Episode 32 - Brian O'Connell (Live Nation President of Country Touring) (1-16-17)

00:00:04
Speaker 1: All right, welcome to episode thirty two. Our guess is Brian O'Connell who your official title is the President of Country Touring at Live Nation. Is that right? Basic? Basically, what it is is if there's a guy that puts on a festival or a major concert tour, you're the guy. And that's I mean, you're the guy. It's someone when someone asks who's the guy, you're the guy. And I think as we talked about this for a minute, people will start to learn because this is something that much like a producer of a television show, even a director of a film, people don't know the importance of these little these clogs until they start to hear what actually goes into it. And I think your job is actually that and so uh, some of the festivals that you do just to kind of run over and you have to help me with some of these. I know you do faster Horses, you do a watershed lake in Chicago. Some of the artists that you do are Blake and Jason, then Urban and Luke and Paisley Flat to my point, yeah, exactly. My point is it's done for about eighteen years. You've done a lot, and I mean you're not even a hundred on the And you're a huge Cubs fan, which we were in Chicago at the same time a lot of the times um during the World Series, and I was just like, and I'd see you there, I wouldn't see you physically because it was mean, it was a mess. Yeah you can walk, No, you could, you couldn't. And I knew you guys were there, and it was everything that I could do to get into Wrigley Field and to get to the seat. And we wound up getting there for the World Series games and the and the actually all the playoff games. We'd get there and I would it would be like the gates would open. I'd wait for the first crush to go in and then go straight in and wind up standing there for hours. It seemed like waiting for the first pitch. The standing room was so full because they would sell it that it was even hard to walk around in the stadium. It was nearly impossible. So you're a huge Cups spand which is the bonus. And today was a big day because the Cubs were at the White House. Cub Cubs were at the White House today, which is in our lifetime. Last time was if they would have done it, Teddy Roosevelt. But in our lifetime, it hasn't happened. In our parents lifetimes, they lost, you know, but we're talking nineteen forty five. I mean you were born in what around. I was born in sixty five. Okay, it was twenty years before I was born that they went and lost. So the futility was amazing. You travel a lot. You have like a Notre Dame bush. The bus that I'm on, yes, is painted. It's kind of a little bit of a funny story with that. Um. I like to do something unique. Um. Kind of in everything that I do, there's always a little touch to it. Um. So my son Brett, who just graduated from Notre Dame, was just going to Notre Dame when we got the bus and we were sitting there talking about it. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? The inside of a bus is kind of the inside of a bus. You know, there's two couches and a table, and you know it's nice, but they all kind of looked the same. There's a few flourishes. So I went with paint. So I got the Notre Dame gold painted onto the bus and my son when he first saw it, I thought you'd think it was cool, and he just kind of shook his head and said, some parents just get a license plate holder. You know that you need a bust. I mean, could you travel? How many days a year you think you travel? Uh? It last year it was forty six weeks. I was, I was gone. So I leave tomorrow night, um, and the next I try to hold the fourth of July sacred Um. Other than that pretty much booked through. It'll be, you know, be November. So and I want to catch up with today, but I want to start back at the beginning for you. And let's just start with an early artist. You brought up Brooks and Dunne for eighteen years. Well, yeah, I started. I started, I met Kicks and Ronnie UM and I guess it would have been two or three. So right when when they hit? Um was when I met them. And I worked with them all the way through from brand New Man to the last rodeo. So what does that mean when you work with them? So Brooks had done, They're gonna go out and I don't know, I don't even know what they're trying to sell to. Like you're the guy you have to pick a place, how many people are going to come into the place. Well, it evolved over the years. So at the time, um, when I when they first broken, when I first met them, I had moved from Chicago to Florida just to get into the game. Um, and I got I got down to Fort Lauderdale and I was working for a guy named Jack Boyle at Cellar Door. And Jack was a traditional rock promoter. And the way that the country at a time was set up, it was kind of like, you know, the Five Families. There was you know, Cellar Door in the Southeast and the mid Atlantic. There was Ron Delsner in New York. There was Arnie and Jerry at Jam Productions in Chicago. There was Paced down in Texas. So the like regional people and very famous you know the promoters, if that's possible. Um. So I just wanted to get into the game. So Jack hired me. I moved to Fort Lauderdale and he made me the marketing assistant marketing director. I even know what the hell it meant. And the worst part about it was he told me it was six hundred bucks a week, and I can't do math that fast in my head. So I had to go back home and tell my wife we were moving to Fort Lauderdale with a two month old for thirty six grand a year. So we go down to Florida and traditional rock promoter, I mean so was the Stones who pink Floid and a promoter like for people that listen now that don't know what a promoter is and like a couple of senterz, what does a promoter do? Oh? Um? A traditional an off promoter um is offered a date on Bobby Bones and the Ridging Idiots. Um, you want to play Fort Lauderdale, Florida, you call that your agent would call the local promoter and say, hey, I have this band that wants to play. Do you know, will you do you know anything about it? Do you have you know? Do you have any interest in this act? You lie and you say, of course I do if I think we can make thirty cents. Yeah, of course it's my favorite band in the world. Um. Then you figure out who the hell the band is and and you go and you find well, I think they can play at this place, whether it's a club, a theater, arena, stadium, field, wherever, and you make an offer. And that's how that works. So does that mean that you are finding the people to front the money. We are the people that front. So you in the early days, you're working for someone the front of the money, and now you're working for an even bigger place that fronts the money, which is Live Nation. Correct love Live Nation, by the way, deep in my heart love Live Nation. And so you front the money and then it's like it's a an investment. I was going to say bet, but yeah, it's a bet. It's like if I'm gonna spend five dollars to buy this band and I needed to make me six or more. Yeah, it's five dollars plus what it costs you to do the show. So you moved to Florida, the promoter brings you down and so then well they hired me to be the marketing director. But I was I was in the country music realm even back into college. But at the time there, the traditional rock promoters were not They didn't deal with country. Country was kind of done in house. So I suggested to Jack Hey in my spare time, which I didn't have any um, would you mind if I continued to develop my country music promoting career. He's I don't care, and I said okay. And then you know, I started to make the calls and say, hey, I've moved from Chicago. Not that everybody was terribly concerned where I was at that time, but I've relocated to Fort Lauderdale and I'm now your guy. And they went, Okay, we didn't care about you in Chicago, why should we care about you down here. But by elevating up to sell our door, there was some legitimacy to it, and um, I remember, you know, I remember, I remember the show. I mean they were sponsored by Miller Lite. I had hair down to hear big old mullet going. It was two or three, and uh, I met a bunch of the you know, I met everybody, you