242 | Children Deserve Therapy: The Case for Child-Centered Play Therapy

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child center,

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play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am answering a question from Yehudis

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in New York. I've actually answered one of her questions before,

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but this one is a much deeper level question and I emailed

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her back and I told her I was so grateful for this

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because she's observing what I'm observing, what I suspect many of us are observing

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and

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it's a pretty complicated question and it's pretty lengthy.

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So you might want to put your seatbelts on and make sure that you're comfy.

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But I want to dive into this because I think this is really, really important to

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understand what is going on. What I think is likely the cause behind it

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and maybe how to better articulate and communicate

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in a different capacity.

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Why we disagree with the hypothesis that's being presented. So

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let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in.

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She says I'm not sure where to start.

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Because at least half the time when I listen to an episode,

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I think that I should email you

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sometimes with a question, sometimes with the content, but often with another,

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with nothing other than appreciation for the content that you're putting out.

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I listen to the podcast on my commute and your enthusiasm.

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Clarity and the info you share sets my tone for the whole work day.

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I'm so happy about that.

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I could send an email that would be pages long

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if I wrote everything on my email Brenna list.

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But for now, I wonder how many of you all have an email Brenna list?

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I would like to know about that.

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But for now, I have a dilemma. I'm hoping you could address in the podcast.

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Here's my question in the past year or so.

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I've been seeing a trend where more and more therapists talk about child therapy

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as a quote, last case resort.

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That and I quote,

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when there's a child who's having a hard time,

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it's almost always the parents who need help.

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End quote.

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The belief is that ideally you work with parents

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and meet the child only if needed to help in working with the parents.

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And that working with the child directly is only done almost

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as a cop out when parents aren't willing to quote,

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do their own work.

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I've had one therapist go so far as to say that this is colluding

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with parents who want to shift the blame for family dynamics onto the child.

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When I've tried engaging these professionals in more conversation about this,

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I often get the comment that quote, children don't have agency over their own lives.

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So if they're in a crappy situation,

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their one hour with you is not going to make

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a difference because nothing is changing outside of their own lives

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in their hour with you,

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adults have more control over their lives.

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They can leave a marriage or change jobs, et cetera.

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So therapy can be more effective. End quote.

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This attitude bothers me on so many levels.

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Me too,

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especially in the way that it insinuates that

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parents are the source of all child problems

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and also that children are not humans in their own right,

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who are entitled to healing growth and support in therapy

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besides,

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isn't all therapy more about changing the person

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than having them change their situation or circumstances.

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I realized that working with children in difficult situations

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can leave us as therapists feeling helpless when we wish that we

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could change their circumstances and don't have the power to do that.

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I

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don't work with adults.

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So maybe in the adult therapy world,

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you feel less helpless because you can tell yourself that the adult is

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choosing not to change.

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I'm not sure I fully understand where this comes from,

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but I've heard it one too many times that I'm really grappling with it.

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Now,

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I believe with all my heart and soul and the power,

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beauty and importance of play therapy

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and working directly with children.

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So this dilemma is more about how

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to intelligently communicate this to other professionals.

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And since you are way more articulate, articulate than I am,

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I'm hoping that you could discuss this on a podcast episode so that I can borrow your

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language as I continue to evangelize and educate

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the public about the work that we do.

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I don't know if this makes a difference.

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But when I've heard this from adult therapists, I chalk it up to ignorance though,

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I'd still like to be able to educate them.

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But lately I've been hearing it from professionals

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who see all ages and have no specific play therapy training,

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but consider themselves experts in working with children

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and feel that their opinion about this is valid

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as an aside,

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people with no training in child therapy who have a sand tray and deck

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of cards in their office who call themselves play therapist or child therapist.

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Bugs me to no end. But that's for another soapbox.

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Oh my gosh. That is a good email right there. OK.

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So

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let's dive in. Gosh, I have so many thoughts and in no particular prioritized order,

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these are just my brain dump of thoughts. So

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let's start with

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the

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allegation or the assumption

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that

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kids I'm gonna go back to see if I can find exactly what you said.

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A child doesn't have agency over their own lives.

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So if they're in a crappy situation,

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their one hour with you isn't going to make a difference

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because nothing is changing outside of their hour with you.

