Physics for fairness: tackling global sustainability challenges through science

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Physics world.

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Things like climate change, for example.

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We've not faced something of
this scale before. We've got, um,

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artificial intelligence is being
developed at such a fast rate.

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So these are science and technology
problems that are so crucial to the

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future of our societies. Uh,
even things like nuclear weapons.

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There are so many things
we are facing today,

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and I think that degree of separation
between the people making the decisions

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and then the scientists who are being
consulted on the side is just making that

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a lot harder to reach the
real optimal solutions.

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That was Ruhi Chitra,

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an intern at UNESCO who will
hear from soon in the podcast,

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the International Year for Basic Sciences
for Sustainable Development Run until

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July, 2023. And in this episode,

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we're going to explore how physicists
and engineers can by returning to

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first principles,

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look at complex socio environmental
issues through fresh eyes.

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Later we'll hear about green energy
transition and how engineering intersects

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with social justice issues
within the us. But first,

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his ruhi Chitra.

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I have a degree in physics, um,

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which I finished two years ago
from the University of Warwick,

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and then I spent last year
as the president of the
International Association of

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Physics Students. So that's IAPs, for
those of you who don't know what that is.

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It's an international organization with
90,000 members in over 70 countries.

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And we run many events around the world.

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So things like the International
Conference for Physics students,

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which takes place in different
countries every year.

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We have the Planks competition,

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which is the physics league across
numerous countries for kickass students.

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So the IOP hosts,

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the national preliminaries in
the, uh, in UK and Ireland.

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And then the winners of that go on to
compete in the international finals.

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So that's how it works.

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So different countries send their teams
of four to compete in the international

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finals. So yeah, there are
loads of interesting, um,

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events and opportunities
through that organization.

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So if you are a student of physics or
a related subject at university level,

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I highly recommend giving you a look.

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And then actually through that
organization I discovered a lot about, um,

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myself and what I wanted
to do with my career.

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So through that organization I discovered
I really thrive in international

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environments.

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I realized that the big
science decisions being made

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today aren't generally being made by
people with a science background or people

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who have a solid understanding of these
issues that made me want to fill that

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gap.

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And this year I've spent the year
studying a master's in international

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relations. So it is slightly unrelated,

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but then I'm planning to go into
this decision making about science.

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So I'm shortly going to move to,

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to Paris to do six months
in the UN in unesco.

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So I'll see if science
policy is the place for me.

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Why is it important for people to have
an understanding of science if they are

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in those positions of power,
making those decisions.

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Artificial intelligence,
climate change, nuclear weapons,

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these problems are the biggest
challenges facing us today.

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When I went to a talk
at the UN by at the UN

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FCCC where they were giving
a talk on climate change,

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and I just noticed that sometimes
some of the science, um,

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knowledge was just being
told slightly inaccurately.

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And that's because the people
making the decisions about science,

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who were giving these talks were
not from a science background.

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So it's, it is just this,

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there's a slight lack of understanding
can lead to further issues.

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It can lead to different
priorities when making decisions.

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And since these are such crucial issues,

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I want the best chance
for us to solve them. Um,

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another thing is just this trust
in evidence-based decision making

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with science background, that is something
that becomes intrinsic to you. Um,

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that's,

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that's one of the main things you gain
from studying science is this trust in

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the scientific method
in science and evidence.

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And often that's what's lacking.

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And really to make effective decisions
that really do what you want them to

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do, you have to use evidence.

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And you've been involved in the year
of basic sciences for sustainable

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development. We.

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Were involved in many exciting initiatives
around the world in things to do with

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physics and science outreach.

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So one of them was the international
year of basic Sciences for sustainable

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development, and we were on the
International advisory committee for that.

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So I went to a lot of the high
level meetings about it and um,

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I went to the opening ceremony
in Paris and it was a very,

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very exciting thing to be involved with.

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So the essential idea is that in our push

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for sustainable development,

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we need to make sure that we
don't forget the basic sciences.

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So this is a big push to remember
that basic sciences are really

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at the heart of everything. Um, these
are the building blocks of our society,

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and you can't,

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we can't make the best science
developments and we can't

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have the best hope of solving these
problems without including the basic

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sciences because in general,

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the basic sciences, when
they're being funded, um,

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you don't necessarily know what
the applications are going to be.

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It's very different to the kind of science
that automatically gets funding the

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kind where you know,

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what the application will be and it will
be used for this purpose and that will

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be useful. So that will get funding.

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But often these basic sciences are very
easy to overlook because you don't know

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what the funding will lead to. You
don't know how long it will take.

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It might take some time. It's
a long investment sometimes,

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but then the things that you can get
out of it are just revolutionary.

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They can change absolutely everything
because these are, like I said,

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the building blocks of our society.

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So if you invest in things
like quantum mechanics,

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you get things like semiconductors,
transistors, computers. So these are,

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this are chain that starts with just
investing in basic sciences. And yeah,

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we wouldn't have any of the technology
we have today without just investing in

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those basic things. You don't know
what you're gonna get from it,

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but you'll get something
amazing if you keep investing.

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And for such huge challenges,
challenges we're about to face now,

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and we are facing,

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this is our best chance of really finding
solutions we'd never be able to find

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without them. So often when you see, um,

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regimes in certain countries that are
only thinking in the short term or who

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aren't thinking using
evidence-based decision making,

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it's often very easy to
stop funding basic sciences.

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And we can see that in lots
of countries around the world.

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But the benefits are so great that, um,

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if a country chooses not to invest
in these things, then they'll,

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they will be left behind.

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What does funding the basic sciences
look like? Is it mostly about education?

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It's education and research. So both
things are very closely tied together.

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So there are certain types of
research, especially in basic sciences,

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that industries don't
have much incentive to,

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to fund because if they don't
know what the outcome is gonna be,

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they're less likely to put
many resources into it,

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which is why things like governments
are so crucial in funding those gaps.

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Say things like general relativity,

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if money wasn't given to just explore
and try to understand the world,

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we wouldn't have things like GPS, we
wouldn't have so much today. So, um,

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research and education are so closely
tied because if the education isn't

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good enough, then we're not gonna
find the people to do the research.

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They're not going to get inspired
to do it. They're not going to,

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they're gonna go do
something else. And, um,

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I've spoken to people from all over
the world through the organization,

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through ias, and clearly in countries,

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particularly in Africa,
in Latin America, in um,

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certain regions in the world,

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there's little emphasis in good
physics education at school level.

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Um, which means that students who want
to study at university really struggle at

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university because they don't have,
they have really outdated education. Um,

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yeah, someone from Costa
Rica was telling me this,

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that that's the exact
problem they're facing.

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Like unsatisfactory level of
education at school means that, um,

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people are generally poor in
science and maths knowledge,

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which means that university is
just more difficult for them.

