Bound with Vanessa Guerrero

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Speaker 1: On the beck Del Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing it with the beck Del cass Oh, Jamie, I dropped my earring down the sink. Can you reach into my drain and get it out? Um? Yes, I'm assuming that's why you hired me to come here, is to remove things from your drain? Is that correct? Yeah? And if you need to keep reaching into my drain over and over? Would you like to have sex? Is that what you're saying? Because these metaphors are getting exhausting for me. Gina Gershawn Yeah, And Emmy Jennifer Tilly, Oh my god, Jennifer, I get it. Okay, let's have sex. I would like to fuck I've created Wow. Oh that is actually an iconic Jennifer Tilly impression. Congratulation. I felt like I wasn't doing a very good job, but thank you. I felt like you captured the spirit. Thank you. Thanks. I think it was great. Um well, I think that was our best introid truly, many moods, years years, years years. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation. The Bechtel Test being a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, in which our version requires that two people of a marginalized gender have names, they speak to each other, and their conversation has to be about something other than a man for like a two or more line exchange of dialogue, and hopefully that conversation is narratively impactful. Right this is I mean, first of all, you really took control of the intro there, and I really thought it was powerful and exciting. Thank you, Jennifer. And yeah, and in the case of this movie, I really don't think we're going to be having many issues as it pertains to the Bechtel test. However, we have a great conversation ahead because today we are covering the Wachowski Sisters classic There I believe their first first feature together. Yeah, Bound, starring impressionized incredibly by Caitlin and myself, Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershawn, as well as Joey and pants Um Angst a couple of other people. Christopher Maloney is in the Damn Movie. Christopher Maloney is in the Damn Movie. And that's a really good point. Um, thank you. We have we we have so recovering bound and we have an incredible returning guest who I believe in text in our last episode, wanted to cover this movie. Absolutely. Yes, I think I might have been I might have immolated myself if it didn't happen. Um. I love this movie so much with every pore of my being, and I've wanted a reason to like talk about it. Well, but here is here, and let's introduce you properly. Our guest today is a comedian and host of the Kicking and Screaming podcast. You remember her from our episodes on Maid in Manhattan, Raw and Atomic Blonde. It's Vanessa Guerrero. Hello, thank you so much for having me back. I love that this all star arted with the rom com episode in which uh I had a four logo because Jamie had one, and then I got drunker than I've ever been in my whole life. I clearly well, I wouldn't say I clearly remember that. I definitely remember that. I just remember, like, oh, Ship, even like um, hearing the list of movies you've covered with us in the past is such a delight because it really just we've covered so much ground and we're only expanding upon that ground today with Bound. Oh my gosh, Bound, What is your relationship your history with the film Bound? Vanessa. So, there were like a couple of movies that I would see on i f C really late night as a kid that were like, oh my god, this is horny and gay, and this is very much like awakening something in me in ways that I can't quite unpack yet. Their mine, and it was like this and and I'm a cheerleader. It was it was usually like one or the other. And Bound blew my mind because it took the shape of so many things that I like and I had seen before, Like it took every neo noir Marlon Brando ass like someone in a tank top brooding in dark alleys that I've seen a million times, but put it into this like almost comic book perspective that just so happened to start two of the hottest women I've ever seen. Truly, I did that thing where when you want someone you try and take on their personality, So I was constantly swinging in between like hyper fem and mask presentations. Bound definitely like. I experienced a lot of like euphoria with this movie, and it made me love the witch Howski so much that I watched everything that they had ever made except for The Matrix because I was scared that it wouldn't live up to it. And I didn't watch The Matrix until I was like, I love it. I love it. I saw twell times in one week. I mean people watched it later, some people watched it later than that. That's all I'll say. I love all of that. Jamie, what's your relationship with Bound? Um? I didn't think I had much of a relationship with it, And then as I was so, I had not seen this movie in full before until preparing for this episode, however, I realized as I was watching it that it's so funny that you mentioned I f C and I'm assuming the like latesh Odds Vanessa, because I think I've mentioned this on the show before. My dad was like, a big time, like when he was done with work for the night and like the rest of the family was asleep, he would watch I f C movies like no one's business. And sometimes if you walk into your parents watching an I f C late night movie, it's uncomfortable. And so I do remember clearly one night in a movie that I now realized was bound um walking downstairs, passing my dad at the TV to get to the kitchen to get a glass of water and being like, Michael, what are you watching because it was a scene of Gina Kershawn and Jennifer Tilly making sweet love to each other, and he was like, it's an i f C movie. Relax, because Michaelofts is the king of punk and always has been, always will be. But I remember at the time being scandalized by what my father was watching on probably a Tuesday. And then as I was watching this movie that I really I've now watched three times and I've really really come to like I can't wait to talk about it because it's so fucking good and like not only like incredible for its time, but incredible for like right now watching it today shows so much about like what's to come in the witch Howski sister filmography, like, it just is so good. But also I saw my dad watching it in high school and I was like, oh, um, that's my whole history with it. I love it. I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie. I had never seen any part of this movie, not not even on the Tuesday No, but it was on my It's been on my radar forever. It's been on my list of things to watch forever. I just had not gotten around to it. So this episode was the perfect excuse. I've seen it, I think four times now in the past like two weeks. This movie fucking rules. Like I am sad that I slept on it for so long, but yeah, I'm so excited to talk about it. I kind of don't have a bad thing to say about it. It's all good stuff, perfect, It's kind of a perfect movie. Should I recap it? Yeah, let's recap it? Why not? Oh? Sorry, I was just trying to figure out there's a character played by Kevin M. Richardson. He's only credited as Cop Number two, but I immediately recognized his voice and I was like, Oh my god, who is this man? Who is this man. So he is the cop that is peeing in the toilet while there's blood, while there's a guy and dead in the tub, and his voice like I don't know, I just I'm such like I'm so animation filled them, like I know this man's voice. It turns out he is an iconic voice actor, and he plays a character in Delilo and Stitch franchise named Captain Gone to God. That's why his voice was familiar to me. He's been in a timing. You could recognize his voice from any you know, wild amount of things. But I definitely was like, oh yeah, and then he was like in subsequently Low and Stitch stuff. I'm like, okay, I feel so much better. It's such a relief when you hear someone's voice and then you can connect it to a cartoon character for whatever reason, and oh yeah, my brand's like oh cool, they're really get around them in reality. Right, You're like, that is Captain Gontu, isn't it? Anyways? Okay, the movie bound, sorry movie bound here here it comes. Okay, So Violet, that's Jennifer Tilly and her husband, her husband or maybe boyfriend. I don't know if they're married or just like partnered. Um, yeah, I don't put them in a box. I'm so sorry. This toxic relationship could be anything, could be