American Idol Star Opens Up About Being a Gay Mormon | David Archuleta

 I'm a living contradiction to what I'm supposed to stand for.
 I was on my knees praying, begging God to change me.
 God said, David, stop asking me this.
 They don't see you the way I do.
 They don't get it.
 And it's time for you to get it.
 I'm multi-platinum artist, viral sensation.
 Saying his way into our hearts on American Idol.
 You're asking big questions about faith, identity,
 and what devotion really means, David Archivelle?
 She was my Nashville mom.
 She wasn't trying to say, oh, you're a poor little defenseless bird.
 Like, we need to take care of you.
 She made me feel like I could do something good for myself.
 I thought that was something that was bad.
 Like, I thought I was supposed to stay away from gay people.
 And she said, what's wrong with that?
 And she taught me that I could love myself or who I am,
 even though I didn't yet.
 That's very powerful.
 I think it was kind of used to, OK, what do you want in return?
 And she's like, oh, no, nothing.
 I'm just trying to pay it for it.
 You read her bedside, I believe, when she died.
 Yeah.
 I was just so grateful for her.
 Thank you so much for giving me a safe place.
 And just helped me feel like I belonged.
 In this podcast, we sit out with some
 of the world's most successful people who
 reveal a person that believed in them before the world did.
 The conversations are deep, raw, and relatable.
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 We'll begin with this.
 Oh, Ronda.
 The person who believed in you is who.
 So her name is Ronda Ford Truman.
 And she was my Nashville mom.
 I lived in Nashville for eight years.
 And she's the reason I moved there because she said,
 hey, so when are you moving over here?
 How did you first come to know her?
 So I was on tour with Demi Lovato in 2009.
 And I was with my keyboardist.
 And we were just tired of being on the road for a long time.
 And so she was like, I know this family, Ronda.
 While Ronda herself wasn't in the music business,
 her brother is.
 Her brother is.
 He's a keyboardist in Diamond Rio, right?
 Yeah.
 And Diamond Rio.
 A keyboardist knew Ronda by way of Dan Truman,
 who's the keyboardist in Diamond Rio.
 And she was like, you know, we would just
 love a home cook meal and to do our laundry.
 And Ronda was like, oh, yeah, come on by.
 She's always just, oh, yeah, sure.
 And we played this fun.
 We played a game night when we went over.
 She literally cooked us a meal.
 And I came to learn that she does that for everybody.
 And did it just about every week she would just invite people
 who she knew didn't have family in Nashville
 and have them over at her house.
 I was like, how are you so generous?
 How are you so giving?
 She's like, I just like to pay it forward.
 She's like, I feel blessed in my life.
 And I want other people to have a home and have a,
 if they don't have their family,
 I want them to feel like they are,
 that they have a family here.
 And it was so enriching and it was so healing
 that I was, I didn't want to leave.
 And I didn't, she's, I moved to Nashville.
 And she's like, yeah, while you're looking for a place
 here, you're welcome to just take one of our rooms,
 one of her girls' rooms that they had since moved out.
 So I took her daughter, Shaylee's room,
 but I ended up being there for a year
 because I can't make up my mind.
 And I was still learning how to be self-sufficient,
 self-reliant and self-sufficient
 because I was very codependent still.
 And I was learning how to, well, unlearn that.
 And Rhonda helped me.
 Were you out at the time?
 No, not openly gay, no.
 And you were how old.
 So when I first met her, I was 18.
 And then when I moved to Nashville, I was 24.
 So the game night, the first encounter was at 18 years old.
 Yeah. What made you move back?
 You went back to Nashville to essentially live with her.
 Yeah. Why?
 So I was in Utah.
 I had just gotten back from my mission.
 I was a Mormon missionary in Chile for two years.
 And I was starting to work in LA and in Nashville,
 but I just, LA was a hard adjustment,
 especially coming from being a missionary
 and going to Nashville where I'd worked there before.
 And it just felt more communal.
 It felt more like people oriented.
 So I...
 But was part of the draw also that you knew Rhonda was there.
 It would be a safe place.
 Mm-hmm, okay.
 All right.
 And she kept convincing me to come back.
 She's like, hey, so when are you moving here?
 Here, come see us.
 And I just liked that I could belong
 without any expectations.
 So 24 years old, you moved to Nashville, okay?
 So you are on American Idol at 17.
 You have this incredible success.
 You then take a step back and you go to Chile
 to be a missionary, right?
 And then it's not 24, you moved to Nashville.
 Yeah. Tell me how Rhonda changed your life
 in a way that became someone who believed in you.
 I feel like it was just the most simple acts of love
 and service and how much of a difference
 those can make is the lesson I learned from Rhonda
 because I just experienced her simple acts
 of love and service firsthand.
 And when I started working in Nashville,
 she would invite me to...
 I was like, hey, I'm gonna come in in Nashville.
 She's like, oh, do you have a somewhere to stay?
 Or do you need a...
 And she's like, come stay with us.
 And I was like, okay, I'll get a...
 And she's like, and don't worry about getting a rental car
 or anything, she's like, we have an extra car here.
 Just use it whenever you want.
 And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like, I don't want to feel...
 Now I was like, okay, I'm feeling like I'm overstepping here.
 This is...
 And I was like, okay, what do you want in return?
 Cause I felt like favors.
 I think I was kind of used to, okay, what do you want in return?
 And she's like, oh no, nothing, just...
 She's like, again, she just started from that point saying,
 I'm just trying to pay it forward.
 And I was like, oh my goodness.
 And she invited me to go work out with her.
 So I first started working out.
 And now working out is a big part of my life.
 And I have Rhonda and her former husband,
 Scott, to thank for that.
 I see your eyes watering, talking about her
 and that moment, why?
 Um, because I think I was used to people,
 I was used to bringing people into my life
 that did things for me.
 Cause I was very, I did not believe in myself.
 Yep.
 I lacked a lot of confidence.
 So it would be like, well, I need someone else to do this for me.
