Ep. 344 - JPM Momentum and Asia’s Hotbeds of Innovation

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Welcome to a Special Edition of the BioCentury This Week podcast.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>We're now in our seventh season and it's the first time we've done this from the sidelines of the JP Morgan Healthcare Conference.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Now JPM this year shockingly, kicked out with some sunny skies and more financial momentum than we've seen in, I can't even remember.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>It's been so long.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Plus we had more than 25 biotech deals.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Some M&A as well.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Deals of note as this is the East-West reception after all, RemeGen's $650 million upfront deal for a bispecific with AbbVie.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>And we saw a newcomer to the NewCo model game Haisco.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>they partnered up with a Signate led by Frazier Ventures to launch a new COPD company backed by oh, $200 million I believe it was.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>So, joining me today, uh, we're gonna have.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Two sets of guests, I'll introduce them all.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>We have James Huang, founder and managing partner of Panacea Venture, which has a footprint in the U.S., Europe, and China.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>We'd like to thank James, who's put this party on with us for about a dozen years now.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Ingrid Yin will be joining us, she's Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Maytech Global, which also has been putting on this party for a dozen years with us.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>So thanks to Ingrid and James.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>And we have Matt Gardner, he's Head of Life Sciences, Americas for CBRE.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>And joining us in the second segment will be, Ting Xiao, Partner, Regional Life Sciences Lead at DLA Piper, coming all the way from Shanghai.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>She gets bonus points for that.

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<v Audience>Yes.

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<v Audience>And also jet lag.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>And jet lag points, of course.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Alright, well, Simone, uh, you've been,  busy writing your annual letter letter from the editor, and  you struck sort of a optimistic tone this, this time around.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>And, uh,  I'm wondering, you know, I, kind of.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>I'm an optimist by nature, and so I I, I'm kind of like, it's gonna be good this year and, well, we've had a few rough years.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Maybe it's the Jeff Jinx, I don't know.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>But Simone, is there reason to be, uh, feeling different this year as we head into the JP Morgan conference?

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<v Simone Fishburn>Thanks Jeff and uh, thanks everyone.

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<v Simone Fishburn>It's great to be here.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And  for those of you not here, we do all each have a glass of wine, so cheers everybody.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Cheers to a good year.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Thank you.

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<v Simone Fishburn>it's interesting you say that, Jeff, because, uh, you may know this, my husband is actually my first reviewer on some things that I write, and he looked at and he goes, "Wow, that's really negative, how can you do that?" And I said, well, being as optimistic as I could.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So I think it's a little bit in the eye of the beholder.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We do really think that there's a sort of split screen going on in 2026, and I'm just gonna talk about a few of the things that are our themes for this year at BioCentury and things that we'll be looking at.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I think in the second half of this podcast, we're gonna talk more about the capital markets, but clearly we ended 2025 with a lot of verve and momentum and you know, certainly in the follow ones and, and you know, really a, a robust year for M&A.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So, we'll, we'll talk a little bit more about that later.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I don't know that I would call this an optimistic or a pessimistic thing, but a major theme for us in 2026 is the issue of speed to first in human trials.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I think that what 2025 did, was China just completely changed the global conversation about that.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And other countries in the world have realized that that is and should be an incentive for them or a motivation for them to address their pathways.

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<v Simone Fishburn>But globally innovators and investors are sort of frustrated that in the US you can't do that fast enough.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So,  the global footprint of faster first in human is something we're gonna be watching.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Talking of global, we are looking at, you've done a very nice story on Japan.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We will be holding.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Our East-West conference in Korea.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We've previously done one in Singapore.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We are always looking for where's the next hotbed of innovation.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I think it's a given that China is a hotbed.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And then just on the, on the R&D front, a few things we're looking at.

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<v Simone Fishburn>You know, talking to my college Selina here, and we've even seen deals today, brain shuttles is going to be a big conversation in 2026 and hopefully beyond.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We've got, Denali's brain shuttle enabled molecule may get approval this year and that would be a first for the technology.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And there are various other deals and programs going forward there.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We also have a big eye on protein degradation pathways, targeted protein degradation, which has been around also for a long time, but seems to be making new ground also potentially with a, an approval this year.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And then, one more thing I wanna talk about.

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<v Simone Fishburn>In particular with respect to China is RNAi.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And we really feel that, this was something that came up at our China conference, this thread, and you are nodding James, so maybe you're gonna talk about it, but really seeing China companies start to turn their incredible skills to a technology RNAi that's pretty well validated now commercially, and scientifically, and clinically and, you know, there's tremendous target space there.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So we think that that's really an area to keep watching and there've been some deals in that space as well.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I'm not gonna spend long on the other darker screen, which is still an overhang of risk.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>We had the Lord of Darkness on the, uh, the regular podcast this morning.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>That's our,

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<v Simone Fishburn>So I'll leave it there, yeah.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>that's our Washington Editor, Steve Usin, who, uh, hasn't been as chipper as he used to be.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>I wonder why?

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Why don't we, uh, James was nodding along there when you brought up RNA, uh, James.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Matt and I, uh, had a good prep call and we were talking about all sorts of things,  price points for assets, why we don't see M&A happening from West to East.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>James, why don't you, uh, just jump in where, where you're excited to jump in.

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<v James Huang>Boy, yeah, there's so many topics we can talk about.

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<v James Huang>So, um, big picture view, let's say RNAi.

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<v James Huang>This is a good demonstration what China's all about.

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<v James Huang>You see, during COVID, China had no access to BioNTech and Moderna.

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<v James Huang>And what we saw during that period of time in 2020 was this huge rush of companies going to RNAi.

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<v James Huang>And if I were to look at today what they've accomplished in the last five years, and we track these companies, I can easily point to more than 50 of these companies.

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<v James Huang>That is astonishing if you think about it, right?

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<v James Huang>Because the whole field in RNAi, it took us in the United States a good solid 20 plus years to get to a group of very, very good companies.

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<v James Huang>So what's so interesting about China is that, you have such good infrastructure, good chemists, good biologists.

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<v James Huang>And that you can get from the initial discovery stage, to going through the animal studies, into initial proof of concept in men now in less than two years.

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<v James Huang>Even though  I don't know if you guys have noticed all these AI discovery companies in the United States.

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<v James Huang>They've been talking in the past couple years, gosh, they can do something, get stuff in the molecule into clinic in less than 12 months.

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<v James Huang>Show me even a single company can do that.

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<v James Huang>But yet in China.

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<v James Huang>We're seeing companies going to new modalities, they create molecules, and they're doing it on average, less than $2 million per molecule.

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<v James Huang>Into animal studies, in the clinic.

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<v James Huang>It's such an amazing speed.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Can can, can I just follow up on that?

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<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And I think that there are two really interesting parts or important parts of this.

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<v Simone Fishburn>One is that innovators in the West are very aware of China innovation in antibodies and in small molecules.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And some of them, because of that speed are staying in stealth for much longer because they really are worried, right.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I don't think that they've quite yet caught on to the fact that, siRNA, or which can be antisense or, or, um, sorry, antisense or siRNA for RNAi, you know, can actually, represent the next area.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So I think that that idea of China become a powerhouse there has not yet really penetrated, which is why we talk about it.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So we feel like people should know that.

