Tony Jacklin on the Ryder Cup, the Yips, and the Concession (Golf Club)

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by the Fridagg Pro Shop. If you're a fan of the Frida Egg, the writing the podcast, one of the best ways you can support us is by buying some gear. You know, not only do we make a little bit of money, not a ton on it, it also gets our brand out there, you know, if you're wearing them around the club or of course people ask you what the hat is, say hey, it's the Frida Egg. Great website, great way for you to naturally spread the word. If you are into what we do, check that out. The website is proshop dot Thefridagg dot com. Today's episode is with golf legend Tony Jacquelin. Tony was kind enough to join the podcast. It's a big week for him. He co designed the Concession, which is hosting the WDC Workday at Concession Club. It's a mouthful, but it should be a fun event to watch, really interesting design. There's there's some really great holes. We put up a video on the Concession. Definitely can go check out. There are some holes that should be really fun to watch the world's best players play some strategic ones out there, and Tony talks about his career. Obviously Ryder Cup legend, two time major winner, one of the all time golf greats. So, without further ado, here is Tony Jacqueline.

00:01:27
Speaker 2: I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:01:32
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a fried egg, Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Friday Frida egg egg, fridagg brid egg, lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump. I I wanted to start by talking a little bit about the Famous Five, the Europeans that came after you, and obviously you were their captain during the Ryder Cup era where Europe really became a force that it is still today. But can you talk a little bit about Sevy Bernhard Longer, Woozy, Sandy Lyle and Nick Valdo and what made them great players?

00:02:23
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, I mean obviously they're you know, their generation behind me. I knew them all basically when they came on the tour, I was already I'd already won my of majors and so so I saw them all come to the tours around the mid fifties. They all came on a similar time and I watched them, watched them develop, and of course they were all on my riding cup teams during the eighties and I relied on them a lot. I mean, they had wonderful careers. It was wonderful to see them all such scene. It was, you know, it was a terrific time for European golf, you know, and you know, to a sort of sort of pioneered dad, if you like. Was a lot of fun, and there was tremendous between them all. You know, they were all very different. You know, Savvy was obviously the first really European you know that that came along, and he was a swash buckler and he was something else, a true superstar and great charisma and all that. But in their own way, they all, you know, they all succeeded tremendously talented. Sandy Law was precocious talent. You know. I always remember my colleague who passed a few weeks ago, Peter Alice. You used to refer to Sandy as having nonsumant power, and it was it was beautifully put because Sandy just had that sort of short a bit of a backswing boy. When he launched it, it was he had fast hands. And then you had you know, the likes of Foul was completely different again. I mean he was he could call him solitary man. He was. He won tournaments and then changed everything in mid career. You know, he wanted to be as good as he could be, and he went to David ledbetter and and persevered with swing changes and came out the other end a better player. Six majors, you know, kind of says it all. And then you had Woozy, who came from the same part of the world as Sandy. You know, they were good friends, have been friends all through their lives, junior golf and all the rest of it. But to see him succeed and when in the masters was was terrific. I mean for a little, a little guy. He he had a powerful punch, you know that he was a great driver of the golf ball, and his size didn't stop him from getting out there with the big boys. So to see them all developed was a joy for me. And you know, I played alongside him for a little while anyway, and so no, it was a thrill to be to observe it all and to be part of it.

00:05:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a I find it such a compelling time in golf because here are these five guys that all play drastically different styles, and they all had drastically different personalities. Uh talk a little bit about, you know, your experience being captain and managing the personalities and the different styles, Like were their strategies for managing these guys.

