Batman with Riley Silverman

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Speaker 1: On thee cast, the questions asked if movies have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy and best start changing it with the bel cast. Hi, welcome to the bec dol Cast. I'm Jamie Loftus, I'm Caitlin Toronto and where your hosts we are? That was really close? Yeah, that wait close to what being to the normal intro. I think you actually say you know, I'm your Well usually you say I'm your first host, and then I have to say I'm your second host, and that makes never good. That's happened at least twice. I don't say or I say or maybe I'm just I'm like, i'm your projectives. Yeah, that's what happens. I just say I'm your host, Caitlin, and then you say I'm your other host and get really insecure at the top of every episode and then dial back for the remainder of the episode like you're too hard on yourself. Hopefully that doesn't happen time around. James Jasper great and I like you so much. I just wish people would tell me that all the time. Oh, text you at least once a day with those every uh. Well, just to give you an idea of what this podcast is about. If you haven't listened to any other episodes, which you should do, but if you haven't, we talk about the portrayal of female characters in movies and going off the Bechtel. That's Alison Bechdel. She has a test, and we, uh, look up the test. Look it up, guys, just look up. There's a whole internet out there with information. I like that when we say look up the test long enough to have actually explained the test, I know I'll get there. Get there, we will, and let's without let's not stall any longer. How about we introduce our guests this week. I'm excited. Yeah, she is a median and a very funny person. Riley Silverman, thanks for having me, Thanks for being here. I'm a comedian and a very funny person. Yes, right, because sometimes those two things are not true. That is very true. I know a lot of comedians who are not funny, and I know a lot of funny people who are not comedians. So both you are both. Congratulations. That a rarity, a true because sometimes you're just exactly like sometimes you're just a comedian and associopath, But you're not funny. That happens a lot in today's movie. Actually it's true that was I was foreshadowing. Yes, good job, I wasn't sub tweeting. And speaking of that movie, we are talking about Tim Burton's Batman from nineteen nine, uh Riley, when like, what was the first time you saw this movie or what's like your relationship to this movie. I have a weird, complicated history of this movie because I did see it when it came out because I was I was people thought I was a boy, and uh, I was a I was a nerd and so like a superhero movie coming out was like right up my alley, like it was. It was huge, and I was obsessed with Batman at that point in time, and I you know, because that's what was there. And at that point, my only real major experience of Batman had been the nineteen sixties six TV series, which is like, so can't be in at the top. Yeah, And so then I had a few comics and stuff like that, but like not a lot. And I remember this movie came out and then also I was struggling at my gender identity and there was a cracked magazine parody of Batman. That was like, because I did the movie comic parody every time movie would come out, because that name was everywhere. And there is a scene in this movie where um, Vicky Vale gets let into the bat Cave and like, we'll talk about that more later, I'm sure, but like, um, in the comic, they kind of slimmed that down a little bit and they just had Bruce kind of like come out to Vicky as being Batman, which is a scene in the movie as well, but doesn't happen, but in the in the comic, he like steps out and he's in the bath suit and he's like, I something to tell you whatever, And she's like, oh, you're a transvestite, And like, I I am a transgender woman. I'm not transvestite. It's not a word that I used anymore, but it was the very first word that I ever heard to describe anyone of like a variant general identity. So it's like this weird thing. And I remember I had a babysitter and I was reading this crap comic and I remember asking my babysitter like, what is it? What does transvestite mean? And she was like, Oh, it's a term for like men who dressed up like women because they want to be women. And I said, oh, that's what I am. Like, that's like a thing that happened and like my childhood, and I remember like freaking out my so like you can't tell your parents told you. But that means like he's gonna be like like she didn't know because she's a teenager who's like just being paid like a couple bucks an hour to watch HBO at my house. Um, but yeah, that's that's like so Batman has always been this weird like tie into my coming out. And I was talking to Caitlin off Mike before you got here, Jamie about how there's also an episode of the Batman animated series where Poison Ivy and Hardly Quinn having a girl's night out in the town and I remember that being like my first film slash, Like yeah, like I've been obsessed with that episodes ever since. It's like my like first like in my like baby Riley, queer girl like like lesbian pairs like like like fan fick in my And it's actually now in the comics a little actually kind of made a cannon. Those two are actually are a couple and it's like my like, someone just like channeled my childhood into pages and made it a thing. I love it. Yeah, everything is connected. I used to my did you have like cartoons that you wanted to make out when you were younger? Nothing comes to mind, but I think you're lying. I know if I had, I wish I had something to say, because what kind of a nerd are you that you don't have cartoon makeout fantasies? Um, yeah, that was ironic. Actually I was. I was not actually calling you a nerd. I hope and and Nanchell. I don't want their cousin. And here's the thing. I didn't watch the many cartoons as a kid because well, one we didn't have cable. I didn't have cable growing up, so I did have like Nickelodeon or Disney or anything like that. I did watch Gargoyles a lot. That was pretty good, but I don't remember watching that many cartoons. I was like, I don't even know what I watched. I watched the movies that I still love now, like Indiana Jones and Back to the Future. I wasn't watching a bunch of kid cartoons. And I think that's why I hate children, and I directed towards children because I just never watched because it's anything that's not children, it's Indiana Jones. Those are definitely not hate kids, hate time travel and adventures only. No, I'm saying, well, those are things that, yeah, exactly can enjoy those things. Also, I'm just saying I didn't watch things that were only for a children audience that mine were dug In Skeeter, I actually didn't watch. I wanted them to be together. That's what I wanted really bad. I can like summon what I used to think about. Just them kissing on a bench, like a very specific bench, and they were listening to the beats. Does the band from Doug is dug in his crown man outfit, like it's like a kinky thing that would be tight, that would be like an episode of You were like underwear on the outside of his hands on his forehead, put my put your hands down my underwear and he's like, which pair? It's It's great, It's now now I've got to go home and watch if anyone, if anyone listening to the podcast wants to draw me some duck In Skeeter scissoring, I can. I'm gonna look up. I think there's got to be Like they're perfect. They compliment each other in every way. That's why they're best friends. And like they've got different body ties but not like to like I'm just like that very long. He's like he does have Like I didn't realize until like years later that like the idea was supposed to be kind of that, like they were supposed to be like an interracial thing, like like a person of color, because he's drawn green, Like I didn't get that that whole year, like any It's it's weird because Doug is white. His whole family is white, and then the rest of the characters are just like various colors. Because Patty wasn't Patty many his orange ish she was maybe he wasn't supposed to be and I just erased us now like he was. And then Roger the bully was like neon green. Last I think I can't find anything of Skeeter and Dug together, but I'm finding a whole lot of Dug and Roger stuff so much like it's like yer one, this is very sweet. They're so in love. Uh well, this episode is now about and no longer about that. Man, I can't believe that there's no dug In Skinner. That