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<v Simone Fishburn>But the other part of it is what we see it kind of goes hand in hand with gene therapies, where as gene therapies are faltering for various, you're, you are nodding here, we'll bring you in in a minute.

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<v Simone Fishburn>As they've got various, both commercial and clinical issues, RNAi offers this, you know, maybe twice a year, much lower risk, way of still getting at the genetic, um, it's still a genetic treatment as it were, and you're still getting at that space.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And so it's sort of having become validated, it's now entering new areas and, and taking on, uh, you know, new potential.

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<v Mathew Gardner>Yeah, I just wanted to offer to be the club historian for a second, uh, because I think, you know, you, you look at any emerging technology in our industry and it's actually takes quite a long time to get onto the perfected path and I'll, I'll offer a couple examples.

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<v Mathew Gardner>I think we could have looked back at monoclonals and they didn't just immediately hit, it took a long time to figure out why things weren't, uh, you know, being accepted and we had to sort of work on humanizing and then fully human.

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<v Mathew Gardner>And now we've got a couple of the biggest royalty machines in the industry that were born in the East Bay here that I think both live in Tahoe now.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Yep.

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<v Mathew Gardner>But I, I think, you know, the, the on

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<v Jeff Cranmer>On the Nevada side.

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<v Mathew Gardner>Yes.

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<v Mathew Gardner>On the Nevada side, yes.

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<v Mathew Gardner>Uh, so, you know, I think the way that, that technology progresses is a pretty close parallel to how we saw gene therapy get completely interrupted in the 1990s.

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<v Mathew Gardner>And take quite a long time to work its way back and needed a lot of help from sort of novel changes in the whole process to get back to, I mean, CRISPR was one very important Nobel Prize winning step, but it was just one step.

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<v Mathew Gardner>There were many things that came before and things that followed.

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<v Mathew Gardner>So I think you could look at any sort of, of the broad segments the of the, the product areas and, and see that kind of long curve  to the narrative.

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<v Mathew Gardner>And I think it, it does take a long time.

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<v Mathew Gardner>The aspect of that that I think is, that we touched on a little bit, and I always love talking to James about these things, because he's so creative and seen everything, is I think if we look back at last year, Merck was first outta the gates with the, with the deal, right.

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<v Mathew Gardner>So if you, if you look at that Merck deal and you look at the sort of the cost per molecule that we're thinking about as a frame for the industry.

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<v Mathew Gardner>This is a redefining equation at the moment, and I think AI should push that down.

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<v Mathew Gardner>But at the moment, all it's led to is increased cost because they're all investing in compute power.

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<v Mathew Gardner>And so we haven't actually seen the dynamic change in the discovery model yet, and I think it's still in front of us somewhere.

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<v Simone Fishburn>We haven't done data centers on the podcast before, you know, and

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<v Jeff Cranmer>We, we haven't.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>I, I, I sense a return guest in the making here.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, Josh, I wanna bring you into the conversation.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>What's on your mind?

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<v Josh Berlin>Yeah.

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<v Josh Berlin>Uh, thank, thanks, Jeff.

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<v Josh Berlin>And, uh, first off, honored to share the stage with a good friends here.

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<v Josh Berlin>And, uh, you know, James and Ingrid have been co-hosting this reception with us for 12 years.

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<v Josh Berlin>Unbelievable how much has changed.

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<v Josh Berlin>But if you think about it, 12 years ago when we started this reception, this is kind of what I was thinking today when I was wandering around Union Square,   a beautiful day today.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

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<v Josh Berlin>And I look up and I see a billboard for Insilico Medicine.

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<v James Huang>Yeah.

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<v Josh Berlin>On Union Square, you know, um, and Insilico,

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Did, did Alex put it up himself?

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<v Josh Berlin>He, he, he might have climbed up there and, uh, put it up or had one of his, uh, AI agents do it.

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<v Josh Berlin>Um, but I think it really speaks to how much the industry has changed.

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<v Josh Berlin>And how much the China story has also changed over the last 12 years, even over the last year.

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<v Josh Berlin>Because Insilico was one of the companies that IPO'ed last year on Hong Kong very end of last year.

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<v Josh Berlin>And the Hong Kong Exchange actually has not been in a bear market.

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<v Josh Berlin>And a lot of folks here are now sort of thinking about, you know, are we getting out of a bear market here.

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<v Josh Berlin>But I, I think that, uh, you have some of these companies.

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<v Josh Berlin>I saw another one, one of these, uh, trucks, uh, electronic billboards driving around Union Square from GenScript.

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<v Josh Berlin>Mathew Gardner: Yep.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

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<v Josh Berlin>You know, and so it's like you have these companies that, um, I know James, you know, very well, um, but having a huge presence here this year at JP Morgan.

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<v Josh Berlin>And I felt like last year was really the first year that everyone sort of woke up to China.

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<v Josh Berlin>All of a sudden everyone was talking about it in the hallways.

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<v Josh Berlin>Whereas before it was only during you know some of the, um, sort of the BayHelix meeting and a few other meetings where that was sort of the normal thing.

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<v Josh Berlin>So it's just amazing how much things have changed.

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<v Josh Berlin>I think in one year.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Can I ask you guys a, a question about AI, right.

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<v Simone Fishburn>Um, I'm sorry to hijack your,

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<v Jeff Cranmer>That's fine.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>I do wanna talk about deal price points though after this.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>We have

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<v Simone Fishburn>All right.

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<v Jeff Cranmer>A few more minutes with these, uh, excellent gentlemen, but go for it.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So, you know, Josh talked about, um, how last year, sort of everyone woke up to China and this year I think there's a lot of questions about AI.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And, you know, I'm not sure which is the year.

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<v Simone Fishburn>I'm not sure that there's gonna be any one year that we say.

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<v Simone Fishburn>That was the year, right?

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<v Simone Fishburn>I got this one year, but, but you know, a couple of the conversations that I've had in the last few days, especially with pharma companies, is that as they bring in AI across the board, right, from discovery all the way through clinical or through I guess commercial, you know, what they find in terms of processes is that you you solve one part of a workflow with AI.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And now you've just created a bottleneck.

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<v Simone Fishburn>So let's say, you know, you're coming up with all these targets, but now the next part isn't actually optimized.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And so it's actually a huge dance and choreography.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And you know, that is a thing that I think is, you know, probably gonna be more prevalent in the large companies.

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<v Simone Fishburn>But you got, you know, you're in charge of small companies and I'm sort of wondering if that's a, how much you think that is going to be an issue.

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<v Simone Fishburn>How holistic people can be in their adoption of this.

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<v Simone Fishburn>And you know, as you create companies, what do you think, what are your expectations for them?

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<v James Huang>We, when we make investments in companies, we make sure that AI discovery is truly part of what they do, that's very important.

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<v James Huang>But, you know, coming back, um, to making an actual investment in AI company, we don't do that.

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<v James Huang>It's so interesting because I spent yesterday's, you know, like two of the firms I, I really, good meeting with yesterday, they make, these are tech backed type of, um, venture firm.