00:05:58
Speaker 2: They were all friends first than foremost, and you know, basically I stayed out of my way. I mean, I you know they I won't go into the boring details, but in eighty one, neither Sevie or I were chosen to play in the Ryder Cup, and in Savi's case, he was arguably the best player in the world. So you know, when I accepted the captain's job, which I did purely on my own terms, you know, I told them, you know, if you don't do or if I can't do what I want, then I won't do it. And they gave me everything I wanted, and so I had no option but to say, Okay, I'll do it. And the first thing I had to do was get Sevie back into the fold. As it workaus he was as I was pretty teed off because of being left out in eighty one, but once he committed and you know, said okay, I'm going to help you. It was it was in hook, line and sinker. So I think the mentality of all of those guys, they were all they were all major champions, they were all winners at heart, and they all believed as I did, that there was no reason in the world we couldn't win the Ryder Cup. We'd all had a similar our young lives had all been very similar. We all looked up to America and what America had and what Americas so meant. You know, they had all the money, they had all the great golf courses, they had the climate that had playing for a fortune, whereas in Europe it was a bit different, certainly in my day, back before there was a European Tour. So at heart, we all had a similar outlook. And once we got this thing rolling and I got my basic requirements, you know, flying concord, and they're doing the same as what the Americans were doing. A big part of that thing was having a team room. You know, in Ryder Cups during my day, we never had a team room. We were a corner of a locker room. And the captain would tell us who we were playing with the next day, and then we would be free to go off with our wives and partners and have dinner in the local town and all the rest of it. Well, I never saw that as a proper way to gel and create team spirit. And so you know, the team room became the sort of central to everything. I mean, the boys, the guys had there's no reason to go anywhere else. Their food and beverage in there, whatever they wanted. It turned out to be a wonderful thing. You know, nobody wanted to be anywhere else when they weren't on the golf course. So that got that passion to win started. And of course the template has been the same ever since the et Is. I mean other captains have come and gone, but basically they all use that same same template. And it's been a wonderful well twenty or thirty years for the euro appearance. And and you know, they they truly are passionate about about Ryder Cup. I mean a lot of them have said that you look upon it as being a major you know, to be picked for the Ryder Cup team is to them almost I wouldn't quite got that far personally, but the sentiment is there, there's this enormous passion and Europe, regardless of where you come from, whether you're Stenson Sweden or Molini in Italy. When that Ryder cup rolls around as there's a sort of oh boy. You know, you talk about team and you talk about passion. This is it's something to see. It's really fantastic.

00:09:58
Speaker 1: So outside of the tea room and then just the flight, you know, the flights were there any what were the other changes that you made to the process.

00:10:09
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we couldn't travel with our caddies back in my day. You know, if it was in America, we had to take who we got. And clothing, I mean, we'd wear anything anybody would give us. I mean some of the some of the stuff was appalling. I mean plastic shoes. We had one year and the soul separated from the upper halfway around my match against Raymond Floyd in Pennsylvania. I remember one year and you know, your self esteem with all these issues was bruised. I mean, I think it's fair to say that, you know, we we were traveling on British airways, back of the bus, not knowing who was going to pay for the drinks or drag cleaning bill that way, and Americans were flying concord, and you know, they were wearing cashmere, and it's fair to say that we were two down before we hit the ball. And the first thing I wanted to do was remedy that by my demands. And you know, I got what I asked for, and somehow the European Tour and the PGA managed to pay for it. But you know, the reward was young and the players were unbelievable. I mean you talk about you know, I took care of them. I wrapped them in cotton wall. I did everything. I couldn't play for him, I mean, and they wouldn't have been there if they didn't deserve to be playing. So there was an appreciation on that front, and they showed it on the golf course.

00:11:56
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite story from the team room or from from one of those Ryder Cups that you think about most often?

00:12:04
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of stories. I mean, you know, I mean, I, as I said, I leaned heavily on the major winners. They got no rest, respite, and Save I used, you know, I could go and nudge Save and say, you know, that might be a player. You could see with his body language he was a bit sort of if he are not sure of himself. Maybe I used to say to see, don't give him a background, tell him how well you think he's swinging, you know, And and hey, he was on it like you know, you go of, hey, you know, you look good today. I see you on the practice, you know. And and it did wonders for morale, you know, to be able to use somebody like like save because he had he had an enormous charisma. And he having said that, he wasn't easy to pair up because most of his teammates were in awe of him and didn't want to let him down. But we, one way or another, we took care of all that. And then of course, when once lass belt came along in eighty five, whenever it was, you know, that was a match made in heaven.

