#376 - Chris Tomlin on The Bizarre Full Circle Moment That Landed Him In A Room with World Leaders + Being Famous with Anonymity + Does He Feel Pressure To Be Nice As A Christian Artist?

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Speaker 1: M hm. We'll go to episode three seventy six. Chris Tomlin. We've done. We've almost in four hundred episodes. That is wild, all right, Chris Tomlin. And I know Chris Tomlin is and my wife was like, wow, I can't believe Chris Tomlin's coming over. But I didn't understand just how massive he was until I started getting into it. What are there only like four artists I've gotten a certain award and like Garth Brooks is one of them, and Chris Tomlin's the other. All over the world. This guy just sells massive arenas. So Chris Tomlin, I just want to get to it because that's such a good time doing this interview. He has over a million followers on Instagram at Chris Tomlin if you want to follow him, I mean, good, good father. How great is our God? Our God got to Grammy nominations recently. But it's just it's just massive what he's been able to do. Christmas Songs of Worship Deluxe is out his Emmanuel Christmas Songs album, and then he's all over touring. Go go see him. That's it. Chris Tomlin now on the Bobby Cast talking to my wife last night, and she usually doesn't care, like she doesn't find that things cool that I find cool, and she and I don't find things cool. She finds cool. I'm married to someone just like yeah, and it's it's great. She challenges me and loves me and and she's only ever really cared about one person that has come over to do this, and it was Ronnie Donne from Brooks and Dunne, who played at saying on our wedding, We're like, we're now really close to them, like we hang their friends of ours, Ronnie and Genine and so. But before then she just didn't care. But Ronnie was going, She's like, oh, that's I'm gonna come over. Never come over once. And I told her you were coming over and she was like, if I could, I'm trying so hard to get over there. I love Chris Tomlin and I was like, wait what she just saw my calendar too. I didn't even really bring it. Ups were conde and I said, I said, what do you know about Chris? And she said what him? She asked me what hymns we say in church? And I said, well, I went to a Mountain Pine Baptist and the traditionals I could go, I fly away. I could even go when I went to Pentecost of Church and my ground with like rock of Ages, so I think of that. And she started like rattling. She goes, well, our hymns were, and she started rattling off your songs, she goes, these are the new hymns like that we sing regularly at church. Yes, And so my wife's a massive fancil't me to tell you hello, that's so sweet, And tell her hello, You've been such an influence. And I said, what do you know that she's saying everyone a word for word. That's amazing. That's so cool. Man. I thought it was cool too. And so she's just a big fan. And I know we tried to do this and I was sick. And yeah, I'm I'm glad. We have a lot of questions for you, man. Okay, well, well far away. Let me just say that's probably the privilege, the greatest privilege of my life, honestly, is when people say we sing your songs in my church, because you know, gotten a number one songs and awards and album sales on it. But it does not compare, honestly to me, if somebody walking up and saying because for me, that is when the song has gone past gone past me. It's it's not attached to me. And it's like some music pastor music minister in their church just said, you know, I want to take this song and lead at my congregation, and I have nothing to do with it. I didn't say please play this song and that there's no label going to radio saying this is the single. It's just them picking it up. And then it's it's very grassroots, right, there's no And I just think it never gets old to me to hear that, because that's what I just always pray him. Maybe long after I'm gone, maybe there's a couple that stick around, you know, who knows. But it too. It seemed to me too that she didn't say that we had sang his song at our church. It was we sing his songs at our church. And there's a difference because maybe you this week we're gonna sing X or Y. But it was these were the hymns that they sang regularly, and I thought that was really cool. Yeah, I thought it to be in your world, in your space, do you have to be a really nice guy? I love you already because if you came in and you're just not nice. I would be like, I don't think you have to be like super lovely to be a Christian. You can just have a different temperament and be different. It's a different thing, man, I tell you, especially in the when people um when you're in a public figure and then an you represent faith, it's a higher standard it I mean, buddy, yeah, buddy, I just feel like it's it's very isolating, and it's isolating it oh, I mean, you're you're isolated in your world because it's just what it is. But it feels a little bit more when your sense of like there's there's an expectation that is just it that I think I put on myself. I don't know if people put it on me, but I think I put it on myself because I'm you know, you're trying to represent something that that you're trying to represent the goodness of God to people, the grace of God to people, and man, and I'm a human being and not even close to you know, perfect in any way and have just as many flaws. But it's you you feel like, man, I'll just let so many people down because they look at you. It's like, man, I bet you have a red phone to God. I mean, I bet you just pick it up and y'all have this thing and it's not that, and it's it's it's not that I just haven't had a heart that's wanted to serve him and had a heart to feel like a calling on my when it since I was a kid and just try to walk in that and it's led to this. I would never dreamed it, just like I'm sure you have the same story, like how did how did this all happen? But yeah, I don't know if I being a nice guys, it's the right thing. I want to be a true person that I think that's it, you know. I I want to be a true person. And sometimes that's about not being nice, you know. And that was where I was going. Is it sometimes to be honest with yourself, to be honest to whomever it could be God or to your wife, it's not being nice? And I could see where that could be problematic with your career representing what you represent. Yes, I could see if you posted a picture of you as is just me creating as area drinking a mountain dew that you would even have it's a different group of not nice people on the internet. But I would assume people would go, what your body is a temple? Why are you drinking mountain dew? If you're representing I would assume it would be that at times problematic for you to where you can't do any You don't claim to be christ or perfect gosh no, but I think people would assume that you are representing that, so you must be trying to be that, right, right, Yeah, you do feel like you're Oh man, I you do feel like in this world, especially in the world of everything is out there in public and social media, and you feel like, oh my gosh, you know, you do feel like I am How is this represented to so many people who have so many different feelings about you know, about faith and things like that. So yeah, yeah, it's I learned a long time ago, um that I don't have Instagram. I don't have but I don't have any of it. And because it's just I have a team that does it. You see my Instagram, I'll post every once wallsend pictures of something I want to post. I sent it to my manager. They posted, as they say, this good for you because I just it it. Um that stuff is just like, man, I have all the best intentions and then somebody just destroys you over it and you're like, okay, and it can it can just start messing with you. And so I'm like, you know what, I just feel so free. I haven't it's probably been three or four years, and I just feel I just feel so free from it all. You know, you don't do you miss having those connections? And it's definitely a balance sometimes I miss but then I'm like, I get on. It makes me feel so bad like I do it. It's not healthy, but I think I would miss it. Do you miss having those the ability to get with people like that because you have other ways? Obviously I miss the kind of being in the know. I feel like I'm not in the burnery account. You have one of those that's what we need, a Christalin burnery or you have one, but you know what, that's you and you just yea, who's that guy? Um. It's a just the analogy that I'll make and it's not the same at all, but it's the best I can do here. I can go into certain places in certain if I can go to New York, I can go to Los Angeles. I don't. I don't get bothered, and I don't mean bothered in a bad way, just bothered in general. If I'm but if I go you know, um places, people come up and take pictures and that's great, and it's the life I've signed up for most of the time. But it's a weird thing that I'm not I'm not famous. I'm known in certain pockets well. And it's also freeing at times because I can go places and have to worry about people taking pictures of me. Now you are so massive in your space, but