The Community Expert: The REAL reason why we're lonely and can't make friends - Charles Vogl

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Big Success podcast, cutting edge conversations on business and personal success, as well as how to level up.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's your host, number one business coach in the world, brad Shokers.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I just had my mind blown.

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<v Speaker 2>Charles Vogel, this is where I met him.

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<v Speaker 2>Out of communities, brand communities, I'd suggest reading us.

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<v Speaker 2>The guy is a famous movie maker, a charity worker, peace core, all that stuff but now his stuff on brands.

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<v Speaker 2>The guy works with the US Army, twitch, google, you name it.

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<v Speaker 2>He's working with all these massive companies, medical doctors, how communities impact and some of the stats he just gave us around people and relationships and how they can impact your growth, your profitability, just your life in general.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine but like if you think that 20,000 Google managers go through his training on brand, on community building and working with people, that's gonna blame mine.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, the first five minutes he blew my mind just with friendship statistics and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Dive right in.

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<v Speaker 2>Charles Vogel, he's our man today on the Big Success podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>So, charles, my friend, how do you define success?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's a good question.

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<v Speaker 3>At this point in my life, brad, I'm seeing that success as the scale and the level of difference I can make for people, given my talents and skills.

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<v Speaker 3>At this point in my life, as you know, it's where we are now.

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<v Speaker 3>It took a lot of years, literally decades and a lot of failures, and so how we can contribute is radically different, and I'm trying to be really clear with these skills and experiences, what will make a difference for others?

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<v Speaker 3>How?

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<v Speaker 2>do you feel that changed over time?

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<v Speaker 2>Like I know, even you're very clear in all your books about your story and you talk about that a lot in your events.

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<v Speaker 2>How did success start for you?

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<v Speaker 2>What was your definition early on and how did it evolve to this new definition?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I was normal in that for many, many years.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to distinguish myself as worthy in the world by accomplishing things others admired, and I spent at least 20 years doing that, at least in several fields it turns out on more than one continent.

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<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't simply just about impressing others, I mean and there are many, many ways to do that, but I wanted to show that I was someone who had merit to get things done, could do things that certainly at least look generous if not in fact weren't so.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that I served in the US Peace Corps in Zambia when I was in my 20s.

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<v Speaker 3>I knew I could make a difference volunteering in the United States, but I went to the just to sub-Saharan Africa, where I would be challenged physically and mentally and spiritually and culturally, and I'm certain part of that was just proving that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I was tough enough to do things others couldn't do part of it.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a reason I was in the Peace Corps, not somewhere else.

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<v Speaker 3>But the point is there's a lot of effort to show that I could do extraordinary things.

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<v Speaker 2>So, when you think about the transition of a time, do you think it was a gradual shift to this definition, or was it just one day you got like you know what?

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<v Speaker 2>No, this is the way to go.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's a couple layers to that.

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<v Speaker 3>I think at one point I got to a point where I understood look, I have enough accolades and however I wanted them, that I didn't need anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>And I remember thinking and I still think it occasionally look, if I can't impress you, if you're not impressed by what I've done or what I do or what, then I'm not going to impress you, you're just looking for something else.

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<v Speaker 3>And fair enough.

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<v Speaker 3>My point is is more is not better.

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<v Speaker 3>And that became a silly game.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, I know it's very easy to say this on this side of that mountain, right, but at least I could give up all the energy I was spending on that.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the other thing is as I get older no surprise I've learned that the things that really matter are the people in my life, their welfare, their relationship to me, how they're growing, how we're making a difference for others to grow.

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<v Speaker 3>And if I have success in any other way, there is my life.

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<v Speaker 3>Like the easiest one to measure is money, another one is prestige, another one is material goods, and you and I have talked about this.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, fair enough, you can try to win that game.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe you will win that game.

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<v Speaker 3>Good luck on that.

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<v Speaker 3>But if your family isn't there for you, if they can't call upon you, if on a cold Friday night there's nobody to share a soup with you, if when you stand on stage there's nobody to hug you when you come off stage, then let me tell you it's an empty and wasted life as far as I'm concerned.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the running for material.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I'm going to beat Warren Buffett or Jeff Bezos at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>I, like you, know the old enough is enough thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's go backwards a little way, though.

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<v Speaker 2>Where do you feel in your life you chose success?

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<v Speaker 2>Was it as a young boy, young man?

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<v Speaker 2>Was it something from your parent, like, where did success become your?

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<v Speaker 3>standard.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if there was a single day, brad, but it became clear to me no later than my undergraduate years that my minimum standard of acceptability for myself and presumably people I was working with was above the aspiration of other people.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, to be honest, at a really snobby level, right, because people have different capacities.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you invite me to go run with a bunch of Olympic marathoners, I'm never going to keep up, not even for the first two miles.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just not going to happen.

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<v Speaker 3>That doesn't mean I'm a bad person or they shouldn't hang out with me.

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<v Speaker 3>We just need to acknowledge I'm not good at running and they are, but I was at a place where I just wanted people to keep up with me on the things that I was choosing to do.

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<v Speaker 3>So, you know, early in life I went to an undergraduate school that was famous for preparing people to work in global mass media, and I wanted to work in the studio system and surprise, surprise people at different levels of talents, and that's it.

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<v Speaker 3>I just wanted to make sure that I was as good as everybody else and and, quite frankly, did the work for that.

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<v Speaker 3>It wasn't just matter was born with, and I think you know that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, within some years I made films that went around the world and won those awards and I stood on those stages for many, many years of hard work.

