Episode 170: Reviving Degraded Soils Through Biological Farming with Jake Neustadt and Morgan Twain-Peterson

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Hi friends, this is John.

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Welcome back to the Region of

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Agriculture podcast.

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We either fortunately or

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unfortunately,

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we are living in the times of

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the ancient Chinese proverb, may

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you live in interesting times.

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These are certainly interesting

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times, I think, for many of us.

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They're very challenging times.

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And you know, it's in those

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interesting and challenging

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times that

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you have both the greatest risk,

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the greatest resistance,

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to change and the greatest

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opportunities.

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It's kind of this interesting

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contrast where you have the

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greatest opportunities that are

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emerging in these challenging

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times and also

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the greatest risk for many of

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people who are already real

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established.

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And so it's and this is true

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across the entire agricultural

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sector. And perhaps in almost no

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space is this more true than in

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wine production, where we

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have dramatic decreases in wine

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consumption

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and

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particularly in lower grade

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wines, as I understand it.

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It's really the top, the premium

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wines that are the best

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performing. And so there's,

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that's where the opportunity is

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and also where the challenge

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exists is how do you get there?

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So I'm delighted to have this

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conversation today with Morgan

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and Jake.

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Thank you both for being here.

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I'm not going to try to

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communicate your story.

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You've got lots of different

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things going on.

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Tell us a bit about

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the scope of your work, what all

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you're involved with, and how

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you got here.

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Yeah, so Jake and I are with

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Bedrock Wine Company, a winery

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that I founded back in 2007.

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When I started, it was just me

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working out of a 550 square foot

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chicken coop, fermentations

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outside, everything done by

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hand.

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And gradually, we've grown up a

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little bit.

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And the overall goal of the

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winery since day one, though,

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has been to work with really old

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vineyards in California.

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I think what people don't

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realize is that we have some of

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the greatest

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viticultural or agricultural

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treasures in the world and that

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we have vines that are in the

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ground that date to the 1880s.

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So some of the very first vines

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that were planted on resistant

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rootstocks to a root louse

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called Phylloxera,

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and then we even have vines that

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are own rooted in very sandy

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soils that date to the 1890s.

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And within these vineyards, we

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have incredible genetic

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diversity.

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So at our home bedrock vineyard,

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for instance,

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we have over 29 different

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interplanted varieties.

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And among all of the vineyards

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we oversee and farm, we have

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over 50, including varietals

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that have no matching genetic

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fingerprint and worldwide

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databases, which means they're

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extinct where they originally

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came from in Europe, but they

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still exist in our vineyards in

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California.

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So, you know, I feel like in

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some ways we're kind of

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curators of a museum on top of,

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you know,

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hopefully making delicious, you

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know, soulful wine for people to

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enjoy.

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And what we really love about

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that too is we really

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make wine that is truly and

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distinctly Californian.

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When you have vineyards that are

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kind of based around a real

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melting pot of varieties like

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Zinfandel, which is Croatian in

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origin,

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and then varieties from Spain

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and Portugal and France and

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Italy and Central Europe,

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that hodgepodge of varieties

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only exists in California.

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So it's the sort of one wine

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that we make here that we really

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aren't looking elsewhere for

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inspiration,

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which is not something you can

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say. If you make Pinot Noir,

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The great Pinot Noirs originally

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are from Burgundy.

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If you make Cabernet, the first

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great Cabernets are from

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Bordeaux.

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But when you make these old vine

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field blended wines, they're

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really unique to California.

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Morgan, you got the company

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started.

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Jake, what has been your journey

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and story? What got you involved

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working with these old wine

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vineyards?

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So I came out of school from

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actually University of

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California, Davis.

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So one of the more well known

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wine programs, but I came out

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just as a very green undergrad,

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working in cellars, making wine,

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but then found myself wanting to

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get into the field and actually

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accepting a job.

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on a field crew for a full

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season down in the southern

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island of New Zealand in the

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Otago region.

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So I worked shoe thinning, fruit

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thinning, all the way to

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harvesting for a full season in

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New Zealand.

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And that led me back to

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California,

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keeping in viticulture.

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So I took a job,

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a one year job at a winery

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called Ridge Winery, which was

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one of the, along with

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Ravenswood, which is in Morgan's

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family, one

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of the original old vine

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makers of old vine vineyards, of

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these mixed Zinfandel vineyards,

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also one of the early

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wineries that pushed organic

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practices.

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So I worked a full year at Ridge

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and through the connection of

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Ridge and the Historic Vineyard

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Society,

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which is another thing to talk

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about, but both Ridge and

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Bedrock are in the Historic

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Vineyard Society and

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my mentor at Ridge, David Gates,

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who's their president of

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viticulture,

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connected me with Morgan because

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essentially at that time,

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which was 2015,

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Bedrock was making the same

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production that it is now.

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But with half the people with

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Morgan was overseeing all the

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vineyards that we had that we

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were farming.

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So essentially,

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I got hoisted onto Morgan as

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here's someone who can help you

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with

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this project.

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We refer to David Gates at Ridge

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oftentimes as the Yoda of the

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wine industry.

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When he calls and says, hey,

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we've got this extremely

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promising

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who may be the best intern we've

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ever had at Ridge you you pay

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attention and and thankfully we

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did because Jake has really been

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instrumental in kind of taking

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what.

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I kind of hoped for on the broad

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level and really on the day to

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day, implementing it and looking

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at it and that's really been,

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you know,

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my right hand as we've sort of

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gone through the trials and

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tribulations of moving these old

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vineyards, many of which have

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been very traditionally farmed

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via a lot of tillage.

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Uh, usually no cover crops, um,

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oftentimes dry land farmed, um,

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and moving those into, you know,

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non till organic systems with

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holistic grazing practices.

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Um, and all that good stuff

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like.

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figuring out how we can run a

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roller crimper in the vineyard

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and do all of that stuff.

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So, you know, we've learned a

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lot over the last, you know, 10,

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11 years as we've, you know,

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weathered droughts.

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We've got wet seasons, you know,

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but every year I feel like we

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come out, we've learned an

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enormous amount, which is also

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what makes it so fun in many

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ways.

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I'll also say it's very rare

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that I don't walk a vineyard

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with Jake and I'm going home to

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look something up because he's,

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you know, already engaged with a

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new idea that I haven't even

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thought about. So that's always

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really, really special.

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Morgan, tell us a bit about the

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scope or the scale of Bedrock.

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What scale are you operating on,

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just to give us some perspective

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for the different things that

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you're trying?

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Yeah, so there's not a lot of

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old vineyards left in

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California, so we kind of have

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to go to where they are.

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So they're sort of smaller

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pockets and they're quite spread

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out. So our sort of home core

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vineyard is Bedrock Vineyard

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right in the middle of Sonoma

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Valley.

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We have 152 acres in total

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there.

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33 acres are the 1888 planting,

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so that's actually one of the

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largest chunks of old vines left

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in Northern California.

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But then we farm vineyards up in

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North Sonoma County closer to

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Healdsburg.

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We have one vineyard in Napa.

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Then we also farm in Contra

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Costa County, which is out in

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Antioch, which is actually just

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it's surrounded by

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warehouses and tract homes.

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But there's 1890s planted vines

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and sand right on the delta

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there. And then we also have a

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vineyard that we farm in Lodi.

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So sort of all told, we're,

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you know, close to, you know,

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300 acres, but spread out across

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a pretty wide geographic swath.

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00:08:18,310 --> 00:08:20,750
Jake, when you think about

290
00:08:20,939 --> 00:08:23,139
if you have that geographic

291
00:08:23,139 --> 00:08:23,939
distribution,

292
00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:26,139
and Morgan mentioned a key point

293
00:08:26,139 --> 00:08:27,500
earlier, you have these historic

294
00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:28,540
mines that

295
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,159
and historical vineyard

296
00:08:30,159 --> 00:08:30,959
management,

297
00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:32,580
where you have soils that have

298
00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:33,419
been tilled

299
00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:36,799
for decades, or perhaps

300
00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:38,820
centuries plus, that have

301
00:08:38,820 --> 00:08:40,120
potentially become quite

302
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:40,919
degraded.

303
00:08:41,570 --> 00:08:43,129
What are some of the challenges,

304
00:08:43,490 --> 00:08:45,830
and what

305
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,779
has historical cultural

306
00:08:47,779 --> 00:08:49,379
management look like, and what

307
00:08:49,379 --> 00:08:50,539
are you transitioning it to?

308
00:08:50,659 --> 00:08:53,039
What does it look like today,

309
00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:54,379
and what do you hope for it to

310
00:08:54,379 --> 00:08:55,179
look like in the future?

311
00:08:56,180 --> 00:08:57,360
Right, it's a big question.

312
00:08:59,769 --> 00:09:00,870
one of these vineyards that

313
00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:02,970
we've taken on to rehab has had

314
00:09:02,970 --> 00:09:05,129
such a different past,

315
00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:07,049
and because of their vastly

316
00:09:07,049 --> 00:09:08,629
different climates and soils and

317
00:09:08,629 --> 00:09:09,429
context,

318
00:09:10,370 --> 00:09:11,690
the plan

319
00:09:12,069 --> 00:09:13,509
has been very different, but the

320
00:09:13,509 --> 00:09:15,669
trajectory is always the same,

321
00:09:16,169 --> 00:09:16,969
or the

322
00:09:17,879 --> 00:09:20,019
set

323
00:09:20,330 --> 00:09:22,169
of goals is always the same, but

324
00:09:22,169 --> 00:09:24,470
on to different contexts.

325
00:09:26,590 --> 00:09:27,750
So I'll

326
00:09:28,669 --> 00:09:30,110
take Bedrock as an example.

327
00:09:30,769 --> 00:09:32,889
In Sonoma so bedrock has a

328
00:09:32,889 --> 00:09:34,230
history unique from some of

329
00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:35,590
these older vineyards and that

330
00:09:35,870 --> 00:09:38,069
it was put on to irrigation

331
00:09:38,069 --> 00:09:39,710
relatively early.

332
00:09:39,860 --> 00:09:42,500
and was actually farmed for

333
00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:45,340
white Zinfandel during the

334
00:09:45,779 --> 00:09:48,539
1900s,

335
00:09:48,779 --> 00:09:50,879
the 70s, 80s, 90s.

336
00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:52,600
And that meant they were pushing

337
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,299
these old vines with a lot of

338
00:09:54,299 --> 00:09:55,940
water, a lot of fertilizer to be

339
00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:57,440
highly productive.

340
00:09:58,700 --> 00:10:00,919
So it went in a very, very

341
00:10:00,919 --> 00:10:02,580
conventional direction.

342
00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:04,000
Whereas some of the other

343
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,179
vineyards we take on,

344
00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:07,279
are still in a very traditional

345
00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:08,980
dry farmed context.

346
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:10,679
So that means there's no

347
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:11,479
irrigation.

348
00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:13,120
They're usually cross cultivated

349
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,769
or because there's no

350
00:10:14,769 --> 00:10:16,870
irrigation, you can till in both

351
00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:17,669
directions.

352
00:10:18,129 --> 00:10:19,370
So you get this what's called a

353
00:10:19,370 --> 00:10:20,629
dust mulch on the field.

354
00:10:21,649 --> 00:10:23,090
So those are just vastly

355
00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:25,580
different starting

356
00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:26,789
points,

357
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:28,590
neither of which are where we

358
00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:30,070
want to be ultimately.

359
00:10:31,429 --> 00:10:34,710
But they yield very different

360
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:36,370
problems and

361
00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:38,850
are a much different transition.

362
00:10:39,149 --> 00:10:39,949
So that's

363
00:10:39,909 --> 00:10:41,610
kind of the broad scope of what

364
00:10:41,610 --> 00:10:42,409
we deal with.

365
00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:44,750
But that's some of the history

366
00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:46,590
of where these various plantings

367
00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:47,389
are coming from.

368
00:10:47,389 --> 00:10:48,769
Where do you hope to take them?

369
00:10:50,509 --> 00:10:52,509
So again, it's still context

370
00:10:52,509 --> 00:10:55,149
dependent in that, like at

371
00:10:55,149 --> 00:10:56,210
Bedrock, for instance,

372
00:10:56,529 --> 00:10:58,029
we have water there.

373
00:10:58,169 --> 00:10:59,669
Some vineyards, we truly don't

374
00:10:59,669 --> 00:11:01,210
have water. And if we do, it's

375
00:11:01,210 --> 00:11:02,009
salty.

376
00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:05,559
At Bedrock, we have all the

377
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,960
tools to take a very

378
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,139
aggressive,

379
00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:11,200
I would say, soil rehabilitation

380
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,539
approach by using

381
00:11:13,539 --> 00:11:16,559
our irrigation system to be able

382
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,610
to apply biology and also

383
00:11:19,610 --> 00:11:22,669
support the vines through a no

384
00:11:22,669 --> 00:11:23,470
-till transition.

385
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,059
And then out at Evangelo, which

386
00:11:27,059 --> 00:11:28,460
is our vineyard in Contra Costa

387
00:11:28,460 --> 00:11:29,259
County,

388
00:11:30,330 --> 00:11:32,430
we only get an average of 8 to

389
00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:34,730
10 inches of rain out there.

390
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,159
It's on sand, whereas at Bedrock

391
00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:39,240
and Sonoma, we get 30 inches of

392
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,039
rain,

393
00:11:40,330 --> 00:11:41,750
both very Mediterranean,

394
00:11:42,070 --> 00:11:43,090
so this rain is highly

395
00:11:43,090 --> 00:11:44,429
concentrated to the winter

396
00:11:44,429 --> 00:11:45,229
months.

397
00:11:46,620 --> 00:11:48,100
But so at Evangelo,

398
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,259
we are using

399
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:52,110
the tools we have, which means

400
00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:52,909
we are still

401
00:11:53,259 --> 00:11:55,080
cross -cultivating that

402
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:55,879
vineyard,

403
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,799
but we've changed our foliar

404
00:11:58,950 --> 00:11:59,909
program

405
00:12:00,429 --> 00:12:03,250
dramatically to support the

406
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:04,250
vines from a nutrition

407
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:05,049
standpoint.

408
00:12:05,919 --> 00:12:07,379
And that's already brought in a

409
00:12:07,379 --> 00:12:09,059
lot of resilience.

410
00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:10,500
So we're kind of trying to

411
00:12:11,710 --> 00:12:14,149
maximize vine health at a

412
00:12:14,149 --> 00:12:15,269
vineyard like that with the

413
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:16,210
tools that we have.

414
00:12:16,529 --> 00:12:18,830
And then maybe that'll unlock a

415
00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:19,629
next step

416
00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:23,340
to be able to look more at what

417
00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:25,320
we can do with that soil.

418
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,419
I think fundamentally what we're

419
00:12:28,419 --> 00:12:30,460
looking at in both contexts,

420
00:12:30,539 --> 00:12:32,600
though, is building soil biology

421
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:33,399
back.

422
00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:35,120
So when we're in a dry land

423
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,819
system like a Vangelo vineyard,

424
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:38,200
we almost have to think about

425
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,960
that as sort of top down soil

426
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,200
biology where we can feed the

427
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,340
plant via foliars.

428
00:12:43,419 --> 00:12:44,519
And hopefully that helps with

429
00:12:44,519 --> 00:12:46,340
root exudates and feed biology

430
00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:48,500
around the vine roots, as well

431
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:51,539
as At Bedrock Vineyard, you

432
00:12:51,539 --> 00:12:53,860
know, we are very aggressive in

433
00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:55,759
trying to build soil organic

434
00:12:55,759 --> 00:12:58,759
matter back up the crimping

435
00:12:58,759 --> 00:13:00,279
animal integration.

436
00:13:01,919 --> 00:13:03,240
And, you know, because in that

437
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,759
situation, in terms of what we

438
00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:05,559
inherited,

439
00:13:06,139 --> 00:13:07,779
you know, we had soil organic

440
00:13:07,779 --> 00:13:10,799
matter 10 years ago at like 0

441
00:13:10,799 --> 00:13:12,519
.3, 0 .4 percent.

442
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,220
And we've been able to build

443
00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:16,740
that back up to four and a half

444
00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:18,860
to 5%, and that obviously has a

445
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,620
really profound effect on water

446
00:13:21,620 --> 00:13:23,940
capture and water holding.