anything. You're right, it's like a symbiotic toxic relation. Well, one way someone surviving and then the other person is a piece of ship. It's almost as if she's kind of like bound to him, but not because she wants to be. Yes, there's so much binding in this movie. Sexy and otherwise. His name is Caesar. That's Joe Pantaliano a k. Joey Pants. They get into an elevator with Corky that's Gina Gershawn, Violent and cork He make eyes at each other. Then Violet and Caesar go into their condo while Quirky goes into the unit next door. She's there to do repairs and fix up the place. Also a quick shout out to the score of this movie by someone named Don Davis, because any time, any time Quirky and Violet are in an enclosed space together, it's well, in the elevator, it's something like brown brown, brown, like it's like a very like it's very nineties sexy music. Yeah, it's like making out in the rain to like an m and s song Horny is Horny. I appreciate it and like, no need to play subtle here. The score was written by Don Davis. As you said, he also wrote the score for The Matrix, and you can there's a lot of similarities between When like I was watching Bound and I was like, oh my gosh, this sounds very similar to the score of The Matrix. I agree, and and okay, one word Don Davis fact and then we will turn. So I feel like this TV series that only I have seen has come up an absurd amount of times on this show. Is that The Beauty and the Beast. Yes, it's the Ron Perlman at the Ron Perlman Linda Hamilton's Beauty and the Beast series. He also scored that. And you can also hear that. You can hear the echoes the foundation of the Bound soundtrack. I feel like, if we ever end up covering Boundry on this show, the Bound track, if you will, if you if we ever end up covering TV shows Linda Hamilton's Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast, it's cannon. It's just like, if not good at least funny, what if we pivot for like a few months and just do a spin off series and just cover that. Also, Don Davis did music on recent covered movie Casper. Oh my god, the music, and that makes me think, like it's fall right. It's like so he sometimes is like riding on James Horner's pegs, if you will to put this in the middle schools, like he sometimes is the assistant to James Horner. So, you know, shout out to Don Davis for giving us a sexy elevator. Um upright, bass pluck vibe. I appreciated it. Love it, love it. Um Okay. So Quirky and Violet have encountered each other in the elevator. Then Violet comes over to the unit quirkies in and introduces herself to Quirky, brings her a cup of coffee. They chat it is very horny and seductive. I assumed you light it like I assumed you light to coffee black good. Yes, you're like. And then she's like, it's so cool that you can fix things, but these walls are so thin, so could you just wait a while until you start using your tools because I'm a night person. They're both just like a lot of skirls and silver, like, oh my god, yes that is very much their vibe where it's like, I like these women. I don't know if I could hang out with them. I'm threatened by them. I am deeply inpredated by them. I think they would hate me. I think they would absolutely hate me, but I admire them from a disk. I would be sitting across the bar from them, like, Wow, how cool. And then they will not be there here right thrilled for them not going to uh, you know, roll the diason whether they would want to talk to me or not. They don't. Hey, you never know. But Corny Corky is playing it cool and she's just like, yeah, whatever, I'll hold off on using my drain snake or whatever. And then she's like, by the way, I drive a truck, and I talked about her truck for a while. Then Corky goes to a lesbian bar. We learned that she is an ex con who recently spent five years in prison. She's a professional thief. Then Quirky goes over to Violet's place to fish out a piece of jewelry that Violet accidentally quote unquote dropped down the sink. You can tell it wasn't on purpose because of the upright bass music that continues throughout the scene. Here's my brilliant observation about this. So we just covered Imagine Me and You, and there's a scene in that movie where one woman needs the help of another woman to fish a piece of jewelry out of a punch bowl, and that is the catalyst to get them to like start getting to know each other and eventually get together and kiss. And that's the same thing that happens in this movie. Wait, Vanessa, you've seen Imagine Me and You? Yes. Um. Riley Silverman told me to watch it one holiday when I that there isn't enough gay rom com um and she basically like live texted me through it as I had my experience with it the first time and lost my mind. Oh, I was like in a Hallmark mood, and I was like, I want something, Hallmark. I just want anybody other than this like configuration that I always see kissing to kiss. And I got it. It's almost like what I get out of Bound, where it's like I want bulb, but I want it. I want two girls to kiss in like a sweet rom com me way. Yeah exactly. Yeah, this truly is a cut I mean in the way like imagine Me and You we recently covered on the show, and it's such a blast, and like even more so than that movie, I feel like Bound delivers on like a great genre, like the mafia, haisty thriller kind of movie, without any of the baggage that usually comes with that genre. And so you can just watch it, yes and have an amazing time, which is all I've ever wanted exactly. Okay, So Quirky goes over to fish this piece of jewelry out of the sink. Then Violet offers her a drink. She's being very seductive again, and then she's like, by the way, I'm trying to seduce you, and she puts Quirky's hand between her legs and they start kissing. It's getting very hot and steamy. But then Caesar comes home and interrupts, but he doesn't see them, and they have a quick conversation and we gather that Caesar is in the mob. Then Violet goes to Quirky later that night or sometime later, they kiss again. They go back to Quirky's place and have sex, and boy do they they have sex, and a continuous shot that sex scene was choreographed by Susie Bright. Yes, yes, and it's so amazing watching it even now in terms of like how how I haven't quite seen anything like it, because even when I see lesbian sex on cameras, it tends to always have this like heteronormative angle of like being like, well, this one does this, and this other one does this. And I was watching it with a friend of mine who is twenty five and she's a lesbian and she's never seen this movie before. I hadn't even heard of it, and she was like, I have never ever, not even important see a fem be the one that's doing something to the mask one, right, It's always presented in that like very hetero sense of like, yeah, the mask is always the one that tops, right, And so she had never ever, not even imporn, like seen this perspective of what is so much closer to like a common experience, seeing someone at that age watching for the first time and realized they still don't have something like that. Susie Bright, Hang you yeah, we'll talk about that later. Susie Bright, She's a legend. Yeah, that that scene in general, I like, I feel like it true. It wasn't until the second viewing that that even registered for me because it is so effortless in the way the storytelling us. But you're like, yeah, you never see a FM top, especially in like a bigger movie, in the way that this was, Like, I just was what a this movie like subverts so much in a way that is so effortless that you don't you may not even necessarily notice it on the first time, because the first time I was just so thrilled to see them fucking um that it took me to the second viewing to be like, oh right, this was actually like not the most obvious way that this scene would be staged on the part of of Susie Bright and the Witch Howskies like, it's just this movie is amazing, It's great. Okay. So the next day Quirky sees this guy named Shelley go into Violets condo and then Quirky, here's the have sex through the walls. Then the next time Quirky and Violet see each other, Quirky confronts Violet about having sex with this guy with men in general kind of calls her a fraud, but Violet is like, that wasn't sex, that was work, And then they have a kind of an argument slash discussion about it, and then they part on kind of bad terms. Then Quirky sees a handful of mobsters bring that guy Shelly into Violet in