The Breakfast Club: Parental Influence & Societal Roles w/ Molly McAleer

<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster
<v Speaker 1>movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and
<v Speaker 1>I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.
<v Speaker 2>Ben Stover, individual therapist, Hannah Espinozo, marriage and family therapists.
<v Speaker 1>We're all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists
<v Speaker 1>who practice out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed
<v Speaker 1>mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes
<v Speaker 1>and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture and
<v Speaker 1>all forms.
<v Speaker 3>Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,
<v Speaker 3>we aren't your therapist.
<v Speaker 2>If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find
<v Speaker 2>a local mental health provider.
<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, welcome back to school. I guess we do
<v Speaker 1>happen to be doing this back to schoolish episode when
<v Speaker 1>the school is in back in session here in Chicago
<v Speaker 1>where we're from, and we have a foreign exchange student
<v Speaker 1>with us today. Molly, McLear, Molly, who are you?
<v Speaker 2>Hey? Oh?
<v Speaker 4>So sorry?
<v Speaker 5>Wait, go ahead, do my intro redo it? I didn't know,
<v Speaker 5>I didn't sorry, go ahead.
<v Speaker 3>No, you're okay.
<v Speaker 1>So we're joined today by our own foreign exchange student
<v Speaker 1>all the way from Los Angeles. Molly McLear is a writer.
<v Speaker 1>She's also a podcast host of two amazing podcasts, Mother
<v Speaker 1>May I Sleep with Podcasts, which is a lifetime movie podcast,
<v Speaker 1>and trend Lightly, which is a weekly pop culture podcast.
<v Speaker 1>And I listened to both and I highly recommend. So
<v Speaker 1>I know, Mom, if you want to say hey to everybody.
<v Speaker 5>Hi, thank you for having me. I'm very excited. I'm
<v Speaker 5>a new fan of yours. But we've had this on
<v Speaker 5>the books for quite some time, so I just hope
<v Speaker 5>I can live up to the legend that is the
<v Speaker 5>never Been Kissed episode.
<v Speaker 4>It's fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad you like this so much.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you.
<v Speaker 1>Back in session. So today we're going to be talking
<v Speaker 1>about the Breakfast Club, iconic John Hughes movie from NXETE
<v Speaker 1>eighty four. It is a real what do they call them,
<v Speaker 1>bottle episode kind of movies, very much like a play
<v Speaker 1>where it's about five kids who are in Saturday detention,
<v Speaker 1>which was nine hours seven am is a crazy early
<v Speaker 1>start for a full day detention. And so we have Bender, Claire, Andrew,
<v Speaker 1>Brian and Allison. We are going to be talking about
<v Speaker 1>each character individually and we're being touching upon probably quite
<v Speaker 1>a few themes, like the parental influence on our sense
<v Speaker 1>of self, societal roles, figuring out who you are as
<v Speaker 1>a teenager, stereotypes, probably a few diagnoses here and there,
<v Speaker 1>as they clearly see in the movie. And so basically
<v Speaker 1>five kids in a room all day on a Saturday,
<v Speaker 1>coming together to talk. Very group therapy ask in a
<v Speaker 1>lot of ways as well.
<v Speaker 3>Very encounter group.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, so I figured we would start with oddly
<v Speaker 1>my favorite care arter, which I guess I could talk
<v Speaker 1>to my therapist about. John Bender. He's like. Actually watching
<v Speaker 1>this movie this time around, I was surprised how much
<v Speaker 1>he felt like the carrier of a lot of the dialogue,
<v Speaker 1>Like he's really got so much of the lines and
<v Speaker 1>the action and so much of the movie kind of
<v Speaker 1>circles around him, which I didn't quite remember when I
<v Speaker 1>watched it when I was younger. This is also a
<v Speaker 1>movie that I watched a lot when it was on
<v Speaker 1>TBS and TNT, and so I actually this is the
<v Speaker 1>first time I've watched the non TV rated version.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, this is a definite R rated movie. It's
<v Speaker 3>it's real different than what was on TBS, isn't it yes,
<v Speaker 3>completely different.
<v Speaker 2>Like I was, I didn't realize so many things. I
<v Speaker 2>can't believe. It felt like a completely different film.
<v Speaker 1>So John Bender, he's introduced. He's the only kid that
<v Speaker 1>doesn't get dropped off to school by his parents, which
<v Speaker 1>was a really nice touch in just the onset of
<v Speaker 1>this character, that he's someone that is totally taking care
<v Speaker 1>of himself in a lot of ways. And what did
<v Speaker 1>you guys all notice right away about John Bender just
<v Speaker 1>presentation wise.
<v Speaker 5>Well, I just want to say I think that Bender
<v Speaker 5>might be the lead character of this film. And I
<v Speaker 5>noticed that he obviously carries himself with a lot of
<v Speaker 5>confidence and what now looks like a honed personal style,
<v Speaker 5>but at the time I think was maybe trying to
<v Speaker 5>convey that there was something sort of ramshackle and uncool
<v Speaker 5>about him, maybe like you'd be wearing a single glove
<v Speaker 5>that was left in the mud room because he didn't
<v Speaker 5>have a set sort of thing. But yeah, I just
<v Speaker 5>I want to say, I think he's the main character,
<v Speaker 5>and I think he is exceedingly cool for sure.
<v Speaker 3>Then yeah, I mean I noticed right away that he
<v Speaker 3>was walking up I'm sure that was a deliberate, planned
<v Speaker 3>shot to show him kind of trudging up confidently, but
<v Speaker 3>also wearing a coat that is clearly too big for
<v Speaker 3>him and clothes that look sloppy and kind of wild,
<v Speaker 3>and that his hair is a little bit long and
<v Speaker 3>shaggier than everybody else's and he's bigger than everybody else.
<v Speaker 3>I think they made quite a few things clear about
<v Speaker 3>Bender trudging immediately clear as everyone else is getting dropped off.
<v Speaker 3>And I think did they show him right after Allison
<v Speaker 3>got out of the backseat of her car. Is he
<v Speaker 3>like walking up kind of around the front of that car.
<v Speaker 3>Is that gets dropped off?
<v Speaker 1>I can't remember, but that does sound right. That does
<v Speaker 1>sound right.
<v Speaker 4>I don't He's the last person there, which makes sense.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I actually I almost think that in some ways,
<v Speaker 5>maybe the easier path to follow is like how people
<v Speaker 5>arrived to therapy that day, because everything is done with
<v Speaker 5>like some sort of intention. How we meet these characters,
<v Speaker 5>and a lot of it is their sort of their timeliness,
<v Speaker 5>et cetera. All presents and who they are you see
<v Speaker 5>them physically.
<v Speaker 1>No, it's interesting, Yeah, it's interesting that Bender even gets
<v Speaker 1>there on time. He feels like he would roll up
<v Speaker 1>a little late. He also feels like he'd be a
<v Speaker 1>what we'd call affectionately a super senior, someone who has
<v Speaker 1>is like a fifth year senior, because he just looked like,
<v Speaker 1>I know this is very much movies, but he looks
<v Speaker 1>so much older age wist five, even though he was
<v Speaker 1>only twenty four the actor when he filmed it, which
<v Speaker 1>kind of blew my mind.
<v Speaker 5>I mean, oh sorry, I was just gonna say, maybe
<v Speaker 5>I'm delusional, but I think I look younger than all
<v Speaker 5>of these people as I was watching this.
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that's true for the eighties right now,
<v Speaker 2>everybody looks thirty five and like they have a full
<v Speaker 2>mortgage when they are in high school.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he looked like a real big grown adult to me.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah yeah. And I mean you go back and
<v Speaker 3>like there's somebody who put together a meme of the
<v Speaker 3>Cheers actors and put their ages on, and I was like,
<v Speaker 3>just no, get out of here, because they were all
<v Speaker 3>like thirty two and they looked like perpetually forty eight.
<v Speaker 2>In terms of bender, what I felt like I noticed
<v Speaker 2>right away is he's probably getting hurt at home based
<v Speaker 2>on his cockiness, based on his I'm also surprised that
<v Speaker 2>he showed up because he also feels like a kid
<v Speaker 2>who wouldn't even come to detention, Like why show him
<v Speaker 2>to detention?
<v Speaker 1>Well, because it's probably better than being.
<v Speaker 2>At home exactly right, exactly, which is also why it's
<v Speaker 2>interesting that he shows up and he is on time
<v Speaker 2>and he is there just in general.
<v Speaker 1>And that's what I noticed right away.
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like with all of his posturing and
<v Speaker 2>all of his different like the way that he's trying
<v Speaker 2>to influence the dynamic so that he can have some
<v Speaker 2>kind of like say or like some kind of control
<v Speaker 2>or some kind of like one up on everybody else,
<v Speaker 2>which makes a lot of sense when if your experience
<v Speaker 2>is getting the shit beat out of you or getting
<v Speaker 2>screened at or yelled at or getting put in your
<v Speaker 2>place all the time, that for a teenager would make
<v Speaker 2>a lot of sense that that's how he would kind
<v Speaker 2>of come off. So I felt like I also felt
<v Speaker 2>more like his clothes looked really well used, like he's
<v Speaker 2>had him for a long time, like maybe they've like
<v Speaker 2>maybe he hasn't, And also like maybe part of the
<v Speaker 2>reason why they don't fit is because they're old clothes,
<v Speaker 2>like he's not because he's not getting taken care.
<v Speaker 1>Of, yeah, like hand me downs or like goodwill clothes
<v Speaker 1>or like things that you get at like garage sales
<v Speaker 1>or stuff like that. And I and also all the
<v Speaker 1>layers he's wearing. I think talking about his clothes is
<v Speaker 1>interesting you bringing that up, Molly, because I think also
<v Speaker 1>all the layers he wears is probably because he has
<v Speaker 1>to walk everywhere. Yeah, and trying to make that look
<v Speaker 1>like a look. I think so much of Bender is
<v Speaker 1>trying to take his circumstances and act like it's a choice.
<v Speaker 1>He's making so many kids that I work with who
<v Speaker 1>are having a hard time and who are like quote
<v Speaker 1>unquote behavior problems as a way to kind of like
<v Speaker 1>you were saying, Hannah, as a way to feel more
<v Speaker 1>in control of all these out of control elements, they
<v Speaker 1>will adopt a persona to make it seem like, Oh,
<v Speaker 1>I want to look like this, and I want to
<v Speaker 1>act like this, and I like being in trouble and
<v Speaker 1>I like starting fights, and I don't give a shit
<v Speaker 1>if you think I'm an idiot, because I don't care
<v Speaker 1>if I'm smart. Like all of the posturing you were
<v Speaker 1>saying that he does with like the Moliere comment and
<v Speaker 1>really putting down everybody else in the room is his
<v Speaker 1>way of pretending that he doesn't care that he isn't
<v Speaker 1>a jock, or that he isn't well loved at home
<v Speaker 1>or spoiled or everything that the other kids have that
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't to make it seem like a choice he's
<v Speaker 1>making feels so much more obviously like empowering than the
<v Speaker 1>actual truth, which is how much of his life is
<v Speaker 1>genuinely like so sad and miserable, and how so much
<v Speaker 1>of the markings of him are due to being abused
<v Speaker 1>and not taken care.
<v Speaker 3>Of, horribly abused and burned with a cigar. And you
<v Speaker 3>see none of his clothes fit. Yeah, the jackets rolled up,
<v Speaker 3>the boots and the pants are clearly oversized. And I
<v Speaker 3>don't know if the bandana around the boot was a
<v Speaker 3>style choice. We didn't get enough shots of it, if
<v Speaker 3>that was just a thing that you know, ten years
<v Speaker 3>too young to understand, or if that was like he
<v Speaker 3>just didn't have laces and he had to make do.
<v Speaker 5>And Kunky Brewster and I will say, for all the
<v Speaker 5>things we've said about John Bender as a general vibe
<v Speaker 5>and a look so far, and apologies for interrupting, Ben,
<v Speaker 5>I just got so excited. I do hope that John
<v Speaker 5>Bender feels empowered wherever he is today, knowing that his
<v Speaker 5>style in this movie is the most evergreen and the
<v Speaker 5>one that this day, I would shank someone at the.
<v Speaker 4>Goodwill to get that coat that he is wearing in
<v Speaker 4>the intro.
<v Speaker 5>He probably likes to Oh my god, there's nothing about
<v Speaker 5>his outfit that I really wouldn't try so hard to
<v Speaker 5>get and have that. That's so my look as a
<v Speaker 5>adult woman. And I really do think that he's the
<v Speaker 5>only one in this movie. While so many looks are classic,
<v Speaker 5>he's the only one whose style anyone is still chasing.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I think he's like, absolutely the template of
<v Speaker 3>nineties grunge. I think every band that was like for
<v Speaker 3>that whole look was trying to copy John Bender. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>Jeral did That's come back.
<v Speaker 1>Jared Leto wouldn't exist as he currently does if it
<v Speaker 1>wasn't for this look on John Bender in the Breakfast Club.
<v Speaker 5>Because there Belano, Yes, there be no Jordan, and you're
<v Speaker 5>so right. Yeah, No, he really is the archetype for
<v Speaker 5>that guy. I mean, I don't know Jordan at least
<v Speaker 5>had the kindness to be polite in class. I mean Bender,
<v Speaker 5>really it's rough when he gets in an environment.
<v Speaker 1>I'm also curious if he has any sort of like
<v Speaker 1>learning disabilities, because there does seem to be like, I
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I always I got the sense maybe I'm
<v Speaker 1>just reading too much like that his like reading comprehension
<v Speaker 1>was kind of poor. But I think also something to
<v Speaker 1>be aware of is when you grew up in a
<v Speaker 1>traumatizing household, you are potentially getting head injuries on a
<v Speaker 1>regular basis, which affects your brain. Obviously.
<v Speaker 5>I also do want to say though here there's the
<v Speaker 5>thing is that I am out of my weight class
<v Speaker 5>in terms of being able to hold a candle to
<v Speaker 5>the many things that you guys will illuminate throughout this
<v Speaker 5>entire movie. I'm sure like you got guys are just
<v Speaker 5>really so fun to listen to and honestly a little scary.
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna be real with you. I had some real woman,
<v Speaker 5>not just because I was literally cleaning my bathroom as
<v Speaker 5>I was listening to Pocket. I had some real woman
<v Speaker 5>in the mirror moments when I was listening to You're
<v Speaker 5>Never Been Kissed episode where I was like, don't look
<v Speaker 5>in the mirror right now, like just stare at the
<v Speaker 5>bottle of four oh nine and keep spraying bitch because
<v Speaker 5>they are talking about you.
<v Speaker 3>So associate, dissociate more, dissociate more.
<v Speaker 5>Literally, it's not even about I'm just trying to get
<v Speaker 5>the cat's letterbox clean and clean the whole little half
<v Speaker 5>bath down so she has a whole space. But I
<v Speaker 5>I was I was gonna say that I do.
<v Speaker 4>I am riddled with learning disabilities.
<v Speaker 5>And I was thinking about that a lot as I
<v Speaker 5>was watching the movie, Like, I'm definitely neurotypical, Like I
<v Speaker 5>don't feel like I need to announce my diagnoses, but.
<v Speaker 4>I will ADHD for sure.
<v Speaker 5>I was diagnosed as dyslexic, but and I feel as
<v Speaker 5>though I'm dyslexic based on my understanding of dyslexia. But like,
<v Speaker 5>and not just in a way that it's like, oh,
<v Speaker 5>my TikTok algorithm is telling me I'm on the spectrum.
<v Speaker 5>I mean like literally my commenters will be like, Molly,
<v Speaker 5>You're on the spectrum.
<v Speaker 4>Like, and I don't mean that in a way that I.
<v Speaker 5>Think is negative. I think that would actually explain a
<v Speaker 5>lot and that I do relate to Bender in some
<v Speaker 5>ways in that sort of having to build up an
<v Speaker 5>exterior because I had to do kind of what I
<v Speaker 5>think Bender does a little bit what you're suggesting. I
<v Speaker 5>had to do that when I was like transitioning to Okay,
<v Speaker 5>I'm Molly, the girl who's tried so hard to be
<v Speaker 5>a good student and is very afraid of bad behavior,
<v Speaker 5>but I want to be I want to work in comedy,
<v Speaker 5>and so I had to like really build up a
<v Speaker 5>veneer in almost a false persona of like coolness that
<v Speaker 5>I've realized now might have just been heavily masking. And
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, oh, like all the times people said I
<v Speaker 5>was cool and I didn't, I was like, oh, that's
<v Speaker 5>nice that they think that, Like, maybe I really did
<v Speaker 5>put on a false veneer without even realizing where people
<v Speaker 5>don't even know how to read it except for oh,
<v Speaker 5>maybe that's cool at this time, though, I don't think
<v Speaker 5>you were allowed to be an individual so much in
<v Speaker 5>this part of Illinois, so oh, for sure, there's no
<v Speaker 5>sense of that.
<v Speaker 1>No. John Bender was probably having to find his little
<v Speaker 1>small freak show metal head areas to kind of really
<v Speaker 1>wild out in. But I know something you had brought up, Ben,
<v Speaker 1>like in our chap before we recorded, was the idea
<v Speaker 1>of I think you said like social armor, armer roll armor,
<v Speaker 1>and how that's what you were just saying, Mom made
<v Speaker 1>me think of that. And also how trying to act
<v Speaker 1>like like this is my persona, this is masking to
<v Speaker 1>mask like my horrible family life, to mask my possible
<v Speaker 1>learning stuff. Because also if you have active trauma chronically
<v Speaker 1>at home, your ability to learn is shit in a
<v Speaker 1>lot of ways. Like some kids can pull it off,
<v Speaker 1>and for some kids you're so distracted all the time
<v Speaker 1>by your life outside of school that you can't focus
<v Speaker 1>and you can't do well. And how in the eighties especially,
<v Speaker 1>and before the eighties even the nineties too, kids like
<v Speaker 1>Bender weren't being thought of for like adhd or for
<v Speaker 1>like that he's having trouble at home or focusing or
<v Speaker 1>something like that. He would just be considered maybe dumb
<v Speaker 1>and a problem kidd Claes, Yeah, put in like special
<v Speaker 1>ed as they would have said, and really been neglected
<v Speaker 1>in that space as well.
<v Speaker 3>I think that's all likely, and it's very true that
<v Speaker 3>people develop differently neurocognitively when they're under distress. And Molly,
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate you being willing to share what you've had
<v Speaker 3>to go through and recognizing that because it's helpful to
<v Speaker 3>people to hear that real people who have made something
<v Speaker 3>of themselves have these things and live with them and
<v Speaker 3>can see themselves in these characters that have a history too,
<v Speaker 3>because all of us do. As a point of the film,
<v Speaker 3>we all have a history and it affects us, It
<v Speaker 3>shapes us, It makes us interact with our surroundings differently.
<v Speaker 3>And I think the comments you're making about John are
<v Speaker 3>really on point, Brittany, And I think the only thing
<v Speaker 3>that I want to add to it is that John
<v Speaker 3>isn't afraid of anybody or anything there because none of
<v Speaker 3>them are as scary as his dad.
