings, uh that was
<v Speaker 1>owned by the by the town itself, that was that
<v Speaker 1>was haunted. And I had friends of mine that were
<v Speaker 1>paranormal investigators, so I got them in to do a
<v Speaker 1>fundraiser for the town to do ghost humes. So I
<v Speaker 1>ended up becoming friends with them, and they knew I
<v Speaker 1>had an interest in bigfoot. So I was the bigfoot guy.
<v Speaker 1>And whenever stuff would come in, you know, where somebody
<v Speaker 1>would see something or or hear something or get footprints,
<v Speaker 1>they would always call me. And so at the time,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I had no idea what I was doing,
<v Speaker 1>you know, but I just did everything, you know, like
<v Speaker 1>I acted like almost like it was anything I would
<v Speaker 1>handle with my job. You know. I try to find
<v Speaker 1>the witnesses. I would try to, you know, get a statement,
<v Speaker 1>you know from them a verbal statement. If they wanted
<v Speaker 1>to send me an email or something in writing, that
<v Speaker 1>was even better. There was a few times that we
<v Speaker 1>had people that would uh, you know, I don't for
<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, they would they would say, hey, I saw something.
<v Speaker 1>But then when when he got to questioning them, you
<v Speaker 1>kind of tell that there was some some issues in
<v Speaker 1>their statement. And and and a lot of those witnesses
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't validate, you know, what they saw. But I've
<v Speaker 1>had other witnesses, and again it's from my training, is
<v Speaker 1>in my experience as a police officer that you know,
<v Speaker 1>I I saw people that gave me stone cold statements
<v Speaker 1>and and you know they have that uh uh physiological
<v Speaker 1>uh senses that that kind of you know come through
<v Speaker 1>when they're when they're giving the statement. Uh, when you
<v Speaker 1>see somebody that you know, I mean the hair is
<v Speaker 1>standing up, you know, when when they're because they were
<v Speaker 1>so scared. That's a big indicator that something did scare them,
<v Speaker 1>you know. And so there was a lot of this
<v Speaker 1>time that I was you know, building up these uh,
<v Speaker 1>these encounters, you know, from talking to witnesses. And then
<v Speaker 1>back in I believe it was twenty thirteen, I ended
<v Speaker 1>up going to one of the PBS events. They were
<v Speaker 1>doing a camp out in in Clairfield County. So this
<v Speaker 1>is a great sort I mean, I go up there.
<v Speaker 1>It's Eric, Eric Altman's Stan Gordon, all these all these
<v Speaker 1>famous you know, bigfoot people from Pennsylvania legend and the legends.
<v Speaker 1>I know no one there because I'm coming from the
<v Speaker 1>Poconos area, Pennsylvania. I don't know. You know, I've talked
<v Speaker 1>to these guys on the phone or through email, but
<v Speaker 1>I really, I mean, they all know each other. And
<v Speaker 1>I see this rag tag group of individuals coming up
<v Speaker 1>and there's one little guy, well actually, uh, there's two
<v Speaker 1>little guys on there. There was a guy with glasses,
<v Speaker 1>another guy with the crew cut that were smaller, this
<v Speaker 1>gigantic guy, and another guy with red hair. And they
<v Speaker 1>come up and the leader comes up to me and says, Hi,
<v Speaker 1>my name is Sean. Come hang out with us. And
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh my god. And you know what that
<v Speaker 1>that has From that day forward, we've had a great relationship,
<v Speaker 1>you know, really great friendship, and and I've learned a
<v Speaker 1>lot from him. But we had even that weekend, we
<v Speaker 1>had an experience, uh that was that was fairly interesting.
<v Speaker 1>So we had gone out to the spot where Sean
<v Speaker 1>had his encounter I believe it was a year or
<v Speaker 1>two before, where they had something running around the camp
<v Speaker 1>and then when they were in the tent, they had
<v Speaker 1>the hand that that came and touched the tent. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and Sean had been very nervous about going back, and
<v Speaker 1>so it was basically the same group, uh, plus myself,
<v Speaker 1>and we decided to go out there. And at the
<v Speaker 1>end of the night, we're getting ready to uh to
<v Speaker 1>wrap everything up or or you know, putting the fire
<v Speaker 1>out in man, we heard a vocalization from you know,
<v Speaker 1>probably no further in like one hundred yards away, and
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm sitting there like yeah, you know, and
<v Speaker 1>Sean was a little a little nervous, but but he
<v Speaker 1>held his ground and uh, and like I said, it
<v Speaker 1>showed a lot of a lot about his his attributes.
<v Speaker 1>You know, he he was you know, he had mentioned
<v Speaker 1>about how a friend he was, uh from that last experience.
<v Speaker 1>But the fact that he stuck it out, you know,
<v Speaker 1>even with us getting of vocalization and and uh and uh,
<v Speaker 1>the way he handled himself was uh, you know, uh
<v Speaker 1>showed you know, he had a lot of courage and
<v Speaker 1>he had a lot of you know, innstraint to stay
<v Speaker 1>out there. So so that in itself was uh, you know,
<v Speaker 1>it was pretty much like a big you know, green
<v Speaker 1>flag that this this guy here was you know, it
<v Speaker 1>was a great guy. So so ever since then, we've
<v Speaker 1>been uh we were involved with the keystoneing Foot project
<v Speaker 1>the PBS and now uh, you know, I started doing
<v Speaker 1>this asquatch experience with with Sean. We've had we've been
<v Speaker 1>following up on a lot of encounters that we get.
<v Speaker 1>We've been doing a lot of our own field research.
<v Speaker 1>And what we're doing is what we have planned is
<v Speaker 1>we're actually uh planning kind of a more I guess
<v Speaker 1>uh innovative a group uh for this for this particular area.
<v Speaker 1>So you know, we're kind of laying the groundwork now
<v Speaker 1>that you know, we're uh gonna spend a lot of
<v Speaker 1>time in this one particular area and you know, just
<v Speaker 1>do as much scientific research as we could. Uh in
<v Speaker 1>terms of uh, I have these the bird recorders that
<v Speaker 1>uh record uh uh uh the bird songs we can
<v Speaker 1>we have those programs to record at night. Uh so
<v Speaker 1>if we get a vocalization at night, we were able
<v Speaker 1>to pick that up. We have cellular getting cameras, regular
<v Speaker 1>gaging cameras all over this place. We're doing a lot
<v Speaker 1>of town halls in this area and and we've been
<v Speaker 1>getting a lot of good feedback and good encounters. So
<v Speaker 1>it's something that we're going to be working more and
<v Speaker 1>more on.
<v Speaker 2>How did you pick that particular spot where you're doing
<v Speaker 2>all this research.
<v Speaker 1>So this is a research area that doesn't have a
<v Speaker 1>lot of reports. And there's a thing. There's what we
<v Speaker 1>were talking about is the reports that have come out
<v Speaker 1>of there. There's people that will make their encounters on
<v Speaker 1>say Facebook or other social media or hunting forms, and
<v Speaker 1>but there's no there's not a lot of BFR reports
<v Speaker 1>reports to this area. The one thing is is that
<v Speaker 1>first it's the one area and I can tell you
<v Speaker 1>the name of the area, one of the areas that
<v Speaker 1>we investigated. It's called the Hammersley Fork Wild Area. The
<v Speaker 1>Hammersley Fork Wild Area is the largest roadless region in Pennsylvania.
<v Speaker 1>I think it's about thirty thousand acres. There is not
<v Speaker 1>one road that goes through that. I think it's at
<v Speaker 1>the center. I think it's somewhere about eight or nine
<v Speaker 1>miles from the from the closest road and when we
<v Speaker 1>talked about a road time about a little fire road.
<v Speaker 1>So there's not a lot of people that go through there,
<v Speaker 1>but the reports that we get all seem to kind
<v Speaker 1>of line up where people are coming into that area,
<v Speaker 1>which will be during fishing season and hunting season, and
<v Speaker 1>which are the only times that we have, uh, you know,
<v Speaker 1>any sort of people that that are coming through. Occasionally
<v Speaker 1>you get somebody in the in the summertime, you know,
<v Speaker 1>for the backpackers, but for the most part, our witnesses
<v Speaker 1>are you know, are coming forth or or outdoorsmen. So
<v Speaker 1>we're in an area that doesn't again, it did not
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of reports, you know, such as you
<v Speaker 1>would have with the Chestnut Ridge in southwestern PA. But
<v Speaker 1>we don't have the population right up there either. And
<v Speaker 1>if I was looking at a map to say where
<v Speaker 1>could a large primate live in the state of Pennsylvania,
<v Speaker 1>I'd say it would be right there in north central PA. Uh.
<v Speaker 1>There's areas up through there that you know, probably haven't
<v Speaker 1>had a person step on there since the logging days.
<v Speaker 1>So so there's a lot of treacherous terrain up there.
<v Speaker 1>It's similar to it's similar to the Smoke Mountains through
<v Speaker 1>that uh, north central area. But you just don't have
<v Speaker 1>the crowd. You don't have a Pigeon Forge or a
<v Speaker 1>Gatlinberg out there, so you're not getting as many people
<v Speaker 1>through there. And again, the the reports that we've gotten
<v Speaker 1>out of there that that aren't particularly on the the
<v Speaker 1>BFRRO site. I've been putting together compiling reports that you know,
<v Speaker 1>from people have you know, made mention not just on
<v Speaker 1>on the Bigfoot forums, but like on hunting forms, fishing forms,
<v Speaker 1>camping forums. Uh. And I'll search for anything that that
<v Speaker 1>says anything about bigfoot or any sort of suspicious activity
<v Speaker 1>while they're out in the woods, and I'll contact the person,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'll send them an email or I'll send
<v Speaker 1>them a direct message, and and just try to confirm,
<v Speaker 1>you know, what they did, uh, you know, what they
<v Speaker 1>may have seen or what they may have experienced out there.
<v Speaker 2>What's one of the more interesting accounts that you've heard
<v Speaker 2>from the area.
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's a couple, but in this one here, the
<v Speaker 1>kid did put this out on on a Facebook page.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he's public about it, but this is probably
<v Speaker 1>gonna be the strangest one, is uh. And I'm gonna
<v Speaker 1>probably probably put this in the best way to keep
<v Speaker 1>this a PG oriented podcast. He sure is. Yes, Let's
<v Speaker 1>just say he was able to tell right off the
<v Speaker 1>bat that this was a male that he was that
<v Speaker 1>he hadn't encounter with this kid had Actually he had
<v Speaker 1>a hunting camp and he still still goes up there
<v Speaker 1>and it's in an area called the Quahana wild Area,
<v Speaker 1>which is another expansive piece of wilderness in north central Pennsylvania.