 I need someone else to guide me.
 Rhonda was someone who she treated me
 and she'd call me her buddy.
 She's like, yeah, my, and some people
 and around her knew me as her buddy.
 But you would have a lot of people
 who were buddies per se.
 What was it about that which felt more fulfilling for you
 than the, than the fame had, right?
 You had been famous by the time you met Rhonda,
 but it was something about her
 that also, that, that made it more meaningful, how?
 She just knew how to look at someone as a person.
 And I felt, I felt seen.
 And I'd been seen by a lot of people, you know,
 on American Idol and having my tour and album and singles
 and appearances I was doing all the time.
 And just to have someone who, yeah,
 it was appreciated and admired what I did,
 but it didn't get in the way of her seeing me as a person.
 And I was dealing with a lot of lack of self belief
 and confidence.
 And she helped me to see that in myself.
 You said she was an accountability coach, how so?
 Yeah, she was my accountability partner.
 She would, she would get me, just by inviting me
 to go do stuff, but it was like going to work out.
 She's like, hey, do you want to work out with me?
 And she had P90X, P90X was really big at that time.
 And she was just so fun.
 Like, she made like setting goals and,
 and get it, checking off her to do list, fun.
 And it didn't feel like something that was forced to do.
 It didn't feel obligated.
 It was like, she made me want to do it.
 So even with the working out, like, she'd,
 she'd like, come on, like, do you want to come work out?
 She was just inviting me to join her.
 And, but that doesn't sound like a big deal to me.
 So what did, what made it a big deal for you
 at that space in your life?
 I'm just trying to like get down to the,
 to the core of, it sounds like simple stuff,
 but I know it was very meaningful.
 So I'm just trying to explore more about why it was profound.
 The reason why the working out was so big
 is because working out is now like a big part of my life.
 And like people like right little, you know,
 like the, the gay websites will be like,
 oh, look, they would arch a lot of it.
 Like I'm sure at least or whatever.
 And I'm like, I'm like, oh, what?
 Cause I didn't work out before Rhonda.
 And it's just like fun competition.
 So she'd be like, oh, how many, how many sets did you do?
 Just like, oh, I don't want you to beat me.
 And so she's like, do like five more pushups or something.
 And at night, we would sit at her table
 and, or I would get home, she'd be busy
 and I get home from like my work or writing sessions.
 And she just, she would check up on me and say,
 okay, so how are you doing with your goals?
 Like what are the things that you're hoping to accomplish?
 And she would follow up with me like every week.
 And it wasn't scheduled.
 It wasn't timely thing, but I would get home like,
 I don't know, around 11, 30 midnight.
 And she'd still be there working.
 And she'd just invite me over to come sit.
 And it just, I guess it felt so nice to be seen by someone.
 How was it different than how other adults had treated you?
 The main adult in my life before that was my dad.
 And it was very, it was a very complicated relationship.
 And my dad, he was, he meant well, he was my dad.
 He wanted to protect me and look out for me.
 Sometimes in his protection mode, he,
 I felt like he disempowered me because it led me to be convinced
 that I wasn't capable of doing things
 if he wasn't there.
 And I mentioned a lot about it in my book.
 And yeah, there's Jeff looking at a picture of you
 and your dad, do you call him dad or?
 Yeah, I call him dad, yeah, I call him Jeff or dad.
 Okay.
 You all have a relationship today?
 We have a better relationship than we did here.
 He was a jazz player.
 He was a jazz musician, yeah.
 You grew up in Miami.
 Yeah.
 But then you'll move to Salt Lake where he's from, right?
 Was he Mormon or was your mom?
 They're both Mormon, both.
 Your mom's Honduran, born in Honduras or here?
 Born in Honduras.
 Okay.
 So you moved to Salt Lake at Howold?
 I moved there when I was six years old.
 How important was the church in your life?
 I mean, it was everything.
 The church was everything.
 And honestly, it was, that's part of what helped me
 gravitate towards Ron because she was also a member of,
 or the same church.
 She was Mormon too.
 Yeah, she was Mormon as well.
 She was just more open-minded.
 She was super faithful, but still open-minded,
 open-minded and accepting.
 Something that was interesting about Ronda was,
 one of her really good,
 two of her really good friends were gay.
 And I wasn't out yet.
 And when I tried to come out and say like I was gay,
 I was taught, when you're a Mormon,
 you confess things to your bishop or your church leaders.
 And one of my church leaders said, when I said,
 I think I might be gay.
 And he's like, you're not gay.
 You just struggle with same-sex attraction.
 And he's like, it gay is a sin
 because you're acting on your feelings.
 But if you just have same-sex attraction,
 you're acknowledging you have the feelings,
 but you're not acting on them.
 So you're still good with God.
 I was like, oh, okay.
 So when I was talking to Ronda,
 when we'd have these late-night conversations
 around her table, I did talk to her about my sexuality
 and what did she say when you told her
 you were attracted to men?
 I don't really remember.
 I don't think she really said anything,
 but I think she also saw the inner homophobia that I had
 because the self-homophobia almost.
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, homophobia for myself
 that I didn't really fully process.
 So now I'm understanding a little bit more about Ronda
 and how she believed in you in the sense that
 in some ways tiptoed around the idea that you were gay,
 but she sort of loved you for who you are, who you were.
 And she taught me that I could love myself for who I am,
 even though I didn't yet.
 But that's very powerful, didn't judge you.
 No, didn't judge other people.
 I think it was kind of her way of letting me know,
 like, because she never said it,
 because I don't know, I hadn't come to terms yet,
 but I feel like she was the kind of person
 who always kind of silently let me know in indirect ways.
 If you ever, if this is who you come to terms with being,
 just know there's a place for you here.
 What were your parents, what was their reaction
 when you came out to them?
 So my mom at first said, honey, I love you,
 but I love God more and I can't accept this.
 I love God more.
 Which is common in real religious settings,
 like the one I was in.
 And because she was like, I testify to you,
 God's plan is for you to marry a woman.
