257 | Jan. 3rd Live Event - Q & A Session

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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All right,

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hello,

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everyone.

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I am so excited to be with you all.

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I know we have a lot more registered that are probably going to be hopping on,

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but

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welcome to those of you that are here right at 2.

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I'm really excited to have this live event.

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This is our first time,

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so

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really looking forward to that and I'm really excited for you to be here.

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Thank you for registering.

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And

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I just realized I need to share my screen.

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There you go.

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So thank you for being a part of this.

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I'm going to

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set some expectations,

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go through some process and housekeeping stuff.

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Then we will dive into the podcast and then we will open it up for Q&A.

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So

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first,

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let me say

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there are almost 150 people registered for this event.

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So

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as we get more and more and more people in the call,

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it's going to be important that we all keep our mutes on.

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Please.

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So if you can just make sure that your mute is on unless you're asking a question,

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that would be really helpful.

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And

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we are going to take advantage of this opportunity.

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I ask for your grace and your patience.

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This is the first one we've ever done,

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and I've never had this many people that are going to be on a call before.

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So if we have some hiccups or some tech issues

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or we're just not really solidified on our process,

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it's just because it's new.

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But I do want to actually share a couple of forecasting thoughts with you.

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The overwhelming response to this live event has just absolutely

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surprised me in the best way,

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and that leads me to believe that this is something that we need to do more often.

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So I want you to be aware that we are going to likely schedule these

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probably at least quarterly,

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maybe even monthly moving forward.

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And let me share a little bit of my heart.

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I want you to understand kind of where this came

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from and the origins of this whole live event.

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The

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first piece of this was when I did the meetup in Atlanta at the conference.

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And it was so amazing for me to put faces and names

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with listeners,

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and it was the connection and the relationships and

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the interaction that meant so much because I know

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you all feel like you know me very well because you listen to me all the time.

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I feel like I know you from a distance,

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but I would like to have a more personal connection.

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So

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That's one of the reasons why we did this.

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We kind of brainstormed how can we connect with more podcast listeners,

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and the live event was kind of birthed out of that.

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But here's a much more,

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I think,

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real and relevant reason as well.

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So many of you reach out to me and tell me that you feel lonely.

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So many of you reach out and say you feel very alone

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doing CCPT.

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You feel unsupported,

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you feel misunderstood.

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You don't have the tribe that you wish that you did,

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and I want these events to help you feel that you are not alone,

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and there are tons and tons of CCPTs that

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are like-minded and that are in the exact same

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level of passion and desire and commitment to the model as you.

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So that's kind of where this is all heading,

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and I look forward to many more of these events.

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The thing that I love the most about podcasting

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is the intimate connection

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with you all.

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I really truly feel every episode that I am talking to you directly,

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and now I get to actually have faces and names associated with you all as listeners.

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So

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really grateful for you and super glad that you're here.

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So

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let's dive into Q&A.

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I know some of you have been putting questions in.

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I know some of you have been sharing where you are.

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Maya and Eric will kind of be communicating with me through my phone.

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So if I'm staring down at my phone,

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that's why I'm getting messages from them.

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So

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let's see.

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The first one is from Kimberly H.

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Uh,

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sure.

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Hi.

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I am a school-based,

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uh,

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therapist in a,

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uh,

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middle school,

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so ages 11 to 14.

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I've got a fully equipped playroom and practice CCPT.

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Most of my clients engaged through play,

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but I've,

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each year I've had a handful that only talk.

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I still am CCPT.

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That's my.

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use those reflective responses.

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But I'm curious if I can ethically say that

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the therapeutic modality in a treatment note is CCPT

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since from the client's end,

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they are

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only talking,

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they're not engaging in play,

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even though my response to them is CCPT.

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Oh,

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OK.

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Helpful.

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So the short answer is yes,

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and the reason why the answer is yes is when we

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document

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it is from a clinical and theoretical perspective.

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So if you are not deviating,

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and let me for the rest of you all,

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let me make sure this is known,

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when we work with 12 to 14.

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That is actually still considered CCPT age appropriate,

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but often the the client modifies it themselves,

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so they move more toward activity based and more toward conversation.

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So that is a natural progression,

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12 to 14.

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They tend to be more verbal and they tend

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to move away from playing and more into activities.

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So they will throw a ball against the wall while

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they talk or they'll play Uno while they talk.

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So it's not so playful as it is,

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just gives them something to do so that they can be a little bit more conversational.

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That is still within the age range of CCPT with the modifications.

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And as long as you are still adherent to the model,

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you would still want to be clear that

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that is the clinical approach that you're using.

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It doesn't matter because

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look,

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it's predicated on the child is in.

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the child knows what they need.

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So if a 14 year old comes in and chooses to play,

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or if a 14 comes in and chooses to talk,

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it's still CCPT.

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You're just following the child's lead and honoring the fact that they know

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what they need to do and how they need to do it.

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Thanks for the question,

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Kimberly.

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OK,

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let me see.

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Let's see who's next in here.

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We've got

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Brooke M.

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Hi,

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um,

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my name is Brooke.

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I,

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um,

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currently work in

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a group office,

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um,

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and I specialize in trauma of all ages,

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but I'm only CCPT with my littles.

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um,

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and my question has to do with

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how we address ongoing

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parentification of our clients

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during those parent check-ins and with the parents,

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um,

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specifically those who

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are parentifying their children due to

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uh external strenuous circumstances like

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isolation or chronic illness.

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Hm,

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OK.

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Hi Brooke,

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by the way.

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So I think in that scenario,

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one of the things that we're always trying

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to do when we meet with parents is psychoeducation

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and equipping

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them with

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what they need to know,

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even if they don't need,

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they don't know that they need to know it.

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So here's what I mean by that.

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Often the goal of the consultation

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is to provide perspective,

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to provide objectivity.

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And then

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equip them with

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different approaches or some insight,

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some awareness that they didn't have before,

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and always.

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Clearly tied to CCPT principles.

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So I think that a lot of that is about normalizing,

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you know,

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it makes sense that

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you are in this situation.

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I mean,

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a lot of what we do is validation.

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We reflectively respond to parents just like we do to kids.

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So when we meet with parents,

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often it's validating and it's seeming understanding and

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kind of

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helping them feel that we get it,

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yet at the same time,

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our number one goal always is advocate for the child.

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And it's really unhealthy for a child to be parentified.

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We can speak to the clinical aspects of that.

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We can speak to the long term aspects of that.

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And often when we do so,

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we need to say things like,

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and we know that when kids are put in positions like this,

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when we know that the familial dynamic creates

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this kind of this kind of relationship,

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we know that,

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and when we say that it's not,

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I'm telling you this,

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it's we,

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we have this as knowledge

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as a field.

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So that's usually a really helpful intro into bringing up stuff like that.

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We know that research shows data indicates those kinds of comments,

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but it's really kind of helping them understand

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there are alternatives.

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So while I understand why you're in the situation that you're in,

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it would be helpful if you,

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and then you provide the psycho education to help them transition

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away from the patterns of behavior that they've been in.

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And toward more healthy and appropriate tied to CCPT,

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and you can always frame it that way.

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The more that you can use the skills that the child is getting in the playroom,

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the more impact that we have therapeutically.

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So if you can start doing X,

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Y,

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Z,

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this will be so much more helpful.

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That answer your question?

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Yeah.

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Um,

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I think

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specifically,

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if there could be a little bit more clarification on,

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um,

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how to

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meet those skills that,

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like,

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situationally are really struggling

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to be met.

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Um,

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you know,

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I have

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a lot of parents where they might be willing one on one,

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but they just really

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They

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find themselves unable to

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sort of meet those needs,

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and I think that's where I kind of struggle with

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um

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meeting that

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in those consults.

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So I'm wondering if it's that complex of a case,

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if it wouldn't make sense to transition them to CPRT.

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Because that gives parents much more buy-in,

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much more ownership.

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It becomes a whole different way of interacting at home versus every 5 every 5 weeks,

274
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,080
I try to equip you with something and then

275
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,349
it's really difficult for them to implement it.

