Bringing the Lido to Life with Superintendent Jimmy Humston

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a.

00:00:06
Speaker 2: Egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg.

00:00:11
Speaker 3: Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Golf Podcast. I am Andy Johnson, and today we are doing a little bit of a turf week. You know, this is a salute to all the superintendents out there. It's kind of the end of their really tough season. I heard. I remember Aaron McMaster, the superintendent at Orchard Lake, talked about out like a mid August date. I can't remember exactly what the date is, but the date where he got to sigh a deep breath of relief. And I think we're at about that time. I know it's really hot in parts of the country right now, but we're at that time where the dew gets a little bit heavier, the nights get a little bit cooler, and the turf community size a little bit of a deep breath of relief. So today I was really excited. I was joined by Jimmy Humpston, who just completed. I guess it's still going on. But is the man responsible for growing in the lido the new golf course at Sand Valley. It is obviously a recreation of really you know, they like to use the word restoration of the lido. They did a painstake in research. Peter Floory, Tom Doak, a lot of people involved in this project that you know, put back the old Leedo course that was on Long Island in Wisconsin. So I went out there a couple of weeks ago. It is a it's an incredible, incredible project. I just I think the the size of some of the features, the intricacies of the you know, really like the faraway contours. For those that don't know, you know, the lido was a course that was really created out of nothing. It was a pretty pretty poor site. Uh CEB MacDonald wanted to give away, give the job back because he was you know, he felt like he was duped into this really bad site on Liedo Beach that was all muck. But they went through and you know, brought brought sand onto the site and created all these contours. And that's really what the Lido in Wisconsin represents too. It was a very flat site, and we talked a little bit about you know what the site was before and they really created all these contours. It is a super cool project and one that you know, listen, it's not on Long Island and on the Atlantic Ocean, but it is pretty neat that it exists in some form. So we'll have a lot more content on the Lido, but this was This was a great chat with Jimmy about his time at sand Valley. He's been there for a great deal time. He was the superintendent when the Sandbox opened and has been there since then. So we talk about his life living in Nakusa and growing in the Lido. Before we get to Jimmy, let's do a quick ad read from our sponsor of Turf Week, Toro. Americans like our utility vehicles the way we like our US open courses rugged. A winner needs to do it all in tough conditions, and Toro's new Workman UTX line is here to get the job done. Any job, snow and nice, removal, tree maintenance, transporting equipment or materials, whatever you need. This commercial grade, smooth riding four wheel drive monster has your back. The Workman Utx's proprietary governing system unpairs ground speed and RPM so that operator can limit the machine speed without gutting the power. Higher RPMs when more oomph is required, less RPMs, and less fuel consumption when it isn't. That kind of all around performance is what champions are made of. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter or x I guess and reach out to your local Toro distributor to schedule a demo. Before you had taken the job at Sand Valley, what did you know about the Nikusa, Wisconsin area.

00:04:51
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it, so it was all new to me learning about central Wisconsin and what laws here. Career as a I'd worked in four different states across the southeast and thought I'd be there forever and this, this opportunity knocked and uh, the more I researched Wisconsin and and what the Kaisers were doing here in the central Sands, it just really yeah, took a hold of me.

00:05:21
Speaker 3: Did you have I imagine you came on. Did you have any uh, any any second thoughts when you got a little bit of the winter flavor your you know, your first winter, was there any any uh? What have I doing here?

00:05:35
Speaker 1: Uh?

00:05:35
Speaker 2: To be Frank Winners my favorite season here.

00:05:39
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:05:39
Speaker 2: It certainly took some acclamation to get that way, but I was engaged at the time when I took the job, slated to be married essentially when I started, and I promised my wife we would never I'd never move her to the middle of nowhere as part of our marriage agreement. And so I immediately, you know, that was noahfied right off the bat. And luckily my wife also is a is a big fan of The Winner. We enjoy being outside, and that's what I think it takes here to to you know, want to be here is in Wisconsin for you know, several years and beyond is just you got to love the Winner or just embrace it and find your hobbies and things to get you outside.

00:06:23
Speaker 3: What do you guys do in the winter outside?

00:06:26
Speaker 2: Myself, I'm I'm a pretty avid fat biker, so I do a lot of bike riding outside. And then you know, oh yeah, so trail grooming winter fat bike trail grooming is a big kind of undertaking here throughout the central and further north you go in the state. So there are several miles of groom trail in the central area of Wisconsin, and we have groom trail here at Sand Valley, so it's right right in the backyard.

00:06:56
Speaker 3: That's the thing I feel like the with the resort and how it's growing is you know, it's really embracing the all the different things that you can do out there, whether it be obviously they have the outdoor tennis, but you know, one of the best things. And it's so hard because everybody goes there and they try and jam in as much golf as they can.

00:07:14
Speaker 1: But some of the trails out there are beautiful. It is.