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<v James Huang>But they have tiptoed their way into biotech the last couple years.

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<v James Huang>But, you know, we look at most of their investments, they're all in AI.

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<v James Huang>It's so interesting because with what I learned from both of 'em were exactly the same thing, which is that they have made so much paper profit in AI.

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<v James Huang>B ut it's all on the tech side.

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<v James Huang>But on the biotech side nothing.

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<v James Huang>It's, and they were talking about truly an IRR comparison, right.

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<v James Huang>On the tech side, the IRRs that cost 200%, but on the biotech side, negative, it's fascinating.

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<v James Huang>Which actually tells you something about AI in our industry.

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<v James Huang>We truly need AI.

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<v James Huang>However, the problems we're trying to solve is so complex.

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<v James Huang>And like you said, the bottleneck actually as we learn from AI discovery into development, the biggest bottleneck, believe it or not, it's actually clinical trials.

00:15:39.738 --> 00:15:41.407
<v James Huang>It's taken longer than it's ever been.

00:15:42.006 --> 00:15:44.543
<v James Huang>And we truly need AI somehow to survive.

00:15:44.576 --> 00:15:44.809
<v Mathew Gardner>Say, yeah.

00:15:44.809 --> 00:15:47.078
<v Mathew Gardner>I'll, uh, I just am gonna jump right in there, James.

00:15:47.078 --> 00:16:01.025
<v Mathew Gardner>I think that's exactly right and I think I'll, I'm gonna offer to be club historian again, uh, because we should have been, I would argue a pretty sharp and pointy end of this now, by now with cancer data.

00:16:01.092 --> 00:16:03.895
<v Mathew Gardner>We've had the Cancer Genome Project for long enough.

00:16:03.895 --> 00:16:05.264
<v Mathew Gardner>I think it lives at Santa Cruz, right?

00:16:05.264 --> 00:16:10.101
<v Mathew Gardner>So we've had this kind of data accumulated for well over a decade already.

00:16:10.101 --> 00:16:16.207
<v Mathew Gardner>So going on 15 years, ASCO itself launched something called CancerLinQ many, many years ago.

00:16:16.207 --> 00:16:18.610
<v Mathew Gardner>I think it was at ASCO 2012 or 2013.

00:16:19.010 --> 00:16:28.620
<v Mathew Gardner>I think to James's exact point, it just proves how hard this is, even when you have a known universe of patients and outcomes and genomic profiles.

00:16:28.988 --> 00:16:35.226
<v Mathew Gardner>It's still extremely difficult to build the proof case, even when you can feed all that into your model.

00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.263
<v Mathew Gardner>So I think we still have great challenges right in front of us.

00:16:38.364 --> 00:16:50.308
<v Mathew Gardner>One of the things that I think is so exciting is what we've seen in sort of the discovery method evolving recently, the FDA taking some animal testing outta the equation and the tremendous leap in organoids.

00:16:50.408 --> 00:16:54.546
<v Mathew Gardner>You put those things together and the amount of screening you can do, goes way through the roof.

00:16:54.546 --> 00:16:58.017
<v Mathew Gardner>And I think that's a great application for all that high throughput computing.

00:16:58.517 --> 00:17:10.128
<v Jeff Cranmer>Well, we're, we're about to jump to the second segment in just a minute, but James, I did wanna get your take on comparative upfront payments, deal prices between West and East?

00:17:10.295 --> 00:17:11.096
<v James Huang>Sure, sure.

00:17:11.462 --> 00:17:16.300
<v James Huang>Um, if you take a cross look at the deals that have been done by big pharma with biotechs in China.

00:17:16.667 --> 00:17:26.511
<v James Huang>You will find majority of the deals are with these much more mature, publicly traded companies, they have platform and they, they're focusing on different modalities.

00:17:26.778 --> 00:17:29.615
<v James Huang>And the development package is extremely complete.

00:17:30.348 --> 00:17:34.787
<v James Huang>Right, so these are what I call low hanging fruit, and that's easy go through.

00:17:35.386 --> 00:17:38.457
<v James Huang>Then you start looking at the next tier down some of the deals.

00:17:39.023 --> 00:17:42.394
<v James Huang>Then you will notice that the upfront payment dropped significantly.

00:17:43.261 --> 00:18:05.717
<v James Huang>Now this is one of the reasons why I continue feel that if you invest in China versus you invest in the U.S., one of the biggest differences you will see is that the big pharma will continue to buy U.S. based companies, but they will not buy China based companies because they can pick up assets so much cheaper.

00:18:06.484 --> 00:18:11.589
<v James Huang>To the point where, as venture capitalists, we start to have to ask ourselves a question.

00:18:12.124 --> 00:18:20.465
<v James Huang>If I'm making an investment into an innovative US-based biotech company at a valuation that's say $50, $70 million bucks.

00:18:20.898 --> 00:18:32.877
<v James Huang>Yet I can pick up assets in China, at a with proof of concept in human, whether they're IIT studies or they're already in Phase I, at much lower valuation.

00:18:33.045 --> 00:18:36.048
<v James Huang>Now, that's what we're seeing at the, at the marketplace.

00:18:36.248 --> 00:18:49.394
<v James Huang>That the, the opportunity in China, from big pharma perspective, from investor perspective, you're seeing a lot of very interesting proof of concept already in human, at valuation is so much more reasonable.

00:18:49.661 --> 00:19:00.972
<v James Huang>And that's why I think for early stage investments with these innovative technology coming out of universities where entrepreneurs have come up with the valuation in the US is truly a challenge.

00:19:02.106 --> 00:19:03.174
<v Simone Fishburn>Can I add one point?

00:19:03.509 --> 00:19:04.009
<v Jeff Cranmer>Quickly.

00:19:06.178 --> 00:19:13.951
<v Simone Fishburn>So, um, you know, some of our conversations also have talked to the fact that when a farmer licenses from China, from a China company.

00:19:14.353 --> 00:19:18.089
<v Simone Fishburn>Very often, they obviously, the China company keeps the China rights, right.

00:19:18.289 --> 00:19:24.395
<v Simone Fishburn>Now it used to be that the pharmas would go in and they would get the molecule and they might even commercialize it and work on it there for China.

00:19:24.395 --> 00:19:33.238
<v Simone Fishburn>Now what we're sort of hearing is that there is a benefit to them, to the pharma in leaving the China company with the China rights.

00:19:33.538 --> 00:19:41.313
<v Simone Fishburn>'Cause that China company now will take the same molecule and it will, it will test it much faster in many new indications.

00:19:41.413 --> 00:19:50.422
<v Simone Fishburn>And so they're carrying on doing the learning, from you know the very fact that they've just licensed this molecule and left it in their hands as it were locally.

00:19:50.454 --> 00:19:52.057
<v Mathew Gardner>And that's how the AbbVie deal was today.

00:19:52.057 --> 00:19:52.657
<v Jeff Cranmer>Exactly right.

00:19:52.723 --> 00:19:54.792
<v Simone Fishburn>That is exactly how the AbbVie deal was today.