<v Speaker 1>And he was out deer hunting and he had seen
<v Speaker 1>at the top of the hollow a it was more
<v Speaker 1>of like a light brown, almost a gray uh hair
<v Speaker 1>covered uh biped that was looking at him. And he
<v Speaker 1>said that, uh, you know, it just strolled away, but
<v Speaker 1>the way that it walked it almost seemed like it
<v Speaker 1>was gliding. So that was his first experience there. And
<v Speaker 1>then the second experience was in another hollow when he
<v Speaker 1>was actually going out for bear bear hunting, and he said,
<v Speaker 1>he got that odor uh that that started hitting him.
<v Speaker 1>Uh he started feeling that something was watching him. And
<v Speaker 1>that's almost like an innate human uh you know response,
<v Speaker 1>you know, if we have something that's I could be
<v Speaker 1>staring at us, you know, we're gonna know. And he said,
<v Speaker 1>he turned around and he said, no more than than
<v Speaker 1>about forty yards away. Again, this was it wasn't in
<v Speaker 1>the hollow itself, but he was definitely up on higher
<v Speaker 1>ground than him. He said that he saw, ah, this
<v Speaker 1>was like a dark brown hair covered bipad. Now this
<v Speaker 1>was a year later, and he said that he actually
<v Speaker 1>saw his genitalia and it appeared that, you know, whatever
<v Speaker 1>it was was excited. So that's probably the best way
<v Speaker 1>to put it, you know, rather than make it, you know,
<v Speaker 1>it go into explicit detail. But he did say that
<v Speaker 1>it was that he can tell that you know, it
<v Speaker 1>was probably at some points actually aroused, but it didn't
<v Speaker 1>make any any sort of communication to him. And then
<v Speaker 1>he was just staring at him, and he said that,
<v Speaker 1>you know, he went and you know, made a beeline
<v Speaker 1>right to the right to the cabin. He said he
<v Speaker 1>didn't get the feeling that it was following him, or
<v Speaker 1>it was you know, or you know, was going to
<v Speaker 1>make any further contact. He said, he almost thinks that
<v Speaker 1>they kind of came up on each other, you know,
<v Speaker 1>basically by mistake, caught.
<v Speaker 2>With his pants down.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So that's probably the uh, that's probably
<v Speaker 1>the strangest encounter that I got from that particular area,
<v Speaker 1>but there had been in the area, the specific area
<v Speaker 1>where Sean and I have been going, there was a
<v Speaker 1>historically there have been reports there. The first one was
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy seven. There was another report in nineteen
<v Speaker 1>ninety seven in this area, and they were very similar
<v Speaker 1>in the fact that the people were at their cabins.
<v Speaker 1>And again these cabins that they have up there, they're
<v Speaker 1>not uh, they're not year around cabins they have they're
<v Speaker 1>on what they call state they're what they call state
<v Speaker 1>lease cabins. So they might have a cabin that's on
<v Speaker 1>the state forest. But first off, you can't uh, you
<v Speaker 1>can't live there, you know, you have to uh uh
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're restricted from spending so many days there.
<v Speaker 1>They also have no usually they don't have electric or
<v Speaker 1>there's no water well you know, they'll have linco an outhouse. Uh.
<v Speaker 1>So they're very primitive. And these two families twenty years apart,
<v Speaker 1>had items thrown at their cabins and had been basically
<v Speaker 1>chased out of the area when they had been up there.
<v Speaker 1>So again these were these two reports were twenty years apart,
<v Speaker 1>that people didn't know each other, but their cabins I
<v Speaker 1>passed our cabins when we go up to our area,
<v Speaker 1>and where we where Sean and I actually go camping
<v Speaker 1>is right smack dab in the middle between the two cabins,
<v Speaker 1>which is there's a road up there. We can't name it,
<v Speaker 1>but it's a straight line about ten miles between the
<v Speaker 1>two cabins. Back in the nineties, also there was two
<v Speaker 1>police officers that went up to their to their camp.
<v Speaker 1>It was not on that road, but it was on
<v Speaker 1>a road that connects to the road that we're doing
<v Speaker 1>most of our research on and they have been up
<v Speaker 1>their target hunting or target shooting, and next thing you know,
<v Speaker 1>you know, they started hearing the vocalizations and they couldn't
<v Speaker 1>tell what it was, and you know, because they never
<v Speaker 1>heard anything like that. And as they're wrapping up, they
<v Speaker 1>started having stones being thrown at them and they're like,
<v Speaker 1>all right, you know who the heck is from stones
<v Speaker 1>as you know out here. And so I think when
<v Speaker 1>they came back the next week they were they found
<v Speaker 1>prints in the area where their cabin was. But again,
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're talking to more and more people, especially
<v Speaker 1>the sportsmen that are up there, and just recently we
<v Speaker 1>had somebody contact us about a Class B encounter that
<v Speaker 1>they had last June, which was only about seven or
<v Speaker 1>eight miles away from this particular area. So there's still
<v Speaker 1>activity in the area. But again it's just not we
<v Speaker 1>don't have a lot of witnesses up there.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it takes people to have big foot sightings,
<v Speaker 2>is the whole thing, absolutely, And I think that's an
<v Speaker 2>element that whenever people are, you know, getting involved and
<v Speaker 2>investigating this more deeply and they're reading the reports on
<v Speaker 2>the BFRO or wherever, and you start looking for these
<v Speaker 2>different patterns, you've got to remember that the foundation of
<v Speaker 2>all those patterns you're seeing is people like it. Do
<v Speaker 2>you have to have a person there to make the report,
<v Speaker 2>so you know, it doesn't really matter that there aren't
<v Speaker 2>a lot of well known reports coming out of the area.
<v Speaker 2>I mean everything you're describing, I'm just sitting here going
<v Speaker 2>through the mental checklist in my head, and it sounds like,
<v Speaker 2>you know, a researcher's paradise as the seasonal and minimal traffic.
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's kind of a controlled area as close
<v Speaker 2>as you're going to get without having private property. And yes,
<v Speaker 2>coming from the aspect of you know, some of the
<v Speaker 2>more popular theories about Bigfoot and their behavior and everything.
<v Speaker 2>This would be a area for them. I mean, they
<v Speaker 2>they can be left alone and at the same time
<v Speaker 2>they do have people to observe and mess with, and
<v Speaker 2>maybe you sick up a few trinkets here and there.
<v Speaker 2>But wow, man, it sounds like a great place.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely absolutely, And it's not that far from especially
<v Speaker 1>where Sean lives. It's only about an hour an hour
<v Speaker 1>and a half tried from from his house, so for
<v Speaker 1>me it's a little longer. But uh, but I have
<v Speaker 1>a camp up there as well, so uh so we
<v Speaker 1>try to get as uh as much time as we could, uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, going up there now. I'll be up there
<v Speaker 1>next week and try to get some uh try to
<v Speaker 1>get some time in in the woods. But but even
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to uh the people with the sightings,
<v Speaker 1>one thing that Sean and I are trying to do
<v Speaker 1>is we know that there can't always be people up there,
<v Speaker 1>so we're we're we're relying on some of this technology
<v Speaker 1>that that's coming out uh to uh to you know,
<v Speaker 1>hopefully help us in particular, Like I said, the the
<v Speaker 1>you know, the recorders that we have, the audio recorders. Uh,
<v Speaker 1>I think that's uh, you know, really something that you
<v Speaker 1>know would help us pinpoint uh in certain areas. If
<v Speaker 1>we know that we're getting a vocalization on saying in
<v Speaker 1>June at three o'clock in the morning, well just went
<v Speaker 1>next June, We're going to try to be out there
<v Speaker 1>at three o'clock in the morning, you know, because everything's
<v Speaker 1>about patterns, So hopefully that will then, you know, from
<v Speaker 1>the technology extend it to you know, a person having
<v Speaker 1>experience and being able to witness something.
<v Speaker 2>I thought of a question while you were talking about
<v Speaker 2>one of those particular stories that I wanted to ask
<v Speaker 2>you that sure that feeling of being watched that the
<v Speaker 2>kid experienced, and and it's something that as you know,
<v Speaker 2>it comes up and reports often, you know, I, yes,
<v Speaker 2>a change in the atmosphere. Do you feel that As
<v Speaker 2>a police officer.
<v Speaker 1>We do get that sometimes, And I always say it's
<v Speaker 1>a physiological response and our eyes may not be able
<v Speaker 1>to sense something, but we know, you know, whether it's
<v Speaker 1>coming from a certain spell. Maybe it's a smell that
<v Speaker 1>we can't that we can't you know consciously, you know, uh,
<v Speaker 1>smell ourselves, but it goes in as subconsciously it goes
<v Speaker 1>in or just you know, maybe with with our hearing,
<v Speaker 1>maybe with something like I know plenty of times where
<v Speaker 1>I've been out somewhere and I'll get that, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'll get that feeling like, you know, with the hair
<v Speaker 1>going on the back of my neck and I'll turn
<v Speaker 1>around and there's somebody that has a felony warrant that
<v Speaker 1>you know, that might be behind me trying to ditch
<v Speaker 1>you know, uh, you know it ditched a location, or
<v Speaker 1>maybe it's somebody that's trying to do an ambush. We've
<v Speaker 1>had that a couple of times where we're not in
<v Speaker 1>uh in a major city, but we we do have
<v Speaker 1>a lot of crime. And I can tell you the
<v Speaker 1>one time I was actually uh and with my partner
<v Speaker 1>in a house where the girl said, hey, you know what,
<v Speaker 1>there's somebody in here. I kept hearing noises. And what
<v Speaker 1>happened was she had a protection from abuseholder against her boyfriend.
<v Speaker 1>And we checked the house out, but we had that
<v Speaker 1>We just had that creepy feeling like, hey, we're not
<v Speaker 1>alone in here, and uh my partner went over and
<v Speaker 1>he was like, hey, there's one one place we didn't check,
<v Speaker 1>and we went When we went to go check, the
<v Speaker 1>guy who was there, so we do. Like I said,
<v Speaker 1>it could be, Uh, it could be just something subconscious
<v Speaker 1>that you know that it makes our body react. I'm
<v Speaker 1>not in so much into the esp part of it,
<v Speaker 1>but again, it could be you know that that guy's
<v Speaker 1>fear or that guy's anger, or that guy. You know,
<v Speaker 1>somehow we're able to detect it subconsciously.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was just curious because whenever it comes to
<v Speaker 2>the subject of bigfoot, you know, people tell stories all
<v Speaker 2>the time, and you've ran across people that aren't always truthful. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>and it's also a situation where it is very easy
<v Speaker 2>to let your thoughts run away with you whenever you
<v Speaker 2>get spooped. And so the aspect of that feeling, I'm
<v Speaker 2>a firm believer in that gut feeling, that instinct, whatever
<v Speaker 2>it is, should be listened to whenever you're out in
<v Speaker 2>the field with bigfoot. It doesn't absolutely necessarily mean that
<v Speaker 2>it's a bigfoot in the area, but I think there's
<v Speaker 2>I think there's something too for sure.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, And and you know what, over the weekend
<v Speaker 1>at the festival, I was talking to Jenny and Jamie King,
<v Speaker 1>and they are just fastening people and we love them
<v Speaker 1>to death. And but we were talking about that, and
<v Speaker 1>because they're more into you know, a little bit more
<v Speaker 1>of the supernatural and and such, and you know, you know,
<v Speaker 1>they have great explanations for it though, and so I
<v Speaker 1>do enjoy listening to them. I do enjoy talking to them.
