Episode 173: Building Soil Health on Limited Rainfall with Jeremy Brown

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Hi friends, this is John.

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Welcome back to the Region of

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Agriculture podcast.

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You know the drill.

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We have all kinds of fun

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conversations here.

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Today we,

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I'm being joined by a guest and

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someone who I consider

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friend and acquaintance,

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Jeremy Brown from Texas.

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Dry land,

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difficult areas of Texas.

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At least that's the way he

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described them to me when I

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first met him.

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So Jeremy, thank you for being

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here.

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What prompted us having this

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conversation?

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I was in Texas just recently

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speaking with a group of cotton

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growers. Jeremy was there and

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was on the panel as well.

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And I was really intrigued by

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your comments about

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not farming outside or not

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trying to farm beyond your

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context.

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And I'd love to just kick things

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off and dive right into the

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weeds on that. Tell us a little

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bit about

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your operation,

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the context, the environment

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that you're farming in, and how

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that has evolved over the years

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and some of the reasons why.

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Okay.

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Yeah, well, first,

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John, it's a privilege and an

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honor to be a part of your

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podcast.

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I've enjoyed listening to this

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for many years.

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I can't tell you how many times

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I've sat in a pickup listening

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to

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people that you've interviewed,

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from Gabe Brown to Dr.

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Wyatt at Rutgers.

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I just, I mean, the list goes on

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and on and it's been helped me

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learn in my regenerative journey

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as I've been on this journey for

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a

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while now.

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Yeah, so we farm in the Southern

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Plains. So the very,

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very far end of the Plains, I

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guess, if you're looking at a

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map,

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we are predominantly a cotton

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farm. My personal operation is

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predominantly an organic cotton

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farm.

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It's been a journey.

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as I said.

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I grew up farming with my dad,

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my granddad,

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but in the late 90s, early

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2000s, granddad retired, my dad

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quit farming.

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And so I was away from the farm

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for about 10 years because the

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only way I could farm was with

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the help of my father and he was

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no longer doing it.

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And so the opportunity for me to

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farm, that door was closed.

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Uh, and so the reason why I like

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to tell that story so that

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people kind of have an idea of

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how I got to where I am,

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but, uh, about 10, I was away

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from it for about 10 years and

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production agriculture

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drastically changed in those 10

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years. You know, we, we now had

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roundup ready technology.

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Uh, we understood more about,

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uh,

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synthetic fertilizer than when

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to apply them. And so with the

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help of my father -in -law, he

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saw my love and passion for

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farming in 2008.

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He helped me kind of get

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started.

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And then I did that part -time

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for a year.

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And then the end of 2009, going

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into 2010, I went into farming

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full -time.

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And like I said, things had

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really changed.

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I mean, I grew up farming with

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my dad, but I mean, now, you

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know, we had a herbicide that we

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thought fixed all of our

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problems.

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We also had cotton that was bred

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to, you know,

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not deal with boll worms and

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other things. And so,

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It seemed like it was real easy,

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I thought. And so

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that was 2010.

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But in 2013,

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I really started this journey

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that was, for me,

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it was my faith.

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I'm a Christian.

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I submit to God and his word.

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And when I was reading my Bible

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one day, it was just a simple,

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you know, daily Bible reading,

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nothing spectacular.

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I'd read this verse a hundred

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times probably.

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But in the Gospels, you know,

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Jesus talks about

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the parable of the seed and the

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sower.

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And I know that he goes on and

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explains it and

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that there's spiritual

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things to

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the parable.

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But, you know, he says something

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that just kind of caught me off

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guard. And it said, you know,

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and some seed fell on good soil

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and the reaped harvest a

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hundredfold.

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And I just had this thought

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where I felt like God was asking

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me the question, what does it

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mean to have good soil?

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And I didn't have an answer.

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All I knew is my degree's in

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agriculture.

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I got a degree from Texas Tech

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University

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in agriculture.

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And all I knew is what I learned

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in school. All I knew is what I

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saw my dad do. And then all I

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knew was what my chemical and

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fertilizer sales rep was telling

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me.

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And so that really began the

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journey of,

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What does this all mean?

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And, you know,

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how this is, as you learn more,

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you realize how little you know.

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And so,

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as I fast forward, that was

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2013,

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and here we are,

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you know, 2026.

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We've grown our operation.

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We farm, like I said, just under

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4 ,000 acres of certified

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organic land, mostly

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cotton.

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We do grow organic wheat that we

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sell to people that make their

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own bread.

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And then we

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grow organic grain sorghum.

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We have a cow -calf operation.

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We do a lot of regenerative

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practices.

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Like I said,

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there's an old story about how

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that kept evolving.

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But yeah, to get to our context,

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we're a very dry climate.

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Actually, before we go to

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context, now you raised

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something interesting.

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You didn't finish that thought.

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I'd like to know where you've

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arrived after 13 years.

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What does it mean to have good

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soil?

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Yeah, I've learned that

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it's different.

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Like, you know, I really focus

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on the six whole six soil health

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principles.

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But

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at the same time, the number one

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principle is know your context.

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And

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when you're in a dry climate,

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you can be trying to do all the

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principles and then you go

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through a drought.

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And

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and, you know, so I just I

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started learning, like,

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just all the things that we were

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doing in production, our culture

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from synthetic fertilizers to I

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uses herbicides to, uh, you

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know, just even, I think I

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listened to one of your podcast

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years ago about how the bowl,

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the bowl guard technology and

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cotton is affecting the

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beneficial insects.

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The, the, uh,

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the wasp, the, the, I think it

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was a professor from Georgia or

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Joe Lewis.

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It was an awesome conversation.

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Yeah, it was. And, you know, and

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I just kept.

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As I kept going down this

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journey, I kept thinking, man,

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this is not, for me as a person

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of faith, this is not how God

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created this. I mean,

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and so I just kept, you know, I

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started reading a lot of books.

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I started listening to you and

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others.

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You know, I read Gabe's book,

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Dirt to Soil. I read Alan

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Sabre's book on holistic

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management. And that really

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opened my eyes to this idea of

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brittle environments versus non

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-brittle environments.

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And, you know, I started

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realizing, man, I'm in a brittle

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environment.

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Man, there's a lot of different

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challenges that that presents.

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And so,

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yeah, I don't know if I still

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have,

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I can say this is what good soil

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is.

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I have an idea of what I want it

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to look like, but it's continued

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to evolve and change and

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also realize that maybe I was

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putting some expectations on the

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soil that I was farming

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that were not

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I'm not saying attainable, but

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realistic at times.

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Just because, like I said, we go

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through a lot of droughts.

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I was about to ask you about

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that.

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You mentioned you can do all

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these practices and then you

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have drought for a couple of

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years. And for people who are

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not familiar with your

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environment, what are the

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implications of that?

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What does that mean exactly?

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Yeah, well, a lot.

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you know, when you're so rough

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in my personal operation, 70 %

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of it is rain fed only.

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And if

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you take the last, you know, the

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last really good cotton crop

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that I had was 2021.

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And then 22 was a bad drought,

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23 was a bad drought, 24 and

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being like, we didn't harvest

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anything on these dry land

291
00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:30,540
acres. Now that the farms that

292
00:08:30,540 --> 00:08:32,100
we have irrigation, we were able

293
00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:33,399
to at least supplement enough to

294
00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:34,199
harvest a crop.

295
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,320
But, you know, you're sitting

296
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:37,480
there thinking, man, like,

297
00:08:38,110 --> 00:08:39,570
If it wasn't for crop insurance

298
00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:41,750
and some of these safety net

299
00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:42,889
programs that we have,

300
00:08:43,429 --> 00:08:44,549
and we're blessed that we have

301
00:08:44,549 --> 00:08:45,909
them in the United States,

302
00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:47,480
but

303
00:08:47,250 --> 00:08:49,620
you start realizing like, man,

304
00:08:49,659 --> 00:08:50,960
this is not sustainable.

305
00:08:51,319 --> 00:08:52,120
Like this is not,

306
00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:53,870
this is how this has always

307
00:08:53,870 --> 00:08:55,069
been. And I've always heard, you

308
00:08:55,069 --> 00:08:56,450
know, previous generations talk

309
00:08:56,450 --> 00:08:57,909
about one every five years or

310
00:08:57,909 --> 00:08:59,110
one every three years, you make

311
00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:59,909
a good crop.

312
00:09:00,769 --> 00:09:02,269
Well, you know, with the, the,

313
00:09:02,330 --> 00:09:04,009
the way the economics of farming

314
00:09:04,009 --> 00:09:04,809
is today.

315
00:09:04,950 --> 00:09:06,069
And if you're sitting there,

316
00:09:06,409 --> 00:09:07,529
you know, you sit there and you

317
00:09:07,529 --> 00:09:08,470
think, well, if we're just doing

318
00:09:08,470 --> 00:09:09,769
this and we're only surviving

319
00:09:09,769 --> 00:09:10,789
off crop insurance,

320
00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:12,710
is this really what we're

321
00:09:12,710 --> 00:09:13,730
supposed to be doing out here?

322
00:09:14,190 --> 00:09:15,330
And so it just really made me

323
00:09:15,330 --> 00:09:16,129
start

324
00:09:16,029 --> 00:09:17,809
questioning. I'm not saying I've

325
00:09:18,059 --> 00:09:19,120
come up with all the answers,

326
00:09:19,279 --> 00:09:20,419
but you start going back to,

327
00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:21,799
well, there was a reason why

328
00:09:21,799 --> 00:09:23,299
this was a short prairie grass

329
00:09:23,769 --> 00:09:25,490
for generations.

330
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:27,620
And then we decided to start

331
00:09:27,620 --> 00:09:28,779
growing cotton.

332
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,299
And then we found out, oh,

333
00:09:30,319 --> 00:09:31,700
there's some underground water,

334
00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:33,690
which we're depleting really

335
00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:34,490
fast. And so,

336
00:09:35,309 --> 00:09:36,109
yeah, it's

337
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,960
It's been a journey and it's

338
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:40,759
exciting.

339
00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:41,629
Like I said, when you go through

340
00:09:41,549 --> 00:09:42,429
these drought years,

341
00:09:42,889 --> 00:09:44,850
and then, you know, for me, I

342
00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:45,950
use a lot of cover cropping.

343
00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:46,870
I try to,

344
00:09:47,470 --> 00:09:48,509
you know, let's just look at the

345
00:09:48,509 --> 00:09:49,370
basic economics.

346
00:09:49,610 --> 00:09:50,929
So, I use a lot of cover crops.

347
00:09:51,529 --> 00:09:52,830
Well, there's been a couple

348
00:09:52,830 --> 00:09:54,269
years there where we interseeded

349
00:09:54,269 --> 00:09:55,090
our cover crops.

350
00:09:55,230 --> 00:09:56,950
I spent a lot of money on multi

351
00:09:56,950 --> 00:09:57,830
-species covers,

352
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,240
and one

353
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:01,980
of those years, none of it came

354
00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:03,100
up because we never got to rain.

355
00:10:03,889 --> 00:10:06,070
And so, those are things that

356
00:10:06,070 --> 00:10:06,870
can really

357
00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:08,309
Um,

358
00:10:08,629 --> 00:10:10,129
it challenges you, but you have

359
00:10:10,129 --> 00:10:11,429
to go back to just believing in

360
00:10:11,429 --> 00:10:13,720
what you're doing and believing

361
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,000
in the, the, the principles

362
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,090
believing in, you know, the,

363
00:10:18,090 --> 00:10:19,429
the, the land wants to be

364
00:10:19,429 --> 00:10:21,840
covered and and so adapt.

365
00:10:21,940 --> 00:10:23,059
I mean, I had that situation

366
00:10:23,059 --> 00:10:24,500
this year. We intercede a lot of

367
00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:25,820
our covers into our cotton.

368
00:10:26,830 --> 00:10:28,490
And, uh, so we do that in

369
00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:29,289
September.

370
00:10:29,330 --> 00:10:30,610
We had a rain, a lot of the

371
00:10:30,610 --> 00:10:31,850
cover crops came up, but then it

372
00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:33,710
got really hot and dry, which it

373
00:10:33,710 --> 00:10:34,929
was like abnormally hot.

374
00:10:34,929 --> 00:10:36,309
Like on Christmas, it was 85

375
00:10:36,309 --> 00:10:37,109
degrees.

376
00:10:37,409 --> 00:10:38,590
Wow. A lot of, a lot of those

377
00:10:38,590 --> 00:10:39,970
covers started dying.

378
00:10:40,759 --> 00:10:42,019
Well, I get a lot of my cover

379
00:10:42,019 --> 00:10:43,480
crop seed from green cover seed

380
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:44,519
and I called Keith and I'm like,

381
00:10:44,580 --> 00:10:45,379
man,

382
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:46,840
a lot of my covers have died,

383
00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:47,700
but I still believe in the

384
00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:48,779
principle. Do you have anything

385
00:10:48,779 --> 00:10:49,579
that I could just,

386
00:10:49,860 --> 00:10:51,419
you know, from a cost effective.

387
00:10:51,539 --> 00:10:52,339
And so we were just like, man,

388
00:10:52,319 --> 00:10:53,159
let's get a bunch of rye.

389
00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:55,590
We replanted everything again in

390
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:57,330
January and it worked out.

391
00:10:57,409 --> 00:10:58,209
We had a little

392
00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:01,500
snow slash rain event and we got

393
00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:02,460
the covers up this time.

394
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,019
So anyways, it's just constantly

395
00:11:05,019 --> 00:11:06,519
trying to adapt and realize

396
00:11:06,519 --> 00:11:07,819
there's no set formula and you

397
00:11:07,819 --> 00:11:09,059
got to be flexible and

398
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:11,149
you got to stick with the

399
00:11:11,149 --> 00:11:12,470
principles and not just give up

400
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:13,529
when it doesn't work.

401
00:11:16,049 --> 00:11:18,750
But yeah, the context is really

402
00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:19,549
big.

403
00:11:19,769 --> 00:11:21,549
I think the implication of what

404
00:11:21,549 --> 00:11:22,450
you're saying, and I think I

405
00:11:22,450 --> 00:11:23,470
maybe have heard you say this

406
00:11:23,470 --> 00:11:24,710
before, and you haven't said it

407
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:26,509
in this conversation, but you

408
00:11:26,509 --> 00:11:27,309
can have

409
00:11:27,690 --> 00:11:30,490
several years of improvements to

410
00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:33,149
soil health and have a drought

411
00:11:33,149 --> 00:11:35,110
just wipe all of that right off

412
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:35,909
the table.

413
00:11:36,659 --> 00:11:37,459
Yeah.

