AvTalk Episode 195: Boeing gets an early Christmas gift

AVT 195 Transcript
EPISODE 195
[EPISODE]
[0:00:07] IP: Hello and welcome to Episode 195 of AvTalk. This is only the 950th time we tried to
get this intro right. I'm here, as always with –
[0:00:19] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. That was a much more assertive intro this time. Thank you.
[0:00:22] IP: It’s the end of the year.
[0:00:25] JR: We have no care left to give.
[0:00:27] IP: We literally tried to get that intro what for? This was the third time.
[0:00:30] JR: Third time.
[0:00:31] IP: We did it okay.
[0:00:31] JR: Not that bad. Third time.
[0:00:32] IP: We made it and we're here. How are you, Jason?
[0:00:35] JR: I'm good. I am back in New York. I even popped into our office for probably the
last time today. I believe, today's the shortest daylight day of the year.
[0:00:45] IP: It is.
[0:00:45] JR: I am depressed, but things are looking up as of tomorrow.
[0:00:50] IP:  Yeah, the days are going to get longer.
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AVT 195 Transcript
[0:00:52] JR: Not until a massive storm absolutely obliterates winter travel for pretty much
everyone in the US.
[0:00:58] IP: Yeah. Before we talk about that, let's talk about last week's travel. Because you
said, you're back in New York. Where did you go?
[0:01:06] JR: I was in the one, the only St. Maarten. I phoned it in quite literally last week. I
came back on Saturday, which happened to be the first day of daily winter operations down to
St. Maarten. Let me tell you, Ian, that place was a zoo coming home.
[0:01:26] IP: You sent me a photo, I believe, of the departure hall and it looked packed.
[0:01:30] JR: St. Maarten’s airport, they are still rebuilding after the hurricane in 2017-2018. It's
been a while. I don't remember exactly what year it was. I mean, it's very much still a temporary
operation in the terminal building, at least now. Thankfully, they're not intense anymore. They
have, I think, really realistically, six or seven, functional gates. They're all hard stands. When our
flight went out, it happened to be the peak when there were just a bunch of flights going out to
the US. It was overwhelmingly overcrowded, like nothing I've experienced before.
Like I mentioned, this was the first Saturday, where a lot of airlines rolled their schedule over
from a Saturday-only schedule to a daily operation. A lot of airlines were starting their service at
all for the season that time of year. I think, Spirit from Fort Lauderdale, that was their first flight
of the season, I believe. It was just overwhelming, I'll put it.
[0:02:23] IP: Yeah, the photo showed quite a number of fine people. I believe that the photo you
sent me was just after your flight had been delayed. One of the gentlemen in the photo was less
than enthusiastic about that information.
[0:02:40] JR: I flew in on JetBlue on all economy A321, which is fine, except the Wi-Fi was out
of coverage for the whole flight and the seatback entertainment did not work at all. But it was a
fine flight. I came prepared with my own entertainment. That was a seven-year-old aircraft. It
had not held up well. It was beat up, things were rundown. It just generally looked like JetBlue
had not given that aircraft more than two hours on the ground at any point in the last seven
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years. Not great. The flight back was on a nearly 31-year-old Delta 757-200. Although that
aircraft is 31-years-old, it is Delta's 30th oldest aircraft, I think. I think it was the 30th aircraft. But it
still looks brand-new on the interior.
They have done such a remarkable job refurbishing those aircraft repeatedly. It was just a really
nice ride, once I actually got onboard the aircraft. There's a funny story about that, which I guess
I should tell, huh?
[0:03:39] IP: Yeah. I mean, feel free.
[0:03:44] JR: Very limited connectivity in St. Maarten in the airport. You get 30 minutes of free
Wi-Fi and then you're cut off. It's like, it’s got to be one of the last airports in the world that still
charges for Wi-Fi at all. We're all waiting at the boarding gate. It's getting really hot, really
crowded. A bunch of people in wheelchairs, ready to go at the boarding door and we wait, we
wait, we wait. The flight to Atlanta, also on an elderly 757 starts boarding to our left and they
announced our flights has gone contact. There's a maintenance issue. They'll get back to us in
the dreaded 15 minutes, which is never 15 minutes, which is that's the next time you'll get an
update.
