Epstein Files: Down the Rabbit Hole (w. Dr. Leslie Dobson)

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. Today, we're going to be talking about some very serious themes on the show of suicide, sexual violence, violence, So please listen with care, and we are going to list resources here on the screen for you to seek out if you feel like you need those resources.

00:00:16
Speaker 2: Take care of yourself.

00:00:17
Speaker 1: Guys, welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot, I'm Melissa Albrand. And then we're going to be talking about soup, transracialism. I set the airport Secret Lives of Mormon Wives that time. I was crying on the floor Melissa's office. We have a wild interview with doctor Leslie Dobson talking about Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies. And I'm going to answer all your questions from the DM, so stick around. I was in Jupiter. I don't and so I'm texting Charmaine and I'm like, where did you get this edible from? She gave it to me, Where did she get it from? We don't know where it came from. We can't figure out where the edible came from that I took. We don't know the provenance, you.

00:01:04
Speaker 2: Don't know the origin story. No, and now took it?

00:01:06
Speaker 1: Are things that bad? Where I'm just eating drugs that I thought.

00:01:11
Speaker 2: I was like, I just buy it in her bag had lints on it.

00:01:14
Speaker 1: So she did find it in her bag and she came to me, but it was in a little dime bag. No, there was no lint on it, but it was in a little dime bag. And so she gave it to me. But it was like a year ago, so it's just been in the cabinet, in the cupboard, and I'm like.

00:01:28
Speaker 3: This is like the equivalent of when you were, like, you know, when you were a kid and your grandma had like a candy in her purse.

00:01:34
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, And like literally was I think I was in a toy Star with Charmaine. We were shopping, yeah, and she was like, oh, do you want the edible? My friend gave it to me or something, and so but I was I was truly seeing sounds. I'm hearing colors.

00:01:52
Speaker 2: I don't like that.

00:01:52
Speaker 1: And I texted her, I was like, where did you get this?

00:01:54
Speaker 2: Because you want another one?

00:01:55
Speaker 1: She was like, let me text my friend and find out. And then he couldn't remember. So now we've got a whole chain going around looking up for the origin story. Anyway, how is your weekend, gorgeous, look at you? A vision? A vision.

00:02:12
Speaker 2: There was something I wanted to say to you, and I can't remember what it is.

00:02:15
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, Okay, was it a slur?

00:02:18
Speaker 2: Maybe?

00:02:18
Speaker 1: As usual as usual? Actually this weekend someone yelled at me, did you have a coming? I was going to d C. So I was headed to d C.

00:02:28
Speaker 2: Why are we going to d C?

00:02:29
Speaker 1: Amtrack? I spoke at an event, okay, and so I had to take miss amtrack okay. And since the airports are cocked, truly a hot mess in America right now. Uh, Amtrak has really taken a brunting as well.

00:02:49
Speaker 3: I mean an Amtrak already. The infrastructure is not terrific, right.

00:02:53
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it's hanging on by a thread. You're lucky if you have two rails for the train. So it's about, I want to say, a throng of two hundred people waiting for the actual track to be announced, right, because everyone waits for the track, and it's all New York DC types. So people are just like standing there on their phones, very bored, waiting waiting for the track to be announced. I hear someone yell hey, everyone stops and turns because there's nothing else going on in the train station, and I turn and this guy's looking right at me, locked.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: Eyes eyes, and he goes because, yeah.

00:03:31
Speaker 1: My wife loves your videos. So now everyone on the platform turns looks right at me.

00:03:40
Speaker 2: Maybe he's got an only fan.

00:03:41
Speaker 1: Who is this guy?

00:03:41
Speaker 2: I'm this guy?

00:03:42
Speaker 1: I'm No one else knows who I am except this one man who he doesn't even know who I am?

00:03:47
Speaker 2: So how did he notice shout you out?

00:03:49
Speaker 1: He must have seen something, but he was like my wife, not even me.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: I could give a shit about you, but my fucking wife never shuts up about you.

00:04:00
Speaker 1: Everyone's stereop. I'm red, I'm in like jeans, T shirt, hat like, I'm not really dressed. I don't look I'm not in the Michael foot drag. I'm not in a suit. I don't actually look like what do you mean like the way that people would recognize me?

00:04:12
Speaker 3: Wait, do you mean to tell me that you fancy yourself to be this unrecognizable pird?

00:04:22
Speaker 1: No one would ever catch it, no one would ever clock it.

00:04:25
Speaker 3: Totally random thing about being recognizable. I remember so before I had weight loss surgerios, I was looking at a picture and had showed it to a friend of mine who didn't know me before, and she was like, you don't even look like yourself. And I reject that so much, like this idea that I am a completely different.

00:04:43
Speaker 1: Person you look not that, not that you don't. It looks like a different version of yourself.

00:04:49
Speaker 2: But not like who's that person?

00:04:50
Speaker 1: Honestly. The thing that's like more alarming when I see those photos your hair is it's like different. Yes, it's colored, it's straightened, or it's treated. It's treated, it's treated. I don't know that I'm a bald ass bitch. I don't know what the term. And so I'm sorry, I'm all blow it out, Yeah, blow it out. Okay, wait, so back to you.

00:05:09
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. This is not about me.

00:05:10
Speaker 3: So do you really do you think that people think that you look very different in person than I just not.

00:05:17
Speaker 1: It doesn't so when if I'm at the courthouse and the juries are getting out, multiple people, oh my god, I love your videos, Michael. Yeah, people recognize me there because I'm like in the context where if someone sees my video then I'm like within the context, okay, but here I really was like I think I was like kind of hung over from that out of bawle. I'm in my gym and like jeans and t like I'm waiting. I'm on an Amtrak platform. I don't know. For some reason, I just didn't think I wasn't ready for it. So then he says, can I take your photo? I said sure, so I go. I go to lean in for a selfie and he just takes a photo of me standing there with.

00:05:51
Speaker 4: My dogs so close you're leaning.

00:05:55
Speaker 5: In likes like, hey high.

00:06:01
Speaker 1: But I think I really made I hopefully made her day.

00:06:05
Speaker 3: Maybe you are You are the spouse of the man I saw Michael on the Amtrak platform.

00:06:12
Speaker 2: Could you please reach out to him?

00:06:14
Speaker 1: She was, he was. Everyone was very nice in the situation. I'm so alarming.

00:06:18
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, but but reach out to him. It'll make him feel better.

00:06:21
Speaker 1: Everyone on the Amtrak was like staring the whole time.

00:06:25
Speaker 2: Well, they want to know what kind of videos that you're making? Yeah, did you see that?

00:06:28
Speaker 3: I just just saw this that the CEO of Only Fans bought it?

00:06:34
Speaker 2: What he died? He bought it?

00:06:38
Speaker 3: Oh he died? He Okay, he's no longer with us. I don't know what happened, like.

00:06:43
Speaker 1: An autoerotic asphyxiation, thing.

00:06:45
Speaker 2: I don't know. Let's google it and find Yeah, let's go.

00:06:48
Speaker 1: We're gonna get c J.

00:06:49
Speaker 6: C J.

00:06:50
Speaker 1: If you could just search only fans on your work computer and let us know what comes up.

00:06:55
Speaker 2: We promised nothing will happen.

00:06:56
Speaker 1: I'll give you my credit card. Just what comes up, We'll give you Karen Kilgriff's credit card, and you let us know. One comes up, and we're free.

00:07:04
Speaker 2: Curious, We're just curious, curious.

00:07:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:07:07
Speaker 2: I used to have an esthetician who had an OnlyFans page.

00:07:10
Speaker 1: Really was it like poor, like like zip popping?

00:07:14
Speaker 2: Oh no, she was.

00:07:15
Speaker 3: She was my waxing and stuff. Oh her only No, sorry.

00:07:20
Speaker 1: I thought that she was putting on for waxing people.

00:07:23
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, it was her. She had said to me, She's like, guess what, I have an only fans page.

00:07:27
Speaker 2: I was like, you do? And I was so deeply curious. No, no, no, it wasn't.

00:07:34
Speaker 3: It wasn't it was but I never signed up for it, but I really wanted to.

00:07:40
Speaker 2: But I felt like.

00:07:41
Speaker 3: If I would be, it would be like a breach of some kind. I mean, if she's telling you about it, I feel And I asked, I'm like, what do you do on it, and she was just like she said to me, but she couldn't believe were the things that, in her case, it was men paying her to do whatever, that the things that men would pay for. Somebody gave her five hundred dollars for her to sit there in her bra and underwear eating soup. And I was like, that's it.

00:08:04
Speaker 2: And she was like, that's it.

00:08:05
Speaker 1: Oh honey, I'm doing that for free? What I'm doing that on live right?

00:08:09
Speaker 6: Yeah?

00:08:09
Speaker 2: I know.

