We Need to Talk About Bill Belichick's Book

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got the number one Jordan in professional football. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the grage for NFL Daily with my friend Jordan Rodrigue of The Athletic And yes, Jordan, I asked you on to talk about the Bill Belichick book.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: Welcome, let a start to the week.

00:00:21
Speaker 3: Want to start to the week, recording this early Monday morning, and man, you're coming out swinging with this topic today, Greg, you have takes.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: So I spent too much of my weekend reading the Bill Belichick book called The Art of Winning and thinking about Bill Belichick and why this book exists and why this book doesn't work, and I just need to get it out of my system because it's too much Bill Belichick in the middle of May in the year twenty twenty five. So we're going to talk about the book, a little bit about Bill Belichick as an entity right now and why he might be searching for new pr according to ProFootball talk dot com, and we will do a little bit of a news on the back end. But yeah, my first question with this is just and I know you haven't read the book, Jordan. Only a select few apparently got this in the mail. It was originally sent to New York. I'm holding up if you're watching it on YouTube and the New York Office. And then and it got to me, I haven't seen many reviews, so I thought I would tell people about it. And my number one thing is like, why did Bill Belichick write a business book? It's like everything about this rollout is clumsy, and everything with his girlfriend is getting picked on and everything seems clumsy. But beyond all that, like him writing a business book was insane. It was like if you drafted Lawrence Taylor and you asked him to play cornerback or something, and it just makes every part of the book so clumsy.

00:01:54
Speaker 2: And there are good parts of the book.

00:01:56
Speaker 1: I'll get to that, but like the way he tries to connect it to business, we're so bad. And you know this as a writer, Jordan, sometimes the concept doesn't work from step one, and I think this is one of those. There was no saving this book trying to make it a business book. And when you look at some of the emails that Jordan put out on her Instagram, he doesn't seem really that happy with the rollout of this book either. It might not be the book he wanted to write. I don't even know, but that's sort of where I start with this book.

00:02:22
Speaker 3: Well, yes, and to be clear, I have not read this book. Yes, you try to deliver it to me over the weekend, and you know what, I went and touched grass and saw the sun, and I would say, like healthy boundaries, I think it, and I saw Sinners, which was so master It was a masterpiece. It was just masterfully done. It was amazing. So what I would say is like, first of all, the process of getting something published like this in general, when you're trying to walk that line, like usually when you're writing the book or proposal or something like that. I don't know if he had to do that, considering he's such a name, but you have to say what it's going to be in order for people to say, Okay, I will put money into that and invest into it. And in a world where there are very few sports books that are cracking through like the Zeitgeist, I would think that it was I would imagine, and someone from their camp can come correct me if I'm wrong. Imagine that it was pitched as some sort of a combination leadership football book and specifically about leadership. That's what the vibe I'm getting from this, from the rollout, from all of it. So that's one thing. The other part of is Greg, I know what, when you see a book written by Bill Belichick, who's like this encyclopedic mind of football, who has so many stories, has so much to tell about the sport and his experience in it, I could feel from our conversations over the weekend that you were left wanting sort of in that department of what this book was and versus what perhaps you wanted it to be.

00:03:51
Speaker 1: Yes, Like you could tell it's positioning itself as a football book because on the back cover, the top lurb is by some guy Ray Dalio, who's like.

00:04:00
Speaker 2: A leader guy.

00:04:01
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't know.

00:04:03
Speaker 2: I could tell that he's like a good guy.

00:04:04
Speaker 1: He's some guy grect, let's clear, but to me, like someone who's in the world of the football is like, I don't know who that is. And then the lead blurb there is one from Brady on the cover. On the inside cover is from Susie Welch, who he also mentioned, who I also was not aware of, but I googled.

00:04:20
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just gonna rant a little bit like.

00:04:22
Speaker 1: The people he quotes are business, and it was like a turn paper where you're trying to bring it back every once in a while to like every few paragraphs, to like how this can help you, and.

00:04:32
Speaker 2: Like the like it's so clumsy.