I happen to spy the pilots that actually came in on that 757, who were loitering around waiting
for a ride back to Atlanta and I walked over to them and said, “Hey, guys. What's going on with
this aircraft?” They said, “Well, how much do you know about airplanes?” I said, “Well, hit me
with whatever you got.” They told me, they got a message on the screen that they had never
seen before, “Stab Trim issue.” Stabilizer trim, which basically means that one of the systems
that automatically controls the horizontal stabilizer had an issue and they weren't sure whether
they could defer that issue and deal with it back at JFK after the flight, or if that's something they
would have to attend to there at St Maarten, which could be problematic, because there were a
number of aircraft with mechanical issues there at that time.
Another American one from Miami, a 737 had mechanical issues. That whole week was just
plagued with aircraft on ground issues, St. Maarten. JetBlue had a flight delayed overnight
there. They had to fly in an A320 from Fort Lauderdale. Then the next day’s flight went out to the
runway and went back to the gate. I don't know what was going on in St Maarten, but a lot of
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broken airplanes. I asked the pilots, “What would you do? Should I move over to this Atlanta
flight, connect there to JFK, or should I wait this one out?” They didn't really have an answer,
because they didn't know if they could defer this, or if they were going to have to repair it.
I paid for the Wi-Fi, got a prompt on the Delta app right away, saying, “Hey, we found some
alternative flights for you.” One of the options was – really the only option was get on the Atlanta
flight, connect there and get to JFK around midnight. I said, “You know what? I won't gamble it.
I'll switch to the Atlanta flight. Connect to JFK. If I missed that connection, whatever. I'll deal with
that in Atlanta. I'd rather be stranded overnight in Atlanta, then have to find a hotel with very
limited availability in St. Maarten.”
I clicked it. It confirmed. Great, we got new seats. Then I looked at the details and saw that it
was for the next day, which is not great when you're already at the airport looking to get out. I
take full responsibility for not quite reading the details enough. My feedback for Delta would be
that if you're providing alternative options for travelers, if the flight that they're looking at
alternatively is a different day, it needs to be explicitly clear. There should even be a warning
saying like, “Hey, you're changing your day of travel to the following day.” Because it was the
same exact flight. The flight that was to Atlanta was boarding to my left. I thought I was going to
just rebook that, take two steps to my left and that board that flight immediately. But it was the
next day. Not great.
The app would not let me look back to the JFK flight. No one at St. Maarten at the gate was
willing to help me. Most of the help there is outsourced to signature air services and they're all
contracted out. They had no time to deal with that, nor did they want to go out of their way.
There I am calling over the Wi-Fi the Delta reservations desk, which did pick up rather quickly. I
think only a few minutes and I explained my situation, they go, “Oh, okay, I see.” They put me on
hold. Then finally, I was able to find the one lone Delta actual employee at the gate. Jermaine,
thank you, again, who after a bit of scolding me about being more careful with my rebooking
options, went clicky, clicky, clicky on the keyboard and 30 seconds later, problem solved. I was
back on the flight and boarded immediately. After that, they started boarding the JFK flight. That
was fun. I'm going to be more careful the next time that happens.
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[0:07:46] IP: I want to Jason to tell the story, not because I wanted to embarrass him on
recording, because he never listens to the podcast.
[0:07:52] JR: Go on anyway. Done.
[0:07:53] IP: He won't know if anyone laughs at this particular misfortune. I wanted him and tell
his story, because yeah, I think it's a good point that if you're rebooking – because I like to think
of Jason, generally as relatively smart human being.
[0:08:08] JR: Well, thank you.
[0:08:10] IP: As someone who deals with these types of apps and websites and read bookings
and things like that on a regular basis, I trust if you're having an issue, you're probably not the
only one.