447
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,639
So, you know, we see 20 to 23

448
00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:29,850
,000 gallons per acre for every

449
00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:31,149
one person. increase in soil

450
00:13:31,149 --> 00:13:32,669
organic matter, but then also

451
00:13:32,669 --> 00:13:34,889
really critical to that is

452
00:13:34,889 --> 00:13:36,929
because we're a non till you

453
00:13:36,929 --> 00:13:38,350
here in northern California, we

454
00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:39,850
get hammered with atmospheric

455
00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:40,649
rivers.

456
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,379
Which means we get a lot of our

457
00:13:42,379 --> 00:13:43,740
rainfall all at once.

458
00:13:43,940 --> 00:13:45,840
So if you're in a system, a

459
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,139
traditional tillage system, for

460
00:13:47,139 --> 00:13:48,919
instance, and you have tilled

461
00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:50,340
your soil or you've spread

462
00:13:50,340 --> 00:13:51,700
compost, tilled your soil,

463
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,940
seeded your cover crops, and

464
00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:55,019
it's the end of October, and

465
00:13:55,019 --> 00:13:56,080
then all of a sudden we get nine

466
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,659
inches of rain, you have no

467
00:13:57,659 --> 00:13:59,720
roots in the ground, a lot of

468
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,000
that rain runs off.

469
00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:03,860
So, you know, for us, it's been

470
00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:05,000
about, you know, critically

471
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:05,860
capturing that.

472
00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:06,899
And,

473
00:14:06,620 --> 00:14:08,019
you know, we run soil analysis

474
00:14:08,019 --> 00:14:09,519
and we also run soil analysis on

475
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:11,159
the surrounding chaparral.

476
00:14:11,299 --> 00:14:12,940
So we kind of know where the

477
00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:14,179
vineyard started back in the

478
00:14:14,179 --> 00:14:15,980
1880s and what would sort of be

479
00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:18,000
a natural soil here.

480
00:14:18,179 --> 00:14:19,279
And then we're trying to kind of

481
00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:22,000
rebuild and allow kind of Mother

482
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,679
Nature to repair itself in some

483
00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:26,820
ways via our practices.

484
00:14:28,690 --> 00:14:29,509
I'd like to come back,

485
00:14:30,149 --> 00:14:31,330
Jake, to you and a comment that

486
00:14:31,330 --> 00:14:32,149
you made about

487
00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:34,960
working with foliar applications

488
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,639
and kind of building biology

489
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:37,620
from the top down.

490
00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:39,460
But before we go there, I want

491
00:14:39,460 --> 00:14:40,259
to,

492
00:14:40,419 --> 00:14:41,899
Morgan, I want to ask you about

493
00:14:41,899 --> 00:14:44,629
your vision as a

494
00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:47,740
curator of genetic uniqueness

495
00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:50,019
and these various genetics that

496
00:14:50,019 --> 00:14:51,019
are no longer readily,

497
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,360
that are not widely grown or no

498
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,159
longer readily available

499
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:54,919
necessarily.

500
00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:56,289
How

501
00:14:57,250 --> 00:15:00,529
What is your vision of bedrock

502
00:15:00,529 --> 00:15:01,610
and the scope of the work that

503
00:15:01,610 --> 00:15:02,789
you're doing? Are you expecting

504
00:15:02,789 --> 00:15:04,090
to see those genetics become

505
00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:05,590
more broadly utilized again at

506
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:06,409
some point in the future?

507
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,659
What's the vision behind that?

508
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:12,409
Yeah, I mean, I think some of it

509
00:15:12,409 --> 00:15:13,769
is we don't fully know the

510
00:15:13,769 --> 00:15:15,129
answer to it. But what we do

511
00:15:15,129 --> 00:15:17,870
know is that as we see

512
00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:20,350
weather weirding and climate

513
00:15:20,350 --> 00:15:22,750
change in certain areas, there's

514
00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:23,950
certain varieties that have

515
00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:25,549
narrow windows they do

516
00:15:25,549 --> 00:15:26,509
particularly well.

517
00:15:27,009 --> 00:15:28,350
And a number of those varieties

518
00:15:28,350 --> 00:15:29,210
are the ones that are

519
00:15:29,559 --> 00:15:31,080
widely sold and planted

520
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,299
throughout the world like Pinot

521
00:15:32,299 --> 00:15:34,179
Noir and Chardonnay and

522
00:15:34,179 --> 00:15:36,539
Cabernet. So at some point,

523
00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:37,840
we're going to have to start

524
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,659
thinking about what varieties

525
00:15:39,659 --> 00:15:40,899
that we can plant that will be

526
00:15:40,899 --> 00:15:43,899
better adapted to the evolution

527
00:15:43,899 --> 00:15:45,840
of climate.

528
00:15:46,179 --> 00:15:47,179
I mean, it's getting warmer and

529
00:15:47,179 --> 00:15:48,779
warmer in Napa, and you see

530
00:15:48,779 --> 00:15:51,120
people that are already starting

531
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,740
to plant varieties that hold

532
00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:55,340
acid better, that stand up to

533
00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:56,919
extreme heat events better.

534
00:15:58,019 --> 00:15:58,819
So

535
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:00,860
you know, in the context of

536
00:16:00,860 --> 00:16:01,899
being part of the Historic

537
00:16:01,899 --> 00:16:02,699
Vineyard Society,

538
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,620
part of what we've done is

539
00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:06,500
actually gone through and taken

540
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:08,659
cuttings of all of our rare

541
00:16:08,659 --> 00:16:10,419
varieties and then worked with

542
00:16:10,419 --> 00:16:11,740
University of California Davis

543
00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:14,379
to clean those up of virus,

544
00:16:14,620 --> 00:16:15,980
because a lot of these old

545
00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:17,879
vineyards have varying levels of

546
00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:20,240
virus in them, and then have

547
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,940
them available as sort of an

548
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:24,600
open source through their

549
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,379
ranches and through their sort

550
00:16:26,379 --> 00:16:27,179
of

551
00:16:26,860 --> 00:16:28,600
germplasm or whatever you want

552
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,399
to call it.

553
00:16:30,379 --> 00:16:31,559
So that means that not only do

554
00:16:31,559 --> 00:16:33,620
we have California selections of

555
00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:37,039
varieties of more popular grapes

556
00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:40,340
like Grenache or Syrah or Petite

557
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:41,139
Syrah,

558
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,700
we even have 1888 planted

559
00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:43,639
Cabernet at Bedrock.

560
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:44,740
We have some of the oldest in

561
00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:45,539
the world,

562
00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:48,680
but also the really rare things

563
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,919
like Mollard and Persan and Etre

564
00:16:50,919 --> 00:16:51,899
de la Douille and all these

565
00:16:51,899 --> 00:16:53,379
things that we have two, three

566
00:16:53,379 --> 00:16:54,179
vines

567
00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:55,860
total that we've ever seen in

568
00:16:55,860 --> 00:16:56,759
all of California.

569
00:16:57,059 --> 00:16:58,659
So I think we're just kind of

570
00:16:58,659 --> 00:16:59,840
trying to capture that.

571
00:17:00,319 --> 00:17:01,559
I think part of what really

572
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,500
feeds our vineyard practice is

573
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:05,299
that to me,

574
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,660
almost all, we often get asked

575
00:17:07,660 --> 00:17:09,099
how old a vineyard can actually

576
00:17:09,349 --> 00:17:11,230
age to. And for me,

577
00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:13,640
I feel like every old vineyard

578
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:14,539
that I've seen that's gotten

579
00:17:14,539 --> 00:17:16,859
torn out, it's been because of

580
00:17:16,859 --> 00:17:18,640
humans. It's because of,

581
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,160
they become no longer

582
00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:22,880
but non -economic because vines

583
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,279
haven't been replanted as

584
00:17:24,279 --> 00:17:25,720
they've died. People have really

585
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,160
drawn down on soil bank

586
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,500
accounts. They've created a lot

587
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:29,299
of compaction.

588
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,680
They've weakened the vines to

589
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,460
the point that they become more

590
00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:36,759
and more prone to pest pressure.

591
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:39,089
And all of that then nets to the

592
00:17:39,089 --> 00:17:40,710
fact that they are no longer

593
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:42,390
economically viable and then

594
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:43,750
they get torn out and replanted.

595
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:45,549
So I think those are a

596
00:17:45,549 --> 00:17:47,009
reflection of management or all

597
00:17:47,009 --> 00:17:47,809
of them, really.

598
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:48,919
Exactly.

599
00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:50,099
So, yeah, human management.

600
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,440
So that's the yeah.

601
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,900
So, you know, that's the thing

602
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:56,180
here where we really feel

603
00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:58,680
strongly that the way that I

604
00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:59,480
think

605
00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:00,839
based on the health response

606
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:01,880
that we're seeing from our

607
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,279
plants over the last six, seven,

608
00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:05,500
eight years, as we've moved into

609
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:07,740
these practices, it really feels

610
00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:08,839
like we're able to kind of

611
00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:11,079
reverse the tide in these

612
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:13,079
vineyards in terms of what their

613
00:18:13,079 --> 00:18:14,720
ultimate longevity might be.

614
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,859
And that means that we're also

615
00:18:15,859 --> 00:18:16,920
going to better be able to

616
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,339
preserve, you know, the

617
00:18:18,339 --> 00:18:20,220
remarkable diversity of genetics

618
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:21,019
that are in there.

619
00:18:22,069 --> 00:18:22,869
You know,

620
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:24,470
there's several directions I'd

621
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:25,529
like to take this discussion,

622
00:18:25,769 --> 00:18:27,829
but you mentioned cleaning up

623
00:18:27,829 --> 00:18:29,289
the viruses in the in the

624
00:18:29,289 --> 00:18:30,089
cuttings.

625
00:18:30,349 --> 00:18:32,549
I understand that on one level,

626
00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:34,670
but if you haven't yet listened

627
00:18:34,670 --> 00:18:36,029
to the podcast interview that I

628
00:18:36,029 --> 00:18:37,309
did with Benny McLean from

629
00:18:37,309 --> 00:18:38,529
Florida Citrus,

630
00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:40,640
history and the historical

631
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:41,440
context,

632
00:18:42,180 --> 00:18:44,059
once they cleaned up the viruses

633
00:18:44,059 --> 00:18:46,500
from genetic propagation is when

634
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:48,779
genetic resilience went down the

635
00:18:48,779 --> 00:18:49,579
slide.

636
00:18:50,259 --> 00:18:52,400
What are those viruses doing

637
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,119
from a resilience and future

638
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,559
disease resistance perspective

639
00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:57,859
that we don't fully recognize or

640
00:18:57,859 --> 00:18:58,779
appreciate at this point?

641
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:00,700
That's a really interesting

642
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:01,839
point, John. It's something we

643
00:19:01,839 --> 00:19:03,319
talk about all the time because

644
00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:04,299
there's this,

645
00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:07,259
the wine industry is so focused

646
00:19:07,259 --> 00:19:09,759
on virus and rightfully so for a

647
00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:11,880
lot of reasons, but our old

648
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:12,880
vines have

649
00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:15,230
basically every virus.

650
00:19:15,460 --> 00:19:16,740
you can have.

651
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,640
They thrived with them.

652
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:22,099
Right. And it's a question of, I

653
00:19:22,099 --> 00:19:22,899
don't know,

654
00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:24,619
of course, a lot of them were

655
00:19:24,619 --> 00:19:26,400
planted into much healthier soil

656
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,000
than we're planting vineyards

657
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:28,799
now.

658
00:19:30,619 --> 00:19:32,779
And then I don't know what virus

659
00:19:32,779 --> 00:19:33,839
load they had when they were

660
00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:35,220
planted. I'm sure there was

661
00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:36,019
plenty.

662
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,609
But they

663
00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:40,490
They don't have any of the

664
00:19:40,490 --> 00:19:43,589
issues that we see with young

665
00:19:43,589 --> 00:19:45,170
vines being planted with leaf

666
00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:46,450
roll three, for example,

667
00:19:47,289 --> 00:19:49,309
which will not ripen, which will

668
00:19:49,309 --> 00:19:50,109
not thrive.

669
00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:51,849
But then these old vines that

670
00:19:51,849 --> 00:19:52,829
have all these viruses,

671
00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:55,349
deep roots, all these things do

672
00:19:55,349 --> 00:19:56,690
really well. And that is always

673
00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:58,539
something I find fascinating.

674
00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:00,799
I don't know how appropriate it

675
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:02,200
is to think of mammalian

676
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,480
immunity as an analog here, but

677
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:05,279
when you have,

678
00:20:05,619 --> 00:20:06,900
you actually need viral

679
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:07,700
exposure.

680
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:11,069
to develop antibiotics to analog

681
00:20:11,069 --> 00:20:13,009
viruses and to create some

682
00:20:13,009 --> 00:20:14,089
immunity and some resistance.

683
00:20:14,289 --> 00:20:15,269
So I don't know how appropriate

684
00:20:15,269 --> 00:20:16,390
it is to have that conversation

685
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:18,089
because it's not domain that I'm

686
00:20:18,089 --> 00:20:19,549
particularly expert in,

687
00:20:20,309 --> 00:20:21,329
but or have a lot of knowledge

688
00:20:21,329 --> 00:20:22,309
about. But it's certainly

689
00:20:22,309 --> 00:20:23,250
something to think about.

690
00:20:23,859 --> 00:20:24,659
I think it comes down

691
00:20:24,579 --> 00:20:25,579
fundamentally to

692
00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:29,150
this different perspective of of

693
00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:30,309
agriculture and of the

694
00:20:30,309 --> 00:20:31,809
microbiome is do we have an

695
00:20:31,809 --> 00:20:33,470
antibiotic approach or a

696
00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:34,509
probiotic approach?

697
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:36,049
Are we collaborating with the

698
00:20:36,049 --> 00:20:37,230
microbiome or do we

699
00:20:37,769 --> 00:20:39,750
believe that things need to be

700
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:40,650
sterile to be the most

701
00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:41,450
effective.

702
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:43,779
Absolutely. Absolutely.

703
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,460
And I mean, I think in

704
00:20:45,779 --> 00:20:47,200
the wine industry, too, that

705
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,940
concept really plays very

706
00:20:50,309 --> 00:20:52,210
distinctly to the idea of

707
00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:53,009
quality. Right.

708
00:20:52,910 --> 00:20:54,769
Because the greatest wines in

709
00:20:54,769 --> 00:20:56,569
the world, people think are

710
00:20:56,569 --> 00:20:58,849
extremely reflective of their

711
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,619
fancy French word, their

712
00:21:00,619 --> 00:21:01,419
terroir,

713
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,319
their where, you know, where

714
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:04,119
they're grown.

715
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,700
So you would think and I think

716
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,019
this is really what Jake and I,

717
00:21:07,180 --> 00:21:08,559
you know, kind of think about a

718
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:09,359
lot is

719
00:21:09,670 --> 00:21:11,769
of vine that are in better

720
00:21:11,769 --> 00:21:12,569
communication,

721
00:21:12,809 --> 00:21:14,690
that are working synergistically

722
00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:16,069
with the soils, that have more

723
00:21:16,069 --> 00:21:17,410
alive soils, that have more

724
00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:18,210
biology.

725
00:21:18,450 --> 00:21:20,170
We feel that in the winery, we

726
00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:22,309
see that those wines have a

727
00:21:22,309 --> 00:21:24,130
better sense of place, that

728
00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:26,029
bedrock almost is more bedrocky

729
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:28,670
now than it was 10 years ago,

730
00:21:29,769 --> 00:21:30,809
which is just a really

731
00:21:30,809 --> 00:21:31,950
fascinating thing because it's

732
00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:33,650
obviously extremely complex and

733
00:21:33,650 --> 00:21:35,109
you can't reduce it to a single

734
00:21:35,769 --> 00:21:37,670
variable or factor, but at the

735
00:21:37,670 --> 00:21:39,769
same time we're seeing not just

736
00:21:39,769 --> 00:21:41,509
our vineyards becoming much more

737
00:21:41,509 --> 00:21:43,109
resilient to heat events, to

738
00:21:43,109 --> 00:21:44,369
droughts, to floods,

739
00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:48,250
but also seeing a increase

740
00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:51,130
in quality, which is, you know,

741
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:52,289
fundamentally also very

742
00:21:52,289 --> 00:21:53,089
important.

743
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,180
So Morgan,

744
00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:56,750
let's build on what you just

745
00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:57,809
said. Jake, I'd like to come

746
00:21:57,809 --> 00:21:58,609
back to you.