00:07:17
Speaker 2: It's you know, when you drive in, it's all flat farmland and pine plantation, and then you come through the entry and the topography of the dunes. You know, we have close to one hundred feet of elevation change throughout the property and walking through the ridge lines and the hardwoods and then the open prairies, and it's just it's unique. And everyone that experiences it, you know, says the same thing. It's can't believe this is in Wisconsin.

00:07:44
Speaker 3: You started at Sand Valley in twenty eighteen, so pretty much, I mean maybe the second year of operation really right after the preview play, that's correct.

00:07:56
Speaker 2: I started shortly after the Sandbox once the Sandbox opened, they essentially determined, you know, we need to hire another superintendent.

00:08:08
Speaker 1: And so I was.

00:08:10
Speaker 2: I was, I was brought on, and I was excited to start my first superintendent job and career here at sam Valley.

00:08:18
Speaker 1: At the Sandbox.

00:08:19
Speaker 3: I that golf course. I love that golf course, I say to people, And I don't know if this is going to still be the case. I think it's too early to make a determination. I always say to people, that's the best course at sand Valley. There's something special. But what was it like going from being an assistant superintendent too? You know, you're get your first superintendent job, but it's at a Part three course.

00:08:45
Speaker 2: Right, and that was something that you know, initial thoughts was I was leery of. I was fortunate came from the Lotion Club in Central Arkansas and that's a big time operation, and it's fortunate enough to I feel like have a lot of the probably experience that a average day superintendent has because you get a lot of responsibility and a lot put on you at the emotion and so I felt like I was certainly ready, but visiting here and you know, seeing the property and learning that the Sandbox is not treated just like an afterthought.

00:09:20
Speaker 1: You know, it is treated the same as a big course.

00:09:23
Speaker 2: You have your own crew, you have your own you know budget, You're not borrowing people from the other courses to make it happen. It is a true operation, you know, just like the other courses. And that really excited me to come from bigger properties and be able to focus everything on just those twenty five acres and not have all the driving time.

00:09:45
Speaker 1: It was it was pretty cool.

00:09:46
Speaker 3: What's the toughest thing about maintaining a par three course? And then what was the biggest advantage or you know your favorite aspect of you know, your team and and maintaining the sandbox.

00:10:03
Speaker 4: I think the the toughest thing about the sandbox is here is that everyone's out there to have a great time.

00:10:13
Speaker 2: And you know, if you go out and stand around the sandbox, you know at four pm or after it is it is happening out there. And so with that, you know, there's there's no the big course. You know, they take caddies. Caddies do a pretty good job of cleaning up the course. Lido caddies are required. They're they're really doing doing a great job of you know, taking care of the course and then the sandbox, everyone's out there just to have a good time, and so just just that extra you know, evening time, everybody's a little more relaxed the course in the mornings. You know, at first it really frustrated me, you know, picking up cans everywhere and trash and you know, so you'd find sand angel and the bunkers, you know, and it's just one of those things that you get used to and you start to appreciate the fact that this people are having fun and just really enjoying the game.

00:11:12
Speaker 3: And that What was the best part about about the you know, managing the sandbox? What was your favorite part or the or the biggest advantage to maintenance on a part three course.

00:11:24
Speaker 2: I think probably my favorite part was probably just the small small crew size. I came from an operation that was about fifty people that you're managing the scheduling daily, and then I came to the sandbox and there is about six of us. So being able to really dial in and focus on what's most important with that small amount of people probably is I'm a man of efficiency, and when I see waste, it just drives me nuts. I'm always trying to figure out, you know, ways to do things faster, with the same quality and without rushing. You know, Russian is the enemy of all but and that's probably what really, you know, I latched onto and just loved about the job.

00:12:12
Speaker 3: Of the most with the with the you know, kind of coming from the Lotion Club, you were assistant superintendent there, you came to Sand Valley, were there are there? You know when you think back, are there release differences in just the maintenance philosophy and what were those in general between those two clubs or the two facilities.

00:12:35
Speaker 2: Sure, I certainly think that the climate plays a huge role in that. You know, at the Elotionan we were growing the same surface of greens there that were growing here at Sand Valley. So if you look at the weather forecast for you know, I still speak to Justin and Kogi down there fairly often, and you know, I'll see the ten day forecast and it's just the hazy hot cactus, you know. So they're on bent grass in that and that is a huge difference. And you know, I always say you can in the South with bent grass, you can mess up once. You can make one mistake, but if you make another mistake, you're you're in big trouble, and here I feel like, you know, with just the cooler, heat stress is the number one factor. You know that you manage for one hundred days in a climate like that, and here there's no such thing as heat stress. You know, it gets into the nineties, but there's you know, the soil is still thirty degrees cooler, twenty five degrees cooler than what it is in little rocks.

00:13:36
Speaker 1: So heat stress is certainly the biggest factor. With that.

