Franchise Tag Deadlines; Andrew Luck and Colts Deep Dive with Zak Keefer

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Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL Podcast loves the Star Wars franchise. We welcome to another episode of the Around the NFL Podcast of Greg Rosenthal sitting in for Dan Hansas. Our humble host has gone, but you know who else isn't gone? A room filled with some heroes all across the globe. Mark Sessler and Patrick Claibon in Los Angeles. What's happening? Jen's, well, you're satisfying that around the globe portion, Mark, Mark around the same place. You're not about drive from Claibon. So it would be cool though, if you guys were together at Claibon's house, that would have like really surprised me if you just had your arm around you. Not that you guys aren't friendly, but it just would have been a first for this podcast. But we're setting other bounds here with me. It's Friday morning here in Tokyo. It's Thursday afternoon, three pm. In Los Angeles. It's six pm. Where Dan is about to attend or at a Yankees Red's game. To hope him and the boys have fun there we were, we were together Claibon and I think Mark might have been there too, on the day that Andrew Luck retired, and that's uh, that's part of what we're gonna be talking about this episode. Was Zach Kiefer from The Athletic coming on to talk about his pod series that I remember that that day, Well, when Andrew Luck retired, you were you were hosting a housewarming party. Yeah, we were having a shrimp boil and things good, Things were good, Drinks were flowing, and then everybody started looking at their phones and we're all kind of stuck in a in a weird work slash party mode for like an hour and a half was breaking. Actually, I unfortunately did not attend that party on but but what I how I tracked that party was because I was home. I was thinking I was not feeling too well, So I was home on the couch, you know, just tracking Twitter when the news broke and then obviously the world froze. But suddenly like a flood text from every other person in NFL media from Clay Ban's yard, tweeting photos from various angles of the yard of everyone else in n NFL media looking at their phones about the Andrew Luck news. So is this just like event inside the event? I know, we've we've done this show so long now we started it in the summer of that. Like now we have like histories that are encompassed entirely while we've started doing this podcast. Andrew lux career isn't exactly that. I started at the NFL his his rookie year actually before it started, but the podcast didn't started, uh until a a year later. But it's it's crazy to think back. But what you want to be, um, when news like that happened, where you want to be is somewhere where you have a great excuse not to right or not to jump on a podcast. I guess at that time, and I remember being happy I was there. I was not long for that party. Uh my on Walker, you know when he was younger, it was very afraid of dogs and just um couldn't handle the Clay Browns dogs. And so we didn't stay there for too long. But either way, you gave me a good out not to go have to fire off words for for Ali Bun Purry. That's what I do. That's what I do, gret. I just give people out that that's my job. But now I like I would tell you one little note about that and we'll get into zact. But being at home that Colts preseason game was on. Essentially, I think NFL Network was, you know, broadcast all around the place, and the news broke in the middle of the game. I don't know if you guys knew that at the party, but it was like you would have known after. But Schefter tweeted about it, and as Andrew Luck was, you know, in street clothes on the sidelines, the fans at Lucas Oil started to realize their quarterback was retiring, and Booze started to usher down and he essentially left the stadium floor to uh to around um angry crowd of Booze and like had to go into his press conference situation that way. It was very bizarre, Yeah, it was. It was one of the most memorable, just like news drops of the last decade, last couple of decades. We'll talk about that with with Zach. We'll we'll get into it all. I I think of of West a lot when I think of Andrew Luck, just because he was such a big uh Andrew Luck fan. Justin Graver has been digging through the archives seeing if we have any uh good Andrew Luck clips from over the year, So I'm looking forward to that. Also looking forward to a little bit of news before we get going, before we welcome in zach and Um. You know, I'm just I'm looking forward to joining you guys back in Los Angeles. This is my last bit of work in Tokyo. I'm leaving in about forty eight hours and then I will see you in sunny, uh sick Los Angeles, where it seems like everyone has COVID. Unfortunately, I'm sorry that was done. Let's do some news Graver. The guys drafted after Nikil Harry include Debo, A. J. Brown, DK Metcalf, Deonte Johnson, Harry Mclud, Hunter Renfro, Darius It was a really really good wide receiver draft. I mean, that was just kind of mean, I think to pick that as the news job Graver. I mean Hunter Renfro, he was a fifth round pick. Yeah, and Slayton was too. But right, I'm not going to kill the Patriots for that, but I would I would kind of kill him because the type of receiver they were looking for. Well, we'll get to that in a second. Let's let's start with the franchise tag deadline because it is coming up h July Friday. I'm already there. I'm on July. I am in the future. By the time you listen to this, it's already passed in Tokyo, and I can tell you from the future that none of these franchise tag guys have signed before. That's great reporting, that's your It's not an abuse of your power, but it is a questionable you questionable use of your power. It could it could come back to wunt me to uh and then this episode could be completely out of date. M But reporting from the future has never steered me wrong in the past, and so that I can tell you that the four players who were seeing if they could get a deal done. And if you're not familiar, there's a deadline July fifteenth. If you don't sign a long term deal by then, you have to either play under the one year tender that you were offered as a franchise tech player, or you could just sit out the year. That's really the only two options for you. Those four players are Orlando Brown of the Chiefs, Dalton Schultz of the Cowboys, who was the guy who probably out of these four, who there was the most hope for, and he's the one guy who could maybe bang us here at the last second. But it doesn't sound like he's gonna get a deal done. Mike Kasicki of the Dolphins and then Jesse Bates of the Bengals. Mike Garret Folos kind of been out front of this. Orlando Brown reporting to me he's the most interesting of the four, uh Graver. Let's hear what Mike had to say about him. I'm not expecting if there's no long term deal, I'm not expecting Orlando Brown for the start of training camp or really anytime during training camp. That is my understanding. Remember, he hasn't signed the tag, so he can't be fined if he's not there. And even week one is in questions. So let's see how this plays out over the next couple of days. Like I said, the sides far apart, I'm not expecting a deal, and that could have ripple effects for Patrick Mahon's blind side protector down the line here. All right, so week one possibly in jeopardy. Clavon Uh, that sounds more serious than the other guys, where this could actually be ugly and he might try to put this as far as he possibly can and miss some regular season time would be disappointing for the Chiefs. Yeah, disappointing for the Chiefs, but when you consider that they traded for him initially. Right, When we have these circumstances where you trade for the guy, you normally assume that the guy is going to be paid, especially in the circumstance right, we're Baltimore has to us starting quality left tackles, and they eventually make this deal in order to satisfy Orlando's aspirations instead of just paying him. I think that that probably would have satisfied his aspirations as well, because the only reason he wanted to be left tackle so he could be paid like a left accle. But anyway, um, it's I think he has a significant amount of leveragure considering that they paid for him, unless right, um, the Chiefs view it as some cost being a logical fallacy, which it is, but they just have to make the decision right based on That's why I like having clayban On. He has good economic hot takes. I mean that Cynthia Freeland has confirmed that one for me, and so that that means feel good because she's significantly smarter than me, as is most of the planet. But you you got him for a reason, right, That reason is projecked Patrick Mahomes and there's been all of this change elsewhere on the offense, So why not pay him? I guess, I guess I understand why. But you would like to have a football team that could try to win a Super Bowl, so you you should have your left tackle on pay him right, Like outside of quarterback, left tackle is the toughest position to find. But I think that there's I wonder what the Chiefs, in terms of their self scouting to think of Orlando Brown. I think he's obviously a quality tackle, but he wants to be paid like a top left tackle. And I think that, you know, the Ravens initially and then maybe the Chiefs few of more is being paid like a really quality right tackle. I mean that he I think he made this move because he you know, he stepped into stale his position in Baltimore, fared well, and thought this is how you make money as a tackle by playing left tackle. He got his trade and now he wants his cash. And they're very far apart. So that tells me that they're not close to Hey, you know, the Chiefs might just have to do this. It sounds like there's