747
00:21:59,069 --> 00:22:01,230
When Morgan is describing the

748
00:22:01,230 --> 00:22:02,490
increasing resilience that

749
00:22:02,490 --> 00:22:03,289
you're observing,

750
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:05,859
I'm sure you're doing many

751
00:22:05,859 --> 00:22:06,660
different things.

752
00:22:07,099 --> 00:22:09,559
What are the different things

753
00:22:09,559 --> 00:22:10,359
that you're doing?

754
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,400
What are the effects that you're

755
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:12,200
observing?

756
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:14,000
Just from a practical

757
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,339
implementation and management

758
00:22:15,339 --> 00:22:16,380
perspective, you mentioned

759
00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:17,559
foliar applications a little bit

760
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:18,559
ago, but I'm sure that they are

761
00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:20,460
one piece of a broad number of

762
00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:21,259
different things that you're

763
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:21,919
working on.

764
00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:24,250
Right. I'll kind of start, go

765
00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:25,289
through a season, kind of

766
00:22:25,289 --> 00:22:26,450
starting with where we're at

767
00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:27,990
right now. So we just ended

768
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:28,789
harvest.

769
00:22:28,809 --> 00:22:30,130
We just got our first rains the

770
00:22:30,130 --> 00:22:31,309
other day. And right before the

771
00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:32,109
rains,

772
00:22:32,869 --> 00:22:35,190
we no -till seeded

773
00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:37,289
This is at Bedrock Vineyard.

774
00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:38,470
So on the whole hundred acres,

775
00:22:38,650 --> 00:22:40,369
no till seeded, a highly diverse

776
00:22:40,650 --> 00:22:42,250
cover crop blend.

777
00:22:44,019 --> 00:22:45,779
So that's essentially all

778
00:22:45,779 --> 00:22:49,220
annuals of legumes and forbs and

779
00:22:49,220 --> 00:22:52,210
grasses that will grow

780
00:22:52,210 --> 00:22:55,549
through to January, where

781
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:57,470
we'll bring in our

782
00:22:58,009 --> 00:22:58,950
shepherd

783
00:22:59,450 --> 00:23:01,470
who helps us out to do non high

784
00:23:01,470 --> 00:23:02,670
intensity grazing.

785
00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:05,539
So we run about 300 sheep an

786
00:23:05,539 --> 00:23:08,720
acre for 24 hours at a time

787
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:09,519
to

788
00:23:09,819 --> 00:23:11,779
48 depending on the amount of

789
00:23:11,779 --> 00:23:13,180
biomass and then move them

790
00:23:13,180 --> 00:23:14,900
through. So everything will get

791
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,980
bitten and trampled once and

792
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:18,779
then

793
00:23:19,349 --> 00:23:20,650
the regrowth that comes back,

794
00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:22,130
because we tend to get

795
00:23:22,130 --> 00:23:24,109
incredible regrowth after the

796
00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:25,670
grazing up to, you know, four,

797
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:27,549
four feet plus of cover crop.

798
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:30,029
And that will get normally

799
00:23:30,029 --> 00:23:31,970
crimped with a roller crimper

800
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:35,460
rolled down, or high mode or a

801
00:23:35,460 --> 00:23:37,400
combination of both.

802
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,400
And the

803
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:41,940
goal is of that in our in our

804
00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:42,960
context is after,

805
00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:44,220
you know, after

806
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,380
March for us, there's typically

807
00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:49,440
no rain until around now, until

808
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,240
mid -October.

809
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,339
So our goal is to create a nice

810
00:23:52,339 --> 00:23:55,000
thick mulch layer on the top of

811
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:55,799
the

812
00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:58,279
vineyard floor to protect,

813
00:23:58,619 --> 00:24:01,799
one, to hold moisture in and

814
00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:04,349
prolong the moist period for

815
00:24:04,349 --> 00:24:05,149
biology.

816
00:24:05,130 --> 00:24:06,289
And then also, once everything

817
00:24:06,289 --> 00:24:08,049
does dry out, just to protect

818
00:24:08,049 --> 00:24:09,769
from outright heat and solar

819
00:24:09,769 --> 00:24:10,569
radiation.

820
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:12,069
So

821
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,059
that takes us through the

822
00:24:14,059 --> 00:24:14,859
summer.

823
00:24:15,509 --> 00:24:17,109
where we are, you know, focusing

824
00:24:17,109 --> 00:24:19,829
on foliar nutrient management,

825
00:24:19,950 --> 00:24:21,690
all these things, and then all

826
00:24:21,690 --> 00:24:23,369
the way to this time of year

827
00:24:23,369 --> 00:24:26,299
where we go back and and seed

828
00:24:26,299 --> 00:24:27,559
again. So that's our I

829
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:29,210
guess that's mostly floor

830
00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:30,490
management, but that's a huge

831
00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:31,430
piece. And that's what we've

832
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:32,390
been doing for

833
00:24:33,079 --> 00:24:35,740
six, seven years consistently is

834
00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:36,539
that program.

835
00:24:37,410 --> 00:24:38,470
And was it in that seven year

836
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:39,549
time frame that you built

837
00:24:39,549 --> 00:24:41,849
organic matter levels from with

838
00:24:41,849 --> 00:24:43,589
these cover crops from half a

839
00:24:43,589 --> 00:24:44,990
percentage point or less up to

840
00:24:46,190 --> 00:24:47,829
So that in some ways the

841
00:24:47,829 --> 00:24:49,549
transition really started more

842
00:24:49,549 --> 00:24:52,369
back in 2008 2010 when the

843
00:24:52,369 --> 00:24:53,650
vineyard was moved from highly

844
00:24:53,650 --> 00:24:55,269
conventional to more what I

845
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:58,029
would call traditional organic

846
00:24:58,029 --> 00:24:59,869
viticulture, especially in this

847
00:24:59,869 --> 00:25:00,669
area.

848
00:25:00,660 --> 00:25:01,640
quality wine region.

849
00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:03,000
So that involved

850
00:25:03,309 --> 00:25:06,599
a lot of compost, like three to

851
00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:08,539
five tons an acre of compost

852
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,180
over the whole 100 acres,

853
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:12,700
spreading that,

854
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,740
tilling that in,

855
00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:16,819
seeding a cover crop, growing a

856
00:25:16,819 --> 00:25:18,119
huge massive cover crop,

857
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:20,809
knocking that down, disking it

858
00:25:20,809 --> 00:25:22,130
in, having bare ground all

859
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:22,930
summer.

860
00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:24,109
But that

861
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,299
certainly helped

862
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:29,019
a lot at the beginning to bring

863
00:25:29,019 --> 00:25:29,819
the soil,

864
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,880
and Morgan you'd know better

865
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,559
than me, but from that like half

866
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:35,200
percent to more like two to two

867
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,940
and a half percent organic

868
00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:38,039
matter and then it kind of

869
00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:40,019
plateaued until we kind of

870
00:25:40,019 --> 00:25:41,819
started the next phase of

871
00:25:42,099 --> 00:25:42,899
practices.

872
00:25:43,220 --> 00:25:44,700
I think that was the real tricky

873
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:46,339
thing is we began to get really

874
00:25:46,339 --> 00:25:47,619
frustrated with sort of

875
00:25:47,619 --> 00:25:49,220
traditional organic practices

876
00:25:49,220 --> 00:25:50,559
that were so tillage based

877
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:52,839
because it really put a ceiling

878
00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:55,740
on our capacity to build soil

879
00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:57,220
organic matter and also just

880
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:58,019
from a,

881
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,420
you know, a carbon standpoint,

882
00:25:59,539 --> 00:26:01,079
it's like you grow these huge

883
00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:02,640
cover crops after you've spread

884
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,119
a ton of compost and all that

885
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,099
compost has arrived.

886
00:26:05,579 --> 00:26:07,640
you know, by truck 24 tons at a

887
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,519
time from a yard,

888
00:26:09,099 --> 00:26:10,380
and all the stuff that's

889
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:11,420
upstream of that.

890
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:14,039
So it's really intensive in

891
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:14,940
terms of inputs.

892
00:26:15,819 --> 00:26:17,259
It's really hard to sometimes

893
00:26:17,259 --> 00:26:18,859
get it all timed, because if you

894
00:26:18,859 --> 00:26:19,960
have a rainstorm coming,

895
00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:21,599
spreading the compost, disking

896
00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:23,140
the compost, getting the seeder

897
00:26:23,140 --> 00:26:23,940
on,

898
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,099
if any of the, you know,

899
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,200
things break,

900
00:26:26,579 --> 00:26:28,500
you're kind of in a bad spot.

901
00:26:29,339 --> 00:26:30,980
And so that's sort of like why

902
00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:31,819
we really started,

903
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,039
you know,

904
00:26:33,109 --> 00:26:34,710
thinking about what we could do

905
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:36,970
next in terms of moving into non

906
00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:38,069
-till. And I will say,

907
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:42,049
keeping the ground covered is

908
00:26:42,049 --> 00:26:44,269
profound in terms of what it

909
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:46,690
does for grapes in terms of

910
00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:47,970
weathering heat events.

911
00:26:48,309 --> 00:26:51,650
So back in 2022, we had six

912
00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:53,349
days where it went to over 112

913
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:56,940
degrees in a row, and our

914
00:26:56,940 --> 00:26:58,339
neighboring vineyards that were

915
00:26:58,339 --> 00:26:59,839
fully tilled.

916
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,640
The heat that was coming off the

917
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,700
reflected heat was like 160 to

918
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:05,480
170 degrees. And that's

919
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,079
reflecting back onto the fruit.

920
00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:09,380
And in that situation, the fruit

921
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:10,660
begins to degrade its

922
00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:12,160
anthocyanin and its color, which

923
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,680
is really critical to the

924
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:14,759
quality of red wine.

925
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,640
Well, as our vineyards have been

926
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,920
roller crimped and had a nice

927
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,920
thick thatch on them,

928
00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:20,960
you know, they were still like

929
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,519
in the low nineties, high

930
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:23,680
eighties. So you also figure

931
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:24,720
that the underground soil

932
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,519
biology is also able to stay

933
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,500
alive. So that's just like one

934
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:29,299
really.

935
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:31,470
profound change that we've just

936
00:27:31,470 --> 00:27:32,750
seen just by simply like

937
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:34,170
starting to keep the soil

938
00:27:34,170 --> 00:27:34,970
covered.

939
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:37,619
That reflected heat, those

940
00:27:37,619 --> 00:27:39,339
reflected heat numbers that you

941
00:27:39,339 --> 00:27:40,559
gave me, there was a much bigger

942
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:41,680
delta than I expected.

943
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:44,400
Yeah, no, I mean, the first time

944
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,519
like I was out there, I took my

945
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:47,220
like pizza thermometer and just

946
00:27:47,220 --> 00:27:48,019
was like, you know,

947
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:49,839
for the oven was pointing it at

948
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:50,639
the ground.

949
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,500
And I was like, this cannot be

950
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:52,299
correct.

951
00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:53,640
And so then took another couple

952
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,440
implements.

953
00:27:54,619 --> 00:27:55,819
But yeah, it was like, you know,

954
00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:58,019
a 50 to 60 degree delta between

955
00:27:58,019 --> 00:27:58,819
the two.

956
00:28:00,130 --> 00:28:00,930
Wow.

957
00:28:02,369 --> 00:28:03,829
And I can only imagine, well,

958
00:28:03,970 --> 00:28:05,390
obviously it means a lot of

959
00:28:05,390 --> 00:28:07,670
things for for the

960
00:28:08,369 --> 00:28:09,710
anthocyanins and wine quality,

961
00:28:09,789 --> 00:28:10,750
but also you just think about

962
00:28:10,750 --> 00:28:11,650
the fundamentals of

963
00:28:11,650 --> 00:28:12,450
photosynthesis.

964
00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:14,509
Yes. And the water stress,

965
00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:15,769
all that stuff.

966
00:28:16,170 --> 00:28:17,829
I would also say that.

967
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:20,240
We started cover cropping and

968
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,799
crimping on an experimental

969
00:28:21,799 --> 00:28:24,759
basis back in 2015 and 16.

970
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:26,700
I think,

971
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,180
and I think that that's a really

972
00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:29,039
important thing.

973
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,140
I think what we did learn,

974
00:28:30,220 --> 00:28:32,259
though, is that if you move

975
00:28:32,259 --> 00:28:33,640
right into that and you don't

976
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,940
take into account vine nutrition

977
00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:38,220
levels, you really can stub your

978
00:28:38,220 --> 00:28:40,240
toe on yield lag, on creating

979
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,380
excessive, a lot of competition

980
00:28:42,380 --> 00:28:43,680
for vines, and you can kind of

981
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,680
see a drop off there.

982
00:28:45,099 --> 00:28:45,899
So,

983
00:28:45,579 --> 00:28:47,099
from what we learned is that we

984
00:28:47,099 --> 00:28:48,859
almost have to think about the

985
00:28:48,859 --> 00:28:50,000
vine nutrient status.

986
00:28:50,019 --> 00:28:51,319
as sort of one trajectory.

987
00:28:52,329 --> 00:28:53,869
rebuilding the soil as another

988
00:28:53,869 --> 00:28:55,109
trajectory, and then eventually

989
00:28:55,109 --> 00:28:56,789
those two kind of come together

990
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:59,309
as you sort of rebuild the

991
00:28:59,309 --> 00:29:00,970
biology in the system.

992
00:29:01,430 --> 00:29:02,970
And what we've also seen is once

993
00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:04,829
we started grazing on Haney

994
00:29:04,829 --> 00:29:07,430
tests within a year, we are

995
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:10,250
seeing 4x the amount of soil

996
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:11,049
biology.

997
00:29:11,329 --> 00:29:12,650
So like the grazing really

998
00:29:12,650 --> 00:29:14,109
almost like turbo charges

999
00:29:14,109 --> 00:29:14,909
everything.

1000
00:29:16,099 --> 00:29:17,619
All right. Hang on a second

1001
00:29:17,619 --> 00:29:19,000
here. Sorry, threw a lot at you

1002
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,619
there. No, this is good.

1003
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:22,299
But just the way you framed

1004
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,259
the conversation around matching

1005
00:29:25,259 --> 00:29:26,299
vine nutrition

1006
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,700
with the

1007
00:29:29,950 --> 00:29:31,230
cover crops so

1008
00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:33,369
that you don't have a yield loss

1009
00:29:33,369 --> 00:29:34,169
effect.

1010
00:29:34,309 --> 00:29:35,549
Let's go into that into a little

1011
00:29:35,549 --> 00:29:36,349
bit more detail.

1012
00:29:36,349 --> 00:29:38,309
And this is a topic that I find

1013
00:29:38,309 --> 00:29:39,569
so important because

1014
00:29:39,569 --> 00:29:41,970
there's

1015
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:44,519
come to be within certain groups

1016
00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:46,940
this expectation that as we go

1017
00:29:46,940 --> 00:29:47,900
through a transition, we should

1018
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:49,279
expect to see a yield loss.

1019
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:50,460
And

1020
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,339
I'm of the opinion

1021
00:29:51,869 --> 00:29:53,109
that if you have a yield loss,

1022
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:54,690
it's because of poor agronomy,

1023
00:29:54,769 --> 00:29:56,250
not because of a certain set of

1024
00:29:56,250 --> 00:29:57,390
practices that you may or may

1025
00:29:57,390 --> 00:29:58,190
not do.

1026
00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:00,920
So I'd like to better understand

1027
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:01,799
what you observed and

1028
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:02,599
experienced there.

1029
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:07,529
So when we first started roller

1030
00:30:07,529 --> 00:30:08,950
crimping, it wasn't every site,

1031
00:30:09,029 --> 00:30:11,230
but I'll stick to bedrock.

1032
00:30:11,369 --> 00:30:12,750
But when we first went,

1033
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,819
you know, one year we were doing

1034
00:30:14,819 --> 00:30:16,400
that compost system I described,

1035
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,630
the next we were doing a

1036
00:30:20,329 --> 00:30:21,309
full crimped

1037
00:30:22,049 --> 00:30:22,849
floor.

1038
00:30:23,049 --> 00:30:24,349
And this was before we were

1039
00:30:24,349 --> 00:30:25,829
looking at SAP, we were taking

1040
00:30:25,829 --> 00:30:27,250
dry tissue analysis, you know,

1041
00:30:27,309 --> 00:30:28,950
we were doing typical

1042
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,819
viticulture monitoring.

1043
00:30:32,579 --> 00:30:34,880
But we saw in those first two

1044
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,420
years of doing that, kind of

1045
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:37,220
what everybody

1046
00:30:37,369 --> 00:30:38,730
warned you about.