<v Speaker 1>But were we both agreed that there's places out there
<v Speaker 1>that out in the woods where there's places that whether
<v Speaker 1>it's the minerals in the ground or something just amidst
<v Speaker 1>a positive energy to the person going through there. But
<v Speaker 1>then there's areas out in the woods that are the
<v Speaker 1>exact opposite that give you that that kind of dread
<v Speaker 1>and fear of going in. And there might be a
<v Speaker 1>good reason for it, or it may just be that's
<v Speaker 1>just the energy. I know, I don't know. I do
<v Speaker 1>think it's kind of funny though, because I did say, well,
<v Speaker 1>there are a few areas where I get that way,
<v Speaker 1>and you know, maybe it's a maybe it's like the
<v Speaker 1>top of the hollow where there's a where it's a
<v Speaker 1>lot of rock and you don't have the you don't
<v Speaker 1>have the ferns growing, you don't have the trees growing.
<v Speaker 1>You know, they might be on the outside and you
<v Speaker 1>do get that, you know, sometimes you do get that
<v Speaker 1>sense of dread and well, you know, uh, you may
<v Speaker 1>run into a rattlesnake den up. There A funny, funny
<v Speaker 1>story I had that happen to me where I was.
<v Speaker 1>I do a lot of fishing, uh in the in
<v Speaker 1>the bad country, and I was actually in an area
<v Speaker 1>just like that where it was nothing but rocks that
<v Speaker 1>can and I'm fishing just this little little tiny stream
<v Speaker 1>for a native brook trout, and you know, the hair
<v Speaker 1>started going up on the back of my neck and
<v Speaker 1>I felt something was off. And I'm looking looking and
<v Speaker 1>initially I'm looking straight ahead into the sides. I didn't
<v Speaker 1>mean to look up. Yet. Well, here I go and
<v Speaker 1>look up, and what do I see? Probably about thirty
<v Speaker 1>thirty yards away from me, I see this gigantic head.
<v Speaker 1>Well the head had you know, the big tufted ears
<v Speaker 1>and the big whiskers. Here is a bobcat that had
<v Speaker 1>been sitting here watching me fish. And I had no clue.
<v Speaker 1>I was not looking up, but I had that sense
<v Speaker 1>that something was was staring at me. And like I said,
<v Speaker 1>it took me a few minutes before I looked up
<v Speaker 1>and here was the bobcat. You know, I was sitting
<v Speaker 1>at the at the edge of the ravine, sitting here
<v Speaker 1>watching me fish. So so there is definitely definitely something there.
<v Speaker 1>I don't think the bock cat was was gonna hurt me,
<v Speaker 1>but I was in an area where, again, not a
<v Speaker 1>lot of people go to in the first place, so
<v Speaker 1>they probably said, what's this guy doing, you know, in
<v Speaker 1>the middle of the creek, you know, even to stick around,
<v Speaker 1>So you know.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think it's just you know, leftover instincts
<v Speaker 2>that were still a little bit tapped into. And I
<v Speaker 2>think the more you spend out in those wilderness areas,
<v Speaker 2>going back to the roots of mankind, the more in
<v Speaker 2>tune you are with those feelings. But yeah, it's just
<v Speaker 2>something that's really fascinating to me, all those aspects. I'm
<v Speaker 2>I'm definitely the type of person, even though I've had
<v Speaker 2>experiences in my life that people would you know, definitely
<v Speaker 2>con or paranormal, uh, whenever it came to bigfoot stuff
<v Speaker 2>and just things in general, I'm one of those people
<v Speaker 2>who I want to be able to observe it, measure it,
<v Speaker 2>record it. Yes, I don't, you know. I like to
<v Speaker 2>talk about theory and speculation and everything and what could
<v Speaker 2>and couldn't be possible. But at the end of the day,
<v Speaker 2>I need something solid, and yes, Bigfoot doesn't offer much
<v Speaker 2>of that.
<v Speaker 1>No it doesn't. No, it doesn't. And there's a couple
<v Speaker 1>different theories as to why. And one theory that I
<v Speaker 1>kinda I kind of lean towards is there may not
<v Speaker 1>be a lot of them around and you know, there
<v Speaker 1>may only be you know, a small just a large
<v Speaker 1>enough population for them to keep the gen pull somewhat
<v Speaker 1>somewhat clean. But uh, but there just may not be
<v Speaker 1>a lot. And one uh, one analogy I try to
<v Speaker 1>try to give to people is think of how big
<v Speaker 1>the wilderness areas are, like especially I'll say the North
<v Speaker 1>Central PA. Port. Now you go down to Philadelphia, take
<v Speaker 1>everyone out of the city of Philadelphia, and put five
<v Speaker 1>people in random buildings in Philadelphia. How hard is it
<v Speaker 1>going to be to find those people?
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you could never find them?
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, So if you have maybe like I said,
<v Speaker 1>with North Central Pa or the Algan National Forest, which
<v Speaker 1>is which is another uh and it's just right to
<v Speaker 1>the west of our area and where I've had some experiences.
<v Speaker 1>It's such a large area. But but if you only
<v Speaker 1>have a handful of uh of these you know creatures
<v Speaker 1>out there. It's the odds are so set against us
<v Speaker 1>even you know, having any sort of encounter with them, right,
<v Speaker 1>you know, if they truly do want to stay away
<v Speaker 1>from us. The other analogy I use too is in
<v Speaker 1>Pennsylvania are our coyote population has exploded over the last
<v Speaker 1>twenty years. And I always tell people, how often do
<v Speaker 1>you see coyotes. They live in the woods, and they
<v Speaker 1>come down to the uh they come into like the
<v Speaker 1>outskirts of town, the farms and stuff to eat. But
<v Speaker 1>how many times have you seen a coyote. You know
<v Speaker 1>that they're there, you know that there's a very big population,
<v Speaker 1>but we just don't see them all the time. In fact,
<v Speaker 1>it's very rare to see a coyote here in Pennsylvania.
<v Speaker 1>And the reason being is that they're they're as intelligent
<v Speaker 1>as our dogs, and they have that intelligence, and next
<v Speaker 1>they don't want to be, you know, around humans. They
<v Speaker 1>want to go and eat the rabbits and the squirrels
<v Speaker 1>and everything else. They don't want to be around us.
<v Speaker 1>You know, there there there might be a few that
<v Speaker 1>you know are kind of messed up and they do
<v Speaker 1>want to go in your humans or or such but
<v Speaker 1>for the most part, I can go out, especially in
<v Speaker 1>the wintertime, do a coyote cow call, and have I
<v Speaker 1>don't know, like at least fifteen or twenty coyotes in
<v Speaker 1>a just that short area respond back to me. But
<v Speaker 1>we don't see them, you know, unless we're actually uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, unless I'm actually hunting for them and drawing
<v Speaker 1>them in. The average person isn't isn't gonna see a coyote, right,
<v Speaker 1>I try to I try to use that analogy also
<v Speaker 1>with Bigfoot, that if there is a popular agent here,
<v Speaker 1>at first, first off, there may not be a lot.
<v Speaker 1>And then secondly, if they're smarter than a coyote, they
<v Speaker 1>really don't want to be, you know, around us, and
<v Speaker 1>they probably just want to go eat and do whatever
<v Speaker 1>the else they want to do. But they don't want
<v Speaker 1>to come in to you know, into the towns or
<v Speaker 1>you know, into the cities and gore. I think got
<v Speaker 1>enough food out in the mountains.
<v Speaker 2>So so taking that into consideration, uh, that sort of obstacle.
<v Speaker 2>Talking about the technology that you and Sean are using
<v Speaker 2>in this area, Yes, what do you personally look for
<v Speaker 2>to say, hey, I think we should put a camera
<v Speaker 2>here or in a recorder here are there certain things
<v Speaker 2>or do you just kind of go into it blind?
<v Speaker 1>No, it's now. I mean you could say we kind
<v Speaker 1>of go into a blind But but I'm more I'm
<v Speaker 1>a big geography nerd. So I look for a couple
<v Speaker 1>of different things. One is I look for places where
<v Speaker 1>there's food. Secondly, I looked for places where the creature
<v Speaker 1>could traverse without being seen. And then the last thing
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking for is any additional features that are less
<v Speaker 1>inaccessible to a normal person, where the creature could you know,
<v Speaker 1>it could rest. So what I'm like, for example, like
<v Speaker 1>behind my house, we have a mountain. It's called the
<v Speaker 1>Broad Mountain because it's it doesn't have a peak on it.
<v Speaker 1>It's it's almost like a like a long running plateau.
<v Speaker 1>What I would do up there is again I would
<v Speaker 1>look for places where And one other thing too I
<v Speaker 1>try to look at too, is for water source. Most
<v Speaker 1>of the time you're not going to find them, you know,
<v Speaker 1>find a lot of evidence, you know, completely out in
<v Speaker 1>the desert. Although I I have heard that, but but
<v Speaker 1>you know, you do need food, you need water, and
<v Speaker 1>you need shelter. So I try to look at things
<v Speaker 1>like that. So I'll look for specific areas where there
<v Speaker 1>might be multiple hollows, there might be ravines, but at
<v Speaker 1>the same point, we have all look for places where
<v Speaker 1>there is access to food, where something would be able
<v Speaker 1>to travel, you know, pretty much through the cover of
<v Speaker 1>the woods. There is an area up there where I thought,
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking, oh my god, this is the best spot.
<v Speaker 1>Right here. There's a cliff that drops off about eighty feet,
<v Speaker 1>There's a couple of little terraces down as it goes
<v Speaker 1>into the valley, there's you know, a couple of rockout croppies.
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh, this is the perfect spot. I didn't
<v Speaker 1>get anything from it, you know. But then we're hearing about,
<v Speaker 1>you know, ten miles to the west of us, that
<v Speaker 1>there was activity over there and that has similar attributes.
<v Speaker 1>But we weren't just you know, we were kind of
<v Speaker 1>shotgunning to those areas that appeared that they would that
<v Speaker 1>they would provide that habitat for a large creature like that.
