End of an Era: Brian Snitker Retires as Atlanta Braves Manager

00:00:24
Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Hammer Territory Podcast. My name is Sean Coleman. Hope, wherever you are and wherever you are listening, you are having a great week so far. Yes, I'll be honest, it is a bit disappointed and depressing to see playoff baseball and how awesome playoff baseball has been so far. It's not so much fun to see it without the Atlanta Braves. But that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that there's not things that are worth talking about. And we finally got the news many of us had been waiting to hear, a very significant first domino to fall for the Braves off season in many more ways than one, and we are here to break it all for you all the Hammer Territory Podcast. And you know that it is a special podcast when we have the three man show here with you. Scott Coleman and Steven Tolbert are here with me. Scott, good as always to talk with you, sir. I hope you've been well. Glad to talk some Braves baseball with you.

00:01:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Sean, And this was a it was a big day for the Atlanta Braves franchise because if you think about I mean Bobby Cox, Freddy Gonzalez, Brian Snicker, and those are the only men to manage the Braves for the past thirty plus years at this point, and I truly didn't know what the decision was going to be today. We had an inkling that all season long, our feeling was that Brian Snicker this was his last year that he was going to retire. But as we got deeper and deeper and deeper into the regular season and there was no announcement of any kind, and you start reading the quotes from people around the team and it was like, you know, maybe they we are going to bring snit back for one more year. Of course, if folks did not hear the news already, Brian Sticker is officially no longer the Braves manager. He is not retiring, He is going to transition into a front office role. But I mean, Stephen, what was your big takeaway today? Because obviously, the million dollar question for weeks at this point, I mean, hell months, was will Brian Snicker be back in twenty twenty six And now we know definitively the Braves are going.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: To have a new manager.

00:02:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, so obviously this is news we've been waiting on and you know, I kind of blamed Snitt a little bit over the last like three or four weeks for kind of throwing a wrench into what we thought was happening. Like all season long. It really wasn't even that much of a conversation. We would mention it every once in a while, but the assumption was just he was going to retire at the end of the year. Everybody we talked to on the record, off the record, behind the scenes, no one had Snit coming back next year. Everyone just assumed he was retiring. And then then like the last month and Brad and I remember this was when this was when you were gone, Scott, he actually made a comment like, yeah, we've got unfinished business. It was so jarringly different than what we had heard all season that Brad and I actually led a show for like thirty minutes talking about this because it it just like turned like a complete one eighty of like, no, we've got unfinished business. I don't like this being the last taste in my mouth of being a manager, Like, you know, we want to get back and do this thing right. And it really felt like, Okay, well maybe they have flipped. And then we had to go through the whole like he's not actually under contract, it might not be up to him and we we'll get into those that stuff as we go here tonight. So yeah, it was it was finality in a weird way because it was exactly what we thought was gonna happen. But the road we took to get there was a bit circuitous, and I think Snit was having some cold feet, quite honestly. I think he talked about that a lot in his press conference about how he had to get away for a couple of days to really decide, like this is what I want to do. While he was in it, he he really couldn't decide. And so we finally have It's just finality we need now we know, we know he's done as manager. The Braids are gonna have a new manager. You know, in the last eight years they've had more stadiums than managers. They've you know, they've they they have been incredibly consistent at that spot, like Scott just said, for the last thirty years, there's been three guys. So it is going to be a wild change. It's going to be an interesting search. But the first half of the show we're gonna spend talking about snit. Snitt deserves some flowers here, and we're gonna spend a chunk of tonight's show talking about him, and then the second half of the show will do some options they have going forward.

00:04:40
Speaker 1: And I think that it's important to establish that. I think, you know, I know, Scott, you and Brad talked about it last night that you know, the handling of this probably could have been better, you know, definitely could have as time went on, you know, I know Snip probably probably from all parties involved, you know, there there probably was you know, some back and forth on what made the most sense. But at the end the day, the right decision was made, you know, for a Snicker as well as the Braves organization, because the timing was right. This is the time, was the time for us to go in a different direction. Brian Snicker's time as Braise manager had run its course. That I think is established and that's none But that doesn't mean that just because it run its course doesn't mean that. Yes, there were struggles more towards the end, but the success far outweighed the struggles. And I want to you know, go beyond just you know, just talking about the fact that the Braves have had only three managers over the past thirty plus years. I think that it's not far fetched. I don't think it's wrong to say Brian Snicker is arguably the second most impactful non player on this Braves organization over the past century. Like I think that, or at least the time in Atlanta, I think that that's fair to say second most wins him and him and Cock Bobby Cox are the only ones to lead us to the World Series. But I think also what really needs to be highlighted is I know that Brian Snicker, he's been with the organization for fifty years, only the last fifth of that has been his manager of the Braves. We're talking about more than half of his managerial career with the Braves was in the minor leagues. When Bobby Cox and all the players were having their success in the majors, Brian Snicker was playing a pivotal role in helping groom our young players to keep that streak alive in the miners. That's how important of a role Brian Snicker has played in this organization now for five decades. And there's more than I want to say, And it will come back around to me. But I just want to want to make that point, is that we're not just talking about Brian Sticker's impact being right now at the major league level. We're talking about the fact that Brian Sticker played a major role in that nineties and two thousands run helping to continue those channels of young successful players coming up by what he did for them in the miners.