Caesar's place. One of these mobsters is Johnny a k a. Christopher Maloney. Another is this guy named Mickey, and Caesar and the other mob boys start beating the ship out of Shelly. What a wise guy types, Oh yeah, Shelly apparently stole money from the mob boss, so they start chopping his fingers off trying to get him to tell them where the money is. Meanwhile, Violet goes to Quirky and confides in her that she can't do this anymore. She can't be with Caesar, she can't be around all this violence. She wants out, She wants a new life, and she needs Quirky's help to get out of this situation. So they start to devise a plan. They are going to steal the two million dollars that Shelley had stolen from the mob boss, but Quirky isn't sure that she can trust Violet not to set her up, but they decided to trust each other and move forward with the plan, which is so the mob boss Geno Marzoni is supposed to come and pick up the money generic Italian name. You're like yep yep ye. So he's supposed to come and pick up the money from Caesar at his and Violets condo along with his son, who is Johnny ak Christopher Maloney, but Quirky is going to sneak in and steal the money while Caesar is in the shower for Gino and company show up, and then Violet is going to convince Caesar that Johnny must have come in and stolen the money when she goes out to buy scotch because she like fake breaks this bottle of scotch. I love that whole Like how many It's like not even how many queer troops are like shattered in this movie. It's just like film noir tropes in general, where it's like, in so many scenes, Violet is playing the part of like the typical like mobster's girlfriend who you see in the background of scenes but never has any agency and it's always like, oh no, what's happening, And like even he is like Joey Pants is trying to cast her in that role, but she will not be cast in that role. Yeah, it reminded me of the scene where I don't remember the guy's name, but in Double Indemnity, when the guy was like, here's the plan. We're gonna double indemnity his ass, and that's it happens. But then, and in this movie, it's Quirky laying out this whole carefully orchestrated plan. She's in control. It's so great. I love it. So this plan should work with Violet convincing Caesar that Johnny stole the money. It should work because we learned that Johnny is kind of a loose cannon and might do something wild like this, and that Johnny and Caesar hate each other, so it would stand a reason that Johnny would want to funk over Caesar. So with Caesar convinced that Johnny screwed him over and took the money, he will have no choice but to run because otherwise Gino will kill him for stealing his money, and then Caesar running will make him seem guilty, which takes away any suspicion from Violet and Quirky being the culprits. So the plan goes off without a hitch to start, until Violet tries to get away from Caesar. He holds her at gunpoint and won't let her leave because his plan is when Gino and Johnny arrived to collect the money, which is no longer there because Corky came in and stole it, right, Caesar is now going to expose Johnny as a thief to Gino by opening the case and showing him that the money is gone. But when this is happening, things escalate and Caesar ends up shooting and killing Gino and Johnny and some third guy that's there. I dkay, but he kills them. I guess kind of forgetting that the third guy was there, And then every time it cut back to the third guy, I was like, oh, oh, there's another guy. Was he just like? Did he just like hit the cutting room FLOORA? Unfortunately we don't. I don't really know that man, but it really sucks what happened to him, poor unnamed random mobster dude. So Caesar kills all these people, and if he can get rid of the bodies and get the money back, he can pretend like this never happened, basically, But then the cops show up and Violet has to stall them while Caesar hides the bodies and cleans up all the blood. Meanwhile, Quirky is waiting next door while all of this is happening. She's listening through the walls and just kind of like keeping an ear on things. Then Caesar takes Violet and they go to Johnny's place to find the money, which of course he can't because it's not there. So Caesar realizes he has to dump the bodies and run. But then Caesar catches Violet making a call to Quirky, and he figures out that she's next door, and he realizes that something fishy is going on, so he goes over and kidnaps Quirky. He ties her up. She's bound, okay, just like in the beginning of the mood just the us the name of the movie hold on but but also but also it's almost as if Violet and Quirky are bound to each other in like a good way. It makes you think. So Caesar is beating and threatening Quirky and Violet. Quirky reveals that the money is next door in bags, hidden in buckets of paint. Joey buckets of paint, one could even say, um. Then Caesar has that guy Mickey come over so that Caesar can convince him that Gino and Johnny never showed up to buy him some time or something. And then Mickey is about to open the briefcase that is again full of newspapers now, but Violet calls Caesar pretending to be Gino, feeding him lines that Gino was in a car accident. So basically she like saves his ass because she is trying to make a deal with him where they split the money and then walk away. Mickey leaves to go to the hospital where he thinks Gino is and then Caesar goes next door to get the money, leaving Violet a chance to escape, so she's running away. Caesar is chasing after her. Meanwhile, Quirky gets loose from her restraints and goes and grabs the money. Caesar shows back up, there's a scuffle between all of them, and then Violet shoots the ship out of Caesar. He lands in the pain. And now I'm back because it was like, it was honestly helpful for you to like talk me through a lot of the the mafia ins and out of that scene. Because I've seen this movie three times now. At every single time, I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay. When are they going to be back together. Like, I'm just sort of I register that there are various guys, wise guys making various negotiations and shooting and dying, and there's risk and there's tension. But I'm like, okay, but or right, right, right, And you're like, who is the third guy? I like, I understand that there's filmmaking taking place in front of me, but I am just sort of like, when are our gals going? Yes again, we need the gals to get unbound for me to really feel invested in the movie again, and I trust that we will get there. But even the first time watching it, I was like, Okay, I'm not going to remember these characters names. I know everyone's doing a great job, but I need some of these men to die so that I can get to the part that's interesting to me. Sure, so we're back. We're back at the part that's interesting to me. And then we get the big climax where Violet shoots Caesar. He lands in the paint that's been spilled everywhere, his blood is mixing with the paint. It's very cathartic, it's very metaphorical. You're like, oh, the innocence, the color Okay, this is based on several essays I've read. I did not get here on my own. Oh the color o higher day. Oh he's bleeding into her innocence and he never thought and block. You know, there are many writers who contributed to that intelligent comment I just made. I am not one of them. But it was a metaphor. Apparently, this is also how I had to figure out the matrix. I'm like, there were a lot of metaphors in there that were simply above my pay grade, and then when I read them, I was like, huh, that makes sense. Yeah, I know the christ One, and I think it was above the christ one. I can't. Oh yeah, if we're not on just a straightforward hero's journey, I am lost in the woods, honey. And I can accept that about myself. And look, not everyone on Redd. It's gonna like it, and that's fine, um, but in this case, in this case, it was like, Okay, Wichouski is way smarter than me. I read it. It made sense to me, and I was like, Okay, I get it. Metaphor, let's get yes. And that's about to happen because Violet and Quirky run off together. Quirky is like, hey, you know what the differences between you and me? And Violets like no, and Quirky is like me either, and then they kiss and drive off and Quirkies nine Chevy truck the it and we're like, hold on a second, did we just get through a whole crime movie without burying a single gay? Unbelievable? And