AvTalk Episode 324: Five flights to nowhere

AVT 324 Transcript
EPISODE 324
[EPISODE]
[0:00:08] IP: Hello, and welcome to episode 324 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik, here as always
with –
[0:00:17] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Hello, Ian. How are you?
[0:00:20] IP: I'm doing well, Jason. How are you?
[0:00:23] JR: I’m good, thank you.
[0:00:24] IP: You've had an aviation-filled week, even more so than usual.
[0:00:30] JR: Yeah. I mean, I haven't really gone anywhere, other than I went to London, on
work. We have an office at London. Well, I guess it's not really London. It's at Heathrow, about
as close to the runway as you could get, without actually being on the airport. I participated in
some meetings and was distracted some of the time. No big deal.
[0:00:52] IP: I believe some of the time might be underselling based on the amount of photos
that I've been sent this week.
[0:00:57] JR: Yes, except for today, where they flipped the runways around, because the wind
had shifted. Everything is landing way down on the other side of the runway. We don't really get
to see anything. But when the wind is blowing, I guess, out of the east, everything, if they're
landing on this side of the complex, everything touches down, basically directly in front of the
windows in the office.
I mean, everything touches down at that spot and it's Heathrow. It's one of the busiest airports in
the world and one of the most varied airports in the world, so that you see a lot of things here
that I just don't get to see at home. I may have parked myself in front of the window, and every
© 2025 AvTalk 1
AVT 324 Transcript
two minutes when a plane lands, I’ve got to stop, look at the window, and take a picture, take a
video. It's very important to remember what we're all here for.
[0:01:45] IP: Exactly.
[0:01:46] JR: But it was good. I enjoyed it. Very productive stuff for that couple of moments –
[0:01:51] IP: You flew to London.
[0:01:52] JR: I did.
[0:01:54] IP: Normally I ask, what kind of aircraft did you fly, but today I'm going to ask, what
was the name of the plane?
[0:02:00] JR: The name of the plane was the most appropriate name to fly to the UK on. I flew
on an airplane named Minty McMintface. Pause for silence.
[0:02:13] IP: There it is.
[0:02:14] JR: Pause for silence. For those who are probably wondering, what the heck is he
talking about, JetBlue, who I flew here, names every one of its aircraft. Most of them have the
word blue in it, JetBlue. They have the word blue in it. For their mint-equipped air face. Air face.
Aircraft.
[0:02:34] IP: Air face. I like it.
[0:02:35] JR: They usually have the word mint in there somewhere, and this aircraft was named
Minty McMintface. It's on the nose of the plane. It's on the IFE system. It says, “Welcome
aboard. Today, you're flying on Minty McMintface.” I was very disappointed that the cabin crew
who usually calls out on the PA and the welcome onboard announcement mentions the name of
the aircraft. They did not announce, “Welcome aboard Minty McMintface.”
[0:03:04] IP: Oh. That’s a bummer.
© 2025 AvTalk 2
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:03:06] JR: Unfortunately, that will not be my aircraft home tomorrow, so I won't get another
go on Minty McMintface. But what can you do?
[0:03:14] IP: You can't win them all.
[0:03:15] JR: No. One of their rare aircraft, actually, that doesn't have a name that is either blue,
or mint, it's named after Joel Peterson, so it's not funny at all, but that's okay.
[0:03:26] IP: Well, it'll be a nice ride home.
[0:03:28] JR: Yeah. It was my first time in business class on a long-haul narrowbody aircraft. I
quite enjoyed it and I know we've talked about this before and a lot of people are petrified of the
idea, but I enjoyed my time.
[0:03:42] IP: Excellent. We'll have to talk more about it next week after you've had a return
flight. We'll get into that then. Let's get on to the news. As of today, Wednesday, June 11th, Silver
Airways has ceased operations. This was the ATR operator out of Fort Lauderdale and Tampa,
and they operated to other Florida destinations, as well as places in the Caribbean, in the
Bahamas, and they also operated a seaplane route. I'm not sure if that has been affected, or if
it's just the whole thing.
Silver said, “In an attempt to restructure in bankruptcy,” which they declared late last year,
“Silver entered into a transaction to sell its assets to another airline holding company, who
unfortunately has determined to not continue Silver's flight operations in Florida, the Bahamas,
and the Caribbean. Please do not go to the airport.” Then the airline says, “All credit card
purchases should be refundable through your credit card company, or your travel agency.”