[0:08:23] JR: Yeah. I happen to take a screenshot of the confirmation page as it was loading,
because then on the Wi-Fi that was shaky, and I wanted to make sure I had it. It does say in the
little tab above the actual flight information like, Sunday, December 18th, or whatever. But it's
small. It's very easy to miss. Yeah, word of caution for anyone who finds themselves in that
situation. Not a problem for me. We would’ve booked a hotel in St. Maarten. Not the end of the
world. Not the worst place in the world to get stranded. If it happens to me, I'm sure it will
happen to someone else, if it hasn't already happened before and I'm sure it has.
[0:09:00] IP: There you go. Let's move on to, well, I guess it wasn't bad news, because
everything worked out in the –
[0:09:05] JR: Yeah, it was great. We were only two and a half hours late. No big deal.
[0:09:10] IP: There you go. Let's move on to elsewhere. I guess, first to Washington State,
where we have good news, but bittersweet is still, I guess. I'm still processing this, Jason.
[0:09:22] JR: Where are we going with this? I don't even know what we're talking about.
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[0:09:26] IP: Sure, you do. It's written on the – It’s on the list.
[0:09:28] JR: You skipped over winter is coming.
[0:09:31] IP: Oh, I did. I did.
[0:09:33] JR: See? It's not me. It's you.
[0:09:34] IP: Oh, man. This is the last podcast of the year is just –
[0:09:36] JR: Yeah, anything goes.
[0:09:38] IP: It's killing me, man. All right. Well, let's go back. Bad news first. Winter is coming.
Winter will have gotten here by the time the podcast comes out. As you listen to this, I hope you
are not traveling. If you are traveling, I am so very sorry. There is a very, very large winter storm
moving through the US, if you're traveling in the US, as you very well know, because you're
either comfortable at home, preparing for the weekend and perhaps a holiday. Or, you're stuck
at an airport listening to this going, “Guys, stop talking about this, because I hate my life right
now.”
The big winter storm is moving through. Desperately cold temperatures. Insanely high winds.
Everyone's getting their snowplows out, their salt spreaders, all that good fun stuff. When we
come back in January to talk about hopefully, we can say, “Oh, that was a whole big nothing.” In
Iceland, that has not been the case this week, where there was enough snow to close the roads
to and from the airport, which led to some very interesting things, including Icelandair operate
operating Reykjavik to Reykjavik 757 flights.
[0:10:41] JR: Yeah. I think, there was at least one 757. I know there were a few Dash 8 flights
as well. I think there's only one road between Reykjavik and way out to the airport. There's the
road to get there. Icelandair needed to get staff to the airport and from the airport, but with the
only road closed, they actually resorted to operating shuttle flights between Reykjavik and
Reykjavik. If you've ever seen the small downtown airport, RKV, you probably know that a 757
doesn't really – it physically fits there, but it is not a normal sight to behold there, especially in
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Icelandair 75. It's unfortunate that it came down to that, but really, really nice thinking on your
toes maneuver by Icelandair.
[0:11:24] IP: Yeah. I was pretty impressed that they managed to get the 7 – I mean, obviously
they can do it. It's within limits, but I was just really, I saw some pictures of it and I was like, it
just looks so out of place. Things seem to be moving in the right direction there. The roads are
being cleared. I mean, it was hundreds of flights canceled. Snow everywhere. Not a great time.
I'm hoping that we avoid that this weekend.
[0:11:46] JR: Yeah, 12-minute flight time between the two airports, by the way. They basically
made a right turn immediately after departure. Made a straight line and made a left turn and that
was their final approach turn for RKV. Not a very complicated flight, but probably pretty busy for
the flight crew. That's a lot of checklists in a very short time. Do you think they even retracted
the gear? They must have, right? They had to have.
[0:12:08] IP: Yeah, probably.
[0:12:10] JR: Yeah, probably. Okay. That's fun.
[0:12:11] IP: Yeah, I wonder. We'll see if we can find out whether or not the gear came up.