00:06:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, you think about just the sheer number of players that had Brian Snicker as their coach or as their manager over the decades. I mean it's hundreds. Hell, it's probably thousands at this point, and that is such a rare thing to be able to say. And everything about Brian Stetker becoming a World Series winning manager was unconventional and unlikely. I mean, this guy was a minor league lifer finally got a chance to go home up to the majors and be a coach, but never anywhere, frankly, never anywhere near the manager's job. And truthfully, there's only thirty big league manager jobs, but the Atlanta Braves in early twenty sixteen was about as bad of a job as there was in the majors. And maybe at the time the front office it was kind of like throwing Snit a bone. You know, he was a professional. You know he was going to command the clubhouse. But I mean, dear god, there was zero talent on that roster when Snitt came up. And it's I think it speaks volumes to Brian Snitker, his character and the man he is that even in a year where the Braves were just got awful, lost one hundred games, no prayer, we're still a while away from being able to contend that. When Snit's interim deal was up, all the players campaigned for Brian Sticker to become the full time manager, and he was rewarded with six straight divisions, a World Series championship, seven playoff appearances. I mean, it was kind of a storybook Disney type of story for Snit and he deserves it, and I'm glad that he can now spend more time with his family and get away from the game. I'm also glad that he's still going to be around the organization because does he have some some holes as a manager, as an in game tactician, sure, we talked about him on this podcast for years, but he deserves everything that's come in his way, and just a special story quite honestly.

00:08:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's so if you guys remember, so the Braves fired Freddie Gonzalez in May of twenty sixteen, it was like the like May fifteenth or something like that. They also at the time fired his bench coach. I don't know if you guys remember that. I think it was like Carlos Tosco was his name. He fired the bench They fired the bench coach at the exact same time that they fired Freddy Gonzalez. And that's notable because oftentimes the bench coach is the guy that you would turn to for an interim job. If you've just fired the manager, you don't want to do a full search in season. You kind of turn to the bench coach, let him do the rest of the year, and then you hire your new guy. So I was just thinking about it today, like what if they hadn't fired the bench coach at the same time, Like Snip might have never gotten the interim job. And we know for a fact that the only reason he got the full time job was because the players fell in love with him while he was the interim manager. So it is funny to think back, like if they had just fired Freddy Gonzalez and not and not the bench coach at the time. Like how different Braves history could be. And that's you know, Snit basically getting a four month job and just winning over the entire clubhouse. It's pretty indicative of just who Snit is. Like, yeah, because he was never a great tactician as a manager, he was never like it was never his strong suit.

00:10:10
Speaker 1: So how does a.

00:10:10
Speaker 3: Guy like that keep this job and excel at this job for a decade and, like Sean said, even longer if you count his minor league managerial stints. It's because he he was beloved, beloved by player he had. He gained so much, he garnered so much respects in that clubhouse because he was extremely honest. He was extremely fair. He was very single minded in that we're just trying to win. I'm just trying to win. And every day he could just say I'm just trying to win. Did I agree with all the stuff he did in efforts to win games, Absolutely not, And we spent a lot of time on this podcast loudly disagreeing with things that he did. But he can always look players in the eye and say, I'm just trying to win. That's why I made the decision I made, and they would have to respect it. He played, He's been in the organization for fifty years. You had no choice but to just have supreme respect for the guy. And that's how you ma. That's how you manage a clubhouse for seven eight months a year without the whole thing coming off the rails. Is the entire clubhouse respects you. It is the most important part of managing by far. There's no way to quantify it. There's no way to measure it, but far and away, the most important part of this job is having the respect of everybody in that clubhouse so that you can keep it on the rails when times get tough over a six month season. And that's what he was great at. That's what I'll remember him for. I'm not gonna remember the mind numbing bullpen decisions or leaving Bryce Elder. I will remember leaving Bryce Elder in a playoff game. But besides that, I will remember the fact that this man he just he gained so much respect from his players, and that's how he accomplished what he accomplished. And it's a good lesson. Looking forward, as we talk about the new manager, we'll do that at the end of the show, Like, what the most important qualities are of a manager is do you have the respect of that clubhouse? Because if you do, you can accomplish a lot, and if you don't, you can accomplish nothing. And he had ultimate respect from his players, and that's kind of his legacy.

00:12:14
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I think the best compliment that can be offered to a leader of people, whether it be a manager or boss whomever, is if outside sources and the people that you're leading themselves, if an assessment of the group that you're leading is that that group wants to be at their best for the person that's leading them consistently, that right there shows how good of a leader that leader is. Steven, you said what I had been. I'll be honest with you. On my ride home, I have about a forty five minute ride home for my day job each day, and I was trying to put together the words, and Steven you said it more beautifully than I could have. But that's the best way that I could have summed it up is that Brian Snicker, you can honestly say his players, year in and year out, wanted to be at their best for him because of the person that he was, because so many people out of obligation, act like they care, act like they're loyal, so on and so forth. With Brian Snicker, you could clearly tell it was sincere. And that's what made him so effective with his honesty, because anytime he was honest with one of his players, they knew that he was being honest to try to make them better and because he wanted to win, and that's what matters. And to Stevens's point about that being, you know, for all the areas where you know Snicker could have improved or struggled, the one strength that he had of relating to people because of how genuine he was, that by far was more impactful than any of his struggles. Because when you work with as talented of rosters as he did, getting those talents to want to perform at their best for you is what will allow for you to be consistent, is what will allow for continuity, and that really stands out. So could not agree with steven more similar to how Bobby Cox was being a leader of men, being a player's coach, being someone that can relate to players that players wanted to play for, That's what stands out as the reason why Brian Snicker was so successful, and isn't it funny that we're talking about this three decades later? Was what was successful for Cox back in the nineties has been what's been successful for Snicker in the twenty twenties. It doesn't change. The better you relate to the players that you lead, the more likely you're going to be able to have success, and he certainly had that. The other thing that I'll say to that is this is that I think that it's fun to also, you know, Scott, you talked about the fact that when he was an interim coach, people spoke up for him, wanting him to get the main managerial role as time went on. I think it also says a lot to snip that two of the players who talked about him wanting to retain his job in next year are Chris Sale, who was with him for all of two years, and Drake Baldwin, who's been a rookie this year. That goes to show that it doesn't matter how long you were with Snith. That's how I'm hackful it is and I think that it's fun to to end this segment on discussing Snit and remembering him given a story or a moment that really stood out to you during his time. For me, guys, what stood out was really the first opportunity where we as Brave's Country realize just how important this roster meant to Snicker, and that was when he went out when Ronald Acuna Junior got hit by Jose Rania in the game against the Marlins. Snicker's immediate response going out there and acting out of character, immediately going out there and showing I am not going to take this you going after one of my players. That really let us know this is kind of like a father figure. Brian Snicker always saw this roster as kind of his kids. That lets you know how much he care about the roster. That got Brave's Country behind Snicker if they already weren't. That was kind of the you know, this guy really is the perfect leader for us to be where we want to get. That was the moment this stood out for me.