[0:04:51] JR: Yeah, sad. But Silver had been circling the drain for seemingly ever. It's funny, you
introduced them as the ATR operator, but for the majority of its existence, I think it was a Saab
340 operator. The ATRs were only in the last couple of years. I think, I remember they had them
introduced in 2019, and they were sitting around for quite a while as they were able to put them
into service for some reason. Towards the end, they were ATRs only. One of the only ATR
© 2025 AvTalk 3
AVT 324 Transcript
operators, really, in the US or Canada at all. Silver had been just circling the drain for as long as
I can remember.
[0:05:33] IP: Yeah. I mean, not an extensive route network. Not an extensive fleet. Many of their
aircraft had left the fleet in recent months. Some even before the bankruptcy filing in December,
and then many between then and now. They were left with, as of yesterday, I believe one, two,
three, seven aircraft operated yesterday. Then that's out of 14 that they had in their fleet as of
late. Not a huge airline, but one that did a lot of connecting between Florida and the Caribbean
and Florida and Bahamas. It'll be interesting to see if anything moves in to fill that space.
[0:06:17] JR: Yeah. I would imagine just the majors will reintroduce themselves, and that will be
that.
[0:06:24] IP: Also, ceasing operations is Jetstar Asia. This is –
[0:06:28] JR: Very soon. Very soon.
[0:06:30] IP: Well, they're scheduled to cease operations. The last flight for Jetstar Asia will take
place on the 31st of July. The balance of the aircraft will be moved over to Jetstar proper.
Qantas, which is the parent company of Jetstar, has been losing money. Jetstar Asia will have
lost money with the fiscal year that ends at the end of this month. They've decided to, in the face
of, well, I mean, it's the story of the low-cost carrier, right? Rising supplier costs, rising
operational costs, and increased competition. At some point, you can no longer be a low-cost
carrier. Then, you either adapt, or you don't, and you get shut away and get sent off to other
airlines.
[0:07:18] JR: Importantly, this is Jetstar Asia, the Singaporean-based offshoot of Jetstar does
not Jetstar proper in Australia. It's not Jetstar Japan, but it's yet another Jetstar that's no longer
a Jetstar. There was previously Jetstar Pacific, which I flew. That was the Vietnamese sub-
carrier, which then became some other thing on by Vietnam Airlines. Or running at Jetstars. I
think what is notable here is how quick the wind down is and how little run up there was to this
announcement. I hadn't heard much rumor, speculation about this and all of a sudden, see how
© 2025 AvTalk 4
AVT 324 Transcript
we're done in a month and a half from now. If you have a flight booked on or after July 31st of
this year, you don't anymore. Here's your money back. Good luck. Not great.
These things, if you're winding out of business, usually there's a lot more lead up to it. Unless,
it’s we have run out of money and we can no longer operate the business. We don't want to run
the business anymore, so we're not going to. Not great to put customers out like that. But
they're refunding everyone. If you have vouchers, they'll refund that. If you were previously
booked on Jetstar Asia, you're probably not too happy that you now have to scramble for
alternate transportation, which could be substantially more expensive.
[0:08:34] IP: Yeah. I mean, I think that's always the thing there is that sure, they're refunding the
money that you paid them. But there's maybe a 1% chance that you can find a ticket at roughly
the same price. I mean, especially if you're booking closer in.
[0:08:50] JR: Shout out for travel insurance, I guess. I don't even really know if it covers my
airline doesn't exist anymore. I'm sure some do, and some don't.
[0:08:59] IP: Yeah, exactly. If you have travel insurance, check your policy. Let's see, the NTSB
issued a preliminary report on the American Airlines 737 fire in Denver that occurred on the 13th
of March. There were 12 minor injuries. No one was seriously injured. This was a fire on the
right-hand side of the aircraft, because of the number two engine after landing. This was a flight
from Colorado Springs to Dallas, the aircraft diverted to Denver. As they were taxiing to the
gate, there was the notice of fire. Fire ensued in the area of the number two engine and the
passengers and crew evacuated the airplane.
The captain noted high engine vibration indications for the right engine. That was when they
decided that they were going to divert to Denver, thanks to the long runways available and other
facilities. There's a few things here. One of the things, and I think we've talked about this
recently, is that there was difficulty communicating between the cabin crew and the flight crew.