do you find that you have the ability to do that, to to go certain places and just blend in most of places And it's really it's really wonderful. It's very wonderful. So obviously from my family it's very wonderful. I would say most of the places. And the reason and is most of my stuff is not visible. I mean this, for the longest time, the songs have always been the stars, like like your wife was saying, these are the songs we sing, and there's not like it's not there's not music videos attached to it, there's not TV things, there's there's nothing, there's no opportunities. There really not a lot, and so there's not a lot of places for uh this that mug shot there to be be or be around, you know. And so I feel like I have found so many times. Most of the times, probably for me, is like when I go when someone says this is Chris tom one, then the things change exactly all the time, all the time. Great example, you'll love this. I'm I'm at the down at the Down at thirty A Nashville South, and I was down there and into Jim to dude to do all the workout, and it's just me and this other guy in there, and I was like, that is said, I'm appreciate. I think that's Tyler Hobard. I know that's Tyler, and sure he doesn't know who I am. But I woke up and I say, it's the only only two in there. And of course he's gonna be in a gym, you know. And so I woke up shake his hands like Tyler, it's uh, this is answer Chris Tom. I just want to say hello, I knew her passed across at some point You're Chris Thoman and I was like I was like yeah. I was like yeah, and he goes, you gotta be kidding me. He goes, dude, and he just goes in this whole thing about how much my music is meant to him for so long. But obviously he's not recognizing me in there. I'm recognizing him because just it's just that world, right, He's such a more recognizable world of just of country music or whatever it's. It's more visible with your ward shows and all popular country though you had a little more of people knew who you were. Um that's a great question, um man, I think that ego and me would be Yeah. I mean, but I don't mean it's about bad or a good way. And we don't do what we do anyway if we didn't think we're so good at it that people shouldn't dedicate their time to it, right. I mean, there's an ego involved in what we have to feel a certain way to do what we do, and so do you. I think I think I think it is. It is an interesting thing because the yeah, I mean I just look at I mean, I think the respect I guess that people get or they're like the what or that whatever that is that it does for people. I really don't have that in in it's probably a great thing it's probably a great thing, and it's really and I will come around and I'm not trying to be it's just uber like spiritual about that. But this, this is this is the best place because for me, it really is about helping people connect to God and not be about me. And that's a that's so I think it's a really good thing. I agree to. I think it's a really great thing too. But it doesn't mean we don't sometimes ago I wish I had the validation because we we go through life sturge I do. Yeah, I won't put no, I'm human being. I'm glad you asked that. No one's ever asked me that. And and from just being really honest, yeah, it's like you just you know your your music is, it's just not it's not recognized like others. So I have a friend named Ben Rector, who is it just okay? And so Ben and I are close and I took one of my friends to one of his shows. He didn't know Ben's music and we go to a sand amphitheater and there's eight thousand people packed in here and he's like, I never heard of this guy, and he sells eight that He's like this is unbelieving. And and I was a fan before I was a friend, and I was like yeah, And I told Ben that story goes. You know, people are like that. They sometimes they'll they'll they know I do music, or they know that I play music, and they'll come to a show and like, wait, you do how do how do you solve this? Many times well like what's happened? Like they're just so surprised. I would imagine people that don't know and and in our world now is so it's so fractured with being with fame. There's so many ways to get famous and so many ways have notoriety. I would imagine people that we come to one of your shows that didn't know how powerful your message and audience is both would be shocked at the amount of people that would show up. They would be shocked, shocked, shocked. And I think that that is the testament of I think I always say it's a testament of the bigness of the church around the world, because this is not just this music is not just in the US, you know, because we can go to Oh are they big crowds in other countries? I didn't, you know, I never thought about that we can go to the Philippines and it's like playing three or four nights in the arenas. Just like, could you play bigger shows in other countries? Oh yeah, we were some of our biggest nights. I thought, if we play in Africa, it's like it's always I'm seriously, it's people. Do you think in Africa people would know your face more? Probably because probably I didn't think about that. Yeah yeah, probably, yeah, yeah, probably in the end. But like some of our best nights have been like South Africa, Cape Town and some in like Sopolo and Manila, in those some of those places like that because it's just a testament that the church is so massive and people don't you know, that's a weird thing to say, but it's that's not in the news, right. It's always when you look at big companies and big organizations, you're thinking all the apple and all the things. The church is so massive as an organization. It's just massive. Across this world is billions of people. And so you know when you're connected in the in songs connect and it's amazing because everybody does it differently, but song these songs connect in are across denominations, across different streams and different flavors, and but the same people are singing a lot of the same songs. And so I've just been fortunate to have some of those songs that I have connected the dots in so many places across the across the world. I grew up in a Pentacols church with my grandmother when I was really young. I didn't really understand what was happening there because I was so young. I grew up going to a Baptist church in Arkansas, me too, um and so similar because are both from the style, different passion levels for different things, and both of those churches and we would go to different sorts of Christian concerts. Another artist that I'm gonna use Christian concerts as the genre of music because there are other artists who are Christians and yeah, um and so I saw Newsboys, Yeah, Jarsa Clay, Yeah, Carmen yeah now, and the Carmen show was more of an experience like Organs and Pray. It's like, well, you see, like a church, sir. The Carmen one was was an experience. The other ones were kind of like rock shows. Yes, right, where does yours fall in the middle of that? Because they were different. They were different kind of shows A great question for me, it's worshiped and and that's what what is that? Right? And so since I was a kid, I wanted to um. I started playing. My dad taught me to play when I was a kid, and it was country music. So my dad loved taught you to play guitar. Guitar. Was he a good player, He's pretty good. He had a little country band in town. He would got a crewmen, very small town in East Texas outside of Tyler, and he would he had and he loved the Outlaws. He loved Willie and Wayleen. And that's what I learned. My first songs were those songs. And that's what he taught me to play. And but I and I grew up in the church and a Baptist church in East Texas and here and I would get a chance to play. Doesn't want on the kids that could play, so they throw me up there and I would, And I remember just telling my mom as a kid, I'd be like, I just like it when people sing with me. I don't really like the standing up there, and like I didn't know how to articulate it, but I just don't like playing everybody watching me. I said, I just like, like when people just start singing along, and so I do a hymn or something, people that the whole place to start singing. I was like, man, I love that. And so I didn't know that that was how God was kind of wiring me that that that was be my being, my path, because I was not even thinking, you know, I just use that, you know, music would be my path, but that we can get into that. But this is as I started writing songs. That was what it was the heart for me. I want to write songs, simple songs that people can um, people can sing. I want to write and it was this at the same time. It was this explosion of something. It was happening in Europe in England a bit, and it was happening in California with Vineyard, and it was happening these this explosion of this new music that was capturing the church, this kind of these new way, the kind of more of a modern sound and in these simple songs. And I was like, and I was writing some of them, and I loved writing those. And so for me, it's always been about the concerts are really an experience together. I said, I always wanted to feel like it's just everybody's singing