<v Speaker 2>Yep.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, you're going to beat the shit out of me.
<v Speaker 1>I've been training to get this shit kicked out of
<v Speaker 1>me my whole life. I think what is interesting, though,
<v Speaker 1>is the only time he does seem scared is when
<v Speaker 1>he's cornered in when he's locked basically in solitary confinement
<v Speaker 1>by the principle. In that, I guess what kind of
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what kind of yes, prie closet and
<v Speaker 1>the principal, who's an asshole and should be put in
<v Speaker 1>prison with public, yeah, starts berating him and then starts
<v Speaker 1>to goad him into a fight, and then he flinches
<v Speaker 1>when the teacher principle like fake swings at him, and
<v Speaker 1>I do think that is the time in the movie
<v Speaker 1>where we see Bender probably having a trauma reaction, like
<v Speaker 1>being in an enclosed space with an adult male who
<v Speaker 1>has power over him, like legit power over him, being ostracized.
<v Speaker 1>And it's also the only time when he really isn't
<v Speaker 1>perf he doesn't have an audience, and so I think
<v Speaker 1>that is where we see probably the truest presentation of
<v Speaker 1>what Bender is like at home, and that I think
<v Speaker 1>that's a spot on what you say, Ben, because that's
<v Speaker 1>the only time we really see him seeming meek and
<v Speaker 1>scared is in that environment because he is no one
<v Speaker 1>to perform for, and he probably feels really trapped. And
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how it isn't I don't know, so
<v Speaker 1>much of his dynamic with that principle feels like he's
<v Speaker 1>recreating his dynamic with his father, and it's so upsetting.
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it was horrible. I was so angry at that.
<v Speaker 3>I think Judd Nelson's acting was terrific in that scene,
<v Speaker 3>as watching his eyes go so wide, his nostrils flaring,
<v Speaker 3>his heart rate was clearly up and blood pressure up
<v Speaker 3>all of the things that you would expect to see
<v Speaker 3>in someone that is starting to actively dissociate into a part,
<v Speaker 3>and it wasn't the part that he'd been demonstrating the
<v Speaker 3>whole time, where he was putting on that role armor
<v Speaker 3>of I'm going to be the class clown, the antagonist.
<v Speaker 3>You can't touch me. I'm so edgy that I'm going
<v Speaker 3>to unnerve all of you so bad and knock you
<v Speaker 3>off your game and show you all the things you
<v Speaker 3>think matter don't matter to me at all. But the
<v Speaker 3>principle called him on his shit, but did it in
<v Speaker 3>the most cruel way possible by isolating him, cornering him,
<v Speaker 3>and causing a mixture of a freeze, and in a
<v Speaker 3>peace response, he had to surrender. He had to surrender,
<v Speaker 3>and he did not want to, and he didn't ultimately
<v Speaker 3>after he got out of that spot where he was
<v Speaker 3>clearly dangerous. But the principle activated all of his trauma
<v Speaker 3>of being likely put in a similar situation and actually
<v Speaker 3>beaten to the point that he had to freeze and
<v Speaker 3>stop himself from even defending himself. Because that mechanism in
<v Speaker 3>our brain exists for when we passively read the situation,
<v Speaker 3>they're subconsciously read the situation and see I cannot win.
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't matter what I do, I cannot win. And
<v Speaker 3>therefore my options are comply or shut up and freeze,
<v Speaker 3>because anything I do will make it worse. And anybody
<v Speaker 3>that thinks that they would do X, Y or Z
<v Speaker 3>in a situation and behave differently isn't in that situation
<v Speaker 3>and hasn't been physically overpowered because there is something inside
<v Speaker 3>of all of us that tells us you will lose.
<v Speaker 3>Imagine a dude that's six foot six, built like a
<v Speaker 3>brick shit house, steps out of whatever car you've been
<v Speaker 3>honking at and lets you know that he's about to
<v Speaker 3>fuck your world up. If you say one more thing,
<v Speaker 3>you're going to shut up.
<v Speaker 1>This principle does make thirty one thousand dollars a year,
<v Speaker 1>so you should respect him.
<v Speaker 5>I literally just look this up because I could not
<v Speaker 5>move off that number, honey, And like I literally am
<v Speaker 5>not trying to be a capricorn, but I could not
<v Speaker 5>move off the number. So it is ninety three thousand,
<v Speaker 5>eight hundred and forty seven dollars and thirty five cents
<v Speaker 5>today for the same for a thirty one K salary,
<v Speaker 5>and that area of Illinois is incredibly pricey, but the
<v Speaker 5>idea that he was already a homeowner at that salary. Honestly,
<v Speaker 5>if I was making ninety three thousand dollars a year
<v Speaker 5>and I was him, I'd still be driving uber at night,
<v Speaker 5>and you can't do that when you're the school principal.
<v Speaker 4>I'd be wanting to hit that hundred k.
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's probably why he's working Saturday detention. Oh, probably
<v Speaker 1>making over time.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's why he wants to keep Bender there. He's
<v Speaker 5>a true capitalist freak. He doesn't care about Bender much
<v Speaker 5>like sadly so many adults in Bender's life.
<v Speaker 4>It's he's exploiting.
<v Speaker 3>Him, right, I mean, and I loved that scene that
<v Speaker 3>happened after that with the principal and Carl the custodian,
<v Speaker 3>where it's so effective a character Karl was. When Karl
<v Speaker 3>Or caught him digging through the files, the principle was saying, like,
<v Speaker 3>it just discussed me that these kids are going to
<v Speaker 3>be the one taking over our country blah blah blah
<v Speaker 3>boom or speak and then.
<v Speaker 5>Taking care of me someday. Right, Oh, you're going to
<v Speaker 5>be taking care of me someday.
<v Speaker 3>And he said, don't count on it.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I do. He was the Carl is like kind
<v Speaker 4>of really the star of the movie.
<v Speaker 1>I agree, He's like the wise sage that I feel
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of times plays custodians.
<v Speaker 4>I've called two people a star of the movie so far.
<v Speaker 5>But I mean that I'm blocking in my stars of
<v Speaker 5>the movie, because that's.
<v Speaker 1>It blocking in now. Yeah, yeah, and I think, I guess.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I plan to talk about Bender during treatment.
<v Speaker 1>But one thing I do want to touch upon here that's.
<v Speaker 3>A Bengo mark for those of you that are catching. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>tracking is.
<v Speaker 1>The way that that principle interacts with Bender is the
<v Speaker 1>worst possible way you can engage with a kid like Bender,
<v Speaker 1>because one, why are you power struggling with a teenager?
<v Speaker 1>You look like a fucking idiot. The amount and it's
<v Speaker 1>easy to I mean, it's not hard to do. I
<v Speaker 1>worked with little kids with behavior problems, and the amount
<v Speaker 1>of times that I would have to stop and be like, Brittany,
<v Speaker 1>are you about to continue arguing, like doing a back
<v Speaker 1>and forth with a nine year old who has like
<v Speaker 1>a severe mental health problem, like grow up, shut up,
<v Speaker 1>and like take a breather from like just the way
<v Speaker 1>that he allows Bender to get his goat is so
<v Speaker 1>textbooks immature, and I think continues to reiterate for kids
<v Speaker 1>like Bender, like what, you're not showing him any other
<v Speaker 1>way to be like this idea that adults will put
<v Speaker 1>on kids and adolescents that they should know how to
<v Speaker 1>behave like people once they like exit the womb, and
<v Speaker 1>it's like, no, kids and teenagers are being shown by
<v Speaker 1>the adults in their life how to engage with the
<v Speaker 1>world and how to try other people. So when you
<v Speaker 1>are acting exactly like him, what other option are you
<v Speaker 1>sure you're not showing him modeling anything different in terms
<v Speaker 1>of how to deal with someone who pisses you off,
<v Speaker 1>who upsets you, who annoys you, and also with a
<v Speaker 1>kid like Bender, that he's already written himself off in
<v Speaker 1>the sense of he's not going to be a kid
<v Speaker 1>that gets attention and accolades, like positive attention and accolades
<v Speaker 1>and success in this very specific way. So he's just
<v Speaker 1>going to throw himself into this persona we've been talking about,
<v Speaker 1>and so there's no hope in him, and so he's
<v Speaker 1>going to ride the power struggle wave as far as
<v Speaker 1>I mean that whole like back and forth with giving
<v Speaker 1>him like eight weeks of Saturday detentions is so stupid,
<v Speaker 1>and obviously the punishment is not correcting his behavior, so
<v Speaker 1>it's also pointless. And why wouldn't he just keep doing that?
<v Speaker 1>He is nothing else going on. He has no hope
<v Speaker 1>for something to turn around. And the way that the
<v Speaker 1>principal confirms that in the supply closet, what would motivate
<v Speaker 1>a kid like Bender to change nothing? And what's going
<v Speaker 1>to give him the confidence to change nothing? Is just
<v Speaker 1>piece of shit? He's telling you. You're telling me he's
<v Speaker 1>a piece.
<v Speaker 2>Of shit and threatening you're threatening him with physical harm, Like, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>what are.
<v Speaker 1>You showing him about the world other than it's full
<v Speaker 1>of violent adults?
<v Speaker 5>Like the real world experience is the only thing that
<v Speaker 5>you get to enjoy when you're sort of othered right
<v Speaker 5>in high school. And I think that he's sort of
<v Speaker 5>comfortably fallen into this role that just makes sense for him,
<v Speaker 5>or that's passive or easy to be in b because
<v Speaker 5>he can't show up full blown to any other area
<v Speaker 5>of his life he does. He's not financially well off,
<v Speaker 5>he's not he's the support system at home, et cetera,
<v Speaker 5>et cetera. But yeah, I have a like can I
<v Speaker 5>ask a fan, oh you guys okay? So like and
<v Speaker 5>now in today's like sort of pop psychology world with
<v Speaker 5>some with that scene with Bender and the principle.
<v Speaker 4>In the supply closet.
<v Speaker 5>I think everyone now would look at a teacher wanting
<v Speaker 5>to go into a closet with a student and confront
<v Speaker 5>him like a man. You look at that like as
<v Speaker 5>an idea, and it's like, oh, this guy has like
<v Speaker 5>some weird sexual deviant behavior. Who wants to do that
<v Speaker 5>to a high school student? Like Jesus christ Man, they're
<v Speaker 5>just high school students. But I'm wondering, like if you
<v Speaker 5>can kind of hone in on that thing of like
<v Speaker 5>we're at the time, I feel like this was a
<v Speaker 5>very common theme of a guy that like wanted to
<v Speaker 5>beat up a younger man or suppress him Smith. I
<v Speaker 5>feel like, what was if you were to do reverse
<v Speaker 5>inflation where now we start out at euro pedophile, What
<v Speaker 5>do you think they would have called him back in
<v Speaker 5>the day, like as hard as diagnosis?
<v Speaker 4>Hard ass? What drives that?
<v Speaker 3>I think you mean, you're already already on it that
<v Speaker 3>it's somebody that he's feeling unsatisfied in his life and
<v Speaker 3>threatened by the freedom of spirit that Bender has. That
<v Speaker 3>the dialogue with Carl showed that he'd clearly lost the
<v Speaker 3>luster and enjoyment of life and realized that whatever he
<v Speaker 3>thought his life was going to be, it isn't. It's
<v Speaker 3>become formulaic and he's trapped. So he's resentfully trying to
<v Speaker 3>trap other people and not let them have enjoyment he
<v Speaker 3>didn't have.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, he's like classic someone who's become a
<v Speaker 1>bully as an adult yep, in that he feels disempowered
<v Speaker 1>and feels like I think he thinks he's a loser.
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know if he would admit that he
<v Speaker 1>thinks he's a loser or that he is one. But
<v Speaker 1>you can see in those moments when he has moments
<v Speaker 1>to himself where he kind of looks like there's one
<v Speaker 1>moment where after he like yells at them. Maybe it's
<v Speaker 1>the detention eight detentions in a Row thing where he
<v Speaker 1>goes in the hallway and he kind of has this
<v Speaker 1>like eyes closed moment where he looks a little disappointed
<v Speaker 1>in himself that he went there and then he kind
<v Speaker 1>of lost control ish, But he just feels like someone
<v Speaker 1>who has to constantly assert control. There are so many
<v Speaker 1>more old school adults who have this very like toxic
<v Speaker 1>masculinity generational power shit where they're like, I have to
<v Speaker 1>get other people to submit to me, and I can't
<v Speaker 1>tolerate anything but submission because of how I get my
<v Speaker 1>feelings of ego and power and him. Well, yeah, nowadays,
<v Speaker 1>if you like took a kid in the supply closet
<v Speaker 1>with you and then there was a lot of noise
<v Speaker 1>and then you came out, that would be crazy to see.
<v Speaker 1>But at my high school they used to paddle kids
<v Speaker 1>until the late eighties early nineties. Like with paddles, I
<v Speaker 1>had a science teacher who would brag about how hard
<v Speaker 1>you could paddle kids.
<v Speaker 4>Back when the public.
<v Speaker 3>School yep, they in Illinois they allowed it. I think
<v Speaker 3>it's for one, maybe two years. The school district I
<v Speaker 3>went to it was my primary school, so third through
<v Speaker 3>fifth grade was the way my ton broke it up.
<v Speaker 3>And we had a principal that the school board allowed
<v Speaker 3>to paddle kids, and he definitely tried to intimidate us.
<v Speaker 3>There was one moment where I was in the principal's office,
<v Speaker 3>probably for fighting, and like the principal like literally took
<v Speaker 3>his paddle out and like whacked the radiator with it,
<v Speaker 3>and like tried to intimidate us. And he did use
<v Speaker 3>it on kids. I don't think he used it very often,
<v Speaker 3>but there was moments where that happened. And I think
<v Speaker 3>remembering that these people that would have been this age,
<v Speaker 3>particularly ten years before this principle I had because he
<v Speaker 3>was a bit younger, maybe forty then. But these people
<v Speaker 3>all grew up with parents that likely were in World
<v Speaker 3>War two, and World War two reached such a vaunted
<v Speaker 3>status in the cultural zeitegase that nothing anybody could ever
<v Speaker 3>do that they ever would match up to as cool
<v Speaker 3>or as significant, as important as to what these people did.
<v Speaker 3>And they never told the truth of their stories. They
<v Speaker 3>just went in the garage and got drunk as shit
<v Speaker 3>because of the horrible stuff that they saw on the
<v Speaker 3>trauma that they had that never got treated. But then
<v Speaker 3>nobody's stories could ever ever ever match their significance, because
<v Speaker 3>if their pain and the losses that they suffered loss significance,
<v Speaker 3>then they would be doing their friends who died to service,
<v Speaker 3>and they passed that on to their children aka are
<v Speaker 3>parents who struggled with going to their own wars. That
<v Speaker 3>was rejected by society, and they were met with cruelty
<v Speaker 3>and called horrible things for the horrible things that they did.
<v Speaker 3>That weren't probably a whole lot different in what happened
<v Speaker 3>in World War Two, but it's all more politically complicated,
<v Speaker 3>and then playing all that shit out on these kids
<v Speaker 3>that are trying to live a free life, free of war.
<v Speaker 3>There was no war in the eighties. The eighties was
<v Speaker 3>a peaceful time these kids.
<v Speaker 4>There war.
<v Speaker 3>No like there was the first time in a long
<v Speaker 3>time there was no war. I mean there were some conflicts,
<v Speaker 3>but none of it was full scale like Vietnam. Like
<v Speaker 3>this guy would have watched his friends go to and
<v Speaker 3>stuff and maybe did, but yeah, you see how people
<v Speaker 3>play out that shit, and I think he was there
<v Speaker 3>to serve as kind of a foil of like like
<v Speaker 3>a Carl or the principle could be different types of
<v Speaker 3>people that Bender would encounter or be later that like
<v Speaker 3>or maybe Andrew would be, I guess, but that that
<v Speaker 3>bully type that was couldn't actualize because something somebody put
<v Speaker 3>a brick on him. And now because other people are
<v Speaker 3>showing some freedom, he's going to put a brick on
<v Speaker 3>anybody showing that free spirit, so that they get their
<v Speaker 3>dreams crushed like his and be successful, median income earning
<v Speaker 3>folks that find safety through getting their spirits crushed, because
<v Speaker 3>that's what we do to care for these kids. We
<v Speaker 3>crush the individually out of them. Individually. Individually, I ouent
<v Speaker 3>I have lips that work, yes.
<v Speaker 4>But like you're so wild. I always laugh about how
<v Speaker 4>you know, the Chris Farley character, like.
<v Speaker 5>Living in a van down by the river, Like that
<v Speaker 5>character was supposed to be thirty two years old, and
<v Speaker 5>it's like it's so like, which is crazy to think
<v Speaker 5>about as a four year old woman who literally am
<v Speaker 5>like I actually would like living and like if someone
<v Speaker 5>would come and like make it all all the parts
<v Speaker 5>work and stuff like that for me. If some if
<v Speaker 5>I could hire someone full time to make sure I
<v Speaker 5>comfortably live in a van, I think I could do that.
<v Speaker 4>But the whole point of that era what I.
<v Speaker 5>Remember sort of having a friend gently point out to
<v Speaker 5>me when I was sort of marveling at that in
<v Speaker 5>more recent times, it's like Molly, back then, if you
<v Speaker 5>didn't have like a family and a house and like
<v Speaker 5>an important job where you were making a lot of money,
<v Speaker 5>if you weren't balling out. If you didn't have a
<v Speaker 5>rolex or someone who was going to give you a rolex,
<v Speaker 5>you were a fucking loser, right, And I was like, WHOA,
<v Speaker 5>Like that actually is a very important cultural context because
<v Speaker 5>I've always thought thirty two was such a and I
<v Speaker 5>think maybe also that's like maybe a little bit of
<v Speaker 5>a joke on a joke with a thirty two year old,
<v Speaker 5>but like it's I forgot that this was a very
<v Speaker 5>trying time to be someone who wasn't living as a
<v Speaker 5>full blown capitalist or at the top of their white
<v Speaker 5>male game.
<v Speaker 3>Definitely true.
<v Speaker 1>So anything else you want to say about Bender before
<v Speaker 1>we take a break.
<v Speaker 3>I think it's it was a critical power shift that
<v Speaker 3>Bender showed after Andrew took his ass down h quickly, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>and like White knighted him and it was like, look, bitch,
<v Speaker 3>I will fold you up, okay, And then Bender just
<v Speaker 3>was like, didn't even fight him. But when he got
<v Speaker 3>up and produced that switchblade. I think that was a
<v Speaker 3>moment of like exhibiting the actual stark danger that Bender
<v Speaker 3>and someone like him that's been that victimized would understandably
<v Speaker 3>carry a weapon, yeah, and need to shift the power
<v Speaker 3>balance back. That knife probably had his dad's name on it,
<v Speaker 3>and that if his dad hit him one more goddamn time, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that there was going to be a murder scene at
<v Speaker 3>his house.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he probably sleeps with that knife under his pillow.
<v Speaker 3>I guarantee that's his most prized possession.