00:19:54.992 --> 00:20:02.701
<v James Huang>And also from big pharma perspective, people forget is the the pricing pressure within China for innovative drugs.

00:20:03.201 --> 00:20:07.205
<v James Huang>I mean, who the heck sells PD-1s at $5,000 bucks per patient per year.

00:20:07.838 --> 00:20:13.077
<v James Huang>You don't see that, that's just a such a small percentage of what we charge in the United States, right.

00:20:13.511 --> 00:20:25.490
<v James Huang>And so from big pharma perspective, if the, their partner can generate so much more data, proof of concept for them to think about, well now in the West what we should bet on makes a lot of sense, right.

00:20:26.290 --> 00:20:26.325
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah.

00:20:26.391 --> 00:20:28.559
<v Josh Berlin>I mean, James, do you think that's gonna ever change?

00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:34.766
<v Josh Berlin>You know, I mean you have China biotechs that pretty much have to go outside of China in order to get an ROI right?

00:20:34.766 --> 00:20:36.602
<v Josh Berlin>Because of the, the low pricing in China.

00:20:37.102 --> 00:20:37.736
<v James Huang>Very good.

00:20:37.836 --> 00:20:44.776
<v James Huang>So we've been spending since November talking a lot to the, the large domestic, Chinese, um, pharmas.

00:20:45.243 --> 00:20:55.220
<v James Huang>And there were so much assumption about the fact that if I do the, the pivotal study in China in Phase III, well I can go ahead and do a bridging study, come into the U.S. right?

00:20:55.554 --> 00:21:00.959
<v James Huang>I'm going to tell you under the new FDA leadership people better think long and hard.

00:21:01.626 --> 00:21:12.104
<v James Huang>I am not sure with this new leadership, what we assume just even 12 months ago is going to be the way going forward, okay.

00:21:12.503 --> 00:21:19.778
<v James Huang>And so because of that, the uncertainty and the headwind that's not produced with the new leadership, I'm much more cautious.

00:21:20.112 --> 00:21:33.424
<v James Huang>And I truly believe for China-based large companies, because of the financial resources they have, you will actually see them tiptoe their way to do these earlier clinical studies also in the United States.

00:21:33.959 --> 00:21:35.126
<v James Huang>Not just in China.

00:21:35.993 --> 00:21:48.573
<v Jeff Cranmer>Something tells me, uh, our Washington Editor and noted spy writer, uh, got through to you and, uh, convinced you to, uh, make one of his points when he couldn't be here today.

00:21:48.573 --> 00:21:50.741
<v Jeff Cranmer>All right, we're gonna leave it, leave it there.

00:21:50.776 --> 00:21:51.143
<v Jeff Cranmer>Matt.

00:21:51.143 --> 00:21:52.510
<v Jeff Cranmer>James, thank you so much.

00:21:52.510 --> 00:22:02.354
<v Jeff Cranmer>We're gonna take a quick break, and you'll get to hear at least listeners  out there we'll get to hear about our upcoming East-West Summit in Seoul.

00:22:02.820 --> 00:22:03.488
<v Jeff Cranmer>Thanks gentlemen.

00:22:03.989 --> 00:22:04.388
<v Simone Fishburn>Thank you.

00:22:04.388 --> 00:22:04.890
<v Simone Fishburn>That was great.

00:22:08.226 --> 00:22:12.897
<v Alanna Farro>BioCentury This Week is brought to you by The 5th East-West Biopharma Summit in South Korea.

00:22:16.535 --> 00:22:23.974
<v Alanna Farro>An arc of innovation is emerging across Asia, and Western biopharma leaders are taking note-from cross-border deals to newcos.

00:22:24.276 --> 00:22:30.882
<v Alanna Farro>In March, 2026, The 5th BioCentury-BayHelix East-West BioPharma Summit visits South Korea for the first time.

00:22:31.383 --> 00:22:35.153
<v Alanna Farro>Meet the biopharma leaders putting Korea innovation on the global map.

00:22:35.586 --> 00:22:38.957
<v Alanna Farro>Learn why Korea has become a clinical trial in manufacturing hub.

00:22:39.324 --> 00:22:42.760
<v Alanna Farro>Discover if Korea is the next hotspot for NewCo formation.

00:22:43.060 --> 00:22:47.398
<v Alanna Farro>Plus, meet biopharma innovators from India to Singapore, to China and Japan.

00:22:47.865 --> 00:22:50.434
<v Alanna Farro>Register now at BioCenturyEastWest.com.

00:22:56.540 --> 00:22:58.210
<v Jeff Cranmer>Okay, we are back.

00:22:58.242 --> 00:23:01.246
<v Jeff Cranmer>And as you heard just then, BioCentury's.

00:23:01.846 --> 00:23:03.815
<v Jeff Cranmer>East-West Summit coming up in Seoul.

00:23:03.815 --> 00:23:05.483
<v Jeff Cranmer>Josh, you wanna give it a quick plug?

00:23:05.784 --> 00:23:06.183
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah.

00:23:06.183 --> 00:23:07.685
<v Josh Berlin>March 9th to 11th.

00:23:07.719 --> 00:23:15.326
<v Josh Berlin>Um, you know, we really have been out to Korea a few times over the last few years, really seeing some interesting companies and we'd love to have you.

00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:18.396
<v Josh Berlin>All come out and see Korea for yourself.

00:23:18.663 --> 00:23:23.268
<v Josh Berlin>Also see a lot of great companies from the region, including Japan and China.

00:23:23.268 --> 00:23:26.471
<v Josh Berlin>So, uh, please check it out BioCenturyEastWest.com

00:23:26.904 --> 00:23:37.449
<v Jeff Cranmer>And we are almost sold out of presenting company slots, but there are plenty of room for more delegates, especially aspiring karaoke singers, apparently that's a thing.

00:23:37.816 --> 00:23:40.786
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, but of course in Korea it's noraebang from what I understand.

00:23:41.787 --> 00:23:51.328
<v Jeff Cranmer>Okay, well now we have, Ingrid has arrived after battling the Waymo's and the Uber drivers and the street cars of San Francisco.

00:23:51.529 --> 00:23:53.832
<v Jeff Cranmer>Ingrid, of course, from Maytech Global.

00:23:53.865 --> 00:23:58.804
<v Jeff Cranmer>A long time, host of this meeting along with James and, and BioCentury.

00:23:59.270 --> 00:24:04.910
<v Jeff Cranmer>And Ting has been waiting patiently, jet lagged, but still standing.

00:24:04.942 --> 00:24:11.282
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, we're gonna turn to the public market outlook, which Ingrid has been falling closely for a very long time.

00:24:11.282 --> 00:24:15.686
<v Jeff Cranmer>Ingrid, what's your outlook for this year in the public markets, in biotech?

00:24:16.855 --> 00:24:19.523
<v Ingrid Yin>Yeah, to talk about this year.

00:24:19.857 --> 00:24:28.532
<v Ingrid Yin>We can't miss what happened in the past several years, and there was certainly a winter period in the healthcare sector.

00:24:29.201 --> 00:24:37.075
<v Ingrid Yin>But I think we start to see the great thaw of, you know, ice age starting second half last year.