know, including Kicks and Ronnie, and I just started to become more and more involved. So it was, you know, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Pensacola. It was just like you know, so you were finding them places in every one of those towns. Yeah, and then you were taking the money spending it on them, and they were making you money more times than not, correct, and it just led to more and more activity. They trusted you, you trusted them. So that's how kind of a relationship has formed inside of the promotion business. Correct. And so for you say, eighteen years you work to those guys, well, yeah, we've the last rodeo was so I think my math is right, and so were you working with those guys? You get to see them explode in the Superstars. So how big was the venue when Brooklyn Done first started? Can you remember Sunrise Musical Theater? It was thirty three seats okay? And then that was on Brand New Man. At its peak it was multiple nights in arenas. You know, they did I think five back to back years with Reba the Brooks and Done Reba Tour. Um. So that was the deal with the two stages um at either end of the of the of the arena floor and you know, they pop up over here and they pop up over there, and but yeah, then it was you know then it was just constant, you know, consistent business all the way through uh what was it two thousand and let's see, make sure I get to try through through nine or so? So that that run there would have been what seven years roughly, um, And then we kind of regrouped and we invented a new, a new thing, and I had traveled inside of that area too. I wasn't still in Lauderdale. I was down there for three years, then went to d C and then came here. And then you have to come here because everything was here if you were going to be in country or did you yes, yes and no. Um. The fractured story is that after three years in Fort Lauderdale, Jack moved me to Washington, d C. And a lot of great things happened for us in d C. Um, not the least of which was a greater um scope on the country stuff that I was doing. It was pretty much I did whatever Jack told me to. My job was. Jack was a legend in the businesses. You know, if there was a mount rushmore, He's on it. UM. So I used to tease everybody, they say, what do you do for a living? I said, whatever that guy's that. Whatever Jack says is what I would do, and then I do country. So when all of the consolidation happened, much like the radio business, at one point we were clear channel UM. When all of that was going down, Jack, you know, I think it was UM called me into the office and never forget it, and he said, he called me kid, and he said Okay, kid, you and your family are moving to Nashville. And I just looked at him and I was like, what I do wrong. I'm in the fifth biggest market in the country doing the Rolling Stones one weekend and you know, the Shania Twain the next weekend, and this is that anything? And Jack moved me to Nashville because in case all of that consolidation failed miserably, he knew I'd be able to get a job. So that's kind of how I wound up here. But um it you you have to is chicks always says you must be present to win. So you moved to Nashville. Is that when it was starting to just the country for you? Since you were Yeah, it was pretty much just country for me. Um. Throughout the late nineties. I book some some stuff, but but at the time the business was going more national, national tours, national consolidation. Um, so the specialists kind of we kept our niche um, but it's pretty much of all country. What does it take to put on a show? Let's say, um, for example, you're gonna do an Al Deane show, an aw Deane tour, So Al Dean's playing in Lexington, Okay, so so what goes into al Dean's gonna play that rop in Lexington, going all the way back to square one. Make sure that you're not competing with the University Kentucky men's basketball team number one, whether they're on the road. I don't care if they're playing on Mars. You don't play the same day that they're playing. So I don't know how granular you want me to get on that. I'm interested in myself and how the steps go because you know this is gonna happen with all the artists and all the shows. So okay, so first, uh, conflicts within the area, Well you have to take it back. If you've got to peel this back. The only way for me to answer it is to kind of give you the whole overview. So it's you know what I do is is touring. So it's not just the Lexington Show, it's how does the Lexington Show fit into the artist X their their year. So they give me a set of parameters which says we're going we're available to work from here to here, and from here to here and from here to hear whatever. And I'm we're going to go on vacation here and we've got kids things there and whatever. So we have blocks of time the record is going to drop here, and you know, imagine it like you know, just like anything else, like making a cake. Here's all the ingredients. The tour is one of the ingredients to the artist's career that year or that you know, that year or two or three. So we we sit down and we meet with usually with the artist management in the aid to seeing we go, okay, let's lay it out. Let's you know, start with a blank piece of paper. So if you go look in the back of my truck right now, you'll see my backpack that you know, makes me a little nervous. It's as far away from me, but it has you know, it's got everything in it. It's got the whole life. And I still keep it in pencil because that's how I learned. But um, we we sit down and we say why Lexington. Okay, Well, Lexington works because it's a market we haven't been to. It's traditionally a good market. It's got X number of seats. We can potentially make this much money. Um, we need to be somewhere in between Charleston, West Virginia and Indianapolis. We would probably do that but it's just it's in the middle. So, um, it's a short jump for the for the crew. Um, it's a good building. And you know, and if we haven't overplayed it, it's it presents great opportunity for the artist. So you're looking at a lot of things. You're looking at again and that's why shows are so close to each other on the road. I say close relatively speaking, because you got to get a bunch of stuff somewhere the next day. Yeah, the rule. It's funny when you when you travel. You know, when you when you're when you're sitting in a routing meeting and you're sitting there routing a tour. If you've never ridden from from let's call it Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, seems like you just kind of come out of the venue and turn right, go east right, huh, up and down up, and there's mountains, so it's not an easy ride. And you've got to take into account the weather. You know, if you're going to do that in February, there's a chance you don't make it. You know, you've there's a lot of different factors that you that you really have to consider. Because the men and women that jump off that bus at seven thirty in the morning to chalk the floor. Um, are also the last ones that went to beet the night before when they got every all the gear out. So you have to really take the what we call the five hundred mile rule. If it's within five miles, we can do it. Yeah, but it depends on how many trucks you have. It depends on how much personnel you have it. It just depends. You probably shouldn't if you're seven plus trucks. Anybody with six trucks out there now hates me, but um, you know, it's it's just a matter of how elaborate is your set, how elaborate is your load in, what's the load outlook like, what does the load in look like. If you're going into a building that has two load in bays and you've got a five hundred mile jump, you're not going to be on time. It's not gonna happen. It's impossible. So you picked a venue and again, well does you hypothetically Alexason, Well you're Alexas and you've picked the spot. Kentucky is not playing home or away. It's not basket football doesn't matter. It matters SEC football. Matters, even if it's it just shout out and tuck you. But okay, so you make sure there are no conflicts. Okay, you have the building. So so what's next? Pick a date to go on sale? Um? You know the in two thousand and