Episode 27: The Power of Curiosity & Observation

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. Today, we are going to talk about random
stuff because a bunch of things just like happened
recently in life. And normally, Lori and I would
just talk about it and then start recording.
And I was like, why don't we just record it and
see what happens? So the one thing is Lori just
had a. camp a training camp which I am I swear
to god I'm still not over the fact that I couldn't
go because my dogs weren't beginner enough because
camps are so fun because you basically get first
of all you get to spend multiple days with your
dog just doing the thing you love, which is training,
right? And then you're hanging with them in the
hotel and you're around other like -minded people.
And I feel like I'm a big believer, and we've
talked about this, about seminars, about getting
information from different people. But it's still
a little challenging because it's a snapshot.
But three days, I think, is so much more productive.
versus one day or even two now yes it's hard
it's tiring mentally for you and obviously for
your dog but I don't know personally I think
I just love them I think they're great so anyway
I want it was your first time teaching a camp
so I just wanted to see like what did you think
about it like you know yeah it was um you know
when I had And a friend of mine had kind of brought
up an idea of doing sort of like a kind of like
an immersion seminar kind of thing, you know,
where like we just totally get totally engrossed
into tons and tons of small topics with the dogs.
Like we get into the weeds of a lot of things
instead of like just teaching. how to do a broad
jump or working on retrieves. Like we wanted
to really get down into the nitty gritty of things.
So after a while of thinking about it, cause
I was like, how the heck am I going to do this?
We decided three days because I feel like with
all the stuff I wanted to cover, I needed three
days. And it actually like, I could have done
even a fourth day. It was so much, you know,
because once you start getting into the nitty
gritty, then it like goes down another rabbit
hole. Oh my God, we can talk about this. And
that's kind of what happened over the three days
of the camp. Like we, I had it outlined with
many, many, many topics that we were going to
discuss and work dogs through. And of course,
like it would always go down another rabbit hole,
which was great. And I had kind of prefaced everybody,
like, just because I have all this on the. Like
the outline that I gave them every day doesn't
mean we're going to cover it all because we could
totally go in another direction. And they loved
that because they all had, they all had so many
questions. What was great about it was it was,
it was, it attracted a lot of more novice people.
which was great, who were just starting to trial.
Or I actually had a couple of people who have
never really even done formal obedience. I had
one girl who came who actually does search and
rescue. She wanted to see what it was all about.
She wanted to see if any of that stuff would
apply to her dog. And now she's like, I want
to do competition obedience. Like it was really,
really cool. Well, training, I'm just going to
jump in for a second. Like again, like I say
this all the time, right? Like training is training.
So don't limit yourself because it doesn't mean
like you could, I could go to an agility seminar
and learn things that I can apply to my sport.
I can go to Centwer, which I'm going to talk
about in a little bit. And like. bring that stuff
from that back to what I do. So kudos to her
for being so curious and open -minded that she's
willing to go out, you know, somewhere completely
to something regarding a different sport to learn
because whether she does obedience or not, the
information is going to be relevant if she's
willing to think outside the box and say, oh,
how can I apply this to what I do? Yeah. And
that's exactly what that camp's whole feeling
ended up being all weekend. Like we were just
depending on whatever level that person was at,
whether they had never been introduced to, you
know, formal obedience or participated in it
or people who were actively trialing. Like it
really like rounded all the edges to everybody's
like whatever niche they were currently in. It
was. It was great. Like, I loved it. In fact,
it like I it was it was hard because on my part
as the presenter, because I had to, you know,
you only have so many hours in the day and you
got a break for lunch. And so staying on task
was a little bit of a difficult thing, but it
was really good because we were able to. We were
able to touch on everything that I had outlined
and wanted to touch on and then some. What I
loved, whenever I'm new to presenting, so there's
always a little bit of feeling of like you're
looking out at your audience and they're looking
at you like with blank faces that they don't
get it or they're not interested. There's always
a little bit of that worry to me. I was like
floored by the active, like conversational piece
that everybody was participating in to the point
where like, I'd be like, okay, we're going to
move. We're going to work jobs. I have one more
question. I have one more question. Like I loved
that, like that just collective brainstorming
piece of it all, which would, which to me made
the camp like. you know, it just brought everybody
together. We all just had the huge conversations
about dog training. I just loved it. Like it
was, it was great. It was absolutely fantastic.