00:08:11
Speaker 1: I gotta start ticketing these events. This is unbelievable to.

00:08:14
Speaker 2: Eat soup underwear on her bed.

00:08:17
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite super I love soup.

00:08:19
Speaker 2: I could eat soup everything.

00:08:20
Speaker 1: I could eat soup. Oh my god.

00:08:22
Speaker 2: Right now, my favorite soup is wipe being and es girl. I love it. Beautiful, so good.

00:08:27
Speaker 1: And any of those greens, they're all in season right now. It's like late winter. This is the best time to be doing all under soup.

00:08:35
Speaker 2: So it's a problem.

00:08:36
Speaker 1: Really he is.

00:08:38
Speaker 3: He's a particular eater. He likes what he likes, okay, and he doesn't love soup. He does like, bisk make me a lobster bisk okay, big yeah, yeah, yeah, My bougie ass.

00:08:49
Speaker 1: Man bride can make. Bride can make corn chowder, and his grandfather taught him how to make it.

00:08:54
Speaker 2: I love corn chowder. It's really it's so good.

00:08:56
Speaker 1: It's very good.

00:08:57
Speaker 2: The problem for me, there's a lot of dairy.

00:09:00
Speaker 1: I don't need three gallons of corn chowder and a household of two people. Nope, because now I'm eating corn chowder for two weeks straight.

00:09:07
Speaker 2: No, and now you hate it?

00:09:08
Speaker 1: And that is so can we make a ration, like, let's ration the corn chowder?

00:09:14
Speaker 2: Why did you just have the recipe?

00:09:15
Speaker 1: I'm not it. I can't. I can't give input in the kitchen if he's cooking, okay, I don't have standing to litigate. Why not in that courtroom? We we have a division of powers in the house like it is by Cameralism. There is the house, there is, and never the twain shall meet. I can't be given him because then he'll be in here trying to tell me how to slice a shallotte, and that is I'm holding I'm already holding a knife. Let's not Yeah, let's duck by mandolin. Yeah, let's do a sidebar. I know we wanted to revisit transracialism because we really just dropped that in the common section, like it was hot and I knew nothing about it, and you found out live here on the scene. I knew about transracialism.

00:10:01
Speaker 3: Was nothing zero. Admittedly, I also know very little about it. I just sort of fell into it and was just like, what is this?

00:10:07
Speaker 1: But that's the point of the algorithm, right, It just it just drops you into that burke and.

00:10:12
Speaker 2: Then before you know what, you're in a next rabbit hole.

00:10:15
Speaker 1: I'm texting the lady at the Birken store and I don't even want one. Okay, tell me about transracialism.

00:10:21
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:10:22
Speaker 3: So I got a text message from someone that I know. They have asked that I keep their privacy, so I will do that, And this is what they said to me. Hi, Melissa, I listened to your most recent episode and was interested by your and Michael conversation on transracialism and being transgender.

00:10:40
Speaker 2: I wanted to give you my thoughts on it. First.

00:10:42
Speaker 3: I'll start by saying that I am speaking from a biased perspective on the matter, but I do think there is an important difference between the two. Both gender and race are essentially made up social constructs that don't even have the same different definitions from culture to culture and even from person to person. But to me, what makes being trans different than being transracial is in the actions and decisions in the people and the two communities are making. Okay, when someone like Rachel Dozeal decides to become a black woman and takes up a position as president of the Spoken and the blaci P chapter, that comes at the expense of a community that she does not belong to. On the other hand, the transgender community is not doing things like that. We are not speaking on behalf of CIS women or CIS men, And I've personally never heard of a trans person who argues that they are trans people. For the most sparks speak only on behalf of other trans people. This is where I see the difference. But I always have more to learn, and perhaps there's a perspective that I have overlooked. Even if you don't read this at all, I wanted to share my thoughts. I absolutely read this, and to the person when they know who they are, I adore you completely and thank you so much for listen, Thank you so much for participating. And our plan is we really have to really get into this. We're looking for some experts. If anybody out there knows anyone by all means, please shoot us an email, because, like Michael said, this sort of came into my algorithm randomly.

00:12:19
Speaker 2: I fell into like a rabbit hole over it.

00:12:22
Speaker 3: But I am no expert, and I think that it's a it could be a really interesting conversation for us to have.

00:12:28
Speaker 1: I think so. And I think I think that's interesting because it's about behavior, right, It's not about it's almost not about identity. It's what you do with that identity. Right, So this person was making the comparison between like trans people are just transliving thriving, and then some transracial people like Rachel Doll's dole as all are then usurping areas that of.

00:12:53
Speaker 2: The think that's a huge that's the big people of.

00:12:55
Speaker 1: Color communities, right. Interesting Okay, because it's.

00:12:58
Speaker 3: Not just that she decided Richard does al decided to live her life as a black woman, but she went into what has has been a historically black space and was like I'm the expert and took a spot, yeah, and took a spot that did not belong to her.

00:13:14
Speaker 1: And also I think was like speaking on behalf of right because she was like.

00:13:18
Speaker 2: It's me right, she was speaking I told you like.

00:13:21
Speaker 3: The thing about her hair transition really really bothered me because of somebody who went through it.

00:13:26
Speaker 2: Sure, I was just like, how dare you? How dare you?

00:13:32
Speaker 1: This is your algorithm is showing this is what's going on in our news feed, in our tiktoks, our instagram reels, what is happening. So you were taking a break from the newspeed, from the algorithm.

00:13:43
Speaker 2: I was, are you back, I'm kind of back.

00:13:48
Speaker 1: The little beat a little bit.

00:13:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am back.

00:13:53
Speaker 3: It's hard, you know, it's one of those things where you take a break to sort of preserve your sanity, and the news is always it always feels so everything just feels so dire, right, So you take a break, But then you're walking around into the world and you don't know what's going on.

00:14:12
Speaker 2: And I also don't love that feeling.

00:14:15
Speaker 3: Not that I'm an expert in anything, but you know, being relatively informed I think is important.

00:14:20
Speaker 1: Well, last night I was getting into bed and something within me said, you should.

00:14:26
Speaker 2: Open Instagram right now, Something within me.

00:14:28
Speaker 1: Something with me, the demon in me, said open Instagram.

00:14:31
Speaker 2: And I did, and you did.

00:14:33
Speaker 1: Brad's already passed out. The dogs talked away in his bed and there I was, and I open it and it says updated one minute ago. Okay, the Air Canada and the stairs collision. So now I'm seeing it and it's the worst thing that can happen to an influencer. I'm seeing it and everyone's asleep, and I can't talk to anyone about it.

00:14:58
Speaker 2: So what did you do?

00:14:59
Speaker 1: I went, Okay, but it was unbelievable. What I was like, this is crazy. I need to talk to someone about this. So I guess the plane was landing, yeah, and there was already an emergency at LaGuardia, correct, and so they shut it down. Yes, And so the stairs were headed to some other emergency and the Air Canada plane hit the stairs. Okay, both pilots.

00:15:26
Speaker 2: Pilots died. I know. That's that's awful. I know awful. I mean, and it's and it's obviously, you know, any.

00:15:32
Speaker 3: Loss of life is terrible, right, but it's not just that. It's also the repercussions of this accident. So I had a colleague who's supposed to fly in from somewhere. Now they're stuck where they are, and yeah, and they won't be able to get back in until tomorrow. And I mean and it's it's I think it also shows us how fragile our infrastructure is for everything.

00:15:55
Speaker 1: And how reliable it is upon the federal government, right, Like exact planes at LaGuardia, Yeah, and their success at landing are directly connected to whether or not the federal government has funding, right, Like, we can't just sort of like break these pieces.

00:16:11
Speaker 2: Apart now you can't.

00:16:13
Speaker 1: They're at an airport is directly due to the funding bill being right paused. So I thought that was interesting. I mean TSA and ICE agents today. Today's we record on Monday. So I've already made a couple of videos today if you want to check them out online about what's going on in airports. I've been reposting this is very much breaking news. But TSA agents are not getting paid. Some of them are still at airports in America. But ICE agents are now going to be in American airports as of today Monday right now.

00:16:45
Speaker 2: Is the idea behind that to take the place of the TSA agents that are not there, or is it some other role that they're no going on?

00:16:53
Speaker 1: Fucking knows what they're supposed to be doing and what they're doing there because they're supposed to I guess this is be stop gap for staffing. I don't even think the president could say why he has ICE agents in airports. They're supposed to be serving as TSA agents, but literally it's the first day they're there, and we're already seeing them arresting migrants in airports as he masked. Some are masks, a lot of them are not. And so there's videos of them running away from photographers at the airport because they don't want to be photographed. Gee, it's almost like you're doing something they're not supposed to do that you have to run away from a photographer. If you're running away from a photographer, maybe you're not doing the wrong doing the wrong thing.