soies, so many bodies, so many bodies, but they're hetero bodies. And I just wanted to quickly shout out before we go to our break, the tagline on the original poster of this movie, which I think it is so beautiful, Sex and Crime Forever. I mean literally me shoplifting at the v as on the way to a one night stand exactly. Yes, I get it. I am also a part of this movement. Okay, let's go to break. Yes, let's take a break. We'll come right back, and we are back Sex and Crime forever? Am I right? Forever? Right? Some of our greatest minds have said it, I might some of our greatest minds ADD departments have said it. I'm gonna get that tattooed on my body. Okay, Yes, where shall we start? Oh man, there's so much, there's so there's so much. I'll just start by saying, this is one of the horny, ist, queerest, and most sex positive movies I've ever seen in my entire life. So have either of you seen sunse eight? No, it's on my list, No I haven't. Haven't gotten to it. Sunset is basically the Wachowski sisters doing this for several seasons with as many different bodies as possible because they found a way to do how do I make They did a mind orgy. Um sounds like the sounds like them like eight people connecting mentally, all having a mental line orgy that all not at the same time. Sisters are very, very horny, but also they love anime, they love a Kira, they love ghost in Michell. So what you get is this mix of like hyper stylized, gleeful sex scenes shot like it's an action movie and makes me so happy. Abound are the two properties in which they're just like, everyone should be fucking. This is our message, this is our credence. Everyone should be fucking. Oh and it works and they do it so well because right this is like, this is a very horny movie. It's a very queer movie, it's a very sex positive movie, and it's also about two women being absolutely badasses in a way that feels extremely earned, in a way that fucking rules, in a way that like, this is a movie about two queer women, one who needs to get out of a toxic situation she's trapped in because of a man, and they help each other out and they trust each other and they lift each other up and they run away together and it's a happy, uplifting ending and fucking rocks. Something I really love about this movie is how much they made manipulation kind of like a one to you punch in these women's tool belts in a way that isn't usually viewed in a certain type of way in Hollywood. And this isn't me going like manipulation good. But the thing is when you live on the fringes of site, you get very good at one thing, and that's looking at society and figuring out how it works. And when you don't have any power, that's kind of the thing that you learn how to operate with. Like there's always that quote that I was like, oh, well, if the man is ahead of the household, the women over the neck. But like they take this thing that was imposed on them, and then that's the thing that they free themselves with. And usually when manipulation is porderating women, it's like they're going to be extra punished for this, like they're going to be extra hurt for this, or like, no matter what, even if they're escaping something, there's still a villain. And in this it's like this is a skill that they developed based on the positions that they were put in as, like a sex worker and a lesbian. They know how society works because they're constantly watching it from outside in and hearing people operate, thinking that they're not listening. And this is like the knife they cut through that with I. It is like I speaking to like what what you're It's like they're using societal like a an acute knowledge of what society is like because they've been subjected to so much to manipulate like what people expect from them, and I feel like inviolate that comes and and the fact that the Witch house Kies use that and also are able to subvert so many specifically film noir tropes in the process of doing that is so brilliant because it's not just speaking to queer tropes of the nineties, even though so many queer tropes of the nineties and even now are I sound like a fucking radio station? So many queer tropes of the nineties, auts and today are subverted inside of this movie, but it's also like done within the even more specific you know, It's like with Violet, you have so many fem fatale tropes that are subverted while also making commentary on how queer women are perceived or or fem women specifically are perceived, And then through Quirky, you have how butch women are perceived, where immediately when Joey Pants comes in, he does not perceive Quirky as the threat to his relationship that she very much is. And all of these like ways that Quirky and Violet are able to turn people's assumptions about them that are based in either you know, bigotry or naivete or somewhere in between. They're able to just levy it against them to get what they want, which is essentially liberation from this entire situation, and then they win. It's just it's awesome, Yeah, And the subversions come from like everywhere, because like you even have Quirky fucking up at a certain point when it comes to like Violet sex work, and like she gets a little bit like, you know, sullen about it and implies, you know that Violet might like have her like heart into her in some way, and Violet very much applying like you have a job and so do I, and like you don't get to act holier than that with me about this. And I love that moment was even there and that they had that moment together. To her, Violet could like very safely and tell someone like you don't understand what this is about, and you're talking out of your ass right now. And the fact that Quirky is able to like receive that criticism and course correct too, because that's something that I feel like if you put that same scenario in a heatera relationship which we don't even need to go down that road really, but but just the idea that they have enough respect for each other that when Violet pushes back and it's like, no, that's not me, and you are making assumptions about me that are not correct, Like Quirky listens to that, and it does like take her a little bit to internalize it, but she internalizes it, and then she like begins to see Violet as the fuller person that she is and like the more complicated person that she is, And I feel like that kind of goes both ways, where there's this trust between them that is established pretty early in the movie that is like, you know, because I mean even in any relationship, like being able to say to someone like I understand why you're making that assumption about me, but you're fucking wrong, and like listen to me, and to have the other person hear you and understand that, like that is such a powerful bond in any relationship. And to see that like established between the two of them is so awesome and you're like, yeah, of course I want these two together, Like yeah, this is like a rare example of a movie where it centers on a romantic relationship that I am rooting for and that like I understand why, like like trust being such a through line, and when they're on opposite sides of the wall, you're just like, oh my god, fuck me up. Just so good And how much of the plant hinges on being like I need to I just have to trust that you're not gonna hurt me. Yeah, right, And they do it, and then they both in a way that like again is very much just a version of film noir, neo noir, the whole fem fatale thing. I think this movie does something really interesting and that both characters are presented as like, you know, you're familiar with this fem fatale trope. Maybe here's two fem faytales, and maybe you don't know which one's which, and maybe maybe it's both, but it ends up being neither because neither of them are untrustworthy. Neither of them are like these like scheming seductresses. They are like mutually into each other and like not what's the deceiving each other. I would argue that like, in some ways, Violent fulfills the fem fatale trope as we know it, because she does turn on quote unquote the man she's with, she turns on Caesar. But like there's a whole like so I feel like it's like four D chest that we get a treat into here, because in some ways, as Violet is presented, she does kind of tick most of the boxes of the fim fatale trope. She is lying to the character who Caesar traditionally in a film noir, is robbing him. She is she's robbing him. She is lying to