was a frozen cursory question. Jamie does and animations and I have like a series of people I would like to see scissor scissors. You should it? So how much would I have to pay you for it? For freezies? So it's just fun for me to do. I literally I have the Batman animated Serious Poison, Ivy Harley Quinn, and I actually the fun Co Pops And when I got them, I actually like posted them might be ever kissing. It's like a picture of it, yes, five years old. Yes, And I'm kiggling. I'm literally giggling. I don't like, but like, I just love it so funny, like ridiculous, Like oh my god, this is like sending a letter back to my chop. Oh my favorite one I made uh is for okay? And then I promise we'll talk about Batman. I'm trying to bring it about me. I'm just not bringing it to about me in the movie. I'm actively bringing it away over and over. My favorite scissoring one that I would direct everyone too is young Henry Kissinger, an old I think I remember that one that was a custom one for Josh Andraski, and yeah, because that's what he would want. It's what he'd want. Well, look it is it like on where can people find it? I'll post it on our Twitter concrete. Jamie, What is your history with this movie? Have you seen it before? Guess no? No, I watched it today. As with every movie we've ever done, I watched it today. I liked it. I thought it was great. Yeah, it was. It's so much fun. It felt like July when I was watching it. I was a summer baffled. It was well, and did not like Mad Max fury Road my brain Mad Max fury Road. I I'm triggered. I don't talk about Mad Max fury Road. I'll never bring it up again. But I did not spatman. Okay, that's interesting, all right, we will talk about it. Because so I saw this movie for the first time. I think I was in college. I was probably like nineteen or twenty UM, which is about ten years ago. Because I'm not afraid to reveal my age. Yeah, I'm an aging woman in Hollywood. So what Well. Sorry, I don't know why I started yelling, but I saw a calm down. I know you can get so upset about things like, you know, I'm just getting so emotional because of all of my hormones just going haywire because I'm reaching menopause or whatever. I don't know anyway, what is aging? Does it work? Time doesn't? Is a construct and life is meaningless? Any who do no life has meaning, and uh so does this podcast. So I've seen to maybe probably four times, and each time I watch it I like it less and less. Well that's it. It's it's not a good movie for women, certainly not. I think it was a fun movie. I don't like it. I remember liking it when I was a kid, just because like, oh is that man like it could have been It really could have been Batman like like fighting City Hall over like some sort of parking ticket. But if it was Batman, like that man's in a movie and stuff like, I don't think that I got any of what is actually happening movie when I was a kid, And then I probably watched a couple of times when I was like a teenager, but not in a long time, and I was like not prepared for how much of it was, Like, oh my god, I can't be up this movie. I think what happened for me, it's so weird, but I'm on board. I like it. I mean I liked it at the time and it's still not bad. I mean I have it on DVD, so I liked it enough to buy it. But um, I think what happened for me is that I saw Christopher Nolan's trilogy and especially Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. I just like those movies much more then I think they're fantastic. Yeah, I love them. I like the Joel Schumaker. Oh god, you've seen those ones and not Tim Burton's. Okay, But the thing is, I love Joel Schumacher. Like when I was growing up, if anyone he's one of the worst favorite director, I'd be like, I'm a Schumacher Man of the opportunities. But did he Yes, he did, of course he did. I want to get on board here like in Schumacher. But you keep saying movies that should not argue for Joel Schumacher has directed only bad movies that I have enjoyed. That's like if someone who's like, oh, I like I like in My Chiama, What do you love? Oh? I love the Happening, Like that's the Lost Boys. Yeah, that's that's that's a movie that if you had said that, I would not have made fun of you for it. But you also made Phone Booth. He made great flat liars. I like Flowers. He make the fanom of the Offers his best movie. He had a guitar solos to Andrew lid Webber. That's fun. Also Patrick Wilson and Anything. To be fair, I think Fantom itself is like an overrated show and so like the movie also is like it like takes like somehow to just show that that gets really boring about halfway through it and made it even more boring somehow it is. I mean it is a boring I'm very attached to it because I used to sneak out of my house and then put on like goth clothes and go see the fan with Actually, what I'm getting from this, you're like a fan of the opera and Batman is You love movies that people have been horribly disfigured in the face, like that is your thing, love funked up face, and you should have loved Fury, wrote I should have, But it was the most boring movie I've ever seen in my life. All Right, I was saying off Mike, but I do like Batman Robin is a bad movie that it's badly made and badly acted except for Uma Thermous Poison Ivy, and she just like knocked out the park to the point where she's like, I think there's a lot of people in movies that are always like, very aware the movie. Everyone everyone else isn't. And I feel like she's an example of that. The famous most famous when everyone thinks of his junior girl shown me in the Show Girls, like she just knows exactly what she's doing there. And I feel like even speaking of Batman, the newest, the Batman Versus Sperman movie, a lot of people didn't like Jessie Eisenberg, but I loved him because I feel like it's only one came to set every day. I was like, we're literally making a movie called Batman or Superman. I'm not going to torn it down at all. Ever, the entire movie, I didn't see it, neither did I. He as Lex Luther and that, yeah, I got it. I've got a picture pulled up here of an almost shirtless Joel Shoemaker gro that's just wikipedia picture. It's all he would have wanted it I'm still alive. I'm gonna just keep this sorry episode on track as best I can't Batman because Batman is so like it's it's such a far reaching thing. It's not just like one movie, but it is. Yeah, this movie is the movie itself deserved we talked about. So the tricky thing about an episode like this is we are basically isolating Batman to this one movie. And like I was saying before, I'm not um super familiar with any of the comic books or any everything I know about Batman. I know from the like seven Batman movies that I've seen, So sorry to all you Batman super fans, I'll probably get some things wrong about stuff, but and also grow up up. We're also like I'm not even I mean, I'm just getting back into comics after a very long hiatus. But it feels like DC resets their continuity on a pretty regular basis. So I feel like if someone's like I thought how things worked, It's like, Okay, well, what deck are you talking about? Because a lot of things change the work. I like that that makes it easy for um. As per usual, I will give a very terrible recap of the story at no one's request, and as usual, I will interrupt it a lot. I can't wait, okay, uh silently and say nothing. No, you can contribute. I love interrupted. I wrote a really fast This is going to go really fast. Okay. So there's a a Batman, but we don't sure he's real. They're like, there's a Batman. There's Batman, but we don't know if he's really are not, and the bad guys are just kind of scared of him but kind of not. And then he's like, no, it's me. I am Batman. Tell all your friends. And meanwhile they're in the city of Gotham, in Gotham City, Gotham City, got it and there and the all the politics are trying to crack down on crime because they're a bunch of white guys. One of them is not a white guy, Harvey turns White fort Man Forever, but he is a black man in this film. Yes, so hey, good for them, District attorney. He uh. They're trying to crack down on crime and specifically go after this mob boss named Grisome and he has this right hand man named Jack Napier. But he's trying to get rid of Jack because they're like f and the same woman. So they go to this chemical plant and Jack falls into this vat of acid. It's like a corrupt cop who's working for Grisome who tries to kill Jack, and then Batman drops Jack. Yeah, and then he becomes the Joker because his skin gets all bleached and his hair turns green and he