00:17:39
Speaker 2: You're doing the wrong thing.

00:17:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you know, couldn't happen to better people as far as I'm concerned.

00:17:45
Speaker 1: And the thing is is that I made a video and about this is what if you're anyone other than a US citizen, don't travel at least for a week or two, see what happens. Let's just like we already know every time these people in air quotes, people are deployed to a city, that they do something they're not supposed to do. Right, we already know. They don't care about the Constitution. They don't care about the Fourth Amendment, they don't care about anyway. They don't care about your First Amendment right. They can and will detain you if you are just a person of color. They don't care. So everyone freaked out when I made that video, and they were like, well, what about my trip? And I'm on a contract and I'm supposed to go on a cruise and my sister's cousin has to is on a has to travel for work. I meant what I said, hmm, do not travel. I will, and I said it. I will always be the most careful of the opinions of the voices in this space. My job is to keep you out of removal proceedings. Once we're there, it's a lot harder for me to help you. Right. There are plenty of things I can do in immigration court and help you in a removal proceeding, but let's not let it get there. Canceled the trip.

00:19:00
Speaker 6: Right.

00:19:01
Speaker 1: There's a difference between like being taking a precaution and being safe and having to like claw back and like figure out, let's avoid an emergency situation if possible, no matter how convenient so that is still what I suggest people do, despite the overwhelming number of people who reached out asking me about their specific situation.

00:19:24
Speaker 2: Are you sure I am.

00:19:25
Speaker 1: I'm gonna me, I'm gonna I'm gonna double down. I'm gonna tend toes down on this one and say, wait two weeks and see what they're doing. It's day one and I'm already watching a woman being tackled in Oakland, so let's like take let's wait, let's wait. I want to keep you safe. Sure, that is like where I'm coming from here. So that was the one thing that was really all over my feed today. Yeah, Pam BONDI though subpoena, good subpoena, good by Robert Garcia and good She's like, I'm not doing it, which means eventually, if you avoid subpoena, is enough a warrant for your.

00:20:03
Speaker 3: You get arrested. So you know what, don't go, Pam, don't go. I would love to see that photo. Now, wait to see this woman with no extensions, no filler in an orange jumps out.

00:20:13
Speaker 1: I've got a spot for you on my lock screen when you're ready, when we get that photo, I would love for that.

00:20:20
Speaker 2: You're going to take Jack off your screen for Pam.

00:20:23
Speaker 1: For Pam Bondy getting purp walked into. Absolutely, I would take anyone. No one in my life is more important than that visual. My husband will tell you, he'll agree. Speaking of spouses, have you followed the Secret Lives of Mormon Lives Trauma this weekend?

00:20:43
Speaker 2: Oh it's not the chick who the bachelorette?

00:20:46
Speaker 1: Yeah? Throwing stools and taking names. So we've got what's her name, Taylor Frankie Green.

00:20:52
Speaker 3: So these are not things that I watch right Like, I'm I'm not a bachelorette person. I'm not a Secret Housewives or anybody person, the secret house.

00:21:02
Speaker 2: Of whatever it is. I this is just don't tell anyone.

00:21:06
Speaker 1: I'm a stay at homest.

00:21:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think are not things that I'm interested in. But again, if you're on social media, it came across and I did. When I saw her throw in the stool, I went back to look at this little thing, like, what is happening here?

00:21:19
Speaker 2: You know what I wonder?

00:21:21
Speaker 3: I I wonder because think about this is a huge franchise. It makes a ton of money, yes, and I wonder who's going to lose their job over this?

00:21:33
Speaker 2: Because the person was not vetted.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: We found out it was Taylor Frankie Green because they canceled The.

00:21:39
Speaker 2: Bachelor, Right, but do you know what I'm saying?

00:21:40
Speaker 3: Like they you know, like I always wonder about that, like what what is the vetting process?

00:21:46
Speaker 2: What are the questions that are asked or not asked?

00:21:49
Speaker 1: No one is Yeah, yeah, well because no one's more dangerous than a white woman on reality TV, Like that is going to be the most treacherous person you're.

00:21:59
Speaker 2: Going to meet, unless it's a white woman at your job who's crying. Go ahead.

00:22:05
Speaker 1: That it's really real, you feel do you You seemed like you had more to say on that something. No, that's all white women. I kyk, You've told me a bit about these situations. Yeah, white women cry at work and say that black women were being mean to them, or.

00:22:24
Speaker 3: They just cry like there's nothing like I mean, I've had people crying my well, yeah, I've had people crying my office. But they're crying in my office. But it was me, Yeah, it was Michael. Michael was crying in my office because he put what did you do?

00:22:40
Speaker 1: I got a migraine? I had a really bad migraine.

00:22:43
Speaker 2: But what did you do?

00:22:44
Speaker 1: So we went to Alyssa, that's what right, And she I was like, Alyssa, what do I take for migraines? Because she's a migraine girl all the time. And she was like oh, and she opens up her purse and she gave my four no four like Bob have now polished tumble out along with like a couple of things of like CBD right of like topical. And she's like, so you put them here, here, here and here they were highly mentilated.

00:23:10
Speaker 3: Yes, it was peppermint oral or something, and Michael somehow gets into his arm.

00:23:16
Speaker 2: I put it on and then I rubbed my eyes.

00:23:20
Speaker 4: And now he's crying in my office on the floor. I'm looking at ling on the floor and I'm like, what Michael says, help me? So this is what I did. This is what I did, and I'm gonna sell you how I knew what to do.

00:23:37
Speaker 3: But I I bring over my garbage pails and I open a bottle of water.

00:23:43
Speaker 2: And now I'm waterboarding and I.

00:23:46
Speaker 1: Look at this is I couldn't see much because I had a migrant and now I have oil in my eyes.

00:23:51
Speaker 2: Now he's blind.

00:23:52
Speaker 1: I do have a visual if Melissa looking at me and I do feel like, at one point year old, your eyes like I'm going to have to douche this man's eyeball, Like I can't believe I'm doing.

00:24:01
Speaker 3: This at work, But you have to ask me, Melissa, Melissa, how do you know how to?

00:24:08
Speaker 2: And everybody and my family knows this story.

00:24:10
Speaker 3: When my brother was about five years old, my brother crazy glued his eye shut.

00:24:15
Speaker 1: No, this's a plot point on season two of The Pit. This happened did episode one.

00:24:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, my brother crazy glued his eye shut and my mother my father was at work and my mother at the time was in graduate school and she was doing like her last thing and my and my brother comes out and he's crying with one eye shut like this bigger and then my mom looked at him and looked at me, and she said to me, Melissa, fix you on. So I had to take my brother. So my brother was like five, so I must have been like sixteen years old. Tay my brother into the bathroom, and I probably scalded the shit out of him because now I've got his eye under hot water and I'm putting vaciline on it, and I took a paper clip.

00:25:08
Speaker 2: To like pick off, but you know what, he's fine, can see again? He could see again.

00:25:14
Speaker 1: That's like full treo, is this is actually? Nurse Jackie like, this is.

00:25:19
Speaker 3: I remember I remember once just talking to a therapist, but I wasn't talking about this because I was fine, right, But he was like, Melissa, that sounds very traumatizing, and I'm like, is it?

00:25:33
Speaker 1: This is like, this is like your jury story from last week. You were underreacting to life babe and your jury story last week. You were like, yeah, so yeah, anyway, the mob stuffed this guy in a trunk and dragged him across.

00:25:45
Speaker 3: It was this random yeah who stuck this poor man and in the trunk of his car and.

00:25:51
Speaker 2: Drove him across.

00:25:52
Speaker 1: Was he okay?

00:25:52
Speaker 3: What happened the man? Yeah, yeah, he's okay. He was okay, but that eye off, he didn't come out.

00:26:01
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. What was what it was? For me?

00:26:03
Speaker 3: What was boring was the process, right. It was lengthy, and nobody was like, I object. It was none of that.

00:26:10
Speaker 1: It was just like, oh, they were like and what was he wearing? Any stuffed do in the trunk of the car, And you were like, God, this is get me the fuck out.

00:26:17
Speaker 2: You're boring.

00:26:18
Speaker 1: No, I know. Okay.

00:26:19
Speaker 3: Anyway, that's how I knew how to save Michael's eyes. So if you have an eye problem, I'm your girl.

00:26:25
Speaker 1: Chief of Optalmology a brief Recess at iHeart Studios, Melissa Malbranches.

00:26:31
Speaker 2: Anyway, Oh good, all.