00:13:39
Speaker 2: You know, you're having to spray a lot more funge to sides further south, and here we can probably you know, we can go sometimes sixty to ninety days, I would say on our surfaces without a fung just side, and the fescue does not is basically a no input grass. So now having to do those inputs and doing things a little more naturally just because you can because of the huge you know, the the it's a windy environment. Grass loves wind, and so certainly I say, the climate this is a game changer.

00:14:15
Speaker 3: What do you what do you think back to, uh, when you started at Sand Valley, obviously it was a much different place than it is now. I think one of my I one of my first trips as the with the Fried Egg was to Sand Valley, and it was when it was preview played for Sand Valley, the original course, and you know, everything was operated out of a trailer, you know, I just I always think back to that and every time I drive in, I'm like, whoa look at like all everything going on, And this was most recently, I'm like, I again was shocked, and it was something that I always kind of reflect on every time I come in. When you what is the aspect of growth that most impresses you when you think about it from when you started.

00:15:03
Speaker 2: You know, it's the it's the sum of all the small things that that really add up, and probably the scale of the growth is just it it happens over a weekend. You know, if I if I'm able to take a weekend off and just go to a part of the property, or now that I'm across the street, you go across and see you know, you go to an area you haven't been to in two weeks and there's a whole mile of new road paved and or you know, for instance, I've been able to finally see of course this year get built with sedge not being there every day and just going out there and seeing what Sam and his crew have done, and Santos and and Craig's crew just every day out there building a golf course and it's just it's unbelieved. It just takes your breath away. And the logging at Ledo really taught me that that the some of what you can do in a day starts to add up. You know, as they started logging for Liedo, I would come out here several days in a row and I'm like, oh, yeah, they cut some more trees, and then I would be gone a week and come back and say They've cut a lot of trees. And so no one that it doesn't feel like you're getting a lot done on a day. You just stay at it, keep working, and you know that development, the course, it just it just starts to come really together.

00:16:27
Speaker 1: The incredible I.

00:16:29
Speaker 3: Feel that's so true about golf architecture and golf construction projects is like if you're there every day, if you know I had the I spent a lot of time on site at a project last winter, and if when you're there, I felt like when I was there consecutive days, I was like, ah, there's just nothing going on. It's like then you then you're gone for a week and you come back and it's like, whoa, like, look at all this stuff that happened.

00:16:57
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's.

00:17:00
Speaker 3: Crazy little part about like the the when you're the development aspect of of golf is is that it doesn't feel when you're in it like stuff's moving, but then when you take a little bit of a step back, it is. It's it's it's huge, how much it is going on. Uh what do you think back to early days of Sand Valley? Is there an aspect of it that you miss now that you've just gotten a little You know, it's bigger, the team's bigger, there's I'm sure you know, different ways you do things. Is there anything you missed from the early days?

00:17:32
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, I don't really consider myself an early day or of Sand Valley.

00:17:37
Speaker 1: Those guys that you spoke of.

00:17:39
Speaker 2: That were in the trailers, uh you know, I think, uh pretty sure it was Uh it was Bill Krer, Tom Doak said at once said said the guy that has to come to a site first with no infrastructure, no restaurant, no hotel, Like those are the guys that have it tough.

00:17:54
Speaker 1: When I came.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: There was you know, restaurant, there was a metal building, a shop, all the equipments here. You know, the guys rob Andy, you know, some of the original golf pros. They were the ones that you know, they showed up in a you know, Austin the original equipment. He had a you know, he had a palette shop and he had like ten palettes with clydboard on top of him. And that's that was his shop to work on. And so I'm been here five years, but I came here after that infrastructure. So I don't know what the early days were.

00:18:29
Speaker 3: Like I've said, your early days, like you know, it's it's good. Five years, it's grown like crazy. I'm just you know, those like first maybe the first year versus where it is now. Anything that you that you really miss about, you know, it could be even something personally.

00:18:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I would say just the you know, the first two winners I was here. It really did. November felt like we were just you know, you were closing. It was like a hard close. And even though the golf course is hard closed now, we you know, in those first two years, there was no you know, in the winter time, no, there was no construction going on, you know, maybe a lodge getting built or something. And you know, now this this uh, you know, this whole you know community here at Sam Valley is just buzzy, you know, just year round with roads, buildings, and I appreciate that. I love I'm a busy body and love the action. But you know, a part of me does, you know, miss a little bit of the you know, just the that that looking forward to November and the and the calm. Uh certainly you know, we we are we're we're in a three sixty five operation now with the restaurants and hotels. So that's something I really enjoyed, but you know, part of me misses that, that little bit of that hard close.

00:19:53
Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about your most recent adventure, uh occupation there, and it's the Leado. You were in charge of really growing in the Lido. When did you start working on the Lido and what stage was it in at that point?