him, she turns on him and she kills him. But unlike every film noir we've seen, Caesar is not the protagonist and he is not the person we're rooting for. And I mean it's like it's it's not even that we don't totally give a ship when he died, because it wasn't like I didn't feel nothing when Caesar died, and we can get to this where it's like, I feel like Caesar's character addresses film noir and like Mafio so masculinity in a way that I thought was pretty effective. So it wasn't that I felt nothing when he died, But it was just like from the very beginning, you know, when Caesar's on screen, we're not getting that upright base baby, Like we're not rooting for him. We're rooting for Quirky and Violet and them as individuals and also for their love, which I also feel like it's so rare in any movie, Like you're rooting for them as two individuals and then you're also rooting for them as a couple. That really really works. Yeah, it's all about the framing and how this movie frames things very differently than we're used to in a very cool, refreshing way. We're talking about this scene in which Quirky, I feel like, exemplifies an attitude that was very common in the nineties and before and after for a number of years. The movie doesn't come right out and say it, but it's sort of this idea about like, oh, pick at sane, what is this whole bisexuality thing. If you're having sex with men, you're a traitor. You're not a real lesbian because you're out here having sex with men. Violet immediately challenges that in a way that I found very unexpected for a character to challenge that mentality in a movie from the nineties, and she's like, look, I know who I am. I don't need to have a tattooed on my arm. Also, what I'm doing is work. Is just work. And this is also one of the very few movies I've seen that makes a statement about sex work being work and that right, because Violet's like, well, I heard you having sex with Shelley, and she's like, that wasn't sex, that was me working. Even the tattoo mark is like, yeah, I'm them, I'm still a lesbian, like which in nine like it's is like why yield and even in two you you still get like that clarity you don't get very often. Yeah. So there's a scene where Violet gets into Quirky's truck. I love any scene in the truck. Um she gets in, She's like, I want to apologize, and Quirky is like, one thing I can't stand is women apologizing for wanting sex and violence, Like, I'm not apologizing for that. I'm not apologizing for what I did because this is like after they like finger backing each other. Um. Yeah, She's like, I'm apologizing for what I didn't do. And it's and we're like, it's like this like incredibly sex positive moment in this movie from and I just I like, I kept being so floored by different interactions and different scenarios that happened in this movie because I was like, this is this is so cool? Um. And we had brought up Susie Bright as being the choreographer of the sex scenes in this movie. So the way that kind of panned out is that the Wachowski sisters sent Susie Bright the script and was basically like, we want you to play a cameo in this or like be an extra in this. Are you interested, and Susie Bright loved the script partly because it was about women who just like, we're extremely unapologetic about having sex and enjoying sex, specifically with each other. But she was like, but there isn't enough like description in these sex scenes, like I can't visualize what they would look like. So then she offered to be the like consultant for the film, and then they hired her to like be the choreographer, and she's like a was already like a feminist sex educator, so she got brought on to choreograph the sex scenes, which is why they are extremely horny, but also like very tasteful and like non exploitative, which is something that we've come upon in various sex scenes between women, like blue was the warmest color, exactly, yes, And it's like, I mean, in general, even the concept of an intimacy consultant in a roman scene between any people was just like not something that was done. And I feel like we've covered on this show. Unfortunately so many at least extreme actor discomfort and at worst like crimes and like crimes and misdemeanors sex and crimes as well. Uh, but not forever. Don't do it, but yeah, of actors who were made to feel very uncomfortable in sex scenes in movies because you know, any director of intimacy was not appointed in order to make the movie. And so the fact that like the Wachowskis had a not just an intimacy um coordinator, but someone who is very enthusiastic about their work, someone who was like really down to be involved. Like again just a very ahead of its time. Like even ten years ago, if you asked me about what an intimacy coordinator was, I could not tell you. I would not have known. Yeah, And like even on my end, I've done like a few sketches and things where I like have a piece of comedy where I'm like making out with someone, or i have like a simulated sex scene and it's it's comedy. It's like being played for comedy. But even then I have somebody like touching me in a way that I'm like not used to because in general, I'm like, even like I hug you if I know you, so I tend to keep like an arms reach kind of person. And there's this like assumed comfort that's supposed to be there, and when there isn't there isn't really that, Like nobody really has the words for like, yo, can we like slow this down and talk about how we're about to make out? It's weird, like and it's one of those where you don't really think about it in like a comedy aspect until you're in it and you're like, why isn't there something for all of this? Like even if it wasn't sex, just having somebody like up on me, it would just be really nice to be able to talk about this with someone. And when you read, there's this incredible interview where Gina Grashawn and Jennifer Tilly are talking years later and they're like verbally palling at each other. It's fantastic, highly recommend reading at it. But they talked about that sex scene and they're like, shooting with the Wachowskis in that moment, it was more like sports than sex. They're like zero percent felt like sex because they were moving around us being like boob up here, hand here, moved this way, shift this way up towards a light please Like They're like it was so clinical. Yes, they were like choreograph almost like it was a fight scene, to the point where they were like we were worked like there was nothing for me about it. We were just at work following these like directions with like a team that had making sure it looked good in our well beings and mine. We would never know that because it's so horny. Yeah, like it's it really is, like just I feel and and and it was so nice to read interviews with the actors at the time and years later speaking to how comfortable they were because as far as we know, I mean, these are two straight women. I haven't read otherwise. I don't want to put them in a box. But that's what I you know, what I know of them. And and for you know, actors to be acting, you know, technically outside of their comfort zone in a way that they were made to feel safe and it's authentic, And there was a consultant involved, and the consultant involved happens to be an iconic feminist socialist, Like I just don't know what I would be more on board with, right, Yeah, Susie right, so cool. And she also has a really fun cameo in the movie as well, and that incredible bar yes, like she and she and I feel like she really owned the part too. I would not have guessed that she was not a not an actor by trade. I was like, Oh, you're a genius by trade. You're an actor on the side, but for you, so shout out to Susie, right, And yeah, that was just like generally so awesome. There was one thing I wanted to touch on before we totally went out of Film Noir, where I was curious what the two of you thought about this. But I felt like, in the world of film Noir, Jennifer Tilly is playing on the trope of fatal and it almost seems like Quirky is playing on the trope of detective. I feel like we're given a few different indications that that might be the case. First of all, because she's constantly listen through walls, um she she has a unique trade that causes her to show up places constantly. Its lock she picks locks. She has a criminal background. We know that she has been you know, in prison for five years prior to the movie beginning for quote the