The passengers were the first to say, “Hey, the airplane's on fire.” The flight attendants try and
call the flight deck. They don't get an answer. Then the flight attendant bangs on the flight deck
door. They don't get an answer. Passengers get up and they want to get off the plane. The flight
attendants commanded the evacuation of the aircraft.
© 2025 AvTalk 5
AVT 324 Transcript
They used the L1 door, which was already attached to the jet bridge. Both of the left overwing
exits and the R2 door. The L2 door was observed open, and the escape slide became jammed
in the door, preventing its operation, but the R2 door slide deployed as it was supposed to. The
NTSB investigation has found a few different things, and we are again back in Rockwell turbo-
encabulator territory, as I'll read through this. The NTSB report says, “The right engine was
examined and all the engine fan blades were present. But one fan-blade platform was fractured.
In addition, the lock wire of a fuel fitting on the variable stator vein was loose and installed in the
incorrect direction. The VSB actuator rod was incorrectly fastened and secured to the VSB
actuator, allowing fuel to leak from the fitting. The VSB rod end muscle line was fractured in the
weld, and the 6.00 seal drain line on the inboard thrust reverser half was blocked with sealant
above the lower bifurcation fire seal and in the exit tube.”
[0:11:54] JR: I feel like, you just went through aviation mechanic mad libs. Those words, I
understand all of those words individually. But put together, none of that has any meaning to
me.
[0:12:06] IP: Yes. Long story short, the investigation is focusing on the maintenance that was
performed on the right-hand engine of this particular aircraft. Because not only did things break,
but there were pieces of the engine installed incorrectly. The NTSB is looking at the
maintenance on that particular engine to understand what went into maintaining the engine and
how those pieces came to be installed incorrectly.
The NTSB has retained a bunch of things, including that L2 slide, because it was caught in the
door frame. The NTSB says, that it was removed from its bustle and on the floor of the L2
passageway with its safety pin installed. The slide pack was inspected and the bannis latch,
we've talked about bannis latches before.
[0:12:55] JR: Yes, we have.
[0:12:57] IP: The bannis latch was found to move freely. Okay, that's good news. Some dark
scuffs on the outboard side of the pack, and there was a tear on the underside of the girt fabric
towards the center. You don't want tears in your girt fabric, Jason.
© 2025 AvTalk 6
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:13:09] JR: You don't. I don't know what any of that is, but, yeah. I can identify when you don't
want something.
[0:13:15] IP: Yes, there is that. Just a preliminary report. But we'll toss the link in the show
notes, because it does have some good pictures of the engine and the damage to the aircraft.
That aircraft has since already been repaired and is I believe scheduled to return to service
relatively soon. Let's do a quick check to see if it's back in service, or not. Survey says, no. It
was flown earlier this week, or late last week from Denver to Peru, Indiana, which is where
American performs a lot of its aircraft painting. I would expect to see that aircraft ferry out to
Chicago after it's done painting and then reenter service.
[0:13:59] JR: Let's maybe a little touch-up.
[0:14:00] IP: Just a bit of a touch-up. Yup.
[0:14:02] JR: Coat over the char.
[0:14:04] IP: Yeah, exactly. Well, they got rid of the char completely. They replaced the outer
panels and then off it goes for paint. Let's switch gears and now move into Airbus and Boeing
orders and deliveries for the month of May, because we are getting ready. Hopefully, I think for a
couple big orders at the Paris Air Show next week. But we'll talk more about that in just a little
bit. Jason?
[0:14:28] JR: Yes.
[0:14:29] IP: I'm going to give you a quiz.
[0:14:31] JR: Okay.
[0:14:32] IP: How many orders did Airbus take in during the month of May?
[0:14:39] JR: 752 and a half.
© 2025 AvTalk 7
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:14:41] IP: I'm curious to understand how you order half a plane.
[0:14:45] JR: Well, I mean, if you order anything with a Pratt & Whitney engine, you're probably
getting maybe half a plane, so –
[0:14:50] IP: Ouch. Ouch.
[0:14:52] JR: Ouch. I'm only a little bitter, because I'm supposed to fly on an Air Canada A220
later this week. Now it's a janky, old A319, probably because Air Canada doesn't have enough
working A220s, so I had to get that jab in there. You know what the actual number was.
[0:15:06] IP: What's the actual number?