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<v Speaker 3>But on that journey I was holding myself to standard that I noticed other people weren't, and I remember being at film festivals and talking to their filmmakers that you know they had finished films and they were in film festivals that's where we're at the film festival.

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<v Speaker 3>But they were just amazed how my team achieved so much success in that world by those standards and I was amazed that they like didn't understand what it took.

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<v Speaker 3>Then, level integrity you needed the level of drive, level of focus, the level of relationships you have to build, because there's no one person who has all the skills to build the level of films we were making, from animation, audio to legal to, you know, archival like nobody has us.

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<v Speaker 3>So you have to build a team, which means you need the skills to build the team and then have people work together in a way that creates something extraordinary, not just a laundry list of, you know, of action steps.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's been since the beginning of my adulthood that I remember, and it wasn't always healthy.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I've at least three times pushed myself to be on what I know is healthy Emotional collapse and physical collapse and, and, quite frankly, those collapses were part of the journey of understanding.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, this is not creating the life in a pattern that I want to go do forever.

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<v Speaker 3>There's another way to relate to work, so Formula or theory.

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<v Speaker 2>How does success happen in your mind?

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously the hard work and doing, putting in the time.

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<v Speaker 2>You've mentioned building the team, all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>What else would you say to someone that wants to understand how does success happen?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, of course, the first thing that we have to do in that conversation, brad, is understand, but what the person we're speaking to define death success for them?

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<v Speaker 3>Right, because you and I can talk in blue, we can give them large books and lots of exercises, and if their idea of success is Foreign to us, we are wasting their time in ours.

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<v Speaker 3>With the people that I talked to who are usually working in Great, frankly now, global organizations, right?

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<v Speaker 3>Success involves bringing people together with very specific, usually highly honed skills on very challenging Problems, and I'm at this place in my career now where I talked to people who are working on challenges.

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<v Speaker 3>When they get it wrong, people die.

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<v Speaker 3>So military, medical, medical services, education and then certain areas of high innovation, tech.

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<v Speaker 3>Those are people I talked to and Obviously, you can talk a lot about different areas of success, but a big part of them is do you recognize who you need?

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<v Speaker 3>If you're running a hospital, there's a lot of people involved, and Then are you bringing them together in a way where they can be effective with one another?

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<v Speaker 3>And if you're not, what's missing?

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<v Speaker 3>And if all you think is I'm gonna bring people together, I'm gonna cut a transaction relationship with each one of them.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's call that a salary.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna tell them when to show up and what the responsibilities are, and then I'm gonna hope it all works out.

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<v Speaker 3>I see you nodding your head.

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<v Speaker 3>We know exactly how that's gonna pan out Exactly right, and there's gonna be a lot of this.

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<v Speaker 3>Not my job, oh look, it's five o'clock.

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<v Speaker 3>Going on, and when you're handling Extremely challenging situations globally where people die when you get it wrong, that's not gonna work.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you're competing with other organizations, as do high-innovation tech and your teams, using the phrase Not my job, oh look, it's five o'clock, you're gonna be dead within a year.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So that brings me to the relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>What's your theory on the relationship between failure and success?

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<v Speaker 3>All right, that's a curious way to put it.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna say that if you are a leadership role, which is to say, by definition, you're working with other people and they are looking to you to at least have a vision of the future, like that's the least needs to happen, right, and you don't know how to build a relationship where others believe that they share of value and purpose with you and they believe that you have an integrity To work toward that end goal, even if that's keep our students safer Right, then you're gonna fail.

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<v Speaker 3>I Don't care what your vision is, I don't care how loud you speak, I don't care how much capital you have.

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<v Speaker 3>You're gonna fail of other people to understand, oh, these are the values you're you're living life by.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's the purpose of your action, and I want to join you because you can't do this by yourself.

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<v Speaker 3>Now there's, you know, literally libraries of other leadership stuff, but I believe that if you can't cross that relationship, just go home.

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<v Speaker 3>And Brad, I know that you're well connected.

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<v Speaker 3>You know people who have fabulous amounts of capital, really lousy at relationships and they complain a lot how things just don't get done.

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<v Speaker 3>Am I right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, execution, all those things like it.

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<v Speaker 2>And every time you go in and chat with them, it's like, oh my god, they're missing the whole point, exactly right.

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<v Speaker 2>So, all right, we're gonna take a quick break.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna be back with Charles, we're gonna dive into the art of community and how to actually do this stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>Follow along as the coach demonstrates how to successfully navigate the challenges and recognize the opportunities business owners face every day.

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<v Speaker 4>The business coach uses strategies developed by Brad Shookers and the business coaches and action coach who have helped millions of business owners worldwide realize their dreams.

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<v Speaker 2>We're back, charles.

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<v Speaker 2>You and I got to meet through the books.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, I didn't meet you, but I read this one first, then building brand community second, and made all of my team read building brand communities.

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<v Speaker 2>But we met at the kids school my kids school who brought you in to help build community there.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to start with a question that's easy for you but hard for others to understand is why community now?

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<v Speaker 2>Why is it such a massively important thing?

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<v Speaker 3>In the leadership context, brad.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I define community in my work as a group of people who share mutual concern for one another and that's it.

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<v Speaker 3>And so you can have a community in your neighborhood, at your kids, school, among your sports friends and, of course, at work anywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>Why is it important for people leadership roles now?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the research is pretty clear that the United States is now living in what may be the loneliest era ever, certainly profoundly more lonely than simply a generation ago.

