Jingle All the Way and Being a Present Parent

Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster movies and psychoanalyze them.
My name is Bernie Brownfield and I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by
Ben Stover, individual therapist, Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're
all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists, who practice out of Chicago.
Even though we are licensed mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for
entertainment purposes and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture and all forms.
Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists, we aren't your
therapist. If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find a local
mental health provider. Welcome to Holiday Season twenty twenty three. In today's episode,
we will be doing a movie that one of us had not seen ever,
and two of us had probably not seen since we were eleven years old.
And as we rewatched it today, we realized we may have made a
horrible choice. And I'm sorry. Whose fault is that it is mine?
I am reek, it's my fault. It's wanting us to do jingle all
the way for two years. That's accurate for two years. I thought there
would be lots of interesting things for us to talk about, about, like
a family having to go through looking at a dad who's overworking, and how
to kind of manage the erosion of trust and the damaging of relationships. And
what I forgot is that this movie is garbage. Yeah. Basically, if
you want to talk about here about the things Bendes brought out, listened to
our episode on hook from last Christmas Season or Missus stubtfire, yes to Rob
Williams classics. What we got out of this was none of that. A
Schwarzenegger feast that he made twenty point two million dollars on What an Asshole?
Well, I mean the prime of his career pretty much the nineties. This
is mid nineties. This is the start of the decline, probably where it
took I think end of Days to bounce back from this one, or maybe
some bad Terminator sequels. So this movie is supposed to be Schwarzenegger near the
prime of his career, and it is I think the start of the decline.
Ultimately, it is a Christmas stinker. Was tonally a mess. The
jokes fell flat in a lot of places, and as we prepare to look
at the family relationships in this film. So what we'll start with is the
plot summary. So what happens here is that a mattress sales King of Minnesota
in this film natural natural fit. Yikes, A natural fit is a total
workhol and we're seeing right from the get go that he is missing a lot
of things that his kid is doing. His kid lets us know right off
the bat that he is never there. He is always missing things, and
the disappointment is getting quite raw and the family is getting very angry with him
and starting to just count him out of stuff. As we go through the
course of this film, we see that his little boy is obsessed with a
very Power Rangers esque show called Turbo Man and needs it. Needs it.
He needs it because Dad won't show up, so he needs a strong jawed
gentleman in his life to provide fatherly guidance since he doesn't get that from Dad.
We see the family erosions start to take place, and Dad thinks that
if he makes a promise to his son that he'll just get him something special
for Christmas, maybe something that Santa ironically is too busy this time of year
to guarantee. The same year, the same the tam Alan bonk san off
of a roof No two years later. I also watched that this weekend.
That was much better. Sure the sequels were not. I'll tell you this
right now. This movie is so bad. Buckle up, everybody. This
movie is so bad that it made me grateful that I'm child free. You
know what I mean. I mean, I choose to be a child free.
But this movie is so bad that I will continue to be child free,
so I have to subject myself to these kind of movies. So any
who in the uh you know, the realm of the Power Ranger toys and
the Cabbage Patch kids not being available. The movie takes off from there,
where Howard goes on an impossible quest to bring his child this present that he
promised Santa Claus might even be too busy to get, but I, who
never shows up, can, in fact to get it for you, to
make up for all my shortcomings as a crappy dad, which he then fails
to do because they've been sold out for months, so much so that even
this travesty of a movie. Arnold Schwarzenegger Native Minnesotans, King of Minapolis,
The King of Minneapolis, Mattress sales, who is inauspiciously supporting an Austrian accent.
You have nothing to see here, y'all. Nobody talks about. Is
too busy selling mattresses to ever be present for his kid, and we start
to see a family breaking apart because he is always at work pursuing the American
dream of always being able to provide enough money to buy your kids all the
toys that they want, except for Turboman, which has been sold out for
months. And Arnold misses his kid's karate promotion and then makes a promise he
has no idea he can't fulfill and goes on a merry adventure trying desperately to
bring home this Turboman toy for his son and gets into a conflict with myrin
As played by Sinbad as both fathers who just can't get it together, and
they go on this ridiculous adventure that results in them becoming the hero and the
villain Turboman and whatever. This villain's name is, Yeah, brain and a
brain and a jar, Brain, brainon a jar. There's no consequences for
anyone despite committing numerous felonies on the way, except for Sinbad. Yeah,
which is that's pretty bad, considering he's the only prominent character of color in
the whole entire movie. Mm hmm, correct, yep, and never mind
that they commit near equal felonies. He smiles and as Arnold gets to be
anointed a hero by his child and he gets haled off to jail, able
to give his child the toy. H this movie was bad. Is pretty
bad, guys bad, It's bad. It's not good. Nobody liked it,
and I'm annoyed that we have to talk about it. And that was
the only one who's never seen us. So you're welcome. Yeah, So,
as we discussed this movie, we're gonna be kind of looking at the
themes that will be explained to you by our very own Brittany Brownfield. Well,
in this movie, we're going to be talking about dads who can't quite
get their shit together. In this movie, we have two fathers who,
instead of acknowledging that they are not showing up in their kids' lives in a
way that is actually positive and parenting, they spend all their energy on a
Christmas Eve that lasts I don't know, twenty four to forty eight hours at
least in the daylight. This movie is stuck also in an alternate dimension where
it does not go dark after hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.
But anyhow, Yeah, I mean, I think this movie is just
a prominent display of two dads, specifically Arnold. I can focus on him
who has no clue about how to actually be an active parent in his kid's
life, and rather than acknowledge that fact and the fact that he's continuously disappointing
his kid Jamie, he instead will just put himself in repeated peril both literal,
legal, etc. Rather than acknowledge how he is truly letting his kid
down, this turboman becomes a symbol of him making it up to his kid
or not being a dick bag. Like I just kept thinking, if these
both these dudes could just acknowledge where they are disappointing their children, they wouldn't
have to do this. It makes me think of in when I work with
clients in real life, how they will get really stuck on an objective or
they can't let go of something like I need to do this, I need
to have this milestone, I need to get this thing right, And it
becomes like I don't know what the word I'm looking for but they can't get
off of it, and it becomes more of like, what are you trying
to achieve? What does this actually mean? What is this goal a symbol
of? And why does it feel so hard to let it go? And
I think this movie is a case of these two guys who can't let go
of this idea of finding Turboman because then what does that mean? They can't
fix the problem that is their relationship with their kids. They cannot because they
are very much stuck in this idea that I can fix it, and they
have no concept whatsoever or what it would take to actually fix it. Yeah,
because I'll tell you this right now. In the opening scene of this
movie, when Arnold is on the telephone to all of his customers that he
loves, he does not seem like a man who is wrecked by his life.
What I mean by that is he seems quite happy. Actually, he
seems like jolly is He doesn't seem to be torn up about the fact that
he's missing his kids thing. He doesn't even seem torn up after he's missed
it. He got torn up. But I think it goes very quickly to
well can I fix it? Let's make joke He doesn't seem like a guy
who is really acknowledging the problem. He doesn't seem like somebody who has awareness
at all that this is the problem. Yeah, that this is an actual
problem with a human. I think he writes off his kid very easily as
not having enough importance in some ways to warrant a serious, thoughtful conversation.
And either old boy can't do it in general because he has, you know,
the intelligence of an aunt, or or he doesn't think it's that important,
Like he doesn't think that kids can can feel big feelings. I think
I don't know if I agree with those I see man, Well, I
mean they see the impetis of the entire movie is that he knows that the
kid has the big feelings and he doesn't want his kid to be hurt.
But I think it's about him. But it's all about him. It's definitely
about him and him facing consequences. But the consequences he's afraid of are his
kid having the big feeling. Sure, though, what we see is his
inability to take responsibility to make the changes that would work. I don't think.