00:04:34
Speaker 1: Here's a little quote he had at one point, I'm gonna write He's like, here's a motivation trick. When you feel lazy, close your eyes and imagine Gronk walking into your office, swatting you aside and taking your job. What's he doing? How hard is he doing it? Does he seem depressed to be working hard? Or does he just spike your coffee mug on your head after sending that email you were too overwhelmed to type. There's a lot of that, and it just keep making me thinking, like, did Bill Belichick actually write this book? Because there are a lot of parts in it where it just doesn't sound remotely like his voice, And there's a lot of trying to connect it to you and your meeting room and you and your emails, and you're like, what is happening here? And it made me sort of think that the book in general was like a fundamental misunderstanding of why Bill Belichick is great, that maybe he even misunderstands that, at least to me, I don't think he's great because of his leadership skills. I think all the things there are interesting things in here about running a team, in leadership and all that, but it's because of his football, Accuban, it's because of his game plans. There are a lot of coaches that can lead, and we get none of that. We get incredibly little of football in the book. Are there are stories, and he tries to, you know, bring it back to the business of it all. But it's like a movie that had a lot of money in it, and you can see that all these different hands were in it and that no one really got what they wanted. That was sort of like my overall takeaway, and it's frustrating. He got mad at the ben Volean review, which to me was very generous to it, saying it was like a breezy read and that he left more for future books, like it was a nice way of saying it it was boring. He was mad about the ben Volean review in The Boston Globe because he focused on the part of the book, the chapter where he talks about how I picked up how that can be like a really useful phrase to have in your building up and then he goes through a few things he piked up on and the reason he wrote about that because it was one of the only interesting parts of the book. It actually seemed like it was from Bill Belichick. For instance, he really regrets going forward on fourth and thirteen in the Super Bowl against the Giants when they were eighteen and oh instead of kicking a field goal, which he thought that was his biggest mistake in the game, which was interesting. I heard to talk about that, but it always like goes back to these clumsy points. Right after he makes that point about the field goal, he literally writes, he writes this paragraph, if I can do that admitting that mistake, you can admit that you forgot to take the water mark off your PDF, or you can admit you left a coffee mug on the conference table and that left a mark, or admit that you had a jammed copy machine. And it's just like, how much do you think these readers are idiots? Like, not only do you have no connection to the business world, it's sort of a disdain for the reader that reminds me of his press conferences, that reminds me of his interview with sixty minutes that acts like you should be so lucky to give you the little that I'm gonna give you, and that's all you're gonna get because I don't really think that highly of you. Which works when you're winning super Bowls and you're at a podium. It doesn't work as a book. You're just like, why is this guy treating me like a like an idiot? And you know that's like the business see part of it that drove me crazy.

00:07:53
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting because that was I think one of the greg the gregiest of all Greg Rants just now got more.

00:08:00
Speaker 2: I've got more got.

00:08:02
Speaker 3: He's wearing his Boston Celtic's sweatshirt.

00:08:05
Speaker 2: For our game one tonight. Nick, let's go.

00:08:09
Speaker 3: I do want to say it too, like I think that expecting somebody to write the book you want when they've proven that they're very, very good at like this one thing. And I don't I don't know you. We talked, I asked you about this, We talked about this. I don't know who wrote the book. I I don't know how much of his voice.

00:08:25
Speaker 1: To operate like he wrote the book because it's actually the only name on it.

00:08:28
Speaker 3: But That's the thing is I think that expecting people who are so gifted in this one specific area that made them incredibly regarded, incredibly well known, in absolute dominating, catalytic force, a disruptor in football for so long, who changed the sport in so many ways, expecting him to also be able to adequately convey like how he did that in a way that connects with a side of a building that he never like, a side of an of an economy or an ecosystem that like he never was actually in always had people doing it for him. I think that it's like I would say, for me, I again, I have not read it, but I would go in with with no expectations. Okay for hearing before people hearing there no, because you went on for like ten minutes just now.

00:09:18
Speaker 1: So I will just say, I just want to answer that that specific point. The only reason I would have higher expectations is because he has such in affinity for a the history of football, be books about football he's participated in.

00:09:33
Speaker 3: This is not that book. He no, no, I get that it's from them done in pages. It's clear that this is not that book, nor is it pretending or trying to be I'm not sticking up for a book I haven't read. I'm also not dumping on a book I haven't read. But I would just say like, and you, I Greg, you are a incredibly experienced mind and voice in this particular topic with such a background in it. So I'm not like pushing back on your opinion.

00:09:56
Speaker 2: I just want I would say why I had higher expectations.

00:10:00
Speaker 3: But right, and that's that's fine. But I would just say, like, this is not that book, so you can't even start from framing your perspective on the book from the from the lens of Oh, Bill Belichick has a pen in his hand and I'm going to learn some football. This is going to be great. Like that's just not never what this was going to be. And I think that's what a lot of people are having a hard time with about his image currently right now and some of the chaos around it as it pertains to his composure at or his comportment at at UNC, also his relationship the larger narrative that's going on around him as a brand right now. I think that it's like letting people down because it's not the thing that they thought of Bill Belichick for so long.

00:10:41
Speaker 2: When I'm not trying that hard.

00:10:43
Speaker 1: He's doing something and it's a book that is sort of about how hard you need to work and what leadership you need to show, and he's doing none of that. The thing I was most disappointed by him in the media was like, there could have been a good media Bill Belichick out there, but he just decided to do everything and try some harder at some than others and just like crank through it, and he wasn't really trying that hard at it. This book is written sort of like a book by a guy who is writing a resume for an NFL owner to hire him, or like a political candidate who's in between elections and doesn't actually want to say anything.