 That's his only plan of happiness.
 The only way you can get to the celestial kingdom,
 which is a term that Mormons use for heaven.
 And because there's like different levels of heaven,
 so the celestial is highest.
 And then there's terrestrial and telestial.
 And if you're gay, you go to the celestial kingdom.
 Pretty much.
 So she wanted me to go to the celestial kingdom.
 And she's like, I testify and I was like, mom,
 I get it, I believe all that.
 I believed all that up until a week ago.
 I don't need you to accept what I'm doing.
 I just want you to respect that I make
 in the best decision for me right now.
 And eventually a year later,
 she ended up leaving the church as well.
 Because she said, I don't want to be somewhere
 where my children don't feel loved and welcomed.
 Wow.
 And if you're going to hell, we're all going to hell with you.
 Wow.
 Yeah.
 Okay, that's incredible to go from, I love you,
 but I love God more to, okay, I'm ready to go to hell
 with you within a year.
 Wow.
 How about your dad?
 My dad, I wasn't really talking to him at the time,
 but when it got a lot of news, it was pretty big news,
 particularly in Utah that I'd come out.
 Because you were like the most famous Mormon kid, right?
 Yeah, like, aside from Donnie Marie Osmond,
 it was like David Archuleta,
 was the next household name in Utah and Mormon culture.
 And my dad was, I called him, I was like,
 hey, you probably heard the news like,
 yeah, he's like, I've seen it everywhere.
 He's like, I've had several people send me messages
 and he just said, son, he's like 30 years ago,
 this would have been unheard of.
 A Mormon guy coming out while still in the church,
 he was just like, it's like I'm really proud of you, son.
 Your dad said that.
 Yeah.
 Wow.
 Did that surprise you?
 Yeah.
 I mean, it surprises me a big time.
 It surprises me only, you describe your dad
 sort of in the book as, let's call it a show dad, right?
 Somebody who was, I guess, putting you in competitions
 that you didn't even know, you had been entered in?
 Yeah.
 Like entering you in talent competitions
 like against your will.
 Yeah.
 And I think, you know, and I'm, I look back
 and I'm glad he did because I, even back then
 I didn't believe in myself.
 So I would resent the fact that my dad thought more
 of me than I did.
 Wow.
 I was like, I'm trying to be proctor realistic here.
 You're delusional thinking that your son can do anything.
 And I look back and I'm glad he felt that way
 because I wouldn't, I don't think I would have tried nearly
 as hard to share my singing and my music.
 Had he not pushed me to do it?
 Do you think he was trying to live out his dream
 through you?
 Yeah.
 Oh, interesting.
 Yeah.
 Well, he had a very serious problem.
 I mean, it's, it's according to the publisher here,
 there was crisis struck when a family friend falsely accused
 your father, the family spiritual leader
 of something unforgivable.
 Is it public what that accusation was?
 Yeah, they, they accused my dad of molesting my sisters.
 Yeah, but he didn't.
 He didn't, OK.
 But I, that family friend, I was the first person they told
 before they told even, before my parents even knew,
 they told me I was nine years old.
 So that was, and I had to keep that a secret for a nine-year-old
 until I was like 11, 10-11 is when it started coming forefront.
 But when I was nine, this family friend
 said that it was, I had to help them in their mission,
 which was to get my dad taken away and into prison.
 He wasn't charged with anything.
 But it just left our family feeling really unsure of everything.
 This person told me not to tell anyone,
 but they said that my sister was getting,
 well, touched inappropriately by my dad.
 And I was really close with my sister.
 So I ended up telling her.
 And my sister said, what?
 She's like, that's never touched me like that.
 She's like, but someone else has.
 And it ended up being my step-grandpa on my mom's stepfather,
 who was actually molesting my sister.
 And he's dead now.
 But there are just some crazy accusations still
 made against my sister.
 And just to keep the peace, we didn't pursue either.
 Because it's like if we try to pursue my step-grandpa more,
 they're going to just keep just going for my dad.
 But I was like, if, or are we trying to protect my sisters,
 if that was a point, why are you not listening to her?
 What's the relationship with your sisters now?
 Your two sisters?
 I have three sisters, my oldest sister,
 writing this book helped us get close again.
 Because this was something we didn't talk about.
 Because that's just how we dealt with it.
 Let's just forgive and forget.
 Let's move on.
 And it wasn't until I wrote this book
 that we discussed it again since childhood.
 And my sister, I was like, how do you
 feel about me talking about this?
 I don't want to bring back trauma.
 And she's like, I would love for you to talk about it.
 Because no one ever listened to me.
 And so that was a big reason why I wanted to write the book.
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 I know you've said that what you did best
 was be obedient and compliant.
 Yet, when you were in school, you were so terrified
 about being exposed.
 You switched to homeschooling?
 It was on and off of homeschool.
 So I was homeschooled for the majority of my life.
 It was almost a little more than half.
 Did you want to be homeschooled because you felt ashamed at school?
 Yeah, because people would call me a f*****
 or a girl or a sissy.
 And I didn't know why, because I'm like,
 I'm not trying to be.
 I'm not trying to be a girl.
 So I don't know why you keep calling me that.
 In my research regarding your dad,
 you said you felt like a hostage.
 How so?
 I feel like he showed signs of OCD as well.
 And so that hyperfixation I felt
 was like OCD behavior.
 Like he needed to spend hours with me, either talking at me
 or working on my music and my singing.
 And I would get worn out.
 Like I was like, I'm done.
 Like, can we stop?
 And we wouldn't, because he's like, no, we have to keep going.
 And sometimes you just be staring at me.
 And he always had to know where I was.
 Like just watching me.
 It sounds creepy.
 Did it feel creepy?
 Yeah, it felt really creepy.
 It did.
 And I don't think he realized that he would be staring at me
 because I'd be like, what?
 And he just keeps staring at me like, what?
 And wasn't he banned from the set of American Idol?
 Yeah, he was at a certain point.
 Why, why?