I think part of that is the camp format, right?
It's a little, like you have that little bit
of extra time. And what I find challenging as
a presenter is a lot of things, but one is like,
you know, if you know your material well, you
should go in with a mindset of being flexible.
Right. So when I look out, if I see people are
like not on board, I switch gears like immediately,
like I will immediately switch gears. And like,
it's hard. Like, I remember one time I went somewhere,
I did a seminar. It was supposed to be advanced
healing. Right. And I said, you know, It's really
hard to do advanced healing because you have
to make sure everybody there has the skill set.
Oh, yeah, we're going to do that. I get there.
It's a one day, which is really hard. Yeah. And
like, I don't know, 15 minutes in, I realized
that half the dogs are advanced and half the
dogs don't know how to heal. So now I have polar
opposites, right? So what I ended up doing on
the fly, probably one of the hardest things I've
ever done was giving two completely different
seminars simultaneously. Because I'm like, if
I do the advanced stuff, they can't do it. The
other half can't do it. And it's not fair to
the advanced people to do the beginner stuff
because they came for an advanced seminar. So
on the fly, I did like a 50 -50 and I was like,
oh my God, I was so tired. But like I've many
times, like I'll go do a seminar half the time.
I don't even know the top. I forget what the
topic is. I get there. I'm like, oh, that's a
topic. Okay. But then, cause I know that I cannot
follow my outline. I don't know who's going to
be there. I don't know what their skill level
is. Doesn't matter what they write in their papers
ahead of time or any of that. Like I have to
kind of see where are we at? You know, are these
people looking for general information? Are they
looking for how do I do this extra? Now, obviously,
I can't cater to every single person, especially
in a short one or two day or if it's a two day
and it's like one topic one day, one topic the
other day. Right. Um, it's really hard, but yeah,
I just like fly by the seat of my pants a lot
because I learned really early on that, like,
I have no idea. And, you know, you go to different
parts of the country. Holy Hannah, like. They
don't even train. They don't even use the same
verbiage. Like, I remember I was in California
and I said something and they're all looking
at me weird. And I'm like, why is everybody looking
at me like that? What's happening? I just say
it out loud because I don't care. And they're
like, well, this that means that here I go. Oh,
well, that explains it because that's not what
I was talking about. Yeah, that's like really
challenging. But I think from as a learner, you
have to also go into these seminars with an open
mind. Like everybody, you know, look, let's be
realistic. We're all selfish, right? We go there
and we want what we want for our dog. But you
have to kind of go with an open mind because.
you might get something you weren't expecting
and you're going to miss it. If you don't have
an open mind, you might be going there with an
expectation of one thing. And then if it goes
in a different direction, if you're resistant,
you could be like, well, that's not what I signed
up for, but what maybe you're going to get even
better information. Right. And the other piece
that I find challenging is like, especially if
it's not my students, right? Like. not going
to teach you my method in a day or two. Like
it's impossible. You're going to get a tiny little
window. So you have to be willing again, to go
in and say, let me see with what can I get out
of this? Maybe I can get one or two little nuggets.
Maybe it'll remind me of something I forgot.
Right. And if you get that out of it, I think
it's worth it. Definitely. It's super important
to approach it with an open mind and to also
like, you know, be empathetic to the presenter
who's like popping out of nowhere and like being
plopped in with a bunch of people. And you have
a tiny little window to share, like potentially
an enormous amount of information because you
can't really. touch on something you know everything
is so complicated in dog training it is it is
um but go like go to these things like so I was
just listening to this podcast and they were
talking about the chicken camps so for people
that don't know what the chicken camps are I
have not been to one so I just know the concept
it's This guru, Bob Bailey, he's been doing them
for decades. And basically you go to these camps
and there are many days and you learn how to
train a chicken, which apparently is super complicated.
Like, so you have to, your timing, they move
really quickly. So it really works on timing
of your marker, reading the animal, food delivery.
Etc. Right. And it's supposed to like everyone
that's ever gone is like it's like the best thing
they ever did. So now a few other people are
holding these chicken camps. And so this is so
random. I go to this nose work lesson and I pull
up and there's chickens in a pen. And the first
thing I think of is, oh, my God, I want to train
these chickens. So I said to the nose work trainers,
probably think someone's saying, I'm like, do
you think they would let us train the chicken?