[0:15:08] JR: Zero.
[0:15:09] IP: Zero.
[0:15:08] JR: The first time I believe, and I looked at all the order logs for Airbus, the first time
Airbus has clocked zero new orders for a month since quiz for you, since when?
[0:15:22] IP: I'm going to say, since deep COVID. 2021. 2021, I'll say.
[0:15:28] JR: No. August 2022. Well, into the, “Oh, my God. We need more airplanes.” After the
days of COVID.
[0:15:35] IP: Interesting.
[0:15:37] JR: Oddly, August 2022, no orders for Airbus that month. First time since then. I would
expect June is going to be quite a bit busier for Airbus.
[0:15:46] IP: Yes.
© 2025 AvTalk 8
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:15:46] JR: They're saving the good stuff for next month.
[0:15:48] IP: There you go. No orders in May, but also no cancellation. They were net zero on
the month. Airbus delivered 51 aircraft, three A350-900s, three A330-900s, 40 A320neo family
aircraft, and five A220s.
[0:16:08] JR: I don't think we have to say neo family aircraft anymore. If they're still delivering a
CO, I have some questions.
[0:16:14] IP: Then it's a thing, right?
[0:16:15] JR: That would be impressive.
[0:16:17] IP: Yeah.
[0:16:19] JR: Then there's Boeing.
[0:16:19] IP: Yeah. Boeing for its part did not save up for June, though it could still be getting
ready to top this. It took in 303 orders during the month of May, which is the most since last
Paris Air Show in June of 2023. The bulk of that order book was the big Qatar airways order that
was announced in Doha last month. That was 120 787s, and 30 777-9s. That's down from 160
aircraft, because the 10 that went away were previously undisclosed. Those have now been
accounted for and announced. Undisclosed airlines purchased seven 787s during the month of
May. Boeing took in orders for 146 737 Max aircraft, 119 to undisclosed airlines, 20 by AviLease,
and seven to WestJet.
[0:17:22] JR: 146 737 MAX just out of the blue and 119 going to something, somewhere.
[0:17:30] IP: Somewhere.
[0:17:31] JR: Those are air show numbers. Not just a random month in the year numbers.
That's impressive.
© 2025 AvTalk 9
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:17:37] IP: It's odd, because that's a pre-air show month.
[0:17:40] JR: Yeah. I wonder if the 119 is all for one carrier, or several, or many, or is there
really one giant undisclosed order there of 119? Maybe we'll see an order for 119 aircraft
revealed next month.
[0:17:55] IP: Exactly. Or multiple orders for smaller numbers revealed, not next month, next
week.
[0:18:01] JR: Next week. Yes.
[0:18:03] IP: Yeah. Also, of note with Boeing, 737 MAX production is now at 38 per month,
which is the rate limit set by the FAA. The FAA for its part, they’re in no rush to increase the
available rate for Boeing. Boeing says, that by the end of the year, it wants to be able to
increase that rate, but they're not rushing things, which is probably a good idea.
In May, 31 MAX delivered, one P8, which is the maritime surveillance aircraft based on the
Franken plane based on the 737NG with all sorts of modifications, one 767 freighter, five 777
freighters and seven 787s. A solid month of deliveries for both Boeing and Airbus, but Boeing
runs away with the ordered book in May. We'll see how things go in June. I'm sure we'll be
talking about this after the Paris Air Show next week. ATR received its largest order since 2017
this week.
[0:19:15] JR: What's happening? They're supposed to wait for the air show, not the week
before the air show. That's not how any of this is supposed to work.
[0:19:20] IP: They're getting in before something. I'm not sure. Uni Air, which is an EVA air
subsidiary ordered 19 ATR 72s. That's a replacement and addition to their current fleet. That'll
complement them in Taiwan nicely.
[0:19:40] JR: If they just waited a couple more days, they could have picked up a bunch from
Silver.
© 2025 AvTalk 10
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:19:46] IP: Yeah. Maybe that's still part of the plan.
[0:19:48] JR: Could be.
[0:19:50] IP: Yeah. Spirit Airlines has finalized a compensation package with Pratt & Whitney.
This is a follow-up from last year's compensation package. The one for 2025 will be monthly
stipends that will total between 150 and 195 million dollars by the end of the year, depending on
how many aircraft are actually on the ground. RTX, which is the parent company of Pratt &
Whitney and is responsible for 50% of the GTF engine, they say that it's still targeting 2.9 billion
dollars overall, as far as what compensation it will pay out as part of the geared turbofan issues
and groundings.
