389 | Building Buy-In for CCPT with Teachers and Staff

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Jada in Texas.

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Hello to all my Texans.

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It

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was actually a really cool trip when we went to Texas for the World Series.

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And then we have since been back to watch the Rays and Rangers series.

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So,

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At some point,

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we'll get there to see Rays Astros,

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but not quite.

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But

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Texas is a fun place and it was fun to be there for the

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conference last year for the meetup and

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it just kind of holds a special place in my heart.

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So,

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hello,

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Texans.

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Jada,

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thank you for the question.

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And

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this is about communicating CCPT to teachers.

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So,

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gosh,

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do we need to talk about this?

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So I'm really grateful for the question.

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This is one of the trickiest components

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of having a model

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that

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is

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anti-theoretical to most other institutions

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in children's lives.

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So,

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we have a medical model that does not align with CCPT.

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We have a legal model that does not align with CCPT.

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We have an academic model that does not align with CCPT.

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We have a coaching model that does not align with CCPT and the list goes on.

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So,

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Teachers,

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specifically,

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anyone in the school,

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really,

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faculty,

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staff,

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principals,

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all of them.

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They often have difficulty

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figuring out what we're doing and why,

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and

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it,

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it's a conversation that is important to have.

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So,

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let's read parts of that together and then we'll dive in.

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I'm having challenges communicating CCPT to teachers

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as they're looking for immediate results

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and are puzzled by the non-directive approach.

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I counsel the special needs population whose dysregulation

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is often a major factor for referral,

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and progress,

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as you know,

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takes time.

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But does come.

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Any insight would be helpful.

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All right,

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so,

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I think this is multifaceted,

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and I'll do my best to,

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to hit all of these edges.

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So,

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I think first and foremost,

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one of the things that,

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I mean,

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I coach a lot of school-based CCPTs

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and one of the most consistent areas of success

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that school-based CCPTs have found is when you pour into relationships

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with

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The faculty and staff

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at the school.

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In other words,

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we talk so much about

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child is the client,

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parent is the customer.

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But in a school setting,

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it actually shifts a little bit.

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Your parent really isn't the customer because

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your parent is typically less involved,

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but teachers,

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principals,

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school counselors,

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other faculty and staff,

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they are highly involved.

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They're highly invested.

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They want results.

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They want

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to have the issues addressed in the classroom,

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so on and so forth.

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So,

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We're asking a lot of teachers

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and faculty and staff to let us take kids out of

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the class.

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They get,

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they miss

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instructional time.

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They want to see quick fixes that don't come

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quick.

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So,

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that's a frustration for them.

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And so,

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one of the things that has been most helpful is when

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you spend time

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encouraging them,

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helping them know that you're in a partnership,

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that you value them,

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that you appreciate them.

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It's relational.

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In other words,

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we're not shoving CCPT at them.

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We are building connection and trust and relationship.

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So,

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a lot of my school-based therapists

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have

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started

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bringing donuts

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and

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Giving all of the,

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in like the break room,

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you know,

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staff,

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teacher lounge,

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whatever it's called.

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It's been a long time since I was a substitute teacher,

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so I,

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I've lost my verbiage,

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but

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you

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put it where all the teachers go all the time.

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And you bring donuts

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and you lay them out and then you put a little sign on the inside of the donut box

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that says,

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Here's a CCPT principle that I wanted to share with you,

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folks on the doughnut,

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not the hole,

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and give like a one paragraph explanation

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of that concept

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that it's all about the relationship.

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Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the relationship that I have with you.

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And you give them all donutts,

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or you bring them Lifesavers and you say,

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you're a lifesaver.

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Thanks for all the work you do with children and their families.

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I appreciate you.

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And here's what you're doing.

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You're building know, like, and trust.

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That goes a long way for patience,

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for tolerance,

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for understanding,

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and for buying time

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so that CCPT can do what it does.

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And then when progress is slow,

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they're willing to wait for it.

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So I think that would be

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facet number 1.