414
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:38,879
Yeah. I mean,

415
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:39,919
yeah.

416
00:11:39,740 --> 00:11:40,720
Yeah. It's a,

417
00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:42,700
it's pretty humbling when that

418
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:43,799
happens. Cause you think, oh, I

419
00:11:43,799 --> 00:11:44,599
did everything right.

420
00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:45,679
And I've got everything out

421
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:46,519
there and I bought the right

422
00:11:46,519 --> 00:11:47,460
seed or whatever.

423
00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:48,259
And,

424
00:11:48,179 --> 00:11:49,480
and then, you know,

425
00:11:49,799 --> 00:11:52,019
I just remember 21, 2021,

426
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,320
we got,

427
00:11:55,799 --> 00:11:57,220
we had a really good cotton crop

428
00:11:57,220 --> 00:11:59,179
that year, but once we got into

429
00:11:59,179 --> 00:12:00,820
September, it quit raining.

430
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,259
And I remember that year, we

431
00:12:03,259 --> 00:12:04,899
almost went 12 months with no

432
00:12:04,899 --> 00:12:06,519
rain. It was it was extremely

433
00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:07,319
bad drought.

434
00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:09,399
And I mean, there's nothing you

435
00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:10,199
can do.

436
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,019
And you try to,

437
00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:14,070
you know, steward it well, you

438
00:12:14,070 --> 00:12:15,149
try to, you know,

439
00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:17,309
maintain the land the best you

440
00:12:17,309 --> 00:12:18,109
can.

441
00:12:18,820 --> 00:12:19,899
But, you know,

442
00:12:20,259 --> 00:12:21,379
you're limited on what you can

443
00:12:21,379 --> 00:12:22,179
do.

444
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,039
So when

445
00:12:24,169 --> 00:12:26,029
you think about not farming

446
00:12:26,029 --> 00:12:27,669
beyond your context, I think is

447
00:12:27,669 --> 00:12:28,570
the phrase that you used

448
00:12:28,570 --> 00:12:29,370
earlier.

449
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:31,919
What

450
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,720
what has that come to mean to

451
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,639
you and what is it, how do you

452
00:12:37,639 --> 00:12:39,940
see either yourself historically

453
00:12:39,940 --> 00:12:41,419
or other people farming beyond

454
00:12:41,419 --> 00:12:42,219
their context?

455
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:43,620
What are some examples of that?

456
00:12:45,299 --> 00:12:46,099
Well,

457
00:12:46,279 --> 00:12:47,079
you know,

458
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:48,700
when anybody in production

459
00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:50,480
agriculture that's maybe not on

460
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,059
a regenerative journey and or

461
00:12:52,059 --> 00:12:52,859
maybe

462
00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:55,019
is pretty conventionally

463
00:12:55,019 --> 00:12:57,159
mindset, all they're told is

464
00:12:57,159 --> 00:12:58,360
it's all about yield.

465
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:01,680
And so we're constantly trying

466
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:03,220
to out yield

467
00:13:05,029 --> 00:13:06,210
And when you're in a low

468
00:13:06,210 --> 00:13:07,669
rainfall environment, if you

469
00:13:07,669 --> 00:13:08,469
think about it,

470
00:13:09,299 --> 00:13:10,159
you know, say you're an

471
00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:11,659
irrigated farmer, especially

472
00:13:11,659 --> 00:13:12,459
where we are,

473
00:13:13,180 --> 00:13:15,080
any kind of irrigation, you're

474
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,950
trying to overcome the dry

475
00:13:16,950 --> 00:13:18,250
climate that you farm in.

476
00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:20,340
And so even irrigation, in my

477
00:13:20,340 --> 00:13:21,139
mindset,

478
00:13:21,259 --> 00:13:22,480
is a

479
00:13:23,139 --> 00:13:25,399
way to try to outperform the

480
00:13:25,399 --> 00:13:26,319
environments that you really

481
00:13:26,319 --> 00:13:27,119
farm in.

482
00:13:28,309 --> 00:13:30,569
And so when you're in a low

483
00:13:30,569 --> 00:13:31,369
rainfall environment, it's all

484
00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:32,870
about yield and you're trying to

485
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:34,149
go out there and,

486
00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:35,769
you know,

487
00:13:35,710 --> 00:13:36,730
grow a crop

488
00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:39,139
and you, you know, say you set

489
00:13:39,139 --> 00:13:41,779
your budget at a yield that's

490
00:13:41,779 --> 00:13:44,200
not really attainable.

491
00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:46,120
And so if you look at the,

492
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:47,879
and I'm talking about rain fed

493
00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:48,779
only cotton,

494
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,679
but if you look at the, you

495
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,580
know, if you just do 20, 30 year

496
00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:55,779
average dryland cotton yield,

497
00:13:56,610 --> 00:13:58,389
in West Texas it hadn't changed

498
00:13:58,389 --> 00:14:00,389
even with new technologies and

499
00:14:00,570 --> 00:14:01,970
yeah you'll have an odd year in

500
00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:03,210
there but even with synthetic

501
00:14:03,210 --> 00:14:04,690
fertilizers I mean it's you know

502
00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:06,710
it's 250 to 300 pound cotton

503
00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:09,720
and but yet we're always going

504
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,399
out there trying to you

505
00:14:11,970 --> 00:14:13,330
know oh well I can you know

506
00:14:13,330 --> 00:14:14,789
spend more and

507
00:14:15,259 --> 00:14:16,759
you know and I tell people a lot

508
00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:18,240
of times like what I've learned

509
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,279
and and just just observation

510
00:14:20,279 --> 00:14:22,120
and just you know seeing all

511
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:22,919
this you

512
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:24,399
know if I get a good rain in

513
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:26,220
August I can make cotton you

514
00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:27,340
know if we get

515
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,539
If we get that rain, that timely

516
00:14:29,539 --> 00:14:30,779
rain, I mean, that's the thing

517
00:14:30,779 --> 00:14:32,299
about cotton. Well, anything you

518
00:14:32,299 --> 00:14:33,539
grow, it's not so much about how

519
00:14:33,539 --> 00:14:35,039
much you get. It's about when

520
00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:36,669
you get it and how much you

521
00:14:36,669 --> 00:14:38,269
actually get into the soil.

522
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:39,269
And so,

523
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:40,319
yeah,

524
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,680
it's but I see people and but

525
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:43,960
the whole industry is wrapped

526
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:44,759
around that. Like,

527
00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:47,110
you know, when when John Deere

528
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:49,230
comes out and says, OK, we're

529
00:14:49,230 --> 00:14:50,069
going to we're going to

530
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:51,610
revolutionize the cotton

531
00:14:51,610 --> 00:14:52,750
harvesting machine.

532
00:14:53,559 --> 00:14:55,580
And this is the only option you

533
00:14:55,580 --> 00:14:57,419
got. And it's priced at a

534
00:14:57,419 --> 00:14:58,219
million dollars.

535
00:14:59,009 --> 00:14:59,809
you know,

536
00:14:59,889 --> 00:15:01,230
that that might work in areas

537
00:15:01,230 --> 00:15:02,730
that they can, you know,

538
00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:05,819
make a better yield or whatever.

539
00:15:06,059 --> 00:15:06,859
But

540
00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:09,279
in dry land, West Texas, you

541
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:10,639
can't afford to pay for the

542
00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:11,439
machine.

543
00:15:11,460 --> 00:15:12,860
And so you get into this rat

544
00:15:12,860 --> 00:15:14,200
race of trying to,

545
00:15:14,769 --> 00:15:15,569
you know,

546
00:15:15,730 --> 00:15:17,110
increase your yield and then the

547
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:18,450
price of the commodity is low.

548
00:15:18,569 --> 00:15:19,490
And so it just seems like you're

549
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:20,289
just chasing.

550
00:15:20,509 --> 00:15:21,990
And like I said, you're just

551
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:23,309
you're not realizing that you

552
00:15:23,309 --> 00:15:24,250
farm in a desert.

553
00:15:24,569 --> 00:15:26,419
And I'm sorry, to my context.

554
00:15:27,409 --> 00:15:28,209
And

555
00:15:27,929 --> 00:15:29,809
so, I've shifted to,

556
00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:31,450
of course, I'm an organic

557
00:15:31,450 --> 00:15:32,789
farmer. I catch my own seed.

558
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,539
I don't pay a technology fee.

559
00:15:37,649 --> 00:15:38,490
Yeah, I don't use any

560
00:15:38,490 --> 00:15:39,289
herbicides.

561
00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:40,710
I mean, we've gotten down to

562
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:41,970
very low input

563
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:43,740
farming.

564
00:15:43,879 --> 00:15:45,659
We do seed treatments.

565
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:46,960
We use bio -code gold.

566
00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:48,539
Awesome.

567
00:15:48,539 --> 00:15:50,700
Yeah, on our cotton seed.

568
00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:53,960
um you know we do that we we use

569
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,159
seed treatments on our cover

570
00:15:55,159 --> 00:15:56,279
crops that we get from green

571
00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:57,200
cover seed and

572
00:15:57,549 --> 00:15:59,210
uh but those are pretty minimal

573
00:15:59,210 --> 00:16:00,669
expenses and to me those are

574
00:16:00,669 --> 00:16:01,830
things that you know it's just

575
00:16:01,830 --> 00:16:03,110
going to benefit the soil health

576
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:04,909
but then but anything outside

577
00:16:04,909 --> 00:16:07,370
that um you know we're trying

578
00:16:07,370 --> 00:16:09,090
for my personal operation i'm

579
00:16:09,090 --> 00:16:09,889
trying to

580
00:16:10,129 --> 00:16:10,929
you know

581
00:16:10,789 --> 00:16:12,809
farm as cheap as i possibly can

582
00:16:12,809 --> 00:16:15,029
just because the context that i

583
00:16:15,029 --> 00:16:17,129
farm in yeah

584
00:16:17,690 --> 00:16:19,610
i found i found your data point

585
00:16:19,610 --> 00:16:22,230
in history quite intriguing that

586
00:16:23,669 --> 00:16:25,210
over the last 30 years, cotton

587
00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:26,549
yields haven't really increased

588
00:16:26,549 --> 00:16:27,529
in spite of technology.

589
00:16:27,669 --> 00:16:28,769
That doesn't sound like a great

590
00:16:28,769 --> 00:16:30,049
endorsement of the technology,

591
00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:31,389
at least for your environment.

592
00:16:32,649 --> 00:16:34,049
No, and in fact, honestly, I

593
00:16:34,049 --> 00:16:34,849
think,

594
00:16:35,059 --> 00:16:36,379
you know, because

595
00:16:36,950 --> 00:16:38,370
I still have some land that's

596
00:16:38,370 --> 00:16:39,169
not organic.

597
00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:42,080
There's been many years my

598
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,580
organic cotton,

599
00:16:43,940 --> 00:16:45,180
which is a variety of cotton

600
00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:46,620
that was developed in the 90s

601
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:47,799
that has no GMOs,

602
00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:51,490
it competes or outcompetes some

603
00:16:51,490 --> 00:16:52,850
of these new technologies that

604
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:53,649
we have.

605
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:54,230
Now,

606
00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:55,610
I don't have a herbicide that I

607
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:56,549
can spray over the top,

608
00:16:57,289 --> 00:16:58,610
but so that is a challenge.

609
00:16:58,769 --> 00:16:59,769
I mean, I've got to deal with,

610
00:16:59,809 --> 00:17:00,609
you know,

611
00:17:00,730 --> 00:17:02,350
the weeds and stuff like that.

612
00:17:02,450 --> 00:17:03,250
But

613
00:17:03,059 --> 00:17:05,119
still, from a yielding

614
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,819
standpoint on a dryland cotton

615
00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:07,619
farm,

616
00:17:08,269 --> 00:17:09,069
I don't,

617
00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:12,529
the technology's not improved

618
00:17:12,529 --> 00:17:14,529
yield, I don't, from what my

619
00:17:14,529 --> 00:17:15,750
experience is now.

620
00:17:16,420 --> 00:17:17,220
so

621
00:17:18,259 --> 00:17:20,759
I want to also talk about the

622
00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:21,660
livestock side of your

623
00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:23,480
operation, but since we're

624
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,200
having a conversation around

625
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,440
cotton, what does

626
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,000
organic cotton production in

627
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,480
your operation look like?

628
00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:33,980
Yeah, so

629
00:17:34,539 --> 00:17:35,339
go ahead.

630
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:37,460
You mentioned that you're

631
00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:38,359
interseeding it with cover

632
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:39,159
crops.

633
00:17:39,299 --> 00:17:40,880
I don't know if there is such a

634
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,019
thing as a rotation that makes

635
00:17:42,019 --> 00:17:43,660
sense in your context, but yeah,

636
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,339
what does the cultural

637
00:17:45,339 --> 00:17:46,559
management practices look like?

638
00:17:47,079 --> 00:17:47,879
Yeah.

639
00:17:47,819 --> 00:17:49,319
Yeah. Rotations, first off,

640
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,440
extremely challenging for us

641
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,240
just because of market

642
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:53,079
availability.

643
00:17:55,220 --> 00:17:56,519
You know, we're limited on the

644
00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:57,400
crops that we can grow.

645
00:17:57,740 --> 00:17:58,539
I mean, you know,

646
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,819
our driest months are the winter

647
00:18:01,819 --> 00:18:03,680
months. So you're going to, you

648
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,480
know,

649
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:06,009
if you're dryland only,

650
00:18:06,819 --> 00:18:07,980
you're really limited on what

651
00:18:07,980 --> 00:18:08,779
you can grow in the winter.

652
00:18:08,859 --> 00:18:10,099
Besides, I don't mind growing

653
00:18:10,099 --> 00:18:11,200
cover crops. I'm talking about

654
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,440
if I'm trying to grow a cash

655
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,799
crop, there's really no option

656
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:14,599
there.

657
00:18:14,769 --> 00:18:16,329
So then if you look, like I

658
00:18:16,329 --> 00:18:17,710
said, from a from a rain fed

659
00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:19,250
only production system,

660
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:20,710
you know, cotton, cotton's a

661
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:22,269
very drought tolerant plant, and

662
00:18:22,269 --> 00:18:24,150
it can it can do well out here.

663
00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:25,769
But we're really, really limited

664
00:18:25,769 --> 00:18:28,009
to that and maybe grain sorghum.

665
00:18:29,269 --> 00:18:31,069
And from when you're an organic

666
00:18:31,069 --> 00:18:32,650
farmer, you know, you've always

667
00:18:32,650 --> 00:18:33,529
got to make sure there's a

668
00:18:33,529 --> 00:18:34,730
market for the product that

669
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:35,529
you're growing.