seventeen. Now, Um, the biggest problem that we have is noise. There's a lot of noise out there. People are distracted. Um, so you got to pick an on sale date. That makes some sense. You have to get in people's way. You don't just buy um, you know, ten spots on the local radio station and letter rip. You know, that was the old days. Now it's a social platform, it's a digital platform. How do I get ingrained into the fans brain to cause them to put time aside on a Friday morning? Um? You know, I don't know if you've noticed that all of the on sales have shifted to Friday. We were at the forefront of that. Um, whether by whether it was on accident or just comments. I used to I like to say it was common sense. But why why would it be common sense? Why Friday? Why? Why was that the deal that all tickets I go out? It used to be Saturdays because people weren't working and they'd go line up to buy tickets. Well, that hasn't happened in you know, a decade and a half. So we were like, why are we still doing this on Saturdays? Why are we screwing with people's Saturday mornings. Let's do it Friday when they're sitting in front of their computers. It just makes sense. And everybody went, oh, wow, that does make sense. It was it was a big deal to talk people into going on sale on Fridays because they're in the office now. They're in the office now, But it was It's just it's just like anything else. You're moving, you're changing, of you're changing. I don't want to say the word tradition, but this is how it's always been done. It's a culture shift, culture shift. So okay, tickets, if you pick you you pick your date with tickets go on. So alright, tickets go on, so they sell pretty well, then I'll sell out this up pretty well. What do you what do you do? What's the next figure out? How to get it too too? Well? That that's the goal. Um, you know you don't at least with me, and I'm I'm assuming that everybody's that does what I do is exactly the same. You're not okay with you know, half a house. If if you if you guess that wrong, that this artist is playing a let's call it a twelve thousand seat building and they do six. Okay, one of two or three things has happened. Either your your stomach was bigger than your than your appetite, or UM the artist and their team, if you're in a one off situation, UM has a higher opinion of themselves. You know, they need to play the giant arena and if it, you know, if it doesn't sell out, it's obviously not their fault, it's your fault as the promoter. UM. Or you just play the wrong building at the wrong time. So show comes on sale, whatever show it is, you play in twelve thousand seats, it does six on the on sale. You've got some issues. You've got some issues. I don't care where you are. You've got to get You've gotta get you gotta get there. So you just you dig in and you start going, all right, you know, we're then you look at the wraps. What what does it do? Every day? You know, do you see anything that you're doing advertising or promotion? Wise that spikes something, um, and then how many days are left? Let's see average, how many of your left? And then you start doing the math in your head, going okay, you know it looks like if we do nothing, we're going to get to eight. How do I get from eight to twelve? You know? So it's constantly so ticket So it's the day of the show, all right, take me to the day of the show. Day of the show hopefully is anticlimactic. The goal is boring, the goal is mundane. Um. The riggers marked the floor at you know, seven thirty eight o'clock in the morning. Are you there for that? Yeah? Now am I standing next to them? No? But there because any of you need to be. Yeah, there's there's production managers and you know all that that that are there and standing next to the rigors. But I'm not gonna tell you that I've chalked the floor in a while. Um. I'm I'm usually awake, but I'm not doing that. Um. But you what you want to do is you want to make sure then you want to hit your marks during the course of the day. So you want to you want to make sure that you're not keeping stage hands longer than you actually need them. You want to make sure that you're not going into overtime with that. You want to make sure that you're clean, on deck, ready to go for sound checks, etcetera. Um, to make sure the flow of the day is normal, because remember, of the eighty or so people on a major call it three act tour, you've got eighty people's routines that you have to deal with. They they're people are habitual, so they want it boring. Um. You want to get up, have it work right. Make sure that everything technically is done properly. Make sure the breakfast is hot. You know, just it's the little things. If catering sucks, it's gonna be a bad day. It's gonna be a bad day and there's nothing you can do. But you can have the greatest show in the world, but if catering sucks, you're dead. So day of ever, it's being rebuilt like it's been built twenty times before. It's been rebuilt. Any major problems where it's like the screen will not work, it's happened like it happen. It's the night of the show in our biggest piece does not work. I'll tell you what I've seen. You know, I've seen the look, um, get the call on the radio. I've seen the look. You know, oh my god, you know upstage center is down or god forbid, it rained the night before and like, you know, let's say it's a twenty by thirty panel, you know, made up of small squares and the middle one doesn't work, and you're going, oh boy. But I'll tell you what. The thing that the people don't understand is the level of sophistication that crew guys have been and women. Um, the technical coal expertise that these people have baffles me on a daily basis. And I'm not blowing smoke. I'm going I'm looking at this thing. I can't get my television to turn on. Okay, I'm not afraid to say it. I don't know what the you know, you know, you walk me up to look at your little soundboard right there. I could probably figure it out, because I've got I'm not an idiot. But you get into some of these digital panels and digital consoles and digital monitors and whatnot, and it's like, oh god, you know, I can't get my my MacBook to reboot. But these people they don't. I haven't seen anybody freak out in a long time. They have a level of expertise that makes it so they go, Okay, I know how to get to that um, and they do it and they take pride in it. So I really haven't seen a I've seen it fail, but I've also seen it fixed, and it's of the time it's fixed. Have we had to to shuck things off stage? Absolutely? Absolutely. Are there times where people come, oh, I want all this pyro, but and I'm sure insurance that the more pyro, the more insurance, is that it really not really I mean yes, but it's not really a deterrent one pyro all pyro. If there's one thing that blows up, everything blows up, Um, yeah, it's not a it's it's not necessarily a if you have you know, flashpots or you know whatever whatever different types of pyro that there are. Once you've got it, you've got so um. Is it technically tougher. It's hardest on the band. It's hardest on the band because you know, you're standing there playing bass blowing up all around, and you in your mind wanders and you miss and you're not paying attention to where you are in X song and all the sudden thing blows up right next time. You really have to be aware of that, don't. Oh yeah, have you have you heard? Have been there when the accents babined um. I've never seen a nax. I've never seen an accident. I've seen you know, I've seen various band members come off stage unhappy, you know, because the shower, the curtain, you know, the sparks curtain that comes down, you know, gets in their hair, and you know they're like, am I on fire? Or am I not on the fire? You've been on stage enough times wearing monitors. You're monitors. You can't hear anything. You're in the bubble and you know, and I'm you know, I'm standing two feet away from you. And if the band is still playing, and you know, you try to communicate with them, your hair is on fire. They can't hear you. So you just kind of tap them on the head. You stop dropping roll on. So, okay, Bryan O'Connell is here and and that's basically a day of show. That's a day of