00:20:12
Speaker 2: So I became the Leedo superintendent and officially on paper, I believe in February of twenty twenty, and at that point I probably had known for three or four months before that that this was.

00:20:28
Speaker 1: You know, what I was doing.

00:20:30
Speaker 2: But you know, I officially had to say yes, I'm doing this, and when I came on, I would say officially, the you know, the site was essentially logged upon, the lagoon had been dug probably halfway and probably the north half of the property about one hundred acres had been you know, rubbed and stumped and organic stripped off, root raged.

00:21:01
Speaker 1: So I would say, you know, it was a pretty early on.

00:21:05
Speaker 2: I'm fortunately I lived essentially right next door, so you know, I was riding my bike through the property throughout all winter, you know, checking it out and watching the logging and then watching the sand get exposed. And this was just kind of blown away with the process and really motivated me to get going.

00:21:24
Speaker 3: Could you could you talk about you know, for people that have been to Sand Valley, it is a it was a tree plantation, you know, of pines where people would just you know, it was farmed pines. So it's just rows of pines that were you know, cut down and then regrow and so there's just pines over sand. How do you turn that into getting it ready to have golf built on it?

00:21:53
Speaker 1: Sure?

00:21:53
Speaker 2: So to start, you know, you we have some loggers we work with, so anything that is quotem are chantable, you know red it's all red pine. So anything that's the mills will will take our sold to the paper mills. You know, the Wisconsin River is the hardest working river in the world. With we've had two of the mills have become idle, but we still have three active mills within twenty minutes of the property.

00:22:21
Speaker 1: So getting getting the timber out to.

00:22:23
Speaker 2: Them is usually a pretty you know, easy task. And then from there the stumps or every stump is dug out with an excavator, one by one and so you're just stumps, right, and so those are put into a pile.

00:22:41
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:22:41
Speaker 2: And then the the overburdened the organic which you know we probably have a it's about twelve inches of dark we call it organic. This from the organic build up throughout throughout the years, that's all stripped off when we get down to good clean sand. And then from there we do the flip process. So then an excavator, just like you think digging the stumps is a lot. Every single square foot is dug you know, with an excavator, probably about three feet deep and completely just flipped over. So any stick root, you know a little bit of dark organic gets left over is put down on the bottom. So we're on this completely sterile dune sand.

00:23:27
Speaker 3: What what happens does anything I've just this is just an excuse me for not knowing this. But what happens with the organic stuff when it gets flipped over over time? Does it just turn into sand eventually? Does it like or does it just will just be sitting there?

00:23:44
Speaker 1: So like sticks or roots.

00:23:47
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's a you know, just a billions of bacteria and fungus living in our soil, even sand, so that eventually just will break down and turn into you know, just a darker you know, soil.

00:24:02
Speaker 1: But so any wood wood that's in the soil will.

00:24:04
Speaker 2: Get become broken down just by the bacterian fungus. And I'm not a soil scientist either, but you know, the deeper that stuff is the better. If it's in the If you get a lot of organic in the top, you know, six to twelve inches, you can cause some issues with turf down the road.

00:24:23
Speaker 1: So it's uh, yeah, it's the processes.

00:24:28
Speaker 2: When you see it happening, you're just like, we're going to throw a golf course on this, and then it just it just works.

00:24:36
Speaker 3: So see then it becomes just I you know, for people that have seen pictures of Lito, it's this just open, expansive place. So it just became this expansive piece of land that was all sand outside of two dugout lagoons.

00:24:53
Speaker 1: Correct, and then from there.

00:24:55
Speaker 3: What what was How did you guys like, what was next for you in that and that growing?

00:25:01
Speaker 2: So after the logging, what's next? Yeah, So the main thing you're focused on when you start up is water. Number one is water.

00:25:13
Speaker 1: Water. Water.

00:25:14
Speaker 2: You you know, obviously with that you work with the local governing bodies to get your permits because you know you're you're going to use water that requires a permitting process through the state, and so waiting on that is a game of patients. Because this is twenty twenty one, everyone's still working from home, and you know, the process is slow. You get the water, and then once you have water, your next objective is you've already start working on us power, trying to get your power in and obviously a pump station. So we were fortunate to work off of a temporary pump station that pumps straight out of the ground into the end irrigation off of well that we grew the first five holes in on and it was it was a neat experience and certainly a temporary solution that really paid off. Get the project springboard, and that's essentially it. I mean, once you get that first hole grass and you have water and power, well we didn't have power, we had generators, and I could do a whole two hours talking about the stories of the generators. But that was that teaches you a lot about, you know, just your being alert and urgency. When you have a seedling that's you know, you can't even hardly see it other than on the microscope and something goes wrong, you know, you have about an hour to get that fixed and or else you're going to be starting over.