1047
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:40,650
And this is such a common

1048
00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:43,359
conversation in the viticulture

1049
00:30:43,359 --> 00:30:45,549
world right now about to non

1050
00:30:45,549 --> 00:30:46,970
-till and your loss of vigor.

1051
00:30:47,450 --> 00:30:48,990
And we definitely saw that, but

1052
00:30:48,990 --> 00:30:52,349
we were not looking at nitrogen

1053
00:30:52,349 --> 00:30:53,430
in the right way.

1054
00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:54,849
For instance, we weren't looking

1055
00:30:54,849 --> 00:30:55,649
at timing

1056
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:58,779
of nutrient applications to try

1057
00:30:58,779 --> 00:31:01,140
to compensate for what has

1058
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:02,970
changed in the system.

1059
00:31:03,130 --> 00:31:04,549
We were no longer getting this

1060
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:06,869
massive flush of green manure

1061
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,900
every time the vines were coming

1062
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:09,740
out of dormancy,

1063
00:31:10,059 --> 00:31:11,559
but we were not adequately

1064
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,519
accounting for that change.

1065
00:31:14,819 --> 00:31:16,700
So we saw pruning weights go

1066
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:17,619
down by half,

1067
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,720
yields go down by half, you

1068
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,180
know, like really extreme vigor

1069
00:31:23,180 --> 00:31:24,079
losses. So it

1070
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:26,049
took us kind of taking a step

1071
00:31:26,049 --> 00:31:26,849
back

1072
00:31:26,980 --> 00:31:29,059
and, of course, learning a lot

1073
00:31:29,059 --> 00:31:31,660
more to learn how to make those

1074
00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:33,380
transitions successfully without

1075
00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:34,660
seeing those. And now we're able

1076
00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:35,779
to do that.

1077
00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:38,500
But when you think about,

1078
00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:40,859
Morgan, the way that you framed

1079
00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,380
the discussion, I forget the

1080
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:44,039
exact phraseology that you used,

1081
00:31:44,099 --> 00:31:45,339
but something to the effect of

1082
00:31:45,579 --> 00:31:47,420
the trajectory of wine nutrition

1083
00:31:47,420 --> 00:31:49,900
versus the trajectory of soil

1084
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:50,700
nutrition status.

1085
00:31:50,819 --> 00:31:51,859
How are you thinking about that?

1086
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:54,440
So I think the

1087
00:31:55,069 --> 00:31:56,210
way that we think about it is

1088
00:31:56,210 --> 00:31:59,049
it's almost hard to overstate

1089
00:31:59,049 --> 00:31:59,849
how

1090
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:02,170
beat up soils and a lot of these

1091
00:32:02,170 --> 00:32:03,730
old vineyards are because they

1092
00:32:03,730 --> 00:32:04,869
literally have been

1093
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:08,970
discs into oblivion for a lot of

1094
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:11,190
times just to powder for 100

1095
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:12,049
plus years.

1096
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:14,190
So you're just starting from

1097
00:32:14,190 --> 00:32:15,329
like nothing.

1098
00:32:15,849 --> 00:32:16,930
So it really is like,

1099
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:19,789
so it really is quite a shock to

1100
00:32:19,789 --> 00:32:21,150
the system if all of a sudden

1101
00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:22,369
vines that have sort of been

1102
00:32:22,369 --> 00:32:24,289
kind of holding on in that

1103
00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:25,730
environment are all of a sudden

1104
00:32:25,730 --> 00:32:27,170
then finding themselves in

1105
00:32:27,170 --> 00:32:29,589
competition with other plants

1106
00:32:29,589 --> 00:32:30,410
that are around them.

1107
00:32:30,589 --> 00:32:32,609
So the way we think, sort of

1108
00:32:32,609 --> 00:32:34,250
thought about it is that sort of

1109
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:35,049
we think about

1110
00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:37,009
And this has really helped our

1111
00:32:37,009 --> 00:32:38,809
more recent transitions and

1112
00:32:38,809 --> 00:32:39,970
other places that we've done as

1113
00:32:39,970 --> 00:32:42,619
well. really think about the

1114
00:32:42,869 --> 00:32:45,109
vine health and the vine

1115
00:32:45,109 --> 00:32:46,109
nutrient status.

1116
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:48,130
And we, and this is an area

1117
00:32:48,130 --> 00:32:49,609
where like SAP analysis has been

1118
00:32:49,609 --> 00:32:51,150
really, really critical for us

1119
00:32:51,150 --> 00:32:53,269
to be able to see how nutrients

1120
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:54,430
are being translocated

1121
00:32:54,430 --> 00:32:55,769
throughout the plant, what we

1122
00:32:55,769 --> 00:32:57,190
might need to supplement via

1123
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:59,470
foliar or other means to make

1124
00:32:59,470 --> 00:33:00,309
sure that the vine

1125
00:33:00,849 --> 00:33:02,369
is not excessively freaked out

1126
00:33:02,369 --> 00:33:04,269
by all of its new companions in

1127
00:33:04,269 --> 00:33:05,069
the field.

1128
00:33:05,630 --> 00:33:07,589
And then as we gradually build

1129
00:33:07,589 --> 00:33:09,710
soil biology back up and we get

1130
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:11,009
to four or five percent soil

1131
00:33:11,009 --> 00:33:12,690
organic matter, we actually get

1132
00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:15,410
real nutrient cycling going on

1133
00:33:15,410 --> 00:33:17,069
in the soil and the biology has

1134
00:33:17,069 --> 00:33:17,869
been rebuilt,

1135
00:33:18,049 --> 00:33:19,269
then we can kind of like

1136
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:21,809
you know, step back a little bit

1137
00:33:21,809 --> 00:33:23,210
and kind of allow the system to

1138
00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:24,869
actually operate as it probably

1139
00:33:24,869 --> 00:33:26,130
operated when the vines were

1140
00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:27,430
first planted when there still

1141
00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:29,670
was four to six percent organic

1142
00:33:29,670 --> 00:33:31,329
matter in the soil before it had

1143
00:33:31,329 --> 00:33:33,710
been tilled to powder for a

1144
00:33:33,710 --> 00:33:34,509
century, you know.

1145
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:36,430
So, and then the, you know, the

1146
00:33:36,430 --> 00:33:37,789
compaction as well in certain

1147
00:33:37,789 --> 00:33:39,130
sites and all the stuff that

1148
00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:39,930
comes with that.

1149
00:33:40,910 --> 00:33:43,029
And so that's sort of like what

1150
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:43,970
we look at it now.

1151
00:33:44,009 --> 00:33:45,650
And then, you know, and What we

1152
00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:48,130
find so fascinating, too, and we

1153
00:33:48,130 --> 00:33:50,009
work with Green Cover Seed, who

1154
00:33:50,009 --> 00:33:51,130
I know he's been on the pod

1155
00:33:51,130 --> 00:33:53,150
before, but, you know, now

1156
00:33:53,150 --> 00:33:54,869
figuring out all the things

1157
00:33:54,869 --> 00:33:57,670
about quorum sensing and once

1158
00:33:57,670 --> 00:33:59,450
you build into those systems and

1159
00:33:59,450 --> 00:34:00,509
when we can now have,

1160
00:34:00,930 --> 00:34:02,109
I think our cover crops this

1161
00:34:02,109 --> 00:34:03,609
year are 22 different plant

1162
00:34:03,609 --> 00:34:05,009
species across eight different

1163
00:34:05,009 --> 00:34:07,829
families and trying to build as

1164
00:34:07,829 --> 00:34:09,789
much diversity during,

1165
00:34:10,090 --> 00:34:11,570
you know, the winter months.

1166
00:34:12,659 --> 00:34:13,460
it's,

1167
00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:14,679
you know, that part's just been

1168
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:15,480
fascinating.

1169
00:34:15,380 --> 00:34:16,199
And it's just been fascinating

1170
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:17,539
to see that the vines,

1171
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,840
now that they're sort of in a

1172
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,079
proper system,

1173
00:34:21,619 --> 00:34:24,260
how much longer they hold on to

1174
00:34:24,260 --> 00:34:25,119
their leaves for,

1175
00:34:25,420 --> 00:34:28,159
how much I think probably post

1176
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:29,860
-harvest carbohydrate uptake is

1177
00:34:29,860 --> 00:34:31,340
improved because the canopies

1178
00:34:31,340 --> 00:34:32,159
are still intact.

1179
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,860
Things like that, where there's

1180
00:34:34,860 --> 00:34:36,980
just things that we see in terms

1181
00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:39,039
of plant health that we just

1182
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:39,840
didn't see before.

1183
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:45,300
Practically, what is different

1184
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:47,179
today from what you first

1185
00:34:47,179 --> 00:34:48,739
started observing 10 years ago?

1186
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,159
What are you doing differently

1187
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:50,960
today

1188
00:34:51,059 --> 00:34:52,880
from what you were doing 10

1189
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:53,680
years ago?

1190
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,039
One of the first things we did,

1191
00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:58,119
even before we were looking at

1192
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:00,019
sap, it goes back to what I was

1193
00:35:00,019 --> 00:35:00,820
saying about

1194
00:35:01,219 --> 00:35:03,179
just considering what has

1195
00:35:03,179 --> 00:35:04,400
changed in the system.

1196
00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:06,239
So one thing we started doing

1197
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,530
was supplying

1198
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:11,239
nitrogen, in this case at

1199
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,920
Bedrock, which is organic soy

1200
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,679
protein hydrolysate, supplying

1201
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:18,039
it much earlier than is typical

1202
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:19,639
and what had been typical for us

1203
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:20,980
to

1204
00:35:21,610 --> 00:35:23,289
give the plants what they

1205
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,240
partially

1206
00:35:24,389 --> 00:35:25,309
part of what they would have

1207
00:35:25,309 --> 00:35:26,409
been getting from that green

1208
00:35:26,409 --> 00:35:28,289
manure breaking down, which was

1209
00:35:28,289 --> 00:35:29,550
highly leguminous.

1210
00:35:30,750 --> 00:35:32,769
So one thing was just a little

1211
00:35:32,769 --> 00:35:34,590
bit of water and nitrogen early,

1212
00:35:35,070 --> 00:35:36,510
because what we were seeing was

1213
00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:37,369
just shoot growth

1214
00:35:37,769 --> 00:35:40,070
starting and stopping much, much

1215
00:35:40,070 --> 00:35:41,070
earlier. So just

1216
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:43,690
greasing the gears a little bit

1217
00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:44,949
at the beginning in that way.

1218
00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:47,090
And that was kind of the first

1219
00:35:47,090 --> 00:35:48,329
breakthrough.

1220
00:35:49,610 --> 00:35:51,130
And since then, it's been

1221
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:52,329
following nutrition with the

1222
00:35:52,329 --> 00:35:53,130
whole season.

1223
00:35:53,090 --> 00:35:53,890
So in grapes,

1224
00:35:54,269 --> 00:35:56,389
we spray for powdery mildew in

1225
00:35:56,389 --> 00:35:58,570
an organic system every two to

1226
00:35:58,570 --> 00:36:00,289
three weeks with wettable

1227
00:36:00,289 --> 00:36:01,090
sulfur.

1228
00:36:00,889 --> 00:36:02,090
Wettable sulfur is really the

1229
00:36:02,090 --> 00:36:04,170
only thing we use for mildew.

1230
00:36:04,889 --> 00:36:05,690
And

1231
00:36:06,380 --> 00:36:07,180
that

1232
00:36:06,929 --> 00:36:08,170
isn't ideal,

1233
00:36:08,510 --> 00:36:10,269
but what it does allow is it

1234
00:36:10,269 --> 00:36:11,710
means we're set up to spray

1235
00:36:11,710 --> 00:36:13,130
quite consistently.

1236
00:36:13,849 --> 00:36:15,429
So fitting these

1237
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:16,640
other

1238
00:36:16,969 --> 00:36:18,530
Basically, making our tank mixes

1239
00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:21,829
more useful than just sulfur is

1240
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:24,230
such an easy addition to the

1241
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:27,150
program that it has fit right in

1242
00:36:27,150 --> 00:36:28,150
so we're able to

1243
00:36:28,750 --> 00:36:30,710
evaluate SAP. and spray,

1244
00:36:30,829 --> 00:36:32,570
evaluate spray, you know, six

1245
00:36:32,570 --> 00:36:34,610
times or more throughout the

1246
00:36:34,610 --> 00:36:35,410
season.

1247
00:36:35,869 --> 00:36:37,530
Oh my, do I ever have a magical

1248
00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:38,369
product for you?

1249
00:36:41,710 --> 00:36:42,510
Yeah,

1250
00:36:42,849 --> 00:36:43,650
I mean,

1251
00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:46,010
It is sort of one of the great

1252
00:36:46,010 --> 00:36:47,829
challenges of the wine industry

1253
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:49,710
is just sort of the omnipresence

1254
00:36:49,710 --> 00:36:51,409
of powdery mildew pressure.

1255
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:53,130
And honestly, certain grapes

1256
00:36:53,130 --> 00:36:54,789
that the market has kind of

1257
00:36:54,789 --> 00:36:56,110
selected that they like, like

1258
00:36:56,110 --> 00:36:58,670
Chardonnay, is extremely prone

1259
00:36:58,670 --> 00:37:00,030
to it. And then the areas where

1260
00:37:00,030 --> 00:37:00,830
they're considered to be

1261
00:37:00,789 --> 00:37:03,150
qualitatively good is where the

1262
00:37:03,150 --> 00:37:04,789
powdery mildew index is off the

1263
00:37:04,789 --> 00:37:05,590
charts.

1264
00:37:05,699 --> 00:37:06,559
all year round.

1265
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:07,820
And so then it sort of,

1266
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:09,500
so in some ways it's kind of

1267
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:10,300
silly.

1268
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,719
But, you know, what I will say

1269
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,360
is we've seen

1270
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,239
powdery mildew pressure go down

1271
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,679
as a result of these practices.

1272
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:21,679
It just seems like plant cell

1273
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:22,980
walls are healthier.

1274
00:37:23,739 --> 00:37:25,260
So the pressure has gone down.

1275
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,120
And I think

1276
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,639
My greatest hope is at some

1277
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:28,980
point we get to a point where

1278
00:37:28,980 --> 00:37:30,960
the plants are healthy enough

1279
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,199
that we really don't even have

1280
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:33,320
to think about it.

1281
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:34,519
There's a couple vineyards I

1282
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:35,619
know that have been able to do

1283
00:37:35,619 --> 00:37:36,420
that.

1284
00:37:37,099 --> 00:37:38,780
But then also really the

1285
00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:40,380
resistance to insect pressure

1286
00:37:40,380 --> 00:37:41,180
has been,

1287
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:42,780
you know, in Zinfandel, which

1288
00:37:42,780 --> 00:37:44,559
can be very prone to Pacific and

1289
00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:45,659
Willamette spider mites,

1290
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,280
we no longer have spider mites.

1291
00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:50,500
We have incredibly diverse

1292
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:52,099
insect populations that keep

1293
00:37:52,099 --> 00:37:53,079
each other in balance.

1294
00:37:53,610 --> 00:37:55,170
Uh, knock on wood at bedrock, we

1295
00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:56,250
still have not dealt with vine

1296
00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:57,530
mealy bug, which has been a real

1297
00:37:57,530 --> 00:37:59,570
issue, um, in some parts of

1298
00:37:59,570 --> 00:38:00,370
California.

1299
00:38:00,869 --> 00:38:02,409
Um, and so it's just, and then

1300
00:38:02,409 --> 00:38:04,190
leaf hoppers and out in Contra

1301
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:06,670
Costa County, which were a real

1302
00:38:06,670 --> 00:38:07,470
issue.

1303
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:08,310
Um,

1304
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:10,230
it starting this year, when we

1305
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:11,349
started actually spraying a

1306
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:12,630
couple of products, we

1307
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:13,430
literally,

1308
00:38:13,389 --> 00:38:15,550
they went away like the

1309
00:38:15,550 --> 00:38:16,610
neighboring vineyards had them.

1310
00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:18,269
But we, we didn't.

1311
00:38:18,329 --> 00:38:19,349
And that was, you know,

1312
00:38:19,969 --> 00:38:21,130
I mean that that stuff's all

1313
00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:22,929
very, very interesting to see,

1314
00:38:22,989 --> 00:38:24,949
but also allows us to kind of

1315
00:38:24,949 --> 00:38:26,840
model. plant health in many

1316
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:27,980
ways. Cause if we're seeing

1317
00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:29,460
susceptibility to the virus, I

1318
00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:30,260
mean,

1319
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,320
I think you've talked about it a

1320
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:32,579
lot where, you know,

1321
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,940
pests attack weak plants.

