258 | Mastering Neutrality: Letting Go of Control and Embracing True Neutrality in the Playroom

0
00:00:00,439 --> 00:00:04,320
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

1
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,189
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

2
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:08,640
Hi,

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:09,710
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

4
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:10,439
The Kid Counselor.

5
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,560
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

6
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,869
a master class in child-centered play therapy

7
00:00:15,159 --> 00:00:17,280
and practical support and application for your

8
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,930
work with children and their families.

9
00:00:19,479 --> 00:00:20,170
In today's episode,

10
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,870
we are continuing in the neutrality series.

11
00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:24,569
And

12
00:00:24,860 --> 00:00:26,739
this has been quite a topic,

13
00:00:26,750 --> 00:00:27,209
y'all.

14
00:00:27,459 --> 00:00:28,319
You have

15
00:00:28,579 --> 00:00:30,959
really been quite verbal about this

16
00:00:31,420 --> 00:00:34,470
on the Collective and the coaching calls and emailing me,

17
00:00:34,580 --> 00:00:38,490
so I'm glad that this is so helpful and I'm glad we're talking about this.

18
00:00:39,220 --> 00:00:39,740
So,

19
00:00:40,099 --> 00:00:42,459
we've spent a couple of weeks talking about

20
00:00:42,659 --> 00:00:43,750
just practically speaking,

21
00:00:43,819 --> 00:00:44,500
big picture,

22
00:00:44,580 --> 00:00:45,930
what neutrality looks like.

23
00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:49,830
But I want to dive in today

24
00:00:50,319 --> 00:00:53,790
into some insight that I actually had when Eric and I were walking last week.

25
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,720
I don't even remember how it came up,

26
00:00:55,799 --> 00:00:56,270
but

27
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,619
he said something and it just,

28
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,209
you have those light bulb moments,

29
00:01:00,279 --> 00:01:00,439
right?

30
00:01:00,599 --> 00:01:02,759
So I basically had my little aha moment on the

31
00:01:02,759 --> 00:01:05,069
walk where whatever he said made me think about.

32
00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:09,040
The application of what he was talking about to CCPT,

33
00:01:09,180 --> 00:01:11,339
which that's how my brain works almost all the time.

34
00:01:11,660 --> 00:01:13,410
I connect everything to child-centered play therapy,

35
00:01:13,419 --> 00:01:13,779
but

36
00:01:14,180 --> 00:01:14,889
whatever he said,

37
00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:15,300
I was like,

38
00:01:15,410 --> 00:01:16,089
oh my gosh,

39
00:01:16,220 --> 00:01:16,889
that's it.

40
00:01:17,139 --> 00:01:19,110
That is at the heart of

41
00:01:19,410 --> 00:01:20,769
why neutrality is so hard.

42
00:01:21,569 --> 00:01:22,139
So,

43
00:01:22,150 --> 00:01:23,589
I'm not getting this from anywhere.

44
00:01:23,669 --> 00:01:25,739
This is straight from my brain

45
00:01:25,949 --> 00:01:26,660
to your ears.

46
00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:27,139
So

47
00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:29,099
I'm kind of positing out loud,

48
00:01:29,269 --> 00:01:29,669
but

49
00:01:29,989 --> 00:01:31,029
you give me some feedback.

50
00:01:31,110 --> 00:01:32,430
Tell me if this resonates with you,

51
00:01:32,550 --> 00:01:33,839
tell me if this makes sense.

52
00:01:35,879 --> 00:01:36,730
I

53
00:01:37,209 --> 00:01:39,330
was processing as he was talking,

54
00:01:39,860 --> 00:01:41,769
and the thing that kept popping in my head

55
00:01:42,059 --> 00:01:42,690
was

56
00:01:43,260 --> 00:01:45,209
to be a child-centered play therapist.

57
00:01:46,370 --> 00:01:48,730
You basically have to be willing and able.

58
00:01:49,550 --> 00:01:50,819
to die to yourself.

59
00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:53,809
And what I mean by that is.

60
00:01:54,849 --> 00:01:56,139
We have to be

61
00:01:56,639 --> 00:01:58,300
completely vulnerable.

62
00:01:59,510 --> 00:02:02,120
We have to give over all control.

63
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,269
We have to be at the mercy

64
00:02:05,559 --> 00:02:06,190
of

65
00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:07,639
the child in the playroom.