 I guess the producers felt he was overreaching.
 Like he was too involved.
 Like if I was in my rehearsal, he would come and say,
 like, could he do this or can you have this?
 And my dad is very opinionated.
 And it would, but he would buy heads with the producers
 because the producers liked it to be in charge.
 And my dad liked to also be in charge.
 And so there's a time when I was on Star Search,
 he bought heads with them.
 I was on American Idol.
 He bought heads with them.
 And so there's, there's a certain point where they're like,
 okay, he needs to, he can't be around here anymore.
 Star Search photo.
 Have you seen that in a while?
 No, look at me before I had braces.
 So given where you are in your life now,
 looking back on that photo of that kid in Star Search,
 what would you say to him now?
 How do you feel about it now?
 I would say the adults, you don't have to worry so much
 about listening to the adults and obeying what they say
 and following their orders.
 It's not the make or break.
 Adults don't have all the answers.
 Even if they feel like, well, you're the kid
 so you have to listen to what they say
 because you don't know any better.
 Sometimes you do know better than they do.
 Let's go back to Round of the Person who believed in you.
 Did you talk to her about your family dynamic relationship?
 Yeah, when I was living with Rhonda,
 I didn't have a relationship with my dad.
 I had cut him out.
 I had blocked him.
 So I think I was also looking for a sense of family.
 I had my, my mom, she was remarried.
 My stepdad is amazing.
 His name's also David.
 Is it?
 Yeah, and he was looking after my mom,
 but I also felt like the pedestal I'd been placed on in Utah
 kind of seeped into my family.
 And I didn't want to be on a pedestal for people anymore.
 So going to Nashville living with Rhonda,
 you were off that pedestal.
 Yeah.
 How did Rhonda's non-judgmental attitude
 look at your family dynamic?
 What did she say about it?
 She just listened.
 It was nice because the people I was close to before were like,
 my other family and my grandparents or whatever.
 And people would be like, well, he's your dad.
 And you know, family's family no matter what.
 And all that and it was kind of like, y'all don't get it.
 Yeah, I know he's my dad.
 And I let him basically like run me into the ground emotionally
 for 10 years.
 Has he ever apologized?
 Yes, it has.
 How is he today?
 He's doing a lot better.
 What's the relationship like?
 We found ways to bond over things other than music,
 which I think is what we needed.
 Is he still pushing you to do things?
 No, no, it's been like over a decade since that.
 Maybe even 15 years.
 But I had to block him.
 I had to not talk to him for like seven years.
 I had to set boundaries.
 So learning how to say no.
 And just because someone is close to you
 doesn't mean they can take advantage of you.
 That's what I learned.
 She died of a brain tumor in 2020.
 Again, through this whole conversation,
 the only time your eyes water is when you think about her.
 Yeah, I mean, you see in this picture of her
 and thinking about her, you know, she's not someone
 that gets brought up.
 So it's okay.
 So I got another one for you.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, she's not here.
 But if you could talk to her today,
 what would you want to say?
 Yeah, if I had a chance, I would just say thank you.
 Thank you so much for giving me a safe place to be.
 A place where I felt noticed,
 not for the things everyone else noticed me for.
 And just making me feel, help me feel like I belonged.
 You read her bedside, I believe, when she died.
 When she was dying, yeah,
 I met her, her then at the time,
 husband, Scott, let me stay there with them.
 I, it was the week that everything shut down for COVID.
 Yeah.
 And they called me while she was still conscious.
 And they're just like, hey, like, you know,
 they just wanted me to be able to say bye to her.
 And I was in Tennessee at the time.
 And I was just like, no, like after everything she's done for me,
 like, there's no way I can, that my by will be over the phone.
 So I texted her, her daughter Kelsey and her husband,
 Scott, and I just said, wow, would it be okay if I,
 if I found a flight tonight or tomorrow,
 could I just come and be there with you all?
 And they said, yes.
 And she lost consciousness at that point.
 They're like, well, she, you know, she's can still hear us.
 And I was like, I would just love to be there
 because I don't want this person's way too important for me to just,
 you know, mind my own business here in Tennessee,
 when I'm here in Tennessee because of her.
 So I, she was in Utah with her family at the time.
 And so I flew over there.
 They let me stay with Scott and her.
 And I would just sit there and Scott was like,
 Scott was pretty worn out at that time.
 He had just been kind of waiting for her to pass
 and they didn't know when it was going to happen.
 So he's like, yeah, just say her.
 You can like hold her hand and talk to her.
 I'm sure she would love to hear a song from you
 if you wanted to sing.
 And so I did, I sat there and I,
 saying, there, because that's, I didn't always know what to say.
 But I just felt like she loved music.
 And so I was just hummed silently to her, hold her hand
 and let her know.
 I was just so grateful for her.
 And I was grateful that I could do that in person
 before she passed on.
 And like the next morning, there was a bigger earthquake,
 not a bigger earthquake, but bigger than what we were used
 to getting in Utah.
 Like shook everything, we're like, what just happened?
 We went down and checked and the breathing machine was still on.
 And then about an hour later, I didn't hear the breathing machine anymore.
 And so I just kind of popped my head over and I just saw it was,
 I was like, you know, I don't, I don't want to be the person to find
 her officially.
 So I went up and let Scott know and just said, hey, Scott,
 I don't hear Rell Ronda's machine anymore.
 And he went and checked and she had passed.
 But, you know, I, and I got to sing at her funeral.
 They didn't, they weren't able to hold a proper funeral
 because lockdown prohibited any gatherings, large gatherings.
 But they let me be there because she,
 they said she looked at me as one of her kids.
 And I sang, I can only imagine by mercy me because she had told
 someone when it was on the radio, she started crying.
 She's like, you know, I, you know, I would love for this to be
 played up my funeral.
 And so I sang it and yeah.
 But she just, she just saw the good and everybody like,
 she would hold guitar rounds at her house.
 She would invite everyone over for dinner and then just like,
 yeah, let's bring a guitar and let's just have a guitar round
 because that's a pop everything in Nashville.