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I think facet number 2

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is

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Having

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discussions

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in staff meetings.

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So I don't know if you're ever given an opportunity or if

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you could ask for an opportunity to do it in service,

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to do an instructional

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time during staff.

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Can I have 15 minutes to share a concept?

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Can I have 30 minutes

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to teach

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one of the principles that we use in CCPT?

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The more you can get

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the philosophy

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and the tenets and the principles.

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In the way of exposure,

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you're obviously not going to.

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Expect mastery.

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You're obviously not going to expect them to really fully understand,

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but if you can expose them.

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You know,

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why

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Reflecting feelings is so important to a child.

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That's a very powerful tool.

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And many times when they have staff,

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they're open to someone giving a short

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informational,

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educational

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presentation.

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So that may be an option.

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Third facet

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is

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going to the principal

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or

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the headmaster,

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headmistress,

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if you're international folks,

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whoever is in charge of the school.

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That is often your gateway,

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because if you get the head on board,

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everyone follows from the head.

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And what

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I have found in the way of the school counseling.

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Coaching folks that I have,

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if they get

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the

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person in charge on board,

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everyone else follows suit.

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So,

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your best strategy is going to be to spend a lot of time

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explaining and educating and discussing and exposing and all

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of those things with the person in charge,

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because that will trickle down.

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And then finally,

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They want immediate results.

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So do parents.

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So does everybody.

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So that's that's nothing new.

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No matter in what environment we work,

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we're always going to end up having

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pressure because people want things fixed quicker.

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So,

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the strategy is

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we explain what's happening,

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we explain why that's meaningful.

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We explain

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how it's getting us toward the goal.

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And we reiterate over and over and over again,

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trust the process.

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Because

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there is no

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magic pill,

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silver bullet,

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whatever.

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There's nothing that immediately changes this.

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And so the goal is

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that we

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help them understand

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we're all working toward the same goal,

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because I think often

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the mental health side and the academic side seem

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very

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divided,

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seem very never the twain shall meet.

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And one of the most helpful things we can do is

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the work that we're doing in the playroom,

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that's actually going to carry over into the classroom soon.

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We have the same exact goals.

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Now granted,

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we don't have

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clinical goals in CCPT.

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There's no agenda.

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There's no directives,

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but speaking to a teacher,

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speaking to staff or faculty at the school,

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we all have the same goals that the child is able to self-control.

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That the child is able to self-regulate,

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that the child increases in self-esteem,

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that the child increases in worldview.

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Talk about the four universal outcomes.

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You don't have to say they're the four universal outcomes.

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You can just talk about those as goals that you have

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because you know that the child will attain those things.

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So while it's not agenda driven because it's a natural byproduct of CCPT,

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in other words,

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we're doing nothing

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intentionally

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to create those outcomes.

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So we are still fully adherent to CCPT,

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but for a teacher or a principal or someone to hear you say,

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Well,

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one of the goals of CCPT is that the child would be able to self-control.

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That's exactly what they want too.

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They want a child to not flip a desk,

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not stab a child with a pencil,

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not climb the flagpole.

287
00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:04,469
So when you use the four universal outcomes,

288
00:09:04,979 --> 00:09:06,169
that's a way to bond,

289
00:09:06,299 --> 00:09:08,099
that's a way to connect and have them go,

290
00:09:08,169 --> 00:09:08,299
oh,

291
00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:08,539
OK,

292
00:09:08,650 --> 00:09:09,900
we're on the same team here.

293
00:09:11,049 --> 00:09:11,200
So,

294
00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:12,599
those are my strategies,

295
00:09:12,690 --> 00:09:14,400
not mine particularly,

296
00:09:14,409 --> 00:09:14,950
because

297
00:09:15,210 --> 00:09:18,190
I don't typically do any school-based CCPT.

298
00:09:18,650 --> 00:09:22,590
But based on all of the people with whom I've coached and worked,

299
00:09:23,049 --> 00:09:25,210
those are the strategies that we found most helpful.