<v Speaker 1>The priority of safety for a kid like Bender is
<v Speaker 1>so big.
<v Speaker 3>And why we need to be careful and mindful that
<v Speaker 3>we don't just run up and put our hands on
<v Speaker 3>people or think that you know, just because you're more
<v Speaker 3>athletically gifted or whatever, that's somebody that you have less
<v Speaker 3>to lose than they do.
<v Speaker 1>Well, we'll take a break, there will be right back.
<v Speaker 1>So shifting sharply but feels poetic to shift from Bender
<v Speaker 1>to Claire, as Bender can't leave Claire the fuck alone
<v Speaker 1>the whole movie nope, which we haven't even touched upon
<v Speaker 1>that part of it. But Claire is the popular girl,
<v Speaker 1>the perfect girl, the prom queen esque girl. But I
<v Speaker 1>think she's this person that when watching, well, when observing
<v Speaker 1>someone like her, you would think that she has no problems.
<v Speaker 1>And I think what's so interesting and well written about
<v Speaker 1>this movie is that every kids so different, and every
<v Speaker 1>kid still has problems, and she has a very specific
<v Speaker 1>kind of problem, which was also I wonder how novel
<v Speaker 1>even in like the early eighties, which is having parents
<v Speaker 1>that we're maybe going to get divorced and kind of
<v Speaker 1>maybe living like this separate well, the separate life thing
<v Speaker 1>was probably pretty common. But I don't know what are
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts, Hannah about, because I know you and I
<v Speaker 1>were talking about the clear dynamic with her parents.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that something that seems pretty evident with
<v Speaker 2>her conversation that she has with her dad in the
<v Speaker 2>car is that she is being triangulated in the marriage
<v Speaker 2>she is getting there instead of talking to each other,
<v Speaker 2>they're giving information to her, or they are using her
<v Speaker 2>as a distraction from their other problems they are they
<v Speaker 2>are very much putting her in a role where now
<v Speaker 2>she has to try and appease both of them and
<v Speaker 2>be okay with the way that they treat her. And
<v Speaker 2>that's pretty common in terms of especially with a couple
<v Speaker 2>that maybe isn't getting along very well, or a couple
<v Speaker 2>that's having a lot of marital strife, or they don't
<v Speaker 2>feel connected to each other and they only feel like parents.
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes people really lean into the parent role where they
<v Speaker 2>kind of lose a part of their individuality in some ways,
<v Speaker 2>and so sometimes when that happens in marriages, and then
<v Speaker 2>the kid is actually the one who has to take
<v Speaker 2>on all the slack and all the flack for everything
<v Speaker 2>that's going on in the family. And so I think
<v Speaker 2>that clear is is being used by both of her
<v Speaker 2>parents where neither one of them have to confront anything
<v Speaker 2>or do anything different, but she has to sit with.
<v Speaker 1>All the discomfort. She also feels like an only child.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's confirmed or disproved in the mind.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that she does.
<v Speaker 5>Brother because because at one point someone said to her,
<v Speaker 5>I believe it was bender if you had to go
<v Speaker 5>live with your mom.
<v Speaker 4>Oh God, who would you pick?
<v Speaker 5>And she said, I probably just go live with my brother.
<v Speaker 5>And I thought that was actually very interesting as an
<v Speaker 5>only child. Uh and I'm sorry a lot of my
<v Speaker 5>commentary will be self centered, uh and ilge, but I
<v Speaker 5>was thinking that as like an only child. I was like, damn,
<v Speaker 5>that's fucking interesting to be like I gotta get if
<v Speaker 5>I'm going to get out of my home situation, maybe
<v Speaker 5>I'll go live with my brother.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which I don't know where I thought only child,
<v Speaker 1>because I remember writing down that line in terms of
<v Speaker 1>how telling, well, one, it made me feel hopeful that
<v Speaker 1>she has a positive relationship and basically an escape via
<v Speaker 1>her brother and sounds like he must live out of
<v Speaker 1>the house already, which is also telling, not like did
<v Speaker 1>he get out as soon as he could?
<v Speaker 3>Well, and also you know that energy of only child,
<v Speaker 3>that brother could be old enough. True that she feels
<v Speaker 3>like an only child and has only child energy.
<v Speaker 1>Well, she's the only kid in the house, right, so
<v Speaker 1>her parents.
<v Speaker 2>Feel very high school sweetheart, or like they got pregnant
<v Speaker 2>really fast, and like she has like an older brother
<v Speaker 2>who is be a lot older than her and that's
<v Speaker 2>why they're together, that's why their.
<v Speaker 3>Marriage sucks, or a second marriage or a second marriage.
<v Speaker 3>And Bennie, you would ask something about Hannah was making
<v Speaker 3>such great points that I was shutting myself up because
<v Speaker 3>I didn't want to interrupt, because Hannah's awesome. Is no Brittany.
<v Speaker 3>You said something about like wondering, like with the time period,
<v Speaker 3>what the divorce is, right, So I was curious about
<v Speaker 3>that and went on an adventure and looking up the
<v Speaker 3>divorce rate per thousand, So in nineteen seventy it would
<v Speaker 3>have been fifteen per one thousand fifteen marriages depending in
<v Speaker 3>divorce per one thousand, But that number jumped to twenty
<v Speaker 3>three in the eighties and dropped back down, and that
<v Speaker 3>was the highest it's ever been including now now it's
<v Speaker 3>at a fifty year low.
<v Speaker 1>Well, people aren'tetting married, that's why.
<v Speaker 3>Well, no, it this would only count married people. But
<v Speaker 3>people are getting married later and for their own reasons.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, not for pregnancy.
<v Speaker 3>Since when I DJed weddings, I noticed when I started,
<v Speaker 3>because I DJed weddings from two thousand and nine to
<v Speaker 3>probably seventeen, that the weddings that I did in the
<v Speaker 3>early years around two and nine twenty ten, many people
<v Speaker 3>were kind of just out of college and at twenty
<v Speaker 3>three twenty four range. But by the time I was done,
<v Speaker 3>the average age of people getting married was thirty one.
<v Speaker 3>There are a lot, a lot of shifts that happened,
<v Speaker 3>and I think this would have been a part of
<v Speaker 3>a wave of social stain on her entire little social
<v Speaker 3>richie rich world where her parents were getting a divorce,
<v Speaker 3>and that would have been both a thing a lot
<v Speaker 3>of people were starting to go through, but still be
<v Speaker 3>pretty new and probably made her some kind of pariah.
<v Speaker 3>That made her feel all sorts of ways about herself
<v Speaker 3>and her safety that contribute to how she presents.
<v Speaker 1>I think, yeah, it seemed like her parents were doing
<v Speaker 1>the thing that people would do instead of get divorced,
<v Speaker 1>which is spend absolutely no time together. Like there's a
<v Speaker 1>few references and also jabs that Bender makes about her mom,
<v Speaker 1>just like being drunk on the Caribbean and just kind
<v Speaker 1>of maybe spending time away and being an alcoholic, and
<v Speaker 1>Claire does kind of insinuate, well more than insinuate, that
<v Speaker 1>her mom is the more hard volatile parent with like
<v Speaker 1>that'll like hold rules and say you're grounded, and that
<v Speaker 1>her dad is the more permissive one. And their relationship
<v Speaker 1>actually is the one that gave me a lot of
<v Speaker 1>kind of icky feelings. Not so much that I think
<v Speaker 1>he was necessarily like doing something to her, but I
<v Speaker 1>think he was definitely doing that thing that some of
<v Speaker 1>his parents can do where he is dissatisfied with his wife,
<v Speaker 1>so he's kind of putting his daughter in that sort
<v Speaker 1>of partner role where he's like giving her a big
<v Speaker 1>ears and he's being too affectionate with her, and he's
<v Speaker 1>like putting all of his love that should go to
<v Speaker 1>a spouse onto his daughter and it's gross, yes, and
<v Speaker 1>you can tell that she isn't into it, like in
<v Speaker 1>the car when he drops her off and he's being
<v Speaker 1>really like, it's okay that that does She's like, she
<v Speaker 1>does have this look on her face like her dad's
<v Speaker 1>giving her the ick, like I'm good, like I want
<v Speaker 1>to go and not be here and being caught in
<v Speaker 1>that dynamic where the mom probably sees that. I'm sure
<v Speaker 1>she does. And I wonder if that also causes a
<v Speaker 1>lot of damage to the mom's relationship to Claire in
<v Speaker 1>that sort of way where because.
<v Speaker 2>Then it feels like a competition right between the daughter
<v Speaker 2>and the mom for his attention. Then so then there's
<v Speaker 2>a chance that that absolutely has it creates a bear
<v Speaker 2>between her and connecting with her mom.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah. And it seemed like not only is it that,
<v Speaker 3>but the dad based on her dialogue because we don't
<v Speaker 3>see it right, but it seems like from her dialogue,
<v Speaker 3>her perception of it is that her dad is using
<v Speaker 3>that on purpose. It's not even genuine, that he's weaponizing
<v Speaker 3>it to make the mom jealous and kind of override
<v Speaker 3>whatever things mom has come up with. And her first
<v Speaker 3>comment to him is Daddy, why didn't you get me
<v Speaker 3>out of this? That's her first line in the movie.
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm ye. So and then he's like very i know,
<v Speaker 1>like acquiescing to her in a way that gives me
<v Speaker 1>the weirds.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'll buy you a pony or whatever afterwards said yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And then it does make sense if you trickle it
<v Speaker 1>down to her presentation at school, because what Claire is
<v Speaker 1>learning is how to be sort of a product, how
<v Speaker 1>she's not really a person and she is a she's
<v Speaker 1>our own persona. She is like a little figurine in
<v Speaker 1>her household. And so then she goes to school, and
<v Speaker 1>she's also kind of like a figuring a Barbie doll
<v Speaker 1>at school, Like it's all about external pressure, external validation
<v Speaker 1>who she is to other people. And no, there's no
<v Speaker 1>curiosity from her parents or from her peers about who
<v Speaker 1>is Claire though underneath like who is actually Claire? Like
<v Speaker 1>what is Claire like? And obviously, because it's so easy
<v Speaker 1>to do in your teenager anyway, that becomes her persona.
<v Speaker 1>Like how defensive she gets in the scene when they
<v Speaker 1>do the whole horrible like would you still talk to
<v Speaker 1>us on Monday thing? And she's like, well, you don't
<v Speaker 1>get it, like she's very aware of like the social rules. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and it does seem to feel understandably like picked on
<v Speaker 1>when all the other kids are dogpiling on her for
<v Speaker 1>being so attached to the social roles and rules. But
<v Speaker 1>that's like like the wasp kind of thing, Like when
<v Speaker 1>you're a wasp and it's so much like image based
<v Speaker 1>and facade based and you aren't a real person, You're
<v Speaker 1>like a blow up doll.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean, even her special talent is that she
<v Speaker 3>can put on her makeup with ercouraged lipstick centered in
<v Speaker 3>her cleavage. Of all the special things they're talking about
<v Speaker 3>that she can do, that's what she's given. I thought
<v Speaker 3>that was profoundly said honestly.
<v Speaker 5>Well honestly though, Ben, if you were called to task
<v Speaker 5>to be in a talent show out of nowhere, like
<v Speaker 5>what would your talent be?
<v Speaker 4>Like a lot of us do not have.
<v Speaker 5>Actually, maybe that's a little bit of a rhetorical and
<v Speaker 5>say if Ben, if you know six talents you would have, well, congratulations,
<v Speaker 5>because I would sit there and not have a fucking.
<v Speaker 4>Clue what to do.
<v Speaker 5>I would if I had didn't know already how to
<v Speaker 5>apply lipstick in my cleavage, I'd be trying to improve it,
<v Speaker 5>and if it didn't work out, i'd say, yeah, it's
<v Speaker 5>like a comedy bit, like that's my special talent.
<v Speaker 4>But can I just really quickly.
<v Speaker 5>Say though, for all of Claire's like sort of faux vapidness,
<v Speaker 5>I think they really land her character very well, and
<v Speaker 5>that her wealth is like I would say, appropriate, like it,
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't feel outlandish or weird. They do belong in
<v Speaker 5>the same school district all of these people, for sure,
<v Speaker 5>And I'm from Lexington, mass which is like a very
<v Speaker 5>bougie town on paper, it's one of the best school
<v Speaker 5>systems in Massachusetts. But at the same time, like you know,
<v Speaker 5>my I was. My mom was a single mom who
<v Speaker 5>had me and we lived in an apartment on the outskirts,
<v Speaker 5>which I feel like might might be true of some
<v Speaker 5>people economically in this movie, specifically Bender, But I think
<v Speaker 5>Bender would maybe even be more of a true towny.
<v Speaker 5>But if you were to look at someone like Claire, okay,
<v Speaker 5>maybe you're family settled there, like after the dad moved
<v Speaker 5>from one coast or another, the family sort of wound
<v Speaker 5>up in Chicago, and you can just tell, like, yes,
<v Speaker 5>she has sushi for lunch, but she's never probably been
<v Speaker 5>to Japan.
<v Speaker 4>When they're like, where do you want to be, She's like,
<v Speaker 4>I wish I was on a plane to France.
<v Speaker 5>And if you were to shove this movie down like
<v Speaker 5>three tax brackets, Like, she is not that much different
<v Speaker 5>than a girl in a single family home who has
<v Speaker 5>a bedroom that is like London or Paris themed, Like,
<v Speaker 5>she's not obscenely wealthy, and so while like her privilege, definitely,
<v Speaker 5>Tinga is like her character quite a bit. I would
<v Speaker 5>say that it's not overwhelmingly so or not cartoonishly so.
<v Speaker 5>I also like it's one of those things where she's
<v Speaker 5>very pretty, but like for like a redhead, like I mean,
<v Speaker 5>you would assume that she's popular, at least large in
<v Speaker 5>part due to her wealth. I mean, to be a
<v Speaker 5>popular redhead, even as pretty as Molly Ringwald is, to
<v Speaker 5>be a popular fucking like top of the list redhead
<v Speaker 5>in nineteen eighty four, like you had to have some
<v Speaker 5>major cashi.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because she plays in sixteen Candles, right,
<v Speaker 1>and she plays the polar opposite in a lot of
<v Speaker 1>ways of this character, the lonely virgin nerd who people
<v Speaker 1>can't even remember it's her birthday, like an invisible girl.
<v Speaker 1>And I think you're right in that there is a
<v Speaker 1>she's operating from, like a social class, like not like
<v Speaker 1>a like you said, like an absurdly wealthy one. But
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't be shocked if all the girls that she's
<v Speaker 1>friends with now their parents all hang out, their parents
<v Speaker 1>all go to maybe like the same nice country club,
<v Speaker 1>and their moms went to the same like I don't know,
<v Speaker 1>jazz or science class.
<v Speaker 5>There's some other way that you get ingratiated into the
<v Speaker 5>popular group at that school, for sure. And I think
<v Speaker 5>it could exist around a country club.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, or whose parents are partying and like who's hosting stuff? Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I think it's all of the above. That there's some
<v Speaker 3>way that you're part of the cool class or not.
<v Speaker 1>And if she lost her status like the BMW and
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff, that it would probably have a big
<v Speaker 1>impact on her status within her friend group.
<v Speaker 3>Probably.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So what.
<v Speaker 4>Would her standing be without that?
<v Speaker 5>That's her standing? Her ol standing is that like, I'm
<v Speaker 5>the girl who has diamond earrings and eats sushi and detention.
<v Speaker 5>That is before we know anything else, especially because we
<v Speaker 5>do know she's apprude, I mean really everything you said
<v Speaker 5>about her character in sixteen Candles. The only difference I
<v Speaker 5>could thing is that people in this movie, because she's popular,
<v Speaker 5>they probably do remember her birthday. Yeah, otherwise, and maybe
<v Speaker 5>the house was overstuffed, but otherwise, I mean it's kind
<v Speaker 5>of this character.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because the parents do have a pretty big, nice
<v Speaker 1>house in sixteen Candles. I mean, the older sister is
<v Speaker 1>kind of what she's playing in this movie. Is the
<v Speaker 1>older sister in sixteen Candles? Does the older sister and
<v Speaker 1>sixteen Candles marry Carl the janitor actress?
<v Speaker 5>Actually, you know what that does sound right because you
<v Speaker 5>would reuse the worlds a lot. But I mean it's
<v Speaker 5>better the older sister than long duck dong, you know
<v Speaker 5>what I mean?
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I don't even know if we can
<v Speaker 1>ever do sixteen Candles because of that.
<v Speaker 4>I can't.
<v Speaker 5>No, you can, but I will say it has It's
<v Speaker 5>gonna be a learning curve. I'll tell you that much,
<v Speaker 5>because you're gonna have to say the entire time, Well,
<v Speaker 5>we just want to acknowledge that you can't even talk
<v Speaker 5>like it's one of those things where you're gonna feel
<v Speaker 5>guilty talking about it unless you can really you're good
<v Speaker 5>at your job.
<v Speaker 4>You know how to do that?
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm, yeah, it'll get shredded. Like I hope you
<v Speaker 3>don't like this movie if you listen to the show,
<v Speaker 3>because you won't after it.
<v Speaker 1>But I think, like, yeah, the whole point of Claire
<v Speaker 1>kind of is that she doesn't have a point outside
<v Speaker 1>of her status and outside of her image. Like I
<v Speaker 1>don't know who Claire would be if she didn't have
<v Speaker 1>this wealth as her personality or this position as her personality.
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't seem like she knows who she is either.
<v Speaker 1>Like a lot of the questions she gets asked, including
<v Speaker 1>the hidden talent, she doesn't really have solid answers to,
<v Speaker 1>And I wonder if anyone ever really asks her. You know,
<v Speaker 1>her parents are probably so far of each other's asses
<v Speaker 1>with their cattiness that they aren't paying attention to her,
<v Speaker 1>and they aren't trying to foster her as like an individual.
<v Speaker 4>She's she's a poem, she's her daddy's wife.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, don't you think and that, like, you know, with
<v Speaker 5>the mom being gone and everything else. I mean, really,
<v Speaker 5>her job, I feel in life at this point is
<v Speaker 5>to flip through fashion magazines, get along with the right people,
<v Speaker 5>and then maybe like float into a pretty good college
<v Speaker 5>where maybe she'll find her way, but she might not
<v Speaker 5>be at this point. Anyway, she'd be getting her mrs.
<v Speaker 5>You know what I mean, you stay back by.
<v Speaker 3>Spring, you know Northwestern. I mean like this is where
<v Speaker 3>they would go, and they'd go to the big, expensive,
<v Speaker 3>fancy private school that's right nearby at Northwestern U. And
<v Speaker 3>probably exactly that, get the mrs and find somebody that's
<v Speaker 3>a pseudo version of her dad. I think that's exactly right.
<v Speaker 3>She's mom is no longer willing to be Dad's arm
<v Speaker 3>candy and trophy, so now she is.
<v Speaker 5>And and mrs wasn't like a slur back then, like
<v Speaker 5>that was considered like, oh good for her.