00:26:56
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsor and the sponsor of turf on the Frida Egg podcast. Toro. For more than a century with cutting edge turf equipment and irrigation solutions. Toro's had your front nine covered and your back nine two. In fact, Toro's always had your back period. Toro is as committed to your long term success as tour pros are committed to their shot. That's down to top notch customer support from Toro and it's dedicated local distributors, both of whom are passionate about delivering turf equipment and irrigation solutions that solve real world problems. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor today. Again, follow at Toro Golf on acts not Twitter and reach out to your local distributor today. All right, let's get back to Jimmy with the course. What was it like working with Tom? Obviously Peter Florey was very involved in Brian from the computer side. How unique was the experience of of really like trying to put back something that existed one hundred years ago.

00:28:07
Speaker 2: I think for me it was just uh, you know, watching it happen. I you know, I I had no opinion. Uh, I was just you know, album, I'm here to put grass on. What they determined was the you know, as close as possible to the original ego. So just you know, from Tom and Brian Schneider, Peter Ford, Brian Zagger, Craig and Santos. You know, it was such a team of of you know, experts in each individual aspect, you know, and everybody had their their lane of the highway and just watching us get to the to the finish.

00:28:43
Speaker 1: Line, you know.

00:28:43
Speaker 2: Is uh was just just an experience that I'll never forget. Well, it's definitely molded me for you know the rest of my career, just just watching you know so many people, uh, you know work together and there was never a you know, big disputes or you know, anything of that nature.

00:29:02
Speaker 1: It was just here's the facts.

00:29:04
Speaker 2: You know. Peter was the expert of the original edo uh. You know, Tom was consulting with that, and they you know, all just came to you know, a conclusion of just we're going to do this and we're going to do it right. And it was executed as I thought, just perfectly to.

00:29:24
Speaker 3: Plan best betory from the growing process or construction process. Do you have one that's on the top of your head that you kind of think about a lot.

00:29:34
Speaker 2: I would say it was probably the one that we all still talk about. Is it was midnight and we we had a going back to the generator. It was it was midnight and we had an emergency delivery. The generator had stopped working at like six pm that night and we had called in you know, to get a replacement. Like I was like, if we don't have this spout. Tomorrow morning, we're uh some you know, we're we're gonna be We had like four holes grass at this point, we have no water. So we did get a generator that night at midnight and we're out, you know, towing it back out onto the golf course to get it hooked up. And just the I'll just say the the delivery driver that night was a character, and that is something that we still talk about to this day.

00:30:24
Speaker 3: Oh what kind of what kind of character? Give us a little color around this character?

00:30:29
Speaker 2: Well, you know, he was a big fella and apparently they caught him tiny.

00:30:35
Speaker 3: And I was about to say he probably was nicknamed little boy or something.

00:30:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he man, he you you kind of needed to have a translator to understand what he was saying.

00:30:47
Speaker 1: That he was something else.

00:30:49
Speaker 2: And boy was he glad to get out of here, you know. He I guess he'd gotten called on to make this emergency delivery and he just he wasn't too happy.

00:30:58
Speaker 3: That's that's good. That's good. So growing in you know, for people that have seen Lido's early photos, I mean it's just as I said, it's just sand everywhere and it gets It's not like the windiest place in the world. But it gets windy there and the sand blows around. How does that make it really hard to get grass down?

00:31:21
Speaker 1: Yes, it does.

00:31:24
Speaker 2: After the first year in twenty twenty one, we had thirteen holes done, and after the winner we put up about two miles of erosion fence, which is four foot tall wooden slat fence like you would see on a beach. And we still probably had we grasped about fifty acres and we had about i'd say twenty acres that were under at least an inch of sand, and we all thought that we were going to have to redo those twenty acres and just kind of start, hey, well, first we need to take this first month and not continue the course. We need to go back and read grass. And then it was just the most amazing thing. Fescue grass is just incredible. It just started popping, the shoots that started popping through the sand, and all that grass that was buried we regrassed, not a bit of it. Every bit of it threw through. Some places there was two inches buried, and you know, some of it we scrapped, scratched off, and there wasn't one piece of the of the property that you know, we wanted to get back that we didn't get back from and that's some of the best grass out there now. Just you know, old Tom Morris discovered to you know, sand top dressing, and let me tell you, you can put two inches of sand on fescue and it just the happiest, happiest grass out there.

00:32:43
Speaker 3: So for people that haven't been or don't know much about Leedo, it's a us auld say, it's a very big course. It's uh, it's got a lot of sharp features, some big green, some big just bold contouring was in our moment during this construction where there's a specific feature or hole where you looked at and we're like, how am I going to maintain that?