300
00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:25,599
So,

301
00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:26,109
Jada,

302
00:09:26,169 --> 00:09:27,570
thank you so much for that question.

303
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,280
And she actually had a couple of follow-up questions,

304
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,520
not clinical in nature.

305
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,000
So if y'all will bear with me,

306
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,000
I think this might be helpful for a lot of us to process as well.

307
00:09:37,119 --> 00:09:37,500
So,

308
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,000
less clinical of a question,

309
00:09:39,119 --> 00:09:40,940
just to kind of follow-ups.

310
00:09:41,479 --> 00:09:41,840
So,

311
00:09:42,020 --> 00:09:42,880
due to my fast-paced,

312
00:09:42,919 --> 00:09:44,020
high demand role,

313
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:45,320
time is limited.

314
00:09:45,359 --> 00:09:46,909
I do my best to listen to podcasts,

315
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,919
currently rereading Art of the Relationship.

316
00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:50,340
Let me pause on that note.

317
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:50,919
Y'all,

318
00:09:51,039 --> 00:09:51,390
first of all,

319
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:52,690
if you don't own that book,

320
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:54,309
hit pause,

321
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,200
hit stop,

322
00:09:55,359 --> 00:09:55,760
whatever,

323
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:56,200
whatever.

324
00:09:56,380 --> 00:09:57,419
Stop listening to me.

325
00:09:58,119 --> 00:09:59,400
Go right now and buy that book.

326
00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:01,799
It is that important.

327
00:10:02,219 --> 00:10:05,679
So if you do not own Art of the Relationship by Garry Landreth

328
00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:07,080
with two R's,

329
00:10:07,619 --> 00:10:08,880
please right now,

330
00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:10,400
go buy that book

331
00:10:10,599 --> 00:10:11,460
and read it.

332
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:13,700
And then as a follow-up challenge,

333
00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:16,179
You need to reread that every year.

334
00:10:17,710 --> 00:10:17,869
I,

335
00:10:17,929 --> 00:10:20,250
I would actually encourage you to reread it like

336
00:10:20,869 --> 00:10:24,049
probably every quarter or at least browse through it every quarter.

337
00:10:24,309 --> 00:10:25,530
But at the bare minimum,

338
00:10:25,869 --> 00:10:27,609
reread that book every single year.

339
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,919
It is the most centering,

340
00:10:30,190 --> 00:10:31,000
grounding,

341
00:10:31,599 --> 00:10:33,780
powerful tool that we have

342
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,359
to bring us back to the why of CCPT.

343
00:10:37,530 --> 00:10:37,830
So,

344
00:10:37,929 --> 00:10:39,010
that was my PSA.

345
00:10:39,409 --> 00:10:39,909
Now,

346
00:10:40,599 --> 00:10:40,919
back to you,

347
00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:41,289
Jada.

348
00:10:41,479 --> 00:10:43,049
Any suggestions on must-watch,

349
00:10:43,140 --> 00:10:43,409
read,

350
00:10:43,489 --> 00:10:46,369
or courses to take to improve knowledge on CCPT?

351
00:10:48,359 --> 00:10:49,419
I would say

352
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:50,799
episode 1.

353
00:10:51,159 --> 00:10:52,640
I know we're almost to 400,

354
00:10:52,750 --> 00:10:54,150
so I know that's a tall order,

355
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:54,710
but

356
00:10:55,289 --> 00:10:56,859
episode 1 of the podcast

357
00:10:57,159 --> 00:10:57,859
in order.

358
00:10:58,390 --> 00:10:58,750
You can,

359
00:10:58,830 --> 00:11:01,549
if you don't feel like the question is necessarily

360
00:11:01,549 --> 00:11:04,020
relevant to you or you don't need that information,

361
00:11:04,270 --> 00:11:06,650
just so that you can kind of binge listen content,

362
00:11:06,989 --> 00:11:07,760
you could skip

363
00:11:08,030 --> 00:11:09,789
past some of the Q&A episodes.