And of course, she's a dog trainer. She's like,
really? You want to? I said, yeah, wouldn't that
be fun? Like, I'm like, I have no idea how to
do it. I have no idea how it works. But so we're
going to see if when it gets warm, if they'll
let us try and train the chicken. Oh, my God.
Yeah, but I think that it'll be so interesting
because it's going to be hard, right? And I think
that anything related, like I trained a pig once
and it was so fun, so fascinating because it
learned in a completely different way than a
dog. Like I clicker trained it. Um, but it learned
very differently. And I think anytime you do
anything like that, it's going to make you a
better trainer. Yeah. You have to do things like
there's no roadmap. I didn't follow a roadmap,
like how to train a pig. I just was like, I don't
know. They say pigs are smart. Here's let me
have a clicker. Mom, what is your pig like to
eat? It was a baby. It was a piglet. A baby is
the best thing ever. I don't know how pigs learn.
Right. Like, oh, so we just watch. And she was
a horse trainer. So she understood training,
not clicker training, but she understood training.
Um, and it makes you really observe and think
and problem solve. Cause I think when we come
into training with dogs, our brains are so cluttered.
This is what I want to do. This is what I want
to accomplish. Why is my dog not doing this behavior?
Right. And we miss that whole, like the whole
open -minded, like just. Problem solving, figuring
it out, learning. And it sounds like like these
conversations you had, like everyone's always
wants to do, do, do. That conversation is and
talking and thinking is such an important piece
of training. Yeah, for sure. That we totally
don't is overlooked. It's totally overlooked.
And I think there's also. a little bit of like
a mindset out there too of, you know, can you
just give me the answer? You know, what's the
magic, what's the magic pill for this? You know,
like instead of that whole, like, let's just
rip it apart and try to figure it out, even though
it might take X amount of times to get the answer.
Like, that's why I love, you know, and you too,
like, that's why I love training is how the heck.
How am I going to fix this? How am I going to
teach this to this particular animal, right?
Like, that's what I love. And the camp was perfect
for that because the audience, they were relatively
new. So they really got a chance to have those
discussions, which I think were mind -blowing
to them. And it really inspired them. Like I
felt when they left, they were like, oh my God,
like I didn't even know about that. I didn't
even realize like that with training. I'm so
inspired. I can't wait to go apply all this,
which was like that just was, you know, worth
its weight in gold for sure. Like that takeaway
for many of the people. What really was a big
eye opener for a lot of the people too is. being
there for three days like you said like being
in a hotel um a couple people like they definitely
like voiced that like their dogs were starting
to get really tired their dogs some of the dogs
actually weren't feeling a hundred percent there
were some cases like where the dogs were starting
to have some diarrhea that the people were tired
like this was a And I kept saying like, this
is what we do on the road when we go away and
go to two day trials or three day big events.
Like this is something that your dogs do need
to be able to start to handle if that's like,
those are your goals. Because it is a big, important
piece to consider. Taking your dogs on the road
is a big deal. You've got hotel, like there's
stress factors in there. So that also was a big
takeaway for many people on that piece. And they,
and they, you know, aside from. the adjustment
and really seeing how it affects their dogs like
they really did love it too like just being in
the building every day for three days with like
it was like camp like literally yeah yeah it
is now it was so cool it's fun I think that you
know you said that they a lot of them were more
beginners but I think for even more so like the
advanced people. Cause I think people just get
in this rut, right? They're like, this is what
I do. This is how I do it. The dog should comply
to how I do it. Or they just get kind of stale
or they get, you know, and again, they lose that
whole thing of let's just sit together and talk.
Let's figure this out together. Let's problem
solve this. Let's break this down. hey i heard
this or i read that what do you think about that
like yeah um like to me i'm always like i get
so excited i'm like let's have a conversation
about this to somebody that like i know and trust
and it just and then it brings excitement back
to my training and it keeps the training like
fresh and fun Well, like I said, I, I did a nose
work lesson yesterday. So basically like when
I had my physical therapy for dogs facility,
I had girls that worked for me. I had girls that
were interested in training. And so they used
to just take my young dogs and go off and I don't
even teach them 8 ,000 tricks and do nose work.
