#181 - Caroline Hobby how much money she made doing Amazing Race, get dropped from her record deal and how much weight she’s gained being pregnant

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Speaker 1: It's a big week here in Nashville. Before we get into the podcast with Caroline Hobby that it is cm a week where it's a big festival for four days, four days in four nights. Um, so like this is uh, it's good to get Caroline and she has a great podcast and she's had quite the career in country music and she liked myself very busy all this week? Are you doing anything just show stuff? What's that mean? We have like remote tomorrow, nothing out there. I think I have a lot of TV stuff we're doing this week. Um. And then CMT Awards and I just got a note about my wardrobe. They're like depression where that you may get in trouble. Well, I'm not gonna say anthing about it. How do you know? I tell you, yeah, well whatever, I don't even want to mention it here. But uh, yeah, it's a big week, and so we wanted to put on a good, fun podcast with friend who also has done it all in music, from being an artist to working on the record side to being on Amazing Race too. She's married to an artist. Um, it's a whole thing. And she has a podcast called Get Real with Caroline Hobby, so we're about to get into that. Let me suggest though that you check out. Oh man, I just cracked a bunch of almonds and water, like I want to walk downstairs after the podcast? Did you right here? I drank a bunch of water, had a bunch of almonds. Good verb. I was holding it trying to fight it back the whole time. Um, we try to leave that in. Do at that out. I'll amplify it extended. Um. Amy has a four Things podcast up this week where if you're hearing this, you obviously know how to work a podcast. So let me encourage you. Got to check that out if you're board. And what are her four things she talks about this week? She has on Scotty West. Oh the guy who bought a house for it lost both legs. Yeah, she's talking about um spotted bananas, Like is that a euphemism for a winer or how they get chemically ripened? I will not eat a banana has a bruise on it where not like a bruisers at like a brown spot brown spot. Yeah, and the same thing like a bruise a bit like not on any brown spot of bananas makes it better? I don't think so. I like it a softer Yeah, you just beat up your banana before you eat it. You can. It's like good for like smoothies. Okay, well I don't see the bruise. I would eat it. Um. Do you know what else she has on the Four Things. Yeah, she's talking about under armed detoxing, and then she has Kim Anderson on underarm dtoxing. She talks about the weirdest stuff sometimes. And who's Kim Anderson. She's like a life coach. Okay, well, Amy has a Four Things podcast. I think you may like it. Amy's the best, so I think you'll like that. So if you're into sports, the Sore Losers have a sports show. Uh, Kelly Henderson. Uh, it's got some pretty cool new episodes up. Um, so you can check out Velvet's Edge. I know she has a good one with dirks Um. Do you wonder she had. I know she talked to Joy Williams today. Yeah. I don't know if that goes up. It's coming up this week. Yeah. I love Joy Illiams and Joy Wims is from the Civil Wars and she did a podcast with me and Kelly. I talked to her before she talked to Joy. She was like, what's joy like? And I was like, oh, she's the best. I want to be your best friend. When she left and then she was like, well I listen to yours, so I wouldn't have the same kind of podcast, so you're not gonna hear her. It'd be like the sequel. Yeah. That This week the Velvet's Edge Podcast, Kelly Henderson am I forgetting anything. Let's see. I think that's everything. I think that's it. Caroline Hobby is here, but we talked about a lot of the episodes in this podcast. Thank you all. If you're you know you want to come on the road and watch The Raging Idiots. It's a half comedy. Have I showed you the opening yet? Our new opening about it from Caitlin Okay, yeah, the whole the show. The show's way different. It's not just us playing music. It's comedy and it's kind of part musical, a little bit of stand up and then of course all the songs you've known to love from The Raging Idiots as playing acoustic, you know, like Chick fil A and the new record. Mostly where we are comedy songs. But if you get a chance to come out and you're in Denver, or Louisville or mhm, San Antonio. There's still a few tickets left. Austin completely sold out, but St. Louis sold out, trying to take of places where it's in the Vegas they're still tickets left. Mm hmm. It's it's we got pretty lucky that people care and the tours doing really well. But I encourage you to come out. Go to Raging Idiots dot com if you like comedy and it's clean, and bring the kids if you want. I think I make like two weener jokes, but I used the word wiener. Amy's husband came to the show and Bilexi and he was like, I got a couple of Winer jokes. That's what he told her. Joke about Winer a couple of times. But it it's not bad. Al Right. Here we go Episode um one eight one with Caroline Hobby. Thank you, Here we go. All right, Welcome to episode one eighty one with Caroline Hobby. You are more pregnant this time than last time I saw you. I was just looking at you naked on Instagram? Though pregnant? Did you said a picture of Mike? You know all these Instagram people post themselves and like swimsuits and like lingerie, and I have ever been one of those people until I got pregnant. And I'm always like, am I supposed to like go back, go buy it real fast? Or I'm always I've told you this on the radio show, and I'm always a bit confused as to how i should feel about it. I think, fine, it's just an observation of this pregnancy bump growing really, and I'm wearing granny panties. Those are more coverage than like most Yeah, I thought it was a swimsuit. Yeah, see, I mean it's more coverage than most. You do go into a lot of places to take your clothes off and take pictures of your pregnancy, though, I will tell you because clothes are hard to find, I can't find anything that fits. How pregnant are you? Almost twenty seven weeks? So that would be I'm sorry if I'm breathing a lot on here because I can't catch my breath. That would be um six, almost six and a six and a half, almost seven months. And so how does your pregnancy compared to the standard pregnancy? Are you smaller? Are you you bigger than most people? Yeah? Like, did you do the research? To see what you're supposed to be. Yes, I don't know. I had gained kind of ten pounds quickly, so I was really worried. I was like, oh no, this could get out of control. But I'm at twenty three pounds right now, which is yeah. I mean, it's fine, but I'm hoping to keep it under forty. I think if I keep it under forty, that's kind of standard. They say, like thirty five ish is good. But I've had some friends who gain like seventy and some people gained like five. So I don't know. I just it's like heavy, it's so heavy carrying it around. So I'm just for the take of my back. And it's a girl. It's a girl. And you heard do you have a name for her yet? But you haven't said it yet? Right? Okay, got it? Do you want to say it now? Okay? Giving you that opportunity right now. By the way, Caroline has a podcast called Get Real with Caroline Hobby And what would you say that podcast is about. I would say it is about women in especially women who are married to artists and um, but actually I am straying from that. This latest one's Nicole Galleon. And she is just an incredible singer songwriter who just has joined your podcast, what is it called Like Network? Yeah, yeah, we worked together. Yeah, so she's in the fan she Yeah, and she's written a bunch of massive songs. I think she's kind of the hit songwriter right now, but not just the hit songwriter right now, but she's so good that she's going to be one of them for a long long time. Yeah. Here she is on your podcast called Get Real, uh, talking about being okay with failing, okay with failing. I just don't think people remember we We remember what we fail at more than anybody. This resume that might look impressive, I guarantee, the one with all the misses and all the heartbreaks is so much longer, but the world isn't saying that. You know, she has written Tequila, and she a bunch of songs. She has Tequila, and she has automatic for Miranda Labor, Automatic Kenny, this one right here, all the pretty girls, and she has the Keith Urban song with Julia Michaels and so just so many songs. And we her and I were together, and we were in Los Angeles. Actually we were even a hoity twity are part of Los Angeles. We were in business. Well, oh, I love Venice and yeah, nic is kind of hippy though it was a kind of hippie, kind of trendy. And her and I were together and we were at this event and it was all usiness people and it was for this podcast that we're doing, and everyone's so Los Angeles, and and David Arquetts with us from Oh is he your friend? No, but he was that night. It was super nice and we're all hanging out and her and I are there against the wall. We turned into wall and and we were talking and we're both like, you're from Kansas and a from Arkansas. We're the least cool two people in this entire room because everybody was so cool, and so we're we're real. Yeah, that's true. We're not cool. Well, I mean people who are cool or they really cool, or they're just like, well, in that room that night, we definitely did not feel cool. You know what turned me onto your podcast was the one with Caroline Bryan, Luke Brian's wife, who I've become friends with now too because I've worked with Luke closer to an American idol. She's awesome, she's hysterical. I'm doing a live podcast with her at fest A, one of my first live podcast, and she's a wild card. She The thing I love about Caroline Brian is she's studying. She's like so beautiful, and you would think, like, oh my gosh, she's Luke Brian's wife. She's so pretty, she must be like untouchable. But she's the