a philosophical difference about we're not paying you what Trent Williams just got in that last deal, you're somewhere else. And I mean the franchise tag feels closer to what they think he should make annually. I mean, just based on hearing that they're this far apart. I mean that is concerning. And but he almost has no leverage in a way too, because if they decide we'll find another tackle after after of this next season, he can skip camp and do all that, but it's his only chance to make money and play is to come in and be on the field. And whether it's skipping week one or not. I don't think he's gonna skip the whole season based over this. I don't think it's a quick fix though, Greg, do you know I I don't think he'll skip any games because in this spot, it's one of the reasons why the franchise tag is such a win for the owners and teams. The player doesn't really have any leverage. Yeah, he'll get paid eventually, but he was a third round pick. He can make more money clay Von in the first couple of weeks of the season than he made in the last few years. So if he wants to get paid like he has to play, like his salary goes up so much as the franchise tag player that you just kind of got to show up ten days before the season. Then you never do it. And Uh, the weird thing is, like everything worked with this trade that he made last year. I think it's sort of a fell under the radar that the Chiefs did fix their offensive line in one year and he's known as more of a right and he was a big part of that, and he's known as more of a good run blocker than a pass bucket. But he was fine last year. He fit right in. They gave up a first and a third for him, and some other later picks also give up a second back. But I'm surprised that they let it get to this point. Um. But it's another example where I just think the owners and the teams have the hammer because worst case for them, they can just give him a tag again next year. It's it's it's honestly preposterous, right that a guy can start at left tackle for two playoff teams and neither one of them want to pay him, right, and so if he's if he's that bad, let him go get him to free agency and then see but well, it's not like they think he's that bad. I my guess is they're offering him up to you know, million dollars guaranteed top shelf tackle money, and he wants to get like top top top tackle money and that's where these disagreements had. So then they'll tie him. They'll tie him tag somebody else. Well, that would be like giving giving. It's just tough to find the next to someone else. That's the tough so tough to find then pay him. Yeah, they they have so many like big time contracts on the books. I think it's one of the reasons they got rid of Tyreek Hill. It's not just that it was time for change offensively and like, hey there pushed to the cap. It's also like it's almost like the NBA two when you have so much of the cap on five players, it's not just about the quarterback. It's about Frank Clark is still making that money, and Chris Jones is worth it and is making that money, and Kelsey and all these guys. Suddenly it becomes complicated. You can only have five or six of those guys. I predict. I think Arlanda Brown will be one of those guys just gonna be like a year from now. And they did a great job building that offensive line with their draft picking with Orlando Brown a year ago. And it's one of the reasons why I think the Chiefs have a good chance to go to the Super Bowl as usual because they have Patrick Mahomes as their quarterback, Kasecki Schultz, and Jesse Bates. We know isn't gonna happen. Looks like all three of those won't happen, but it doesn't seem like it's as um, not as much animosity with the is three, or at least they're going to be in camp most likely on time. Maybe they'll skip some volunt you know, early work, but they'll be back on the field. There was a trade in the NFL this week the news. God's helping us out, giving us a little something to talk about. You heard it in the news dropping the Kiel Harry first round pick of the Patriots a few years ago is going to the Bears mark for a seventh round pick, which is technically, uh, the least amount uh that you can have in a trade is a seventh round pick. That's not even this year. Yeah, I mean to get anything because this comes off, you know, Mike Reese reporting that they were talking about switching him to tight end, which is just kind of like a last possible move if he ever were to stick around on the roster. I think his fate was sealed when they signed for when they traded for Davante Parker. Uh. I mean, this is a player I know everyone goes to the Oh, the Patriots don't draft wide receivers well. And we we heard all the names at the top of the show that who came at later. A bunch of other teams passed on those guys too, so it's not just New England's problem. They don't really developed wide receivers that great either. And I think this was a pick that Belichick went against the scouting staff to pick a six four, big bodied wide receiver that wasn't necessarily what they needed at the moment um, because of his friendship with Todd Graham, the Arizona States coach, and it's like, all right, you're Belichick, so we're gonna give you an eternal pass on these things. But it has to be frustrating that the team and the scouting staff in general get blamed for it, and then they brought him in Belichick's you know, hyper focused on defense at that point, and so it was up to Josh McDaniels to kind of make him fit in. I think he was. He missed the first eight games of his career, like an ankle injury or something, and never really produced. So I guess Chicago. I mean, I think we're all down in Chicago's offense or the stress they put on it in general. But you look at the outside of Darnell Mooney. I mean, he's got a chance to see real snaps, So I don't hate the landing spot if he's going to reclaim his career. Greg, you talked about players careers that we have book ended with our show. Um, it's very possible that we will booke nd n Kiel areas unless we see an uptick in some sort of production here. Well, I mean, I don't see him sticking unless our show is ending in like two years. I hope that's not the case, but I think right that it's there's clearly room for improvement. Um, he's gonna get more opportunity in Chicago. I think we've seen receivers go through New England in the past and kind of wonder about you know, who's playing what once the snap percentages and and that's the that's always the question with New England on offense because there's so many different guys that are rotating in and out and that's been a constant. But it is at tinge unfair to compare to kill Harry to to some of these other guys. But why he was he's a very similar type of That's the thing is he's a very similar type of profile coming out of college as D k In A G. Brown in a way, which is that people thought, well, not in terms of what he did in college, and he was someone that divided draft Twitter and draft Twitter gets a lot of things wrong, but they got to kill Harry right. They kind of thought he was a bust before he got taken. But in theory, a big guy who can make plays after the catch and win um at the catch point when one and one battles that that's pretty similar to what DK Metcalf and A. J. Brown what people were hoping for. So to me, those three very much are in the same bucket. And I bet that they were considering those two other guys and they chose Nakil Harry. So that makes it hurt me even more. Well, yeah, they clearly were considering those guys because those guys were good football players, right, people should have been considering A. J. Brown, uh and DK Metcalf, especially considering the people that they were playing against. Uh. I think we can look back and seeing Nikil Harry, right, and this this idea that his profile is those guys is just it's like it gets us to this weird comp territory where like if if you're relying on a complex, you should be evaluating the player more so than what they hypothetically could be. And so it's there's there's an opportunity for Nickil Harry. Um the uh when I think about Todd Graham and Bill Belichick to notorious textures, right, Um, there's there's it's there's there was Mistakes were made. Yeah, you feel bad for him. You feel bad for Harry because he didn't ask for it. He probably the bust as opposed to the decision, right, the decision to put that player in that particular position like that was that was the mistake. Like Nikkil Harry is Nikkil Harry. Hopefully he's healthy. But the idea that he had this hypothetical career and then like he messed it up. Now that yeah, he's just him the process. There's this idea that that well, you know, now that Brady is there, he can't like fix the mistakes the Patriots. I mean, they made plenty of mistakes drafting receivers with Tom Brady too. You can't change who he was. I've watched every game Harry's career. I don't have that much hope um that he'll rebound in Chicago because he doesn't make plays after the catch, and that's sort of the way he needs to win in the NFL. And he just doesn't make that first guy misses. His hands weren't really that reliable, which if you're gonna play like him, that they've gotta stand out. So he's not getting open. The hands an't reliable, I'm gonna make plays up to catch it wouldn't It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't make the Bears. Uh. And if he does make the Bears, I would be surprised if he had a big role. Uh. That's unfortunate for him, that's unfortunate for the Patriots. The Bears. Why not take a shot, Uh, you know who's gonna be taking a shot next year, clearly, UH at getting back in the league is Sean Payton. There was a report in the Miami Herald this week that that's Sean Payton. Uh is interested in coaching