I don't think he's that thoughtful. No that I agree on, Yeah,
I don't think he is the best emotional intelligence. Yeah, which is
probably the fault of the movie, and it's horrible writing. Then the actual
person we're discussing character itself, because well, one, yeah, the way
that he well, I'll say this, the scene where he misses the karate
and then the kids pissed at him and then he goes into his room and
is trying to joke around like win him over. It did make me curious.
And I'm giving this movie way too much credit than it deserves. It
did make me curious if that was like Arnold's role as a kid and his
family, Like, was he the peacekeeper slash like class clown, the person
of the family who's more the jokester who breaks attention, And that's like his
coping strategy, because go to move when there is tension in a family dynamic.
He just that seemed like his go to move. But I was pleasantly
surprised that he quickly went to apologizing. I really felt like he was going
to be that guy who just tries to light in the mood and doesn't even
say I'm sorry to his kids. So at least there was that. I
mean, I'm give him a little shred that he did apologize, but I
think it took too long. Well, it took too long for sure.
Apologizing should have been the first thing he did. Yeah, not this long
jokey thing where he only apologizes because my kid's not playing my game with me.
Yeah. And I think his kid's probably getting old enough now where the
kid is holding on more to these moments when he's being disappointed that he can't
joke with him anymore. He's not a little little kid anymore, where he
is like a shorter attention span and you can kind of keep it moving.
The kid is now retaining patterns of behavior and holding on to hurt feelings in
a way that is just developmentally what's going to happen. And it's going to
make it harder for an hour to fall back on old behaviors that he's going
to have to rise to the occasion or not. And then the kid's going
to have an estranged relationship with you. Well, we already see this kid
who's pretty young already writing his dad off like you were saying, Hanah,
I think like he's already saying in the very beginning of this movie, he
misses everything. This is a kid that's already giving up on his father in
like second grade. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a dad
that needs to he needs to start doing his own growing up or he's going
to his kid's got to grow up past him pretty quickly. Yeah, he's
gonna find out really fast that what kids depend on adults for is stability,
insistency of their needs being met. And that doesn't only include their material needs.
It includes their emotional needs. Yeah, it includes their needs for comfort,
their needs for belonging, their needs for approval. And you can't give
those things remotely. You can't give those things in absentia, and you can't
give those things by buying someone a present because they got their purple belt.
Yeah. Well, the filmmakers did do a great job of showing as little
Jake Lloyd's character broke that box to get that purple belt, he looked back
to see where his dad was. Yeah, and dad didn't even have enough
brain to sit down with the kid and say immediately upon walking in, let's
watch your video show me your belt. That's true. I didn't really ask
him about it. I think he put it on his head to be but
that was part of his ploy to like win him over. But also I
thought was very disrespectful. That's also that like, like a kid, this
kid is learning something about being There's just so many parts of being in karate
that I think are more irreverent. And him coming in and just putting it
around his head like it's no big deal, I think really made it seem
like it's not a big deal that you got this and I don't know and
I and again because he doesn't he has his character has no awareness and no
intelligence at all. He can't he doesn't see that. That really rubbed me
the wrong way when the dad put it on his head, because I was
like, this kid has been working hard. This kid is following, been
following all of the different directions and information that he's getting in order to get
up to this point where he gets this belt. He has to do something
in order to get it in front of everyone. Yeah, it's very meaningful.
It's yeah, it's very meaningful. And I think that's how I mean,
I think that's how correct he is taught to be that way, and
so that I think it's a whole that's the whole fucking point. And so
the fact that the dad is just like, oh, now, I have
one you didn't earn that you didn't learn it, and you didn't even you
couldn't even take ten fucking minutes or even I think the other thing that bothers
me the most about Arnold's character is that he doesn't He's never honest with his
son. He's never honest. He doesn't say he promises things. Don't fucking
promise it if you can't do it. Don't even promise the smallest, stupidest
thing you can think of, because world life happens, and it's just like
it doesn't make any sense. So the fact that he also promises him stuff
so often, that would be the reason why a kid would be like writing
his dad off already, because he can't be honest with him about anything.
Yeah, he can't even be like, hey, I really want to go
to that parade. I'm really excited. I can tell that you're excited,
but I have this thing that I have to get done today and I just
don't know how long it's going to say. And that's what's also really sad
is a way that he could very easily have made it up to his kid
is saying I'm so sorry that it make it to your karate thing, your
karate, you know, promotion. Tomorrow, I will make sure that I'm
with work together all day. We'll get I'll make you breakfast, we'll go
to the parade. You know, I will be with you together and offer
a reason why you were not Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And be careful
that it doesn't sound like an excuse, you know, just kind of saying
like what she kind of says, like I messed up, you know,
and I think that's worthwhile of acknowledging, like not even a good reason,
like I blew it. I thought I could make it there in time,
and I didn't, and I should loft earlier and I'm really really sorry.
And yeah, let's watch the tape of you getting your belt, and tomorrow
we will spend all day together. And said, I chase down a toy
that you won't care about in a year and spend none of the day with
you, and continue this narrative that I'm not going to be around. There's
always going to be something more important than you. But don't worry because Ted
will be around and he'll be a great step dad, right if he doesn't
murder your mom. Yeah, yeah, he might be a little busy at
night time serial killing, but slippery. He'll be around for He'll get your
rein, dear babe, and he'll make sure to the tree with you.
He'll never miss a karate promotion because whereas he going to meet his next victim?
Right the way that karate is featured in it, I think, Hannah,
you triggered my mind that that's a really good point. Is Karate's also
all about discipline, yes, and honor. That's the that's the worst I
couldn't think of, yes, and looking at how much inconsistency there is between
what he's learning and being shown is important by a discipline and an art form
that he he's clearly invested in versus what he's being shown from his father exactly.
He's going to start to pick up on and he's going to lose respect
for his dad. Yeah, because his dad is not there. His dad
does not tell the truth. His dad is not an honorable person. That
his dad cares about money. Yeah, more is daddill just becomes someone Whi's
kind of the same idea. But this dad will just becomes someone that he
can ask things of, like big gifts. Dad will just become like a
big piggy bank to him right. I've worked with families where that, unfortunately
has been the pattern, and it becomes really bad really quickly, because then
also you can if your kid ends up having like behavioral issues, which is
very easy to understand, if they have a parent that they feel neglected by,
then it becomes this bribery situation where your kid will only behave, not
even necessarily that you can only behave if you have big gestures. But also
it becomes a thing where they spoil with expensive stuff because they can't sit in
the discomfort of parenting better than that. And then it becomes this thing where
the kid never learns how to like sit in the discomfort of not getting what
they want right away. It can just develop into a really poisonous dynamic very
quickly, where you also can have a kid who gets really caught up in
like materialism and extrinsic motivation. It can just get really sloppy really quickly and
become a real problem later on. The ift to then retroactively figure out by
coming to see somebody like me who has to say, hey, your kid
should be able to handle not getting to go to that concert or whatever,
and if they can't, that's a digative indicative of a bigger issue mm hm.
And also have you credit dynamic where you're with your kid where you don't
show up for them day to day because you give them the splashy shit,
and that's become the understood dynamic because, like you were saying, Ben,
kids don't care about big gestures like this in terms of feeling valued by their
parents, feeling connected to their parents, feeling important to their parents. Because
him looking back at the Karate thing, why kids, why that's really meaningful
showing up to kids events is because that's what shows them that you value them,
that they are important to you, that you're prioritizing your time and your
energy to get there and be with them. Kids respond very much to being
with them. And even with buying toys for your kids and stuff like that,
kids really enjoy you doing that with them. We got this fancy lego
set and we do it together. Absolutely, you know what I mean.
We go on this vacation together, we go to this concert together, but
not just I'm giving you this toy so I don't have to deal with you,
or I'm giving you this toy that replaces me being with you. Right,
And kids don't want that. They want to be with their parents.