together, and it's so it's kind of like a church service. I guess it would be, but it's all in worship together, so it's not really I'm not really they're trying to entertain anybody put on a show. We have hopefully great content, hopefully great lighting and all the things, but it's I feel like, um, I've always want to say, like this, there's a the two ps. I can either be a performer or have presence, and I'd rather just have a presence up there of like I'm I'm leading this thing. There's gonna be somebody that's gonna be on the microphone leading this thing. But I don't want to be like, hey, everybody check me out, look at this and sound on this, or check out how I can sing. It's like, I just want to in a place where, man, hopefully somebody the night goes Oh gosh, I forgot Chris was even up there. You know. It was just like I was just connecting, My soul was canting, my heart was connecting and helping people have that kind of experience and encounter with these songs. And it take great responsibility. It feels like a great weight, so in that and so that's kind of my approach. And so it's just this one and and it's the music is and it is different, you know, it's it's the sound of it is. Um it can be just meaning my acoustic guitar for fifteen minutes in the night, or can be massive, you know with the whatever. The modern pop sound is Church of the Cities. Where we'll go if I'm in town, you know, travel a lot and they put the words on screen? Will you do that? Yes? So people can sing it doesn't know it is origin on the screen. And that's because that's what it's about and for me and let's do this together. Yeah. I like that because then you don't assume that people who know the words exactly. Then people don't feel like they're not a part of the group. And that seems like the culture that you're setting is like working together. Yes, do you still merch your shows? What do you How do you feel about people if they buy merch and wear it that night? They buy merch, but then they put it on Are you cool with that? Yeah? Me too? Yeah, like we got if I got a friend of mine who's like, it's the lamest thing people do. You take it home with you and then you don't wear it to the show. You were it somewhere else. It's not meant to be worn there in front of the person. I love it, and I'm like, I love it too. If I'm doing are showing somebody wearing something that they bought that night, are already super passionate to put it on. That's the best. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, We've been doing something fun this whole last year, the last two years with merchant Us. I found this company called go X. It's the Global Orphan Exchange. You'll love this. And they they said, how do we We're gonna put a T shirt plant in the middle of the poorest city in the world in Haiti and help kids stay on slavery by employing them in their families in this huge T shirt plant in and print them in Kansas City in this place that helps um give people vulnerable people in the margins a job. And so it makes no sense. I went to my manager is like, this is this is amazing, and and them it makes no sense. The margins are because they're they're small compared to the big companies and these but like I love being able to do that and just we're helping and even the even the midst of even with T shirts, I was like, man, how can we do something that it helps people, you know, in the midst of it. And so yeah, so when people wear it, that gets me fired up. And I and I let people know that on our little on our thing, when they get they get a little things that hey, you did more than buy a T shirt. But this tour is employing people that would know otherwise would not be I learned a bit about that, especially in Haiti. Went to Haiti. Um my co host on my radio show, one of my best friends. She's adopted a couple of children from Haiti and she didn't plan to. She was trying to adopt um not locally but domestically, thank you Mike, and that felt through a couple of times, and so she was on a mission trip in Haiti met the kids, not brother and sister, but now they are and they're here, and so she didn't know. But I went over there without her knowing because I wanted to experience whatever, because I knew they were gonna be here and I was gonna be in their life. So I snuck a trip to Haiti, and it went over and I stayed there and met the kids and did the orphanage and and so what I learned though, is when we got back and we decided to build and fund a bread kitchen in the orphanage for a bit of the same reason, and that with this kitchen, and I always thought it was weird. Let would feel like, let's raise money and give it to them. But what I learned was, and it's the old you can teach a man to fish. What I learned was if we built something that they could then work two, maintain, sustain, and grow, you're actually teaching somebody to fish and not just giving them a fish. And so until recently because hey, he's in really bad shape right now, especially she can't even take her kids over there now. But yeah, it's it's um that that bread kitchen was doing really well and for years and years and years really gave people a lot of jobs. But I really it took that to teach me that how it's sometimes it's better not to just go, hey, here's everything, and temporarily it'll fix a lot of stuff. It's hey, here's something, and for a long time you can work too fixing the foundation. And I think that's fantastic that that happens there. Yeah, with what you're doing. Yeah, I thought, what a brilliant thing. I mean, it's employing, it's giving people a job, employing people. And and they were just so ecstatically, like I mean, we never had we never had a tour that's taken on this and in this this kind of way, and so it was it just increased every sales and so that's cool. Yeah, your dad, you can ask about him. So if he's planning in a band, did he have dreams and maybe they were just dreams or did you ever try to play music semi professionally? Professionally? He did not. He was a pharmacist, um, and had the pharmacy. So in the pharmacy we had the basebook card shop, and then we had the music. Um, you got a baseball car shop as a kid. Yes, are you kidding me? That's the dream. I mean, if you get all this other stuff we're talking about. We had the knell and round rookie card. I mean, wow, oh yeah, come on, we can we can go deep Beckett that you know, are you what do you mean? Yeah? Of course I know. I used to scanned that thing for you about Frank Thomas Rookie was one of my yesie, oh yeah, okay. So you get a baseball card shop in the farmers, in the pharmacy, and we go to all the shows, his basebook card shop shows and dad would be a dealer, baseball card sharp dealer, and he had all the he had the booth. And then because his grandmother found the baseball car that that that whole thing his his my grandmother. His mom one day out of the closet found all of his old cards when he was a kid, and it was the Mickey mantles and things like that. And he's like, oh my gosh. And he had glued them all to h to pages since they were worthless as far as like, because they were worth like that car is worth five thousand dollars and now it's worth five dollars, you know. And he's just like, oh my goodness. And so we would do all kinds of things, try to repair these cards and all the kind of things. So but he loved the bay. What Carcy had a bable cart shop and then he had a um music shop in in the pharmacy as well. So on the side of had some guitars, sold some guitars and strings and all the things, and and yeah, so he taught me to play. And who taught him to play? That's a great question. I think he just taught him. Uh he never said his dad anything. I think maybe he just taught himself. Just was he had interested an interesting person? Both meaning was he curious enough to just go there's somebody playing guitar on the radio. I think I'll try to figure that out. Yeah, Um, I guess so because he had he had this band in high school and they played the they played all the little prom dances around the East Texas and they were pretty good. I've heard some little tapes. They were pretty good little band, and they were just covering all the stones and everybody. But yeah, I mean, I guess I guess he just was interested enough. But I'm so glad that he put it in my hand. I got mono when I was a night fourth grade and couldn't over the summer, and all I cared about was baseball and and I couldn't play and the doctors. You gotta be in the house all summer, And my dad came home one day It's like, do you want what do you want to learn? Do you want to you gotta do something? You're in here? You want to? Said you wanna learn the guitar or the fiddle? And I'm so funny that because I look back, he doesn't know the fiddle. I was like, what if I had said the fiddle, because that was not gonna work out, But he said guitar. And so each day, you know, he would just write out I get it. In the morning, he brought out the six strings and put the notes on. He just write out the notes on the frets and I would uh work on that while he did work. And then next morning he writes another six strings, and what do you have you play it for him? And yeah, to write the next one's