Ep. 295: The Best Value Off-Road Trucks!

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to another fun episode of TFL talking truck's podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back in the studio and we're also live to our Patreon supporters like you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this is episode 295.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got a few interesting things to talk about today, especially because Andre and I had quite the day yesterday.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've finally got around to something that we've been wanting to do, and then a lot of people have been asking us to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got our dozen-a-half on some appropriately sized off-road obstacles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we went to the couch engineering proving grounds here in Colorado, and Jay couch, uh, he's bonkers, but in the best way, at best way possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because we, you know, it took us a while to get our juice on an off-road trail, we decided not to just do that by itself, but instead to compare it to one of J. Couches, many, many Unimogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so Unimog versus Ducina have bobbed truck, so that that video is coming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also on this episode, I think we may have a heated discussion because we are in the
[SPEAKER_01]: for the most affordable full-size off-road truck, which is best value, so not the total bargain basement price, but also has some good gear, good tires, good equipment, and we are, it's not as clear as we thought, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's an interesting question, and I, you know, trying to find a reasonably affordable
[SPEAKER_01]: is hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: But more than just decent, I would say, because you would say any truck with full drive is decent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you draw the line?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another point of discussion, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you need a locker, locking the differential, do you need aggressive tires?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you need
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where do you actually need?
[SPEAKER_02]: Ideally, all of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I might be stuck in 2019 because still the sticker shock can be a little hard to get over.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a little bit more on this show, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: You recently went to Moab in our GMC Canyon AD4X for a little comparison against Tacoma, to your Diofro truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a collab with another channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have some news.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's where you want to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's start with the truck question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So coal, uh, we're that could describe a lot of the podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Afro truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So coal, if you go to like the hemmy hype story, because we're talking about the warlock, so ram is kind of doubling down on their sport, they're called its sport truck category, but really what they mean is afroading, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, they've had the rebel.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've had the RHO, the rumors, and, well, actually more than rumors, of the TRX coming back.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the warlock is a new trim level that they're doubling down on.
[SPEAKER_01]: On, they had a warlock before in the RAM-59th classic, which was a previous generation truck that was still on sale last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now,
[SPEAKER_01]: The classic RAM 1500 trucks are no more, it's all the new Gen truck, and look at it, it's a pretty nice package actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's something interesting to talk about and explore because this is one of the trucks that we have here at the office this week.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been testing it quite a bit, and it's fresh in our minds.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also a category of truck that we like quite a lot because it's a rugged enough truck that you could go run some light to moderate trails here in Colorado, which we do a lot because we live right here in the mountains.
[SPEAKER_02]: Still a truck that you can pull the trailer with, you can fill up the bed, it's a crew cab, so you can haul around people.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we love this segment of trucks and the idea with this warlock is that it would be a little bit more affordable quite a bit more affordable than an RA show or an upcoming TRX.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have a bone to pick with this truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, what's your bone?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's
[SPEAKER_02]: For one, I'm going to go ahead and say it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The one that we have here at the office is $60,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: $60,800 approximately.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which in 2025 in the realm of pickup trucks, $60,000 is not a ton of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Relatively speaking.
[SPEAKER_02]: Relatively speaking, in this day and age,
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a ton of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mentally, I'm still stuck a little bit in 2019, so 60 grand seems like a lot for trucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in this day, the 60 grand is not that much for a truck, but you get into this truck and you see some of the areas in which they've cut costs.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's some of them are a little hard for me to move past.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind the cloth seats I don't mind the basic interior.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually really like the fact that this particular truck is a six-seat configuration So we've got a British in the front bench in the front.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so a lot of stuff like that I think is awesome the small screen again.
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't bug me, but there's some convenient side of them The the biggest one that irritates me and for most people on you might roll your eyes think whatever
[SPEAKER_02]: the buttons on the back of the steering wheel that you use for volume and to skip tracks, try to use all the time and I correlate that in my mind with any still anti-SERFCA, whatever you want to call them product.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love those buttons.
[SPEAKER_02]: I use them quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, usually you always listen to music.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing you do when you jump in the truck and then talk looking at you case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miss you pair your phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I said that's what everybody I think does because I get music on exactly music Maybe podcasts maybe listening to TFL talking trucks and I maybe I probably won't because I'm here for it Okay, so I don't need a but everybody else the thing to it some people yeah some people are yeah and at least tens of people
[SPEAKER_02]: to our listeners.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe even hundreds.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that I find particularly offensive that they would cost cut by getting rid of the volume switches.
[SPEAKER_02]: A couple of the switches that I use the most often on the back of this steering wheel.
[SPEAKER_02]: How much is that really going to save them versus how much?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's probably, I mean, if you think about building 10 or 20 or 30,000 trucks, it probably will let up eventually on that cost or, wait a minute, or it could be a supplier problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean after COVID and through COVID we've learned about different supply chain issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be where it could be a terrible thing where the part is coming from another region or country.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was there before and you're taking something out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's and I think it's a nice convenient thing to have.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can disagree with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can say that I'm making mountains out of mulls that might be fair to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are a few nice features on the truck though.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like to fact that both the primary and
[SPEAKER_02]: portion of the mirror and the lower convex portion of the mirror are power adjustable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: On this more basic truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, except the towing mirrors that this truck, the the warlock we're talking about that we have on testing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not power folding.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this came into play when Roman and I took our F-150 tremor, which I would wager this warlock competes against.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can argue about this later
[SPEAKER_01]: we were going through a tight trail up a deer creek trail here in the mountains of Colorado and I had to ask Ian our videographer to fold my mirror manually because I couldn't obviously reach the passenger side I was able to reach the driver side so that was I was kind of wishing I had power folding mirrors
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which is fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that that much I would expect as far as trying to keep it a more affordable trim, but there are a few examples of cost cutting on the truck that for $60,000 are things that I would kind of expect.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's re take a step back, base price.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have the towing package, if you don't have some of the other additional options like,
[SPEAKER_01]: bed liner, believe it or not, or title cover, which are all additional costs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And including the V8 Hemie that the struck has equipped, which is the most expensive engine option.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's pretty great.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you take away all of that and put in a pen star V6 into this Warlock 1500 RAM, the base price, including destination, is
[SPEAKER_01]: is $54,000 and $10.