again, and UH an associate of his told Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, who over the years really punches above his weight and getting spicy stories. I don't know if they all come true, but at least like he gets mentioned on this show a lot, So that's good for Barry Jackson. Shot at Barry Jackson, that very sleek, slicing shot. With his stories, I think he goes out. I mean there's a dolphins angle to this. Obviously he actually had. You know, it's because I remember way back at Road a World actually sort of had a no Barry Jackson policy at Road to World for a while because he would just have these notes and it was like you couldn't tell if it was a report or just kind of like throwing stuff against the wall, and like I didn't necessarily trust, like let's not have that blaring, like it's interesting to know, but not necessarily news. This one though, he you know, he had it. He said he had an associate of Sean Payton, which he strongly indicated in the article was not Sean Payton's agent. For what it's worth, Uh and uh, he said that associate listed the Chargers, the Dolphins, and the Cowboys as potential teams that Sean Payton would potentially want to coach. Oh, but no, he's not interested in teams that have coaches in place. He would never do that because he respects the coaching fraternity too much. He just says, associates that are willing to talk to the newspaper year in advance about those teams who just hired head coaches at least in the gates of the Dolphins. So like, don't have it both ways. It's fine, just just uh, just try to get these jobs, Shohn Payton. I'm fine with that, but stop with the like, I respect the coaching fraternity too much to go after jobs like this is going after him. Or tell the associates to be quiet that the names uh mark the teams that popped up, we're kind of interesting Dolphins makes sense because there were uh, you know, quality reports that indicated the Dolphins were interested in Sean Payton before they went from Mike McDaniels. So that makes sense. The Cowboys obviously makes sense. The Chargers being thrown out there, Uh, it's kind of spicy. I don't I don't see that happening. I do feel like Brandon Staley is a long term coach there, but I guess you never know. Yeah, you think Brandon Staley is probably set up to have for him a bounce back year in terms of like that defense looking like it's gonna get so much better. That report included the fact that Sean Payton um wishes to have one warm weather to a roster that can can tend in three, control over the personnel decisions, none other. That's surprising. But if you're if you want to float your name out there, why not get attached to um? Essentially justin Herbert that makes too much sense. I mean, that is a ten year career right there, and he did pretty good with a former Chargers quarterback and Drew Brees. I just find it a bit in saying that, Like, if you're Mike McDaniel, you've never coached a game, and you've got a fan base that already previous to your higher dealt with the Tom Brady, Sean Payton want to team up and take over the Dolphins. Whispers that you know bubbled up this offseason and now you have Sean Payton's and I mean, I have to believe Sean Payton completely knew this was coming. This this whisper campaign draped over your first season as a head coach. So it's a little bit of a mess. I mean, I to me, I feel like Steven Ross. He gets these big ideas sometimes, um, and he could be someone that maybe would fall for that kind. I mean, I'm just saying your fault more. Sean Payton is an excellent coach, but it would be a shame that someone, even if they fared pretty well, we're bounced after year one. Um, to get the bigger prize in Sean Payton. But that's how it goes. Yeah, It's it's Sean and Company playing the Game of Thrones, right, um, and not only tying yourself to these teams, but tying yourself within those divisions as well as if to say, hey, um, I might be coaching here and you can just imagine that the money. Uh, It's it's like the worst kept secret in the world that he's going to be somewhere. Uh. And that's what you even said it. In his his press conference retiring from the Saints, he actually said, I see myself in football again. It might be on the sideline. Uh Like so that that was pretty even even in that press comm It might be on the sideline next year, like he admitted it. Even then. If you're Mike McCarthy, doesn't it just feel like you're you're with someone that you knew you're just like, I'm hanging on for dear life. I know we're breaking up at some point I will be dumped for this ex boyfriend, Sean Payton type character that the Cowboys have been infatuated with, Jerry Jones infatuated with. It's like you know it's coming, It's gonna happen. Be the Cowboys coach. It's like Mike McCarthy just go through the motions for the next nine months, have a good time, especially considering right, because during Mike McCarthy's time away from coaching, where he he became a computer right, and he was analytics man, he's he's ran the numbers and he knows, right, Mike McCarthy knows it's not like a clock. Um. He's perfectly well aware of watching this situation. And and that's okay, right, He's he's got a ring. He got the coach the Cowboys for a couple of years. And if it, if it goes soll to go south, he's getting paid, right. What some some team that has a good quarterback that's expected to do well will be a disappointment this year. It might not be the Chargers or the Dolphins or the Cowboys, if you want to throw them in there. It might be some other team and and they will watch on Payton. But I'd be a little worried because it said, I'm reading from the article here, Mark, you mentioned the warm weather that being a fact. Now, okay, uh quote, having a good quarterback would be helpful, but that isn't the number one or number two factor the associate and says, okay. On a much lower scale, the close associate said he would also Sean Payton prefer to work in a market where he could golf some what right, right? I mean, I guess he wants it to be like you know, in the winter, probably too during the season. I would guess, of course they throw in the caveat those work ethic in long hours largely limit these opportunities to the offset reminding me a little bit. And there's no one more similar in the last fifteen years to build Parcels to me than Sean Payton, who was his mentor. And it is giving me Bill Parcels getting that final paycheck in Miami vibes. And I know Parcels wasn't coaching at the time, but golf was a big priority for him at the time too, And that was a fiasco where he got like the biggest payday of his career and gave very little in return. And I and I don't think Sean Payton would be quite like that, but he is getting closer to sixties. And if golf is mentioned in the article, that's a red flag I don't want him. I mean, Parcels only took that Cowboys job prior to the Dolphins one to pay off his divorce, So I mean, not only, but that was a large motivating factor. Guy, you're you're breaking the myth for me. Bill Parcels only worked super hard and he was super about the game and motivation. You're telling me he was just a person. He's just a selfish guy. Who who are guests earlier in this offseason, Mike West tough had some had some rough things to say about including off air. We we can't we can't repeat that, but I do apologize claim and I cut you off in the middle of that. But that is the first time someone's ever cut you off from Tokyo live on air. So that's great. We're breaking new Yet I don't mind cut me off whenever. Okay, I don't know what. By the way, you're wearing a plaine white tea. Are plain white tees making a comeback right now? Because I've been wearing a lot of plain white teeth. I've been wearing plain black teas for about ten years, and I did decide this summer it's like time to mix it up now. It's all about the plane white tea. It's the color temperature of the sunlight coming through. It's actually a light blue. So when you say that, I can see that. I would have thought it was white too. But you're right, and don't take fashion cues from for me, Greg, I know nothing about fashion. I actually rejected as a concept, So I just put the shirt on because it's comfortable. Well, I'm color blind, and my family rejects me as a concept for that reason. Many times they make fun of me. It's really I'm really in the like my kids are in the middle of their childhood and their dad is the butt of all jokes, like section of my life, so that that's what this track. I think color blindness is often funny to children too, so that that that adds to it. All Right, a couple of more quick news items before we get to Zach Kiefer and talk Colts, and we'll talk Andrew Luck and Colts. By the way with them, Baker's Progressive Ads are over. I thought that was just a note where they we taped our last show before Baker had a media availability with the Panthers. Nothing big came out of that. He sort of, um, I guess would set all the right things if you think there is such a thing about the brown didn't didn't get too spicy. But the most notable thing for me was he did confirm the Progressive Ads are over that he had pitched an idea to Progressive of doing like some moving out of the stadium, which I I, you don't blame him. He's one of the finest actors of our generation. And uh, I think the idea would have worked, but Progressive said, no, Mark, are you and your children disappointed mine are they love those ads? Um I I grew to not like them because I think the thing and I think Claybold and I've talked about this before, we're like, um, these ads need to be scaled down when the players going through like a traumatic season where it's like, oh, your team's down thirty to seven, and now here's a whimsical ad about you eating breakfast with