00:11:24
Speaker 2: And I think there could be a good Bill Belichick book there.

00:11:27
Speaker 1: That's all because he literally has a Belichick library, like he takes it so seriously. No one has worked more with NFL films to like cultivate how people think about him than Bill Belichick. No one cares about football history. So in a book where you're talking all about these principles and you're not like acting on it, because you're kind of clearly phoning in the book, then you're just like what am I doing here? And why would it? More importantly, why would anyone spend thirty five dollars on this?

00:11:54
Speaker 3: So I'm going to try to talk for thirty consecutive seconds now, So I just I'm just pushback. I'm just saying I don't think he wrote it for those people who have football expectations of him. I think, out of the gate, like you're saying, it's written as like instructive for people who, yes, he thinks he is, he probably thinks he is more successful than and probably is in many ways, and yes, thinks that he has something to like educate people on. But he's not writing to a mind that he's sitting in a room with talking to, talking ideas back and forth. He's writing to an audience that he feels like he's instructing. And so of course it's going to feel derivative. Of course, it's going to feel like you're being toucked down on and you have higher expectations for this great figure in football who is like one of the brightest minds we've ever seen, and you just want more of that. But he's not writing it for that, clearly. I mean this entire.

00:12:46
Speaker 1: Francis he's writing is so Tom Curran, who knows him as well and has covered him as much as just about anyone. Yeah, he talked a little bit about this, and he didn't think Belichick even wanted to write it, and that's sort of what he was like, probably got forced to write it from people around him. And there were some emails that went out that you know, his his girlfriend let out, I was looking for it now where you know, he got very upset about some of the language in the book and how the rollout's going and the title of the book, which is you know, he wanted the title to be something different, and they called it the Art of Winning, which is either a takeoff of the Art of War or the Art of the Deal by Donald Trump. Either way, it's not like one of the It wasn't what he wanted it to be. He wanted it to be do your job, and it just it kind of gets to it would.

00:13:39
Speaker 2: Have been really good, why are you doing this?

00:13:41
Speaker 3: That would have told that would have told me more about what the book is about. He's literally telling people how to do their jobs, you know, like.

00:13:47
Speaker 1: I write exactly, that would be a great title for the book, and that is what the book away, and there is some legit takeaways in there. The one I liked in terms of like office takeaways was good. He was like, beware of the people that come up to you on the first day of your job and are really nice and say they'll do anything for you.

00:14:06
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, that's a bark. That's a good one. That's a good one.

00:14:10
Speaker 1: Some of the football nuggets are great. I mean, there are little things in here. That's the thing is he could write about a book of a lot of great stories. Like he has like one paragraph on Jimmy Johnson is like where he doesn't say anything. It's a lot of show, don't tell. Like it's bad writing in general. It's like poorly edited. There are points referring back to something that didn't exist, Like it looks just sloppy, and so that like there are points that were said two paragraphs before that are set again in a way that you're like, I actually think they were editing this and it like wasn't. Like it's just sloppy. So if you're saying, you know, be a good leader, you got to be a better leader of this book. But there are a few like great little stories, like one was like about Antonio Brown and how they had to pay him back all this money because when he was with the Patriots, he had sent this spec so like unfertilized milk to Tom Brady. They were bonding over their nutrition stuff, but it wasn't refrigerated and it was just sitting at Tom Brady's locker and went bad and Antonio Brown wasted thirty five hundred dollars and the Patriots decided to like pay for it because they were both in such bad moods about it, and it made Antonio Brown happy. And it's a longer story, but it is kind of funny. And he used that point.

00:15:23
Speaker 3: So they literally cried over spoiled milk, Yes, exact like.

00:15:27
Speaker 1: He used that point to be like, sometimes you got to make the important people at your organization happy, even if it's just like doesn't really make any sense. And you had it wasn't your fault, and he's like, and we went on and we won that game, and Antonio Brown had a big play in that game. And oh, by the way, they cut him like two days later. He doesn't mention like he mentions that, and he's like, and they reunited and Tampa Bay and their football marriage continues, and so instead of talking it all about like the mistakes that he made, like even when he's trying to cop the mistakes, he quickly sort of makes it sound good or just the points don't make any sense.

00:16:00
Speaker 2: Man, it's just a little cringey. I'm sorry, I am disappointed.