00:15:53
Speaker 2: Well, and not only that moment, because that moment did come to mind Sean, but after the game when he was meeting with the media, Snid got emotional talking about the players and said those are my kids and had to fight back tears and got choked up, and I thought that really spoke to just the character of Snid and just how much he genuinely cared. And that was something he said today in his press conference with when the players. There were about a dozen current Braves there and he said, you know this, being with these guys was the greatest part of my job, and just the camaraderie being in that clubhouse, being in the dugout for seven months. I mean, these guys see each other more than they see their their wives, their girlfriends, their kids. I mean that is their family for seven months out of the year, sometimes eight if you make a deep run into the playoffs. The other moment too, that just comes to mind was just the absolute elation that was on Snith's face when they won the World Series in the in the dugout, getting dogpiled by Walt Weiss and Eric Young and Ron Washington and then getting to host that trophy. It's just, I mean, that's what it's all about. And again it's just kind of a storybook ending for a guy who paid all of his dues. So many opportunities I'm sure came in Snit's heead where he's like you know what, I just don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do the bus rides in the minor leagues. I you know, I haven't gotten my chance. I'm done. He's stuck with it, and at the end of the day, he got to do something that's pretty damn cool. Won a ton of baseball games, won a World Series, I mean, a pretty special baseball career.

00:17:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, and mine's not a moment mine. It is along the line the lines of what Scott just said. But this dude managed in the minors, in the minor leagues for years and years and years, where you get zero recognition, you get very little money, you get I mean like it is a you have to love baseball and you have to love the organization you're with to just sit in Triple A or Double A and ride the bus and watch all your best players leave after half a year. And you know all the nonsense that minor league. You know, you hear a lot about minor league players and all the stuff they have to put up with. We don't ever talk about the minor league coaches and what they have to put up with with no hope of being called up, Like they're there for the whole year and snitth did this for I mean forever, and I know he was the third base coach for a little while for Bobby, but he was a massive part of the Braves minor league system for decades, and you know, again to get his shot like that and to take advantage of it to the point where Alex. When Alex came in in twenty seventeen, you know, people remember John Coppola had the big scandal at the end of twenty seventeen, resigned Braves bring in Alex Adopolis. Everybody. Everybody thought he was going to hire his own manager, because that's what you do when you go to a new job, you hire your own guy. The Braves had just had, you know, the Brave had given Snit the full time job in twenty seventeen, but had not made any guarantees for anything. Obviously, with a new front office, nobody would have blamed Alex for hiring his own manager. And Alex talked about it today. He saw how much the players respected Snit and he was like, I don't need another I don't I have exactly I can win with a guy who's disrespected. Is he the best tactician?

00:19:26
Speaker 2: No?

00:19:26
Speaker 3: Is he the best bullpen guy. No, but I can win with a guy disrespected. And you know, listen to him talk today about how it's all about the players. You know, somebody asked him snit. You know, the fans would have loved to give you, like a one month sendoff if you had just announced this last month, and he was like, yeah, that was my call. I just didn't want to do it. It was all about the players. I just did not want to do it. You can blame me because you didn't get to do that, but I didn't want to do it. It's he is a thousand percent about the players, and I love that. And that's exactly what you need as a manager. You have to be you have to take your ego entirely out of it. And that's another thing that I'll remember is that he had to He had to drop his ego from his entire persona for years living in the miners, I mean, you're just you're a You're invisible, You're a ghost. Only people that know about you are are people deep in the organization and no one else. And that means you you're you are not at all prideful. You were you were literally one hundred percent about the team, about the organization, and that's the same attitude he carried too. He carried once he got the big job, and that's why players love him so much, and that's why I'll miss him. I will miss Snit. I'm I'm com I don't know how you feel, Scott. I'm completely okay with this decision. I don't know if it was his decision or the bravest decision, but I'm I'm okay with moving on. I think it's the right time. But Snet was a great manager and there's gonna be a lot of people who hated Snit. I'm just telling you, the grass is not always greener with a new guy. And I hope people appreciate what they just have for the last decade, the stability they just had for the last decade, the success they just had for the last decade, because it's not a given and there's plenty of managers who coming to that job and they get eaten alive by the pressure of having to manage a clubhouse of that many rich personalities for that long, and he did it marvelously. Hats off to you, Snit. Enjoy your retirement. I'm fine with the move. But I'm gonna miss Brian Snick.

00:21:25
Speaker 2: Yeah I will too. I mean, just a great man, a really good manager. I think we've talked about just the respect that he commanded from twenty six millionaires seven months at a time and kept the team together. There was very, very rarely any kind of off field drama with the Braves. You know, you're right, the grass is not always greener. I do think this was probably time to move on from Snit. It just feels like it's the right time. But truthfully, boys, if they announced this morning that Snit was coming back for one more and it was gonna be one final ride, I would not have come on this podcast like banging my fists on the table screaming what they're doing. Because there were legitimate reasons to potentially bring Snit back. And now we go into a new era of Braves baseball.

00:22:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll say, and Brett, I'll make this point for Brad because he's not here. I don't the process was weird, I have I didn't understand the process. They used the whole lame duck thing this year. I didn't love that. I thought there was a better way to handle it. I would have loved if they had been able to convince him to let fans kind of appreciate him for a month. I do think there were better ways to handle it, but where we ended up I think is fine. Obviously, who they get next is gonna be a big question. But Brian Snicker, go enjoy retirement. You got a new truck. I love the fact that they gave him a new truck. They gave him an all paid expenses trip to Hawaii. I made the joke on Twitter's like he won the Prices Right showcase, Like just a awesome, awesome career, great job, hats off, go enjoy retirement. And obviously he's still taking the job in the front office. Will still see him around. You mentioned today as the exact same job that Bobby Cox had when he moved on to the front office, So that's pretty cool. So you'll still see him around. But as far as manager, no more manager. Great jobs.

