Behind the Scenes Minis: Rose and Mamie

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday and Holly Fry and I'm Tracy B. Wilson. We talked about Rose Mackinburgh this week. We did I'm so glad that you picked her, because I had her on my list a while ago, some years ago, and at that point I really struggled finding information and moved on to other things. And yet here she's back. She's back. Yeah. It's one of those things where you do have to piece together a lot of disparate newspaper accounts and whatnot, but it's so fun. Um. There's an interesting side story that I did. It didn't feel right to include in Rose's story about Madame Marcia, who we mentioned during those those Senate committee hearings, and she had been very entwined with the Harding White House uh and said that she had predicted um Harding selection and some other stuff. But what was very there is a creepy note in here, which is that during all of this conflict that was going on around whether or not fortune telling and psychic consultations were going to be outlawed in Washington, d C. Madam Marcia predicted that Houdini would be dead by November, and he died on October thirty one of that year, so it made her definitely looked like she was at least a good guess er. I'm not laughing that he died, obviously, but it was a it's it's one of those good like who moments in the midst of a lot of people yelling at each other. Uh during a Senate committee hearing. I also couldn't find verification of it, but I did like the quote that I came across where Rose once claimed in the press that because of her there had been a million dollars worth of lawsuits against Tu Deanie of people that were trying to sue them for having been exposed and deprived of their income, which is a lot of money in the nineteen twenties. UM, very very interesting. Her description of gross men is gross. Let me just say up front, I don't think anyone should accept that kind of behavior. I'm not saying that in saying how much I admire her ability to be like this is absolutely gross, and I feel like I'm gonna barth, but I really need to get evidence, so I'm going to keep going. Uh. She had bravado in abundance is what I will say. Yeah. Yeah. I also I like how much care she took the point out like this is not about people's religious beliefs, It is about people defrauding other people, which is like, that's something that I've run into a bunch of my own life, having worked as a massage therapist, which is a field that attracts people who may have like really sincerely held spiritual beliefs or beliefs in various alternative forms of treatment and things like that, and like walking the line between respecting people's beliefs but also seeing when people are taking advantage of somebody who was grieving or somebody who is very ill, and and the medical industry is not helping them but also selling them a bunch of fake supplements to make moneys, also not helping them. Yeah yeah, I mean it really stood out to me, and we mentioned it in the episode. You know that one of her earliest investigations, like she was basically like presenting herself to that particular medium as a woman whose baby had died just weeks earlier, and his behavior was I'm going to try to get you to undress, and I just it's so gross to know that he would do that to someone who was genuinely in an emotionally vulnerable point in their lives. It makes me want to hiss at the very most minor response. Um, it's so gross, And I do like that she pointed out how to hurt. Some of these moments were funny, but then she remember like, no, this could happen to someone who's really genuinely experiencing what I am claiming to experience, and then it becomes very tragic and upsetting. Um, that seems to be something that um, you know, Houdini also did, and she carried on in their work which after he was gone, which I have immense respect for. Right to remember, it's not just your experience. You're doing this because there are people who need that help who are not, you know, fortunate enough to necessarily have have been exposed to all of the information that you have, or you know. She mentions at some point, like people who are very poor and desperate are most at risk because they just don't they don't have the resources to to know that these people are frauds, or they are in such financial ruin that they're a little bit blinded to what the possibilities are in terms of people defrauding them. Um, it's very noble. But she is also very funny, which I love. I love her thing of like everybody seemed so happy and there afterlife that wasn't real. But it's not very nice to me, right, Do any of my fictional children miss me? Oh, she's very funny. It's very very funny. I really like her a bunch. I wish I wish I couldn't find any evidence that any version of her unpublished book manuscript exists anywhere. If it does, if it ever turns up, I'm going to devour that thing because you know it would be hilarious as well as very cool. Um, and probably not very flattering to a lot of people love Rose Rose. I didn't mean to, but we do have a lot of Houdini content going off because I have some more coming. I don't know if it'll be part of our October stuff or not. Um, But you know, he was an important and pivotal figure in the Spiritualist movement because of his work against these sort of fraudulent folks. And I like the fact that he liked Rose is like no, I would love to believe I would love to find proof. I want that comfort as much as anybody. I just haven't found it. Um, which is nice Udini Rose Mecenburg and Madam Marcia, who also would be an interesting subject maybe in the future, Tracy. This week we got to talk to the people that made Till Yes, Um, which was really really a delight for me. Um. I mean when I love talking to people, But two, I might have a lady crush on ch know you. I just think she's incredibly gifted. And and also I mean when you hear her speak about how she makes films, she's clearly just so smart about it. And I loved the way she talked about she does all of her technical planning ahead of time so that she can just be present on the day. And I think that is a brilliant way to live your life if you're doing creative projects. So, Um, I thought it was astonishing. But you and I both were lucky enough to get to see the film even before it came out in limited release. Yeah, Um, and I was legitimately completely blown away by how good it is. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's extremely well done. There were I think you and I were each at a media screening with a handful of other people, and even though there were I think fewer than ten people in the auditorium with me, it was clear I think everybody was familiar with like the basics of the story, but also there were people who clearly weren't aware of a lot of the aftermath. Uh as a lot of films of this nature do. At the end, there are some like title cards that say things that happened later, and there were just like audible explanation exclamations at a few of them. We also have a little fire alarm in the middle of ours, which has nothing to do with the movie itself. Um, something folks might not know is that this film was in the works forever, a very long time. I mean I talked a little bit with she know you about that, but she came in pretty late, even in that whole game, because you had mentioned that you had back to Kickstarter for it even way before that. Yeah, I backed to Kickstarter for it in so more than seven years ago, because that Kickstarter funded in something like August or September, I think, and I like the