Bernie Kozar in the in the stands. I don't like. I don't need that. So it's like the less the more. The other thing is we will talking and Threw Luck In a minute in one of those great six episode pods that Jack did, I'd mentioned that Andrew Luck is a first round pick, simply refused and turned down millions and millions of of of national ad dollars because he's like, I'm not doing this till I know I'm a good quarterback in the NFL. It's like, okay, that's the other way to go. I mean, Baker, you know that rookie season I think set him up to fly as a as a national sponsor. But um, I thought they were often egg in the face compared to what was happening with the team on the field outside of that playoff here, which is why you shoot two commercials, right, every commercial we have a good and I'm bad, and you roll the bad commercials, the games bad and the good commercials the game is good. Um. I think it's kind of the theme of the off season is people not wanting Baker anymore and the progressive to be that final strike in that aspect that that had to be tough for I think it was good though that first of all, take take the money. There's an argument to be made to take it because you don't know, and you know your opportunities might be in a certain window for every one could be Andrew Luck on the purity scale with that too, I get that, but didn't didn't somebody complain about Luck doing our commercial in his rookie year. I feel like that was a story, but you know, they did try to compare and as Mark mentioned, ZAX podcast kind of broke up this dichademic people concluding West a little bit. I remember, or I think we talked about in the podcast, would talk about how much r G three had a million ads that but maybe maybe there was one also Luck might have known his strength and weaknesses like Baker was smart to do that because I think he might have set up future work. Uh, whether it's an advertising or just acting. I think Andrew luck knew that probably wasn't gonna be his strength as an actor on commercials. He probably would have been awkward, and uh, it's fine. I also like Baker's total I wouldn't say disregardle of Sam Donald. They talked about, you know, competition all this, but he made it very clear that he expects to start Week one against the Browns. Uh, and he's looking forward to that game, which is sort of putting Donald to the side. And UM, I don't I don't blame him too much for that confidence. I think we'll be starting that game too. Uh. Final couple of stories quick when Rodney Hudson's future is up in the air in Arizona. I only threw this one out there because A he's like a really good center and was key to their season last year. But be the it was interesting to me how social media can shape a story. They sent out, uh a tweet this week that said like getting ready for the two season, like ready to protect or whatever, and they just sent out their four starting offensive lineman without Rodney Hudson. Maybe don't send that. Maybe you don't send that tweet because it's people didn't need justin pew in a hype tweet on July twelve. Uh, they sent out the four, but they left Hudson out. It's just like, no just sending out one of them. Send out Calvin Beacham by himself. So they said not the four without Hudson, and uh, I think Pro Football Talk was the one that noticed this, so I'll give them credit on that. Uh. They also are in the practice of sending out happy birthday tweets and uh, Hudson shared a birthday with another member of the roster. I need to I should find it now, but familiar. I wasn't familiar with this man, but he shared a birthday with him. They sent out the birthday tweet to him, but not to Rodney Hudson, whose birthday was also that same day, Tuesday. So something's going on there. It's just something to watch. It's actually one of the only contractual or disagreement sort of battles I think that might go into the season. It's very rare that actually happens. But it wouldn't surprise me if this, if if we mentioned this as an aside on August that this is still happening, and in one little note, because I mean, we know the Cardinals were hot on we were hot on their trail out of the gate last year. I thought they were fascinating and they really crumbled. But a big part of it, beyond you know, the injury to DeAndre Hopkins, was when Rodney Hudson went out. They won the first two games, like one against the Houston Texans, and they beat up on the Browns and the Browns were in a bad spot. Then they lost the next three without Rodney Hudson and he was a huge part of it. And so they don't really have anyone on the roster right now to fill in for him. So I do wonder, because we wondered what if J. C. Treader might wind up somewhere, They're gonna have to find someone to replace them because that's a major gaping hole for the ten million dollars. So they should just either figure out what's going on. I'm get seen he wants to be paid more, which makes sense considering what centers are making. He's one of the best ones out there. But well, there's Chuck Harrison USA today had a tweet said followed up on Rodney Hudson's status, asked if he was done in Arizona, was told believe so. So I don't know if it's just simply a quick fix with money. We'll see by the way that the other player, I shouldn't disrespect this man, Masi Sanders, who's it was a third round draft pick this year, a linebacker. Um, so you know, has a promising career and does deserve to be wished a happy birthday like right, so happy birthday right to mass I. I just want to say, like we're like a lower level player. He's no wonder, we don't know him. He's a third round rookie, hasn't hasn't played quite yet. Finally, Mitchell Schwartz has retired. Happy trails to him one of the best right tackles of his generation. Miss last year really a back injury ended his career a little early, but he had a great run there with the Browns. And then Levian Bell says he's sitting out two to focus on boxing. He's boxing Adrian Peterson coming up, Clay Bron something I never thought i'd say. I guess like someday we'll have like a we'll talk about Levan Bell's retirement, but this feels like this is basically the end of his career. What a weird career, but four three or four years one of the most dynamic running backs I've ever seen in my entire life. He would be in he'd been at his peak, I would say top five running back I've seen in the last fifteen years. And which, right, is another reason to hate the tag, because we really got robbed of a season of Levian Bell when he was at his peak. Um, and it would have been nice to to watch a really good football player play football, but there was this opportunity to not pay him, and so they took it. Yeah. He he sort of expressed some regret. I think about that. I don't know if you would say regret, but he he said he would handle some things differently on Twitter this week, and when it came to if he could go back and do it again, I don't. I don't know what that well, and the way he said it, Gregg, you said, like if I had a legit time machine to go back to, that would be so lit. That's when he That's when he put in his retirement statements, which a lot of people would take that opportunity, all right, short of erasing children right now, I would I feel the hands of time bearing down on me more every day. I'm definitely gonna be one of those older people that just thinks about death all the time because I'm I'm forty three. Now It's okay. I think it's a way to enjoy life while you're here, to like be appreciative of of every day is be conscious that it won't last forever. But forty three is at the point where it's like, well, you do the math and there's a solid you know, there's a there's always a solid chance you're more than halfway. But even if you have good health, like you might be after halftime here, you you might have just you know, they might have just done the halftime show. You might be like starting that first third quarter drive something like that. I'm just these were played on. These were the type of pep talks that Greg would give me when he was my supervisor back in the day that just I kind of get you, you know, ready to roll, just like you don't know how many more seasons you're gonna have. Mark, let's really write up this story on ben Hart socks training camp injury. All right, that was the news. That's it. Let's take a quick break and then we'll get to Zach Keeper. I'm Zach Keeper from The Athletic and I'm the host of a new podcast series called Luck. It's the Andrew Luck Story as you've never heard it. The series looks to answer this question, how did the greatest quarterback prospects since John Elway, the very player the Colts moved on from Peyton Manning for end up walking away from the game before he was thirty years old. All right, we are excited to welcome in Zack Keefer. You know, I let into the break kind of with some existentialist talk. What is life really mean? How do you maximize that time? Do you do it through finding meaning through work? I do? I mean, I at least feel like that's an important part of life, Otherwise it would be too much time to kill. I think Zach Kiefer being here talking about Andrew Luck is the perfect guy to let us know, because when I think Andrew Luck weirdly, I think he brings up Zach more existentialist questions than most NFL superstars of the last You know, a couple of decades. Let me ask you guys this. So when you heard there's a six part series coming out on Andrew Luck three years after you retired, he hasn't said a word in retirement. Like, what's your first reaction? Is it like curiosity? Is it disdain? Is it ambivalence? Like should people care about him? I'm just curious, what do you guys think? You know? I I, Um, I knew we were doing this today, so I had a big wide birth of time because we're doing the