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Ok.

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So,

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while that is loosely true,

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let's, let's go with that assumption for a moment.

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So kids don't have agency over their lives. We talk about this. A lot. Kids are told

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what to do, where to go, when to go, why to go, how to go.

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They have very little power and control over their lives.

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They certainly don't have control over their family dynamic.

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They don't have control over. If parents get divorced,

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they don't have control over siblings.

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So

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I'll,

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I'll be in that camp. Kids don't have a lot of control over much.

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They don't have a lot of agency over their lives.

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Which is exactly why CCPT

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means so much to a child.

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It's exactly why CCPT is the most helpful

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approach for a child because they don't have power.

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They don't have control

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and what gives some back to them.

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The child-centered approach,

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the playroom,

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the relationship with a CCPT

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play therapist.

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We recognize kids don't have control, don't have agency,

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don't have power over circumstances,

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that's very helpless,

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that's very defeating.

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That's very overwhelming.

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And when we can say,

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yeah, your circumstances are what they are.

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But

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here's a new relationship, here's a new environment,

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here's a new opportunity to have control, have power, be in charge

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that is so healing and freeing for a child.

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Why would we not want the child to be afforded that opportunity?

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So

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if we go with that line of thinking, they don't have agency,

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then by God, we better give them some opportunity to have some power and control.

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Secondly,

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we know

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clinically speaking across all modalities across all ages of clients,

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the client

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or in a more

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psychological term, the identified patient

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is

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the change agent for the entire family.

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Let me say that again,

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the client who with us is the child

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is

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the change agent for the entire family.

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Because the person that's in therapy doing the work

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creates change,

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it becomes a catalyst for everyone to change whether they like it or not.

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This is the really amazing thing about therapy.

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Think about the legal skills of justice,

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the

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balancing

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metal circles,

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I'm sure there's an official term for that.

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But whatever the things that hang from the chains on the legal scales of justice,

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whatever those things are called

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that finds its natural homeostasis

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amongst family members.

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And when the child who's one of those

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metal circles

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starts to add a pebble

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or take a pebble away,

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the other side

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moves.

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It's the natural ebb and flow of family dynamics.

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So if we work with a child,

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even if the parents

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have all of the power and control

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in the relationship and how it goes,

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the child starts to make changes within him or herself

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and then by default, whether they like it or not, everyone else changes too.

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You can't keep your scale where it was. When the other side of the scale

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has gone up or down,

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it's impossible.

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So when the child becomes more regulated, when the child becomes more

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communicative,

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when the child becomes

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a person that has higher self esteem,

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when they have a better emotional vocabulary,

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when they have worldview,

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when they make these changes in the playroom,

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everyone else in the family has to recalibrate and adjust.

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So why would we work with

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a, with parents

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to the exclusion of a child

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when the child can be the change agent in the family,

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they become the catalyst for familial change.

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That's my second thought. My third thought

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is we know there are four universal outcomes to CCPT.

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I would love to see a world

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where every human

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has experienced the four universal outcomes in their life.

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Can you imagine that

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every human has regulation?

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Every human has emotional vocabulary,

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every human has healthy self esteem

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and every human has a robust worldview.

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What do you think this world would be like if that were the case

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far improved in my opinion?

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So

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a child, regardless of parents circumstances, regardless of family dynamic,

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regardless of anything that's going on.

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If a child goes through CCPT and gains those four universal outcomes

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that makes the child and the world a better place.

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So I would argue just for that.

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I mean,

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there's so many other reasons why CCPT is helpful but just for those four outcomes,

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I would say it's worth it.

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My forethought

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is we know this is well documented

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that CCPT works even when nothing in the child's world changes,

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that's been a long running argument.

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Well, if you do CCPT and the child still goes back to a toxic environment,

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if you do CCPT and the child is still in an abusive relationship.

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If you do CCPT

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and the

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parents' divorce and contentious chaos is exactly the same

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if you do CCPT and

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basically

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nothing else changes.

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You know, is this even worth it?

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And what do we know

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that the child builds, coping?

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The child builds resilience.

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The child builds problem solving.

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The child builds self esteem.