00:23:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's just and of course you know he's going more than deserving. He will be inducted into the Braves Franchise Hall of Fame next year as well, but just next year also will be the fiftieth year that he's with the Braves organization. I mean since nineteen seventy six. I mean Snicker started with the Braves organization ten years after they moved to Atlanta. That's how long he's been with the organization. If you've been with an organization for fifty years, you've done two things. You've done things the right way, and you've done them in a highly successful manner. And I think that that's a great way to describe by Brian Snicker. Short and sweet, thank you, Brian Snicker, best of look to you, and a salute to you on a great career as Braves manager. But of course, as they say, the show goes on, and we've got plenty to discuss when it comes to what the new era, which we're hoping will very much be like the Snicker era of the Braves. What will the new Braves era look like with a new voice at the helm of the roster. We'll discuss that in just a moment after a word from our partners.

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00:25:26
Speaker 1: So, guys, I think it's important to kind of, you know, set the stage on This is a rather unique setup when it comes to an organization looking for a new leader for their roster. And what I mean by that is this is that, yes, the Braves are not in the playoffs, they had a losing record, they have high draft odds next year. A lot of those characteristics do you look at, you know, when you think, Okay, this team's kind of maybe entering a rebuild mode. That's not the case at all. This is a team with the roster that still feels it's in its contention window and they expect to be a contender next year. So with that in mind, there's some different dynamics about this potential search, about finding that next guy to lead the roster that are here for the Braves, that make this a bit unique, that are not always there, you know when it comes to teams rebuilding. So it's about the process, it's about the names, but at the end of the day, it's keeping that focus on the fact we want to win now, and we want to win now at a big time level. So with that in mind, Stephen, let's talk about that process. Let's talk about is this a short process, is this a long drawn out process? What about the current set up with the current coaches beyond manager? What does this process look like in your mind before we get into some of the names that could potentially be discussed.

00:26:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, so obviously, now that it's you know, we know that there's going to be a new manager, you start putting the calls out right. So we'll get into the names. But the first thing I'll is gonna have to do. He's gonna have to figure out the contract status of all the coaches on the staff because you know, obviously everybody was concentrating on snit. But now that you're gonna have a new manager, you know, if Walt Weiss, for instance, doesn't get this job, he might want to move somewhere else. Cranits might want to move some routs, they might not want to work with a new manager. You do this knowing very well that you might have to replace most of not all, of your staff, which is why teams do it so early. You know, there's a reason that the day after the season Monday morning, you saw so many of these decisions coming down. There was a reason that Brad was like, I can't believe they haven't done anything, and it's you know, Tuesday night. It's because there is an urgency to this process because you're not only potentially replacing your manager, you are potentially replacing your entire coaching staff if other guys move on. Now, those guys have contracts too, and we're not privy to that information, but there's just the chance that they're gonna have to you know, they're gonna have to hire more than just a manager. So in baseball you do have to you know, we uh. One thing we talked about offline today was, you know, in the NFL, there's the Rooney rule about how many guys you need to interview, you know, minority candidates you need to interview. Baseball does have something similar. It's not exactly the same, doesn't work exactly the same. But this can't just be like Alex picks up the phone, calls David Ross and says, hey, I want you to be my new manager, and like we're not gonna get an announcement tomorrow on who the new manager is. This is gonna be a process they do set up interviews. They'll set up a bunch of interviews. I'm guessing it'll I think it'll be an exhaustive search, and it's not just gonna be an exhaustive search just for appearent's sake. I think Alex wants to do an exhaustive search. I know Brad Scott talked about this on their show on Sunday, like he hasn't had to do this with the Braves yet, he hasn't had to pick a manager. The Braves have not gone through one of these exhaustive searches in a long time, and so I think they're gonna. I think they're gonna turn over a bunch of different leaves, a bunch of different rocks. I think they're gonna interview some maybe out of the box candidates. I know deal Be brought up some interesting names that we'll get to. But I do think this will be a little bit of a process, which is why it was so important to go ahead and start it because it could take a while, and again you might have to add pitching coach, hitting coach. There was already questions about Tim Hiers. Anyways, you know bench coach. What does wat Wise do? This is the beginning of this process. It is not the end.

00:29:21
Speaker 2: And I will say the good news is this Braves job, I have to imagine is very attractive to the eyes of basically everybody in baseball. Yeah, I mean might honestly be a fun segment of like what are the top five managerial jobs when you consider all factors. But for this Braves team, I know they had a down year this past season, but a very talented roster. I mean you, guys, you can turn on a playoff game right now and you look at the lineup and you look at some of the guys making starts and it's like, man live if the Braves if a few things went differently, the Braves have like more talent on their rosters than a lot of these playoff teams do. Of course, they have to perform like they're supposed to perform, but it is a organization of stability. I would imagine that alex Enthopolis is viewed as a good boss to work for. Ownership, for better or worse, is not overly hands on. Even though the Braves were cheap last offseason, they were still I believe seventh in payroll this last year. So this is not a situation where like the Baltimore Orioles job might be up, like the cheap asses who run the Orioles or the Marlins, Like, how are you gonna draw a good candidate to manage the Marlins with a fifty million dollars payroll? So good roster, talented place, a lot of guys in their prime and organization of stability, good leadership, presumably money to spend this offseason. There's a lot of things working in the braves favor and they should have a nice group of candidates to pick from because they're not going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel begging for someone to take the job.