00:26:32
Speaker 1: Right, we'll be right back. Let's take a break. I do now my eye itches. As you say, a welcome back to Brief resays, this is under oath. We're going to do a deep dive. We've got an incredible guest on today's show. We have doctor Leslie Dobson. She's a forensic clinical psychologist. She's worked with individuals and maximum security suffering from severe mental illnesses. She does forensic evaluations, assesses sexual abuse allegations, and focuses on the validity of post injury emotional, cognitive, and behavioral functioning. Thank you for joining us, doctor Dobson. I thought it would be great to have you on the show today to talk a bit about the Epstein files and what we've sort of seen happening with the case in America. I know that you have done a few of these interviews sort of talking about is Epstein alive, what's happening with this autopsy? I would love to just sort of get into it with you. Melissa and I talk about this a lot, so this is really an area of interest, especially as everyone is learning more and more about these files as we sort of dig into the actual documents.

00:27:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean my opinion would be now, I think I would even testify to this that I opine to the fact that he is still alive.

00:27:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I think what's so interesting, right, There are a lot of people on the internet who are saying that, but I think you're one of the few people who is drawing upon what I know from cross examining and examining doctors and forensic texts in court. You're really relying heavily upon your expertise in your area of practice. So I thought it would be cool if we could sort of go through it a bit today and talk about whether or not this report from his hanging ruled suicide, what brings true to you where you see the holes and errors in this case, I can.

00:28:38
Speaker 6: Draw upon a little bit of his attempted suicide a few months prior as well.

00:28:44
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into it.

00:28:47
Speaker 6: We have to like take apart the trees, but we have to see the forest for the trees at the same time. And I think holding that duality is difficult for people, and that's why there's so much controversy around all this.

00:28:59
Speaker 1: And that's oftentimes what we're doing in court, right in a criminal trial, Yes, we get the expert in on the really specific details. We're looking at the images, we're looking at the autopsy report, but we also have to look at the person. We have to look at the corpus of the evidence, we have to look at the circumstances. We can't just look at one specific detail, right, So why don't we get started. Let's do this full trial style. Let's credential you as an expert. Tell us about who you are and your profession. Let's get right into it.

00:29:29
Speaker 6: Oh okay, a little wa dere here. Yes, doctor Leslie Dobson a real license psychologist, even though people on the internet don't believe it.

00:29:40
Speaker 1: No, I have a bable believe I'm a lawyer either, So.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: It's fine, God forbid.

00:29:46
Speaker 6: We have personalities into our jobs. I got a bachelor's degree in psychology. I have two master's degrees, one arguably regrettable in Freudian dream interpretation psycho analysis. But I got to travel a lot to do it. Yeah, and then I have a doctorate in forensic psychology and a fellowship in high risk sexual offenders.

00:30:11
Speaker 1: Okay, so you really are the expert in this space, then, I mean, this is really someone who has studied and is credentialed as an expert in this field.

00:30:20
Speaker 6: Definitely. I've testified in over fifty trials. I've been deposed well over sixty times at this point, and I both criminally and civilly. But I worked for the government for a long time, which gave me access to the nasty fuckers of this world. And then when there was a hit on my life, I decided to go into civil litigation and get out.

00:30:43
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good for you. Yeah, to stay safe. It's really hard to be a badass expert and also not be alive.

00:30:51
Speaker 6: So yeah, I can't carry my gun in there.

00:30:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. So looking at the Epstein files, looking at the death of Epstein, the official ruling was suicide by hanging. What is your first response to hearing.

00:31:09
Speaker 6: That it doesn't make sense. The bone breaking does not line up with typical hangings by suicide. The way that it looked on his neck, how it was angled, is not how it should have been. It should have been angled upward, looking at the grid where he allegedly had hung himself. I've responded to hangings, and in state hospital systems, you don't take the person down. You do not immediately try to save them because they may be trying to kill you. It could be a trick. So you always wait for a second person to arrive and before you save their life. It's really fucked up, I know. But your safety is more important than theirs.

00:31:50
Speaker 1: Interesting, and so that's protocol.

00:31:52
Speaker 6: Oh, it's protocol. You do not singularly break up a fight. You do not singularly do anything that has potential risks violence to you.

00:32:01
Speaker 1: And you would say that that's kind of like an industry standard that everyone is on the same page about that.

00:32:05
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean that's the Department of State Hospital Training.

00:32:08
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, Okay, that's incredible.

00:32:10
Speaker 2: And so that's really interesting.

00:32:11
Speaker 3: Actually, So if you are an employee at a prison or something and you walk into a cell and you see the person, as far as you can tell, the person is still alive because there's movement, you are not permitted to cut that person down. You have to wait for your partner to come. So by the time that person comes.

00:32:29
Speaker 1: Right, that that person might actually be.

00:32:31
Speaker 6: Dead, right, And you know if I break the glass and I get the cut scissors and I pull my alarm and the alarms are going off, and I go in and cut him down. What if he wraps his legs around my neck and breaks my neck? There's violence every single day.

00:32:45
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I could. That's right, it could be a trick. Wow, that's amazing. I didn't really think of that.

00:32:50
Speaker 6: But sad we have to live in the defensive way, but they brutalize us as employees in the state hospital system every single day.

00:32:57
Speaker 1: Wow. Right, So in the SEO, what happened. The guard did cut him down. The guard took him down.

00:33:04
Speaker 6: Right, and it was high enough up that you would have seen a line, right, it would have had an upward trajectory. When you self asphyxiate, you're going to be forward facing, and that's how it was described. And then the rope would be up behind him or the teared torn towel. Now, the first time he tried it, it wasn't successful. I haven't seen pictures of the first time, but it was a similar description. And then the second time somebody would have come in, there would have been two people coming in. Oddly, the cameras glitched the first suicide attempt and the second. That's so strange, right, and so you would cut the rope and then you would immediately start CPR.

00:33:46
Speaker 1: So what happened in this situation? Then with Jeffrey Epstein? Did they do follow any of those protocols?

00:33:53
Speaker 6: From what I read, they cut him down and he had already died. I don't know if they I hadn't read anything about CP And there was no alteration to his rib cage or his muscles where you would, you know, you could usually break some ribs, you mess stuff up, you'd have some significant bruising with real CPR.

00:34:12
Speaker 1: And before he allegedly committed suicide, there were issues with his body that were not present in the autopsy report.

00:34:20
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, he had small testes.

00:34:25
Speaker 2: I'm kidding.

00:34:25
Speaker 6: The fake body had small testes.

00:34:28
Speaker 2: Okay, So Michael, control yourself, she said, the fake body, right, So, but do.

00:34:36
Speaker 3: You think that because I'll tell you. When I had heard that Epstein had died, had died by suicide, my first inclination was he didn't die by suicide.

00:34:49
Speaker 2: Somebody killed him.

00:34:50
Speaker 3: That is that is that was as opposed to me believing that he wasn't dead, that the whole thing was a hoax. I was like, he didn't kill himself, somebody killed him. So but you're telling us that your belief is that he is not dead at all.

00:35:04
Speaker 6: Yes, and not only from ripping apart the autopsy. Talking to morticians, you know the yah one of the doctors who's been doing this for fifty years and said, how bizarre this is. Okay, that could lend to murder. Sure, but now we're looking at this massive Epstein network and international network, pulling in the KGB and Israel and Norwegian assets. You don't think this guy had the power to know he was going to go to jail and then get out. I mean, the prison guard got five grand before they even knew he was going there. His estate won the eighty million dollars Powerball a week after he went into prison. It's there's just too much information to say that he didn't have his wherewithal did just get out of prison.

00:35:50
Speaker 1: Melissa and I are looking at each other like this is believable. Yeah.

00:35:54
Speaker 3: You know I was saying this to Michael earlier. You know, I listened to an interview that you gave recently. And I think the thing about it is that we don't want to believe that any of this is true.

00:36:10
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying, In the sense of, like, you know, listening.

00:36:14
Speaker 3: To this idea that Ebstein and his cronies they were cannibalizing people, right, it's one of those things that you want to believe is so far fetched that it couldn't possibly be true. Same thing with this idea that you know, he was so powerful that he knew all the right people in all the right places to like smuggle him out somehow, it sounds like something that is made up. It sounds like something that you've seen on the big screen, right, because we've seen movies where somebody's going to do like a prison break and they fake their death, they cart the body out in the coffin of someone else. You know, we've seen those stories before. But this idea that this is something similar ish happened here, it feels so unbelievable that you want to believe that.

00:37:06
Speaker 2: It's not true. Does that makes sense?

00:37:08
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:37:08
Speaker 6: Well I do, And I think it's you know, it's hyper normalization. I think the dump of the data was purposeful and the amounts were purposeful. There are images that have been taken offline that were there. So I think they wanted to quickly shut everyone up and then bomb Iran and hope it went away. And you know, I do believe that we distract in politics, and it's true.

00:37:33
Speaker 1: It's too convenient, right, I mean, every time we hear about a dumper about images or a really damning email, suddenly it's taken down off of the website and then.

00:37:44
Speaker 3: There's some other calamity elsewhere that happens to sort of you know, they're like they're trying to bait and switch us, right, like, oh, look at this other shiny thing.