[SPEAKER_01]: We checked it on the configurator this morning right before this podcast is airing and that includes the $21.95 destination.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you have an interesting vehicle which is a little weird because you kind of have a low torque, low horsepower relatively speaking engine
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess, you know, some people could go for that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would at least want to spec the hurricane if it were my truck and the hurricane is less expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's $1,600 for the hurricane.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that to me would be worthwhile over the penistar, because it's a lot more power and a lot more torque.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you did that, your RAM-500 warlock would be $55,75.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, still no buttons on the back of the steering, although.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what it is, about almost 56 grand, including destination charges.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you would say, wait a minute, where is your journal motors in this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we were looking at a Silverado custom trail boss.
[SPEAKER_02]: with the Turbo 4 cylinder.
[SPEAKER_02]: Turbo Max?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that would be around $54,000 similarly equipped.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that is a G80 and not a selectable rear locker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which General Motors have been doing for decades.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's kind of their similar works.
[SPEAKER_01]: And JD works, it's not maybe as graceful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it could be sudden when you're kind of in a low traction situation and your rear axle is looking for power that engagement of that G80 locker is a little bit sudden and it could kind of like, you know, kind of propel you forward in a sudden way, but nonetheless it works, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a little bit more affordable by what $15.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, $15 less than the penistar version of the warlock that we were talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we, you know, $15.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lunch.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few things.
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes us roadhouse.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could get a nice appetizer if you don't fill up on the rolls in the cinnamon butter.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not brought to you by a Texas roadhouse, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it could be in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is brought to you by you, the Patreon supporters.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what this is, this podcast is brought to you by.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, back on subject.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trimmer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what about the VA to cut them, Trump?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so keeping on the Chevy for one more moment, if we did get the Chevy with a VA, it would be just under 56,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: So very similarly priced to the hurricane version of the Warlock, and you can make an argument there, which one makes more sense of hurricanes going to have more power and more torque.
[SPEAKER_02]: More power and more torque, the 5-3 in the trailboss is going to have more character.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it depends on what you're going for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, so so here's where we're kind of stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're stuck around 55 56 grand and let's review Basically you're getting a small suspension left with both of these trucks more aggressive tires We're talking about like one to two inches suspension left and
[SPEAKER_01]: Really aggressive tires, so you actually sacrificed a little bit of efficiency with these trucks because these tires have high rolling resistance They're very knobby We're talking about the unexpected trade-off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're talking about dura tracks here in some of these cases at least with GM and RAM and You getting some sort of a rear locking differential and Especially tuned shocks and suspension.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a better plateing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, skip-lating as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So most of the basics that you need
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so now you have a truck that can do everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can do your daily tasks, your daily driver, it will carry payload and it will tow a trailer, but then you could also take it on the weekend and go play in the mountains or the trails.
[SPEAKER_02]: And since we've had the RAM Warlock here at the office, we have been comparing it to our F-150 tremor, even though our F-150 tremor is good junk a change or more expensive than the Warlock.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the tremor in a lot of ways is similar to the Warlock and that their light off-road packages, it's not a Raptor, it's not the full flagship poster truck jumping across your desktop screen, whatever you have as your screensaver.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the tremor is, and we'll talk about FX4 because FX4 package in the Ford lineup has been there for decades as well, and that was their kind of more value-oriented Alfred package, but let's talk about tremor first.
[SPEAKER_01]: It starts actually with a V8, believe it or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for it actually giving us a V8 right off the bat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pretty happy with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not thank you for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It starts at 67,510.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not talking about any prices that include particular incentives because those incentives depend on where you live and they're changing at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: week to week day to day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's an example.
[SPEAKER_01]: We purchased when when Roman walked into our local dealer at Ford to get the 750-tram at 2025 model, the sticker price is just a hair over 68 on our exact truck, the one you see here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because of employee pricing when he was there and some other discounts that Ford had running at the time, he walked out at 63,000 approximately.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is about five grand off the price MSRP.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you did that today, it would be different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, you never know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the same thing goes for the RAM and the Chevy.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of them have incentives.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of them have different discount depending on the region.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what the pricing we're talking about is the sticker price MSRP that you see on the Monrony sticker in the window.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not likely to be what you're going to pay out the door.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a basis of comparison for us, and that's how we're looking at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's how we have to look at it because again, we can't get into the specifics of what it looks like in every, at every dealership across the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: But our F-150 tremor, I agree it is on the pricey side, is much better equipped than especially the warlock that we've been comparing it against this week, the interior is better, better features.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually a little bit more fancy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you open the door and the tremor, you have a little bit of orange stitching in many different places.