00:33:08
Speaker 2: I would say it started on the first green that Brian Schneider said it's ready, and you know which screen was that fourteen was our first green. So fourteen and thirteen were the first greens we seated, and fourteen was that's you know, pretty abrupt bumper. Yes, that's the thumb print short and that was that was just the preview of what was to come. So I would say, uh, seeing you know four bunker at the green off the back of sixteen green. Uh some of those you know, those are some slopes like I've never seen before on a golf course. Uh, just pure grass and you know, I didn't think we'd be able to grow grass on them. But the uh, you know, the hydromulching method we used it did it. We changed the mix a little bit to make it a little stickier, and it all grew in. You know. That was probably my number one I'll say concern, you know, watching the course get built is just how are we ever going to keep grass on these bunker slopes because if you lose the grass, eventually you lose the slope and then you lose the architecture, and you know, thinking that we're going to have to do a lot of redos, but it just it worked.

00:34:31
Speaker 3: What's the most challenging thing about day to day maintenance out.

00:34:34
Speaker 1: There in this day and age.

00:34:38
Speaker 2: I would say that's a that's a pretty good question, because I would I would say there's a lot of things that are equal, but you know, on a on a day to day it's probably just ensuring that you know, we're doing everything to our ability to keep you know, like the pace of play where we want it to be. Because Lido is it is a beast, especially when the wind's blowing. So just just the simple things from course set up to monitoring you know, how the ball's rolling on the greens. That that can you know, we've got a really good pulse on it, but it can you know, weather conditions and you know, agronomic practices can can change that quickly without you know, really dialing it in. So I would say that's just maintaining the level of the golf course just day to day for playability and pace of play.

00:35:35
Speaker 3: What have you seen is the biggest you know, outside of weather, what's the biggest thing that slows down pace of play? Since I you know why it's important for you just you know, I think like more so you you're in a unique situation where you have a private club, You've got member tea times in the morning. I assume those fly around, you know, and then you have public resort play or resort play it's not public resort play in two blocks and in between there you have a member block too, So you have this dynamic of members and resort guests, and I imagine that it's it's a big thing just to get everybody around quickly so that neither party is really unhappy, correct.

00:36:22
Speaker 2: You know from my perspective, you know, it's just the sum of a lot of small things. But I think one of the main contributing factors is, you know, just stubbornness. It only takes it only takes one too, you know, slow them all down.

00:36:38
Speaker 1: And you know some.

00:36:42
Speaker 2: Golfers just will we'll just say, you know this is you know, they don't say it to me. I don't know, but you know, I think it's just an attitude of I'm here and I'm going to play how I want to play, and they don't think they're slow, but they're slow, and uh that's it just takes one and and you know it's going to affect everybody.

00:37:02
Speaker 3: We run these events all all over the country and you know sometimes I have to be the slow play sheriff at them, and it's not never fun. But I can I can tell you, like when you go talk to somebody who's slowing up a golf course, you never I don't think I've ever encountered somebody that's been like, yeah, yeah, I know, I'm sorry, we're playing a little slow. We'll pick it up. Like everybody always is like, well, you know, X y Z happened or X y Z happened, and it's like, listen, I wouldn't be talking to you if if you were two plus holes behind, right, if you're a whole behind and I can see the group ahead of you like on the next screen, I'm not talking to you. You know. It's like more than one thing happened to cause this, you know, right, And then it's always amazing because then they just like speed up like this. It's it's like making just a conscious effort to not waste time. It makes the biggest deal from a maintenance standpoint, What do you think the biggest contributor to slow play UH is?

00:38:05
Speaker 2: From a maintenance standpoint, I think it's certainly probably coarse distance and you know not you know, on a wind day, we we certainly try to you know, when we're playing the holes are playing into the wind. If the wind's gonna be ten plus throughout the day, we always try to you know, accommodate that with moving the ts certainly to the fronts of those you know, pushing the upper threshold the shorter threshold or that t yardage for the you know, to make it play shorter.

00:38:28
Speaker 1: But you know, going back.

00:38:29
Speaker 2: To that it's golfers choosing the wrong tea that you know, you see guys walk out under the blue tea and they they top it and don't even get it off the tee, and you know it's like as you should be up like three t boxes. So that's that's also a big contributors is people playing the wrong tees, and we can we can amplify that with you know, setting setting the tea's in the wrong areas. Uh, you know, when when the wind or conditions you know are going to be difficult.

00:39:00
Speaker 3: What's your favorite, let's just say, architectural feature, So it could be a green, it could be a bunker or a you could throw a couple out if it's hard to pick one out there. What are what are some of your favorite built features out at Lido since all of them are built.

00:39:18
Speaker 2: You know, certainly I think the the I'm I've always been a sucker for par threes, So sixteen the radan that is just that hole is as hard as hell. And I'm I'm an old school I still carry a three iron and a one iron, and I love getting that three or one iron out of the bag and just having that wind coming straight out of the northwest and just playing a big cut or trying to hit you know, a low duck hook in there that just dives into the approach and sticks on. And then also eight the Barrits because I'm a I'm also a sucker for wanting to you know, put the ball in the air. I just I'm allergic to the ground game. But I do love eight the Brits to try to like scoot one off that slope and let it ramp up onto the front of the green.

