BONUS EPISODE : East Forest's Journey from Anxiety to Musical Healing

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry, Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
I am joined today with East Forrest. He's a trailblazer
and meta meditation and inner resilience. He offers guided meditations, retreats,
and a podcast ten Laws with East Forrest. He's collaborated
with institutions across social justice, mental health, science, music, and
creative feels, including Google, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, New Earth, and Ted.
His work has appeared on Bright Antenna, Domino, sixteen thirty
one Recordings, Aquillo Records, as well as Tender, Loving Empire
and Universal Decca. He's here to talk about his music
and his new feature length film, Music for Mushrooms. So
thanks for coming on.
Thank you man.
So if you would give us a little information on
how your music started, then once you started getting into it,
how it expanded to become what has become today with the.
East Force Project. You know, it started because I was
feeling a lot of anxiety and depression I have my
whole life. I was living in New York as in
my twenties. You know, things were falling apart. I think
when things fall apart, there's often some kind of doors
opening to or maybe it's clearing the rubble, or I
don't know, it burns the fields, however you want to
look at it.
Sure, I think we all can understand that.
I started making music for me to actually like journey
to and my interest was or had I had some
experiences with psilocybin mushrooms, magic mushrooms that were really emotionally
powerful for me, but I didn't understand them. I kind
of wanted to return to that place. It was really
a place of solace, place of peace. So I was
trying to write music that would help me go to
those places. And that's really was the initial impetus, was
like soothing my own you know pain internally very personal.
Yes, I get that, and lots of times that's the
kind of pain that it takes to really grow and
expand So you was in your early twenties, right, yeah, Yeah,
What was the path and how did it develop from there?
Well, it was really through the magic of serving other people,
because I had a friend that I had met who
got really into that music that I made the very
first record, and he started organizing like these meditative shamanic
circles for me to play music too, And that wasn't
something that I thought I was going to do. And
so by offering this to others and seeing the benefit
for them they were working through their own stuff, it
just kept propelling me to do more and more of
it because you just feel like, well, it's helping this
person or these other people. Therefore, if I were to stop,
I'm no longer helping them. But that's mutually beneficial of course,
because then the more I play it, the better I feel.
So absolutely right. Right, So you started out early in
your career with a more calming type of music that
really helped others. Did you do other style? Did it
evolve into other things? Because when you're helping others, you
never know what can happen from there.
That's a good question, like how did the evolution of
the music happen because of the service to others. A
lot of the music I was improvising and playing in
those spaces, like guiding people so so, and it very
much is purpose driven music in that way.
In that moment, it has a very specific use.
Yeah, and that gives a chance to breathe a little
bit as well.
By doing that for many, many years, it starts to
get its own language, like a musical language of how
you do that or why you do that, and so
in that way, I think it absolutely shaped the sound
and the instruments and the fact that it was like
long form or if I'm bringing in field recordings, because
that brought up particular quality, you know, and that just
became the language of the music I was making.
Yeah, nice. What was the instrumentation that you used starting
out compared to what you may be using now.
It's always been a lot of piano or keyboard based
as the primary you know, glue or instrument, a lot
of instruments. I was using a lot of electronic elements too,
because you know, you're by yourself, and that's one way
to make rhythm and beats. You can do it like
on a computer. But I also started using a lot
of percussion, shakers and I wanted to bring a diversity
of sounds, and I could play woodwinds a little bit,
so I brought in brought harmonicas in Mylottica's. I also
brought in non melodic instruments like Tibetan bowls or gongs.
Yeah, that's a great collection of instrumentation.
Part of that was wanting to just have a variety
of sound, and it was also seeing like what other
sounds can I play that are also going to be
conducive to an inner journey, to that sort of calming
of the nervous system.
Yeah, that sounds like great music. Did you use your
voice at all?
I started bringing more of my voice back into it.
I started singing more, but finding I like doing a
kind of like glossialalia, like singing without specific words. It's
sort of like toning or words that sound like another
language maybe, but more like vowels and so forth. And
that developed over the years because in the ceremonies I
didn't want to like, I don't.
Know if like if you say words they're very specific.
In a sense, like it has a meaning to people,
and the tones could have any meaning. It was just emotion,
and so that became more of something that I do
to this day. Now it's just second nature, but it
came from that space.