276
00:09:48,429 --> 00:09:51,909
It's a much more structured formulaic type of

277
00:09:52,119 --> 00:09:53,130
intervention.

278
00:09:53,479 --> 00:09:59,469
And so sometimes we have transitioned out of CCPT into CPRT

279
00:09:59,799 --> 00:10:02,789
when the family dynamic and situation warrants it.

280
00:10:04,590 --> 00:10:04,940
OK,

281
00:10:04,969 --> 00:10:05,330
wonderful.

282
00:10:05,409 --> 00:10:05,489
Yeah,

283
00:10:05,570 --> 00:10:08,489
that's really helpful cause I tried to transition into filial

284
00:10:08,489 --> 00:10:10,760
and that was the barrier I kept running into.

285
00:10:11,049 --> 00:10:13,640
And so I think that makes a lot of sense.

286
00:10:14,169 --> 00:10:14,349
Oh,

287
00:10:14,369 --> 00:10:14,690
OK,

288
00:10:14,770 --> 00:10:15,159
I'm glad.

289
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:16,760
All right,

290
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:17,510
Tess,

291
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,090
what's your question?

292
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:22,400
I was curious to know your thoughts about um

293
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,849
clients continuing CCPT once they have met their goals,

294
00:10:26,859 --> 00:10:27,159
if,

295
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:27,440
you know,

296
00:10:27,599 --> 00:10:29,020
parents have expressed that

297
00:10:29,359 --> 00:10:30,000
um

298
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:31,989
they're still gaining value from it,

299
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,109
and the kid is

300
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,880
still engaging um and wants to keep coming.

301
00:10:37,119 --> 00:10:38,599
I call those marinators.

302
00:10:39,309 --> 00:10:42,619
And you will always have those families.

303
00:10:42,869 --> 00:10:43,190
I,

304
00:10:43,349 --> 00:10:43,909
no joke,

305
00:10:44,109 --> 00:10:45,070
Maya is on the call.

306
00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:46,140
She will confirm.

307
00:10:46,469 --> 00:10:47,270
I had a family.

308
00:10:47,309 --> 00:10:49,729
I've already been working with them for,

309
00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:50,270
gosh,

310
00:10:50,330 --> 00:10:52,059
I think 4 years maybe,

311
00:10:52,309 --> 00:10:55,039
and she walked in the office a couple weeks ago and said to Maya,

312
00:10:55,150 --> 00:10:55,349
yeah,

313
00:10:55,710 --> 00:10:56,380
we're gonna,

314
00:10:56,469 --> 00:11:00,580
we're gonna be coming here until he gets married or he graduates high school.

315
00:11:00,630 --> 00:11:02,020
I don't remember what the time frame was,

316
00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:03,780
but it was like way too long.

317
00:11:03,909 --> 00:11:04,309
I was like,

318
00:11:04,469 --> 00:11:04,510
no,

319
00:11:04,590 --> 00:11:05,099
you're not.

320
00:11:05,390 --> 00:11:05,919
Anyway,

321
00:11:06,309 --> 00:11:08,109
so here's my thought on it.

322
00:11:08,690 --> 00:11:11,789
We want to be ethical and we want to make sure that

323
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,390
this isn't a I'm stringing you along because you'll just stay in therapy forever.

324
00:11:16,599 --> 00:11:19,140
There has to be a point where we say

325
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,750
there's just not a clinical justification for the child to continue,

326
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,400
so we will reduce frequency over time to kind of wean off

327
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,070
in those scenarios because parents look at it as a crutch sometimes,

328
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:33,989
kids look at it as a crutch sometimes.

329
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:34,239
I mean,

330
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,080
it becomes a security blanket and it's safe and it's warm.

331
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:40,159
It's cozy and you're a part of our family and we love you so much.

332
00:11:40,739 --> 00:11:41,780
But unfortunately,

333
00:11:41,859 --> 00:11:44,500
what that does is it blocks a spot for a

334
00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:47,450
kid that really needs to start therapy first and foremost.

335
00:11:47,619 --> 00:11:48,570
And second of all,

336
00:11:48,859 --> 00:11:52,609
they both have to parents and kids have to get to a point where they realize

337
00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:57,940
they're the ones that made the changes and they can continue to operate without you.

338
00:11:58,099 --> 00:12:00,809
You are not the hingepin for their success.

339
00:12:01,059 --> 00:12:01,650
They are,

340
00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:03,380
and they have to come to that conclusion,

341
00:12:03,390 --> 00:12:05,539
and often that is forced by termination.

342
00:12:06,039 --> 00:12:08,969
So what we typically do is we reduce to biweekly,

343
00:12:09,179 --> 00:12:10,729
then we reduce to monthly,

344
00:12:11,219 --> 00:12:12,609
and then if they're really,

345
00:12:12,659 --> 00:12:13,650
really wanting to hang on,

346
00:12:13,859 --> 00:12:14,299
we say,

347
00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:14,780
you know what,

348
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:15,820
it's an open door,

349
00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:18,179
just reach out if you want to come in for a session,

350
00:12:18,460 --> 00:12:22,820
and it becomes an as needed check in rather than a scheduled appointment.

351
00:12:23,469 --> 00:12:27,090
And then they still feel like they have that lifeline if they need or want it,

352
00:12:27,619 --> 00:12:31,539
but it's not a consistent appointment and therefore the child

353
00:12:31,539 --> 00:12:34,330
and the parents both acquiesce to the idea that,

354
00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:34,539
OK,

355
00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:36,210
I don't really need this.

356
00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:39,090
It's just something that I've been clinging to for a really long time.

357
00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:41,500
So the weaning off process is helpful,

358
00:12:41,739 --> 00:12:47,219
and then going on that as needed basis is a couple of families kind of like,

359
00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:47,409
OK,

360
00:12:47,580 --> 00:12:48,909
I I'll agree to that,

361
00:12:48,919 --> 00:12:50,659
but I won't just quit cold turkey.

362
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:52,080
And when,

363
00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:54,460
and if they reach out once every 2 or 3 months,

364
00:12:54,969 --> 00:12:56,960
you just get them in and it's no big deal,

365
00:12:56,969 --> 00:12:58,520
and it's still a check in for a child.

366
00:12:58,530 --> 00:12:58,650
I mean,

367
00:12:58,690 --> 00:13:00,130
we call them booster sessions.

368
00:13:00,239 --> 00:13:02,719
A lot of times kids benefit from the reminder

369
00:13:02,719 --> 00:13:05,159
of everything that they've learned and gained in play.

370
00:13:05,369 --> 00:13:07,479
So when they come in every 2 or 3 months,

371
00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:09,000
it's a positive thing for them,

372
00:13:09,250 --> 00:13:12,969
but it is just kind of as needed rather than consistent at that point.

373
00:13:13,690 --> 00:13:14,229
OK,

374
00:13:14,309 --> 00:13:15,710
how about Beth R?

375
00:13:16,229 --> 00:13:16,390
Hey,

376
00:13:16,429 --> 00:13:16,710
Brenna.

377
00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:17,619
um,

378
00:13:17,989 --> 00:13:18,200
OK,

379
00:13:18,309 --> 00:13:19,659
my question is,

380
00:13:19,989 --> 00:13:20,369
um,

381
00:13:20,390 --> 00:13:22,479
I'm in Texas so I'm an LPC.

382
00:13:23,109 --> 00:13:23,580
um,

383
00:13:23,989 --> 00:13:24,380
my

384
00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:27,460
long-term goal is to open up a group practice that is strictly

385
00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:28,460
for kids,

386
00:13:28,750 --> 00:13:28,909
um,

387
00:13:28,919 --> 00:13:30,260
strictly CCPT.

388
00:13:31,049 --> 00:13:31,719
And so right now,

389
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,510
I am not pursuing my RPT.

390
00:13:33,830 --> 00:13:34,059
Um,

391
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:34,989
I'm just wondering,

392
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:35,440
you know,

393
00:13:35,479 --> 00:13:36,789
you're talking about impact,

394
00:13:37,119 --> 00:13:38,190
how important

395
00:13:38,359 --> 00:13:39,679
would that be to pursue?