670
00:18:35,670 --> 00:18:37,849
And there's there's some

671
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:39,980
some markets that are developing

672
00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:41,200
for the grain sorghum with the

673
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,119
organic dairies.

674
00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:44,440
But, you know, I'm pretty

675
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,779
limited on cotton.

676
00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:47,839
And also something that people

677
00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:48,940
forget is

678
00:18:49,339 --> 00:18:50,859
as a farmer, the only risk

679
00:18:50,859 --> 00:18:52,559
management tool I have at times

680
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:53,599
is my crop insurance.

681
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,460
I mean, so when I'm going out

682
00:18:55,460 --> 00:18:56,259
there and I'm making that

683
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:57,200
decision, as much as I would

684
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,000
love to plant,

685
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:00,480
let's say, sesame or guar or

686
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,799
something, and I have grown all

687
00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:02,599
those crops,

688
00:19:03,049 --> 00:19:04,630
there's not a safety net program

689
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:06,369
to protect me in case we're in a

690
00:19:06,369 --> 00:19:07,169
drought.

691
00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:08,710
And so I have to sit there and

692
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:09,509
look at, okay,

693
00:19:10,049 --> 00:19:11,049
from a risk management

694
00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:12,170
standpoint, like

695
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:14,950
cotton right now is, is, has the

696
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:16,339
best. safety net from a crop

697
00:19:16,339 --> 00:19:18,039
insurance that I purchased to

698
00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:19,119
protect me

699
00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:21,609
if we don't get that rain in

700
00:19:21,609 --> 00:19:23,170
August, which, like I said, if

701
00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:25,109
you take one out of five years,

702
00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:27,309
your odds are you're probably

703
00:19:27,309 --> 00:19:28,569
not going to make that crop.

704
00:19:28,809 --> 00:19:30,009
I mean, I hate to say that, but

705
00:19:30,009 --> 00:19:30,809
that's reality.

706
00:19:31,509 --> 00:19:32,410
And that's why I'm constantly

707
00:19:32,410 --> 00:19:33,589
thinking, man, I don't know if

708
00:19:33,589 --> 00:19:34,549
this is even what we're supposed

709
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:35,450
to be doing. But anyways,

710
00:19:36,009 --> 00:19:37,670
so yeah,

711
00:19:38,049 --> 00:19:40,529
we grow mostly organic cotton.

712
00:19:41,059 --> 00:19:41,859
Um,

713
00:19:41,859 --> 00:19:44,059
and, and go into context, um,

714
00:19:45,009 --> 00:19:45,930
you know, as I began that

715
00:19:45,930 --> 00:19:46,730
journey,

716
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:48,640
uh, you know, you had these, you

717
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,980
had these aha moments and, you

718
00:19:51,289 --> 00:19:52,569
know, forever out here in West

719
00:19:52,569 --> 00:19:53,990
Texas, they harvest their cotton

720
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:55,470
and then they, they plant their

721
00:19:55,470 --> 00:19:56,450
wheat for cover.

722
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:57,650
You know, that's, that's a,

723
00:19:58,019 --> 00:19:59,640
That's pretty typically done

724
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,960
because of wind erosion really

725
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,960
nothing for soil health is more

726
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,279
just I don't want, you know,

727
00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:07,740
the, the dirt to be blowing is

728
00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:09,539
really what most people do.

729
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,079
But I'd already been on this

730
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:13,119
journey of multi species covers

731
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,319
and trying to trying to.

732
00:20:14,819 --> 00:20:15,619
But, you know, when you're

733
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:16,519
planting, when you're harvesting

734
00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:17,619
your cotton in December,

735
00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:18,960
November, December, it's pretty

736
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,259
cold. And so then you get really

737
00:20:20,259 --> 00:20:22,319
limited on what you can plant.

738
00:20:22,539 --> 00:20:23,339
And so that,

739
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:23,960
you know,

740
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,299
but then I was sitting in a

741
00:20:25,299 --> 00:20:26,839
meeting one day and it was just

742
00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:28,759
a meeting that our local weather

743
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:31,940
forecast news station

744
00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:33,420
was talking about,

745
00:20:33,849 --> 00:20:34,649
you know,

746
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:35,539
our average rainfall.

747
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:36,779
And I kind of already knew that,

748
00:20:36,819 --> 00:20:38,220
you know, we're 15 to 18 inches

749
00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:39,019
on average.

750
00:20:40,170 --> 00:20:42,349
But then he put a chart that

751
00:20:42,349 --> 00:20:44,049
showed the average rainfall by

752
00:20:44,049 --> 00:20:44,849
month.

753
00:20:45,289 --> 00:20:47,349
And it was just kind of like, oh

754
00:20:47,349 --> 00:20:49,549
my gosh, I kind of knew it in my

755
00:20:49,549 --> 00:20:50,690
head, but I've never really seen

756
00:20:50,690 --> 00:20:52,369
it. And on that chart, and this

757
00:20:52,369 --> 00:20:53,170
I'm talking about,

758
00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:54,599
let's just say Lubbock,

759
00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:57,329
he was using the data from the

760
00:20:57,329 --> 00:20:58,609
airport in Lubbock.

761
00:20:59,630 --> 00:21:00,849
He took a 30 -year

762
00:21:01,349 --> 00:21:02,410
chart,

763
00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:04,630
and if you look at that,

764
00:21:05,289 --> 00:21:07,089
the wettest months in our

765
00:21:07,089 --> 00:21:09,950
context is May, June, and then

766
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:10,750
September.

767
00:21:11,309 --> 00:21:12,869
And so September is your

768
00:21:13,180 --> 00:21:15,480
third wettest month on average.

769
00:21:16,099 --> 00:21:17,460
And when I saw that, I thought,

770
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:20,339
well, this is why I got to get

771
00:21:20,339 --> 00:21:22,259
these cover crops interseeded in

772
00:21:22,259 --> 00:21:23,059
September.

773
00:21:23,829 --> 00:21:25,769
And in my context, you know,

774
00:21:25,809 --> 00:21:26,750
when we get to the end of

775
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:27,829
August, first September, that

776
00:21:27,829 --> 00:21:29,430
cotton plant is pretty much,

777
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:31,799
you know, it's already cut out

778
00:21:31,799 --> 00:21:32,599
pretty much.

779
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,400
Yeah, it's filling some bowls,

780
00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:35,920
but it's water demand is really

781
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,940
decreasing.

782
00:21:37,470 --> 00:21:38,970
And so if we're going to get, if

783
00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:41,329
our average rainfall event or

784
00:21:41,329 --> 00:21:42,490
wettest rainfall event is

785
00:21:42,490 --> 00:21:43,289
September,

786
00:21:43,309 --> 00:21:46,069
so what we started changing at

787
00:21:46,069 --> 00:21:48,630
that time is interseeding.

788
00:21:48,829 --> 00:21:51,109
So we broadcast and interseed

789
00:21:51,109 --> 00:21:52,170
our cover crop mixes,

790
00:21:52,569 --> 00:21:53,809
and it's going to be a mixture

791
00:21:53,809 --> 00:21:55,589
of grasses, legumes, and

792
00:21:55,589 --> 00:21:56,389
brassicas.

793
00:21:56,890 --> 00:21:58,329
But we started interseeding

794
00:21:58,329 --> 00:21:59,309
those cover crops

795
00:22:00,069 --> 00:22:01,849
And of course, I'm organic, so

796
00:22:01,849 --> 00:22:03,329
we'll follow that with just a

797
00:22:03,329 --> 00:22:04,849
light shallow tillage of, you

798
00:22:04,849 --> 00:22:06,549
know, one to one and a half inch

799
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:07,630
just to put a little dirt to

800
00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:08,430
soil contact.

801
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:11,150
And, you know, I can honestly

802
00:22:11,150 --> 00:22:12,829
say there's only been one year

803
00:22:12,829 --> 00:22:15,940
and that was in twenty one or

804
00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:17,740
the fall of twenty one when it

805
00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:19,200
got so dry. But ever since then,

806
00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:20,140
we always get a rain.

807
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,859
And and it's been it's been one

808
00:22:23,859 --> 00:22:25,160
of the best things that I

809
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,680
changed because I get more

810
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:28,480
species

811
00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:30,460
where you're

812
00:22:30,819 --> 00:22:32,799
we're not having a lag in having

813
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:33,720
a living root,

814
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,079
you know, because the cotton is

815
00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:37,539
still maturing, the cover crops

816
00:22:37,539 --> 00:22:38,599
going underneath it.

817
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:39,990
And so normally,

818
00:22:40,190 --> 00:22:41,369
because I'm an organic, I don't

819
00:22:41,369 --> 00:22:43,190
use a herbicide to desiccate the

820
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:43,990
plant.

821
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,200
And so I'm waiting on a freeze.

822
00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:47,859
And so normally, you know, I

823
00:22:47,859 --> 00:22:49,559
would say most times, you know,

824
00:22:49,579 --> 00:22:50,519
like I said, you'll have an odd

825
00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:51,460
year in there. And like this

826
00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:52,680
year, it was kind of odd with

827
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,019
the heat that we had.

828
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,920
But normally we're driving on,

829
00:22:55,980 --> 00:22:57,720
you know, six, seven inch tall

830
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,119
rye and radishes and all these

831
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,380
things during harvest season.

832
00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:03,750
And then what's been great about

833
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:05,009
that and it's it's.

834
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,599
not going to say every year is

835
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:07,399
the same,

836
00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:09,500
but a lot of times, as soon as

837
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:10,700
we're done harvesting, we bring

838
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,500
in stocker cattle to graze, and

839
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:14,779
that's an additional income.

840
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,799
Really,

841
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,779
I tell people, if I can get

842
00:23:16,779 --> 00:23:18,240
enough stocker cattle to pay my

843
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,119
cover crop bill,

844
00:23:19,730 --> 00:23:21,190
I got free fertilizer, I got

845
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:21,990
free carbon.

846
00:23:23,569 --> 00:23:25,289
And then I get the biology and

847
00:23:25,289 --> 00:23:26,210
all the benefits of the

848
00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:27,990
livestock and the living root

849
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:30,970
and capturing carbon, all the

850
00:23:30,970 --> 00:23:32,210
things that cover crops do and

851
00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:33,009
livestock do.

852
00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:35,079
And so

853
00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,420
we change that.

854
00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:39,339
And then what we do is,

855
00:23:39,859 --> 00:23:40,759
like right now, they're all

856
00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:41,559
growing.

857
00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:42,359
And then

858
00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:43,960
it kind of depends on the stage

859
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:44,880
of the cover crop.

860
00:23:45,059 --> 00:23:46,680
But we try to let it grow as

861
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:47,980
long as we possibly can.

862
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:51,420
And so if it's irrigated land,

863
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:52,799
we'll terminate the cover as

864
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,420
close as we can to plant our

865
00:23:55,420 --> 00:23:56,220
cotton.

866
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,319
If it's dry land, we have to

867
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:00,380
terminate it 30 to 40 days

868
00:24:00,380 --> 00:24:01,839
before we plant according to

869
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:02,740
crop insurance rules.

870
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:03,700
And so,

871
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,660
yeah, we're just trying to

872
00:24:04,660 --> 00:24:06,440
maintain something living as

873
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,700
much as possible and keep the

874
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:10,500
ground covered,

875
00:24:10,779 --> 00:24:11,960
have a living root,

876
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:14,269
bring as much diversity as we

877
00:24:14,269 --> 00:24:15,069
can.

878
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:16,349
Because I don't have a big crop

879
00:24:16,349 --> 00:24:17,269
rotation plan,

880
00:24:17,779 --> 00:24:19,599
And we've, you know, this year I

881
00:24:19,599 --> 00:24:21,730
grew a thousand acres of organic

882
00:24:21,730 --> 00:24:23,230
grain sorghum. So we do do

883
00:24:23,230 --> 00:24:25,250
rotation when the situation

884
00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:26,150
presents itself.

885
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:29,740
But yeah, that's pretty typical

886
00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:31,400
of what we do on my farm and

887
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,200
operation.

888
00:24:32,609 --> 00:24:33,950
So you've spent a lot of time

889
00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:37,400
developing this and putting this

890
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,200
together.

891
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:39,779
You've described the win -win

892
00:24:39,779 --> 00:24:41,759
from a soil health and overall

893
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:43,000
ecosystem health perspective

894
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,799
very well.

895
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:46,119
When I think about the scenario

896
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,000
that you're describing,

897
00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:49,440
It seems to me that from a land

898
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,779
stewardship perspective, it

899
00:24:50,779 --> 00:24:51,799
would be very appealing.

900
00:24:52,869 --> 00:24:53,669
So

901
00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:56,529
what are the challenges that

902
00:24:56,529 --> 00:24:57,769
prevent more people from

903
00:24:57,769 --> 00:24:59,089
adopting and and perhaps one of

904
00:24:59,089 --> 00:25:00,089
the sub questions with it.

905
00:25:00,380 --> 00:25:01,180
is,

906
00:25:01,490 --> 00:25:03,049
does this work economically

907
00:25:03,049 --> 00:25:04,289
without an organic premium?

908
00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:07,230
Yeah,

909
00:25:07,150 --> 00:25:07,950
well,

910
00:25:08,170 --> 00:25:09,950
to answer your first question, I

911
00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:10,750
think

912
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:14,130
so many people around

913
00:25:14,410 --> 00:25:15,210
me,

914
00:25:15,940 --> 00:25:17,480
one, they constantly think that

915
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,799
cover crops use moisture.

916
00:25:19,940 --> 00:25:20,740
So,

917
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:24,450
like when I said earlier that a

918
00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:25,589
lot of people plant wheat,

919
00:25:26,420 --> 00:25:27,259
behind their cotton.

920
00:25:27,579 --> 00:25:28,859
A lot of times that's only on

921
00:25:28,859 --> 00:25:29,740
irrigated land.

922
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:31,400
I mean, a lot of people don't do

923
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,279
it on their dry land because

924
00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:33,380
they had this idea that,

925
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:35,410
well, that cover crop's going to

926
00:25:35,410 --> 00:25:37,750
use whatever moisture we get in

927
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:38,549
the winter.

928
00:25:38,430 --> 00:25:39,230
And

929
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:40,440
I go back to that chart.

930
00:25:40,579 --> 00:25:41,740
We don't get much moisture in

931
00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:42,539
the winter anyway.

932
00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:44,240
So, you know, I'm like, I really

933
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,700
don't think that two tents we

934
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:47,779
got is really making or breaking

935
00:25:47,779 --> 00:25:48,579
the operation.