<v Speaker 2>You sent me a video of an experience you had, Yes,
<v Speaker 2>was that in this area or a different area.
<v Speaker 1>This was a slightly different areas just off to the
<v Speaker 1>west and the alg National Forest, and there I actually
<v Speaker 1>had two experiences out there all. They were both within
<v Speaker 1>a month of each other. That were pretty exciting experiences.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do you mind walking us through it for people
<v Speaker 2>that haven't heard about it?
<v Speaker 1>Yes, absolutely so. I believe it was the end of September.
<v Speaker 1>I ended up doing an expedition up there with with
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of prime of mine and they had an
<v Speaker 1>area where they were they were getting a pretty consistent
<v Speaker 1>activity in the al Ya National Forest, and they said, hey, listen,
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're going to go out here. We're going
<v Speaker 1>to get a bunch of you know, a good group
<v Speaker 1>of people. We're going to be spread out. We're going
<v Speaker 1>to see what we can get. So when we first
<v Speaker 1>go out there, they have what's called dispersed camp sites,
<v Speaker 1>and these are basically camp sites. Anyone could go up
<v Speaker 1>to them. They have fire pits places where you can
<v Speaker 1>set up a camper attent. You can only be there
<v Speaker 1>for like a week though, and then you have to
<v Speaker 1>move sites. But we had set up people at this
<v Speaker 1>particular camp and then throughout the area there was a
<v Speaker 1>few gas walls natural gas walls, so with the natural
<v Speaker 1>gas industry, they put up these wells. They put in
<v Speaker 1>little trails to go up to the wells and went through,
<v Speaker 1>you wouldn't you wouldn't even know they were there. But
<v Speaker 1>we had the main group stay at the at the
<v Speaker 1>disperse site, and then myself, Gwen Purcell, my very good friend,
<v Speaker 1>and another investigator. We went next to one of these
<v Speaker 1>gas walls where there was a little trail that was
<v Speaker 1>coming up and we were just to the east of
<v Speaker 1>probably about i'd say about a third of a mile
<v Speaker 1>from where the dispersed campsite was and to the east.
<v Speaker 1>So we're sitting there and we didn't have that much
<v Speaker 1>activity going on, and but myself and Gwyn both had
<v Speaker 1>thermals and we're just kind of going through. Every so
<v Speaker 1>often we'd see a deer coming through. But around I
<v Speaker 1>guess it was around two o'clock in the morning, the
<v Speaker 1>people at the disperse site they had a big bonfire going,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm gonna say it was mostly the older people
<v Speaker 1>and that didn't want to go hiking at night. You know,
<v Speaker 1>we're we're staying down there. Well, around that time they
<v Speaker 1>heard something coming through the brush and as it got
<v Speaker 1>close to the bonfire, they said that they heard a growl.
<v Speaker 1>So they radioed us and said, hey, listen, something came
<v Speaker 1>through and we heard a growl, no more than probably admitute.
<v Speaker 1>After that, we heard two wooden knocks, and this was
<v Speaker 1>between the dispersed site, and so it was something obviously
<v Speaker 1>between the two places. At that point, you know, we
<v Speaker 1>just you know, me and Gwen are just like, all right,
<v Speaker 1>there's something, there's something going on. Well, we put our
<v Speaker 1>thermals on and we heard something coming through. And then
<v Speaker 1>on the other side of the trail. Unfortunately with the
<v Speaker 1>trail there was a lot of vegetation, so it was September,
<v Speaker 1>so I was we didn't have you know, the uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, the bare trees at that time, but we
<v Speaker 1>had a heat seeing the church going behind those brushes,
<v Speaker 1>behind that brush and whatever it was, it was pretty big.
<v Speaker 1>So as it got through and we, like I said,
<v Speaker 1>it was probably no more than the twenty yards from us,
<v Speaker 1>and then it probably what we're thinking, it went off
<v Speaker 1>further to the east of us. I went around to
<v Speaker 1>the side where I thought I could try to get
<v Speaker 1>a little more visibility, and we had seen something peeking
<v Speaker 1>out from a tree. And then at that point, unfortunately
<v Speaker 1>we don't have the best flares, you know, we had
<v Speaker 1>the cellphone flares. It just kind of died out. I
<v Speaker 1>went over to that area where we saw that just
<v Speaker 1>a few minutes later, and I had Gwen checking, you know,
<v Speaker 1>standing at the road, and I said, okay, this is
<v Speaker 1>I think the tree where I was where I saw
<v Speaker 1>that that head peak. I'm six ft four, and whatever
<v Speaker 1>it was was at least another uh, you know, ten
<v Speaker 1>inches taller than I was. Wow. Yeah, So that was
<v Speaker 1>our first experience. So then at the A and F.
<v Speaker 1>So then a month later, we decided that we're gonna
<v Speaker 1>all meet up again and we're gonna we're gonna check
<v Speaker 1>the area out. So I had the rest of the
<v Speaker 1>crew were kind of you know, going back to that
<v Speaker 1>same spot, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna
<v Speaker 1>go check out a couple of areas that you know,
<v Speaker 1>might be good for for us going out here. We again,
<v Speaker 1>we have a husband and wife that that lived right
<v Speaker 1>outside the A n F. And they they're out almost
<v Speaker 1>you know, six nights a week, uh, going to doing
<v Speaker 1>the back roads looking for any sort of evidence. So
<v Speaker 1>they they're generally keyed in. But this particular area where
<v Speaker 1>I went wasn't an area that they that they spent
<v Speaker 1>a lot of time in. So I go up there
<v Speaker 1>and I marked off a couple of spots where we
<v Speaker 1>can you know, possibly do some call blasting from where
<v Speaker 1>we can you know, have it to spur site. And
<v Speaker 1>then looking at the map way the way I normally
<v Speaker 1>looked at things, I found the stream that was coming
<v Speaker 1>down from the mountain. I found it a spur site
<v Speaker 1>with the with the gas well, and I also found
<v Speaker 1>that there was some kind of irregular terrain that was
<v Speaker 1>farther away from the road. So I said, you know what,
<v Speaker 1>this was like a good spot, so I'm gonna I'm
<v Speaker 1>gonna go check it out. So I go up there,
<v Speaker 1>and this is Saturday afternoon, around four o'clock. I hike
<v Speaker 1>up the gas well in about and maybe about one
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty yards from where I parked. I'm sitting
<v Speaker 1>there looking at in the The pathway itself was was
<v Speaker 1>pretty muddy. Everything else was was rocky, but the paths
<v Speaker 1>going up to the aswall was it was kind of slick.
<v Speaker 1>So as I'm going up there, I'm looking at the
<v Speaker 1>ground looking for deer track, spare tracks and such. And
<v Speaker 1>I see this track that's going across the path and
<v Speaker 1>I look at it a little more and I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, there's toes in here. So then I
<v Speaker 1>take off the only thing I had with me, and
<v Speaker 1>I got to say this, I normally try to be
<v Speaker 1>prepared when I go out. I was not prepared at all.
<v Speaker 1>This was just more or less, you know, a scouting trip.
<v Speaker 1>So of course I used twenty dollars bills because that's
<v Speaker 1>why I had in my pocket to try to size
<v Speaker 1>up the print. And so because you can take a
<v Speaker 1>twenty dollar bill or any sort of bill and know
<v Speaker 1>that it's you know, if I've been you know, one half.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what the exact you know, but say
<v Speaker 1>like benches long, and you could use that to scale
<v Speaker 1>for the for the photo. So I took pictures of it,
<v Speaker 1>and I said, all right, I'm gonna mark this and
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go see if I can get some plaster. Well,
<v Speaker 1>I tried getting the hold of everyone, and there's no
<v Speaker 1>cell service out there, so I couldn't get a hold
<v Speaker 1>of anyone. By the time I got down off the mountain,
<v Speaker 1>it was it was on a Saturday, so it was
<v Speaker 1>probably around six o'clock, the five or six o'clock, and
<v Speaker 1>by that time everything was closed, you know, because there's
<v Speaker 1>not a lot The closest Walmart's like an hour away.
<v Speaker 1>So I'm like, oh, man, you know what you know,
<v Speaker 1>does anyone have plaster? No one have plaster? All right,
<v Speaker 1>the next morning I'm going to go up there, and
<v Speaker 1>before I do that, I'm going to run into the town.
<v Speaker 1>There's a hardware store there, get some plaster, go up
<v Speaker 1>there and cast it. So the next morning, well, overnight
<v Speaker 1>it rained and unfortunately I probably degraded the track a
<v Speaker 1>little bit, so I wasn't happy about that. But the
<v Speaker 1>next morning I woke up, it was a beautiful day,
<v Speaker 1>and I ended up going into the into the town,
<v Speaker 1>the closest town, getting my plaster, getting a bucket everything else.
<v Speaker 1>So I drive up to this to the spot and
<v Speaker 1>it's about a five mile drive in from the from
<v Speaker 1>the paved road. And when I went up there, there
<v Speaker 1>was not one car that I that I passed. There
<v Speaker 1>was nobody that had spent the night up there. There
<v Speaker 1>was no one there that you know it was doing
<v Speaker 1>an exploring or hiking. There was just no one there.
<v Speaker 1>So I parked in the in the dispersed camp spot
<v Speaker 1>there and hike up, get the plaster all set, and
<v Speaker 1>again the track degraded a little bit from the rain.
<v Speaker 1>But I figured, well, it doesn't matter, I'm still gonna
<v Speaker 1>cast it. So I cast it and I head back
<v Speaker 1>downhill and I head down on my truck. Now I
<v Speaker 1>don't have cell service up there, so I'm just looking.
<v Speaker 1>And again I'm a map nerd, so I'm looking over
<v Speaker 1>the maps and everything. Well, I'm looking over the bed
<v Speaker 1>of my truck and something caught my eye. About seventy
<v Speaker 1>five to one hundred yards away, I see this tree.
<v Speaker 1>It's a smaller tree, but I see this tree shaking,
<v Speaker 1>violently shaking. And the way I described it is back
<v Speaker 1>in the eighties and the nineties, we had those if
<v Speaker 1>you go to the game shows, they had those boots
<v Speaker 1>that the money would fly in and you try to
<v Speaker 1>grab all the money, right, you know, it was the
<v Speaker 1>leaves were coming down like that off this tree. So
<v Speaker 1>I'm centre and I don't see a squirrel, I don't
<v Speaker 1>see a deer, I don't see anything. But I see
<v Speaker 1>this tree, just this lone tree shaking. So by the time,
<v Speaker 1>and you know what I'm going to tell you, if
<v Speaker 1>I was upset afterwards, because I had my phone with me,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, you know what, I should have recorded that,
<v Speaker 1>but you don't think about that. You're just so so
<v Speaker 1>much an awe of watching this. Yeah, So I finally
<v Speaker 1>got the finally got the phone up, and then I
<v Speaker 1>started talking to whatever was out there, and I'm like, hey, listen,
<v Speaker 1>I'm not here to hurt you. I'm not here to
<v Speaker 1>harm you at all. I'm just here to document the
<v Speaker 1>print that one of you left up there. If And
<v Speaker 1>it was funny because I said, if you want to
<v Speaker 1>come up and I could get your picture, that would
<v Speaker 1>be great. I mean, but I'm not here to hurt it.