66
00:02:08,729 --> 00:02:09,630
Their emotions,

67
00:02:09,750 --> 00:02:10,389
their actions,

68
00:02:10,508 --> 00:02:11,210
their behaviors,

69
00:02:11,350 --> 00:02:12,320
their words,

70
00:02:12,669 --> 00:02:13,589
their themes,

71
00:02:13,750 --> 00:02:14,509
their play,

72
00:02:14,589 --> 00:02:15,470
their issues.

73
00:02:16,660 --> 00:02:18,350
We don't govern any of it.

74
00:02:18,869 --> 00:02:20,309
We don't control any of it.

75
00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:21,320
We

76
00:02:21,869 --> 00:02:23,009
have to just

77
00:02:23,309 --> 00:02:24,619
set ourselves aside.

78
00:02:25,539 --> 00:02:26,529
And

79
00:02:26,889 --> 00:02:29,139
go with whatever comes our way,

80
00:02:29,330 --> 00:02:30,759
and what comes our way

81
00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:32,399
is not predictable,

82
00:02:33,050 --> 00:02:34,559
it's not controllable,

83
00:02:34,649 --> 00:02:35,839
it's not governable.

84
00:02:37,770 --> 00:02:40,610
And I guess the question always comes back to,

85
00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:43,169
are we willing to accept

86
00:02:43,869 --> 00:02:44,410
anything

87
00:02:44,660 --> 00:02:45,889
that happens in play?

88
00:02:47,839 --> 00:02:49,610
And let's pause there for a second,

89
00:02:49,699 --> 00:02:50,830
because in,

90
00:02:51,259 --> 00:02:52,690
in light of neutrality,

91
00:02:53,649 --> 00:02:55,240
Accepting something.

92
00:02:56,149 --> 00:02:57,779
is very different.

93
00:02:59,039 --> 00:03:01,710
Then being permissive when limits are necessary.

94
00:03:03,759 --> 00:03:05,910
Please make sure you understand the difference there.

95
00:03:07,630 --> 00:03:09,160
Feelings are always valid.

96
00:03:10,339 --> 00:03:12,020
Sometimes behavior is inappropriate.

97
00:03:12,910 --> 00:03:14,360
We will set limits

98
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,279
when something is inappropriate.

99
00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:19,119
But even if a limit is required,

100
00:03:19,729 --> 00:03:20,919
we still accept

101
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,479
the behavior and the child for what it is.

102
00:03:24,289 --> 00:03:27,119
We can't allow certain things to happen for safety

103
00:03:27,330 --> 00:03:28,369
and for protection.

104
00:03:29,429 --> 00:03:32,429
But we have to be able to accept what it is.

105
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,360
We have to be able to accept the child's need,

106
00:03:35,919 --> 00:03:36,919
the child's want.

107
00:03:37,589 --> 00:03:38,800
The means to an end?

108
00:03:39,559 --> 00:03:40,960
The root issue,

109
00:03:41,419 --> 00:03:43,289
the manifestation of work.

110
00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:47,130
These are things that we are forced to accept.

111
00:03:48,429 --> 00:03:51,250
In order to be fully adherent to CCPT.

112
00:03:52,660 --> 00:03:54,809
I accept that you need to be

113
00:03:55,139 --> 00:03:55,850
aggressive.

114
00:03:57,169 --> 00:03:59,179
I accept that you need to make a mess.

115
00:04:00,330 --> 00:04:02,179
I accept that you need to cuss at me.

116
00:04:03,589 --> 00:04:06,029
I accept that you just made me bleed.

117
00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:10,850
I accept that you refuse to come into the playroom with me right now.

118
00:04:12,139 --> 00:04:15,050
I accept that you won't look or speak to me this session.

119
00:04:16,209 --> 00:04:17,369
You see where I'm going with this?

120
00:04:19,668 --> 00:04:21,098
We die to ourselves

121
00:04:21,668 --> 00:04:23,498
because self says,

122
00:04:23,998 --> 00:04:24,669
don't do that,

123
00:04:24,949 --> 00:04:25,419
stop,

124
00:04:25,628 --> 00:04:26,139
talk,

125
00:04:26,348 --> 00:04:26,819
play,

126
00:04:27,028 --> 00:04:27,658
come in.

127
00:04:27,908 --> 00:04:29,269
I don't want to do a lobby session.

128
00:04:30,220 --> 00:04:32,510
I'm not OK with the fact that you just made me bleed.

129
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,190
That's where our self is.

130
00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:39,779
And this is why CCPT is so hard.

131
00:04:41,589 --> 00:04:42,850
And this is why

132
00:04:43,059 --> 00:04:43,820
the notion.

133
00:04:44,829 --> 00:04:46,399
From other theoretical

134
00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:48,779
orientation play therapists

135
00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:49,880
that

136
00:04:50,619 --> 00:04:52,529
You're just gonna sit and let a kid play?