00:31:02
Speaker 3: Go ahead, and Steve Well, I was gonna say, it's also an iconic franchise, like the brands are just an iconic brand and a massive fan base. Being the manager of the of the Atlanta Braves is a big deal in this sport. And I know we don't always think about the Braves in those terms because you know, the Yankees and the Dodgers and like, these massive, massive payroll teams get a lot of the headlines. But the Braves are a massive brand in the sport. Atlanta is one of the biggest markets in the country. The fan base is national because of TBS superstition. Days like, it is a big deal to be the manager of this organization. And that is one what Scott is talking about, why other people are going to be interest So many other people are gonna be interested in the job. And two, if you're Alex, why you have to do an exhaustive search because you you don't you can't get this wrong. It's it's even though manager is not the same as you know, head coach or coach, you know, coach in the NBA, coach in the NFL. You don't want to get this wrong. So this is going to be a I think this is going to be a process. But Scott is one hundred percent right. There will be tons of people, tons of people interested in this job.

00:32:09
Speaker 1: Last week I had the pleasure of interviewing, you know, former Brave and Major League outfielder Kevin Plaar, And Kevin Plaar was here for literally a year, and he came back to the same thing for nearly every question that I asked him. There's not really any specific secret sauce or anything like that that the Braves do differently from other organizations. There's just so much goodness in the Braves organization, good people no matter where you go from the front office to Snicker to the clubhouse, all those things exist. And yes, making advantagerial change is changing a critical component. But that is one thing that way as we get into the names that I think also needs to be addressed with as much good as there is with the Brave's organization, talent, continuity, stability, what have you, it's time for a change, you know, a strength of theirs two years ago, continuity was a strength. There's two years ago when we were successful, but it's now time to where there's a change, and it makes sense that a new voice probably comes in and maybe changes around how things are done a bit, keeping the good things that are there, but changing up areas where they can improve. And I definitely think that that's something Alex is going to put value on. What about my potential new hire, how does he do things differently that could be more effective that over the past couple of years have kind of run stale, and so I think that that's really going to be a focus of Alex's as well. And Scott, let's get into it, you know, let's look at some of these names. We'll go through some names, kind of mention as to why they make sense, and then after that we'll kind of start weeding through the names as to what really makes sense for Alex to value to come to maybe you know two or three who really stand out as being the best potential candidates for the job.

00:33:49
Speaker 2: So that was like the big question today of course, was Okay, who are the candidates for this job? And I think there are some obvious ones, and we're going to talk about them one moment, and then I'm sure Alex is going to interview players that not a soul on Earth writes about, talks about, thinks about. That's just the way it is. Alex knows people, He's been around the game for twenty five years professionally, He's going to have people in mind that that none of us are going.

00:34:15
Speaker 3: To come up with.

00:34:16
Speaker 2: But because of that, we kind of sleuthed around today and tried to find a handful of possibilities. Let's just go through them and then I mean, Steven, if you want to pick a couple or even just one at a time, but I think probably the most let's go internal first. Walt Weiss, the current Braves bench coach, the right hand man for Brian Snicker. Almost certainly Walt Weiss is going.

00:34:38
Speaker 5: To get an interview.

00:34:41
Speaker 2: David Ross is a name that maybe was said the most today. David Ross had a piece with Ken Rosenthal and the athletic that Ross is looking to manage. Kind of got a rough deal with the Cubs when they brought in Craig Counsel. He sat through a lot of bad baseball and then the Cubs started getting better and they kicked David Ross out's so former player has managerial experience in a big market in a similar type of high profile job. Skip Schumacher's name is very hot, although we will say Skip Schumacher is currently a heavy lean to take the Rangers open vacancy, but I'm guessing Alex will do his due diligence. Eric Young is of course has ties to the Braves former first base coach and I believe and has been around the game. Mark de Rosa is currently with MLB Network has managed Team USA for my whole life, guys, I feel like Mark Durosa has been said as a possible managerial candidate for the Braves. We will see. And lastly, a name that David O'Brien of the athletic mentioned was Ryan Flaherty, who is the current Cubs bench coach and was a utility infielder for the Braves a few years ago. So again David Ross, Skip Schumacher, Eric young sor Mark de Rosa, Walt White, and Ryan Flaherty. There are going to be more, but I guess of that group, Steven, I mean, do any of those names really kind of stick out in your mind?

00:36:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, So let's go through the real quick. So Walt Weiss, So obviously Walt's been the Braves bench coach. I don't know if people know this, but like Walt Weiss has been there for like nine years, like he's he came almost immediately, and anytime you've been the bench coach for that long. And I was talking about this earlier when they fired Freddigan Zaliz and the bench coach, like the bench coaches, like the automatic guy who's gonna get looked at what Weiss has managed before, he was the Rockies manager, he played in the Majors, obviously played for the Braves. Like it. It checks a lot of boxes that are just natural. Now there are a lot of people who are gonna say if you're making a change from Brian Snitker, maybe don't go higher his bench coach because it's just gonna be Brian Snitker again. And that's a fair argument, and I would probably make that argument. But wal Weiss's name is gonna come up, and rightfully so he should. He at the very least needs an interview. You gotta be respectful and give it. Even if you don't want to hire him, you got to give him an interview. David Ross. Now this is if I if I had to set betting lines, if I just had a betting line for the search, this is the guy I'm putting at the heavy favorite. So obviously David Ross former catcher a lot. You know, he's kind of the like out of Central Casting, former catcher that turns MLB manager. It's a very sought after, kind of like archetype of you know, catchers are often sought you know, kind of considered the smartest guys on the field, the guys that have to know everything. Then then I the you know, the guys who are going to be managers one day, and David Ross already has managerial experience, and managerial experience is a big deal, and I don't know that the Braves. Maybe you guys have a different opinion. I don't know that the Braves are gonna go hire somebody for this job who's never managed at the major league level before. They could. They could get somebody with some potential they like, but that's a that's a all task, and anybody that's got managerial experience, like David Ross does. He obviously was with the Cubs, I'm gonna put above anybody that does it. So like Weiss and David Ross are two names. Skip Schumacher, like Scott just said, was with the Marlins, had a successful year. A lot of people think he got a raw deal in Miami as well, just like Ros did in Chicago. Like you know, Scott said, he's already in Texas. Texas also has an opening. I would be very surprised if he's not the next manager of the Rangers. I think they got him in that job to be Boche's heir apparent because obviously bo She is older than Snit, so he wasn't not going to be around for long. I'm guessing Schumacher is going to be the next guy in Texas. Ryan Flaherty is interesting. He's never managed, but he has been on a coaching staff, and that's the next best thing. If you've never managed, you know, at least you've been around a clubhouse for six months. You see what it takes. Like, I think you should, at that very least have been a coach on a major league staff to be considered for this job. Even if you're not a manager, I think you should at least have been a coach. I'll say this, and I'll let Scott jump back in here. One thing I haven't seen, and if, like if Steven Tolbert was running the search and I got to just imprint the thing that I value the most. I've already said experience. The next thing I would do, honestly is, I'm not sure I would hire a coach in twenty twenty five that can't speak English and Spanish. I think I would want a bilingual head. There's just so many Latin players in baseball. It just it's the language barrier thing is a big deal, especially when you've got to be around people for six or seven months and having guys who can speak both English and Spanish. Now I get guys on staffs, you know, every staff has a guy who can speak Spanish. But I would have a hard time if it was me running, you know, if I was running a search hiring a guy who doesn't speak both English and Spanish. But there's not a lot of those. I mean, you know that you limit your poll even more if you do that, So you know, I could see any one of these guys get in. I could see somebody we haven't talked about that we will never talk about interviewing and getting it. It is going to be fascinating. But if I'm setting betting lines today, David Ross is who I'm going with.