00:16:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think again, that's considering your perspective on it, like in your history with with that franchise and all of that. It's like, I think that's fair to look at somebody who is one of, like I said, one of our predominant figures in the sport right now and forever, and to expect more out of something that you feel came from his brain. You're kind of like, is that what's in your brain? Because I know that there's so much more that's in your in your brain. And I think, like I said before, I think that's where the societal collective is having a hard time with this entire like reimagination and rebrand, even though I would argue that it's not necessarily a total like actual rebrand, because he's acting in a lot of ways that he always has acted. But this entire like new era of Bill in the college version, like it's it's just so it. People have him built up as this figure, as we tend to do in sports, and some of that is by merit and by accolade, but some of that also is like, well, how much do you really how well do you really know this person who you watch mumble and be grumpy on a podium and who very clearly and meticulously has controlled his image and his brand for so many years? Like how well do you really know the person across from you on your TV screen and not, you know, breathing oxygen in the same room as you. So I think that that's where people are grappling, Like, like I said, on a broader scale, people are really grappling with this entire conversation right now. And I think that's why it's piqued people's interests, because nothing humans like more than a good psychological study.

00:17:41
Speaker 1: Yes, and like, okay, let's get into that part of it. I do want to get back to the book a little bit before we go, But like, I think how the book is highlighting what's going on in his life is interesting. The quote I mentioned before, he says, I have at times relocked gone. Along with the title, the cover and the language in this book. It's a little bit of a problem if you're not happy with the language of the book.

00:18:06
Speaker 2: And I get it.

00:18:06
Speaker 1: There was there was a part in the book where he called Federer the goat of tennis.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: It was like Bill Belichick's not saying that.

00:18:12
Speaker 1: There's a part of the book where he had a Patrick Mahomes quote that he said he would like to make his cell phone ring tone.

00:18:18
Speaker 2: It's like Bill Belichick did not say that. Just like, okay, so.

00:18:23
Speaker 1: I get why you didn't want to go along with the language, like don't go along with the language. But he says in the book and there are a few a few bars Like I said, he said, the wrong reason for mistakes is almost always ego. And that's sort of my bigger point, which is like this book is a mistake and it's about ego. This rollout is a little bit about his ego, believing he can control the narrative and that everyone else is wrong.

00:18:47
Speaker 2: Like this book is not winning. It's half asked.

00:18:51
Speaker 1: And I know you're saying the expectations should be lower, But like he I guess if he wanted to make a good book, he would go he would do it.

00:19:01
Speaker 3: He's I'm not saying they should be lower. I'm just saying it does not meet what is very clearly the expectation people have of him as a football mind. And he's he's not to me, he's not trying to reach that world at all whatsoever. He's trying to reach another collective group that perhaps he feels like he has something to instruct them based on his status in the other completely different world.

00:19:24
Speaker 1: Was there used to like make a quick buck when he wasn't sure if he was going to get back into coaching. I just the thing that gets me is like, let's can we get past? And I saw this written in a column over the weekend, like can we get past the point of people saying like bet Belichick doesn't care what he thinks? And then he's he's in the CBS interview and he's like, I never cared too much what people think when he's talking about relationship, Like who cares more about what people think? That the choice of his sweatshirt with the hole in it is a very conscious fashion choice to construct how he wants people to think about him. And he doesn't like now that he's losing like a little control. And I like his image in the past, like it's an image that supports him having a library of books and NFL films. It's a guy who like loves football, and that image is not in that book. But if you read those emails that the Athletic, for instance, brought up with their public records requests, and the one even that I don't think his girlfriend is doing him any favors putting out there, it shows like how much he really cares what people thinks. Throughout his career. Tom Current talked about this on his podcast. He's had favorites in the media that sort of are his guys. He'll give a lot of information to. But the second that they push back, even just a little bit on him and have their own opinion about what Bill is doing, they're iced out forever. That is caring about what people thinks more than everything, And so I do think it's okay to be a little disappointed in him as a human on a weekend that Greg Popovich is retiring and I'm just thinking, man, kid, does a couple of the Bell Tech stories ever be like the Popovich stories?

00:21:02
Speaker 3: Like?

00:21:02
Speaker 2: Is that too much to ask?

00:21:03
Speaker 1: Obviously it is, But I've invested too much in my Belichick life.

00:21:07
Speaker 2: To just like totally let it go.

00:21:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I get that, and like, Greg, trust me, Like I feel this from you. We've texted about this, Like I know that this is something you're incredibly passionate about. I'm not pushing back against disagreeing with your opinion of a book that you read and you took a lot of time to study. I'm just saying all of our sports figures in general, all of them, top to bottom, every single one of them. The people you even see on your TV screens talking about sports like they're human beings with strange lives in a very strange environment that's hyper competitive. That's a sickness in many ways that that makes you ill to exist in for extended periods of time. And then you're not, and then you are, and then you're not, and then you are, and then you're you're grappling with how to exist as a human within that space, and then you become of that space. And Bill Belichick a long time ago became synonymous with that space and of that space, and I think became sort of this hard and shell of a person that was like a brand and a grumbler and someone we would just see on our TV but I'm just saying, like with anyone who exists in these spaces, whatever sport or media or whatever, like, don't have the expectation. Just don't be cause they're gonna they're gonna be somebody who you're not. You don't know at the end of the day.