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If there is less funding
in infrastructure,

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then the research can't be conducted.

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Then there are a few people
to teach the students.

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And then it leads to situations where
countries have to actually buy data and

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things from other countries, which puts
them in a really, really vulnerable,

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vulnerable position because, um,

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it's much less difficult to control the
data to understand what's going on when

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you're not doing it yourself.

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How has it worked as a year?

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There's the steering committee, they're
the International Advisory committees,

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things like that. So they're the
ones who are coordinating everything.

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They're the ones who got it ratified
by the UN General Assembly and have

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been organizing the publicity and
coordinating different events around the

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world. But then there have been so many
different events around the world, um,

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different initiatives,
things from science outreach,

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so tru to trust science and to
understand that its value in

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this world. So, so there
are so many levels to this.

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It's not just telling
governments you need to fund,

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it's also telling the public that you
need to encourage your governments to

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fund. Because in democracies
that's how it works.

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A physics organization
that I was running, we,

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we had funding just to run
lots of physics events,

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just making physics really visible and,

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and showing how important
these kind of sciences are.

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So one that we funded last year was, um,

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the International Physicist Tournament.

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Another thing we were involved with was
the International Day of Flight. Um,

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so that's another outreach
event, uh, which was,

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which works similar to the international
year of basic sciences for sustainable

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development, which has an a central, um,

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central body organizing everything.

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And then many events
going on around the world.

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The International Day of Light emerged
from the 2015 International year of light

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of which physics world
was a media partner,

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longtime listeners may remember the
special issue we produced that year.

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And the film series,

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which is still available on the physics
world website and the YouTube channel

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about how light-based technologies
interact with culture across the world.

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So it's held on the
16th of May every year,

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and that is the anniversary
of the first use of the laser.

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And that kind of sums it up.

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It's about showing how how develops
in developments in light and

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research in light can really
shape and effect everyone's lives,

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lives. So the laser has had so
many impacts on things like, um,

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medicine communications. So yeah, that,
that's how it started. Um, and the,

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the idea is that every
year on the 16th of May,

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there are so many outreach initiatives
around the world to show how the latest

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developments in light
are so key to our lives.

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So it is just that constant reminder that
we need to give priority to the these

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subjects and these funding
because it's easy to overlook,

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but it is so crucial to everything.

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You've mentioned Africa and
Costa Rica and closer to home,

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do you look at the UK and think
this is a, a problem here?

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Having seen other countries,

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I can say that we are in a
much more privileged position.

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There are opportunities we don't have to
leave the country to get opportunities,

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um, as opposed to friends in
other regions of the world. Um,

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especially friends from different African
regions and Latin American regions

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where they're the best minds.

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Really intelligent people I know
have to move to Europe, for example,

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to do research. Um, and you know,

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Latin America's really missing out from
that and Africa's really missing out

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because they've invested in these people
and they're not getting the benefits of

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that.

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Whereas Europe is really benefiting
because they have the best minds from so

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many more countries. So in that
sense, the Britain and, um,

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Ireland are in a good place saying that
there are still obviously gonna be lots

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of issues from the school level. There
are just significantly fewer, uh,

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females taking physics than males.
And that continues into university.

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And what I find really interesting is
that this isn't universal in the world.

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This is something that is a problem
in in our region because if you

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look at, um,

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say the UN statistics on the proportion of

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people studying STEM around
the world in different regions,

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it it's much higher for women in
regions like Latin America in, in, um,

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Asia, it, it is just a significantly
higher proportion of women doing stem,

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which is very interesting.

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So it shows that this isn't a
problem that cannot be solved.

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Has that been your experience
in physics as well?

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So when I went into physics,

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I did notice that I was very often the
only woman in the room, even today.

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So my course was 17% women,

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but often there were spaces where
I was the only one that was 20

233
00:13:29,855 --> 00:13:34,485
males, one female. And I found that, um,

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00:13:34,685 --> 00:13:38,365
a conference I went to
called the Conference for
Undergraduate Women in Physics

235
00:13:38,585 --> 00:13:42,365
or the <inaudible>, um,
really, really helped me, uh,

236
00:13:42,385 --> 00:13:47,335
to change how I was thinking about
that situation because I realized

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00:13:47,755 --> 00:13:52,735
during my whole first year that I'd
never had a female lecturer before for

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physics. I'd never interacted
with a female physicist. Um,

239
00:13:57,035 --> 00:13:59,575
as in I I I had probably
with one, but that was it.

240
00:13:59,995 --> 00:14:04,575
So I just realized that really
warped my perception on what

241
00:14:05,015 --> 00:14:08,615
a physicist is. And this
is today I just, uh,

242
00:14:08,615 --> 00:14:11,815
just finished my physics
degree two years ago. So, um,

243
00:14:12,455 --> 00:14:16,015
I had this really warped understanding
throughout my first year of my degree.

244
00:14:16,295 --> 00:14:21,135
I was finding that I had to prove myself
a lot harder than other people to get

245
00:14:21,135 --> 00:14:25,255
the same level of respect than
males. And I realized during,

246
00:14:25,255 --> 00:14:27,015
when I went to this
conference, which is fantastic,

247
00:14:27,115 --> 00:14:30,575
so I really recommend any female
doing physics go to that conference.

248
00:14:31,255 --> 00:14:34,535
I finally saw the most
inspiring female physicists,

249
00:14:34,875 --> 00:14:39,535
and I just realized that I had
completely taken in this bias.

250
00:14:40,035 --> 00:14:41,175
Um, so it,

251
00:14:41,435 --> 00:14:45,295
so I had this bias against females as
well as everyone else because that's how

252
00:14:45,295 --> 00:14:46,375
it works in this society.

253
00:14:47,075 --> 00:14:51,245
So I had this bias that women just
weren't as good as physics at physics.

254
00:14:52,145 --> 00:14:56,795
And going to that conference and seeing
that that was just completely wrong,

255
00:14:57,415 --> 00:15:01,035
really changed everything. And that
gave me a lot more confidence in myself.

256
00:15:01,635 --> 00:15:05,435
I did make, every female I knew applied
to go to that conference as well.

257
00:15:05,455 --> 00:15:09,375
So it was a very <laugh> very
inspiring conference for me.

258
00:15:09,595 --> 00:15:12,255
And that was actually the conference
that I discovered. I asked, uh,

259
00:15:12,255 --> 00:15:14,495
one of the speakers said,
if you ever get the chance,

260
00:15:14,515 --> 00:15:17,535
you absolutely have to go to
this international conference
for physics students.

261
00:15:17,635 --> 00:15:21,335
It will change your life. And yeah, it,
it did actually, I had these biases.