show. And I want to get into festivals in a second. I want to get into of the artists you work with. I'll talk about Blue Apron for one second, one of our awesome sponsors, and listen, not all ingredients are created equal, fresh, high quality ingredients that make a real difference. I use Blue Apron because I can't do you cook on the bus? How do you do doting? Aforementioned catering? Really, and that's why catering is so good if you're if when you're there, I bet catering is killer when you're there. I've been special catering. Listen with Blue Apron, it's affordable. They send you all the ingredients, there's a card you can read the card that tells you how to make it. And this week there's a check out the men. You get the first three meals for free, free shipping, Blue Apron dot com slash bones, Blue Apron dot com slash Bones. You love how good it feels, not easy it is and you can make your own and um, you look like a master chef. And so you're not a cook at all, not not one of your many talents. I can cook, but I just garbage? What what what are you? What's your talent? What's my talent? I'd be surprised to know that you blank boy, I guess my I don't know, the only answer is is that if there's a game to play, I'll play it. If there's a contest to have, if you we keep if we can keep score, I'll do it. You're just a competitor. I'm just I'm a competitive black check. Yeah, if I have my choice, I'm not. Poker's too slow. It's too slow for me. That all that all, just all of that looking around. Just give me the cards. Was it add up to yes or no? How does your like can be able close to you when you're on the road forty weeks plus a year? Do they like that? Um? Who? The artists know? Like in your personal Oh? Um, we're used to it. I mean the kids are gone, so you know I'm when I say I'm gone, I'm gone four days a week. So it's no, I always I always explained to people. You know, people think of that as a big number. My father sold Cement in the nineteen forties, fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties. I guess it would have been and he was gone. He left, you know, Monday morning and came back Friday night. I'm just the opposite. I leave Thursday night and come home Monday morning. So it's it's not that big a deal. I want to play some artists and just get your just you're you're taking these guys personally, and I've you know, I know a lot of these, if not all these guys here, and you've worked closely with these guys for a long time. So we'll start with I'm just Blake Shelton. Cow me about Blake. Blake has not changed one bit since the first time I met him. I mean, he was out with us UM on Kicks and Rownnie Shows a bunch. I've done a bunch of headline days with Blake. But he's exactly the same guy. You know, he may live in l a h disproportionate amount of the time now, but he's the same guy that I met, you know, back on on Austin when Austin his his first single and the Bullet Cowboy had Blake days. You've got to see Blake as an opener. So and and this gonna be the case with a lot of these guys, like you've seen them grow from the tiny baby act to you know, the arena act now. And so what's a young Blake Shelton quiet? Really, yeah, real quiet? He was He was quiet Um, he he my recollections of it. You know, he was always fun to be around, but he you know, he he kept himself. I mean, especially when you're just starting out, you know, as a as a what we call in Nashville a baby act. Um. You know, you don't you're busy, you know because the whomever labels managers, agents, whatever have you doing stuff all the time. And you you you cruise up to the show and you're done by you know, probably what seven fifty eight o'clock, and then there's a lot of downtime. Um, either you leave and go to the next gig, or you hang around. You know, Blake was always hanging around. Um, but he you know, just he kind of kept to himself. All right, let's move over to Brad. Paisley. Tell me about Brad. I love this dude. He's he's amazing to me. I mean, just the thing and going back to your question before, and I think I can answer these questions easier. What's my talent? If I had a talent, it's being able to watch these acts when they first start out and go, Okay, I see I see something beyond the song there, um, Paisley, When I first started seeing Brad perform. It was obviously the guitar playing. But he's just so funny. He's so dry, and he will crack you up without even It's like it doesn't he didn't have to think. He's that funny. And I don't know that a lot of people know how funny he is. He's a guy that when I hang out with you gotta be on your toes and that's rare, but I like to keep people on their toes with Brad. I'm like, oh boy, did you sit back and wait? Well, the the yeah, the the irn of of Brad, who is is not a drinker having an Irish pub in his house. It cracks me up. So when Brad came up, he was known as the guy that plays crazy guitar. Yeah, that was that was obviously at the forefront, you know, um, but it was you know, it was not a um it wasn't It wasn't like, oh my god, this guy can play but he can't perform. It was, you know, wow, this thing, this this guy crazy talented. And then when the music, you know, started to come together, look, you know, he exploded. Who did you see early? And I have a couple of artists in mine and I've talked to you, but I'm curious to know your thoughts that you saw. They were so good, but it just took a while because it it just took a few songs before anything popped. And then when it did, it finally popped. Um boy, M well. I mean a great example would be Toby. I mean, come out in two uh with um should have been a cowboy. I think it was ninety two most played song of the nineties. Um. And then it would have been you know, then there were hits in between, but it never took off. It was kind of slow and steady, slow and steady, build build build build build, and then how do you like me now? And then it went crazy? Um. And the backstory on that everybody knows. But you know, it's like, you know, there's a guy who's stuck to his principles and and and said, I'm I'm not going to be you know, you're Huckleberry, as he would say. I don't know that everybody doesn't know the backstory. I but I do. We do. I think we're close to it. Tell the backstory that well. And I don't know that I'm qualified to tell the backstory. I can tell you, you know, I was. I remember when it happened, and it kind of goes back into crystallizing into that two thousand a year, Um, two thousand one year that I was talking about with Kicks and Ranni, we invented this thing called the Neon Circus, and um, the invention of that was was kind of hysterical. But when we went out to get support for that tour, we were going to do this kind of all day carnival thing and it was the Brooks and Duns Neon Circus and wild West Show and Toby hadn't released how Do You Like Me Now yet, and it was kind of banging around town, you know, people were playing and everybody had a copy of it. There was the whole thing with Mercury I think it was at the time and um DreamWorks where he went in and bought the album back um with his own money and then went over to DreamWorks. And nobody wanted him to release that song, uh, because it was going to be offensive to somebody's or women or whatever it was at the time, and uh, he said, no, this is a hit. This is a big old hit, and and he was right, and it that that was the kind of thing that was. That's one of those stories. That's one of those epic music growth stories where an artist, you know, comes out he's the most played artist of the nineties with a song from and here we were and I guess it would have been I'm you know, I'm within twelve months there, Um, when how do you like Me? Now? Existed? And he you know, stuck his his foot in the ground and said, no, this is what I'm doing. If you don't like it, I'll buy it and I'm gonna go do it myself and and the rest was history. So we talk about Toby as a guy again with Brad and with Toby. I've got to open both of these guy and be friends about these guys. So talk about Toby as the dude and the man's man guys. Guy. Um, one of the Yeah, he I it's a linebacker. Literally. It's always good. We play a lot of basketball on the road, and I mean we we