936
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:50,099
From a moisture,

937
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:53,059
and I personally believe the

938
00:25:53,059 --> 00:25:54,980
benefits outweigh the little bit

939
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:56,380
of moisture that your cover crop

940
00:25:56,380 --> 00:25:57,180
might have used.

941
00:25:57,299 --> 00:25:58,500
So there's that.

942
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,599
Secondly, most farmers in our

943
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:02,399
area,

944
00:26:02,539 --> 00:26:05,660
they want to use a herbicide to

945
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:07,380
desiccate their plant, their

946
00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:09,019
cotton plant, a harvest aid.

947
00:26:09,549 --> 00:26:10,589
So that they can get in there,

948
00:26:10,670 --> 00:26:11,470
harvest it quicker,

949
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:12,789
get it out quicker.

950
00:26:13,589 --> 00:26:14,389
Um,

951
00:26:14,369 --> 00:26:17,069
and, you know, I, I just, most

952
00:26:17,069 --> 00:26:18,690
of them use paraquat and some

953
00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:19,849
other chemicals that I don't

954
00:26:19,849 --> 00:26:21,230
have any desire to be around.

955
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:22,549
And so I just,

956
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:24,589
you know, but that's a, that's a

957
00:26:24,589 --> 00:26:26,490
mind shift. That's a mind, you

958
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:28,470
know, it's, it's so programmed,

959
00:26:29,069 --> 00:26:30,890
um, that you got to get in

960
00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:31,750
there. It's, you know, when our

961
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:33,630
average freeze date is October

962
00:26:33,630 --> 00:26:35,390
the 31st in our context.

963
00:26:35,890 --> 00:26:37,009
That's going to desiccate the

964
00:26:37,009 --> 00:26:38,269
plant. I don't know why you're

965
00:26:38,269 --> 00:26:40,349
in a hurry to and so they can't

966
00:26:40,349 --> 00:26:41,609
get their, their multi species

967
00:26:41,609 --> 00:26:42,490
in there. So they're really

968
00:26:42,490 --> 00:26:43,289
limited on what they're

969
00:26:43,289 --> 00:26:44,710
planning. And so they're not

970
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:45,650
bringing in diversity.

971
00:26:46,089 --> 00:26:47,730
And so, yeah, a lot of it's

972
00:26:47,730 --> 00:26:49,750
just, you know, as, as a lot of

973
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:51,410
people say in this regenerative

974
00:26:51,410 --> 00:26:52,910
journey, the biggest challenges

975
00:26:52,910 --> 00:26:54,490
is up here is just trying to.

976
00:26:55,019 --> 00:26:56,180
see things differently.

977
00:26:57,980 --> 00:26:58,779
Yeah,

978
00:26:58,579 --> 00:27:01,359
the organic premium, that

979
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,839
does help, but I

980
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,160
would do it no matter what.

981
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,720
I mean, because I believe in it.

982
00:27:10,089 --> 00:27:12,650
You know, I said, you have to

983
00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:13,670
look at things differently.

984
00:27:13,829 --> 00:27:15,990
I don't pay a big seed cost bill

985
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:17,730
on my cotton seed.

986
00:27:18,369 --> 00:27:19,730
I'm able to catch them and see,

987
00:27:19,890 --> 00:27:21,130
but I personally believe there's

988
00:27:21,130 --> 00:27:22,109
benefits to that.

989
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,079
Yeah, my labor is a little

990
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:26,879
higher,

991
00:27:27,339 --> 00:27:29,579
but John, I'd rather pay a

992
00:27:29,579 --> 00:27:31,099
person that wants to work than

993
00:27:31,509 --> 00:27:34,849
Bayer CropScience or BASF

994
00:27:34,849 --> 00:27:37,009
or John Deere. I really believe

995
00:27:37,009 --> 00:27:37,809
that.

996
00:27:37,819 --> 00:27:38,839
We talk about these rural

997
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:40,319
communities and there's no jobs.

998
00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:41,480
Well, yeah, because all we're

999
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,700
doing is running spray rigs.

1000
00:27:43,059 --> 00:27:44,960
And I'd rather hire...

1001
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:47,089
I hear people all the time say

1002
00:27:47,089 --> 00:27:47,889
that,

1003
00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:50,269
we want to cut our labor costs.

1004
00:27:50,369 --> 00:27:51,529
Well, why do we want to cut

1005
00:27:51,529 --> 00:27:53,269
somebody that wants a job?

1006
00:27:53,529 --> 00:27:54,890
I mean, and is willing to work.

1007
00:27:54,970 --> 00:27:55,769
Now,

1008
00:27:55,509 --> 00:27:56,670
I know there's challenges to

1009
00:27:56,670 --> 00:27:57,549
that, but I've always,

1010
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:59,670
I've always read, I'd rather pay

1011
00:27:59,670 --> 00:28:02,410
somebody that wants to work and,

1012
00:28:02,410 --> 00:28:03,890
and, and be a good, pay them a

1013
00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:04,890
good wage. Then,

1014
00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:08,269
then my money going to some, you

1015
00:28:08,269 --> 00:28:09,069
know,

1016
00:28:08,769 --> 00:28:10,589
agri -tech company that doesn't

1017
00:28:10,589 --> 00:28:11,389
care.

1018
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:13,599
So, you know, there's different

1019
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:15,099
challenges, you know, being an

1020
00:28:15,099 --> 00:28:16,000
organics, not a,

1021
00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:18,890
It's not the answer.

1022
00:28:19,049 --> 00:28:19,970
I mean, it presents other

1023
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:21,670
challenges that, you know, that,

1024
00:28:22,099 --> 00:28:23,839
you know, so many people, but,

1025
00:28:24,099 --> 00:28:24,940
you know, that's another aha

1026
00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:25,759
moment.

1027
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:28,119
I had John is one day before I

1028
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,500
was kind of here back in that

1029
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:31,299
2013,

1030
00:28:31,539 --> 00:28:32,339
14 timeframe.

1031
00:28:32,339 --> 00:28:33,559
I just woke up one day and I

1032
00:28:33,559 --> 00:28:34,819
realized, man, that spray rigs,

1033
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:35,980
the most important machine I

1034
00:28:35,980 --> 00:28:37,140
got. And I had a,

1035
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:39,079
I had a problem with that.

1036
00:28:39,539 --> 00:28:40,339
I just,

1037
00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:42,680
I was like, I don't think this

1038
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,000
is how this was supposed to be

1039
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,940
done. Like.

1040
00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:46,390
How did we get here?

1041
00:28:46,569 --> 00:28:47,930
And almost like, how are we so

1042
00:28:47,930 --> 00:28:49,750
immune to it? And I said, that's

1043
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:50,720
my purpose. conviction.

1044
00:28:50,859 --> 00:28:51,900
I don't condemn it.

1045
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:54,230
I've got neighbors all around

1046
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:55,190
me. That's how they farm.

1047
00:28:55,450 --> 00:28:56,970
And I want the best for them.

1048
00:28:57,130 --> 00:29:00,089
But I just have a different view

1049
00:29:00,089 --> 00:29:00,889
of all that.

1050
00:29:01,109 --> 00:29:01,909
Well,

1051
00:29:03,349 --> 00:29:05,170
I appreciate the, I

1052
00:29:06,410 --> 00:29:07,750
don't know if originality of

1053
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:09,049
thought is quite the right

1054
00:29:09,049 --> 00:29:10,769
phrase, but perhaps independence

1055
00:29:10,769 --> 00:29:11,910
of thought, because it's that

1056
00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:13,269
independence of thought that

1057
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:16,349
most of the people who now have

1058
00:29:16,349 --> 00:29:17,450
a decade or two or more

1059
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:18,910
experience on this pathway have

1060
00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:20,529
needed to exercise at multiple

1061
00:29:20,529 --> 00:29:21,910
points to get to the point where

1062
00:29:21,910 --> 00:29:22,710
they are.

1063
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:23,869
So I certainly value that.

1064
00:29:24,910 --> 00:29:25,710
You mentioned,

1065
00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:27,329
when we think about independence

1066
00:29:27,329 --> 00:29:29,609
of thought, you made a comment

1067
00:29:29,609 --> 00:29:30,890
in passing earlier when we,

1068
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:32,119
it might have been when we were

1069
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,180
speaking about irrigated cotton,

1070
00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:34,819
maybe even dry land cotton, you

1071
00:29:35,509 --> 00:29:38,019
expressed the question that you

1072
00:29:38,019 --> 00:29:39,140
wonder whether that's even what

1073
00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:40,059
we should be doing in this

1074
00:29:40,059 --> 00:29:41,079
environment, considering that

1075
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:42,160
this used to be a short grass

1076
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:42,960
prairie.

1077
00:29:43,140 --> 00:29:45,079
I'm really interested in your

1078
00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:48,559
livestock operation and what

1079
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:49,759
you were doing there.

1080
00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:52,759
What's the pathway that you're

1081
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:54,400
on for regenerating shortgrass

1082
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,200
prairies?

1083
00:29:56,339 --> 00:29:57,139
Yeah,

1084
00:29:57,109 --> 00:29:57,909
well,

1085
00:29:57,789 --> 00:29:59,490
that's a journey in itself.

1086
00:30:01,730 --> 00:30:04,529
I'm sure many of your listeners

1087
00:30:04,529 --> 00:30:05,970
have had the same experience.

1088
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,079
Years ago, I had a farm that has

1089
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:11,859
a pivot, a center pivot

1090
00:30:11,859 --> 00:30:12,680
irrigation,

1091
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:14,000
so it has a circle.

1092
00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:17,220
And I planted a cover crop on

1093
00:30:17,220 --> 00:30:19,279
the corners that's not

1094
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:20,079
irrigated.

1095
00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:22,329
And I just kind of,

1096
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:25,109
I quit doing anything to them.

1097
00:30:25,410 --> 00:30:26,670
And the succession,

1098
00:30:27,009 --> 00:30:28,230
three years later, it's back in

1099
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:29,670
the grass without me doing a

1100
00:30:29,670 --> 00:30:30,470
thing.

1101
00:30:30,390 --> 00:30:32,009
Now, we grazed it one year.

1102
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,440
But

1103
00:30:33,289 --> 00:30:36,089
if you've ever experienced land

1104
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:37,399
that

1105
00:30:38,509 --> 00:30:40,170
Maybe, you know, you didn't do

1106
00:30:40,170 --> 00:30:42,009
much too. And within

1107
00:30:42,509 --> 00:30:43,950
three years, it goes back to

1108
00:30:43,950 --> 00:30:45,150
grass. You sit there and do

1109
00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:45,950
nothing.

1110
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:47,890
I mean, that's, that's what God

1111
00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:49,529
created. I mean, there, there's

1112
00:30:49,529 --> 00:30:50,950
a reason why it does that is,

1113
00:30:51,069 --> 00:30:52,829
you know, like with very little

1114
00:30:52,829 --> 00:30:54,289
effort. I mean, I'm talking like

1115
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:55,089
zero effort.

1116
00:30:55,789 --> 00:30:58,069
Um, and, and I said, read it now

1117
00:30:58,069 --> 00:30:59,569
on savory's book on holistic

1118
00:30:59,569 --> 00:31:01,430
management really.

1119
00:31:02,390 --> 00:31:03,490
And I'm not saying I'm,

1120
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:05,380
I'm an expert on all that I'm

1121
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:06,960
learning, you know, um,

1122
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,059
it really just began to,

1123
00:31:09,549 --> 00:31:10,349
uh,

1124
00:31:10,539 --> 00:31:12,700
to convict me, I guess about,

1125
00:31:13,910 --> 00:31:14,710
you know,

1126
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:16,630
what was this place like before?

1127
00:31:17,130 --> 00:31:17,930
And, and I,

1128
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,539
before we, we got on, I found a,

1129
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,539
there was a explorer that came

1130
00:31:23,539 --> 00:31:24,339
out here,

1131
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:25,640
you know, in the early,

1132
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:26,759
you know, before there were

1133
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:27,559
settlements.

1134
00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:29,640
He was with the Calgary and,

1135
00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:31,279
and he said, I'm going to get

1136
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:32,559
his quote wrong, but he said

1137
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:33,480
something to the fact that there

1138
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,039
was no shrubs, there was no

1139
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:36,500
trees, and there was no water.

1140
00:31:37,099 --> 00:31:38,599
And he said, even the Indians

1141
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,180
avoid this area.

1142
00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:41,740
And he's talking about the area

1143
00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:42,539
that I farm in.

1144
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:43,799
This is the Llano Estacado,

1145
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:44,839
whatever you want to call it.

1146
00:31:44,859 --> 00:31:45,659
And so,

1147
00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:47,000
you sit there and you think,

1148
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:48,980
that's what it was, and we're

1149
00:31:48,980 --> 00:31:50,460
trying to force it to be

1150
00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:51,799
something that it wasn't.

1151
00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:54,880
And so that began me on this

1152
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:55,680
question of like,

1153
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,099
is really what I'm doing at the

1154
00:31:58,099 --> 00:31:59,920
end of the day is I'm trying to,

1155
00:32:00,059 --> 00:32:01,740
what's the saying, I'm trying to

1156
00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:04,019
force a square peg into a round

1157
00:32:04,019 --> 00:32:04,819
hole.

1158
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:07,039
Is that really what we're trying

1159
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:08,140
to do at the end of the day?

1160
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,059
We're trying to make this short

1161
00:32:10,059 --> 00:32:13,180
prairie grass system out here

1162
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:16,519
be agricultural production

1163
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:17,319
land.

1164
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,759
And I know that that's radical.

1165
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:21,299
I know that there's landowners.

1166
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,680
I know that land values,

1167
00:32:23,079 --> 00:32:24,259
there's all these things that

1168
00:32:24,259 --> 00:32:26,920
affect that. And I get that.

1169
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,019
And I'm not saying that,

1170
00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:29,750
you know, I'm going to today.

1171
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:31,880
But what I started doing was,

1172
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400
I was offered a piece of land to

1173
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,170
rent that was in grass.

1174
00:32:36,930 --> 00:32:38,470
And it was a section of a land,

1175
00:32:38,529 --> 00:32:39,910
so 640 acres.

1176
00:32:41,299 --> 00:32:42,960
And the typical farmer out here

1177
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,259
would take that and destroy

1178
00:32:44,259 --> 00:32:45,519
every bit of the grass and put

1179
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:46,319
it into production,

1180
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:48,500
especially as an organic farmer.

1181
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:49,660
It goes right into organic

1182
00:32:49,660 --> 00:32:50,740
because it hadn't been farmed in

1183
00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:51,539
30 years.