262
00:15:21,795 --> 00:15:26,735
So naturally everyone's gonna have
these biases and this is in UK society,

263
00:15:27,315 --> 00:15:30,215
so you know, it, it is everywhere,
it's intrinsic. And um,

264
00:15:30,435 --> 00:15:35,335
having initiatives like this is a really
good way, at least it was for me to,

265
00:15:35,675 --> 00:15:39,015
to chase that and to overcome it.

266
00:15:39,455 --> 00:15:41,695
I know that there are lots of
other initiatives like this. Um,

267
00:15:41,845 --> 00:15:46,215
I've heard of Married Curious for
example, as a day event between, um,

268
00:15:46,315 --> 00:15:49,015
Oxford and Warwick and there are
so many other things like this.

269
00:15:49,275 --> 00:15:51,215
And I just wanna say that I really,

270
00:15:51,975 --> 00:15:54,935
I really support those kind of things
because they do make a huge difference.

271
00:15:55,485 --> 00:15:55,775
Yeah,

272
00:15:55,775 --> 00:16:00,615
it's really interesting how the
global perspective really well,

273
00:16:00,895 --> 00:16:03,975
I mean as you say, is changes
your life, doesn't it?

274
00:16:04,515 --> 00:16:08,095
In certain regions of the world, physics
is seen as a really privileged subject.

275
00:16:08,835 --> 00:16:11,015
So it is the kind of subject.

276
00:16:11,155 --> 00:16:14,935
So I've got friends in the
Dominican Republic that I
met through my organization

277
00:16:15,715 --> 00:16:20,215
and I was privileged enough to go and
speak in their university as well, um,

278
00:16:20,435 --> 00:16:20,815
in person.

279
00:16:20,815 --> 00:16:25,775
So I got to meet lots of people
studying physics and it just is

280
00:16:25,775 --> 00:16:29,055
really difficult if there
isn't much funding and support.

281
00:16:29,315 --> 00:16:32,175
So some people had to work
throughout their degrees and um,

282
00:16:32,175 --> 00:16:35,855
there was such a high dropout rate for
that. And their degrees are much longer.

283
00:16:36,205 --> 00:16:39,695
Yeah, we are really lucky that it, it
isn't as privileged as subject here.

284
00:16:39,695 --> 00:16:43,775
There are so many benefits
to our society, um,

285
00:16:43,955 --> 00:16:46,815
in general and to individuals
from studying physics.

286
00:16:47,635 --> 00:16:49,535
You get not only problem solving skills,

287
00:16:50,035 --> 00:16:54,215
but you get a really unique combination
of different, different experiences.

288
00:16:54,315 --> 00:16:57,815
You get this, um, appreciation
of maths, for example, um,

289
00:16:57,815 --> 00:17:00,215
because maths is the language of physics,

290
00:17:00,995 --> 00:17:03,895
but you also get this
appreciation of science,

291
00:17:04,145 --> 00:17:08,575
which you wouldn't get from a a
maths course. You get this, um,

292
00:17:09,205 --> 00:17:10,415
this use, uh,

293
00:17:10,595 --> 00:17:13,495
and competency with technology because
there's a lot of programming in physics,

294
00:17:13,795 --> 00:17:16,255
um, at school but also
particularly at university level.

295
00:17:16,675 --> 00:17:20,815
So there are so many things you get
at a personal level and you get this

296
00:17:22,085 --> 00:17:25,735
ability to be faced with a challenge
and just want to dig right in because

297
00:17:25,735 --> 00:17:30,615
you're so used to facing
challenges that you are

298
00:17:30,955 --> 00:17:31,615
uh, you know,

299
00:17:31,615 --> 00:17:34,935
you can solve them because you're so
used to solving difficult challenges.

300
00:17:35,195 --> 00:17:38,975
But then from the societal level
there are so many greater benefits.

301
00:17:39,205 --> 00:17:41,925
Like I said, this um, increased,

302
00:17:43,195 --> 00:17:47,845
this increased trust in evidence-based
decision making, this um,

303
00:17:47,845 --> 00:17:51,645
increased respect for science, for
funding research, things like that.

304
00:17:51,645 --> 00:17:55,565
There's so much you can gain from
having good physics education.

305
00:17:55,865 --> 00:18:00,445
On the back of the success of the
international year of basic sciences

306
00:18:00,705 --> 00:18:02,005
for sustainable development.

307
00:18:02,265 --> 00:18:07,245
The United Nations General Assembly has
proclaimed by consensus that there will

308
00:18:07,425 --> 00:18:11,125
now be the international decade of
sciences for sustainable development,

309
00:18:11,215 --> 00:18:14,925
which will run between 2024 and 2033.

310
00:18:16,005 --> 00:18:20,565
I wanted to know more about how
physicists could get involved in the

311
00:18:20,565 --> 00:18:25,365
technologies and engineering that
might help us to achieve the UN's

312
00:18:25,555 --> 00:18:28,765
sustainable development goals.
The SDGs as they're known,

313
00:18:28,945 --> 00:18:33,485
differ from the millennium development
goals because they're universal and apply

314
00:18:33,485 --> 00:18:37,885
to all countries ahead of her speaking
at the IOP's publishing event,

315
00:18:37,885 --> 00:18:42,725
environmental research 2023, I
caught up with Destiny Knock.

316
00:18:43,245 --> 00:18:47,245
I am an assistant professor at
Carnegie Mellon University in Civil and

317
00:18:47,245 --> 00:18:50,245
Environmental Engineering as well
as engineering and public policy.

318
00:18:50,985 --> 00:18:55,885
And my work has focused on energy
justice and energy poverty as well as the

319
00:18:55,885 --> 00:18:59,405
energy transition. I have two
streams of work in energy.

320
00:18:59,745 --> 00:19:04,205
One is focused on the residential
side and the other is focused on the

321
00:19:04,205 --> 00:19:07,525
generation buildout side.
On the residential side,

322
00:19:07,745 --> 00:19:12,605
we look at who is not consuming
enough energy in order to be safe

323
00:19:12,665 --> 00:19:15,205
and comfortable in their
homes. So for example,

324
00:19:15,425 --> 00:19:20,405
if someone is not consuming
energy during a heat wave or a

325
00:19:20,405 --> 00:19:20,915
deep freeze,

326
00:19:20,915 --> 00:19:24,805
this could mean that they're putting
themselves at risk of heat stroke or heat

327
00:19:24,805 --> 00:19:27,085
illness and dehydration in the summer.

328
00:19:27,505 --> 00:19:31,245
And if they're not using it during a deep
freeze or when the temperatures start

329
00:19:31,245 --> 00:19:32,085
to drop outside,

330
00:19:32,435 --> 00:19:36,685
that could mean that they're putting
themselves at risk of their pipes freezing

331
00:19:36,685 --> 00:19:41,085
in their home or perhaps uh,
getting hypothermia in their home.