And I don't even know what they all did. So like
my one trainer is really good. she had done some
nose work with Zesty. I don't know. I never actually
saw it. So I had no idea what she did, right?
So Zesty's articles, I don't know what happened.
He's just lost confidence in his articles, right?
And I've been doing games and stuff. It hasn't
been working. So the other day I'm like, oh,
she did that nose work thing with him. Like,
let me, I don't know. Let me see if I can do
something with that. So I take this, she had
this bag with like all the tins and things in
it. It's been in my basement for I don't even
know how long. Years? Well, yeah. So I pull it
out. So I pull it out and there's tins laying
in the bag. I have no idea if they smell like
anything. I'm smelling it. I don't know. So this
is how unbelievably amazing our animals are.
And this is why when people do too much for the
dog and don't let the dog problem solve them.
you have no idea what these creatures are capable
of so I take this tin I don't even freaking know
if it smells like anything I go next to my car
I show it to him he nose touches it and he looks
at me right because he's like that's what I do
with a tin so clearly she taught him a nose touch
train a final a response right so I feed it a
cup I do it a couple times I say wait I go to
the other side of the car I put it like in a
spot on the fence right I go around. I say, OK,
his release word. And I go, go find it. I'm like,
I don't know what word she used. I don't even
know. Right. He runs around, starts sniffing,
finds it, indicates it. I'm like, holy shit.
Right. I go, maybe that was an accident. So I
put him back in the other side. I hide it somewhere
else. Let him out. He finds it. I'm like, I got
to do this nose work thing with this dog. Right.
So I call this person up. Now I did some nose
work with Tyler a thousand years ago. I call
this trainer up. She's around the corner from
me. I go, can I have a lesson? Yeah. So I tell
her, I don't know what, you know, whatever. Can
you just see what this dog can do? So she just
like hides, goes in this room, like twice the
size of my garage, clutter everywhere, puts three
hides out. Zesty has not done this with me. With
me, he does. obedience so he has no context right
we're in this place with chickens right and uh
i go in the building and i just go sir she looks
at me i go find that's his like article word
and i like shoo him with my hands and he freaking
goes and he finds the three hides yeah i'm like
how is this even possible so anyway so we did
more but I said to the trainer, I know in nose
work, one, you know where the hides are or when
you teach it. I said, but later on in the more
advanced levels, you don't know where they are.
You could be, it could be a blank room. I said,
well, don't tell me because I want to hone that
skill. I don't know if I'm ever going to show
them in nose work at all, but I want to do that.
Right. Because as a trainer, it's observation,
sharp observation, right? like of the dog. And
I think that's a really important skill that
people don't have is reading their dog. And so
I want to take this opportunity doing this random
thing that I'm just doing for, I don't even know
if I'm going to do anything with it and really
watch the dog. And it was so fun and so fascinating.
to me just to watch him and he's obviously there's
genetics involved he comes from you know strong
detection so you could see that kick in you know
which is super interesting but um so people should
just work on that like And it got me so excited.
And then I left and I called up Riley who trained
him. I'm like, you did such a good job with him.
And I'm like, so excited. I already set up another
lesson for next week. Oh, good. It was so fun
and so interesting. Yeah. Giving him something
else to do. He loved it. Yeah. You know, and
then halfway through, this is what a knucklehead
I am. Like halfway through, all of a sudden I'm
like, you know what? I think this other girl
that worked for me way back taught nose work
to Zaina. So like I said that out loud and the
instructor's like, you know, I think she did
some lessons with me. So I. don't know I'm gonna
see if Zaina knows it too I think so then I said
something to Riley and Riley goes yeah Sarah
taught nose work to Zaina I'm like she did she
goes yes she took her to class I go oh I don't
even remember she took her to classes and stuff
I don't even remember oh my god so I'm gonna
have Zaina um Zaina try it too but like um so
the point is like Like, is that going to do anything
for my obedience? Well, one, it'll give them
something else to do, which is a nice mental
break for them, like a nice mental shift. I think
I'm going to, I do think I'm going to learn things.