 So everyone just takes turns writing a song that they wrote.
 And just I don't know what it was, but there's just this feeling.
 It was just so grounding.
 Any anxiety that you had or caring with you,
 it just like you walked into her home and it was gone.
 And everyone felt like that.
 That's why everyone wanted to be around her.
 All these other musicians and friends and people,
 people are always coming to her house.
 A lot of my frustrations with my dad,
 I talked through with Ronda.
 And she never, she never took too much of my side,
 but she always made me feel seen in my emotions
 so that I could process them.
 And with the end goal to be able to heal and move forward.
 And so as simple as my moments were with her,
 there were always with this motivation to grow
 and to move forward in my life.
 And that was so nice because she wasn't trying to say,
 oh, your poor little defenseless bird,
 like we need to take care of you or you can't do that.
 She would always encourage me to learn
 how to become an adult, but she made me want to.
 She made me feel like I could.
 That's why the gym thing, I was like,
 oh, I can't work out because I always would injure myself
 and I would, but she didn't force me to.
 She just made me want to do something good for myself.
 And so whether that was working hours,
 working through my trauma or writing songs,
 she'd be like, oh, what are you gonna, what do you think?
 She would help me brainstorm songs I would write.
 I did an album called Postcards on the Sky
 and I wrote all of that basically
 when I was living with Rhonda.
 And a lot of the songs that I wrote,
 like the motions that I processed,
 like after coming back from being a more of a missionary
 were things that I discussed while I was at the table
 at the table with Rhonda late at night.
 So it was subtle things, but like what?
 She just asked me how my writing sessions would go.
 She would ask me about spirituality.
 We'd talk about God.
 She would ask me about my dating life,
 all my frustrations.
 She met all of my ex, ex fiancees.
 The girls.
 Yeah.
 Oh, except for her.
 No, I take that back.
 She met two of them because she passed away by the last one.
 But she never met a guy you dated.
 No, no.
 Do you wish she could have seen that?
 Yeah, because I know she would have
 done supportive, she would have loved to have met them.
 What do you think she would say
 of you being out now?
 Open and happy.
 One of my friends that I would get like,
 foot zone from this lady messaged me one time.
 After I came out and she's like,
 I'm so happy for you.
 And she was also a Mormon,
 but like Mormons outside of Utah are a lot more loose
 and relaxed than ones in Utah tend to be.
 And she told me how she talked to Rhonda one time about.
 She's like, when do you think David will learn to accept himself?
 And Rhonda just said, I think Rhonda said,
 like he'll figure it out.
 He'll figure it out.
 So I was, and I think that was really nice to hear because
 Rhonda knew.
 Rhonda knew in her heart long before you were ready to say.
 Yeah, I think what Rhonda knew was it wasn't a matter of helping
 you find your truth.
 It was helping you find the right time to tell it.
 I think that's what Rhonda knew.
 And what a blessing that in the time she had,
 she was able to convey that to you.
 Yeah, just, she was a really amazing woman.
 Now I understand why you feel that she was the person
 who believed in you.
 Yeah, she really did, she, yeah.
 And it was like in the way I needed to.
 I didn't need someone to believe I was the best singer
 in the world, right?
 I just needed someone to believe in my healing.
 And I think Rhonda was healing.
 Wow.
 Yeah, Rhonda was the person who was that for me.
 And that was something I wasn't surrounded by.
 Did she ever tell you what you gave to her?
 Yeah, because sometimes I would be like,
 maybe I would ask other people,
 I'm like, why does she like me hanging out on it?
 I'm like, I don't really say anything.
 Right, right.
 Really shy.
 But I should just say that I was peaceful for her to be around.
 That I had a grounding like her.
 I can feel that sitting at this table.
 You do.
 You have a grounding energy.
 Thank you.
 You do.
 You know when you meet people who you just sense
 that their soul is like real pure.
 Like I kind of get that vibe from you.
 And look, I grew up Catholic.
 I still am.
 Not a practicing.
 My mother will not be happy to hear that.
 She knows I'm gonna go to church on Sunday.
 But I do believe in God.
 My point is, I think you,
 even though you've left the Mormon church,
 I'm gonna assume you still believe in God.
 I would consider myself agnostic, agnostic.
 I believe that there is, the Mormon God was very specific.
 Yes.
 Like they would teach, we know that God is a man
 with a body of flesh and bones and is married.
 Which is why we need to get married as well.
 Okay.
 It's hard for me to know who knows who God is
 because when I came out, God presented him or itself
 in a very different way than I was ever taught.
 And how was I?
 No, we're near as judgmental.
 No, we're not caring anywhere as much about all the rules
 that I thought I needed to worry and care about.
 It's not care that I was queer.
 And when you say God presented themself or himself as that,
 how did that show up?
 How did that presentation happen?
 I was on my knees praying in Nashville.
 And I just was begging God to change me.
 I was like, this is my last chance,
 my last effort to ask God my last ditch effort of faith.
 Because I don't think I have any more left in me
 to have the faith to be healed and changed
 from what I thought was my problem at the time,
 to be healed, to be straight.
 And God said, David, stop asking me this.
 Because I don't see you the same way.
 Everyone else around you sees you.
 All the religious well-meaning people
 trying to follow me.
 They don't see me.
 They don't see you the way I do.
 And they don't get it.
 And it's time for you to get it.
 It's time for you to understand that.
 You keep asking me to change your sexuality.
 There's no reason to.
 I don't see any problem with it.
 And that was like a huge...
 I was like, huh?
 So why are you agnostic?
 If you had that encounter with what is the God forcing your life,
 why are you agnostic?
 Because that's so many people telling me
 discrediting my experience, saying that wasn't God.
 Remember that the devil can appear as an angel of light,
 a deceiver, and that's what you're happening.
 Because there's no way God would tell you
 that being gay is okay.
 And I was just like, well, guess what?
 That's what he said.