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<v Speaker 3>And just to give some numbers to ground that, brad, the latest research shows that half of Americans do not have four friends.

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<v Speaker 3>Or, said differently, half Americans have three friends or less.

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<v Speaker 3>And that sounds bad, brad, but it's worse than that 13% of Americans, and fully one of six American men, have no friends, no close friends.

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<v Speaker 3>So and that's not friends at work, brad, that's just friends.

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<v Speaker 3>So every business leader that's listening right now is hiring people in that context, and that's a very fragile way to have a life and, when you bring those people together, a very fragile way to run an organization.

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<v Speaker 3>And especially remember I said that people contact me when they have high stakes involved.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we know that when formal communication systems collapse or fail in an organization and they always do.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, brad, the friendships create the informal communication network that saves the organization.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, because if I'm afraid to ask a question, because you'll find out I don't know it and I might burn down the warehouse, right, if I have a friend named Brad, I say, hey, brad, I'm closing the warehouse, you know which order do we do the valves?

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<v Speaker 3>And you say, oh, my god, make sure you do it in this order.

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<v Speaker 3>I never call someone, say, brad, just saved me from burning down the warehouse, but we did save bringing the warehouse.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll apply that to an airport, apply that to a surgical team, apply that to, you know, military teams, literally, you know pulling hostages out of rooms.

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<v Speaker 3>We as leaders need to understand okay, I'm hiring people in a context where they don't have the skills to build the relationships they need for personal success or, quite frankly, any other kind of success.

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<v Speaker 3>There are things we can do in organizations to create contexts where those relationships are knit together and then make my organization more resilient, more adaptable to a world that's changing, quite frankly, faster than we can even track it.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I think about this from my perspective, when I'm hiring someone, that person has under three friends on average.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't have the relationship skills to build friendships.

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<v Speaker 2>How do I like?

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<v Speaker 2>What do I do to make that change?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, how do I bring them into a community Because we'll talk about it from a brand perspective in a moment but just how do I get my team to be a community type thing is a big part of that.

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, there's a bigger conversation here because we've got to talk about what kind of people and what contacts, but it always starts in the same place.

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<v Speaker 3>First of all, we bring people together on shared values and purpose.

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<v Speaker 3>So let's, for the purposes of this conversation, think about a surgical team.

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<v Speaker 3>If you're not on a surgical team to save people's lives and make people more healthy, you shouldn't be there.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you're leading that team and you figure out someone else someone is there and that is not a value and purpose they have in showing up to work then it's up to you to get them out of the team.

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<v Speaker 3>So, first of all, we identify the shared values and purpose and then we know that people build relationships when they spend time together, not just any time, because you can create toxic time and people do.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, hundreds of organizations spend millions of dollars creating toxic time together, but we need to start by actually inviting people to spend that time and I know that sounds silly, or may sound silly.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, charles, the community experts said we need to invite people to things.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, brad, I've noticed we live in an era where people like to skip the invitations.

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<v Speaker 3>In my work, an invitation is a request to spend time where the person invited knows that someone cares if they show up.

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<v Speaker 3>Simple as that.

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<v Speaker 3>I've noticed in our culture we have an assumption that we can try to invite people but not let them know that anybody cares if they show up.

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<v Speaker 3>And I have a name for that we call those announcements.

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<v Speaker 3>And I can't tell you how many times I go to an organization and they say, oh, we're having a hard time.

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<v Speaker 3>And I say, well, what are you inviting them to?

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<v Speaker 3>And they say, oh, well, we send out a mass email in October to come to a gala in November.

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<v Speaker 3>And, gee, we're not getting a lot of engagement.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, first of all, that's not an invitation, it's an announcement that you're doing at a gala and, second of all, that gala is not an intimate experience for people to build connections.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an opportunity for you to get their money.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not against you getting their money if they want to give it, but let's not pretend you're building community.

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<v Speaker 3>So we start with the invitation and then the next lesson I teach when I'm working with leaders is well, what do we invite people to?

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<v Speaker 3>And we have to invite people to do?

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<v Speaker 3>We have to invite participants to things where they actually have an opportunity to build a relationship they want Right.

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<v Speaker 3>First of all, they know that people there share at least one value of purpose keeping kids safe at the school counts, and it needs to be an intimate enough experience that they can have the conversation they want.

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<v Speaker 3>And, brad, just this year we're in February.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't tell you how many events I've been to where somebody spent a lot of money and a lot of time creating events and made sure they were so loud and so distracting.

00:17:37.126 --> 00:17:46.698
<v Speaker 3>All I wanted to do was get out of there because they made sure inadvertently, that I couldn't actually have an intimate conversation with someone like Brad Sugars where we could talk about something deeper that we care about.

00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:49.484
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

00:17:49.484 --> 00:17:52.398
<v Speaker 2>You know, I see those same events.

00:17:52.398 --> 00:18:00.565
<v Speaker 2>When I'm in the green room I can have great conversations with people and then when I'm in the green room I can't talk to anyone.

00:18:00.565 --> 00:18:12.041
<v Speaker 2>So I remember you gave me that little button invitations matter and I still I have it in one of the drawers at home and I see it like every week or two and I make sure and my wife and I have always been invited.

00:18:12.041 --> 00:18:18.064
<v Speaker 2>I want to just flip over just for a second to brand communities.

00:18:18.064 --> 00:18:21.859
<v Speaker 2>What is it about brand communities today?

00:18:21.859 --> 00:18:22.821
<v Speaker 2>That people?