show much later than we normally do. And I was like, I want to uh research this properly, and it was it was you, and you've done great work with us in the past, and you're in your peace on s. I knew from a writing and research angle that you were going to deliver. Um. I found myself initially being like, I kind of feel like I know everything about it. Not everything, but I kind of have a sense of Andrew Luck. And it was around episode two point five, and I will show you something right here. I don't know if you can see this, but this is like my little tracker that shows how long I walked today. I put on the air pods and walked four point five Miles just listening to these episodes back to back, because I think it became more and more layered, and I just find Andrew Luck a perfect contrast of the modern day quarterback who is not just a robot stuck in the game, um, but beyond that, you really hit on from a football side, which I kind of think I forgot about because he retired at a young age, and you start to have an idea of Andrew Luck maybe not loving the game as the next person. It was to Quell Jackson who said, outside of Frank Gore, no one had a greater passion for football. No one found more joining it, and that is competitive nature. I think there was the line about the monster that lurks within from David From David Shaw, like, I mean all the stuff I found out from a football angle, but also the personal angle. It's like it is a must listen if you want to just deep dive on the life of an NFL quarterback that made a really unusual decision. Yeah, that's a great point. Mark, Like, there's this great duality with Andrew Luck, right, like does he love football? He walked away young, But like you just heard from JaQuel Jackson, like Andrew Luck loved football so much that it made him question if he loved football enough. And he was a ten year linebacker in the league, and he ran counter to all these stereotypes, like he was this star quarterback in Texas, but like he was the valedictorian and he went to Stanford and he was an architecture major and he didn't really care if he won the Heisman. And then he was in the NFL and he had this little velcro wallet with his college logo on it. He was a millionaire and he had this bevel crow wallet. He had a flip phone, and everyone knows about the flip phone. But like his teammates would get piste off because they would send him pictures and they he couldn't open up the pictures, like he he genuinely, he genuinely didn't care about the nonsense, Like he just didn't and he cared about football. And there's this great Matt Hasselbout quote. He said, like a lot of guys in this league just love being in the NFL. Not all of them love football. There's a difference, and Luck was the latter. He loved football and his career is just I think the podcast does two things if it does it well. It it explores the personality and how he's unique, and it also explores his career, the Peyton Manning thing and that, and that's really unique to to me. Yeah, it's it's an opportunity to to not just look at Andrew Luck in his career, but football and the way that we perceive it, right. And what got me interested was the first ad that I that I heard and shout out right to you know, Zack if you were part of putting it together, because it immediately got to the core of me. Right, what if the Colts had protected Andrew Luck and this uniquely gifted football player that we were able to watch, but so many different aspects were striking against the person that he is, um and there was this whole conversation about the player and the way he went about it and like what loving football actually is. But Andrew never got to be a part of that discussion, right, and so like to have him be able to be a part of that after the fact, I think it's good because it's there are so many different things that go into this game from a player's perspective that that we don't really get because of the atmosphere and attitude surrounding the game, and so anytime that we can turn and look at football in the mirror is a good opportunity that we should take. Oh yeah, I mean to answer your question, Zach, I was like, oh, this is a great idea of and I mean because he's one of the most fascinating characters and that we've had in the NFL. Because he was one of the most fascinating players unfortunately, just the way my simple mind works, and probably there's other people like it. If he wasn't one of the most dynamic, exciting players on the field, and I would put him right there to me with Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. It's just like as a player, just as exciting as any player. Justin Herbert I'd throw in there now too. As just that that I've seen come into the league in last fifteen years, maybe I'm not quite as interested, even though I know he's so interesting as a person and he's a unique guy. But but the fact that he was that good, that he gave that much joy to me watching it, thought well, this is perfect, And I thought of Wes and and it's interesting because you know, listeners might not be familiar. Zach wrote a great piece about West and the athletic and we talked to him um for a long time about that, and he did a great job with that. So we associate Zach with West too, But I associate h Andrew Luck with West because not only was West like a huge, huge fan of Luck as a player, immediately he was sort of fascinated by him. I think he saw the story of Luck as fascinated and I think he saw him as the next great NFL player from minute one. I started doing this article called QB Index in twenty twelve, and it was just following that Rocky Draft class. I watched everything and he was such a fascinating player. So I put that all together and I'm like, I'm I was glad you were doing it. And even then, to Mark's point, I I sort of felt like I knew Luck, but I kind of forgot the timeline of it all, you know. I forgot how strange it was that it was the calf and the ankle injury, and how surprising that was, and how umen season when he came back from those two lost years, really almost three lost years to to injury that that affected him, how great he was in and that's what made the retirement all the more stunning. And so I I was relearning things, but I had really forgotten how crazy and how condensed the timeline of it was covering him, uh in in person, Zach, I know I'm going on here, but I kind of want to get back to something Mark said, which was the dichotomy of just like what it was like covering him, And I'm kind of thinking before the injuries came up that like he was like a cocky m fer on the field, you know, and sort of what that the economy was like, where like it was such a different person off the field. But he's like he played like a cocky guy. Like he played like he thought he was the best player in the league. When he was on the field, he couldn't hide that. That's the great contradiction, right. He's this goofy nerdy architecture major who has this goofy laugh and would use words like modus operandi and perpetuity and press conferences and then after the press conference gaggle breaks up, he'd come up to me and say, Hey, did I use that right? Like I've been waiting weeks to try and use that I'm like, you're the weirdest dude. And then you hear David Shaw describe him as this as this monster who's gonna kill you and then step over you after he killed you. And you know, there's the scenes from his first game at Stanford when he runs right into the safety when he's supposed to go out of bounce and he runs off the field and he goes, I know, I know, I know, I'm supposed to avoid the contact, and Shaw was like, yeah, we we designed place so you don't get hit, and He's like, I just had to get hit, man, I just had to get hit. So like both of those things were at war. And and it's really like the story of his career is this like goofy nerve. But inside he was kind of like this beast who could have played tight end, could have played linebacker. I mean he would drill linebackers to the turf and then help them up off the field and say good hit, like we're gonna we're gonna see another Andrew look like he was. He was one of a kind in a lot of ways. And and I'm not allowed to take my reporter hat off, but let's just say I did back in the day. It's fun as hell to watch that dude play. Like those teams were not good. That cold team was not good in they won eleven games seven at the Buzzer because this rookie quarterback was insane. I think one thing that you um really educate people onto, because no injuries are more hidden in the NFL than quarterback injuries in general. You find out later that you know someone was playing with this le malady that for they could barely walk and they two to Andrew lux recovery was almost done in covert fashion where he'd be in before other players, taking every type of shot and they you know, they would be a fraternity where normally they would say I'm going through something and you know it, but in this case it was very much hush hush, and you described in words a couple of times that at the end you saw a man who had been drowning for four years through this pain and that the fun, all this joy that he brought, the Frank Gore level joy turned into a daily hell. And I really learned from that, and I do wonder just because I also found out that um, he and I went to the same school in England that American school. I mean, and he and his whole childhood was so different. Like the little nugget about watching Adam Vinitari in in a in a World League game and then in his first ever win as a starter, Adam Vinitary seventeen year later is kicking the field goal he just had. His dad had a lot to do with that too, But his childhood, his early path, did that contribute it all to making peace with an early retirement versus I'm just gonna