Okay, now we can move on to the other stuff. This was the first flight of the last produced 747
over the weekend. It came up over the weekend and spotters flocked to Paine field, to try and
get a photo, and our good friend Jeremy Dwyer-Lindgren was among them and was able to –
Those are on the flightradar24 Twitter feed we shared them on, and you can check those out.
Some really good dramatic weather photos, I guess. Not just clear, blue sky. Though planes are
nice to look at. I always like when there's a bit of a background.
[0:12:51] JR: Yeah. Just not all just blue, or all white, or anything. Some variation in the
background is nice. Again, this was disappointingly the first flight of the last 747. Nothing they
published. No images. They made no to do about it. Again, it's like they want – They didn't even
publish a flight plan well ahead of time. Usually, spotters have a good heads up that something
is going to happen. This one went out quite sneakily. I don't think it went out to Moses Lake like
it was actually filed, it came back to Paine Field rather quickly.
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Again, I just find it very strange that there's just not much to do about the last 747, doing things,
like rolling out of the factory and first flight for the last time. These are all things that I would
expect to see imagery put out by Boeing, and it's just not much.
[0:13:38] IP: Yeah, yeah. Maybe they're saving it all for the delivery.
[0:13:42] JR: It's possible. Fingers crossed that there's just a big celebration that we're not
invited to for the delivery of this aircraft.
[0:13:50] IP: Bummer. Boeing, on the other hand, has received some good news this week.
[0:13:55] JR: Two bits of good news, not just one.
[0:13:57] IP: One very large bit of good news. The will they, won't they, seems to have been
answered about whether or not Boeing will get an extension to certify the 737-7 and Dash 10
MAX, without a new crew alerting system that has been filed in the omnibus bill is basically, if it's
in this bill, it has to pass compendium of legislation. That is going up to a vote on Thursday, I
believe, barring any changes. At this point, it would be extremely surprising if this somehow
didn't happen. It looks like Boeing is set to get its extension to certify the MAX 7 and 10, and
then eventually go back and retrofit all of the aircraft with the new systems that have been
developed for the MAX 10, which include the stick shaker and the third angle of attack sensor.
[0:15:03] JR: Yes. That's all part of the Cantwell bill, I guess, or the amendment, or whatever
we want to call this, that it is not just a blanket extension, as I believe some of the Republican
delegation wanted earlier. This is more of, we're going to approve this, but you have to make it
right. You have to do these things. You have to pay for it, if you want it to get done. We talked
about this a few weeks ago. my Comments, were no notes. My comment continues to be, no
notes. Well done.
[0:15:29] IP: There you go.
[0:15:29] JR: Just pass the damn thing.
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[0:15:31] IP: Yeah, so we can stop talking about it. The other bit of good news for Boeing is that
777X test flights have resumed. The flight test program was suspended. The last flight was
October 6th, and there was an engine issue. They took the engine of the wing. They sent it to
GE’s facility in Ohio. They said, something happened. We still don't know what exactly the issue
was. Whatever the issue, it’s either been understood and won’t happened again, or understood
and resolved. Because on December 17th, so a few days ago from today, they began flight tests
once again. They've flown a handful of times since then, and in fact, I believe are in the air as
we record right now.
[0:16:14] JR: Hey, that's good. We were afraid that this could be a very lengthy process to
figure out what happened and correct it. I guess, if they're flying, they're either testifying the fix,
or they've already fixed it, which is great news for an aircraft that really needs less bad news.
[0:16:30] IP: Yeah, yeah. Hopefully, things continue to look up for the 777X. Also, looking up as
far as getting guidance, the European Union Aviation Safety Agency has proposed the rule for
certifying the Airbus A321XLR. We talked a lot about the A321XLR last week, including our
interview with the Airbus flight test engineer about their test flight and mentioned the FAA’s
certification issues as well. EASA coming out with some clear guidance saying, “You guys need
to make sure that if there's a crash, enough fuel will not spill to start a massive fire near the
engines on the wings.”
[0:17:15] JR: Once again, no notes. That’s a good policy.