1184
00:32:52,460 --> 00:32:54,420
And I because of the journey

1185
00:32:54,420 --> 00:32:55,900
that I've been on, I just really

1186
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:57,019
feel like that's what that

1187
00:32:57,019 --> 00:32:58,980
wasn't God's desire for that

1188
00:32:58,980 --> 00:33:01,180
land. And so I'm paying a cash

1189
00:33:01,180 --> 00:33:02,920
lease, but I kept it in grass.

1190
00:33:03,539 --> 00:33:05,000
And so what we did was,

1191
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:07,099
you know, I started buying

1192
00:33:07,789 --> 00:33:11,089
cows,

1193
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:12,349
you know, my own started

1194
00:33:12,349 --> 00:33:13,149
building my own herd.

1195
00:33:13,289 --> 00:33:14,690
They're not cheap right now, but

1196
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:15,509
I started building my own.

1197
00:33:15,789 --> 00:33:17,369
And I'm the breed that I'm using

1198
00:33:17,369 --> 00:33:18,569
is Bonsmora.

1199
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:20,049
You know,

1200
00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:22,329
I think you've talked about him

1201
00:33:22,329 --> 00:33:23,609
and the cattle that he

1202
00:33:23,609 --> 00:33:24,409
developed.

1203
00:33:25,150 --> 00:33:26,690
It just so happened I had a

1204
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:27,970
friend out here that had a herd

1205
00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:29,190
of them and he was willing to

1206
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:29,990
sell me some heifers.

1207
00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:31,869
And so we started, you know, we

1208
00:33:31,869 --> 00:33:33,789
bought those three years ago and

1209
00:33:33,789 --> 00:33:34,589
we started

1210
00:33:35,089 --> 00:33:36,150
holistically grazing.

1211
00:33:36,410 --> 00:33:37,630
And I'm trying to practice the

1212
00:33:37,630 --> 00:33:38,509
things that I've learned from

1213
00:33:38,509 --> 00:33:40,569
Alejandro, from Alan Williams,

1214
00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:43,170
from the list goes on of people

1215
00:33:43,170 --> 00:33:45,109
that are using animals and

1216
00:33:45,109 --> 00:33:46,710
livestock to restore the

1217
00:33:47,019 --> 00:33:49,059
ecosystem and the soil health.

1218
00:33:49,619 --> 00:33:52,180
And so we're doing that.

1219
00:33:52,339 --> 00:33:54,380
And I so believe in it.

1220
00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:56,869
But the problem is, it's hard to

1221
00:33:56,869 --> 00:33:57,669
go from

1222
00:33:57,630 --> 00:33:59,369
here to here overnight.

1223
00:33:59,369 --> 00:34:00,410
It takes time.

1224
00:34:01,150 --> 00:34:02,069
You know, livestock is

1225
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,859
you got infrastructure, you've

1226
00:34:03,859 --> 00:34:04,859
got, you know, when there's no

1227
00:34:04,859 --> 00:34:06,220
fencing out here, you've got,

1228
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:07,539
like I said, the price of those

1229
00:34:07,539 --> 00:34:08,820
cows are extremely high right

1230
00:34:08,820 --> 00:34:10,039
now. So I can only buy a few at

1231
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:11,119
a time. And I'm trying to keep

1232
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:12,300
all my heifers and trying to

1233
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:13,100
build the herd.

1234
00:34:14,659 --> 00:34:16,980
But I so believe in that, John,

1235
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:19,719
that I own a farm that was in,

1236
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:21,699
it was an organic dryland farm,

1237
00:34:21,739 --> 00:34:24,440
and I planted it back to grass.

1238
00:34:25,269 --> 00:34:27,190
And because that's, I believe

1239
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:28,690
that is the future

1240
00:34:29,610 --> 00:34:31,309
of where we're at in West Texas.

1241
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:33,869
And I know that that's radical,

1242
00:34:34,150 --> 00:34:35,440
and I'm not saying that I'm

1243
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,280
going to turn back all my

1244
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,519
farmland but that's the

1245
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:38,539
direction I'm going,

1246
00:34:39,369 --> 00:34:40,570
whether it's cattle or even

1247
00:34:40,570 --> 00:34:41,889
sheep I mean really probably

1248
00:34:41,889 --> 00:34:42,690
sheep

1249
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,780
fit our context better than

1250
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:46,440
cattle do just because of,

1251
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:47,960
you know, the context that we

1252
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:48,760
farm in.

1253
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,820
Let's talk a bit more about the

1254
00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:55,280
math behind why you believe that

1255
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,039
to be true and the logic

1256
00:34:57,039 --> 00:34:58,420
pathways that you are following.

1257
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,159
Obviously, we've already spoken

1258
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:02,440
about water depletion of

1259
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,780
aquifers and what that context

1260
00:35:04,780 --> 00:35:05,619
used to be like.

1261
00:35:06,340 --> 00:35:09,440
But obviously, you

1262
00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:11,570
have this vision of what is

1263
00:35:11,570 --> 00:35:12,370
possible.

1264
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:15,090
But in order for that to be

1265
00:35:15,090 --> 00:35:15,890
possible,

1266
00:35:16,070 --> 00:35:17,550
it also must be economical.

1267
00:35:17,769 --> 00:35:19,010
And obviously, you see a pathway

1268
00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:20,190
economically or you wouldn't be

1269
00:35:20,190 --> 00:35:21,090
going down this pathway.

1270
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:24,559
Yeah, well, I do because,

1271
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:26,579
okay, if I keep farming, I mean,

1272
00:35:26,619 --> 00:35:27,679
right now, I don't own that.

1273
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:28,860
Let's just take the cotton

1274
00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:29,660
harvest machine.

1275
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:30,679
I don't own one of those new

1276
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:31,480
balers,

1277
00:35:31,980 --> 00:35:33,039
but it's coming.

1278
00:35:34,380 --> 00:35:36,510
And so if I'm going to go buy a

1279
00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:37,989
million dollar or just say I

1280
00:35:37,989 --> 00:35:39,730
found a use of 700 ,000, you

1281
00:35:39,730 --> 00:35:40,769
know how many cows I could buy

1282
00:35:40,769 --> 00:35:41,869
for $700 ,000?

1283
00:35:43,219 --> 00:35:44,539
And I think that's what we

1284
00:35:44,539 --> 00:35:45,340
forget.

1285
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,670
We don't think about all the

1286
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:50,150
tractors and the equipment that

1287
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:51,409
it takes to grow that crop.

1288
00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:53,880
And when I look at the price of

1289
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,119
machinery and I look at

1290
00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:57,929
input costs, and I look at fuel

1291
00:35:57,929 --> 00:35:59,309
costs, and I look at all that,

1292
00:35:59,369 --> 00:36:00,170
and then I look at

1293
00:36:00,690 --> 00:36:01,490
animals,

1294
00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:03,550
and if I could get rid of all

1295
00:36:03,550 --> 00:36:04,350
that,

1296
00:36:04,750 --> 00:36:06,289
and then I just have the expense

1297
00:36:06,289 --> 00:36:07,469
of the animals and the, you

1298
00:36:07,469 --> 00:36:08,269
know, yes.

1299
00:36:08,289 --> 00:36:09,170
On one side of the ledger, you

1300
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:10,550
have an asset that depreciates,

1301
00:36:10,570 --> 00:36:11,429
on the other side, you have an

1302
00:36:11,429 --> 00:36:12,469
asset that appreciates.

1303
00:36:12,989 --> 00:36:13,789
Absolutely,

1304
00:36:13,710 --> 00:36:14,769
John, and that's the thing,

1305
00:36:14,869 --> 00:36:16,610
like, and that's why I look at

1306
00:36:16,610 --> 00:36:17,650
all that, and I just,

1307
00:36:17,989 --> 00:36:18,789
you know,

1308
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:20,869
we got farmers in debt, we got,

1309
00:36:21,070 --> 00:36:21,870
you know, the government's

1310
00:36:21,849 --> 00:36:23,289
having to send out payments to

1311
00:36:23,699 --> 00:36:26,039
keep farmers surviving right

1312
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:26,840
now,

1313
00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:28,659
And then when I look at, well,

1314
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:29,860
I'm really only surviving off

1315
00:36:29,860 --> 00:36:30,980
crime. insurance and government

1316
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:31,780
payments.

1317
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:33,880
Are you really being profitable?

1318
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:35,840
That's also a vulnerable

1319
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:36,679
position to be in.

1320
00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:38,670
Yeah, it is because you're at

1321
00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:40,489
the mercy of an administration

1322
00:36:40,489 --> 00:36:43,019
or, uh, who knows what.

1323
00:36:43,059 --> 00:36:43,880
And so that's where,

1324
00:36:44,619 --> 00:36:45,579
you know, like I said, I'm not

1325
00:36:45,579 --> 00:36:47,699
saying I'm there today, but

1326
00:36:47,699 --> 00:36:50,320
that's the goal because to me,

1327
00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:51,490
Like I said,

1328
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:54,329
the livestock work if it's

1329
00:36:54,329 --> 00:36:55,130
managed right.

1330
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:56,150
Now,

1331
00:36:55,989 --> 00:36:57,329
what I see so many times out

1332
00:36:57,329 --> 00:36:59,260
here is they go out and they get

1333
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:02,159
way too many animals for our dry

1334
00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:02,960
context.

1335
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:04,679
And you can't do that.

1336
00:37:04,820 --> 00:37:05,620
And then that's the thing.

1337
00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:07,320
It takes, you know,

1338
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,139
it

1339
00:37:09,449 --> 00:37:10,769
takes management.

1340
00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:11,949
And I think a lot of people

1341
00:37:11,949 --> 00:37:14,010
don't understand if you want to

1342
00:37:14,010 --> 00:37:15,550
follow the Alan Sangre ideas or

1343
00:37:15,550 --> 00:37:16,670
just some of these techniques

1344
00:37:16,670 --> 00:37:17,470
for that.

1345
00:37:17,539 --> 00:37:18,800
you know, understanding, you

1346
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,179
know, Alejandro, for me, would

1347
00:37:20,179 --> 00:37:21,699
be the greatest example, because

1348
00:37:21,699 --> 00:37:22,599
he's doing it in the same

1349
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:24,159
context, if not worse.

1350
00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:26,800
But most people don't want to do

1351
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:27,600
that.

1352
00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:28,579
They just want to turn them out.

1353
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:29,800
And the next thing you know, we

1354
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:30,679
go through another drought,

1355
00:37:30,780 --> 00:37:31,639
there's nothing left.

1356
00:37:31,659 --> 00:37:33,079
I tried that livestock deal at

1357
00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:33,880
work, you know,

1358
00:37:34,019 --> 00:37:35,360
and, and like I said, I'm not

1359
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,160
saying I've,

1360
00:37:36,489 --> 00:37:39,150
I'm where I want to be.

1361
00:37:39,449 --> 00:37:40,909
But to me, it just makes more

1362
00:37:40,909 --> 00:37:43,070
sense in the context that I'm

1363
00:37:43,070 --> 00:37:44,030
farming, because I feel like

1364
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:45,940
If we keep going down this road

1365
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:48,239
of trying to grow crops in a dry

1366
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,039
climate,

1367
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:50,969
and like I said, the equipment

1368
00:37:50,969 --> 00:37:51,769
expense,

1369
00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:54,110
the economics don't make sense

1370
00:37:54,110 --> 00:37:55,949
to me. We're also on a pathway

1371
00:37:55,949 --> 00:37:56,750
that

1372
00:37:56,909 --> 00:37:58,409
we want to avoid.

1373
00:37:59,219 --> 00:38:00,500
So many of us want to avoid the

1374
00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:01,760
conversation, but in many of

1375
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:02,560
these regions, we're in a

1376
00:38:02,539 --> 00:38:03,940
pathway where we are going to

1377
00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:04,740
run out of water.

1378
00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:06,150
Oh, yeah.

1379
00:38:06,510 --> 00:38:07,650
And I think it's sooner than

1380
00:38:07,650 --> 00:38:08,450
later,

1381
00:38:08,570 --> 00:38:09,789
especially for this area.

1382
00:38:10,050 --> 00:38:10,850
I mean,

1383
00:38:10,739 --> 00:38:11,880
where I farm, we're on the very

1384
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,159
end of the aquifer,

1385
00:38:14,909 --> 00:38:15,889
and it

1386
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:17,920
You know, I've even seen in the

1387
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,179
short, you know, of course, I've

1388
00:38:19,179 --> 00:38:21,000
been farming for 15, 16 years, a

1389
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,059
lot of the land that I had that

1390
00:38:22,059 --> 00:38:23,219
is irrigated is

1391
00:38:23,539 --> 00:38:25,019
not what it was two, three years

1392
00:38:25,019 --> 00:38:25,820
ago.

1393
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:27,269
I mean, it is drastically

1394
00:38:27,269 --> 00:38:28,070
declining.

1395
00:38:29,099 --> 00:38:30,960
And but see, but but then that's

1396
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:31,760
where you,

1397
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:33,160
you know, a lot of people don't

1398
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:33,980
want to talk about, well, that

1399
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:35,380
affects land values that

1400
00:38:35,380 --> 00:38:36,180
affects, you

1401
00:38:36,420 --> 00:38:38,900
know, and so these are I feel

1402
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:40,119
like there's a lot of hard

1403
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:41,840
conversations and a lot of hard

1404
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:42,760
decisions that

1405
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:44,420
that are coming at us that

1406
00:38:44,420 --> 00:38:45,579
nobody really wants to talk

1407
00:38:45,579 --> 00:38:47,199
about or even think about.

1408
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,300
We just want to keep

1409
00:38:48,699 --> 00:38:49,500
going.

1410
00:38:49,619 --> 00:38:50,420
And,

1411
00:38:50,949 --> 00:38:51,750
you know, And like I said, when

1412
00:38:51,449 --> 00:38:53,110
I look at the last, you know,

1413
00:38:53,809 --> 00:38:56,480
four years and I look at if it

1414
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,920
wasn't for program payments from

1415
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:59,820
our government,

1416
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,760
if it wasn't for crop insurance,

1417
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,159
which is highly subsidized by

1418
00:39:03,159 --> 00:39:03,960
our government,

1419
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:06,070
we'd all be out of business out

1420
00:39:06,070 --> 00:39:07,510
here. And so to me, that's not

1421
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:08,310
sustainable.

1422
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:10,500
And and that's why I look at

1423
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:13,090
grass and I look at this system

1424
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:13,890
and I look at,

1425
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:15,800
well, that works, you know,

1426
00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:16,620
like,

1427
00:39:16,380 --> 00:39:18,139
you know, if it's managed right,

1428
00:39:18,219 --> 00:39:19,960
if it's managed right and it's

1429
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,760
done right.