And that's a great place place to start because it
allows you to find your inner piece, it allows you
to evolve. And it sounds like you've been able to
accomplish that. Now that you're out there, people are hearing
your music, you're getting to meet people because you're doing
more live shows. What kind of reaction are you getting
and how is it affecting you knowing that you really
truly are helping a lot of people in their lives.
It's the personal stories you would hear afterwards, Like someone
might tell you that they had a relationship with their
father that was very difficult. You know, it's negative in
their mind as a story that they're carrying a lot
of pain in the experience that we would have together
with the music. They might have said, you know, I
had this vision of my father and eventually I got
to this place where I was able to say I
love you dad. It would say, I've never been able
to say that, So I would recognize that, like, wow, Okay,
that is your internal process, it's your world. I didn't
tell you anything. I'm not telling you what to say
to your dad, I don't even know what's going on.
I'm just serving and creating a kind of world that's
conducive for that person to be able to do their work.
That unlocked the kind of door.
As in anything that starts out with a great promise,
you started and you grew, You got to know people,
they got to know you. Did you find yourself in
a situation of where it started expanding because more people
were talking and seeing what you're doing to help people
and what your music is doing. How did that all
come together for you?
It did, And the first community that was making those
invitations was the yoga community back in like twenty fifteen.
I don't know if you.
Remember, Like in that time, there was this whole thing
kind of emerging, like yoga became a bigger thing. And
also there were these festivals like Wanderlust festivals where they
were emerging, big music concerts and yoga classes during the day.
Moby played and they had these big names. So I
got hired to play a lot of those festivals. And
I think the yoga world is recognizing something in the
music that was conducive to mental health and inner journey,
and they were the first ones to help me kind
of get out there and build an audience.
Yeah, that was such a great start for you. How
have you seen your audience change? This was twenty and fourteen,
twenty fifteen. Now we're ten years later. How have you
seen your audience change? And what do you expect to
see when you're out there now?
Well, I think part of it's a symptom of the
way the world is. You know, the world's gotting harder
and crazier, like the pandemic for instance, Like more and
more people are looking for their own authentic paths and
tools frankly to heal or to like get by like.
So music is a very accessible one, and I've noticed
more of an international audience, and I've also noticed more
of a diversity of both backgrounds but ages that are
into this. So a lot of non yogis, of course
just people and hearing the way people are using the
music or have been introduced to it in all sorts
of different ways, of course, from psychedelic therapy, which is
becoming much and much more mainstream in our cultural conversation.
But maybe it was in like a bodywork session, or
actually in like kids' art classes, or people using it
with the passing of a family member. I mean, really
powerful moments in people's lives. It seems to be helpful
to sort of amplify or help them walk through emotional spaces.
Yeah, that's just so good. When you record, do you
record with a purpose? Do you have a group of
songs that you can put together and create a body
of work that's solely for that purpose, or is it
putting together the songs and then you hope that people
like it.
I mean, you know, I could say it was a
part of a plan, but as part of half plan.
Half it's just unfolds. I would record in two ways.
One was in these medicine ceremonies plant medicine ceremonies where
I'm improvising. So that's a very unique situation because things
are just coming out and you're just recording what's happening,
and then some of that turns into records. Then I
also will make studio records that are more traditional in
the sense that you know, I can work on on
over months and other people can come and play on it,
and I like doing both. Those can be more intentional
because you might have a concept like it could be
anything like I want to work with strings a lot
on this record, or I want this one to be
more of like rhythm and lyrics.
Yeah.
Yeah, Now, you had an album out that was called Karen.
I believe Karen.
It's like the stack of rocks you see when you're
hiking on mountains.
Yeah.
Now, I understand that has been classified as a very
calming collective body of music. So how did that come
to life?
Well, you know, that one was actually a collaborative record
with Keith Sweaty, who's a producer. Okay, that was very
like fifty to fifty us just making a joint record.
That one actually is somewhat of an outlier from my
catalog in that it's more electronic and has a lot
of lyric. You know, that's just sort of what emerged
through that collaboration. You never know it's going to happen.
Yeah, for sure.
I have a record at collaborated with an artist named
Peter Broadberg a couple years ago, and it's an album
called Burn, where a very different result came out, Like
we went to Ireland where he lives and recorded for
one week and twelve songs came out of that week,
and all twelve are on the record. In the order
they were written, which has never happened to me before.