has a different personality. He has nerve damage on his face that puts him in a perpetual crazy grin. Yeah, so now he's the Joker. And then there's also this lady named Vicky Vay and she's like, yo, I'm a photographer. I'm trying to snap some photos of Batman. So hey, journalist friend named knocks, let's try to win a political away. Oh the kind of hell out of me? Um? And then she starts dating Bruce Wayne and then other stuff happens. That's pretty much like the first act. Then the Jokers like I'm bad and Batman's like, no, I'm gonna get you. And then yeah, that's one thing like jokers. I know you're like a photographer and your famous, but you're like like hot, not want to have you. I love that scene where he first sees a picture of her and he calls her a beast. He's like, this kind of beast can't just be walking around. I was like, oh jeez, wait, who calls the Joker like a little beast but doesn't even proceed it with a sexy adjective. He just straight up consert beast. Towards the end he calls her a beast again. Whenever he's like, oh uh, this is fitting Beauty and the Beast, but if anyone else calls you be still rip out their lungs. It was hilarious because he was trying to call himself beauty. Hey, guys, listen to our Beauty and the Beast episode. That was a fun one. Yeah, we've done what like ten episodes not I've seen one movie. Oh. The Joker's plot that he's doing is he has hidden these chemicals in cosmetics around the city that when they're combined to make a person laugh themselves to death and also get the same nerve damage that he got him faced body being cut. But somehow they're all it's the chemical smile x. But he also livings like an art project, seas an art banksy. I like the scene where he throws paint on the other art and dances Prince remember the kid loving that scene like I remember, not like I remember, Like I think he was so much fun. And I love the idea of like going to an art gallery and ruining people's words. I loved it today. It's like what if you and your friends just like when with your own song and just ruined priceless Heart. He loves causing havoc to music, like that's his whole thing in this movie. Like does this scene earlier on when he kills Griss some Jack Palance's character, he like like suddenly does like circus music playing. He's like firing his gun, but like he's both shooting directly at him but also at every other inch of the room, just like it's like dancing, does not throw the gun over his shoulder. So that's the story. That was pretty quick I managed to get it out. I thought I thought Jack Palance was Martin Gen the resemblance. Yeah, yeah, because I was almost like, because I'm like weirdly horny for Martin Gen. I was like, oh, but then it was Jack Palance, Like God damn it. I wanted I wanted the president, not the guy from City Sluckers exactly. I wanted president part like I don't want a guy's going to remissus amy his name at the Academy war. No, I don't want Charlie Sheen's Daddio. I think of him as Amelio Esteves's dad. I want to be their step mom. Cute. That would be such a good mommy to hey, Charlie Amelia. There's another. I think there's at least one other brother who's very Oh. No, I think Martin Sheen has a okay the family tree. I always mixed up Martin Sheen wh I was younger. I don't do it so much more about Martin Sheen and Uh, I don't think the guy who's married to UM Captain Sata Jones um Michael Douglas some reason. As a kid, I always thinks I think they had the same haircut, and like I see their old white guys who yeah, they're all Douglas, but they played Yeah, they played the same kind of basic role, but they were different ages. Michael Keaton and Michael Douglas are not the same man, true, although I think Michael this whole real name is Michael Douglas. But he couldn't take that, like because it's made him change it. What else is Michael Keaton. I'm not having Michael Keaton's last name is Douglas. I think so in real life some reason, I in my mind, I always just thought he was like Buster Keaton's grandson or something. In my head, I always assumed that and never looked it up. I could be very wrong. I know the facts, Hey, fake news. I have literally no facts to back up what I just said. I just always assumed that. In my head. I always assumed that clay A Duval was Rapert Duval's daughter, and that is not and to the fact that to the point where I was like telling people, oh, yeah, she's his daughter, and that's not true at all. That's fake fake news. Baby. Oh so his other big thing before that was Mr Mom and Beetlejuice. Okay, he was a huge and he's he's making quite a bit of a comeback and deservedly. Yeah, I've heard the founders great, but yeah, he was like And the thing about him being cast in Batman was it was kind of like a very much like when Ben Affleck was cast. I was like, what, why would you because because he's a comedian and he was like known for his ridiculous comedy roles, and then they're casting him as Bruce Wayne and Batman was like the weird. It was like a very bizarre choice for the time period. But also Tim Burton just seems to only better work with one actor repeatedly. And that's what happened. Like, Oh, I like that. I like Michael Keaton. No, no, I like Johnny Depp. Okay, I'll keep casting him, Like right, there's something to be said for like an aggressively good looking man who insists on playing characters. Anyways, Like that's and it's like, what what strength of spirit you have? You keep Michael Keaton is aggressively attractive. Oh no, But like I feel like I think in his prime he was I think we I mean, not only is he underfractive for his personal life issues as well, but he just became kind of a weird. He didn't getting back to Joel Shoe, I feel that way about Patrick Wilson and fandom of the opera. Patrick Wilson's a very handsome man, but you know, in some movies he's getting his dick chopped off by a very young page boy haircut Ellen Page and then the next year he's love that movie. Oh my god. Anyways, I just wanted to talk about Patrick Wilson go back, well it connects and that he's also a superhero in the Watchman. True, he's a wow, he's like about that Back to Man, We've got Michael Keaton's attractive. He's he's not not unattractive, but I wouldn't He's not convention I think he was considered attractive at the time. I think he was like like Billy crystal fuzz hair that I cannot get. Everyone in this movie has the same haircut and it's confused. I must have been very humid on the set. Every little frizzy what is us? I mean, it's a gag about it later because when the smile like toxin isn't anything, the idea is like no one can use makeup or hair products because they're afraid they're going to be murdered by it. And so because are like they're like like airlifting still airlifting in cosmetics from outside the city. And yeah that he touches all have like horrible boils in their faces, like yeah, at least like the part with the newscasters are are like on on camera looking like how at least they did make the men and women it wasn't like the guys look fine that went because like there was I know I'm probably speaking out the fron at this point, but I noticed, like I feel like women are the only ones who actually die or smile likes in the film, Like unless I'm missing somebody, but I like every victim of smile because like a supermodel or a female newscaster, the two models and then the ya that newscaster woman who dies, and those are the only people, those are the only like on screen as we see there like very obviously they died. Um, speaking of those characters and other characters, like the main ones the women that we have in this film. The main female character is Vicky Vale played by Kim Bay Singer and Alicia Hunt played by a crap I free to name Ry Hall Jerry Hall and she but she was more of a secondary character. Um, she doesn't get a ton of screen time versus uh the main male characters which are Bruce Wayne Ak Batman, Jack Napier a k the Joker, and then the more secondary characters are Lieutenant Eckhart Grissom, the mob Boss, Commissioner Gordon Harvey Dent the reporter, Knox Alfred the servant, man and the Jokers assistant guy like I think, and all the guys who mob worked for Grisham like a hand buzzer. This is an example of a movie where almost everyone on screen is a man. Yeah, because like all of the cops are men, all of the bad guys are men, all of the journalists are men at least, so like it seems as though anyone at least with a job in Gotham City is a man. Yeah. The only women you have, you do have the newscasters. There's two of them because