biggest prankster. She's hilarious. She's so real and honest. She's not afraid to talk about like everything that's happened in their life, and you're real about life. And I just really admire that this is her whenever you guys are talking about Luke Brian and how she knew that Luke Brian was the quote unquote the one I saw the way he treated me and other people, and I was like, my heart is yours forever. You know. I don't know he has liked that defining moment, but just when I saw how he treated him and his family and his mom, I was just like, I'm sold, signs still delivered. I'm yours. Was Caroline, when you when you let that fish go after you caught it, I knew when you released it, I knew we were gonna be together forever um and then she you guys got serious. She opened up about their miscarriage. And what's sad is that, you know, girls who have had one, girls take your harder than a guy does, because it's not really as realist. They look didn't know really how to comfort me. Yeah, because you know, he just he didn't get it. But as girls, when you go through it and you lose it, you just there. There is a loss. There is a loss, and it sucks and it hurts and you're physically her and you're well, it's it's awful physically and so and this isn't a whole podcast about your podcast, but I did want to mention, and I brought up with with Thomas Read. He was in the other day and I played him a clip of his wife on your show that on your Instagram, and he was so embarrassed. He lowered his head into his arms, was so embarrassed. No, of course, not here is with Lauren Aikins, Toma Strett's wife, And Lauren was like, okay, Thomas dared me to kiss her. The first time he dared me to kiss him. I was like no, he confessed his no, no, no, yeah, and he was like, can we just try just one time and you guys hate it, then then we'll just leave it a lot. I've never been showing again, we don't even have to be friends anymore, Like we'll just drop it. I was like, no, absolutely not. And so there are a lot of great episodes and it's doing it's doing really well well thanks to you getting behind it and spread the word. Well, I don't listen if a big, old, monster, awesome tree can fall in the woods and if nobody hears it, no tree fell. And I remember you coming over and I was like, hey, listen, you have a great podcast. I was not I can do to make it better, but I can actually make people hear it, and then you can have a shot to prove if it's really worthy of their ears or not. And I think you haven't think it's been great. Don't you feel it's been great. I feel like it's been awesome, and I really it's been awesome to being partnered. Is it correct? We're partnered with you? Yeah, being partnered with you, and I've just really it's been a great experience and I'm just it's being connected with you and your show has made me so motivated to make it better and make sure I have great episodes because now it's like, Okay, we have like a place to live. Yeah, we have a little home now, and we play them not only in our show might but we put them in like national promos and stuff. Yeah. Well listen, it wasn't good. We wouldn't okay. But your story is interesting. And how you can get so close to a lot of these artists and their wives is because because you've kind of done it all in Nashville. Because did you come to town to be an artist when um, when I was nineteen years old, and so you move here and what was your your nineteen year old dream? My nineteen year old dream was to be faith Hill or Twain. So you wanted to be a solo singer? Yeah? And so were you go to home? No? No, I mean I really had. I sunk at church and I was in show choir, but I wasn't like playing all the local gigs around town. I don't know why. I just always thought I wanted to be a singer, but I hadn't really done a ton of it when I was living at home. But I just was like, I'm moved to Nashville. And I'm a thing. Were you good in church though? In show choir? I mean I kind of thought I was. But did people say, oh, Carolin, you're a really good singer and me, Well, I didn't have like a lot of competition in Waco, Texas, you know, like in my in my pool. It's not like anyone else was really doing it. So I think the fact that I was even doing it, people are like, whoa you know, so you moved to Nashville, and do you know anyone here? Nope, Oh you're so You're like a lot of people, you just move here and have to kind of figure it out. Yeah, I moved here. I don't know anybody here. And I had gone to Baylor for the first year of college, and I was going to just try to see if I could like go to the regular route and just go to college and not pursue this. And then I got in. I did my first year at Baylor, and I'm from Waco, and I was like, Okay, I have to go to Nashville. Like I just always knew I had to go to Nashville, and so I transferred to Belmont. I didn't know anyone, and I was a recluse I was so nervous and afraid and scared and overwhelmed. And you got into Belmont and to do what the music business? Because I wanted to intern So if you were in music business, you could get internships. And so I was like, if I can get internships, then maybe I could meet people. Then maybe I could like get into the music business. Because I had read that Julie Roberts, who's saying breakdown here back in the day. I loved her. She like worked at the front desk at Capital or something. You would worked at the front desk at Mary telling more records. So I was like, if I can just get in one of these buildings, then maybe I can meet people and something can happen. You've had so many different little paths. Is funny when I even in my head, I'm kind of tracking back through all the ways we've kind of crossed paths. Because I met you in Austin when I moved to Austin for a little while, and we will get there, We'll get there. You moved here and you're nineteen years old and you go to Belmont and do you could end up graduating from the all you did? And so the whole time you're learning what in school? Nothing? Really, I mean music business in English. But school is never my priority playing any gigs at all. He's singing writing. Had a weekly gig every week at this place called Judge Beans Barbecue. It was across from twelve and Porter, and I knew the owner and he was so nice and let me play every single week, and so I did like a two hour set and I was playing every week. And then after that for a while, then I met Jennifer Wayne and she is John Wayne's granddaughter. She's amazing, and we both run away by the way, run Away June, and we both were kind of shy at the time, and we were like, we should join forces, and so we kind of linked up, and after that we were a duo. And then we ended up meeting Taylor, who is Lauretta Lynn's granddaughter, and we became a trio. And then we dug up somewhere that I was related to Daniel Boone. So you started hard enough hard to find all because I think they had they need a stick, they were naturally related. Yeah, well you bought twenty three and me and then you match that with ancestry and you shook it up and yeah, and then what came out was eleven Generations. Prior at cousin was a mallman with Daniel Boone perfect. So then you had a story because if we were going to do a reality show, because we're like, oh, now that we have this heritage background, we could go ahead and get a reality show because we thought it would be a great selling point, which I mean, well, what do you mean you wanted a reality show? Like you just in your mind or did someone approach you about that. We had a pitching us as a a agency, pitching us as a trio with all this heritage and they're gonna like package it as a TV show, And the name of the group was Stealing Angels. Here we go here is he better be dead from stealing angels? Had signing it up a Grandma Lands. So tell me that kind of the transition from that song is not intense at all. You guys coming together having this idea. So when did you start going, Okay, we're gonna When did you not get the reality show? Um, we had gone. We got all the way to the end of this process of TLC shoot a pilot. Yeah, we actually we saw like three pilots and so I just never got picked up. No, never I picked up. So, but did you sign a record deal in the middle of all this or afterwards? So in the middle of all of this, we were like, We're just gonna stay a trio no matter what. And then we ended up signing a record deal with Paul Worley who Do you Like the Dick She Chicks and stuff, and he kind of started a label for us called Skyville, and then we ended up partnering with Sony so stealing angels our trio. And the first song you put out was he Better Be Dead? Are you going? Let's here it again? So when you got first launched, did you have a lot heat on your were You're like, Oh, I think we can do this. This would be a big thing. People were really excited about us when we we did a big radio tour and we had tons of friends and radio like we loved everybody. It was great. But I just I don't know if our songs connected. I can't imagine why they had bashing So you have you Better be Dead and that? How well does that one do? That? One got to think? Okay, So it charted to be top fifties considered charting, but most of our singles don't do well. Yeah, so you're going, all right, let's here we go again, let's kind of regroup, and so then what happened then when you put out Then we put out this song called paper Heart? I remember paper Heart? How did that one? Do? I think that one was like fifties? Okay, so you have two now that didn't work. Are you starting to go? Oh crap? And we're kind of on we're like basically on an independent label, which is also another oh crap because you don't have a big push behind you and you don't have artists that you can link and leverage for you, Like it's not like they have Blake Shelton as well, and they're going, okay, well, if you don't play them, we're gonna screw you over on Blake, and Blake's not gonna There's a lot of leveraging going on with record labels. Okay, so that one doesn't do well? And