396
00:13:40,539 --> 00:13:41,619
If that's my eventual goal,

397
00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:42,219
I know.

398
00:13:42,390 --> 00:13:42,830
Oh gosh,

399
00:13:43,299 --> 00:13:43,710
sorry,

400
00:13:43,869 --> 00:13:44,489
sorry.

401
00:13:45,229 --> 00:13:45,580
OK,

402
00:13:45,820 --> 00:13:46,669
so,

403
00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:47,590
oh boy.

404
00:13:48,489 --> 00:13:49,190
Let me,

405
00:13:49,349 --> 00:13:49,580
oh,

406
00:13:49,809 --> 00:13:50,169
all right,

407
00:13:50,330 --> 00:13:51,210
I'm treading lightly.

408
00:13:51,369 --> 00:13:51,650
OK.

409
00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:53,700
I am an RPT

410
00:13:54,669 --> 00:13:56,599
I think there is huge value

411
00:13:57,210 --> 00:13:57,880
in

412
00:13:58,450 --> 00:14:00,200
making it known and clear

413
00:14:00,450 --> 00:14:03,760
that you have the appropriate level of training and supervision

414
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,919
and education to do something that you're professing to do.

415
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:07,450
And I,

416
00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:09,719
I would say that's true across all industries.

417
00:14:09,929 --> 00:14:10,090
You know,

418
00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:10,650
if you,

419
00:14:10,729 --> 00:14:11,770
if you are credentialed,

420
00:14:11,869 --> 00:14:13,169
if you have letters after.

421
00:14:13,284 --> 00:14:13,784
Your name,

422
00:14:13,914 --> 00:14:15,984
it means that you have been trained.

423
00:14:16,114 --> 00:14:16,385
So,

424
00:14:16,474 --> 00:14:18,505
I'm very much in favor of

425
00:14:18,955 --> 00:14:20,755
a world in which we know

426
00:14:20,875 --> 00:14:22,914
you are more highly trained than someone that took

427
00:14:22,914 --> 00:14:25,664
a two-hour online training course and calls themselves something.

428
00:14:25,794 --> 00:14:26,184
So,

429
00:14:26,594 --> 00:14:28,114
with that said,

430
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,710
I'm going to pivot a little bit and let's talk about clinical impact.

431
00:14:33,799 --> 00:14:37,250
The only thing parents care about is whether or not you can help their kids.

432
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:40,820
It's all they care about.

433
00:14:41,109 --> 00:14:42,669
They don't care if you're licensed.

434
00:14:42,830 --> 00:14:44,780
They don't care if your master's prepared.

435
00:14:44,909 --> 00:14:46,140
If you have a PhD,

436
00:14:46,270 --> 00:14:50,340
they don't care if you have 8 hours of training or 8000 hours of training.

437
00:14:50,510 --> 00:14:53,020
They don't care what acronyms are after your name.

438
00:14:53,070 --> 00:14:54,479
They don't care about RPT.

439
00:14:54,609 --> 00:14:55,340
In Florida,

440
00:14:55,549 --> 00:14:58,299
RPT doesn't even mean registered play therapist.

441
00:14:58,750 --> 00:15:01,190
So really I have RPT after my name and people think

442
00:15:01,190 --> 00:15:05,549
I'm a physical therapist because Florida's proprietary RPT is physical therapy.

443
00:15:06,349 --> 00:15:07,270
No one cares.

444
00:15:07,429 --> 00:15:10,010
No one has ever once asked me if I'm licensed,

445
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:12,030
no one's ever asked me what my degree is in.

446
00:15:12,190 --> 00:15:14,539
No one's ever asked me what RPT stands for.

447
00:15:14,989 --> 00:15:15,780
Nobody cares.

448
00:15:15,950 --> 00:15:16,239
Why?

449
00:15:16,469 --> 00:15:18,820
Because all they care about is if you can help them.

450
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,539
So while I value

451
00:15:21,859 --> 00:15:22,780
credentialing.

452
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,780
I think if we want impact,

453
00:15:25,989 --> 00:15:27,460
the impact that we have

454
00:15:27,669 --> 00:15:29,900
is we're at the top of our field,

455
00:15:30,190 --> 00:15:31,179
we know our stuff,

456
00:15:31,270 --> 00:15:32,340
we're fully adherent,

457
00:15:32,429 --> 00:15:35,619
we specialize exclusively in CCPT,

458
00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:39,780
and we provide hope and transformation that parents are asking for,

459
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:41,669
and that's all that matters.

460
00:15:41,950 --> 00:15:45,340
If you have a burning desire to have RPT after your name,

461
00:15:45,830 --> 00:15:46,739
go for it.

462
00:15:47,070 --> 00:15:48,960
I don't think it serves any.

463
00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:52,520
Professional purpose in the sense of the impact

464
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,130
that you'll have with children and families.

465
00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:55,330
I think it serves

466
00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:56,280
a

467
00:15:56,729 --> 00:16:00,640
a clinical purpose because there's a distinction that you have,

468
00:16:00,890 --> 00:16:03,200
but in the way of impacting your community,

469
00:16:03,289 --> 00:16:05,239
I don't think it has the weight that

470
00:16:05,789 --> 00:16:07,059
You would worry about it.

471
00:16:08,059 --> 00:16:08,400
OK.

472
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:09,599
Is that,

473
00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:10,549
um,

474
00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:11,000
yes,

475
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,590
I understand and I agree with you 100% on

476
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,469
impact on families and kids.

477
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:16,030
Um,

478
00:16:16,039 --> 00:16:17,880
what about as a business owner,

479
00:16:18,119 --> 00:16:20,619
so having a group practice that is CCPT.

480
00:16:22,119 --> 00:16:25,869
If you know your stuff and you can supervise your clinicians,

481
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,789
and you make them adhere to the model,

482
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,400
and you make sure that everyone is trained exactly

483
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,869
the same way and executes exactly the same way.

484
00:16:33,619 --> 00:16:35,489
It doesn't matter what letters are after your name.

485
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:37,369
OK.

486
00:16:38,330 --> 00:16:38,599
OK,

487
00:16:38,609 --> 00:16:39,460
that is super helpful.

488
00:16:39,549 --> 00:16:40,440
I appreciate it.

489
00:16:40,609 --> 00:16:41,309
You're welcome.

490
00:16:42,679 --> 00:16:43,000
All right,

491
00:16:43,159 --> 00:16:43,520
Mallie.

492
00:16:44,359 --> 00:16:44,919
I am a,

493
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,390
I'm a master's clinical mental health counseling student and I am

494
00:16:48,390 --> 00:16:51,609
about to start my internship with a public school district,

495
00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:52,349
um,

496
00:16:52,359 --> 00:16:54,539
and I recently found out that I'm

497
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:55,989
only going to be seeing

498
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:56,770
uh

499
00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,030
kids ages 11 and up,

500
00:16:59,239 --> 00:17:01,669
and you actually already touched on this with the first question,

501
00:17:01,739 --> 00:17:05,589
but I was just wanted to hear your thoughts on how um CCPT

502
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,430
uh tenants and principals can can apply to,

503
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:09,989
um,

504
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,339
older kids and teens.

505
00:17:11,930 --> 00:17:12,469
Sure.

506
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:12,989
All right,

507
00:17:13,108 --> 00:17:15,060
so sweet spot is 3 to 12,

508
00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:16,910
but it works up to 14.

509
00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:18,560
So 11 to 14,

510
00:17:18,750 --> 00:17:20,098
you're kind of in that.

511
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:22,260
They're developing abstract reasoning,

512
00:17:22,348 --> 00:17:24,910
they're getting a little bit away from all of the emotional,

513
00:17:24,989 --> 00:17:27,420
they have a little bit of cognitive function at that point.

514
00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:28,459
They're a little bit more

515
00:17:28,729 --> 00:17:29,369
Stational,

516
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:29,560
uh,

517
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,900
there's all kinds of shifts that are taking place.

518
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,000
So really what you need to do is you make sure that you have older

519
00:17:36,479 --> 00:17:37,969
child options

520
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,040
in your playroom.