one gets one gets one gets dead and the other one. And it's also a lot of like old ladies in background shots. I noticed that, Like I know, it's like there's like a scene like in the department stores. I mean, it's like a lot of like older like spinster ladies that are all doing their shopping or a lot of they are decent and having a lot of women the crowd scenes. At least I think they were, but I can't be totally wrong. But and then Vicky Vale has a job she does she's doing. I think he's an established photographer. Um. In any case, all of the of the main characters who have like significant roles in the story. Almost all of them are men, and the few women that we do have, well one look exactly alike they are when I was a kid, Land Ladies when I was a kid. The first time I saw it, I definitely got Vicky Vail and Alicia mixed up at first, like until I think, until learned the same scene together, I'm like, oh, I think that was the same. Yeah, that was too confusing. I was like, one can't just have sort of curly hair and they're like the same, very very hot lady, and like, good for them, sure, like they are adapting us from source material that might have also featured mostly white dudes. But the nice thing about adaptations is that you can change things. If you want to update things and make them more like include more types of people, you can do that. And also you really can't even give that one like even that, like oh the adaptation argument because Tim Burton Lee very famously did not really care about the comics and like didn't really read the comics, so he kind of made his own version of Batman and so still made everyone a white dude. Yeah, well he's and he's like he just this even as as of this year, when he made that, um, the school for Unusual children, like he had that that comment that was, like, the story doesn't really call for it, Why would I have it in there? And it's like that because you can just have people existing in the world. No, okay, where was I going? Oh okay, here we go. The first time that we see Vicky Vale, the first time she was introduced, all we see are her legs, because did you know that women are just a collection of their body parts? Have you ever seen the Headless Women of Hollywood blog? No, it's wonderful. It's by a fabulous New York comic named Marcia Bellski and she yeah, she aggregates all like the movie post stars that are just women's Yes, I've seen that dropped camera no face and like, yeah, check it out a gang. She's great and it's there's literally no like limit on the source material. Yeah, it's a spectrum everything cool. So, yeah, we are introduced to her by her legs that are just propped up on the table. Knox goes, hello, legs, uh, and then he says, Oh, if you wanna take news of me, you'll need a long lens, which uh is sexual harassment in the workplace. Yeah, I would say, Box has almost no role in this movie except for to be a guy who objectifies Vicki and like is mad that she's dating Bruce Wayne. Like his only job in the movie is to like criticize her choice of a boyfriend that's not him, Like that's because he's supposed to be, Like there's there's the implication that he's the reporter and she's the photographer. So she has to go to him to look things up because I can't look at computer. That's not how talks. But that's very hard to Quinn actually, But it's weird because like I know that in the comics are like at least later maybe after this movie, but they seem to have turned Vicky Vail into more like an investigative journalist as opposed to be just a photographer. Not that justice bad, but like she but yeah, and so it's like it does feel like they could have just gotten rid of his character entirely, because it's already like a love triangle quote unquote. It's a horrible way to phrase it, because the Joker loves her quote love. He desires her as an object um and Bruce likes her. And so it's like this like weird, like, oh, these two men are after the same woman, even though one of them is made it clear she has no interest in one of them completely. So having Robert will be like the fourth angle of this thing doesn't need to happen at all completely in this booby, Yeah, which is Alfred might Oh oh yeah, I'll make them it's like her grandpa. He also just wanted to like throw in their long focus lens. That's not an accurate photography joke. Oh, I don't know enough about along. I looked it up. But can you also maybe argue that he's an idiot and just thinks he knows what he's talking about, and it's actually making stuff up to say I've got a big whole day. Yeah, I looked it up and brought to make a photo of it. Broadcast News came out in eighty seven, and I actually feel like this was just ripping off the Albert Brooks storyline from Broadcast, because we're going to have a kind of shitty Albert Brooks in this movie. Yeah. Well, like everybody, I think like making her character more of like an investigative journalist would have been a better idea, because one, it makes her more active, because right now. Basically, her role in the story is to be the love interest, because did you know women can only be love interests in stories according to movies like this. But a couple of times she goes took good, took good, and then they try to shoot her. I actually kind I like laughed out loud at that part. I was like, the one time she's actually doing her job, they try to kill and they suppose why they try to kill her because they're actually trying to take Batman's mask off and she's trying to take a picture of his face and then they go kill her. But it's like, why away you would want her to? Okay, yeah, yeah, she was trying to add something to the plot for once. Yeah. Once in a while they try to imply that she does have like an investigative slant to her, but it's like always couched in. She's trying to figure out this guy that she's dating, as opposed to just being like, oh, Bruce Waine, actually it's kind of a weird, dude, I should investigate him. It's always like, why didn't he call me or why did he tell me he was going out of town when he was Actually she stops him for a little bit. Yeah, it's argue it's her job. But also it's like you've got Yeah, it's weird too in this movie because apparently nobody in Gotham remembers Bruce Bruce Wayne's parents being murdered because they like find articles about it and they go, oh, what a weird story of happening his kid, Like really, no one remembers that this super rich family was just gunned down in the streets. At the beginning, no one knows what he looks like, Like she is like, are you Bruce Wayne or you? And I like, he does look like almost every other guy in this movie, but like I was like, he's like a I thought he was a prominent would yeah, his picture would be in the paper or something. They had a party at his house and it looks like and they're not like people who have out of town, Like that'd be one thing, but they're literally both working as for this newspaper in the city. Like really, you don't know who a head sociolite of your city is, like would be one thing. Like in um got Man begins the idea of like Bruce Wayne has been going for a long time and is back in town, so that can even make sense to don't we know what? He looks like he's been going for so long and he's a kid, but this is not the case, and he's like charming. He's not like a recluse, Like he's somebody who has like galas at his house and has an art collection. And Yeah, my favorite part of Vicky Vale doing her job in this movie but also still like being the love interest at the same time is when after she gets those pictures or like maybe gets those pictures and they shoot at her, she calls her editor and she's like of a scoop and he's like is it hot? And she's like laying on her bed and he's like it's real hot. That's a weird scene too, because like that's that That scene happens after Batman has saved her from the Joker attacking her the art gallery and she has some pictures of him and then like he's like, there's one more thing I need from you and he like throws his arm up. Mere. I'm like, he just hit her and he guessed her, like what happens? And then she wakes up on her bed the next day, So I'm like, is there like a deleted scene that we didn't see where they totally did it, and then he like dropped her off or did he just like knock her out and steal her camera. She talks as if she's just come five times, it's real hot. Well, she takes that film and puts it like and stuffs it in her bron to assume and yeah, So either way, he like reached down her shirt and stole and she was probably, I'm guessing, unconscious