do you get a third shot though? Yeah? Then we can't know. Uh maybe I think we put up this song called little Blue Sky for three seconds. For three seconds, here's little Blue Sky And what was your job in the band? That's me singing? We would switch singing. See, let me hear this one, let me close mines and imagine it in a church choir a little all right, So that song doesn't do well either, and then it was over. So you have three songs that don't do well, and how do they tell you that it's no longer going to be a thing. We had an investor and I think he got tired of investing, and it was after the third single. It just kind of wasn't like going anywhere. They put a lot of money into us, and it was sort of like, well we tried, and how does that conversation happen fast? Like really bad room meeting? How did it go? I don't know how it went exactly. I just know it was like from one week to the next, we were like on this massive radio tour for I felt like three years, and then playing all these fairs and festivals, gone all the time, living on a tour of us to like crickets. It happens so fast, So when that happens, you go, well, we were also going to split as a group. Where do you go? I think we should hang out and see if we can get a deal and keep pursuing stealing angels well, Taylor also had gotten pregnant. Taylor was obviously not jin and Renoi June and not maybe Taylor is lat Land's granddaughter. She had gotten pregnant and hadn't really told us, and so when all this happened, she was like, oh, by the way, I'm pregnant and I'm moving to Seattle because that's where she met her fiance and they were going to move to Seattle. They met like two months. She was like on her way. So unless it was going to be a duo, there was no stealing angels anymore. Yeah, so Jen and I entered into like a panic attack. Okay, you're freaking out. Yeah, you don't have a job, So do you think about putting out trying a solo thing, a duo thing. We're going to do a duo thing named named no name. We didn't have a name, terrible name. We didn't have a name. Because right when we're going to do the duo thing, our agent called us and was like what are you all doing? And we're like nothing, panicking losing our minds, and they're like, oh, great, perfect, we have this opportunity for you to go an amazing race. Just in time, just in time. Did I meet you before? Oh? I had moved to Austin. That's what happened. I had a breakdown after stealing Angels ended. Taylor moved to Seattle. Jen and I were still working this out, but I was like, I was also dating my now husband, Michael. Hobby's in a thousand horses. Everyone needs to check out their new music. You're gonna love it, Bobby excited. I haven't, it's coming. Okay. Well that how am I supposed to know? I'm just prepping you'd be excited, okay. And so we had broken up for two years and when we broke up, I moved to Austin, and I was like because my sister lived in Austin. She just had a little girl, and I was like, I gotta get out of Nashville. Like my whole life has exploded here. I've got to get the hell out of this town. So I just moved to Austin and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna hang out my sister. I'm gonna maybe sit my niece. What were you going to do for a job. I started teaching music class. This little school called is called Music Together. So I was teaching all these little kids, And what were you teaching them? I was teaching O, my God, to play with the instruments, and we'd like sit in circles and sing little songs and run around. I mean, it's really cute. But I knew it wasn't my forever life thing. And so I saw you. I remember going up to the radio station one day and I was was I still in Austin Because I was actually trying to network at that time too. I was like, maybe I can like figure out how to have a life in music in Austin. I was. I just didn't know what I was doing. I was living in Austin. Yeah, because you hadn't moved. You hadn't moved yet, and I didn't know who you were. I didn't know that you were like this you were and that Bobby was not what you know. It wasn't of the magnitude that is now. Yeah, until pretty big. We were, you know, on a bunch of popping hip hopositions around the country. But but I remember you sitting in the lobby. Yeah, I forgot who was going to be with. I knew somebody who knew someone at the station, j T. Maybe he was a program director. Were you trying to work on the air. I didn't know what I was trying to do. I was just trying to talk to anybody. Remember meeting you, Yeah, I don't know what are we talking to you? I don't know what it was about. I was just like, what up? I didn't know you were a singer? And then and then I don't remember. I don't know why that lasted with us, like how we remembered we met each other because it was just so in passing. Yeah, maybe because do we have mutual friends. We do now Mini, But I don't know about then. I don't know. So I meet you in Austin, I moved to Nashville. You moved back to Nashville probably around the same time. And whenever you moved back, my next in the airport because lunch Box is a fan of Amazing Race. That's where I didn't meet you, though he did, I wasn't with him. Well, that's where I connected with Amy and lunch Box because lunch Box was like a big fan of Amazing Race and he like came towards me in the airport and wanted to like hang out and talk because he loved Amazing Race. Somewhich We're like, what is this doug funding looking dude? Because adult man going nuts for because he does. He just yells at people. Yeah, I saw him running today. You saw him running. Yeah, he right by my house. I was like, lunch box, that guy wears no headphones when he runs. It's amazing. He was like, hey, yeah, he runs a nothing, no music. He's pretty fast. Yeah, he's a really good running. Yeah. There's a lot of warnings you don't want to miss, like a sign saying bridge ahead, or the lifeguard announcing shock in the water. But in the digital world, there may be no warning when it comes to cyber threats. And that's why life flock identity. That protection includes Norton Security for more protection. Life Flock uses proprietary technology to health to take threats to your identity, lack your personal info for sealing the dark web, and Norton Security protects your devices from ransomware, emerging by says and other online threats, and if you have a problem, their agents will work to fix it. Of course, no one can stop every cyber threat or prevent all identity after monitor all transactions at all businesses, but having life Flock with Norton means will warn you about the threats that you could otherwise miss on your own. 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When I did Dance with the Stars, they paid you up front mostly probably got a good paycheck. Yeah, you don't get a good paycheck with Amazing Race unless it has wo they pay you to start? Would they pay you all all in? Did they tell you you couldn't talk about this? No id. The day starts on me a hundred and fifty to start God, and then you get great and everybody got the same. There was no nobody's more of a star. No, but then you got paid the longer you stayed in and I won. By the end of it, I was rolling because it kept elevating danks. Did you walk away like a cool mill? No? No, but it was a lot great. So wait, so that show do you get paid based on week to week challenge? The challenge based on just your place? Like that? When the show has wrapped up? What place did you finish it? So you get no money until the end pretty em though they give you like pretty em to eat and stuff. Yeah, okay, so at the end and you get where you finished. We got fourth place the first time, in second place the second time. So the first time we should have won. So fourth place? Does that make six six figures? If you win, you win a million dollars? Okay, but I'm talking about that. I'm talking about fourth place. Okay, so it goes like a million two? Uh, that's second place? On was that what it was? Yeah? And then from there I don't even know because I mean it's like, but you finished fourth. Yeah, so we probably got like five thousand each. I don't know, but I guess because they're like taking you all over the world and they're paying for all this stuff that if you add it all up, it would probably be like spending a ton. I don't think that's a fair comparison, though, because you could have been working her job and they're also making money if you going to all these places. Anyway, Fine, did you have a good time? Great time? Was it when you look back, one of the greatest experiences the first time you went up your life? I'd say so. I look back to it as dopey as it was me doing that dancing show because I had people tell me not to do it. Yeah, because they're a big contingency. Was oh, don't do Dancing with the stars. Only losers dancing with the stars. I don't think that's true. Well, I called two people. One of them is one of my best friends, UM and my best friend in any sort of creative work, as Charlemagne, the god who does UM hip hop works for the Breakfast club, and I was like, hey, man, I want to do it just because it'd be fun for me. And then over you're just grinding away and it's not always fun for me. Just I mean, I'm everywhere all the time. And he's like, dude, like Michael Strahan did it, Wendy Williams did it. He's like, your eyes are going up on that show. You're going down and you're going up. So there's and so him having that talk with me, and also my agent, Rachel Adler, she was like, if you want to do it. You never do anything that you just want to do. It's like you should do it, and who cares? Just do And I did it and it was the hardest, but I loved it. I feel like you changed in that show, like you're like happy, so so so happy all the time. Not that you're not happy a little bit. I was performing because I was so tired. And it's one of those where you look back, you know, after like a three hour and twenty minute movie and it ends and has a great inning, You're like, wow, that