00:13:21
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit. I did a lot of research today. I had found a lot of stories about what Seve would do to get under his opponent's skin. Could you talk a little bit about Sev's gabes wiship?

00:13:34
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean Seve was a consummate match player, and this is a nice little story. In eighty three, I partnered him with a couple of Spanish guys in practice and they didn't look comfortable to me. Again, it was back to the thing about being in awe of him. And we had a young player on the team that year, Paul Way. He was twenty years old and he just want to a big tournament that went with I think it might have been the PGA, And he was full of vim and vinegar, and I put him with Sev for the last nine holes of practice and he was great. You know how he was turned on by all this. Well, this looks good. You know, he's not intimidated. So I paid him together the first day morning and afternoon, and then again the second day in the morning, and he was going great because they were putting points on the board and you know, it was all working beautifully. And then at lunch time on the second day, a Spanish official, guy Hung Gayardo, came to me. He said, I think you need to talk to Sev. He's not happy. So this is a Palm beach gardeners now and it's ninety five degrees and I find him in the locker room and he's peeling his shirt off at lunch and I said, save everything good. Well, you know, he said, I said, well, what the problem was? He says, it's this boy, And I said, well, what about him? He said, I have to tell him everything. I said, you don't. Don't don't it at that club, don't chip with that club, do this, do that. He said, I feel like his father. I said, Sabby, you are his father in here. That's why you're playing with him, and you're putting points on the board. Is that a problem. And he looked at me for two long seconds. He said, Fummy, it's no problem, you know. But I actually thought he understood going in that he was. He was playing with the young Paul and holding his hand as it were, through this whole ordeal. But he hadn't the penny hadn't dropped, and they went out that afternoon ironically and beat Tom Watson and Bob Gilder and put another point on the board. I mean, it's invaluable stuff, you know. But I figured him for he got all he was. I have to tell him everything, said.

00:16:03
Speaker 1: If you imagine yourself as the twenty year old in the situation, you probably felt like he had to ask all the questions too.

00:16:10
Speaker 2: And anyway or I mean, they were a marvelous partnership In the end. I have to say I was always looking towards as a captain, trying to keep the Spaniards together, you know, to some degree because I thought, you know, national pride and all the rest comes in. There's plus they spoken the same language. But when Ollie came on the stream in eighty five getting them together, they were fed off each other. It was marvelous chemistry.

00:16:44
Speaker 1: So talking about your career a little bit, I read a Sports Illustrated article where you talked about playing in America as a European and how American players were a little averse to Europeans playing originally. Talk about how that perception changed over time.

00:17:03
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there were I mean the vast majority of the winners that the stars, the Palmers and Nicholas's and Trevino's, Johnny Millers, they didn't care. They were great. You know. Their opinion was if you think you can play, you know, come. But there was a group out there that didn't travel much. And you know, I think they were a mean spirited they thought and the American tools for American players only, and they were tough. They you know, they. I mean, we all had it tough when we were young, but these guys in the fifties and sixties, some of them, you know, they had a sort of developed an armor that you know, they were they were very, very self selfish, and as I say, they were the ones that bother to travel outside and see that they weren't worldly. And we had to endure that. We had to play through it, and it wasn't easy sometimes. You know, I've played many round with I'm not going to name names, but you know they never said a word to me from start to finish. They resented and especially after I won. That was you might have been all right before you won, but once you know, but it was actually good for me because it toughened me up mentally. And I mean I had the softest thing about me was my teeth back then, and all that sort of attitude from those handful of players helped toughen me up.

00:18:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were the first European player to win on the US Tour since the nineteen twenties. It kind of started, you know, you devoted a lot of time to playing in the US. How difficult of a decision was it then? When it wasn't necessarily the trend.