1430
00:39:21,269 --> 00:39:23,489
And, you know, and then you can

1431
00:39:23,489 --> 00:39:24,750
use the little bit of irrigation

1432
00:39:24,750 --> 00:39:27,409
you have to grow forage if you

1433
00:39:27,409 --> 00:39:28,210
need to.

1434
00:39:28,289 --> 00:39:29,409
It doesn't take much water to

1435
00:39:29,409 --> 00:39:30,210
grow forage,

1436
00:39:30,530 --> 00:39:31,969
you know. I mean, you can grow,

1437
00:39:32,429 --> 00:39:34,070
say you wanted to, you know,

1438
00:39:34,110 --> 00:39:37,170
diversify and, you know, maybe

1439
00:39:37,170 --> 00:39:39,349
have your animals on,

1440
00:39:39,769 --> 00:39:40,570
you know,

1441
00:39:40,469 --> 00:39:41,929
perennial grass in the summer

1442
00:39:41,929 --> 00:39:44,010
and then use that irrigated land

1443
00:39:44,010 --> 00:39:45,750
to grow to have something to

1444
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:46,550
graze in the winter.

1445
00:39:46,969 --> 00:39:48,570
you know, with very little, if

1446
00:39:48,570 --> 00:39:49,590
it's done right, like I said,

1447
00:39:49,809 --> 00:39:51,170
it's,

1448
00:39:51,809 --> 00:39:53,050
but you

1449
00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:54,940
got landowners that want,

1450
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:56,539
they're used to certain kind of

1451
00:39:56,539 --> 00:39:57,340
income.

1452
00:39:57,059 --> 00:39:58,500
You've got, like I said, you,

1453
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,440
and then John,

1454
00:40:00,809 --> 00:40:01,730
I was talking to a guy this

1455
00:40:01,730 --> 00:40:02,530
morning about this,

1456
00:40:02,940 --> 00:40:04,260
you know, the government, you

1457
00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:05,179
probably know this, they just

1458
00:40:05,179 --> 00:40:06,059
came out with these bridge

1459
00:40:06,059 --> 00:40:08,000
payments and we're thankful for

1460
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:08,800
them.

1461
00:40:08,179 --> 00:40:09,599
I'm not, I'm not denying this.

1462
00:40:09,739 --> 00:40:10,719
The last three years have been

1463
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:11,519
rough,

1464
00:40:11,570 --> 00:40:13,429
but when you look at those

1465
00:40:13,429 --> 00:40:16,269
bridge payments and Cotton's got

1466
00:40:16,269 --> 00:40:17,900
one of the highest payments,

1467
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:19,680
well,

1468
00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:21,940
you're incentivizing guys to

1469
00:40:21,940 --> 00:40:22,740
just keep playing.

1470
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:24,000
Grow more cotton.

1471
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:24,760
Grow more cotton.

1472
00:40:25,420 --> 00:40:28,079
And then we're like, well, we

1473
00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:29,460
got to increase demand.

1474
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:30,920
Well, we just incentivize to

1475
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,760
grow more of it.

1476
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:33,679
So I don't know.

1477
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,519
It just seems like we're just on

1478
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:37,460
this road of chasing our tail.

1479
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,059
And like I said, nobody wants to

1480
00:40:40,059 --> 00:40:40,880
have these conversations.

1481
00:40:41,139 --> 00:40:43,039
Nobody wants to come to the

1482
00:40:43,039 --> 00:40:44,320
realization that maybe this

1483
00:40:45,230 --> 00:40:46,190
You know, something's got to

1484
00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:46,990
change.

1485
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:47,830
I mean,

1486
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:49,630
but I want to go back and talk a

1487
00:40:49,630 --> 00:40:51,090
bit more about the economics of

1488
00:40:51,090 --> 00:40:52,929
livestock and of sheep, perhaps,

1489
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:55,090
if that's an appropriate fit.

1490
00:40:55,329 --> 00:40:58,510
You spoke about just the

1491
00:40:58,510 --> 00:40:59,730
additional resilience.

1492
00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:01,269
You spoke about appreciating

1493
00:41:01,269 --> 00:41:02,630
assets versus depreciating

1494
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:03,769
assets. You spoke about the

1495
00:41:03,769 --> 00:41:05,050
difference in overhead costs.

1496
00:41:05,710 --> 00:41:06,730
But what does it when you look

1497
00:41:06,730 --> 00:41:07,530
at,

1498
00:41:07,289 --> 00:41:09,110
and there's also part of a part

1499
00:41:09,110 --> 00:41:10,489
of the land value conversation

1500
00:41:10,489 --> 00:41:11,630
is also a cash flow

1501
00:41:11,630 --> 00:41:13,030
conversation. What is the cash

1502
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:14,269
flow capability of a livestock

1503
00:41:14,269 --> 00:41:15,670
herd in your context versus

1504
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:16,470
cotton production?

1505
00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:19,710
Well, I think if if a guy can

1506
00:41:19,710 --> 00:41:22,769
sit down and and say

1507
00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:24,490
he,

1508
00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:26,260
you know,

1509
00:41:26,929 --> 00:41:28,690
like, for instance, like if I

1510
00:41:28,969 --> 00:41:31,409
way I look at it is is is,

1511
00:41:32,059 --> 00:41:32,860
you know,

1512
00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:35,070
how many head or sheep, how many

1513
00:41:35,070 --> 00:41:36,429
head of cattle or sheep do I

1514
00:41:36,429 --> 00:41:37,230
need

1515
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,820
to provide a living for my

1516
00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:40,620
family?

1517
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,080
where I'm not,

1518
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,519
I'm not going into debt to buy

1519
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:45,320
machinery.

1520
00:41:45,579 --> 00:41:46,500
I'm not having to

1521
00:41:47,260 --> 00:41:48,860
buy all these inputs.

1522
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,230
And I can get to the point

1523
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:52,030
where,

1524
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:53,380
you know, we have enough

1525
00:41:53,699 --> 00:41:55,079
head to

1526
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:57,239
generate enough income to

1527
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,039
provide for me.

1528
00:41:58,019 --> 00:41:58,940
And then if I have any

1529
00:41:58,940 --> 00:42:00,179
employees, and that's the way I

1530
00:42:00,179 --> 00:42:01,199
look at it. And so,

1531
00:42:01,739 --> 00:42:02,980
you know, for me, you know,

1532
00:42:03,550 --> 00:42:04,350
if it's cattle,

1533
00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:07,599
you know, if I had at the prices

1534
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,119
today, I've often said, well, if

1535
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:11,119
I had, you know, 200 to 300 head

1536
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:11,920
of cattle,

1537
00:42:12,340 --> 00:42:13,280
if it's sheep,

1538
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:14,840
you know, right now, those

1539
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:15,640
things are,

1540
00:42:15,909 --> 00:42:17,510
it's amazing the value that the

1541
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:18,310
sheep are bringing.

1542
00:42:18,909 --> 00:42:20,969
Like I said before, those are,

1543
00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:25,079
to me, you get your money

1544
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:26,980
returned faster on the sheep,

1545
00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:28,000
hands down.

1546
00:42:28,619 --> 00:42:30,059
Because, you know, they're twins

1547
00:42:30,059 --> 00:42:31,300
and triplets and,

1548
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:32,700
you know,

1549
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:33,360
you can have,

1550
00:42:33,769 --> 00:42:35,289
you just get, you get the return

1551
00:42:35,289 --> 00:42:36,369
on your investment a whole lot

1552
00:42:36,369 --> 00:42:37,170
faster.

1553
00:42:37,659 --> 00:42:39,239
But the infrastructure is a

1554
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:40,039
little harder.

1555
00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:41,300
They need a little bit better

1556
00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:42,100
fence.

1557
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:43,039
And so,

1558
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:44,579
I'm probably not giving you a

1559
00:42:44,579 --> 00:42:46,019
good direct answer, but that's

1560
00:42:46,019 --> 00:42:46,820
the way I look at it.

1561
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:47,660
Because like,

1562
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:48,780
I mean, right now, I'm like,

1563
00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:50,539
John, for my operation as an

1564
00:42:50,539 --> 00:42:52,320
organic cotton farmer that

1565
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:53,760
farms, like I said, around 4

1566
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:54,560
,000 acres,

1567
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,239
I've got seven tractors,

1568
00:42:57,159 --> 00:42:57,960
okay?

1569
00:42:58,190 --> 00:42:59,070
The maintenance on those

1570
00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:00,429
tractors, the insurance on those

1571
00:43:00,429 --> 00:43:01,889
tractors, and they're not all

1572
00:43:01,889 --> 00:43:02,989
new. I mean, they're all pretty

1573
00:43:02,989 --> 00:43:04,750
old. I'm talking like high hour

1574
00:43:04,750 --> 00:43:05,550
tractors.

1575
00:43:05,869 --> 00:43:06,889
And when I sit there and I think

1576
00:43:06,889 --> 00:43:07,690
about,

1577
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:09,110
you know,

1578
00:43:09,309 --> 00:43:11,239
if I sit there and like, I've

1579
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:12,539
got one that's got, you know, 12

1580
00:43:12,539 --> 00:43:13,539
,000 hours on it.

1581
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:14,700
And I'm sitting there thinking,

1582
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,199
well, I've got to go upgrade

1583
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:17,000
that tractor.

1584
00:43:17,610 --> 00:43:18,410
Well,

1585
00:43:18,210 --> 00:43:20,570
you're looking at $150 ,000,

1586
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:23,000
maybe at the low end,

1587
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:24,940
up to $300 ,000.

1588
00:43:25,380 --> 00:43:26,739
I mean, that's the stuff that I

1589
00:43:26,739 --> 00:43:27,760
started thinking, man, you could

1590
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,090
buy a lot of animals and don't

1591
00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:31,369
worry about all that, you know,

1592
00:43:31,389 --> 00:43:32,989
all that debt and machinery.

1593
00:43:33,449 --> 00:43:34,250
And like I said, I'm just

1594
00:43:34,110 --> 00:43:35,130
talking about the cotton harvest

1595
00:43:35,130 --> 00:43:35,930
machine.

1596
00:43:35,969 --> 00:43:37,210
That's one of those decisions

1597
00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:38,070
that I'm just like,

1598
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,579
man, it's coming.

1599
00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:41,260
I mean, I still run the old

1600
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:42,559
machines and we're fixing them

1601
00:43:42,559 --> 00:43:43,360
and,

1602
00:43:43,539 --> 00:43:44,340
you know, open that they just

1603
00:43:44,170 --> 00:43:45,070
keep rolling because they're

1604
00:43:45,070 --> 00:43:45,870
paid for.

1605
00:43:46,269 --> 00:43:47,869
But there's going to come a day

1606
00:43:47,869 --> 00:43:49,329
when they keep telling us, John,

1607
00:43:49,389 --> 00:43:50,190
you're not even going to carry

1608
00:43:50,190 --> 00:43:51,289
the parts for these things.

1609
00:43:51,949 --> 00:43:54,949
And so that's where I look at,

1610
00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:56,390
man,

1611
00:43:56,679 --> 00:43:58,440
yeah, I might be profitable, but

1612
00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:59,360
then you start looking at all

1613
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,079
the expense that you can just

1614
00:44:02,739 --> 00:44:04,599
be done with.

1615
00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:07,079
And like I said, I'm probably

1616
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:08,380
not giving you a good direct

1617
00:44:08,380 --> 00:44:09,420
answer, but that's the way I

1618
00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:11,769
look at it. John, is just not

1619
00:44:11,769 --> 00:44:13,130
having all these, like you said,

1620
00:44:13,230 --> 00:44:14,829
liabilities, have more assets.

1621
00:44:15,940 --> 00:44:18,159
But to break it down from a

1622
00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:19,059
dollars per acre,

1623
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,360
if you had sheep, I guess I

1624
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,420
could sit there and pencil it

1625
00:44:23,420 --> 00:44:25,539
out, but if you had 100 acres

1626
00:44:25,539 --> 00:44:26,860
and you could run so many head

1627
00:44:26,860 --> 00:44:28,980
of sheep, that

1628
00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:31,719
is a challenge because I think

1629
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:32,840
in our dry climate, you're going

1630
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,640
to have to run

1631
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:36,800
More acres per head just because

1632
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:37,600
of,

1633
00:44:37,539 --> 00:44:39,099
you know, lack of rainfall and,

1634
00:44:39,099 --> 00:44:40,969
you know, versus a place that

1635
00:44:40,969 --> 00:44:41,809
maybe, you know, like,

1636
00:44:42,389 --> 00:44:43,670
I think, I think if you go by

1637
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:46,659
the NRCS rules and what they

1638
00:44:46,659 --> 00:44:48,579
recommend for us is 1 head of

1639
00:44:48,579 --> 00:44:49,760
cow per 20 acres.

1640
00:44:50,539 --> 00:44:52,400
That's hard. That's that's that

1641
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,360
takes a lot of acres to run 300

1642
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,160
head of cattle.

1643
00:44:55,869 --> 00:44:56,730
Um, so.

1644
00:44:58,989 --> 00:45:00,530
1 of the aspects, though, that

1645
00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:05,230
I perceive as my perception is

1646
00:45:05,230 --> 00:45:06,550
often underappreciated.

1647
00:45:07,650 --> 00:45:10,949
is the value of building equity

1648
00:45:10,949 --> 00:45:12,210
and appreciating assets.

1649
00:45:14,030 --> 00:45:16,389
Years ago, I had Alvin Peachy,

1650
00:45:16,469 --> 00:45:17,329
he was an Amish farmer from

1651
00:45:17,329 --> 00:45:18,369
Pennsylvania, an Amish dairy

1652
00:45:18,369 --> 00:45:19,550
farmer from Pennsylvania here on

1653
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:20,350
the podcast.

1654
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:21,550
And

1655
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:24,480
Larry Tranel from Iowa State

1656
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:25,539
University was

1657
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:26,880
a dairy economist.

1658
00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:28,440
He spent

1659
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,579
I'm not exactly sure, 30 plus

1660
00:45:30,579 --> 00:45:32,420
years analyzing the economic and

1661
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:33,539
the financial performance of

1662
00:45:33,539 --> 00:45:34,340
hundreds,

1663
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:35,840
thousands of dairies all over

1664
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:36,640
the country.

1665
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:38,239
He was commissioned by Organic

1666
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:39,519
Valley to do a research of an,

1667
00:45:39,860 --> 00:45:41,000
or to evaluate a number of

1668
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,659
different organic and grass fed

1669
00:45:42,659 --> 00:45:43,460
operations.