because she didn't know that it was gone until she woke up and then checked her boobs and she's like, oh, the things that I store in here are missing. Yeah, and she's like the only momentarily annoyed by it, Like a man who was supposed to be the superhero knocked her out, felt her up, and stole her film and had a good reason. And then she's like still on board, like, oh, yeah, we gotta call the police because he has a plant. Like what what? I don't know? Yeah. I do want to point out that if Bruce Wayne Slash Batman did really want to do some good for Gotham study City, he could probably just like spread his wealth around a little bit more and eliminate a lot of the crime. There's a there's a comedian in Santancisi named Askatowski who basically has this whole thing about how like all Bruce Wayne asked to do was open two factories and he could solve all the crime problems in he's like a billionaire, right, like yes, spread the wealth, dude. Yeah, and he literally just has to give like take all the guys who are working as thugs for all these supervillains armies and just give them like nine to five gigs with the health insurance may probably, but he's like mentally ill and he's so he makes up a very complicated I read this very intense Batman theory where it's like the bat Cave is like Batman is actually an Arkham asylum and it's like a fight club thing where he's Batman and the Joker, and it was I hate those things. It was on this podcast with these like really druly sounding men and they were just like a men this and he was insane the whole time. But also it's like, you know, if you're a guy just running around and it cost him any superhero movie, it's like, get over yourself. Yeah, I just hate any fan theory. It's like this isn't really happening at all, or like these are all connected in the same everything. It's like that just like I get it, you're clever. Yeah, it's like just get a job. Grow up up ad this episode, grow up stop, grow up. Like I know, there was one version of the Joker at one point in the comics where like when he thought Batman was dead, he just like gave up crime and sort of living a normal life because he no longer had Batman to like foil against like that. So it's like, oh, Batman is the problem play. The argument in Batman begins in Dark Night is that like because Batman exists, like he helps escalate the crime problem, and then like because he's there, like the criminals escalate as well. I'm like yeah, because like Gordon has the whole thing, Like you got bulletproof vest and then they get arm a piercing guns, and then you got a guy in a suit, and then you got this guy in a clown costume. Like yeah, they're always trying to top each other. Yeah, But so in Batman, um, yeah, it's just like there's always things. I'm like, why is she just okay with this? Like and that's she's getting the better treatment, like as far as women in this film go, and that's not saying a lot. I couldn't believe because I don't like, this wasn't the original movie that I had talked to you about because I was gonna and You're like, well, we should do this because of the timing and everything. Oh, by the way, we are doing this movie right now because the Lego Batman movies coming out. That's why I was like, hey, let's do Batman. And I'm so sorry. I remember like thinking that it was just gonna be devoid of women. That was going to be the problem with it. And then when I started watching it, I hadn't watched it so long. I was like shocked at how much worse it is than that. Like, so we talked about Alicia, the woman that he basically like wins by stealing her from um Christiam is that his name? Christo? Like, he basically like like they're having an affair, and then Chris that's why Grissom like kills him. But then he even acts like when he's killing Grissolm, he like acts like, how dare you make a woman matter enough to kill me? But he literally's like he says, like, you're trying to kill me over a woman, a woman like she's just so objectified. And then because he like kills Gristom, he basically gets to like claim her as his rolls with yeah game, yeah, did you know that you have to keep dating uh, the side piece that you had been sucking before whenever he murders your mob boss boyfriend? Did you know that's how you have to act with your woman? I would love someone to kill someone else over me in an extremely thing for thank you. In her defense as a character, I think that's actually one of the more realistic things that happens in this movie, only because but not in a good way, but like in a psychologically tormented person way, like she's terrified of what Jack is going to do to her, and it's like broken because that's why she like she's afraid to leave him, like and I think it's like he's not just like your standard like garden variety abuser. He's like literally a monster who's come back from the dead. So does she call him daddy at something? He calls himself daddy. He's like daddy so much? Okay, because I got confused because she was covered with the masks. I wasn't even sure who she Yah was. The mask comes off very briefly, and it's horrifying because you also very yeah she is she she starts thinking music of the Night and then um, yeah, so that's like when I was a kid, I don't think I really realized what happened to her face. Like I remember she's wearing the man ask and thinking like she had makeup on or like whatever. And then when I was leading up to it, I go, oh, I think he's been hitting her something. And then it's so much like she has this horrible scar that like he's clearly like like throwing acid on her face or something and like burned her. Like he's always trying to like build up to making two face or something, and he just like through and it's so jarring. All of a sudden, I'm like, this is the movie that I watched when I was like eight. And then the way he casually it says, she jumped out of window. Oh yeah, he's like carrying a broken mask around like an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Yeah, And and he like only talks about her in like like he talks about it, calls her like his masterpiece, like a piece of art that he makes. Like he he's so objectified her that like when she's dead, he's just like mad, but his art is gone like as opposed to But and then like the movie doesn't even show her kill herself, like don't even give her the agency of having her own death on screen. It's literally just like a guy carrying her mask around talking about her to the woman he's trying to bang now like just a sentence of like expos I should have, Like he literally says, he's like, oh, I'm going through a tough time right now. She threw herself out a windows like all cough day for you, baby, baby? What didn't you tell me that in earlier here's a fun thing. The first time or no, I think it's maybe the second time we see her character on screen, Alicia Hunt, she's carrying like six shopping bags because you know, hey, did you know women be shopping? She's just and then the next time we see her she has other shopping bags. She's just always out shopping. And she passes out because she thinks that Jack is dead and he's like, hey, maybe I'm home whatever, and she's like passes out like a really good cartoonish thing. Yeah, that's the other thing. Did you know that women faint all the time because we're delicate little flowers? And I smiling, salt dude. I that all that said, I do really enjoy Jack Nicholson in this movie. He's like, even though his part is as problematic as you can get, he does a great job. He does a good job. And the other thing I really like about this movie is the score it has. Is it an elphan prince? A lot of prints in this movie. There is a lot of prints I've played and guys, real quick, real gu brag. I feel like I mentioned I played the elbo in high school in almost every episode, but we played the theme from The Batman and our spring concert. It's a great name and I had a sucked it up. I was going, so, so if anyone's looking for a nova player in the Los Angeles area, just should men don't play? Yeah? I got my elbow in my car, right, can you get Yeah? I used to play the clarinet. We could be in a band together. We should start a band. I played trump it, but I didn't I never actually learned how to play it, and I would just like sit I would try to. I took lessons, but I never figured it out really, and I would like go to like we'd have like recitals or like band concerts, and I would just sit and like pretend to be playing them because you couldn't tell because I was in the crowd anyway. And then like my mom like one day