[SPEAKER_01]: The seats actually have a big tremor logo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, tremor is also a cool name.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's still basic in some ways our tremor has cloth seats, which I actually like a lot, but it doesn't look like a fleet truck interior.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's truly looks like a sport truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the sense that you could go, you know, use it off road in a very fun matter, and also it has big screens.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we have a few clips playing if you're watching us on TFL talk, or our Patreon page, ption.com slash TFL.
[SPEAKER_01]: car, we have big digital screens, which you could argue is bad or good, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: What I like about the warlock is that you have analogue spedometer and the cometer, which interior should not break, I mean, they've been around for many, many years, but for the reason they had a recall, gosh, I mean, I just wish you would stop having recalls.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: where when you start the truck on 2025 and some 2026 models, the screens would stay black, not come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're fixing it over the year update, you know, easy fix, they found it, they're going to fix it, but that could be an issue with a screen, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, digital problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: But to its credit, the tremor feels like a much nicer truck, it feels more special and a lot more premium.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is more expensive, but it's also much nicer,
[SPEAKER_02]: But maybe a better comparison would be something like an F-150 STX with an FX4 package.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a much more basic truck, so arguably more comparable to the Warlock or to the Silverado custom with Trebaugh's package going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: That STX with an FX4 package would get you a lot of the off-road features that we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would get you skid plates, more aggressive tires, which is almost 33 as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not really a suspension lift, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really a customized suspension per se, although the shocks are a little bit too in the according to Ford.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not like any sort of lift, so you're still at the same right height as you would be normally speaking in a 4x4x15.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the SDX is also a little bit more fun, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a little bit more color options, but also kind of basic truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that one starts including destination at 52,540.
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's a rapid fire and news item.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you and I were on the computer, on the Configurator, and the destination charge on the F115.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's about $2,600 destination fee, which is a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because we were on ramps website that was around $2,200.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is just a few months ago, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think two weeks ago, I was on the fourth site, and the destination charge was $21.95.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, we're looking at this is September of 2025, 2005, 95, basically 2600, like you said, non-optional destination church.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter which dealership you're at, that destination church will apply to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're in Dearborn, Michigan, and you're staring at the fourth plant where the truck is rolling out of, you're still paying that destination church.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it, am I, am I crazy to say that I think that should just be built into the sticker price?
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's, if it's necessarily a part of the price of any truck, even if you spec no options?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you're off-based here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when they say the truck starts at, it's, it's in the middle of the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: 2,595 right there destination.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they say that the truck starts at 45, it's actually not 45.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: In a way,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not going to be 45.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you see also options.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is incentive packages.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can subtract 3,000 here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can subtract another 1750 there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But once again, that depends.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends on your maybe financial situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're leasing or buying, it can be any number of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a pretty pricey destination, which are okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is the highest I've seen, like even like the highest that we saw previously was like a Hummering EV at about $2,200, which is a heavy vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of get it because it takes a lot to ship one of those vehicles across the country, but in a fun 50, it also kind of a big vehicle, but not as heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not nearly as big as a Hummering EV.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was a shocker.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, but now I'm in a weird position because
[SPEAKER_01]: Does the Warlock RAM compete against the FX4S DX, or does it compete against the tremor?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the two Ford's almost straddle the Warlock in price.
[SPEAKER_02]: In price and in features, so it's an interesting comparison.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe people can let us know in the comments what they think would be the better comparison there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, we're going to do comparisons with the tremor because we own that truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have it here at the office.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a good comparison.
[SPEAKER_01]: if not perfect and actually speaking option for option like Roman walked out the door at 63 grand with the tremor and the sticker price on our hemmy warlock is 60,800 so they're actually within like
[SPEAKER_01]: almost $2,000, yeah, they're $3,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: So actually the way we are in the real world right now, they're actually pretty close.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's why you really, it's easy again to feel the sticker shock of looking at the MSRPs.
[SPEAKER_02]: that we're talking about on these trucks, but it's always worth going online, seeing what a dealership near you might be offering as far as incentives go, because you can usually walk out the door with a truck for less than what the sticker prices.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, like, if they're actually several of those trucks on the lot, the dealer might be willing to do wheeling, wheeling, and dealing, because they want to move that inventory off the lot, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're
[SPEAKER_01]: that might be an issue you might be at a lock yeah so it just depends on how you're shopping but really gosh well we have several videos so we did the drag race right we drag race our tremor versus the warlock yep uh v8 for v8 that was that's coming up and you guys went off road in both trucks yes uh we're also scheming to do a little bit of a night gauntlet
[SPEAKER_01]: scheme and yes right on with these v8 power trucks because v8s are really coming back in full force almost you know ram now has one shipping to customers gm has v8 that's actually one of their main engines and also for i've seen before people poke fun at us for towing with off-road trims of trucks ah
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think actually there's very good reason why we do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we test a lot of off-road trims of trucks because that's just a whole other aspect of a truck that we can test because we don't just have the truck channel.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got the off-road channel and all many channels, you know, five others on top of those too.
[SPEAKER_02]: But on top of that, on top of it, just being more of a Swiss army knife, more tools in the Swiss army knife that we can use in test and film, the other thing is off road trims of trucks are designed to tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our tremor is rated at 9,900 pounds, almost 10,000 pounds of towing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not typically going to be the absolute best trim to tow, and it's not going to be the trim rated for the most amount of towing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they are designed to tell exactly and also I don't see I don't know how many countless times You know when we are out and about driving around and you see you know enough road truck Maybe even the Raptor pulling the side by side behind it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a daily occurrence here in Colorado Maybe it's not a daily occurrence in Boston Massachusetts in New York in Manhattan Manhattan, but it's a common occurrence out here
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we see that a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you want to use your truck like you said there's a Swiss army knife, you know, yeah, you can take it to Costco to buy some groceries.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go, you know, here you can pull a trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can do any number of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's our goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could go tailgating at the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that is football season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are we even talking about trucks?