00:24:37.342 --> 00:24:53.424
<v Ingrid Yin>And you start to see, you know, investor coming back'cause you know, the sectors well positioned and, a lot of companies went from hype face and to really starting to deliver operation excellence.

00:24:53.858 --> 00:25:06.971
<v Ingrid Yin>And just from today's pre-announcement and guidance for the year from all the companies that presented at JP Morgan conference and the overall tone is very positive.

00:25:07.439 --> 00:25:07.506
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:25:07.905 --> 00:25:17.516
<v Ingrid Yin>A lot of companies, you know pre-announce really good result and then have really good above consensus, you know, guidance for the year.

00:25:18.282 --> 00:25:24.021
<v Simone Fishburn>Ingrid, let me ask you, so one of the big questions, of course, is how sustainable this is.

00:25:24.422 --> 00:25:30.528
<v Simone Fishburn>And you know, for quite a while now BioCentury has been writing, we really think we're coming out of the woods now.

00:25:30.528 --> 00:25:32.329
<v Simone Fishburn>And, and you know, it sort of sputters out.

00:25:32.329 --> 00:25:39.069
<v Simone Fishburn>And so one is what is the basis of the feeling that this is more sustainable than last time?

00:25:39.436 --> 00:25:47.878
<v Simone Fishburn>And the second is, how vulnerable is this to macro effects like an AI bubble bursting and the whole market going down.

00:25:47.878 --> 00:25:49.713
<v Simone Fishburn>So can you talk a little bit about that?

00:25:51.082 --> 00:25:51.715
<v Ingrid Yin>yes.

00:25:52.049 --> 00:26:02.861
<v Ingrid Yin>first of all, I think despite the you know, capital raising difficulties in the past several years, despite some stock price corrections.

00:26:03.394 --> 00:26:12.237
<v Ingrid Yin>innovations continue to happen and, all these healthcare companies, they didn't stop you know, pushing forward, you know, what they're working on.

00:26:12.770 --> 00:26:32.757
<v Ingrid Yin>So I think in 2020 and 2021, there was a lot of excitement in the healthcare sector, you know, vaccines and all these products that's dealing with COVID that so much capital went into this sector and so many companies got built.

00:26:33.325 --> 00:26:40.731
<v Ingrid Yin>But I, I do think that  bubble you know, that went away and now we're standing at a much more solid ground.

00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:48.940
<v Ingrid Yin>And, talking about AI, I really don't believe, you know, we as Maytech as a firm, we don't believe it's a bubble.

00:26:49.941 --> 00:26:58.717
<v Ingrid Yin>And we do see it's happening in a big way, the productivity efficiency in the healthcare sector.

00:26:59.250 --> 00:27:03.087
<v Ingrid Yin>I'm sure you've seen the announcement by Lilly and Nvidia today.

00:27:04.122 --> 00:27:14.332
<v Ingrid Yin>And they're putting in $1 billion into this the lab in Bay Area   to use AI to help drug discovery.

00:27:15.366 --> 00:27:28.246
<v Ingrid Yin>So that tells you with such a big number of capital involved, you know, they really went from pilot phase testing AI, how to do drug development and all that.

00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:32.384
<v Ingrid Yin>And it's becoming real program going forward.

00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:33.917
<v Ingrid Yin>I mean, it's for next five years.

00:27:34.219 --> 00:27:36.688
<v Ingrid Yin>We'll find out, uh, as this progress.

00:27:37.021 --> 00:27:43.761
<v Ingrid Yin>But this is a very big important, I would say leading indicator for the space.

00:27:44.194 --> 00:27:48.700
<v Ingrid Yin>I think it's technology is going to help, healthcare tremendously.

00:27:49.299 --> 00:27:50.969
<v Ingrid Yin>I mean, it's in every country.

00:27:51.169 --> 00:28:01.546
<v Ingrid Yin>I don't know if you guys read, the article on New York Times talking about BABA's AI model you know AI imaging help to detect pancreatic cancer.

00:28:01.945 --> 00:28:03.580
<v Ingrid Yin>That's on the medical device side.

00:28:03.981 --> 00:28:21.231
<v Ingrid Yin>And you see on the pharma biotech side, there's also innovations in diagnostics, and genetic sequencing, and also AI has been applied to areas like manufacturing.

00:28:21.231 --> 00:28:30.674
<v Ingrid Yin>There's also digital twin is helping you know healthcare industry build hospitals and manufacturing facilities way faster.

00:28:31.409 --> 00:28:45.723
<v Ingrid Yin>So I really think, we went through the tough period, but then all the innovations and the solid fundamentals  will push the healthcare sector perform better, and I do believe it's sustainable.

00:28:46.590 --> 00:28:47.157
<v Jeff Cranmer>Excellent.

00:28:47.325 --> 00:28:52.564
<v Jeff Cranmer>Well, I wanna bring Ting into the conversation now and get the perspective from Shanghai.

00:28:52.564 --> 00:28:56.800
<v Jeff Cranmer>And Ting of course is partner at DLA Piper.

00:28:57.669 --> 00:28:58.569
<v Ting Xiao>Hello everyone.

00:28:59.037 --> 00:29:03.007
<v Ting Xiao>DLA Piper is a law firm for those who does not know this name.

00:29:03.374 --> 00:29:09.146
<v Ting Xiao>And so I'm here as a lawyer, but then also as a former life science scientist.

00:29:09.446 --> 00:29:19.124
<v Ting Xiao>I was a research technician at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and also I was working at the Princess Margaret Hospital in Canada.

00:29:19.324 --> 00:29:32.202
<v Ting Xiao>So I want to bring in some of there, because I hearing all the things about Island AI, all the things of how that were happening in the lab, owning, on my research bench to the hospitals, right.

00:29:32.436 --> 00:29:38.977
<v Ting Xiao>So first of all, I agree with Ingrid about the sustainability about this industry.

00:29:39.210 --> 00:29:41.880
<v Ting Xiao>Now I'm putting on my lawyer's hat.

00:29:42.212 --> 00:29:44.548
<v Ting Xiao>Because why is that sustainable?

00:29:44.548 --> 00:29:46.250
<v Ting Xiao>We need to look at the policies.

00:29:46.651 --> 00:29:52.656
<v Ting Xiao>When you look at a government regulations, to see where is the direction's going.

00:29:52.990 --> 00:29:57.194
<v Ting Xiao>That's what we call the tailwind in American's language, right.

00:29:57.494 --> 00:30:09.507
<v Ting Xiao>In China, before we all heard about Notorious VBP, which is the centralized procurement, but then last year, China pro, a commercial insurance catalog.

00:30:09.941 --> 00:30:16.181
<v Ting Xiao>As you may already know, that is aimed to incentivize innovations.

00:30:16.413 --> 00:30:21.952
<v Ting Xiao>Already more than a dozen  patented products already in the catalog.

00:30:22.252 --> 00:30:27.192
<v Ting Xiao>And then this is a signal also sent from the Chinese government to their market.

00:30:27.592 --> 00:30:34.632
<v Ting Xiao>China is not only a generic market, actually, we also value innovation, that's one part.