was great, but like for two thirds of the movie you're like, how long is this stupid movie going to be? Because it ended so well? Yeah, and because the experience look at that was so good, Like I loved it, and I'm also wasn't embarrassed to talk about it afterward. A lot of people are like, I don't want to talk about that name asked me, I'll talk about for two hours, Like I loved it, and so what I loved it? And you look back at that first season or you like that was like premiere time for us. Yeah, and tell me if you felt this going on Dancing the Stars, because going on amazing race, I it opened me up in a way that it was just such a new world and I was just such a different group of people because it brings together just all these different people, which I'm sure Dancing the Stars does too. That it just like opened my mind up to like a totle new way of living too, that there's so many ways to live life, there's so many ways to be happy, there's so many ways to like do this thing that because it's so easy to get stuck in a rut and think you have to go now this one path. But I don't know, did you feel that way? I did, because one, I never met a Mormon until I Dance with the Stars answers, and if I did, I don't even care what religion you are, as long as you're like a good person, be good to animals and kids. We're square. I don't, but I actually spent time and I would ask some questions about their religion. I was just so interested in it that the same thing I've always known that we're basically all taken different side roads to get to the same place. And so that's what I learned. But I had never actually been close with anyone of the Mormon faith. And there was the time I did like three Mormons in a row. It was crazy on the stars. Well is it one of those kind things where everybody dates each other anyone from the show. But um, I got I went out with a girl for a while while I was doing a dancer with the stars. Um, and then like two I just had never even I don't even look for what religion people are. It's not in the first couple of things with me, like we're good, we'll we'll square up later and see if we get along well and you're like a good person, we'll figure out that stuff later. Um. But that that I'd never don't know anybody was Mormon cause I grew up in Mountain Pine, Arkansas. Yeah, so pretty down the middle. All Baptists or all Methodists, even not even that many Catholics until I got to Texas and it felt like Mike would just say that because all my Mexican press were Catholics. Yeah, oh yeah, because it's Texas. So that that was a big deal and a cool thing for me. That so that experience and also even like music, and I have worked all the formats, but I'll give you an example. I just figured that most people use Spotify all the time because in Nashville, that's one of them. Nobody uses Spotify out there. Everybody used Apple Music. And even on that side of things, I was like, well, this is weird because I would be like, hey, because I'm curious what people use every day, just because I want to know people are doing so I can either be ahead of it or at least kind of be caught up. Nobody use Spotify and everybody and it was like nobody everyone use Apple Music in l A. So it's kind of a what it was even why do you think they don't use Spotify? Don't know, I don't know. Maybe because Apple Music didn't get into the country thing quick and still they're just getting into it and Spotify got in quicker. So maybe because of that, Spotify is kind of dripped into Nashville a little quicker. Um, but nobody uson and I'm not just my dancers. Like people would come and guest on the show. I always want to know what are you listening to and how are you listening to it? And even what devices are you listening with. I love technology. They on their phones most of the time, everybody all the time. So but it was that kind of stuff. It's funny you mentioned that because that even those little things, but religion is a big thing, but even like the technology part of it. And then I lived out there for a while. I know you traveled around. To you, it is probably different because you would see different cultures. Even for for me, I just live in Los Angeles for how long would you see a ton of cultures in Los Angeles? Ten years? Like I can think like three months, three months, And so that was a different kind of ball game for us too. Yeah, so you're doing the radio show from there every day. That was the hardest part because it was so early. Oh, because you still have to do it. I'm like every central time, every way to do it every day, all the hours. And then I would just go from work and just dance until the sleep time and then go to work again. Oh, if I would have known it would have been that hard, I would have still done it, but I would have went into it completely different. But yes, it changed me in that way. I just saw things in different ways and so but again I think out of the country. So you started in boord board that how do you get there? First? You just why? But did you like run? And everyone just running all the time? So that steps true. You are running running constantly. They're not like, all right, nobody, get over to your spots. We're gonna start you running in three too. Know, you just run always. Anytime that you're not sitting on an airplane or in a cab, you're running. It's like always running. And what about the photographer of the camera guy they're running to? Yeah, you have the camera guys are in great shape. They have to be hot because they can't miss. No they ever fall. You ever seen follow the camera? Really? Yeah? That sunks and it's funny. And you have to stay with the camera guy. So like if they if you're like darting really fast and they're not with you, they'll like yell at you and you have to like slow down. Did you have to be miked all the time, all the time. I had to be liked every second I was on. So I just shove. I just didn't talk growing practice. I was not letting them, I was not letting them manipulate my words in any way whatsoever. So I said not a word of practice, that I was only going to give them what I could. And they would get so pissed at me because you're not saying anything. I'm like, you're right, I'll do it all live. I'll do it live and so but with you, you had to worry about that, like what are they going to use in editing? Yes? And did they how do they edit you guests? Like what was your team? They edited us to be kind of like did C blonds, which was sort of how we played it because we wanted everyone to really like us, and also we wanted to have fun and we were always really nice, but we didn't want anyone to feel threatened of us. We were friends with everybody and we made friends like all the guys, and so they would help us sometimes on like with them to get them to help you mean, yeah, we're both single too. So it was just it was kind of a fun time because if we were all single. There's a lot of single people. Um like a big orgy. No time for that. Sign me up, that's going. You're going and you go bor Bora first. I don't even know where that is. I mean it's some islands. How do I get there? What's it near? God? I'm really not good at maps? Jin was the map person? Do you guys always fly together or were they like just going? How do you get plane tickets? You go to the airport and you have to like either go to travel agency or you go to the airport and you just figure out on the board which flights to take, or you go talk to a person in the front desk and then your camera guy pays for it. But then how does the camera guy get through security with that big old camera? They call him ahead of time and say no, they're just the Compari belt those cameras. Does camera that just shipped the Compari belt? Okay? Do you have audio got running with you too? So you have a camera guy, an audio got running with you. That's four persons when you're traveling. Okay, so you have to stay with him at all times? You are? You go Bora Bora first? Yeah? Oh? Gosh, okay, um, it's in the middle of nowhere. That's crazy. It's in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, like around nothing. If you're shooting off of California, like middle of California. Down below there's California and there's Australia. It's like right in the middle. Wow, there's no it's nothing there. It's really pretty. Everyone should go What did you do when you get to Bora Bora? Skydived out of an airplane over the island. It was so amazing. And did you win to Bora Bora? No? We just we just always stayed in the big middle of the pack. We never got a first place win. We weren't like the dominating team that was like getting those first places. We would always just kind of hang in the middle. So where did you finish? What city? Um? Okay, first season we finished and I have the world's first memory. I should remember this. Where is the last one? Where did the second season? We finished in Vegas? The first season we finished in Oh my god? Is it in the States? Do you finished back in America? D C? Okay, so you finished in d C. And do you know what place you're gonna be in? Is you're about to finished. You know that others already gone up. Uh, well we didn't. I think we thought we still had a chance when we were in d C. And then we got out. No, we got out before we got out this right before the final episode. Do you have your phones with? You take your phones the whole time. So you finished fourth and you're like, well that was fun. We will take our eighteen dollars that you gave us and a slurpie and we'll go back to Nashville. So you come to Nashville. Then No, I got back to Austin. You do, Yeah, any plans to move back to Nashville. Ope? And then I was so Jenna and I were like, Okay, maybe not. We've been on TV. We can get a little moment. I'm going with our duo. And so it was CRS week, which is country radio seminar. We just finished Amazing Race and all of country music radio was coming to town in Nashville and February, and so we were like, let's just and we loved everybody