00:18:22.821 --> 00:18:34.740
<v Speaker 2>I guess the big question is how do I help people understand just how vital this is today to build in your business, to build a brand based community?

00:18:36.154 --> 00:18:41.865
<v Speaker 3>Well, there are different kinds of brand communities we can build and so different businesses are going to need different kinds of brand communities.

00:18:41.865 --> 00:18:55.480
<v Speaker 3>For example, you know Patagonia has elite athletes that they name and they invest money in bringing those athletes to the campus here in California and Santa Cruz and giving them experience and connecting with them, and a couple of things happened for Patagonia.

00:18:55.480 --> 00:19:01.340
<v Speaker 3>Obviously, at some level, those athletes are promoting Patagonia, but you know, patagonia could pay people to wear stuff.

00:19:01.340 --> 00:19:03.015
<v Speaker 3>That's not the problem.

00:19:03.015 --> 00:19:05.592
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that when I spoke to people of Patagonia they shared.

00:19:05.592 --> 00:19:21.915
<v Speaker 3>That was really great about that is when you have the most elite windsurfers in the world connected with your team and each other, you learn what's good for them and what could be innovated, that people who don't have relationships and aren't listening don't get Said differently.

00:19:21.915 --> 00:19:29.403
<v Speaker 3>They're innovating faster than competitors because they have a genuine relationship there and it's not what I call simply extractive.

00:19:29.403 --> 00:19:41.641
<v Speaker 3>You know, patagonia is a good example because it started with a rock climber who literally was building equipment to keep his friends alive on the mountain yeah, that's actually what Yvonne Charnard was doing.

00:19:41.641 --> 00:19:54.344
<v Speaker 3>And then, after he was building that equipment, he realized they needed better clothes and he had a friend sew a pair of shorts that was tough enough not to get ripped up on the rock and that was the first piece of Patagonia clothing to this day.

00:19:55.217 --> 00:20:02.123
<v Speaker 3>The people of Patagonia and you know, brad, that Patagonia has a hard time handling the avalanche of resumes they get of the best talent in the world who want to work there.

00:20:02.123 --> 00:20:18.016
<v Speaker 3>They care that athletes who they know are going to wear their garments in the most extreme weather in the world that that stuff works, it's not going to catch on fire, it's not going to rip and it's not going to let them freeze to death, no matter what it is.

00:20:18.016 --> 00:20:20.619
<v Speaker 3>And that's not true of every organization.

00:20:20.619 --> 00:20:35.884
<v Speaker 3>Whenever we approach a community within our company or outside our company, and our number one, or, in fact, only, intention is to extract, to do a calculation what can I get out of these people by buying this pizza or giving them tickets?

00:20:35.884 --> 00:20:37.346
<v Speaker 3>That's going to fail.

00:20:37.835 --> 00:20:43.660
<v Speaker 3>And here's why I know, brad you know you're such a successful guy, brad you engage with a lot of companies.

00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:54.700
<v Speaker 3>I already know how many times you want to go to an event and build a relationship with somebody that you already know before you meet them is only calculating in their head what they can get out of Brad sugars and is it going to benefit them?

00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:56.557
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I already know.

00:20:56.557 --> 00:21:07.614
<v Speaker 3>So I don't understand why so many people leading large organizations approach connecting the people important to them, be them inside or outside the organization, with the same attitude.

00:21:07.614 --> 00:21:13.807
<v Speaker 3>Because you're only starting with an attitude that's going to toxify that and you're going to get results consistent with that.

00:21:14.611 --> 00:21:15.192
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.

00:21:15.192 --> 00:21:27.786
<v Speaker 2>I look at what we've done to build communities and I think that the virtual nature of the world, shifting so dramatically in the last few years, has really helped us with community building.

00:21:27.786 --> 00:21:40.115
<v Speaker 2>Is online community today getting stronger, or am I just out of my mind, thinking that this is actually getting better because of the way people have interacted online?

00:21:40.904 --> 00:21:42.569
<v Speaker 3>So it's a little bit more nuanced than that.

00:21:42.569 --> 00:21:50.832
<v Speaker 3>Largely, we know that online community does not nearly deliver the benefits to our lives as in-person building.

00:21:50.832 --> 00:21:55.036
<v Speaker 3>In fact, according to Marissa King's work and she was at Yale School of Management she's now at Wharton.

00:21:55.036 --> 00:22:06.517
<v Speaker 3>According to her book Chemistry and Social Chemistry, it takes five times amount of time to build a relationship digitally mediated as it does in person.

00:22:06.517 --> 00:22:13.714
<v Speaker 3>Or said differently, brad, if you come to my home for dinner from six o'clock to nine o'clock, to have an equivalent relationship we need to spend 15 hours on Zoom.

00:22:13.714 --> 00:22:15.165
<v Speaker 3>Here's what's.

00:22:15.165 --> 00:22:19.332
<v Speaker 3>So you and me we're not spending 15 hours on Zoom, so we're not actually going to build that relationship.

00:22:20.287 --> 00:22:25.590
<v Speaker 3>And quite frankly, after three hours over dinner and presuming the lasagna is good and you like the wine, you may stay till 10.

00:22:25.590 --> 00:22:30.384
<v Speaker 3>I don't know Whereas that's not going to happen on Zoom.

00:22:30.384 --> 00:22:40.893
<v Speaker 3>So Zoom, the online stuff can be helpful, but we largely see the help in outlier situations where there's stigma for community to come together and they can't find each other.