00:40:10
Speaker 1: I love trying to play that shot.

00:40:12
Speaker 3: So that's what I love, hitting like on any Burrits holes, hitting like a punch driver and just watching the ball roll. It's just like the most fun thing. And I mean that's how they used to play a lot more like that. Have you gone out there and tried to play like Hickory golf or retro golf out there since since it's open, No.

00:40:34
Speaker 1: I haven't.

00:40:35
Speaker 2: I do carry a tailor made burner or an original tailor made you know, spoon driver.

00:40:40
Speaker 3: That's probably the little metal one.

00:40:43
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm so, I'm thinking that's probably as vintage as I get. But Clark Willard, the you know pro here, you know, Hickory Revival he's, uh, they have sets in there, but you know, I've always told him we got to get out one day, but I've still yet to go go hit the hickorys around. Yeah.

00:40:58
Speaker 3: That having played it once, I like I got off it and it's like you kind of like it's it's almost like an overwhelming golf course in the sense of like there's so much going on. I felt like one play you're just you're just trying to take in everything. And in the magic of the golf course is how when you guys set it a day to day setup. I imagine you move a pin, you can move it, move a lot of them very far away, but there's so much going on that it completely changes the dynamics of how you play the golf course.

00:41:27
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:41:29
Speaker 2: Certainly the pen locations can you know, ruin a day or make a day. And we always are very conservative with our locations and those are always evaluated to make sure that we're you know, being fair while providing it just to you know, a couple of challenges out there, but not nothing.

00:41:48
Speaker 1: Nothing too tough.

00:41:49
Speaker 3: The weekends are just member play. Do you guys do anything different than than the week days where you have the mix play as far.

00:41:58
Speaker 2: As from an agronomy standpoint, Yeah, yeah, No, I think we keep the course consistent throughout the week, from resort play to you know, member play. I think it's you know, it's it plays the same as it does, you know on a Monday as it does is Saturday.

00:42:18
Speaker 3: One one just question I had, you know, you see these you see the pictures of of Lido and there's a lot a lot of exposed stands still you know it kind of I think aerial pictures. You know, it doesn't feel this way when you're on the ground, but some things the aerial pictures do. Is it It shows how kind of new what what's the plan long term for those big sandy areas. Is there going to be a native plant in there or is it just going to come in? And like what does that timetable look like in terms of of growing in a you know, really like allowing an area to almost I imagine naturalized.

00:42:57
Speaker 2: Right. So a lot of the areas that you know are still sandy are non irrigated, and the irrigation that is out there can be moved and kind of shifted around to help establish But the main goal for you know, all the sandy areas is to you know, at eye level, you know, at like you're saying, when you get in the air, everything just looks like it's stilled.

00:43:19
Speaker 1: This your stand.

00:43:20
Speaker 2: But on the ground, you know, we probably have fifty to sixty percent ground coverage, and you know the goal is to when you're on the te boxes and walk in the course, we don't see any huge sands cabs. So it's this slow process and we've come a long way. Like I said, when I look back at the pictures from the spring, I feel like we haven't made progress. But then I'm like, wow, Wow, there is a lot of rescue out there, so fescue cover crop throughout the property, the waste native areas, and then with that we're gonna intercede some blue stems, a little blue stem and some native wildflowers that we work with in a coologists to put together mixes. So some patchy wildflowers in places.

00:44:02
Speaker 3: That's uh, that's cool. I think it'll I kind of was thinking when when when I was out there, I was like, you know, in like three years, this place is going to look completely different. And I always say this, like you know, everybody runs out to the new course and it's like everybody does their stuff on new courses, and it's it's like that's in the best time to see I feel like the best time, and you tell me if I'm wrong on this. It's like the best time to see a golf course is three years into it because that's when it really has like matured in right, I think so.

00:44:37
Speaker 2: Certainly, I don't think much will much from the way the Lido looks this year. From the you know, the the edges in, I don't think there's a whole lot that's going to look different, but from the edges.

00:44:48
Speaker 1: Out that's really going to change and evolved.

00:44:52
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, I'm hoping about twenty twenty five that you know, like we talked about that the eye level of you know, it is just nothing but Wispy's wild flowers and sedges and blue stems.

00:45:06
Speaker 3: So you you mentioned earlier you you've watched kind of Sedge from a distance, and that's obviously the next new course that at Sand Valley that will open next year. What gets you the most excited about Sedge?

00:45:22
Speaker 2: I you know, there's always this talk and I tell people this and they're like, oh, yeah, ya, you're one of those guys. But I like to say, I'm gonna wait till it's finished to go see. You know, I'm just gonna wait and see it when it's all finished.

