Behind the Scenes Minis: Licoricia and Glitter Sunscreen

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. We talked about Lcaricia of Winchester this week. We did do whose name I kept morphing into Lucretia as I was typing my outline, which uh, I'm gonna I'm willing to bet does have the same origin. Lcaricia basically means sweet. Yes, I will confess to you that I have always pronounced it with a harder emphasis on the oh, so it's like licorica, like that sweet fine. I mean, we've I don't know how specifically she would have pronounced it. It is spelled innumerable ways right in the record. Also don't totally know like how her kids' names would have been pronounced. We went with a share for her son, whose name is in most accounts either spelled Asher or as s Er, because I think that is how most people who were using that name as a Hebrew name pronounce it, and it's also the more French way to pronounce it, and so since most as we understand it, most Jewish people in medieval England were kind of using Norman French versions of their names. That seemed like the best way to go. But there are so many different spellings, so many nicknames that don't immediately make sense but are based on like how things were pronounced a thousand years. Yeah. Yeah, so many people asked us to do this, and honestly, I was embarrassed when I did another check of it it recently, because I was like, there was there was a ton of stuff that was there before a year ago or you know, February of last year when people were asking for it, and it just like that just was buried by many many news articles about the statue that all had the same three or four points. It's such a heart wrenching story because you know, now that we know a bit more, it's not something I knew a lot about, but like the idea of just like all of these people belonged to the king, yeah, really is like upsetting to me on a visceral level. Yeah. So it's been I think a while since we've really talked about medieval history on the show, but medieval history and specifically medieval women, like it's always just been a favorite topic of mine and something that I have returned to on the show periodically, but overwhelmingly, the medieval women that I have learned about and have been taught about and have had college courses about, like, they have all been Christian, many of them specifically Christian mystics and anchorises, and like people who were signed in some like world of religious devotion, specifically Christian religious devotion. And so I did not have a sense of the whole like that arc of Jewish history in medieval England and how much of it she lived through, And so when I started working on this episode, I did not have a sense of how much like horrible violence and anti Semitism and blood libel like. I did not have a sense of how much all of that was going to be part of the episode when I started working on it. I also one of the reasons that we didn't do this episode back in twenty two, in addition to the fact that I was like, I don't know if there's enough information about that, is I just I had reservations about talking about somebody who was in a profession that does have all of these prejudicial stereotypes associated with it, And it took me a super long time to figure out like best ways to talk about that and how to make it super super clear that you're like, yeah, there's this. There are these stereotypes of the quote money lender, and those are not stereotypes that we also apply to somebody that we might would describe as a banker, right, or a pawnbroker or any of these other comparable jobs that people were also doing. Yeah. I mean it's one of those those moments where I marvel at the horrific consistency of history, right that, like, these are things that we are talking about that happened hundreds of years ago. M hmmm, and those stereotypes are still causing problems. Yeah, yeah, like we have as much as we all like to pet ourselves on the back for how far mankind has come, right, not really. Yeah, And one of the things that was really frustrating to me about this episode is how, for a lot of reasons, especially in England, that stereotype exists because the king was literally like I want to have these these like Jewish financiers come to lend me money, and so it's like the king decided that this is how it should be. Yeah, and then later the king took all of that away, and so I don't know, it's England is obviously not the only place that where Jewish people were working in lending, but they're like it was particularly concentrated specifically because of like the King's actions and the King's policies and what the king wanted for is that a rail? Right, it's such a unique I mean, listen, horrific. So please don't think I'm complimenting him in what I'm about to say, but it is such a unique and well strategized way to get someone who has what you don't have to give it to you without giving them any power. Right, Yeah, for sure, Like, oh, yes, you will lend me money, but you have no power over me because of it I'm the king, Yeah, which is astonishing. Right, most of the time, in most of our day to day normal lives, if someone lent us a large sum of money, we would feel that they had a measure of power over us, right because if we didn't, if we didn't repay it properly or any other thing, like, they could potentially, you know, yeah, preak havoc in our lives. But he figured out this loophole that he could set up. Yeah. I also originally had some stuff in that line about how like attitudes toward charging interest started shifting more in like the thirteenth and fourteenth century. There are still various religious communities and denominations that that find all interest to be sinful. So like that is that still exists. There's still like folks that have to work out other ways to exist in a society with money without violating their religious principles over it. But like there became a wider a wider sense of the fact that loaning somebody money is a risk and interest helps defer that risk, right, because if one person