00:19:05
Speaker 2: Well, that wasn't difficult. I mean I made a promise to myself in my teens, and I made a decision that, you know, if I was going to do this, I wanted to be as good as I could possibly be. I wanted to be the best player in the world. And I know it was a long shot, a tall order, but that passion for the game, I had that and I was prepared to do whatever it took. I got my first invitation to the Masters in sixty seven by accident because the fourth player in European order to merit, Neil Coles, wouldn't fly and I was in the Far East and I got a telegram to say that, you know, I was number five on the list. So I came to Augusta that year and absolutely loved Actually I led the Masters during the after the eighth hole in the third round, so you know, I was only twenty three then, but I was hungry to learn, and I went to tour school that year. I had the first hole in one first on television in the UK and the Don Lup Masters, and I won that and I got my tool card. It was a tough year to get it because there was a lot of good, hot shot American players from the Walker Cup team deciding to turn pro as well. But I got my card in sixty seven, and I befriended Tom Wisecoff and Bert Yancey, who were equally committed to being as good as they could be. We were kind of like the Three Musketeers, I suppose, but I was learning off them and we would discuss not just on the golf course but at night over dinner, and we were all passionate to be good. And I got my chance at Jacksonville in sixty eight and I managed to to win there. It wasn't just winning there, but I got drawn with the Arnold Palmer and January the last day, I'm playing in front of Arnie's army. Coming from where I'd come from was no easy task. You know, you knew them well. They didn't care about what you were doing. It was all about Arnie and all the rest of it. But I managed to get through that, and that that was, you know, putting that kind of confidence in your pocket helps, and that when really was a precursor to being able to handle the pressure at the Open the next year at Lenham, and so it goes, you know, I mean you there's no substitute for experience. You know, golf is a game of truth. You can't make it up.

00:21:53
Speaker 1: Being close with Weiskoff, one of the things that I've heard talked about so much was the his immense talent and what he could do with a golf ball. Can you describe Tom Weiscoff's game for people like me that didn't necessarily get to see him play, you know, when he was in his prime.

00:22:11
Speaker 2: Tom's mentor really was bold. Tommy Bolt unfortunately had a little bit of Bolt's mentality in there as well, you know, perfectionist, that would be the understatement. But he still even to this day puts his right hand on the club just like Bolt. Anyway, I know I was. I learned by observing, you know, and playing and watching and copying and that sort of thing. But Bold, of course came from that the Hogan era. And you know, he and Hogan had great respect for each other. They understood the golf swing, they knew what made it happen. And of course Tom with his you know, a six foot three, it was like a guard he was. He stood tall, and you had that wonderful, wonderful swing and we worked i mean more or less solely on tempo. And to this day, you know, I've tried to get you know, I've got kids who were pros, and we discussed him. I still think tempo is a vital part of being good week in week out, you know, as all as my central thought. I mean, Tom would we would gone to range and he would hit wedges with his knees. I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but the focus was that was on flexed knees and just you know, turning. And the thing was, you can't simulate pressure when you're hitting balls on the range, but you can do things that when you are under pressure that help. And tempo is the most importan and because everybody when they get frightened or you know, tense, the rush and if you can maintain tempo thro out. I mean, it taught me every It was everything to me, you know, because I was a good player in the mid sixties. But when I got in a chance to win, you know, I would quick enough and my upper body would go faster than my legs. Once I learned that the legs went first, which Bolt knew, Wiscoff knew. It got passed on Nelson knew, Middlecoff knew, Hogan knew. I mean, we didn't know that over in England because the guys I was learning off from Max Faultner and Diaries and Peter Allis, guys like that, they were playing links golf courses where they got hammered with wind and god knows what, and you swing was compromised all the time. You didn't get time to work on technique enough. So when I I came to America, I mean, plugging in with Tom and Yance was priceless. I mean because they'd learned from from the best.