down when you make sure, okay play that for me what you learned today? And then okay, here's now, here's some chords and I would put them on the six strings. That would Were you interested enough to keep practicing? You know? I was? I was, But he had to push me a lot because I was really into sports and I just wanted to do that, and um but I would just I would. I was not interested enough to get really good. I was interest enough, just kind of play along and learn the chords. But he just kept pushing me and pushing me to keep playing and playing. And then I picked up piano and I just taught myself after I had a piano in the house and I was like, I like this, you know it's go. Do you like the piano better than the guitar? Yeah, because I can see it. I don't know why I can't the guitar. I still can't see it. I know where, I know where my hands go, but when I see the piano, I can it just I can just that's where most of the songs come because I can just see it. I just looked down and it's like, okay, it just looks like the melodies just come out of the piano for some reason. Do you feel like you were drawn to play, and not just play, but play and love performing in church because your dad loved to be at church, and in a way it was um that relationship with your dad was so important and if you made him proud of you, maybe playing at church was for him and for you at the same time. That's a good question. I honestly I can Since I was really young, I just felt like I've had this real sensitive heart to God. And I don't even know how to explain it. Uh, it's just I would just be I'd just be so moved by. Even as a kid, if things that all my friends saw were dumb or just like this is boring, I would just be drawn too. Because your your mom and dad they were they together. Yeah, there's a gather still together. Okay, they're both still alive. Was your mom extremely devout? No? I mean, yeah, they're both they were, but extremely to the point where they thought maybe their son would have a career in some kind of ministry. No chance. No one in my family. There's no one in my family in it. And that my grandmother AlSi says, just be a doctor. I was going to school to be a doctor. And she's like, that's what you're gonna do, and um and something like that. And so no one in my family is But but they but they were um. But they were strong believers and they were like the but but not never thinking ministry anything like that. You know, it's weird that a lot of artists will come in, especially country music, and they will grow up in the church and go to country. It feels like you grew up on country and went into church. It's like the exact opposite of exact everybody else exact opposite. So I made this record. I don't know if you Christalan and friends. It was a record with the all the country, with Thomas and ft O and all the guys. And that was the funny thing for me because they were taught. They guys were calling me how much um. The whole thing. It was all about the church for them going up and it's like the man, we'd love this record with you because it would give us a chance to like just put all that music out that we really want to put out and say some things we want to say. It's like awesome. And for me it was country to this, so it was it was the exact opposite, right, exactly what you're saying. My grandmother raised me for a significant part of my life, and I've talked about the music that I thought was contemporary music until I was old enough to experience and discovery contemporary music, and it was Andy Griffith's gospel records, and I thought that was just the normal stuff. H Charles gospel record, Ray Charles, even modern sounds of country music. But all that to me, Johnny Cash gospel before Johnny Cash country, but that was that was the stuff that she had, and so I grew up on that and feeling that that was normal as normal as in could just contemporary round. Let everybody listened to that. And I would say that we'd talked. I remember being a kid at school and they were like, who, who's Andy Griffith, the same guy in the black and white show that comes on? And I was like, hey, he's also like a singer, right, But I probably my earliest was gospel music before I got before I was like ten or eleven, it's really find it. What was your nine, ten eleven year old music influence? And did your parents have gospel music in the house or again, like you said, your dad was big into it. Was it was it was the Outlaws that was the music in the house. And it was always Willie Nelson was all day and Merle Haggard and and I loved Alabama, so that may so I became my band for you know, and I just really loved them, and this I remember um just that Dad and I would go to the record store and that's what I would buy. And and so for me that those early days was with those with those guys. And then it was the songs of church, and it was just the kind of the hymns and the church hymns. And then UM, as I got a little bit older than I heard this, I started hearing the Christian music. This um remembers band Petra. Were they guitar? Like? Uh? Petro was like guitar, electric guitar. Yeah, yeah, rock kind of a rock thing. And I was like, And when I got to junior high, that's the so my hand me like that and I was like, oh my gosh. I did not know. Oh, I just kind of heard the songs in church. I did not know you could do this and that. I was like, Wow, what is this? And I thought that was so cool? And then progress, But yeah, those early days was the Eagles and in the country, when you start to play I'm gonna say shows, but I use that loosely. When you start to play outside of church, did you ever do that, let's let's play this little venue or this bar or this just looking for anywhere to play or was it you really started in church and it grew from church. Yeah, it grew from Uh, it grew from church. And I'll tell you this. I'll tell you how to start. You're gonna love this story. And and if I go along, just cut me off because I can get going on this story. I want you to just go on the story because we have long Okay, That's why I want to interview you here, because I wanted all I want it all. This is, this is crazy. So there was a guy on my church. I grew up in this little against, this small church and this small town there was when I say, a small town people towns called Grand Selene. It's got the salt all it has the salt mine Morton saw the little girl with the You live where Morton Salt. That's where it is. So the umbrella when when it rains it poor. Is that you've seen Morton Salt. And we had the Salt Festival of the Salt Queen, the Salt Rodeo, and went all on the salt. I see. Everything was about the salt. And Grand Selene means great salt. So there you go. And uh so that's it's right outside of Tyler, Texas, and that where I grew up. And so there is a guy in my church who played music and at to other places. And we go and play in other churches and play music, and like he was like this roaming music guy. And I thought he was the coolest guy by my dad's age, and thought, man, what he was funny and he was just really great with people, and he was kind of a one man show, and I just thought he was the coolest thing. Well, one day, I'm I'm in high school. I think I was a junior. Maybe it's your senior high school and I've only played at my church. I only played it. And he comes by the house. He goes, Chris, I'm playing in Texacana then, but it will be about three hour drive because I already asked your dad, I'm becoming by the house, will you come with? You want to driving me today and you will help set up my stuff and you want to sell all the tapes and CDs in the back. I'm I'm junior in high school. And I was like, are you kidding me? This is the most amazing thing. Yes, I am in So I'm a three hour drive with this guy. We set up I helped him set up his stuff. It's it's a youth he's playing a youth concerts. Like five kids there at this kind of a youth event. He's playing, he's playing his guitar, and he's just playing some songs, fun songs and youth kind of youth group songs. And he's got his and I'm in the back. I've got his tapes and his CDs and in the back and uh. He stops in the middle of the concert and he says, my buddy Chris came with me tonight and I brought him. He's from my town. He's in the youth group and back home where I am, and he's gonna come up and play for you guys for a little while. And I was you had no idea. He never, he never. We had three hours and it was up the plan the whole time. I asked him later and he said yes. I asked him years after that, because that's this propelled it all, this started it all. I was in the back of this place, standing there, and I'm thinking, you had three hours in the car, you don't say a word, and had no time to prepare. I don't even know. I don't know how to play. And he just walks off the stage and there in the stage's just there and and all the kids are looking back at me, and they're all my age and I walk up there and I'm just scared to death and I played a song and think it was I don't even know what it was remember, but it was awful. I just know I was just keep me off the stage. I go up in the back and I go back to the tapes and he comes back up and finishes, and