00:40:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would tend to agree. I'm fascinated to hear what names we're going to hear in the next couple of weeks, what gets leaked, what doesn't. Of course, the Braves run a very tight tight ship, so I will say I agree wholeheartedly with having a bilingual manager, or at least someone who can really connect with the Latin players. The other thing too, which I think is a high priority, and they don't have to be a computer science major who can stare at a spreadsheet for nine hours and break it all down, but someone who is at least embracing of modern analytics, who understands bullpen leverage. Who understands how to manage a pitching staff come October? That's important and I'm sure of all the names, that's going to be something that gets brought up in the interview process. It's going to be a strength for some I don't think it needs to be the strength like I don't think Alex and thoppless. As much as he talks about the importance of a strong clubhouse and everybody getting along and being with each other every single day for one hundred and ninety days out of the year, I don't think Alex is going to overlook the kind of personal side of the game. But I do think if we can have Alex with Trucierm on the show tonight, he would say that somebody who is at least open and embracing of analytics and how the modern baseball game is played is something that needs to be included. Otherwise it's going to feel like we're kind of getting left in the dark a little bit.

00:41:40
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I.

00:41:43
Speaker 3: That's one hundred percent true. Would I would also say that the thing that made the thing that made Snicker so good was that he could accomplish what he accomplished in spite of that. And there is kind of this like do you want the traditional manager that's old school, but as the respect of the players, do you want the new school manager? You know who? Was it capler with the Phillyler? Yeah, you know it kind of it can It can also go off the rails if you're not careful. It's such a delicate thing. I'm glad I'm not out. I'm glad I'm not the one has to make this call because like merging the old school, like traditions and like respect and the new school, it's a tough it's a tough needle to threat. And I agree with you though, this was that was Brian's biggest blind spot and it would be nice to finally feel that kind of that gaping hole that's been in the organization the last decade.

00:42:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And and it's going to become even more important now for those for that attention to detail and that ability to be knowledgeable about, you know, the strategic points of the job of where to add value in the moment in games, how to be on top of that non stop adding value that way, It's going to become even more important as we try to piece together this roster, a roster right now that has a bit more uncertainty about it than it did a few years ago. But we're gonna dive a little bit more into these names. In just a moment after another word from our.

00:43:12
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00:43:20
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00:43:22
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00:43:40
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00:43:41
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00:43:47
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00:44:16
Speaker 1: So, guys, you know, we talk about some of the names that we've mentioned, and I think that all of those names that we've heard, you know, mentioned, you know, through different reports and things like to that today each makes sense in their own right. I agree David Ross stands out as a sensible name. I would put him and what weiss probably in that upper tier above others. I also want to point out that, you know, some other names were thrown out there, maybe from a fan speculation or you know, just you know, outside the box, if you will, names that I just I don't necessarily think probably make the most sense for the Braves. I know that, you know, for instance, of Travis Darnaut, you know, is someone that that that people have mentioned. It should be mentioned, of course that he's still under contract plane wise when it comes to the Angels, But I do want to point out that I know so that some other organizations have even had success going to get former players who did not have any managerial experience really at any level before they took over the job for an organization. I don't think that makes sense for the Braves, just like I don't think, for instance, Tony Vautello from the University of Tennessee goballs, but who comes from the University of Tennessee. I don't think that that's someone that really makes sense for the Braves because you're not looking to bring in someone to just completely change the culture and bring needed energy to the organization to try to help build a successful restart or rebuild. That's not the case here. That's why when we talk about managerial experience or coaching experience, a proving track record I think is a really big trait that you want in the manager of the next Braves. But we talk so much about who the Braves are going to hire, who's going to be in that spot. And yes, again it's the right time to make a change in that spot. But Scott will start with you and Stephen gets your opinion on this as well. What about the remaining of the coaching staff. Steven, I know that you talk about the fact that we may have to see a big part of that coaching staff replaced, but there's also reason to want some of that continuity to remain. Rich Kranitz has consistently gotten more than expected from this pitching staff, even this year with you know, having to put together a makeshift rotation and bullpen at times, Tim Hyers, he implemented needed areas of improvement for this lineup as the season went along. I think that it would be a more of a good thing than a bad thing to retain both those guys. But how big of a part does that play in your overall expectation to retaining what seems to be a pretty good setup coaching wise, a pretty good successful setup when it comes to the supporting staff to a manager.