137
00:04:53,630 --> 00:04:55,399
You're just gonna watch a child play?

138
00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:58,230
You're not gonna do anything with the child?

139
00:04:58,989 --> 00:05:00,880
You're never going to ask a question?

140
00:05:02,140 --> 00:05:03,859
What about when they need a directive?

141
00:05:04,750 --> 00:05:07,040
What kind of activities are you going to provide?

142
00:05:07,079 --> 00:05:08,630
You're not going to provide activities?

143
00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:14,109
The implied judgment in all of that.

144
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,309
All stems back to one thing.

145
00:05:19,339 --> 00:05:20,130
They can't

146
00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:21,350
die to self.

147
00:05:23,179 --> 00:05:24,679
And really who wants to.

148
00:05:27,179 --> 00:05:27,980
I mean,

149
00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:29,869
most of you know I'm a Christian,

150
00:05:30,269 --> 00:05:31,660
that's a tenet of

151
00:05:31,859 --> 00:05:32,779
Biblical

152
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:34,019
goal,

153
00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:35,859
die to self.

154
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:37,709
It's hard

155
00:05:39,049 --> 00:05:40,489
No one wants to.

156
00:05:41,769 --> 00:05:45,130
not care about what's going on and what's in your best

157
00:05:45,130 --> 00:05:47,920
interest and how you feel and what you want to happen.

158
00:05:48,489 --> 00:05:49,170
That's hard.

159
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,309
But it's what CCPT requires of us.

160
00:05:53,869 --> 00:05:55,859
Because for us to be neutral.

161
00:05:56,739 --> 00:05:58,559
We have to put ourselves aside.

162
00:06:00,100 --> 00:06:03,880
And we have to just accept things the way that they unfold.

163
00:06:05,779 --> 00:06:06,609
Please hear me.

164
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,510
That does not mean we don't set limits.

165
00:06:09,779 --> 00:06:11,440
It's not carte blanche,

166
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:12,510
do whatever you want,

167
00:06:12,589 --> 00:06:14,109
and I'm completely permissive,

168
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,510
and I'm just going to indulge every whim that you happen to have.

169
00:06:18,529 --> 00:06:19,220
I have to be safe,

170
00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:19,899
you have to be safe,

171
00:06:19,970 --> 00:06:22,130
the toys cannot be broken or damaged on purpose.

172
00:06:24,579 --> 00:06:26,230
If we're in violation of any of that,

173
00:06:26,329 --> 00:06:27,369
a limit is required.

174
00:06:28,709 --> 00:06:29,609
But you know what?

175
00:06:29,850 --> 00:06:32,079
I set limits when necessary.

176
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,059
And I still accept whatever that circumstance is for what it is,

177
00:06:36,190 --> 00:06:37,739
and I still accept the child

178
00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:40,299
for whoever he or she is in that moment too.

179
00:06:41,970 --> 00:06:42,850
You're not wrong

180
00:06:43,019 --> 00:06:44,500
for making me bleed.

181
00:06:46,299 --> 00:06:47,959
You're not wrong for making a mess.

182
00:06:48,890 --> 00:06:50,450
You're not wrong for being angry.

183
00:06:51,829 --> 00:06:54,519
You're not wrong for feeling or doing or saying anything.

184
00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:57,410
That is neutrality.

185
00:06:58,220 --> 00:07:00,179
Do you see that there's no agenda?

186
00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:02,730
There's no self.

187
00:07:03,529 --> 00:07:05,450
Self is going to say the opposite.

188
00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:07,269
Self is going to say.

189
00:07:08,269 --> 00:07:08,519
Kid,

190
00:07:08,869 --> 00:07:09,750
you need to knock it off,

191
00:07:09,829 --> 00:07:10,869
you're driving me nuts.

192
00:07:12,029 --> 00:07:13,299
Self is going to say,

193
00:07:13,309 --> 00:07:16,910
if you dump that entire bucket of Legos on the floor and

194
00:07:16,910 --> 00:07:19,940
it takes me 27 minutes to clean all of that up,

195
00:07:20,109 --> 00:07:21,299
except Jonathan,

196
00:07:21,829 --> 00:07:22,269
Jonathan,

197
00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:22,899
my friend,

198
00:07:23,109 --> 00:07:24,140
he loves to clean.

199
00:07:24,510 --> 00:07:24,739
He,

200
00:07:24,910 --> 00:07:27,510
he's just in his happy place when he cleans a messy room.