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The child builds regulation

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and guess what, when those things become a part of the child's life,

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they can handle anything better,

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anything.

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What used to be? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. What if, what if, what if

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I can't? I can't, I can't

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guess what

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all of that changes too.

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I'll be ok.

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I'll figure it out.

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I hope that doesn't happen, but

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it'll be fine.

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Imagine a world full of people that think that way

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when a child,

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no matter their circumstance

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is afforded CCPT,

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they become stronger,

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they become more capable,

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they become more confident,

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00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:39,109
they figure things out.

262
00:12:39,270 --> 00:12:42,549
They take initiative. They have internal locus of control,

263
00:12:43,739 --> 00:12:45,760
everything about their lives get better.

264
00:12:45,770 --> 00:12:48,400
Even if their circumstances don't change one bit,

265
00:12:49,570 --> 00:12:52,390
they go home and they're not unnerved by things anymore.

266
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,390
They're not overwhelmed by things anymore.

267
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,510
They don't get anxious about things anymore.

268
00:12:58,469 --> 00:12:59,140
So,

269
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:03,809
if we want children to be able to handle any circumstance,

270
00:13:04,989 --> 00:13:06,739
we don't force someone else to change.

271
00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:08,849
So they don't have to deal with a circumstance.

272
00:13:08,859 --> 00:13:11,549
We equip them to deal with circumstances.

273
00:13:11,950 --> 00:13:14,330
That's resilience and coping and problem solving.

274
00:13:16,210 --> 00:13:16,890
Ok.

275
00:13:17,130 --> 00:13:18,369
My fifth thought,

276
00:13:19,479 --> 00:13:21,380
potentially the most offensive.

277
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,890
I'm treading lightly here y'all.

278
00:13:24,770 --> 00:13:25,599
Oh boy,

279
00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:29,030
I would argue

280
00:13:29,450 --> 00:13:29,960
that

281
00:13:30,299 --> 00:13:35,599
all of these people about whom you're speaking in this email. You who is my argument

282
00:13:36,229 --> 00:13:38,979
is that they are advocating for working with parents

283
00:13:40,270 --> 00:13:42,500
because working with adults is easier

284
00:13:44,369 --> 00:13:46,659
and if they could hack it, working with kids, they would

285
00:13:48,289 --> 00:13:49,010
said

286
00:13:49,349 --> 00:13:50,849
with love and grace.

287
00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:54,150
Do you know how easy it is to work with adults?

288
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,599
And I am not downplaying the skills and the training and the experience

289
00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:02,200
of adult therapists. I'm not,

290
00:14:02,919 --> 00:14:07,390
I, you know, my heart, I'm not being critical. I'm trying to juxtapose

291
00:14:08,369 --> 00:14:09,369
a situation here.

292
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,250
We are adults

293
00:14:13,010 --> 00:14:15,219
talking to an adult is easy.

294
00:14:16,349 --> 00:14:19,570
I'm not saying hard work doesn't take place in an adult therapy room.

295
00:14:20,950 --> 00:14:22,789
I'm not saying an adult therapist doesn't have

296
00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:25,000
to be highly trained and skilled and competent.

297
00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:31,400
I'm not downplaying or undermining any of that. But what I'm saying is we are adults,

298
00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:32,609
adults

299
00:14:32,989 --> 00:14:34,200
who are clients

300
00:14:34,609 --> 00:14:36,270
are easy to talk to.

301
00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:40,900
There's rational conversation, there's cognitive processing,

302
00:14:40,969 --> 00:14:43,640
there's the capacity for abstract reasoning.

303
00:14:44,099 --> 00:14:46,280
There's an intellectual dialogue

304
00:14:46,390 --> 00:14:47,440
that takes place

305
00:14:48,239 --> 00:14:49,260
that is easy

306
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:50,739
because that's what

307
00:14:50,869 --> 00:14:52,760
we're capable of. And we're used to

308
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,159
you sitting here listening to me right now requires you being an adult

309
00:14:58,830 --> 00:15:01,190
because it's cognitive and it's intellectual and it's

310
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,559
rational and you have to have abstract reasoning.

311
00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:06,460
It's easy to talk to an adult.