00:30:34.731 --> 00:30:35.666
<v Ting Xiao>And then also.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:43.842
<v Ting Xiao>With older patent term extension, regulatory exclusivity coming up in China, not in some of the European jurisdictions.

00:30:44.241 --> 00:30:50.515
<v Ting Xiao>In China that's actually another signal of sent by the Chinese government, we value innovation.

00:30:50.515 --> 00:30:52.584
<v Ting Xiao>Now, it's not all about generic.

00:30:53.050 --> 00:30:57.755
<v Ting Xiao>That's how older innovations are taking place in China.

00:30:57.855 --> 00:31:08.365
<v Ting Xiao>And then another thing is that Chinese government has spent quite some money through various mechanisms including state owned enterprise.

00:31:08.365 --> 00:31:10.401
<v Ting Xiao>They found a PE fund.

00:31:10.734 --> 00:31:17.775
<v Ting Xiao>They have their venture capital to inject into the innovator companies in China.

00:31:17.909 --> 00:31:28.486
<v Ting Xiao>And then they're industrial parks in China that are funded by the Chinese government, that's a lot of innovations are coming from those incubations.

00:31:28.819 --> 00:31:43.768
<v Ting Xiao>Overall I'm optimistic, not because I was a life science scientist, I hope this industry goes for best because I saw the policies and then regulations and then also general government fundings going into this industry in China overall.

00:31:44.301 --> 00:31:46.604
<v Ting Xiao>That's a very long talk for this simple question.

00:31:47.105 --> 00:31:47.939
<v Jeff Cranmer>All good, Josh?

00:31:48.573 --> 00:31:50.208
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah, I mean, I think it's, that's an interesting Ting.

00:31:50.208 --> 00:31:53.111
<v Josh Berlin>I mean, we've been following the, the China market for a long time.

00:31:53.111 --> 00:32:00.718
<v Josh Berlin>And you know it wasn't too long ago that the regulatory framework was actually not all that  generous to innovators.

00:32:00.718 --> 00:32:07.191
<v Josh Berlin>So, I mean, how much of this do you think, the changes like the, you mentioned the, um,  you know, some of the ip ip, uh, changes.

00:32:07.191 --> 00:32:17.402
<v Josh Berlin>I mean, how much is that, sort of lobbying by the China biotechs now that wanna have protection for their products to go global essentially, so things like data exclusivity?

00:32:18.603 --> 00:32:19.170
<v Ting Xiao>Uh, yes.

00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:20.371
<v Ting Xiao>That's a very good question.

00:32:20.538 --> 00:32:32.884
<v Ting Xiao>So basically you can imagine before it's MNCs in China, trying to lobby for regulatory exclusivity and then PTEs, and then that's the minority group out of China's markets.

00:32:33.151 --> 00:32:38.756
<v Ting Xiao>But then nowadays biotech and biopharmas they are increasingly doing that.

00:32:38.789 --> 00:32:42.693
<v Ting Xiao>And another, it's not about lobbying, it's about Chinese government.

00:32:42.993 --> 00:32:57.976
<v Ting Xiao>They want to use innovations to encourage the industries they want to do so because there are thousand and hundreds of innovator biotechs in China already, that's already there.

00:32:58.076 --> 00:33:01.980
<v Ting Xiao>They want to use that to incentivize innovations.

00:33:02.180 --> 00:33:06.284
<v Ting Xiao>And then there are so many generics, there are way more generics in China.

00:33:06.451 --> 00:33:13.825
<v Ting Xiao>They want to use this method to help incentivize transfer those generics to the innovators.

00:33:14.092 --> 00:33:15.893
<v Ting Xiao>So that's all the considerations.

00:33:15.993 --> 00:33:16.827
<v Ting Xiao>Yeah, go ahead.

00:33:16.961 --> 00:33:20.698
<v Simone Fishburn>I actually wanna jump in and I'm gonna bring in my colleagues, Josh.

00:33:20.698 --> 00:33:21.031
<v Josh Berlin>Josh.

00:33:21.231 --> 00:33:22.299
<v Simone Fishburn>I think I do know you.

00:33:22.866 --> 00:33:24.201
<v Simone Fishburn>I've met you Josh.

00:33:25.135 --> 00:33:26.237
<v Simone Fishburn>Pretty sure you are Josh, right?

00:33:26.636 --> 00:33:27.505
<v Simone Fishburn>Josh and then Jeff.

00:33:27.505 --> 00:33:28.373
<v Josh Berlin>It's been a long, long day.

00:33:28.638 --> 00:33:29.740
<v Simone Fishburn>It's been, it's, it's, yeah.

00:33:29.740 --> 00:33:31.241
<v Simone Fishburn>I'm only like, not even one glass in

00:33:31.241 --> 00:33:32.009
<v Jeff Cranmer>Only day one..

00:33:32.076 --> 00:33:32.143
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:33:32.143 --> 00:33:32.175
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:33:32.410 --> 00:33:33.877
<v Simone Fishburn>Only day one and not even one glass in.

00:33:33.877 --> 00:33:34.211
<v Simone Fishburn>Okay.

00:33:34.378 --> 00:33:35.946
<v Simone Fishburn>So I wanna bring in Josh and Jeff because.

00:33:36.681 --> 00:33:41.519
<v Simone Fishburn>You know, I just don't want  conversation only about China, especially in light of the fact it's the East-West conference, right.

00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:41.652
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah, true.

00:33:41.719 --> 00:33:47.157
<v Simone Fishburn>And we are, we are very much focused on where's the next hotbed of innovation gonna come from.

00:33:47.191 --> 00:33:47.290
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:33:47.525 --> 00:33:50.461
<v Simone Fishburn>I talked earlier about our conference that you're talking about in South Korea.

00:33:50.694 --> 00:33:52.497
<v Simone Fishburn>So Jeff, you've done a piece in Japan.

00:33:52.497 --> 00:33:54.198
<v Simone Fishburn>You previously did one on Singapore.

00:33:54.198 --> 00:33:54.298
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:33:54.632 --> 00:33:58.301
<v Simone Fishburn>I know you're very networked and talking to a lot of people in various Asia countries.

00:33:58.469 --> 00:34:04.608
<v Simone Fishburn>Tell me what you are seeing now in terms of the rise of innovation and even of those markets in China.

00:34:04.608 --> 00:34:07.178
<v Simone Fishburn>And, and Josh, I know you're a big expert there, maybe weigh in as well.

00:34:07.545 --> 00:34:07.744
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:34:07.744 --> 00:34:14.485
<v Jeff Cranmer>Well, uh, Japan, I, I guess I'll touch on that as, uh, that's the most, well, almost the most recent story I wrote.

00:34:14.751 --> 00:34:16.887
<v Jeff Cranmer>Um, uh, it's quite,

00:34:16.887 --> 00:34:18.822
<v Simone Fishburn>It's the most recent story on Japan that you wrote.

00:34:18.822 --> 00:34:19.423
<v Simone Fishburn>Let's put it..

00:34:19.423 --> 00:34:19.891
<v Jeff Cranmer>That is true.

00:34:19.891 --> 00:34:22.025
<v Jeff Cranmer>And it, and it was a year and a half in the making.