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I'm going to tell you i'm a
<v Speaker 1>police officer, but it's fifty to fifty on whether I
<v Speaker 1>can or not. And I didn't feel like carrying it,
<v Speaker 1>like I I didn't carry when I was up in
<v Speaker 1>the A and F because there's nothing there that you know,
<v Speaker 1>other than the people that you know. It would really
<v Speaker 1>put that fear in me. And so I didn't have
<v Speaker 1>I didn't even have a knife with me, you know.
<v Speaker 1>So I have nothing. I only had the stick for
<v Speaker 1>my plaster of my plaster bucket if something came after me.
<v Speaker 1>So I'm sitting there, I'm like, I'm not here to
<v Speaker 1>hurt you. I'm not gonna harm you, you know, and
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing that whole de escalation. Well then it stopped.
<v Speaker 1>So I sat there and what I did was I started,
<v Speaker 1>I picked up the phone and started doing my my
<v Speaker 1>video only because of the fact that I felt that
<v Speaker 1>if I kept talking that, you know, it kind of
<v Speaker 1>helped with the little a little bit of the fear,
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of the anxiety. So I just kept
<v Speaker 1>that talking going, even with the recording, because it was dead.
<v Speaker 1>Quad it out there and this is again, uh October,
<v Speaker 1>and there's migratory board birds, there's animals, there's all sorts
<v Speaker 1>of stuff that that should be in those woods. It
<v Speaker 1>was silent. You could have heard a pin drop. So
<v Speaker 1>I'm just sitting there and like I said, the talking
<v Speaker 1>was just basically to keep me from, you know, from
<v Speaker 1>getting a little too nervous. So I said, all right,
<v Speaker 1>So I said, all right, you know what, I got
<v Speaker 1>to go get this cast. So I ran up and
<v Speaker 1>got the cast, came back, went down to the truck.
<v Speaker 1>So I said, all right, you know what, now I'm
<v Speaker 1>going to go over to where this uh where this
<v Speaker 1>area was and see if there's I just wanted to
<v Speaker 1>kind of put my mind at ease. If if there
<v Speaker 1>was a deer down there. This is during what they
<v Speaker 1>call the right you would see the buck rub, you know,
<v Speaker 1>you would see where where where the antlers would be
<v Speaker 1>or the markings. So I said, I want to go
<v Speaker 1>and see this tree. So I got in the truck,
<v Speaker 1>drove down the you know, going back the same way
<v Speaker 1>you know where I was. Well, the first thing I
<v Speaker 1>noticed is there's about a seven foot drainage ditch that
<v Speaker 1>was right adjacent to the tree. And what it was
<v Speaker 1>was it was probably done back in like the nineteen
<v Speaker 1>thirties or forties for the Civilian Conservation Court. It was
<v Speaker 1>basically like an anti erosion ditch and it was a
<v Speaker 1>man made probably, but this went down the mountain and
<v Speaker 1>it was literally right next to this tree. So unfortunately,
<v Speaker 1>down at the bottom of the where this ravine, you know,
<v Speaker 1>a little ravine ditch was, it's all rocks, so there's
<v Speaker 1>no soft material for me to try to get to
<v Speaker 1>get anything, you know, any sort of evidence. But I
<v Speaker 1>walked down there and I'll tell you what. I could
<v Speaker 1>grab the tree and again I'm six for or I
<v Speaker 1>could grab the tree, but I couldn't shake it. The
<v Speaker 1>way that thing was being shook and I'm gonna tell you, man,
<v Speaker 1>I'm a big guy, you know, like I you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty strong. So for me not to shake that
<v Speaker 1>thing that violently, something much stronger than me had to
<v Speaker 1>have been able to move that. So then, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I did notice when I looked up the mountain, I
<v Speaker 1>saw some areas that that could be utilized as a
<v Speaker 1>bear den or or or something else. You know, something
<v Speaker 1>else may have been been in that particular area. But
<v Speaker 1>at that point then I said, all right, you know,
<v Speaker 1>this really has me intrigued with this. And it doesn't
<v Speaker 1>seem like I didn't have a sighting. But the fact
<v Speaker 1>that there was a print that was taken I was
<v Speaker 1>relatively fresh, along with behave even that could be attributed
<v Speaker 1>to a primate. With the with the tree shaking and
<v Speaker 1>the fact that the woods went silent, it just really
<v Speaker 1>had me kind of really heavily thinking about what happened
<v Speaker 1>that day. Yeah, and so that was that was definitely
<v Speaker 1>a unique experience that I've had. And but again going
<v Speaker 1>back to the whole mapping thing, what did we have?
<v Speaker 1>We had, uh, you know, we had food sources because
<v Speaker 1>there was the gas lines that that weren't that far.
<v Speaker 1>We had water. We had, you know, basically a remote
<v Speaker 1>area that not a lot of people had gone to.
<v Speaker 1>And uh there was places again where where we had
<v Speaker 1>some weird geography, uh you know, uh to the north
<v Speaker 1>of me where you know, something could could could go
<v Speaker 1>up there and sleep and and pretty much spend the
<v Speaker 1>whole summer and no one's gonna gonna uh you know,
<v Speaker 1>uh walk get on them. So it's it was pretty interesting.
<v Speaker 2>Do you think the gas wells are an attractant for
<v Speaker 2>them of some kind?
<v Speaker 1>You know what, I think that they I don't think
<v Speaker 1>that they hurt. The one one particular thing with the
<v Speaker 1>gas wells is what they do for whether it's for
<v Speaker 1>the gas wall itself or for the for the pipelines,
<v Speaker 1>is they're you know, clearing out a line, you know,
<v Speaker 1>with so they're carrying out the trees. But we're only
<v Speaker 1>talking about like maybe just a stretch that's you know,
<v Speaker 1>anywhere from It could be as narrow as uh, you know,
<v Speaker 1>three four yards to you know, maybe ten yards across.
<v Speaker 1>So you have all that area that that's taken out,
<v Speaker 1>and then you have usually like rye grass or or
<v Speaker 1>other you know, vegetables and uh, vegetation at grosser that's
<v Speaker 1>food for uh, you know, deer, that's food you know
<v Speaker 1>for we have elkin in Pennsylvania. We also have you know,
<v Speaker 1>just so many other the birds, other mammals that that
<v Speaker 1>would that would go there. And what we actually find is,
<v Speaker 1>uh with some of these uh it's kind of a
<v Speaker 1>controversial view, but with some of these uh you know,
<v Speaker 1>gas lines and everything, they're actually great for hunting, you know,
<v Speaker 1>as a as a hunter. Oh my god, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like it draws uh, it draws animals.
<v Speaker 2>In well, it's like everybody in the bigfoot world always
<v Speaker 2>talks about, you know, the electric line ways and it's
<v Speaker 2>the same type situation. You also hear a lot of
<v Speaker 2>stuff about railroad tracks and again it's yes, areas uh
<v Speaker 2>cleared out through a forested area where now sunlight can
<v Speaker 2>penetrate and different types of vegetaves, vegetation grows, and that
<v Speaker 2>attracts prey animals and it I have found, for whatever
<v Speaker 2>it is worth, that there seems to be a lot
<v Speaker 2>of Bigfoot reports in areas where you find those changes
<v Speaker 2>in ecosystems where yes, multiple ecosystems kind of converge. They
<v Speaker 2>call them ecoregions, where you have an abundance of a
<v Speaker 2>different types of you know, vegetation and animals and everything else. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and it's the similarly same thing hunters look for for
<v Speaker 2>a reason.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely, and and again I think and
<v Speaker 1>years ago before we were even here, we had no
<v Speaker 1>the natives didn't have a fire service. You know, they
<v Speaker 1>you know, if there was a fire, they moved out
<v Speaker 1>of the way. But what happened was you had all
<v Speaker 1>these forest fires and the forest would naturally regenerate. And
<v Speaker 1>one of the healthiest uh uh ecosystems is a is
<v Speaker 1>a regrowing force from the years of ten ten years
<v Speaker 1>to twenty years because of the uh, because of what's
<v Speaker 1>what's actually growing through there. And so uh that's where
<v Speaker 1>you're going to find a lot of deer, That's where
<v Speaker 1>you're going to find a lot of profit grouse, turkey.
<v Speaker 1>And again this is uh you know, uh, if we
<v Speaker 1>take big foot out of the equation and we're looking
<v Speaker 1>at other predators, this is where you're gonna find your coyotes,
<v Speaker 1>This is where you're gonna find your bears, this is
<v Speaker 1>where you're gonna find your podcast going mountain lions as well.
<v Speaker 1>So so your predators are gonna are going to follow
<v Speaker 1>your your pre animals.
<v Speaker 2>Now this spote you're talking about, do I remember correctly
<v Speaker 2>that you mentioned, uh, this was somewhat near the Jacob's
<v Speaker 2>photo location.
<v Speaker 1>It was, Yes, So the Jacob's photo This was about
<v Speaker 1>fifteen miles north, almost due north of where the Jacobs
<v Speaker 1>photo location was. And it's funny because we actually did
<v Speaker 1>a nighttime investigation there and I got to see my
<v Speaker 1>old friend there because I picked up something on the
<v Speaker 1>thermal with a gigantic head and they came out from
<v Speaker 1>under the from from the press and here there was
<v Speaker 1>a bobcat that was that was kind of stumbling through
<v Speaker 1>where we were. We were just just outside the Jacobs
<v Speaker 1>area where there was there was some actually a regenerating
<v Speaker 1>woods there. So but but yeah, I did some nighttime
<v Speaker 1>investigations here. I talked to some people in that area.
<v Speaker 1>And you know, we haven't had as you know, as
<v Speaker 1>many people saying that they saw something, but we've had
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people say that they've heard things in
<v Speaker 1>that particular area.
<v Speaker 2>What's your take on the Jacobs photos?
<v Speaker 1>You know, I mean, I'm gonna tell you it looks
<v Speaker 1>it looks like a MANGI bear to me, But I
<v Speaker 1>don't know, you know, like I, I'm still trying to
<v Speaker 1>keep it open mind unless I actually saw. There's two
<v Speaker 1>pictures I believe out of that out of that group,
<v Speaker 1>and you know, there the one thing that that kind
<v Speaker 1>of throws a curveball at me with it is we
<v Speaker 1>had and this is a something that CHRON investigated. There
<v Speaker 1>was a state employee that's probably the best way to
<v Speaker 1>put it, from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that had that
<v Speaker 1>had seen what he believed to be a chimpanzee and
<v Speaker 1>it was in Clearfield County, which wasn't that far from
<v Speaker 1>from where that particularly of the A and F is.