312
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,419
And I believe in the depth of my being

313
00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:16,010
that people who argue that you have to include

314
00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:18,210
parents and you have to work with the adult.

315
00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:22,929
And they are the biggest factor in a child's health and well being.

316
00:15:23,669 --> 00:15:27,719
It's because they have no idea how to work with a child effectively.

317
00:15:30,059 --> 00:15:32,469
And guess what working with kids is hard.

318
00:15:35,690 --> 00:15:37,729
It's really, really hard

319
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:42,169
because we have to abandon everything that we know

320
00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:44,059
cognitively

321
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,090
and meet a child where they are developmentally.

322
00:15:48,270 --> 00:15:53,159
And we have to know the why behind every single thing that comes out of our mouth

323
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,419
and we have to know exactly the ways in which

324
00:15:57,429 --> 00:16:00,260
are going to be most well received by a child

325
00:16:00,510 --> 00:16:02,859
with the things that we say and the things that we do,

326
00:16:03,770 --> 00:16:05,849
we have to get ourselves out of the way.

327
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,299
We have to make it about the child and not us, we have to trust the process.

328
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:12,979
We have to stay adherent.

329
00:16:13,570 --> 00:16:17,890
We have to provide freedom when what we really want is to control things. Sometimes

330
00:16:19,099 --> 00:16:26,090
I could go on and on and on. CCPT and working with children is very difficult.

331
00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:30,349
So those who say

332
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:35,669
no way working with kids is last, last last ditch effort because

333
00:16:36,179 --> 00:16:37,789
I'm just gonna work with the parents.

334
00:16:38,659 --> 00:16:39,820
That's because it's easy.

335
00:16:41,599 --> 00:16:46,140
So let's address your, your comment here that quote,

336
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:48,650
working with a child directly is only done as a cop

337
00:16:48,659 --> 00:16:51,049
out when parents aren't willing to do their own work.

338
00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:53,880
I'm going to gently say

339
00:16:54,119 --> 00:16:58,590
that working with parents and avoiding working with a kid is also a cop out

340
00:17:00,460 --> 00:17:05,060
because there is no way in this world that a child coming out of an environment

341
00:17:05,310 --> 00:17:07,719
where parents need to do that much work

342
00:17:08,339 --> 00:17:11,098
doesn't need and deserve their own work.

343
00:17:12,218 --> 00:17:13,229
Do you see what I'm saying? There?

344
00:17:13,239 --> 00:17:14,009
In other words,

345
00:17:14,019 --> 00:17:17,759
if a therapist is going to argue that the parents need to do

346
00:17:17,769 --> 00:17:21,909
so much of their own work that they're gonna prioritize working with the parents

347
00:17:22,550 --> 00:17:26,459
don't even think about telling me that that child doesn't need to do

348
00:17:26,469 --> 00:17:30,329
their own work as a result of that family dynamic and environment.

349
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:34,750
But working with kids is really, really hard.

350
00:17:35,729 --> 00:17:37,530
That's why most therapists won't do it.

351
00:17:39,989 --> 00:17:43,430
And those that see adults that are also willing to see kids,

352
00:17:44,489 --> 00:17:47,449
that's why they have a deck of cards and a stuffed animal in their room.

353
00:17:47,459 --> 00:17:49,030
And they say, yeah, I'll see kids.

354
00:17:50,790 --> 00:17:52,729
They don't know how to work with children.

355
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:57,800
And that's why this podcast exists. That's why

356
00:17:58,089 --> 00:18:00,839
the collective exists. That's why the coaching exists. Why?

357
00:18:00,849 --> 00:18:07,060
Because we need a world full of really, really highly trained and skilled CCPTs.

358
00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:10,410
Kids deserve that.

359
00:18:12,569 --> 00:18:15,689
And then my last thought is I agree with you.

360
00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:17,670
You said that you

361
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:20,790
sometimes chalk this up to ignorance. And I agree

362
00:18:21,609 --> 00:18:23,520
most graduate programs

363
00:18:23,949 --> 00:18:26,030
don't address therapy with children.

364
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,619
Most graduate programs do not have play therapy courses.

365
00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:34,400
Most graduate programs are adult centric.