like kind of figure out that wasn't enjoying it, and she was like, but you sounded a good thing. I'm like, I wasn't actually playing. I was just sitting there pretending to push on the buttons and anyone pay into like if you spent money on the trumpet and the tricky. I wanted to play drums, and they just like kind of assigned you your section, and like I didn't want to just play any random instrument and the drummer. They gave us instruments literally like the sorting hat. Like they would just be like, you know, if you were cute and a little girl, they'd like, you play the flute, or if you're really cute, you played the pickle up what it was weird and then they were like, well girl, and which true but also hurtful at the time. So this movie is interesting. We're talking about the Joker like the Nicholas's performance, because I I had always kind of my head combined this this Joker with like the season Romero Old bat Man Joker as being a little bit less vile and a little bit more just like funny and weird and goofy. But boy, he is a statistic sociopathic monster. Like he is so much darker than I remember him being. And it's interesting because I actually even think he might be a little bit more dark than Heath Ledger's Joker because he ledger Joker is a sociopath and he definitely has he's like I guess maybe he's pretty messed up because does put that bomb in that guy's stomach and he also makes that like that boat try to kill half the people ever, But his thing is so much more psychological mind games and like this like agent of chaos, whereas this Joker feels like he likes to personally inflict harm on specific people and that it's like so much creepy and it's like I actually like research a little bit for this podcast trying to figure out when that became the Joker, because that's I feel like that's establishes who he is now, Like I think the Jared Leto Joker was very much like that, and like they then they made him very abusive to Harley Quinn, and if you look at like even in the old Batman animated series, he's very abusive. And it's it's weird because I know, like he's won't do a lot of evolutions in the comics from being like he started off as a killer, and then he kind of became more of a ridiculous, clowney character, and then around seventies and eighties he went back to being this dark character because the book was getting dark. But it's weird because, like I as a comic fan, I guess maybe like now that I've actually dealt with in real life the ramifications of what like a sociopath does to the people around them, Like I I've I never dealt with somebody who's like cutting into somebody or like but like psychologically tormenting people. And it has so much harder to enjoy a movie now where someone's like really over the top doing it because I'm like, oh God, this brings up a lot of thoughts about yeah, not even like I mean it's a little it's not even like a full on trigger it's just more like, oh, I don't want I don't I can't escape in this anymore. It's like yeah, yeah, you're like, this isn't fun to watch. This just reminds me of things that I didn't like. Yeah, exactly, Like, oh, I remember a lot of my friends having a really hard time for a while because of things like this like this. Yeah, um, all right, good. I know the other thing I was gonna say, the wonderful trope of a man having to save a woman over and over. Oh my god, she's so much a dams On the stress for someone who should be like she's like a war area photographer, and yes, somehow she can't keep herself right. Oh yeah, I love the scene where he's going through her portfolio. He's like this sucks. This sucks. Oh look a body like I like that. I'm d d is trying to tell you how dark he is. It's so brooding because this was like supposed to be like the greedy Batman reboot, but it's like extremely campy, but everyone is also horny. Like that seems like it's not really like that greedy. Like there's some art deco and everyone wants to funck and like that's dark and I do like the Vicky Vale has sex with Bruce Wayne on the first date. I'm just like, yeah, girl, you can do. You want it, you go get it and no one will think any less of you. Then he kind of blows around, he does treat her like a dick, and and the scene when he like goes to apologize to her and like come out as batman. Uh, this really fun thing happens where she's like calling him out for being a dick and like you lied to me, blah blah blah, and then he pushes her down onto the couch. It's like, I'm just gonna need you to shut up right now, because did you know that when a man needs to express his feelings and be vulnerable, he has to commit an act of domestic abuse. First, He's like all right now and pushed you. I've told you to shut up, I've yelled at you. Now i can tell you that I'm beat and then do it. He like he talks all tough. That's like he has a sudden moment of like machismo and barbado, like I'm gonna push you down and tell you what's up. And then he just like flounders through like you know people that you know when a person is like doing a thing and then you put on paratites and you fight villains and you know, you know, and people do stuff like that. Like it's like something like, why why make you be this dick ish, like domineering guy for a second if you're not even gonna do it? And then she kind of drops it, like she there's like that line where she's like, can't we ever love each other? It was like, grow up, Kim, Vicky, whatever, Okay, oh we haven't. I didn't know if you were like saving this for a special moment. But the scene at the end where you know, Vicky gets a look in her eyes. She's in the Joker's arm and and I'm like, this is her moment. She's going to do something great. And then what she does is almost gives him a blow chump so Batman can whack him. I was like, no, that was your chance. And then she just starts going like yeah, she's like kissing his arms, but she's in shirt and I love purple. And then yeah, like sinks down to like I guess, pretend to start giving him a She's just very gingerly kissing his shirt and you could just tell you was rock hard. Uh No, I was not saving that for special moment. And I'm glad you brought the almost forgot about it. He like falls for it so hard. Yeah, yeah, and then she lunches it and like, I love purple, and he's like A very similar scene happens in Aladdin where Jasmine starts seducing Jafar because she knows that Aladdin is there to again go rescue her, because did you know women can't fend for themselves ever. They always have to be saved as far as kind of hot And it's a it's also like that same mentality that always makes like bad comic artists draw women with like no armor whatsoever. And it's like and they always go, oh, well, there's skindily clad, because that way, in the heat of battle, men will be so turned on with their bodies they won't be able to fight them. Like. It's like that is a frequent argument. Like never you see like a female character who has like exposed chest plate or like just has like like like a push up bram made on a metal or whatever. There's always some argument that it's like, oh, it's designed to distract men, and like everyone's like, you know that need a battle, Like no one's the way thinking about their dicks at that moment, right, Like they're all like pretty like repped up and ready to fight. You're not gonna stop and go, oh, well, I want to have sex best person, so I will stop fighting. Like I'm all for using men's horny nous against them, but the battlefield is not the place. It's probably not gonna work for considering these plots, we have this whole like, oh, in the middle of of you having your victory, I'm going to suddenly seduce you, like like really, he's like holding her hostage in a bell tower after being pursued by Batman, and he's probably like, yeah, I mean your job is to blow me, so let's do it. Like I love you, do love purple, so let's do this. Like like she makes a whole and then Batman says something quickly, dance with the devil in the Pale moon, Like it's just just a creepy thing to be like, oh, hey, here's the thing that you said to my parents when you killed them. I'm gonna say, well, my girlfriend's getting all grandy on you, right, and very like a very long thing to say before you hit someone. He could have, you know, maybe moved. That part of this movie bugs me a lot because it's just like an example of how this is not very good storytelling. Because Joker, I think it's in Vicky Vale's apartment, he's like, do you ever dance with the Devil and the Pale moon Light? As he's like holding a gun to Bruce Wayne, He's