gut this out for more money and just do what I can to do. Don't you think it did? I do? Don't you think that shaped everything? Like you heard TV the Pritchard who was the quarterback at Stanford that lost his job to Andrew be like make pop culture references when Andrew was in college. And Andrews like, what are you talking about? Like he was reading the Game of Thrones books before it was even a show. Like he it's just different like I was when I met with him a couple of months ago. You know, I was reading this book and I'm like, I'm gonna get him, Like I'm gonna name this book he's never heard of and I and I named it, and he's like, oh, he named the author right away, And I'm like, man, like, you know, like you can't even get that past him. And and I think I think it plays into everything. He was very worldly like his his his view of vacation is very different from what an NFL player's view is. And and I remember looking at him that night, the night he retired, and it wasn't just a physical pain. He was mentally beaten down. And it made me think, like what are these guys owe us? What do they owe the fans? What do they owe the league? Do they owe this idea that they're supposed to play as long as they can and they're supposed to, you know, y a tittle walk off the field, blood dripping down their forehead, Like what are they supposed to? What's the script? And this, this career didn't follow the script. And I and I asked myself to this day, like he's twenty nine years old, he walks away fifteen days before the season opener, Like how did we get here? Like how did this guy that they've moved on from Peyton manning for like and that's episode two, Like it's hard to nationally put that into context, Like you don't move on from Peyton Manning like he was the whole city. He was like the mayor, and they did and it was the right football move, But like, how did we get here? And that's kind of what we try to answer. But that's a good point you made, Mark, Like it starts in London, it starts in Germany, it starts in this overseas childhood that makes him see the world a little bit different. Mhm. I I like I think though, yes, the background made a difference, But it seemed like he was just kind of heartbreak. And I guess that because I think people conflate that, Okay, he has these other interests. He's smart, he had you know, he can do other things in his life, so he can walk away from the game in a way others can. I don't know, Like you tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's sort of misreading it. It just felt like his heart was broken, like sort of by the injuries that he that he and I think this has happened to other players probably too, They're just not in the same position as Andrew. Luck that that he did love the game so much that like that that entire process with the shoulder, which you That's what I really learned more than than anything. And this is it's a great it's a six part podcast. It flies by really quick. I think the pacing is really good, Zach, Like it didn't feel like it always felt like it was really moving forward quickly. You did a great job with that. But it just felt like he loved it so much. It was almost like this thing that he loved that totally that sort of didn't love him back. And at that moment it his heart was just broken and that he sort of loved it so much that he couldn't do it again, that it was over. That it was. It wasn't about like that he had other interests. It was almost that he just he felt too strongly about it that he that he couldn't continue. And I think that that somehow makes sense as a human. I looked at him that night and I remember telling myself football has been beaten out of him, Like that's what happened. It's it's the kidney, it's the calf, it's the ankle, it's the throwing shoulder that's torn for four years, it's the it's the I'm missing a body part, but name one. And he's he's busted it up. Um, yeah, I mean Greg. But here's the thing, Like, and I go back to this a lot, like nobody retires from a calf injury, like a calf string. It wasn't the shoulder that that did it. He nearly walked away at age from the shoulder, and he came back and he had this great season and then like everything looked great with Frank Rock. They were getting the ball out fast. Frank's got these cross seen row It's like the offense just made sense. They get Whatton Nelson and they've got this line that protects him and he makes you know. He's the NFL comeback Player of the Year. And like I wrote, like the future of the a f C is Patrick Mahomes and Andrew Luck and I thought it was and and to your point, like why not just rehab? Why not just rehab for for six weeks? Why not just rehab for two months? Why not take a year off and come back, Like that's why this doesn't make sense. And he was working like crazy to come back until the last minute, like crazy, And it just I've never been as surprised in my life as I was when I read that and seeing right, seeing that rehab process play out those that can. We've kind of seen a corollarya where Cam Newton undergoes shoulder surgery and we see him come back and there's a similar path. Right, there's there's a lack of velocity. There's this question of how how is this player in this part of his career going to reconcile being a different type of player and from the outside looking in, and I apologies I haven't been able to get into the pod just yet, but but I do wonder how much of playing Like if I were to go on to a basketball court right now and try to play pick up, there's things that I can't do now right that I remember being able to do. And when you're Andrew Luck and when you're out there against professionals and you're thinking about things that you can't do anymore, even at twenty eight years old, how much that plays into a decision of whether you want to do this anymore? When you can be good at other things, right, and you recognize and you have the privilege because of where you come from, because of who you are, that you feel like you can make this decision and you're financially capable of doing so, that That was my view from from the outside looking in. If I can't be Andrew Luck, then I'm gonna go be Andrew Luck in all the other parts of my life. That's a really good point, because that's that's something he said that night he walked away, was I don't want to be like this team can't handle like that's not good enough for me and it's not good enough for them. Now, some of Andrew Lux better of a lot of guys Kobe Brissett who started that year. But I want to mention one thing that happened the year before when he was coming back from the shoulder. Everything was fine physically, but mentally he wasn't there yet, like that cockiness, that swagger that all these alpha type guys have. And he goes up to Tom House, who brought him back, the throwing guru, and he says, am I ever going to be great again? Am I ever going to be myself again? And so he had to go through that, and you would just think that Andrew Lux shows up on a football field and if he's physically healthy, he's a badass, But like in his head, he had lost all that confidence, all that confidence, And I think that is a really good point because it played into the same thing a year later when he said, if I'm dealing with this foot and if i can't move in the pocket, I'm not going to be myself and I'm gonna start to hate myself again. And and the mental struggle was real, like he was in some dark places. And and that's something not about not a lot of athletes talk about, but that's a really relevant thing here, right. I think, um, you did a good great job painting the picture when he was in the Netherlands and he and he actually had a long conversation with you. I think it was the next offseason coming back, talking about how dark that place was. And even then, and I think when Tom House talked about it, it felt like Luck was still he struggled to talk about the mental side of things. And I listening to him, you know, in it and you can understand it. He sounded like someone who is who is depressed and and was struggling with with everything that was going on, and and and that might have played a you know, part of the retirement. I know you had sort of an off the record long meeting with Andrew Luck. I am curious, like for at least what you can't say, like how do you think he's doing now? Like how do you think he's doing in retirement? Like I I want to I want to believe in a happy Andrew Luck and and that it's going well. You can it was a great meeting, Like I it killed me that it was off the record. I get that, Um, but I'm gonna honor that he wanted it to be off the record. He's doing great, like I got. I got no sense at any point that he was thinking about coming back, that he's ever thought about coming back. Um. But the funny thing is, like none of this story followed the script, and even to this day, it still doesn't all add up like you think it would, Like he lives five minutes from the Colts facility like that through me. They're over there trying to replace him, you know, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, and he's right there. Like you could throw a baseball and probably hits hell. Yeah, I was surprised he lived in Indianapolis. No shape to Indianapolis. Yeah. When it comes to Andrew Luck, I mean, what what is his goal? Do you have a sense that he has like another part of his life that he wants to, like go be the best at because I don't think the thing that would be hard is like to do this thing so well? Have it stripped out in a very philosophical approach to it. I think there's a lot of hurt attached to it too. He sounds like he's in a good place, but then what's the next thing? Because he's he is so young. Yeah, Like imagine being that good at something and then just not being able to do it at