00:37:52
Speaker 2: Yes, don't focus on this thing, right, It.

00:37:55
Speaker 1: Makes too much sense often, right, And I think that I know that recently they there have been some subpoenas that have gone out for people to testify for guards that were there the night of this alleged suicide. Can you speak to that a little bit?

00:38:10
Speaker 6: Correc so that the House Oversight Committee has subpoenaed at least one of the guards who was there that night, and in particular, she has received payments from the Epstein estate in amounts of five thousand dollars.

00:38:22
Speaker 2: That is not that much money done, like that is not enough to cover up that.

00:38:27
Speaker 3: It feels like that's not enough money for this person to risk all of this, Right, five.

00:38:34
Speaker 2: Thousand dollars you're dealing with really dangerous and you'll get five thousand dollars right, Like, it just feels right.

00:38:39
Speaker 6: So then what was the money for? How many? How many times did she get it?

00:38:43
Speaker 2: Right?

00:38:44
Speaker 6: Are there multiple accounts? Do we know she's a good person to question?

00:38:48
Speaker 1: I five thousand dollars is usually at the amount that doesn't flag too much attention in bank statements. Oftentimes in cases I've dealt with, it's usually you want to like people are keeping transfers on the smaller side because it doesn't trigger any sort of IRS scrutiny.

00:39:08
Speaker 2: I thought it was under ten thousand, yeah, like nine thousand, yeah, on the lower scale, right, I.

00:39:15
Speaker 6: Mean ten thousand is the limit to go to Mexico.

00:39:17
Speaker 1: But now you're telling us how to do it, not the how to guide.

00:39:25
Speaker 3: So do we believe as far as this particular prison guard that it was only a one time five thousand dollars payment? And have they been able to explain why did she get that five thousand dollars at all?

00:39:38
Speaker 6: She hasn't spoken to it. She hasn't explained. They haven't explained, but it's in his financial records that were exposed, and Congress plans to ask about it, Okay, you know. And then he also he also purchased two ambulances shortly before. And then there's another prison guard who sent an email that's in the files and the FBI referenced it. I think he used four chan or discord to state that they moved a body in at midnight, right when the cameras got out.

00:40:08
Speaker 1: I saw about that, yeah, and so okay, so we have these little dribbling bits of evidence that are sort of like dropping in here and there. What do you think happened? Like, what is your hypothesis?

00:40:21
Speaker 6: I would just assume he walked out with his friends and they brought in another body. And that's why we have three doctors who did the autopsy with varying information. And now he's had plastic surgery, changed his face and living in Russia.

00:40:39
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean again, it just sounds like one of those things that you don't want to believe is true because it sounds like something that you would see.

00:40:46
Speaker 1: In But then when you lay the evidence out, it does make a little too much sense, right, I mean, an extremely powerful person involved with other really powerful people, who is now in a relatively low security prison situation. I mean, yeah, it does kind of make sense.

00:41:05
Speaker 6: I mean, when Charlie Sheen came into La County Jail, he was on a wonder one. It's fucking Charlie Sheen, Like, we could not take our eyes off him. Right, You don't leave someone like Jeffrey Epstein alone for a second. You have a one to one eyes on you are. You're writing on a little log all your fifteen minute check ins. You know, you're documenting everything that wasn't happening. That's completely unimaginable.

00:41:30
Speaker 1: And he was technically classified as someone who was supposed to be on suicide watch because.

00:41:35
Speaker 6: He had just tried.

00:41:36
Speaker 3: I was going to say, was he on suicide watch before the previous attempt or once that attempt?

00:41:42
Speaker 2: It was after that?

00:41:43
Speaker 6: It was after that after that, Okay, months prior. You know, we could say, you know, he had a little practice, he got better at it and succeeded. But it doesn't. It doesn't look like an actual suicide to the doctors who for fifty years haven't been investigating hangings and dead.

00:41:59
Speaker 1: By There's been a lot of talk in the Epstein files about cannibalism and people eating people, and I know that you've worked on cases that involve cannibalism in the past. Could you talk a little bit about those cases and sort of your experience and how that applies here.

00:42:18
Speaker 6: Sure, I've had patients, all of they've all had mental illness, severe mental illness, from schizophrenia arranging to if you want to say psychopathy is a mental illness, we would call that. We would say they had antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder, and then we would give them the psychopathy inventory. They would rank high and then that's how it would determine it, because it's not a diagnosis. But between both of those individuals. I have come across many in the state hospital system, in jails and prisons, and especially at Coalinga State Hospital. That's where we hold the sexually violent predators in California who have eaten people for avariety of reasons. I mean, I think so there's kind of three categories of cannibalism. It would be the survival you know, airplane crash, we got to eat people to survive, the Yellow Jackets right right, that should freak me out more than meeting them in real life. But that, and then we have the ritualistic, satanic, ritualistic, and.

00:43:25
Speaker 1: We see that a lot in pop culture. We see that on TV, we see that in movies, right right.

00:43:31
Speaker 6: And then you know what is cannibalism is drinking blood? Under that category, we don't really have the ca real definition for what it is. Is it if you cook it, does it? It doesn't count? But then you have the more psychotic.

00:43:45
Speaker 3: Yes answer, Yes, if you cook a person doesn't count.

00:43:49
Speaker 2: Of course, why is that? I don't even understand why that's a.

00:43:53
Speaker 1: Question the lawyer I should have asked that just for everyone watching, if yes accounts.

00:44:04
Speaker 2: I am.

00:44:05
Speaker 3: I'm like very stuck on this. I can't believe that that's a question. Who asked that question? Get them in the studio.

00:44:11
Speaker 6: If they ask me these questions all the time.

00:44:13
Speaker 1: You know what I cooked it, it don't count, you know it?

00:44:20
Speaker 3: Just again, it just sounds so wild, right that people are asking questions like that.

00:44:28
Speaker 1: It's easier to be like, y'all are crazy, discredit the person giving you the information because the information.

00:44:34
Speaker 2: Is so ridiculous.

00:44:36
Speaker 1: But it's one of these things that, Like, I mean, that's happened throughout history, right, We've always had people discrediting and saying that you're crazy for saying that, and then fifty years later everyone's like, oh, yeah, no, they were right right in prison Galileo.

00:44:50
Speaker 6: And I fully grasped that there are targeted smear campaigns and Hillary Clinton and Pizzagate. You know, nobody kind of believed it, and maybe they used that, you know, as a political attack. But there's also very real elite individuals and satanic rituals that drink blood and kill children on purpose and eat parts of their body that tax in America, well largely in other countries. I mean, I didn't think we'd hear about it so much in the Ebsteine files, but the for thousands of years they've been doing this in these rituals and these you know, private clubs. You could say, I don't.

00:45:32
Speaker 1: Know, this is too crazy, it is crazy.

00:45:37
Speaker 2: But I just I'm wondering what is what is the purpose?

00:45:42
Speaker 3: Right?

00:45:42
Speaker 2: Like why why is this the thing? Right? You have this very elite group of people, there's this club.

00:45:50
Speaker 3: And you know, and I always wonder, like, where is someone in life where they decide that that's the thing that I'm going to do to get you to join my club. And then the other person was like, yeah, that's a good idea. I'm gonna I'm going to do that.

00:46:05
Speaker 1: Whatever happened to annual dudes? You know, like whatever happened to be? Whatever happened to typing?

00:46:11
Speaker 3: Well but no, but seriously, I am curious, like what is what is the purpose of I mean, I think, let's say that I choose to accept this notion of a ritual. Okay, I may disagree, but I accept that that's what it is. But this idea of belonging to a like this elite club or this elite group of people, what is.

00:46:38
Speaker 2: Based on what? You know?

00:46:39
Speaker 3: What is the reasoning behind this? Why would somebody think that that's what you need to do.

00:46:44
Speaker 6: I think with the Epstein case, and it's this is different than a lot of the cannibals that I've met. But with the Epstein case, youth and life longevity were a big thing. Right. He was trying to make the perfect baby, you know, a Drena.

00:46:59
Speaker 1: Crown, all this designer babies or.

00:47:01
Speaker 6: The designer babies, right, But I think, so you've got the longevity, But then I think you have to really think about the spirituality and the ritualistic nature of people, and that human sacrifice has been a thing throughout the history of humans and when you reach that group or that level in that sacrificial moment is going to bring you to that next level of religiosity. In my mind, delusion, But they believe it.

00:47:35
Speaker 1: And so as you're sort of looking at the Epstein case, at the everything that happened in the prison where he was being held, and now this autopsy report, what really stands out to you, is there anything else in that autopsy report where you're like, this is totally something that people need to be talking about that they're not picking up on.