332
00:19:41,385 --> 00:19:46,285
So trying to find energy deficits
in terms of who feels like

333
00:19:46,285 --> 00:19:49,845
they can't afford their bills and
instead of, you know, going into debt,

334
00:19:50,235 --> 00:19:53,765
just don't use it, uh, is a big
work on the residential side.

335
00:19:54,185 --> 00:19:57,205
And then on the supply
side slash generation side,

336
00:19:57,925 --> 00:20:02,565
I have been looking at how the
energy transition over the next 50

337
00:20:03,265 --> 00:20:08,205
to a hundred years will impact
different communities to do

338
00:20:08,235 --> 00:20:12,005
more of a forward-looking
analysis. Um, so for example,

339
00:20:12,665 --> 00:20:16,285
in a recent paper, uh, it's
go forth and Knock <laugh>,

340
00:20:16,285 --> 00:20:20,365
which is a nice little acronym. Um,
so in our go forth and not paper,

341
00:20:21,065 --> 00:20:26,005
we were looking at different
decarbonization plans
and asking which one was

342
00:20:26,005 --> 00:20:27,725
the best from an equity standpoint.

343
00:20:28,145 --> 00:20:32,925
So now instead of just evaluating
on the goal of reducing greenhouse

344
00:20:32,985 --> 00:20:37,365
gas emissions, we also tied in air
pollution emissions at the local level.

345
00:20:37,785 --> 00:20:41,325
So looking specifically at
particulate matter socks and NOx,

346
00:20:41,665 --> 00:20:46,445
and then seeing where those emissions
would be projected to be reduced and

347
00:20:46,815 --> 00:20:49,285
where the remaining emissions
would be projected to settle.

348
00:20:49,545 --> 00:20:52,565
And so then we could actually
see, you know, our uh,

349
00:20:52,885 --> 00:20:55,205
minority communities getting
those benefit reductions,

350
00:20:55,205 --> 00:20:58,565
our low income communities getting
those benefit reductions and which

351
00:20:58,565 --> 00:21:03,365
decarbonization plan is the most
equitable from an air pollution emission

352
00:21:03,725 --> 00:21:05,005
reduction standpoint. And.

353
00:21:05,005 --> 00:21:06,165
Is this all in the US that.

354
00:21:06,165 --> 00:21:06,745
You're looking?

355
00:21:06,745 --> 00:21:11,285
So the two things I mentioned are in the
US I have done some work in Sub-Saharan

356
00:21:11,285 --> 00:21:16,245
Africa, um, that actually kind of
reduced a little bit during the pandemic,

357
00:21:16,245 --> 00:21:18,005
unfortunately. 'cause you know,

358
00:21:18,035 --> 00:21:21,085
it's really hard to keep doing work
when you can't travel <laugh> to places.

359
00:21:21,785 --> 00:21:25,365
And I think that during the pandemic, uh,

360
00:21:25,505 --> 00:21:29,725
it really came to light that a lot of
people in the US were struggling. Uh,

361
00:21:29,725 --> 00:21:33,685
during the pandemic it was reported
that 20 million Americans were behind on

362
00:21:33,685 --> 00:21:35,965
their bills and that the,

363
00:21:35,965 --> 00:21:40,445
those unpaid bills amounted to
$32 billion in debt for energy

364
00:21:40,515 --> 00:21:44,965
utilities across the United
States. And that's when, you know,

365
00:21:45,105 --> 00:21:49,765
it really hit me that like even
though the developing world in Africa,

366
00:21:50,105 --> 00:21:50,405
you know,

367
00:21:50,405 --> 00:21:54,405
you need to have development of actually
building out the electricity system.

368
00:21:55,145 --> 00:21:57,885
One thing that really hit me when I
was reading those statistics from the

369
00:21:58,125 --> 00:22:01,685
pandemic was that on our, in the US right,

370
00:22:01,785 --> 00:22:06,165
in a place where you would assume
that everybody has access to

371
00:22:06,485 --> 00:22:10,885
electricity, some people really don't
have access because it's not affordable.

372
00:22:11,185 --> 00:22:16,165
And that's a hidden in equity that
can be very hard to recognize because

373
00:22:16,505 --> 00:22:18,445
nobody wants to stand up and say, Hey,

374
00:22:18,465 --> 00:22:21,645
I'm poor and I'm freezing in my house
and I'm worried that my kids are gonna

375
00:22:21,645 --> 00:22:25,285
freeze to death. Right? Because you have,
it's really hard to say that, right?

376
00:22:25,285 --> 00:22:27,525
To admit that you need help.

377
00:22:28,225 --> 00:22:32,925
And I remember when I was in
grad school up in Massachusetts,

378
00:22:33,165 --> 00:22:38,165
I lived in the oil-based heating house
and we were really struggling and

379
00:22:39,065 --> 00:22:40,245
we, you know,

380
00:22:40,245 --> 00:22:44,325
used to cut off our heat when we would
go to work so that we would just try to

381
00:22:44,325 --> 00:22:48,245
keep that bill as low as possible.
And at one point, you know,

382
00:22:48,245 --> 00:22:52,965
the temperatures were dropping to below
freezing and just talking with our

383
00:22:53,165 --> 00:22:54,045
landlord, talking with each other,

384
00:22:54,045 --> 00:22:58,645
we realized like we can't cut off the
heat or else we would be liable for paying

385
00:22:58,705 --> 00:23:03,285
the damage from all those frozen pipes.
So we decided to keep it on. Well,

386
00:23:03,825 --> 00:23:04,185
you know,

387
00:23:04,185 --> 00:23:07,365
now we have this dichotomy of well
we have to pay the electricity bill,

388
00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:09,205
we have to pay our oil heating bill.

389
00:23:09,395 --> 00:23:11,885
Well let's just pay the oil
heating bill first, right?

390
00:23:12,225 --> 00:23:16,125
And then our electricity got cut off and

391
00:23:17,315 --> 00:23:19,005
when the electricity got cut off,

392
00:23:19,205 --> 00:23:24,165
I learned the very hard fact that your
thermostat won't kick on your heat when

393
00:23:24,165 --> 00:23:25,525
there's no electricity in your house.

394
00:23:26,305 --> 00:23:31,165
And that was something I like as a
person who was an electrical engineer who

395
00:23:31,185 --> 00:23:33,645
was studying the energy
transition in grad school.

396
00:23:34,445 --> 00:23:38,925
I felt extremely stupid in that
moment, right? Because I'm just like,

397
00:23:38,985 --> 00:23:42,445
I'm supposed to pay my electricity
bills because this is what I do,

398
00:23:42,515 --> 00:23:45,765
this is what I do for work and
I'm over here struggling. Um,

399
00:23:46,785 --> 00:23:49,805
and that's when, you know,
I realized how vital it was.

400
00:23:49,905 --> 00:23:51,725
And then I think during the pandemic,

401
00:23:51,825 --> 00:23:55,365
one thing that surfaced for me was
that I'm not the only one that is,

402
00:23:55,475 --> 00:23:56,605
that was struggling, right?