00:22:40.893 --> 00:22:47.248
<v Speaker 3>Or if someone is physically remote, maybe from medical limitations or geographically, they're posted somewhere.

00:22:47.248 --> 00:22:53.817
<v Speaker 3>But for most of us, building the friendships around us has a dramatically bigger effect.

00:22:54.464 --> 00:23:04.252
<v Speaker 3>And you know, what you didn't mention is social media, which I found that for younger folks, there's a real confusion about community, a group of people who share mutual concern and social media followers.

00:23:04.252 --> 00:23:12.276
<v Speaker 3>And the research is clear no matter how many followers we get online, our lives don't actually get that much better.

00:23:12.276 --> 00:23:18.375
<v Speaker 3>And yet a single digit number of friends near us dramatically makes our lives better.

00:23:18.375 --> 00:23:24.376
<v Speaker 3>And when you understand that, it becomes crystal clear where we want to invest our time, because our time is precious.

00:23:24.376 --> 00:23:26.269
<v Speaker 3>In fact, that's the thing we can't buy more of, right?

00:23:26.269 --> 00:23:33.336
<v Speaker 3>And so if I know that the social media stuff is not going to deliver it, it's largely wasting my life.

00:23:33.336 --> 00:23:34.897
<v Speaker 3>We're going to be back.

00:23:36.648 --> 00:23:43.454
<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk more success and talk about scaling communities, all that sort of stuff, but also getting the most out of the inside of the communities.

00:23:43.454 --> 00:23:45.290
<v Speaker 2>Charles Vogel, he's our expert today.

00:23:45.845 --> 00:23:52.632
<v Speaker 5>Charles Vogel is an advisor, speaker and author of three books, including the international bestseller the Art of Community.

00:23:52.632 --> 00:23:58.450
<v Speaker 5>He is also a founding member of the Google Vitality Lab, which works toward innovating healing strategies.

00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:03.275
<v Speaker 5>To learn more about Charles Vogel, please visit CharlesVogelcom.

00:24:03.756 --> 00:24:05.086
<v Speaker 2>And we're back, Charles.

00:24:05.086 --> 00:24:13.332
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about the difference between groups that build okay communities and groups that build amazing communities.

00:24:13.332 --> 00:24:15.911
<v Speaker 2>What's the differences between the two?

00:24:17.904 --> 00:24:21.136
<v Speaker 3>Well, overwhelmingly what I believe the difference is.

00:24:21.136 --> 00:24:24.990
<v Speaker 3>There's many, many layers, but we'll talk about the one that comes to mind.

00:24:24.990 --> 00:24:34.070
<v Speaker 3>People invest in communities temporally, physically and financially because they believe that participating grows them in the way they want to grow.

00:24:34.070 --> 00:24:39.574
<v Speaker 3>So, if you think well, communities really invested in your business life, brad.

00:24:39.574 --> 00:24:44.788
<v Speaker 3>My guess is at the time you were showing up, you believe there were people there that would help you grow in the way you want to grow.

00:24:44.788 --> 00:24:50.550
<v Speaker 3>Here's the good news you grew into someone different, a more mature version of you, and so now you're looking for radically different communities.

00:24:50.550 --> 00:24:56.076
<v Speaker 3>However, if those elements hadn't been there to date, you would have never participated.

00:24:56.076 --> 00:24:56.787
<v Speaker 3>You'd still be looking.

00:24:56.787 --> 00:25:03.551
<v Speaker 3>And that's important because I see people just want to do fun stuff, and great fun stuff can be great for people who want to grow and having fun.

00:25:04.744 --> 00:25:06.571
<v Speaker 3>But Brad Sugar is probably looking to grow in other ways.

00:25:06.571 --> 00:25:12.330
<v Speaker 3>So if you want to get him to participate, you got to think and it's not rocket science you can ask people and you can into it.

00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:17.296
<v Speaker 3>Now, for many people, just having more friends, especially in a lonely era like now, counts.

00:25:17.296 --> 00:25:20.374
<v Speaker 3>A way that you want to grow is just have more friends.

00:25:20.374 --> 00:25:22.613
<v Speaker 3>I want to have more supportive friends.

00:25:22.613 --> 00:25:29.307
<v Speaker 3>I can call for favors and call me within five minutes driving my home and I invested in that and so that would count.

00:25:29.307 --> 00:25:42.041
<v Speaker 3>But if you're just say, well, gee, this would be fun, maybe even wacky, I'll invite people, people might come for a novelty, you might get lucky, but largely you're not building something that people want to come back to.

00:25:43.425 --> 00:25:45.388
<v Speaker 2>Got it, got it, okay.

00:25:45.388 --> 00:25:50.597
<v Speaker 2>So then let's talk about activity within a community.

00:25:50.597 --> 00:25:59.333
<v Speaker 2>How do we get the people already they've come to the community, they've joined the community how do we get them to really want to participate and really want to be a part of that group?

00:26:00.724 --> 00:26:02.127
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know.

00:26:02.127 --> 00:26:05.955
<v Speaker 3>One set of ideas that comes to mind is what I call the three promises.

00:26:05.955 --> 00:26:09.792
<v Speaker 3>You know, every event that we create has to deliver on three promises.

00:26:09.792 --> 00:26:13.711
<v Speaker 3>The first one is participants need to be able to say yes or no to the invitation.

00:26:13.711 --> 00:26:31.651
<v Speaker 3>If they can't say no, because you said you will be at the happy hour at 6pm on a Friday and they have sick kids at home or, in your case, multiple kids at home and you're like I don't want to be at a happy hour at 6pm on my kids, they're at school and I say, well, brad, if you're not there, then I know you're not a team player.