 So I'm like, but David,
 you do know that there are representatives of God on this earth
 who are far more accepting and tolerant than your faith.
 So, I mean, is there a world in which
 you're back in church, praise and worshiping
 in a place where you being who God made you to be?
 And yes, I said that.
 You were exactly who God made you to be.
 Is there a place where you go to a place
 where they believe that, and yet they still praise and worship?
 After I came out, I was still going to church for a year after.
 Trying to show, I was like, just because I fall in love with a man,
 doesn't mean that my relationship with God is any less than anyone else's.
 Right.
 But as I try to make sense of the Mormon church's beliefs,
 and why they felt so strongly that God's doctrine was anti-homosexuality.
 Yeah.
 I started seeing too many loopholes in religion in general.
 So I was like, trying to make sense of it.
 And I was like, the more I try to make sense of it,
 the more I realize there are a lot of answers that they don't have.
 And they try to make it seem like they do.
 And I was just like, I don't, so I was like,
 is the Book of Mormon even real?
 I was like, I'm pretty sure that someone made this up.
 And everyone keeps telling me, well, Joseph Smith,
 there's no, it was a miracle that he wrote this and the time that he wrote it,
 all the details and the complexity.
 I was like, look at Jared, a token writing Lord of the Rings.
 Like, I feel like that's way more complex.
 And he was, and he created like different languages and everything.
 One guy, why couldn't Joseph Smith do that with the Book of Mormon?
 He wrote it in English, and there were still like errors.
 And like, he was saying like there are animals in the America's that weren't here,
 but they're like, oh, well, it was prehistoric.
 And I don't know, it's just like,
 they were finding so many ways of like, well, when he said horses,
 he meant the, oh, what is that animal?
 Opachy, Ocopy, the, I don't know.
 There is just like too many ways of justifying something that wasn't adding up.
 And I was like, okay, if they've done this with the Book of Mormon,
 what else have they done this with?
 I'm like, the Bible's a story that I feel like maybe it's,
 the Book of Mormon is just a newer version, but someone wrote it.
 And it has good teachings in it.
 But how do I know that the Bible isn't the same thing as the Book of Mormon?
 I'm like, okay, Noah's Ark, two of every animal.
 Like, you know, why did God require Abraham to sacrifice Isaac?
 It was just very hard for me to, to see it not as stories that people believed in.
 So what do you believe in today?
 Is it the universe is that what do you believe?
 I believe that when I go to an EDM festival or a rave,
 somewhere that I was told not to stay away from growing up,
 I feel the same connection to a higher being and higher power to God
 than I did in church.
 Because everyone is there, unified, there's love and respect.
 Sometimes festivals can get there are people that don't have that plurr culture,
 which is peace, love, unity, respect, responsibility.
 But neither do churches.
 Sometimes they're like, yeah, you go there with an intention
 that everyone to connect, but some people are just grinding me people
 and have ill intentions.
 But when I go to a festival or a rave,
 and you just connect to the rhythm and the music,
 it feels like primal.
 Like a primal instinct where it's like,
 you don't need all the bells and whistles to feel connected
 to something bigger than all of us.
 Talk to the Mormon who is watching this,
 or listening to this, and is gay.
 I would say,
 the church, there are a lot of wonderful things about being raised in it,
 growing up, I think we learn how to be respectful,
 to be serving kind, to think of a greater purpose than just ourselves.
 I love those importance of family of community.
 And so I, if it's somewhere that you still want to be long,
 but it's very difficult,
 I hope you know that it is okay to take a break if you need to,
 to discover yourself.
 And if the environment that you're in doesn't allow you to see yourself
 the way God sees you, it's okay to give yourself a break.
 There are certain communities, the congregations,
 and certain leaders who are pro-LDBT,
 key plus community, who are supportive,
 who want to see a change in the church.
 And then the tricky part is it depends on the roulette of it all,
 the luck of the draw, is your leader,
 one of those who's compassionate and understanding,
 or they want a one who is following tradition of nope,
 homosexuality is a sin.
 But be willing to have the conversations,
 let your heart be known.
 I've seen the most progress within the church happen
 when I just spoke honestly,
 let them know the heartbreak that I felt,
 because the church has,
 all throughout the years has tried to paint gay people as sinners
 who just want to leave who are lazy.
 When you are honest with them and say,
 this is how hard it's been for me,
 it immediately starts to break up the misconceptions.
 About what it means to be gay.
 And, you know, so if you choose to,
 I hope that you can have open and honest conversations
 and let them know your heartbreak.
 Do you feel called to make change within the church?
 I feel like I have no choice but to.
 I mean, I didn't have any choice
 to be the poster boy that they made me for the church,
 but I still tried to be a good Mormon.
 And so just, if that wasn't a choice,
 I don't see why this, I mean, it is a choice
 that I want to make, but it's almost like,
 David, the church won't change unless,
 if you just walk away, the church will change
 if you, in some way, fight back based on who God made you to be.
 I mean, I feel that way about my own Catholic faith.
 I'm a Catholic, I don't give a shit.
 What people say, I'm not, I haven't left church.
 I don't go every Sunday, but nobody's going to tell me
 that I am wrong for being exactly who I was made to be.
 And I think good Catholics and good Mormons
 have to stand up.
 I don't know if you feel that way.
 Yeah, I don't see, I don't want to be like spearheading
 like the whole, like, I just, I hope you stand up this way.
 You stand up this way publicly.
 Yeah.
 That's 17 year old David would have never envisioned him
 sitting here saying what he's saying today.
 That's what I'm talking about.
 So you are doing the standing up.
 It's not fire in Brimstone at the altar.
 You're doing it.
 This clip's gonna get sent to gay people.
 And I think you're serving, you're serving
 that young kiddo at Star Search who didn't even want to be there.
 You're serving him well by what you're doing today.
 You come a long way, my friend.
 Thank you.
 Growing up with like homophobia and homophobic rhetoric,
 where it's like, I would be told like all the time
 and we would be taught gay people aren't happy,
 they're miserable, they're only perverts.