<v Speaker 2>And I think and actually I was thinking, I don't
<v Speaker 2>even know if she'd go to college. I don't even
<v Speaker 2>know if her dad would be supporting that. I feel
<v Speaker 2>like I feel like her goal really would be to.
<v Speaker 1>Get her mrs. Like I feel like that's the goal
<v Speaker 1>that she would feel.
<v Speaker 2>Like is important, and that her dad would probably feel
<v Speaker 2>like is important. And if he's the one influencing, if
<v Speaker 2>he's the one who manages the money, like.
<v Speaker 1>There's a whole.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't know if she'd be encouraged
<v Speaker 2>to go to college. I don't know if she's being
<v Speaker 2>encouraged because the way that her dad looks at her
<v Speaker 2>and the way that even her mother looks at herself
<v Speaker 2>seems to be as I'm an object and that's all
<v Speaker 2>that I'm that's the only role that I'm allowed to play.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is probably why she feels like her only
<v Speaker 1>potential is to escape entirely and go to her brother,
<v Speaker 1>and then maybe there she can become a person.
<v Speaker 5>Fan theory, I think her brother lives in Japan, and
<v Speaker 5>that's what the sushi is a reference to, is maybe
<v Speaker 5>her brother does something cool in Japan. But no, she
<v Speaker 5>would have to go to college because you would be
<v Speaker 5>a loser at that time if you didn't go to college,
<v Speaker 5>like there was no course, no, Like it's I enjoyed
<v Speaker 5>that part of your Never Been Kissed episode as well.
<v Speaker 5>Started keep being referential, but you know, it's it's true
<v Speaker 5>that like there was for most most of my life anyway,
<v Speaker 5>like if you didn't go to college, you were a loser.
<v Speaker 5>And now I think, oh my god, if I if
<v Speaker 5>I came into a kid, evolve a sudden, I had
<v Speaker 5>a kid and they said, what do I do with
<v Speaker 5>my life? I'd say, don't worry about college right now,
<v Speaker 5>And that was never the memo I got. And so
<v Speaker 5>this whole actually a lot of this movie I think
<v Speaker 5>centers around being on the precipice of potentially higher education,
<v Speaker 5>which is a stressor.
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure you all know.
<v Speaker 1>It does make me wonder though, kind of I'll take
<v Speaker 1>them a middle road between Molly and Hannah in that
<v Speaker 1>my mom was the first person in her family to
<v Speaker 1>go to college as and especially as like a woman.
<v Speaker 1>She's first there some period, but she was probably went
<v Speaker 1>to college like only maybe a few years before this movie,
<v Speaker 1>and her family, her parents discouraged her from going to
<v Speaker 1>college because they were like, you're gonna be a spinster,
<v Speaker 1>that it was not a feminine look to be that educated.
<v Speaker 1>So it could be very different between like seventy nine
<v Speaker 1>eighty and like eighty four. But I do know my
<v Speaker 1>mom had that experience, and so there's so much of
<v Speaker 1>that poo pooing of women being educated around that time
<v Speaker 1>that I think it could go either way, depending on
<v Speaker 1>maybe that culture around there.
<v Speaker 3>Eighty four is what like six years into women being
<v Speaker 3>able to have credit cards and bank accounts with their own.
<v Speaker 3>I wonder why the divorce rate went up, you know,
<v Speaker 3>like they could they could exactly, and those that needed
<v Speaker 3>to had financial means to escape. Now that it's a
<v Speaker 3>bad thing, it's a good thing because bad situation being
<v Speaker 3>bound to it by finances is fucked up. I think
<v Speaker 3>this class of folks that live here would have been
<v Speaker 3>probably pushed towards college. And it's also equally possible that
<v Speaker 3>maybe there's that shame that you're looking at that, like
<v Speaker 3>what do you even doing doing that? Just like get
<v Speaker 3>a husband, your husband, do that?
<v Speaker 5>Well, what are you gonna do from like eight, like
<v Speaker 5>sit around do cocaine? Like what the hell are you
<v Speaker 5>gonna do with your diet?
<v Speaker 1>What she'll do is she'll she'll go to the social events.
<v Speaker 1>She'll do She'll do a promenade around the country club.
<v Speaker 1>She'll like waggertail feathers. Hopefully, maybe she'll get a boyfriend
<v Speaker 1>by the time she leaves high school, and then she'll
<v Speaker 1>probably get pressured to marry him. It's surprising that I
<v Speaker 1>think in another movie her and Andrew would have already
<v Speaker 1>been dating and they would have had a couple in
<v Speaker 1>the room.
<v Speaker 5>I think Andrew's a little beneath her in some ways.
<v Speaker 5>In class, he's I think he's like, well, I think
<v Speaker 5>he's like probably the twelfth or fifteenth most popular guy
<v Speaker 5>in his class, but he's definitely in this circle. But yeah,
<v Speaker 5>I like, what was a woman to do with her
<v Speaker 5>time back then? Because back going back as far as Greece,
<v Speaker 5>we were already shitting on women having a vocation with
<v Speaker 5>like beauty school. Right, you're already a loser for going
<v Speaker 5>to beauty school. Which, by the way, if I could
<v Speaker 5>do one thing differently in my life, it would have
<v Speaker 5>been to like go to beauty school. When I after
<v Speaker 5>I'd gotten my college degree, I wish I had a
<v Speaker 5>vocation like that so badly because it would feel I
<v Speaker 5>would feel very confident falling back on that. And that's
<v Speaker 5>why I was kind of like, later on, we'll see that,
<v Speaker 5>like Bender, there's some attitude around him being more of
<v Speaker 5>a shop guy, and I'm like, I feel like Bender
<v Speaker 5>could financially be the best off out of all these people.
<v Speaker 5>But Andrew, when we first see him get dropped off
<v Speaker 5>at school, his dad's pissy us to drop him off,
<v Speaker 5>not just because his dad's like, I know it sucks
<v Speaker 5>to be there, but the problem is you got caught,
<v Speaker 5>but you can't be doing bad stuff because you're gonna
<v Speaker 5>lose your full ride. And I say without a foot
<v Speaker 5>So without a full ride? What college world are we talking?
<v Speaker 5>What would a woman like Claire do at eighteen if
<v Speaker 5>not go to college? In nineteen eighty four, we were
<v Speaker 5>very like the women in my family were in all
<v Speaker 5>in college in like the fifties, So like, I don't,
<v Speaker 5>I literally never occur. It didn't occur to me that,
<v Speaker 5>But you're right, especially probably in the Midwest, it was
<v Speaker 5>like a homely, weird girl thing to go get a
<v Speaker 5>college education.
<v Speaker 3>I don't.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Claire, she probably would just live with her parents
<v Speaker 1>and flounce around until she got a good boyfriend. She'd
<v Speaker 1>probably date. She probably professionally date until she found her husband.
<v Speaker 1>And that's probably what she would do, and just go
<v Speaker 1>to events and go to parties and just be a
<v Speaker 1>Midwest upper class socialite.
<v Speaker 4>Oh like helping her father. Oh I help my father.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I help at the store.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, exactly, that sort of absolutely party plan and event
<v Speaker 5>event coordinator.
<v Speaker 4>That's actually hard.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, it's a hard job.
<v Speaker 5>But I feel I do feel like she's that person that,
<v Speaker 5>like after college, you.
<v Speaker 4>Realize like, oh, you're fucking rich, or.
<v Speaker 5>Like after high school when you're someone's like, oh, I'm
<v Speaker 5>just working for my dad, and you realize like later
<v Speaker 5>on that's like slang for like my dad pays.
<v Speaker 1>For my life, put me on payroll.
<v Speaker 5>But I'm not allowed to say that because yes, because
<v Speaker 5>that's ghost because yeah, because it'd be acknowledging that we're
<v Speaker 5>not rich, rich rich, But we have enough to go around.
<v Speaker 1>All right, So since we are starting to talk about Andrew,
<v Speaker 1>we will take a break here and be right back
<v Speaker 1>to discuss him more fully. All right, So we are back,
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to talk about our boy Andrew. So
<v Speaker 1>Andrew is the jock, which is funny. I don't think
<v Speaker 1>of Emilio Estevez as the jock type. I feel like
<v Speaker 1>I can put him in my pocket. But that's me
<v Speaker 1>also stereo typing him, so shame on me.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, our introduction to him is the coach for
<v Speaker 3>the Mighty Ducks is a professional hockey player, Gordon Bombay.
<v Speaker 1>That's true, And you're right, like he gets introduced as like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>he gets introduced as a kid who is probably his dad,
<v Speaker 1>seems working class, he's dependent on our scholarships, so I
<v Speaker 1>has to stay out of trouble. But his dad also
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem You can tell right away that his dad
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem too fucked up by what he did to
<v Speaker 1>get into detention, like like you were saying, Ben, like
<v Speaker 1>he's more it's the very like I'm sorry I got
<v Speaker 1>caught energy and not like the sorry for what I
<v Speaker 1>actually did.
<v Speaker 3>The dad was like Dad wasn't ashamed of what he did.
<v Speaker 3>I think, you know, obviously his self revealing monologue is
<v Speaker 3>pretty powerful of him expressing his actual remorse and regret,
<v Speaker 3>showing actual recognition that what he did was horrible, but
<v Speaker 3>to the introduction of the character is clearly showing that
<v Speaker 3>like Dad has the you know, like he's like a
<v Speaker 3>hunting a shooting vest On and he's driving at Ford
<v Speaker 3>Bronco suv like the first suv I think, and kind
<v Speaker 3>of carrying that like sportsman man's man kind of everyman attitude.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think what's interesting about Andrew is something
<v Speaker 1>I started noticing early and often with his character is
<v Speaker 1>how atypical he actually is of the mentality of the
<v Speaker 1>stereotypical jock, in that you can see right away that
<v Speaker 1>he is clocking other people, and I can't think of
<v Speaker 1>any specific examples off the top of my head in
<v Speaker 1>the beginning, but he is very attuned to other people.
<v Speaker 1>He seems like he has a natural high emotional intelligence,
<v Speaker 1>and he is checking yeah, he's checking in with other people.
<v Speaker 1>He's the first one to defend Claire against Bender, which
<v Speaker 1>also just be him kind of playing the jockey role
<v Speaker 1>in some ways. But he's very attuned to everybody in
<v Speaker 1>the group in a way that is very genuinely leadership ESQ.
<v Speaker 1>Which is very sweet. And unfortunately, like a lot of
<v Speaker 1>especially men who are victims of toxic masculinity, that version
<v Speaker 1>of leadership is not appreciated by his father and probably
<v Speaker 1>maybe even by the group he is within at school,
<v Speaker 1>and what they consider leadership is more of what we
<v Speaker 1>see with the principle, which is like domination to be
<v Speaker 1>strong and to be a leader is to be I
<v Speaker 1>guess feared more than loved. And Andrew feels like someone
<v Speaker 1>who would actually be very easy to love and very
<v Speaker 1>easy to love others if he was allowed.
<v Speaker 3>I think looking at Andrew, I think I think John
<v Speaker 3>Hughes did some interesting writing between Andrew and Bender, and
<v Speaker 3>it kind of flipped a little bit of some of
<v Speaker 3>the stereotypes. Which probably makes this movie so enduring is
<v Speaker 3>that while Bender obviously carries some of the burnout characteristics,
<v Speaker 3>he also carries a lot of that alpha JAQ mentality
<v Speaker 3>that you would have seen in other movies of the era,
<v Speaker 3>where the jock who's the hyper confidence, the mask, the
<v Speaker 3>antagonizing others that's controlling the situation would have filled and
<v Speaker 3>Andrew doesn't fit that. He has more of like the
<v Speaker 3>kind of the team captain, the dedicated yeah, like the
<v Speaker 3>White Knight kind of attitude of like I'm gonna he's
<v Speaker 3>a tryhard. You know, he may not be the best
<v Speaker 3>athlete in the world, but he's gonna try really really hard,
<v Speaker 3>and sometimes in athletics that actually is enough to get
<v Speaker 3>you somewhere. Like he was wearing a state patch on
<v Speaker 3>his shoulders, so he's clearly been a successful wrestler. To
<v Speaker 3>state in wrestling is pretty fucking hard, actually, and looking
<v Speaker 3>at him doing that, but not like carrying that dominant
<v Speaker 3>that Bender does where he's like see me, notice me,
<v Speaker 3>let me control this. I think with some interesting writing
<v Speaker 3>of showing that he can be empathic, he can be thinking.
<v Speaker 3>He's more of a rule follower team player, don't do
<v Speaker 3>the wrong things, and also side note, don't get in
<v Speaker 3>my way and like, fuck up my chances to get
<v Speaker 3>out of here, because my entire goal of life is
<v Speaker 3>to get the fuck out of here and build a
<v Speaker 3>new life for myself where I don't have to fight
<v Speaker 3>for scraps of attention with my athletic talent, but instead
<v Speaker 3>can shine on my own merits because I'm kind of awesome.
<v Speaker 3>Damn it noticed me beyond what I do.
<v Speaker 5>I felt like, you know, this character rewatching it today.
<v Speaker 5>It is such a love letter in terms of write
<v Speaker 5>to the pre collegiate athlete in every school that reads
<v Speaker 5>as popular because they're fit, they're athletic, they're cool, they
<v Speaker 5>hang out with like they they fit in with the
<v Speaker 5>cool guys and like, you know, guys could always use
<v Speaker 5>a couple more cool ones, right, But it.
<v Speaker 4>Also, yeah, it's all.
<v Speaker 5>It also speaks to all the great things you can
<v Speaker 5>get out of athletics as a person, which is exactly
<v Speaker 5>that empathy, that sort of intuition, that paying attention, that mindfulness,
<v Speaker 5>awareness of surroundings like these are all things that are
<v Speaker 5>sort of underappreciated traditionally about athletic people in film, but
<v Speaker 5>specifically athletic men, because so often I would say that
<v Speaker 5>the Bender character and the Andrew character is sort of
<v Speaker 5>shrunk into one.
<v Speaker 4>And I do think it's nice that.
<v Speaker 5>This sort of extracts like a real black, white and
<v Speaker 5>gray of life like masculinity and what it looks like.
<v Speaker 5>And I don't think I've ever really appreciated how masterfully
<v Speaker 5>Andrew is written until this watch of the episode. As
<v Speaker 5>a full blown adult who also like appreciates sports now
<v Speaker 5>as someone who never appreciated sports, I really see there's
<v Speaker 5>an athlete in him that's so wonderfully represented.
<v Speaker 3>I agree, I think Andrew would have been. He is
<v Speaker 3>the heir of someone who could go pro, like for
<v Speaker 3>real go pro, and is focused on it and fixated
<v Speaker 3>on that, but not so caught up in like the
<v Speaker 3>air of his own bullshit. Like I just keep thinking
<v Speaker 3>of Revenge of the Nerds and how all the jocks
<v Speaker 3>were representing that, and they are all just such like
<v Speaker 3>raging assholes that like we're just like gonna do whatever
<v Speaker 3>we want, and like everybody worships us and we're just
<v Speaker 3>so fucking cool. And Andrew carries none of that with him.
<v Speaker 3>He's like a genuine person just trying to make it
<v Speaker 3>and like knows what he's good at. But also he
<v Speaker 3>really does take a step back to acknowledge his flaws
<v Speaker 3>and has to break out of the role armory he
<v Speaker 3>has of like I have the status I have because
<v Speaker 3>I'm good at sports. I'm like, actually good at something.
<v Speaker 3>But he knows it, and he knows that's his place,
<v Speaker 3>so he doesn't overshoot it. He's not like the Jackson
<v Speaker 3>something like Revenge of the Nerds or other eighties movies
<v Speaker 3>would have been portrayed as like we have the money
<v Speaker 3>and the looks and the talent, so like even if
<v Speaker 3>we fucking lose, like we're still kings around here. And
<v Speaker 3>Andrew is not. And I think that was a nice
<v Speaker 3>flip to show a masterful writing. Like you said, Mallya
<v Speaker 3>like the way you described that, I think it's accurate
<v Speaker 3>as a real person.
<v Speaker 4>Thanks.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and such good acting by Amelia Estevez. The whole
<v Speaker 1>monologue when they're sitting in the circle. I keep thinking
<v Speaker 1>about the scene where he starts to his voice starts
<v Speaker 1>to break and he's talking about Larry, the kid he assaulted,
<v Speaker 1>and he's like, I can't. I kept imagining him going
<v Speaker 1>going home and talking to his dad, and the line
<v Speaker 1>that he says, like the humiliation must have been unreal
<v Speaker 1>is such a good line and feels like such a
<v Speaker 1>like a lived in thing to say, and for him
<v Speaker 1>at that age to even think all the way through that,
<v Speaker 1>like to truly put himself into Larry's shoes and see
<v Speaker 1>Larry as like a full human being and not just
<v Speaker 1>the like a kid for him to like kick the
<v Speaker 1>shit out of, and then he doesn't really exist anymore.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Andrew would be a dream client in that
<v Speaker 1>if he got into the therapy office somehow he is
<v Speaker 1>so much like access to his empathy and to his
<v Speaker 1>emotional self and probably would thrive in therapy to have
<v Speaker 1>someone that he could talk to that openly and vulnerably.
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I it makes this his whole whole
<v Speaker 1>story is heartbreaking. When I got into detention, like the
<v Speaker 1>way he talks also like so humbly, with so much
<v Speaker 1>humility about how he saw that kid and had kind
<v Speaker 1>of this like emotional break internally where all of this
<v Speaker 1>stuff with his dad just kind of came to a
<v Speaker 1>fucking head. And I think we all know that feeling
<v Speaker 1>where you see something of yourself that you don't like
<v Speaker 1>in another person, and it makes you so pissed off
<v Speaker 1>in such an irrational, unkind way, and you can't have
<v Speaker 1>to almost like pull yourself back if you can, from
<v Speaker 1>taking it out on them. And the fact that he could,
<v Speaker 1>in that moment, without going to therapy himself, sit there
<v Speaker 1>and like really articulate what his thought process was and
<v Speaker 1>have so much humility and such little ego about how
<v Speaker 1>fucked up that was that he did that to that kid,
<v Speaker 1>and how that it didn't matter if the kid was
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote weak or not, like that was a fucked
<v Speaker 1>up thing to do and he didn't deserve it, and
<v Speaker 1>sitting with that shame. I hope that that stays with
<v Speaker 1>him forever in the sense that like he will never
<v Speaker 1>do something like that again. Like that that hopefully was
<v Speaker 1>like a true learning experience for Andrew, and also hopefully
<v Speaker 1>if he goes on to have kids one day changes
<v Speaker 1>the trajectory of how he would parent his children and
<v Speaker 1>the kind of pressure he would put on his kids,
<v Speaker 1>that he's able to access that much emotional intelligence. It's
<v Speaker 1>I think similar to what you were saying, Molly, when
<v Speaker 1>I watches as a kid and a teenager, Andrew felt
<v Speaker 1>really one note to me and now watching it as
<v Speaker 1>an adult and into the therapist eyes, I was like, shit,
<v Speaker 1>this kid is like he's it. He has such a
<v Speaker 1>good center and yeah, you're what you're saying is like
<v Speaker 1>he's like a true captain where he's looking at He's
<v Speaker 1>a true leader, looking out for everybody, checking in on everybody,
<v Speaker 1>like when like he's also so astute and when Alison
<v Speaker 1>dumps all her shit out of her purse and he says,
<v Speaker 1>either you have that shit in your purse because something
<v Speaker 1>bad's going on, or you wanted us to see shit
<v Speaker 1>in your person think that something like something's regardless of
<v Speaker 1>why you did that, something's wrong. And even having that
<v Speaker 1>intelligence is so deep and profound, and the way that
<v Speaker 1>he would kind of like not go after people, but
<v Speaker 1>he seemed really invested in what everybody else was feeling emotionally.