00:26:31.651 --> 00:26:36.960
<v Speaker 3>Or if I say, well, gee, brad, if you're not there, I know you're not really committed to growing in your career.

00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:44.332
<v Speaker 3>Well, it doesn't matter how good that event was, that's a lousy event for you, it's a toxified event, no matter how much I spend on it and how good the pizza is.

00:26:44.332 --> 00:26:44.733
<v Speaker 3>Right.

00:26:44.733 --> 00:26:49.123
<v Speaker 3>And first of all, the first promise is we call that freedom, brad.

00:26:49.123 --> 00:26:50.047
<v Speaker 3>Does the freedom say yes or no?

00:26:51.070 --> 00:26:57.394
<v Speaker 3>The second promise I have to deliver is the opportunity to make a connection there with someone who shares your value and purpose at least one.

00:26:57.394 --> 00:27:01.710
<v Speaker 3>If I then play music so loud that you can't talk to anybody there.

00:27:01.710 --> 00:27:03.295
<v Speaker 3>And you just shared you go to those events.

00:27:03.295 --> 00:27:04.626
<v Speaker 3>That's a lousy event.

00:27:04.626 --> 00:27:10.759
<v Speaker 3>In fact, it's a toxic event because I know how often Brad wants to come back because you taught him he shows up, he can't get promise.

00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:20.726
<v Speaker 3>Number two it's lousy and I've been to events, brad, where people spend six digits trying to impress many people, including me, how awesome it is and I just want to get out of the room because I can't connect with anybody.

00:27:20.726 --> 00:27:26.990
<v Speaker 3>And then the third thing which we touched on is people have to grow the way they want to grow.

00:27:27.613 --> 00:27:30.188
<v Speaker 3>So those events, you told me that you loved the green room.

00:27:30.188 --> 00:27:32.734
<v Speaker 3>You got in the main room and you couldn't talk, but you were there.

00:27:32.734 --> 00:27:34.328
<v Speaker 3>You weren't hanging out with your kids.

00:27:34.328 --> 00:27:41.426
<v Speaker 3>My guess is there was an aspiration of growing in some way by being in that room and meeting those people, learning those things, and they didn't deliver it.

00:27:41.426 --> 00:27:42.650
<v Speaker 3>That's why you want to leave.

00:27:42.650 --> 00:27:48.151
<v Speaker 3>Now notice, brad, if we don't deliver any one of those three, that's a toxic event.

00:27:48.151 --> 00:27:57.269
<v Speaker 3>I've taught you my events are terrible and it doesn't matter how glamorous the room is, how many celebrities are there or how expensive the open bar is, you don't want to come back.

00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:00.256
<v Speaker 3>So it sounds like a high bar.

00:28:00.256 --> 00:28:09.070
<v Speaker 3>But quite frankly, brad, a table with hot soup, crusty bread, people who love something you love not going to be business and a quiet room totally counts.

00:28:09.070 --> 00:28:20.567
<v Speaker 3>And my guess is there are rooms in France with soup, bread and a table that you would go into if you knew there was someone who cared about business, making a difference with small business owners around the world, and you would totally sit there.

00:28:21.288 --> 00:28:22.231
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.

00:28:22.231 --> 00:28:24.479
<v Speaker 2>So I've joined this group.

00:28:24.479 --> 00:28:25.501
<v Speaker 2>I'm in there.

00:28:25.501 --> 00:28:33.828
<v Speaker 2>My next thing is how do I get that group to self sustain, to evolve, to grow, for people to take ownership of the group?

00:28:35.452 --> 00:28:45.076
<v Speaker 3>Well, as communities continue to gather, we're going to see a lumpy participation rate, and it's dictated by what we call, in fancy terms, the parater distribution.

00:28:45.076 --> 00:28:46.567
<v Speaker 3>Some people know it's the 80-20 rule.

00:28:46.567 --> 00:28:58.272
<v Speaker 3>All that means is no more than 20% of my participants are going to get really engaged and they're going to mature in this group, and we call all those, for the purposes of the training that I do, elders.

00:28:58.272 --> 00:29:01.029
<v Speaker 3>They want to be elders, they want to host events, they want to invite people.

00:29:01.029 --> 00:29:06.846
<v Speaker 3>Hey, I have a better idea that we can do something different in addition to what we're doing when we're in a leadership role.

00:29:06.846 --> 00:29:14.269
<v Speaker 3>We want to identify this top 20%, which might be a top 10%, and say well, you obviously are now not just a newbie here.

00:29:14.308 --> 00:29:15.412
<v Speaker 3>You know how this is going on.

00:29:15.412 --> 00:29:22.969
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to support you creating events that I'm not going to be at or I can't run that are consistent with the values that we're gathering people.

00:29:22.969 --> 00:29:26.289
<v Speaker 3>If it's for small business owners or business owners, fair enough.

00:29:26.289 --> 00:29:30.949
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to train you to create events that deliver on those three promises yourself.

00:29:30.949 --> 00:29:35.001
<v Speaker 3>And what really happens is we're creating an elder ring.

00:29:35.001 --> 00:29:48.258
<v Speaker 3>We call it in your community and you whoever we call that the principal elder recognize who they are and take care of them, because they're more important in the growth and sustainability of your community than people who are just visiting for three times.

00:29:48.258 --> 00:29:54.154
<v Speaker 3>And when you invest in their training, then they are empowered in growing that scale with the correct values.