[0:17:19] IP: Plan. Good way to say things. They will do that, or the aircraft won't get certified at
this point, is basically how things are looking. Still waiting on a final ruling on that, but that is the
certification proposal from EASA. Earlier this week, a Hawaiian Airlines A330, operating from
Phoenix to Honolulu, suffered what can only be described as wow, that's bad turbulence. It's not
necessarily the standard classification, working our way from light chop to severe turbulence,
but it was very, very not good. 36 people were injured. 20 were taken to hospital. A few were
seriously injured, including, I believe a few members of the cabin crew. Hopefully, they're all
recovering nicely. Just some real, real violent, vertical movement from the aircraft about 30
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minutes before landing. They were cruising at 40,000 feet, and they went up 300 and then down
800.
[0:18:30] JR: That'll ruin your day. Of course, we will reiterate as always, as everyone always
does, wear your seatbelt whenever you're seated, even if the seatbelt sign is not illuminated. It's
for your own safety, not just because the crew likes repeating it over and over. Really, I guess
unfortunate timing, because 30 minutes is right about that point, where the flight crew is
probably just about ready to turn on the seatbelt sign and when everyone was getting up to use
the lavatory one last time for after a long flight from the – I think it was from the West Coast was
it? It an LA flight?
[0:19:03] IP: Phoenix.
[0:19:03] JR: Phoenix flight. It's the West Coast. It's a long fight. People are just getting up to
use the lav for the last time. If this was five or 10 minutes later, the seatbelt sign probably would
have been on and people would have been already buckled in. Really, really unfortunate timing
here. Once again, can't stress enough, always wear your seatbelt even when you're seated. You
can't go wrong with that.
[0:19:23] IP: Yeah, exactly. That time is always such a weird time when you're packing your
things up that you've had at your seat if you've had your laptop out, you're putting it away and
everyone's getting up to use the lab and all sorts of stuff before they begin their descent. The
incident is and was bad enough that the NTSB is investigating to see what happened and to
learn from that. I honestly don't remember the last time the NTSB investigated a turbulence
related incident, where there wasn't an aircraft defect component included.
[0:19:57] JR: Yeah, I do wonder what exactly it is they're investigating, or expecting to find,
other than playing was bouncy and people hit the ceiling. I'm sure there will be some interesting
insights. Maybe there's some recommendations on materials onboard, or something like that on
how they can lessen the impact of injuries in extreme turbulent situations. I would read that
report. Yeah, very interesting to see them interested in this incident.
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[0:20:24] IP: Yeah, yeah. We'll definitely have to keep an eye on what that report eventually
says. I don't know if they'll make a full report. I'm not sure in this type of event how that all works
out.
[0:20:37] JR: Maybe some NTSB investigators just wanted to go to Hawaii for Christmas. I don't
know.
[0:20:41] IP: Yeah, I don't know if they traveled – I mean, I don't know if they traveled to Hawaii.
Interesting theory, Jason. Interesting theory. Let's stay in Hawaii and talk about some news,
well, from the NTSB this week. The investigation into the Trans Air 737-200 ditching into a bay, I
believe it was 50 miles south of Hawaii. It departed, lost both engines and couldn't make it back
to Honolulu. The NTSB updated the docket this week with information that includes the
interviews with the flight crew, as well as some other factual information.
This is not a final report. They have not reached the conclusions about why the engines did
what they did, or made any recommendations based on the crew’s actions. Reading through the
docket, it's clear that the two pilots were somewhat confused about which engine had actually
failed at which time and how much thrust the aircraft had available.
[0:21:51] JR: Yeah, it looked like the pilot flying asked the first officer, which issue is
experiencing the issue and he replied, and I'm reading this off of Flight Global, who put up an
article with the transcript and he said, “Number two and apparent reference to the right hand
powerplant.” The captain also said number two. Following that, there was some back and forth
where the captain responded, is number one is gone, as a question. The first officer responded,
“It's gone. Yup. So we have number two.” There's definitely some confusion about which engine
was out, though. NTSB doesn't come to this conclusion, but it doesn't appear as if there was an
incident where the flight crew turned off the incorrect engine, when one was experiencing issues
that apparently neither of these engines were switched off.