1670
00:45:44,219 --> 00:45:47,489
And he said that Albans 80

1671
00:45:47,489 --> 00:45:49,190
cow, a hundred percent grass

1672
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:50,329
based dairy,

1673
00:45:51,019 --> 00:45:51,820
grass fed

1674
00:45:51,820 --> 00:45:54,260
dairy was the single most

1675
00:45:54,260 --> 00:45:56,400
profitable dairy farm that he

1676
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,059
had ever evaluated in his entire

1677
00:45:58,059 --> 00:45:58,860
career.

1678
00:45:59,090 --> 00:45:59,890
Wow.

1679
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:01,239
And it

1680
00:46:02,090 --> 00:46:04,230
was because of the magic of

1681
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:05,030
compounded reality.

1682
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:07,320
value in assets and equity in

1683
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,120
livestock.

1684
00:46:09,849 --> 00:46:12,719
You have to look at that and you

1685
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:13,699
have to pay attention to that

1686
00:46:13,699 --> 00:46:14,619
particular aspect.

1687
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,880
But Alvin is my age.

1688
00:46:17,940 --> 00:46:19,159
He's not 40 years old yet.

1689
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:20,889
And he's bought and paid for

1690
00:46:20,889 --> 00:46:22,670
three farms at this point in a

1691
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:24,409
region where farm ground costs

1692
00:46:24,409 --> 00:46:27,570
$40 ,000 an acre on dairy at

1693
00:46:27,849 --> 00:46:29,429
the exact same time.

1694
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:32,630
when dairies across the country

1695
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:34,030
are going out of business left

1696
00:46:34,030 --> 00:46:34,830
and right.

1697
00:46:35,210 --> 00:46:36,010
Yeah.

1698
00:46:36,179 --> 00:46:38,380
And I mean, there's there's a

1699
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:39,400
whole conversation that could be

1700
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:40,200
had around that.

1701
00:46:40,199 --> 00:46:42,110
But it's Alvin

1702
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,719
told me he had

1703
00:46:45,269 --> 00:46:46,869
kind of a similar realization

1704
00:46:46,869 --> 00:46:48,130
around corn production that

1705
00:46:48,130 --> 00:46:49,090
you've had around cotton.

1706
00:46:49,449 --> 00:46:50,769
He looked at all of his

1707
00:46:50,769 --> 00:46:52,030
equipment costs, all of his

1708
00:46:52,030 --> 00:46:53,289
machinery, the horses that he

1709
00:46:53,289 --> 00:46:55,349
was feeding to grow corn.

1710
00:46:55,610 --> 00:46:57,570
He said, I can't afford to grow

1711
00:46:57,570 --> 00:46:59,650
corn. And he sold all of his

1712
00:46:59,650 --> 00:47:00,809
corn production equipment and he

1713
00:47:00,809 --> 00:47:03,570
went to 100 % forages because of

1714
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:04,530
his overhead costs.

1715
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:06,150
Yeah.

1716
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:06,970
Yeah.

1717
00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:08,579
Well, I think, I think anybody

1718
00:47:08,579 --> 00:47:10,539
can, like I said, they'll just

1719
00:47:10,820 --> 00:47:12,679
look at it from that perspective

1720
00:47:12,679 --> 00:47:13,480
of,

1721
00:47:14,539 --> 00:47:15,440
you know, like I said,

1722
00:47:17,050 --> 00:47:18,570
I keep going back to the cotton

1723
00:47:18,570 --> 00:47:19,809
harvest machine today,

1724
00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:23,099
but I mean, I'm just...

1725
00:47:23,099 --> 00:47:23,900
The cotton harvest machine

1726
00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:25,179
struck a nerve for you, didn't

1727
00:47:25,179 --> 00:47:25,980
it?

1728
00:47:25,579 --> 00:47:28,559
It does, because I truly believe

1729
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,679
that John Deere created a

1730
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:32,460
product or a tool or whatever

1731
00:47:32,460 --> 00:47:33,579
you want to call it,

1732
00:47:34,130 --> 00:47:34,930
that

1733
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,429
a person where I farm cannot,

1734
00:47:39,260 --> 00:47:40,699
cannot just pay for it from

1735
00:47:40,699 --> 00:47:42,280
farming. I mean, there has to be

1736
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,080
some other,

1737
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,840
some other kind of income, you

1738
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:45,820
know, we've got a lot of oil and

1739
00:47:45,820 --> 00:47:46,760
gas in the area.

1740
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,940
And we got, you know, there's a,

1741
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:49,019
you know, they call it off the

1742
00:47:49,019 --> 00:47:49,820
farm income.

1743
00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:52,579
But, you know, I just those

1744
00:47:52,579 --> 00:47:53,659
those things you sit there and

1745
00:47:53,659 --> 00:47:54,760
look at it like, man, this is

1746
00:47:55,449 --> 00:47:56,710
this is a,

1747
00:47:57,659 --> 00:47:59,179
I don't know, even even land

1748
00:47:59,179 --> 00:48:00,590
values. I've had conversation

1749
00:48:00,590 --> 00:48:01,789
with a lot of farmers in our

1750
00:48:01,789 --> 00:48:02,590
area.

1751
00:48:02,289 --> 00:48:03,869
Land no longer pays for itself

1752
00:48:03,869 --> 00:48:05,389
because the value is so

1753
00:48:05,989 --> 00:48:06,789
out,

1754
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:08,239
you know, the value of the land

1755
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,039
has gotten so to a point that

1756
00:48:10,579 --> 00:48:11,699
if you're just taking,

1757
00:48:12,190 --> 00:48:13,570
you know, forever, if you could,

1758
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:14,550
you know,

1759
00:48:14,369 --> 00:48:16,309
whatever that 25 % that you're

1760
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:18,570
paying to, if it's a crop share,

1761
00:48:19,210 --> 00:48:20,110
you know, it would kind of pay

1762
00:48:20,110 --> 00:48:22,130
for the land over, you know, a

1763
00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:24,010
period of time, but the prices

1764
00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:25,769
of the land in our area are at a

1765
00:48:25,769 --> 00:48:26,650
point where now,

1766
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:28,550
you know, you know, just paying

1767
00:48:28,550 --> 00:48:29,809
for the land from growing cotton

1768
00:48:29,809 --> 00:48:30,610
is not

1769
00:48:31,170 --> 00:48:34,360
not there. And so I think

1770
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:35,559
that's true in many parts of the

1771
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:36,559
country, though, isn't it?

1772
00:48:36,599 --> 00:48:37,659
All across a wide range of

1773
00:48:37,659 --> 00:48:38,460
different crops.

1774
00:48:38,780 --> 00:48:39,760
Oh, yeah, I think so.

1775
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,720
I mean,

1776
00:48:40,929 --> 00:48:42,309
but I don't know.

1777
00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:43,809
I don't know. I just feel like

1778
00:48:43,809 --> 00:48:45,050
there's some hard decisions and

1779
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:46,050
hard things that we need to

1780
00:48:46,050 --> 00:48:47,610
realities that we need to come

1781
00:48:47,610 --> 00:48:48,410
to

1782
00:48:48,670 --> 00:48:49,829
and

1783
00:48:50,329 --> 00:48:52,369
across the whole, you know,

1784
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:54,150
agriculture.

1785
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:56,940
Yeah, those those are very

1786
00:48:56,940 --> 00:48:58,400
uncomfortable decisions, because

1787
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,380
when you think about

1788
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,699
I don't know if I would describe

1789
00:49:02,699 --> 00:49:04,519
it as foundational, but it is.

1790
00:49:04,639 --> 00:49:06,619
It is a very important block of

1791
00:49:06,619 --> 00:49:09,440
our national economy has been

1792
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,240
the

1793
00:49:10,409 --> 00:49:13,739
safe investment that hedge

1794
00:49:13,739 --> 00:49:14,960
funds and

1795
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:18,309
Investment funds have made safe

1796
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:20,269
investments in farmland because

1797
00:49:20,269 --> 00:49:22,230
farmland always appreciates.

1798
00:49:23,010 --> 00:49:25,010
Well, we might be approaching a

1799
00:49:25,010 --> 00:49:26,409
point in history where that's no

1800
00:49:26,409 --> 00:49:27,809
longer true, and it's been true

1801
00:49:27,809 --> 00:49:28,829
for the last, I'm not sure the

1802
00:49:28,829 --> 00:49:30,289
exact time period, but 40 or 50

1803
00:49:30,289 --> 00:49:31,489
years at least, maybe longer.

1804
00:49:32,349 --> 00:49:33,829
And that's quite an

1805
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:34,909
uncomfortable conversation

1806
00:49:34,909 --> 00:49:36,349
because it affects the entire

1807
00:49:36,349 --> 00:49:37,150
economy.

1808
00:49:37,989 --> 00:49:38,829
Oh, it absolutely does.

1809
00:49:38,989 --> 00:49:39,789
I

1810
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:40,810
don't know.

1811
00:49:41,289 --> 00:49:44,190
I had the opportunity to sit on

1812
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:44,990
a

1813
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,320
the farm credits board of

1814
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,120
directors.

1815
00:49:48,019 --> 00:49:49,199
And so we have these

1816
00:49:49,199 --> 00:49:50,239
conversations a lot.

1817
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:51,320
And, you know, of course, I get

1818
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,199
a different perspective.

1819
00:49:52,940 --> 00:49:54,219
I get a perspective from the

1820
00:49:54,219 --> 00:49:55,019
banking industry.

1821
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:56,349
how they look at things.

1822
00:49:56,510 --> 00:49:57,310
But,

1823
00:49:57,750 --> 00:49:58,550
you know,

1824
00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:00,100
to me,

1825
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:01,340
it can't,

1826
00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:03,699
how does it sustain itself?

1827
00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:04,980
I mean, like, let's just take

1828
00:50:04,980 --> 00:50:05,940
conventional cotton.

1829
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:08,429
Conventional cotton, Rydell, is

1830
00:50:08,429 --> 00:50:10,210
trading in the 60s.

1831
00:50:10,730 --> 00:50:11,809
It's 65 cents,

1832
00:50:12,110 --> 00:50:13,010
64 cents.

1833
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,039
John, that's what my granddad

1834
00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:16,440
sold it for in the 70s.

1835
00:50:16,699 --> 00:50:18,420
And the cost of production last

1836
00:50:18,420 --> 00:50:19,960
they checked was like 80 cents

1837
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,280
plus for conventional cotton.

1838
00:50:21,460 --> 00:50:23,260
Yes. And when I told you all go,

1839
00:50:23,780 --> 00:50:25,300
30 years ago on dryland cotton,

1840
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:26,280
they were making the same yield

1841
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,099
we're making today.

1842
00:50:27,780 --> 00:50:28,580
Right.

1843
00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:30,940
I mean, so the economics are not

1844
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:32,610
making sense.

1845
00:50:33,210 --> 00:50:34,010
And

1846
00:50:33,650 --> 00:50:35,010
and I've seen her constantly

1847
00:50:35,010 --> 00:50:36,230
thinking like something doesn't

1848
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:38,190
I mean, I said, but it wasn't

1849
00:50:38,190 --> 00:50:38,990
for the government.

1850
00:50:39,809 --> 00:50:41,449
And like I said, we're blessed

1851
00:50:41,449 --> 00:50:42,250
that we live in the United

1852
00:50:42,090 --> 00:50:42,890
States of America.

1853
00:50:42,849 --> 00:50:43,909
We're blessed that our

1854
00:50:43,909 --> 00:50:45,010
government does value

1855
00:50:45,010 --> 00:50:45,810
agriculture.

1856
00:50:46,409 --> 00:50:47,889
But at the same time, have we

1857
00:50:47,889 --> 00:50:49,849
created a system that

1858
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:53,160
is inflated,

1859
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,320
you know, I mean, that's a word

1860
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:56,639
I'm trying to think of, or where

1861
00:50:56,639 --> 00:50:58,599
it's not reality, because of the

1862
00:50:58,599 --> 00:50:59,699
support for sure,

1863
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:00,920
distorted. Yeah,

1864
00:51:01,369 --> 00:51:03,630
you know, and and that's where I

1865
00:51:03,630 --> 00:51:04,989
don't know. And that I said,

1866
00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:06,309
everybody's got to come to that

1867
00:51:06,460 --> 00:51:07,460
own personal decision.

1868
00:51:07,519 --> 00:51:08,320
But for me,

1869
00:51:08,789 --> 00:51:09,989
those are the questions that I'm

1870
00:51:09,989 --> 00:51:11,269
asking myself. And like I said,

1871
00:51:11,289 --> 00:51:12,190
as I continue down this

1872
00:51:12,190 --> 00:51:13,349
regenerative journey, and I

1873
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:14,670
continue studying and reading

1874
00:51:14,670 --> 00:51:16,630
and looking at our context, I'm

1875
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:17,430
like, man,

1876
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:18,469
where I farm,

1877
00:51:19,300 --> 00:51:20,699
to me,

1878
00:51:21,579 --> 00:51:22,900
It was a short prairie grass for

1879
00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:23,700
a reason.

1880
00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:25,829
It sustained buffalo for, you

1881
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:26,630
know,

1882
00:51:27,610 --> 00:51:28,449
however long.

1883
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:32,099
Yeah, you know, and if I can get

1884
00:51:32,099 --> 00:51:32,900
to that point,

1885
00:51:33,530 --> 00:51:35,570
that's the direction I'm trying

1886
00:51:35,570 --> 00:51:36,370
to get to.

1887
00:51:36,739 --> 00:51:37,639
You know, there's an interesting

1888
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:39,519
anecdote that I think ties back

1889
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:40,760
to your production of livestock

1890
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:41,900
and the conversation we've been

1891
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:43,320
having about economics.

1892
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:45,460
We've had part of the reason why

1893
00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:47,860
we have this this federal policy

1894
00:51:47,860 --> 00:51:49,599
distortion around agriculture is

1895
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:51,710
because we have

1896
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:54,849
a clearly defined and very

1897
00:51:54,849 --> 00:51:57,449
explicit cheap food policy that

1898
00:51:57,449 --> 00:51:59,769
has been the policy ever since

1899
00:51:59,769 --> 00:52:01,730
Franklin Roosevelt's green or

1900
00:52:01,730 --> 00:52:03,210
not the Green New Deal, but the

1901
00:52:03,210 --> 00:52:04,010
New Deal.

1902
00:52:04,610 --> 00:52:07,230
If you remember his his campaign

1903
00:52:07,230 --> 00:52:08,349
slogan, I think for his second

1904
00:52:08,349 --> 00:52:10,010
term was a chicken in every pot.

1905
00:52:11,090 --> 00:52:12,369
Why a chicken in every pot?