1322
00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:36,440
So if the plants are stronger,

1323
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:38,059
you know, you're going to have

1324
00:38:38,059 --> 00:38:38,860
less pest pressure.

1325
00:38:40,340 --> 00:38:42,340
Have you, I'm quite curious on,

1326
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,920
on many plans, particularly on

1327
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,960
annuals, once we start working

1328
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,360
with,

1329
00:38:49,619 --> 00:38:51,199
nutritional support and

1330
00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:52,260
microbiome support.

1331
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:55,199
Often there are changes in

1332
00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:56,360
epigenetic expression.

1333
00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:57,880
You start seeing changes in leaf

1334
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,440
expression or node expression.

1335
00:38:59,579 --> 00:39:01,380
There's all types of subtle

1336
00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:02,619
changes. Sometimes they're much

1337
00:39:02,619 --> 00:39:03,679
more obvious than others.

1338
00:39:05,710 --> 00:39:07,679
Have you observed any of that

1339
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:09,460
changed expression on these

1340
00:39:09,460 --> 00:39:10,260
older varieties?

1341
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,380
I'm curious how these long

1342
00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:12,599
-lived perennial plants might

1343
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:14,079
respond differently than as

1344
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:15,119
compared to a short

1345
00:39:15,590 --> 00:39:17,369
-lived annual plant.

1346
00:39:18,489 --> 00:39:19,929
You know, in this case, we've

1347
00:39:19,929 --> 00:39:22,989
been really tracking sap and

1348
00:39:22,989 --> 00:39:24,690
applying for about two full

1349
00:39:24,690 --> 00:39:25,510
seasons now.

1350
00:39:26,130 --> 00:39:28,650
And the main change I've seen is

1351
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:32,190
mid -season canopy color without

1352
00:39:32,190 --> 00:39:32,990
any

1353
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,659
extra nitrogen.

1354
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:38,300
So the color of the canopy has

1355
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:39,699
been a major one.

1356
00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:40,960
Things like leaf size,

1357
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,840
node length, I haven't seen as

1358
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:44,640
much of.

1359
00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:47,369
But we are hoping, you know,

1360
00:39:47,449 --> 00:39:48,250
with

1361
00:39:48,690 --> 00:39:50,289
having now two full seasons of

1362
00:39:50,289 --> 00:39:51,090
the vines,

1363
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:52,869
having their nutritional needs

1364
00:39:52,869 --> 00:39:53,670
met,

1365
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:55,289
to see things like cluster

1366
00:39:55,289 --> 00:39:57,210
number change, hopefully

1367
00:39:57,210 --> 00:39:59,269
increase some of these things,

1368
00:39:59,630 --> 00:40:00,590
and even shorter

1369
00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:02,059
internode spacing.

1370
00:40:02,420 --> 00:40:03,820
We hope to see that.

1371
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:05,909
I would add, though, Jake, that

1372
00:40:05,909 --> 00:40:07,409
there are some points that we

1373
00:40:07,409 --> 00:40:08,389
were walking the vineyard this

1374
00:40:08,389 --> 00:40:09,449
year where we were almost

1375
00:40:09,449 --> 00:40:11,130
feeling like the leaves were

1376
00:40:11,130 --> 00:40:12,789
thicker and glossier.

1377
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:17,389
And it felt like there's more

1378
00:40:17,389 --> 00:40:18,469
substance there.

1379
00:40:18,570 --> 00:40:19,909
It's almost like the cell walls

1380
00:40:19,909 --> 00:40:20,710
were thicker.

1381
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:21,739
when you touch them.

1382
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,599
They sort of crumbled them.

1383
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,039
Yeah, they snapped a little bit

1384
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:25,840
more.

1385
00:40:26,739 --> 00:40:28,159
So, you know, that's just, and

1386
00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:29,139
you know, we had a very mild

1387
00:40:29,139 --> 00:40:30,340
growing season this year though,

1388
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,380
too, without a lot of heat

1389
00:40:31,380 --> 00:40:32,320
events and heat stress.

1390
00:40:32,619 --> 00:40:35,360
So again, need more,

1391
00:40:36,059 --> 00:40:37,920
need more data over more years,

1392
00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:40,219
but at the same time, I feel

1393
00:40:40,219 --> 00:40:41,420
like you're definitely seeing a

1394
00:40:41,420 --> 00:40:42,900
physical response within,

1395
00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:45,489
in some ways within the plants.

1396
00:40:47,110 --> 00:40:49,190
Yeah. And I can't wait for my

1397
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:50,849
quip about the powdery mildew

1398
00:40:50,849 --> 00:40:51,650
earlier.

1399
00:40:51,389 --> 00:40:53,769
I can't wait for things

1400
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:55,460
to get through the regulatory

1401
00:40:55,460 --> 00:40:56,719
channels of you to be able to

1402
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:57,920
use pinyon out there, because

1403
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,500
what we're observing with pinyon

1404
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:01,800
is you're going to be able to

1405
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:02,780
kiss your powdery mildew

1406
00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:03,580
challenges goodbye

1407
00:41:04,099 --> 00:41:06,159
simply as a reflection of

1408
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:07,579
changing the microbiome and the

1409
00:41:07,579 --> 00:41:10,260
plant's immune system response

1410
00:41:10,260 --> 00:41:12,179
so strongly. So I can't wait for

1411
00:41:12,179 --> 00:41:12,980
you to see that.

1412
00:41:13,139 --> 00:41:14,079
I mean, that would be an

1413
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:15,780
absolute game changer for the

1414
00:41:15,780 --> 00:41:16,580
wine industry.

1415
00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:17,460
I think there's something like

1416
00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:18,880
eighty five percent of

1417
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,340
pesticides applied to the grape

1418
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:21,659
industry are for powdery mildew.

1419
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,980
So whether that's organic,

1420
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,519
whether that's organics and

1421
00:41:26,519 --> 00:41:28,280
sulfur and solid oil and stuff

1422
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,159
like that, or whether it's

1423
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:30,079
conventional systemic.

1424
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,280
So it would be you know, that's

1425
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,539
that's a real a real potential

1426
00:41:34,539 --> 00:41:35,340
change.

1427
00:41:36,690 --> 00:41:38,929
So along with these changes in

1428
00:41:38,929 --> 00:41:40,570
canopy color and disease and

1429
00:41:40,570 --> 00:41:42,329
insect resistance, I think the

1430
00:41:42,329 --> 00:41:43,409
obvious question, particularly

1431
00:41:43,409 --> 00:41:45,489
for a wine grape grower, is have

1432
00:41:45,989 --> 00:41:47,269
there been any changes?

1433
00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:49,539
I have

1434
00:41:49,949 --> 00:41:51,409
two questions. How has the

1435
00:41:51,409 --> 00:41:54,650
quality and the terroir of your

1436
00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:57,150
wine changed over the last

1437
00:41:57,150 --> 00:41:59,150
decade plus, but also in the

1438
00:41:59,150 --> 00:41:59,950
last

1439
00:41:59,750 --> 00:42:00,769
couple of years, have more

1440
00:42:00,769 --> 00:42:01,710
accelerated changes?

1441
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:04,699
Yeah, I mean, I think the

1442
00:42:04,699 --> 00:42:06,800
quality has, I feel like,

1443
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,260
increased significantly in part

1444
00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:10,480
because we just weather heat

1445
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:11,280
events better.

1446
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,760
And I think that there's just

1447
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,260
more resilience and that, you

1448
00:42:15,260 --> 00:42:16,380
know, as we kind of talked about

1449
00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:17,599
earlier without like,

1450
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:19,340
you know, when we don't have as

1451
00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:20,699
much reflected heat in the

1452
00:42:20,699 --> 00:42:22,679
vineyards, the vines don't get

1453
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:23,880
as stressed out and they don't

1454
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,860
get as water stressed.

1455
00:42:26,820 --> 00:42:28,159
And the result is that we can

1456
00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:29,960
kind of slow down ripening and

1457
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,139
sugar accumulation for us.

1458
00:42:32,739 --> 00:42:33,739
You know, if we have a really

1459
00:42:33,739 --> 00:42:35,199
hot August, which is when the

1460
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:37,300
vine is really sugar loading for

1461
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:38,300
the most part, like,

1462
00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:40,679
you know, sometimes we see what

1463
00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:42,360
happens where we get, you know,

1464
00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:44,019
sugar in advance of flavor,

1465
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,219
because we're looking at other

1466
00:42:46,219 --> 00:42:48,300
physical factors like seed

1467
00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:49,100
browning,

1468
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:50,079
rachis thickness,

1469
00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:54,079
like all these other elements

1470
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:55,139
that we look at.

1471
00:42:56,099 --> 00:42:57,860
And what I've really seen over

1472
00:42:57,860 --> 00:42:59,280
the last eight to 10 years, and

1473
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,199
I think it's been

1474
00:43:00,929 --> 00:43:03,289
extra so the last couple of

1475
00:43:03,289 --> 00:43:04,789
years, is we're seeing

1476
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:07,269
physiological development and

1477
00:43:07,269 --> 00:43:09,010
incredible flavor development at

1478
00:43:09,010 --> 00:43:10,530
lower potential alcohols.

1479
00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:12,030
And the vines are also holding

1480
00:43:12,030 --> 00:43:13,429
on to their natural acidity

1481
00:43:13,429 --> 00:43:14,230
better.

1482
00:43:14,070 --> 00:43:15,449
So that makes for a better

1483
00:43:15,449 --> 00:43:16,250
fermentation.

1484
00:43:16,429 --> 00:43:19,289
And that also makes for higher

1485
00:43:19,289 --> 00:43:20,090
quality.

1486
00:43:20,210 --> 00:43:21,250
Because here in California, we

1487
00:43:21,250 --> 00:43:22,050
have a lot of sun.

1488
00:43:22,090 --> 00:43:23,170
We're kind of known for making

1489
00:43:23,659 --> 00:43:25,380
high -octane sort of more

1490
00:43:25,380 --> 00:43:26,340
alcoholic wines.

1491
00:43:26,519 --> 00:43:27,780
And so anything that we can do

1492
00:43:27,780 --> 00:43:29,239
in our vineyards to kind of

1493
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,920
combat that naturally is a

1494
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:32,720
really good thing.

1495
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:35,920
Can you translate that for a non

1496
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,059
-wine grape fermenter?

1497
00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:38,780
I'm not even quite clear on what

1498
00:43:38,780 --> 00:43:39,580
it is you're...

1499
00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:40,539
So when you talk about high

1500
00:43:40,539 --> 00:43:41,440
alcohol, what is that a

1501
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:42,280
reflection of from a

1502
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,460
biochemistry perspective and

1503
00:43:43,460 --> 00:43:45,219
what does that mean from a

1504
00:43:45,219 --> 00:43:46,019
quality?

1505
00:43:46,190 --> 00:43:49,030
Yeah, so really the alcohol

1506
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:50,929
percentage is sort of based on

1507
00:43:50,929 --> 00:43:52,949
how much sugar comes in with the

1508
00:43:52,949 --> 00:43:54,250
grape. And at some point you get

1509
00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:55,670
to a point where there's so much

1510
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:56,869
sugar that you will not be able

1511
00:43:56,869 --> 00:43:59,050
to ferment it dry.

1512
00:43:59,449 --> 00:44:00,670
And then in the winery, that's

1513
00:44:00,670 --> 00:44:01,650
when you do things like add

1514
00:44:01,650 --> 00:44:03,389
water or tartaric acid to

1515
00:44:03,389 --> 00:44:04,190
supplement,

1516
00:44:05,090 --> 00:44:06,469
which is something we try to

1517
00:44:06,469 --> 00:44:07,809
avoid because we feel like that

1518
00:44:07,809 --> 00:44:09,510
dilutes quality.

1519
00:44:10,070 --> 00:44:11,829
So really yeast kind of have a

1520
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:14,190
maximum fermentation capacity of

1521
00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:16,829
about 16 to 16 .5 % alcohol,

1522
00:44:17,210 --> 00:44:20,429
which is quite high by sort of

1523
00:44:20,429 --> 00:44:21,909
worldwide standards.

1524
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:23,849
I'd say on average red wine is

1525
00:44:23,849 --> 00:44:27,010
about 13 to 13 .5 % alcohol and

1526
00:44:27,010 --> 00:44:29,889
white is 12 to 13 %

1527
00:44:29,889 --> 00:44:30,690
alcohol.

1528
00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:33,320
But, you know, in California,

1529
00:44:33,539 --> 00:44:34,860
it's, you know, it's not

1530
00:44:34,860 --> 00:44:37,239
uncommon to see wines over 15 %

1531
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,579
alcohol. But what that does

1532
00:44:38,579 --> 00:44:41,119
oftentimes is if you don't have

1533
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,860
balance, it just makes the wine

1534
00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:46,019
taste fiery. It makes it taste

1535
00:44:46,019 --> 00:44:46,820
hot.

1536
00:44:46,579 --> 00:44:47,679
It makes it taste sort of

1537
00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:49,860
unpleasant. And so really one of

1538
00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:51,820
the key factors when making high

1539
00:44:51,820 --> 00:44:54,280
quality wine is finding balance

1540
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,260
between the acid profile,

1541
00:44:56,579 --> 00:44:57,820
the tannin and the structure,

1542
00:44:57,980 --> 00:44:59,199
which is all the polyphenolics

1543
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:02,639
and anthocyanins, and the

1544
00:45:02,639 --> 00:45:04,639
sort of feeling of fruit weight

1545
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:06,219
in the wine.

1546
00:45:07,159 --> 00:45:08,420
So, you know, for us,

1547
00:45:08,869 --> 00:45:10,010
We are always trying to make

1548
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:11,909
wines that have great balance

1549
00:45:11,909 --> 00:45:13,530
and great density, but aren't

1550
00:45:13,530 --> 00:45:15,110
particularly alcoholic.

1551
00:45:16,789 --> 00:45:17,949
I'm just going to open it up

1552
00:45:17,949 --> 00:45:18,769
more broadly.

1553
00:45:19,070 --> 00:45:21,030
What important topics

1554
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:22,519
or what important things have

1555
00:45:22,519 --> 00:45:24,340
you observed as your vineyards

1556
00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:25,539
have regenerated that we haven't

1557
00:45:25,539 --> 00:45:26,340
talked about yet?

1558
00:45:26,340 --> 00:45:27,140
What were some of the really

1559
00:45:27,099 --> 00:45:28,159
memorable moments for you?

1560
00:45:31,219 --> 00:45:32,820
I mean, I think maybe when we

1561
00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:34,340
started doing Haney tests, which

1562
00:45:34,340 --> 00:45:35,639
we've only started doing for the

1563
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:37,659
last couple of years, and seeing

1564
00:45:37,659 --> 00:45:39,719
the amount of biological

1565
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,519
improvement

1566
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:42,809
from grazing compared to blocks

1567
00:45:42,809 --> 00:45:44,210
that we did not graze, that was

1568
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:45,150
really eye -opening.

1569
00:45:46,010 --> 00:45:47,869
After just a couple years of

1570
00:45:47,869 --> 00:45:48,670
grazing,

1571
00:45:48,489 --> 00:45:51,349
biology was four times the level

1572
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:53,010
of areas of the vineyard that we

1573
00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:53,810
had not grazed.

1574
00:45:55,070 --> 00:45:57,710
That's based on CO2 burst.

1575
00:45:58,420 --> 00:45:59,860
CO2 respiration is what's

1576
00:45:59,860 --> 00:46:00,660
increasing.

1577
00:46:00,980 --> 00:46:02,460
Was that with identical cover

1578
00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:03,260
crop management?

1579
00:46:04,070 --> 00:46:04,870
Yes.

1580
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:05,860
yeah, so this would have been

1581
00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:07,619
like a purely vegetative cover

1582
00:46:07,619 --> 00:46:09,619
cropping crimping and then the

1583
00:46:09,619 --> 00:46:11,019
same thing but with high

1584
00:46:11,019 --> 00:46:11,900
-intensity grazing.

1585
00:46:12,739 --> 00:46:14,139
And actually the vineyard that

1586
00:46:14,139 --> 00:46:16,949
had less respiration had been

1587
00:46:16,949 --> 00:46:18,949
under crimping for longer, but

1588
00:46:19,260 --> 00:46:21,000
the introduction of sheep

1589
00:46:21,409 --> 00:46:23,710
really seemed to push

1590
00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:25,170
respiration and that was across

1591
00:46:25,170 --> 00:46:26,750
a few different block examples.