And it's very like a lot of contemporary classical experimental
sounds really beautiful, very acoustic, all acoustic.
Yeah, you just never know how things going to happen
when you work with different people. So now that brings
up another topic. You recorded and worked with another artist,
this one in the UK. Did that lead you to
live performances where you got to meet people from different
parts of the world, seeing how they respond to your
music and how it leads you to potentially not only
helping people here in the US, but people all around
the world.
Well, what I've seen is the similarities of the processes
going on with people across countries, like we're all actually
there's very similar things happening, and there's an emergence everywhere
where I mean China, Australia, Ireland, Iceland, South Africa. Really
it's amazing and I'm like, oh, there's such common ground
here emotionally specifically to autism. Actually, recently two people came
up to me after shows, both had autism, and they
just told me that they wanted me to know of
how the music spoke to them and has been helpful
for them. And specifically with them holding autism in their life.
That's something like this is relevant to me that that
was relatively Actually, two people recently told me that.
That just shows how your music is touching people. And
you're right. I've spoken with people all over the world
and the common thing is that the stories they tell
are pretty much all the same no matter where you go. Yeah,
so you've had autistic people come up to you, You've
had varied people that have their issues, every one of
them different. What's something that you can tell us that
where your music really made a difference and you just
impacted you as much as it did them.
It's a really wide range. I mean, here's a great story.
A firefighter. He's a paramedic in the with firefighters, right,
He's got the mustache, the whole thing, and he said,
you know, his buddies.
They had a call and it was a guy who
maybe on.
Paper, whoever called is like, this person's freaking out, they're
having a psychotic break or I don't know. So they
called the cops essentially, but the firefighter paramedics show up.
They kind of quickly figured out this might have been
drug related, and they all know that this guy they're like, well,
you know about that world, why don't you go just
talk to him first, So they're already that was a
somewhat smart thing as opposed to like everyone just comes
in and.
Their firefighter outfits.
And so he walks in there and says toe, all
of his buddies like, why don't you hang outside? Don't
come in, and the guy's in there in his place.
Of course, he's freaked out. Now the authorities have arrived,
and he instantly realizes the guy's taking mushrooms and taken
more than he anticipated. He also recognizes that there's no
immediate threat right now that the guy's just really anxious.
He's really bugging out, and he asks him, hey, on
this TV here, do you have like YouTuber Spotify through there?
That guy kind OF's like yeah, He's like can I
Can I get in there? And he gets on there
and he pulled up my music for Mushrooms album. It's
a five hour album to guide a journey, and he
got it going, got the volume right, and he sat
with him for ten minutes and eventually the guy started
calming down a lot.
That's good, and then.
Events he said, are you okay? The guy's like yeah,
I'm okay, I'm okay now and they left.
Well that's good.
Imagine how that could have gone.
Oh yeah, it could have gone bad.
He could have got arrested, you know, like been in
a hospital, tear it. One of the worst days of
his life could have been.
Yeah, that's just awesome that it was handled that way,
and even better, your music was a part of the solution.
With all the songs that you've done, all the albums
that you've done, which one, if you can name one,
stands out that really is the defining one that says
what you do.
I'd have to say the album Ramdas that I did
in collaboration with Ramdas.
Okay.
Ramdas, for those who don't know, was a spiritual teacher
who passed away twenty one.
I believe he brought a lot.
Of Eastern ideas to the West and was just a
beautiful man. He's a really wonderful speaker and teacher. So
we did this record where he spoke and I wrote
music to it, and that has reached a lot of people,
and a lot of people have found it to be very,
very calming, nice. They're like micro teachings that are very
they're universal. When you put it to music, it's like
a little movie. It scores it, it brings it, amplifies
the emotion, and that one has done the rounds for sure.
Yeah, that's really good. It's always nice to have one
that you really look at defines you in your mind
of what you think that you are. Over the last
ten years or so, you've built an organic community of
music that helps people, does so much good in the world.
What's your thoughts on when you release a new product
on how it gets out there? How do you spread
that word so that everybody knows that you've got it
out there.
Well, there's a lot to listen to these days, and boys,
our attention pulled in every direction. So I'm grateful to
anyone who is paying attention and they're listening.