defaults on their alone, maybe other people's interest means you don't wind up as the lender going bankrupt, if that makes sense, So theyre just uh, there became a more permissive attitude, but there's still obviously today is discussion about like what rates of interest are exploitive, When is it okay to charge interest and when is it not. Very recently there was legislation introduced in Congress, and I don't remember the status of it, but like it was to set a cap on interest rates for consumers, with the idea being that interest rates that are too high are are exploitive. I took all of that out because I was like, it felt like uh an aside. Yeah, so I'm saying it now instead. I find that statue to be really beautiful. Yeah, I got choked up trying to talk about it. So, you know, ditto. I've seen a couple of criticisms about whether aspects of it are historically really act it like that, how would we know? Well, some of that Okay, So we don't have historically accurate, verifiable depictions of what Jewish people living in England war, right, right, Like, the only visual depictions that we have of Jewish people living in England are like there are some that are like, uh, anti Semitic cartoons, that kind of thing. So like there's a lot of that we don't know, but we sort of think similar dress to what Christians in England were wearing. Uh, it does seem like adult Jewish women, especially married women and widows, were expected to have all of their hair covered. And her hair is not fully covered, so there were people are like should her hair have been fully covered? And then also a share in the statue is carrying a draidal and apparently that the dradl was a little bit later development in more Germany. So it's like would there have been right, and so to me, I cannot speak at all for like how a Jewish person would feel about this, Like for me, as a person that talks about history all the time, I feel almost like that is something that makes it recognizable to a total lay person who doesn't know the story of this, like what they're looking at. Yeah, and that might have been the reason for including that. I just had the weirdest thought unrelated to the statue. Okay, this is the germination of an idea. So if I sound like a dingdong, apologies. One of the things that I would say, definitely the case in my family, and I think the case in a lot of families, is that the idea of talking about money at all is anathema. Oh sure, yeah, yeah yeah. And I mean still to this day, as a fully grown adult with like a house and stuff like, I will literally pick up the entire tab at a big group meal because the thought of talking about how it gets split up is so upsetting to me. I can't even deal with it. I'm buying my mental health by just paying for everybody. But I also wonder if some of that isn't ingrained in this idea of like those people who are the money people are yucky and dirty. We don't even talk about it. Oh maybe, And if that's like a thing that has just through generation after generation without us realizing it been an ingrained part of this bigger problem. Yeah, I can tell you with certainty that when it comes to how much people are paid at work, the taboo of talking about how much you pay at work is like one hundred percent about trying to make sure that people don't oh yeah, don't come together. Oh yeah, it's a bargain for better pay. Oh yeah. But I mean like within families and stuff, Yeah, more social stuff. That's a good question, And it could just be that you know there, I mean, I'm sure that would not be the only thing. There are other issues that come into play there of like humility and shame and just like yeah, yeah, not trying to impose that kind of thinking on a kid early on, but then later on they're like what is money? How does it do? Yeah? But I just, like I said, the germination of a thought where I was like, oh is this multi generational? That like it's a way to separate people. I feel like there's a big contradiction there because there's the idea of like, we don't talk about money because it's kind of shameful to do that. But also there is a very wrong perception that people with money are better and right people are not right. That's this is right, That's that's why I kind of mentioned that shame is probably part of that, that non conversation that I'm sure somebody has written entire books about this thing that you and I are just like off the cuff talking about, so I take them mind. Yeah, please do not take this as like Tracy and Hart Holly's authoritative comprehensive look at the psychology of money. We're not saying that at all. I entrees stated clearly that I probably sounded like a DG dog. Yeah, but it does make me think about all of those, yeah, social and cultural morays about how cultures deal with money, think about money. Yeah, there was a I am literally reaching into the back of my broken brain, all right, uh about I think it was an NPR story that I was listening to that was comparing the way different cultures prepare for their future, like for retirement and stuff, and how they were linking it to language as like the way people think and how in some languages like that. Don't, for example, have like a past or future tense. People are better at preparing for the future because they are it's all the one thing. Your life is one big thing, and not Oh I'll think about my retirement later, but right now I'm having fun. I think I might have heard that was this recent. No, it was like at least four years ago. Okay, I heard something very recently on the radio as I was out and about that was very similar. I mean, that could be the same people doing research that's ongoing. Yeah, but I didn't totally pay attention to it because in my head, I was like, is this nut Udge? And I started thinking about the podcast If Books Could Kill that just talked about like the Nudge book, and I got mentally very distracted, and I don't remember the rest of what it was. So anyway, anyway, I'm glad we finally did this episode. Glad it turned out that there was enough