[SPEAKER_01]: We should talk about odds of games.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'd be really good at that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to be experts at sports.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to hire Alex back if we're going to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where is Alex?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Should we talk about the GMC Canyon 84x and Moe.
[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit, so that's not a truck in our fleet of trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as always, we kind of rotate them around because we own trucks for all about a year.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we do everything imaginable with some of these trucks and then we move it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this 84X is really replacing the Raptor Ranger that we had.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you won't believe it, Andre.
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this was never going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cole, who's behind the camera over there.
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were in Lafayette, where the motorcycle was.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was heading Colorado near our office.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, heading back from the shoot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I saw a Canyon AT4X in the same color that we bought.
[SPEAKER_02]: The orange color orange.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I looked at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was looking at the dry room and driving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was not Roman driving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was looking at this, you know, trying to look for some of the stickers that we have on the truck, like the TFL sticker and the blaze sticker.
[SPEAKER_01]: On that stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think somebody else bought a can in 84x in pumpkin orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, that is shocking, but I think I think I'm going to say that it was us motivating somebody to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we have that kind of reach.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let us know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you listen to TFL talking trucks and did you buy an 84x?
[SPEAKER_02]: Certainly don't orange start copying our style because it's question our style choices our question is not hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah our style choices are based on
[SPEAKER_01]: What how a truck looks on camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and is it bright?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it fun?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's our style choice But I actually I don't hate the color on the GM C Canyon that we have that that orange I think it's unique.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it stands out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it clashes a little bit with the red on it But anyway, I thought that was funny that I saw another one on the road
[SPEAKER_01]: So tell me, you drove it about 350 miles from here to Mawab on Highway and then you took it on which trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did top of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Top of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never been there actually, so it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was interesting because I would say the first maybe 70, 80 percent of the trail was very mild.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, I wouldn't say the best views of any trail in Moab.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you get to the very top of the trail, top of the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it gets steep and deep.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, it is a good view up there, but the last 20, 30% of the trail is non-stop ledges that you're climbing over.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we went there to Moab with our GMC Canyon.
[SPEAKER_02]: to shoot a video with Ryan from Driving Sports TV, who has a Tacoma that he kidded out with tires, under body protection, he's got a rack over the bed system.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a lifted truck and he's up in the Pacific Northwest.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that truck's not necessarily built out strictly for rock crawling.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would say actually the canyon up against the Tacoma did exceptionally well, especially because that canyon front and rear lockers unlike his T.R.D.
[SPEAKER_02]: Offroad is just a rear lock.
[SPEAKER_02]: And not a canyon there's old talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: Completely bone stock.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing about the canyon is that it's a pretty tall truck for a factory mid-size.
[SPEAKER_02]: So as far as clearance goes, it did really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm happy to hear this, especially with the traction that has with tires, lockers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it was comfortable on the road trip.
[SPEAKER_02]: The interior is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: GM does make kind of a stiff seat.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the materials, the technology, the comfort in general of the cab was not bad at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had no qualms with road trip in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So MSRP on that truck was about 57 grand, which is actually almost identical to the Ranger Raptor that we used to have, that we traded in, and 57 grand is actually a little bit more than some of the other full size trucks that we just discussed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a special truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is not a vehicle, you know, you buy Willie Nilly, you really should buy it if you intend to really use it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the canyon is much better off road than the Trebaas, the Warlock 1500 and the F-150 tremor that we're talking about, especially because it's got a front locker, front and rear.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty big.
[SPEAKER_02]: And good underbody protection, good camera systems, nice interior.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that Canyon does a lot of things pretty well if you don't necessarily need the capacity, the utility aspect of a full-size truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you mostly want an off-road truck, you get a better deal going with something like that Canyon 84X.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the Canyon a lot as a rock crawler, but in general
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I was faced with the choice for the same money, ranger actor or a de 4x canyon, I would go ranger actor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and again, specifically because of that power trade.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just to interfere with V6 more fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: With that factory and and warranty covered tune that we put on the truck, 455 horsepower, 536 pound feet of torque on the right side.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about, because whenever I drive the 84X either on the street or on the trail, the suspension, it's got the DSSV Multimatic shocks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does, but it's a little firm in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a stiff truck off-road, but even... Did you air it on-road?
[SPEAKER_02]: We did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I should have helped a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: It did.
[SPEAKER_02]: It helped.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish a truck was maybe a little bit softer.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the way these DSSV, so DSSV is basically spool valve technology which is different than the kind of the washer shim technology that many other shocks use, but they're not live adjustable.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no switches, you turn, there is no buttons, you push, so those shocks are set at the factory, you know, the way they want them to be set at, and on the street it's pretty precise, it's a good precision.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when it's a little firm in high speeds, at high speeds both you and I have experienced the DSSV multimetic shocks doing their thing and they do it well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I was shopping for a high-speed off-road truck in this segment again, it'd be the Ranger Raptor.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like this Canyon as a rock crawler.