00:22:29
Speaker 1: That it's a great point, and I think it's true, and this one hits I think just because I do love football, and I love football books, and I love Belichick as a football mind, and I think he does too, and so I think that good book is in there. I think maybe he'll maybe he still will write it someday. But part of it is also I think what you're seeing from some of his ex players who are willing to talk out that's just like you forget that the end for so many of these great coaches specifically are not I mean, go through him. Vince Lombardi unfortunately, like was kind of stumbling through an era in Washington before he just died on the job more or less. Don Shula the end it was not great. Tom Landry, the end was not great. Bill Belichick's hero, Paul Brown, like the end was was really tough. And I guess I did have in my mind this like post career Belichick that could be different, partly because he's he taught me to do that. So I am going to recommend a couple books, Education of a Coach by David Hauberstam, which is with Belichick about him and his dad. Is like that's kind of the problem is that, like the Great Belichick book has already been written and Belichick participated it, and like there are actually a couple little things in this book. And then there's also a book Patriot Reign by Michael Holly, which was a great insider fly on the wall account where he's with the team for two years, including their first which is or another they're O two o three seasons, which are amazing. Like, read those books and he participated in those books. Uh, if you want to read good football writing and learn a little bit uh more about it.

00:24:14
Speaker 3: And I hold out hope too that the that the really good football book that like kind of preserves who this person is in football's history. I hold out hope for that existing top education. But I'm saying specifically, but if he wants to write it by him kind of plumbing some of the areas that maybe are yet to be discovered. But yeah, and I agree with you. I think that those are two really good examples. And again I go back to the very start. It's hard. We don't see a lot of those books come into existence, that's fair anymore. There have been a few really great ones over the last couple of years, but they are few and far between when they do exist. And so to me, this strikes a line between what does a publisher want, what does a market want, what does a marketing agency want? And how can I try to reach and profit into this area where I can talk to people sitting like at a what are these like pay for attendance seminars that get held, like these conferences? It kind of is like that, you know what I mean? So like maybe that's maybe that's what it was, and the next one won't be that. I don't know. It's a long it's a long life. It's a long road.

00:25:26
Speaker 1: He according to those emails and sort of how he reacted in the CBS interviews and the statement that he made upset about how CBS you know cut the interview does indicate that he wants the book to be taken seriously and on its own terms, and so.

00:25:43
Speaker 2: So we tried to do that. Maybe maybe I'll write another another book. It's funny.

00:25:50
Speaker 1: I was thinking, this is a small stupid thing. Like he actually like points out how Bill Parcells was a good communicator when he does like the if they're going to make me make the meal, they should at least let me cook the groceries, which is his famous line on his way out of New England, and he mentions, how like that's a good example of clear communication. And I'm sitting there reading, like thinking like I literally read another book, including you, Bill Belichick, where you made it clear that you thought Bill Parcells was an absolutely horrible leader for essentially phoning in his last couple weeks with the Patriots as they were preparing for the Super Bowl because he was already taking a job with the New York Jets. And so it was almost an idea of like, here's this Bill with ideals from twenty years ago in a different book, and here's Bill trying to get that cash grab, just like making.

00:26:41
Speaker 2: A very sort of lazy point years.

00:26:43
Speaker 3: One problem about books and about football and some of the more binary ways football is covered and talked about, is it freezes people in one period of times.

00:26:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, so That's one of the great things here out him too. It really is. And this is a this is a weird moment time for him.

00:27:00
Speaker 1: Jordan, He's got he's got his son, Steven Belichick's wife making like anti Jordan Hudson comments on Instagram, Well Steven's on his staff, and I'm.

00:27:10
Speaker 2: Thinking, oh man, this is this is messy. Let's take a quick break and let's get back. Let's talk some news after the break.

00:27:24
Speaker 1: One of my favorite parts I didn't mention at the end of that Belichick book is how he just thanked like hundreds and hundreds of people and like hunt like like a hundred Patriots players or more. And I was just thinking, if you were one of those Patriots players, like because obviously couldn't think every single one, it would be heartbreaking if you're going fearing and your.

00:27:42
Speaker 2: Name is not on there.

00:27:43
Speaker 1: Like I was like, because he didn't mention Malcolm Butler even once in the in the book, I was like, you better have thank Malcolm Butler.

00:27:49
Speaker 2: It's like he did. He did did not mention Robert Kraft though, did Yeah. I saw that.

00:27:54
Speaker 3: I I think my face is melted off after that.

00:27:58
Speaker 2: I see review that.

00:28:00
Speaker 1: You if I really wanted to get into it. I'd go into the couple reviews I've seen up. I mean, give me a break, people, Why are you trading favors by like having a decent review of Bill Belichick at this point of his career.