00:34:22.527 --> 00:34:22.793
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:34:22.793 --> 00:34:22.860
<v Simone Fishburn>Yeah.

00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:22.994
<v Simone Fishburn>That's..

00:34:23.094 --> 00:34:30.001
<v Jeff Cranmer>As, as my, uh, fellow Executive Editor, Selina Koch, who's in the audience, will tell you, Japan's a really interesting story.

00:34:30.001 --> 00:34:33.737
<v Jeff Cranmer>Obviously, we know about all the Nobel prizes, we know about the innovation.

00:34:34.271 --> 00:34:44.181
<v Jeff Cranmer>Japan has probably produced the second most blockbusters out of any country in the world behind the U.S., I'm sure China's looking to change that soon.

00:34:44.548 --> 00:34:49.820
<v Jeff Cranmer>In fact, all of those blockbusters out of Japan came from Japanese pharma, not from biotech.

00:34:49.853 --> 00:35:00.498
<v Jeff Cranmer>And so there's been this biotech scene in Japan for a long time now, but you never really hear about flashy venture rounds or big IPOs.

00:35:01.132 --> 00:35:07.371
<v Jeff Cranmer>It's almost like these companies have been set up, not necessarily to fail, but not to succeed.

00:35:07.371 --> 00:35:18.081
<v Jeff Cranmer>And now we're seeing, uh, thanks to government incentives including a two for one matching program, to bring in VCs not only from Japan, but also around the world.

00:35:18.382 --> 00:35:24.054
<v Jeff Cranmer>We're seeing kind of a buzz of activity and Japan's a little bit of a different nut.

00:35:24.255 --> 00:35:35.266
<v Jeff Cranmer>There's not as much of that gung-ho, cowboy entrepreneurial spirit, I think that you see in China or maybe even Singapore, Korea for sure.

00:35:35.500 --> 00:35:39.436
<v Jeff Cranmer>I think, you know, years and years of working for the big company.

00:35:39.836 --> 00:35:45.809
<v Jeff Cranmer>But now younger entrepreneurs in Japan are looking over their shoulders and are like, why can't we do that too?

00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Jeff Cranmer>And so we're seeing a wave of VCs, like AN Ventures, led by Ken Horne, F-Prime, going to Japan.

00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.922
<v Jeff Cranmer>And what they're doing is they're taking.

00:35:58.121 --> 00:36:12.469
<v Jeff Cranmer>Japanese innovation, Japanese R&D teams, which by the way, this shocked me, are cheaper than in China and marrying that with U.S. venture money, U.S. management teams.

00:36:12.469 --> 00:36:17.875
<v Jeff Cranmer>And so we're going to start seeing some of these hybrid cross border companies coming out of Japan.

00:36:17.875 --> 00:36:18.608
<v Jeff Cranmer>Josh, do you wanna speak to Korea?

00:36:18.608 --> 00:36:26.184
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah, I was gonna say, uh, Jeff, the other thing, you know, we were out at BioJapan, in Yokohama in October, and I just thought there was a lot of energy out there.

00:36:26.184 --> 00:36:29.920
<v Josh Berlin>And a lot of discussion about this double matching program.

00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:36.594
<v Josh Berlin>Which I also hear other countries are now looking at this as a potential model, but the, you know, the, yeah.

00:36:36.726 --> 00:36:39.096
<v Simone Fishburn>Can you just elaborate on that was something I wanted to ask you.

00:36:39.297 --> 00:36:41.831
<v Simone Fishburn>To what degree is this sort of, can I use the word viral?

00:36:41.965 --> 00:36:51.375
<v Simone Fishburn>To what degree is this one country like looking at the mechanisms of another and you know, this being Japan's being sort of on first year, let's say for a long while.

00:36:51.409 --> 00:36:51.809
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah very much

00:36:51.809 --> 00:36:52.376
<v Simone Fishburn>So how much is that happening?

00:36:52.409 --> 00:37:04.956
<v Josh Berlin>I think it's, I think it's interesting because, you know, um, like Ting was just talking about, um, you know, some IP reforms that happened in China, and a lot of that was based off of, um, what was done here in the US with data exclusivity, for instance.

00:37:05.255 --> 00:37:08.125
<v Josh Berlin>So I think traditionally folks have looked to the U.S.

00:37:08.492 --> 00:37:13.130
<v Josh Berlin>for regulatory pathways that they might be able to adopt for their own countries.

00:37:13.130 --> 00:37:17.969
<v Josh Berlin>And I, I find it interesting now that folks are looking at Japan as a potential model.

00:37:18.235 --> 00:37:31.181
<v Josh Berlin>You know this is a program that the Japanese government has set up to have essentially so if you're at accredited VC, investing in an accredited program, the government will come in and essentially double match it.

00:37:31.181 --> 00:37:36.621
<v Josh Berlin>So if you've invested $20 million in the project, the government will come in and pay 40 million.

00:37:36.653 --> 00:37:41.559
<v Josh Berlin>And it's, it's essentially a grant, it's non-dilutive, and that's generating a lot of interest.

00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:47.231
<v Josh Berlin>And it's not just Japanese VCs, it's also the opportunity for U.S. or European VCs.

00:37:47.231 --> 00:37:47.331
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:37:47.565 --> 00:37:50.166
<v Josh Berlin>Like EQT is one of the ones that's accredited for instance.

00:37:50.166 --> 00:37:51.302
<v Josh Berlin>and, sorry, let me just jump in there.

00:37:51.302 --> 00:37:53.771
<v Josh Berlin>And then you are saying that the actual labor is cheaper.

00:37:53.971 --> 00:37:54.137
<v Jeff Cranmer>Yeah.

00:37:54.137 --> 00:37:57.407
<v Simone Fishburn>So you get, you know, for your 20 million, you get what,

00:37:57.407 --> 00:37:58.541
<v Josh Berlin>You get more bang for the buck.

00:37:58.541 --> 00:37:59.744
<v Josh Berlin>get, you get a lot more.

00:37:59.744 --> 00:38:07.117
<v Josh Berlin>And so what is your feeling about the quality of the work that's getting done, and the you know ability to construct strategies.

00:38:07.117 --> 00:38:15.693
<v Josh Berlin>And are they sort of bringing in Western kind of advisors and so on to help them think about what, what would a path to the clinic look like and so on?

00:38:16.193 --> 00:38:17.260
<v Josh Berlin>Yeah, I, I, think so.

00:38:17.260 --> 00:38:29.873
<v Josh Berlin>I mean, uh, as Jeff mentioned, um, you know for many years I think folks have wondered why there has not been a biotech industry to speak of in Japan, despite the great science, despite, you know some of these great Japanese pharma.

00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:31.876
<v Josh Berlin>It just hasn't, hasn't happened.

00:38:31.909 --> 00:38:33.943
<v Josh Berlin>Um, and again we'll see.

00:38:34.010 --> 00:38:44.889
<v Josh Berlin>No one has a crystal ball, but I got the feeling that folks are now thinking things are gonna change with new funds, like Ken Horne's fund that Jeff mentioned in this matching program.