If you're thinking about an incident that may sound familiar, there was another airline that
actually has Trans in the name, that was Trans Asia, the ATR in Taiwan, I believe, where one of
the engines experienced an issue and the flight crew accidentally shut down the wrong engine,
and they ended up crashing into a river just shortly after takeoff with that wild dashcam video
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from a couple years ago. Doesn't seem to be exactly the same circumstances, because neither
of these engines were shut off. It does seem as if both failed for a reason. We don't know. There
was indeed some confusion in the flight deck about what exactly was going on. We look forward
to the final report issued by the NTSB, eventually. When they publish that, we will bring it to you.
[0:23:22] IP: Absolutely. Let's stick with regulatory and investigative things for the moment. This
one was flagged, I believe, by Seth Miller. He flagged IASA’s update on an airworthiness
directive for the A330neo engine, so the Rolls-Royce Trent 7000s. They need a software
update, as all things do these days. This software update ensures that the engine icing
protection stays working.
[0:23:54] JR: That's always helpful. The airworthiness directive reads, it has been determined
that engine crystal icing protection could be temporarily lost if an erroneous total pressure value
is provided by aeroplane systems. This condition if not corrected, could lead to dual engine in-
flight shutdown, resulting in reduced control of the airplane.
Again, if that sounds familiar, that would be a callback to the British Airways 777-200 at
Heathrow, which had a very similar incident, where there were some ice crystals built up in a
fuel filter. They had a dual engine flame out on very short final at Heathrow and then ended up
belly diving into the grass there. Thankfully, no one was significantly injured in that accident.
This airworthiness directive looks to prevent a very similar situation on the A330neo. I don't think
that problem was solvable by a software update on the 777. Fascinating to see that you plug a
USB cable, or whatever into the 330 here and you fix this potentially deadly issue.
[0:24:55] IP: You don't think they're using floppy disks on the A330neo?
[0:24:58] JR: I mean, it is just based off the A330CO, which is an aircraft from that era, so it's
possible, but I hope not. I hope not. There is an entire floppy disk industry based around the
aviation industry still using floppy disks. Anything is possible.
[0:25:17] IP: It tickles me every time I think about having to update navigation software on an
airplane and there's a guy walking around with a floppy. You can see the disk storage cabinet on
every flight deck. I just love it.
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[0:25:32] JR: There's somewhere, someone back in the 80s or 90s, who invested in floppy – 3
and a half inch floppy disks and dot matrix printers, who is making an absolute killing off the
travel industry right now.
[0:25:46] IP: Absolutely. The things that cannot be fixed by software include A380 wing spars.
Airbus has sent 60 engineers to Dubai, because as Emirates revives its A380 fleet, in some of
the older A380s, they're finding wing spar cracks that need to be repaired. Wing spar cracks in
the A380s are not new.
[0:26:08] JR: This is a very legacy problem for this aircraft.
[0:26:12] IP: This is one of those things, where you just throw people at it. In this case, Airbus
has sent 60 engineers to go live and work in Dubai to solve the problem, while Emirates bring
brings its A380 fleet back. I guess, at some point, any A380 issue is basically just an Emirates
issue. As we get further and further down the road and other airlines begin to retire the A380s
and Emirates keeps them around, just because they have so many. It'll be interesting to see
what happens there. Does Airbus just send a permanent contingent – you now work for Airbus
in Dubai and you just maintain the Emirates A380s?
[0:26:57] JR: Well, if there isn't already an Airbus UAE office, I'm sure there will be in the not
too distant future for this express reason.
[0:27:06] IP: Yeah, just AOG office. Okay, so now we get to the point where we can say, people
took airplanes home, or they are starting new routes. This week, Condor took delivery of its first
A330neo, the green beach towel livery, that was also the aircraft that not long ago, had an
unfortunate incident with the site of a building in Toulouse pre-delivery. Whatever the issue
ended up being there, and however serious it was, they repaired it pretty quickly.