Kids can accept a toy as a gesture if the apology also comes with a
behavior correction. But if you start creating the mindset that I'm going to buy
you this toy so I can continue being an absentee part of your life that
you can't rely on, then we're going to have problems. Yeah, and
I think where this movie highlighted poorly, Well, there's no a lesson in
this movie. I'm not for the dad, there isn't, yeah, or
for anyone. But I think Coward missed an opportunity to tell Jamie that he
was important to him and buy the toy he knew the kid liked, he
knew he's watching Turboman every day. You would think anybody who was tuned in
would have some awareness that Turboman might be hard to get. And if your
kid is telling you that, I don't know what he said, like everybody
who doesn't have one, all my friends are getting one. Anybody who doesn't
have one's going to be a jerk. Basically, Yeah, that is something
parents need to parent on. And if your dad has been trading a lot
of time to be a way to make money and then you don't deliver the
thing. What's the return on investment here? What's the return on investment?
And not that you want to train the kid to think that the return on
investment for overworking is that you get to have the toy you really want.
But you do need to draw some lines to some of this work that I
do this time that I can't be with you is to get you and your
mom and our family things that we need. That doesn't have to be said
toy, But there needs to be a conversation around I am away a lot
with work because some parents have to do that and it doesn't make them bad
parents. I'm away a lot in order to provide for us. But there
is more to this world than this toy. If you like, I'm unable
to get you this toy, that doesn't make you any less valuable. And
that's the kind of parenting that needs to happen. Having remembered being a kid,
there will be some asshole who will tell you, oh, oh,
I got this toy blah blah blah blah blah that you didn't get blah blah
blah blah blah, and that some toy or thing that you didn't get from
your parents that you most certainly still resented because you had totally built up in
your head some Christmas that you were totally going to get that toy and you
bought it for yourself as an adult. The things that I want to just
make sure we're getting to these kids as we talked to them, don't miss
the opportunity to parent them that your worth doesn't come from things that you have.
The word comes from things that you are and do. And if the
dad's not modeling that and echoing it in the parenting message, is gun fall
a lot. And have a distinct memory of my mother having this conversation with
me as a kid where I remember going to her in fifth grade and bitching
that I didn't have guest genes, which I think were the hot thing at
the time, and my mom very much says, is you can get guest
genes, I'll have to work for those genes, So do you want to
have me less? And I was like, oh no, I do like
you being around a lot. And so she drew that comparison for me very
early, and it obviously stayed with me of this like I could have had
fancier stuff as a kid, And the reason why I didn't is because my
mom worked either not at all or worked part time. So my mom very
early and still this idea of what you're talking about, which is that it's
the reason why we don't have that stuff is because we've prioritized spending time with
you and raising you and your siblings. And I was like, message received,
and I apologize. I think you make a good point in how clocked
out Howard is to the family because even as a salesman, a person who
seems to be if nothing else, really up up on sales and what's going
on in the economy, he isn't aware of what the hottest toy of the
season is from like even like commercial perspective, he's not aware of like what's
going on business wise right now in the world of retail. And I know
it's very different than mattresses, but I think it's he's not even good at
like being aware of that part of it. On top of the fact that
he's really clocked out of this thing that not only has his kid probably been
talking about NonStop for weeks, if not months, but also that his wife
has very pointedly asked him to get weeks before so he's not listening to his
wife or his kid. Well, he's lying to it. He's like,
yeah, I totally got it. Yeah, but he doesn't remember that conversation.
I'm sure the look on the look on his face was like we talked
about that, right, so he didn't retain that. He feels like the
kind of guy who shows up smile magoo, you know what I mean,
just chopping it up at home, but isn't really paying attention to the things
that matter. You know, that very sitcomie yuckles thing where like a guy
can just be like a goof a buffoon, weaponize and competence bro at home,
right, And that's totally okay, and your wife will have no problems
with that, and if she does, it's because she's a bitch nag.
And I feel like the nineties, which this is very much in the midst
of, that was the trope, that was the messaging, and I think
that was the maybe even the mentality of a lot of parents, and I
think this movie echoed a lot of that for people that were alive during that
time period of going like ooh, too close and also too which I know
is just this because this movie sucks. Is the fact that, going in
a line with what we're talking about, the end of this movie should have
been I don't care about the toy, Dad, I just wanted to be
with you. I'm upset that we weren't together today, you know what I
mean? And Arnold learning that lesson instead of this kid being like, I
just love the might have Turbo Man and that was really fun and wild,
and I'm going to give this toy away. If we're going off of what
you just brought up in this kid should be hyper attached to this toy.
Yeah, because it's all he got up. What is the impetus for him
to then give the toy away? Bad writing? Yeah, if this is
like what he's being the morals that he's being encouraged to hold as Howard's son,
you know what I mean. It's a very cute, sea, small
schmaltzy ending where no one gets held accountable for anything they've done except for the
black guy. It's bad because anybody want to see anything else about the dad.
It seems like we're sort of like winding down on the parenthood relationships,
and it'll come up as we're talking about these other things. Well, it's
all interconnected. Because it's basically Dad is a character and everyone else is flat.
Yeah pretty much. Yeah, all right, so yeah, I'm good.
Okay, let's take our first break here and maybe we'll talk a little
bit about some of other characters. What I was saying is that his wife
doesn't make any sense. Yep, No, she makes no sense. The
fact that I can't get over the fact that he was literally was in a
rocket pack way up skyscrapers, so so far from mirth. He gets their
kid in his arms, also so far from mirth, and when the kid
comes down to the ground, the mom just very couldn't be more casual.
Yeah, oh, come here, what's going on. I'm just like,
you should be screaming, crying, throwing up, cursing at Arnold. Do
you think it's just some guy? Yeah, and maybe even hurting him physically,
like attacking him. The fact that she has such a low key response,
it seems to just go back to this continued narrative where if we're gonna
get really stereotypical, she's like a cool girl. Yeah, you know what
I mean. What really struck me though about Rita is Wilson's characters. She
had a name, she did I'm sure she does. I can't recall it.
I usually write down all the char because he calls because Ted calls her
Lizzie, and it made me want to barf in my mouth. Anyway,
I think that's the only time they say the name. Yeah, it's the
only time. I I mean, this movie rewards that stereotype, like almost
like the cool girl dynamic, where even though she is frustrated by Howard tells
him so very politely, in my opinion, she does not get that upset
about anything. I don't know if she's on kailudes like old school style or
whatever. But the fact that she's not more panic at the end, the
fact that he actually gets rewarded for the Turboman thing because she's horny question mark
by his outfit as Turboman and the rocket pack doing stuff. It's the wildest
ending in all of cinema. And I saw Salburne yesterday in theaters. Okay,
it was just a crazy movie. This movie just encourages these stereotypes that
yes, she's a character with no depth. That would also been another opportunity
for Arnold's character to learn to grow where she holds him accountable. You know,
the only thing she really does that bristles him. That's kind of a
consequence is she lets Ted step into his role that day. But that's just
a natural consequence. I think of Arnold not being around that, like there
is a person there who is willing to drive them, who is going to
help her decorate the tree, you know, who's a neighbor, right,
and she seems to not think it's nefarious because she gets a little like what
when he hits on her? Ted? So other than that, like she's
actually being very cool in my opinion about what's going on, which is a
bummer because it's another way in which Arnold can just continue as Arnold's characters can
just continue to not grow. Yeah, we're seeing so many things happen that
are just not realistic. No, Yeah, for sure. Nothing is totally
consistent at all. No behaviors are consistent, like you see. I think
this is the impact of this movie has done very short order production. It
was crammed into the production schedule and they just kind of blitzed through it.
And I think multiple writers had cracks at in none of them tonal consistency,
because you see the moments where Mom is starting to lose her patience Dad,
and then all of a sudden, oh, he looks hot, like she
wasn't aware that he's been working out. Well, this movie is for cowardly.