[0:20:37] JR: Well, good that they have at least some money coming their way. Spirit can’t
seem to get anything going its way right now, but this will certainly help the bottom line.
[0:20:45] IP: Every little bit helps. Wizz Air is negotiating for more with Pratt & Whitney. They
have had, beginning in early March, there were 42 GTF groundings. Then it was 37. Now it's 34,
hopefully by the end of the summer. Moving in the right direction, the Wizz still says that they're
expecting each engine to be off the wing of the aircraft for 300 days, which is better than it was,
but –
[0:21:19] JR: Not particularly good.
[0:21:21] IP: Not particularly good at all. In interesting comments at an investor forum this week,
Southwest Airlines CEO Bob Jordan said that the airline could begin to monetize its order book,
which is a fun way of saying, we've got big orders. We've got great prices. If we don't need
those particular aircraft, because we haven't been growing as much as we planned or wanted
to, we could sell those orders to another airline for market price, which on the face of it sounds
not a terrible idea. Jason, you had an interesting point that, I mean, orders may come, orders
may go, but once orders are gone –
[0:22:12] JR: They're gone. Yeah. If you locked in a great deal on aircraft, because you're
Southwest and you're ordering a ton of them at once and you got a great deal, if you're selling
© 2025 AvTalk 11
AVT 324 Transcript
off a bunch of them, and suddenly, you need them five years from now, you're probably not
going to get those order slots back at such a favorable rate. I don't know. I'm no CEO by any
means, but this feels like, I should feel like I see a commercial on local Dallas TV late night of
crazy Bob Jordan 737 MAX discount Emporium.
[0:22:46] IP: Come on down.
[0:22:47] JR: Our prices are insane. Come down and get them, because we ordered too many
and we're overstocked. Maybe those ads are running in Dallas. I don't know.
[0:22:56] IP: Come on down to Lovefield.
[0:22:58] JR: Yeah. It's just, I can't figure out in my head if this is a fantastic genius move that
will bring in some, I guess, badly needed revenue, or if this is just a colossally terrible idea. We'll
find out. But anything goes at Southwest these days, as long as it brings in a quick buck for
short-term gain.
[0:23:19] IP: Okay. In that case, I have some ideas.
[0:23:22] JR: Mm-hmm. Go for it.
[0:23:24] IP: In the on again –
[0:23:26] JR: You got no ideas.
[0:23:27] IP: I'm moving on. I'm moving on. In the on-again, off again tariff and other
technology-related and other raw materials-related competition and conflict between the US and
China, the US has placed, or will place restrictions on major components that are integral to
COMAC's development and completion of aircraft, especially the C919 and the C909. This was
first reported by our good friend, Jon Ostrower over at The Air Current.
These restrictions on export licenses cover things like engines for the C919 and C909, things
like components that are produced by Honeywell and RTX. Those types of things are being
© 2025 AvTalk 12
AVT 324 Transcript
halted. In the announced framework to talk about, I don't know if I have the right number of
layers here, it's a framework to discuss the framework that was agreed upon in Geneva that
they thought was an agreed framework. If you’re as confused as I am, good, because I think
we're all in the right place. This is one of the things that is, I think, being used as a negotiating
tactic to bring the US back into being able to receive rare earth minerals from China.
[0:25:05] JR: I mean, it's a pretty good tactic, but China is not in a great position here, where
they're refusing delivery of 737 MAX, because they obviously don't want to pay the astronomical
tariffs on those aircraft. I mean, who could blame them? At the same time, they can't import the
engines that they need for their own homegrown aircraft. Once they run out of the already
acquired stock of those engines, that's it. You can't buy new American aircraft. You can't keep
producing any of your own homegrown aircraft. What do you do? This is a very stupid position
for everyone to find themselves in.
Hey, maybe the understanding to create a memorandum of understanding for a framework of a
2B determined later on deal will come through and they'll be able to do what they were doing
three weeks ago and take delivery.
[0:25:59] IP: On that note, two days ago, N230BE made its way back to China.
[0:26:08] JR: Do we know why yet?