<v Speaker 1>He said that this creature it looked like a chimpanzee
<v Speaker 1>until it got up on two legs and and ran away.
<v Speaker 1>It was actually dumpster diving in one of the state parks,
<v Speaker 1>and this was off season, so there wasn't a lot
<v Speaker 1>of people there. So I don't know, you know, like
<v Speaker 1>I said, I I really uh. In my opinion, I
<v Speaker 1>think it's a it's a maze spare, But you know,
<v Speaker 1>I I think having that having someone tell me that experience,
<v Speaker 1>that that happened shortly before it was the same year
<v Speaker 1>that the Jacob's photo was taken, and just a few
<v Speaker 1>months before that, So I don't know, you know, like
<v Speaker 1>I said, I I can't really conclude one one way
<v Speaker 1>or the other on that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a hard one because I mean, there are
<v Speaker 2>it is, in fairness, there are other photos taken from
<v Speaker 2>that camera that show bears. Yes, yes, similar in size, Yes,
<v Speaker 2>But if you remove the bears from the equation, yes,
<v Speaker 2>it kind of looks like a chimpanzee.
<v Speaker 1>It does. It does, which is what this uh, what
<v Speaker 1>this person had seen, like I said, just a few
<v Speaker 1>months before, in forty miles to the west or to
<v Speaker 1>the east there. So we're not talking about something that
<v Speaker 1>happened halfway across the state, you know. We're talking about
<v Speaker 1>something that within a couple of months, you know, and
<v Speaker 1>with the amount of woods and in forest in that area,
<v Speaker 1>it could be the same creature. And that's what that's
<v Speaker 1>actually what this person had had said after the Jacobs
<v Speaker 1>Soto was released that he believed it was the that
<v Speaker 1>was exactly what he saw. So so, like I said,
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a tough one. I think this new photo
<v Speaker 1>that that came out from from in North Carolina, there's
<v Speaker 1>a new photo that just came out that looks to
<v Speaker 1>be a bearer. Yeah, you know, but the Jacobs photo
<v Speaker 1>just has some proportions to it that are they're just
<v Speaker 1>off and you know, but either here nor there, there's
<v Speaker 1>been some historical activity in that area. So you know,
<v Speaker 1>if we can get another game cam photo, that would
<v Speaker 1>be fantastic.
<v Speaker 2>I've talked to a lot of people. You've talked to
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people. You hear a lot of stories,
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes the stories do have certain elements to them supernatural, WU, paranormal,
<v Speaker 2>whatever label you want to call it. Where is your limit?
<v Speaker 2>Everybody has kind of a personal line that they're willing
<v Speaker 2>to keep an open mind and believe up to a
<v Speaker 2>certain point as at least a possibility. Where's your limit
<v Speaker 2>at where it's like, once we reach there, it's just
<v Speaker 2>know this person's line, there's no way that happened.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of you know, it
<v Speaker 1>depends on on the witness. But you know, like I'll
<v Speaker 1>tell you, like, you know, I really I'm not into
<v Speaker 1>the portal thing. I'm not into you know that they
<v Speaker 1>change shapes or turn into you know, orbs. I think
<v Speaker 1>what we're looking at is a plush and cushion blood creature.
<v Speaker 1>Is there some things about the creature that you know,
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say it would be supernatural, but but would
<v Speaker 1>be uh you know, something that that we're not completely
<v Speaker 1>familiar with. And uh, I guess as far as I
<v Speaker 1>can go. As people talked about the fur that uh,
<v Speaker 1>some people have described that you know, the fur could
<v Speaker 1>be particularly at uh you know, maybe the tips were
<v Speaker 1>or or closer to the room would be more of
<v Speaker 1>a clear that uh, so that it blends in more
<v Speaker 1>naturally with the with the environment, which I could see
<v Speaker 1>that and it might give it that shimmering look. But
<v Speaker 1>as for portals or anything like that, I'm I'm you
<v Speaker 1>know here to say it's a it's a flesh and blood,
<v Speaker 1>flesh and blood creature. You know. Years ago I ran
<v Speaker 1>with a with a guy who was a paranormal researcher
<v Speaker 1>who was also in the Bigfoot, and I kind of
<v Speaker 1>brought up something and I'm and I said, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I said, so we're looking at the ghost of you know,
<v Speaker 1>a civil war person. We're looking at the ghost of
<v Speaker 1>a of a revolutionary war uh. You know. Uh, hero
<v Speaker 1>I said, what where's the ghost for the Neanderthals? At
<v Speaker 1>it goes for the crow magnum Man, you know, and
<v Speaker 1>he's like, you know, I think that's right, but no,
<v Speaker 1>I mean it could be I don't know, you know,
<v Speaker 1>we just don't know. Yeah, But and I just kind
<v Speaker 1>of set that off the cuff and the guy's like, no,
<v Speaker 1>I actually believe that then, But to me, and like
<v Speaker 1>I said, I think it's a it's a flesh and
<v Speaker 1>blood creature. And so I came up with this with
<v Speaker 1>this other kind of theory about bigfoot in UFOs, and
<v Speaker 1>I said, Okay, people talk about being abducted by UFOs.
<v Speaker 1>It's a phenomena, you know, people talk about, you know how,
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's documenting. You know, people throughout over the
<v Speaker 1>world have talked about this. I said, well, what if
<v Speaker 1>the bigfoot population is only you know, microfract shift of
<v Speaker 1>the human population, but they're just as important. So maybe
<v Speaker 1>the UFOs are abducting the bigfoots as well. And that's
<v Speaker 1>why we see bigfoots in UFOs together, you know, not
<v Speaker 1>that they really want to be, you know, not that
<v Speaker 1>the bigfoots maybe want to be with the UFOs, but
<v Speaker 1>maybe they're stunnying them as well, you know, But I
<v Speaker 1>don't know, you know, that's that's about as far as
<v Speaker 1>I would take.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I grew up with pictures of UFOs, you know,
<v Speaker 2>pulling cows up in the tractor beams. I mean yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I think any theory is as good as the next,
<v Speaker 2>you know, until until we start to get some solid answers.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, absolutely, And like I said, with Bigfoot, if they're
<v Speaker 1>as intelligent as people people say, maybe they are something
<v Speaker 1>that that the aliens are you know, interested in, and uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, uh, that would probably explain, you know, and
<v Speaker 1>then maybe they're just to the point where they just
<v Speaker 1>don't care about them, you know, as much as we do.
<v Speaker 1>It's not like, you know, they could be sitting there saying, hey,
<v Speaker 1>look at that thing in the sky, you know, and
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, you know, it's a It is an
<v Speaker 1>interesting topic.
<v Speaker 2>Going back to your police training. What's some advice that
<v Speaker 2>you would give bigfoot investigators for when they're interviewing a witness,
<v Speaker 2>maybe just to pull out information and determine if they're
<v Speaker 2>telling the truth or not.
<v Speaker 1>What I would say is there's a lot of good
<v Speaker 1>YouTube videos on interviewing people. I've been through a lot
<v Speaker 1>of the face to face classes with them. But the
<v Speaker 1>biggest thing is, you know, going through in reading about
<v Speaker 1>interview and interrogation and looking at statement and now asis,
<v Speaker 1>whether it's verbal or written. So I don't want to
<v Speaker 1>go too deep into it. I'd rather let the the
<v Speaker 1>viewer or the listener uh go through and explore on
<v Speaker 1>their own. But there because there's so much with it,
<v Speaker 1>and there's also some little tricks and stuff that that
<v Speaker 1>we're we kind of keep under our cup, you know.
<v Speaker 1>But and it's not so much tricks, but there there
<v Speaker 1>are things that we look for when people are when
<v Speaker 1>people are being interviewed, one of the biggest things is, UH,
<v Speaker 1>when people will skip certain aspects of an encounter. You know,
<v Speaker 1>they could describe the uh, you know, what they saw
<v Speaker 1>down to a t you know, even saying it had
<v Speaker 1>crows feet around its eyes and and a white crest
<v Speaker 1>on its chest, but they can't tell you, yeah, how
<v Speaker 1>long it took them to go from you know, where
<v Speaker 1>they were siting down to the car or what they
<v Speaker 1>did afterwards. You know, then at that point you're starting
<v Speaker 1>to think, okay, well, especially for refreshing counter, somebody would
<v Speaker 1>I would remember certain aspects. They may forget certain aspects,
<v Speaker 1>but they're not gonna skip through certain aspects. So we
<v Speaker 1>always look at that I always look to it historical, like,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'll have the person. What I'll do is
<v Speaker 1>I'll have the person you know, talk to me about
<v Speaker 1>some regular details, and then at that point I'm establishing
<v Speaker 1>a baseline with them for you know, just for how
<v Speaker 1>they respond to questions. And then that way, when we
<v Speaker 1>go into the harder questions, now I know where that
<v Speaker 1>baseline is, and are they deviating it from it or
<v Speaker 1>are they you know, pretty consistent with how their baseline was.
<v Speaker 2>What about details that they add. This is something that
<v Speaker 2>in the past I always have used as a way of,
<v Speaker 2>you know, just for my own personal opinion that this
<v Speaker 2>person might be telling the truth. Whenever there's certain details
<v Speaker 2>that to me, if I were making up the story,
<v Speaker 2>there's no reason to add that detail. For instance, the
<v Speaker 2>young man that you refer to earlier. Is somebody going
<v Speaker 2>to make up a story and say, oh, by the way,
<v Speaker 2>it had an erection.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, yes, and I'll tell you what with with
<v Speaker 1>some of the with people leaving out details or adding
<v Speaker 1>details at the end, there are certain details that especially
<v Speaker 1>with this kid here or like when he was talking
<v Speaker 1>about this when we originally you know, talked to him
<v Speaker 1>one on one like, you know, he was able to
<v Speaker 1>keep it because he's He's like, not only did I
<v Speaker 1>see a big foot, but he saw a big foot
<v Speaker 1>with an erection like that to somebody, yeah yeah, so,
<v Speaker 1>which which kind of cut us off guard. But there
<v Speaker 1>was a lot of indicators that he gave us that
<v Speaker 1>you know, he was being honest with us. But I know,
<v Speaker 1>like you, I'll give you an example, and this is
<v Speaker 1>actually something that happened to me. I had a traumatic
<v Speaker 1>on the job incident that occurred. And when I was
<v Speaker 1>going through talking to our critical distress team about it,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm going through through everything that happened. And
<v Speaker 1>then I had a follow up with them and I said,
<v Speaker 1>I said, oh, I also remember something else, and you know,
<v Speaker 1>I went through and it was actually a pretty important
<v Speaker 1>part of the whole you know, incident, but it was
<v Speaker 1>just something that I didn't recall, Like when I was
<v Speaker 1>doing the initial uh speak with our our distress team,
<v Speaker 1>it was something that I just didn't really you know,
<v Speaker 1>think about, you know, like for whatever reason, it wasn't
<v Speaker 1>in my mind. But then the second time when I
<v Speaker 1>was when I was talking about it, I brought it
<v Speaker 1>up with that particular incident. I know, for me, Like
<v Speaker 1>I said, that was that was something that I didn't
<v Speaker 1>I didn't initially I wrote it in the in my report. Well,
<v Speaker 1>I want to go talk to our our distress team.