It pulls all its punches except for the ones that should pull. Yeah,
for laughs that don't land, that don't land. Like it doesn't it
doesn't make any sense. And I think, I mean, clearly, this
movie was very poorly written. And I think what also sucks is that he
has a mother who doesn't seem to have a backbone or a brain. Oh,
and that is is so unhelpful in a situation. It's almost like he's
being neglected by both parents. Yeah, like when you have a parent who
is who's who doesn't know that he's lying about not getting the toy, who
doesn't know him well enough, doesn't know Arnold's character, Howard's character well enough
to know that he's lying about not having the toy. Like even that,
in and of itself, that conversation just felt so flat and so not realistic.
They did such a bad job with this movie that all of the interactions
in the family are so disconnected from each other. They feel fake. They
do feel fake. It feels very fake, and Arnold does not help without
it all. He's hamming it the fuck up like that, the whole conversation
after he promises the toy and they're winding down to go to bed, and
she so easily eats up what he's saying. Yes, And he couldn't look
like a bigger liar. He is trying to be a comedic actor, Arnold
Swartzenegger in this movie, and he could not be telegraphing more insanely every thought
that's going on or not going on in that big old head, and in
that moment when she is like you got it though, right, and he's
like, yeah, of course I got it, But he does it in
the most madvillian way you could And the way that she's like, great,
I knew it is so wild, especially with something like this where she knows
that it's her son's favorite toy or favorite thing, where his whole Christmas is
probably hinging upon having this toy. I would even say that if anything about
this was realistic, she wouldn't have entrusted him with that task at all,
that's for goddamn sure, or she would be asking him every day, did
you get in? Did you get it? I want to see it.
The fact that she hasn't touched it for their hands and gift drafted herself because
you know, he ain't wrapping gifts for Christmas. The fact that she hasn't
seen it and it's the day before Christmas Eve and she just thinks it's around,
and then she believes it it's at his office. Yeah, absolutely not,
especially a mom who's gotten used to picking up after him. Yes,
with their kid. No, you're exactly right. So then it's like she's
checked out, Like if I'm going to go off of this movie as if
she's a real person, Sure, you're right, she is checked out.
She doesn't really want to acknowledge what's not working either, right, and she
keeps giving her husband a pass at the detriment of her child, who will
be the one having the actual emotional consequences of the situation, which also does
not strike me as real or consistent with the character we see on screen.
This mom is very plugged in with Jamie. There is no universe where she
would let him fail. Jamie that bad. That doesn't even make sense for
how she's written or acted, except that nothing apparently is consistent about how she
was coached. Because she seems to lose her brain or have one, depending
on which shot it is. Yeah, which is confusing because like we see
her from buying none of his shit to buying all of it very quickly.
Yeah, and that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And any person that's
ever seen a mother with their only child knows that there is one thing that
is for damn sure not happening in most situations, that dad that is known
to be failing that kid that she's doing it or vice versa. Right,
Sometimes it's both, Yeah, Sometimes very much, it's both. Sometimes we
get two parents that aren't great at being parents. That happens. But the
way this mom is written is not that. Yeah, she's supposed to be
like the warm suburban mom mm hmmmmm who has a dummy husband m m when
he unveils himself to be turboman at the end, I can understand her not
going absolutely ape shit like a stranger. But when he took that matt that
helmet off once, if I was her, once I saw that it was
my actual husband, the father of my child, who pulled that shit.
You'll you'll have to put me in a handcufs neck to sindbad in the back
of that police car. Because I'm fucking killing like yeah, like I would
lose it absolutely, this is what you've been doing all day. And then
you just said that you in justin danger in our child's life and your life.
Bro mm hmm. Well, and she knows he has not been clever.
Writing may have been a different story where yeah, he even lied and
said, yeah, I've actually been secretly training to be in this show.
I planned this, Like even more clever writing would have been that. But
there's just no lessons learned anywhere for any bad behavior. It's just oh,
it's all cool because you got the toy. I mean it's not even like
that all cool because you got the toy. And also wink wink, you're
gonna get lucky later. Like that's the energy, yes, very much of
the ending, very much, and where her brain comes in and out because
like you were saying, she's freaking out and going, my child has not
been trained to be in any show. Mm hmm. He's not acting.
She's telling a police officer her child's in danger, and then she just like
stops, Yeah what yeah, give it. From an adrenaline perspective, it
makes it's complete none. She shouldn't be so calm. Her calmness at the
end in that end scene is so everyone got trank darted. Before every scene,
she was more upset that Ted called her Lizzie than her child is dangling
from a Christmas tree above the main parade route in downtown Minneapolis. That's a
great point because when Ted hits on her and makes it very apparent what his
motivations are, she does show an aggressive side, and appropriately aggressive side.
She gets very quote unquote feisty with him. Well, yeah, she realized
Ted isn't the benign neighbor next doories. Which also any woman, yes,
who has any sense of self safety and awareness would know what was happening with
Ted because she's sitting next to him when all these other women, and she's
rolling her eyes too, when all these other women are like, you want
to come fix my pipes? Ted, Hey, dad, I've got something
in my bedroom for you to hook up, you know what I mean.
She's around him when he's acting like, in my opinion, a sleeze.
Absolutely, and the fact that she doesn't get that he's a sleeze. She
is written as the dumbest woman that has walked the earth. Absolutely, Yeah,
And then to be I don't know. It's just we're trying to make
sense of something that's not going to be made sense of. And it makes
me really curious because Rita Wilson is a decent actor. I love her and
a lot of other things absolutely, and she can deliver. She was delivering
this energy like we were saying, like in the car scene with Ted,
So it makes me really curious, Like, what was the direction given to
her. Yeah, during the scene at the end when Jamie is rescued right
and comes back to her, was the director like, no, play it
less, no play it less, play it less, but also look a
little horny? Perfect? Yeah, put it, you know, wrap it.
We got what we needed. Yeah. I wonder if they just shot
this so out of sequence, oh that, or with no context to like
certain scenes or something. I guess, especially if it was so badly written
that they maybe had to do a lot of rewriting or reshoots. Yeah,
or reshoots where like this was the first scene they shot or something bonkers,
which I know they do sometimes. Yeah, Well it wasn't with this one.
They did a bunch of stuff in Minneapolis, and then they shot a
lot of this in la where they would have had access to probably a little
bit more safety stuff to do the bananas shit. Yeah, because just doing
that outside of Mall of America, they're like, no, we're gonna make
more money in an hour than this movie's gonna make. So no, we're
not, in fact shutting down our operations. Yeah, because this is the
nineties, people went to mals. Yes, but looking at how bananas and
disjointed this acting was and how unrealistically they portrayed the mom character who they tried
so hard to make so many things that she ended up being none of them.
Yeah, you know how Vin Diesel maybe you don't know this. Vin
Diesel has a rule in his Fast and Furious movies that he can't lose a
fight. It's not funny anyway. Where I'm going with that is it almost
takes to wonder if like Arnold Swarzenegger had a rule in this movie, Who's
like, my wife can't ever really be that mad at me, and I
have to win her over no matter what. Yeah, like I can't be
seen as having a wife that's dissatisfied with me or something bonkers. Yeah,
Like it's very weird how it won't go there the movie at all. Yeah,
because a lot of movies go there, A lot of kid movies even
will go there. And even the fact that Jamie is allowed to be mad
at him. Yeah, he's allowed to be more mad than the mom is
allowed to be mad. That kid has the best He's the best actor in
this oh by far. Yeah, Like he is the most emotional depth.
He's allowed to have the most emotional depth in this movie. He's the one
who's allowed to have an arc. But well, I don't even know,
because the arc is that I still love my dad no matter what. You
know what I mean, and I'm the goodness that is Christmas. That kids
don't actually need the gift, and they'll give it away if there's something better,
even if they wanted it so bad. When they see that, they
get the thing that they wanted most. Yeah, Because he's like, I
couldn't even deliver that message, because the message could have been exactly what we
were saying before, is I don't need that. I just needed you.
Yeah. And I don't need the toy. I just needed my dad.