403
00:23:56,705 --> 00:23:59,885
And I think I'm fortunate now to
where I have a job where, you know,

404
00:23:59,885 --> 00:24:02,925
I don't necessarily struggle
all the time, but you know,

405
00:24:03,165 --> 00:24:07,325
building on that lived experience
that I had, getting my lights cut off,

406
00:24:07,425 --> 00:24:09,445
you know, not being able to heat my house,

407
00:24:09,575 --> 00:24:12,125
being really afraid of
those pipes freezing.

408
00:24:12,405 --> 00:24:15,645
'cause that was the whole thing we were
trying to avoid in the first place. Um,

409
00:24:16,505 --> 00:24:20,205
people, it sucks, right? And when the,

410
00:24:21,035 --> 00:24:22,525
when you don't use energy,

411
00:24:23,225 --> 00:24:25,565
the utility thinks that
you're super energy efficient.

412
00:24:26,235 --> 00:24:27,845
Like I can't tell you how,

413
00:24:28,385 --> 00:24:32,525
you know many bills we got that say
you're using less than all your neighbors.

414
00:24:32,595 --> 00:24:37,045
Good job on energy efficiency, good
job to you. And we were just like,

415
00:24:37,625 --> 00:24:41,805
you know, like, you know, like we are
really mad at y'all like leave us alone.

416
00:24:41,875 --> 00:24:44,725
Like, you know, we are struggling over
here. We don't want your good job,

417
00:24:44,825 --> 00:24:47,325
pat on the back. We want to,
we wanna be warm in our house.

418
00:24:47,445 --> 00:24:51,045
I wanna take off my jacket and not
have to wear my boots to the bathroom.

419
00:24:51,705 --> 00:24:54,165
You know? And um, I think that that is a,

420
00:24:55,045 --> 00:24:59,205
a hidden a a hidden form of poverty
that's really hard to recognize.

421
00:24:59,745 --> 00:25:03,005
But so how are you finding that in
the data? How are you finding those?

422
00:25:03,005 --> 00:25:05,325
Because if they can't see it,
how do you see it in the data?

423
00:25:06,065 --> 00:25:10,085
So, so this is again on our
residential energy side. Um,

424
00:25:10,305 --> 00:25:13,565
if you wanna see the
paper, it's Kong et al. Um,

425
00:25:14,105 --> 00:25:17,645
and we actually have Huen et
al now and Kang et al <laugh>.

426
00:25:17,865 --> 00:25:19,925
So you have three papers on it now. Um,

427
00:25:19,945 --> 00:25:23,925
so for the data there's
widely available, um,

428
00:25:23,975 --> 00:25:26,405
smart meter or sometimes
people call it AMI,

429
00:25:26,645 --> 00:25:30,965
advanced metering infrastructure
data where they actually record

430
00:25:31,505 --> 00:25:35,085
the household energy usage,
um, at the second level.

431
00:25:35,665 --> 00:25:39,605
So what we do is we actually
look across the daily level, um,

432
00:25:39,605 --> 00:25:44,285
for different households and then
we will tie that to temperature and

433
00:25:44,355 --> 00:25:47,725
your demographics. Uh, mostly
income though at this stage.

434
00:25:48,465 --> 00:25:53,165
And so when we are looking at temperature
now we can see for a utilities

435
00:25:53,165 --> 00:25:57,765
region who is using energy in terms of the

436
00:25:57,765 --> 00:26:00,805
outdoor temperature, right? So I don't
actually have any thermostat information.

437
00:26:01,265 --> 00:26:04,525
So I can see, okay, you
know, Andrew's in a house,

438
00:26:04,945 --> 00:26:09,125
he is living in this region of the
United States and when the outdoor

439
00:26:09,125 --> 00:26:13,965
temperature reaches 70 degrees
outside, I see his AC kick on,

440
00:26:14,375 --> 00:26:17,605
right? And that's like a, a
response I can see in this graph.

441
00:26:17,605 --> 00:26:21,085
And then I can say, okay, well
I see in the winter, you know,

442
00:26:21,085 --> 00:26:24,845
when when it gets below 50 degrees
I see his heating system kick on.

443
00:26:25,745 --> 00:26:29,845
Now the key thing is
to not leave it there,

444
00:26:30,065 --> 00:26:34,205
but then to look at the
different demographics and um,

445
00:26:34,605 --> 00:26:38,605
economic factors. So now we also
separate it by income. So you know,

446
00:26:39,145 --> 00:26:41,965
if you and I are in this high
income group, we can say okay,

447
00:26:41,985 --> 00:26:46,565
our baseline for high income people
in the region is that on average

448
00:26:46,825 --> 00:26:51,805
all these high income households are
kicking on their air conditioners at about

449
00:26:52,035 --> 00:26:56,005
70 degrees outside. That's the first
outdoor temperature at which the system,

450
00:26:56,705 --> 00:26:57,538
you know, kicks on.

451
00:26:58,715 --> 00:27:03,205
Then if I look at the low income groups
and I say, huh, that's interesting.

452
00:27:03,265 --> 00:27:07,405
On average everybody in our lowest
income group and in our study the lowest

453
00:27:07,405 --> 00:27:11,605
income group are those that make
less than $15,000 a year. Um,

454
00:27:11,605 --> 00:27:15,205
that's actually less than working
a full-time minimum wage job in the

455
00:27:15,205 --> 00:27:17,965
United States. So if you
work full-time, minimum wage,

456
00:27:18,465 --> 00:27:22,885
the average minimum wage for the US,
you would make $15,080 a year. Um,

457
00:27:22,905 --> 00:27:26,765
so now these are people making less
than $15,000 a year. So on average,

458
00:27:27,305 --> 00:27:27,605
you know,

459
00:27:27,605 --> 00:27:31,325
we might see that those communities
are waiting until it's maybe 75 degrees

460
00:27:31,325 --> 00:27:35,125
outside to kick on their,
um, air conditioning unit.

461
00:27:35,125 --> 00:27:39,765
So we would say that this is five degrees
of energy limiting behavior because

462
00:27:40,785 --> 00:27:43,445
we would expect that if everyone
lives in the same region,

463
00:27:44,035 --> 00:27:47,725
that it would start to feel
hot around the same time. Um,

464
00:27:47,745 --> 00:27:51,165
and actually there is
evidence from a study in, uh,

465
00:27:51,275 --> 00:27:56,005
from a study outs out of the University
of Michigan where they actually say that

466
00:27:56,155 --> 00:28:00,365
typically most households actually keep
their thermostats set to around the same

467
00:28:00,365 --> 00:28:03,285
amount, um, within like
two or three degrees.