00:28:13
Speaker 2: It's not going to help you out. It's not going to help you out. Just be honest. Look, there's not a lot of news, Jordan.

00:28:20
Speaker 1: There's always a couple of quiet weeks after the draft where they do some rookie mini camps over the last weekend, like the Seahawks at the Rookie Minnie Camp.

00:28:29
Speaker 2: Some other teams did some more rookie minute camps.

00:28:31
Speaker 1: Pop up this week. Some OTAs are starting up again this week. But it's a little bit quiet. But we did learn that Washington is going to host the twenty twenty seven draft, an announcement made to great fanfare on Monday.

00:28:45
Speaker 3: Definitely a new era for Commanders fans. I feel like we say this every couple of weeks at this point, with that new ownership group and coaching staff and quarterback and infrastructure at least agreed to for that local stadium site.

00:28:58
Speaker 2: It is.

00:28:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's I think we've seen how responsive and electric. These cities regardless of where they are, whether it's raining, whether it's cold, whether it's outside, whether it's inside. Like, these cities really show up and show out for this event, and the Commanders kind of keep stacking up these wins.

00:29:21
Speaker 1: Here, great football town, great football fans. Pittsburgh I believe has it next year, and so they keep going to cool these cities that can't get a Super Bowl but can have a draft, which is really cool. The announcement, by the way, was made by Washington ownership and Donald Trump. So just the reminder when there's like keep politics out of football. It's like everyone's putting politics in football. Politics are in literally everything, but they're going out of the way to put politics in football.

00:29:54
Speaker 3: That was Yeah, I wonder how those crowd photos are going to be manipulated.

00:29:59
Speaker 1: The fifth Your options were wrapped up over the last week, and I just thought i'd throw it out to you. Is there anything that stuck out to you with the fifth year options?

00:30:10
Speaker 3: Ikia Kanwu kind of stuck out to me a little bit. This is a Panthers franchise that's clearly not willing just yet to give up on somebody they scouted, somebody they drafted. All the previous previous regime did that. So I do feel like this is uh that one stuck out to me because they picked up his fifth year option. To be clear, yes, yes that they did pick up his fifth year option. And you know, if you at least like some of the traits and you can keep a tackle around for cheap for an extra year, I guess you do it. But for me, I liked the maturation of their offensive line as a collective over the last season about season and a half, and he just there's still to me so far for him to go that. Maybe they think that they can continue consistency, the continuity of staff of other people in that room will help him, I guess take the next step.

00:31:04
Speaker 1: So, just to give some context for the audience, So the fifth year option is for guys they're now only entering their fourth year, but you're guaranteeing them their salary next year at twenty twenty six. So for Ikya Kanwu, that is a seventeen million dollar contract for a starting left tackle locked in for next year.

00:31:25
Speaker 2: I think the general.

00:31:26
Speaker 1: Consensus from people around the team and people that watched them was that he probably did improve significantly enough last year to at least feel good about his trajectory that he's getting closer to average. And the crazy thing is now is like these fifth year options, for the most part, we're going to get it to one. That's an exception. For the most part, are such reasonable deals that actually, like I get it, like seventeen million dollars now, Jalen Moore got that in free agency, like Cone probably would too, Like it actually is probably worth it. And if you wound up being your swing tackle even next year, it's like it's not even the worst outcome. So so I get that one. Well, while we're talking about Tyler, Lindenbraum did not get his, which I was like, whoa w that's crazy, But they said it's because of they wanted to do a long term deal and because his fifth year option was so beefed up because he's made Pro Bowl all Pro I forget which one it is, but that made it up to twenty three million dollars, which is I get why they wouldn't do that.

00:32:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you do a multi year deal with him, obviously you can help out your own salary cap in the short term of that deal versus pay that significant of a guarantee to somebody in that one fiscal year. So I wouldn't be surprised to see them kind of go heavier on the cash flow of a longer term deal with him and then kind of avoid some of those guarantees that that fifth year option would have provided him specifically in.

00:32:45
Speaker 2: That year, right.

00:32:46
Speaker 1: I do like that they put into the collective Bargaining Agreement, which really does not help these orgies out at all, these first round picks in general, that if you make Pro Bowls, it bumps up your fifth option. Because he was not taken early. That's why is twenty three million dollars. And so I would be surprised, knowing the Ravens, if they don't get a long term deal done with him. They did pick up the option of Kyle Hamilton. Eventually they'll get one done with him. Some other interesting one Jordan Davis, who's just kind of been like a okay, two down run stopper, does get his option picked up by the Eagles. Some offensive linemen did not, Zion Johnson for the Chargers, Trevor Pennying the right tackle for the Saints, and then Evan Neil no surprise top ten pick for the Giants. It's a reminder, Jordan. They always say, like in the first round, when you take those linemen, it's like, well, plug and play, Like there was always there, used to be this idea that like offensive linemen were somehow safer picks when they're just like every other pick there there, there's inherent risk in every single pick.