[0:27:37] JR: All right. I guess, it was just damaged to the winglet, which happens more often
than you would think. You just pop it off, check for structural damage to the wing. If there isn't
any, you either leave the winglet off, or you pop a new one on and you're good to go.
[0:27:51] IP: They probably have a few sitting around in Toulouse, so that's good.
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[0:27:54] JR: Are they painted in green beach towel livery? I don't know. Are there winglets
painted at all, actually, on that particular – I don't know.
[0:28:02] IP: I don't know. That's a good question. I have to take a close – I don't know if I have
a photo with that resolution of just the winglet, but we'll take a look. Let's see, what else? The
first ARJ21-700 was delivered outside of China.
[0:28:16] JR: You know what? It's the first Comac aircraft period to be delivered outside of
China.
[0:28:21] IP: Well, there you go.
[0:28:23] JR: Not just the first ARJ21.
[0:28:25] IP: Even better. Indonesia's Transnusa Airlines –
[0:28:28] JR: A lot of airlines with the word trans in the name in this podcast.
[0:28:32] IP: Well, they go across. They're flying across things. Trans, etc. I don't know what
Nusa is. I get trans air, Trans Asia Air. That makes sense. We fly across Asia.
[0:28:44] JR: I don't even think they do that. I think they were just domestic Taiwan.
[0:28:47] IP: Well, there's that.
[0:28:49] JR: This airline is based in Jakarta, so it is possible that they –
[0:28:51] IP: I love a good aspirational airline name. They took delivery of the ARJ21. The
Comac regional jet thing.
[0:29:01] JR: Yeah, if you're not familiar, we'll paint the picture for you. The ARJ21 is definitely,
definitely completely homegrown, not stolen idea at all, hybrid between an MD80 and a
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AVT 195 Transcript
CRJ-700. It is a dead ringer for the freaky child of those two aircraft. Not commercially
successful though. I think we talked about this last week. It's more of a beta test for –
[0:29:26] IP: Not the point. Yup.
[0:29:27] JR: Comac, but it is interesting that this aircraft would be delivered outside of China at
all. I never really thought that would happen. It is particularly interesting, because this is not a
new airline. This airline has an existing fleet of Airbus aircraft, even an A320neo, in fact. It's at
least a little interesting that we're seeing an airline expand, breaking beyond Boeing and Airbus
and opting for a Comac aircraft, in this case, the ARJ21, rather than waiting for the C 919, which
I think is particularly interesting. We'll see how well China can support this aircraft outside of its
own boundaries. That was a big problem for the Russian built Sukhoi Superjet, which had even
less commercial success. That did get operated by Interjet in Mexico and CityJet for a host of
other airlines in Europe. it was commercially very unsuccessful, because they were just not able
to get the parts out for that aircraft.
Many of them were grounded for extended periods and cannibalized. It was just not good. In the
long-term, it will be interesting to see if Comac is able to support the ARJ21 outside of China.
Indonesia is a lot closer to China than Mexico was to Russia. It should be less of an issue, I
guess.
[0:30:48] IP: Hopefully, they've also learned a lesson in how not to support an aircraft. We'll see
the, how well the aircraft is received outside of China by other airlines. This isn't huge news, but
it's just a funky little thing that I wanted to flag. SAS is launching flights to Newark from Aalborg
and Gothenburg. Beginning in April, they will be, I think they're both three times weekly. In on
Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Out on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. They're all going to be
operated by the A321LR. This is in addition to SAS’s JFK standalone service, that they're
beginning, I think, near the end of the year.
[0:31:39] JR: Next February, I think. Or is it this year? I think it's next year, February.
[0:31:44] IP: Okay. We talked about it in the previous episode, so we should have that written
down somewhere. The JFK service standalone, this will be seasonal service, April through, I
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AVT 195 Transcript
believe, October. Basically, the summer season. Interesting. Secondary markets. I mean,
Sweden's second biggest city is Aalborg. Denmark’s second biggest city. We'll have the stats
desk check that out, which is to say, I'll Google it later.