Yeah, him saying I don't need turbo Man because I have Turboman at home
because my dad is Turboman. Yeah, but you're not gonna play with your
dad, so that turbleman is pointless because it's a turboman you can't play with
instead of, like I said, like it makes it so weird that this
movie doesn't I didn't really need that toy, Dad, I just want to
spend time with you. That's a corny ending we've seen a lot of times
before, but that's an ending that makes sense and doesn't just let Arnold off
the hook. Like I'm saying, this movie it really wants to idealize Howard
Arnold's character in a way that is so weird. He really can't lose,
for he can't lose no matter what. No. Yeah, so I think
that seems to be all over God on them. I think that's all we
can give it. I mean, yep, yep, So maybe we take
another break here. So Supposedly, according to the Internet and Ben, this
movie is supposed to I know personally what Chris Columbus is rewrites were This movie
is supposed to be a satire, which we're playing fast and loose with what
a satire is anyway, And it's supposed to be a satire of American over
consumerism, especially during Christmas. Because this is like just serendipitously, this movie
came out a month before the Christmas of Tickle Me Elmo, like probably when
that was actually peaking. This movie came out, so it just happened to
come out during a time when we had like one of the wildest specific toy
that everyone wanted and couldn't seem to get their hands on. And I think
the only time that this movie seems to do the satire part well where I
genuinely laughed is when everyone is being thrown blooney Tune style into shells and wrestling
each other. Wonderful Christmas. Oh, the most wonderful time of year.
Yeah, it's the most wonderful time of year. Which is assumed that our
friend who gave us a lot of good podcast advice, mister Rob Southgate,
Oh yeah, is in as one of the people distributing the ping pong balls
or bouncy balls that nobody addressed a child put in her mouth. I know,
that's right. I thought the same thing. I was like, what,
I don't know, I was like, Hannah. Is the whole point
of this movie from a writing perspective is let's see how many tiny things we
can get Arnold Swartzenegger to move his big body through, right, which that
seemed to be the whole purpose of that situation is to get him in that
little kid playground area. Yeah, I mean this is the time of comedy
effect guy in a little coat. Yeah, so that's true, and so
got to capitalize on that. We can't have new ideas, big guy,
little tube. That's it funny and so I can understand. I guess,
I guess it is an interesting psychological topic of I'm sorry, I am really
resisting the urge to like Norm McDonald you on this Oh, it's a big
hat. That's why it's funny. Because it's a big hat. It's funny.
That's bigger than a normal hat. Celebrity Jeopardy, celebrity Jeopardy Reynolds.
Yes, even if it's poorly like this is this is exactly that time period
where they would even make fun of themselves. Yeah, but unfortly Arnod Schwarzenegger
on this movie can't pull it off. No, only Norm could pull that
off. Yeah, But I mean I think it is interesting psychologically, the
concept of like Black Friday, the concept of how we have created a culture
in America, specifically where we will sometimes kill each other, like people have
died during Black Friday. Things has stopped, people have stamped. Yeah,
people have been stampeded to get to stuff more than ten times. Yeah,
oh yeah yeah. And this movie, though it's a satire of it,
quote unquote, it also encourages it. Where like the part of the There's
no lesson at the end is there's no lesson in terms of it was pointless
to do all this work for this toy that also wasn't learned at the end
of this, So that kind of undercats the satire part. But I mean,
I guess what are your guys' thoughts about this idea of how this culture
that we have in this country of people going absolutely feral on each other and
a very uncaring way to get a thing. I think it is a massive
tragedy that parenting and communication could prevent that so many of these scarcities and rarities
are manufactured for our age. Troup would have been Beanie Babies, Oh my
baby babies, pulling out the Beanie Baby catalog at recess and that we're you
know, I have sitting on my table because my child likes them. Now
is Pokemon cards. We're just a little too old. For that, we're
just outside of the range that would have given a crap about Pokemon cards.
Yeah, my younger brother cared about Pokemon saying too Like I didn't care.
I was too old. Same, I was just too old. I was
like, Nope, girlfriends, Pokemon cards, No girlfriend girlfriends got simple that
at that point, at that age, because I think I was thirteen right
when they really hit. Okay, thirteen or fourteen, and like by that
point I was like, ah, yeah, yeah, but kids that were
two years younger all about it. But the manufactured scarcities that then they show
you commercials about, they still pull that stuff. You could get this super
rare version and you could only get it this one, and the only way
you'll be cool is if you have the ultra rare version that only like three
people will get. But that's the way to be cools, to have the
cool thing. Never mind that they're going to release another one in one month,
and kids even today are not catching onto that and have spent so much
of their parents' money on digital nonsense for video games. Yep, Skins,
Skins Fortnite, Yeah, do your Flycraft, Roblox rowbox. So the same
stuff is still going on so we have obviously just not learned from it.
The thing that's been different is that manufacturers and businesses have been able to take
out the people killing each other by making it digital stuff. The Black Friday
sales you can do from your phone. You're not trampling store employees. Now.
It's like a whole week of cyber sales that's just cyber's hells. But
you still have to sacrifice your sanity, your sleep, your money, money,
and you're well, I mean not your money. But for like three
people they get the super cool TV at the super cheap price. They're just
not killing store employees because news coverage made that bad. So I think there's
a lot of broken messaging that deserves to be lampooned, but it's not getting
done correctly because we're still overvalueing getting the deal. Which the sad part is
is Midwesterners will still not even tell you the deal. They'll just tell you
we got it on sale. Dance when you get the cool thing, we
won't even tell you how we got it, so you won't even have a
cool story about it. It's like, oh, yeah, I got it
on sale, because it's shameful for me to have a thing that's cooler and
everybody else's thing, except that I'm going to display it for you, just
won't tell you how much I've paid for it because I'm from the Midwest.
Yeah, exactly. I think this is you know, capitalism, man,
yep, this is fucking capitalism. This is what it looks like. This
is late stage capitalism, where we're looking at things are more important than anything
else, and that's how they keep us in our places. We're focused on
the wrong shit, doing the wrong stuff when the real shit is happening that
will change our world forever. And it's not a surprise in any way that
our country is this way. I don't think this movie. I think this
movie is really bad, but they certainly showed the reality of what everyone is
doing when it comes to Christmas and when it comes to any present giving event
where people are throwing giant parties for five year olds and all different kinds of
stuff that makes absolutely no goddamn sense, trying to give their kids all the
things that they didn't get and look in some ways, sure, in other
ways it doesn't fucking matter, because kids are going to remember when you didn't
fucking show up to the karate thing. They're going to remember when they were
looking for you in the crowd. They're going to remember when you never came
to any of the games that they had because you always had a meeting on
Thursday. Kids are going to remember all that shit. I don't remember.
I remember maybe two presents that I got my all of my growing up,
right that were like, oh my god, I can't believe I got this
present, But it never made it feel like my parents, who didn't give
a shit, gave a shit, right, Yeah. And it makes me
think about how when I would do like parent groups and stuff, and then
there would be the inevitable, Like these kids today are so entitled, and
I want to be like, well, who raised them? Bro? You
know what I mean? They didn't get out of the womb like this,
or if you got the TV raised them, then they won't. Yeah,
know that they have worth beyond what the commercial tells them. Yeah. And
just to point out as like a side note of something that I learned to
go at school, we are the only country who does not have laws about
commercials and marketing towards children. We are the only country who does not have
that. So not only are we doing something that no one else is doing.
But we're also allowing our children to be brainwashed into thinking that this thing
that I can buy or that my parents have to get me is the only
thing that really matters. Yeah, and now it's phones and screens of all
sorts, like putting them in kids' hands early and often in their faces,
and if they're on YouTube, which kids love to be on YouTube, myself
included. There's ads in front of everything, whose ads on the sides of
everything, And so these kids are being I guess, indoctrinated, indoctrinated and
to this idea of absolute eating very specific things because I don't know, going
back to the guest Genes story, I don't know if I ever got anything
trendy growing up, you know what I mean. I don't know if I
got a cauche when I was a kid. So I guess I did get
that I was pretty little, but I can't remember. I barely had beanie
babies because my mother was like, we didn't know, no, ma'am.