00:33:43
Speaker 2: And those three did not work out.

00:33:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, somehow to me that sounded still like a little well Campbell shade. I know you're still not mbursing that pick, but you know, I'm just I'm picking up I'm picking up some subtleties from me here.

00:33:56
Speaker 2: You know, I was not thank you about that.

00:33:59
Speaker 1: So, yeah, those three guys didn't get the option. The Packers actually kind of split the difference on their two first round picks from four years ago. Little surprising. Kuay Walker was a no. He's been all over the place as an off ball linebacker, and I think they really like Eddrin Cooper, so he's kind of replacing maybe what they thought kuay Walker could do. But they did pick up Devonte Wyatt their defensive tackles, so another score one for the defensive lineman over off ball linebackers. And then I just want to shout out Devin Lloyd, who I think if I hadn't heard Ali Connolly's opinion, this wouldn't have surprised me at all. Ali Connelly, for what it's worth, thought our friend who's been on the show, that Devin Lloyd improved enough last year that he thought he was almost at like an all pro Pro Bowl level. It was like one of the rising off ball linebackers in the league. And the Jaguars obviously disagreed with that. They didn't pick up his fifth year option. So that I'm starting to make my list Jordan of a twenty twenty six free agent, he could be an interesting one with the big year.

00:34:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if he gets there, because I don't think I think you know, it is coming from a team building model that really devalues financially that position, whether it's financially or draft pick. From that sort of like Rams Tree from a front office perspective, But you have not again guaranteeing a certain amount of money versus perhaps getting an extension done might be a little bit of a difference here. They said they need to get more information on him, but I mean, the tape is the tape. So I feel like this is at least someone we might just at least keep an eye on in terms of something multi year versus letting him totally hit free agency. But they are trying to rebuild their core of their roster at the same time.

00:35:39
Speaker 1: So and look, they didn't need to see more for Travon Walker exactly.

00:35:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, That's why I brought it up, that.

00:35:44
Speaker 1: Said, it might be more of a system thing too, Whereas like Travon Walker, you know what he's going to do almost in any system, whereas they are bringing in a totally new defense, which you haven't talked about much at all, the Jaguars new young defensive Quarterator Campanil, I believe is how you pronounce his yeah, and so seeing how he fits in that defense. All right, A couple other just small items before we get going the Ravens. Justin Tucker is still on that roster. I thought it was interesting over the weekend that John Harbass said a kicking decision between Tucker and their sixth round pick will come down to kicking, and that's it will be about football, and that they're still waiting to find out about the allegations for Tucker.

00:36:29
Speaker 2: What do you make of that? It's weird.

00:36:31
Speaker 3: It's typical. It's the thing that kind of irritates me because it happens over and over and over again when these situations arise, where in order to avoid the topic at hand or having any nuanced or thoughtful discussion, and also to avoid putting your foot in your mouth over information that you maybe have not fully verified or research or like things that could get you in legal trouble. Like it is just the the blanket coverall excuse of I'm actually not going to talk about this right now. It will be a football decision. And so you see it. You see it with everything. You see it with these types of situations. You see it when people make questionable trades. You see it when you know all all the time that is code. That is football bro, football guy code for I'm actually not going to talk about this with you. So it just like I have no I have no real comment or take on it because it's irritating. It's just it's over and over again. This is what we see. When it's a situation that is potentially very very serious. Then you know, it's just it's irritating and it's derivative, and it's it makes it infantilizes if I'm pronouncing that right, and fantilizes an audience that is very much aware that this is not just a football topic, as it pertains too. Justin Tucker.

00:37:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they in Harbor even pointed out, look, we took Tyler Loop in the first sixth round, then he goes early in the sixth round, and I'm like, something weird is going on here. He was prepped from hit by his PR people before talking about Tucker. It might be as something as simple as they're trying to avoid any any filing from the NFLPA, that Tucker is getting treated unfairly, that it's all about football, and that they're planning to cut him at a later date because it helps their salary cap more.

00:38:17
Speaker 2: Who knows.

00:38:18
Speaker 1: There's no way Justin Tucker is kicking for them again, I can't imagine, but he is still there on the roster. They signed your old friend Joe Noteboom, by the way, he will try to make that roster. Jerome Ford took a pay cut in Cleveland, will go through the rest of these quick and that just I just wanted to mention that because that likely ends Nick Chubb's time in Cleveland. They're pretty stacked at running back, and we'll see if Chubb ends up in Chicago. There's been some talk about that before. It takes like one hundred percent pay cut to stay and there's just not room.