[0:26:10] IP: Well, it flew over to the delivery center. Things might be moving in the right
direction. This was the aircraft, or one of the aircraft that flew from Seattle to China in March,
then flew from China to Seattle in April. It went first storage out at Moses Lake. It came back to
Seattle at the beginning of June and has ended up back at Boeing's completion and delivery
center in China. We'll see if they actually deliver this particular graph or if it just gets flown back
to Seattle one more time.
[0:26:48] JR: Few 737s have made this many trans-Pacific journeys.
[0:26:52] IP: That's true.
© 2025 AvTalk 13
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:26:53] JR: I mean, other than United Historic Island Harbor, which is amazing. Not too many
737s are going back and forth like this.
[0:27:01] IP: No. No. This is an unusual situation for sure. Let's stick to some regional jets for a
minute, because the Embraer E175, it's just going to keep on ticking forever and ever and ever
and ever and ever.
[0:27:15] JR: At least in one specific market.
[0:27:19] IP: Which is the US market.
[0:27:20] JR: Yeah. That's where we're going with this is wholly owned subsidiary, I believe, of
American Piedmont, because American has a couple wholly owned subsidiaries. Will introduce
the E175 to its fleet, apparently starting 2027, according to airlinegeeks.com. I hadn't seen this
before. Which is a little disappointing to me, because Piedmont historically has been the weirdo
airline that operated back in the day, the little Dash 8s, currently the E145, so the other aircraft,
never anything bigger than that. To see it bring into the fold, just your regular, old, boring 76-seat
regional jets with Wi-Fi and power outlets and all that just makes Piedmont much less
interesting to me.
[0:28:09] IP: I'd had never really given it that much thought.
[0:28:16] JR: Nor should you, because it's Piedmont. Nobody thinks about Piedmont.
[0:28:20] IP: Apparently, you do.
[0:28:22] JR: I'm just there. It's good for them, obviously.
[0:28:26] IP: Okay, great. Sticking with the E175s.
[0:28:30] JR: That was a great segment. Let's pat ourselves on the back for that one.
[0:28:33] IP: I'm astonished that you've given so much thought to Piedmont.
© 2025 AvTalk 14
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:28:36] JR: I haven't this very moment.
[0:28:37] IP: There you go. While Piedmont is getting E175s, Envoy Air, also a wholly owned
subsidiary of American Airlines, is getting more as well. They're going to add 33 E175s to their
fleet. That will happen from 2026. These will be brand-new aircraft joining the Envoy fleet and
they will be delivered in 2026 and 2027. More E175s all around for everybody. They're not going
anywhere. Like we've talked about in the past, they're great planes.
[0:29:15] JR: Yeah. I like them. I wish they were the E2s, but I'll take an E1 happily any day.
[0:29:20] IP: And you'll get it for eternity.
[0:29:22] JR: If you insist.
[0:29:24] IP: Okay, speaking of E175s, let's switch over to United and talk about this fun little
diversion that our friend Seth Miller flagged. Jason, what happened?
[0:29:34] JR: Yeah. This is really a kudos story to the operations, I guess, at United, but more
likely at Republic. Is it Republic Airways these days? I forget. They changed their name, right? I
think it's Republic Airways, is it?
[0:29:48] IP: If only we had some box that we could look things up on.
[0:29:52] JR: Yes, if only. Yes, it's Republic Airways these days. Anyway, Seth had flagged that
on June 7th, United 3462, Dulles to Nassau, Bahamas diverted to Jacksonville, Florida for a
mechanical issue. Jacksonville is not a hub of United by any means. That would typically mean
a very long day for both passengers and crew of that flight. However, coincidentally, at the same
time, that flight was diverting to Jacksonville, another Republic United-branded E175 was
ferrying out of Gainesville, Florida, which is basically next door to Jacksonville. Ferrying out after
a Wi-Fi install. It was ferrying up to Columbus, Ohio, and just after probably getting to cruising
altitude, they diverted over to Jacksonville.
© 2025 AvTalk 15
AVT 324 Transcript
After a go around due to an unstable approach, and then they landed and they scooped up
passengers, then they continued their way on down to the Bahamas. I thought that was just
really an interesting service recovery that you would take a not-in-service aircraft very nearby,
divert that, basically, probably swap out the crews, pick everyone up in the working aircraft and
leave the broken aircraft back in Jacksonville. I just thought it was one of those situations that
probably nobody in the operation centers of Republic thought anyone would care, or pick up on,
but Seth Miller did. It's just one of those cool stories, where just things work out well for
everyone.