would joke. Um. It was me, him, his tour manager or tour manager Mitch or his assistant Mitch Kurt Motley who has been his agent forever. Um and Scotty Emrick songwriter. That was our basketball team. And we take on all comers and we would do just throw the ball underneath. All right, let's move over to oh Man. One of the guys that I've been closest to is Darius. So talk about Darius for a second. I met Darius in d C when in his previous band UM, and he came up to the rock club scene. You know, that was what ninety three, No. Ninety five. So he was playing UM with with that band UM in the clubs, you know, beating around South Carolina and the you know, the Eastern Seaboard, and they were a real popular UM kind of unsigned band. And then wow, they put that record out and and took off. And it was funny because I was doing a show. The place was called the Bayou in d C. UM in Georgetown, and I was doing the shows and you know, this place held maybe five people, and um, I mean Dave Matthews played there, you know, all that, all everything in that era played at the Bayou, and um he he actually took our production manager and took him on the road with that with Hoodie and Globally and Rob Is in the Carolinas. And then he came Rob came back and was like, I ain't doing that anymore. He's like, that is way too much fun. And but Darius is I mean Salts of the Earth Man. He's he's one of our you know, one of the guys when we go out for like for the a c M is coming up in April. We've got a little group text, you know, it's like okay now and well, you know, we all kind of appear at the blackjack table and he's he's one of those guys that I you know, every minute that you get to hang around with him, you're better for it. You know. It's and I'm not I'm not being all you know, it's just fun. He's a fun dude. What about Let's let's talk about a guy like Eric Church's talking about a got the snow for his live shows. Yeah, I mean Church playing live. That's his wheelhouse on stage in front of the people. Talking about Eric for a second. Well Eric, Um, it's it's I'm glad you asked me about Eric because Eric actually works with another guy. He doesn't work with me, and I have, um, I have nothing but respect for him. And I'll tell you mentioned the faults. Eric played two of the festivals last year, played the festivals that I created, and I was so excited for Herrick Church to play those festivals. I was nervous because I wanted to show him, um that it's not just you know that that you could do. You could curate a festival in a certain way like artists centric and in he you know, I think he was flying in, flying out because he really wouldn't work in last year. And I finally uh got a chance to say or I said hi to him at out of Watershed and uh, he was very complementary. Um. And I you know, I asked him, I said, you know, is it is it what? You you know? Was it as as advertised? Because I had told I had sent word back through Jay and and his management, you know, you know, please tell him I want his review of the festival. And he said it was cool. You know, he was very very complimentary. So you know, yeah, he's all about the life gig and that connection that he has his fans. He is never gonna go away. It's not gonna ebb and flow with hit singles. Um, he's done it. He's again there's a theme here. He's done it his way. Um, and I think that's to be applauded. Um and supported. But you know when we say that Church is you know the live is live is the thing with him, it's also about the album as as a piece of art. You know, he's not that anybody else isn't. But he really meticulously goes through that album project UM, and if you read about it, it's you know, it's a fascinating project. It's kind of like a throwback to you know what I would think, you know, the Beatles were like or the Rolling Stones at a certain point, we're like or one of those classic rock acts that I'm a giant fan of UM who put out records that you know, we're about something and you know he's just not putting out UM. There there's a theme that runs through it is probably a her with me saying what about someone like Keith Urban crazy talented? Right? He was on that Neon Sarkist tour too, you're picking them all. He was the opening actor. We just finished, Um what I think was Keith's best tour that I've seen him do, this Rip Chord tour. Um. He did an amazing job of bringing that record and another album guy Okay, much like Eric Um, but he really brought that album to life on the Rip Chord tour UM in a way that UM, he played a lot of that record early on. Like first show was in Kansas City, and uh, I remember seeing the set for the first time. It was blazing hot and UM and he was out working out through the final sound check and all that kind of stuff, making sure all the all the stuff worked, UM and just getting granular on the set list and you know, flipping one song here and one song there and introducing that. He wove that entire record Rip Chord into the show and what I think turned out to be in an amazing way because the song you're just playing blue UM. You know, it wasn't released as a single until you know, the fall of this past year. But the first tour date on that was like in June, I think, I want. I think that was the beginning of it, UM, either late May or June. UM. And it was right there in the middle of the set unknown, you know, unknown. You know, we still we live in this weird Nashville world if you put the record out. But you know, so the fifth single, you know, somehow becomes a new song. You know, a year and a half later, I'll ask you about Luke now, I think as they artist. Let's talk about Luke Glass. Oh boy, um entertainer, I mean he is. They're probably one of the most unique individuals I've ever met. Well, he's he's thinking seven. He may not give you the appearance at any given moment that he's but he's thinking about five moves down the road. You could be sitting there, goofing around having a beer, and all of a sudden he'll say something and you go, wait, what, how where did you pull that from? And he's like, oh, no, I was thinking about this. So it's like it's his brain is constantly spinning. So you know, he's he's very very thoughtful. Um, he's extremely he's extremely smart, you know. And the thing about Luke is he's fiercely loyal. Fiercely loyal. Um. He will he will remember a compliment um that somebody gave him, you know, and may have missed. You know, like let's say one of the video guys, you know, as he's walking off stage. You know, they'll say, hey, man, I was a great show, you know, and he's just you know, pulling his ears out and trying to get his head to stop buzzing and buzzing from the ears. Anyway. Um, I've seen him. I've seen him a bunch of times. Go back to that video guy on his way out to the bus and go, hey, thanks man. I you know, I was thinking about something else. I was just coming off stage. I just wanted to let you know that I heard you and I appreciate what you said. That doesn't happen. That's the kind of guy Luke is. That's that's that's the thing about him that it doesn't necessarily differentiate himself from anybody. That's just what He's just a good person. We're gonna play this methode real quick. This is one of our sponsors here. 