they're they're applauding. This youth pastor comes up and goes, Man, I really love that you want to come play at my church? And I was like, really, I thought, what whatman's music be? Like, Hey, your church if you if that's what you want. So he's like, yeah, come on, and I said, he said, we're gonna do this summer event. We're doing this summer wide week and it's for a week, this summer inf our youth group. Would you come be the music musician for it. I was like yeah. And I hadn't really thought this through because I was like, oh, I got home. I was like, I just said, yes, it's something. And it's a four week and it's like every night I'm playing music. I don't know this me songs I don't know. I don't know, only like three or four songs. What am I gonna do. I get a call two and it's two weeks before, um, I'm sorry about a month before this event. And get to call this guy's a deep voice. His name is James because a j I said, Hella, jameson goes, um, my name is James. Is this Chris? I was like yeah, he said, And he said, I'm calling you because I'm speaking at this youth event and I don't. I've never heard of you. And I just want to know if I if I, if they're gonna be there for the week. I want to know what kind of music you do? And I was like, and who who you are? And I was like, well, James, the reason you've never heard of me, it's because I've never done this before. Yes, And you're calling me in my parents house. I live in my parents I'm in high school. And he's just like and you did the long pause on the phone. He's like, um, well, what kind of songs do you play? And I said, well, James, and know like three songs and and he's like that's all you know? And I was like yeah, he goes, what can I send you some music? This was just this is divine man, probably this is looking back. I mean I've never had this conversation again. No one's ever sent me music again. The first thing or did because let me send you some music. I was like, okay to learn. So he sends me these these tapes and see these and it's these songs and it's these all these early choruses and of that we're happening to make in its way around the church. And I was like, oh, these are so cool. There were more youth group kind of songs. And so what I did is I brought note cards I made. I wrote every song down I learned on these old tapes, and I wrote all the lyrics on the note cards. I wrote the chords above them. And I came with my I had. I had a guitar and I had a little keyboard and had a drum machine. And it was me for this youth thing. And I walked on stage and I put all the note cards down on the stage like in the order that I would do the songs each night. I would get there early before the kids. There was like five hundred kids there, which was like for me, was ten times bigger than my high school. And so it's like I would get there earlier, so they wouldn't see my cheat sheets down there, and I would play the song. I walked up. I was scared to death to look at anybody scared at the said. I didn't even say hello. I just walked up and I played the first song and then I was stopping. I grabbed my mic stand. I would take it down to the next note, shifted over the next on the ground, and I would just take it down to the next note. Card be like, what is he doing? Why? Everything? So I was thinking about, like what that must have looked like for kids. It's like, wow, he starts every now and that side and he ends up at this side. He just to kind of moves his way down the stage. And that's why I did not obviously didn't know what he was doing. End of that week, I tell that story to say, at the end of that week, this guy named James. He comes to me and he says two things, man and he and he would kind of help me through the week and say, hey, man, you we might want to like say hello to people. You might want to welcome him me. You might want to like, you know, just say hey, he sings with me or something. And so, but every week he was very encouraging. But at the end of the week, he's had two things I wanna tell you. One is, you have no idea what you're doing. And I was I never forget it was that direct, because you have no idea what you're doing. And he said, secondly, because you have no idea how God's going to use your songs all over the world. And I was just staring at him, dumbfounded, and I don't know what's talnging about because I don't have any songs and it's no cards other people other people songs. He goes, Man, I'm as I'm in praying for you this week. I just had a sense that you're gonna write songs and the world's gonna sing these songs. And then he just did something that was crazy, that was not Baptist at all. He just put his hand on the standing at me, just staring at me, just like I'm staring at you, and just put his hand on my head and he's and he just there was no head bowed. I was closed. He said, God, would you make Chris a psalm writer, not a song but a psalm writer for his generation? And man, it was like lightning went through me. I was just like what is going on? And that began this journey and he said, man, I'm gonna go speak at things and I'm going to do some you know, I'm gonna speak and do it. And whenever I go speak and have you can play with me, come play. And that started this this whole journey of like I just now, I was just graduating high school and I was like, wow, all these these opportunities started to coming to play music and I started, so I started to write, write songs, write these simple songs, like I was saying, I wonder to write songs people would sing, And so I started writing these songs. Fast forward twenty five years and James calls me one day and he said, hey, man, Um, he's been in he'd been in Oklahoma and he'd been doing some He's been like a pastor there and doing something like ministry there. He's like, I just feel like I need to be I feelt for some reason, I just sever real since that I need to be um in politics and government. And I'm just gonna ask if you'd pay it back. And I was like, what do you mean. He goes he said, man, I'm around a campaign for Congress for Oklahoma, and would you come and campaign with me? Which could you get a crowd at all these different little towns and and uh and then and and I'll share a division for Oklahoma. And I was like okay, and I said, absolutely, man, you did so much for me for absolutely, so we did that lo and behold he wins the election, becomes us congressman in Oklahoma. And I was like, awesome, when did the top this part? This was this was like six years ago, six seven years ago, that recent. Yeah, so you're gonna love this. So I'm he's a he's a congressman. Turned on CNN one day and there he is with Wolf Blitzer and I'm looking and says and it says Senator James Langford. And I was like Senator James Lankford. And I was like I could texted. I was like, dude, you were congressman. How are you a senator? He goes, well, the senates he came open within two years and I and I it had been two years since I talked to him. He goes, and I ran for that and I'm a senator. And he said at that time he was sitting on the fore and he was dealing with isis is when iis was going crazy and he was dealing with that. And then now he sits on the on our Finance Committee for the United States, and um, he is. And so he had a few years ago he was elected. He was every year a Republican and Democrat do do the National Prayer Breakfast together. And he was person who chaired the National Prayer Breakfast. So he called me and he said, why don't you do this with me? This story is wild? So he called me, and here is me and James. I get choked up every time standing there in front of I don't know, three thousand world leaders. I mean, it's all the world, and it's it's Jews, Muslim, it's all kinds of faith. Come. It's mostly a Christian thing, but it's they it's all kind of faith as well. And they've got overflow seating and they got everything, and you know, and the president's there and the vice president and and there's it's me and James, the president and vice president at the table and and um and Senator Coon's um from the um was it was James partner in it. And so the president vice president are there? Yes, which President Vice President Trump and Pence. Just everybody's just there. Yes, And sitting in front of me is Nancy Pelosi and um and uh bar the Secretary State bar At that time, we're turning Attorney General Barbs Pompeo. These people are all like fiction ultimate because they're so famous. Yeah, I'm sitting next to the Donald and uh, I'm just like what what what? What? What's going on? And I'm like, what's going on? And James is leading this thing and I am playing and I'm thinking to myself the whole time. They people know my music as Chris Tomwin. They have no idea that this guy James next to me. I was seventeen years old, you know. And he said, you're gonna write songs and the whole world is gonna sing them. And now we're kind of in front of the world, be together as far as leaders, world leaders. And it was the most full circle thing that I just I'll never forget it. I just stood there. It's like I would have never dreamed this. Lord, you just like, how has this happen? You know? This is this is this was crazy and it was just a