information. Man, I feel very ignorant about how much how this whole aspect of medieval history I was absolutely unaware of. And I think we're probably gonna take a little sponsor break right here and then talk about a different episode Sun Scream, Please wear sunscream. I hate it, and I do it anyway. Yeah, I don't love it, but I do it. Yeah. So let's say I'm gonna go hiking and I'm gonna be outside for multiple hours. That's fine, and I will stop on my hike and I will reapply it on my hike. But the thing that I just irrationally hate is I'm gonna walk to the store and I'm gonna be in the sun for a total of an hour. And like the fact that I gotta stop and put the sun to the sunscreen on, you know, is if the weather is cool enough, I have plenty of other options for protecting my skin, Like I have lots of sunscreen, clothing and all of this other stuff. But like, if it's a hundred, if it's one hundred, I'm probably staying in the air. If it's eighty five degrees, then I'm gonna walk to the grocery store and I'm gonna be gone like an hour. The stop step putting on the sunscreen on my arms and legs, I just irrationally hate it. No, I understand it's a pain in then it's one of many things I irash. I also find it a pain to put on shoes and not me give me all the shoes. I mentioned at the top of the episode that I had gotten into a conversation with my neighbor because I was out mowing and he was kind of chuckling at me because I look like a lunatic when I mow, and I know it, and I don't care. Because I have on a wide brim hat. I usually have on full length leggings, no ankle shows at all. Very Victorian EU, I'm not, and you know I'll have a T shirt on. I often wear like a little I have dozens of wacky print little like chiffon robes that I wear all the time. And then I put oncras sleeves on my arms and none of this stuff matches. So I do look like an absolute nutter as I'm I love it pushing it around. But here's the thing, right. One, skin cancer in my family a very real deal. Two, I have a lot of tattoos. I gotta protect that business. Yeah, Like, why would I sit through the pain of a tattoo and then not do everything in my power to preserve it as long as possible. I also have very fair skin in a family history of various skin cancers, and so when the weather is a little cooler, I have a bunch I have been building a collection of like is it UPF the protection rating for fabrics. Yeah, just an assortment of clothing for that purpose. And I always have on a hat and especially if it's skin if I'm going to be outside and Britson for a long time, a very wide brim hat which I recently also got a mosquito net to go over because the bugs have been so bad. Nice. So yeah, yeah, I'm also a big fan of a parasol. Yeah, I have a couple of parasol. I haven't made use of them as recently just because I haven't. Uh, that's it's it's one of my favorite things to bring with me if I'm going to like the Renaissance Festival, some kind of outdoor event that I'm gonna be out walking around. I have a picture of the two of us at a rooftop event where it became apparent that I had many parasols at work because you were visiting the office and we both have my parasols. That's like, I know I did not bring those specifically for that day. I think I just had parasols at my desk in case of sun Yeah, was this maybe on the roof of like pont City Marketing, Yeah, back when we were there. Yeah. Yeah. My other favorite thing that has the invention, which I didn't mention here because I don't know when it started, is makeup foundation with SPF. Yeah. I have an assortment of like facial sunscreens, facial most like tinted moisturizers with SPF yes, other facial products with sp that I have a lot of that. This is also very tricky because if you are a very fair person and you need sunscreen on your face, that often also and I have no scientific stuff at hand to back this up, but in my experiential knowledge, those tend to also be the same people who are very sensitive to a variety of products on their sure, So it's like finding the right one can be a little bit tricky, and then once you do, you're married to it. There are also various like more cosmetically oriented products that have an SPF rating on them, but the amount that a person typically puts on their face is not enough to actually be protected, and that like that's an issue with other sunscreen also, like I have heard a guideline I don't. I'm not gonna repeat the exact guideline because I'm afraid I'm gonna say it wrong and I will have given people wrong advice about something important. But like I've heard a bunch of coverage about the amount of sunscreen that people put on their bodies is often like not actually enough, like yeah on there than you think you do. Yeah, that is why that one thing that we mentioned during the episode that like a lot of people are like they're only getting half the benefit of it any given f SPF because nobody wants to put on a layer thick enough to actually do the work. This has reminded me of when we were in Italy and I think we were in like Chinquitara, and we were standing in the street just sort of recongregating, and I was resunblocking myself and for whatever reason, everyone kind of turned around as I had this like thick, not rubbed in layer of whites unscreen on my face. I was just like, give me a sun working on it. I'm working on it. I'm doing it. I will tell you my favorite sunscreen. Okay, they don't, they don't sponsor the show. I have no ties to them other than it makes me smile. It's the name is gross. It's called Unicorn Snot and it's a sunscreen that comes in thirty SPF and it has a biodegradable glitter in it. Fun So if I'm going to Disney World, you better believe I'm slatheringing that stuff. It's very sunscreen to have on, very favorite. Yeah. The other thing that I wanted to mention, and I found it in one paper, which is a paper that's often cited by a lot of other people, and it's very well researched, at least appears to be mentioned. An apocryphal story is kind of an aside in the segment where they were talking