364
00:11:09,989 --> 00:11:11,650
But the curriculum episodes,

365
00:11:11,830 --> 00:11:13,369
if you listen in order,

366
00:11:13,830 --> 00:11:16,570
it gives you a seminal training in the model.

367
00:11:16,789 --> 00:11:17,210
So,

368
00:11:17,469 --> 00:11:21,570
I would say absolutely listen from episode one straight through in order.

369
00:11:22,549 --> 00:11:24,950
As far as what you should be watching,

370
00:11:25,349 --> 00:11:27,369
there are so many on-demand

371
00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:30,969
CCPT courses that I've done in partnership with Core Wellness.

372
00:11:31,469 --> 00:11:31,979
So,

373
00:11:32,590 --> 00:11:35,169
access the on-demand CCPT content there,

374
00:11:35,429 --> 00:11:36,750
and that gets you CEUs too.

375
00:11:36,869 --> 00:11:36,940
So,

376
00:11:36,950 --> 00:11:38,109
it's kind of a twofer.

377
00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:39,119
And

378
00:11:39,469 --> 00:11:40,460
that will be,

379
00:11:40,469 --> 00:11:40,969
again,

380
00:11:40,989 --> 00:11:42,539
bringing you back to the basics,

381
00:11:42,789 --> 00:11:43,219
the,

382
00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:44,270
the foundational,

383
00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:45,130
seminal.

384
00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:48,440
Philosophy and tenet

385
00:11:48,580 --> 00:11:50,659
and belief structure of CCPT

386
00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:55,530
and then obviously advanced coaching is going to be the next step after that.

387
00:11:56,059 --> 00:11:56,570
So,

388
00:11:56,820 --> 00:11:57,059
you know,

389
00:11:57,340 --> 00:12:01,299
as we move through stages of change and as we move through levels of mastery,

390
00:12:01,340 --> 00:12:01,500
you know,

391
00:12:01,539 --> 00:12:03,159
we talk about the Summit Framework

392
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:04,919
as we're climbing

393
00:12:05,059 --> 00:12:06,479
those levels,

394
00:12:06,989 --> 00:12:07,780
we need.

395
00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:11,049
To be more invested than we were earlier on,

396
00:12:11,059 --> 00:12:13,729
and we need more support than we did earlier on.

397
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:16,750
And so we're really kind of just doing stair steps at a time.

398
00:12:17,530 --> 00:12:20,380
And it's going to be more investment the further you go.

399
00:12:20,580 --> 00:12:20,799
So,

400
00:12:20,809 --> 00:12:21,909
that's my thoughts on that.

401
00:12:22,169 --> 00:12:22,809
And then finally,

402
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,109
I'm not an RPT.

403
00:12:24,650 --> 00:12:25,599
Is it worth pursuing?

404
00:12:25,609 --> 00:12:26,210
And on average,

405
00:12:26,289 --> 00:12:27,030
how long does it take?

406
00:12:27,929 --> 00:12:30,150
So they actually recently adjusted

407
00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:33,909
the RPT structure and so it is now up to 7 years.

408
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,140
And they redesignated

409
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,710
how many hours you can get in what categories and,

410
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,760
and the different sections of your RPT acquisition.

411
00:12:44,849 --> 00:12:45,159
So,

412
00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:45,739
Uh,

413
00:12:45,789 --> 00:12:46,820
if I remember correctly,

414
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:49,489
I think there are 3 stages or sections.

415
00:12:49,859 --> 00:12:50,059
So,

416
00:12:50,099 --> 00:12:51,260
in the first segment,

417
00:12:51,299 --> 00:12:52,409
you have to do certain things,

418
00:12:52,419 --> 00:12:53,250
and then the second segment,

419
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,320
you have to do certain things.