00:46:51
Speaker 2: So I think for me, the priority is keeping Rick Kranitz around. If Kranits is down to keep going, I'm all for it. Braves pitching has been really good, and they've developed young pitching well. That one to me is kind of a no brainer. If Kranti is in, and I will say Grantitis is getting a little bit older. He also had a family issue A couple of years ago that kept him away. Don't want to speculate on that stuff, but if Granitis is in, I am in for twenty twenty six. Tim Hires man alive. I mean, it was so bad in the first half. The Braves did hit better as the season went along. Part of me says, it's kind of like an offensive coordinator in football. If you change him every year, you're kind of starting back at zero. But if the results aren't what you want, it's kind of an easier decision to make. I could probably be talked either way on Tim Hires, but if they say we're gonna move on, I would not lose sleep over it by any means. And then I mean the rest of the coaching staff. I'd love to have Eddie Perez around just for the vibes. Eddie's, of course a Brave's life or in a legend. We'll see what he ultimately wants to do. But that's I mean, for the coaching staff, that's kind of it. It's keep Kranitz if he's in, we'll see what they ultimately do with Hires. And if Eddie Perez wants to come back, great, but you know Tom Goodwin at first base, whatever, Freddy Gonzalez at third base. It's still funny that they had to make that change mid season because it was so bad and Freddy was good at third base. So maybe the new manager, whoever it is, will be down to have. Oh god, surely they wouldn't even think about Freddy Gonzalez for two seconds, right right, the other name and then I'll throw it to you, Stephen. Are we all in agreement that we want no part of Mark de Rosa?

00:48:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was gonna be my So so Mark has zero manager experience outside of the WBC. And I don't count the WBC because it's a it's a glorified All Star team. You're together for like three weeks if you deal with none of the stuff that real managers have to deal with. The whole thing is can you keep a team together over six months? And there's just no way to recreate that over three weeks with what is basically an All Star team, So I don't I don't count that at all. He's also not been a coat like, he's not even been on like a coaching staff. He's also said some pretty crazy things about the Braves the last couple of years. He's he's on MLB Network, they do segments that they've got to get clicks and engagements, and I understand, like he probably embellishes some stuff to get reaction, but like he came out and said like the Braves weren't as good because they've all got paid and that they don't care as much, like stuff, that's pretty insulting of a clubhouse. If I'm being quite honest, I don't know how welcome he would be. So yeah, I have zero I have zero interest in Martin de Rosa.

00:49:36
Speaker 2: Durosa was also one of the multiple I believe who was like, hey, maybe the Braves are fine without Ronald Acuna Junior.

00:49:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's he was railed against a Cunya a couple. Yeah, I have the managerial experience alone would disqualify him for me. But even if that wasn't the case, I have no interest with him. The coaching staff is is like, because everybody wants to know about Ron Washington, Listen, Ron Washington is older than Snit. He just had a quadruple bypass surgery. There's no way in hell this guy needs to be managing a baseball team next year. But if Ron Washington came, it's like Hey, I can't manage, but I kind of want to do something. I want to go back to being your infield coach or one of your base coaches. Like, hell yeah, sign me up for that. It's much less stress. You're not the one dealing with the media every day. You're not the one making out the lineup, You're not the one, you know, getting bombarded with questions. It's a much less stressful job. So if he wants to do that, if he wants to get back on the staff in some way, sign me up. He has no business being manager, though, you know Freddy. I thought Freddy did a good job when he came over for third base. I have no idea what they're gonna do with Tim Hyers. I thought mid season, I thought for sure they're gonna fight. I thought they might fire him like June. It was going so poorly for a while, but the offense did turn it up, turn it around in the second half, might have saved his job. You really don't want to have to replace your hitting coach twice in two years. It's not really the sign of stability that the Braves typically look for. But Scott is one thousand percent right. The most important part of this conversation is you have to find a way to keep Rick Kranitz. That guy gets the very most out of whatever his talent level is at any given time, whether it's Chris Sale and Spencer Swallenbach or it's you know, Hurston Waldrip and Joey Wentz, whatever his talent level is, he gets the most out of it. And I don't know what their individual contract situations are. I don't know how tired they were to specifically snit, but you gotta I think the number one you have to try to keep Rick Kranitz if you can. I don't even know if he has any interest in managing. Probably not. I'm sure he'd be happy to stay as the pitching coach. I know the manager who you hire will probably want to have a say and who his pitching coach is going to be. But if it's possible, I would love to keep Rick Krantits.

00:51:49
Speaker 1: And I also think that it's worth noting that you know, if you were the more of that staff that you were to keep, like if you bring a Ron Washington on, if you were to retain a Freddie Gonzalez, if you were to retain a Rich Kranitz, that probably makes you more comfortable with potentially bringing in someone that you really like that doesn't have that managerial experience. If through these interviews in a name that we haven't even mentioned comes to light and really makes an impact in their interview with AA and whoever. You know, the hiring you know group is if you retain so many of those sources that you trust and do have experience, that could be what positions you to go after someone who may be more of a dark horse type candidate. Things such as that. And again, you know, Scott, we mentioned those names that you know, could you know potentially be on a list that we're not thinking of right now. One other thing to consider in this it's not really a wild card, it's just it's true about Alex and Topless. He is someone that puts a lot of value on his relationships and he is very loyal to those that he's worked with in the past. I don't necessarily mean that means he's going to hire someone that he's had extensive connections with, but I do think that that means that where he's going to talk that that's where names will come from that we may not have mentioned. But when we talk about connections that that is very important. You know, it's important to go with guys that you know. But it all comes back to this one thing. It comes back to why Steven is talking about a bilingual coach, someone that may be able to connect better in terms of communication with Latin American players and things like that. This coach has to prove without a doubt that when they go into the clubhouse you are very confident that they are going to gain that respect to the players that was so prevalent with Snit And they may have to do it in different ways. They may have to do it in different ways, but that above all has to be what stands out. If you put value on past managerial experience to see that, that's fine, but that's what has to stand out. You've got to get a guy who can connect well with the clubhouse because that's been such a pivotal part of what's been successful for us in recent past.