<v Speaker 3>His his doing that wasn't to antagonize like Bender was doing.
<v Speaker 3>His was to try to make people feel seen, but
<v Speaker 3>like also not suffering bullshit. Like there's there's a mix
<v Speaker 3>of it, you know, like of no, no, like we're
<v Speaker 3>all being vulnerable here and sharing a moment here, and
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, we're gonna all be accountable for our shit
<v Speaker 3>here and we're not gonna no come in here and
<v Speaker 3>bullshit while everybody else is being real sorry.
<v Speaker 5>Funny because he seems like such a team athlete to me,
<v Speaker 5>And while I know wrestling is a team sport, it's
<v Speaker 5>not a traditionally presenting like team sport. And one of
<v Speaker 5>the things I was wondering, one of the things I
<v Speaker 5>was excited about when I was watching this was is
<v Speaker 5>March twenty fourth intentional? Because that is not when a
<v Speaker 5>major team sport is in session. So it's not football,
<v Speaker 5>it's not baseball, Like, is there a reason why it's
<v Speaker 5>written during this one month in which any sport he
<v Speaker 5>would make more sense with isn't.
<v Speaker 3>Active us wrestling would be at the This would be towards.
<v Speaker 5>It's not a group sport, Like wouldn't you be better
<v Speaker 5>as like on a team then you would really get
<v Speaker 5>the payoff of like, oh, this is how a team works.
<v Speaker 3>Well, well, like you said, wrestling, wrestling is very much
<v Speaker 3>a team, but it's it's a team individualized sport and
<v Speaker 3>kind of some of the ways that baseball batting would be,
<v Speaker 3>like everybody faces their opponent one on one, but you
<v Speaker 3>definitely train together as a team. You work together as
<v Speaker 3>a team. There's usually several people in your weight class
<v Speaker 3>that you all work out together and sweat together, and
<v Speaker 3>like physically carry each other as you run and have
<v Speaker 3>to support and train and work on differences in technique
<v Speaker 3>and how different people are going to see things. So
<v Speaker 3>I think you're right in that it's a team sport,
<v Speaker 3>but it's not. So there's that strong sense of individualism
<v Speaker 3>because ultimately only one kid per weight class gets to
<v Speaker 3>compete at varsity level.
<v Speaker 5>I just wish that there had been a sport because
<v Speaker 5>we're so ninety five even percent. I was going to
<v Speaker 5>say ninety ninety five percent of the way there with Andrew,
<v Speaker 5>because he's such a great character to rewatch. But I
<v Speaker 5>think that at the time, if I was when I
<v Speaker 5>was rewatching this as a teenager, when it was probably
<v Speaker 5>made for people my age to watch, but ten years later,
<v Speaker 5>I just remember thinking, I just I think I was
<v Speaker 5>missing how important it is, the team element of it.
<v Speaker 5>And I wondered if there was maybe something referential to
<v Speaker 5>a team or a teammate, or something that felt more
<v Speaker 5>we're brothers together, but we don't agree, if there'd be
<v Speaker 5>even been a slight reference to that.
<v Speaker 4>I think I would have.
<v Speaker 5>Had probably a slightly better understanding of how jocks can
<v Speaker 5>contain multitudes.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I will say I crawled up into IMDb's trivia
<v Speaker 1>right after I watched this, and I was like reading
<v Speaker 1>all of it aloud to Hannah. And he was actually
<v Speaker 1>originally supposed to be a football player, but John Hughes
<v Speaker 1>thought that there were too many football players and movies,
<v Speaker 1>so he changed him to a wrestler.
<v Speaker 4>Got it.
<v Speaker 1>So you are might be onto something. But so we
<v Speaker 1>will take another break care and we'll be back to
<v Speaker 1>talk about Brian the brain. All right, So Brian in
<v Speaker 1>the Nerd? I guess is that what they call him? Geek?
<v Speaker 3>Probably the geek?
<v Speaker 1>Okay, he is. He's actually the tallest one, which I
<v Speaker 1>don't know why I feel like I need to name
<v Speaker 1>up front. I couldn't get over the fact how tall
<v Speaker 1>he was.
<v Speaker 3>And you know what else he is. He is our
<v Speaker 3>representative mm hmm of Batman in this movie because he
<v Speaker 3>was the talk show host. He was in the dark night.
<v Speaker 1>For you to know, Molly, if you didn't pick up
<v Speaker 1>on the episode you listened to every episode. Ben has
<v Speaker 1>to shoehorn Batman into our discussion just because he's in
<v Speaker 1>a erotic relationship with Batman.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's more I have a relationship with trolling the
<v Speaker 3>shit out of YouTube.
<v Speaker 1>But yes, he's a homo erotic relationship patrolling me and Hannah.
<v Speaker 3>That's probably more accurate.
<v Speaker 5>I actually get that bad, and like I feel like,
<v Speaker 5>no matter what, were you a lack in practical real
<v Speaker 5>world talents, I might I might make up for you
<v Speaker 5>in fucking weird shit like that.
<v Speaker 4>So I have to as I completely get that.
<v Speaker 5>And I want to hate on it, but I respect
<v Speaker 5>the troll Brian Is.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he's got well, I don't know if I
<v Speaker 1>was gonna I was gonna say he has the heaviest story,
<v Speaker 1>but that's obviously not true. I feel like every kid's
<v Speaker 1>story is heavy in its own way. He has arguably
<v Speaker 1>like the heaviest reason to be in detention in that
<v Speaker 1>he was going to attempt suicide with a flare gun,
<v Speaker 1>which I don't even know like efficacy of that, but
<v Speaker 1>not a KI. Yeah, but you do see the beginning bad, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>but you do see the beginning of the movie that
<v Speaker 1>that must have been his locker that is exploded, Like
<v Speaker 1>there's a locker that's burned from top to bottom and
<v Speaker 1>that must have been his flare gun exploding in his locker.
<v Speaker 5>I've been meaning to look up a flare gun all
<v Speaker 5>day because I've never seen one. Yeah, you're not killing
<v Speaker 5>anyone with this. I mean, well, actually, oh no, that'd
<v Speaker 5>be a very uncomfortable death. It actually is very Yeah,
<v Speaker 5>I have words for that. But this is interesting.
<v Speaker 1>Would it be like taking like a highly explosive firecracker
<v Speaker 1>to the head.
<v Speaker 3>No, probably not. They don't know they I mean, they're
<v Speaker 3>gonna carry a chart with what he's likely to get
<v Speaker 3>from it.
<v Speaker 1>A CT the theme of the episode.
<v Speaker 3>Right from the off mic conversation. Yes, but uh.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, CT comes from like a series of repeated brain
<v Speaker 5>to I mean, so that's assuming he's gonna hit what
<v Speaker 5>hit himself. I mean, if he tries to repeat attempt
<v Speaker 5>every weekend. But why do you think he'd get CTE
<v Speaker 5>from just the one flare.
<v Speaker 3>Kid get concussed and get a TBI. He's more likely
<v Speaker 3>to suffer a TBI than he is to get anything
<v Speaker 3>that would penetrate his skull and cause death. I don't
<v Speaker 3>think the projectile moves fast enough. It's too big, it's
<v Speaker 3>too clunky, and it doesn't really explode. It just kind
<v Speaker 3>of lights on fire, so it would come out of
<v Speaker 3>the barrel with some significant velocity, cause impact damage and
<v Speaker 3>blunt force trauma, but I don't think, and probably burn,
<v Speaker 3>but it would likely bounce off his head before it
<v Speaker 3>actually like lit itself fully on fire. And I don't
<v Speaker 3>think it would be a successful attempt. I think would
<v Speaker 3>it be. It would be a very very embarrassing moment
<v Speaker 3>that would live on forever. And on that note, I'm
<v Speaker 3>also I was appalled, appalled that a kid that was
<v Speaker 3>intending to end his life and brought a weapon to
<v Speaker 3>do it, however ineffectual, was given detention, well taken to
<v Speaker 3>a hospital.
<v Speaker 1>But do you think they know why.
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't.
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't tell them why
<v Speaker 1>he had a gun, just that he brought a gun.
<v Speaker 1>I could see him because of his perfectionist y stuff
<v Speaker 1>like that and his like good kid rigidity, that I
<v Speaker 1>could see him making up some like bullshit reason of
<v Speaker 1>like oh I was borrowing it from my dad for this,
<v Speaker 1>and da da da, and so he would still have
<v Speaker 1>to get a consequence because of the property damage. But
<v Speaker 1>I would be shocked if he admitted to anyone what
<v Speaker 1>his actual intent was with the gun. I mean, granted
<v Speaker 1>it is the eighties, so I would they weren't.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't put him
<v Speaker 2>in the hospital or even have him talk to a counselor.
<v Speaker 5>Like the other thing I was thinking with that is
<v Speaker 5>like back back then, that would be like showing up
<v Speaker 5>with your wrists cut the wrong way at school, where
<v Speaker 5>they'd be like, you just want attention, Like this is
<v Speaker 5>like a weird fake out. Spend Saturday for eight hours
<v Speaker 5>with some other weird kids. This whole room, by the way,
<v Speaker 5>is like very much the resource room. The whole collection
<v Speaker 5>of this is people I grew up with, like we
<v Speaker 5>have no reason to socialize excep.
<v Speaker 4>We all of different struggles in class.
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, like I feel like this is just like
<v Speaker 5>they're like, what do we do with you, Like, go
<v Speaker 5>spend a Saturday here?
<v Speaker 1>I guess like, yeah, because we did do Heathers a
<v Speaker 1>few seasons ago, and that takes place around the same time,
<v Speaker 1>and the theme of that was suicide and how inappropriate.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that was a campy movie, but also it
<v Speaker 1>was mirrying a real reality, which was how horribly adults
<v Speaker 1>were engaging with the idea of like mental health in general,
<v Speaker 1>but suicide specifically. And I could also see adults being
<v Speaker 1>so uncomfortable, especially like because these aren't it's not like
<v Speaker 1>today where there's maybe like school counselors that are school
<v Speaker 1>psychologists that are like actually trained in this stuff. I
<v Speaker 1>could also see where a principal or the teacher would
<v Speaker 1>get so overwhelmed by the situation that they would minimize
<v Speaker 1>it or dismiss it as like a behavioral problem and
<v Speaker 1>just kind of like throw a detention at it and
<v Speaker 1>and just like not think about it again because they
<v Speaker 1>would be so stumped and like out of their expertise
<v Speaker 1>to know how to deal with it the way that
<v Speaker 1>a lot of I mean you're right, like kids show
<v Speaker 1>up with self harm marks and stuff, and the amount
<v Speaker 1>of times that parents are adults say shitty off color
<v Speaker 1>inappropriate stuff cannot be understated. And I've to be real,
<v Speaker 1>like I've watched mental health therapists, like mental health professionals say,
<v Speaker 1>you know.
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean you think about the right, Like were
<v Speaker 3>we all made fun of that like horribly and kids
<v Speaker 3>were doing like self harm things is like part of that,
<v Speaker 3>but it was they grossly misinterpreted by like the zeitgeist
<v Speaker 3>generally and all of that. Some people that had been
<v Speaker 3>self injuring for a long time, people like, Oh, it's
<v Speaker 3>just like they're just doing it because it's a fad,
<v Speaker 3>And that wasn't the case, I don't think now looking
<v Speaker 3>back at it as an adult and you look back
<v Speaker 3>at stuff and go like, oh god, mm hmm. That's
<v Speaker 3>these kids were like finding an outlet in a culture,
<v Speaker 3>but they had some serious trauma and pain and things
<v Speaker 3>that they were expressing, and people were still ridiculing them
<v Speaker 3>and like not noticing.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, howardly mocking them like it was a fashion trend,
<v Speaker 1>right they were trying out instead of recognizing how intense
<v Speaker 1>you have to be feeling internally to cause that much
<v Speaker 1>like physical pain willingly and intentionally on yourself.
<v Speaker 3>Right.
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's like any identification with like a counter culture, right,
<v Speaker 5>Like people don't seek out counter culture because I mean, yeah,
<v Speaker 5>like you know, I was Ben. I don't want to,
<v Speaker 5>you know, make you uncomfortable, but I.
<v Speaker 4>Was an emo.
<v Speaker 5>I wasn't like a presenting emo, but I was an
<v Speaker 5>emo early on. And I will say that like anytime
<v Speaker 5>that like a counter culture finds you or you seek
<v Speaker 5>out a counter culture there's a part of you that's
<v Speaker 5>like quite literally you're not represented in society. I don't
<v Speaker 5>know if that's what's going on with our boy here,
<v Speaker 5>but like I think that, and I think a lot
<v Speaker 5>of people. I think that a lot of therapists I
<v Speaker 5>have just again self centered but like all my therapists like, no,
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to like I literally wouldn't get my
<v Speaker 5>adderall refilled if like they thought that what I was
<v Speaker 5>saying was serious. But like they kind of just like
<v Speaker 5>you know what I mean, Like they they're like I
<v Speaker 5>see it for what it is. And I think that
<v Speaker 5>that might have been what happened here is I don't
<v Speaker 5>think anyone thought that this kid was going to actually
<v Speaker 5>go through with killing himself.
<v Speaker 4>Come on, yeah, and I have to call the hospital every.
<v Speaker 3>Time if they brought a weapon that yes, his situation,
<v Speaker 3>there's no not even any equivocation. Would that likely resort
<v Speaker 3>in a inpatient stay? I doubt it so to kind
<v Speaker 3>of you know, heads the point like that, I think
<v Speaker 3>he would absolutely have to get taken to a hospital
<v Speaker 3>for assessment or sassed now where someone would come out
<v Speaker 3>and evaluate him and he would probably get sent I
<v Speaker 3>think he'd probably be sent to partial hospital program or
<v Speaker 3>intensive outpatient ultimately to address the seriousness of the pressure
<v Speaker 3>and anxiety he's putting on himself that's causing him to
<v Speaker 3>feel so bad that he's perceiving perfection is the only option,
<v Speaker 3>and that because he failed a test, he's garbage. I
<v Speaker 3>think that would need treatment. I don't think that the
<v Speaker 3>means he presented with would be sufficiently ruled as deadly
<v Speaker 3>enough or serious enough that he would need to be
<v Speaker 3>impatient hospitalized. And he's not presenting the way that he's
<v Speaker 3>in enough to stress that, especially in the post COVID
<v Speaker 3>world where they don't take you for hardly anything except
<v Speaker 3>you are actively thinking about ending your life right now,
<v Speaker 3>and then if you were turned loose, you might do it.
<v Speaker 3>But I think he would need some significant help and
<v Speaker 3>for that bad feeling that is roiling inside of him
<v Speaker 3>and making him doubt himself to be treated, and that
<v Speaker 3>would need to be like from the mandated reporter standpoint, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>we'd have to respond to that.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah question. Oh sorry, just one more question about that
<v Speaker 4>exact thing.
<v Speaker 5>So, like, let's say you do report him and that
<v Speaker 5>he does have this experience with the mental health professionals,
<v Speaker 5>is that going to be on.
<v Speaker 4>His college application. No, yeah, is there are they going
<v Speaker 4>to be like?
<v Speaker 5>Because, by the way, if I was the principal, that's
<v Speaker 5>another reason why I would go to t Let's say,
<v Speaker 5>if this kid's flipping out about a goddamn f on
<v Speaker 5>his shop project, then I'm like, I don't think he
<v Speaker 5>can come back from having a mental health stay on
<v Speaker 5>his college reck. I mean, maybe this is why I again,
<v Speaker 5>once again I told you before, but I mean this
<v Speaker 5>especially now. I shouldn't be a teacher, but I really,
<v Speaker 5>I really would be like measuring away my options and saying, like, ultimately,
<v Speaker 5>I do I think it's gonna fuck this kid up
<v Speaker 5>more if I like prevent his college or limit his
<v Speaker 5>college opportunities by saying this let them maybe we'll just
<v Speaker 5>it's a flair gun.
<v Speaker 1>Well, I actually if you don't mind me taking this spend.
<v Speaker 1>I worked at a partial hospital program in Chicago for
<v Speaker 1>to a little over two years, and Brian reminds me
<v Speaker 1>a lot of some of the kids I would see
<v Speaker 1>there because Chicago, I'm gonna say, hes a notorious but
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's true. Really outside of Chicago
<v Speaker 1>to me, well around with people who work with kids
<v Speaker 1>and adolescents within mental health. The schools around here are
<v Speaker 1>notorious to us in terms of like the intensity and
<v Speaker 1>the pressure and the perfectionisty stuff.
<v Speaker 3>We have a lot across the street from where you
<v Speaker 3>used to work, yes.
<v Speaker 1>And there's a lot of there are a lot of
<v Speaker 1>placement schools where you have to like test in and
<v Speaker 1>perform really well, and it's very college esque.
<v Speaker 3>Actually, it's hard to get into the gifted program in
<v Speaker 3>Chicago than it is to get into Harvard.
<v Speaker 1>Which is so ridiculous. And so I would work with
<v Speaker 1>a lot of kids like Brian, where the academic pressure
<v Speaker 1>would get so intense that they would have suicidal ideation
<v Speaker 1>and they might not get sent to the they might
<v Speaker 1>get assessed, but they wouldn't necessarily go to the hospital.
<v Speaker 1>They would come to my program, which was like a
<v Speaker 1>therapy school. And the amount of times I have this
<v Speaker 1>very distinct memory of being in I did family therapy,
<v Speaker 1>of being in family therapy and trying to make a
<v Speaker 1>self care plan with this teenager and her mom because
<v Speaker 1>she'd had such intense anxiety about school and just like
<v Speaker 1>type A burnout and both and the kid said to me,
<v Speaker 1>I can't relax and I have homework till eleven PM.
<v Speaker 1>And then the mom looked at me and goes, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>she does, as if like there was no wiggle room,
<v Speaker 1>no negotiation. And so a lot of times the conversation
<v Speaker 1>I would have to sometimes have with parents, and it
<v Speaker 1>would be a hard conversation is your kid can't go
<v Speaker 1>to college if they're dead. Your kid can't get straight
<v Speaker 1>a's if they're dead. What does their homework matter if
<v Speaker 1>they're fucking dead? And this was like my kind of
<v Speaker 1>hail Mary thing I would say to parents.
<v Speaker 4>And they were pretty severe, that.