[0:31:31] IP: It all worked out. Yeah, instead of an overnight delay, or a full day's delay, I mean,
it was just a couple of hours.
[0:31:39] JR: I would love to hear the – announced in Jacksonville, the gate agent going,
“Folks, you won't believe this plane.” A brand-new, empty plane just took off out of Gainesville.
Don't ask questions. Gainesville doesn't make any sense. We have snagged it out of the air and
rerouted to Jacksonville.
[0:31:56] IP: Literally snagged it out of the air.
[0:31:58] JR: Okay, whatever. Fun story.
[0:32:01] IP: All right, great.
[0:32:03] JR: You want to do the opposite of a fun story?
[0:32:05] IP: Yeah, let's do the opposite now.
[0:32:07] JR: Go for it.
[0:32:09] IP: Last week, we talked about a Condor flight that missed the curfew, or missed its
extended curfew in Munich. This is a flight where it took over a day to for the passengers to go
nowhere. This was a near more than 30-hour journey with five flights to end up back exactly
where they started.
© 2025 AvTalk 16
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:32:38] JR: Zurich to Zurich.
[0:32:40] IP: Oh, man.
[0:32:41] JR: What happened?
[0:32:43] IP: There was flight one. The intended destination was Heraklion from Zurich. That
was fine, but they had to divert to Athens because of strong winds. Okay, one diversion. That's
fine. We can deal with that.
[0:33:02] JR: Happens all the time.
[0:33:04] IP: They left Athens again, waited. The weather did not improve, and then they
diverted to Kos, which is not as far away as – So, they're getting closer to where they're trying to
go, because it's not as far away as Athens. But it's still not where they're trying to go. Then, they
had to figure out where they were going to go next, because they didn't want to leave the
aircraft there, and they wanted to put the passenger somewhere overnight. They went to
Thessalonica. Then, they woke up the next day, and the plane flew. It circled. It went back to
Athens. Then they said, “Forget it. We're going back to Zurich.”
[0:33:55] JR: We're going back to Switzerland.
[0:33:57] IP: Those poor people.
[0:33:59] JR: That's tough. What we don't know is what happened in the end. did their
passengers ever get there? Some say they're still on route today.
[0:34:06] IP: They put them on a ferry.
[0:34:09] JR: Ooh. From Switzerland. That might take a while.
© 2025 AvTalk 17
AVT 324 Transcript
[0:34:13] IP:  I don't know how that would actually work. But I mean, once you get to the
Taeyang coast, you can get there pretty quickly.
[0:34:18] JR: Sure.
[0:34:19] IP: Yeah, ouch. Obviously, this is not what anyone ever wants to happen. But it seems
that Condor in this one did the best they could. Some interesting attempts were made, I
suppose, and they got very close. In the interest of safety, you don't try and land when it's not
safe, and they didn't do that. I think that's – Bottom line, it sucks, but safety first.
[0:34:46] JR: Yes. Then it somehow gets worse again, I think. This one might be worse. Do you
think so?
[0:34:53] IP: I get why this happened.
[0:34:54] JR: Somebody goofed.
[0:34:57] IP: Somebody goofed. This was the, something goes wrong. We've got a plan. The
plan has a hole in it, but we didn't figure out the hole, until it was too late. Here's what
happened. An American Airlines flight to Italy needed a different aircraft.
[0:35:16] JR: The first day of operation, I believe, for the seasonal route between Philly and
Naples. I believe, it was the first day of the year for this particular route.
[0:35:27] IP: The aircraft departs, having been switched from a 787-8 to a 787-9. Great aircraft
swap. They departed a little late, not a problem. As they're descending into Naples –
[0:35:46] JR: You know what? I take it back. Not the first day at all. Started back in early May.
Take that excuse away. Never mind.
[0:35:54] IP: All right. As they're descending into Naples, it is understood, determined, found out
that the aircraft cannot land in Naples, and it diverts to Rome. Safe diversion, not a problem
there. Now the question is, well, why couldn't the aircraft land in Naples? The weather was fine.
© 2025 AvTalk 18
AVT 324 Transcript
There was nothing wrong with the aircraft. What's going on here? Well, it turns out that the
787-9 is too big for Naples Airport. The 787-9 is a category 9 aircraft and only aircraft that are
category 8 or below can land at Naples.