[SPEAKER_02]: and for ninety nine, well, maybe let's say a hundred percent of the time that you're driving on a rock crawling trail, you're just taking consistent slow speed bumps and it would be nice to have a truck that's maybe set up a little bit softer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so I think where GM maybe going in the future and this is my speculation, not anything they announced.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I was in Vegas at the Mint 400, which infected our producer Cole with a love of afroading, he even has a t-shirt.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the mint 400.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The truck that GM had there was that electric Silverado ZR2 concept, which had live adjustable DSSVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe GM is looking into that technology, and maybe they'll push it forward, and then call would be very happy with some of these trucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's all we're looking for.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're, he's about to show us the ZR2.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was not the trail boss, but it was the ZR2 concept.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are two concept trucks, which had live DSSVs?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big unit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this truck, this, you know what, when it finished its race, they drive over the stage, you know, where the driver that could be straightened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the stage though in the middle.
[SPEAKER_01]: The stage was built out of this, I think three-quarter plywood, and the plywood was creaking and bending.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yikes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember this call?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would not want to drive that truck over plywood.
[SPEAKER_01]: plywood is not adequate.
[SPEAKER_01]: to hold up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this, the stage was not quite ready for 10,000 pound racetrack, but it actually did quite well in the hands of Chad Hall who's a very experienced, very, very legendary Afro-drymer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was quite nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is pretty cool, but we've got to switch, yeah, nothing we've talked about so far as as cool as what we were doing yesterday.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jacob, which has a collection of Unimogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Unimogs, as well as a lot of other really.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have some videos about this call.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you look up Unimog collection, we actually have a video where we walk through some of these trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I even met Jay and Moab.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's another video where you see several Unimogs, parks, park, next to each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, basically, actually, Jay was explaining how it started with little Suzuki Afro-Dbuggies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's an interesting guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: He started wheeling off-road in Suzuki Samurai and then his immediate next move.
[SPEAKER_02]: was unemogged.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know how that transition actually occurred.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it occurred.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a big transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was saying that he initially got in a unemogged because he was actually using them as as implements as agricultural tractors.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually got into.
[SPEAKER_02]: using them off road and kidding them out and that's kind of his core business now.
[SPEAKER_02]: He built some insane uniforms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, look at some of these bumpers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we were looking at, I don't know, three inch tubing or maybe bigger on some of these.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's building bumpers that nearly wouldn't fit into the eight foot bed of my comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're a massive massive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Double wage setups, crazy stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So his company, one of his companies is called couch engineering, couch is his last name.
[SPEAKER_01]: And couch engineering, he does over the years, he picked up these, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Secrets off-roading so he's implementing them, you know, just tough components either beat lock rings and he feels genuinely one of the best people out there at off-roading Absolutely massive vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's he knows what he's doing and it's funny through this job We get to meet a lot of people that build some cool stuff off-road do some cool stuff off-road and like to have fun
[SPEAKER_02]: And watching these guys mess around is unlike any next level we've ever seen one of the cool parts of yesterday was that I had the opportunity to drive in eight wheel drive 50,000 pound four axle with four lockers mn military truck
[SPEAKER_02]: That was pretty pretty sweet so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can look up man cat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, M.A.N.
[SPEAKER_01]: C.A.T.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mancat Maybe it's too weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do words and I don't know if we have a video completely about it already But you know while a while back we also did a video with Not a cat
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the internet is struggling with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, um, yes, a while ago, we also did a video with 8.8 with one of Jay's 10 by 10 military trucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this one, he likes even more.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's in 8 wheel, 8 wheel drive, four lockers on all four axles.
[SPEAKER_02]: military truck, and that was a pretty cool thing to drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that we did was like we said, can you talk about the transmission on this truck really quickly?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because this is kind of unique.
[SPEAKER_02]: So as as Jay described it, it's essentially it's a manual transmission, so you've got a clutch, you've got a gear lever, and you look at the top of the shifter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I drove there in in my Cummins, which is the five speed.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you've got the five speeds and reverse on the top of the ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: The pattern.
[SPEAKER_02]: The pattern on the top of the shifter in that is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
[SPEAKER_02]: So eight gears.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eight positions for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a four speed matched up with a high and low.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like a
[SPEAKER_02]: What you do with this M-A-N Army truck is you pick whatever gear you're going to go into you can start off in a pretty high gear And what you can do is you can hold your foot on the brake you can dump the clutch and there's actually as J describes it there's a torque converter apparently in this power train so you can let the clutch out be holding the brake in gear
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're sitting in gear and let off the break and go to the throttle and at that point essentially drive it like an automatic So it's kind of it's an interesting split in some ways it drives like an automatic, but it is still manual with a clutch pedal Yeah, going through the gears you do manually and it has a clutch pedal
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, we're also live on Patreon and all of our glassers here, Glazer, I'm sorry, so happy Friday, he says, we just true, it is a happy Friday, yeah, we've leaned in in the weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, so that must have been a special experience for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you also took it into a tank trap area that Jay has at his property.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting as, as Jay put it, you have to plan your turns because it's wide, it's long, and it takes a while, and you have to do quite a few hand-over-hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, turns the steering wheel before you actually get that vessel to change course I was video I was running a one of the cameras while you was while you were driving I was outside observing you guys and it's quite a sight it's hard to see scale because at his tank traps he's got this gigantic basically holds or trenches and
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are 10 12 feet deep, 10 to 12 feet deep, and there could be anywhere from 20 to 40 feet long or longer.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I saw other people walking next to you and videoing you, now you get the scale.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where this vehicle is, I don't know, 40 feet long maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got eight will drive obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also very heavy vehicle to begin with, and but eight will drive, it didn't seem like you struggled at all over most of these all.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, and we didn't actually have the lockers on on the front to or the rear two axes.