beautiful, beautiful moment. And so yeah, that's a that's kind of the story of where it came. So there was never any other trajectory of like I gonna go do other things. It was just it started with that one little moment of playing out from the guy in my church saying get up there and play to that youth. Pastor saying being there, just first, just being there, being there, these pastors just saying, what you play on my trip My thing advised this guy named James to speaker James, like, you have no doubt you're doing. Here's some songs to learn too. You're gonna write songs that people gonna sing them to, somebody believing you, everybody. You know, it's that moment where people somebody believes in you, right, and they look at you and go they see something you don't see because I had no idea. I had no idea I had any of that in me. But he' said, man, I see this in you, and you're gonna do something great. And I was like, what are you talking about? And it started this and it started his journey that that here and I'm here and I'm sitting with you and it's just crazy. Well, I guess I think the journey. You're losing steam if you're with me. It was like, look at all the great stuff I've done, and now I'm here with you. Something going down. If you're not saying that down, you don't even did quite amazing thing that is that is a really great story. The guy that's like, yeah, hey bro, uh yeah, he's the guy that helped you. And it's now a senator, senator, Yes, that one of the hundreds that. Yeah, that's a gread. I'm glad you told the whole story. Yeah, I wouldn't plan on doing that, but yeah, it's it's crazy to think about your parents as they watch you do this. What what do they say? And how long? How long do they go from we can't believe it too. We're just so proud and you continue to impress because there's a difference in that what what what's been that relationship? Yeah, it's been amazing. My little town, you know, has the they have the street they named main street, um, Chris Tallen Boulevard. Uh in my little big town and has the billboard and you know you don't have to buy about speeding and so my parents are very and I know that my parents are behind all that. Let's that's why I'm trying to say that's what, that's why it happened. And they're so they're so proud and they're so and there's not a lot going on in my town, so this is a big deal and it's funny. So just down the street from me, fifteen twelve miles on the street is Lyndall and it's got the Miranda Lambert Um thing and then gold Albert Golden is right there with the Casey most Graves thing, and then it's all these little talents right there have all these singers from them, but which is fun. But they are, yeah, they they're they're so proud and so grateful, and they're always they're they're always in shock. I mean just this recent was just nominated for a couple of Grammys this year, and that my mom is just like, I can't I just she says, I still cannot believe that's cool. I still cannot believe this is my son. You know, if you got to take them to do anything that you were super proud to be able to take them to do, because you're like, because I when I when I take my sister somewhere, or because I don't A lot of my family is not alive anymore. But if if I get to take one of my friends from back home, I'm my friends now and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go do this and we're gonna go on a private plane and stuff I've never got to do in a million years. But now that I'm able to have some success, I got to do cool things. The best thing about it is taking the people that have always been there with you to do these cool things. Yes, do you have you get to do that with your parents at all? Yes? Um. I've taken my mom to UM uh to several things. Secondment, taking them to UM the Gospel Music Awards and I has got to be Artists of the Year and that kind of thing, and they're just like amazing. I took my dad to his dad Let's baseball, so I was doing there. This was years ago. Cardinals UM had a uh family not or something. I did the concert after the Cardinals game, and to be so cool. I think my dad He's just like this is just crazy. That be so cool for him. Yeah, yeah, my step dad. It was a huge I'm a huge Cups fan as well, big sports. Just massive in sports too, And you know, I can grow. We would have any money at all, and so he had never even been to a Cubs game. And so when I started, when I started doing okay and I loved in Austin, really formed a lout of my career in Austin, and I was like, hey, had a little money is I'm gonna fly you Chicago. I'll meet you go to Cubs game. First time went to a game and smash cut. Like seven years later, I was throwing out the first pitch and I took when we went on the field, and he was like, this is the greatest thing in my life. And that to me was cooler than throwing out the first pitch was being with him when he was like, I cannot believe him on the field at Wrigley Field. This is the coolest day. That was what it was all about. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And it's so exciting that your parents are. They've gotten to do a lot of things with me and share a lot of moments. Obviously every time I play in Texas there there um what about your wife and that if you are in the Christian space, how do you do date? Because unless she how does she meet you? I guess that's gonna start. That's a good that's a good way to start it. Yeah, great question, because she was I. I was got married later in life, and I could not figure that part of my life out for a long time. Old. Okay, I'm ready at forty. Just got ready for the first time year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're very similar. So it was I'd lived in Texas my whole life. I live in Austin for good, good bit and I was living in Austin, and then I I went to Atlanta, moved to Atlanta to help plant this church there from this for this college ministry I was doing. It turned into a church called Passion, And um, I was playing this church there and my second week there, I'll even do like two people in Atlanta. In a second week there, my buddy said, hey, I let me introduce this girl. And that's how it was. He because it was a blind date. He said, Um, I said, well, I'm going to I'm traveling this week. I want to come back. Let's put together. We went on blind day, like the four of us, him and his girlfriend, and you know, and she loved I wish she was here because she would just dog me the whole time. But um, she just destroyed me. She said, didn't look at her the whole day, the whole first day, didn't say a word to her, which is pretty much true. Was pretty intimidated and pretty shy, and somehow God worked it out. We lost it, lost it all. She said. You know, I wasn't I was pretty much a normal guy. Couldn't commit. She was like, all right, I'm out of here. And when I finally figured it out, she was about to engage to another person, and all the things and that fell apart and it was just a crazy story. But here we are, and but it was a friend set me up. And you're right, because it is. It is a weird thing the whole. I mean, you're if you're again, you can be a Christian or you can be someone who is known as a significant person in the Christian marketplace. And if that's the case, they were like, yeah, this is Chris Tomlin. He's you know from I'd be like, oh, you probably don't hold hands like the tenth of days, so I would wonder a day or are you just kind of normal, very normal man, very normal and just yeah, I was all over the place with with girls and yeah it was it wasn't like that, but yeah, there is an expectation I think there, of course. And but she was she was great because she didn't really know my songs. She was she was Christian and grew up and her dad was in ministry and all the kind of things. But they were they just she wasn't like tuned into it was the whole thing. She knew the song. She had no idea for me. So there was a couple of songs as we got you know, after we got married, she would be like, oh, you wrote that song. It was always like, oh my gosh, I used to love that song. That's yours. It was that kind of thing. It was a lot of that. So that was so I knew it wasn't. I knew I've found somebody because she walked away from me, you know, and I knew I found somebody. It wasn't in it for um what that what that life could give her or anything like that. You know, she was she was in it for me and I wasn't in And that's been that's been so true, and I've been so blessed so a songwriter. Being a songwriter in this town. One of the struggles not me, I mean I do, but it's comedy stuff. But one of the struggles a lot of my friend to is trying to find concepts that are slightly different than every other concept that's been conceptualized over and over again, because it's all basically the same. But you've got to find a one percent difference to do a new song about it. I would have. My assumption is you deal with that as well. Yeah, I mean, you're writing about the one thing, right, and that that is um bringing people to God. And for me, it really comes down to this. When I think about songs, it is helping people. I've always thought worship is helping people see one of this sing Worship