Redistribution of Wealth, And you're like, okay, Susie bred I see you in there. And then on top of that, there's also I felt very film no Wiry that she had had like a partner slash lover who had burned her in the past. Like it all felt very corky as playing on who we would traditionally see as the film noir protagonist played on in her character. It's so much Gina Gershawn's intention as well. It's so much what Gina Gershawn wanted to bring to that character. Because I'm not sure if you'll know this, but Gina Gershwan fired her management team because they didn't want her to do this movie. I did not know that. WHOA, that's amazing. Her Asians were like, do not do this movie. It will tank. You will never work again, and she was like, I will never get another part like this. I will never get another part like this because she read it. She was like, she was like, this is my chance to watch a bunch of Marlon Brando, to watch a bunch of James Dean. I think she said. Clint Eastwood was her other one, and she watched like every brooding, mysterious leading man movie and was like, I'm just doing that. And before sex scenes, she would just do push ups to try and make her arms looked as ripped as possible or like anything. She would like just start like working out right before that because she wanted her forearms so look super muscly. Like she saw the script and was like, I will never have an opportunity to be the hot leading guy ever. Again. I love that, and she's right like parts for women, especially in this era, were rarely the protagonist or co protagonist of the movie. They were rarely this badass or nuanced or thoughtfully written. And it's wild because there were very few female actors interested in these two characters of Violet and Quirky, seemingly because they're queer characters, and it's very few. I don't know who was up for the partys of her. Linda Hamilton's was originally considered, and then another Beauty and the Beasts, but I don't I can't remember what I read about why she didn't end up playing Quirky, But I think it was more logistical and it was not like it wasn't like a moral objection kind of right, right, but um, yeah it was. It was not that many people interested in these roles. But yeah, Gina Gershawn jumped at the chance to be in this movie, and I'm so glad you did because I freaking love her as Quirky. I have a good quote from Jennifer Tilly to this fact where she was talking about sort of exactly what you're talking about, how she was aware that many actors had refused these parts and was like kind of confused at it. And I think Jennifer Tilly is like history prior to this movie is also relevant to this because kind of what you were saying, Vanessa, where it was like, you know, Gina Gershawn was well aware that like parts like this don't come around every day for anybody, especially women, where it's like you get to be the fucking film noar action hero that also gets to kiss and fuck, like are you kidding me? Where Jennifer Tilly had been very successful up to this point, but she's been super typecast as kind of like an airhead kind of character a lot because of her voice, and so it was like this was her opportunity to play you know too, I mean, and she had been I think she'd been nominated for and possibly one an Oscar, which or no, she was nominated for an Oscar in so like she was a proven actress but was typecast quite a bit because of how she and how she sounded. So she said this when she was cast in Bound. She said, after I got the part the way said to me, you would not believe how many actresses refused to come in and read for this. I was really surprised at that, because actresses in Hollywood are always bishing and moaning about how there are no great parts for women, and here's two really strong female roles. To me, it just seems silly. And then she goes on to say, I mean, and this is very nineties. But when she found out that she was playing it by woman, she started reading out magazine. Sure, um, Jennifer, I know, we love her. And then she said, one of my pet peeves about mainstream films where they have a gay relationship is that people think they're being amazingly liberal. They say, well, we'll have these gay characters, but they can't touch, they can't show any affection or kiss each other or have any sex scenes like they would just naturally with the heterosexual relationship. I just feel like that's a cop out. We felt it was very important not to shy away from it and to be very matter of fact about it. That's what's cool about the film. I know. Um. She said that in the damn nineties, an icon, Uh let's take another quick break and we will come right back. We're back, and I wanted to talk about the stories conception the Witch House Keys. This is from an interview I think shortly after the movie was made or released, But um, they were just speaking to how there weren't enough good female parts in movies in Hollywood, so they decided to write two good female parts. Uh. And they also spoke to how they wanted to write a film noir with a woman as a protagonist and have a sexy woman but have her not be evil. I'm paraphrasing this interview, but their intention with this movie was like, let's subvert film noir t hopes. Let's make a point to like meaningfully include women in the story as protagonists and like have them drive the narrative. Not surprisingly, studio executives read the script and they were like, Um, we'd be interested in this if Corky was a man, if you like change that character to be a man, and the wow Skis were like, No, that movie already exists a million times, so we're not interested in doing that has and the rest is history, the history. It's the best, so good. It brings me such joy. I've never on every rewatch, I keep finding a new reason that it makes me so happy, whether it be like the cinematography, the storytelling, the crazy camera on screen, but that really is just like a fantastic neo no are It's just a real like it's it's so obvious that their inspiration was Sin City, but they made something better than Sin City because Frank Miller's brain isn't behind it exactly. So many things I love. I love the scene where it is towards the end Caesar is suggesting the quirky and her like lesbian feminine wiles corrupted Violet. He's like, what did she do to you? And Violet is like everything you couldn't ak make her come, come and like and treat her well. Oh my god. The fact that she shakes his hand with a violet all over her fingers, I reamed the first time I saw that. It's very special. Everything about this movie is very special. I wanted to also talk about a little bit about how Caesar's character does kind of challenge a lot of I mean, not quite as like film noir trophy, but in general just like Mafia masculinity and just like intense like tank top masculinity, kind of vibes where we constantly see that I don't even doubt that Caesar cares about Violet. I do think he does, but he is so like trapped in so many things. He's like trapped within masculinity, but he's also trapped within his profession. He's trapped within his class. He's trapped in like all these different things that results in him mistreating her spectacularly, and he doesn't. I don't know. I feel I feel like it's we've talked about this a million times on this show, where it's like patriarchy as one guy and then if you get I mean, this is like most Marvel movies where you're like, patriarchy is one guy, and if you kill the guy, or if you teach the one guy that he was wrong the whole time, then everything right. It's like, how oh my god, it's this is a separate right. But it's like how Benedict comber Badge is wandering around the most recent Doctor Strange movie like America, like and I couldn't stop laughing. That is the name of a character in the movie. But it's also the worst metaphor I've ever heard in my life. He's like, we have to save America. I know it's cannon, but it's silly anyways. But in this case, there's a lot more I think like thought portrayed and how like Caesar is trying to, you know, enact his masculinity over Violet, but she is not accepting it, which is huge in itself. And also like he is desperate. We see him desperate in so many places, to the point where he sort of starts to dissociate from the situation and becomes violent because as he's in such a desperate place, he is not the center of attention here by any means, nor should he be. But I thought Joey Pants did a good job at kind of demonstrating