[SPEAKER_02]: No lockers need them, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: It never spun a tire, makes sense at 50,000 pounds, it's got a lot of traction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, the one of the nice things with having eight axles is you've, yeah, sorry, eight wheels.
[SPEAKER_02]: If one of the nice things about having four axles is that you've probably got some wheels on the ground with good traction at all times.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there were some tight turns over, over narrow sections of his tank trap that had drop-offs on either side, where you hang one of the front tires and one of the rear tires off either side,
[SPEAKER_02]: of whatever your traversing over, but as long as you've got a few wheels on the ground, it's like a caterpillar.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a walking caterpillar, not the caterpillar engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about bug.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like the bug.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the bug, where it always has a leg on the ground, no matter what you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you like kind of like a caterpillar, the bug.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can lift the front four wheels up in here,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a spectacular thing to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a video on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be coming up on TFL off-road.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something to look forward to.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a bucket list item for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was really cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you also spent some time off-road in our juice and off-road with Jay in his Unimog, because we were doing a head-to-head between the two.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think one of the most interesting things on that Unimog is the Super crawler gear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we talk about lower-inch every day, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, it's a transfer case which has the normal gear set where we're using in tool drive with high speed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, high speeds.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you go into 4 low, which basically sometimes it's like a 2.7 to 1 reduction, or sometimes in a Jeep, it's a 4 to 1 reduction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can go a lot slower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the Unimaq has that, but also it has something called working.
[SPEAKER_01]: transfer case, which is another reduction on top of the already a reduce.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a double low range, double or low range, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and we never used it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so the Enemag also has eight gears manual transmission, and then you multiply it, you know, times two, that's 16, and another time, so that's basically 24 gears.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I asked Jay after we negotiated most of the obstacles.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, can you show me the working group?
[SPEAKER_01]: low range.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was filming you guys with a drone as you were doing that and I thought you were sitting there station.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're moving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he put it in like second gear working group a transfer case and there's like eight levers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the center console because he's got hydraulics, he's got several, you know, two transfer cases.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because the bed on that Unimog has a dump function, but not it doesn't just
[SPEAKER_02]: which is pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in this, this, you know my, it's capable J quoted this four inches of travel per minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so he said clutch out on the throttle, yes, it could take as much as a full minute for one revolution in the tire in that super crawler gear, which seems absurd, very unnecessary, yes, but you have to remember that unimog had 140 or no 100, like a hundred and.
[SPEAKER_02]: 35 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not a very high horsepower engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, so gearing is its friend.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Jay said that actually a few times He's used that super crawler gear, but it's more of a that's more of a tractor kind of functionality If you're using big implements Using it for a more agricultural.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so another use case.
[SPEAKER_01]: He also had an attachment for a snow of a Thrower
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which was a terrifying looking gigantic drum with blades on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks like a meat grinder that you could walk into, uh, which is scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but when you're cutting, like, let's say you're, you're going through like a four or five foot tall snow drift.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to move through it too fast because you're going to get bugged down, you know, churning through this snow and ice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you're using quite a bit of power to spin that drum.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where the working gear comes in because you can move as a like an inch like a legial pace.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you can clear all the glacier to the side.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just clear it and keep moving.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of where this vehicle comes in.
[SPEAKER_02]: So our, our doos is really cool and I love that truck every time we go up to the ranch and we see if they are actually Andre drove it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Andre drove it in a work today and seen it out there in the parking lot is awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think Jay covered me, I think I'm team unimog man.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, the unimog we were in still had a straight sick diesel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, six and a row ready to do some work, ready to tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: But price wise, okay, it's our arduous.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, it could be priced brand new, because it's re-done by boys engineering equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was about 50,000 dollars approximately.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the Unimog that J was in competing against me,
[SPEAKER_01]: was about $80,000, but it is a more useful machine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we said, it has dual lockers which the juice was in spec at, we could have.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, our juice just has a rear lock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could have added the front locker, we chose not to.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also got coil springs and disc brakes and it rides better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got portal axles.
[SPEAKER_01]: It also has a higher high speed, top speed than our do's, and it has a dumb bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it has many other features.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing that I'll spoil because I don't, I don't think is going to stop anyone from going and watching the video because us talking about it's one thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually seeing these two massive rigs go ahead ahead is worth you going to look at when that video is up.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a triple truck, channel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But another point that I have to give the doos is that it off-road, one of the biggest differences between the two is that the the unimog, rather, was a lot more maneuverable.
[SPEAKER_01]: It had a slightly shorter wheelbase and really good turning radius.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was quite a bit narrower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were two.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about it as we were driving it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually the the doos and a half, the Bob doos, General Giant, he's got a four-speed Allison Aromatic transmission with a torque converter.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jay, it speaks badly about automatic transmissions, and mainly because they do have a token ver, and the token ver feature, even though the 8 by 8 has a token ver as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: He spoke a little bit negatively about it because it has a tendency to, when approaching a big obstacle to kind of bog down because the token ver takes some of that slack off the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the manual transmission, according to J and make sense, is the gears are always meshed, you know, the manual transmission gearing and the axles are always meshed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even when you come up to an obstacle, there is still that Ford momentum that can slowly take you over that obstacle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but at the end of the day, he was a little bit angry, but he complimented our
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think our dooses, again, we're, we're talking about two kickass trucks that I would be lucky to see in my driveway at any time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I, I do, I like those uniforms a lot of those, you know, monks are pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's easy to like them because he's got like 30 of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and they're all pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that was a hell of a day of work on a fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, something else happened because his second company is called Dirtbox Overland, and they do accessories, like trade beds, flat beds, they do rack systems for trucks, they do a tents for SUVs and trucks, you know, a roof-mounted wedge tents,
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just that, but also accessories, like mounts for your bicycles, your heaters, your fridges, everything integrated into one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're super cool setups.