1592
00:46:28,699 --> 00:46:30,719
Yeah, and I think playing on

1593
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:31,820
that, what's been really

1594
00:46:31,820 --> 00:46:33,219
surprising, too, is it's given

1595
00:46:33,219 --> 00:46:35,900
us confidence to rethink how we

1596
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:38,480
develop young vineyards, in that

1597
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,639
we now have blocks that we're

1598
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:43,360
just planting that we are

1599
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,860
putting immediately into organic

1600
00:46:45,860 --> 00:46:46,660
non -till,

1601
00:46:46,820 --> 00:46:48,139
which is pretty,

1602
00:46:49,579 --> 00:46:51,340
sort of contradicts what the

1603
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:53,500
very standard treatment is in

1604
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:54,500
the industry, where typically

1605
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:56,320
it's like you plant young vines

1606
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,219
and you try to, via tillage and

1607
00:46:58,219 --> 00:46:59,880
herbicide, eliminate all

1608
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:00,680
competition.

1609
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,199
And we've kind of gone the

1610
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:04,300
opposite direction, and it's

1611
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:05,900
been really fascinating to see

1612
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:07,780
how verdant and healthy the

1613
00:47:07,780 --> 00:47:10,539
canopies have been, and also how

1614
00:47:10,539 --> 00:47:11,800
good the quality has been, and

1615
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,219
also the fact that it's quite

1616
00:47:13,219 --> 00:47:14,019
economic.

1617
00:47:14,739 --> 00:47:16,840
We're now just sort of moving

1618
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,840
into full cropping, and we're

1619
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,800
going to be getting four to four

1620
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:21,980
and a half tons per acre on

1621
00:47:21,980 --> 00:47:23,239
these blocks, which for us is

1622
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:24,079
quite good.

1623
00:47:24,980 --> 00:47:25,780
And at what age?

1624
00:47:27,420 --> 00:47:29,559
So that would be on fifth and

1625
00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:30,360
sixth leaf.

1626
00:47:31,869 --> 00:47:33,010
And are you seeing those vines

1627
00:47:33,010 --> 00:47:34,170
come into production earlier

1628
00:47:34,170 --> 00:47:34,970
than they would have

1629
00:47:34,789 --> 00:47:35,989
historically or is still a

1630
00:47:35,989 --> 00:47:36,789
similar timeline?

1631
00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:40,619
A similar timeline to what would

1632
00:47:40,619 --> 00:47:41,760
be a standard program.

1633
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:43,560
We also

1634
00:47:43,530 --> 00:47:46,289
have the goal of those blocks to

1635
00:47:46,289 --> 00:47:48,869
convert them to dry farming

1636
00:47:48,869 --> 00:47:50,570
eventually, because that's, I

1637
00:47:50,570 --> 00:47:51,690
think, one of the factors in

1638
00:47:51,690 --> 00:47:52,929
California we really need to

1639
00:47:52,929 --> 00:47:54,610
think about when we kind of

1640
00:47:54,610 --> 00:47:55,590
think about the core of

1641
00:47:55,590 --> 00:47:56,390
sustainability.

1642
00:47:56,050 --> 00:47:57,510
You have to think about which

1643
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:58,949
resources are the most scarce

1644
00:47:58,949 --> 00:48:02,119
and water is scarce in

1645
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:03,380
California at times.

1646
00:48:04,179 --> 00:48:07,519
So I think what we're so excited

1647
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:09,159
about is we basically we dropped

1648
00:48:09,159 --> 00:48:10,840
fruit from one additional year

1649
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,260
to really push root growth.

1650
00:48:13,179 --> 00:48:14,739
But I think we're going to be

1651
00:48:14,739 --> 00:48:16,500
able to because we built soil

1652
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:17,880
organic matter and we built

1653
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,840
biology, I think it's going to

1654
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,739
expedite the process of us being

1655
00:48:21,739 --> 00:48:23,699
able to wean those vines off of

1656
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:25,599
water and still have them have

1657
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:27,820
very happy and productive lives.

1658
00:48:29,139 --> 00:48:31,360
And that's a very exciting thing

1659
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,940
for us to see because it's

1660
00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:35,679
almost allows us to do it all at

1661
00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:37,440
once rather than develop the

1662
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,159
vineyard and then undo all the

1663
00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:41,219
effects of the tillage via cover

1664
00:48:41,219 --> 00:48:42,340
crops and crimping.

1665
00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:43,500
And then so it like sort of

1666
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:44,699
shortens the timeline by

1667
00:48:44,699 --> 00:48:46,500
probably up to five years.

1668
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:48,760
Wow.

1669
00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:52,119
Another interesting thing that

1670
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:53,199
we didn't mention, I think, on

1671
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:55,780
young vines is we're, just from

1672
00:48:55,780 --> 00:48:57,820
a heterogeneity standpoint,

1673
00:48:58,260 --> 00:49:00,019
is we're actually taking a

1674
00:49:00,260 --> 00:49:01,679
lesson from the old vines, which

1675
00:49:01,679 --> 00:49:02,619
I don't even know if Morgan

1676
00:49:02,619 --> 00:49:04,360
mentioned, but all of those old

1677
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,320
vine vineyards that are so

1678
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,980
genetically diverse are actually

1679
00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:07,920
field blended.

1680
00:49:09,489 --> 00:49:11,010
all of those different varieties

1681
00:49:11,010 --> 00:49:12,250
that Morgan was pointing out,

1682
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:14,030
they're often in the same block.

1683
00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:16,110
So we have blocks we call

1684
00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:16,910
Zinfandel,

1685
00:49:17,230 --> 00:49:19,630
but are actually 28, 29

1686
00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:21,329
different varieties all mixed

1687
00:49:21,329 --> 00:49:22,130
together.

1688
00:49:22,130 --> 00:49:23,829
And we pick that all at once.

1689
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:25,349
We ferment it all at once.

1690
00:49:25,969 --> 00:49:28,869
And that's very, very much not

1691
00:49:28,869 --> 00:49:30,250
the norm in the wine industry,

1692
00:49:30,250 --> 00:49:32,630
but it was the norm in the 1880s

1693
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:34,750
and 1890s.

1694
00:49:34,809 --> 00:49:35,610
So

1695
00:49:37,289 --> 00:49:39,550
We are actually planting young

1696
00:49:39,550 --> 00:49:41,469
vineyards as mixed variety as

1697
00:49:41,469 --> 00:49:42,269
well.

1698
00:49:42,650 --> 00:49:43,469
Some of those are the

1699
00:49:43,469 --> 00:49:44,889
traditional California field

1700
00:49:44,889 --> 00:49:46,530
blends of Zinfandel, Carignan,

1701
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:47,670
Morved, Alicante,

1702
00:49:48,429 --> 00:49:50,599
and then others are, we're

1703
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:52,920
taking some of Portugal's

1704
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,300
traditional field blends, just

1705
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:55,380
looking at another variety.

1706
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,900
arid region and planting mixed

1707
00:49:57,900 --> 00:49:59,260
Portuguese varieties all

1708
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:00,060
together.

1709
00:50:00,980 --> 00:50:02,000
And that's

1710
00:50:03,269 --> 00:50:05,769
just looking at the benefits of

1711
00:50:05,769 --> 00:50:07,909
diversity, even just at the

1712
00:50:07,909 --> 00:50:09,449
variety level.

1713
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:12,070
What does that look like from a

1714
00:50:12,070 --> 00:50:13,730
management perspective?

1715
00:50:14,650 --> 00:50:16,170
Is there the need to

1716
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,800
prune varieties differently or

1717
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,059
manage varieties differently in

1718
00:50:20,059 --> 00:50:21,059
any way within the field?

1719
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:22,420
Are you managing them largely

1720
00:50:22,420 --> 00:50:24,519
homogeneously across varieties?

1721
00:50:25,420 --> 00:50:26,860
So there's an element of that,

1722
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,800
and so for instance, I'll take

1723
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,059
the example of Carignan,

1724
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:32,619
which is in a lot of old

1725
00:50:32,619 --> 00:50:33,679
vineyards, and it's a

1726
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,239
beautifully vigorous variety,

1727
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,599
very dry farmable, but it's

1728
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:41,559
hyper prone to powdery mildew,

1729
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,059
and in some ways it's overly

1730
00:50:43,059 --> 00:50:45,599
vigorous. So a lot of our crews,

1731
00:50:45,699 --> 00:50:46,760
and we have the benefit of

1732
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:47,560
having

1733
00:50:48,849 --> 00:50:51,130
experienced crews at all of our

1734
00:50:51,130 --> 00:50:51,930
vineyards.

1735
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:53,430
And

1736
00:50:53,909 --> 00:50:55,909
they're able to go through and

1737
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:57,739
spot the carignon vines.

1738
00:50:58,019 --> 00:50:59,539
It doesn't take a lot of

1739
00:50:59,539 --> 00:51:00,900
knowledge to spot it once you

1740
00:51:00,900 --> 00:51:01,900
know what you're looking for.

1741
00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:03,480
And then when they're going

1742
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:04,420
through and shoot thinning,

1743
00:51:05,579 --> 00:51:07,579
they'll take the basal leaves

1744
00:51:07,579 --> 00:51:08,380
off the carignon.

1745
00:51:08,420 --> 00:51:09,699
They'll do extra opening up,

1746
00:51:09,739 --> 00:51:11,360
because we know in three weeks

1747
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,579
it's going to close back up

1748
00:51:12,579 --> 00:51:14,719
again because of the vigor.

1749
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:16,860
So there is an element of that.

1750
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:19,000
but and it's certainly not a

1751
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,380
management style for more anal

1752
00:51:21,380 --> 00:51:23,800
retentive farmers in some way.

1753
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,920
But in there are other ways that

1754
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,519
it makes things easier.

1755
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:29,940
And I think Morgan would agree

1756
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:33,030
that having that diverse

1757
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:35,329
varietal mix really smooths

1758
00:51:35,329 --> 00:51:36,489
vintage variation.

1759
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,300
So in a really hot year, for

1760
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:40,800
instance, Zinfandel can

1761
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,360
sometimes shrivel and get really

1762
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,159
resonated in under really hot

1763
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:45,960
conditions.

1764
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:47,980
Carinion will

1765
00:51:48,449 --> 00:51:50,210
weather any sort of hot weather.

1766
00:51:50,550 --> 00:51:51,650
It'll hold its acidity.

1767
00:51:51,730 --> 00:51:52,769
It'll hold its color.

1768
00:51:53,849 --> 00:51:56,050
Morved will never skyrocket in

1769
00:51:56,050 --> 00:51:57,369
sugar, for instance.

1770
00:51:57,929 --> 00:51:58,829
So in

1771
00:51:59,269 --> 00:52:00,550
hot years, some of these mixed

1772
00:52:00,550 --> 00:52:02,230
varieties will cover up some of

1773
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:03,489
the issues with the dominant

1774
00:52:03,489 --> 00:52:05,309
variety and vice versa.

1775
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:06,650
So you will get,

1776
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:08,860
we think, kind of a higher

1777
00:52:08,860 --> 00:52:10,980
baseline quality year in and

1778
00:52:10,980 --> 00:52:12,340
year out by having a more

1779
00:52:12,340 --> 00:52:13,140
diverse

1780
00:52:13,489 --> 00:52:14,630
field.

1781
00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:16,599
But when you have this vine

1782
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:17,800
diversity, are you...

1783
00:52:19,809 --> 00:52:22,690
Does this look like varieties

1784
00:52:22,690 --> 00:52:24,929
still planted together in rows

1785
00:52:24,929 --> 00:52:26,550
or just complete random

1786
00:52:26,550 --> 00:52:28,789
scattering of or somewhat

1787
00:52:28,789 --> 00:52:30,090
uniform distribution of a

1788
00:52:30,090 --> 00:52:31,369
variety across an entire field?

1789
00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:33,369
So Morgan wrote a whole thesis

1790
00:52:33,369 --> 00:52:36,050
about this, but in the old

1791
00:52:36,050 --> 00:52:37,650
vineyards it's a bit of a mix.

1792
00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:40,349
But there does seem to be, even

1793
00:52:40,349 --> 00:52:42,769
if it looks random, we actually

1794
00:52:42,769 --> 00:52:44,289
map all of our old vineyards

1795
00:52:44,289 --> 00:52:46,610
variety by variety and have them

1796
00:52:46,610 --> 00:52:47,630
all mapped out.

1797
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,940
And you will find

1798
00:52:51,539 --> 00:52:54,400
reason in the patterns once you

1799
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:55,599
map enough. Not at every

1800
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:56,599
vineyard, but at a lot.

1801
00:52:56,699 --> 00:52:57,760
You will see like, oh, they

1802
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,699
planted more carignon on the

1803
00:52:59,699 --> 00:53:01,840
edgier, lower fertility soils

1804
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,599
because they knew carignon was

1805
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:04,519
more vigorous.

1806
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,960
Or they'll plant more ved in the

1807
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,320
swales because it's a late

1808
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:09,120
budder.

1809
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,800
And so it will bud after frost

1810
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,800
risk is over. So there was

1811
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,559
definitely intention in the

1812
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:19,119
centennial vineyards.

1813
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:22,599
With our young vineyards, we

1814
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:24,300
will plant not down the row

1815
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:25,599
because you never want the

1816
00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:27,360
temptation to pick them

1817
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,160
separately,

1818
00:53:28,860 --> 00:53:31,239
but instead we'll plant maybe on

1819
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:32,820
the diagonal or have some sort

1820
00:53:32,820 --> 00:53:34,300
of pattern so we're kind of

1821
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:36,340
aware of what's in there.

1822
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,539
But even now we consider the

1823
00:53:38,539 --> 00:53:40,199
topography of the block when

1824
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:41,739
we're planting young vines.

1825
00:53:42,929 --> 00:53:44,150
What's really fascinating is

1826
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:44,989
like this practice

1827
00:53:47,380 --> 00:53:48,880
you know, the last 30 years of

1828
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,480
sort of modern winemaking in

1829
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,420
terms of wanting control and

1830
00:53:52,420 --> 00:53:54,119
then, you know, picking your

1831
00:53:54,119 --> 00:53:55,340
Cabernet separate from your

1832
00:53:55,340 --> 00:53:57,179
Merlot, from your Cab Franc, and

1833
00:53:57,179 --> 00:53:58,260
then blending those later.

1834
00:53:59,099 --> 00:53:59,980
But what's been really

1835
00:53:59,980 --> 00:54:01,960
fascinating is, and I love it

1836
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,119
when things like this happen,

1837
00:54:03,639 --> 00:54:05,039
is that there's now a lot of

1838
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:06,119
research that's been done

1839
00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:07,320
showing that when you actually

1840
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,539
co -ferment different varieties

1841
00:54:09,539 --> 00:54:10,980
that have different levels of

1842
00:54:10,980 --> 00:54:12,400
color, that have different types

1843
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,460
of phenolics, that have

1844
00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:14,880
different types of aromatics,

1845
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:16,360
they actually will

1846
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,219
polymerize with each other, they

1847
00:54:18,219 --> 00:54:19,420
will co -factor, they'll

1848
00:54:19,420 --> 00:54:20,800
stabilize aromatics.

1849
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,559
So you actually can create much

1850
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:24,820
greater complexity by having

1851
00:54:24,820 --> 00:54:26,500
more ingredients in the soup in

1852
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:28,099
some ways than if you're just

1853
00:54:28,099 --> 00:54:29,820
were to take those exact same

1854
00:54:29,820 --> 00:54:30,980
varieties and ferment them

1855
00:54:30,980 --> 00:54:32,219
separately and then blend them

1856
00:54:32,219 --> 00:54:33,019
later.

1857
00:54:33,099 --> 00:54:34,440
So that part to me is just

1858
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:35,559
always fascinating.

1859
00:54:36,659 --> 00:54:38,280
And so in some ways you kind of

1860
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,460
have to seed control as a

1861
00:54:41,460 --> 00:54:42,260
winemaker.

1862
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:43,900
And there's sort of like,

1863
00:54:44,329 --> 00:54:45,909
an element of almost picking on

1864
00:54:45,909 --> 00:54:47,389
gestalt, because not all the

1865
00:54:47,389 --> 00:54:48,250
varieties are going to be

1866
00:54:48,250 --> 00:54:49,829
perfectly ripe at the same time.