like, what did you say? He's like, Oh, it's just something I say to all of my prey. First of all, it's not because we haven't seen this happen on screen yet, so what are you talking about? And then it doesn't do that and doesn't yeah yeah, and then they flashback the one time they said, so the flashback happens after that, uh, and then only then do we realize how that why that is significant. So it's just like, no, you gotta be a better screenwriter, dude, Like, this isn't good story It's also that's one of the things that that's not even from the comics, Like it is not the Joker that killed Bruce Wayne's parents in the comics. That's what I think people were real mad about when they like, did I think for this like movie isolated, it makes sense because otherwise, like what connects Batman and the Joker besides the fact that they're like both horny but not in love with Kim Banzon. But I don't know, Yeah, it's just it's just gross. The Joker also had that like weird long dick gun that he pulled out of his pants at one point, Like that's not a useful weapon. Yeah, I always love that as a kid, though I don't know why I think I wanted that, like and then like I think it doesn't even have the bang flag at the end of it at some point or like yeah, uh, well, back to um, what women are wearing in comic book movies. There are three at least three different times where Vicky Vale is wearing high heels that she has to take off because she's either fleeing or just needing to move about more comfortably. And sure, women can wear whatever they want, but high heels were designed by men and the patriarchy to slow women down. Men want to chase them and assault with them. I'm guessing, and I don't know that that's what happened, but like, these are not sensible rex and heels so let's not act like I'm also wearing my high heeled playboy sneakers. Today's I'm also wearing my high heeled boots. But just like, hey, please attack us. I could, but there's a heel, Well kill it, we are. I just think that if she knows that there's a joker around, maybe wear some more run away for really popular. If you're an investigative photographer, you wouldn't You probably wouldn't wear that. Probably, like I totally get it when she's at the like the Wayne Mansion for the gala and she's wearing her weird prawn dress wedding dress things, yea, the poop sleeves, it's like a white dress, and any other party would be like, you're overdressed, like you look like Glinda the Good Witch. We all. We haven't even talked about my favorite scene, which is when Batman asks Vicky Vale how much she weighs, which that alone does not bother me, because people have this whole thing where it's like, never ask a woman how much you weighs, Never ask a woman how old she is, because that basically just implies that if a woman weighs too much, or if she's too old, she should be ashamed of herself and she should feel shame, which is not true at all obviously. Um, but what bothers me is that after that, after like the whole fight scene, and he comes back around and he's like, oh, you weigh a little bit more than a hundred and eight, which number one, Yeah, most adults do. That would be horrible if she yes to weigh to body shame her for no reason. Uh. And three, if she did lie about her weight, it's only because women have to adhere to such impossible uh standards for beauty. Batman, why don't you take on the patriarchy instead of the joker? Seriously? Again, if you could open two factories and you could also take that, you can open a news network that focuses on when in centric issue, why don't you start a magazine? Bruce? Yeah, so yeah, that that was my favorite thing to happen in the movie. Yeah. It's like sometimes I'm like, do you even like her? Like why are you? You know? He doesn't treat her especially well, either as Batman or as Bruce Wayne. Now, Yeah, like he lies to her, he blows her off, he called like, he calls her fat, Like I was just like, why do you guys, Vicky, come on, you can do better. Seriously, she must because she's not back in the sequel. So true. True. She just finds it off someone someone nice to like and kill Bill whenever she was dating that murder Bill guy. And then she's like, you know what, I'm just going to settle down with this record store owner in Texas. Like well, because she has a baby, right, and you just have to put everything on hold whenever your children can't be an assassin when you have a baby. I like it to have somebody who I like actually killed a lot, but somebody who's like an international assassin. They're like, oh, but I can't read. The kid is one I gets like she like flipped but still Yeah, those were all the things that I uh found interesting, Like the Joker and Batman are like bickering all the time. And it's like a part where he's like, you made me, well you killed my parents, so you made me first, so you made me and then I made It's like this, I'm like, really, no one at the script was like, maybe we should do in our pass in this scene, like let's go ahead and do this again. I could just save some time because the movie is like a little bit too long. It's a little over two hours. Yeah, and then there's no need for that. No, No, although I do the joker is fun when he's not abusing women, like when he's which is that true, not a lot of sociopaths, but like when he comes in and he's like giving out money and like dancing in the street and like like stances. I love him, And I just like like when the when he's dancing the money, like the ideas that he's like taking over this this like bicentennial festival that we go cancel, and I just like there's apparently no actual police force in this city because like he's not he's just rolling down the street with giant balloons handing out money, and no cops are like shooting the balloons or doing anything to stop him. And they don't know there's gas in the balloons yet, so it's like there's actually no, it doesn't make any sense why, Like the whole city is like, yeah, this guy just murdered a bunch of people and it's been terrorizing us, and it's like gone on TV and being like, hey, I'm poisoning all of your beauty products. Watch out for me, but there are six cops on the scene who are willing to shoot it. Thinking yeah, like there they show up at very strange moment. Well those cops are those his weird security guards, I thought, I think I thought there are cops too. I'm like, wait, no, this I maybe it might be his cops. In this movie. There's a bunch of weird like henchmen that it tacked Batman like one just feels like a bunch of flips across the bell tower and loved the flipping. He was cool. Um, but I mean yeah, whenever Jack Nicholson was dancing, I was like, I'm I'm in and then you would, you know, hit a lady and I'd be like, oh this, That's why I don't like this guy. I love a dancing man though. That's why Harley Quinn needs to be a poison ivy and said a junker because uh, I wonder, well, I wonder how lego Batman is kind of fair in terms of its treatment of it, ripped down the enter inequalities of it. As of yet, I haven't seen one that exists in the previous I literally only see Will Arnett's Batman and the Alfred that's like the only characters that seemed to be in the previews, so I got to rewatch the trailer. Is there another female character in the Lego movie besides um? Olivia Wilde's like cool? Like there's the cat unicorn thing? Right? Is that a that? Uh? What's her face? Voices? Who's in community? Alison Bree? Yeah, and it's also like the off screen little sister that has to also be a little play with toys, Like that's the only other I can't think of any other female character. Yeah, let's do the Lego movie next. Have you seen it? I watched it with the baby ones well because all right, none of it my friends. I tried to watch on the plane and I couldn't do it, And then I watched it again later on HBO and I liked it more. But like I think, being right out in front of it on the plane, it was like it was just too fast and like, okay, I can't hand this right now. I can't watch stuff on planes. Yeah, so Batman, Um, does anyone else have any final thoughts or closing words? This movie hates women, like it really does. Like every everyone it dies is a woman, except for like Bruce's a couple of guys in the beginning, like the mob guys who get killed and Bruce's dad, but like everyone the Joker, the guy who gets like burnt to a crisp and like doesn't ever think to maybe take his hand away from Joker's handshake, and he's like, no, I'm just gonna let myself burn to death. He was freaked out. Okay, we're in the Jokers, Like I'm glad