00:47:57
Speaker 6: His prostate was there in the box, but in the files they said his prostate was removed. They said his urethrow was on one side of the tip of his penis oddly placed, and his penis was egg shaped. That wasn't noted in the autopsy of the body that they determined was his. There are tattoos, and people argue saying he had stick on fake tattoos. He did. He also had real tattoos that weren't noted in the autopsy. And then we have the more conspiracy not that we're already in it, but of his nose changing, his eye shape, changing his lips, his ears. I mean, people have gone to town comparing his ear lobes. I don't know how if your ears changed when you die.

00:48:44
Speaker 1: But there's a photo of him after his death where it almost looks like he's smirking. It looks like a faked photo of him. In the cell.

00:48:53
Speaker 6: There's a lot of AI. Yeah, there's definitely AI, like you know. And then we've got Palm Beach Pete who's getting a lot of attention lately, who looks just like him.

00:49:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this guy in Palm Beach who's been driving around in a convertible and he looks exactly like Jeffrey Impstein and everyone sees him and is freaking out. It looks just like him.

00:49:16
Speaker 2: Wow, our producers just showed it. Wow. Okay, Well.

00:49:21
Speaker 6: He's using it to his benefit yeaheah Yeah.

00:49:25
Speaker 1: So where do you see all this?

00:49:26
Speaker 2: Heading?

00:49:26
Speaker 1: Right? Like, we've got so many we have more questions than answers when it comes to the files. Will there be some sort of accountability in this case? Because it's so clear this administration wants this shut down. They don't want to talk about it. They want everyone to move on, and every time they do that, everyone just starts looking at it closer.

00:49:45
Speaker 2: Right, give him more attention.

00:49:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I think also asking why in other countries people are going to jail, they are losing their jobs, you know, right, what's his name got unprinted or whatever you call it.

00:49:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've removed him.

00:49:59
Speaker 2: From right, So there are people who are.

00:50:04
Speaker 3: Feeling the repercussions of just having known this man, whereas in this country nothing, it feels like nothing is happening.

00:50:12
Speaker 6: I think there's actually a lot more happening than people know about. I mean, the UK is now demanding unreducted files so that they can investigate inmate Andrew, So that will move forward. Let's see if they get the files, let's see if they get pushed back. But other countries may need to help us out in that regard and start trying to obtain the information themselves. But I think, you know, and tell me if I'm wrong, because I'm not the lawyer. But I think the key is building a rico. You know. I think we've got to start from the bottom up. We have doctors who have a lot of information that are still practicing at in Ohio, at UCLA, Princeton, Stanford. We have dentists, we have groundskeepers, we have a chef.

00:50:57
Speaker 1: Columbia University Medical Center. There as someone who was affiliated with Epstein and the women that he abused, and she was a doctor who would treat the women. Right. I mean this has been a long standing, intricate network of professionals, business people who were all a part of this network. It's not just one person.

00:51:18
Speaker 2: Right, It's not just him, and just like Glaine Gallain, yeah, right.

00:51:22
Speaker 6: So if you I think it was I think it was stupid to depose the Clintons.

00:51:27
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think they intended to depose the Clintons. I think they said, oh, we're going to depose them, thinking that they were going to say no. And then Hillary Clinton snapped off her press on nails and took off her earrings and Chris hostomped, grabbed post stomped right into fucking yeah.

00:51:44
Speaker 2: And she dropped up Bill and was like listen, yeah, she said.

00:51:47
Speaker 1: Buckle up, Buttercup, Like, I don't think people thought that they were going to testify.

00:51:52
Speaker 2: Did you did you listen to it? I did?

00:51:54
Speaker 1: End right after they agreed to testify. We've got a clip of Trump being like, oh, you know, I always liked respected Bill. I thought he was a nice It's.

00:52:03
Speaker 2: Like right after he was like, you better, you better.

00:52:06
Speaker 1: Testify, And then they asked him after Bill said yes, he was like, you know, he's always been such a nice guy to me.

00:52:11
Speaker 2: He's a strong president.

00:52:14
Speaker 6: I mean Hillary, Yeah, she showed that she was like a rock star, telling them that they were all idiots and how a lawyer. You know, you want to set up a pattern, you want a corner, me, let me help you out.

00:52:25
Speaker 2: Right.

00:52:25
Speaker 6: But then Bill, I mean utterly pointless until the moment he saw the pictures. Yeah, and then the admiration for those pictures told the world he's been on that island, and he had some more guests.

00:52:39
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, really yeah, he was a little bit too excited to do a walk down memory Lane. Well, and the other thing was an island.

00:52:45
Speaker 3: What I thought was super interesting about this because I watched it was his attorney was sitting next to him and at one point she grabbed the pictures enough.

00:52:54
Speaker 2: No, no, no, But it was more like give this to me, you know what I mean. It was it was more like that. It was more like you stupid it is.

00:53:04
Speaker 1: You got to keep this form guys. You got to keep these photos away from him too much.

00:53:09
Speaker 3: I wonder with the work that you do, it's you know, it's a very heavy emotional lift. How do you take care of yourself? Because I feel like so. One of the things I'll say is that I have, at one point or another, started and stopped to look at the Epstein files that I see online, and it is overwhelming. It is overwhelming for me. And similarly, I was listening to this interview that you gave and again I had to stop. I picked it up again, but I had to stop because it's overwhelming, and I just wonder you are doing this work, this really hard, necessary work, because somebody needs to tell us what's happening. Right.

00:53:52
Speaker 2: How do you take care of yourself? How do you have the appetite for this?

00:53:57
Speaker 6: I eat a lot of beef jerky. No, I'm my husband's a psychologist. I do pilates a lot. I love melates. I think it's better than meditation. Having to hold yourself in the air and not die is phenomenal to get out of your head. But I've had great mentors, and I've had great training and I've learned over time to leave work where work should lay, and I have active cases. Now I have two reports that are going to trial, and I have to finish them this week, so I have my own distractions, even though they're still dark. There's still the rape cases. There are difficult cases.

00:54:38
Speaker 2: But we win.

00:54:40
Speaker 6: I win all the time. I win settlements for people. I bring justice to victims. I close schools, I take money from the Catholic Church, I close dioceses. I put people behind bars, and every moment of that erases the trauma I endured to get there, and every child I save. I just did a Hey international case, a child abduction case. So now I'm working all around the world, and ninety nine percent of those cases fail. The kids get sent back to the violent parent. We won. I got heard well enough, I tested everyone psychologically well enough to explain, and that to me, those winds make it worth it.

00:55:23
Speaker 3: Sure, No, it's just you know, I just can't imagine it, and I don't know. I feel like I want to say thank you because it just feels like really really difficult, constantly, like uphill work.

00:55:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you get a lot of pushback on the internet for your videos or from other experts, even because I.

00:55:41
Speaker 6: Oh yeah nottimes, not from other experts. Independent journalists do like to write hit pieces on me and like the Wall Street Journal things like that. But other experts were in line with how we view this, and we support each other. But I get a lot of death threats and those aren't from experts. Those are just from people. So you know, I have a dog sent from Serbia who speaks German, I conceal and carry, you know, I have people that watch me. So yeah, I have to take tractrations.

00:56:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, So in your opinion, as you're sort of looking at the overall Epstein situation, and I just want to ask, like, and you it sounds like you have a lot of experience with these types of systematized abduction of children. What are you seeing here in this case right as an expert in this area of practice, Like, what are you really seeing as you observe the Epstein situation from the outside.

00:56:45
Speaker 6: I'm seeing the world drastically trying to normalize the age of consent, to minimize pedophilia and to minimize the severity of child trafficking across the world. And you know, a lot of people hate on Tim Tebow. I don't know much about him, but his organization has done a phenomenal job really pointing out trafficking and the dangers of it. They put money behind it. The statistics are really solid. You know, if you were to google it, you might see one hundred thousand kids missing in America a year. I'd say it's well over three hundred thousand. Where the fuck are they all going? Yeah, you know I've had people sell their children. I mean, that's how a Lot got to Epstein was they sold their child for the day, a lot with the hope of becoming someone becoming famous. You know, white people went to the Playboy mansion and then got trafficked. But a lot of parents, you know, the most likely person to traffic a child is the biological father. And trafficking doesn't mean gone for good. It could just mean sell for an hour. Right, we have to see what we also have to understand what this term trafficking means. Right.

00:58:00
Speaker 1: A lot of people think it's some sort of like.

00:58:03
Speaker 2: The person has disappeared somehow, right, Yeah.

00:58:07
Speaker 1: Which is sometimes the case.

00:58:08
Speaker 6: Sure, and these girls had babies. We don't know where the babies went, but a lot of the survivors who still have not been interviewed by Pam Bondi or the DOJ have a lot to say, and they all have open investigations. And that's, you know, that's the movement we're not seeing. That's movement we can't see because they are actively going through these cases.