521
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,630
So you want to have games that are well suited for older kids.

522
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,829
You want to have card game options.

523
00:17:44,319 --> 00:17:45,510
Would you rather

524
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,400
game is a really big hit with teens,

525
00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:49,640
thumb balls,

526
00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:51,160
really big hit with teens,

527
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:51,939
bop it,

528
00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:53,709
any kind of like challenging,

529
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:54,079
you know,

530
00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:54,709
like.

531
00:17:55,109 --> 00:17:57,869
The the mazes that are in those sphere and like

532
00:17:57,869 --> 00:18:00,020
you have to follow the ball down the track,

533
00:18:00,030 --> 00:18:00,270
whatever,

534
00:18:00,349 --> 00:18:02,910
like anything that challenges older kids.

535
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:04,760
And really,

536
00:18:05,130 --> 00:18:07,560
the beauty of what we do is

537
00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:12,040
we know from research that as long as a child's hands are actually a human,

538
00:18:12,089 --> 00:18:13,040
doesn't matter what age,

539
00:18:13,170 --> 00:18:16,119
as long as a human being's hands are engaged in doing something,

540
00:18:16,329 --> 00:18:19,719
their inhibitions are lessened and they're more comfortable talking.

541
00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:20,479
So

542
00:18:20,729 --> 00:18:23,290
you could just have a thing of playdough or slime,

543
00:18:23,329 --> 00:18:25,949
and as long as they can just do something with their hands,

544
00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:29,449
they will feel more comfortable than just sitting and quote talking to somebody.

545
00:18:29,969 --> 00:18:32,380
So activity based is the shift.

546
00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:35,140
Make sure you have things that are appropriate for older kids.

547
00:18:35,349 --> 00:18:37,349
Choices jars are really helpful.

548
00:18:37,989 --> 00:18:38,310
Like I said,

549
00:18:38,349 --> 00:18:39,300
the thumb balls.

550
00:18:39,439 --> 00:18:40,839
Older kids like

551
00:18:41,619 --> 00:18:43,170
Active toys as well.

552
00:18:43,339 --> 00:18:46,369
So they will shoot a Nerf gun at a dart.

553
00:18:46,699 --> 00:18:47,020
No,

554
00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:49,140
they will shoot a dart at a target.

555
00:18:49,219 --> 00:18:50,369
I don't know what I just said.

556
00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:51,770
They will

557
00:18:52,540 --> 00:18:55,209
try to do any kind of self challenging type of play,

558
00:18:55,219 --> 00:18:57,890
like get the Velcro on the thing,

559
00:18:58,180 --> 00:18:59,500
they'll do bow and arrows,

560
00:18:59,619 --> 00:19:03,810
they'll do so active play is usually pretty well suited for older kids as well,

561
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:05,609
but be mindful that

562
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:09,489
They're going to do a hybrid of talking and activity,

563
00:19:09,699 --> 00:19:12,849
and that's just the natural progression of working with older kids.

564
00:19:13,219 --> 00:19:13,619
Definitely.

565
00:19:13,699 --> 00:19:13,979
OK,

566
00:19:14,099 --> 00:19:14,849
thank you so much.

567
00:19:15,140 --> 00:19:15,540
Sure.

568
00:19:16,479 --> 00:19:16,839
All right,

569
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,069
Julia H.

570
00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:18,579
Hi,

571
00:19:18,719 --> 00:19:19,489
doctor.brenna.

572
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:20,160
Um,

573
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:21,150
I,

574
00:19:21,239 --> 00:19:21,510
uh,

575
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:22,369
my question was,

576
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:22,680
um,

577
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,270
so I am transitioning from being like a traveling CCPT to,

578
00:19:27,569 --> 00:19:27,829
um,

579
00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:30,229
being in a position where I'll have an office.

580
00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:30,780
Um,

581
00:19:30,790 --> 00:19:34,689
and I was just wondering what your suggestions would be for,

582
00:19:35,079 --> 00:19:35,630
um,

583
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:35,839
you know,

584
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,109
organizing

585
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,000
toys,

586
00:19:38,130 --> 00:19:39,150
toy selection.

587
00:19:39,199 --> 00:19:39,400
I,

588
00:19:39,479 --> 00:19:39,640
you know,

589
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:40,920
I have like a basic kit,

590
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:41,479
but,

591
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:42,550
um,

592
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:42,920
you know,

593
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,150
kind of building that up.

594
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:45,079
And then

595
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,989
part two of the question is also um I'm kind of trying to think through any common

596
00:19:50,439 --> 00:19:54,430
limit setting scenarios so I can be prepared um and not just have to

597
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:55,339
kind of

598
00:19:55,439 --> 00:19:57,400
fly off the handle with that um so.

599
00:19:58,729 --> 00:20:00,489
Differences you can think of,

600
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:00,810
um,

601
00:20:00,819 --> 00:20:02,329
from being in the field to

602
00:20:02,579 --> 00:20:04,609
being in an office based scenario when it comes to

603
00:20:04,819 --> 00:20:05,349
ACT.

604
00:20:06,170 --> 00:20:06,709
OK,

605
00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:06,979
well,

606
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:07,219
that,

607
00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:09,359
let me start with that one because that's an easier one.

608
00:20:09,609 --> 00:20:14,020
You will actually find it far less necessary to set limits in an office.

609
00:20:14,329 --> 00:20:16,770
It is so much easier to regulate the environment,

610
00:20:16,859 --> 00:20:18,199
to control the environment.

611
00:20:18,290 --> 00:20:20,689
They can't run off and do random things.

612
00:20:20,770 --> 00:20:22,640
You're in a closed location.

613
00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:23,930
There's not interruptions,

614
00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:25,479
there's not pets and people,

615
00:20:25,489 --> 00:20:29,890
and it's so much easier to not set limits when you're in an office.

616
00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:32,780
So I actually think you'll find you don't set nearly as many.

617
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:35,219
And really we go back to,

618
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:35,900
I have to be safe,

619
00:20:35,979 --> 00:20:36,579
you have to be safe,

620
00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:38,329
the toys can't be broken on purpose.

621
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:41,510
If none of those scenarios are happening,

622
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,040
you don't even need to set limits.

623
00:20:43,199 --> 00:20:46,310
So your standards are going to be the child's in danger,

624
00:20:46,439 --> 00:20:49,229
they're doing something that could hurt themselves or you,

625
00:20:49,439 --> 00:20:51,869
or they're purposefully doing damage in the playroom.

626
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,270
That really only happens here and there.

627
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:54,829
So,

628
00:20:54,959 --> 00:20:57,859
I mean there are weeks that go by that I don't set one limit

629
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,010
at my office.

630
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,709
So I think you'll find that far easier when you're not traveling anymore.

631
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,260
As far as setting it up,

632
00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:07,130
I think you need to look at the

633
00:21:07,469 --> 00:21:10,979
The layout of the standard CCPT room,

634
00:21:11,030 --> 00:21:13,089
so you want all your acting out aggressive toys together,

635
00:21:13,180 --> 00:21:14,689
you want all your real life toys together,

636
00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:17,050
you want all of your creative artistic toys together,

637
00:21:17,459 --> 00:21:19,030
and then you want to make sure that there's a

638
00:21:19,030 --> 00:21:22,060
rug in the center to indicate the play boundary.

639
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:23,969
And then the rest of it,

640
00:21:24,010 --> 00:21:25,099
you just kind of,

641
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:25,430
you know,

642
00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:26,719
fill in as you go.

643
00:21:26,810 --> 00:21:27,160
However,

644
00:21:27,369 --> 00:21:28,750
here's my number one tip,

645
00:21:29,010 --> 00:21:30,760
your playroom needs to be neutral.

646
00:21:31,050 --> 00:21:31,729
In other words,

647
00:21:31,939 --> 00:21:34,040
don't personalize it for your taste.

648
00:21:34,290 --> 00:21:36,479
Don't put all kinds of artwork on the wall.

649
00:21:36,609 --> 00:21:41,000
Don't put sayings up that are like really friendly and happy about kids.