00:29:54.154 --> 00:30:00.173
<v Speaker 3>Because if you don't train them, guess what they're going to create the toxic events you're remembering, and then that's people are going to remember about your group.

00:30:01.821 --> 00:30:10.483
<v Speaker 2>So okay, if I just go to private first friends, that whole thing you talk about creating groups.

00:30:10.483 --> 00:30:15.749
<v Speaker 2>I remember when I first moved to Vegas I watched a Jimmy Kimmel skit on the Handsome Men's Club.

00:30:15.749 --> 00:30:28.763
<v Speaker 2>So I grabbed a bunch of guys that I knew and I said, hey, we're starting a group called the Handsome Men's Club just as a way to get guys together and hang out and you know it was all dads and stuff just to do something.

00:30:28.763 --> 00:30:34.140
<v Speaker 2>What else can people do to create more friends today?

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:40.345
<v Speaker 2>You know, I know you talk about invitations, matt, but what else can we do today to create more of that?

00:30:41.308 --> 00:30:52.036
<v Speaker 3>So one of the ideas I like to share is what I call a cadence of events and I guess, as you were intuitively doing, that, brad is my guess is the Handsome Men didn't just meet once or just twice.

00:30:52.739 --> 00:30:54.523
<v Speaker 3>There was a cadence and that.

00:30:54.523 --> 00:30:57.140
<v Speaker 3>And when we created cadence, you know, I recommend once a week.

00:30:57.140 --> 00:31:19.368
<v Speaker 3>You know what, if once a week for seven o'clock to nine o'clock every Thursday works for you, they just mark it in the calendar the whole year and you don't need to know who's coming, but you just need to know that you're inviting people to join you from seven o'clock to nine o'clock on Thursdays, and they can be Handsome Men or anybody else, and by virtue of having that cadence on our calendar, that opens us up to invitation.

00:31:19.368 --> 00:31:25.301
<v Speaker 3>So if I meet a Handsome Men, literally or figuratively, I can say, oh, brad, I have a Handsome Men's group, we'd like come.

00:31:25.301 --> 00:31:30.124
<v Speaker 3>And you say, oh, charles, I'm going to Mexico, I'm going to Hawaii, I'm taking my kids to Colorado.

00:31:30.124 --> 00:31:31.027
<v Speaker 3>I say, oh, that's fine.

00:31:31.027 --> 00:31:32.028
<v Speaker 3>Guess what?

00:31:32.028 --> 00:31:33.842
<v Speaker 3>We're also doing it in April.

00:31:33.842 --> 00:31:34.784
<v Speaker 3>How do I know?

00:31:34.784 --> 00:31:35.767
<v Speaker 3>Is it every week?

00:31:35.767 --> 00:31:40.489
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then you might say, well, I'm a Handsome man and I got kids, I'm going to be around in April.

00:31:40.489 --> 00:31:41.141
<v Speaker 3>I'd love to come.

00:31:41.141 --> 00:31:48.186
<v Speaker 3>If I don't have the cadence, then it's just like hoping and praying and you know, maybe a lot of people will come every week.

00:31:48.186 --> 00:31:49.741
<v Speaker 3>In fact, that's probably exactly what's going to happen.

00:31:50.624 --> 00:31:52.469
<v Speaker 3>One is a life-changing number.

00:31:52.469 --> 00:32:09.029
<v Speaker 3>You know, when you have an emergency I know you've got kids, brad when you have a kid who's sick in the middle of the night and maybe breathing is hard and you're panicking, how many friends who know what to do or can help you with that maybe get them to the hospital would it take before you're going to feel better at 3 am?

00:32:09.029 --> 00:32:13.490
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, one, one, that's right, exactly one.

00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:15.441
<v Speaker 3>And that's if your kids have a hard time breathing.

00:32:15.441 --> 00:32:22.909
<v Speaker 3>So when we have this cadence events and one friend shows up for dinner I got one friend coming for dinner tonight that counts.

00:32:22.909 --> 00:32:26.648
<v Speaker 3>Now I don't know if you know I'm going to call them in the future, but here's what I do know.

00:32:26.648 --> 00:32:27.882
<v Speaker 3>One is a fantastic number.

00:32:30.227 --> 00:32:31.509
<v Speaker 2>Love it, charles.

00:32:31.509 --> 00:32:33.593
<v Speaker 2>My quick fire round.

00:32:33.593 --> 00:32:34.921
<v Speaker 2>Okay, quick fire round.

00:32:34.921 --> 00:32:36.285
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at?

00:32:36.285 --> 00:32:38.892
<v Speaker 2>All right, I'm going to give you a word.

00:32:38.892 --> 00:32:42.630
<v Speaker 2>I want you to give me your short version of the answer, one or two words back.

00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:44.682
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at goals?

00:32:47.949 --> 00:32:48.569
<v Speaker 3>Scheduling it.

00:32:48.569 --> 00:32:52.464
<v Speaker 3>If I don't schedule, if I don't schedule time to work on, it doesn't get worked on.

00:32:52.464 --> 00:32:55.430
<v Speaker 3>If I schedule it and I keep to my schedule, guess what I get movement.

00:32:55.430 --> 00:32:59.144
<v Speaker 3>I may not achieve the goal, but I'm going to move forward, Otherwise it's just talk.

00:33:00.307 --> 00:33:01.910
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed itself Development.

00:33:03.854 --> 00:33:09.622
<v Speaker 3>I find elders that doesn't necessarily meet an age, but it often does who have learned lessons I haven't.