420
00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:55,159
So,

421
00:12:55,179 --> 00:12:55,369
it,

422
00:12:55,419 --> 00:12:56,479
it's very

423
00:12:56,780 --> 00:12:57,770
clearly spelled out,

424
00:12:57,900 --> 00:12:59,479
but it's not necessarily

425
00:13:00,219 --> 00:13:01,000
easy

426
00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:03,140
to just look at it and have a sense of what's going on.

427
00:13:03,179 --> 00:13:05,599
You kind of have to read the details of each

428
00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:06,500
segment

429
00:13:06,859 --> 00:13:10,739
and what you need and what hours you can get in what categories and things like that.

430
00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:13,719
As far as is it worth pursuing?

431
00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:16,219
That is absolutely a personal decision.

432
00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:16,710
Obviously,

433
00:13:16,739 --> 00:13:17,979
I can't answer that for you.

434
00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:20,739
Every person is going to have a different need or

435
00:13:20,739 --> 00:13:23,919
want of RPT and or a different rationale for it.

436
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:24,900
So,

437
00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:26,969
here's my big picture take.

438
00:13:27,039 --> 00:13:29,210
If you really desperately want RPT,

439
00:13:29,260 --> 00:13:32,400
if you've had a burning desire since you found out about the field

440
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:33,700
to be RPT,

441
00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:34,780
then go for it.

442
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:37,750
As far as your

443
00:13:38,250 --> 00:13:40,049
knowledge of CCPT,

444
00:13:40,289 --> 00:13:42,280
as far as your mastery of the model,

445
00:13:42,570 --> 00:13:46,440
as far as the influence it's going to have on your day to day work,

446
00:13:46,809 --> 00:13:49,169
as far as whether or not a parent is going

447
00:13:49,169 --> 00:13:52,469
to seek you over someone else because you have RPT.

448
00:13:53,369 --> 00:13:54,229
In my opinion,

449
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,789
I don't think that those are the rationale

450
00:13:56,969 --> 00:13:57,510
for

451
00:13:57,849 --> 00:13:58,520
pursuing it.

452
00:13:58,849 --> 00:14:02,630
I think if you really truly want RPT because it's a goal that you've had,

453
00:14:03,169 --> 00:14:04,200
then absolutely

454
00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:06,479
invest the time and the money and the energy and,

455
00:14:06,580 --> 00:14:07,530
and pursue it.

456
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:10,390
But practically speaking,

457
00:14:11,669 --> 00:14:13,469
For a child-centered play therapist,

458
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:16,789
because you have to get so many hours and so many different theories,

459
00:14:17,390 --> 00:14:21,210
it's not going to make you more faithful and more adherent

460
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,349
and more masterful in CCPT.

461
00:14:24,190 --> 00:14:24,309
So,

462
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,450
it kind of has a very different approach.

463
00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:27,270
In other words,

464
00:14:27,349 --> 00:14:31,169
if your one and only goal is to serve children and their families

465
00:14:31,710 --> 00:14:35,770
and be as faithful and adherent to CCPT as possible,

466
00:14:36,349 --> 00:14:39,729
RPT is not the path that's going to get you to those goals.

467
00:14:39,809 --> 00:14:40,419
It's a,

468
00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:43,150
it's a path that's going to get you to other goals.

469
00:14:43,710 --> 00:14:43,929
So,

470
00:14:43,989 --> 00:14:47,390
it's just really kind of about what's your motivation and what do you have in mind.

471
00:14:48,349 --> 00:14:49,140
And

472
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,700
that usually is how people decide

473
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,320
whether or not they pursue it or not.

474
00:14:53,559 --> 00:14:53,840
So,

475
00:14:53,919 --> 00:14:54,859
hope that that's helpful.

476
00:14:55,159 --> 00:14:55,400
Jada,

477
00:14:55,450 --> 00:14:56,739
I appreciate the questions

478
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,200
and I love y'all and we'll talk again soon.

479
00:14:59,429 --> 00:14:59,679
Bye.

480
00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:04,510
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

481
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,640
For more episodes and resources,

482
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,599
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.