650
00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:45,579
It's supposed to be any kid can come in and make it their own.

651
00:21:45,869 --> 00:21:49,979
So when play therapists get all excited about quote decorating their playroom,

652
00:21:50,349 --> 00:21:53,900
it actually undermines the neutrality of the room,

653
00:21:54,109 --> 00:21:58,560
which is any kid can come in and it feels like it's a fit for them.

654
00:21:58,709 --> 00:22:00,750
And if you have bright polka dots on the wall,

655
00:22:00,869 --> 00:22:02,069
some kids might hate that.

656
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:03,650
So we just have to be careful,

657
00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:08,089
we set up the toys and we organize the playroom for the clinical aspect of it,

658
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:10,579
but the walls and everything else are meant to

659
00:22:10,579 --> 00:22:13,930
be very plain so that it's CCPT appropriate.

660
00:22:14,219 --> 00:22:15,050
Thank you so much.

661
00:22:15,219 --> 00:22:15,849
You're welcome.

662
00:22:16,339 --> 00:22:16,670
All right,

663
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,540
so

664
00:22:17,979 --> 00:22:19,579
I want to

665
00:22:19,939 --> 00:22:22,030
really quickly before we move on to the next question.

666
00:22:22,510 --> 00:22:26,650
I want to give you the rundown that Maya informed me of here.

667
00:22:26,859 --> 00:22:27,849
So listen to this y'all.

668
00:22:27,979 --> 00:22:28,930
On this call,

669
00:22:29,180 --> 00:22:30,420
we have Netherlands,

670
00:22:30,579 --> 00:22:31,449
Trinidad,

671
00:22:31,819 --> 00:22:32,540
Scotland.

672
00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:35,239
Lots of places in the UK,

673
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:36,510
Australia,

674
00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:37,489
Ireland,

675
00:22:38,020 --> 00:22:38,540
Alabama,

676
00:22:38,579 --> 00:22:38,900
New York,

677
00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:39,420
Georgia,

678
00:22:39,469 --> 00:22:39,859
Maryland,

679
00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:40,449
Colorado,

680
00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:40,939
Illinois,

681
00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:41,410
Indiana,

682
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:41,900
Missouri,

683
00:22:41,979 --> 00:22:42,260
Utah,

684
00:22:42,410 --> 00:22:42,729
Tennessee,

685
00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:43,260
California,

686
00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:43,699
Ohio,

687
00:22:43,819 --> 00:22:44,180
Texas,

688
00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:44,660
Washington,

689
00:22:44,780 --> 00:22:45,449
Virginia.

690
00:22:45,979 --> 00:22:46,579
So exciting.

691
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,300
I love y'all.

692
00:22:47,619 --> 00:22:48,160
OK,

693
00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:52,489
it looks like Brooke and Kimberly both had two questions,

694
00:22:52,699 --> 00:22:53,500
so.

695
00:22:54,619 --> 00:22:56,040
Kimberly H,

696
00:22:56,260 --> 00:22:58,010
if you want to share your second question,

697
00:22:58,140 --> 00:22:59,329
I can address that.

698
00:22:59,739 --> 00:22:59,969
Sure,

699
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:00,540
thanks.

700
00:23:00,699 --> 00:23:01,119
Um,

701
00:23:01,339 --> 00:23:03,500
so you mentioned an episode a while ago talking

702
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:07,609
about diagnoses that you've sometimes used the diagnosis deferred code

703
00:23:07,859 --> 00:23:08,650
if there's like,

704
00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:10,770
I think it was a parent had to submit to insurance.

705
00:23:10,979 --> 00:23:11,180
Um,

706
00:23:11,239 --> 00:23:13,060
could you just speak a little bit more about that?

707
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:13,560
I work for

708
00:23:13,675 --> 00:23:14,525
School program.

709
00:23:14,795 --> 00:23:15,074
Um,

710
00:23:15,155 --> 00:23:17,834
so it's out of my hands that we do have to do a diagnosis.

711
00:23:17,915 --> 00:23:19,785
We do seek reimbursement from Medicaid.

712
00:23:20,074 --> 00:23:23,314
Just some ideas or approaches of how to raise the question of,

713
00:23:23,354 --> 00:23:23,834
hey,

714
00:23:24,314 --> 00:23:25,464
this might be an option.

715
00:23:25,714 --> 00:23:27,364
I imagine pushback would be,

716
00:23:27,454 --> 00:23:27,584
oh,

717
00:23:27,635 --> 00:23:29,035
Medicaid won't accept that,

718
00:23:29,395 --> 00:23:30,354
legally or ethically,

719
00:23:30,395 --> 00:23:32,635
we need to make sure there's medical justification.

720
00:23:33,209 --> 00:23:35,400
As well as just that this is how it's always done,

721
00:23:35,569 --> 00:23:36,849
so it's always gonna be this way.

722
00:23:37,050 --> 00:23:38,569
So just a little bit more about that.

723
00:23:39,020 --> 00:23:39,430
Sure,

724
00:23:39,729 --> 00:23:40,469
so we've,

725
00:23:40,489 --> 00:23:42,839
I have only ever in 20 years,

726
00:23:43,089 --> 00:23:43,489
come

727
00:23:43,969 --> 00:23:44,729
next month.

728
00:23:45,219 --> 00:23:46,209
February 16th,

729
00:23:46,329 --> 00:23:46,969
by the way,

730
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:48,250
come next month,

731
00:23:48,329 --> 00:23:49,520
I am 20 years in,

732
00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:54,079
and I have only ever done diagnosis deferred my entire career.

733
00:23:54,329 --> 00:23:55,199
I have never

734
00:23:55,329 --> 00:23:58,599
had any issue with it being a valid code.

735
00:23:58,699 --> 00:23:58,910
Now,

736
00:23:59,130 --> 00:24:01,439
insurance companies will push back on it because

737
00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:04,599
they don't like people that work around their system,

738
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,959
and a super bill and a diagnosis deferred is a workaround,

739
00:24:07,969 --> 00:24:09,439
and they push back,

740
00:24:09,530 --> 00:24:10,160
of course.

741
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:12,619
But Medicaid will accept it,

742
00:24:12,859 --> 00:24:14,290
insurances will accept it,

743
00:24:14,459 --> 00:24:18,489
and essentially what you're saying is I'm not making a diagnosis at this time.

744
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:21,660
So you're not saying there are no issues,

745
00:24:21,739 --> 00:24:24,339
you're not saying we're doing nothing and there's no

746
00:24:24,339 --> 00:24:26,290
reason for us to even be in therapy.

747
00:24:26,579 --> 00:24:27,630
That's not the implication.

748
00:24:27,670 --> 00:24:31,099
The implication is I'm not making a diagnosis at this time.

749
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,410
And so that's why we use it.

750
00:24:33,469 --> 00:24:36,489
That's why it's a valid deferred code.

751
00:24:37,020 --> 00:24:38,420
And let me see.

752
00:24:39,010 --> 00:24:41,280
What else you had other components of that.

753
00:24:41,479 --> 00:24:41,920
So yeah,

754
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:42,640
you get pushed back,

755
00:24:42,719 --> 00:24:44,790
but it's not because they won't accept the code.

756
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:45,680
They,

757
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:45,920
yes,

758
00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:47,869
parents do not want a diagnosis.

759
00:24:48,199 --> 00:24:50,560
So that's actually one of the reasons we use that,

760
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:52,660
and that's one of the justifications that we give

761
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,109
is if we

762
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,890
go through standard insurance process,

763
00:24:56,959 --> 00:24:58,469
we are required to diagnose,

764
00:24:58,479 --> 00:25:01,030
and that's on a permanent mental health record for a child.

765
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,410
And many parents do not want that.

766
00:25:03,479 --> 00:25:03,670
Now,

767
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,949
the parents that are seeking diagnoses.

768
00:25:06,479 --> 00:25:08,670
They're more than welcome to go get one somewhere else,

769
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,390
but it's not going to come from me.