468
00:28:03,305 --> 00:28:07,525
So the fact that in our Arizona study,
in our, and in our Chicago study,

469
00:28:07,705 --> 00:28:12,405
we were seeing three to seven degrees
of difference in terms of the outdoor

470
00:28:12,405 --> 00:28:13,485
temperature when they kick on.

471
00:28:13,785 --> 00:28:18,525
And then in our Chicago study we were
seeing between six to 10 degrees of

472
00:28:18,525 --> 00:28:22,685
difference in the winter between when
people would start to use their heat that

473
00:28:22,685 --> 00:28:26,445
then signifies that this is a
inequity. I think it's also, you know,

474
00:28:26,445 --> 00:28:29,045
you have to know what to separate
it because people have asked me,

475
00:28:29,115 --> 00:28:32,405
well how do you know it's income? How
do you know that this is inequity?

476
00:28:32,905 --> 00:28:36,765
And we had to test a lot of
variables. We tested race,

477
00:28:37,025 --> 00:28:40,525
we tested income, we tested
household size, household age,

478
00:28:40,785 --> 00:28:45,245
AC efficiency for the region we had,
and it always came back to income,

479
00:28:45,935 --> 00:28:48,565
right? And that's what makes
us believe that, you know,

480
00:28:48,565 --> 00:28:51,085
the finances are what's
really driving this inequity.

481
00:28:51,545 --> 00:28:56,285
And when you also think about like low
income communities versus high income

482
00:28:56,285 --> 00:28:56,755
communities,

483
00:28:56,755 --> 00:29:00,725
typically low income communities live
in older houses with worse insulation.

484
00:29:01,265 --> 00:29:06,245
So that means that on top of this
disparity in terms of when they turn on

485
00:29:06,245 --> 00:29:07,605
their air conditioning and heating system,

486
00:29:07,865 --> 00:29:12,445
it also most likely feels colder or
hotter in their house because their

487
00:29:12,445 --> 00:29:15,365
installation isn't as,
isn't as high quality. Hmm.

488
00:29:15,555 --> 00:29:16,485
Okay. So what do we do.

489
00:29:16,485 --> 00:29:17,085
About it?

490
00:29:17,085 --> 00:29:20,805
I think that this is one area where a
lot of physicists can come in because

491
00:29:21,815 --> 00:29:26,165
using the laws of
thermodynamics to, you know,

492
00:29:26,225 --> 00:29:30,525
inform our building codes to inform our
installation requirements. You know,

493
00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:31,925
I think that that's really important.

494
00:29:32,075 --> 00:29:36,925
It's something that I see
in the news of, you know,

495
00:29:36,945 --> 00:29:38,445
what's the installation requirement?

496
00:29:38,685 --> 00:29:43,245
I was reading this news article from
North Carolina the other day that said

497
00:29:43,245 --> 00:29:44,078
that, um,

498
00:29:44,135 --> 00:29:48,925
developers were saying the new
installation standards would make houses

499
00:29:49,125 --> 00:29:53,565
unaffordable, like new houses
unaffordable. And in my opinion, I'm like,

500
00:29:54,505 --> 00:29:56,085
no, that's not, that's not what we want.

501
00:29:56,185 --> 00:30:01,045
We want a quality house
that you can buy and afford

502
00:30:01,045 --> 00:30:02,405
to live in, right?

503
00:30:02,545 --> 00:30:07,445
So saying that we are going to not put
insulation in because of the upfront

504
00:30:07,635 --> 00:30:09,005
cost to me,

505
00:30:09,315 --> 00:30:13,365
then now you're putting the burden on
all these houses and all these families

506
00:30:13,705 --> 00:30:18,605
who may think that they're getting a
quality house to live in to support their

507
00:30:18,605 --> 00:30:19,345
family,

508
00:30:19,345 --> 00:30:22,925
but now they're freezing in their home
or they're at risk of heat illness in

509
00:30:22,925 --> 00:30:25,445
their home because they don't
have quality installation.

510
00:30:25,505 --> 00:30:28,045
And I think that using um,

511
00:30:29,275 --> 00:30:31,365
this information to
inform our building codes,

512
00:30:31,365 --> 00:30:34,445
to inform our housing standards
and to inform like, you know,

513
00:30:34,515 --> 00:30:39,125
what is the quality of life that
we want people to be able to meet,

514
00:30:39,605 --> 00:30:43,085
I think can be a big thing
for us moving forward.

515
00:30:43,585 --> 00:30:46,685
So you've moved from being an
electrical engineer to doing this? Why?

516
00:30:47,405 --> 00:30:49,485
I am very <laugh> financially driven.

517
00:30:50,305 --> 00:30:54,845
So when I was looking at
schools for my undergrad,

518
00:30:55,525 --> 00:30:57,365
I actually wanted to be a
high school math teacher.

519
00:30:57,965 --> 00:31:01,805
I was going to save the world
one high schooler at a time. Um,

520
00:31:02,345 --> 00:31:04,965
but then when I got my acceptance letter,

521
00:31:05,285 --> 00:31:09,605
I didn't get a scholarship to
teach to, to be a math teacher,

522
00:31:09,745 --> 00:31:14,605
to to be a secondary education major.
And my dad told me, he's an engineer,

523
00:31:14,605 --> 00:31:16,085
he's an electrical
engineer, he said, you know,

524
00:31:16,085 --> 00:31:20,845
you probably could get a scholarship for
engineering. And I said, okay, that's,

525
00:31:20,925 --> 00:31:25,245
I guess that's what I'm gonna do.
Um, and <laugh>, so, so then, um,

526
00:31:25,675 --> 00:31:28,805
he's an electrical engineer and I looked
at all the engineerings and I was like,

527
00:31:28,805 --> 00:31:31,085
well, if I want the scholarship,
I just have to pick one.

528
00:31:31,705 --> 00:31:35,845
So then I just picked
electrical engineering. 'cause
I, in my mind, you know,

529
00:31:36,145 --> 00:31:38,925
um, I still wanted to be a
high school math teacher.

530
00:31:38,995 --> 00:31:42,645
Like that was like where my
heart was, um, at that time.

531
00:31:43,185 --> 00:31:46,565
And so then I said, well, you know, if
I'm going to do electrical engineering,

532
00:31:46,725 --> 00:31:49,245
I might as well pick something I think
will have really good job security.

533
00:31:49,625 --> 00:31:53,165
And everybody has a phone. So I don't
think that's going away anytime soon.

534
00:31:53,165 --> 00:31:55,645
So as an electrical engineer, they'll
probably need more of those in the future.

535
00:31:56,345 --> 00:31:56,585
Um,

536
00:31:56,585 --> 00:32:01,525
so I actually double majored in electrical
engineering and math education for

537
00:32:01,595 --> 00:32:03,765
four and a half years in my undergrad.