in radio, so we're like, let's just go hang out, talk to people, see if we can get something, see if we can like stir something up and so I flew into Nashville and when CRS had a great time and I ended up seeing this guy who I had known for a long time, a songwriter, and he literally like I saw him at the Bridge Bar, which is like the bar that everybody hangs out at Cirrus, and he like walked across the bar and he was like, Caroline, I have been looking for someone just like you. I have a job and I want to hire you, and I want you start next month at a publishing company. And I'm really big into like manifesting and then see like visions and stuff. And I had written down my goals that I wanted to create an interesting, stimulating job that uses my people's skills and music knowledge. That's what I wanted. Artist dream was over though at this point kind of yeah, And I learned on Amazing Race that I could use my personality as a job. I always really liked being an artist, but I hated songwriting and I really like performing, but I didn't I don't know, I just i sing. If people would be like Caroline sing, I wasn't one of those people. I just wanted to sing, so I loved it, but it was sort of like the vehicle that got me here, and then I realized there's a whole other world of things you can do because I didn't know being from wake ups like either to be like an actor, singer or a model as your options and entertainment, you know, so you work in the published company. Yeah, so I moved to Nashville. He's like, can you start next month? And I'm like, yep, I have nothing going on in my life again, so when we move back to Nashville and that goes for how long? I was there for two years and then I all At that same time it was also a published the publishing company was also a record label, so the head of the record label was like, well, Caroline, you know all these people in radio and we need a regional, so will you be a regional? And I was like absolutely not. I was like there's no way. I was like, I will not be a regional. It is too hard. Radio is the best, but they are show no mercy with music, and I was like there's no way I could go do it now now it as an artist, you know, you kind of like can just go be yourself and everyone well they're like like you or not. But like I always had a great relationship. So it's fun. But I was like, being a regional and have to get people to play music, I have to ask him for stuff, bother them, drive them nuts, Like no way. So I was like, no, I will not be a regional and he was like the president who I love. Skip Bishop was like, yes, come on, you can do this. I was like, no, I will not. I was like, the only way I will do it is if Jenn can do it with me. Gin Wayne, I was like, we have all the same regions and we have to be a team. And I was like, okay, which happened. That's when you and I crossed paths again. Yeah, because I'm then moved to Nashville and you brought Natalie and Natalie still and she was great. Who it is great and she still plays with me all the time. So it was really great to have an art And that's another thing. Because I believed in Natalie. I was like, Okay, I can do this because I didn't want to be one of those regionals who's trying to push something down someone's throat and they suck, you know, because that happened. Sometimes I'm like, I'm not going to go around and do that and like be that person. And so I was like, Okay, Natalie is great. I really believe in her. Jin and I can do this together. So yeah, okay, let's do it, even though it's not it was not in my comfort zone. Just so so far. Just to kind of walk through this, you we're in college, a college student, then you were an artist, then you were a music teacher, then you are a reality star now, and then you walked through the publishing company. Then you were doing card promotion, and you're doing that and then is that one amazing race calls back again and they say, we're doing a season about all stars but all sorts. But you didn't win, you didn't evenish the top three, but we get made it to the season finale. Top four is the final season finale? Is this final episode? So are you like absolutely? Why not? Yeah? Okay, so you go back again and how do you do second place? We lost by four seconds? And did you see the other people beat you? It was really it was really frushening. I don't know if I told you all this on the show the other day, but like we were in the lead. Nobody thought we would be in the lead, Like Jinn and I were in the lead. We're in our taxi cab speeding to the final challenge. We're like, we got this holy crop. We may win this whole thing, Like what in the world. And then some of our best friends Les A Show, David Connor. They were like father daughter, father's son, cancer survivors are the greatest guys ever. They paid their cab driver a hundred dollars to just like speed past us. We didn't even know you could do that. And so then they speed past us. They get to the clue box four seconds before us, and they drew a clue, and it was like the first time ever that does it ever happen? At least for Jen and I that there was like this stop clock and it was because we were skydiving again where you had to like have a thirty minute time where you from start like when you drew your clue at the time stopped to win, that thirty minutes was up, like you had to sit that whole thirty minutes out. So because they got to their the clue box four teconds before us, their stop clock started first. But I was in my airplane five minutes before they ready to jump, So I was like technically I was ready first and I got it on the first try, so we would have won if we didn't have the stop clock. You finished second, and they pay you. You got each, so after taxes you got about eight thousand dollars each. You come back to Nashville, and then what then I'm kind of back in that same place where I've been before. I'm like, Okay, I really don't love being a regional. Actually the record labill show it down, so that kind of worked itself out because there was another independent one and it just the same thing. Investor not really wanting to do it anymore. Um. And then I was still doing plugging song plugging, pitching too songs that pitching songs to artists and managers and A and R people, and I loved it because I loved taking meetings and meeting with everyone. But I was like, this isn't my true love. And so I was like, Okay, what am I gonna do? And after amazing Race, I really fell in love with like doing TV work and realizing that you can use your personality as a job because I didn't really know that was even that thing, but I didn't know how to do that, what to do like I didn't have, like, you really any skills other than I've been in boot camp for like ten years of seeing angels getting interviews from the other side that I had like understood what I thought was a good interview and what I what didn't think it was a good interview, and so um. At that same time, Tony Brown, who's a huge producer, it was like, I really love you and Gin and I want to record two songs on y'all just because I'd never think I've been recorded correctly, so I want to just go in and cut two songs. And he's like George Straits producer, like he's like one of the biggest producers of all time. So we're like okay, yeah, sure, So we did that. We recorded two songs with Tony Brown, and because of all of our connections through song plugging and everything else, we were really close with Benny Brown who was running um Broken Bow and John Loeba, who was the one of the main guys that Broken Vow. So we're like, we like drove John crazy, and we're like, John, can we just play these songs? Please? Please please? So we went and played John our music and John was like, Okay, this is really good actually, and um, I think I could have something. So at that point, though, Jin really realized that she loved music and wanted to do music and pursue it all the way, and I realized that I didn't, and that, even though I loved it and want and like was so grateful for these opportunities, I didn't want to good on the music road. I wanted to do more personality host driven stuff, even I didn't know how to do it. And so she kind of moved forward pursuing that relationship with John and then formed run Away June and all that, and then I sort of was like, Okay, well I need to start something, so that's when I started my podcast. So I had heard you're going to be a run Away June. At first I was going to be, but then I just Jen and I decided it was really amicable that that was her love and not mine anymore, and so we just sort of decided to split ways at that point in our life. But I helped write some of their songs in the beginning because I was still writing songs and before they like locked it all in. So it was it was great. We we love each other so much, but our past just started going different ways and we both realized that we were on the same we didn't have the same passions anymore. Jen and I have a mutual friend. Jen was a tennis player. Yeah, she was a pro, a pro freaking tennis player. And I remember asking Andy Roddick and I was like hey, and he was like, yeah, but her name was in Jen Wayne back then. Cool cool, yeah it was. He was like, that's the same girl. I was like, yeah, here's that agreed. So so then you started the podcast, and how long did you do the podcast? When did you start the podcast? This is three years in April. Wow, I've been done for three years. Oh, look at you grinding away. I think it was probably one of the first ones to start it. Like in the beginning, you got we're kind of at the same time. Um, all right, listen, I don't know. I mean, we've had ten different versions of something, haven't we. I mean, this one's hung longer, and we've put time in real time and effort into it. But I didn't know what I was doing when I started a podcast, and I didn't even know what it was. And that's that's about, right, And you kind of find your place, like life truly, you don't know what you're doing your