770
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:11,359
So I,

771
00:25:11,439 --> 00:25:13,000
I make it very clear from the get-go,

772
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,239
I do not diagnose.

773
00:25:14,349 --> 00:25:14,560
I mean,

774
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,630
I'm legally able to,

775
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,430
but I do not diagnose,

776
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,510
and if you need to pursue evaluation or assessment,

777
00:25:21,589 --> 00:25:22,359
that's something that,

778
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:22,599
you know,

779
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,040
you,

780
00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:24,270
you can absolutely do,

781
00:25:24,479 --> 00:25:25,839
but that's not going to come from us.

782
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,930
So I think that that is just kind of that is the standard part of our process.

783
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:31,969
And

784
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:32,939
Yes,

785
00:25:33,180 --> 00:25:33,989
that is very much.

786
00:25:34,020 --> 00:25:34,260
OK,

787
00:25:34,339 --> 00:25:35,170
so I've made a career.

788
00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:36,969
I talk about this all the time on the coaching program.

789
00:25:37,849 --> 00:25:41,869
I've made a career of looking at what everyone does in the industry and what

790
00:25:42,229 --> 00:25:44,219
the standard operating procedure is,

791
00:25:44,270 --> 00:25:45,449
and I go,

792
00:25:45,709 --> 00:25:46,310
but why?

793
00:25:47,010 --> 00:25:50,329
And then I do something else because I think it's better practice.

794
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:53,589
So just because it's common doesn't mean that it's best practice.

795
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,109
And I'm just very,

796
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,069
very purposeful about looking at things and going,

797
00:25:58,489 --> 00:26:00,229
this does not make sense to me.

798
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,540
Why would we do this?

799
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:02,829
There are alternatives.

800
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,069
This seems better,

801
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,900
and then I go in that direction.

802
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,880
So I think that it's important for us to challenge the notion.

803
00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:10,880
Of

804
00:26:11,209 --> 00:26:11,420
look,

805
00:26:11,449 --> 00:26:12,729
it's always done this way,

806
00:26:12,790 --> 00:26:14,920
so there's an expectation that it will be.

807
00:26:15,209 --> 00:26:17,920
I think it's actually our advocacy coming in

808
00:26:18,089 --> 00:26:20,439
to say this kid is 3 years old.

809
00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:25,520
Why in the world would I diagnose this kid at 3 and have that follow him the rest

810
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,250
of his life when we can address this in therapy and he won't even be anxious anymore.

811
00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:33,160
So that's my rationale.

812
00:26:33,199 --> 00:26:34,750
I always share that with parents,

813
00:26:34,819 --> 00:26:35,390
and

814
00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:38,589
99 out of 100 parents are appreciative

815
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,890
that that is our take on

816
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,560
giving a diagnosis deferred.

817
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:44,099
OK,

818
00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:44,780
let me see.

819
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:45,140
Brooke,

820
00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:45,329
um,

821
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:46,849
you have another question as well.

822
00:26:47,020 --> 00:26:47,369
Yeah,

823
00:26:47,550 --> 00:26:48,050
um,

824
00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,089
so my second question was about

825
00:26:51,579 --> 00:26:55,109
how CCPT helps with children whose

826
00:26:55,410 --> 00:26:56,060
Um,

827
00:26:56,550 --> 00:27:01,380
behavioral struggles come from a need for attention due to attachment

828
00:27:01,780 --> 00:27:02,229
issues.

829
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:02,750
Um,

830
00:27:02,790 --> 00:27:02,910
so,

831
00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:03,069
you know,

832
00:27:03,150 --> 00:27:03,790
I know

833
00:27:04,109 --> 00:27:06,260
that CCPT works and I stay adherent,

834
00:27:06,469 --> 00:27:07,699
but I think as far as

835
00:27:08,109 --> 00:27:10,719
more understanding and being able to communicate,

836
00:27:10,829 --> 00:27:11,099
you know,

837
00:27:11,229 --> 00:27:11,699
if

838
00:27:11,989 --> 00:27:14,660
CCPT allows the child to play through,

839
00:27:14,949 --> 00:27:15,109
you know,

840
00:27:15,189 --> 00:27:17,589
whatever they need to regulate their emotions,

841
00:27:17,829 --> 00:27:18,260
um,

842
00:27:18,349 --> 00:27:18,989
I guess

843
00:27:19,229 --> 00:27:22,140
I'm not so confident on how to communicate.

844
00:27:22,790 --> 00:27:25,250
How that happens when the child

845
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:25,989
isn't

846
00:27:26,349 --> 00:27:29,020
showing those same behaviors during sessions because there

847
00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:31,500
is that one on one attention and attunement,

848
00:27:31,709 --> 00:27:32,959
and so they're being

849
00:27:33,199 --> 00:27:34,579
sort of soothed by that.

850
00:27:35,229 --> 00:27:38,280
And not able to sort of practice regulating

851
00:27:38,810 --> 00:27:40,290
when that's not available.

852
00:27:41,439 --> 00:27:41,829
Sure,

853
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:42,930
so

854
00:27:43,239 --> 00:27:45,000
that's actually a multi-layered question,

855
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,640
so I'll do my best to unpack it.

856
00:27:47,410 --> 00:27:50,599
I think first and foremost we understand that CCPT

857
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:52,989
works because of the relationship and the environment,

858
00:27:53,079 --> 00:27:53,199
right?

859
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,229
It's a unique environment and it's a unique relationship.

860
00:27:56,839 --> 00:27:58,239
Self-actualization,

861
00:27:58,319 --> 00:27:59,989
the core conditions,

862
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:01,359
Rogers,

863
00:28:01,439 --> 00:28:05,869
tenets of these are the things required for us to self-actualize.

864
00:28:06,069 --> 00:28:06,469
So

865
00:28:06,959 --> 00:28:10,530
it doesn't really matter that it's isolated to the playroom.

866
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,520
There will inevitably be carryover as the child self-actualizes.

867
00:28:14,890 --> 00:28:17,400
So that is like an irreversible process.

868
00:28:17,569 --> 00:28:20,060
As the child becomes a better version of themselves,

869
00:28:20,189 --> 00:28:23,349
it spills into all of these other arenas and environments and relationships,

870
00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:23,709
etc.

871
00:28:23,910 --> 00:28:27,050
So it's predicated on self-actualization takes place.

872
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:28,020
However,

873
00:28:28,109 --> 00:28:29,510
I agree with you that

874
00:28:29,709 --> 00:28:31,140
in that controlled environment,

875
00:28:31,170 --> 00:28:35,189
it is easy for a child sometimes to make gains and make changes

876
00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:36,500
and experience that,

877
00:28:36,550 --> 00:28:38,810
and then when they're thrust into other scenarios,

878
00:28:38,829 --> 00:28:39,660
it is harder.

879
00:28:39,949 --> 00:28:40,349
But

880
00:28:40,869 --> 00:28:42,390
playroom is the practice ground.

881
00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:44,930
So as the child is learning this,

882
00:28:45,099 --> 00:28:45,939
building the skills,

883
00:28:46,099 --> 00:28:47,040
feeling capable,

884
00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:48,489
testing what it feels like,

885
00:28:48,619 --> 00:28:48,910
look,

886
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:51,250
trying out new skills is exhausting,

887
00:28:51,459 --> 00:28:54,770
and kids cannot sustain that when they don't have the,

888
00:28:55,060 --> 00:28:57,619
the scenario that makes it easiest for them to do it.

889
00:28:57,780 --> 00:28:59,609
So they're going to practice with you.

890
00:28:59,989 --> 00:29:01,489
will eventually

891
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:04,359
go into all of the other arenas of their life,

892
00:29:04,459 --> 00:29:07,410
but they have to feel equipped and ready and prepared

893
00:29:07,979 --> 00:29:08,410
for

894
00:29:08,619 --> 00:29:09,010
the,

895
00:29:09,099 --> 00:29:09,380
OK,

896
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:10,880
now I'm gonna try it at home.

897
00:29:10,979 --> 00:29:12,810
Now I'm gonna try it in this relationship.

898
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:14,170
Now I'm going to try it here.