I think my music, too, is a little.
Bit more of a slow burn, and that you know,
if I drop something, it's not like usually there's this
big explosion.
Of some of it like takes a while to listen to.
You know, it's long, okay, and so it takes time
for it to justtate and seep into people's lives. And
I recognize that, and it has a more organic process
in which it then is being used perhaps in certain modalities,
and that takes time too, So I often have to
have patience as well.
Yeah, I get that, And patience is the toughest thing
for an artist because they want to get their music
out there, they're excited about it, they want people to
know about it. So patience is a very good thing
that you have that a lot don't. Are you doing
a lot of live performances, and if you do, are
they specific areas that where people need help or are
they just doing concerts and a lot of people come
out to get to know you, what's should dynamic there?
And how are you getting yourself out there for live venues?
You know, it's a combination.
Like I'm coming to Nashville for the first time actually
on November fifteenth, twenty twenty four. Yeah, so that's an
example of Like we met up with some Deep Tropics
promoted great promoters, and they had this idea of playing
in I think it's an old Masonic building or like
it's a really cool venue concert and I'm really looking
forward to exploring. Like I like playing in spaces like
that often inspires me, Like that particular space to me
looks really inspiring, and sometimes it's astables or it's a
lot of invitations to play at different places. And of
course we're doing this film right now music for mushrooms,
so the film itself is playing theatrically and that takes
me around. So it's a total combination of variety.
Tell us a little bit about the film.
Now, the film in a nutshell is about mental health. Okay,
so it's about music and mushrooms, psychedelic therapy, ceremony and music,
and like are these things relevant today? It missed everything
going on, But I think the answer in essence or
what the film's really exploring is like how do we
live more authentically today? Or recognizing that what's happening in
our society is the spiritual emergency, Like at our core,
we all have wounds and trauma and we're reacting from
them and that causes things for like polarization and the loneliness,
the epidemics of depression. So by sourcing within and sort
of recognizing that our inner work, our work on ourselves,
it really matters because we need to spring out from
there to make change in the world. That's the primary
message of the film.
Oh that's great. How do they put it together. Is
it musical? Is it more like a documentary? What's the
basis of the way that they put it across to
people so they get the message of what they're trying to.
Tell all of it. Yeah, so the movie is a hybrid.
It's a narrative documentary. So there's what we call verite scenes,
meaning like they're just real scenes as opposed to talking
heads which you might see in some documentaries. But actually
we have conversations in there as well. And there's a
lot of music. There's music sequences that are like live
on screen and also sort of montage and music goes
from the foreground to the background. It's been really strong reactions,
very emotional reactions from people, Like while we're talking today,
I'm in Encinitas, California. We have a screening tomorrow. It's
sold out, and we just came from La where it's
playing right now. On in October tenth, but we're doing
screenings all over the country's World Mental Health Day, and
we're specifically doing it on ten ten because of that,
to say like, hey, if we all come together and
feel together and witness together in a theater, that means
something like we're amplifying that experience of being like, oh,
I'm not alone.
Right, and that's a huge statement right there. So how
long is the film.
It's eighty two minutes, so it's it's a feature length,
but it's a nice and tight.
Yeah, that's a great time and it sounds like it's
a great film for the people that's going to come
see it. So you've got a great body of work.
You've done a lot of great things in the last
ten years. What's on the bucket list? What do you
have to do that you still want to accomplish.
Well, I think as any artist, you never quite satiated
in your expression, and I think that's what drives us forward.
And there's still a lot of things I want to
do artistically that I either haven't had the opportunity to
do or I'm developing towards it as an artist, and
that horizon keeps me driving forward again, going back to
that sense of service, like I want to reach as
many people as possible, and I still think there's so
many people yet to touch and you being in dialogue
with energetically, that's what I'm excited to find creative ways
to do.
Yeah, that sounds great when you're out there, do you
get a chance to meet and greet, talk with the people,
get a real idea of what's going on, and then
you can sit back and go, man, this is really
working and it's really helping a lot of people. And
then you can feel real good about what you're doing.
So do you get a chance to take and meet
the people? Yeah? I do.