whole story bounce bounce, bounce, and you've kind of figured out nowt what you like to do. And so then you started the podcast and I remember because we had known each other through so many different ways anyway, and Eddie came in with that Caroline Brant podcast and he was like, if you're a Jenn Hobbies podcast podcast Jan Hobbies podcast, Yeah, Carol, and how sorry I get you guys? S up? Have you heard that's that's about you? Guys thinking like their Jenna Hobby. He's like, if you're a Caroline of the podcast and I was like, I haven't, and but I've seen some of the stuff that you were doing over at Cumulus and you were doing like some some digital stuff with them, and I was like, uh, you know what up and He's like this it's so good and so I was like, well, so let me check it out. So then Mike and I were talking and that's what I called. Wait, that's not true. You text me first. We were about to call the weirdest thing. We're about to call like the next day. Yeah, I kid you, not Mike. You. I had a long conversation and to me, it's not even about how good it is, it's about how often the person shows up to work. And we could just look and see all the episodes you were doing, and then you kind of found your place and in finding these artists wives, and I think even then you're finding your place too. We're just doing like really strong independent women with a voice. And I was like, man, that's and then you hit me and I was like, dude, we don't have to go even get her, like this is just she's just gonna work. That's also, yeah, that right, I told you that right. Well, I don't know. I thought it was like a Freudian slip that you said you called me, But I was like, I know I called you all you text me one morning, but we were already talking about it because Eddie had brought in the podcast before that and we were like what about yeah, so and then now look at you, you look at me, flying look at you. You know you have you have advertisers, no right, which takes forever. Some shows it takes forever, Like with you, it is well you have enough listens now or even if you didn't, and if it's time for people, because it takes a good amount of downloads each month to get an advertiser to buy in, because why do they want to buy one that gets a thousand downloads? Yeah, I'm not gonna spend any months, you know. But I mean you grew quick. It really did grow fast, because I told you my goals when I came here. I was like, okay, So I'm like right here, I don't mean what what did I tell you? And it grew fast? What did I tell you? Not that's going to go fast? But I said I believe in you. Yeah, I mean it grew really fast. Like I was very because like I made this vision board for the beginning of the year and I've already I've already reached the goals that the number of listeners I was hoping to get for episode for the end of this year. So I'm like, great, this really could exceed all my ex Well, I think it can eventually be a By the way, TV show to me doesn't mean actually on TV. It means any platform with the visual platform. I think can actually be a TV show that does well. I mean, listen, I think you're fantastic. I think I appreciate that. Thank you for believing in it. That really means a lot. Well, so here you are and you're about to have a baby and your husband better put out new music. Yes, with Dave called. They just signed a new record deal too, which is great. He's kind of been like me, he's been on a journey. They're gonna be on their third major record deal where they where they signing out? Um, I guess it's out because they've talked about Electra and Warner. It's with Dave Cobb to their producer, so they have a real deal. Yeah, this is the third major one. I'm like, who has three major label deals? And there's where were they at? First Interscope and then they were at Big Machine, but Interscope not really a country label. They were kind of rock back then oh got it huh, and then Interscope dropped. They were always rock country because Michael's cousins, I don't know if you know this other Black Crows, Uh yeah, which which which ones both of them Their brothers got it and so he grew up like loving the Black Crows and so it's always been rock, but it's been southern and so they kind of were like but they I mean, it just straddles that line of country rock, and so they went rock and the first one and then Interscope drop forty label, forty acts in one day, and so they're like, okay, well so then they just started like keep chipping away and they found this like cool groove of country rock. And it's been great. It's been a journey. I mean that's the thing with like he and I is you just kind of learned to embrace the journey because it's like if you get too hung up on like this vision of how you think your road's gonna go, you'll probably get pretty disappointed because it's just a rocky road. You gotta keep trusting and believing yourself. M um. Black Crows lead singer is Chris Robinson. Chris Robinson, that's right, and Rich Robinson's his brother. Which is also a fun fact. Rich and his wife were in Nashville for like three months that they just lived with us in their house, so they are two kids. It was a blast. While she was pregnant, I was like, this is so weird, Like this is such a random life, but it's so normal because everyone's so normal. But like I, like my Waco self would have never thought that would just hear. I am just bopping around living with the Black crows. So are you enjoying being pregnant or is it awful? I love being pregnant. The first trimester was awful, and I had a lot of anxiety because we didn't have like a miscarriage and some trouble getting pregnant, and so I was like very very very nervous the whole first trimester that like, we're just gonna lose the baby. It wasn't a stick or something's being wrong with it. And so once I got through that, it was great. The second trimester has been awesome. I feel good. I have a giant bump, so it's like, so I'm pregnant. She's kicking around all the time, which is really amazing. And I'm just very thankful because I know how lucky I am to be pregnant. It's like it's now that I'm in my thirties and I have so many friends who are women. It's not easy to get pregnant and it's a very emotional journey. So I'm really just grateful every day. M like, at you come a long way, just grown up so fast. I'm gonna be thirty six in July. Yeah, yeah, Hey, Mike. She asked me. She was like, do you think Ben Amy's husband would do You already told me he would do it. Good luck. I wanted to do Amy and been together, but you shot that down. Yeah you don't want that. Ama. Amy'll overwrite every question. No, yeah, I don't think so, because she has a big personality. Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean Amy Amy overrides me and a lot of interviews, mostly because I let her. She's superstarry. But you are a really good balance. I have to stay. Oh, she's the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Yeah, professionally and even because I don't have a girlfriend, even on that like having a sane email, Amile a constant saying. Saying is debatable for anyone. But yeah, she's been She's the best thing that ever happened to me, Like my best friend for sure, Like if I was needed a kidney but yeah, yeah, yeah, she um but been good luck. Now he said he would do it because I do think it's a good idea to do a male perspective of women who are in the industry and the guys who aren't. I think that will be interesting. I think it would be lovely. I'd love you to have him on. I just don't know what he's gonna say. It might be we landed a plane on a river. You won't talk about it yet. That's that's true. I would love for me to get into I would I'll play the whole thing. Would be a special on our show if you put because I know Ben but I know him, it's I would give you an example of who's an artist that I would use Dirk's. I'm close to Dirk's and there are certain things I know. I wouldn't ask them that if I wasn't close to him, I would ask him because I would not know the answer. I don't mean it in a bad way, but even like there's you become friends with someone and you know all the things around, and so you just you have to handle someone you know really well, oftentimes more so than someone you don't, because people you don't they know you don't know. You're just asking because you're curious. But if you know, like the hot spots or whatever, Yeah, and you go right for it. And if you go for someone talks about they know you don't know, they're like, oh, they had no idea. You go right for hot spots. No I used to three or four years ago. At this point though, there's only about one person that interviews better than me. And I know people how I know you're going to say that, But he goes for he's not scared to like ask anything all the time hot spots. Yeah, but he won't. He won't bring him in and go right to it. Will poke them right in their butt hole with a question. He used to and I used to get headline chase, not at all. I found that get in trusted people when they come in as much more valuable to me than headline honey, because most people just give me something. It's turned into the point now where I think people coming in they want to do a good job more so now than being like, oh, I'm going to be interviewed, and so a lot of people will come in with with really fantastic either things to say or like, oh, we should work up this cool performance we've never done before on the show. I think that's where the switches kind of happened for me. But no, I don't have I don't go to hot spotes. I don't have to. I've just I'm researched and I talked to people like humans. I get curious about odd things, and I was like, how about that? Okay, so I'm curious, what are your goals now that you've done so many things. I mean, I like to have a talk show. Do you have a talk show? I'd like to have a television talk show, but I don't want a late night that same formula talk show. Um. You know, I have a deal with ABC right now for another We'll see