<v Speaker 1>Real rigidity around, because sometimes I would have that conversation
<v Speaker 1>you're kind of bringing up Molly, where we would say,
<v Speaker 1>I think this kid needs to go to the hospital
<v Speaker 1>all because they are presenting very unsafely, like we're worried
<v Speaker 1>that if they go home, even with their parents, that
<v Speaker 1>something might happen. And sometimes we'd say to parents, the
<v Speaker 1>only way they cannot go to the hospital is if
<v Speaker 1>you can watch them twenty four to seven, and if
<v Speaker 1>we're having that conversation, they should be in the hospital.
<v Speaker 1>And the parents would sometimes say, and the kids too, well,
<v Speaker 1>I can't miss blank, I can't miss this test. I
<v Speaker 1>can't miss two weeks of school, and I would say,
<v Speaker 1>I understand this hole that you're in, which is creating
<v Speaker 1>this problem too, And what does it matter if you're
<v Speaker 1>going to fucking kill yourself.
<v Speaker 4>You know, like smart Brittany, Because no, because it does.
<v Speaker 4>It serves to this.
<v Speaker 5>Smaller mental problem of like I have no choice but
<v Speaker 5>to do like to do this, but also I can't
<v Speaker 5>get help because of this.
<v Speaker 4>It speaks Yes, that.
<v Speaker 5>Is such a brilliant way to put it in, such
<v Speaker 5>a brilliant approach, and such a useful thing, I think
<v Speaker 5>really honestly, because you sometimes hear these scenarios getting brought
<v Speaker 5>up with like parents, where it's like, you know, your
<v Speaker 5>kid's in danger if you don't like work on this,
<v Speaker 5>And this is just a really clear cut example of
<v Speaker 5>how the calendar slices both ways.
<v Speaker 3>Dude, Well, yeah, and it does. It really does. And
<v Speaker 3>especially like considering like the context of this film we're
<v Speaker 3>talking about. There's two things I think I wanted to
<v Speaker 3>bring up with your question, Molly, because I think it's
<v Speaker 3>a really good one is how it would be used
<v Speaker 3>now versus how it would be used and how we
<v Speaker 3>see it used in this film. We don't know. I
<v Speaker 3>think which kid that the principle is digging in their file.
<v Speaker 3>When Carl finds him and we see that there's some
<v Speaker 3>mental health information in that, right, I don't know if
<v Speaker 3>that was supposed to be for the nurse, only because
<v Speaker 3>the janitor was saying, like, hey, in the private files,
<v Speaker 3>you're not supposed to be in that.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But hippo wasn't a thing yet.
<v Speaker 3>Hippo was not a thing until I think two thousand
<v Speaker 3>and two.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I thought it was like ninety seven exsis.
<v Speaker 4>I thought Carl was going to start blackmailing him. He
<v Speaker 4>should like milking him.
<v Speaker 5>For cash, dude, because he should. Yeah, one d percent.
<v Speaker 5>He's got that thirty one thousand dollars a year. I
<v Speaker 5>think he'd take nine hundred off the top for old Carl,
<v Speaker 5>you know what I mean?
<v Speaker 4>That would change his That would change his whole financial.
<v Speaker 3>Quarter, sure would I mean even that fifty bucks Carl
<v Speaker 3>as far I was thinking, now, like, man, you're selling
<v Speaker 3>your integrity for fifty bucks. But fifty bucks back thens
<v Speaker 3>you know, two hundred bucks maybe more, but the uh
<v Speaker 3>three times right, So if we're sticking at thirty one thousand,
<v Speaker 3>was ninety six something like Molly did that uh conversion
<v Speaker 3>or the math, there be one hundred and fifty, but
<v Speaker 3>still that's uh seeing it. I don't know what would
<v Speaker 3>have been allowed in private files then and in permanent
<v Speaker 3>records would but now HIPPA would protect that and that
<v Speaker 3>information would not even go to the school beyond what
<v Speaker 3>the nurse might have. But I don't and if the
<v Speaker 3>principle would have access to it, because it wouldn't be
<v Speaker 3>a physical file, would be a digital one.
<v Speaker 5>So like a in dorm oh sorry, Ben, a dorm
<v Speaker 5>placement at like a So I went to Boston College
<v Speaker 5>just to like give an idea for size, so like
<v Speaker 5>people would just get matched up with fucking anyone. Right,
<v Speaker 5>it was a big, bigish school, but not so big,
<v Speaker 5>but like you had to fill out your you know,
<v Speaker 5>what you wanted. I never lived on campus. This is
<v Speaker 5>just exactly what I know. So you would fill out
<v Speaker 5>what you wanted. Things you would allow for, things you
<v Speaker 5>wouldn't allow for. Right, do you go in a separate
<v Speaker 5>listing that is maybe not necessarily marked, but is a
<v Speaker 5>thing that if you are an incoming freshman who has
<v Speaker 5>had multiple stints, Like, do you have to disclose that
<v Speaker 5>to a college?
<v Speaker 2>You know?
<v Speaker 3>I don't think so they can't you.
<v Speaker 1>Don't have to tell them shit.
<v Speaker 5>So if you have a kid going to college in
<v Speaker 5>the spring semester, you know it's like crazy, man, college
<v Speaker 5>is wild.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>No, I worked with kids who are like going into college,
<v Speaker 1>and it is kind of at my professional discretion to encourage,
<v Speaker 1>but not force, but to encourage like safety planning around
<v Speaker 1>that if that feels important for that kid. But yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I've worked with plenty of kids that were in a
<v Speaker 1>really bad way and they were like, I'm going off
<v Speaker 1>to and out of state college and I would just
<v Speaker 1>be holding my breath that it would all be okay.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've had some experiences and I can, I mean
<v Speaker 3>even speak to some of us having had my own
<v Speaker 3>mental health journey in my life that my mom was
<v Speaker 3>quite concerned about that at college, even though we were
<v Speaker 3>many many years, five years I think passed any issues
<v Speaker 3>at this point, and remembering that good old Eastern Illinois University,
<v Speaker 3>my mom wanting me to meet with the some coordinator
<v Speaker 3>ever and I just like outright refused. But it would
<v Speaker 3>have been at my discussion to close whatever at that point,
<v Speaker 3>and I just like outright refused. I don't need to
<v Speaker 3>do that. I am not in any of those places
<v Speaker 3>where that's relevant information for the school to know, you know,
<v Speaker 3>like what I went through when I was in eighth grade, Like,
<v Speaker 3>they do not need to know that at all, and
<v Speaker 3>did not tell them and had no bearing anything in
<v Speaker 3>my college career. But for kids that might have had
<v Speaker 3>something as dramatic as a suicide attempt in high school,
<v Speaker 3>it's a I mean, it's such a potent risk question.
<v Speaker 3>But once they turn eighteen, which most college freshmen are,
<v Speaker 3>they are now in charge of their own medical records,
<v Speaker 3>regardless of who is paying the bills, and it's on
<v Speaker 3>them if they wish to disclose and ask for accommodations
<v Speaker 3>and apply for that from the school, therefore letting the
<v Speaker 3>school know that they've got issues that perhaps can get
<v Speaker 3>adjusted for. But otherwise I don't think there's anything that
<v Speaker 3>a college can even remotely consider unless the student applies
<v Speaker 3>for aid or help.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the one of the things I just wanted
<v Speaker 2>to point out, Molly, which I don't know if you
<v Speaker 2>know or not, So if this is something you already know,
<v Speaker 2>just tell me to shut up. But one of the
<v Speaker 2>things that we're assessing when a kid is talking about
<v Speaker 2>thinking that they want to kill themselves or they want
<v Speaker 2>to go to sleep and never wake up like whatever.
<v Speaker 2>Whenever they're talking about we, part of what we do
<v Speaker 2>is we assess are these just natural thoughts? Everybody has
<v Speaker 2>thoughts of death. That's totally normal and natural. The difference
<v Speaker 2>of what we when we keep talking about assessing a
<v Speaker 2>kid what you're doing, and what we're checking for is
<v Speaker 2>do they have a plan?
<v Speaker 1>Do they have intent? Do they have access to the plan?
<v Speaker 2>So like let's say, let's say with Brian, he says
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna shoot myself in the head with a gun. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>does he have access to a gun?
<v Speaker 3>Yes?
<v Speaker 1>Does he want to do it? Yes? This kid needs
<v Speaker 1>to go to the hospital.
<v Speaker 2>So that's what so like, that's the difference of versus
<v Speaker 2>a kid coming into my office and saying, Hey, I'm
<v Speaker 2>having some thoughts about not wanting to be here anymore.
<v Speaker 1>I'm starting to get worried.
<v Speaker 2>And then at that point that's when I stopped the
<v Speaker 2>session and say, Okay, I need to ask you some
<v Speaker 2>very specific questions about what you're talking about. Because thinking
<v Speaker 2>about death is normal and natural, but thinking about how
<v Speaker 2>you're going to end your life, what you're going to
<v Speaker 2>do it with, and when you're going to do it.
<v Speaker 2>That's somebody who's at risk.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a few checks you have to mark off.
<v Speaker 5>It's like Clue, you know what I mean, Like the
<v Speaker 5>game Clue, Like it really is that is So that's
<v Speaker 5>very true because uh yeah, I mean I don't even
<v Speaker 5>know if I would know how to answer those questions
<v Speaker 5>honestly if I was a child, but like you know
<v Speaker 5>what I mean, like i'd be like, well, I don't
<v Speaker 5>you know.
<v Speaker 4>So that's very interesting.
<v Speaker 5>This is a lot to consider, and I think, no
<v Speaker 5>matter what, whenever I digest this, I hope someone in
<v Speaker 5>the meantime listening gets to enjoy it, like understand the lesson,
<v Speaker 5>you know what I mean.
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, and I think a lot of times with
<v Speaker 1>a kid that's younger too, you have to kind of
<v Speaker 1>have this conversation with their parents as well in terms
<v Speaker 1>of like do they have access to anything? Could they
<v Speaker 1>have access to anything? Like medications, weapons, stuff like that,
<v Speaker 1>because kids are allowed to say like I wish I
<v Speaker 1>was fucking dead, you know, in my office, and we're
<v Speaker 1>not going to be like, let's, you know, call the
<v Speaker 1>paddy wagon and get you sent out, like it's you
<v Speaker 1>have to have all those things hit Because people also
<v Speaker 1>hang out with suicidal thoughts passively, sometimes for long periods
<v Speaker 1>of time, and they can honest actually feel scared about
<v Speaker 1>that themselves, like it can feel almost like an intrusive thought,
<v Speaker 1>but they don't want to die necessarily, and they aren't
<v Speaker 1>planning to die, and they and they aren't working on it.
<v Speaker 1>And so it is this spectrum of things that I
<v Speaker 1>wish more people knew, because I think they would be
<v Speaker 1>more honest in therapy if they had the safety of
<v Speaker 1>of knowing that it wouldn't get them like shipped off
<v Speaker 1>or possible language.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean I have to establish a pretty like
<v Speaker 5>comfortable tone with any doctor I see. I don't know
<v Speaker 5>if you guys experience that as what like do you
<v Speaker 5>do you find that there's certain patients that need to
<v Speaker 5>establish a baseline with you Whi's like, I'm unprofessional, I'm
<v Speaker 5>gonna swear, I'm gonna say like insane shit, but it's
<v Speaker 5>not normal.
<v Speaker 4>Do you have Do you get that preface a lot?
<v Speaker 3>Uh? Yeah, definitely, it makes space for it, Like it's okay,
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna like if somebody we know, like like I
<v Speaker 3>felt like I just was gonna like fucking murder my
<v Speaker 3>brother and it's we don't take that seriously if it's
<v Speaker 3>not like, you know, you get to know the person.
<v Speaker 3>If they're like, no, I'm gonna fucking kill my brother
<v Speaker 3>the fucking knife. I'm gonna stick it in his fucking juggular,
<v Speaker 3>and Washington like, then you go like, so you got
<v Speaker 3>a knife.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, then you're gonna take it up. But yeah, no,
<v Speaker 2>like I love it. I think we all probably take
<v Speaker 2>pretty well.
<v Speaker 1>We have personalities, right, like pretty like casual approaches with
<v Speaker 1>our clients where they can be goofy and make jokes
<v Speaker 1>and you know, I talk about tiktoks sometimes with clients,
<v Speaker 1>and like, you know, when you work with kids and teenagers,
<v Speaker 1>you also have to yeah, be at their level. You
<v Speaker 1>can't be talking like an uber professional, disconnected robot person cool.
<v Speaker 5>I mean, Brian's not cool anyway. I don't even know
<v Speaker 5>how he like got through this conversation to be honest,
<v Speaker 5>and I imagine he probably did admit it just to
<v Speaker 5>I agree that there's no reason why he would say this,
<v Speaker 5>but I just think he would I admit it.
<v Speaker 3>I think within his character he couldn't not because he
<v Speaker 3>couldn't probably bear with telling the lie, even though he
<v Speaker 3>probably doesn't want to, and I mean he may not
<v Speaker 3>have he's smart enough to know not to, but I
<v Speaker 3>don't know, I think to your point, Molly, I don't
<v Speaker 3>know that within what's appropriate for the character himself, that
<v Speaker 3>he wouldn't have been able to not tell on himself.
<v Speaker 6>He's a craftiness like that, right, which makes his mom's
<v Speaker 6>attitude towards him like also a billion times worse if
<v Speaker 6>the reason why he's in quote unquote trouble is because
<v Speaker 6>he wanted to hurt himself and then she's like haranguing.
<v Speaker 1>Him, which is his real mom, actually his real mom
<v Speaker 1>and his real sister play his mom and sister in
<v Speaker 1>the car and just haranguing him before he gets in
<v Speaker 1>the door. Like really bums me out for him too,
<v Speaker 1>because what messages that sent to Brian, like, even when
<v Speaker 1>I am doing the most desperate thing you can do
<v Speaker 1>as like a cry of help for my parents, They're
<v Speaker 1>still more focused on how I the teeny ways that
<v Speaker 1>I fuck up? Because I think it's also what's so
<v Speaker 1>hard with a kid that is such like a perfectionisty
<v Speaker 1>kid like him is there's no wiggle room. You know,
<v Speaker 1>he's doing so well and yet he feels like he
<v Speaker 1>can't make a single mistake. It's so awful when a
<v Speaker 1>person of any age is in a dynamic where they
<v Speaker 1>get no credit for the ninety nine percent that they
<v Speaker 1>do things well and their parents only focus on the
<v Speaker 1>one mistake or accident or fuck up, and that creates
<v Speaker 1>its own rigidity right where kids will either give up,
<v Speaker 1>which he does kind of do. I mean, that's what
<v Speaker 1>you know, attempting suicide is in some ways and be
<v Speaker 1>like it doesn't matter anyway, or they like have that
<v Speaker 1>really perfectionistic attitude for the rest of their lives, very
<v Speaker 1>type A. Sometimes they can be very high functioning but
<v Speaker 1>internally very miserable, and it really bums me out. Brian
<v Speaker 1>because he's because what's interesting about him too, is that
<v Speaker 1>even though he is the nerd in this scenario, he
<v Speaker 1>is still like takes a lot of chances. He's kind
<v Speaker 1>of mouthy, Like he isn't a meek dork like that.
<v Speaker 1>He's like, even though he is intimidated by the other kids,
<v Speaker 1>he's still like really trying to like get in.
<v Speaker 3>With them, and he tries to break up the fight.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like he he isn't a stereotypical bunched up, quiet nerd.
<v Speaker 5>I mean if Brian has potential with the tech landscape
<v Speaker 5>where it is you get in at Apple very early,
<v Speaker 5>right by the time he graduates, and like kind of
<v Speaker 5>just really maybe build within, do like coding, build out
<v Speaker 5>a bunch of stuff, but eventually become like a microface
<v Speaker 5>of the company, someone who can go and do sales meetings,
<v Speaker 5>presentations without bringing out him Apple, you know what I mean,
<v Speaker 5>skeep jobs, I guess at the time.
<v Speaker 1>And his mom will still finds something to hate about him.
<v Speaker 3>And add the pressure to him that like, if he
<v Speaker 3>makes one mistake, it's not only like going to derail
<v Speaker 3>him temporarily, but it's going to catastrophically cause him to
<v Speaker 3>be unable to meet any of his goals and dreams
<v Speaker 3>that have been pre programmed in him.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, but what if Brian, and we don't know this
<v Speaker 5>because I haven't looked it up, so there's no proof. Otherwise,
<v Speaker 5>what if Brian invented the Apple? What if you invented
<v Speaker 5>the iPod? And what if the whole reason why we
<v Speaker 5>have podcasts is because Brian, like in the movie, grew
<v Speaker 5>up to invent podcasts via inventing the iPod, And that's
<v Speaker 5>why we're all here today.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, all hail Brian.
<v Speaker 4>Then I guess, don't you think I think you could
<v Speaker 4>do it?
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think he could be exactly that guy
<v Speaker 3>wearing a turtleneck and round glasses that would have been
<v Speaker 3>beat up in eighties high school that went on to
<v Speaker 3>invent the thing that made all of everything else for
<v Speaker 3>everyone possible and be the reason why what's his name?
<v Speaker 3>Bill Gates said, be nice to nerds, you'll probably work
<v Speaker 3>for one.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, hopefully he's a you know, I was gonna saypefully,
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't him on Elon Musk, but he doesn't have
<v Speaker 1>the qualities in the background that creates an Elon Musk.
<v Speaker 1>But AnyWho, before we get on that train, let's take
<v Speaker 1>another break here and we'll be back to talk about Alison.
<v Speaker 1>All right, so Alison. Actually, some of the stuff we
<v Speaker 1>were talking about with Brian I feel like apply to Alison.
<v Speaker 1>She is the one that's doing weird, absurd, attention seeking
<v Speaker 1>Emo esque behavior and is being kind of written off
<v Speaker 1>as like the weirdo who must be doing stuff for attention.
<v Speaker 1>You know, she is very quiet, which is also a
<v Speaker 1>way to get attention, to be quiet and silent and unresponsive,
<v Speaker 1>And she's also doing a lot of attention, like as this.
<v Speaker 1>As the movie progresses and she's trying to become part
<v Speaker 1>of the group, you can see that the way that
<v Speaker 1>she is trying to ingratiate herself is while all of
<v Speaker 1>these like odd attention seeking behaviors, like the way that
<v Speaker 1>she gets into the Brian Andrew conversation is admitting that
<v Speaker 1>she stole his wallet, and then the way she tries
<v Speaker 1>to bond with them is dumping out her entire purse
<v Speaker 1>with her tampons and everything and then running away. That
<v Speaker 1>she's someone who does a lot of that like push
<v Speaker 1>pool attention seeking behavior that can be very much written
<v Speaker 1>off as like someone who's trying to establish a quirky personality.
<v Speaker 3>I agree. I think she is using the little attention
<v Speaker 3>seeking moments to fill in that need for her that
<v Speaker 3>she later reveals to us isn't getting met, that her
<v Speaker 3>parents ignore her. But I think we get one clue,
<v Speaker 3>and only one, because I think she remains kind of
<v Speaker 3>a mystery. I don't she never tells us the truth
<v Speaker 3>of why she's there.