00:58:31
Speaker 3: Two things I want to ask you, so have you had an opportunity to speak to Epstein victims and to hear what they say and to document what they say many many okay? And what happens with that information? Are you just holding on to it or is there a plan? Because I think that's one of the things that I think about quite a bit, and I've talked about this with some friends, Like I feel like we're not hearing enough from victims and is that because they want to protect themselves or are they being stifled?

00:59:02
Speaker 6: They're terrified of being sued for billions of dollars because we're talking about billionaires coming together with billionaires, and also they have open investigations going on, and so they can't tamper with the investigations. So when I do talk to them, I get limited information. Of course, it's not going to harm any of their cases, but I text a lot of congress and I've been able to get a lot of their cell phone numbers, and I will just rage text.

00:59:31
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people on the internet would like to rage text cons.

00:59:34
Speaker 2: Do you get responses from them at all? Is anybody responding to you?

00:59:37
Speaker 6: Oh? Yeah, definitely. I mean I think out here in California, Robert Garcia has been incredible. I think Eric Swalwell has been incredible with this. You know, Eric Swawall voted to have the congressional what sexual harassment stuff exposed? When so many people voted against that. Yeah, that was very strange to me, Like a ton of women voted against congressional sexual harassment allegations exposed.

01:00:03
Speaker 1: I saw that. That was unbelievable. And then it was like one of those things whereas the next day no one was talking about it anymore.

01:00:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, they made it exact way.

01:00:12
Speaker 3: And this is sort of my sorry, my last question for you. And I don't even know if you could really answer this question, but a few minutes ago you said something about how, you know, we're trying to sort of normalize pedophilia and sort of have it sort of become more acceptable. Why do you think that we are this way, because when I think about it, immediately I repulsed and I'm like, oh, that person belongs under the jail, Like, get rid of this person forever. Why do you think that there is this tendency to either go easy on these people, because it seems like if there was something we should all rally around is the protection of children, right, people who are innocent? You know these are I mean they're babies, they're kids. Why do you think that we have such a hard time in throwing down the Gauntland and saying absolutely not.

01:01:05
Speaker 6: Because you can only sell drugs once, but you can sell a child's body over and over again. So that's in an email in the files.

01:01:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.

01:01:14
Speaker 6: So it's money.

01:01:15
Speaker 2: It's money.

01:01:15
Speaker 1: It's money.

01:01:16
Speaker 6: It's not you and I. Right, we're not. I don't know if you guys are billionaires. I'm not. But you know I don't own giant corporations. I didn't start Victoria's Secret. It's them, it's Les Wexner.

01:01:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well, thank you for coming on the show.

01:01:30
Speaker 6: On that note, Yeah, it was really lighthearted.

01:01:35
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on. Do you have anything you want to plug, anything you want to promote. I know you have a book, out you want to maybe.

01:01:40
Speaker 6: Mention that, Oh it's kind of more like a pamphlet. But I did write a small book on setting boundaries.

01:01:46
Speaker 2: With your friends.

01:01:48
Speaker 6: Maybe you should set boundaries with the Epstein files.

01:01:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything you want to plug and where can we find you on the internet.

01:01:54
Speaker 6: And the book's called The Friend Cleanse if anyone really does want to set boundaries with their with their friends, toxic friends, but on Instagram and TikTok, if I'm not violated because of ebscene. And then my website, it's good to check my website. I'm going to be co producing several television shows and hopefully getting my own show soon, and so you know, just check back and see what's happening. But also I encourage everyone to vote, and you can go on my website and you can see where I have a link to the Courage candidates and thother candidates that are running for Congress who have a fucking background.

01:02:31
Speaker 1: That's great. We love that.

01:02:33
Speaker 2: We love that.

01:02:33
Speaker 1: I would love to check that out. Thank you for calling that to our attention. All right, well, thank you so much for wonder.

01:02:38
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Really, this was really interesting. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Leslie thanks, take care.

01:02:48
Speaker 1: That was I mean, and even me and I see all this shit in court all the time, and I'm still like, this is too much for me to hand.

01:02:55
Speaker 6: You know.

01:02:56
Speaker 3: It's one thing to sort of know that there are bad people out there, right, but this is this is beyond people.

01:03:02
Speaker 1: I think we always think of the villain as like the guy with the sche mask holding the bag of money with the dollar prints printed on. It's the burlap bat. And this is like, oh no, it's actually like the billionaires of America together in this network of like hedonistic heedophilic, like and there's also covers. It's just like, not only are you being asked to believe and I'm not saying that I don't believe her, No, no, no, Not only are you being asked to believe that people are so disgusting and awful that they would do something like that. Depravity is what institutionalized, and the institutions are compromised as part of it, right, Like these systems are run so deep that they're a part of that. The prison system could be part of a cover up Like that is just like so shocking and unbelievable, and people to really digest that. So the Epstein file drop. I think that was strategic, right, they released everything at once so the public was overwhelmed, and then it would the news cycle. They'd be constantly competing with the news cycle. Yeah, that was crazy. I'm shook.

01:04:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

01:04:13
Speaker 3: I actually don't. I don't quite know how to feel, do you know what I mean? I'm like disturbed, but also like again, and it's not that I don't believe her, it's more like my mind is blown that these people walk among us, right, that these are people. And I had seen something somewhere where somebody was like, we should be looking really hard at anybody who's a billionaire, because if you are a billionaire, there's something that you did that is not on the up and up, and that's how you got that.

01:04:43
Speaker 2: Now, I don't know if I believe that to.

01:04:44
Speaker 3: Be true, but it would sort of correlate with what you're saying, right, like, these are these it's the people at the very very top who have all this money and therefore have all this power and they're able to get away with doing these types of things.

01:05:01
Speaker 1: Right. It's like I think about this a lot in like a legal context when it comes to a class action lawsuit and I get a check in them out for three dollars for something horrific that a company did, and I'm like, oh, this is just like a rounding error in their budget. Like justice for them was like, uh, was like a decimal point that they misplaced on a spreadsheet somewhere. We imagined that billionaires in America got there because they were smart and talented and not crazy. Right, that's actually I think we're learning not true.

01:05:29
Speaker 2: No, don't. I actually don't think that.

01:05:31
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true either. But I think for a lot of people, they assume, oh, if you're a billionaire, you're really wealthy and successful, it's because you were smart enough to do it to get there. But I don't. I think we're a sort of culture is realizing that that is not at all the cases, not the case. That's actually a lot of billionaires can be crazy and psychotic and not smart and actually really stupid. So I think that's what we're sort of rubbing up against here. This is tails from the dams. We're going to answer all the KOOKI creat is the wild things you send me in my DMS and Melissa DMS friends.

01:06:04
Speaker 3: What I always say while Michael is a lawyer. He's not your lawyer, so get your own ready. Okay, I'm going to read this onecause I think is really funny.

01:06:14
Speaker 1: So these are reviews that people left.

01:06:16
Speaker 2: These are These are reviews, and if you.

01:06:19
Speaker 1: Want to leave a review for us on YouTube or Apple Podcasts or Spotify, we will read some of your reviews because.

01:06:26
Speaker 2: You guys are really funny. You guys are really funny and we appreciate it.

01:06:31
Speaker 1: I'm ready.

01:06:32
Speaker 3: So this is from the episode that we had with Yanna from America's Next Top Model, and this is from Laurie. Laurie says, sorry, I hate to be that bitch, but it's barkeeper's friend, which I'm not sure one would use on liquisite. It's for metal, which would scratch the enamel CODINGLA.

01:06:55
Speaker 1: I think she says sorry to be that bitch. I don't think she's sorry. I I'm that bitch too, So I'm sisterhood Laurie.

01:07:02
Speaker 3: But Laurie does redeem herself and says the following, I love Michael and Melissa's friends in real life energy. They brighten my Thursdays.

01:07:11
Speaker 2: Thanks Laurie, I will.

01:07:13
Speaker 1: And that is a good point though, because it wails scratch. I think there's metal in Barkeep's friend, and that's like the exfolian that you're using to get up, so you don't want.

01:07:20
Speaker 3: To use that. Maybe I was also not calling it by the right name.

01:07:24
Speaker 1: It was probably like Barkeeper's bestie or something. I don't know, something I probably was.

01:07:30
Speaker 3: No.

01:07:30
Speaker 1: I correct people all the time too, though, So if I have something in my teeth, Melissa will be like you always I have to. Well, I was pounding that almond croissant earlier, okay, and I had powdered sugar all over me.

01:07:43
Speaker 2: All right, I didn't.

01:07:45
Speaker 1: You didn't catch it, but I caught it, okay, and I knew, but I was like, if.

01:07:48
Speaker 2: I didn't catch you had a little something on your use.