if I get brought back to get back to Idole. May like that. Yeah, I love the people that I worked with an ABC. The hours were brutal at times on Idol, where I would go for fourteen hours or so. Yeah, that's a day. And the traveling back and forth. When I was a Dancing with Stars i lived there. That was a whole different that was a different difficulty going. Sometimes I would go there and back in the same day to l a. Oh wow, that's eight hours of traveling in an airplane when you're getting de hydrated. There are people with much worse jobs. And not saying it's the worst thing ever, but it was just a different where are you out? Though? Yeah, I was exhausted when it was over. Um, but yeah, I want to do that and there's a we have a scripted show we're working on with ABC UM that I've been writing, and we'll see how it goes. Most scripted shows don't don't get picked up, but obviously give us a bunch of money to make one. How about yours will get picked up? We'll see. I mean, I'm in it. I'm the lead actor too, So like would it be like I'm not saying anything, but like it would it be like in the same kind of family is like a third rock from the Third Rock from the Sun that come but John let go. Yeah, I don't know why I picked that one, Like a friend sipe thing. I'm not gonna say anything that kind of scripted. It's scripted. It's scripted. Oh maybe like a like the Honeymooners kind of reference to that to be visited. So I think that for me, you know, I've been offered a lot of pretty cool shows that I've said no to and which could be a mistake, but I'm always I just want to hold out for something that I really think it's cool, more cell than stuffing I think is pretty cool. And so there's one show that I had to turn down that I really thought would be fun it just didn't time out for me. Right there, Nashville Squares, which is like Hollywood Squares, but they're doing a they tape it in like a month or so, and they asked me to host that like four or five months ago, and I had to say no because it was at the same time as Idol or something. They did correspond a bit um correspond They did conflict a bit um, but I could have done it, but there was another couple of things that on the back side, so I'd say no, And I thought that had been a fun show to do. I loved Hollywood Squares, so it's been cool to be able to turn things down to honestly, yeah, because I'm not begging for everything all that, because I begged until like a two years ago. I begged for everything. I would go to Los Angeles and just begged get meetings. I would call people, I'd say, I'm gonna be town. If anything falls through, please let me come into Like I did that for five years and sending my own money flying back and forth, just begging for meetings, not even for auditions, just meetings that would get me into rooms. It's funny how quickly you've become an overnight success. Yeah, it all kind of happens fast though, like it takes forever maybe, But then when it happens, like you hit your stride and I feel like it's snowballs. Well. One, it's like with anything else, when one person believes in you, other people go, oh wait, what am I missing? Why? Why? Why should I be believing in them? So it just takes like that one person, and so taking me about fifteen years to be an overnight success. And so I'm not. I don't eve feel like I'm a success. But on that side of some TV stuff that I want to do, the radio shows just continues to oddly get bigger. Why do you think that is? What do you think it is that people love so much about the show? A couple of things? Okay, Well, one, we don't sound like the other radio shows because we're not. We were never good enough early on to do be good at that. I wasn't. I couldn't do the big voice. I would have been a d J DJ. And if you're just introducing songs now and DJ in the middays after, when you're done, you have a couple of years left and it's over. Thank check out, goodnight, um I would have been that if I could have, so it just wasn't good enough. I have a good enough voice. So I was like, well, I guess I should try to just be me and be really vulnerable on the air and not be embarrassed. And I think people have just connected to and I'm polar like I'm either super insecure, like super insecure or super arrogant. And I don't have an odd oh everything my love life that I'm gonna be uh, you know, back living, not having three meals a day, all of that, you don't that doesn't leave you because that's that's just that's always who I'm going to be. I'm wired. I have a nice place now, I got I got a franking pool, and I feel guilty about having a pool. What makes you feel arrogant? Well, I know I'm really good at some things, and I'm not afraid to say that either. I think that's great. Yeah, but to some people that comes off as arrogance. So I don't really don't have a middle. It's like I'm either super insecure or I just know I'm really good at it. What what would you say your middle is that? When are you in your middle? I don't try to stand places that are my middle. I like to stay in places where I'm really bad and I can grow. Or I like to be in playing I'm really good. You're never just content? Oh no, no, I don't. I wish I have to go back. I need to go back to therapy. How do you find peace? I should go to sleep, really and I have trouble sleeping, but that's the only time I'm not going hundred miles an hour. Do you long for peace, yes, A long for a partner right now. But do you think you have time for a partner. I think yeah, I've made a conscious effort to allow time to start looking for a partner. Okay, And you're going to prioritize that. I absolutely have already prioritized dating a bit. That's great. Are you like wanting someone forever or is it just like you're a seasonal dater, like you want someone for a season, or you look you're ready, You're going to the distance. I'm ready to start investing in long term and if it turns out it's a stealing angels and I got to move on. Yeah every day, but I'm not jumping in with somebody now. My I'm thirty nine. I'm probably in part of my life, I'm like a hundred year old. I got a lot of maturity but something. But in some I'm like a thirteen year old. Like in my because I just never was a relationship. I was like, I gotta work, work, work, work, work work. I need to have two months so when I lose my job, I can pay my lugtry bill for two months. Do you think you're ever gonna get over that and know that you're always going to have a job. I will never get over it, but I now understand that it's a thing, and I think going to therapy has allowed me to look back at it and went to therapy forever. I just stopped when I start doing it with stars because I didn't have time anymore. How did you decided to to therapy? It was all my insurance When I was twenty seven. I was like, therapy, So you've always gone since you've been twenty six? Yeah, like mid late twenties, and it was like I was like therapy. Who And I can say, you don't go to therapy when you're broke, You don't go to therapy. You're just trying to Ford Hamburger help. Are you ain't trying to go to the therapy, yeah, or money is covered in insurance and as a ten dollar cope. And so I started to go and I was like, Oh, here's somebody who doesn't have a vested interest in me, because now I even feel like everybody wants me for something. What have would have been the biggest things that you've learned from therapy two? That it's okay that you're not all together on one piece because and you're not broken, because if everyone is broken, then nobody's broken because we're all broken. And if we're all broken, aren't we all just we're just different puzzles more than we think people were, like there were some people who weren't broken, Like did you have people on I did think that until I think, again, this is gonna sound a little bit arrogant, until I whatever this notoriety slash fame is. And I used to think when I would see all these super famous people and be like, oh, they got their crap together. Once I kind of crossed the threshold of okay, I have a little bit of notoriety. Now, I maybe worse than I was before. And I would start to see some of people that have become my friends that were famous and go, oh, yeah, they're messed up too, And then I would just get to see the other side of it and go, it's like Oz, you went behind the curtain. So yeah, And then I realized, Um, nobody's actually no, nobody is put together, and if everyone's broken, then nobody's broken. We're all just different. Was that like a freedom feeling for you? It allowed me to look at my issues and go, Okay, I can step back and see that it's an issue and I can better handle it because I'm never gonna handle it right because there's not a right. And sometimes I had a friend with my comfort with my friend Nicki Glazer was a comedian and she was she just did a special on Netflix special and she was like, I know I'm gonna break down like five times. I said, that's great. You know you're gonna break down five times? When you know when you break down time one, two, three, four, and five. Go oh, I knew this was coming. I'm not absolutely nuts. I can prepare for what I am how I'm wired, So you should be okay with that. So when you do break down, don't think you're freaking nuts. Now, if you're doing it nine times, you probably need to pull somebody in. But if you know that what you're prone to do is break down a few times, that's okay. You can actually live within it because this is you and this is how you're wired. And so when I started to go, okay, these are my issues, Um, I wouldn't even call them faults so much. Then I like when I just said, I know, I'm always gonna be the person that goes. I wonder if I'll be able to afford, you know, to pay the mortgage in my house, or but I can step back and go, that is ridiculous. Just identify it now that it's like it's a one of your false lives that you've told yourself. You can go, that's ridiculous. And so even though I feel that way still, I can go back and see it and kind