<v Speaker 1>It was something that I didn't bring up. And you know,
<v Speaker 1>like I said, it was actually a pretty big part
<v Speaker 1>of it. So, like I said, I won't take that.
<v Speaker 1>I won't knock somebody for not remembering some detail like
<v Speaker 1>that because again, and and I'll just go back to
<v Speaker 1>this is unless you're a bigfoot researcher or unless you're
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know, I've heard about some some
<v Speaker 1>really I can't say bad sightings by it, but I'll
<v Speaker 1>go in town in a minute. But uh, for the
<v Speaker 1>most part, you're getting encounter. We're getting encounters or we're
<v Speaker 1>getting visual signs from from people maybe out in the
<v Speaker 1>woods not even knowing that bigfoot exist, right, And then
<v Speaker 1>they see they see something that's seven feet tall with
<v Speaker 1>the cone head that you know, that looks like you
<v Speaker 1>could play NFL you know, uh, offensive line, and they're
<v Speaker 1>gonna freak the heck out, and to them it's gonna
<v Speaker 1>be a traumatic experience. Now I was gonna say there's
<v Speaker 1>bad encounters. When I say bad encounters. I had a
<v Speaker 1>very good friend of mine and he was like, you know,
<v Speaker 1>he told me afterwards, he was like, you know, I
<v Speaker 1>think I saw a big flip and I'm like really
<v Speaker 1>and he was like, you know, he was like, I
<v Speaker 1>didn't even know. It didn't even die on me. He
<v Speaker 1>was like, he's out in the middle of nowhere, off
<v Speaker 1>completely off trail, and he was like, it didn't really
<v Speaker 1>dawn on me. I just saw a guy, you know,
<v Speaker 1>he was walking down at the bottom of the mountain
<v Speaker 1>addressing all black in the middle of the summer, and
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, how far was he? He was like, oh,
<v Speaker 1>it was about three hundred yards away. And I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>did anything did you look at He was like, I
<v Speaker 1>was walking away. He was like, wait, who's walking around
<v Speaker 1>in all black in ninety degree you know, off trail
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, I don allow you know. So yeah,
<v Speaker 1>And when I say bad big footing parts, you know
<v Speaker 1>the ones that are like, you know, happenstance, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like you don't realize the afterwards, like holy coow, that
<v Speaker 1>might have been a big foot. But but again, for
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the people that are going out, like
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the witnesses always spoke with this kid.
<v Speaker 1>He saw the one the year before, but he didn't
<v Speaker 1>expect to see another one a year later, and he
<v Speaker 1>was not into bigfoot at the time. Like he he
<v Speaker 1>kept the first one under you know, basically under wraps
<v Speaker 1>because he didn't want to get ridiculed. And they said, well,
<v Speaker 1>the second one, he let people know, Hey, I saw something,
<v Speaker 1>but he confided to us that hey, what I saw
<v Speaker 1>was you know, was this. But again, you know, like
<v Speaker 1>I said, and that's the other thing too, is how
<v Speaker 1>many people up in our research area, you know, Hunter's fisherman.
<v Speaker 1>You know. I'll tell you another story from up there.
<v Speaker 1>And this was actually close to the area where the
<v Speaker 1>kids saw saw the two creatures previously. And this is
<v Speaker 1>going back in twenty fifteen. I was doing research up
<v Speaker 1>in the area and I was talking to a guy
<v Speaker 1>that was driving around and this was in early spring,
<v Speaker 1>so it was before trout season and it was before
<v Speaker 1>turkey season, before anyone could would come up there. And
<v Speaker 1>the guy mentioned that he saw somebody in a gilly
<v Speaker 1>suit about three quarters of the way up the mountain,
<v Speaker 1>crossing the crossing the thing and he said, who's out
<v Speaker 1>here a turkey hunt? He was like, are they doing
<v Speaker 1>an early season for you know, sometimes they do early
<v Speaker 1>season for kids and stuff. I'm like, no, that doesn't
<v Speaker 1>start for like another three weeks. He was like, well,
<v Speaker 1>the guy's running around up here on the power lines
<v Speaker 1>about three quarters of the way up. I went up
<v Speaker 1>there and I saw where this guy had his signing.
<v Speaker 1>But to him, he didn't see a big foot. He
<v Speaker 1>just saw a guy in the gilly suit, right, And
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna tell you right now, that was straight like
<v Speaker 1>that was like straight, straight uphill. Like I would not
<v Speaker 1>be able to climb that. Even if I got up
<v Speaker 1>to the top and went to the three quarter mark,
<v Speaker 1>it would take me all day to climb back up
<v Speaker 1>to the top, you know, because this this mountain was
<v Speaker 1>just straight, straight uphill and in a gilly suit, in
<v Speaker 1>a gilly suit. So, like I said, this guy may
<v Speaker 1>have seen something, but in his mind, all he saw
<v Speaker 1>was a guy in a gilly suit.
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that happens a lot.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it does. I think it is especially
<v Speaker 1>up in that area.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you don't think that bigfoot exists, if
<v Speaker 2>it's not something that's on your mind and you're out
<v Speaker 2>there and you see something or hear something, you're going
<v Speaker 2>to put the puzzle piece that pops in your head
<v Speaker 2>first that fits, you know, like, oh it must It
<v Speaker 2>had to have been a bear or a person or
<v Speaker 2>somebody wearing a black hoodie and you know, sweatpants. It
<v Speaker 2>it's not on the radar, it's not.
<v Speaker 1>It's not. And even with the guy I was telling
<v Speaker 1>telling me about that's all, you know, the person in black,
<v Speaker 1>he also researches big Foot. So and he and like
<v Speaker 1>I said, he was so kind of pissed off at
<v Speaker 1>himself after the fact because he was like, oh my god.
<v Speaker 1>He was like, I think I just saw one, but
<v Speaker 1>he was like I didn't even He was like he
<v Speaker 1>was just an outher walking. So you know, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>like I said, that's that's always a possibility too. And
<v Speaker 1>uh and again I think, uh, you know, I mean
<v Speaker 1>hearing more and more about you know, big Foot's going
<v Speaker 1>on all fours and and I'm gonna tell you you know,
<v Speaker 1>you get something brownish, you know, uh, darker colored running
<v Speaker 1>on all fours, somebody up here is gonna think it's
<v Speaker 1>a bear. And we had plenty of bears around here,
<v Speaker 1>and it could be a misidentification, it could be, but
<v Speaker 1>once at that uh, We had an encounter that was
<v Speaker 1>reported to us where the guy was driving down the
<v Speaker 1>road and he thought he saw a bear, you know,
<v Speaker 1>on the side of the road, you know, climbing up
<v Speaker 1>you know, the embankment. And he said, I thought, he said,
<v Speaker 1>as he was driving, oh, there's a bear. Until the
<v Speaker 1>bear got up on two feet two very large legs
<v Speaker 1>and made its way up into the woods from the
<v Speaker 1>embankment with very little effort. So he said at that point,
<v Speaker 1>he said, it's not like he told me. He said,
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't like it transformed. He was like, but as
<v Speaker 1>you're driving and you're coming up on this, you think
<v Speaker 1>it's a bear. And then he said it just happened
<v Speaker 1>to stand up and took you know, two steps into
<v Speaker 1>the woods like again, like it was. He said, it
<v Speaker 1>was effort as effortless as what we would walk flat.
<v Speaker 1>This climbed up you know, a steep embankment like it
<v Speaker 1>was nothing, and you know, so uh so. Like another
<v Speaker 1>another encounter that we had. This is going back in
<v Speaker 1>the early nineties, but the person came forward to report it.
<v Speaker 1>He said that he was canoeing and they set up
<v Speaker 1>camp in in a ruraler area here not that far
<v Speaker 1>from where I live, and they thought they saw a
<v Speaker 1>tree like a like a big tree trunk. It was
<v Speaker 1>where a smaller creek was flowing into, uh, into the river.
<v Speaker 1>And he said, yeah, they don't really think anything of
<v Speaker 1>it until they saw this tree trunk stand up and
<v Speaker 1>just go off into the woods. It never looked back
<v Speaker 1>at them, but you know, he said, as it turned,
<v Speaker 1>you know again, you know with this this guy here,
<v Speaker 1>one like one common thing I get is, you know,
<v Speaker 1>you know, bigfoot are bulked up, you know, so uh
<v Speaker 1>because he said it was it was pretty wide. But
<v Speaker 1>as it stood up, he was like, he was like, man,
<v Speaker 1>he was like, that thing looks like Mark Lesner, you know.
<v Speaker 1>So uh. So you know, we get some interesting encounters.
<v Speaker 1>And again, one thing that that John and I are
<v Speaker 1>trying to do and along with a few others, is
<v Speaker 1>trying to put all this data together and try to
<v Speaker 1>find patterns and you know, and and maybe with us
<v Speaker 1>putting these patterns and and d together, you know, maybe
<v Speaker 1>that'll put us into the right place at the right time.
<v Speaker 2>One last question before I finally let you go, Man,
<v Speaker 2>have you seen anything else? Have you seen a UFO?
<v Speaker 2>Did you have any paranormal experiences? Whenever you were running
<v Speaker 2>around with that group. Anything else to report.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I'll tell you UFOs nothing. Yeah, it was
<v Speaker 1>actually uh one time I was doing research up there
<v Speaker 1>and uh, you know, I'm like, holy, yeah, Holy, what
<v Speaker 1>the hell am I seeing? I'm sorry, what the heck
<v Speaker 1>am I seeing? And here I ended up downloading later
<v Speaker 1>on that uh that side of look up. It was
<v Speaker 1>all the.