00:25:11
Speaker 1: So it sounds like coming over to America and playing in America was vital to your success later when you when you went back and won the Open Championship.

00:25:21
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it was again, you know, winning that Jacksonville tournament in sixty eight in the circumstances was a big boost mentally for me, you know. But make no mistake, I was just another player when I came to America, and you know it was Arnold and Jack that drew all the big crowd. That being said, when I went back for the Open in July sixty nine, there was a big, big interest in me. I mean, even when I turned up to practice, you know, there was next tation, I guess in amongst the British golfing public that you know, maybe Jacqueline can do something. And I had a good record at them. It was of course, I enjoyed playing, and I just I just got off to a steady start. You know, I'd realized that, you know, golfers as much mental as anything. I was very comfortable, and I was turned on, to be honest with all these people. I mean, all of a sudden, you know, they weren't following Arnold Palmer as they were week in week out when I was in America. They were following me. And I suppose it's fair to say, you know, I didn't want to let myself down. I didn't want to let them down either, And I just kept putting one foot in front of the other and doing all the things i'd learned I've been had by this time, I'd learned that the legs control the speed of the swing, or you can you control this bit of the thing through swinging through your legs. And you know, I got in position and I and I had the good fortune to hang on, you know, the final te shot, which is probably one of the hardest TA shots in golf because there's no room for era. There's a bunch of bunkers down that last fair way and if you get in any of them, you can't get on the green. And certainly with the old equipment, that was the case, and that final T shot sort of slowed it up. Corker, as Henry Longhors said, what a corker, And you know that was that was the do income true. I mean, when when you win a major, you're part of golf floor. It's it was. It was enormostly special. And obviously didn't know that I was going to win in twelve months when when the US opened, because there's no Europeans ever held them both together and they still haven't. Albeit I only had them together for a month.

00:28:06
Speaker 1: But yeah, how did the how did life change after winning? Uh? The Open? How how much you talked a little bit about when you came back that the fans were different, but when you after you won, how much different was playing golf?

00:28:23
Speaker 2: I mean the bottom line is, you know, I'd been traveling back and forth to America. I had a house in the UK. I never had a house in America. I had a base at Sea Island in Georgia, which was a wonderful and still is a wonderful facility. But my manager, Mark H. McCormack, he wanted me in Britain, and of course I should have been living in America. I was wearing myself out. I was back and forth six or seven times a year, and once you start a young family you've got you know, it's tough. And basically that's when the problems started. You know, I got run ragged by by IMG in those days. And there was no European tour then, and it would be about seventy two. I guess when I was approached by the acting sort of Supreme Bow in Europe to sort of, you know, maybe considered spending more time in Europe. And you know, the thought of that felt good because I'd already been like five years back and forth and it's a hell of a lot to do, you know, six or seven times, and time changes and god knows what else. It was a pleasant thought to be able to be closer to home. But you know I was, you know, were using me to spearhead destroyer European tour off the back of my two major wins and playing on golf courses that were not anywhere near as good a condition as the ones in America, and there's gallery control was virtually nonexistent and I was the only one that were watching. So it was a tough time. And I won tournaments each year here and there, but it was it was dragging on me, and it wasn't fun anymore. It was it become drudgery, and I think it fair to say that it basically manifested itself in my putting. I put a lot of pressure on myself, you know, on the greens. And by the time the eighties came around, I mean I won the British PG and eighty two, beating Bernhard in a playoff. But golf was about the only thing I did that made me unhappy because because of the nervous that, you know, I would get on the green and I've been to psychologists and God knows what to try and relax more. But I got anxious playing and it was the only thing I did. As I said that maybe on Habisa, I stopped doing it and went to live in southern Spain.

00:31:22
Speaker 1: You talked a little bit about the expectations after you went a major and getting kind of run around and all the different obligations. You had a similar you kind of felt Arnold Palmer fell victim to this also correct.