201
00:07:28,225 --> 00:07:28,765
Most of us,

202
00:07:28,834 --> 00:07:29,434
however,

203
00:07:29,725 --> 00:07:30,714
are internally going,

204
00:07:30,885 --> 00:07:35,334
don't you dare dump that entire bucket of Legos out and throw them all over the room,

205
00:07:35,404 --> 00:07:38,165
and I have to walk around and place all those individual

206
00:07:38,165 --> 00:07:41,434
little one nub Lego bricks back in the container.

207
00:07:41,644 --> 00:07:42,325
Oh my gosh,

208
00:07:42,404 --> 00:07:43,355
perish the thought.

209
00:07:43,845 --> 00:07:44,285
OK.

210
00:07:46,109 --> 00:07:47,149
Our selves.

211
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,130
are going to

212
00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:50,859
be infuriated.

213
00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:53,500
Our selves are going to be anxious.

214
00:07:54,029 --> 00:07:55,559
Our selves are going to be saying,

215
00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:55,739
no,

216
00:07:55,829 --> 00:07:55,910
no,

217
00:07:56,029 --> 00:07:56,109
no,

218
00:07:56,269 --> 00:07:56,429
stop,

219
00:07:56,470 --> 00:07:56,690
stop,

220
00:07:56,709 --> 00:07:56,910
stop,

221
00:07:56,950 --> 00:07:57,309
do this,

222
00:07:57,350 --> 00:07:57,940
don't do that.

223
00:07:58,070 --> 00:07:58,260
Talk,

224
00:07:58,309 --> 00:07:58,899
don't talk.

225
00:08:00,609 --> 00:08:01,700
But we have to die

226
00:08:01,869 --> 00:08:02,609
to self

227
00:08:02,829 --> 00:08:03,510
to do this.

228
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,339
And here's where it all comes down to,

229
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:08,130
in my opinion,

230
00:08:08,250 --> 00:08:08,769
as I said,

231
00:08:08,890 --> 00:08:10,839
this is just straight out of my brain so

232
00:08:11,489 --> 00:08:13,089
I could just be speaking out of thin air,

233
00:08:13,130 --> 00:08:13,450
but.

234
00:08:14,890 --> 00:08:15,880
When we don't

235
00:08:16,049 --> 00:08:17,359
give directives.

236
00:08:19,220 --> 00:08:21,470
It's because we're willing to sacrifice.

237
00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:24,549
For the child's sake.

238
00:08:27,070 --> 00:08:28,130
An agenda,

239
00:08:28,679 --> 00:08:29,670
a worksheet,

240
00:08:30,119 --> 00:08:30,989
an activity.

241
00:08:31,869 --> 00:08:32,849
A directive

242
00:08:33,619 --> 00:08:35,450
A conversational topic,

243
00:08:35,979 --> 00:08:37,090
a teaching point.

244
00:08:38,530 --> 00:08:39,609
And acrostic,

245
00:08:40,058 --> 00:08:41,169
a feeling's wheel.

246
00:08:41,419 --> 00:08:42,260
I can keep going.

247
00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:44,309
I'm cringing,

248
00:08:44,390 --> 00:08:45,539
but I can keep going.

249
00:08:47,010 --> 00:08:47,719
When

250
00:08:48,059 --> 00:08:48,969
you do that.

251
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,039
It's because you're not willing to sacrifice yourself.

252
00:08:54,299 --> 00:08:56,549
And just let the child do what the child needs to do.

253
00:08:58,590 --> 00:08:59,929
And it's not just

254
00:09:00,219 --> 00:09:02,450
the freedom for the child to do what they need to do,

255
00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:05,619
because a lot of therapists provide that and the whole time.

256
00:09:06,599 --> 00:09:08,299
They're not dying to themselves,

257
00:09:08,570 --> 00:09:09,640
and they're upset about it.

258
00:09:11,330 --> 00:09:12,349
The whole time

259
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,400
they're internally warring with themselves because what they're

260
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,239
saying and what they're feeling are incongruent.

261
00:09:18,409 --> 00:09:21,210
We're talking about congruence this month in the Collective.

262
00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:24,099
Congruence matters.

263
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,309
Everything matters in a CCPT playroom.

264
00:09:27,479 --> 00:09:28,190
Good grief.

265
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:28,820
I,

266
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,159
I always say the why matters,

267
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,770
but I could have a laundry list of everything that matters.

268
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:34,530
Congruence matters too.

269
00:09:34,719 --> 00:09:35,750
Neutrality matters.

270
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:36,020
I,

271
00:09:36,239 --> 00:09:36,299
there,

272
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,559
there's a whole lot of them.