that desperate masculinity of like he just needs to have control over something or someone, and so when he feels that Violet is the most viable person to be controlled, he will treat her very badly. When he feels comfortable within his profession, his masculinity, his finances, everything else, he will treat her fine. And I feel like that is something that you, like, you don't often see like shown this clearly in a character, because this feels more like a guy that even though it's a joey Pants character to its core. It also feels sort of like a guy that you would know where in some circumstances, when he's comfortable, he'll be the nicest guy in the world. But when he is when there's a little bit of pressure put on him, he becomes a fucking monster. It's a compelling character to watch for all of those reasons, and that like you're literally watching somebody get get that like squeeze of being in a prison of their own making. Like every horrible thing that happens to him, he's asking who did it? And the answer is him every single time, Like nothing happens to him is really dumb. It's him, like Violet, not just him in that direction, but it is always him. It's because she knows he's going to be a ship head and he plays into it. That scene where he's like, you made me shoot them, You made me shoot my mob boss and his and Christopher Maloney and she's like, I didn't make you do that at all. I did not make you shoot Spu, babe. I didn't. Oh God, look, we don't have time for Spu today. That's another day. But but shout out to my role as an extra in an episode of I think season ten of On Orders for you. Really, you've ever told that story on the show. Oh my gosh. Well, I'll figure out what episode it is and then I will put it in the description of the episode, because I definitely want to see it. I do walk past the camera multiple times. Was this a Boston thing? Wait, I'm starting to It was when I lived in New York. They were shooting on a very narrow street and there was a take where the like, the sidewalk was so narrow that I accidentally like shoulder checked Merska Hargeta when I was walking past her. For some reason, they didn't use that take. Rude, but what but that's do you remember not to play into complaganda? What was the crime of the week? Um? Okay. It was about a woman who escapes from having been like trapped in a room allah the movie room. So then she's like trying to retrace her steps with Christopher Maloney and Mersca harget Day. I don't really know the character's names, and then it turns out she might be lying about this, but it's that was the premise of the episode. Anyway, Does anybody let's go get back to bound because that was were my fifteen minutes of fame and they're up now, well please screenshot we I I will take the lead on screenshotting if need be. So yeah, I I liked. Something I like to find out about the production of this movie is that it was financed through very like kind of traditional surprisingly traditional means for a movie that spotlights a queer couple. It was financed by Dino de Laurentis, who is like a famous Italian filmmaker, very very famous, not necessarily the guy that you would expect to be financing a queer movie, definitely the guy you would expect to be financing a mafia movies. So maybe the witch House k is just really gamed with the system. And also spelling films, um Aaron Spelling, like huge name in eighties and nineties TV production that you also wouldn't expect such uh And with all due respect to spelling industries, because I've consumed much of your content, but you know, not known for the not known for the intellect or taste perhaps, And so I thought it was cool that to such mainstream institutions financed such a subversive But also I mean, like we've been saying this whole time such and it makes sense that you would want to finance such an effective noir movie. And this was also, I feel like the nineties in the early two thousands there was kind of a good moment for neo noir, and so I thought that this came when it did. You saw it in so many different mediums, but almost every single time it was and here was the thing. I even like liked iterations of this, And as I grow older, I would examine it and I'm like, ouch, that hurts. Uh where it almost always starts with like a dead girl all friend, or a dead dame, or like some woman that we never meet that's dead before she's even like on screen, and in this case, even the off screen woman is like some asshole that's richer, Like right, she's not talked me over. Yeah, Like we didn't need to fridge anyone for the plot to begin. We didn't need to like there, there's just so many very obvious no our troops that are not included in this movie, and it's so well written. And also like I mean, we don't often talk about like a ton of visual choices on this show, but it's also just really cool to see the witch how skis in their bag pre Matrix, where like the action scenes I don't care about any of the characters and the Mafia shooting scenes, but they look fucking awesome and it looks like a witch Howski's action scene and it's very exciting to see and so like I don't know where I was, I don't know anyways. I like when you see the close up of the barrel of the gun and then you see the bullet come out question mark pretty cool if you ask me, absolutely gorgeous, Like it's so much background being graphic novels that they were like we think things as like by scene and not point A to B. They're like, we need to tell as much as we can and as little frame as possible, which is obviously why like neo Noir attracts them because like it's just a marriage of like that in comic books. And also this is the same cinematographer who would go on to do the Matrix original trilogy. I don't know if they did. And clueless and Bill Pope, how dare you, sir? How dare you to be so versatile and yet so talented? Wow? Clueless and bound no wait blank check clueless bound back to back to back what what? What? Range incredible? Also did Bedazzled, a movie we did not like on this show, not his Also did Spider Man two, okay, and so he's worked with Alfred Molina. He did Spider Man two and three Army of Darkness. So he works with Sam Ramya a lot. Then, yes, he works with Sam Ramy. He did Scott Pilgrim versus The World Weight. I'm becoming a full on fan of this. But BILLI Pope is up there with um j oh God. Look, we famously don't know anything about cinematography. And I remember, like I know who Roger Deakins is, though Bill Kundy is the one I was trying to remember. He is dressed hard Halloween. If anything's ever looked like gorgeous and interesting, it's either Dean Coundy or Bill Pope. Like you can just kind of look at something and know who it is because you're like, oh, this is sexy, like this is this is a monolithic image. Okay, it's either dem Candier Doll Prope. Yeah. I love how Caitle and I were both like Roger Deacons because one time we got fucking we got like rightfully schooled by Hunter Harris in public in New York, and neither of us had any idea who Hunter Deacons was or Hunter, Oh my god, Roger Deacons. Okay Deacons, maybe I don't know. He's very old. Does anyone have any other thoughts about Bound? I think I would just end with maybe my favorite quote from the interview that I beg everyone to read. It's Gina and Jennifer just like talking about some of the behind the scenes choices that they made, but also they're kind of low key, like hitting on each other the entire time. This was like, I think, like five years ago, and it's a lot of like the interview being like Gina continues to stare at Jennifer, not answering my question, and then just says something like I loved playing with her boobs. Um, it's fantastic interview. We'll link it. We'll link it in the description as well. So Jennifer would tell Gina things like, Hey, when we're shooting this scene, can you put my hand here so my cellulate doesn't show. Also, when this happens, hold my boom up like this so it looks plumper and perkier. And so she basically like between takes, I guess they were just constantly like a laughing and be using each other as human spanks. I that's trust. That is beautiful trust. And the fact that Susie Bright was also like involved in the choreographing of the scene. I just I love it so much. And the fact that they were honest about it in interviews. Oh my god, I would lie my ass off. Good for them, Yeah, they're They're also two of the hottest people on the planet. So you