[0:36:36] JR: That's perfect, because they were going to fly the 787-8 category 8. For the
category 9, you can't fly a Dash 9 there. It's right there in the numbers.
[0:36:47] IP: It’s right there in the name. Exactly. Thankfully, for both American Airlines and the
passengers, there was a 787-8 available in Rome that they then ferried to Naples, and they
swapped the other flight to the 9, and all was right with the world.
[0:37:08] JR: Yeah. Again, quick airline operation thinking and recovery there to steal an aircraft
that they could use from another flight, and probably nobody even noticed the difference from
those who were supposed to be in the Dash 8 back to, I don't know, Chicago or something.
Probably didn't even know that they were on a different aircraft at all.
[0:37:25] IP: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there was no knowledge amongst the passengers of what
was happening.
[0:37:31] JR: No.
[0:37:32] IP: How about that? Let's see. Where do we want to go next, Jason?
[0:37:36] JR: Let's go to – You just have Finnair meeting. Oh, because Finnair is going to start
flying to Toronto. No, but you don't live in Toronto. What Finnair meeting is this?
[0:37:49] IP: I don't live in Toronto. This week marks the 10th anniversary of Finnair flying to
Chicago. We went to a little celebration yesterday, got to chat with Finnair's GM for North
America, whose job just got larger, now that they're flying to Toronto in short order. I also got to
chat with the Chicago Department of Aviation Commissioner, and congratulate him on his new
sewer. That was a fun conversation. I'll put a link in the show notes, because this is one of those
things where if you're listening to this podcast, you'll probably watch the minute-long video of a
tunnel boring machine and see some stats on what they did.
© 2025 AvTalk 19
AVT 324 Transcript
As part of the satellite concourse development, O'Hare is in filling its catch basin, where the
rainwater would collect. They filled that in. Because they're filling in, they need the water to go
somewhere. They've dug an 8,000-foot-long, 50-foot-deep sewer pipe, basically, or storm drain
to catch the stormwater. That has now been finished. They put together a nice little video with a
tunnel boring machine and how much earth had been moved and where it was going and all
that good, fun stuff.
[0:39:07] JR: Is this using the pipes that I took that picture of when the last time I was in O'Hare
that were United branded, but a different unit?
[0:39:14] IP: No. No. That's separate. This was a much larger, I mean, I think it's 20 some odd
feet in width.
[0:39:22] JR: Oh, yeah. These were not that.
[0:39:25] IP: No. But the one thing I did want to mention is in our conversation yesterday was
noted that demand does seem to be softening in the back of the aircraft come fall. Now whether
that's a question of are people just waiting later to book, or is this a real thing, ex-Europe into
the US, into North America, demand does seem to be to be softening, especially in the economy
cabin. It'll be interesting to see whether that's something that's actually happening, or whether
it's something that is just people are waiting longer and longer to book, because they don't know
what's going to happen. Finnair is keeping a close eye on it. As a result, I think we are, too. Not
just with Finnair, but with all airlines who are flying into the US.
Yesterday, the NTSB announced that they will hold a three-day hearing, beginning July 30th
running through August 1st on the January 29th midair collision between a PSA airlines CRJ-700
and a US Army Sikorsky Blackhawk helicopter. The three-day investigative hearing will be to
gain additional insight and additional information under oath from participants, as well as
understanding more about the circumstances of this particular crash. The investigative hearing
is open to the public and will be live-streamed. We will have a link to that when it becomes
available later next month. That is one that I think you would want to mark on your calendars to
watch, or at least be aware of. Obviously, we'll have some full coverage of that as it happens.
© 2025 AvTalk 20
AVT 324 Transcript
With that note, I think that this brings us to the end of episode 324 of AvTalk. I thank you all so
very much for listening. If you listen to the podcast anywhere besides the FlightRadar24
webpage, which you can do, and you can download it from there, but if you get it on Apple, or
Spotify, or where have you, you might feel inclined to leave a rating or a review, so that the
podcast becomes more visible, so that people know what they're getting into by listening to
AvTalk. You can let us know how you feel, good, bad, let us know what you want to see, and
you can always email us at podcast@fr24.com if you have comments, questions, or
suggestions. This has been episode 324 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik, here as always with –
[0:42:05] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Thanks for listening.
[END]
© 2025 AvTalk 21