No. My parents were very frugile. I was raised by accountants, and
so they did a good job of actually seeing through for volity and they were
just like, that's dumb, not a mean way they were just like,
yeah, right, manufacture already, Yeah, we don't care, and spent
a lot of time with us. And that's what I remember, right,
all the things we did together, not necessarily any of the flashy stuff I
got, because kids get also because in this hyper capitalist society, we're moving
on to the next very quickly, you know. The attention span is short.
And something that I have to work on with clients is how we have
really connected with capitalism, connected datus and value with stuff, and how you
can't ever move backwards. And what I mean by that is like if you've
moved to a big McMansion, you can't go back to living in a smaller
house, or if you drive like a flashy car, you can't go back
to driving like a Honda, you know, And how it really will trap
people kind of in the situation Arnold's in this movie where they just keep plowing
forward to this one thing because they can't just relent and acknowledge this isn't working,
this is not what's We can't keep living like this, We can't keep
just like stubbornly going towards this goal. We have to stop and realize what
our actual goal is, which is I think Arnold's goal, Howard's goal is
I want to feel close to my kid or I want my kid to have
a good feeling about me. I feel like Arnold's or Howard's deal or whatever
is that. I think he wants his kid to think he's cool. The
status thing, right, the status I could see, which also sucks,
Like why this movie is so lazy. If they would have talked more about
the fact that he's obviously an immigrant because he has the world's thickest accent,
famously not from America, arn Swartzenegger, if they would have even talked about
that more like the American dream, or how he rose to being the mattress
king of Minnesota and how good that makes him feel, and how he seems
to really love those conversations with his customers. Right, he's smiling. They
can't see his face. Yeah, Like he looks gleeful at that holiday party
where he's not even participating, he's working. And if this movie would have
actually been a set like focused in more on that of the American dream of
it all and how that's how he felt like he could show his value to
his kid, which a lot of parents do. They get hooked That's what
a capitalism affects parenting and kids, right is. Kids are always gonna want
shit. I was always the second I got my hands on that jcpenny catalog,
like Christmas catalogue that weigh ten pounds, I was circling the shit out
of it Adelia's catalog. There was not a catalog in my house growing up
that did not have things circled in it that I desperately wanted. Yeah,
the American Girl catalog had my hands all over it. I didn't get American
Girl doll till I was thirteen, too old to appreciate it. No offense,
mom, but appreciate that you got from me eventually. But that's probably
the only trendy thing that actually my parents probably saved up to get me eventually.
But this idea that kids are always gonna want flashy shit. They're always
gonna want what things their friends has, the things they say on commercials.
That's just how kids' brains work. They just want the shiny thing, and
you, as an adult, you don't have to get roped into that.
You can have lines and if your kids disappointed because you didn't get them the
thing they wanted, sin that is comfort of your kid being disappointed. They'll
get over it because guess what, in the real fucking world, people get
disappointed. Yeah, they don't get the things that they want, or things
are just flat too expensive to be affordable for your situation, that the trade
is not worth it. Yeah, and that is a necessary message to teach.
Well, that is the newest, coolest, flashiest thing, but it's
not gonna make you the coolest, newest, flashiest thing. Yeah, and
it never will mm hmmm. And it's oh okay, you know what.
You know, it was almost a satirical kids movie that essentially taught this message
so much better and now is super relevant because he just got a star McCauley
McAuley, Culkin just got a star on a Walk of Fame. Richie rich
nailed it. Oh yeah, he's the boyhood everything. And you know,
all he wanted was friends. Yeah. And they didn't make him have friends.
Yeah, they didn't solve all his problems, they didn't make his family
better. They didn't do anything for him except make him realize how much it
sucks, yeah to only want those things and try to ascribe your value to
this. And this movie missed on whatever satire they tried to create because it
was so tonally inconsistent. Yeah, and you're right because even in Richie Rich,
if I remember correctly, the kids that he wants to play with the
normal kids, they're like make fun of him for being rich, and they
don't want to hang out with him because he's so out of touch and therefore
not cool. And yeah, and you're right, that is a much better
lesson than what this movie thinks it's trying. I mean, I think this
movie was just like, look at these crazy Christmas toy runs that people are
like going berserk over. Let's make a movie around that, making fun of
it. End of thought process about this movie, and we're going to call
it a satire and further embarrass ourselves. I think it's getting, like we're
saying, it's getting worse, like the consumer culture, because media is getting
more pervasive, advertisings getting more pervasive, and I think parents are having a
harder time sitting with their kids disappointment. I think, yeah, yeah,
it's interesting for our generation that went through so much of that. I didn't
get whatever cool Beanie Baby was. I didn't have. I don't know.
My brother may have gotten a Char's Ard card eventually, but it wasn't when
it was the Charizard card, right, yeah, right, you know,
like it was we had a game Boy that we all shared, right,
I mean, we're in danger of walking into Hannah being able to call us
old until you're old. No one caress like she did in our last episode
here. But I think looking at the point of this movie was supposed to
be to tie right to these crazy toyrants. Look how crazy the parents get,
Look out of touch we're going to be, and it just didn't land
it. And there was so many things it tried to do where we can
look at how this affects people of different races, and how these two dads
that have so much one's upholster worker, On's a mattress executive, and maybe
he's from another country, but you know, we never know that because Arnold
was a killer robot or America's dad from Austria. Yeah, but we never
talked about yeah ever. Yeah, Like it could have been an interesting j
exposition of a maleman who's a civil servant who's working on Christmas Eve and trying
to get a toy for his kid between deliveries, versus a guy who owns
his own company who's choosing to neglect his family on Christmas Eve because he continues
to neglect his family and how's all these resources and the j exposition of that.
It could have been yeah, and then it wasn't. It wasn't.
But it was also so very nineteen ninety six that we couldn't even tell the
difference between Okay, so was this like are they poking fun at that?
Are they lampooning this? Is this a satirical representation of Oh, look the
white dad and the black dad who did essentially the same thing, the same
level of felony crimes and ones getting arrested and he's smiling about it, and
let's see. That could have been satirical brilliance. But we couldn't even tell,
like was this on purpose or is this just the nineties? Yeah?
I think they just got Simbad because Simbat was a hot comedian at the time
and Joe Pesh she didn't work out, and they didn't even I don't think
they even thought about the racial connotations that we picked up on. Yeah,
I would agree with them. I'm sure Sindbad did. But yeah, the
movie, I mean, you don't think any folks, say Rodney King,
who attacked by the group of people. He does say that, so I
think he even maybe just in his in the way that he works in general
in terms of how much he improvised, but that even he made a point
to point out something that was not being said in the film, right,
And like, I mean, I think that smile on his face at the
end at that last shot where like he's smiling at Arnold being turbo man and
like him getting kind of led away by the cops right at that second,
not kind of getting led away as Yeah, I think the twinkle in his
eyes to me was Okay, I'm at least gonna make the social commentary here,
but yeah, because Arnold had more direct conflict with one police officer,
like if anyone's getting arrested a ship at him, yep. Yeah, And
even if there was going to be like something of like that officer can't arrest
him right now because he was the hero of the whole crowd. Could have
had him come and arrest him later at his house because he already knew who
he was. It wasn't like he was some faceless guy and everyone would have
known who this was. And this it just was nonsense or like the cop
was going to put handcuffs on Arnold and then everyone was like turbo man.
So the cop was like, I guess I can't do it. Logistics,
you know what I mean? Like that would have worked more, but it
didn't. Working so hard over here trying to make this movie. We're really
brainstorming though, we really are jingle right. Yeah, So let's uh,
we'll pause there, We'll go to treatment if we have any sure, all
right, So Hannah would like to go first with the turbo treatment of the
Turboman family. So, as always, we don't have enough information to really
say what this would be like, but I'm going to go out on a
limb and say that I would treat Howard and Liz as a couple because I
think that there's some pretty significant even though as we've discussed, the wife character
is very clearly, very very poorly written and makes no sense at all.