<v Speaker 1>She's there actually nothing better to do.
<v Speaker 3>That's not can't possibly no, that's not true, right, Like
<v Speaker 3>there's no way, absolutely, but there was one thing, one
<v Speaker 3>little moment that I caught this time watching that I
<v Speaker 3>don't know if I ever caught before, but it kind
<v Speaker 3>of gave me a clue into her home life. Two things.
<v Speaker 3>One her getting out of the backseat of the car,
<v Speaker 3>despite being probably a senior, means her parents are probably
<v Speaker 3>like overprotective of her. And two that she had the
<v Speaker 3>wherewithal enough to slip in and grab that knife the
<v Speaker 3>second bend or put it down. She just kind of
<v Speaker 3>leaned over and went boop, picked that up. And to me,
<v Speaker 3>that seems like her parents are probably ignoring her because
<v Speaker 3>they're fighting with each other, and she is used to
<v Speaker 3>keeping a hyper awareness of where the dangerous things are
<v Speaker 3>that can elevate a situation, possibly get thrown or use
<v Speaker 3>and like just kind of we're just gonna go ahead
<v Speaker 3>and pick that up, Like it could be a credit
<v Speaker 3>card bill or a check, or could be somebody's booze
<v Speaker 3>or cigarettes or something that if that's causing a fight,
<v Speaker 3>she has to wherewithal just going and we're just gonna
<v Speaker 3>pick that up and no one will notice what she's
<v Speaker 3>doing because they're so and throw in their own shit.
<v Speaker 3>And that was a read I got espe I've seen
<v Speaker 3>this movie many times. Catching that kind of piqued my
<v Speaker 3>interest a little bit.
<v Speaker 5>M well, like low key, is it too early to say?
<v Speaker 5>I when I was watching this, I was thinking, she's
<v Speaker 5>a klepto dog.
<v Speaker 3>Maybe feels like it.
<v Speaker 4>Was more okay, we have to die. You're going to
<v Speaker 4>diagnose some.
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, no, go ahead No.
<v Speaker 4>I was just gonnas no, you're right.
<v Speaker 5>I just was gonna say, that's like, uh, literally, I
<v Speaker 5>was thinking, with she's so uh her behavior, so I
<v Speaker 5>want to know more about that.
<v Speaker 4>You know what happened to when on a rider?
<v Speaker 2>Oh?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is interesting. I feel like if she is
<v Speaker 1>being ignored at home, she may be very resourceful and
<v Speaker 1>maybe like taking the wallet and taking the knife and
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. It could be her trying to be
<v Speaker 1>resourceful or just like she has to take care of
<v Speaker 1>herself so she gets where she can and or I
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of it just comes back to attention seeking.
<v Speaker 1>And I think what I want to differentiate when I
<v Speaker 1>say attention seeking isn't in this kind of like shitty
<v Speaker 1>judgmental way that we talk about in mainstream culture where
<v Speaker 1>it's this very like dismissive thing that it's not really
<v Speaker 1>a big deal, you're just like obnoxious and immature. We
<v Speaker 1>all need attention, especially from our parents, especially as we
<v Speaker 1>are growing up. Like attention isn't a bad thing. Needing attention,
<v Speaker 1>seeking attention is a normal part of being a human being.
<v Speaker 1>And when you don't get it where you need it,
<v Speaker 1>which is from your parents, you will attempt to get
<v Speaker 1>it in other ways. And her doing all this bizarro
<v Speaker 1>off putting shit, like the lying, the making outrageous claims.
<v Speaker 1>I got very nervous when she started talking about her shrink,
<v Speaker 1>and I was worried that that was going to be
<v Speaker 1>the truth when she was talking about that stuff, because
<v Speaker 1>that would be very eightiesyuse we.
<v Speaker 4>Didn't get to see that on tea anti.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Probably not?
<v Speaker 5>No, definitely not, Which is so crazy that that's how
<v Speaker 5>you guys like I didn't.
<v Speaker 1>Know they smoked weed in this movie.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know they smoked weed.
<v Speaker 1>Them being stoned makes everything make so much more sense
<v Speaker 1>in terms of the turn the movie takes with them
<v Speaker 1>being more vulnerable and goofy and interactive with each other,
<v Speaker 1>of course because they're stoned.
<v Speaker 5>And I literally I cannot believe that this because I
<v Speaker 5>think that I when I would watch it if it
<v Speaker 5>was because it was always on. If you're passively on,
<v Speaker 5>I would always think like, oh, well, like, I know
<v Speaker 5>there's I never thought about the fact that there's some
<v Speaker 5>people who didn't know what was going on with them. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I just thought that they maybe got cabin fever and
<v Speaker 1>were acting goofy montage style, you know how those movies
<v Speaker 1>like a montage where everyone starts.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I thought it was just like a weird like
<v Speaker 2>a weird flex in the movie that just didn't really
<v Speaker 2>make any sense.
<v Speaker 4>So did you think like they.
<v Speaker 2>No, I hadn't know anything, because they wouldn't have shown
<v Speaker 2>any of that, So I had no I had no
<v Speaker 2>idea that that's what they did, and again puts so
<v Speaker 2>much more context into the film.
<v Speaker 5>But did you feel like now seeing it today you
<v Speaker 5>felt like it was kind of insane? Did you feel
<v Speaker 5>a little insane watching it.
<v Speaker 1>In what way?
<v Speaker 5>In the way that like I can't like, oh, this
<v Speaker 5>movie makes a lot more sense.
<v Speaker 2>Yes. We were yelling at the TV and then I
<v Speaker 2>watched it together on Monday and we were screaming because
<v Speaker 2>we were like, oh, of course, because I think on
<v Speaker 2>TV it was like they got the weed out of
<v Speaker 2>Bender's locker. He has the confrontation with the principal where
<v Speaker 2>he is playing basketball or pretending to play basketball, and
<v Speaker 2>then I feel like it hard cuts to the scene
<v Speaker 2>where what's his nuts Andrew is like dancing, yes, and
<v Speaker 2>and they're like chit chatting, but there's no smoke or smoking,
<v Speaker 2>and so it just was like they've finally reached the
<v Speaker 2>edge where they were like, fine.
<v Speaker 1>We'll just hang out because we're so fucking bored. Going
<v Speaker 1>back to Alison, though, I think what I want people
<v Speaker 1>to take from this is what we were saying before,
<v Speaker 1>is that when a kid like you, I think we
<v Speaker 1>were all kind of saying this in some way, but
<v Speaker 1>when a kid is acting like that, or when a
<v Speaker 1>person's acting like that, people who are mentally well and
<v Speaker 1>stable don't do stuff like that. They don't steal shit
<v Speaker 1>and say bonker stuff and act out and are off
<v Speaker 1>putting like that. When someone's doing all that stuff, something
<v Speaker 1>is going on. And even if they are lying about
<v Speaker 1>sleeping with their therapist or about wanting to die or something,
<v Speaker 1>people who aren't having a fine time in life aren't
<v Speaker 1>saying stuff like that, And so that alone, like if
<v Speaker 1>they're smoke there's fire like that alone is something to
<v Speaker 1>take seriously, and she is someone to take seriously even
<v Speaker 1>if everything she's saying on face value is bullshit.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Absolutely, And you know the stealing what the question
<v Speaker 3>I ask about kind of like was that because she's
<v Speaker 3>used to doing that is only one possible question like that.
<v Speaker 3>The other thing is like, is she stealing to force interactions?
<v Speaker 3>Because if she steals somebody's shit and then has the
<v Speaker 3>opportunity to get an interaction out of them by like
<v Speaker 3>producing it like she did with the wallet, it's like
<v Speaker 3>social skills exactly, Like it's a it's a forced interaction
<v Speaker 3>she created because now that person has to talk to
<v Speaker 3>her and pay attention to her and interpret her in
<v Speaker 3>order to get their shit back. M And that could
<v Speaker 3>have been it too. I mean for the wallet, that
<v Speaker 3>was certainly it. I don't know about the knife, but
<v Speaker 3>the idea that people don't randomly make snow out of
<v Speaker 3>their dan drift.
<v Speaker 1>I can't even watch that part.
<v Speaker 3>And then like laugh and smile about like obviously drawing
<v Speaker 3>attention to the fact that you're being really showy about it.
<v Speaker 3>Of like, loo, what I can do.
<v Speaker 1>I think everything she's doing is very big and performative,
<v Speaker 1>like the one she makes the sandwich. She wants people
<v Speaker 1>to notice how weird she's being.
<v Speaker 3>She does, absolutely, and someone who's getting ignored and isn't
<v Speaker 3>getting their need met will resort to a higher intensity,
<v Speaker 3>higher risk behavior to get that need met. See cheating
<v Speaker 3>in relationships. See stealing when out of food and hungry
<v Speaker 3>and broke. See begging on the street corner when you
<v Speaker 3>don't have any money.
<v Speaker 4>Like, I love this, more of that, Like, explain this more.
<v Speaker 3>Basically, the more risks are, the more you have to
<v Speaker 3>try harder to get your basic needs met like food, shelter, clothing, affection, love,
<v Speaker 3>the more risks you are willing to take to get
<v Speaker 3>them met.
<v Speaker 4>Well, like, it is crazy how it started.
<v Speaker 5>Could to really start with you know, captain crunch and
<v Speaker 5>pixie sticks and a disruptive lunchroom meal. I mean, she
<v Speaker 5>just is almost too beautiful for this behavior. I have
<v Speaker 5>to say, Well, I never buy her costume.
<v Speaker 1>What's unfortunate for her for this reason you're bringing up,
<v Speaker 1>is that she is ripe to be groomed and taken
<v Speaker 1>advantage of. Like the first attractive got God blessed it's Andrew.
<v Speaker 1>If that ends up going somewhere, But I don't know
<v Speaker 1>if that would go anywhere. But the first she's the
<v Speaker 1>kind of girl that I worked with who some twenty
<v Speaker 1>five year old fucking creep who is not doing anything
<v Speaker 1>with their life would find her and love bomb her,
<v Speaker 1>and she would do anything they wanted, and she would
<v Speaker 1>put up with a lot of bullshit and maybe even
<v Speaker 1>abuse and stuff because she's finally getting that need met.
<v Speaker 1>And I think people who have who have never really
<v Speaker 1>known what that's like can't can struggle to understand. It's
<v Speaker 1>very like why wouldn't they leave? Like why would they
<v Speaker 1>date someone like that? Why would they do crazy stuff
<v Speaker 1>like that? Like people who ask those questions, I assume
<v Speaker 1>they just don't know what it's like to be in
<v Speaker 1>such like a desperate, scarce place with a basic human need.
<v Speaker 1>And that's where I would feel very nervous for Allison,
<v Speaker 1>because she is also conventionally attractive when she is made over,
<v Speaker 1>even though I think she's cute no matter what, but yeah.
<v Speaker 4>She's so.
<v Speaker 5>It's just, honestly, can we get a diagnosis for guys
<v Speaker 5>like not being able to see like, yeah, babe, she
<v Speaker 5>has beautiful cheek bone. She just has like also a
<v Speaker 5>great shaggy do, like what do you want me to
<v Speaker 5>say she's I.
<v Speaker 1>Mean, we could get into a whole full conversation about
<v Speaker 1>the male gaze. Okay, we're already burning time. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, yes, talk about a talk about an
<v Speaker 1>athlete who's like, I'm bigger, Hacky Sack, I'm bigger than
<v Speaker 1>my athletics.
<v Speaker 3>Dad, right, Which was fun. Fact, I thought that's the
<v Speaker 3>movie we were doing when we did the one Drew
<v Speaker 3>very More that you were talking about, Like the name
<v Speaker 3>just left my brain, but I thought that's what. Yes,
<v Speaker 3>I watched that movie for like ten minutes. Is like
<v Speaker 3>texting a hand and Brittany like, why the fuck are
<v Speaker 3>we doing? I hate all of this and they're like,
<v Speaker 3>what fucking movie are you watching with Freddy Print's right now?
<v Speaker 3>Like we're not doing that?
<v Speaker 1>Oh fuck yeah, Transformation.
<v Speaker 3>No, I know.
<v Speaker 4>That's why I relate.
<v Speaker 5>One of the many reasons I relate to you because
<v Speaker 5>that anecdote stayed in the podcast, and I have done
<v Speaker 5>that for my lifetime podcasts before, where I've gotten like
<v Speaker 5>fifteen minutes into a Meredith Axter Bernie movie.
<v Speaker 4>I felt for you.
<v Speaker 5>I do think that you're a you know, a podcasting
<v Speaker 5>secret secret sibling of mine that I didn't know about.
<v Speaker 3>I feel that way.
<v Speaker 4>About all of you, though, let's let's do this all
<v Speaker 4>the time.
<v Speaker 1>Does anyone have anything else they want to say specifically
<v Speaker 1>about Alison? She's such an interesting character to me.
<v Speaker 3>I think the only thing I want to say about
<v Speaker 3>her other than I think all these insights are brilliant,
<v Speaker 3>is that I wish we had gotten whatever I assume
<v Speaker 3>got left on the cutting room floor of her character
<v Speaker 3>that got lost.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and also like the sharp turn of like her
<v Speaker 1>kissing Andrew at the end, Yeah, that's felt very sudden. Yeah, well, I.
<v Speaker 3>Mean I think that leads to your point though, that.
<v Speaker 1>You true, she's going to print him on imprint on
<v Speaker 1>him like a baby duck.
<v Speaker 3>There you go exactly that, like he noticed her and
<v Speaker 3>then like he noticed her hard, and like when she
<v Speaker 3>walked out with her made up, he was like, oh god.
<v Speaker 1>I'm envisioning now, I'm envisioning an awful scenario. This is
<v Speaker 1>an awful scenario where you have the white Night Savior,
<v Speaker 1>super empathetic, emotionally intelligent person Hannah's nodding, and then the
<v Speaker 1>person who is a wreck and that is a terrible
<v Speaker 1>combination that happens all the time where he's going to
<v Speaker 1>try to save her, save her savor, and she's gonna
<v Speaker 1>energy vampire energy vampire.
<v Speaker 2>No.
<v Speaker 4>I think they're going to be in a really good relationship.
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking forward to the FANFICKI right.
<v Speaker 4>I know, I'm just saying. I'm just saying that if anyone.
<v Speaker 5>Out there is feeling helpless at the end of this,
<v Speaker 5>I just want to say that I do think that
<v Speaker 5>they probably date until freshman year, and then she maybe
<v Speaker 5>moves abroad and then but they're still best friends.
<v Speaker 2>You know.
<v Speaker 1>I would hope so, I mean, I think he would.
<v Speaker 1>I think he would treat her well, but I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if it would be healthy long term. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>if anyone's.
<v Speaker 5>Gonna healthy foundation for her versus her abandonment, maybe Andrew
<v Speaker 5>will be a nice foundation for her. Coming from such
<v Speaker 5>a place of loneliness, I.
<v Speaker 1>Feel well, she's someone where What can be helpful about
<v Speaker 1>therapy is constructing a good goodbye. So when I've worked
<v Speaker 1>with kids who've had to leave our program and they
<v Speaker 1>have they're on abandonment rejection stuff, or they have to
<v Speaker 1>terminate with me for some reason, it gives you an
<v Speaker 1>opportunity to have a good goodbye that's not grounded and
<v Speaker 1>feeling like abandoned or rejected, and that can be why
<v Speaker 1>it's very any therapist listening, it's very good to have
<v Speaker 1>like a solid termination plan. You just can't end a
<v Speaker 1>relationship with a client the way that you would with
<v Speaker 1>like a general practitioner or something like. You have to
<v Speaker 1>be thoughtful about how you wrap things up, especially with
<v Speaker 1>the case like her, where you'd want it to be
<v Speaker 1>very slow and steady and make sure that she doesn't
<v Speaker 1>take it personal as much as possible.
<v Speaker 3>Right, because you know, the ground for this is ripe
<v Speaker 3>With Andrew is let's assume going to get a scholarship
<v Speaker 3>and maybe he's going to go to Nebraska or Iowa
<v Speaker 3>or Minnesota somewhere far away for college. And we don't
<v Speaker 3>even know what the age gap is between it. Maybe
<v Speaker 3>he leaves a year before her.
<v Speaker 1>And we're assuming they're all in the same grade.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and maybe they are, maybe they aren't, and they
<v Speaker 3>I think they would have really hard time with the breakup.
<v Speaker 3>If Andrew is going to go away to college, he
<v Speaker 3>might struggle to like not go, or he has to go.
<v Speaker 3>And then if she's imprinted on him and you know
<v Speaker 3>it's getting her needs met and wants to stay she
<v Speaker 3>is a substantial risk to turn up and demonstrate some
<v Speaker 3>really desperate behaviors, And not that she necessarily would, but
<v Speaker 3>people that carry that profile certainly can end up in
<v Speaker 3>that space.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And part of what I was thinking about Allison
<v Speaker 2>is that even if going along with the premise of
<v Speaker 2>her and Andrew are together, even if Andrew is kind
<v Speaker 2>and sweet and supportive and stable, that's not what her
<v Speaker 2>experience has been like Nope, So it to be really
<v Speaker 2>hard for her to just accept that, like that that's
<v Speaker 2>true and that she can believe it and that he's
<v Speaker 2>going to stay around owned like I'm But with therapy,
<v Speaker 2>she'll be able to talk about the relationship dynamic, and
<v Speaker 2>she'll be able to bring up like why am I
<v Speaker 2>feeling like I'm just mad at him sometimes? Or I
<v Speaker 2>feel like I don't want to talk to him sometimes
<v Speaker 2>and he's just so nice, and like I don't know
<v Speaker 2>what to do, like there are Because of the way
<v Speaker 2>that she has seen relationships go and because of the
<v Speaker 2>way that she has been treated, it's going to be
<v Speaker 2>hard for her to lean into Andrew and lean into
<v Speaker 2>the kindness and the niceness to trust him. That's going
<v Speaker 2>to be really hard for her. So I don't know, like,
<v Speaker 2>I think.
<v Speaker 1>She'd probably tests the shit out of him. I agreed, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and then it would and because.
<v Speaker 2>That's the and that would be the only way that
<v Speaker 2>she would feel like she can trust him is by
<v Speaker 2>putting him through these these tests that help her know
<v Speaker 2>that he really isn't going to leave.
<v Speaker 4>Which you're so smart, like that's so true.
<v Speaker 3>Things.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we'll take another break here and we'll be
<v Speaker 1>right back. So this episode has been kind of a
<v Speaker 1>long one, which is not fine. Which is fine, But
<v Speaker 1>with treatment, We've talked about a lot of treatments here
<v Speaker 1>and there with these characters. Is there anything I'm going
<v Speaker 1>to kind of chop this up a little bit? Is
<v Speaker 1>there anything more we want to say about any specific
<v Speaker 1>character in terms of treatment.