I think you're definitely going to learn things,
especially because like we, you know, the. the
the scent discrimination piece of our obedience
you know like I don't want to say it's not natural
I mean they are going out to use their nose but
to me it's not organic like it it is when we
do like nose work and they're actually out like
in the environment searching and hunting and
I just feel like you are going to probably see
and discover a lot of things in him you know
like his just his behaviors when he's actually
searching and hunting that could give you some
sort of indication on you know the the whys of
things that might be happening in your obedience
you know what I mean yeah about it and we also
talked about um you know we were talking about
arousal there and because we talked about it
I started really watching him yeah so um because
you know he comes also from lines where they're
in like his arousal can be like insanely off
the charts in the blink of an eye and but he
doesn't most people don't see that because she's
looking at him and she's like wow like he's so
thoughtful and he's so this and that and I said
yeah but I said that's training And I said, just
watch. Right. And she would then she started
really watching. And in between, she could see
like all these things I was doing because I said,
see right now. And like because after a few reps,
he started going, oh, this game is fun. So she
goes to hide and he starts going, oh, she's putting
things out there. Now I'm getting excited. And
all of a sudden his, yes. And I said to her,
see that I said now, and then I immediately did
things to stop that. Right. Like I redirected
his attention. I had him do tricks. I had him
do thoughtful, slow tricks. Cause I'm like, I'm
not going down this road where you're going to
start screaming your brains out because you know,
somebody's putting hides out. Cause that's not
going to be productive. Right. So we started
talking about that. And then, you know, and that
led to like watching that, like like a little
subtle things, not like letting it get to where
he's screaming. I'm like and then it made me
realize, like, you know, I do these things and
I don't even know I'm doing it. Like I just was
automatically doing it. But because she had said
something, I was watching and then I pointed
it out to her. Right. Um, but it just reminded
me like of how important it is for people to
observe their dog, like really observe their
dog moment by moment, because like a lot of times
they don't notice things until it's like extreme,
right? Their dog sitting there. And then they're
like, oh, should I have a problem? Yeah. No,
you could see that. way sooner yeah way in there
and like I you know even with salty now he's
he's uh five months you know and he's doing his
tens you know for his articles we're just starting
to do some articles but I am now like seeing
like I've got to watch it because he like there's
things I'm starting to see you know like he has
this like unbelievable desire to do this now
like this is fucking off the chain for him so
I'm starting to see some stuff that I need to
definitely like regulate or watch carefully or
be able to work some arousal modification stuff
in because he like there's things like he now
he's starting to vocalize when he sees me put
the stuff out, you know, he's going out to the
pile, like a freaking madman. And there's like,
you can just hear him like, and he's only five
months old. Like, and I just, two dogs ago, I
wouldn't even have noticed. I would have been
like, Oh wow. He really loves his articles. But
I know now. Like, yeah, that looks great. You
can see like, wow, that dog really loves to do
it. But those are the things like I'm like, oh,
boy. Yeah, no, because that's going to go. Yeah,
like I remember. So Tyler was my first like high
drive field dog. I literally went from a breed
dog. Yeah. To a super high powered dog. I was
pushed into it. I was terrified. I didn't want
to long story. I'm not going to bore everybody
with the story, but anyway, so I have this high
powered dog, right? So he's, but he's okay. You
know, five months old, still good. Right. One
day, I think it was around six months, give or
take. We're walking from the car. So I was doing
field walking from the car to, you know, the
spot where we're going to do field. And all of
a sudden he kicks in. And I'm like, holy Hannah,
what is this thing next to me? He's like screaming.
I can't like hold heel position. And I was like
completely rattled. I was like, I don't even
know what to do. I don't know. Cause literally
this was my second dog. Right. And so my trainer
that had bred him and was like, you better do
something about that now. And I'm like, dude.
what i was like right because i went from like
this wonderful puppy to this like raving lunatic
yeah and um you know the only reason i got that
dog was because i knew that I had that help right
because that was the agreement I was like I cannot
take this animal if someone doesn't help me because
it is outside the scope of my ability level right
but had I not had that help and dealt with it
then and then consistently every day moving forward
like I would have had a big problem and i would
have never like accomplished anything yeah with
that dog yeah no so yeah like it's important
to start dealing with that stuff like you know
the recognizing it you know like that's the thing
like i now can see three dogs later you know
i had mary elizabeth who was a breed dog You
know, I didn't have any of that with her. And
then I got Ever. And yeah, she's got tons of
dry, but she's a super low arousal dog. Like
it takes me to manufacture that. Like I got to
pour on the gas quite a bit to bring her there,
which she can. But this pup and Stormy, then
there's Stormy who just lives in high arousal.