That if I think about kind of going back to our brainstorming of like what
I think we were shown in this film, which is how disconnected they really
seem as a couple. Whether or not that was intentional, I don't know,
but they are very disconnected and they definitely have been together for a good
amount of years. I would even guess anywhere between ten to fifteen years that
they had been together. And so one of the things that I wanted to
talk about that I've never really talked about because me and Gotman don't really vibe
for the most part, and I can talk about that for one hundred years,
but I won't do it here. There's the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.
I think some of the things that we saw, and some of the
things that I picked up as a couple's therapists in the film were criticism,
defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling. I really think that those things. I
don't think we saw a good example of those things in this film, but
I do think some of the ways that they were reacting around each other,
again, the wife being very disconnected from him, not really being able to
pick up on any of his emotionality in any way or even really make guesses
of what he was like. She was so checked out in such a specific
way, And I think that that happens a lot when you have a partner
who is always promising shit that they're not fucking doing, and eventually you just
don't really give a shit what they're doing because they're not being honest about it.
And maybe it doesn't feel like a big enough thing where you can't be
with them anymore, but it certainly is at a big enough wedge in a
marriage that would make it really hard to be connected and for them to be
able to be the supportive parents that Jamie really needs. And so I think
what I would want to do is help them clearly, help them be able
to communicate better, but also really show the harm that Howard is doing by
continuing this pattern of behavior that's affecting his entire family. Yeah, on a
regular fucking basis, not only helping Liz have a voice in the relationship,
but also really showing to someone who seems who has no awareness Howard's character,
really showing him the effects that his behavior have on other people, and how
sometimes that's a part of the work that we do with couples of helping them
see. You may have this whole narrative in your head about what you think
this is, and you're wrong about that, so wrong. This is having
a big impact not only on your marriage, but also on your relationship just
as a human with your wife and with your child. And if it keeps
going the way that it's going going to end well, and so I would
really want to help them. I feel like there would be criticism. I
feel like there is defensiveness, especially with Howard's character, as we can tell
he can't really manage anybody being mad at him or frustrated with him. I
think there is some stonewalling just based on her lack of response to him,
like her just being really checked out of the marriage. And so I feel
like that's what I would want to do, is kind of help them,
help point out the things that they're not aren't willing to look in the face
at, and also give the wife a voice in terms of how the behavior
is affecting her and her son. Well said, and I'll go this time
and let Brittany close this one out. I would absolutely want to work with
the wife. I think of the people that I see besides the child,
that are the most victimized in this relationship, as like Hannah said, is
watching her struggle as if she were a three dimensional character and a real person.
We would be seeing a little bit more of how put in between the
lies and the failures and the overlove of business and image that Howard is doing,
and how much anger and resentment and frustration. She would have a need
empowerment and need a place to be able to have someone reflectively listen to her
and allow these underlying emotions that she probably has to dissociate away from to keep
a mask on for her child, or at least she's going to think she
does, especially in the nineties. But looking at what I think someone in
that kind of situation is going to need is permission to feel all of their
feelings, including the anger ones and the trapped ones. Because we don't know
what she does. We have no idea what she does for work or not
if she works. Yeah, not a clue. Yeah, I don't think
it's mentioned at all. Definitely not. I'm assuming she's a housewife, saying
like a wild guess. I mean it's possible, right, Yeah, for
sure, a teacher or who knows. It's the nineties, so you know,
women were restricted to about two roles on TV between housewife and teacher and
nurse, so who knows what she would have been. But looking at what
a real person would need in this situation is a very non judgmental place to
explore all of those feelings, including up to choosing to stay in this situation,
but be better armored against it because for whatever reason, it's not financially
or otherwise possible to leave at this second. And how do we empower the
client to feel like, even in a situation they may be stuck in in
some sense of the word, they don't have to be stuck in all,
which can be a significant boon to health. And I think that is something
I would want to do with this family, let alone the ridiculous trauma that
would process later. Knowing that I just watched my idiot husband who does not
know how to operate a jetpack, operate a jetpack to save my child who
could have been a street pizza. Because that is how you get a dead
husband. Yeah, yeah, well Rita is really missing is one good girlfriend?
Yeah? Who's like you realized this is crazy? Right? Mm hmm
what he's done? M h wait, you mean you can't trust a man
who wants to sleep with you to provide you that Well, honestly could probably
be doing the same thing. I can't believe he did that put your child
in danger like that. I would never put your child in danger like that
ever. Yeah, I mean he would do that, but he would be
on his own agenda, which would validate arg yeah, which she was intelligent
enough to see through quickly, which was one moment on the end of the
film, and he really had to like smack her on the face with it.
He did. Yep. Yeah, I mean it's just ridiculous. But
that's where I would go a treatment. Brittany who can say, I mean,
I'm the kid therapist. So I would think, well, here's the
problem with a kid like Jamie I he doesn't have, like the problem is
his dad. You know, like putting him in therapy is kind of moot
at that age at least because he's right. I mean, it would be
just validation. Mm hm Yeah, you're right to be upset. Yeah,
that is upsetting that your dad doesn't do that or the other He would be
a kid. Let's say, like they put him maybe he was like,
I don't know something was going on, and they put him in therapy because
his dad's disappointing him. It would be hard to work with him other than
having a space where he could talk without bringing the dad in. I think
a certain point I'd have to be like I need to see this dad and
work with him and do parent coaching and then pull the mom into if they're
soil together and kind of be like, what is this dynamic? What are
our goals? Why are you working so much? You know, like you
were talking about way earlier, Ben like just drilling down on consistency that how
are we showing up in the kid's day to day life. What are some
hard expectations we can have on like you're gonna get home for dinner four times
a week at least? You know, what are the big things we can't
not go to? I would probably I feel like Arnold would Howard we need
a lot of psychoed from me about why it actually is important. Yes,
that he does the things that I'm asking him to do, But honestly,
I don't have much for treatment because everything's actually fine at the end of the
movie, and the kid's fine, and the relationship's fine, and the kid
has the joy of Christmas and him and the generosity of Christmas, And what
actually would be the fallout is I don't think the dad learned anything. So
I feel like the same situation is gonna keep happening. Oh, they've made
it clear in the post credit scene that it's going to bummer. Also,
if any movie deserved a post credit scene less anyway. Yeah, so what
would happen is they probably would have maybe go to family therapy at some point
when the kid's older because he wants something to do with his dad, and
his dad's like, I don't understand why we don't have a relationship mm hmm,
and Lizzie would be pulling his ass into family therapy and then I would
probably end up just wanting to talk to Arnold because the kid's not the problem,
right. Yeah. It makes me think of when people do want to
do therapy with their teenagers because the dangers don't want to have a relationship with
them, and they want family therapy to just they want someone like me to
just like make their kid have a relationship with them. And what I tell
parents and they don't, I don't think they really know this before they sign
up with me, is like, if your kid's not invested in your relationship,
I'm not going to make them do family therapy because you want me to
put a band aid on a problem you caused in family therapy, even with
some one whe of them's a teenager, all everyone has to be invested in
the work, and I'm not going to make a kid who has tuned out
of the relationship with their parent come to family therapy once a week because their
parent feels a type of way. I agree if the kid's not like genuinely
invested. And I've had situations, not even that long ago, where I've
had kids where they're like, I don't really care about working on our relationship.
I know who my dad is. Yeah, and I'm fine because they
have a problem they need to figure out. And then I have to vary
discreetly, you know, because protecting the kids, you know, being have
a discretion with what the kids share with me. Just kind of state to
the parent like, hey, as of right now, what I'm getting from
your kid is that they're not super motivated to do the work right now.