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With singers, it's really difficult if Luke's got the flu, or if if an artist has the flu, the I can't be out in the middle of the stage kind of sick for an extended period of time without graphically grossing everybody out. UM. You hope to find that out early on in the day and then you you know, if you're just sick, you're just sick. You just gotta reschedule. UM. But you know, you get you get a doctor as fast as you can. UM. The bigger problem is you have one site you want to call it just as you guys being not necessarily Usually every market there is a doctor that we have, UM, but we don't. We don't. It's not like we require a doctor to stand in the corner all day and pay them to do nothing. UM. Usually our local office has a relationship with a local doctor. The bigger problem, the more a chronic problem, if you will, is when they get horse, when a singer gets starts to lose the pipes, UM, and there's you know, there's really not a lot you can do. I mean, you can go quiet, um you but it once it's gone, especially you know, high registered singer like you know, like Gary Lavox, you know that that is a special place that that that guy can get to with that voice. And if it goes, it's gone. So then what what do you have to cut shows and come back later? Does that cost you money to do that? It does? Um, but you can't. And you know there's one thing you've gutting one out, you know. Um, that's one thing. Um. Most of the artists, especially now, um, they know they know when they're starting to feel it and when they're starting to feel something coming on, especially once with kids, you know, the human Petrie dishes. I mean, you know, I remember when my kids were young, it was like, oh my god, Riley's got a cold. Stay away, you know, I don't you know, please don't come near me because then I'm gonna go take it on the road and get eighty other people sick. Um. When an artist, generally speaking, when they feel a cold coming on, they go into prevent um, they go into that prevent defense and they get real quiet, and they there's a lot of sleep because sleep, really on the road is is the thing you don't get enough of, uh, and the thing that can cure anything. Um. But yeah, the once once vocals are vocals worrying me a lot more than having a head cold. Let's talk about a few of the festivals. Uh so what Watershed, Fast Horses, Lake Shake three um is the fourth one and that's up in New York. Vegas. Oh, that's a big new in Vegas. That people that's like people, here's what people of because these a lot of my friends, artists that tell me things I probably wouldn't tell you. People love the Vegas Festival. The artists do. It's and it's a newer one, right is third or fourth year. They love that festival. The Watershed is awesome because it's the location. People love to go there because of just where it is. And look when you get there, like it is legit impossible, it's it's watershed is literally impossible to describe. So let's do let's break them down. Let's like, I want you to describe it. You said it's impossible to describe watershed. It's up in Oregon. No, it's it's it's almost in the middle of Washington State. So that's the same to me. It's it's it's actually closer to Seattle than it is Spokane, but it's it's it's on the Columbia River. It's so it's close to Seattle. It's two hours east of Seattle and two and a half hours what's Spokene. Well, you're right right in the middle, five hours from Kelowna. And you know, in case you care, uh see this STI all in the middle of the Northwest, which for me, I love it up there and I go to Portland, I go to Seattle. But it's so isolated. Yeah, yeah, how difficult does it put a festival up where it's so isolated. It's funny because we have It was the first one that I ever came up with, okay, and it was it was dumb that I didn't come up with it beforehand. Um. It's at a place called the Gorge, which is an established amphitheater setting um with a stage and it does shows and it has camping. Why did it take me twenty years to figure this out? I don't know, Um, but it it was. It's it's renowned, so it's not it is in the middle of nowhere, but everybody knows it's there. It's one of those things. Um, it's like mont Rushmore. It's like, you know, we know where it is. We may not go to Rapid City all that often. But we know Mount Rushmore is there. Same thing with people in the Northwest, they know that the gorge is there. So yeah, we we said, hey, why not, let's let's let's do a whole country show. All my listeners in Takoma and up in the North's gonna kill me for missing mess in the states. Sut there, my bad. So let's go over to Faster Horses. I'm just going from memory here. That is more my I have to go buy my stations, like I'm till I'm on a Toledo and it's a little in the map above Toledo. Yeah, just a little bit. It's in Brooklyn, Michigan. Um, Faster Horses was um came on the heels of Watershed. So Watershed came out the first year and did it? Did Okay? I mean you know first year festivals are not They don't do great. Like, let's let's take your step back. You say that festivals as opposed to tours, Like, what's the bigger risk for you guys? Oh boy? Um, Well, the way that I do things, which is I deal with every little tiny piece of minutia. What color is that chair going to be? What why is what does the what does the artwork look like? What? You know? What is backstage gonna what's the backstage compound gonna look like? Because it's the festival, I'm hosting a party on both sides of the barricade. Okay, So the artists who know me, and most of them do, they expect a certain level of of UM what I tell them? Um, there's not. I always tell the artists my festivals are going to be different than normal, than your normal every day festival. Um. For young acts, there's not going to be a sea of white chairs in front of you when you go on at three o'clock in the afternoon. I hate that. Artists hate that, so I decided I'm not going to do that. Um. For the fan, they're not going to have to stand behind the white chairs. And what the white chairs mean? It's the v i P. People that don't show up till later. And it's a bunch of empty space that you're playing too if you're playing early, because they're not there yet because they bought the v i P To come for the big acts at the end. Correct, So I I make sure that the front of the stage is clean, you know, clean meaning nobody there. If you're a fan and you bought the in the case of Watershed, the ticket the last one, you can stand in front of the stage, just like the person who bought ticket number one. It doesn't matter. Was that controversial inside your cluster, They were like, Okay, we'll cool. That's the beauty of it. It's it's you know what. I'd like to think of it as the festival side of me is the touring side of me, fixing all the ship that's wrong that we do on a daily basis that we see and we go. God, I sure wish that wasn't there. I wish this would be better. I wish this made more sense. But when you're trying to wedge a tour into you know, sixty different buildings, because they're not all the same. Even if they you know, if they have a hockey team in them, or if it's an amphitheater, or if it's a small arena, none of them are the same. So it's a different thing. Every day. When you have a festival, you get to build your own stuff. So let's build it the right way and let's talk to people. What do you want? Faster Horse is one of my favorite things that happened. Keith played it um two years ago. It was two summers ago, and his production manager is Baha Randy Fletcher, who was with Brooks done for a millionaires. And Uh, I said to Baja, Who's I trust him? I said, Baja, he was on a segway. I said, I need you to ride around the backstage compound and the front of house at the festival ride all the doors don't open till two thirty. Take your segway and go tell me what I screwed up, because I've been staring at this. My team and I have been staring at this four months. Now here you are, we are. It's no more dress rehearsal. It's time to go. And he came back and he paid me the best compliment. He goes, I can't find anything. He goes. Every time I tried to look for something that you screwed up, it wasn't screwed up. It sounds like the festival things a big source of pride for you, like Haven's having the best festivals because Lake Shake is legitly awesome. And first of all, I love Chicago. I'm a huge Cubs. To me, I'm a die hard like, and it's at a great time, and it's that's the water and everything about it just seems amazing. And talking about Lke Shake ver Seguin Well Lake Shake is scary as hell for me. It's my hometown. So if I screw this up, you know home, you know, it's just it's defeating um. So we took you know, we took the idea of of going down on the water in into a place that's old Mixfield is where it's held, a place called Northerly Island, which is almost impossible to say, does not roll off the tongue, but the view is unbelievable. The view of the of the skyline behind the stage is amazing. So I've got a great country market and I put it on an island that you can't park at. So it's it's taking the investment of getting people used to coming down there. And