538
00:32:04,065 --> 00:32:08,285
And it was only when I went to teach in
the secondary schools that I was like,

539
00:32:08,355 --> 00:32:12,485
this is not for me. <laugh>, I
felt like a glorified babysitter.

540
00:32:12,505 --> 00:32:17,285
We really don't value our
teachers. Um, and you know,

541
00:32:17,545 --> 00:32:21,005
the, the challenge of being a high school
teacher is that you know, the kids,

542
00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:23,845
some kids just don't wanna
be there. I think I was also,

543
00:32:24,135 --> 00:32:26,165
maybe the universe was
setting me up to fail.

544
00:32:26,285 --> 00:32:29,685
'cause I was trying to teach algebra two
to students that were still in algebra

545
00:32:29,705 --> 00:32:30,765
one and I was like,

546
00:32:30,765 --> 00:32:34,605
that no child left behind act that we
have in the US was really not benefiting

547
00:32:34,605 --> 00:32:37,885
our students because they did not,
they're not, they weren't gonna learn it,

548
00:32:38,015 --> 00:32:39,645
right? Um,

549
00:32:39,665 --> 00:32:44,405
so that's when I shifted gears to
try to figure out what do I even

550
00:32:44,405 --> 00:32:45,725
like in electrical engineering?

551
00:32:45,795 --> 00:32:49,965
What can I be passionate enough
about to make this a career?

552
00:32:50,705 --> 00:32:54,525
Um, so then I did a study
abroad. I went to Malawi,

553
00:32:54,545 --> 00:32:59,245
Africa and I was there to teach
in the schools, but it was really,

554
00:32:59,745 --> 00:33:00,578
um,

555
00:33:00,725 --> 00:33:04,365
I think the thing that really like got
my heart was that they had to end school

556
00:33:04,455 --> 00:33:07,365
early enough so that the kids could walk
home from school because they didn't

557
00:33:07,365 --> 00:33:09,445
have street lights because they
didn't have lights at the school.

558
00:33:09,945 --> 00:33:12,485
And so that was something
that I was like, okay,

559
00:33:12,485 --> 00:33:14,685
like if I develop electricity systems,

560
00:33:14,835 --> 00:33:18,685
like I can still be really tied to
education. And I think that electricity,

561
00:33:19,185 --> 00:33:23,525
it can be that great equalizer, you
know, online classes, knowledge sharing,

562
00:33:23,615 --> 00:33:26,845
books, sharing, um, instead
of doing book drives, right?

563
00:33:26,845 --> 00:33:30,325
Like you can send a ton of eBooks
very quickly across the internet.

564
00:33:30,345 --> 00:33:35,005
So that was when I started
to fall in love with the

565
00:33:35,205 --> 00:33:36,765
engineering side. Um,

566
00:33:37,945 --> 00:33:40,845
but I think throughout my four years
of undergrad I kind of felt like an

567
00:33:41,085 --> 00:33:44,805
outsider because I was good at it.
'cause I'm good at math and I like math,

568
00:33:45,385 --> 00:33:47,125
but then it's like, okay, what do I love?

569
00:33:47,145 --> 00:33:51,445
So then I did the study abroad and I I
did that and I came back and I started

570
00:33:51,445 --> 00:33:54,485
taking more classes on like
power systems engineering.

571
00:33:55,185 --> 00:33:58,125
And I was just telling
people, well, you know, we,

572
00:33:58,125 --> 00:34:00,845
they already had wind turbines over
there. They already had lights,

573
00:34:00,845 --> 00:34:04,045
they just weren't working. So who
plans it? And somebody's like, oh,

574
00:34:04,045 --> 00:34:06,805
well that's more of like an
industrial engineer. So I said, okay,

575
00:34:07,285 --> 00:34:09,005
I gotta like do industrial
engineering. And then they said,

576
00:34:09,005 --> 00:34:12,365
well you also gotta get knowledge
and energy policy as okay.

577
00:34:12,585 --> 00:34:15,405
So I did a master's in leadership
for sustainable development,

578
00:34:15,585 --> 00:34:18,885
trying to get more of like
an understanding of like
sustainability policies.

579
00:34:18,905 --> 00:34:23,045
And then I did my PhD in industrial
engineering with a focus on

580
00:34:23,885 --> 00:34:27,325
building models for electricity
planning and electricity policies.

581
00:34:27,665 --> 00:34:31,525
And then after all of that <laugh>, I, um,

582
00:34:32,595 --> 00:34:35,645
then I moved into this
role as a professor.

583
00:34:35,665 --> 00:34:38,765
So actually I did combine
engineering and teaching, um,

584
00:34:39,265 --> 00:34:42,565
and my research and now I focus on,

585
00:34:42,765 --> 00:34:44,645
I still focus on sustainability overall.

586
00:34:45,025 --> 00:34:47,325
But I think that when I was doing my PhD,

587
00:34:47,605 --> 00:34:50,645
I realized that a lot of people focus
on environmental sustainability.

588
00:34:51,145 --> 00:34:55,365
But when I've talked to communities
both in the US and in Africa,

589
00:34:56,665 --> 00:35:00,405
the thing that really hinders whether
or not people believe in the energy

590
00:35:00,405 --> 00:35:04,445
transition in my opinion
is do they believe it will
make a better life for them?

591
00:35:05,025 --> 00:35:08,525
And that's when I think that we kind
leave behind the social sustainability

592
00:35:08,675 --> 00:35:13,245
side. And that has been my focus. So
I still feel like I'm sustainability,

593
00:35:13,595 --> 00:35:18,005
even though I think a lot of times
I get labeled as, you know, the, um,

594
00:35:18,845 --> 00:35:22,325
DEI, diversity, equity
inclusion or the, uh,

595
00:35:22,505 --> 00:35:25,485
social justice or equity
or equality. I mean,

596
00:35:25,485 --> 00:35:28,605
to me that's all under the
branch of social sustainability.

597
00:35:29,085 --> 00:35:31,485
I teach an economic
decision making class. Um,

598
00:35:31,485 --> 00:35:35,885
but I have included people
impact assessments in it. And um,

599
00:35:36,635 --> 00:35:38,005
sometimes students say,

600
00:35:38,005 --> 00:35:40,325
well why are we learning all
this stuff about social justice?

601
00:35:40,325 --> 00:35:42,965
This isn't a social justice
class. And I tell 'em,

602
00:35:42,965 --> 00:35:47,605
if you think engineers made
their profession because
they thought a car would be

603
00:35:47,605 --> 00:35:51,725
cool, then you are kidding yourselves
because cars were made because horses are

604
00:35:51,725 --> 00:35:54,725
inefficient and they wanted
to be able to go farther,

605
00:35:55,075 --> 00:35:57,365
they wanted to be able
to better their lives.

606
00:35:57,435 --> 00:36:00,645
Like that is the point of engineering.
And I think that, you know,

607
00:36:00,945 --> 00:36:05,645
as now we are tweaking things that
mostly have been created, right?