00:53:49
Speaker 2: And I think it's a virtual guarantee that that is going to be a large part of Alexanthopolis's decision. John, you did a great job interviewing Kevin Pillar the other night, and plard of reinforced some of the things we've heard about Alex and just how much he cares about the clubhouse and asking players about teammates and hey, how is this guy? Or you can be rest assured that no matter who he ultimately hires, the homework will be done. And if there's any real doubt, at least in my opinion, if there's any real doubt about who the person is not in the dugout and his ability to command a clubhouse and keep everybody together for seven or eight months at a time, I think that's probably more disqualifying than any other thing that they're going to talk about in the interview.

00:54:34
Speaker 3: And I'll say this, that's also why front offices don't just stick like one of their analytical guys down in that spot. You know, in the modern game, the front office kind of decides a lot of the strategic part of the game. They decide, you know, they have input on the lineup, they have input on the bullpen usage. And so people have asked, well, if you're going to control that much of it, why don't you just put one of your front office people in the dugout to be the manager. And the reason you don't do that. The reason you do not do that is because The players have to know and respect the person in that spot to get them to play hard for seven months. You cannot just stick an empty suit that they don't know, that they never heard of, that never played or is never managed. There's no reason for them to respect them. That is how you lose a clubhouse like instantaneously. And that's why, like, that's why I think managerial experience matters. Or that you've played, you've been on a staff, you have something that these players can look to and say, all right, he's done this. I can respect that, I can respect. I don't always agree with what he says, but he's been here, he's done this. It's why it's usually former players. That's why it's usually guys who have come up through the ranks. You very rarely just see just a out of nowhere hire for a manager because the respect factor is too big a deal, and it's every bit of deal in this search because of it, especially with the guy you're replacing, that has to, like Scott said, that has to be the main thing. It can't be a thing. That has to be the main thing.

00:56:05
Speaker 1: And I wonder him with this. On my end is that it's a time to also be excited right like, not because of the fact that that Snicker's no longer the manager, that he should be celebrated, praise, get all the adulation that he deserves, but it's a time where this is an opportunity to improve things. We've talked about it for more than a year now. Some things about the organizational approach to success that this organization has put in place for years they have to change. The best way to implement that is making sure that you get the leader of your roster right. And I don't feel there's anybody who knows the importance of that more than Alex Enthopolis because he's had the biggest impact on building what has been successful, what has proven to be successful in years past, that he now needs to make successful to his expectations once again. So that gives me confidence that he not only is going to be thorough and as we mentioned, exhaustive in this I fe that that means that he's going to get it right and at the end of the day, maybe a day that we mentioned may not, but at the end of the day, we're going to see that the name that he brings in is someone that he thoroughly vested and someone that I feel will be the right move for this clubhouse and hopefully will be a critical component to us getting back to the contention that we all know we want this team to be at Scott Steven As we wrap up this edition of the Hammer Territory podcast, anything else from either of y'all.

00:57:30
Speaker 2: Just a big day for the Atlanta Braves, and we all had a hunch that this was coming, but now it's real, and now it is a new era of Braves baseball. And we have not been able to say many times, and I mean honestly our lifetimes, that the Braves are looking for a new manager. It has been the pillar of consistency in Major League Baseball, and I'm excited for the future. I think you nail that, Sean. It's an exciting time. Give Brian Sticker all the love and credit that he deserves. But let's go find the manager and let's get back to winning, because I mean, boys, I put on a playoff game right now, and I am just so envious of just the passion and emotion. Not only get back to the playoffs, but let's get back to winning some playoff games. We've won two playoff games since winning the World Series, that's just not right. It should not be that way. Let's get a manager, let's have a good, productive, fruitful offseason, and then let's get back to being where we want the Braves to be.

00:58:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I echo all of that. It's gonna be. It's you know, it was already a fascinating offseason. We kind of assumed this was coming, and then we kind of assumed it might not come, and now it came. So now you know, not only is the roster up for debate and questions, now the manager and the entire coaching staff quite frankly is up. And so the one thing I will say is there's plenty of content coming because we have now even more questions to this offseason. We were gonna get probably weekly updates on this managerial search. We're gonna get some answers on the coaching staff about what their contractual statuses are, what they're interested in, are there interested in coming back? You know, it's going to get very interesting. And like I said at the beginning of this today, it's just the start of this process. I know it has some finality to it because somebody is leaving, but for the Brave from the Braves, perspective. This is day one of this process, and it's going to play out through you know, quite a bit of time going, you know, through the World Series and then the offseason starts in early November. But there's gonna be quite a bit to talk about, so make sure you're falling along.

00:59:26
Speaker 1: And to put this in as maybe eye opening a context as possible, we talk about the continuity the Braves roster, who they have under contract and things like that. Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Chris Sayle may be the only Brave who has been alive since nineteen ninety that's under contract through next year. He may be the only Brave who's been alive to have seen three Braves coaching searches in his lifetime. Pierce Johnson may be old enough, but again, we saw it in twenty sixteen, but the time before that was nineteen ninety era. Excuse me, excuse me, Let me tell let me take this back, let me take this.

01:00:07
Speaker 3: Back to see you the hell out of me with.

01:00:10
Speaker 1: I know, I don't want to talk about that. The point that I'm getting at is that this is again, the Braves have had three managers over the past thirty five years. To put it into context, you see some teams who go through three managers in multiple seasons, so it is quite quite rare to see a Braves managerial search. That's why it's exciting to see. For sure, nothing else from Scott and Steven. Can't thank you enough for joining us here on the Hammer Territory of podcast. We will be back tomorrow night after Alex Andthopoulos's comments when it comes to the Braves the end of the season. Now obviously a managerial just searched twenty to watch out for tomorrow with his comments, we'll break it all down tomorrow. Can't thank you enough for joining us again. A salute to Brian Snicker, great job on his career. Can't thank you enough. We'll talk to you again soon here on the Hammer Territory podcast. Let the.

01:01:07
Speaker 3: Least the lea