we're in year three now, I feel like it's gonna it's gonna really pop it up. You know. The first two years. First year, it does what it does. We did much better the second year. I don't know if you saw it, but CMT filmed Jason's performance for the c MT Concert of the summer last year from Leg Shake, and it was cool as hell to have, you know, helicopter flying over and getting all that visual um. But you know, again with Leg Shake, it's you know, it's it's it's just a sea of people. Um. There's you know, stands that are pushed back, you know, states left and stage right. Um. And it just kind of really frames what we're doing there. But the idea of standing, you know, in the water, because that's you are in the water. There's boats on your left and open water on your right, with the Chicago skyline in front of you on a beautiful summer night. It's it's killer. You sounds like you love all all four of them. You have a different affinity for, Like I'm stubborn on Vegas. I'm stubborn on Vegas. See horses was funny because they had to talk me into it. Okay, I didn't get it. I didn't get it. So we went up there when it when it started, and we had an opportunity. And I'm telling you right now and and hopefully one day I'll be able to show you what I'm going to describe to you. But the spot that faster horses exist, and it's the biggest of the four. It's it's forty. Last year we did forty people. Um on that specific piece of land, there is one volt outlet and an old pay phone. That's it. It's a parking lot. It is a grass parking lot for the adjoining NASCAR track Michigan in a National Speedway, and the people at m I s at the time I went up there to look at it. It's where I'm going tomorrow night. I've got a meeting up there on Wednesday. Um. So they're on the first trio up there. They're showing me the track and I'm going looking around with this big speedway, big empty speedway, bunch of hundred thousand seats, bleachers, whatever, and I'm going I hate this. I hate this. This is awful. And um so then they started showing me the rest of the land that they had parking lots. You know, this is where the people will park and blah blah blah, and here's all of our They have a great job of having these campsites. Um there's nine of them, I believe, um up there that function for the races. And they're like, well they can camp in here and come into the to the track. And we'll do the concert in here and then they can go back to their campsites. And I remember, and I've got pictures of it. Um, I'm wandering around. There's about there's a little bit of snow. It was kind of like banked up, you know, but it wasn't like full covered. And I was wandering around right by the pay phone and the one town outlet and looking at it. And there's a group of trees and kind of a little pond behind you, and then the parking lot kind of gently slopes up to the back and so it goes, you know, back to front on a rake. So in other words, you could stand I could stand behind you and see over you at a certain point. And then there was this natural there's this tree that's there, and then kind of a natural entrance. And I saw it. I saw the festival and I walked out, you know, to this one spot and I said, this is a downstairs edge. And the people that were up there with me are like, what are you talking about? The stage? I can no, no, no no stage is going here. And it was so much fun because it was a blank field and to get to color that field in, to get to to to have it come to life out of some goofy thought that I had, and the rest of my team, who who are amazing at getting the crap that's in my head out into making it come true, um, interpreting it and adding to it with their own flourishes. Um is amazing. But that that's you know, Yes, I do light up when I talk about it, like the festival whisperer. Well, you know, there's a lot of people that have done and I'm happy to be involved. I'm happy to be in that fraternity. So to speak of people that I've have done something like that, it's it's it's the last in what I do for a living. It's the last frontier of creation. I don't create anything, you know what I'm saying. It's like I don't players sing, So it's not me. Nobody cares. Um. I live vicariously through my artists. You know. It's their success that you know, makes me happy because that means I'm doing my job right. That's how I get you know, that check mark in that box. But when you get a chance to create something from scratch and then bring your friends over to see it, it is so cool that that is so much fun. Um. And that's you know, horses has has really kind of taken on a life of its own. And and the artists, I call it free range artist. They're not when they come to the festivals. They're not trapped on the bus because I don't have sponsors and v I p s and all the stuff. Backstage, it's their backstage. It's the most boring backstage ever and the like. And they love. Yeah, they can come off the bus, you know, all these festivals that are coming in between seventeen, all the tours and and it's funny when you talk about you and other people, I think you're on the A C M. Seven seven times. The thing is, though, you're downplaying the significance you have and and the comparison I made earlier too. We as movie watchers, we don't always know the director, but when you're a great director, you pretty much carry a big part of the industry there. You may not be the person everybody knows, but you're that to country music. I mean, I would say you're one of the most powerful guys in country music period. No, not on on any point, because that was that was a artist I was happy to listen. I was having it put me in the article, but even I read it and I was like, I can listen about thirty guys that got a lot more power than I do. But you're in that that list at a echelon. Here's I've all. Look, I'm not gonna lie to you, Okay. I always I wanted to be in the game. I wanted to be relevant. Okay, I didn't ever, I didn't know what I wanted to do for a living when I was a kid, other than be a cup That's what I wanted to do. It didn't work, and I had so I had to figure out something to do, and I didn't really know what it was. And I found this lane. And you know I was telling you about being competitive before. Um, that's what what's driven me, um to wherever it is that I am. Um, I'm happy to be in the room. You know, if if if you know you're saying really nice things, there's other people that will say, you know, really bad things. You know that, and that's fine, and that and that's fine, it's it's but for me, I'm happy to be in that room, and I'm happy to have friends, and I'm happy that the artists that I work with are happy with me. Because I think that you know, together we can do more than you know, just live in this six one bubble. You know, I call it the six one five for a reason. You have a unique perspective, because you have you personally have. You don't just sit behind a microphone and say I'm I'm bad on nationwide. You actually leave Nashville, okay, And what we may think in Nashville is not necessarily true in Des Moines. And until you see it happen in Des Moines or Boise or Las Crucious, New Mexico or you know, Portland's Mayan. You know, we can sit here and tell each other how great we are in in and then go out and stiff miserably in the rest of the country. That's not good. That's a bad thing. So being in that room to hopefully affect that conversation by saying, hey, you are a great artist, and you have a lot of potential. But let's not read all these articles yet. Let's keep working, Let's keep going, let's keep earning another fan, Let's grow, Let's grow at a normal pace. You know, the superstar boom artists that takes off and and you know we've had you know, probably in our lifetime. You know a half a dozen of them. There's probably only one that's stuck, you know, and you don't really want that instant success at a personal level. Best concert you've ever been to? Mm hm hm that's tough. I mean I've been to so many. You gotta pick one your own personal heart, like in your heart, boy, I don't know, not even a work one. You went and bought tickets and you went and you just watch this show. I'll tell you the first one that, the first one that comes to