899
00:29:14,380 --> 00:29:17,000
So I think explaining that is usually very helpful,

900
00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:20,800
that it's a practice ground where nothing matters,

901
00:29:20,859 --> 00:29:22,219
so that when it does matter,

902
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:24,449
they feel more equipped and confident.

903
00:29:24,979 --> 00:29:26,689
And then I think the,

904
00:29:26,699 --> 00:29:29,430
the big picture of the whole thing is

905
00:29:30,140 --> 00:29:31,380
When it's just attachment,

906
00:29:31,459 --> 00:29:32,170
especially,

907
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:37,930
the relationship is so important with all of the other people in that child's life.

908
00:29:38,099 --> 00:29:40,170
And that's where the advocacy comes in

909
00:29:40,170 --> 00:29:43,449
and the psycho education for other adults because

910
00:29:43,939 --> 00:29:44,939
we can't ever expect,

911
00:29:44,979 --> 00:29:45,770
this is my,

912
00:29:45,939 --> 00:29:46,030
I,

913
00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:49,219
I'm glad I'm actually live cause I do this when I podcast and you never see it.

914
00:29:49,630 --> 00:29:52,260
So kid starts here and parent starts here.

915
00:29:52,589 --> 00:29:53,949
kid makes all this progress,

916
00:29:54,050 --> 00:29:54,660
all this work,

917
00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:56,420
does all of this stuff in therapy.

918
00:29:56,589 --> 00:30:00,459
There's only ever going to be a midline where the child can get to.

919
00:30:00,989 --> 00:30:01,219
If,

920
00:30:01,229 --> 00:30:01,949
if adults,

921
00:30:02,069 --> 00:30:02,630
caregivers,

922
00:30:02,829 --> 00:30:04,660
other stakeholders never move

923
00:30:04,989 --> 00:30:07,619
and they just want the child to get better,

924
00:30:07,869 --> 00:30:08,069
well,

925
00:30:08,189 --> 00:30:09,270
there's still this gap.

926
00:30:09,930 --> 00:30:14,800
So what we always want is parents actually do their work and parents put

927
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,599
in the time and the energy and the effort and they make changes.

928
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,500
Now the client is the change agent in the family unequivocally.

929
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,119
It's the,

930
00:30:22,199 --> 00:30:23,709
it's the legal scales of justice,

931
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:24,170
right?

932
00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:28,189
So when the child starts to make changes and adds a pebble or takes a pebble away,

933
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,150
it naturally forces the other side to change too.

934
00:30:31,359 --> 00:30:34,640
So there is an element of change begets change.

935
00:30:35,140 --> 00:30:35,770
Yet

936
00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:38,750
we have this sense of kids going to move,

937
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,829
and if the other person in the child's life doesn't move,

938
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:42,790
doesn't budge,

939
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,790
there's always going to be a gap.

940
00:30:44,959 --> 00:30:47,310
So especially for attachment related stuff,

941
00:30:47,589 --> 00:30:50,310
the kid needs the other people in their world

942
00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:54,910
to put in the time and the investment into the relationship and into healing as well.

943
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,900
So that's where you advocate for that in the parent consults and you

944
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:02,319
really stress how important it is that they're making changes as well.

945
00:31:04,349 --> 00:31:05,260
Is that helpful?

946
00:31:05,589 --> 00:31:05,709
Yeah,

947
00:31:05,869 --> 00:31:06,229
wonderful.

948
00:31:06,349 --> 00:31:07,189
Thank you so much.

949
00:31:07,390 --> 00:31:07,869
You're welcome.

950
00:31:08,890 --> 00:31:10,400
I think I've got maybe,

951
00:31:10,609 --> 00:31:10,849
OK,

952
00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:11,489
Terry,

953
00:31:11,729 --> 00:31:12,839
you have a question.

954
00:31:13,209 --> 00:31:13,800
Hello.

955
00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:15,089
Nice to see you.

956
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:16,660
You too.

957
00:31:16,689 --> 00:31:17,469
Um,

958
00:31:17,689 --> 00:31:17,810
yeah,

959
00:31:17,890 --> 00:31:18,680
my question,

960
00:31:18,729 --> 00:31:19,869
I forgot now I have a few,

961
00:31:19,930 --> 00:31:22,319
but I'll only ask the one because I only asked for one.

962
00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:24,109
So

963
00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:26,270
when a child is doing role play

964
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,349
and you're not invited into the role play,

965
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,760
but they're playing out a couple of characters which you know are meaningful,

966
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,189
I'm going to use an example,

967
00:31:35,439 --> 00:31:38,670
say they're playing out the mother and the child and maybe

968
00:31:38,959 --> 00:31:39,709
a sibling,

969
00:31:39,949 --> 00:31:41,750
and they're playing all those roles,

970
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:42,479
um.

971
00:31:44,219 --> 00:31:45,650
Which one are you going to focus on?

972
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:48,500
Or are you going to focus on it's quite hard to

973
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:51,729
obviously when it's a natural narrative and it's going quite fast,

974
00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:52,729
um,

975
00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:54,329
which one you're going to reflect?

976
00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:57,109
Or don't you reflect any of them?

977
00:31:57,119 --> 00:31:59,510
Or do you reflect the whole content when it's finished?

978
00:32:00,790 --> 00:32:05,790
You actually are going to transition to reflective responses in the third person.

979
00:32:06,609 --> 00:32:08,589
So as the child is saying,

980
00:32:08,660 --> 00:32:09,180
like,

981
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:09,589
you know,

982
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:10,869
or not even saying anything,

983
00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:11,979
sometimes they're just acting it out.

984
00:32:11,989 --> 00:32:12,780
So like the mom,

985
00:32:12,869 --> 00:32:13,089
but,

986
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:14,920
but if you know who the characters are,

987
00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:15,270
right,

988
00:32:15,349 --> 00:32:16,660
if the child has made it clear,

989
00:32:17,030 --> 00:32:17,339
OK,

990
00:32:17,479 --> 00:32:19,520
so then in that case you're going to just refer

991
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,780
to all of your responses in the third person.

992
00:32:21,989 --> 00:32:23,839
So if the child was actually doing it,

993
00:32:23,869 --> 00:32:24,939
you would say you,

994
00:32:25,069 --> 00:32:25,300
right?

995
00:32:25,369 --> 00:32:26,390
Like you're excited,

996
00:32:26,550 --> 00:32:27,459
you went over there,

997
00:32:27,510 --> 00:32:28,380
you did this.

998
00:32:28,709 --> 00:32:29,959
Now that it's role play,

999
00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:30,270
you.

1000
00:32:30,689 --> 00:32:31,560
a third person.

1001
00:32:31,770 --> 00:32:32,010
Oh,

1002
00:32:32,069 --> 00:32:35,119
the mom went over there and the sister's angry,

1003
00:32:35,369 --> 00:32:37,079
and the dad said this,

1004
00:32:37,290 --> 00:32:38,930
and you're still track behavior,

1005
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:39,650
reflect content,

1006
00:32:39,849 --> 00:32:40,530
reflect feelings,

1007
00:32:40,650 --> 00:32:42,640
but it shifts to third person

1008
00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:47,400
because now you're acknowledging who each person is in the play.

1009
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,560
And then if ever the child takes ownership again,

1010
00:32:50,729 --> 00:32:52,680
then you transition back to first person,

1011
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,089
and then it just becomes you.

1012
00:32:55,189 --> 00:32:55,199
Right.

1013
00:32:56,439 --> 00:32:56,760
OK.

1014
00:32:56,859 --> 00:32:59,300
So if you don't know who the characters are,

1015
00:32:59,339 --> 00:33:00,780
which with somebody else,

1016
00:33:00,819 --> 00:33:02,349
it could be that you don't know.

1017
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,770
You know that there's a parent child,

1018
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:05,739
but you don't know.

1019
00:33:07,349 --> 00:33:09,560
Then you say that one or they

1020
00:33:10,349 --> 00:33:10,479
like,

1021
00:33:10,510 --> 00:33:10,780
oh,

1022
00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:14,160
that one got really upset or they went over there,

1023
00:33:14,229 --> 00:33:15,140
so it's still

1024
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:16,140
neutral,

1025
00:33:16,550 --> 00:33:18,270
but you make it known that you're

1026
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:21,260
following exactly what's transpiring in the narrative.