00:31:37
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it was life was not my own. I hadn't had anybody to learn from. I was. I was it, you know, trying to be all things to all people. You can't say no to this. You've got to do that. It's the right thing to do. We would go down to Japan and Australia when you were wiped out, you know, pretty much exhausted. You were required to do all this, and you know I maybe got a month respite during over Christmas, but then it all started again and it became, you know, nothing to look forward to. It was like a treadmill. You know, you're just racing. If you don't turn up, if your mind and body don't turn up together, you've got no chance. And so often my body was there, but my mind was playing catch up. You know, I didn't have that time to recharge my batteries. There was always somebody wanting a piece of me.

00:32:47
Speaker 1: I mean, this is something that Madern twur Pros still deal with today. You hear things of Ricky Fowler spending thirty days shooting commercials, and you know, you wonder, how can you stay at a world class level with that? You know, it's just a it's one of the biggest challenges of being a professional and then making money off the course.

00:33:09
Speaker 2: That's right, But of course the big difference is today that once these guys are up there for a year or two, they're made up. I mean, the rest of our lives taken care of. I mean, when I want my open, I want treats A four two hundred. So you know, coming from ordinary background, financial security was important and to make it anywhere worsewhile you have to do all of these damn things because the money. I mean, I had a worldwide contract with We're Dunlop, but it was ten thousand pounds. It wasn't two million or five million like these guys are looking at today. And also they've got, you know, wonderful examples now now of how to handle it. I mean, Tiger would be you know, from the point of view handling his time and all the rest of it. They've got a lot of protection out there and help from their teams and so on. So that side of things has come a long way. But you're absolutely right, You still have to and different people are able to do Some people are able to do more than others. You know, Gary Player was in my day, he would play twenty seven weeks in a row. I mean he was like but you know, at the same time we would get on and I mean I remember going to Australia with him on you and we went to all kinds of trouble getting sat next to each other for some bloody reason I don't know, And as soon as he got in his seat he went to sleep. We didn't wake up till we got to Sydney. I mean, you know, I couldn't do that, and I you know, you had the gift of being able to switch off and we're all different. But you need to keep your finger on your own Pulse's no doubt about that, because once that momentum goes, it's tough to get back into the rhythm.

00:35:18
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy two, you had the near miss at the Open where you know, and you talked about how that was kind of the kickstarter to your troubles on the greens. Have you got I imagine you've replayed moments through your mind. What have you kind of learned over the years of thinking about the putting and the struggles that you came to and if you could redo things, what would you do well.

00:35:45
Speaker 2: I mean, it didn't take me very long to figure out that putting is the most important part of golf. If you can't putt, you can't play golf. It's as simple as that. And you know, I must have been a pretty good putter at one time. I know, when I won the US Open, I put it lights out. It was fantastic. I thought I was going to put like that every every week. But it didn't. It didn't pan out that way. And I remember playing senior golf, you know, and I used to put the time in there as well on a couple of times. But I remember being in Phoenix one time at the Tradition and I came off the course, I putted crap again and I spent four hours on the putting green and there was this whole pro came over. He was peddling potters for some company or other, and he's watching me, and he says, you've got a great stroke. I said, no, I know. I said, that feels good. I said, but you know, I get on the course and I get nervous. He said, Tony, you can't put if you're nervous. It was like wall got it in one and you know that juncture. At that point, I'm backed off and I was you know, I'd spent hundreds of hours putting, even in my senior short seeing your career. But it was the killer in the end, as it's been for many people. I mean, and you're done, and it's very tough to turn and to convince, to convince yourself that it doesn't matter, because it matters more than anything.

00:37:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, you obviously you were one of the best golfers in the world at that point, and you know you struggled with the putting in We see superstars even today getting these ruts. What would your advice be a superstar that you know might be struggling, What would you say to them about getting out of their own way and how what worked best for you?