 The only thing about sex and all they want is sex,
 which is why they don't want a family and like a marriage.
 And then I started meeting people who were gay
 in gay relationships for like over 30 years.
 Can my publicists include it?
 He was one of my first examples where it's like,
 just seeing him and meeting his husband,
 it's just like an immediate, oh, that was wrong.
 Like all I had to do was see it and that they were happy
 and that they were together and I kept meeting
 other people who were married and had kids.
 But that's how you change lives, David.
 For me, it's not about marching in front of parades
 or pounding on podiums.
 It's about showing up with my partner, Jeremy,
 and walking on the street of our neighborhood
 sometimes holding hands.
 I mean, all these people who think that
 gays are sleazy and all this stuff,
 I wish you could come over to my house
 and realize how damn normal my life is.
 It says cranky is yours, miserable is yours.
 Like it's so normal, but I think the way we spread acceptance
 is just by living naturally and normally every day.
 Just by showing up as you, with your boo,
 which by the way, have you found love?
 I have had, you have.
 I have had, yeah.
 And when you had it, how did it feel?
 It just felt natural, you know, natural.
 That's it. That's it. Yeah.
 And to add to what you were saying,
 because so many people in religion still say,
 well, why do you have to, why do you have to be,
 like just, I don't care, just keep it to yourself.
 It's like, no, I can't keep it to myself
 because that's what I've been doing all my life.
 And it took seeing someone else not keeping it to themselves
 for me to have more courage.
 Yes.
 To be myself.
 Yes.
 And so it's like, I can't keep it to myself
 because there's someone else who just by seeing me
 will feel that same permission to be themselves.
 Just like the way I felt it with, like seeing Ken, you know,
 what I'm talking about.
 People write to me today and literally tell me
 how seeing me living openly helped them come out.
 That's powerful.
 This condition with your voice.
 So I saw you on a TV show fairly recently
 and I thought there's something about when you're in between
 the words that I was like, almost like you sounded short
 of breath and having trouble breathing.
 So tell us about it.
 You had a viral condition when you were how old?
 I was 12.
 Called.
 I'm not sure what the viral thing was
 because that's just what they believe it is.
 But following the viral infection or whatever it was,
 I got a vocal chord paralysis.
 Okay.
 And what happened?
 You couldn't sing.
 One of my vocal chords doesn't move.
 It moves a little bit, but not enough for it to really function well.
 So I have one vocal chord that does all the work.
 And the muscles that bring the vocal chord closer to move,
 that portion is paralyzed.
 So my vocal chords can't come together normally.
 I did voice therapy for like three years
 to help strengthen my voice so that I could speak.
 You think you sound better because of the paralysis?
 I get tired more easily, but I feel like I have just as good of...
 Like I'm not far behind other season performers
 with my endurance, which is a, I'm really grateful for.
 But it took a lot of work, it took years of therapy.
 And I have to be consistent and I've had to find ways
 because I'm on American Idol.
 I was just like, I'm not...
 If I have to go on a tour after this,
 there's no way I can do that.
 But you just find a way to pace yourself
 and I kept doing voice therapy
 and the doctors through checking,
 they're like, this is a miracle of God.
 And so I was...
 And I have my voice therapist who also served
 as my voice coach, Dean Kaelin, to think for that.
 People think your voice is hot, don't they?
 Yeah, they'll be like, oh, David, do ASMR.
 Just do ASMR.
 No totally, totally.
 Do you think you've become more successful in a way
 because that happened to you?
 Yeah, because on American Idol, they wanted a story.
 And when I was there with the producers,
 they went after I sang, they're like,
 your voice is so wheezy, it's really annoying to listen to.
 And I talk about it in my memoir,
 but I was like, oh, that's because I have
 a paralyzed vocal cord.
 And they're just like, what did you just say?
 And afterwards they came out and they're like,
 okay, what's your story tell us about your life?
 I'm like, well, I was in choir,
 my parents are musicians.
 And one of the producers comes out, Megan,
 she's one of the head producers of the American Idol now.
 And she's like, did he tell you that he has
 a paralyzed vocal cord?
 And Jason, the producer who's interviewed me is like,
 no, he did not.
 And I was like, oh, I'm like, why?
 Why do I need to get it?
 I'm like, I don't want to talk about this.
 I'm like, it was like a moment I don't want to think
 about it in my life, but they wanted to highlight it
 because it was like, they love the overcome her story
 and they're like, okay, so they like played
 like the dramatic music behind it.
 And I was like, okay, I guess.
 I mean, it was life changing because I think
 that's why they wanted to.
 I mean, I already knew that they were very interested
 in me before that, which was encouraging.
 Like in one of the first interviews,
 I talked in the book as well.
 One of the people who worked on Idol came up to my dad
 and they're like, you know, your son could win this whole thing.
 And I was kind of like, how do they already know that?
 I'm like, I don't, but I didn't know how it all worked.
 But then when they found out that I had the paralyzed vocal cord,
 it was just like, we've got our story.
 Storyless guys.
 Yeah, and so, but I've met other people
 who've had those issues as well.
 And it's just kind of nice to help other singers know like,
 hey, you can still sing and, you know, it can take work
 because it can be very scary to hear that.
 But if you have the patients and are willing to do the work
 and the therapy and find proper balance
 so that you can maintain your endurance,
 you know, that you can overcome obstacles.
 It's another example of you leaning into exactly
 how God made you.
 Mm-hmm.
 Yeah, where you think it's a flaw.
 100%?
 Like an error, but then it's like, no, actually.
 100%.
 I believe that when I get to heaven,
 God's going to have a lot to say to His people.
 Right?
 There's going to be a whole waiting room of God's people
 who are waiting to sing.
 And nothing about who I am is wrong because it's who I am.
 I just, I'm sorry, I'm very, I'm very bullish on that.
 And it's why I get so stuff when I hear about how people
 like you are treated because some people
 it sends them over an edge.
 Were you ever suicidal?