about red vet pet and the top secret price during World War II, which is that the author of that paper, Frederick Erbach, mentioned that he had a relative who had been in World War One who claimed, that's not secret. We were using it in World War One. I think the government just got the idea that they would do a project. But that is all apocryphal. We don't really know the scoop there. The other thing we promised we would talk about was that whole thing about SPF and time versus exposure, because initially right and I think most places you will see it repeated this way. Is that SPF means like, if you have SPF fifteen, that means you could be in the sun fifteen times longer than you could without it before you become burned. And that has given people these crazy ideas of like, well, great, I'll stand the sun for fifteen hours. And I think that is why I now like the Skin Cancer Foundation and other medical organizations are like, let's not talk about it that way. Yeah, let's remind people that you need to be applying more often than every fifteen hours or whatever. And that is that thing where it gives people a false sense of security of like, oh, I put on like SPF thirty, it's like a sweater came out. I'm fine. I don't have to reapply during the day. Yes you do. Yeah. When I was a kid, I remember my grandparents took my brother and me swimming at a lake in a park and my mom had put sunscreen on my brother and me before we went. My grandparents didn't know and did not reapply any any sunscreen on my brother and me. And I remember my back specifically, like the part of my back that was not covered by my little child swimsuit got sun and my mom was livid. It just like they just did not they did not know about needing to put it on again. Yeah, I mean I had had some doozy sunburns in my time. One that was just terrible. When I went, I had to get like burn lotion. No, like the doctor gave me like the same kind of cream that they would give to burn victims. It was quite bad. But I can I've never had a sunburn that bad. I got a sunburn one time I was I was in a drum and bugle corps when I was in high school, and there was often just a push to be rehearsing, and like they cut our water breake short. Yeah, and I hadn't been able to get somebody else to like sunblock the part of my back that I couldn't reach, Yeah, because we all we practiced in shorts and sports. Of course it's probably hot and so like I'm going back to my spot on the field putting the sun block where I could reach, and I wound up, you know, with that zone that I couldn't actually reach, sunburned enough to be really uncomfortable. There was also a lot of medications can affect your susceptibility to the sun. Oh yeah. So at one point in my life when I was on prozac, I got sunburned walking from my car to like watch a commencement address. And I like walked to my car and I sat under a tree and I put sunscreen on while I was sitting under the tree, and like the walk from the car to the tree, which was astoundish, astoundingly short, I got like sunburned in that little window. Yes, uh yeah, I mean it's it's astonishing how quickly it can happen, even if you're not on medications there, you know, like especially because it's getting hotter all the time. I know, we said, like heat isn't the thing, but there is more and more exposure. You're getting more and more UV than we used to. And I forget. I had a similar thing recently where I had, like I'm trying to remember if it was when I was in London, which I was in April of this year, and I literally we were staying near the Excel Center where Star Wars celebration was happening. We were in a hotel much closer than most people, and so it was like dragging your feet like a five minute walk down to shade and I was wearing like a little v neck dress. And when I was eating a few hours later, someone was like, when did you get sunburned? And it was like on my chest from like I hadn't applied sunscreen for that quick walk, thinking I'm just running down to the convention center. I don't want to be glorped up all day. Yeah, burn mild, very mild, but it still happened. I've gotten in the habit of checking the UVN, although there have definitely been some times when I have looked at the weather report and what it has told me the UV index was I've walked outside and I'm like, that cannot be correct. It is much brighter out here than this apps and seems to think. But after a similar situation where it was something like eight or nine in the morning and I got not bad, I got a little pink which I did not want on the walk from my apartment to the train station. And after that, I got in the habit of like, even if I'm going out for a couple minutes really fast, and similarly like, don't don't then want to have stuff on me all day long, Like I'm always looking at the uv indecks before I go outside. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm just My plan of action is basically to continue to be crazy Victorian witch covered to do. Yeah, I have a whole thing that contains an assortment of sunscreens and insect repellents, and it like that comes anytime there's like a group outdoor activity, like that whole thing comes with me. So it's for me and everyone. Yes, I also am a big fan of the spray on sunscreens, but they often don't smell great to me. It's very tricky, but it's worth that. You got to find the one that works for you because we want all of you to be safe. So if you are going out in the sun this weekend, please please please please please please please please please wear your sunscreen. If you are not going out in the sun but you have time off, we still hope you have a great time. If you don't have time off, I'm sorry, I hope you get time off suntime and that you still have a great time. And if you're working outside you know already, but wear your sunscreen. I sound like a mom. We will be right back here tomorrow with a Saturday Classic and then on Monday with a new episode, and we'll both be wearing sunscreen the whole time. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.