[0:32:11] JR: Yes, SAS is definitely getting a little funky post-bankruptcy here with their 321s,
throwing some darts at the board to see what sticks. These are particularly interesting,
reminiscent of the nonsense that Norwegian tried pulling with its 737s back in the day,
transatlantic. This is definitely interesting. Not cities I had at all on my list that would get
transatlantic service to New York, especially these two particular cities were not – I don't think
on anyone's radar. If they're doing it, SAS must have the data to prove that there is demand for
it. Good luck to them.
I like this, because unlike with Norwegian, if there is any issue, if a flight is canceled, especially
a three-weekly flight, if your flight’s canceled, you're out of luck. This is a star airlines airline, so
if your flights canceled are significantly delayed, they’ll book you on Lufthansa, or something
else, somebody else, even Finnair, like I was rebooked.
[0:33:05] IP: Or you can take the daily 330 flight – Yeah, and just fly to either Stockholm, or
Copenhagen and connect with no problem. Yeah, a lot of backups.
[0:33:17] JR: Yeah, so it's interesting. I wonder if it will be successful. SAS does not have a lot
of 321neo LRs to play around with. I think they only have three. If they're doing this, they must
be, I'm not going to say desperate to find something to do with them. But I can imagine that
these two routes were at the top of the list of things to do with their precious few narrowbody
long haul aircraft.
[0:33:40] IP: We shall see. We shall see. Then finally, I guess some very good news, as far as
the Turkish air force is concerned, the two Turkish air force A400s that have been stuck in
Ukraine since basically, the eve of the Russian invasion, the 24th of February, they landed in
Kyiv and promptly got stuck there. They somehow remained either undamaged, or in good
enough shape that they were easily made flyable. The 20th of December, so day before
recording, they flew home.
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AVT 195 Transcript
[0:34:19] JR: Yeah. Not just flew home, but they did so at high altitude, at least that they're
30,000 feet when you posted the screenshots. They were pressurized, so they couldn't have
been too badly damaged. I would have expected them to fly 10,000 feet or something. If they
were seriously damaged, they wouldn't be able to pressurize. I guess, they just got extremely
lucky, or maybe they will repair it somehow. That is a long time on the ground there. Somebody
is very happy to get those aircraft back.
[0:34:43] IP: Yeah. They were not at Hostomel Airport, which is where the Antonov plant is and
where there was heavy fighting, and were the AN-225 was destroyed. They were at the main
international airport on the other side of Kyiv. Perhaps, that had something to do with it. Given
the general bombardment of Kyiv, I'm honestly surprised that they were in such good shape.
[0:35:06] JR: Yup. Now, all we have to wait for is those Wizz Air aircraft to get out of there one
day.
[0:35:12] IP: I think they've got what? Three there now still. They got the one out of [inaudible
0:35:16], but it will be a while.
Okay, Episode 195. That's done, which means that our year is done. This is the last new
episode of the year, where we're going to talk about stuff that has happened. Next week, we'll
have an episode up. It'll be a recap of some of the good conversations we had over this year
and some of the things that we talked about. Then we'll come back the following week with a
new episode. Stay tuned for that.
We might also do something not as a strict podcast next week, but perhaps on our YouTube
channel. If you're not following us on Twitter, now is a good time to start if you're interested in
finding out more about that, if the stars align, and Jason and I can manage to work out what
we're going to do there. In the meantime, thanks, everyone, so very much for listening this year.
I hope you've enjoyed listening to the podcast and listening to Jason and I and the other folks
that have been on the show this year.
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AVT 195 Transcript
As always, if you've got questions, comments, suggestions, criticisms, recipes, tips for anything,
podcast@fr24.com is our email address. We always take a look at those and read through
them. Without further ado, I am Ian Petchenik, here, as always with –
[0:36:38] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Thanks for listening and have a good new year.
[END]
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