366
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:39,569
So unless you have been thrust into working with children against your will,

367
00:18:39,579 --> 00:18:41,369
which I know many of you have

368
00:18:41,579 --> 00:18:45,949
and then you scrambled to find some help. And here we are listening to my podcast

369
00:18:46,339 --> 00:18:47,729
or you

370
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,869
decided at some point you wanted to work with children

371
00:18:51,459 --> 00:18:54,260
and then you had to go on a journey to educate yourself.

372
00:18:54,270 --> 00:18:56,540
You didn't get educated in grad school most of the time.

373
00:18:57,979 --> 00:19:01,469
So regardless of how you find yourself on the CCPT path,

374
00:19:03,219 --> 00:19:06,650
you likely didn't get it in your standard

375
00:19:07,099 --> 00:19:07,709
training,

376
00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:14,130
you had to willfully and intentionally seek out help to work with kids.

377
00:19:15,099 --> 00:19:17,140
So all these therapists that work with adults,

378
00:19:17,869 --> 00:19:18,750
it's all they know

379
00:19:19,189 --> 00:19:20,709
and you don't know what you don't know.

380
00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:24,859
And when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

381
00:19:26,369 --> 00:19:29,109
So if you feel comfortable with adults

382
00:19:29,329 --> 00:19:31,010
and you know how to work with adults

383
00:19:31,770 --> 00:19:32,660
and

384
00:19:32,829 --> 00:19:34,099
that's your background,

385
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,699
it would make sense that you're going to prioritize working with adults

386
00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:40,699
because it aligns with

387
00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:41,739
your tools

388
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,979
and all you have is a hammer. Everything looks like a nail.

389
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,890
So it's really easy to justify.

390
00:19:47,630 --> 00:19:48,430
Oh, well, of course,

391
00:19:48,439 --> 00:19:50,930
I have to work with the parents because they're the ones that have

392
00:19:51,060 --> 00:19:54,069
agency over their lives. They're the ones that can change things.

393
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:55,569
They're the ones that can do the work.

394
00:19:55,579 --> 00:19:58,010
They're the ones that can think about this and process this.

395
00:19:58,280 --> 00:19:59,329
All that is true.

396
00:20:00,819 --> 00:20:03,439
But when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

397
00:20:03,930 --> 00:20:06,160
If you were trained in CCPT,

398
00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:09,119
I guarantee you all you would see

399
00:20:09,329 --> 00:20:12,140
is how desperately that child needs it.

400
00:20:13,589 --> 00:20:14,939
All you would see

401
00:20:15,199 --> 00:20:17,959
was the dysregulation and the dysfunction

402
00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:21,160
and the lack of self esteem and the high levels of

403
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:25,579
anxiety and the inability to cope and the lack of resilience.

404
00:20:25,589 --> 00:20:27,780
You would see everything that we see

405
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:28,859
if you knew

406
00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:29,859
what we know.

407
00:20:31,109 --> 00:20:35,199
So I do agree with you that it is largely ignorance as well.

408
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,060
And what's, what's our job

409
00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:39,680
as a CCPT,

410
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:41,579
what do we do on behalf of kids?

411
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:44,859
Thank you. We advocate.

412
00:20:45,069 --> 00:20:45,780
So

413
00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:48,420
we advocate

414
00:20:48,739 --> 00:20:49,569
for

415
00:20:49,689 --> 00:20:51,130
the child being the client.

416
00:20:52,069 --> 00:20:56,250
We advocate for how important it is. We advocate for the universal outcomes.

417
00:20:56,530 --> 00:20:59,329
We advocate for the child becoming the change agent.

418
00:21:00,010 --> 00:21:03,390
We advocate for how much they need resilience and coping skills,

419
00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:06,560
how much they need control over something in their lives

420
00:21:08,510 --> 00:21:10,500
that becomes our advocacy

421
00:21:11,329 --> 00:21:14,060
in a situation like this. So my hope is

422
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,489
that you now have some language, you now have some bullet points,

423
00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:19,670
you have some things to fall back on.

424
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:22,560
So the next time someone says to you, oh

425
00:21:22,959 --> 00:21:23,670
no, no, no, no, no.

426
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,739
We're, we're gonna work with parents before we would work with kids.