is not about singing, it's about seeing. It's about your eyes seeing. And what I mean by that is, so I try to write songs. I try to find that way that people can see something that they haven't and that that maybe opens their eyes to something like oh, oh my goodness, and yes that is that's and so finding that one little, one little different way of saying that. Like he said that, he's like, oh man, sometimes it's not sometimes just simple. I wrote this song called how Great is Our God? And it is, of course, is how Great is Our God? Sing with me how great is our God? All we'll see how great, how great? How great is our God? And when I wrote that, I was just sitting there in my room in Austin, in my apartment, just with just strumming and singing that chorus, thinking that's not that's too simple, that's going nowhere, And somehow it's just took off and this sung everywhere. So sometimes it's not the most brilliant thing. It's just something that just captures something. But I'm always trying to help people see and and connect with songs. And that's that's what it's been for me. How do you deal with success? And I'll share my version and be a bit vulnerable so you can see the direction I'm going here. Um. I grew up in poverty most of my life. Always felt like I stood up for the person that was like me. Always felt like I was a voice of someone who had been there, even though I was trying to break that cycle. My mom died. She was an attic, died in her forties. My dad left when I was five or six. My grandmother adopted me for a while. I was an outis so there was a lot of moving around and it was very resentful. About that for a long time until I understood the value in it. Now, it's very lucky that I was able to get through that and understand now that I have a very very sharp tool called empathy. It's the greatest tool I could ever have ever. And so my my goal, even a passion for most of my career, has been speaking for the people that I feel aren't spoken for because there's not a lot of value and what our society deems valuable in speaking for them. I understand why people would stand up for business because but people that are struggling, they usual don't have people speaking for them. Because people that are making decisions didn't usually don't struggle. Most politicians come from something or have a path there most not all, but most so. But as I started to have more success and then have just in my mind this crazy amount of success, and then I'm making a lot of money and people are like, well, look at you, you're changing. Oh, look at you. It's a nice watch you got there. And I'm and I'm going to two things when I'm going, Man, I can now buy every pair of shoes ever wanted. I had to wear yard cell shoes as a kid, So it's like, I just want to I just want to have these shoes. We never had a car that ran. I want to have an awesome car. And at the same time, I'm doing things, but people are going, wait, no, I thought you're the man of the people. You got a tesla. I don't anymore, but you got you gotta tesla. You're not. That's not even for real. And it's I it's still has bothers him to me and I have to and my wife is great about it, and she talks me down because I start to have guilt and I start to how do you deal with that? Because I don't have it down and I have guilt sometimes And I'm proud at the same time because I was able to get out of this and I the bigger my platform and where I can give back. But I'm still making more and things are awesome in that capacity. But it is and it's not a real problem. And I don't say, like everybody listen to still sorry for me, because it's a real problem. It's just something. How do you deal with that? Because you have unparalleled success, there's nobody and where you do it that does it like you do at the level. There has to be some of that there because you're able to eat just fine. Yeah, I've been very blessed and very Yeah, and it is a it is a you are saying it, man, and I don't have an answer. And what I the answer is that you are in it, that you are wrestling with it is amazing good thing because the day you're not and is when it's like to me, the day I don't wrestle with all the blessings I've been given and what I do with it, and I don't wrestle with that. To me, it's over. It will be over quick. And you know, Laura I talked about a lot. I mean we probably grew up not not exactly alike, but similar am starting a trailer house and um, and it was like there was you know two you know, to to growing up fine but nothing like you know, very you know, middle class at best and and yeah, and Laura, I talked about it with our kids. Have three girls, and you know, it's like they're not right. They weren't in the environment I was in. And what how do we do that? How do we keep that grounded? And um, you know we do the same thing. Um. I just coming from here, um coming to your podcast. I was just on a Zoom call for a good bit of the morning with a foundation my wife and I have for for kids who don't have families in our country and doing the trying to fight every day for that and instill that in our kids. Of like, there are so many kids that do not have what And so the best thing that I feel like I've always been able to do is use my influence, um the influence I've been given to help others. And I think you do that, and you're doing that, and you have the heart to do that, and that's man, that's the best, the best, best reason for giving influence. Guilt for success though ever, or or some of the stuff that success can give you, because I do wrestle with it. And I also and again I'm also proud. It's a weird thing because I am ashamed and proud at the same time. I have guilt. I have. I don't know if guilt is maybe guilty to grow And yeah, it's always perspective. I lose perspective fast of I think I'll lose perspective fast, and I in it. And it doesn't take you that long to realize I don't have problems and that's why I said that too. And I'm giving you this because we're talking about this. It's not a problem. It's not a problem. Yeah, I don't have problems I have I'm I'm I'm helping people, trying to help people who have are going through real, real struggles and have not been given the things that I've been given or the opportunities. And that is that puts you in a place of humility, puts you in a place of you know, a soberness of you know. And that's the call of faith. Man, that's the call of I looked at my phone because you know now your Bibles on your phone. But that is the call of God's word. Right, That's what this is all about, is the least of these And and if I'm not living that out, then then I need to stop doing. I need to stop saying about all that that right, all these things. You know what I'm trying to say, I do. I do because I feel what you're trying to say. It's like when you sing your songs are like can you feel like can you see it? Like? I do know what you're saying, don't you know? It's um, I don't know. I struggle with that. I never feel like I'm doing enough. It doesn't matter what I do. I so I've now understood that it doesn't matter what I do, I'm never gonna feel like I'm doing enough. So as long as I'm doing help, you're in it, man. When you know in your heart, when you're when when you're prompted, you know and to do it and into into act. And that's that's what this is about. And for me and I think that that's what that's what touches the heart of God to is taking care of those who I mean, that's that's the call. That is everybody's called. That's always say every everybody. Not everybody's called to do adopt kids or do things, but everybody's called to care that you don't get out of that. I'm gonna I don't want to keep you too much longer. I would want to go over a few things here, um and they'll just brag on you for a second, so you don't have to make a noise if you don't want. You can squill or something if you want. But just so can people people can understand this. And by the way, tickets are available, just go to Chris Tomlin dot com. But whenever you just look at data and data doesn't have a bias, and sometimes for me I'm that that stinks. Sometimes it's great. But you're one of the only four artists to ever receive the Sound Exchange of Digital Radio Award over one billion digital radio streams. Now, that's not one of four Christian artists. That's justin timber Light, Garth Brooks, you and Pitbull, who internationally, I mean even just here he's massive, but internationally, you're one of the four that has that that is the influence, the power. Um I did a show Garth's. It's a crazy story. I have friends that don't listen to country music at all, don't know how big Garth is. They don't understand how big Garth is. And I said, hey, Garth, I was talking to one of them. I said, I'm not gonna be able to do this. Garth has asked me to come open a show for him. Uh, this is last year, and they're like, what what venue are you playing? I was like, I know, it's a stadium. They're like huh. I was like, yeah, no, Garth, He's it's a hundred thousand people and we're gonna be the act right before Garth. He's asked me to come out and do to open for him, and they're like, wait, okay, that's cool, you're opening Forgoth but