you're dead. Yeah, because he killed him, Like we all get that, you're glad you're he's dead, Like why would we not think he was glad that he was dead? Can I read Tim Burton's quote about white people that's bad because it's like, oh, it's really bad, comically bad. Yeah, okay, so this was after the Miss Peregrines. Does anyone see his movie's name or am uh? Nowadays people are talking about it more, it meaning racial equality. But things either call for things or they don't. I remember back when I was a child watching The Brady Bunch and they started to get all politically correct, like okay, let's have an Asian child and a black I used to get more offended by that than just I grew up watching black exploitation movies, and I said that's great. I didn't go like, Okay, there should be more white people in these movies. I was just like, I can't imagine him saying that, first of all, like not stuttering, because that's just like such an insane He's just so sheltered and weird, like congratulations on your easy life. Yeah, someone pointed out and I'm just talking about it when that movie came out. How Like, for as much as Tim Burton like prides himself on being this director who writes about like films, movie about outsiders and unique weird, they're all really just a version of Tim Burton. Like everything. Every sissor Hands literally is tim Burton like with like scissory hands, like weird, I'm weird. What doesn't anyone want to kiss me? He eventually found someone, but because he found well, he had one thing you cheated on and then one that left him. So let's talk about whether or not this movie passes the Petel tests. It doesn't. I don't think there's even a scene where two women with speaking roles are even in the same room together. I don't think so there know that. I think that Vicky and then the girl with the family the Opera phase are both in the same scene. At one point they both speak, but not to each other. What seems that in the art gallery when the Jokers like showing her oh, and she's like, I thought you were going to let me watch you improve your art. Yeah, right, but she only talks to him because I was like, maybe it'll But now it fails. It is a big fat fail. Yeah, it doesn't pass the PACTO test. I bet it doesn't at all. I bet it because which one Batman Forever Batman Up Forever, I think only has one woman, and it has two women that I can think about top of my head. One of them is um Nicole Kidman's character who's like a psychotherapist. And it's also this lady who's like the gossip alumnus for for Gotham, and she's in both bat Man Forever and Batman and Robin and she's like, we're talking to Bruce Wayne. Bruce's God's most eligible bachelor, like that kind of lady. And then um El McPherson is Bruce Wayne's girlfriend in Batman and Robin. And then Uma Thurman is that actually might only because it has bat Girl and poison ivy might be seen where those two are are fighting and talking about it. I think even then, I think that line is the line where like, well, I tell a lady phrases I pulled the pluck. So I think that she's still talking to back girl about Batman and Robbins's shoe. The fan of the operat absolutely passes it. All the ballerinas are chatting all the time about every witch thing. We should talk about very we can. I'm very confused about, Uh, your movie tastes sometimes here's the thing, it's bad. Oh. The way we conclude every episode is to rate the movie in the context of its treatment of female characters, on a scale of zero to five nipples. I'll go first. I give this movie one half of a nipple because uh, and and and it's the nipple from I think George Clooney's costume. Yeah, the shue Locker nip, the Schuemocker nip. So it's that one that movie, Like the nipple and like butt shot bat suit thing. That's the very first set of shots in that movie, like like there's like literally nothing happening, and you just get a bunch of really close up shots of like everything homrotic about their suits. I kind of like that that they're sort of objectifying those men male body parts. There's even like really a shot where they just like they both had their own version of it where they just put their butt towards the camera and like you just like like the it's like it's like a fine butt shot. Nice. I have to I was gonna say, I have to rewatch those, but do I don't know. I think I think if you went on on YouTube you can probably find just that that sequence real quick. Charles also directed Kiss from a Row music video by Seal with great video. Actually, I think that maybe one of the first movies I saw his was Falling Down, which wasn't an interesting premise but not well executed. Yeah you heard it here first falling Down, Jamie. What do you rate this movie on a scale of one to I give it Michael Keaton's left nipple, which I imagine is hairless and has never been hard. So one one nipple. Yeah, okay, how about you? Ring? I think I will give it a nipple half nipple as well, because at least it has women in it and on them one of them has a job. Like those two women that have jobs three because there's three news, there's two newscasters and there's Vicky Vale. So on supermodels they have jobs too, that's but they're not really in it, like they're only in as corpses, so I don't count them like they're literally in it as photos of dead women. And then there's also weird creepy scene with jokers like talking about his products and he has like a pictures of their dead body with the with the mask and we love that joker, which is so creepy. Um So I can't get one than a half nips and I think the nip that I'm gonna go with is um boy whose nipple don't want to give it. I'm wanna give a Billy d Williams nipple because he gets the shaft. And later because the fear beloved Joel Schumacher to size, we can't have Billy the Williams by two face, he has to replace some with with Tommy Lee Jones. He's like, oh, we need a white southern guy to play this. Thank you for calling him my Joel Shippmark. That did feel right, well, Riley, where can people find you online? Follow you on Twitter or stuff like that? Yeah? You can find me on Twitter. I'm at Rice Silverman on Twitter and i am Riley Silverman dot com. And I have a new podcast myself that's coming out. It may not be out by time this episode airs, but it will be soon. And it's called The Puppy Episode. And it is a a podcast that is a retrospective of the Ellen Degenerous sitcom from the nineties where You Kids Gay. So it's three queer ladies talking about what it's like being queer and twenty years later and what it was like when when we were younger in that show came on, and like what it's like since then. So it's it's interesting, I think, and it should be fun to do. You're excited for that. Yeah, that's cool, Jamie. You can find me on the internet at Hamburger Fun. You can find me at Joel Shoemaker's house outside waiting. I want I have to mention. I write for a podcast called International Waters. I always forget to promote because I'm on the podcast, but I write. Yeah. Dave Holmes the host, and it's a it's a interact. It's a international panel show that de picts American comedians versus British comedians and a pop culture about a royale, and I write for it. I'm writing for about nine months and I love writing for it, but I always forget to promote it one one shows, but it's a great show, so listen to it. It's fun twice someoneth. Sorry I mean to interrupt your talk. Um, I oh, I have a cartoon up on Cafe every week as well on They're very funny. Thank you all about scissoring. Thank you. They have been about sin sorry in the past. Um you in Hey, you should follow the Bechdel Cast like and subscribe and so you can rate us on iTunes. We're on also, I think Google now in addition to iTunes, shout out over there and you can email us too if you want, if you have any like, I don't know, questions or comments or contributions. Pictures you drew us, pictures you drew us scissoring together. I was going to say I could make one if you're I've never been more comfortable of anything in my entire life. O um. And you can follow me at Caitlin Toronto, and I think that is it. Riley, thank you so much for being here and talking about Batman with us. And h have a good time. Everyone go see Lego. Batman also thinks panties sponsor us. We need your sponsorship if you want. It's hard. Yeah, I didn't want you said thanks. I thought you said thanks. Pantings. Thanks to underwear for making me not You're there for us, the period panties. Thanks. My closing thing is give Fami in the opera another chance. You will not regret it. Cool. Cool, but