[SPEAKER_02]: We get, we get the opportunity to poke around all kinds of different overland camping, off-roading, bed and camper, and roof rack setups.
[SPEAKER_02]: just about any one of them that you can think of.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen and we've interacted with and a lot of them are pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of them aren't all of our cup of tea, but the ones that Jay is building are super rad and really well engineered and well thought out because
[SPEAKER_02]: partly for fun, but you know, he'll maybe call it R&D.
[SPEAKER_02]: J goes out and tests those things extensively.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the mindset is overbuilding.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the mindset.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's about to take some of those rigs down the South America for like six months or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know how we talk about, like, A.V.
[SPEAKER_01]: American Expedition Vehicle, how their bumpers and other components are overbuilt, where they can last for years, maybe decades without rusting or falling apart, or doing this and that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, I think, the mindset of dirt box overland, because a lot of the components are actually aluminum, and they're designed to minimize welding, because when you, you know, weld two pieces of aluminum together, could have fractures, you know, and different issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: One, and those guys know how to construct something that's durable because they're off-roading vehicle traps, vehicles that weigh, you know, 15,000 pounds or more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the mindset and also comes along with that is price.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any prices to quote here, but don't expect it to be the bottom price because you're buying tough quality, you know, and a little bit something that's tougher and you're doable and you're going to pay more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Put it, put it this way, though, if it could survive J couch, it's going to survive probably anything that you're going to do with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to throw it at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as we wrap up this episode, I have a couple of rapid fire news items that I want to shoot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shoot that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So first...
[SPEAKER_01]: So fourth range risk have been recalled.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also a stop sale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's kind of a big one.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the obviously there's been a lot of news about Ford recalls this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because there's been a lot of Ford recalls this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of them have been very minor to be fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think last-side check we were at 110.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where we are now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which, but if you do the math is about one every other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: how many days in the year are that's unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of the stuff that we looked at already had to do with bigger trucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now the ranger isn't involved.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, not again, to be fair, a lot of the recalls that have come out have been for minor stuff, one of the recalls was for one car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we wouldn't really mention it unless there were 100,000 Rangers recalls.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and a stop sale is a bigger deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we use the don't bring up stuff like, you know what, we had to reprint a sticker on five trucks because we messed up on the payload number.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not when we're never going to talk about that because there's thousands of these things, you know, with every manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when there's a stop sale, so the issue the experience was in a crash test, they noticed a slight tear in the airbag on a side curtain airbag.
[SPEAKER_01]: And where it matches with a be-pillar internal structure, I guess there's something going on there when the airbag deploys, it starts to tear because of that pillar.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it losing air pressure or using just pressure and could become a safety concern, you know, in a roll over or another situation where an accident is occurring.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, for that I think the right thing and they actually looked deeper into that problem,
[SPEAKER_01]: they actually were very serious about it, and so the solution I think is eventually, it's not coming immediately, but actually resulted in the factory, where they're doing a slightly different B-pillar internal structure that will not cause a tear in the airbag.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's something that they're going to have to address pretty quickly if it's a stop sale But yeah, that's because that's not going to help truck sales if you're driving your truck now You're going to get a letter and they may in the mail or you know online or in your app saying that it is a recall happening But the trucks are on the lot
[SPEAKER_01]: By law when there's a safety thing you cannot sell a truck with a safety concern So that's why the stop sale is happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's gonna make it a big big deal for them to get fixed And something they're gonna want to fix quickly, but another little bit of Ford news one that's on a slightly higher note Yeah, is that they've made the Ford Maverick about a thousand dollars less yeah was for last year
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a story on that on tfltrack.com also because that is on top of it on tfltrack.com Yes, that is a very very very very cool news website for trucks and reviews So the fabric has been beaten up recently for crazy price increases over the last four years and appropriately so yeah, I've been a part of that
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, because it's price over the four-year period increased almost 38 percent, yeah, which is a big chunk mainly I think because it's kind of almost not the only pickup in its class There's also the Hyundai Santa Cruz, but it's one of the more popular ones and whenever you dominate a segment
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Tacoma is very similar at this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're able to increase your price because there's a lot of demand There's a lot of demand for it people want it so you can increase the price But now for 2026 model year there are actually certain trim levels are actually becoming a little bit more affordable And the base marriage now has a turbo engine which is a still the two liter that they had before But with front will drive only which they're bringing back and look we have a table right here on their website
[SPEAKER_01]: which is now $1,000 less than the base hybrid you can buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So technically speaking, you could jump in a new maverick at about $28,840, which doesn't sound like a very small amount of money, but it's once again $1,000 less than before.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still quite a bit more than the gust under $20,000 starting MSRP they had when the truck first launched, but it is a move in the right direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: But look at this.
[SPEAKER_01]: A global price stays the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lariat, I will drive hybrid, which is more fancy, Maverick, $350 less than before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lariat, EcoBoost, $920 less.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the tremor is $350 less expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so not a huge amount, but still.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's still nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's good to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's a little bit of positive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also last week I was in Michigan at the Ram event for their hammy relaunch, you know, reintroduction of the five seven hammy into their light duty trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But another piece of news was that Ram is now
[SPEAKER_01]: is introducing some factory-backed accessories via Direct Connection Mopar, which in one of those items is the exhaust.