273
00:09:38,979 --> 00:09:40,599
If we're being incongruent,

274
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:42,789
because we're paying lip service

275
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,080
and saying the right thing,

276
00:09:44,159 --> 00:09:45,429
we talked about this in the last episode,

277
00:09:45,479 --> 00:09:45,830
right?

278
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,840
We can say all the right things.

279
00:09:49,059 --> 00:09:50,719
And not be neutral at all.

280
00:09:53,469 --> 00:09:55,109
Because we're not dying to ourselves.

281
00:09:57,359 --> 00:09:58,390
Get out of the way.

282
00:10:00,359 --> 00:10:01,880
Be completely accepting.

283
00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:04,770
Trust the process.

284
00:10:05,909 --> 00:10:07,059
That's neutrality.

285
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,309
I get questions all the time.

286
00:10:09,390 --> 00:10:11,140
How do you handle aggression in the playroom?

287
00:10:11,349 --> 00:10:13,380
How do you handle lobby sessions?

288
00:10:13,549 --> 00:10:14,640
How do you handle

289
00:10:15,109 --> 00:10:15,309
this,

290
00:10:15,429 --> 00:10:15,590
that,

291
00:10:15,630 --> 00:10:16,210
the other?

292
00:10:16,549 --> 00:10:17,739
You wanna know how I handle it?

293
00:10:18,229 --> 00:10:18,859
neutrally.

294
00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:22,059
And I'm not saying that to boast,

295
00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:23,690
I'm not saying that to be

296
00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:24,849
cocky.

297
00:10:25,539 --> 00:10:28,650
I'm saying that because that's what CCPT is.

298
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,260
It's unconditional acceptance.

299
00:10:33,809 --> 00:10:36,169
I accept whatever it is.

300
00:10:38,330 --> 00:10:39,549
I'm dying to self.

301
00:10:40,570 --> 00:10:41,369
My opinions,

302
00:10:41,450 --> 00:10:42,039
my thoughts,

303
00:10:42,049 --> 00:10:42,719
my feelings,

304
00:10:42,729 --> 00:10:44,570
while I honor them to be congruent.

305
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,250
They don't influence anything that I do,

306
00:10:47,739 --> 00:10:48,619
anything that I say.

307
00:10:50,770 --> 00:10:52,429
And I put myself aside.

308
00:10:53,890 --> 00:10:55,590
And I just let things unfold.

309
00:10:57,059 --> 00:10:57,950
That to me

310
00:10:58,159 --> 00:10:59,349
is what neutrality is.

311
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,549
as close to

312
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,750
a definition as I can muster.

313
00:11:04,159 --> 00:11:04,760
So,

314
00:11:05,159 --> 00:11:06,239
I hope that that encourages you.

315
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,369
It might challenge you.

316
00:11:08,260 --> 00:11:08,599
We're,

317
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,679
we're free to use our brains as play therapists,

318
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:11,280
right?

319
00:11:11,359 --> 00:11:12,280
God gave us brains,

320
00:11:12,359 --> 00:11:13,190
let's use them.

321
00:11:13,599 --> 00:11:16,000
So my hope is that it challenges you,

322
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,239
it encourages you,

323
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,099
gives you some food for thought.

324
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,320
I love marinating thoughts.

325
00:11:22,179 --> 00:11:24,400
I love it when I keep coming back to something.

326
00:11:25,349 --> 00:11:26,619
Because it means that

327
00:11:26,750 --> 00:11:27,830
I'm sorting it out,

328
00:11:28,239 --> 00:11:29,229
means that I'm learning.

329
00:11:30,020 --> 00:11:31,820
Means that my brain doesn't want to quite let

330
00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:34,380
it go yet because it's still processing something.

331
00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:37,750
In your play sessions this week,

332
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,109
think about dying to self

333
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,109
and see if it doesn't give you a sense of freedom that you have not felt before.

334
00:11:45,219 --> 00:11:49,070
See if it does not give you a sense of acceptance that you have not felt before.

335
00:11:51,130 --> 00:11:52,559
And I'd love to hear your thoughts.

336
00:11:53,159 --> 00:11:55,710
So email me brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

337
00:11:56,119 --> 00:11:56,900
I love you all so much.

338
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,590
Have a great week.

339
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:58,080
Bye.

340
00:11:59,229 --> 00:12:01,989
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

341
00:12:02,150 --> 00:12:03,059
Brenna Hicks.

342
00:12:03,229 --> 00:12:05,190
For more episodes and resources,

343
00:12:05,309 --> 00:12:10,070
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.