01:07:50
Speaker 1: It stuck in my stubble and Almossa caught it before we started rolling. Yeah, that's so Laurie. We're right there with you, honey, Laurie. Okay. This is a heated rival reclip when we were talking doing a deep dive compeated rivalry. This is from Jessica. Jessica just says one line. Scott absolutely bottoms once in the show after Kip gives him.

01:08:12
Speaker 2: The socks, which is that all it took.

01:08:15
Speaker 1: He gave him socks and he immediately bottoms. But I will say he doesn't bottom in the books. He does, so he's not first in the books. So that's what I was saying, that the Old Testament and the New Testament are different.

01:08:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it happens.

01:08:29
Speaker 1: It's okay, it happens. I who among us hasn't bottomed after receiving a parasolic?

01:08:33
Speaker 2: I mean, some people don't even get sucks.

01:08:36
Speaker 1: That's true. A lot of people are bottoming for nothing.

01:08:40
Speaker 3: I love this because it feeds right into Michael's vanity. So this is from every woman has a man in their past who made them crazy.

01:08:50
Speaker 2: I stand by this.

01:08:52
Speaker 3: Yes, Red Rose says, this camera and lighting is so amazing.

01:08:56
Speaker 2: Y'all look like AI.

01:08:58
Speaker 1: Thank oh, hell yeah, thank you? Oh my god. We did a full He explained all the lightings before we dive. Because I and I want to know. I want to know what it looks like. I went to Sephoria. I said, give me the stuff for the camera. I don't want this stuff for every day. Every day I'm seeing friends own.

01:09:16
Speaker 5: No makeup look. I want the makeup look. I don't want the no makeup blod but I also had to today. I had to stop Michael Inness. I'm like, you're going to look a little too dusty. Dusty. We don't want that little Corpsey a little. We don't want cop not the true Blood. No, okay. And then one more, This is from Madame Lexi. These were a fun enjoying the show. Love their New Yorkiness.

01:09:40
Speaker 2: If you know, you know it's true, it's true.

01:09:43
Speaker 1: My dad's even more New Yorkie than I am.

01:09:45
Speaker 2: Really.

01:09:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I when I grew up Long Island, Long Islands Island, and when I talk to him sometimes I'm like, oh my God, like it's just to come out of me.

01:09:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, interesting, Keep it up, Devus, keep it up.

01:10:00
Speaker 1: Diva Divah. This one's subject Diva. Michael and Meliss are so good together. It's so funny. Diva is my new vocal stem. That is, I I want to make a ring tone, but I don't know how to do it of the Diva ring tone, and then it's going to go off in court.

01:10:16
Speaker 2: Well, make sure it doesn't, Michael.

01:10:18
Speaker 1: You know me, and you know I'm not going to make sure. I'm gonna I'm gonna forget to do really my zero went off during this show recording and when I was out in LA. It's just a normal Apple one. I feel like I could make it though, we could.

01:10:34
Speaker 2: You could probably do that.

01:10:35
Speaker 1: We'll get the head attack in here.

01:10:36
Speaker 2: I have a ring tone.

01:10:37
Speaker 3: I have like ring tones for everybody. You do, Yeah, yours is just regular. Yours is the my ring tone for everybody. For the gen pop is?

01:10:46
Speaker 1: What's it for your mom?

01:10:48
Speaker 2: A door bell? Oh she's here? Yeah? My brothers is. There was this song a long time ago called your little brother. Okay, so that for him?

01:11:01
Speaker 1: All right?

01:11:01
Speaker 2: Andres is it sounds like a computer, like a robot.

01:11:07
Speaker 7: Yeah, because he's a robot. Yeah, he's speaking of Ai. No, it's true, he is. Yeah, No, I get it. So we talked about the needle squishies last week.

01:11:18
Speaker 2: Did you get it?

01:11:19
Speaker 1: So I went back to the store. Well, I saw that sign and before I could even get inside, I look down. There is a red dot laser pointed directly at my chest. I'm not kidding, okay, And I look up about six hundred meters away. There she is the owner of the store, sniped me, huh. But on the door, I'm this is serious. This Bard series now on the door. There's a sign that says, if you want a nido, don't come in here, get lost, get ben and it said it said no more needles. And the FedEx delivery that I kept. She kept telling me come back for the FedEx delivery. It said missing. The FedEx delivery is missing. So I think one of these little rascally youths stole the needle package probably, and it's just wild in selling in the trunk. Hey man, I got needles for you don't have to.

01:12:20
Speaker 2: Really do you want? I think that's what you are? They all are? They all clear?

01:12:25
Speaker 1: No, they're different colors. Because she had one sample one and she held it up like the Hope diamond. You know how they do about an auction. It was kind of like that she had. She had art handlers. Yeah, she's holding it up really, And so I sent the photo to my niece, who cannot be satiated. There is no there's no under. An eleven year old isn't going to under. She's like, I don't care find it. She's like get in there, Sue, Like what are you going to do to get.

01:12:55
Speaker 2: The handle it?

01:12:55
Speaker 3: When Michael and bradw this look my favorite Metaline story when Michael and Brad were getting married.

01:13:01
Speaker 2: They were a little bit late, and I was talking to Madeline.

01:13:05
Speaker 1: And we relate to the ceremony.

01:13:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were late to the ceremony, and it was.

01:13:08
Speaker 1: There was a whole drama because I left Brad's suit in the city and it was a destination wedding, so he did not About thirty minutes before we've got two undre people assembled, we realized we don't have his suit. We have like jeans and a T shirt and I'm dressed like this. So it really was like a rags to riches story that we were getting. We put him in a cab and sent him to like a nearby suit store, right like local on Long Island, and I called ahead of time and I spoke to the woman, and this woman with such excitement she had been waiting her whole life to receive the call an emergency gay wedding. She was ready. She was seriously. I think there was like a button on the desk that she hit and like the wall behind her, oh yeah yeah, And like there were of clothing and she's like what size, and she had them hemmed and ready to go. By the time he got there, it was ready and he was at the ceremony two minutes late.

01:14:09
Speaker 3: Right, But according to Madeline, I was like Madeleine, where are they?

01:14:14
Speaker 2: And she was like, I don't think they're coming.

01:14:17
Speaker 3: She was like four or five years old, and.

01:14:21
Speaker 1: She was going around telling people we weren't coming to our own wedding.

01:14:24
Speaker 3: They're not coming, but like, but like I need for people to understand. Like she was this little bitty things glasses and like so cute, but also like like she's like I really think so, like standing steadfast in her conviction. They were not coming to the wedding. I don't think they're going to make And then I asked her to spin and she did, Yeah, she's like, this is my party.

01:14:46
Speaker 1: Actually, I was.

01:14:47
Speaker 2: Like, it's been for me. She did, but they're not coming.

01:14:50
Speaker 1: All right. So if someone messaged me directly on the Internet asking me about I don't know that that's so weird, like I was Grinder or something that wasn't it was the Internet. I just want to keep them anonymous. They said, Hey, Diva, I would like to remain anonymous. Thank you for keeping think you for not sending me your social Security number like some people. Do you have any information about EAD renewals. So an EAD is an employment authorization document that immigrants use so they can work. For TPS holders who are from L Salvador, so TPS temporary Protected status. It's basically like a ruling that USCIS Customs says, hey, if you're from this country, you get sort of like temporary status. We're not going to deport you right away. So this person has TPS from L. Salvador and they have an EAD renewal. The TPS is still valid until September, but the eed expired March ninth, so they're trying to figure out what to do when TPS is still ongoing but the eed expired. So if that's the case, you can reapply for a new EAD. But I do think you might have mixed up this question because from my understanding, TPS for El Salvador is still in effect until September ninth this year, twenty twenty six. So if your EAD has expired, you can apply for an EAD renewal now because TPS is still technically in effect for El Salvador. So that's the answer. So you're not shit out of luck like you thought you were. That is actually something that you can fix. And they wanted to say thank you for what you and Melissa do. You're such a breadth of fresh air trying times keep grooving.

01:16:35
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's very sweet.

01:16:37
Speaker 1: You're often grooving.

01:16:38
Speaker 2: I do the best that I can.

01:16:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't groove too hard because then you've got to go to the chiropractor. I know, all right. This is Briefree says thank you for joining us. I'll see you in court. I this has been an exactly right production recorded at iHeart Studios, Posted by me, Michael.

01:16:58
Speaker 3: Foot and me Melissa Albrand. Our producer is CJ.

01:17:01
Speaker 2: Ferroni.

01:17:01
Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.

01:17:04
Speaker 3: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Cottner.

01:17:08
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue Manessa Lilac with photography by Brad Obono.

01:17:15
Speaker 3: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark and Danielle Kramer.

01:17:20
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot.

01:17:25
Speaker 2: And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as.

01:17:27
Speaker 1: Melissa Malbranch got legal questions. Reach out at brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia dot com. Listen to brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and of course we're a podcasts with video. Search for brief Recess on YouTube