00:38:46
Speaker 2: I don't think.

00:38:46
Speaker 1: After the Browns drafted a couple players at the position, the Bills signed Elijah Moore. That was rumored at so those those Bills radio guys that Brandon Bean blew up at like they should be happy you got Elijah more in the building.

00:39:00
Speaker 3: Was it like the next day too, or two days later or something like that that It's like I could just imagine Brandon Bean, who I like a lot, by the way, I thought that was hilarious and and I think those guys handled it really well too, because it's always a bit of a shock when something like that happens. But it's like I could just imagine of sitting there with the transaction sheet as like his assistant GM and just being like, gosh, we need to run this through and then everybody's going to make the exact same joke at the same time.

00:39:27
Speaker 2: Oh my god. There were some rooky mini camps. I do.

00:39:31
Speaker 1: I am dorky enough that like I go to your great site the athletic and see like the pictures of Jalen Milroe and Gray's Abel and Elijah Royo and the Seahawks uniforms, and just like.

00:39:41
Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool.

00:39:42
Speaker 1: There's quotes from them talking, that's cool Zabel. By the way, he was left guard at the mini camp. They're not going to use him at center. That was expect that he's going to probably start at left guard. They're not going to use him at tackle either, at least not now. And Nick Iman worry their safety playing a lot near the line of scrimmage. And it caught my eye that he's wearing the number three.

00:40:01
Speaker 3: Who could have ever projected some of his traits? Yeah? Who could have ever predicted? It's just cool. It's like, I don't know. I like when football pays tribute to itself. You know, yet another reason why you were let down by the belt.

00:40:15
Speaker 2: I actually like.

00:40:16
Speaker 1: It, right, I like it when I like that Emmin Worry is wearing Russell Wilson's number. Sometimes I don't like the defensive players with the single digits, but there is something I don't know.

00:40:27
Speaker 2: I actually like the other people. Maybe we'll hate it.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: Speaking of defensive players who might be playing safety Jalen Ramsey are last thing Sean McVay mentioned. I believe it was on Adam Shin's radio show that they were interested in training for Jalen Ramsey. He basically confirmed it that that would be something that they were interested in, kind of mentioned the timing of it all. June first might be a big date here said other teams might be involved in this as well. But it's clear that Jalen Ramsey will not be on the Dolphins, and it does sound like there's a chance that the Rams will be the team he lands with.

00:41:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, they've been saying this publicly and very openly since the days leading up to the first round of the draft. You know, they reiterated it again on Saturday afternoon after the every round of the draft, like that he is a player they would be interested in reuniting with. There's there's no surprise there. Jalen Ramsey most likely wants to come back to Los Angeles as well, had a lot of success here, really understands knows the building. Sean McVay, Chrishula, He's very close with those guys. So that's all makes sense. It's the little old pesky problem of the Rams are not going to pay a significant amount for this, and Miami would have to absorb salary even post June first, So that's the hold up here. It's like, Okay, all of this sounds really nice, but how much is Miami really willing to do here? Because the Rams they kind of go about this process, and they went about it this last year and then and certainly through the draft where they did not pick up a corner and they went out and they got Emmanuel Forbes last season to play potentially on the outside behind either a Kella Witherspoon or Darius Williams. Kobe Durant is going into his final year of his contract, so they have a four deep. I wouldn't say that it's gonna shock people or anything like that, but it's a four deep and they're deep at safety, and they got a couple undrafted free agents that they really like who played well. Fam Kim Kitchens also played really well. So it's like one of those things where they do have leverage to draw Miami down a little bit. And I think they know by now that they're just not going to make fiscally unsound moves heading into what will be probably a couple of big spend years for them as they kind of try to go all in with Matthew Stafford still at quarterback. So this is one of those things where I think everybody wants it to happen, but structurally we'll see. I would predict he's on the Rams roster by training camp, but like I said, we'll see.

00:42:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the need and the desire from all parties will match up more than the desire anywhere else. The trick is always can you get a guy to take a little less money. I kind of doubt it when it comes to Ramsey, but we'll see if he ends up having any choice. That is it for today's show. Jordan, thank you for depie up Fiery One. I mean it was It wasn't at.

00:43:18
Speaker 3: You, no, I know, I just I could feel. It's like when you're listening to like a Metallica song and your face just starts peeling back, like they're not playing to me or at me, but my face is still melting. You know.

00:43:30
Speaker 1: I'll take that as a compliment. Let's hit the music here. Jordan will be back. It's Big Jordan week. I believe we have Colleen Wolf in the studio once to that. Yeah, man Belichick did say the Patriot Way does not exist.

00:43:46
Speaker 2: I appreciated that in the book.

00:43:47
Speaker 1: So when the Patriot Way no longer exists, but the man who said that decided to trademark the Belichick Way, football is back