1027
00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:22,660
Perfect.

1028
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,439
Can I ask one more while I have you?

1029
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:24,760
Sure.

1030
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:25,719
Thank you.

1031
00:33:25,859 --> 00:33:26,390
Um,

1032
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,859
so I was listening to your recent podcast there

1033
00:33:29,859 --> 00:33:33,339
with regard to children that use self depreciating language

1034
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,390
about themselves.

1035
00:33:34,439 --> 00:33:35,510
It was only the other day,

1036
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,030
I think,

1037
00:33:36,199 --> 00:33:36,520
um.

1038
00:33:37,790 --> 00:33:39,219
And you

1039
00:33:39,439 --> 00:33:40,680
had said that

1040
00:33:41,030 --> 00:33:42,260
the child,

1041
00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:43,219
um,

1042
00:33:43,589 --> 00:33:46,369
the underlying reason behind that was low self esteem

1043
00:33:46,790 --> 00:33:47,579
and,

1044
00:33:47,589 --> 00:33:48,390
um,

1045
00:33:49,150 --> 00:33:49,780
I

1046
00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:52,699
and the child was reflect uh was talking about something that

1047
00:33:52,699 --> 00:33:55,089
they were doing or that they couldn't do in the moment.

1048
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:56,189
Uh,

1049
00:33:56,319 --> 00:33:57,989
maybe they were failing at something.

1050
00:33:58,609 --> 00:34:01,550
I was wondering if you had if you had a child that

1051
00:34:01,819 --> 00:34:03,709
use self depreciating

1052
00:34:04,219 --> 00:34:05,119
statements.

1053
00:34:05,849 --> 00:34:09,629
And looking at you and almost to get your attention rather than,

1054
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:09,889
oh,

1055
00:34:09,899 --> 00:34:11,070
I'm not good at this,

1056
00:34:11,438 --> 00:34:12,320
looking at you,

1057
00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:12,989
or,

1058
00:34:13,399 --> 00:34:13,978
um,

1059
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,000
I know this isn't going to work out looking at you.

1060
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,659
So it's less about

1061
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,949
the thing they're doing and more about,

1062
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:21,830
will you tell me I am good.

1063
00:34:22,129 --> 00:34:23,639
Will you give me some feedback.

1064
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,668
So it's a kind of a bit of a different

1065
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,728
reason for self depreciating.

1066
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:28,668
And I was wondering if

1067
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,570
your response is different because of that,

1068
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:33,320
if that's what you're picking up.

1069
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:34,310
Well,

1070
00:34:34,510 --> 00:34:38,260
so I would actually argue that it is still rooted in the same issue.

1071
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:38,728
Yes,

1072
00:34:38,909 --> 00:34:39,510
so

1073
00:34:39,790 --> 00:34:41,909
they're they're validation seeking,

1074
00:34:41,989 --> 00:34:43,149
they're attention seeking,

1075
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:43,429
they,

1076
00:34:43,790 --> 00:34:46,030
I need you to tell me that I'm good.

1077
00:34:46,110 --> 00:34:48,060
I need you to tell me that I'm capable.

1078
00:34:48,350 --> 00:34:51,790
So really what that tells me is they've probably been overpraised.

1079
00:34:52,678 --> 00:34:56,197
And their internal locus of control is nonexistent.

1080
00:34:56,408 --> 00:34:57,188
So in other words,

1081
00:34:57,329 --> 00:34:58,259
they learn

1082
00:34:58,448 --> 00:35:01,458
that I only have value and I only have worth,

1083
00:35:01,529 --> 00:35:04,718
and I'm only good at something if someone tells me

1084
00:35:05,009 --> 00:35:06,839
that I have it or that I am.

1085
00:35:07,179 --> 00:35:11,060
So now they're in this condition pattern of waiting to be validated,

1086
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:12,350
waiting to be praised,

1087
00:35:12,469 --> 00:35:13,699
waiting to be acknowledged.

1088
00:35:14,389 --> 00:35:14,909
So

1089
00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:18,179
it actually is still rooted in no sense of identity and self-worth,

1090
00:35:18,909 --> 00:35:20,419
and they've been overpraised.

1091
00:35:20,669 --> 00:35:24,209
So the antidote is obviously encouragement in the playroom always.

1092
00:35:24,389 --> 00:35:25,060
So we,

1093
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:26,260
with that kind of kid,

1094
00:35:26,270 --> 00:35:27,629
we over esteem build,

1095
00:35:27,709 --> 00:35:30,149
we over encourage as much as possible.

1096
00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:33,820
And then the second piece of do we respond differently?

1097
00:35:33,989 --> 00:35:34,530
No.

1098
00:35:35,070 --> 00:35:37,459
You might acknowledge that the child is

1099
00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:39,580
seeking a reaction.

1100
00:35:39,709 --> 00:35:39,989
Like,

1101
00:35:40,110 --> 00:35:40,350
hmm,

1102
00:35:40,429 --> 00:35:43,000
it seems like you're looking at me to see what I think.

1103
00:35:43,350 --> 00:35:45,669
So you might acknowledge that the child is doing it,

1104
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:46,780
but you don't

1105
00:35:47,189 --> 00:35:48,620
give in to that

1106
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:51,860
because all that does is reinforce the nature of

1107
00:35:52,110 --> 00:35:55,070
I only think that I'm good if someone tells me that I am.

1108
00:35:55,860 --> 00:35:56,419
OK.

1109
00:35:57,489 --> 00:35:57,860
Gotcha.

1110
00:35:58,679 --> 00:35:59,310
OK.

1111
00:35:59,550 --> 00:36:00,350
You're welcome.

1112
00:36:00,790 --> 00:36:01,110
OK,

1113
00:36:01,270 --> 00:36:02,580
so I know we're out of time.

1114
00:36:02,709 --> 00:36:02,909
If,

1115
00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:05,469
if you all are able and willing to stay on,

1116
00:36:05,550 --> 00:36:06,830
I can keep answering questions.

1117
00:36:06,909 --> 00:36:07,830
A few more have come in.

1118
00:36:07,870 --> 00:36:08,860
If you need to hop off,

1119
00:36:08,909 --> 00:36:10,139
I completely understand.

1120
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:11,459
Above all,

1121
00:36:11,669 --> 00:36:12,979
thank you so much for being here.

1122
00:36:13,110 --> 00:36:14,189
We're gonna do more of these.

1123
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:15,500
I'm really looking forward to this.

1124
00:36:15,550 --> 00:36:17,629
You all mean a lot to me and I'm really grateful.

1125
00:36:17,909 --> 00:36:18,320
OK.

1126
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:19,110
I think we did it,

1127
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:19,389
y'all,

1128
00:36:19,439 --> 00:36:21,050
and it was only 1 hour and 25 minutes,

1129
00:36:21,110 --> 00:36:21,590
so that was,

1130
00:36:21,629 --> 00:36:22,590
that was better than I thought.

1131
00:36:23,010 --> 00:36:23,030
All right,

1132
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,590
thank you all so much for being here.

1133
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,030
Eric has given you the link for the presentation,

1134
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:30,679
so if you would like to watch that,

1135
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:31,580
please do.

1136
00:36:31,919 --> 00:36:36,280
I think it will open your mind to a lot of stuff related to impact even.

1137
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:37,429
So I'm really,

1138
00:36:37,439 --> 00:36:38,290
really appreciative.

1139
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,469
We will do this again,

1140
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:40,669
so tell your friends,

1141
00:36:40,879 --> 00:36:42,830
get your colleagues to sign up next time.

1142
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,000
We'll do this again soon and I'm super grateful for you all.

1143
00:36:46,159 --> 00:36:48,639
Have a wonderful weekend and thanks for being here.

1144
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:52,399
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

1145
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:53,479
Brenna Hicks.

1146
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:55,600
For more episodes and resources,

1147
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,479
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.