mind, UM would have been roughly night two or three, the Police Synchronicity now goes in the Machine tour UM. I remember it because I think, I mean Google, we have Google, Uh, they can look it up. And I think Joan Jet might have opened that show. UM. And I caught a towel that one of the three sting Andy or Um Stewart through UM and I caught it. I caught a stage towel and I was like, oh my god. I was like a junior high school I think at the time. And I caught this stage towel and I remember going home and setting this the hallowed towel, you know which is you know, we see him all the time, and I said it on the little counter when you walked into my house with my folks. And I went downstairs and I probably had some beers with my buddies and and went I left it there and went downstairs, went to sleep. I got up the next day and oh, oh, my towel. I gotta go get my towel. I want to you know, frame my towel or whatever. I walked upstairs and my mom was watching the window and I almost found a heart attack. And she's said there. She's like, what, doll, I'm going, come on, mom, do you don't understand that sting might have touched that towel? She's like, what so that that's the one that that jumps out at my recollection favorite Chicago cub player. If I don't say Rick Sutcliff, he'll kill me. Your friends at Suckliff. We were talking and both Brian and are die hardcore fans, Like for me, you know when Suckcliffe was started from the Indians, I'm on a nerd out for a second. I mean I was. I don't have memories of up then, but I know, you know when he was twelve, you know when the and how that shifted and they and it actually made them in the east because under the central now but back in the day used to the east and the west and you had to win it. And that was it. But that that sucklift trade is what that was a catalyst. That was the catalyst. He went and one with the Cubs that year. And so you and suck Clipper Buds and you guys, it spawned from what it spawned from another Kicks and Ronnie story. Really, I met him Kicks Brooks introduced me to him, Um, and it would have been probably all one or oh two, and um we were at Murphy's bleachers and introduced me to Beth Murphy over there, who's a friend to this day. Um, and I'm telling you, Bobby, I was dumbfounded. I was like, we're gonna go meet who huh at Murphy's. I grew up there. I mean I used to take the train to the ball game and we'd go into Murphy's. You know, it's the it's the one with Harry Carey's face on the for the people who see it on television. It's right behind the center field bleachers. And Murphy's is an institution for a Cubs fan, and especially for a kid who grew up being a Cup fan. Um, when we walked in and I saw Sut for the first time. Now, for those people who don't know this, this guy, he's six ft seven and has red hair, and he's giant. I mean, he's gigantic, and his heart is as giant as he is. I didn't know at all, I was a fanboy. So I'm sitting there trying to, you know, you know, say something coherent. It was Rick Sutcliff Day, the first one, the actual Rick Suckcliff Day's parents were there, you know, everybody, the families there and and I got to tag along and it was the first time I'd ever got to go on the on step onto Wrigley Field was that day. And um, he uh we had a couple of beers, and um, of course, Kicks being kicks, you know, knows that I'm in hog heaven at this point. And long story, really really really short. He uh, Kicks talked to him into throwing batting practice to me at Wrigley and I'm just I'm dying. Well, I got I got to see a few pitches, and um, I let the first one go and I let the second one go, and I'm scared to death. And the third one one top the three six signed and left center field, and Sutty kind of looked at me, but I was kind of peeking out of the cage to see if it was gonna go, and then to to say that the next one was in my ear. He didn't send me a message. I got the message. I was covered in dirt from head to toe. But that's how I met him. And you know, Sutty's he's more, you know, favorite Cubs player as a kid, it was Ernie Banks. You know, it was that team. I was four, okay, and that's a that's a sixty nine team that was awesome, except the Mets were actually but they were better than September. They came in, uh from nine back man nine and a half back in September. What my team would have been the eighty nine Cubs whenever they ended up in the East taking the expose down at the end. M But for me, you know, it was Grace and Samberg and Dunston and even Advance Law and you know it's just I mean, I remember when Girardi was the backup Damon Barry Hill. Well, I'll give you. I'll give you a little piece of Cubs trivia and you can you can go find it. You find it online. You'll get a kick out of it. And talk about Sudy. The first time that I met him was September of n and if you watch the video UM and you see a kid in Pittsburgh jump up and get his hat, that was that was man. Well, it's been a I feel like I've learned more in this hour than I have any other hour that I've spent with because I I enjoyed doing this because I get to actually just ask questions and take in stuff and there's no time restraints. I appreciate you coming into and talking and you know, I think a lot of people listen to this. We really don't know what happened. And I have been a little more of the last couple of years because you know, only we started this two man group that turned into a band that turned into you know, we're playing two thousand seat places forty times a year, and so I've gotten to see a little bit of how it comes together. And they've been open for people like Paisley and you know, Toby, and they've had us out but I don't know even this stuff like that, the stuff that you bring in today, it's amazing to know what goes into this. There's there is a there is an elite group of people that we have in this town. And I mean this sincerely labeled guys and and women. Um, the people in the in the concert promotion side of things, marketing people, um. The god it just the publishing side the I'm trying to think of the of the other thing, the other aspect I was going to say, but it completely blanked on me. Um. There are there's an elite level of people that work in this industry that have such nuanced jobs, niches, you refer to it, real early cogs in the wheel. The artist is the core, okay, and each one of us is a cog in the wheel. And if one of us breaks, if we don't get the best songs, if we don't have the best possible band, if we don't have the best possible label, support whatever that you know, in in all of the nuances that come in that the artist is going to suffer. So it's about people working as a team and and and not living in silos. And we in Nashville have an amazing wealth of brilliant people that can do this stuff, that come up with incredible ideas for artists, um on their behalf, because we we believe in these people that we call artists. Um, they're a different breed. That's like, you know, they've got it. We don't have it. I don't have it. I'm clear that I don't have it. I can see it though, and it's so much fun. I'm glad that that you had me over here. And if it didn't put everybody to sleep the boring business side, um, you know, you know, I hope that some people get some stuff out of it because it's it's it's interesting. Well. Of the tours again, of the festivals, I mean this year Watershed, Faster Horses, leg Shake, Um, the Vegas one Aute, I mean those are that we talked about to get a chance to check them out. And then I mean, you have so many artists and just I mean we'd be here for another thirty minutes again about talking about that. But Brian really good to have your Brian at Live Nation and he's just the king of about promoting shows that that's what we call them, the king dangling. Anytime there's an award Show King Dangling Bryan's are Acceptable Award. He's like, thank you and he he just kind of gets out everybody's way. It's kind of my style too. That's gonna thank you very much, appreciate that. We were all right. Thank you very much everyone, and we will see you next time. And on Twitter, yeah, what are your boc BOC country, BOC country. Here we go. All right, thank you and we'll see you next time. Guys,