00:38:45.056 --> 00:38:49.126
<v Josh Berlin>I couldn't believe how many, uh, Western VCs were out BioJapan this year.

00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:50.927
<v Simone Fishburn>So Jeff is gonna cut us off in a minute.

00:38:51.027 --> 00:38:53.297
<v Simone Fishburn>So, um, let me just ask you, what about Korea?

00:38:53.331 --> 00:38:56.132
<v Simone Fishburn>Because their energy is not the problem, let's believe that.

00:38:56.166 --> 00:38:58.235
<v Josh Berlin>Energy is not a, a problem.

00:38:58.268 --> 00:39:12.182
<v Josh Berlin>Uh, and, there's, you know, quite a few up and coming Korea entrepreneurs, folks like SJ at Orum Therapeutics, who's on our regional host committee for our East-West Summit that we're taking out to, uh, Seoul in March.

00:39:12.382 --> 00:39:15.920
<v Josh Berlin>There's just a lot of entrepreneurial spirit.

00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:21.559
<v Josh Berlin>And, in Korea,  it's a small market, so folks have to think about going global from day one.

00:39:22.226 --> 00:39:27.297
<v Josh Berlin>And I know Ingrid, I know you've, invested in Korea as well, so it's,  a story, I think it's worth watching.

00:39:28.032 --> 00:39:30.034
<v Ingrid Yin>Yeah, it, it's really interesting.

00:39:30.134 --> 00:39:34.204
<v Ingrid Yin>Almost 20 years ago I was looking at Asia healthcare.

00:39:34.237 --> 00:39:43.146
<v Ingrid Yin>I mean Japan, Korea, and China, even I mean Southeast Asia and looking for opportunities.

00:39:43.614 --> 00:40:02.532
<v Ingrid Yin>I remember back then, the ranking in terms of innovation in pharma, biotech industry, it's US Europe, leading, Japan is the next, Korea is after, and then China is you know behind Japan, and Korea.

00:40:03.233 --> 00:40:10.074
<v Ingrid Yin>But I do think there are so many things happened in China at very, very fast pace.

00:40:10.740 --> 00:40:16.213
<v Ingrid Yin>I mean there are many policy, positive policy changes that Ting talked about.

00:40:16.713 --> 00:40:30.827
<v Ingrid Yin>And there's things like, you know, Hong Kong market open to pre-revenue, biotech companies that generated a lot of enthusiasm and also a lot of capital poured into here.

00:40:31.228 --> 00:40:40.538
<v Ingrid Yin>And I do think Korean is still, I mean Korean pharma companies it's still a driving force in more innovations.

00:40:40.905 --> 00:40:43.773
<v Ingrid Yin>I mean, Celltrion is, you know, Samsung biologics.

00:40:44.108 --> 00:40:47.677
<v Ingrid Yin>These are very, they're excellent in CMO.

00:40:48.311 --> 00:40:58.856
<v Ingrid Yin>And you know there are thousands of pharma companies, M&A among Korean companies doesn't happen as often as those in the Western countries.

00:40:59.389 --> 00:41:01.592
<v Ingrid Yin>So that's you know, one of the reason.

00:41:01.958 --> 00:41:12.036
<v Ingrid Yin>So there are certain conservative practices in the capital market, in the venture world, I would say slow down certain countries.

00:41:12.036 --> 00:41:24.581
<v Ingrid Yin>But you know, it's funny'cause we look, we spend a lot of time thinking looking at AI, you know, in the AI world it's two countries really competing it's US and China.

00:41:24.882 --> 00:41:25.014
<v Jeff Cranmer>Mm-hmm.

00:41:25.349 --> 00:41:28.184
<v Ingrid Yin>Um, but I do think in healthcare it's global.

00:41:28.485 --> 00:41:33.657
<v Ingrid Yin>Every you know, country is contributing, their strengths into the ecosystem.

00:41:33.657 --> 00:41:35.025
<v Jeff Cranmer>We're about at time.

00:41:35.025 --> 00:41:36.193
<v Jeff Cranmer>Sorry to jump in there.

00:41:36.193 --> 00:41:39.230
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, uh, Ting was nodding at a few of the points you were making.

00:41:39.230 --> 00:41:44.101
<v Jeff Cranmer>So Ting, do you wanna give us, maybe a final thought before we head to the bar and enjoy a little wine?

00:41:44.101 --> 00:41:44.668
<v Ting Xiao>Yeah, sure.

00:41:44.668 --> 00:41:51.541
<v Ting Xiao>I'm not going to drag it along, so I just want to remind what is life science innovations, actually?

00:41:51.541 --> 00:41:52.809
<v Ting Xiao>What's the source of that?

00:41:52.809 --> 00:41:55.778
<v Ting Xiao>I think in my view, it is people, it's human.

00:41:56.012 --> 00:42:00.384
<v Ting Xiao>Before AI taking place, a lot of innovation that's still driven by people.

00:42:00.550 --> 00:42:06.923
<v Ting Xiao>So we think about that and then that will drive which market actually has the most potential.

00:42:07.157 --> 00:42:07.557
<v Ting Xiao>Okay.

00:42:07.858 --> 00:42:08.324
<v Ting Xiao>my final thoughts.

00:42:08.324 --> 00:42:08.425
<v Ting Xiao>Hey,

00:42:08.425 --> 00:42:09.659
<v Jeff Cranmer>Hey, that's a great way to end it.

00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:18.101
<v Jeff Cranmer>Alright, thank you to everyone in the audience for listening, thanks to our listeners at home, if you like what you're hearing, like, subscribe.

00:42:18.135 --> 00:42:22.907
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, I'm trying to get my kids to teach me the right way to get people inspired to click.

00:42:23.007 --> 00:42:23.740
<v Jeff Cranmer>I don't know, Simone.

00:42:23.907 --> 00:42:24.574
<v Simone Fishburn>Skibidi.

00:42:24.708 --> 00:42:26.643
<v Jeff Cranmer>Skibidi, skibidi toilets.

00:42:26.744 --> 00:42:28.978
<v Jeff Cranmer>I, I, no, we're, we're gonna have to cut that, I think.

00:42:29.346 --> 00:42:38.454
<v Jeff Cranmer>Uh, okay and if you're interested in Korea, we have a great program at the Global IR Meeting, which will be just down the hall tomorrow.

00:42:38.688 --> 00:42:50.934
<v Jeff Cranmer>And, We'll have, a few great guests and one of them is claiming that they're going to explain how the Korean K-pop band model can save Korean biotech.

00:42:51.367 --> 00:42:53.137
<v Jeff Cranmer>All right, we'll leave it at that.

00:42:53.637 --> 00:42:54.672
<v Jeff Cranmer>Thank you so much.

00:42:54.704 --> 00:42:55.672
<v Jeff Cranmer>We'll be back next week.

00:43:00.210 --> 00:43:04.047
<v Jeff>Kendall Square Orchestra provides the music for BioCentury This Week.

00:43:04.347 --> 00:43:17.027
<v Jeff>The group connects science and technology professionals and other members of the greater Boston community to collaborate, innovate, and inspire through music while supporting causes related to health care and education.