427
00:21:27,310 --> 00:21:28,599
Oh, hold the phone.

428
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,130
Let's have a conversation.

429
00:21:30,969 --> 00:21:34,130
Let me tell a really quick story and I know this is a longer episode, but I told,

430
00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:37,170
I warned you, I told you you needed to be comfortable and have a seatbelt on.

431
00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:37,459
So

432
00:21:38,069 --> 00:21:39,329
let me tell you a really quick story.

433
00:21:39,339 --> 00:21:43,040
I had someone that was ready to join one of my coaching call, uh coaching programs

434
00:21:43,770 --> 00:21:45,349
and we did our discovery call

435
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,050
and she signed up.

436
00:21:47,060 --> 00:21:51,709
And shortly thereafter, she sends me an email and says, my supervisor is

437
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:56,010
really having a lot of questions and doesn't seem to be very supportive of this.

438
00:21:56,109 --> 00:21:58,829
And I'm not sure that I'm effectively communicating this.

439
00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:00,670
You know, I don't really know how to handle this.

440
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,239
So I said, let me have a call with your supervisor. I I can answer any questions.

441
00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:05,579
I can explain the program.

442
00:22:05,719 --> 00:22:06,670
Go into the whole thing.

443
00:22:07,979 --> 00:22:09,089
I had a 40

444
00:22:09,439 --> 00:22:11,839
minute conversation with this supervisor

445
00:22:12,689 --> 00:22:15,760
who has quote, been working in the field for 20 years.

446
00:22:16,510 --> 00:22:19,359
So likely my age or there about

447
00:22:19,569 --> 00:22:21,959
and same amount of time in the field.

448
00:22:23,709 --> 00:22:24,459
And

449
00:22:24,699 --> 00:22:28,969
I was explaining the rationale for not having parents in a CCPT playroom.

450
00:22:29,459 --> 00:22:32,369
And for meeting with parents every five sessions with the child

451
00:22:32,609 --> 00:22:37,540
and for the child therapist relationship and the importance of that.

452
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:38,209
And I,

453
00:22:38,219 --> 00:22:40,180
I thought I was just answering questions and

454
00:22:40,189 --> 00:22:43,290
making sure that information was clearly communicated.

455
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:46,780
And the entire 40 minutes

456
00:22:47,170 --> 00:22:48,170
was her

457
00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:48,979
ar

458
00:22:49,089 --> 00:22:50,969
gently arguing with me

459
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:54,979
and polite, politely

460
00:22:55,219 --> 00:22:56,400
disagreeing.

461
00:22:56,569 --> 00:22:57,500
End quote.

462
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,770
I'm going to politely disagree,

463
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,000
respectfully disagree

464
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,430
because I've been working in this field for 20 years

465
00:23:05,569 --> 00:23:08,050
and in every place I've ever worked

466
00:23:08,479 --> 00:23:11,479
with every organization, with every agency

467
00:23:11,819 --> 00:23:13,300
in any capacity,

468
00:23:13,650 --> 00:23:17,390
the parents have been actively involved in sessions with kids.

469
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:21,160
And you will never convince me that that is not a healthier way

470
00:23:21,170 --> 00:23:24,449
because if you isolate the child and you only work with the child,

471
00:23:24,459 --> 00:23:26,750
you're preventing the parent

472
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,329
from becoming

473
00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:31,109
the person to whom the child is bonded

474
00:23:32,219 --> 00:23:33,540
or something along those lines.

475
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,260
And we're not going to be in the child's life forever.

476
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:40,959
So we have to pass that relationship over to the parent

477
00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:44,890
and if it's just between us and the child, we're getting in the way of the parent,

478
00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:46,020
child relationship.

479
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,239
And it was 40 minutes

480
00:23:49,390 --> 00:23:50,079
of

481
00:23:51,010 --> 00:23:52,589
complete disagreement

482
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,459
and I sat there the whole time thinking

483
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,699
you've only ever known one thing.

484
00:23:59,050 --> 00:24:01,569
And so you believe that is absolute truth.