[SPEAKER_01]: Custom exhaust system for the RAM-RHO Colony were there and actually it made that RHO sound quite a bit more aggressive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did it sound better in person because I've only heard a video clip of it in the video clip that I heard of that exhaust on the
[SPEAKER_02]: And it definitely, to me, didn't sound trucky.
[SPEAKER_02]: But how does sound in person?
[SPEAKER_01]: As I like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in person, it's better.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can kind of see it here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're walking around the truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really an attractive system, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those five-inch outlets are pretty good looking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a three-inch diameter system, actually going to back to the catalytic converters.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a true dual system, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it sounds probably best like most systems under load, under acceleration, and there's a little blip, you know, when it shifts and you can hear that kind of almost like a backfire sound, which is not a really a backfire, but kind of attractive sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually thought it made the truck more attractive since you're like a BMW.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's a little deeper.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still a three liter straight sex.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see where you're going.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's maybe a little bit in that version.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say it's more deep.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a deeper tone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have nothing against being done.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, but it's not a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting to sound for a truck, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, the T-Rx will be coming and they said this will have a V8 engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's probably going to be the hellcat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's going to be a whole different story.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is a good alternative though to an EcoBoost Raptor, especially because I love straight sixes in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually like when you bring up German manufacturers like Mercedes, BMW, Audi, especially Mercedes and some of their high performance AMG products, they're able to
[SPEAKER_01]: make an exhaust system on a turbocharged engine, which is very pleasing and aggressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, RAM and Ford also came out with that, you know, valve system with a loop to loop, remember that, you know, the Raptor, EcoBoost, where it was equal length, you know, they're going to great lengths to actually make those engines sound more appealing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, which is worth doing in an enthusiast truck like that, because if you're going to be trying to sell trucks to people that are buying something, they're passionate about rather than just the most objectively utilitarian useful thing, then sound is important.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not free.
[SPEAKER_01]: The base exhaust system that optional Magnet system, Magnet Flow system that we're talking about was about 2,000 bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but when you're buying a $72,000 R.E.
[SPEAKER_01]: show, or maybe it's more expensive if you're getting a luxury version of that for about $82,000 before discounts, $2,000 doesn't seem like a big scheme.
[SPEAKER_02]: At that point it's a bit of a drop in the bucket.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, but I would wager it makes you truck more appealing to an enthusiast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: As such, I think it's a worthy investment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'll have to withhold my own judgment until I get to hear it in person because again, we can try to gather as much as possible through video, but well, it's different when you're watching it on your phone and you have phone speakers or headphones, yeah, it's on my phone, it didn't sound that good, but it's a wonderful experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little bit better in person than than you could imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: as could be said about car that we thought we were going to hear up start up at some point in this podcast and we haven't haven't we haven't heard it yet?
[SPEAKER_02]: The Viper are our company owns 1994 Viper is right on the other side of that door and they're putting tires on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which means they have to move it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which means they have to move it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They might, it is a pretty pushable car.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they might just be moving it that way but that's another vehicle that online all the time people say how much they dislike the sound of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would be willing to wager, at least for myself, everybody at the office, everyone, I've seen go for right in that car, when you actually get in it in real life, and weigh a lot on it, it doesn't sound bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you've got to withhold your judgment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one of the issues that people may think about with that Viper is that you're hearing five cylinders on the one side and five cylinders on the right, because that's how the system is designed.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not, I don't think there's any crossing of the pipes, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Two monogies, yeah, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's so you, but...
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree with you completely, colonite drove it to the drag strip, and it's almost like a surround sound.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and when you're approaching red line with an 8-liter V10, you're not actually pretty high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like 6,000 RPM.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it revs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not thinking, wow, this sounds terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're thinking this is the time of my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine, we're getting new tires on it as we speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine an additional traction because those old tires are pretty terrible?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: With new traction, this could be a nice beast.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be marginally less dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe even because right now it's on a pair of Fred Flynn stones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's less dangerous or more dangerous because you're going to have more confidence.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to go faster.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say less dangerous than 20 year old tires.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, what about Ram bringing back the that engine in the Ram truck?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the V10.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the V10.
[SPEAKER_01]: Since we're talking about V8s and you know, and Hellcasts, that is, I've got no problem with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys have a problem with that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably not.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think that's about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know what you think about the most affordable, or I'm sorry, not affordable.
[SPEAKER_01]: The best value trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't mention the Tundra.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Tundra is there with her.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's here at the Afro packages as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the Tundra Tier D Afro, the one we owned, the 2022 model, when it first came out, was a pretty decent truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: But once again, the tire is not as aggressive as I would want it to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you go to Tier D Pro, you have to buy the hybrid, and then the price goes up to like 75 grand, which is out of the water, you know, tons, a whole different story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so let us know what you think in the comments below and also,
[SPEAKER_02]: go watch the videos that we did with big military trucks because if you watch that and it gets enough views, then we can convince Roman to do that like all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have to convince J. Yeah, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or we get Roman to buy a Unimog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh wait a minute, when he goes to South America.
[SPEAKER_01]: the cats away the mice will play and he won't even know you won't even know how will you know oh maybe by watching our channel yeah we put all that on we will never do that no because because he's got cameras as his property he's got other laser beams where if you cross a
[SPEAKER_01]: We would never do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for watching or listening and we'll see you next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_01]: As always.