00:37:55
Speaker 2: Well, I think my problems when the putting started and I pushed myself too hard. I mean, I remember when I won the Open, I went and had a meeting the next day with McCormack and all I wanted to do was go and find a beat somewhere where it was sunny and lay and contemplate life for two weeks and get recharged. And he says to me, you can't do that. West Chester's on next week. It's the biggest first prize in golf. You're the Open champion. You're going to be there. And I came to America for a month and missed four straight tournaments. Four Now what do you think that did for my confidence? It wasn't until later that year that you see, my time, my mind took off anyway, because there was no more beans in the tin, that the tin was empty, The try was all gone in the Open. And you know, I was too bloody dumb to sort of say to McCay, you know I should have just such, you know, don't jump off a cliff. And I'm doing what I want to do. And now I would do what I want to do. But my problems manifested themselves in pushing too hard. And look at Nicholas eighteen tournaments a year. That was it done? That could offer him any damn thing. I know, I'm done eighteen because he focused on all the right ones. You know, I didn't realize it till the other day. He played in one hundred and sixty majors. You know, but his focus was on majors and his schedule was on majors the whole time. So it was he had a very intelligent way of going about it. And there's no doubt and when his course design came along, that was his escape, and that and the family were his escape from the pressures that you had to deal with on the golf course.

00:40:04
Speaker 1: You know, there's a good, perfect segue here. You brought it up. Talk about your relationship with Jack and how it came to be that you guys co designed the concession which is going to be hosting the tour event. In a couple of weeks.

00:40:19
Speaker 2: Well, sixty six, we played the World Cup in Japan and he played with Arnold and I played with Peter Alice. We became fast friends then, but pj National was just down the road from his house in sixty seven when I got my tour card and that was I was there a couple of weeks and you know, we went fishing and then by the time the concession at Royal Birkdale cam the Ryder Cup there in sixty and I came around, we were good friends and we went went through all that and we've been friends ever since. Again, it got Everything was based on money. My my European money wasn't worth anything. I wasn't exempt, you know, they didn't give me a free pass. So I had to.

00:41:09
Speaker 1: Play two majors that you're not exempt.

00:41:13
Speaker 2: Well, I was an exempt. I mean I had to rely on sponsors invitations, and if I hadn't won the fourth time up, I would have probably got a couple more exemptions and then been off. And I won a couple, but I was being force fed it again. I was playing thirty five tournaments a year because the likes of Dave stoppedon and Trevino never seemed to take a week off. It seemed to like going home. They were out there, so you had no option but to be out there, and you were being pushed and pushed and pushed. And I did this for like five years, and I came home and said to my wife Astrid, I can't do this anymore. And she said, well, what are you going to do? I said, I don't know, but not this. I said, this is it making me miserable. And so I sat up in bed one night at three in the morning and I said, I know. We built a golf course called the Concession and there was this developer in Sarasota. He was courting Jack. I knew he was courting Jack to do a golf course for the rich Carlton that was being built at the time. This is around two thousand and I went to him with this photograph of Jack and I coming off the green at Roer Burkedale, and you know, I told him the story and I said, you know, maybe if it's considering doing more than one golf course, you might think about doing a course and calling it the concession. He buys into this. He liked the idea, so it was great, but he was in in a lawsuit with these partners from the risk and it sort of it went on the back burner for a year or more and then he came and so let's do it. So we went to see Jack, and you know, we explained and he said, yeah, it's great, let's let's go. So we found the land, we got it done. We opened in two thousand and six, and it got golf digestive. And initially I said to Jack, you know, I'm prepared to let you take the lead. Really and this more prolific, one of the most prolific designers out there, said Tony. If we do it, we do it together, which is what we did. And I met him every day, came in, you know, six or seven, eight visits, whatever it was. We walked around together with his team and we opened and as I say, two thousand and six, and it turned out great. You'll see in a couple of weeks time. I mean it's of course it's too much for me anymore. I leave it to these young bucks. But it's going to be a feast. They're going to get beaten up, just like I've been beaten up many times around there.