a hundred thousand people will go to Garth. I'm like, no, no, you don't understand. He can do to three nights. You can do but unbelievable. But that's but I'm I'm bragging on you at the same time because there are four people and you're him. Well, yeah, I'm not Garth any but I think what that speaks to me, you know when I say that, which we need to put that tour together to relate Garth, pit Bull and myself, but I'd be an amazing night. Um. But what that speaks to me is how massive the church is. And I and I'm not trying to deflect, but I'm honestly saying that because there are a lot of people. I'm gonna undeflect just one second. The fifth person who gets that is gonna be like, oh, justin Garth, people who are you? But there's a lot of people in the church did make great music and you're the one. He's in that list. But I say it that, yeah, you can be humble, and I'll be the reverse humble for you. Just take it. You're awesome, believe it there, You're awesome, and you can keep deflecting, but it's I'm not. I'm honestly, I just want to speak to that because I think sometimes, you know, just realized man that globally the church is so massive, and those those songs find their way, you know, an incredible way. Okay, guess I knocking. Okay, Um, the de Luxe album, at the Christmas the de Luxe version the Christmas album? What's de Luxe about? New songs? Obviously, but why did you feel to go back and add to this and not do a whole new project. Well, I just had some songs left over, you know, and I wanted I was like they weren't exactly right at the time, and I was like, oh, this would be great. And then um An Wilson, who's amazing new girl in our world. Um she's this nineteen year old phenom' just like amazing singer. She was saying she did one of the songs with me, and I was like, I want to get that, want to put that when people to hear that, and so yeah, that's I love making this my third Christmas album. I love making Christmas music. It's like, for me, it's weird, man, it's my favorite songs, right of songs, of the Christmas songs. I don't know why you're talking about just writing about one thing. You got one subject and for you know, for the birth of Jesus, and like, I don't know, I just find it so fun and I just love these songs. It's gonna be a very quick questions because again we're gonna get you out of here. But I could do three hours with you. I'm just a massive fan, um, so you don't have to answer these long at all. But last time you said a bad word, it's funny, man, because I was. I just gosh, it's probably I don't know, maybe a couple of days ago. But I don't say a lot. I don't. It doesn't and I don't and it's not because it's just just doesn't come out of me. These guys. I was playing that I love playing golf. Do you like playing golf? I actually love to play golf. Yeah, I got did you see what I have when? Yeah? And I love I love the game. I love the game. Are you good? Uh? Eight? Two? Oh? Yeah? Better than I am, so but I just was I could not play. I mean, I just I don't know what. It's just one of those days. And these guys are like, they're like, you did not say a cuss work the whole day, the whole day, and they were they were just so blown away by that. And I wasn't trying not to. I just like, it's just it's just not part of mine. It's not part of my language. I'm and I got people who do it no problem, and we're friends all the time. And what I don't like is when people say something and then they think that's gonna offend me something that's that's that just eats. I was like, bro, come on, dude, I'm a dude, like say a carsewords like four or five years at all because I don't want to think and when I'm writing, because I to me honestly, Chris, it's a sound that comes out if you feel it's an action, but it's just a sound that if you drive or if you fly four hours one direction, that sound doesn't even mean the same thing. So it is it's just blah blah blah. That could be. It's just a sound, right, Yeah, So but I don't want to write and have to stand up. I don't want to have to think in curse words. Yeah, so I just eliminated it. That's amazing. I've just never had it's never been a thinking of me. Yeah. I used to like it, though you did. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun actually. Okay, okay, okay, um that was one question. Um do you ever want to when you're playing show, I don't know, just play Merle Haggard's song. Yes, yes, it just doesn't work. I think the people that have come they didn't come for that, and they don't it's not what they want. A disguise and you just play. You just go out to one of these places in town and play a set up. I have not secular, I have not, but I man, I love playing those songs so much. Favorite Two final questions, Favorite artists now that you'll listen to that is not in your same space. So it could be it could be country, it could be pop. Who do you if it's like I'm just gonna hang out the house and relax and play some music while I'm cooking or something. What artists do you go to? Mine? I love John Mayer Mayor talks to me. He's basically my agent rights in my my voice, Who do you? Who do you love? I love cold Play? Man me too. I just loved me. I loved him. I love cold Play and then I and then my weird kick is John Denver. I love John Denver too. Get I get offended for four John Denver. Yeah, people at retro, people who would say he wasn't country. I just love his There's something that feels good to listen to the songs somebody. I like this guy. Yeah, Coldplay for sure, best concert ever been to in my life. Final question, don't have to answer if you don't want to. Your kids Can they listen to the pop sessition? Yes, right, and they can't. I mean they don't, mean they don't, but but I mean it's no different. I mean, listen, it's it's in canto, it's vivo, it's all Disney, okay. That's also that also be pop Okay, So they can listen to popular music. It's not only yeah, alright, we're just gonna go. But when they start bringing on the um, they're also young, so I don't have to worry about that. But when they started bringing on some of the stuff, that's out there. That then then I have no problem saying that we're not gonna listen. That's the dad want. I just want to protect them is I don't want I don't want that in there getting in their heart. I'm gonna tell you, Chris, I'm you're just the coolest man. Man, You're just the coolest. You're You're so kind. I was so nervous coming you know, I'm serious, I'm not making it because I was like, man, this is stop. You're like a you're the king of this thing. Well we can have mutual respect, but you're You're the coolest. And so I really I appreciate the fact that we still made this happen and that you still made this happen. And I apologize. I just blew my voice and I didn't want to waste that. I remember telling Mike I don't want to go into this thirty percent because I don't. I owe it to him to be here and be and so thank you for allowing me to do that. Boy, I'm so glad we made this work. We should play golf, yes, um, and it's cold now, which kind of stinks, But I have a have a simulator that is amazing. How far away do you live from my house? I live thirty minutes. I'm in Franklin minutes. Well, when you're in town, we're gonna play come up to Sam, especially in the winter because I can't play golf anywhere. I'll just get your number from Mike or whomever has it, and I would love to do that. I've never said that to anybody, but like, I like you as a person. That's it's cool. You're like a dude. Thank you man. I appreciate that that that's that's the highest thing you could say. I can say higher, but I'm gonna say I'm gonna stay there. No, that's for me. That's awesome. Some people treat you weird because but I don't want to keep this last thing. I'm gonna as um. I've never had drink of alcohol because my parents. I don't have a problem people drinking alcohol have at it buddy. For me. I can't their addicts. They died of addictions, so I have to stay away. And I've never had one drink. But people act weird around me because they're like, oh, there's there's mr no drink. But I don't want people to know. I'll fake it sometimes like I'm drinking because it's not about that to me. Do people go oh, as Chris tom One the Christian singer, we gotta really be on our piece and cues, Yes, exactly. That's what I can't stand, you know. And I and I and I have one of my good friends and you'll you know where I'm going with this is Tim Tebow, who we're been buddies for since he played at Florida, and we'll be together and I'll watch that happen with him. Somebody he's I mean, he's as dude as you get. I mean, you know, and somebody will say something m F this or whatever, and he's just and they're like, I'm sorry, and he's like, bro, stop like I'm a normal I'm a human dude. So yes, I get that and it. But the fathers, hey, come me, dang all right, Chris, thank you. What does a wildly successful artist do on a Wednesday afternoon. Let's pick up his kids from school. That's why you need to go sitting out on the curb right now, daddy. All right, you guys at Chris Tomlin, go to the show. Go to Chris Tomlin dot com and the Deluxe Christmas, it's out, it's there, Chris, thank you, Yeah, buddy,