of talk to it, take it down. So that's what therapy did for me. That's wonderful. And I had a voice that she didn't give a crap, she can get a crap about me. She would just give it just unbiased opinions about what and it was also an opinion. But therapy was great for me. And even with girls, I would be like I don't know, and you know, she'd be like, hey, why don't you just do this or do that? It was good, Yeah, you know what. I have learned that because I sort of had the same thing, Like I used to think all these people were on pedestals and like some people had it really figured out and I struggled with a lot of self worth issues before I kind of I did a lot of therapy. Also, Um, I have realized that nobody cares about me. Like I used to think everyone was like sitting here analyzing my life and taking this big long inventory and I'd walk into a room and they'd be like, oh my god, Caroline, Da da da da, But like, really, no one even cares. So now I have just decided that I know I put out good energy. I know I want the best for other people. If I have made a mistake, I'm so sorry, but it was totally unintentional, and if you like talk to me about it, I will like absolutely claim my part. I'll say I'm sorry. So I just have liked And now I just walk into the room and I'm like, I assume the best about myself and everyone else, and I just always try to do that because before I would walk in, I just thought everyone and had it was like because I kind of Nicole said the podcast with her, she was like, we keep a list of our failures, you know, like I know all the things that I feel like I suck at. And then like people would think I was a crappy person for but no one else even like knows that or cares and because they're so wrapped up in themselves. Yeah. Um. In my my last book, I wrote all chapter on that where and I started it with I went to a yoga class, and I knew everyone was looking at me because I sucked. I've never been to hot yoga class, and I knew that I was so bad. I was gonna be on the cover of uh Yoga illustrated as the worst yogi ever. And I had even had my glasses on the first time, and you don't wear your glasses because they fogg up. I did everything wrong and I wasn't ever gonna go back. Everyone was looking at me, talking about me. They're gonna tell everybody, so I was never gonna go back again. We're gonna go viral. Then I realized I had a three pack, and I was like, oh, I can't let those two go to waste, and I went back and I was a little better the second time. By the third time, I realized there were also the people that have never been before, and they sucked. I didn't even look at them because you were so I was trying to do my deal, and so I wrote about that. It's kind of that same road that but I lead it with that analogy was always watching you do yoga, nobody cares what it cares about you. You're downward dog. Now do it until you get it right. And and if anybody's watching, who cares? Anyway? Who cares? And also another thing I've learned from getting to do podcasts and interviews kind of how you were talking, people have so many of their own issues going on, and like you can like see someone and they might might be like, God, that person is sort of an asshole, but really they can have so many internal things going on, like big things that aren't even career wise, like life stuff, and that just I have realized every single person I've ever talked to on an end depth level has something going on that they are thinking about constantly, and they just might be on their own world because some sort of thing is happening with them right now. Yeah, you never know what someone else is going through or has been through or it is about to hit, right, and it's always something. Yeah, it's a it's a whole thing. Great though, you've done all that work and like you're you're aware of all that for yourself to just for peace of mind. Level two is aware. Level three is actually like fixing it. But yeah, I would like to have somebody. Yeah, just well, not that you're making space for it. I'm sure you will, m but don't be so sure. Well, don't have that attitude. Don't be so sure. Don't you're cursing it already. You can't. You can't do that. You have to go in with a good open mind. Oh I did, didn't I didn't I message you about don't say, but a girl, So, um, how's it going? Well? Terrible? Oh no, really, well they're not terrible. But I like hit her up and then she hit me back, and then I was like, because there's with me. It's like no, this is not let's not take around. I was like, hey, why don't we to get together. It's good to lunch something, I'll be it, and then gone, yeah, and I was like well I'm a number. I don't care though, I'll go I have no shame anymore. I will send Instagram messages to the biggest celebrity or just a random person. I'll just d and be like, hey, what up. Nine times out of tide they don't hit you back, but that one time when they think that you're Bobby flag because you have a blue check mark in your bobby sometimes you can turn that into you know, something cool. It just takes one that's right, that's likes it. It's all it is, I mean, and it's like, you know, that's My sister used to tell me that she was like all to just don't get all discouraged in this dating game because it's just like one. All you do is to need one person, and once you meet that person, it will just it all makes sense. Although I am thirty nine now, but you've also been super busy in your career. Yes, but I'm still thirty nine, so it kind of closes the window a bit. Like I went out with a girl who was twenty two and not on purpose, but I felt like that was a little too much. It might be a big just like she hit me up. I needed a date to a wedding and I knew her, and I was like, okay, cool, let's go. I didn't go with him again, but I was like, I don't think I want just like life experience, maybe like conversation. But to be fair, I might be like nineteen in my my relationship. It's true, how how will you find out? I guess just trial and error. Let me just date them all year old. Maybe don't do an age no date at eighteen year Let me say this, Laney Hayes, who's Walker Hayes is wife and it is the best And I know Walker and Laney. They come to the house like they've been to the house. Like that's and that's rare for me to have people over to the house. But like I'm big fans and friends of them in general. She's gonna be on an upcoming episode and depending on depending when you hear this, you could already be out um so um. I don't have a clip of that yet, right, but I do have a clip of Walker doing a freestyle Friday about the episode The Warriors to School. Drake was on the sideline acting lack of fool. Thomas Stratt dropped a new album on the World and Bobby Bone has played my new song about my girl Slioky had a baby Godzilla wis fly spelling beat in the in an eight way. Laney did the first podcast Everybody Yep, she got Real with Caroline Hobby. It drops you in tenth So save the date, happy but lady free stuff frid Day. There you go. So whatever whatever the date is today right when you listen to this June tenth, the new Laney Hayes podcast, I Would Stay. That is probably the most emotional episode I've ever done, because they lost their seventh child and childbirth and she almost died as well. And it's just like she was really raw and honest about it and talked about it and she was crying. It made me cry, like she the fact that she was willing to share that, it's just, um, it's really it's really emotional and it's really amazing that she's willing to be so vulnerable. And that's something I learned about them is they want to use their life to heal others, and they're like, if we don't share this story. When they were going through it, they were looking for people to relate to. She's like, it's a club you never want to be in. But when you're in the club, you're so glad there's other people there for support. So it's just like you just want to be there for anyone else who's going through something like this. And I was like, God, these are amazing people. Remember that night it was I think sant Awards last year. He was going to perform the next day yet have been on the sant Awards. Who supposed to perform and it got it got a text like hey, I ain't gonna not gonna make it. Then all it all went bad? Uh yeah, So check that episode out and check out the Get Real podcast with Caroline Hobby or is that called her Jen Hobby the combination of Jan and Caroline um And by the way, speaking of Runaway June, you wrote two songs on Runaway UN's upcoming album, Yeah, like are you I know their first single which was Lipstick Lipstick? Yeah, we have a clip of that here here you go. Did you make your money off that song? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe probably. Do you want all your own publishing? Uh? I ne even know? Things? Which the title tracks Blue Roses, which is that it's unreleased there's no clip yet, but is something else that it's like, it is so beautiful. It's such a beautiful song. Well, we have no clips, we have no way to trust. We're just gonna trust. Do you tell them the the truth? It is and run away? June is so good like Naomi's voice, she asked to me, one of the best voices I've ever heard. I love her voice so much. And Jen and Hannah are amazing. It's just I think I think they're great. I really think they're just one of the best girl artists situations happening out there. I mean, I'm also biased. I like them, what, but they really are so talented all the things you said, I agree with your biased. They are great. All of that episode one an you want Caroline Hobby check out do you Get Real? Podcast with Caroline Hobby Honest women on his talk How long we go? Mike almost one? Ten? Who who? It's a long one. Usually I shut them down about a minute one. I'm like, all right, that's all. We'll see you next week. Alright, Uh, we'll see you next time. Thanks Caroline, going to see you. Hey, thanks for having me. Um, good luck to that baby. Thank you all right,