00:33:09.622 --> 00:33:19.125
<v Speaker 3>I share them with integrity, my intentions and the values that I'm bringing to that, which is to say hard work and focus, and then I allow them to show me what I don't yet know.

00:33:19.184 --> 00:33:22.582
<v Speaker 2>I know how do you succeed at enjoying life?

00:33:24.806 --> 00:33:25.969
<v Speaker 3>Again, I schedule it.

00:33:25.969 --> 00:33:31.208
<v Speaker 3>I've actually considered what is it that's fun in life and I go, and you and I talked about it.

00:33:31.208 --> 00:33:32.560
<v Speaker 3>I just came back from a ski trip.

00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:33.663
<v Speaker 3>I'm going off to ski trip.

00:33:33.663 --> 00:33:36.820
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't matter how much money I could make in that week.

00:33:36.820 --> 00:33:42.709
<v Speaker 3>Skiing with my son is a life enriching activity and if I don't just put it on the calendar, grab him and go.

00:33:42.709 --> 00:33:43.471
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't happen.

00:33:44.719 --> 00:33:46.362
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at health.

00:33:49.867 --> 00:33:57.701
<v Speaker 3>Weekly, almost daily commitment, knowing that my health isn't going to take care of itself and I can either complain about it or I can do something about it.

00:33:57.701 --> 00:33:58.946
<v Speaker 3>And guess what I've do something about it.

00:33:58.946 --> 00:33:59.819
<v Speaker 3>Everything gets better.

00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:02.746
<v Speaker 3>Eating exercise relationships.

00:34:03.688 --> 00:34:05.391
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at relationships?

00:34:09.561 --> 00:34:11.746
<v Speaker 3>Building empathy has been critical.

00:34:11.746 --> 00:34:13.612
<v Speaker 3>I'm really good at knowing my point of view.

00:34:13.612 --> 00:34:16.447
<v Speaker 3>I'm really good at knowing what upsets me and what I like.

00:34:16.447 --> 00:34:17.369
<v Speaker 3>Guess what?

00:34:17.369 --> 00:34:18.902
<v Speaker 3>Most people are not me.

00:34:18.902 --> 00:34:26.329
<v Speaker 3>And at this age, in order to have relationships I need I need to pay more attention to that than I understood I needed to in years past.

00:34:27.150 --> 00:34:28.402
<v Speaker 2>Love it, charles.

00:34:28.402 --> 00:34:29.568
<v Speaker 2>Let's finish out, then.

00:34:29.568 --> 00:34:34.539
<v Speaker 2>What's the best quote or the best advice you ever got on the subject of success?

00:34:34.650 --> 00:34:37.811
<v Speaker 3>Well, what came to my mind when I knew you were going to ask me?

00:34:37.811 --> 00:34:40.289
<v Speaker 3>This is a quote I got when I was an undergrad.

00:34:40.289 --> 00:34:44.233
<v Speaker 3>Someone shared it with me by a 20th century monk named Thomas Burton.

00:34:44.233 --> 00:34:49.880
<v Speaker 3>This is very famous and in a long letter he wrote to a young man while Thomas was alive.

00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:56.722
<v Speaker 3>He included the line in the end it is the reality of personal relationships that saves everything.

00:34:56.722 --> 00:35:06.143
<v Speaker 3>And now that I've moved, I've lived in several countries, I have a family, I've had enough friends who have had life-threatening challenges, both medical and physical.

00:35:06.143 --> 00:35:12.449
<v Speaker 3>Here's what I've learned In the end, it is the reality of personal relationships that saves everything.

00:35:13.634 --> 00:35:14.697
<v Speaker 2>I love it, charles Vogel.

00:35:14.697 --> 00:35:19.077
<v Speaker 2>Hit the show notes, click the buttons, follow, read, do all the things.

00:35:19.077 --> 00:35:20.945
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back with more success next week.

00:35:20.945 --> 00:35:24.019
<v Speaker 2>And that's the big success podcast for today.

00:35:24.019 --> 00:35:31.117
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully, you took a lot of notes, learned a whole bunch and, if you need to go re-listen to it, we dropped a lot of information right there today.

00:35:31.117 --> 00:35:33.465
<v Speaker 2>Big success is what it's all about.

00:35:33.465 --> 00:35:40.202
<v Speaker 2>And, by the way, if you haven't subscribed, hit that subscribe button so you're here with us every single week on the Big Success podcast.

00:35:40.202 --> 00:35:40.985
<v Speaker 2>I'm Brad Sugars.

00:35:40.985 --> 00:35:41.646
<v Speaker 2>That's BS.

00:35:41.646 --> 00:35:43.701
<v Speaker 2>Big success is what we're shooting for.

00:35:43.701 --> 00:35:49.184
<v Speaker 2>Check the show notes for all the links, make sure you follow through, keep learning, keep coming back.

00:35:49.184 --> 00:35:53.469
<v Speaker 2>Oh, and, by the way, share this with any of your friends who you know are up for success.

00:35:53.469 --> 00:35:56.123
<v Speaker 2>I'll see you next week on the Big Success podcast.

00:35:57.608 --> 00:36:03.251
<v Speaker 1>You've been listening to the Big Success podcast with the number one business coach in the world, Brad Sugars.

00:36:03.251 --> 00:36:12.784
<v Speaker 1>To learn more about how to achieve business and personal success, as well as how to level up or listen to past episodes, visit wwwbradsugarscom.