know, all with a grain of salt. Yeah, I think that that's all I had to I just what a what a fun movie. If you haven't seen it, it is streaming on Amazon Prime as we record this. At least hopefully it stays dreaming in a widely available way soon. But you know, run, don't walk. It fucking rocks truly. Yeah, the movie obviously does pass the Bechdel test, mostly between Quirky and Violet. But I would say one of my favorite exchanges that pass is when Quirky goes into the bar towards the beginning and says, how are you doing Sue to Sue the bartender, and Sue the bartender says, like shit, pause, Well, now that we're all caught up? Can I buy you a drink? And then they go on to talk about Quirky's job. Quirky says, I'm just here to get laid dot dot dot by a woman because they're in a lesbian bar. The whole exchange passes the test, as does many, if not most, of the exchanges between Quirky and Violet soum you love to see it. You do love to see it, and it makes you smile and it makes your horny, and what more can you ask for from a movie? Definitely passes the back to the test. However, what about the most important metric on the face of the fucking plant? You mean our nipple scale, in which we rate a movie zero to five nipples based on how it does when you look at it through an intersectional feminist lens. Is that what you're referring to, Jane? Yes, yeah, Um, I would give this movie honestly freaking five nipples, Like is there a reason not to? It's just like it's a pretty like it's it's a white movie. I think that, uh, warrens saying I'm pretty probably five nipples. Really like five nipples does work? Like? I don't really it it's kind of it kind of has to be fun, kind of has to be really no way around it. Right. It challenges so much, it subverts so much. It presents these characters in very nuanced ways the harmful tropes that we had been seeing in film up to that point and continue to see for years and years after that. It's like, let's instead have horny women be horny for each other in a very sex positive and non exploitative way. Let's have them be driving the narrative. Let's have them be able to like do ship and have skills and fix things and plan things. And I just love that. Like Quirky, she's the planner, She's the thief. That's her skill set. Meanwhile, Violet is like a very good performer. She's good at acting, she's good at making people believe like the way. She also has like the credit coal knowledge to like, she knows how the mafia works, right, she knows who's weak to what, who's insecure to what? Like who could she play like a fiddle because she's constantly at a front row seat to the most intimate behaviors right, Like, the plan wouldn't work without both of their specific skill sets and without any like Mary sus nonsense needing to take place, like between the two of them need to be working together with trust in order for the plan to work. And it's because they do that that it works, and then they get to drive away in the truck. I love it. There's a specific scene that like illustrates that, Like it's it's build Pope and the Wai is being like, we're making it obvious that they're like equal contenders, and when they're getting ready for the heist, and like Jia is putting the lock picking kit in her ear and Jennifer Tilly is putting on lipstick, and like she's loading her gun and Jennifer Tilly is like zipping her dress up. Like they both have very specific tools that they're bringing to the table that they cannot survive without. And that, my friends, is show don't tell. That's a screenwriting tip for everyone out there. I really, I really love it. Everyone's firing on. I just now knowing that Bill Pope was coming off of Clueless. I like to think that he was just cracking his knuckles before every shot and being like, not to worry, I just shot clueless. I got this. If I had just shot Clueless, I would not shut up about it. That that's for damn sure. Um, and the Witchasky sisters are like, don't worry, We're about to direct the Matrix. And everyone's like, holy sh it, what are you talking about? Um? What is that? Yes? So I'm giving this movie five nipples. I can't wait to rewatch it. This movie should be in more like film school curriculums for all the fucking classes that are like we're a new new like this is a neo noir class, Like why aren't you watching Bound? This movie rules five nipples and I will give to Quirky, too to Violet, and one to Sue the bartender. I'm gonna go five as well. I think that this movie is going to enter the elite Jamie Tear of movies I would fall asleep to, which is the highest compliment in the entire world. It just means I feel safe with this movie. This movie makes me feel held. I want to be with this movie multiple times a month, and um, I want to know every single word of it subconsciously. Okay, Like I do feel like it's it sounds like an insult, but it's like the shows what I do. But like it's like shows and movies that you're like, they don't necessarily need to be like calm, you just need to feel safe with them. Yeah. I do this with the Thing. I Bound the Thing, like I have certain movies that just make me so happy or like The Army of Darkness is another one that if I like, throw it on and I'm home alone, I feel like I have a guardian angel. Right. Like you're like if I woke up in the middle of the night and this was playing, If Bound was on and I woke up, yeah, you're like, Okay, things can't be that bad. Bound us on. So I really I am so happy to have this movie, um in my life. Now, I think we've kind of said it all at this point. I'm very excited to hear our listeners perspectives on this movie as well. Um, So, five nipples to to Violet, to the quirky, and let's say one to the truck. The truck in a way a character. Yeah, Vanessa, what do you say? I say, uh, you know the difference between me and no, I don't know either. Oh so romantic. So five nipples then across the board. What a rare accomplishment this is for a movie to get five nipples across the board on the Bucktel cast. So incredible. Shout out to Bound, Shout out to the Wachowski sisters, Shout out to us all, God bless us everyone. What am I saying? It's very late? Where I am? Okay? Tiny Tim, thank you bus. She literally pulled out the Tiny Tim card at the end of the Bound episode. You're gonna get Caitlin Torante and that's and that's that's how we keep things fresh in this relationship. She could become Tiny Tim and any Well, you're welcome, Vanessa, Thank you so much for coming back for a fourth time. We'll have you back for a fifth time so that we can give you our special fifth appearance gift that we have yet to actually um give to anyone. But it's it's okin jacket. I'm so excited, the Letterman jacket. But tell us where people can check out your stuff, follow you on social media anything like that. Um, yeah, you can find me on Twitter as an E. S. S. Guerrero. That'sn est Guerrero and s n E. S. Guerrero on Instagram. I know that makes it harder for people to find me if they're not the same. And that's on purpose, um, keep like a study smaller trickle um. And then you can find me every Wednesday on a show that I produced called bybe Check on G four. And then I have a podcast called Kicking and Screaming that's been on hiatus for a little bit because I've honestly just been really really tired, uh, And it's coming back soon and I've been missing talking about movies, so I'm very excited about it. You can find that under a kick screen pod. Love it. Thank you so much for coming back for this modern classic. Thank you for having me. You can find us in all the usual places. You can find us on Instagram or Twitter at becketel Cast. You can follow us on our Patreon ak Matreon at patreon dot com, slash becktel Cast, where every month we cover, we cover, we cover to are bound to cover. We are bound, We are bound and in fact tethered to our matreons uh community, and it's a gift of course where we cover two additional movies every single month. This month our theme is Bravely I know what you did last Midsommar and you won't believe the two movies we chose to cover. So that's five bucks a month, you get to bonus episodes a month and a backdog of over a hundred episodes, and you can get merch at t public dot com. Slash the Bechtel cast. Imagine that. And with that said, um, I've got the truck running. Should we get out of here? The whole mafia is dead. We should probably get out of here. Yeah, let's yeah, yeah yeah. Bye bye bye bye bye