things on Kickstarter that that takes so long, like they evolve over time, and films evolve over time. So there were various things along the way where there would be updates that would be sort of about like announcements of people who were going to be involved with the film, and like over time that that has all changed. But something that was consistent from the very beginning was that one of the people who was involved with it heavily from the beginning was one of Emmett's cousins who witnessed everything that happened in Money, Mississippi, Um Simeon Wright, who actually passed away a couple of years. Oh, but it was like a consultant on the film up until his death, and UM like the way the Kickstarter characterized things included like his extensive involvement. So I think whenever there's a film like this it's about something really traumatic for a family, there are questions that people have that are like what, okay, well, how does the family feel about this? And at least in terms of of mtt's cousin, I mean, you can't speak for everybody who knows, but like there was family involvement, like from the beginning, going back for years, UM wanting this story to be shared in this format. Yeah, I mean it's um. We both discussed afterwards too, And it came up in my interview like this is when that I think we were both a little bit scared of just because it is so dark, and I don't think either of us wanted to see the violence being per portrayed. Um, because it's just a lot. We don't need more images of that. And like I said, it came up in my in my chat with Tonnoyance specifically, um, and I came away sort of in shock at how incredibly deftly this very difficult material was handled in a way that is still has incredible gravity and you still feel the pain of it. But it isn't it would have been so easy for this movie too shock us with the visuals of what was going on and the violence that happened against Emmett in a way that I think would have left us a little unable to process the rest of the movie. Yeah, Um, which is not that if you are afraid of seeing that police know, if you didn't already figure that out from from our our Wednesday episode, that is, that is not what you get out of this. There are some very difficult images in it, but the way it's handled is just so careful and smart. Yeah, and I was just like I said, I was blown away by the skill of the filmmaking. Yeah. So the photographs that that Mami had taken of Emmett's body after his death are such a central part of that whole story and of her story and of the civil rights movement as it evolved after that, that, in my opinion, like leaving out that depiction would have been weird and jarring. But also she's talked a lot about Tonnoia has talked a lot about making like the conscious choice not to have a depiction of the actual lynching as it happened, which I also felt like it was a really thoughtful decision about how how to portray all this. Yeah. Um, I also had a moment one I'm and I will I'm very superstitious about things like this, so I I don't want to say anything specific, but I literally came out of this movie going, They're going to be a lot of mentions of this during Awards season. I don't know how they won't. But actually they also wanted to say on a slightly later note, which obviously is not to make light of the story at all, is that, um, I have to give Hayley Bennett props for taking the role of Caroline Bryant, because that is a person that it is very easy to dislike, and her portrayal is very good and makes it very very easy to see how manipulative of the truth she was. Um, I mean, the good news is she doesn't look like her normal self very much in the film, so hopefully no one will see her in the street and have a gut reaction of um. And if you you may remember, I spoke with Haley when we did our syran No coverage and she was super delightful, So um yeah, I mean, she's just a delightful person and I really love talking to her. And I didn't know she was gonna be in this role then, but yeah, like that is a brave role to take because that's not just taking a villain role. That is taking a really I don't know if revilable is the word, but it is today. Um yeah, that's not a not not someone you would really want to be associated with. And she does a really good job. Wow. Jaln Hall is charming. I'll just say that again. He's so good in the movie and he I spoke with him about it during our interview. But it's really beautiful to see that that more joyous aspect of who Emmett Till was. Obviously what happened to him is super important, but that's not his whole life story. And so it was really nice to see, you know, that relationship with him and Mami and the joy that they shared together. And I was very grateful to have an actor who was able to do that so beautifully. It's hard. Historical stuff is hard. This is one of those things, though. I know you and I have talked about historical films in the past, and we often walk away and go, well, they sure did play around with some stuff. I did not feel like that at all, know and having researched our episode on it and having made some similar decisions about like where to place the focus in the episode, because I thought it was a really important episode for us to do, but I also didn't want it to be exploitive in anyway. I remembered a lot of the details and things would happen in the film that I would be like, that is exactly how we understand that that happened. Yeah, um, anyway, uh, yeah. We don't do a lot of of a lot a movie coverage on the show. Like when we did See You. No, we did that as a bonus episode. But this movie is um so tied to how much you know to the kinds of themes that we talked about in a piece of history we have discussed on the show that I felt pretty comfortable using it as a regular episode because it is interesting to also just hear how other people interpret and and visit that history and how they talk about it and um and share it and retell it in a way that is um that feels to me very important. Like I feel like this is a film that could be shown in history classes and I wouldn't feel the least bit like, oh, they're not really getting an accurate portrayal of what happened. That's not gonna happen with this one. So that's kind of why we were pretty comfortable slotting it in a regular Wednesday slot. Uh. If you see it, I hope you are as moved by it as I was. Um. I think I saw it with four other people and there was one woman in our screening. She left for a little while in the middle. Um, I think it was just a lot understandably, and then when she came back. There were a few times where I thought I could hear her kind of sniffling and possibly sobbing, And it took every part of my will not to try to go comfort her because she might not want that and that might be weird, but I wanted to. The impulse was there, so be ready for that. But it is so beautiful. I hope nobody skips it. Uh, that's the scoop. If you are headed into your weekend, that's a great time to go see a movie or whatever it is that you need to do, to take care of yourself and get some rest and relaxation. If you have responsibilities cropping up this weekend and it's not necessarily a time of rest and relaxation, I hope all of those responsibilities are easily managed and you can tick off your list and maybe squeeze in a little time for yourself. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on Monday you will have another brand new one. We'll see you right back here. Stuff you missed in History Class is a party suction of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H.