<v Speaker 2>Starlinks that was gotten quite a few people.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I will say that I do know
<v Speaker 1>that there are stuff, you know that our government you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to say that our government has you know,
<v Speaker 1>has the area fifty one aliens, but I know that
<v Speaker 1>there's top secret above top suit stuff either through well,
<v Speaker 1>they're kind of I think they're kind of doing away
<v Speaker 1>with bowing stunt works, but a lot of stuff coming
<v Speaker 1>from Rand Corporation that is pretty hardcore, like pretty cool
<v Speaker 1>stuff and once once it comes out. But but really
<v Speaker 1>that's that's as far as the UFO UAP thing. But
<v Speaker 1>as for ghosts, I'll tell you I'll leave you with
<v Speaker 1>this one. Is I was working and this is the
<v Speaker 1>whole story that started, you know, the whole paranormal thing
<v Speaker 1>with us with this building. So the building itself in
<v Speaker 1>town where I worked where I still work, actually was
<v Speaker 1>an old high school. And what we found out was
<v Speaker 1>that we did all the research on it. It was
<v Speaker 1>actually the school from when the town was first, you know,
<v Speaker 1>even before the town was officially named, back in the
<v Speaker 1>eighteen fifties. It was basically a big wooden structure that's
<v Speaker 1>sort of on top of this hill at basically in
<v Speaker 1>the center of town. Nineteen ten or I'm sorry, nineteen
<v Speaker 1>oh seven, they tore it down and they built this gigantic,
<v Speaker 1>you know, concrete and marble building, state of the art
<v Speaker 1>at the time, you know, so just as wonderful building.
<v Speaker 1>And they had it as at that point in time,
<v Speaker 1>it was the school, so all grades went there. Eventually
<v Speaker 1>it became the junior, junior high and high school, and
<v Speaker 1>then later on it it was just the they built
<v Speaker 1>a new high school and that was the junior high school.
<v Speaker 1>They stopped using it back in I think it was
<v Speaker 1>the late nineties, like ninety eight ninety nine is when
<v Speaker 1>they the last high classes there. So I'm working Nearro's
<v Speaker 1>police officer, I'm working night shift, and the school had
<v Speaker 1>basically fallen into disrepair at the time, but they they
<v Speaker 1>were getting ready to get the funds to fix everything
<v Speaker 1>up and you know, do what they have to do
<v Speaker 1>to it. But it was still it was still the
<v Speaker 1>old school. And the one thing is is that they
<v Speaker 1>had a indoor swimming pool down there. Well, the indoor
<v Speaker 1>swimming pool that was really really attracted to skateboarders. So
<v Speaker 1>the skateboarders would break in in the at night and
<v Speaker 1>go down there and do their do their stuff, and uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, we'd get called. We'd tell them, hey, you
<v Speaker 1>got to get out of here. So one night shift,
<v Speaker 1>about two o'clock in the morning, we get an alarm call.
<v Speaker 1>So there's uh, myself, my partner, and then we called
<v Speaker 1>an officer over from from the neighboring township to clear
<v Speaker 1>the building. So we're going up. We didn't hear you know,
<v Speaker 1>there was no skateboarders there, you know, because they would
<v Speaker 1>just be at the pool. But we decided, hey, we're
<v Speaker 1>going to clear the whole building. So we go up
<v Speaker 1>to the second floor and the guy that was working
<v Speaker 1>the township, he gets on the radio. He's like, I
<v Speaker 1>got somebody over here. I got somebody over here. So
<v Speaker 1>we all go running and what happened was there was
<v Speaker 1>a there was a classroom that had a divider in
<v Speaker 1>the middle, but they had taken the divider down, so
<v Speaker 1>it's basically one gigantic room. He said, hey, the guy
<v Speaker 1>ran in here. So I said, all right, well, I'm
<v Speaker 1>going to take one door, you take the other door,
<v Speaker 1>and then you know, we have the other officers going
<v Speaker 1>to stay out here in the hallway, and what we're
<v Speaker 1>going to do is we're going to go in make
<v Speaker 1>entry and we'll find this guy. And I asked, and
<v Speaker 1>I said, what did the guy look like. He was like,
<v Speaker 1>oh no, he was dressing all black. All right. You
<v Speaker 1>know it makes sense. You know, it's attractive place for
<v Speaker 1>a burger too, because there's pipes and everything in there
<v Speaker 1>and stuff they could take. So we actually make entry.
<v Speaker 1>And when we made an entry, I saw this figure.
<v Speaker 1>And the way I describe it is, remember people used
<v Speaker 1>to wear there's like nylon suits, like the green Man suit,
<v Speaker 1>you know where it covers our face. It was like that,
<v Speaker 1>but it was all black. And I saw this figure
<v Speaker 1>and it was over by a desk. It ended up
<v Speaker 1>standing up and I saw it. I'm like, there he is.
<v Speaker 1>That thing ran towards my the other guy and just
<v Speaker 1>basically went into the wall, and I'm sitting there like,
<v Speaker 1>what the hell do we just say? He was like, dude,
<v Speaker 1>he was like, I saw the same thing. So ever
<v Speaker 1>since then, I've had a couple other interesting experiences we did.
<v Speaker 1>We got them involved with the ghost hunting group with
<v Speaker 1>going in there then and as it was getting cleaned
<v Speaker 1>up to raise money for uh, you know, for the
<v Speaker 1>for the repairs and everything, and we had some interesting
<v Speaker 1>things happen. You know, we'd hear footsteps, we had somebody whistling,
<v Speaker 1>you know, like audibly, you know that that you could hear.
<v Speaker 1>So we think that whatever was there wasn't wasn't particularly
<v Speaker 1>evil or bad or anything. Probably just didn't realize that
<v Speaker 1>we were going to be there or something. But this
<v Speaker 1>thing just went right into the wall and just disappeared. Uh.
<v Speaker 1>There was another time that we were at at a
<v Speaker 1>uh an old It was an old hotel and the
<v Speaker 1>owners had uh it was actually the original owners. That
<v Speaker 1>family decided to buy the building back and they wanted
<v Speaker 1>to turn into uh into a restaurant. And but the
<v Speaker 1>the lady who owned it back in the day, she
<v Speaker 1>was uh oh boy. She did seances and all sorts
<v Speaker 1>of stuff. She was into all sorts of Cold and
<v Speaker 1>Witchcraft there and we were in there a couple of times.
<v Speaker 1>We kept seeing this guy. We called him Joel. And
<v Speaker 1>the one day, I think it was the first time
<v Speaker 1>that we were in there, it was me and another guy.
<v Speaker 1>We were the only guys there, and then the rest
<v Speaker 1>of the people were female, and they had the the
<v Speaker 1>walls knocked down and you could just see, like, you know,
<v Speaker 1>the studs coming down, and I saw a super thin
<v Speaker 1>guy wearing jeans with the suspenders, with the red flannel,
<v Speaker 1>but I couldn't see his face, and I looked over,
<v Speaker 1>my buddy looked over, the girls looked over there, like
<v Speaker 1>who's here, you know, and whatever it was just disappeared,
<v Speaker 1>and people kept seeing this this guy. The one time,
<v Speaker 1>one of the one of the guys I was doing
<v Speaker 1>research in there, was sitting with his laptop at the
<v Speaker 1>bar and another researcher came in and said, who's the
<v Speaker 1>guys stand up behind you? And he turned around. He
<v Speaker 1>was like, there was nobody here, And the way he
<v Speaker 1>described him was exactly like Joe with the with the
<v Speaker 1>a flannel shirt, with the suspenders, you know, the jeans,
<v Speaker 1>and you know, so I do think that there's something there.
<v Speaker 1>You know with that, but h I try, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'd rather, you know what, I'd rather go out in
<v Speaker 1>the woods where I'm not going to have something that
<v Speaker 1>attaches to me or anything that you know that I
<v Speaker 1>will you know. I mean, the most most I could
<v Speaker 1>get attached is getting a tick or you know, a
<v Speaker 1>leech one going through the swamps. That's that's fine because
<v Speaker 1>I could see it and I could pull it off,
<v Speaker 1>you know. But if I can into a place in
<v Speaker 1>the spirit, you know, it attaches on to you. No,
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to deal with that, you know, So
<v Speaker 1>I'd rather deal with the being in the woods. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>So an old friend of mine once said that he
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to mess with nothing he couldn't punch in
<v Speaker 2>the face.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, absolutely, And that's a great, great way to put it.
<v Speaker 2>Well, Matt, I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Man, fascinating stuff.
<v Speaker 2>What what do you what do you got coming up?
<v Speaker 1>Are you?
<v Speaker 2>Are you guys just gonna focus on the research? Do
<v Speaker 2>you got his conference season finally over?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're we're we are looking to do uh at
<v Speaker 1>town hall uh up in the southern Potter County area.
<v Speaker 1>So but that's just gonna we're we're really focusing on
<v Speaker 1>not not as a festival, but for you know, for
<v Speaker 1>people to come in and share their experiences with us.
<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna probably be doing that sometime in the
<v Speaker 1>late September and then but as for as for anything
<v Speaker 1>else for me, as soon as uh, you know, mid
<v Speaker 1>August rolls around, I'm gonna be spending the majority of
<v Speaker 1>my off time out in the woods, so uh, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and I'll be armed with my with my good camera,
<v Speaker 1>and you know, we're gonna try to get some get
<v Speaker 1>some good data to bring forward. So especially if we
<v Speaker 1>can get any DNA samples. Uh, We're we're looking at
<v Speaker 1>uh you know, working with NC State with that and
<v Speaker 1>you know, so uh you know the best way to
<v Speaker 1>get that is to be out there.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And of course you can check out Matt on
<v Speaker 2>the Sasquatch Experience with Sean Forker and the boys. Got
<v Speaker 2>a whole crew of you guys over there. Let's see here,
<v Speaker 2>James Vance and Henry May the Encyclopedia of the Bigfoot World.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely yes, yes, great group, very knowledgeable, lots of experience,
<v Speaker 2>the Sasquatch experience and how can people reach you directly?
<v Speaker 1>So I could be reached either through Facebook under Matt
<v Speaker 1>Mickey arnor or through Cryptic Wilderness. Is uh as a
<v Speaker 1>page that I've had. I still keep up with it,
<v Speaker 1>even though I don't post a whole lot with it.
<v Speaker 1>And we'll be announcing our new project through the Sasquat's Experience,
<v Speaker 1>hopefully within the next few months, and that's gonna be uh.
<v Speaker 1>We're calling it the Allegheny Plateau Project nice, So keep
<v Speaker 1>an eye open for that.
<v Speaker 2>And as always, if you've had your own encounter with
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot or something else you can't explain that you'd like
<v Speaker 2>to share, send me an email at Bigfoot Crossroads at
<v Speaker 2>gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfoot Crossroads dot com.
<v Speaker 2>You can find links to social media, past episodes, merchandise,
<v Speaker 2>everything all in one place. And until next time, I remember,
<v Speaker 2>there's something in the woods.