1867
00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:51,329
But you just kind of got to go

1868
00:54:51,329 --> 00:54:52,429
with be like, okay,

1869
00:54:52,849 --> 00:54:54,190
it looks good. And also, if you

1870
00:54:54,190 --> 00:54:55,210
really know your vineyard, you

1871
00:54:55,210 --> 00:54:56,750
also know when canopies start to

1872
00:54:56,750 --> 00:54:57,969
just look a little different

1873
00:54:57,969 --> 00:55:00,329
when leaves are turned ever so

1874
00:55:00,329 --> 00:55:01,469
slightly, and then you just be

1875
00:55:01,469 --> 00:55:03,150
like, okay, this vineyards done,

1876
00:55:03,250 --> 00:55:04,710
it's ready to for its fruit to

1877
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:05,570
come off and then you

1878
00:55:06,070 --> 00:55:07,389
you pick it. And then that

1879
00:55:07,389 --> 00:55:08,909
doesn't even get into the really

1880
00:55:08,909 --> 00:55:11,090
fascinating element of how

1881
00:55:11,090 --> 00:55:12,670
plants communicate under the

1882
00:55:12,670 --> 00:55:13,889
soil with each other.

1883
00:55:14,769 --> 00:55:16,510
And, you know, that's a complete

1884
00:55:16,510 --> 00:55:18,590
an area of almost no research,

1885
00:55:18,610 --> 00:55:20,269
but I think is very fascinating.

1886
00:55:21,230 --> 00:55:22,690
And that was one of one of the

1887
00:55:22,690 --> 00:55:23,829
several things that you just

1888
00:55:23,829 --> 00:55:24,889
said are quite interesting.

1889
00:55:25,090 --> 00:55:27,489
But that is that is one

1890
00:55:27,489 --> 00:55:29,190
domain that

1891
00:55:30,460 --> 00:55:32,219
in small grains production,

1892
00:55:32,340 --> 00:55:33,340
wheat production now.

1893
00:55:33,579 --> 00:55:34,920
This is happening in the UK,

1894
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:36,000
it's happening in Canada.

1895
00:55:36,119 --> 00:55:36,980
There's a number of growers here

1896
00:55:36,980 --> 00:55:39,860
in the US that I've been having

1897
00:55:39,860 --> 00:55:40,660
this

1898
00:55:40,039 --> 00:55:41,440
conversation with as well, where

1899
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:45,230
they will co -mingle and plant

1900
00:55:45,230 --> 00:55:46,849
five different wheat varieties

1901
00:55:46,849 --> 00:55:47,650
that

1902
00:55:47,769 --> 00:55:49,590
have similar harvest windows,

1903
00:55:50,610 --> 00:55:51,410
and

1904
00:55:51,579 --> 00:55:53,840
they get greater disease

1905
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,320
resistance, greater insect

1906
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,199
resistance, and higher yields

1907
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,420
than from any one of those

1908
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:00,300
varieties alone.

1909
00:56:01,590 --> 00:56:02,390
And it's just like,

1910
00:56:02,539 --> 00:56:04,679
how do we explain that?

1911
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,099
I mean, it's plant

1912
00:56:07,099 --> 00:56:08,539
communication, it's that quorum

1913
00:56:08,539 --> 00:56:10,099
sensing, it's that sharing of

1914
00:56:10,099 --> 00:56:11,380
resources and all these things

1915
00:56:11,380 --> 00:56:12,800
where these plants are truly

1916
00:56:13,110 --> 00:56:14,530
collaborating with each other

1917
00:56:14,530 --> 00:56:15,889
and perhaps

1918
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:18,210
sharing immune

1919
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,139
pathway secrets and other things

1920
00:56:21,139 --> 00:56:22,659
that we don't even know about

1921
00:56:22,659 --> 00:56:23,460
yet at this point.

1922
00:56:24,030 --> 00:56:25,269
They're sharing information with

1923
00:56:25,269 --> 00:56:26,070
each other.

1924
00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:27,050
Yeah,

1925
00:56:26,429 --> 00:56:27,849
it's the next frontier in

1926
00:56:27,849 --> 00:56:28,889
agriculture, I think.

1927
00:56:31,210 --> 00:56:32,610
I think

1928
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:33,760
we barely

1929
00:56:34,250 --> 00:56:36,010
know what we don't know about

1930
00:56:36,010 --> 00:56:38,010
what's going on under the soil

1931
00:56:38,010 --> 00:56:39,889
in many ways. And so like, it's

1932
00:56:39,889 --> 00:56:41,309
just, you know, it's very

1933
00:56:41,309 --> 00:56:42,110
exciting.

1934
00:56:43,449 --> 00:56:44,929
What do you see as the frontier?

1935
00:56:45,389 --> 00:56:46,809
What are the new things that

1936
00:56:46,809 --> 00:56:47,610
you're working on?

1937
00:56:47,690 --> 00:56:49,889
What are the ways that you want

1938
00:56:49,889 --> 00:56:52,090
to see your vineyard continue to

1939
00:56:52,090 --> 00:56:52,890
progress and grow?

1940
00:56:52,889 --> 00:56:54,050
What do you think you might be

1941
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:55,820
doing differently or

1942
00:56:55,820 --> 00:56:57,139
experiencing in the near future?

1943
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:00,300
It's a big question.

1944
00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:01,420
I mean, there's a, there's a

1945
00:57:01,420 --> 00:57:02,239
number of things.

1946
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,300
So, for us, I think, you know,

1947
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:07,420
right now we just graze with, we

1948
00:57:07,420 --> 00:57:08,659
do mob grazing with sheep,

1949
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,320
adapted paddock grazing, which

1950
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:11,120
is great.

1951
00:57:11,260 --> 00:57:13,059
But to me, I'd be really

1952
00:57:13,059 --> 00:57:14,599
interested. We have a neighbor

1953
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:15,400
who actually

1954
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:17,409
It's a smaller operation so they

1955
00:57:17,409 --> 00:57:18,650
can do it, but they literally

1956
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:19,450
will move,

1957
00:57:19,969 --> 00:57:21,190
you know, like, eight or nine

1958
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:23,230
different types of animals at a

1959
00:57:23,230 --> 00:57:24,250
time so when you're looking

1960
00:57:24,250 --> 00:57:25,650
about creating a greater

1961
00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:28,190
diversity of biology in your

1962
00:57:28,190 --> 00:57:29,949
grazing what that looks like and

1963
00:57:29,949 --> 00:57:30,750
then,

1964
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:31,849
you know, for me it'd be

1965
00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:33,269
fascinating if there's ways to

1966
00:57:33,269 --> 00:57:34,070
integrate.

1967
00:57:35,579 --> 00:57:37,179
revenue streams into the

1968
00:57:37,179 --> 00:57:39,079
vineyard sort of year round,

1969
00:57:39,380 --> 00:57:42,059
whether that's cattle or whether

1970
00:57:42,059 --> 00:57:44,920
it's sheep or something else in

1971
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,420
terms of just trying to figure

1972
00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:48,980
out a way to diversify that

1973
00:57:48,980 --> 00:57:50,800
element while also being of

1974
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,239
benefit to the land.

1975
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:55,340
I think that's a big part of it.

1976
00:57:56,929 --> 00:57:58,449
And to me, just broadly from an

1977
00:57:58,449 --> 00:57:59,389
industry standpoint,

1978
00:57:59,769 --> 00:58:01,630
I think it's really

1979
00:58:02,170 --> 00:58:04,210
important to talk about these

1980
00:58:04,210 --> 00:58:07,050
practices and to show what we

1981
00:58:07,050 --> 00:58:08,210
think we've gotten right and

1982
00:58:08,210 --> 00:58:09,590
what we've gotten wrong with

1983
00:58:09,590 --> 00:58:12,030
other people. Because just in

1984
00:58:12,030 --> 00:58:13,769
terms of selling wine and the

1985
00:58:13,769 --> 00:58:15,070
way that the wine industry

1986
00:58:15,070 --> 00:58:16,650
appears to people on the

1987
00:58:16,650 --> 00:58:17,450
outside,

1988
00:58:18,690 --> 00:58:19,490
you know,

1989
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:20,599
bottles of wine can sell for

1990
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,739
you know, $50, $100, $200, $500

1991
00:58:23,739 --> 00:58:25,260
a bottle. You know, there's

1992
00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:27,920
margin there. So in some ways, I

1993
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,039
feel like there's a

1994
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:30,420
responsibility within the wine

1995
00:58:30,420 --> 00:58:32,699
industry to try to be moving

1996
00:58:32,699 --> 00:58:34,699
forward the conversation about

1997
00:58:34,699 --> 00:58:38,139
responsible agriculture and

1998
00:58:38,139 --> 00:58:40,039
that element. And I feel like

1999
00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:43,440
there's more steam gaining as

2000
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,219
that is going on right now.

2001
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:46,780
And I think that, you know,

2002
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,860
that's, you know, I think that's

2003
00:58:48,860 --> 00:58:49,660
something I'm

2004
00:58:49,769 --> 00:58:51,389
That's both exciting and also

2005
00:58:51,389 --> 00:58:52,869
absolutely necessary,

2006
00:58:53,050 --> 00:58:54,730
particularly as we try to sell

2007
00:58:54,730 --> 00:58:56,889
to a whole new generation of

2008
00:58:56,889 --> 00:58:58,289
consumers that are coming up

2009
00:58:58,289 --> 00:58:59,590
that really care a lot more

2010
00:58:59,590 --> 00:59:01,730
about what they put into their

2011
00:59:01,730 --> 00:59:02,989
body. And the really cool thing

2012
00:59:02,989 --> 00:59:04,530
about wine is you can really get

2013
00:59:04,530 --> 00:59:06,809
all the way upstream of

2014
00:59:07,139 --> 00:59:08,900
what you put into your glass in

2015
00:59:08,900 --> 00:59:11,239
terms of who grew it, how it was

2016
00:59:11,239 --> 00:59:12,639
grown, the ethics of it,

2017
00:59:13,539 --> 00:59:15,380
the vine age, all of that stuff.

2018
00:59:15,860 --> 00:59:18,300
And so the complexity is scary,

2019
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:19,440
but at the same time, it's also

2020
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,090
what makes it so fascinating.

2021
00:59:22,289 --> 00:59:23,949
So it's kind of like integrating

2022
00:59:23,949 --> 00:59:26,630
the agricultural element into

2023
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:27,849
that conversation.

2024
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:30,420
I find so interesting about our

2025
00:59:30,420 --> 00:59:31,980
conversation. I came into this

2026
00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:33,320
conversation kind of like

2027
00:59:33,860 --> 00:59:35,840
I've heard some large numbers

2028
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,119
about how dramatically wine

2029
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:40,440
consumption is dropping and how

2030
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,800
there is this growing need for

2031
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,679
differentiation and how

2032
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:46,559
there is this intense interest

2033
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:48,219
in adopting region of

2034
00:59:48,219 --> 00:59:50,440
agriculture on scale because of

2035
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:51,320
the need to differentiate.

2036
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,840
But what stood out to me in our

2037
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,380
conversation is

2038
00:59:58,079 --> 00:59:59,800
the tremendous heat resilience

2039
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:00,980
and the climactic resilience

2040
01:00:00,980 --> 01:00:02,519
that you're experiencing with

2041
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:04,440
these different management

2042
01:00:04,590 --> 01:00:05,889
practices and

2043
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:08,480
how I think we should reasonably

2044
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:09,940
expect that to become the

2045
01:00:09,940 --> 01:00:11,260
foundational requirement into

2046
01:00:11,260 --> 01:00:12,060
the future.

2047
01:00:12,780 --> 01:00:14,380
Like we are going to need heat

2048
01:00:14,380 --> 01:00:16,000
resilience on a regular basis

2049
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,800
going forward. We already have

2050
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:20,269
a pattern, a recent pattern that

2051
01:00:20,269 --> 01:00:21,389
we can observe that that's going

2052
01:00:21,389 --> 01:00:22,190
to be the case.

2053
01:00:23,260 --> 01:00:24,060
Absolutely.

2054
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:24,920
And it really,

2055
01:00:26,519 --> 01:00:27,320
you know, there's something

2056
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:28,599
that, you know,

2057
01:00:29,940 --> 01:00:30,740
there's

2058
01:00:30,590 --> 01:00:31,889
As you sort of talked about the

2059
01:00:31,889 --> 01:00:32,690
beginning, there's incredible

2060
01:00:32,690 --> 01:00:34,269
opportunity to change people's

2061
01:00:34,269 --> 01:00:36,150
minds by showing them how these

2062
01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:38,230
practices work and that they do

2063
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:39,030
work.

2064
01:00:38,949 --> 01:00:40,570
But it is also very frustrating

2065
01:00:40,570 --> 01:00:43,949
when you drive down Highway 29

2066
01:00:43,949 --> 01:00:45,230
in Napa, which is surrounded by

2067
01:00:45,230 --> 01:00:46,530
some of the most expensive

2068
01:00:46,530 --> 01:00:48,489
vineyard land in the world and

2069
01:00:48,489 --> 01:00:49,289
everything,

2070
01:00:49,269 --> 01:00:50,409
there's not a single thing

2071
01:00:50,409 --> 01:00:51,849
growing on the floor of

2072
01:00:51,849 --> 01:00:52,650
vineyards.

2073
01:00:53,059 --> 01:00:54,340
Um, so there's, you know, a lot

2074
01:00:54,340 --> 01:00:56,699
of work to be done then, or sort

2075
01:00:56,699 --> 01:00:58,300
of like, and I think Evo from

2076
01:00:58,300 --> 01:00:59,719
Gerga Chills Chad talked about

2077
01:00:59,719 --> 01:01:01,320
it a bit, but also sort of like,

2078
01:01:01,940 --> 01:01:02,740
um,

2079
01:01:02,849 --> 01:01:04,130
sort of demonstrative grazing,

2080
01:01:04,269 --> 01:01:06,730
but without any real, um.

2081
01:01:07,449 --> 01:01:08,829
theory behind it so you just

2082
01:01:08,829 --> 01:01:10,110
sort of like put out a couple of

2083
01:01:10,110 --> 01:01:11,309
sheep and I mean,

2084
01:01:11,969 --> 01:01:13,530
most cynically I see vineyards

2085
01:01:13,530 --> 01:01:14,949
that you know have just sprayed

2086
01:01:14,949 --> 01:01:16,130
herbicide and then they have

2087
01:01:16,130 --> 01:01:17,909
sheep grazing that herbicide

2088
01:01:17,909 --> 01:01:20,909
sprayed soil and it's just like,

2089
01:01:21,170 --> 01:01:22,030
you know, but and then they

2090
01:01:22,030 --> 01:01:23,389
posted on Instagram and it's

2091
01:01:23,389 --> 01:01:24,190
like,

2092
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:25,240
as we

2093
01:01:24,949 --> 01:01:26,949
know, grazing can do incredible

2094
01:01:26,949 --> 01:01:28,250
damage, but it could also do

2095
01:01:28,250 --> 01:01:29,449
incredible good.

2096
01:01:29,610 --> 01:01:30,909
It just has to be deployed

2097
01:01:30,909 --> 01:01:33,190
properly. So also just educating

2098
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:34,869
people about that,

2099
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:37,150
that part of things as well.

2100
01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:38,590
So it's, you know, there's just

2101
01:01:38,590 --> 01:01:39,390
a lot there's

2102
01:01:39,659 --> 01:01:41,840
there's many lifetimes of work

2103
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:43,019
to be done to progress the

2104
01:01:43,019 --> 01:01:44,119
conversation, I think.

2105
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:47,280
Jake,

2106
01:01:48,340 --> 01:01:49,340
there's I

2107
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:51,300
have a feeling that I could have

2108
01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:53,440
a long conversation with you

2109
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:54,240
just

2110
01:01:54,429 --> 01:01:55,829
drawing all the things out that

2111
01:01:55,829 --> 01:01:57,050
you're holding in reserve here.

2112
01:01:57,789 --> 01:01:59,730
But I'm realizing at the very

2113
01:01:59,730 --> 01:02:01,030
beginning of our conversation,

2114
01:02:01,050 --> 01:02:02,489
you mentioned this idea of

2115
01:02:02,489 --> 01:02:03,929
building biology from the top

2116
01:02:03,929 --> 01:02:05,150
down with foliar applications,

2117
01:02:05,250 --> 01:02:06,570
and we never came back to that.