00:45:37
Speaker 1: You know.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: Usually people say that that can't get access to it. I'm just gonna wait till you do not see it all and I have. I Unfortunately, I broke my rule a little bit. I played a couple of weeks back. I went and played the thirteen holes that do have grass. Sam the superintendent over there, was nice enough to let me sneak over there, but there are still five holes that I have not walked on, have not looked at. And I told him on you know, about November first, whatever day that is that we you know, we're not blowing out yet, but have a decent weather day, we're gonna have a lead over Sedge four on four match and uh for the for the King of Growins.

00:46:17
Speaker 3: It's looking good. I thought it was really neat, and just I thought what I'm seeing, you know. I went up there and played Sedge in the morning, the thirteen holes, and then it came over to years is like, what's so cool? It is just how dramatically different Sedge feels and you know, it feels related but dramatically different from the other resort courses, just I think in the in the ground and then some in the design.

00:46:45
Speaker 2: Right, it's certainly unique, and it's it's unlike anything else here, you know. I think that's what's so cool is the four big courses here all different feels, different playabilities. You're gonna get all all shot values across the board, you know, on every course. But then just seeing said that, you know there's really no open sand, just those sedge prairies that are just all all natural unique. And those those par threes over there, the ones that I saw, those are gonna those are good.

00:47:20
Speaker 3: Part threes and a lot of short part four us. I I the thing I really loved about about there was there the idea of, like, you have tons of space, but there are consequences to the space. Right if you wanna, if you wanna, if you want to push it, you need to get into the right space, which is usually kind of guarded. But if you're if you're laying back, you could you've got all the all the space in the world. Right, Hey, have they converted you? Are they are they trying to make you a Packers fan? Are they trying to brainwash you up there, you know.

00:47:52
Speaker 2: I always like to say that. Uh see, I'm I'm a Tennessee vall. My wife's a Razorback, so I call Razorbacks my second favorite team. I'm a Titans fan at heart, but I'll pull for the local economy when the Packers are winning. Things are good here, you know, so I'll pull for the economy. I want Wisconsin to go in the right direction. So yes, I'm a second favorite team Packers fan.

00:48:14
Speaker 1: That's tough.

00:48:15
Speaker 3: That's tough. I I every time I drive to Sand Valley, there's there's a there's a house on that road in that's got a bear sign out out front of it. Every time I think, I always forget, but like and I guess there isn't a place like out of the way right there. I want to just drop like a case of beer to the guy. I like to want to drop a case of beer off on his front door and just like ring the doorbell and leave type of thing, because he's just this like hold out Bears fan.

00:48:42
Speaker 2: In Packer country, it's a you know, you believe believe it or not, We're we're much more divided here than you would think. Especially in this community here because we're a second home community from and many of those are Chicagos. So you know, if you go to a Bear's Packers game in a bar around here, you're probably looking at a seventy thirty or sixty forty split and you know, majority band Packers.

00:49:08
Speaker 1: But there's those Bears fans.

00:49:10
Speaker 2: They really, they really, they hang in there.

00:49:13
Speaker 3: We did we well. Were a lot of Bears fans are Cubs fans. So that's it's just ingrained in our in our spirits from just that's what we have to do. It's a Chicago sports fan. You just kind of you hang in.

00:49:26
Speaker 1: That's what we're going to.

00:49:29
Speaker 3: There's a lot of a lot of disappointments with very few great memories.

00:49:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, so hey, Jimmy, we see the.

00:49:38
Speaker 3: Best with the rest of the season. It was it was amazing to get out there and see and the playing conditions were fantastic. Thank you, and really look forward to seeing the course evolve and I think I think I'll see you at the end of the end of the year, So look forward to to spend more time with you, and congrats on on all the success of Gang Alito opened and grasped well.

00:50:03
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, Andy, and thank you for having me on and it's been enjoyable, so be sure and reach out when you're back.

00:50:17
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast. Today's episode was edited by Matt Rusius.

00:50:24
Speaker 1: Thank you, Matt.

00:50:26
Speaker 3: As a quick reminder, we have Club TFY going. It's our membership and you know, we put a ton of content, a ton of time in there. One of the things that's new that's neat is that Garrett has Garrett's really spearheaded this, but every Monday we have a new article up on Club TFI called Design Notebook. It dives into all the latest projects and rumors and different things going on in golf architecture. So Garrett, myself, others from the fridayg are contributing there, kind of talking about some of the courses we've seen recently, but then also the big projects and you know, kind of just talking about the trend. So most recently in the latest Design Notebook, Garrett dove into the restoration trend of Pete Die courses and really what's going to happen with all these golf courses that were built from the seventies through the nineties. They have all come to this time where they're kind of reaching a point of maybe they need to be restored or not. So if you're interested in Design Notebook or Club TFF, we've got a bunch of other things such as early event access, member events. Go to membership dot thefridaegg dot com. You can find out all the information there. It's one hundred and twenty dollars for the year and that's really the best way to support what we do here at Frida Egg Golf. So thank you for listening, and we'll be back next week with a couple of new episodes of the podcast.