twenty nine, Like you got like what do you like? You gotta pour yourself into something else. You're super competitive, Like all these guys are like that. I don't know, and I think he you know, this is my words, not his, but I think he struggled with that. Like I think like Andrew Luck is still like this ghost in Indianapolis, Like I'll get text messages like I saw him at the grocery. He's alive. Like the specter of Andrew Luck has kind of become this like mystery in Indianapolis, and like what does he do to fill the days? Like he's got like money is not an issue for the rest of his life, Like but that's not ever what's made him happy? So That's another layer to this that I find so fascinating, Like what would you do if you had all the money in the world but no outlet, no purpose, you know, in he stayed at home and he's you know, he's got a two year old daughter, and um, like that's been a big part of his life for real, it absolutely has. But that's what I'm excited to see next. You know, he started to come out of hibernation, he started to show his face a little bit more. He thought about doing the podcast, he really did. I thought he was gonna do it, but then he ultimately declined. So, um, but that's a good point, Mark, And like, I don't only he can answer that, you know, like he's he's gonna have to do something. Maybe maybe it's private. Like I know, he's given a lot. He does a lot of stuff like off to the side that no one knows about. But like he's just too bright, you know, to to not do something to help the world. Right. He was majoring in architecture at Stanford. Like I don't know if you guys had any friends that uh did architecture in school, But that was the hardest major possible. It was the smartest people possible, and it took the most work possible. It's see, it seemed like if you were in architecture school that you couldn't do anything else. And he was doing that while being Andrew Luck at Stanford. So maybe he should get into concrete. I don't know. It's a great it's a great series. Uh, it's a six part series. It's called luck On on the Athletic exactly want to keep you, uh, to talk a little bit about the Colts while you have you, While we have you, we're gonna be selfish and take up more of your time. But before we do that, I did ask Graver to go look just for some clips of us talking Luck during his career, and um, this is a happier moment. This is maybe the peak of Luck's career. I think the win he had against Tennessee in eighteen to get back into the playoffs if you remember they started one in five that year was after he missed two years where he thought his career might even be over, and he came back and he won that game. That's one peak. But I think if you think of one game as of Andrew Luck, I think you think the huge wild card come back against the Kansas City chiefs. Uh. Here was the Around the NFL podcast reacting to that comeback? Uh? What was that now? Eight years ago? Why? Wow? That's the only thing I can say. Andrew Luck is the first step towards legend status. Is this the beginning of the Andrew Luck arc towards greatness? Yeah? If if it wasn't already. I mean, he's broken the records for comeback victories and you just can't ever count him out. He puts the team on his back, he starts running, he starts passing, He's physical, he does everything well. His instincts are great. That fumble play was awesome. He's twenty four years old. He's not even twenty until September, next September. This guy, I mean, it's unreal what we're seeing at this young and age, with this um, this little experience. I can't even imagine what we're gonna see five years from now. I feel like we've the ceiling has been taking out taken off. There is no limitations to what this guy can be. Like him, he was surrounding talent. I like him. As he was pulled what appears to be out of Amish territory and you know, we talked to Greg today before the Bengals game, and you said you would rather face Andrew Luck in the Colts over Andy Dalton and the Bengals, and and that shocked me because I wouldn't want to deal with Andrew Luck on any level in the playoffs. He is just flat out finding a way to win these games. What about t Y Hilton outrageous? Yeah, he's great and they use him a lot like the Eagles used to Sean Jackson. I mean, Andrew Luck was so good. He was almost the best quarterback in this game. Oh in man, you gotta get me with like two terrible takes in one little clip Raver. I mean, not only did Mark point out that I said rather play Dalton, but I just made an illusion that does feel drug induced. I think that was a fair question on my part. Alex Smith did played great in like game. Poor Alex Smith had has had some terrible luck over the years too, and that was maybe the best performance of his career too, and ended up in a losing effort because Luck was so good. We're gonna take one more quick break and then Zach, we're gonna get you a few questions about the Colts and then we'll we'll get out of here and I'll head back to the U S Alright back with Zack Keefer, we talked Luck. There's no Andrew Luck on this team, Zach Uh. Matt Ryan is not going to be able to do the things that Andrew Luck did. Matt Ryan should not be seeking out contact Uh like Andrew Luck did. In fact, I think that's one of it Matt Ryan's best strengths that he can avoid that contact. Him being with Frank Reich, what do you think that combination's gonna be, like, Like, how do you think Ryan will be different? How do you think reich system will be different? Because listening to the podcast, going back to the Luck thing, it it's sort of reminded me, oh man, he only had that one year with Reich, you almost forgot, and that was the most efficient year of lux career. He got sacked the least them out in the entire league. So he totally changed who he was as a player. And it's one more um piece of evidence to me that Frank Reich is one of the pre eminent coaches to have if you're a quarterback and I and I mean like top two or three, that's my opinion. Uh so, how do you think that Frank Reich system and and everything is gonna work with Matt Ryan? How do you think it's going to be different? Five quarterbacks in five years? Like it seems like a made up stat um. You know, It's funny. I haven't thought about the current to all for the last three weeks because I've been on this deadline. So yes, Matt Ryan's the quarterback. And and it's crazy like during the spring, you know, talking to people around the organization, it's like they're just like laughing at how well this turned out. Like literally, like there were Baker Mayfield rumors, like there were Mariota rumors, like this team had no plan, Like they just entered free agency and we're like, we don't really love any of these guys out there. We're just gonna sit and see what happens. And then Matt Ryan magically sort of became available due to all these circumstances with just and and then like every single word we've heard about Matt Ryan has been unbelievable praise like he's he's a legit dude, like he's he stepped in and they're just like Carson Wentz, who like they're like, we've got the guy, and maybe that's a little bit ahead of myself in terms of like it just seems like it fits perfectly. I don't want to drink the kool aid too much because like I know how this league works. But you know, they're comparing him, like Reggie Wayne. Like Reggie Wayne said this, He's like it makes me sit how much he reminds me of Peyton in terms of a leader. They're not the same quarterback. Let's not get ahead of ours. So but like Matt Ryan came in and just owned the offensive meeting room and like he's just stepped in right away and and that fast, quick release is gonna be huge. Carson Carson Wentz made football so much harder than it needed to be last year. Like he had a beast in the backfield, Jonathan Taylor, and he has a beast in the outside and Michael Pittman, and like Carson's gotta hold onto the ball and he's gotta wait and wait and wait and try to make this heroic play and sometimes he does. But like Matt Ryan is going to be the opposite in terms of efficiency, and I think it's I think it's gonna work like now, hem Hines told a reporter a couple of weeks ago, like Matt's gonna make the layups. Like that's a telling quote. Like he Hines is a really good playmaker, and they just forgot about him last year because Carson stopped throwing to him. And so I think Matt Ryan's gonna run the offense Frank Reich once and I think it's gonna be a lot more efficient, maybe a little bit less splash then Carson. But like I feel like it's just a if it's like a perfect glove. You know, check with me in Octobe. I might look like an idiot. I would ask you this then, because you're right. Um, on this show a couple of months ago, we went through all the quotes about Matt Ryan and they are glowing. Does not do service for what they are. I mean, they're it's almost like I'm not even asking these questions either. Sometimes they just say them, they're offering them up and it's so glowing and so gushing that I I all I would ask is if you're Jim or Say, and you're hearing all this information, We've got our guy, We've got Peyton manning the leader. Um, Matt Ryan can still play. It's such an upgrade. We gave you what you wanted. Now if you're Jimmer, say, and because the culture seems really good inside team walls, I mean Chris Ballard, everyone views them as a top flight GM. We all love Frank Reich. But if they go and win nine games, Um, is there a scenario where the pressure inside this building turns up higher than people expected? Yeah? Yeah, it needs to one playoff appearance since Andrew Look retired zero playoff wins, and they've had some good teams, Like I'll give them credit, like it was a stunning retirement. It was a story work like a lot of teams would have created, right, I