1906
00:52:12,730 --> 00:52:13,929
Because at that moment in

1907
00:52:13,929 --> 00:52:14,730
history,

1908
00:52:14,860 --> 00:52:16,139
chicken was the expensive meat.

1909
00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:18,869
because chicken required grain.

1910
00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:20,739
Beef was inexpensive.

1911
00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:22,019
It was a lot less expensive to

1912
00:52:22,019 --> 00:52:22,920
produce beef than it was to

1913
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,199
produce chicken because they

1914
00:52:24,199 --> 00:52:25,360
were just grazing and producing

1915
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:26,160
on rangeland.

1916
00:52:27,219 --> 00:52:28,019
And

1917
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:30,610
so there's this

1918
00:52:31,460 --> 00:52:34,219
political economic phrase

1919
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:36,539
or slogan that you're three

1920
00:52:36,539 --> 00:52:37,699
square meals away from a

1921
00:52:37,699 --> 00:52:38,500
revolution.

1922
00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:40,840
And so it is the interest in the

1923
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,119
interests of a government in

1924
00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:42,920
power

1925
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,320
to maintain abundant food and

1926
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:47,139
cheap food.

1927
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,679
And that has been the incentive.

1928
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,019
for the last 80 years,

1929
00:52:52,940 --> 00:52:54,760
and that has created distortion

1930
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,639
that was appropriate for a

1931
00:52:56,639 --> 00:52:57,539
period of time, but we're

1932
00:52:57,539 --> 00:52:58,820
approaching a point where the

1933
00:52:58,820 --> 00:53:00,579
degree of distortion is becoming

1934
00:53:00,579 --> 00:53:02,079
so extreme that it's obvious

1935
00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:03,300
it's going to fracture at some

1936
00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:04,100
point.

1937
00:53:04,380 --> 00:53:06,000
Yeah, I totally agree.

1938
00:53:06,889 --> 00:53:07,690
And,

1939
00:53:08,260 --> 00:53:09,480
you know, a lot of it's not

1940
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:10,760
growing, going to food.

1941
00:53:11,099 --> 00:53:13,000
I mean, I mean, yeah, I guess

1942
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,260
you could say, you know,

1943
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:15,640
feedlots,

1944
00:53:16,099 --> 00:53:17,860
cattle production, maybe, but I

1945
00:53:17,860 --> 00:53:19,059
mean, a lot of this is going

1946
00:53:19,059 --> 00:53:19,860
into

1947
00:53:20,889 --> 00:53:21,690
not food.

1948
00:53:21,809 --> 00:53:22,610
I mean,

1949
00:53:22,429 --> 00:53:23,869
you know, I grow a fiber.

1950
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:25,849
I believe in a natural fiber.

1951
00:53:26,090 --> 00:53:27,349
I grew, I do believe there's a

1952
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:28,909
spot for it. But you know, it's,

1953
00:53:29,050 --> 00:53:29,850
it's,

1954
00:53:30,539 --> 00:53:31,340
I don't know.

1955
00:53:32,570 --> 00:53:33,370
I don't know.

1956
00:53:33,110 --> 00:53:33,929
It's gonna be interesting to see

1957
00:53:33,929 --> 00:53:35,389
where it goes. And I think, you

1958
00:53:35,389 --> 00:53:36,190
know, I think people are

1959
00:53:36,110 --> 00:53:37,030
starting to get aware of it.

1960
00:53:37,070 --> 00:53:38,630
I do think, you know, a lot of

1961
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:39,430
people are starting to ask the

1962
00:53:39,429 --> 00:53:40,230
right questions.

1963
00:53:41,690 --> 00:53:43,389
You know, a lot of people,

1964
00:53:43,929 --> 00:53:45,300
you know, like yourself and Gabe

1965
00:53:45,300 --> 00:53:46,900
Brown, and a lot of people are

1966
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:49,059
bringing some things to the

1967
00:53:49,059 --> 00:53:51,219
forefront that need to be

1968
00:53:51,219 --> 00:53:52,019
discussed.

1969
00:53:54,019 --> 00:53:55,440
But yeah, it's

1970
00:53:56,550 --> 00:53:58,789
interesting times, John, in

1971
00:53:58,789 --> 00:54:00,349
agriculture. I see so many

1972
00:54:00,349 --> 00:54:01,250
farmers that are hurting,

1973
00:54:01,750 --> 00:54:03,690
and not just in my area,

1974
00:54:04,389 --> 00:54:05,909
all across the

1975
00:54:05,909 --> 00:54:08,090
country.

1976
00:54:10,809 --> 00:54:11,610
I

1977
00:54:11,869 --> 00:54:12,670
don't know.

1978
00:54:13,269 --> 00:54:14,510
I have a question for you on

1979
00:54:14,510 --> 00:54:15,630
that because I see the same

1980
00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:17,510
thing and we all, we have,

1981
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:19,920
we have sympathy for people who

1982
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,619
are in a difficult spot because

1983
00:54:21,619 --> 00:54:24,019
I've experienced those and I'm

1984
00:54:24,019 --> 00:54:25,039
sure many people have.

1985
00:54:26,590 --> 00:54:27,390
Um,

1986
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:29,440
but when, when you are in a

1987
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:30,860
difficult spot like that, what,

1988
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:32,260
what is the, what is the

1989
00:54:32,260 --> 00:54:33,360
appetite that

1990
00:54:34,699 --> 00:54:37,239
you are observing for thinking

1991
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:38,780
about perhaps doing things

1992
00:54:38,780 --> 00:54:39,580
differently?

1993
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:42,119
Is it greater or less because of

1994
00:54:42,119 --> 00:54:43,579
the difficult spot that people

1995
00:54:43,579 --> 00:54:44,480
find themselves in?

1996
00:54:45,869 --> 00:54:47,449
Yeah, for me, I have a greater.

1997
00:54:48,219 --> 00:54:50,820
desire to change and do things

1998
00:54:50,820 --> 00:54:52,099
differently. And I think that's

1999
00:54:52,099 --> 00:54:52,900
probably

2000
00:54:53,010 --> 00:54:54,929
why my journey has

2001
00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:56,760
been the way that it has,

2002
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,400
because I think I said this at

2003
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:59,679
our event in Lubbock.

2004
00:55:00,610 --> 00:55:01,489
I saw my dad.

2005
00:55:01,829 --> 00:55:03,150
My dad went broke in farming.

2006
00:55:03,570 --> 00:55:05,690
I saw that. I was in college.

2007
00:55:05,949 --> 00:55:07,530
I helped him set up his auction.

2008
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:11,440
And so when I got back into it,

2009
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:12,880
I already had this idea of, man,

2010
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:13,820
I got to figure out something

2011
00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:14,679
different because I don't want

2012
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:15,480
to be there.

2013
00:55:16,420 --> 00:55:17,480
And that's where I

2014
00:55:18,070 --> 00:55:19,809
You know, even even on the 1st,

2015
00:55:19,829 --> 00:55:20,809
couple of years there, I was

2016
00:55:20,809 --> 00:55:21,989
starting to try to read and

2017
00:55:21,989 --> 00:55:23,190
study and do some things

2018
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:23,990
differently.

2019
00:55:23,969 --> 00:55:25,050
But, um,

2020
00:55:25,699 --> 00:55:26,500
you know, when you've

2021
00:55:26,179 --> 00:55:27,940
experienced that, or you've gone

2022
00:55:27,940 --> 00:55:29,119
through difficult times, it

2023
00:55:29,309 --> 00:55:32,210
hopefully it, it gets you hungry

2024
00:55:32,210 --> 00:55:34,550
to change, you know, to do the

2025
00:55:34,550 --> 00:55:35,630
things a little different.

2026
00:55:35,869 --> 00:55:36,670
But I

2027
00:55:37,369 --> 00:55:39,010
say that and I see a lot of guys

2028
00:55:39,010 --> 00:55:40,119
in my area.

2029
00:55:40,469 --> 00:55:41,570
I can't speak for other areas,

2030
00:55:41,650 --> 00:55:42,650
but in my area, they're just,

2031
00:55:43,869 --> 00:55:44,670
they're not changing.

2032
00:55:44,690 --> 00:55:45,490
They're just,

2033
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:46,680
well, the government's going to

2034
00:55:46,659 --> 00:55:47,559
send us some more money.

2035
00:55:47,559 --> 00:55:48,980
And it's this attitude of,

2036
00:55:49,710 --> 00:55:51,309
you know, I don't know, they

2037
00:55:51,309 --> 00:55:52,510
keep doing the same thing.

2038
00:55:53,489 --> 00:55:54,570
You know, that's a definition of

2039
00:55:54,570 --> 00:55:55,370
insanity.

2040
00:55:55,150 --> 00:55:56,409
And so I'm like, I don't know.

2041
00:55:56,570 --> 00:55:57,370
It's,

2042
00:55:57,659 --> 00:56:01,139
it's, and I,

2043
00:56:01,139 --> 00:56:02,300
and I don't want to paint a

2044
00:56:02,300 --> 00:56:03,420
picture, John, either that,

2045
00:56:03,929 --> 00:56:04,909
you know, it's, it's been tough

2046
00:56:04,909 --> 00:56:05,710
for me too.

2047
00:56:05,530 --> 00:56:06,449
I mean, when you're, when you

2048
00:56:06,449 --> 00:56:07,750
start going against the grain

2049
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:08,550
and you're,

2050
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:09,679
you start trying to do things

2051
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:10,960
different. At times you take a

2052
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,500
risk. And I've taken some risks.

2053
00:56:12,860 --> 00:56:13,660
There's a lot of

2054
00:56:13,219 --> 00:56:14,019
experimentation.

2055
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:15,179
There's a lot of learning the

2056
00:56:15,179 --> 00:56:15,980
hard way.

2057
00:56:16,059 --> 00:56:16,860
It is the hard way.

2058
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:18,200
Absolutely.

2059
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:19,039
It is.

2060
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:20,320
You know, but and that's one of

2061
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:21,120
the things I,

2062
00:56:21,079 --> 00:56:21,920
you know, I tell people a lot of

2063
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,159
times, you know, Gabe's book,

2064
00:56:23,300 --> 00:56:25,019
Dirt to Soil, the reason why it

2065
00:56:25,019 --> 00:56:26,659
resonated with me was because he

2066
00:56:26,659 --> 00:56:27,719
tells the story of those,

2067
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:29,710
what, three crop failures that

2068
00:56:29,710 --> 00:56:30,510
he had.

2069
00:56:30,670 --> 00:56:32,010
He owed the bank a lot of money

2070
00:56:32,010 --> 00:56:33,190
and that really began his

2071
00:56:33,190 --> 00:56:34,510
journey of like, I've got to

2072
00:56:34,510 --> 00:56:36,010
come up with a different way of

2073
00:56:36,010 --> 00:56:37,650
doing this. And a lot of times

2074
00:56:37,650 --> 00:56:38,510
when you don't have the money,

2075
00:56:38,869 --> 00:56:39,670
you don't have a choice.

2076
00:56:39,650 --> 00:56:40,530
I can't do it.

2077
00:56:40,590 --> 00:56:41,390
I don't have the money.

2078
00:56:41,869 --> 00:56:43,489
And, uh, and I, I've experienced

2079
00:56:43,489 --> 00:56:44,289
that too.

2080
00:56:44,110 --> 00:56:45,730
I mean, 2019 was one of those

2081
00:56:45,730 --> 00:56:46,530
years where,

2082
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:47,800
uh,

2083
00:56:48,489 --> 00:56:49,969
I would say in my early journey

2084
00:56:49,969 --> 00:56:52,070
of regenerative agriculture, I

2085
00:56:52,070 --> 00:56:53,329
really bought into the no -till

2086
00:56:53,329 --> 00:56:54,409
movement and I was really

2087
00:56:54,409 --> 00:56:56,719
focusing on yield and, uh, and

2088
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:57,519
all this stuff.

2089
00:56:57,599 --> 00:56:59,579
And in 2019,

2090
00:57:00,059 --> 00:57:02,039
I had a really bad year.

2091
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:04,800
And kind of that's really

2092
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,519
probably when I changed into low

2093
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:07,320
input.

2094
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,019
What is my context?

2095
00:57:10,130 --> 00:57:10,930
You

2096
00:57:11,070 --> 00:57:11,870
know, farming.

2097
00:57:12,250 --> 00:57:14,469
And, you know, I think everybody

2098
00:57:14,469 --> 00:57:15,550
kind of has those moments

2099
00:57:15,550 --> 00:57:16,630
probably at times.

2100
00:57:20,010 --> 00:57:22,010
Well, may we all live the best

2101
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:23,750
version of living in interesting

2102
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:25,170
times and not the worst version.

2103
00:57:25,909 --> 00:57:26,710
Yeah.

2104
00:57:28,210 --> 00:57:29,010
Yeah.

2105
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:31,579
Wonderful. Well, Jeremy, I

2106
00:57:31,579 --> 00:57:32,460
really enjoyed this

2107
00:57:32,460 --> 00:57:33,800
conversation. Thank you for

2108
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:34,840
being willing to join.

2109
00:57:35,260 --> 00:57:36,500
to share your story and all the

2110
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:37,300
great things that you're working

2111
00:57:37,260 --> 00:57:38,060
on.

2112
00:57:38,510 --> 00:57:39,310
Well, thank you.

2113
00:57:39,130 --> 00:57:40,929
I appreciate the opportunity and

2114
00:57:40,929 --> 00:57:42,489
hopefully it encourages somebody

2115
00:57:42,489 --> 00:57:45,369
and at least somebody maybe see

2116
00:57:45,519 --> 00:57:46,360
things a little different.

2117
00:57:46,679 --> 00:57:47,480
And like

2118
00:57:47,869 --> 00:57:48,949
I said, we're all learning as we

2119
00:57:48,949 --> 00:57:50,250
go here and trying to figure it

2120
00:57:50,250 --> 00:57:51,050
out and

2121
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:53,099
trusting God's guidance and his

2122
00:57:53,099 --> 00:57:55,039
wisdom to help us to do it.

2123
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:57,120
Indeed.

2124
00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:58,550
Well, thank you.

2125
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:59,650
And for all of our listeners,

2126
00:58:00,110 --> 00:58:01,449
may you have a great growing

2127
00:58:01,449 --> 00:58:02,949
season. May you have abundant

2128
00:58:02,949 --> 00:58:04,130
rains. May they come at the

2129
00:58:04,130 --> 00:58:05,510
right time. May you capture all

2130
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:06,310
of them.

2131
00:58:06,210 --> 00:58:07,730
And let's talk again soon.