And that's my job is to assess everyone's motivation to do collaborative therapy, whether
that's couples or family, and that they're not there and there's no pressing issue
growing on right now behaviorally mental health wise, that I feel like you have
to do this work because in those situations that the kids are in their own
individual therapy or something like that, and I'm like, let them they're stable,
you know, if they don't want to do this work, then they
don't have to do this work because they are not a big fan of you
right now, or they don't want to spend time with you, or they
don't want to go to your house, they want to stay at the other
parent's house. And I do tell parents though, I'll keep working with you
if you want, I'll do parent coaching with you. I'll do family therapy
without the kid with you, and we can figure out what's going on in
your end that's created this dynamic. But I'm not going to force a kid
to sit down and do that work, especially if the parent isn't ready to
do repair work, which is apologizing whether the intent was there, recognizing the
impact. And then part of repair work is what you talked about earlier.
I think, uh, Hannah, is behavior change mm hmm. I recognize
what I did that hurt you, whether I meant for a turtu or not
is moot. I apologize, I validate you, and this is what I'm
going to do differently. And that's something I sometimes we'll do with parents without
the kid in the room, Like, this is how you do repair work,
and you can do that with me or without me. So that's what
I would do a treatment with the crumbs. This movie gave me about that,
well, you mean the darkness in his look when dad walked in and
put that purple belt on his head, And that's a memory that kid's going
to bring up in therapy fifteen years later. That's the kind of darkness in
a look that's enough to get you cast as Anakin Skywalker. I mean,
I'm surprised it took you this long. Same the same. Yeah. Wait,
took final thoughts, which we'll get too in a bit here. So
we'll take our last break and get into final thoughts, which I feel like
we've shared profusely anyway, so it shouldn't be any mysteries. But this movie
sucks. Yeah, we'll take a break here, all right, final thoughts.
I feel like we're going to be a roulette. Maybe for once we
can all say the same thing at the same time. This movie sucks.
We are never happen to see this movie again. Maybe, Ben, because
you got kids. Nope, my kid preferred the Santa Claus sequels to this
one. That makes sense, yeah, because even those were focused on a
kid. Yes, yeah, and Christmas and elves and razzle dazzle something.
Well, Santa Claus two was hot garbage, but yeah, well anyway,
it's a different movie. But final thoughts, WHI I thing, I'll just
start here because this is my fault because my child self remembered this movie as
being fun, and my adult self watched this and when wow, like this
is so tonally bad. I don't even know if it's satirically showing like racism
in Hollywood and bad dadding and people not getting it and no lessons being taught,
or if it's just a really poorly written nineties movie that had all the
nineties tropes of all those things just being true that have now gotten so obvious
in media that I'm seeing it that way. And I think it's more that
I don't think it was satirically shown that as turboman, as Arnold goes flying
through a family's window who's obviously having a very nice family thanksgiving, yet another
opportunity to have a really satirical moment. But we just had to have that
be a black family. Yeah, because nineties, I think, yeah,
we just need to insert color into this movie, so we'll let them be
this like throwaway family that get their home literally destroyed obliterated by Arnold Christmas Eve
as a one off note, Yeah, in a jet pack. Yeah,
Like just like we can't even tell if it's making fun of that, and
I think e reached the conclusion that it's not. But like, this movie
went through so many different cycles, Like I think it's just obviously went through
rewrite after rewrite, and they just threw a bunch of shit together. Yeah,
because it was sloppy and it went from like, oh, we could
have a real commentary on consumerism and the impact of families, or we could
have a movie where we turn Arnold into Batman where he suddenly discovers a crime
and rich guy in a coat goes in and deals with the henchman at first,
but then finds the real Batman villains, and somehow we get an entire
scenes where he's battling criminal underworld Santo's that did happen and he's beating them up
with a candy king. I mean, if this movie's anything, it is
a declaration about white privilege and the fact that he was convinces those guys he's
an undercover cop and walks out with the fake badge that probably looks so made
of aluminum I mean it was plastic. It was plastic. It was fucking
plus so plastic. You needed like Omri from the Indian in the Cupboard to
say plastac like it was that bad. I'm just gonna stick with the nineties
here. For some reason, we hired Jim Belushi to show up and do
Jim Belushi things. And then to make it more ridiculous, why not have
in addition to Arnold beat up a bunch of Santas, he's also gonna battle
Paul White aka the Big Show, who is then at some point gonna punch
Vern Troyer across a room. Yeah, and then we're gonna go back to
it being a movie where Phil Hartman is hitting on housewives, and then this
kid's going to be really angry that his dad's not there, and what movie
are we watching where it's in like, oh, look at this. We're
gonna have Sinbad and Arnold have a battle of wits, which Arnold is very
clearly losing. But also he looks normal sized next to Sinnbad, so we'll
cast Sinnbad to be funny and also a little bit what happened in this movie.
It was bad. It was bad. It should not continue to exist.
It should not be ranked one hundred on the list of Greatest Christmas Movies
ever. It should not be ranked at all. It's trash. I'm sorry,
I'm done. End of speech, Ron Swanson. Well, where I
can give you some cred ben or just some slack is. I also watched
this movie when it first came out. I'm sure it was a family favorite
in my household, because Arnold Swarzenegger wasn't it, And you know, he
was just every kid loved him in movies growing up, and so I remembered
it being cheesy, but I thought it would just be like a nineties kid
movie, cheesy in a way that I could tolerate, you know. So
it was shocking from the jump, how poorly. If this was the first
and only thing I ever saw ornal sources niggerin, I would be like this
man was a movie star. No charisma, horrible acting, no comic timing,
sort of a good grip on a physicality. That's about it. This
movie. It feels like a cash grab. It also feels like sometimes when
movies try to be family friendly, therefore like something for everybody, it becomes
like this, like a shitty soup where you've thrown everything in from the refrigerator.
But it doesn't make sense together because like my favorite parts of this movie
were the Ted parts because it was so weird, so different tonally than the
rest of the movie, so horny in a very specific way, sleazy,
his energy is so nefarious. He's actually like a good actor and a good
comedic like he could hold onto actually his like acting in it, and he
was bringing this level where I was like, can we just follow Ted around
into his layer? Feel like I was. I was starting to write these
like fan fix about Ted, like what's he up to? Like I want
to follow his like like him like yelling at the kids when Rita went up
to shower, like he was the most interesting part of this whole movie.
And that's about it. But I think it's like that thing where like sometimes
I think movies, like I said, try too hard to have like the
things that the adults will like and the things that the kids will like.
And this movie is bad at both. And yeah, it's a horrible.
I will never watch this movie again. I'm gonna do very hard. I'm
gonna work very hard to keep this movie from my nieces and nephew so that
they don't end up accidentally liking it and then making me watch it on Christmas,
Like I'm going to hide this movie from the eyes of all the children
around me because I never want to see it again. And that's how I
feel about this movie, Hannah. This movie sucked and I hated it and
I was bored. And I think are year old Schwarzenegger is the worst actor
on the face of the planet. And I've always thought that and we'll always
think that, and this movie really shows that. Yeah, and uh yeah,
it sucked and I will never watch it again. M hm. So
I think what we're saying, ladies and gentlemen, is that rather than watch
this movie ever again, we're going to go try to pick fist fights with
reindeer jingle all the way to Hell is what this movie should be. Also,
the fact that that's where you went with the Batman reference and not a
mister Freeze joke. I can't believe that was a wow, the lamest Batman
I have ever heard you do. So that's not a zero like a I'm
mad that you made me watch this movie and made me wait two years to
schedule that. All right, everybody chill and on that note, please rate
and review us on any other episode podcast. Maybe you know what, actually,
if you wil swaging all the way, hit us up. You know
this is interesting because actually we can do a little preview. Our next episode
is actually gonna have a similar theme where this hyperconsumerism, this capitalism is so
awful that it throws our it causes the impetus for the non Christmas celebration we'll
be discussing in our next episode, Festivus. As I rained blows upon him,
I realized there must be another way. Yeah. So on that note,
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Jingle all the way, y'all.