But she's different. Like there's a difference
there. Like this puppy is a whole new ball of
wax for sure. you know because he's from working
lines right and like if you refer back to our
interview with kate right and you know that's
what like kind of like there's performance and
then there's working and that's just like a whole
nother ball of wax right these dogs are just
monsters. Like they will run you over. Yeah.
Like even now, like at five months and you know,
like I love it. Like we talk about that. Like
that's what we love. We want that. But on the
other hand, like I gotta be super diligent and
making sure that things are capped appropriately.
Well, it's a skill, right? Like I, I never, like
we, I talk about this all the time. People see
the end result right so like this um instructor
sees zesty working um people see zesty in the
ring and that's what then they want that right
and then they call me up or email me or whatever
and they're like where do you get your dog and
i'm like you do not want that right a lot of
times i literally can't convince them because
they don't see what is behind the scenes they
don't see what they're like in life they don't
see what they're like in training they don't
see like what we have to do constantly they don't
see what we've done to get that like um very
few people like at work like they just Yeah,
they don't understand. And it's very hard. And
then if they do get a dog like that, even though
I tell them not to, I can tell you countless
times those dogs have been washed out, like meaning
they can't work them. They can't do the things
they want because they can't get what they need
out of that dog because those dogs are too complicated.
Like they're too hard. Like you have to, you
know, so like when we went and looked at Salty
as a puppy. 99 of the people i would have said
no don't take that puppy because i knew on that
day i know what that dog is going to look like
right in six months in a year in two years in
three years and i know that if you don't have
the skill level you are not going to be able
to manage that dog yeah um you know so people
have to keep that in mind like there are plenty
of dogs that have a lot of energy and drive and
willingness to work but that are not so like
you know over the top that right right have a
certain skill set yeah yeah because there's definitely
a trade -off you know like living with a dog
like that you know for sure You know, I have
to like I keep meaning to do it, but like it
happens at odd times and like I don't tend to
have my phone on my body. Like just filming him
like in the morning or heading out the door every
single time I get up or, you know, when I get
to a place where we're going to hike and there's
mass chaos in my truck, like three dogs screaming
their brains. yeah oh my god oh my god yeah yeah
i know all right so go to seminars people go
to camps um you're having more camp well i shouldn't
say that because you're already full so yeah
but we are yeah so we're gonna we're doing a
spring camp and it like filled really fast so
I decided to do a second like an identical second
one so that filled too so the I'm definitely
going to be doing these twice a year. I'd like
to stick with just doing one in the spring and
one in the winter. I think they're super important.
They are for every level. I do change them up
a little bit, but they are beneficial for anybody
at whatever level, I assure you, because it is
that immersion feel, which I think, for some
reason, this camp really brings that piece together,
which I think people... really benefit from and
they really love so well it's having that extra
time and it's not necessarily having like a specific
topic per se right like like when I go and and
I do somewhere and I do a two -day don't email
me I don't do them anymore I'm doing one for
Lori as a because she's my friend But when I
did, it was like day one. It's this. So it's
like one day on a topic, which is insanity, because
like there's no way you can cover even remotely
close to like a percentage of that topic. And
you're trying to cram as much as you can into
one day. And then the next day, it's a different
topic. So now you're trying to cram everything
about that topic like into one day. Right. Which
is not to say they're not beneficial. They are.
It's just a different feel and a different it's
just different than when you have multiple days
and all those days are geared towards kind of
like one goal or one top, not one topic, but
like, you know, in one direction. And that gives
you and you have more time. So it gives you like
a little more flexibility and you can go down
some rabbit holes. But regardless, seminars are
always beneficial. Like you're doing one and
it's just one day and I'm going to come for that.
And it's on Mondio. So like, whatever, I don't
care. I just want to learn, you know, any sport,
anything I'm fascinated by. I'm going to learn
things from like. I've learned things in every
sport and they apply to all the things, to all
my other sports. Dog training is dog training.
So like be excited, be open -minded, learn, you
know, and have fun with it. Yeah, definitely.
All right. Cool. All right. Thanks everybody.
Thanks for listening. Thank you. Bye. Bye. I
changed my bye.