I mean with the film, I've been talking to a
lot of people because we do panels when I'm at
the events, and I hear a lot of stories one
on one. I also do a Patreon where it's more
of a I call it the Council, and so we
have more of a community there and then people engage
on social media and you know, you hear stories and
that's important too. So you're not just like working in
a vacuum.
So over the next few months, where can people come
out and see you. Are you doing any live venues
at all?
Well being Nashville as I said, that's that's a music
concert happening in November, and I'll be in Seattle, I believe,
also in November, and we have an event at a
conference called You'd Ammonia at the beginning of November, and
here at the end of October, there's a festival happening.
I think I'm playing to me in Mexico. Also, it's
a Wanderlust event back full circle. So there's a variety
of things happening. But the film is all over the place,
and the film is doing a lot of screenings, and
some of those will be at and some of those
are just happening without me, of course, and that's at
musicfrom mushrooms dot com.
That's great. Where can people find you that want to
get more information about what you're doing.
I'm at esforest dot org in the digital space or
on social media, of course, but I think the website's
great because it just points wherever you want to go
or get to the information you need to need to
know music, tickets, Patreon, my own podcasts, whatever it is.
Yeah, so tell us a little bit at your podcast.
What do you have on.
That similar we talk a lot essentially about mental health,
but also sometimes about nature technology.
I mean the glue that.
Holds it together is it's about like, how do we
live authentically? How do we make sense of you know this?
So it could be information, it could be tools, it
could be creative music of course, right sure.
What we talk with a.
Variety of people, and sometimes I put on meditations too
that I put music behind and create and that gets
offered as well.
Yeah, that sounds like a very interesting podcast. Have you
ever had people that have come up to you after
a show or maybe during a screening that tells you
they was going down a bad path, dark place in
their life and how you have music and some of
the things that you're doing just kind of change their
direction and really help them a lot.
Yeah, I've heard those stories, but to be honest, maybe
they're projecting a bit that you know, the role I
played in it. I think they maybe had powerful moments
with the music and it is at a particular point
in our life where it helped them catalyze something important
and decisions or processes or catharsis.
Yeah, I hear that a lot. Actually, Yeah, well.
I think you're being a little bit humble there, But
that's okay. I think that's a good trait, whether you
believe it or not. Sometimes that's their perception and that's
really all that matters, is that they think that you
helped them.
Sure, Like at the end of the day, placeboss effect,
it's the same thing, right, it's still real, like it's
a change, it's those are so however it happens, it's okay.
Yeah, that's for sure. I mean that's the most beneficial part.
They were listening to something that you put out there
and it either changed their life or put them on
a different path, and it helped them a lot in
their mind. So ultimately it was a catalyst that did
something for them and hopefully better their lives.
Yeah, we're all doing We're all doing our work. Like
you know, all choices are valid.
Yeah, and it's a win win situation for everyone.
It's fun, you know, Like I said, if something helps
someone else, that's helping me too.
You know, it's kind of the golden rule.
Yeah. Absolutely, So where would you like to see yourself,
Let's say the next three to five years.
I'd love to just see the work reach so many
more people it really grows, and that it gives me
their creative opportunities to do things I've always dreamed of.
You know, I have a lot of creative things I
want to make, so I can share those with people
that are much grander expressions and frankly more beautiful, and
so I'm looking forward to having the resources to do that.
Yeah, that's great. I mean anything that anyone can do
to help someone else, that's just a plus.
Well, it would definitely make the world a better place
if we're all had that sort of attitude.
Yeah for sure. Yeah, so give us your website again
one more time and plug the movie again.
Eastfors dot org. Music from Mushrooms dot Org. I'd love you'll.
I think the film will be interesting to people, whether
they know anything about these worlds or not. Like it's
a good film in that regard, so check it out.
Yeah, that sounds really great. Is there a soundtrack to
the movie.
Well, there's a soundtrack to the documentary that just came
out a couple of days ago. Yeah, the official documentary soundtrack.
It's got ten new songs, including two reworkstuff live renditions
I did of rhmdas songs. Also the artist Peter Broadwrick
and I have a song on there, and then seven
other songs that are from those live ceremonies we were
talking about. So really beautiful music. I think it's fifty
nine minutes of music.
That's great. There's nothing better than a great movie and
a great soundtrack. So that said, I really appreciate you
coming on. This has been really interesting, great conversation.
Yeah, thanks Tony, it was fun.
Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time out of
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