608
00:36:05,675 --> 00:36:09,085
Like, you know, you could argue
that Uber isn't necessarily new.

609
00:36:09,155 --> 00:36:13,845
It's a taxi that you can call from your
phone, right? Like a toaster isn't new,

610
00:36:13,875 --> 00:36:17,725
it's a really tiny oven that only
works for bread <laugh>, right? I mean,

611
00:36:18,025 --> 00:36:21,205
but like after a certain point,
right? You're just like, okay,

612
00:36:21,205 --> 00:36:25,245
well like let's make sure
that the students don't
lose sight of what the point

613
00:36:25,245 --> 00:36:28,605
of engineering was, right? Like people
didn't call themselves engineers,

614
00:36:28,605 --> 00:36:30,485
they call themselves problem solvers.

615
00:36:30,905 --> 00:36:35,805
And that's I think sometimes what students
lose when they're just doing math and

616
00:36:35,805 --> 00:36:40,365
just doing like rote memorization or quick
problem solving and things like that.

617
00:36:40,705 --> 00:36:43,805
You have an audience of people who
are interested in physics and who are

618
00:36:43,805 --> 00:36:46,005
physicists. Anything
you wanna say to them?

619
00:36:46,065 --> 00:36:49,565
So I just wanna say that I think
that the world in our work,

620
00:36:49,565 --> 00:36:53,965
especially in the energy transition,
needs more trade off analyses.

621
00:36:54,805 --> 00:36:59,245
I think a lot of times the energy
transition can boil down to

622
00:36:59,845 --> 00:37:03,485
a few metrics that people look up.
How many wind turbines did we deploy?

623
00:37:03,545 --> 00:37:05,045
How much renewable did we deploy?

624
00:37:05,105 --> 00:37:07,645
Or how many greenhouse gas
emissions did we reduce?

625
00:37:08,145 --> 00:37:12,925
And I think that there is a lot
of topics that physicists can get

626
00:37:13,125 --> 00:37:16,445
involved in. Um, and I just wanna make
sure that we don't lose sight of that.

627
00:37:16,585 --> 00:37:17,355
So, you know,

628
00:37:17,355 --> 00:37:22,125
it's not just about how many electrons
we have flowing through the system,

629
00:37:22,305 --> 00:37:26,965
but also like how many electrons
do people need to create a certain

630
00:37:26,965 --> 00:37:27,845
quality of life?

631
00:37:28,105 --> 00:37:33,045
And I think that that to me is one of
the biggest things missing in our current

632
00:37:33,045 --> 00:37:34,125
energy discussions.

633
00:37:34,835 --> 00:37:39,165
When I have talked to people about some
of my work on the residential side of

634
00:37:39,165 --> 00:37:40,805
looking at these energy deficits,

635
00:37:41,185 --> 00:37:45,085
one comment that I get sometimes is I
don't wanna pay people to over consume

636
00:37:45,185 --> 00:37:47,925
energy. And I am like,

637
00:37:48,115 --> 00:37:50,285
what does over consuming even mean?

638
00:37:51,025 --> 00:37:55,405
We don't have a threshold for
if you have this appliance,

639
00:37:55,435 --> 00:37:56,845
this appliance and this appliance,

640
00:37:56,865 --> 00:38:01,725
here's how much energy you should use
on a regular basis in order to heat

641
00:38:01,725 --> 00:38:04,045
your home, right? But actually,

642
00:38:04,045 --> 00:38:07,085
if you look at where
energy poverty started,

643
00:38:07,155 --> 00:38:11,805
there's a Brenda Boardman book
that was published in 1991 and

644
00:38:13,025 --> 00:38:14,365
the energy burden measure,

645
00:38:14,365 --> 00:38:18,245
which or fuel poverty measure that
people often talk about is, you know,

646
00:38:18,245 --> 00:38:22,325
you shouldn't spend more than 10% of
your income to adequately warm your home.

647
00:38:22,865 --> 00:38:26,765
And she actually gave like, um, I think
like a temperature range in there.

648
00:38:27,105 --> 00:38:30,565
But now nowadays, when people talk
about fuel poverty and energy burden,

649
00:38:30,575 --> 00:38:34,045
often I just hear you shouldn't spend
more than 10% of your income on your

650
00:38:34,045 --> 00:38:38,525
energy bills and the part that they
miss is to adequately warm your home

651
00:38:38,925 --> 00:38:42,925
<laugh>. Right? And that's the part
that like I really think, you know,

652
00:38:42,925 --> 00:38:46,485
physicists could be really good at
helping with broader community could be

653
00:38:46,485 --> 00:38:50,925
really good at helping with of what energy
amount do you need to adequately warm

654
00:38:50,925 --> 00:38:54,885
your home to adequately cool your
home given climate change, right?

655
00:38:54,945 --> 00:38:59,885
And then let's think about the energy
system that we need to build and what

656
00:38:59,885 --> 00:39:03,005
it will look like. Um, so that
adequate warmth and adequate cooling.

657
00:39:03,445 --> 00:39:05,525
I just feel like as we're
talking about electrification,

658
00:39:05,895 --> 00:39:09,965
we're talking about bringing that more
electric cars into our homes and charging

659
00:39:09,965 --> 00:39:10,885
them from our homes.

660
00:39:11,135 --> 00:39:14,205
We're talking about changing out
all of our natural gas appliances,

661
00:39:14,205 --> 00:39:15,485
all of our oil appliances,

662
00:39:15,825 --> 00:39:18,885
and even now people are struggling
to pay their energy bills.

663
00:39:19,225 --> 00:39:22,885
And we just wanna make sure that
when we are setting standards,

664
00:39:23,385 --> 00:39:26,725
we actually know that those standards
are going to be adequate, uh,

665
00:39:26,725 --> 00:39:28,925
for people to live a high quality life.

666
00:39:29,665 --> 00:39:33,885
You can hear more from Destiny
at Environmental Research 2023,

667
00:39:34,325 --> 00:39:36,245
a virtual event series from the IOP,

668
00:39:36,335 --> 00:39:40,805
which runs from the 16th of October
to the 23rd of November. This year,

669
00:39:41,355 --> 00:39:44,085
destiny is talking about air pollution.

670
00:39:44,465 --> 00:39:47,805
I'd like to thank Ruhi and Destiny for
talking to me for this episode of the

671
00:39:47,805 --> 00:39:48,845
Physics World Stories podcast.

672
00:39:49,465 --> 00:39:53,445
And I hope that we've been able to show
that physics and engineering are not

673
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just about abstract ideas for serving
an elite group and they really can make

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a concrete difference to people's lives
and address inequities around the world.

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Thank you very much for listening,

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and we'll be back next month
with something else from
this wonderful world of

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physics.

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Physics world.