485
00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:04,150
But

486
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,140
how do we ensure that a child

487
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,979
has the freedom and autonomy to work through their stuff

488
00:24:11,770 --> 00:24:14,290
if we don't give the child and the child alone

489
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,520
enough, respect and dignity

490
00:24:16,729 --> 00:24:17,670
and chance

491
00:24:18,150 --> 00:24:19,420
to work on their stuff.

492
00:24:20,589 --> 00:24:22,089
They can't work on it on their own.

493
00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:24,760
They can't work on it with their parents.

494
00:24:25,829 --> 00:24:29,400
They need a third party, neutral objective person

495
00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:31,729
with whom they can go on this journey

496
00:24:32,699 --> 00:24:34,790
and with a parent in the room or with

497
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,760
a parent as the focus of the therapeutic intervention,

498
00:24:38,530 --> 00:24:41,819
the child's never going to be able to do the work that they need to do.

499
00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:46,349
I, I got off that call and I, I literally just

500
00:24:46,750 --> 00:24:49,630
kind of scrunched up my forehead and sat there looking at

501
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,260
the sky for a second like what in the world?

502
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:55,589
I'm not saying parents shouldn't be involved.

503
00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:58,859
They should we have better outcomes when parents are involved. We know that

504
00:25:00,349 --> 00:25:03,579
but parents are not the focus of our work.

505
00:25:04,339 --> 00:25:07,390
The child is, that's why it's called child-centered.

506
00:25:08,770 --> 00:25:09,459
Child

507
00:25:09,619 --> 00:25:12,270
centeredness says you matter,

508
00:25:12,609 --> 00:25:14,410
your needs are important,

509
00:25:15,530 --> 00:25:17,839
your issues, your struggles,

510
00:25:18,869 --> 00:25:22,680
you have the opportunity to become a better version of yourself.

511
00:25:24,130 --> 00:25:28,130
This is why we advocate for CCPT

512
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,199
because we know we know what happens.

513
00:25:31,819 --> 00:25:34,150
People that have never been in a child-centered playroom,

514
00:25:34,219 --> 00:25:36,699
never had a child-centered approach to a client.

515
00:25:37,089 --> 00:25:41,349
They've never done an entire course of treatment with a child using CCPT.

516
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:43,040
They're clueless

517
00:25:43,349 --> 00:25:44,400
and I don't mean that

518
00:25:44,619 --> 00:25:45,680
in a critical way,

519
00:25:46,189 --> 00:25:47,640
but you don't know what you don't know.

520
00:25:49,239 --> 00:25:51,000
You have no

521
00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:52,760
conceivable notion

522
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,099
of what happens in a CCPT playroom

523
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:57,500
until

524
00:25:57,910 --> 00:25:59,020
you're trained enough

525
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,180
to be in a CCPT playroom

526
00:26:01,449 --> 00:26:02,290
with a child.

527
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:04,089
So

528
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:08,449
they might not, not ever get there unless they dive into the world of CCPT.

529
00:26:08,459 --> 00:26:09,489
I pray that they do.

530
00:26:10,030 --> 00:26:10,589
But

531
00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:13,810
regardless for those of us that do know

532
00:26:14,250 --> 00:26:17,489
it's our job to communicate, it's our job to articulate.

533
00:26:17,739 --> 00:26:19,290
It's our job to advocate

534
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:21,140
kids need it.

535
00:26:21,949 --> 00:26:23,680
And when, you know, you know,

536
00:26:24,109 --> 00:26:25,969
and with knowledge comes responsibility,

537
00:26:26,790 --> 00:26:27,349
so

538
00:26:27,609 --> 00:26:28,449
get out there,

539
00:26:28,459 --> 00:26:33,810
start convincing all of these colleagues who are willing to disagree with you

540
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,719
that they need to have a more open mind about the process

541
00:26:37,729 --> 00:26:41,500
and better understand why CCPT is so important for kids.

542
00:26:42,449 --> 00:26:45,670
All right, y'all, I love you. I hope that you have a wonderful weekend.

543
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:46,989
We'll talk next week. Bye.

544
00:26:47,949 --> 00:26:50,859
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

545
00:26:50,959 --> 00:26:54,089
Brenna Hicks for more episodes and resources.

546
00:26:54,099 --> 00:26:59,010
Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.