00:44:22
Speaker 1: What what makes it so challenging? And if you could, what are a few holes that you're really looking forward to watching and play?

00:44:31
Speaker 2: No anyhow, I mean it's like playing Russian roulette. I mean one day it'll be the fourth hole and the next day it'll be it can come and jump up and bite you anywhere, and especially down the stretch. There's a lot of demanding T shirts. Greens are very very subtle. You've got multiple choices that are quite undulating, rolling you know, sometimes you know you can It's a bit like golf in Scotland. You can part from off the green for ten yards if you if you choose to. But it's it's a test and it's going to be interesting to see how these hot shots handle it.

00:45:17
Speaker 1: The greens out there are really tough, you know, you get it requires such precision into those greens, and especially I got to play it on a very calm day. I imagine when the wind blows, it's just a whole other beast.

00:45:34
Speaker 2: Well, and get a bit of breeze out there, and in February you can get through cold nights, you know, and they quicken up even more, they get foam and quick. And we've since we've built the course, we've both nines have been redone and we softened them a bit in places, but it's still it's still a hell of a test. And you know, there's no one hole that you could it's just so many great great holes and disaster looms anywhere. I mean, it's coming out here from all angles. It's very very demanding. Indeed, I am very proud to say one day I broke part. I shot seventy one off the tips when I was about sixty. That's just after we opened, and that was it. I never went back there again. You know, it's long, it's brutal and if it broke, if it blows, it's even more so. There's the thirteenth hole. But one I put this part five and one day I hit that green in three bit of breeze about like we were saying, and I pat it off the green, knowing it was going to be quick, and the pin was on the front, and as I addressed my tenth, the ball moved and we were going through a group and I picked it up, says gentleman. I made enough of full of myself on shoe in the clubhouse and we carried on, but you know I couldn't get back on the green. Yeah. It was one of these humpbacks where the pen was at the front thirteen you might remember it. It was elevated a little bit.

00:47:28
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's we had a front pin. It's like hitting and a hood of a Volkswagen.

00:47:34
Speaker 2: And I played Faldo. Nick came over and stayed and played one day and he did exactly the same as I did, put it off the green, and you know, made him a fool of himself. And we were playing in a semi fun thing with a few members watching. But it'll test them, it'll test them big time.

00:47:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know today still like the course Wreck from the Tips is a sixty six by John Rahm, and so I mean, it'll be really fascinating to see if over four rounds that that stands.

00:48:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're right. I know John's been out there a couple of times. Somebody told me that. The other day. My son Sean, he plays out there. He plays a lot with the Aisinger out there. Paul is a member as well, and they're both shot in the mid sixties there. But just because you should sixty six one day, it doesn't mean to say that the more you know about it, the more difficulty is. I don't know, it might be wrong, which will soon see anyway, but it's going to be interesting to see what what's called wins. I've got no idea what, of course, we don't know what it's going to be like. But a bit of breeze out there makes a massive difference.

00:48:53
Speaker 1: Well, Tony, I appreciate the time. We're looking forward to watching it. I think it'll be one of the more interesting tournaments of the year, just the there's a lot of space out there too, you know, there's not It's not like it's just narrow fairways and it's got you know, and it's got sides of greens exposed where it's you know, short grass, so it's a it's not just hard by, you know the obvious way. There's a lot of nuance to the challenge.

00:49:22
Speaker 2: That's right, it's it's a great test for good players to be honest off the tips. I'm in for amateurs. It's just it's it's too it's too tough, it really is. But we'll see all right.

00:49:37
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Tony.

00:49:39
Speaker 2: Take care.

00:49:45
Speaker 3: This episode was edited by Meg Atkins and Garrett Morrison, and we would be eternally grateful if you could give us a rating and a review on the iTunes, I don't know what it's.

00:49:58
Speaker 1: Called, Marketplace, Google Play, whatever you use your podcasts, Spotify, give us a rating, tell us what you like or don't like about the podcast, and thanks for listening, and stay tuned for another episode later this week.