2118
01:02:07,030 --> 01:02:08,469
We touched on it a few times,

2119
01:02:08,469 --> 01:02:10,550
but we never dug into that in

2120
01:02:10,550 --> 01:02:11,350
detail.

2121
01:02:11,590 --> 01:02:12,390
So

2122
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:14,079
you can follow on to any of

2123
01:02:14,079 --> 01:02:15,099
Morgan's comments that you would

2124
01:02:15,099 --> 01:02:16,019
like to, but I'd also love for

2125
01:02:16,019 --> 01:02:16,880
you to dig into that a little

2126
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,039
bit of how you are dealing with

2127
01:02:18,039 --> 01:02:19,159
these dry land situations.

2128
01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:24,139
Right, so like I said, Evangelo

2129
01:02:24,139 --> 01:02:25,659
is our other. So we have bedrock

2130
01:02:26,099 --> 01:02:27,800
Vineyard in Sonoma, Evangelo in

2131
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:29,079
Contra Costa County, and those

2132
01:02:29,079 --> 01:02:31,320
are two pillars of estate

2133
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,019
vineyards, and they could not be

2134
01:02:33,019 --> 01:02:33,820
more different.

2135
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:35,900
So like I said, Evangelo has

2136
01:02:36,119 --> 01:02:36,980
almost no rain.

2137
01:02:37,219 --> 01:02:38,099
There's no water.

2138
01:02:38,780 --> 01:02:40,739
The only water we have is for is

2139
01:02:40,739 --> 01:02:42,860
for spraying with a solar well.

2140
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:45,150
So there

2141
01:02:46,099 --> 01:02:47,679
we've been.

2142
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:49,800
We just decided that we are

2143
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,480
going to go all in with tracking

2144
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,000
SAP consistently and and

2145
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,579
addressing things and just in

2146
01:02:55,579 --> 01:02:57,000
seeing where that takes us.

2147
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:00,260
because we do not have a lot of

2148
01:03:00,260 --> 01:03:03,300
avenues to improve

2149
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,599
soil like that with the

2150
01:03:06,599 --> 01:03:08,000
limitations of that system.

2151
01:03:09,559 --> 01:03:10,519
So it's

2152
01:03:11,309 --> 01:03:12,710
very interesting to see, I mean,

2153
01:03:12,809 --> 01:03:14,909
so we see all these increases in

2154
01:03:14,909 --> 01:03:16,550
canopy health and

2155
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,559
photosynthesis, even just in the

2156
01:03:18,559 --> 01:03:20,500
sugar levels on top of that.

2157
01:03:21,619 --> 01:03:24,000
And to know that then the vine

2158
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,440
has the excess energy to

2159
01:03:26,679 --> 01:03:30,000
be improving the microbiome

2160
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,019
around its roots,

2161
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,519
it's getting to a place that we

2162
01:03:33,519 --> 01:03:34,980
could not get with a tractor.

2163
01:03:36,829 --> 01:03:39,070
We're able to give the vines the

2164
01:03:39,070 --> 01:03:41,809
ability to essentially bespoke

2165
01:03:41,809 --> 01:03:43,730
their microbiome when they did

2166
01:03:43,730 --> 01:03:44,750
not have the energy

2167
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:46,920
that they had before.

2168
01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:48,500
And the same thing is true at

2169
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:50,260
Bedrock, where we are inputting

2170
01:03:50,699 --> 01:03:52,559
biology and improving, but the

2171
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:54,320
main thing that's happening is

2172
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,840
that the vines have

2173
01:03:57,380 --> 01:03:59,780
the energy and the tools to

2174
01:03:59,780 --> 01:04:01,219
foster

2175
01:04:01,849 --> 01:04:03,369
their own microbiome in a way

2176
01:04:03,369 --> 01:04:04,170
they haven't

2177
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:05,480
in the past.

2178
01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:07,960
What

2179
01:04:07,789 --> 01:04:09,309
indicators are you observing of

2180
01:04:09,309 --> 01:04:10,110
that?

2181
01:04:14,070 --> 01:04:15,130
That's a good question.

2182
01:04:17,090 --> 01:04:19,210
And I would love to know more

2183
01:04:19,210 --> 01:04:20,150
about what

2184
01:04:20,590 --> 01:04:21,949
indicators we could be looking

2185
01:04:21,949 --> 01:04:23,269
at, because it's not that easy

2186
01:04:23,269 --> 01:04:26,400
to mine your vine roots and dig

2187
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:27,460
them up and look.

2188
01:04:27,780 --> 01:04:29,480
We do know from our cover crops

2189
01:04:29,699 --> 01:04:31,980
in the soil that we are seeing

2190
01:04:31,980 --> 01:04:34,320
rhizosheathing and things that

2191
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,179
we have never seen before, and

2192
01:04:36,179 --> 01:04:36,980
that's from

2193
01:04:37,159 --> 01:04:39,639
more diverse mixes and then,

2194
01:04:40,159 --> 01:04:42,440
of course, better inoculants and

2195
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:43,240
a better

2196
01:04:43,659 --> 01:04:45,179
better seed coatings and all

2197
01:04:45,179 --> 01:04:45,980
these things.

2198
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,659
But I would say the biggest

2199
01:04:49,659 --> 01:04:52,300
indicator that we get is there's

2200
01:04:52,619 --> 01:04:54,559
plenty of evidence of natural

2201
01:04:54,559 --> 01:04:56,900
nutrient cycling of things

2202
01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:58,880
increasing in the vine that we

2203
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,280
did not add directly.

2204
01:05:02,639 --> 01:05:04,739
So that would

2205
01:05:05,179 --> 01:05:06,380
be one

2206
01:05:06,719 --> 01:05:07,639
of the biggest things I've seen.

2207
01:05:07,719 --> 01:05:09,099
And that's even more prevalent

2208
01:05:09,099 --> 01:05:10,559
at Evangelo, which is dry

2209
01:05:10,559 --> 01:05:11,360
farmed,

2210
01:05:11,460 --> 01:05:13,019
where we know all we're giving

2211
01:05:13,019 --> 01:05:14,440
is these foliars and we're

2212
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:15,240
seeing

2213
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,679
increases in things like

2214
01:05:16,679 --> 01:05:18,460
phosphorus and these things that

2215
01:05:18,460 --> 01:05:19,460
we are not applying.

2216
01:05:20,659 --> 01:05:21,460
So

2217
01:05:21,699 --> 01:05:22,940
we

2218
01:05:23,900 --> 01:05:25,059
imagine that that's part of

2219
01:05:25,059 --> 01:05:25,860
what's going on.

2220
01:05:26,909 --> 01:05:27,710
Yeah.

2221
01:05:28,679 --> 01:05:30,079
You know, the large

2222
01:05:30,869 --> 01:05:32,489
part of the thrill and the

2223
01:05:32,489 --> 01:05:34,170
beauty of working with these

2224
01:05:34,170 --> 01:05:35,969
biological ecosystems, we're now

2225
01:05:36,570 --> 01:05:39,070
in this particular moment in

2226
01:05:39,070 --> 01:05:40,210
time, well, it's been true for

2227
01:05:40,210 --> 01:05:41,289
the last half a dozen years,

2228
01:05:42,670 --> 01:05:44,889
Input costs are at an all -time

2229
01:05:44,889 --> 01:05:46,090
high relative to fertilizer

2230
01:05:46,090 --> 01:05:47,190
costs and so forth.

2231
01:05:47,730 --> 01:05:48,530
And

2232
01:05:48,530 --> 01:05:50,849
there's, it seems there are

2233
01:05:50,849 --> 01:05:51,949
constantly new people

2234
01:05:51,949 --> 01:05:52,750
discovering

2235
01:05:53,250 --> 01:05:56,090
the power of biology to release

2236
01:05:56,090 --> 01:05:57,150
the nutrients that are already

2237
01:05:57,150 --> 01:05:58,489
present in their soil profile.

2238
01:05:58,590 --> 01:05:59,390
And of course, if you're growing

2239
01:05:59,389 --> 01:06:00,590
wine grapes, you have the

2240
01:06:00,590 --> 01:06:01,949
capacity to go down to a depth

2241
01:06:01,949 --> 01:06:03,829
that's measured in feet or yards

2242
01:06:03,829 --> 01:06:04,630
or meters.

2243
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:07,289
And it

2244
01:06:09,269 --> 01:06:10,610
is so,

2245
01:06:11,269 --> 01:06:13,250
it's so much fun and so

2246
01:06:13,250 --> 01:06:14,989
enjoyable to see that whole

2247
01:06:14,989 --> 01:06:17,150
ecosystem just begin working and

2248
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:19,860
you start getting results that

2249
01:06:19,860 --> 01:06:21,139
are greater than any of those

2250
01:06:21,139 --> 01:06:22,579
that you would have imagined or

2251
01:06:22,579 --> 01:06:23,380
forecasted.

2252
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:25,460
And I think that's in this

2253
01:06:25,460 --> 01:06:26,500
particular environment that we

2254
01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:28,489
find ourselves in is that that

2255
01:06:28,489 --> 01:06:29,789
opportunity and

2256
01:06:30,099 --> 01:06:31,420
that optimism and that

2257
01:06:31,420 --> 01:06:32,699
conviction that this can happen

2258
01:06:32,699 --> 01:06:33,760
and does happen

2259
01:06:34,070 --> 01:06:37,070
is the encouragement and the

2260
01:06:37,070 --> 01:06:38,550
direction that many growers need

2261
01:06:38,550 --> 01:06:39,350
to go in.

2262
01:06:42,289 --> 01:06:43,190
Yeah, I agree completely.

2263
01:06:45,969 --> 01:06:47,090
I've already asked you what

2264
01:06:47,090 --> 01:06:48,530
important topics we should go

2265
01:06:48,530 --> 01:06:49,989
into and I really,

2266
01:06:50,809 --> 01:06:52,869
I feel the need that we need to

2267
01:06:52,869 --> 01:06:53,889
have another follow up

2268
01:06:53,889 --> 01:06:54,809
conversation because there's

2269
01:06:54,809 --> 01:06:55,829
other conversations, other

2270
01:06:55,829 --> 01:06:56,789
discussions I'd love to dive

2271
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:57,750
into. But I

2272
01:06:58,059 --> 01:06:59,139
want to be respectful of your

2273
01:06:59,139 --> 01:07:00,260
time and of our audience's time.

2274
01:07:00,340 --> 01:07:01,280
So I want to say thank you for

2275
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:02,080
being here.

2276
01:07:02,139 --> 01:07:02,960
Thank you for the work that

2277
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:03,860
you're doing. Thank you for

2278
01:07:03,860 --> 01:07:04,739
sharing your wisdom and your

2279
01:07:04,739 --> 01:07:05,539
experiences.

2280
01:07:06,199 --> 01:07:08,820
And where can people find out

2281
01:07:08,820 --> 01:07:10,119
more about your work?

2282
01:07:10,269 --> 01:07:11,070
dig in deeper?

2283
01:07:12,429 --> 01:07:13,230
Yeah. So

2284
01:07:14,099 --> 01:07:16,820
if anything, I have a writing

2285
01:07:16,820 --> 01:07:18,900
problem. So if you go to our

2286
01:07:18,900 --> 01:07:20,480
website, which is bedrockwineco

2287
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,739
.com, there's a lot of material

2288
01:07:22,739 --> 01:07:24,980
there ranging from the wines

2289
01:07:24,980 --> 01:07:26,340
that we make to the history of

2290
01:07:26,340 --> 01:07:28,099
wine in California to our

2291
01:07:28,099 --> 01:07:28,900
farming.

2292
01:07:29,219 --> 01:07:31,000
There's some really great quotes

2293
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,800
from Jake on there as well, that

2294
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,760
I think really cut to the core

2295
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:35,719
of what we're, what we're

2296
01:07:35,719 --> 01:07:36,519
looking at.

2297
01:07:36,940 --> 01:07:38,440
We also have our own podcast

2298
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:39,599
called Bedrock Wine

2299
01:07:39,599 --> 01:07:40,460
Conversations.

2300
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:41,560
And,

2301
01:07:41,159 --> 01:07:43,460
you know, we just got, you know,

2302
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:44,920
Regenerative Organics certified.

2303
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:45,720
And

2304
01:07:45,260 --> 01:07:46,820
so we did a whole pod on like

2305
01:07:46,820 --> 01:07:49,000
what that process looked like

2306
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:50,400
and what that entailed, because

2307
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:51,460
there's definitely some,

2308
01:07:51,860 --> 01:07:53,199
you know, hoops to jump through

2309
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:54,159
and things like that.

2310
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,000
And we also have other people on

2311
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,260
that we consider to be very very

2312
01:07:59,260 --> 01:08:01,900
important in terms of leading

2313
01:08:01,900 --> 01:08:03,400
the conversations around

2314
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,760
regenerative viticulture within

2315
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:07,519
the wine industry, specifically

2316
01:08:07,519 --> 01:08:09,300
people like Jason Jardine at

2317
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:11,320
Hansel and folks like that.

2318
01:08:11,739 --> 01:08:13,539
So yeah, so you can find us

2319
01:08:13,539 --> 01:08:15,019
there. And then, you know, I'm

2320
01:08:15,019 --> 01:08:17,199
still on social media somehow.

2321
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:19,100
So you can find me on Instagram

2322
01:08:19,100 --> 01:08:19,900
as well. And

2323
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:21,939
I'm usually just talking about

2324
01:08:21,939 --> 01:08:23,199
geeky things about grapes.

2325
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:24,360
So

2326
01:08:23,659 --> 01:08:25,399
yeah. And

2327
01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:27,819
Jake is on Instagram as well.

2328
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:28,800
And

2329
01:08:28,579 --> 01:08:29,840
And you can always email us.

2330
01:08:31,100 --> 01:08:31,979
All right. Well, thank you both.

2331
01:08:32,119 --> 01:08:32,920
Thanks for being here.

2332
01:08:32,859 --> 01:08:33,659
Thanks for your work.

2333
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:34,779
And let's catch up soon.

2334
01:08:34,859 --> 01:08:35,659
Hopefully, I'll see you next

2335
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:36,320
month.

2336
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:37,810
Absolutely. Thank you so much.

2337
01:08:38,350 --> 01:08:39,270
Thank you so much for having us,

2338
01:08:39,369 --> 01:08:40,170
John.

2339
01:08:40,050 --> 01:08:40,850
The

2340
01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:42,189
team at AEA and I are dedicated

2341
01:08:42,189 --> 01:08:43,569
to bringing this show to you

2342
01:08:43,569 --> 01:08:44,829
because we believe that

2343
01:08:44,829 --> 01:08:46,529
knowledge and information is the

2344
01:08:46,529 --> 01:08:48,189
foundation of successful

2345
01:08:48,189 --> 01:08:49,529
regenerative systems.

2346
01:08:49,970 --> 01:08:52,229
At AEA, we believe that growing

2347
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:53,930
better quality food and making

2348
01:08:53,930 --> 01:08:55,470
more money from your crops is

2349
01:08:55,470 --> 01:08:56,270
possible.

2350
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,300
And since 2006, we've worked

2351
01:08:58,300 --> 01:08:59,359
with leading professional

2352
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:00,800
growers to help them do just

2353
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:01,600
that.

2354
01:09:01,850 --> 01:09:03,510
At AEA, we don't guess.

2355
01:09:03,789 --> 01:09:05,109
We test. We analyze.

2356
01:09:05,710 --> 01:09:06,930
and we provide recommendations

2357
01:09:06,930 --> 01:09:08,710
based on scientific data,

2358
01:09:09,170 --> 01:09:10,050
knowledge, and experience.

2359
01:09:10,770 --> 01:09:11,869
We've developed products that

2360
01:09:11,869 --> 01:09:13,170
are uniquely positioned to help

2361
01:09:13,170 --> 01:09:14,670
growers make more money with

2362
01:09:14,670 --> 01:09:15,649
regenerative agriculture.

2363
01:09:16,350 --> 01:09:17,750
If you are a professional grower

2364
01:09:17,750 --> 01:09:19,609
who believes in testing instead

2365
01:09:19,609 --> 01:09:20,409
of guessing,

2366
01:09:20,949 --> 01:09:22,050
someone who believes in a

2367
01:09:22,050 --> 01:09:23,470
better, more regenerative way to

2368
01:09:23,470 --> 01:09:24,270
grow,

2369
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,960
visit advancingecoag .com and

2370
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:28,500
contact us to see if AEA is

2371
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:29,300
right for you.