 Yeah, it's, it's what led to that final prayer as well.
 But it was at the end of my last ink of the three engagements.
 And yeah, I got suicidal and just thought,
 was the point, like if I can't,
 from the Mormon doctrine perspective, it was homosexuality
 is on par with murder, with pedophilia.
 So I was like, I'm basically, so I'm basically
 in that category of the worst of the worst, which
 would put my making to heaven at stake.
 And Mormons believe that you can still
 have a chance for repentance even after this life.
 And that even if you can't have your family in this life,
 the family is eternal so you can have it after this life.
 So I kind of, as I've learned after opening up about it,
 how often this scenario occurs,
 it's a common place that queer people
 in the Mormon church get to because they
 think what's worse, losing my chance
 to be in heaven with my family by being gay.
 Or I take my life before this gainess over comes me
 and overtakes me.
 And I still have a chance to be with my family
 and with God after this life.
 So a lot of people choose to take their own life.
 I almost made that decision as well.
 And there's a bit of a hopelessness,
 but also there was a bit of peace with it
 because I thought it's OK, because I'm
 making the best decision for my family.
 They may not understand right now,
 because they don't understand the extent of these demons,
 this gainess that's overcoming me right now.
 But when I see them after this life,
 we will be together for eternity, and that's what matters.
 So I had written my will.
 I had divided whatever I had to my siblings.
 I had put my sisters in charge of whatever
 delicacy my sister Chalsey's sharp, like I mentioned.
 I was like, she'll know how to do this in a fair just way.
 The thing that scared me the most to fall through with it
 is if I didn't succeed.
 And then I would have to live, like I would
 if I ended up paralyzed or like paraplegic or something.
 And I really wouldn't be able to do anything
 about my feelings at that point.
 I was just like, that's what scared me.
 But the brain was where I, there's
 like this moment from like being numb for a long time
 that I just felt not numb anymore.
 Like I felt something I hadn't felt anything.
 Like I was like on the couch, I wasn't eating.
 I wasn't talking to anyone.
 It was like this paralysis in a way where it's like,
 I would be sitting and I would sit the whole day.
 Like it would start getting dark.
 And I just felt like it's, it's dark already.
 And I don't, I don't really know how to describe that.
 I looked back and I was like, wow, how did I waste so much time?
 Well, I can do that today.
 But I just wasn't that state of mind at the time.
 And but there was a moment where I finally felt something.
 So I was like, oh, that's God.
 And so that's when I immediately dropped to my knees.
 And I thought, okay, God, if you're there, please fix me.
 I'm helped me to change.
 I don't want to be what you don't want me to be.
 Like I am so exhausted of trying to change.
 I don't know how else, what else,
 what more I can do at this point.
 And that's when God said, David, stop asking me.
 So then did faith in some way save you?
 I think so.
 I feel like, I feel like if I didn't have faith,
 I probably would have been able to figure that out sooner.
 I don't think I wouldn't have.
 If it weren't for the faith I was grew up with,
 I don't think I would have gotten so close to taking my life.
 Like I almost went through with it.
 And other people do and have.
 So I feel like, yes, a moment of prayer helped me get there.
 I had to look outside of my faith
 in order to finally accept myself.
 And other people took their life believing
 that they did it in good faith.
 So it was part of my journey,
 but I also feel like there's the other side of it too.
 Let's end forward looking.
 What's next for you?
 For me, like the theme that I'm trying to go with
 is instead of being devout to an external factor
 and external validation from parents
 or religious leaders is being devoted to within.
 And you could call that God.
 You could call that your higher self.
 And I just feel like that's been a better,
 more steady place to build my life on.
 What are you now devoted to?
 I'm devoted to just being grateful to be alive.
 I feel like I'm just grateful for the day I get.
 Like, oh, like, what can I experience today?
 What can I create?
 Who can I meet?
 What food can I try?
 What DJ set can I go to?
 And I just like, you know, I think it's just the theme of,
 I almost chose to not be here.
 I almost wasn't here.
 And like every day I get now from this point is a bonus.
 Because I almost thought that the right thing for me
 to have done for my spiritual, for my solidation
 was to end it.
 And so I'm like, you know, it,
 so I just try to take care of myself.
 I go to the gym, I try to eat a balanced meal
 but still I'll have fun.
 You eat some good fun food too and eat ice cream
 and things too and not take everything so seriously.
 And make music that makes me feel confident
 and comfortable in my own skin,
 like manifesting how that feels.
 It's so nice.
 A lot of my music before was kind of like,
 well, I'm not there yet.
 You know, one day I'll get there and it's like,
 no, like, it's today.
 I'm like, if you died tomorrow, David,
 don't take so long to accomplish what you want to accomplish
 or what you want to try.
 And I've lived on this theme of,
 I released songs to go with the devout book,
 which is the devout EP.
 And one of the songs is called On Purpose,
 which is to make mistakes on purpose.
 And sometimes you're like, oh my gosh, why did I do that?
 I can't believe I did that.
 But it's like, it's okay to mess up.
 That's how you live and learn and grow.
 And I was so afraid of messing up before.
 And now I, it's still like a little bit of like shame
 that you've experienced, but it's also like,
 I'm so glad that I give myself the chance
 to make mistakes.
 You are not a mistake.
 You.
 Yeah.
 You are not a mistake.
 Yeah.
 You believe that now.
 I do now, yeah.
 I didn't before, but, you know, I think it's,
 for the last five years, it's been a really wonderful
 shift of perspective.
 And I'm grateful for it.
 Ah.
 I'm David Archaleta, and the person who believed in me
 was Rhonda Sherman Ford.
 I thought you might want to know, but this podcast
 is at the heart of a company I founded called Do Good Crew.
 I've spent 25 years telling stories.
 It used to be the bad news, and now I want to focus
 on the good news, the everyday heroes
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 You can join us.
 We do live events, but we also have a newsletter.
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 You can sign up for it by going to www.TheDoGoodCrew.com.
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