mean they just would have. They didn't, But they also haven't won enough. And Ursay's pissed man like versas pissed, like he ripped into his scouts and his staff when they lost the Titans last year two in a row, Like they can't beat verybel in the Titans and the and the Titans took a step back on paper. But I'm a little hesitant to count them out because Rabel is so good and he gets as most out of his roster is just about anybody and the Cults have just found a way to shrink in those moments against that team. So they've got to win the a f C South and if they don't, you know, Rik and Ballod are on these extensions through like twenty six. But you know they they Andrew Luck get out of jail free card is over. Like it's done, Like there's no more leniency with that. They need to win. They screwed up with the Carson Wentz trade. They got out of it miraculously, like the move Ballad made getting to like come on, like that's the same. But they gotta win, man, They need to be playing into January this year for sure. One one thing he said, Zack that makes me wonder about this franchise, especially coming off the Luck discussion, right was they didn't have a plan right, and then the Deshawn's circumstance happens and they wind up with Matt Ryan. But this continues to happen to this franchise where they're in a situation where they don't have a plan, they wing it and they make it work. What needs to change for them to have a consistent plan, not just at the position, but maybe let's say they do eventually find the universe hands them another generational quarterback. What's it gonna take for them to have a plan the next time. I can't wait for you to listen to the podcast because we've been asking Ballad of this question for three years and and at one point he just kind of lost it and he goes, look, everybody wants me to pick a quarterback, but if you rush into it and pick the wrong guy, everyone's gonna run my ass out of town. And he's right, So like, maybe winging it is a little bit of a stretch because they haven't panicked right. They haven't had a good draft pick, like they just haven't. Like they traded one first round pick for the Force Buckner. You can't really knock him for that. He's a monster. You can knock come for the Carson Wentz try. They didn't have a first round pick this year, so they've just tried to fix the whole without making it worse long term, and they're not gonna jump until they're ready to jump. They need to find a long term guy. But Matt Ryan's here for two years and and urstays Ursay is thinking three or four now. He's an optimist, And I don't know about that. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. But if this goes well this year, there's no reason why this can't be a two to three year thing. And that gives them some time to find the next guy. But like Ballard said, like they're living like the other half of the world now. They don't have a top pick with Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. And this is what everyone else in the NFL has to do unless you're the Green Bay Packers. Well but but the green Bay Package used to be run by Ron Wolf and and Ted Thompson had the same philosophy as Ron Wolf when he took over, which was take a quarterback every single year. It's like, you can start doing that and you don't have to take him in the first round. Take us, take a third, take a second, take a six. Maybe it's not and they've taken a couple of eight rounds, but just like younger j Seahawks, now I get it. It's like, but you can try, and I think they need to keep trying during the Matt r And era. But I'm optimistic. I actually noticed they're they're over underwind. Total moved up to ten to the the optimism for the Colts is nationwide, only five teams in the NFL have a higher UH over underwin total. Now they're tied at ten with like six or seven teams are are right at ten. But that that's telling to me. The schedule plays a big part of that. I'm sort of on that train to the off season, so damn long that we start going against the opinions we had. Initially I was I was like, actually, the culture after isn't as good as it used to be. Let's not get too carried away. But now I'm back on the Colts train. The secondary feels like it's totally boom or bust, but they feel like they should be the favorites, and I think they have a chance to to win some playoff games this year. Yeah. I mean, like the last time they played football was atrocious. Was one of the worst losses I've ever seen watching this team thirty years. I mean, the way they laid down in Jacksonville. So yeah, I mean, you're add in cock Way and that's the one thing this defense really they needed a pass rusture and got ways probably just Pencilimon for ten sacks. They had a Gilmore in the back end. Can he still play. I think so. Um Darius Leonard's a question mark though, because he's coming off this weird back surgery that's supposed to alleviate pain in his ankle. And I mean he was he was a freak last year, Like he had like fifteen turnovers by himself, but he was playing on one leg. And this ankle thing keeps being an issue. And that's mean he's the best player besides Jonathan Taylor. So I don't know. I think that's the fun part about training camp is like we don't know, and this team could be like seven wins and they could be like twelve wins. Yeah, and we will be tracking it all it's happened. I've kept everyone too long. You know, Cleveland's guy, his son is running around the room. My kids are now, Zach's it's dinner time in Indianapolis. Uh, what a lovely boy there in mine, like two minutes from barging in. So so we we should take off, Um, Zack, thank you for joining us again. The series luck, Uh it's all six episodes are out. You can find it wherever you get your podcast feeds. And uh, like we've got the lovely Clay both both Clay Brown kids are here. Thank you Patrick as well. Why don't we all say goodbye together? Just say goodbye thanks Zach. Thanks, We get, we get, we get the kids on the mic here though, there we go again. That was Zach key for mark U. I said, like, maybe we'll do minutes today. We don't have that much to talk about, and now it's like an hour ten. I believe you know what. It's because we enjoy um the roles that we play. I'll say it that way. Why make it forty minutes when we can make it sixty four minutes? So I just wanted to jump in to point out that Zach said good point mark or great point mark three times and realized I was thinking you might because great point I think. I think anyone that's listening to I mean, he listens a little bit, he probably knows that's the quickest way to curry favor with them, at least one person on the panel here. So don't hit that mute button. Claibon is hitting the mute button with the kids around. Um. Thanks to everyone. This is a sloppy show. That's what happens when uh, when Dan is gone. Dan will be back next week. He'll still be in Jersey, but I'll be back in l A. And we are getting closer to all being back in the studio. I'm not sure if it's gonna be Monday or Tuesday. We we will find out then, but I believe we'll have a Monday show. Claibon, we haven't seen you in like a months. It was nice. Nice to see you. I hope you've had a nice summer. I see they're working pretty hard though. Uh, you know, it's Uh, it's good to be wanted. You're you're like doing some good morning football stuff. Is that? Is that the Yeah? Coming up next week, I'll be playing the Will Sellver role. Uh. If if I get to go in, we get some pending tests. Okay, Okay, that's that's Things don't change. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Uh. Until then, for Mark Sesler, Justin Graver, Patrick Clay von Key for I'm Greg Rosenthal. See you next week, he'd the call. In one of the more shocking happenings in the NFL's recent history, Andrew Luck announces his retirement from the NFL. The Colt superstar quarterback, announcing that injuries have taken the love from the game for him. So, a man who's turning thirty years old on September twelve, met with Colts owner Jim Ursay earlier Saturday to explain his decision. And Dan Hanz is the Around the NFL podcast, presented by Sirius XM, joined by Mark Sessler, Chris Westling, and Greg Rosenthal. Uh and Boys. This is an absolute bombshell um that changes the complexion of the Colts. Obviously, with the a f C and west Luck, nobody knew this was coming. This is this. We were at Patrick Clay buns um uh shrimp boil in fact, in the middle of a cornhole game, and everyone was just dumbfounded, founded. And you could say the same thing about everyone else connected to football. Andrew Luck done at age twenty nine in the NFL. When you're recording the show what thirty six hours later, You're reacting to so much more than just the news. You're reacting to the reaction. You're reacting to what you should have seen for three years, considering the comments he's made and just looking doing the research on what he said over the last few years. This is every bit as much of a mental health issue as a as a pain issue. As a physical issue. As Jim Ursay said in two thousand seventeen, it's about the four inch field between Andrew, lux Ears and URSTA. Took a lot of crap for that from people who didn't know what they were talking about, assumed they did from the outside looking in. But in lux own we're he is referred to the dark place, not a fun world to live in, Scared to my core, a low point, miserable, s o B. I withdrew, my life was empty, I have shame. I don't know about my worth as a human. I'm weathered and less naive. And then at the press conference, he said, this is the only way I see out of it, and out of it is the severe depression and identity crisis that he's been going through for three years. And he said that already a weight had been lifted. And even though the press conference