<v Speaker 2>I think the only thing I want to point out,
<v Speaker 2>and I don't have to, you know, talk about it
<v Speaker 2>for ten minutes or anything, but is that I think
<v Speaker 2>with Claire, I think that she would have to do
<v Speaker 2>family therapy. I think family therapy is one of the
<v Speaker 2>ways that she can find her own role in the
<v Speaker 2>family and find a way for her to be out
<v Speaker 2>of the trap of her parents' marriage. So I think
<v Speaker 2>that she would need to find family therapy. That's the
<v Speaker 2>only thing that I was going to talk about in treatment, really,
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think we really talked about treatment with Claire.
<v Speaker 1>That's a good point. Yeah, I think the only thing
<v Speaker 1>else i'd end with Bender. I've worked a lot of
<v Speaker 1>KI kids that are Bender coded, that come from family
<v Speaker 1>environments where the families aren't workable, and that situation is
<v Speaker 1>not really going to change because their treatment resistant, all
<v Speaker 1>YadA YadA, And I think with him, kind of what
<v Speaker 1>you guys were referencing, I think maybe it was you
<v Speaker 1>Molly referencing early about being good at shop is. I
<v Speaker 1>think what would be really important for him is to
<v Speaker 1>find something that he feels proud of and confident in.
<v Speaker 1>And it makes me think of when I worked at
<v Speaker 1>one of my first PHPs, which was more with kids
<v Speaker 1>like Bender. One of the therapists which was so sweet,
<v Speaker 1>she had her husband come in who was a graphic designer,
<v Speaker 1>like an artist professionally, and he did like weekly free
<v Speaker 1>tutoring with this one kid who was really really creatively
<v Speaker 1>talented and got no home support to try to build
<v Speaker 1>up his confidence in that and to work him into
<v Speaker 1>something real and tangible that he can feel proud of
<v Speaker 1>that he can touch, that he can you know, show
<v Speaker 1>that he can feel, and then I think with him
<v Speaker 1>to make it something that he can create. Independence, because
<v Speaker 1>with a kid like Bender, you're I'm with kids like that,
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to get them out of their house as
<v Speaker 1>soon as they can, so it becomes less about making
<v Speaker 1>your home life work and more about getting the fuck
<v Speaker 1>out of there as soon as you can and building
<v Speaker 1>your own support system and your own resources and your
<v Speaker 1>own way to live. And with some kids, that is college,
<v Speaker 1>like if you can get a Scott. When I work
<v Speaker 1>with foster kids, because they would sometimes get financial aid
<v Speaker 1>and stuff because of their situation, I'd be like, let's
<v Speaker 1>get out of here and into college, or like let's
<v Speaker 1>get into a trade or a skill, because, like I said,
<v Speaker 1>that also builds up confidence that he he desperately needs confidence.
<v Speaker 1>You know, all that swagger is fake stuff. He needs
<v Speaker 1>to feel like he's good at something to keep him
<v Speaker 1>going in life and to keep him from recreating the
<v Speaker 1>cycle with his own family if he has one one day.
<v Speaker 1>So that's all I wanted to say about Bender.
<v Speaker 3>And I love that. I think it's it's really important.
<v Speaker 3>I think sometimes the hardest thing in therapy is helping
<v Speaker 3>people work against those ingrained instincts, like to get parent
<v Speaker 3>approval and realize that your only chance of success is
<v Speaker 3>going somewhere else. You have to leave. You cannot be
<v Speaker 3>successful here, Like John, you will never win. You can
<v Speaker 3>never win. You can never be good enough for your
<v Speaker 3>dad because he is miserable to be pleased with you.
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't want to be pleased with anything. And it's
<v Speaker 3>it's it's impossible, and it's not about you. You gotta
<v Speaker 3>let go. I think that it would be the most
<v Speaker 3>powerful thing with the characters I look at like I'm
<v Speaker 3>looking at the kids and thinking about who I'd want
<v Speaker 3>to treat, and honestly, the person I think needs the
<v Speaker 3>most therapy help is the principle.
<v Speaker 1>You always pick the most random person you like. Surprise,
<v Speaker 1>please please, please go on, pop off King.
<v Speaker 3>I think the person we see who gets the least development,
<v Speaker 3>the least work, the least growth, is the principle, and
<v Speaker 3>he's the one who's in the position to cause the
<v Speaker 3>most harm. And if he continues to stay in this
<v Speaker 3>miserable place where he's resenting other people's ability to actualize
<v Speaker 3>and still have that chance in front of them, he's
<v Speaker 3>likely to try to use the bull with horns approach
<v Speaker 3>and assert his middle age midlife crisis bullshit onto other
<v Speaker 3>teenage boys who might still pay having some kind of
<v Speaker 3>fire left in them to fight against the world and
<v Speaker 3>break the molds they need to grow into whoever they're
<v Speaker 3>going to be. Most of the people that make it
<v Speaker 3>in this world don't do it by following a conventional path.
<v Speaker 3>They do it by having the courage enough to just say,
<v Speaker 3>fuck it, I'm going to do it. And if teachers
<v Speaker 3>crush that out of kids without eiding them properly, of like, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>it's okay to have your own ideas to do things
<v Speaker 3>your own way, but not to you can't crush out
<v Speaker 3>of them, like the only way you'll be successful is
<v Speaker 3>my way, and that you'll have to submit to authority,
<v Speaker 3>Like you need to have a little bit of healthy
<v Speaker 3>uh you know, uh neutrality, you know, be a little
<v Speaker 3>neutral good. I will do good, but not necessarily going
<v Speaker 3>to follow the rules you put in front, because who
<v Speaker 3>says your rules are just like that little bit of
<v Speaker 3>question that I think we see Fox News telling our
<v Speaker 3>grandparents to resent in kids when they question things like
<v Speaker 3>critical race theory, for example that people love to be
<v Speaker 3>like well, alcoso pausewords, shouldn't be teaching people that shit
<v Speaker 3>like like hold on, all of us were taught a
<v Speaker 3>version of like whitewashed ass history that didn't acknowledge the
<v Speaker 3>facts that some horrible shit was done by our country,
<v Speaker 3>Like that's messed up, and maybe we should teach the
<v Speaker 3>whole truth that this teacher is totally that person that's
<v Speaker 3>watching Fox News in their eighties and nineties now going like, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's right. These damn kids everybody running in this country
<v Speaker 3>and they don't know what the fuck they're doing. And
<v Speaker 3>it maybe if somebody could have helped him along and
<v Speaker 3>been like, hey, why don't you tell me what's going
<v Speaker 3>on here with you? What didn't happen for you? What's
<v Speaker 3>making you so angry and so resentful? What do we
<v Speaker 3>need to rediscover in you? Like these kids got to
<v Speaker 3>do when okay, they got high to do it, but
<v Speaker 3>watching like Andrew do cartwheels and like sing and like
<v Speaker 3>jam out and like loosen up it, can you imagine
<v Speaker 3>what the principle be like if somebody helped him rediscover
<v Speaker 3>the ability to play and if you know, like he
<v Speaker 3>could teach kids from that standpoint of like, Okay, hey, like, look,
<v Speaker 3>there's rules in life, like you got to pay your bills,
<v Speaker 3>you got to.
<v Speaker 1>Give them to an improv for anxiety class.
<v Speaker 3>I mean maybe, but not, you know, not come at
<v Speaker 3>it from this standpoint of hatefully crushing everybody into the
<v Speaker 3>same soul crushing reality he has. I think i'd want
<v Speaker 3>to work with him on that that. Like, there are
<v Speaker 3>lots of routes to success in this world, and most
<v Speaker 3>of them come from having the freedom to be authentically
<v Speaker 3>yourself and do the things that make you you, while
<v Speaker 3>also having a strategic mind to apply them in a
<v Speaker 3>way that is equitable. And I would love to see
<v Speaker 3>him in therapy kind of re examine what's keeping him
<v Speaker 3>stuck so that he doesn't project that onto other people's
<v Speaker 3>realities and cause so much harm.
<v Speaker 1>All right, Mollie, is there anything Morning that you want
<v Speaker 1>to add to this as a writer or as a
<v Speaker 1>mental health participant, if you want to think about like that.
<v Speaker 4>I think we're all their dad needs to go to therapy.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I'm sure all of their parents need to go
<v Speaker 1>to therapy, you know.
<v Speaker 5>But like I feel, he's at the very he's at
<v Speaker 5>the precipice of what could be a very dark, uh
<v Speaker 5>psychological future for him with the exploitation of women. I
<v Speaker 5>feel like, you know, this could go to like the
<v Speaker 5>times like him going to Chicago for a business dinner
<v Speaker 5>and then he's hiring like you know, a lady of
<v Speaker 5>the night to like sit with him and he's gonna tell.
<v Speaker 4>Her stories or whatever.
<v Speaker 5>I feel like where this could go from there as
<v Speaker 5>he either goes to therapy or it's going to get
<v Speaker 5>to a very dark place, like possibly even some form
<v Speaker 5>of what would legally be considered trafficking. Now, Like I
<v Speaker 5>think if he went to therapy, he could have like
<v Speaker 5>I think that it would be effective on someone like
<v Speaker 5>him quick if it was at the right moment, you.
<v Speaker 4>Know what I mean.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, not letting him become a Richard gear No, I mean.
<v Speaker 4>He's not going to be a good guy.
<v Speaker 5>I just mean like slightly less, like you know, like
<v Speaker 5>maybe if he had like some coping mechanisms into how
<v Speaker 5>like how to communicate with his wife. I just want
<v Speaker 5>to I'd say that I want to blame him. I
<v Speaker 5>just really do think he's the problem.
<v Speaker 1>I definitely think he needs to figure out like what
<v Speaker 1>he thinks his dynamic with Clara's and get that the
<v Speaker 1>fuck figured out, Yeah, because that's dark to me. All right, Well,
<v Speaker 1>we'll take our final break here and be back with
<v Speaker 1>final thoughts. So we were thinking with final thoughts that
<v Speaker 1>it could be fun if we each self identified as
<v Speaker 1>one of the breakfast Club. I can be vulnerable and
<v Speaker 1>go first. I hate to admit this, but I would
<v Speaker 1>be a Brian. And this is why when I was
<v Speaker 1>in seventh grade, I got a lunch attention and I
<v Speaker 1>cried so hard in class in front of my peers
<v Speaker 1>about getting in trouble for lunch attention that my teacher
<v Speaker 1>ripped it up and said, you've been punished enough. And
<v Speaker 1>I did not have to go through with the lunch
<v Speaker 1>detention because he felt such pity for me because of
<v Speaker 1>the insane reaction I had. Because of the pressure, I
<v Speaker 1>felt like I could not get in trouble. And that's
<v Speaker 1>still something I'm working on as an adult, of this
<v Speaker 1>idea that like, I can't get in trouble. And so
<v Speaker 1>unfortunately I am a Brian in that if I got
<v Speaker 1>an f and shop, I don't know if it would
<v Speaker 1>get to the dark level it got with him, but
<v Speaker 1>I would probably have some sort of like mental breakdown
<v Speaker 1>that would be very intense. So unfortunately I am a
<v Speaker 1>Brian and anyway, with how I feel about this movie,
<v Speaker 1>though I really like this movie. I like it more
<v Speaker 1>now that I understand the full context of it, and
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a movie that I would definitely rewatch.
<v Speaker 1>I think some stuff is obviously problematic. I mean, the
<v Speaker 1>way that Bender treats Claire the whole movie is would
<v Speaker 1>not fly in today's society. He's basically like sexually harassing her, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and put his head up her skirt like he does
<v Speaker 1>really disgusting stuff that it sucks that. The message in
<v Speaker 1>the movie is that he gets here in the end,
<v Speaker 1>like you treat a girl like this and you talk
<v Speaker 1>about her body and her virginity and all that stuff,
<v Speaker 1>and then she likes you. That very like if he's
<v Speaker 1>mean to you, he likes you. So I don't love
<v Speaker 1>all that part. And I think actually Molly Ringwald wrote
<v Speaker 1>of Me Too, like when Me Too was happening, she
<v Speaker 1>kind of wrote an essay about rewatching Breakfast Club with
<v Speaker 1>her ten year old daughter and how problematic that dynamic
<v Speaker 1>was and how it wouldn't fly today. So other than
<v Speaker 1>that and the use of like gay slurs and stuff,
<v Speaker 1>I think this movie actually is kind of timeless and
<v Speaker 1>how it discusses teenagers, it's like very I can see
<v Speaker 1>where this movie might have like Bluke blown kid's minds
<v Speaker 1>when they saw it in terms of like feeling really seen.
<v Speaker 1>It's such a for how like limited demographically it is,
<v Speaker 1>it's still such a rich demonstration of like the teenage
<v Speaker 1>psyche and treats teenagers seriously and they're feeling seriously, which
<v Speaker 1>I always appreciate. So that's my final thoughts, Hannah, do
<v Speaker 1>you want to go next?
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, it's a tricky question for me, uh because
<v Speaker 2>my home life was more like Benders and my but
<v Speaker 2>my presentation.
<v Speaker 1>At school was like Claire.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I was also really like a like a
<v Speaker 2>people pleaser is really is really what it was, and
<v Speaker 2>just like masking all the crazy shit that I was
<v Speaker 2>parenting at home.
<v Speaker 1>So so I don't know.
<v Speaker 2>So I kind of feel like it makes sense to
<v Speaker 2>say Claire in some ways, and it also makes sense
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't present the way that Bender presents. I
<v Speaker 2>presented the way that Claire presents. Yeah, I think, you know,
<v Speaker 2>barring the things that Brittany already brought up about the film,
<v Speaker 2>I think it's I think it's a good film. I
<v Speaker 2>think it shows I think it does something with teenagers
<v Speaker 2>that help show the depth of their feeling that I
<v Speaker 2>don't I still don't think that adults.
<v Speaker 3>Take seriously mm hmm.
<v Speaker 2>That's really unfortunate, and I think that's one of the
<v Speaker 2>things that it does really well. And I'm probably gonna
<v Speaker 2>watch it again after us just talking about it and
<v Speaker 2>thinking about all the things we've been talking about, I'll
<v Speaker 2>probably watch it again to just kind of like see
<v Speaker 2>what it feels like after after talking about all these
<v Speaker 2>different aspects of the film. So I'll definitely watch it again.
<v Speaker 1>All right, Molly, do you mind going next?
<v Speaker 4>I would say.
<v Speaker 5>At my core, I am a Brian. I would say
<v Speaker 5>that my anxieties were less so anchored to academics. I
<v Speaker 5>just knew that wasn't my strong suit. But I was
<v Speaker 5>very much like living in self torture mode or like
<v Speaker 5>maybe like contain torture mode, very really religious, like very
<v Speaker 5>uh like like Irish Catholic, not like crazy, but just
<v Speaker 5>like it all felt very oppressive, and I was very
<v Speaker 5>much a rule follower and like couldn't even get away
<v Speaker 5>with anything. But then I would say, like a one
<v Speaker 5>quarter shell Allison, maybe a little bit maybe even like
<v Speaker 5>a little bit of a third because I wasn't like
<v Speaker 5>a liar, but I was a creative kid. Like I
<v Speaker 5>was just someone who's obviously kind of like telling stories.
<v Speaker 5>It's never really lying or fabricating anything. I just was always,
<v Speaker 5>you know, I just fucking yapped. And so I really
<v Speaker 5>enjoyed that when she was kind of like really finally
<v Speaker 5>having her moments, that she just dialed in on some
<v Speaker 5>of the most weird ass shit she could, and she
<v Speaker 5>really took her moment for the moments that she had.
<v Speaker 4>You know, if she wasn't, she was great.
<v Speaker 2>Loved it all right, So you're like a Brian Moon
<v Speaker 2>Alison Rising probably okay, And then any final thoughts about
<v Speaker 2>the movie from like a writing standpoint or just enjoying
<v Speaker 2>the movie standpoint, No.
<v Speaker 4>I just think it's like that.
<v Speaker 5>I just think it's such a cool, clean, crisp movie.
<v Speaker 4>It really is.
<v Speaker 5>It's like, if you have ever wanted to like write
<v Speaker 5>a script, I would say that this is like the
<v Speaker 5>most approachable movie to watch, and I think a very
<v Speaker 5>findable script. And I would really recommend watching this movie
<v Speaker 5>with a script because there's something also very satisfying about
<v Speaker 5>like just as a viewer, like as an adult viewer
<v Speaker 5>watching this movie, there's something so satisfying about the way
<v Speaker 5>these cares play out and the way that there's subtle
<v Speaker 5>nuances and seeing how much performance affects things.
<v Speaker 4>It's really, uh, it's really a great movie.
<v Speaker 5>And I would say a good intro for beginners and
<v Speaker 5>people who want to start to learn how to write movies.
<v Speaker 5>Even if you feel like you've seen The Breakfast Club
<v Speaker 5>a million times, like, just watch it and read the
<v Speaker 5>script and that'll make you think, well.
<v Speaker 3>Very cool, all right, ben Ah, So I am probably
<v Speaker 3>to no one's best surprised Andrew would be the characters
<v Speaker 3>like me. Yeah, that probably shouldn't surprise anybody. Definitely not, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I didn't think so. I was never a team captain
<v Speaker 3>of anything, but definitely was an athletic kid, and like
<v Speaker 3>I am now, I'm a jack of all trades type.
<v Speaker 3>I can pretty much do a lot of things to
<v Speaker 3>a acceptable level, generally above replacement. But unlike Andrew, though
<v Speaker 3>I was never going to be a state wrestler, like
<v Speaker 3>I was never that fletically gift that I had enough
<v Speaker 3>athletic skill to make the team to play to do things,
<v Speaker 3>but I'm not getting a scholarship anywhere for that. My
<v Speaker 3>talent was probably more in performance than I ever gave
<v Speaker 3>myself space to acknowledge because of well, not my dad's type.
<v Speaker 3>My dad is more of a Brian. He's a professor
<v Speaker 3>that went to Stanford. I mean, my dad's a definite Brian,
<v Speaker 3>and my mom kind of too, So my family life
<v Speaker 3>might have been a little more like his without the
<v Speaker 3>intense pressure. I was kind of like the rare gem.
<v Speaker 3>Nobody else in my family's an athlete like I am.
<v Speaker 3>Has its own issues, right, but I think I identified more
<v Speaker 3>with his story, Like there were points in time in
<v Speaker 3>my life where I had just absurd bullying behavior either
<v Speaker 3>done to me or did it, and I definitely carried
<v Speaker 3>some deep shame and regret about some of those choices
<v Speaker 3>that I made, and like looking back and recognizing I
<v Speaker 3>would never do that to anybody now. But then like
<v Speaker 3>those spontaneous moments of like trying to grapple with what
<v Speaker 3>masculinity even is, or how to find my place or
<v Speaker 3>how to stand out and not be a target, and
<v Speaker 3>realizing like, oh, well, I guess I have to assert
<v Speaker 3>donoinance to have any because that's what's been done to me,
<v Speaker 3>and how fucked up that is, and how much that
<v Speaker 3>masterclass in writing really gave so much depth to that character.
<v Speaker 3>Where I think much like Andrew, I am so much
<v Speaker 3>more like now the things that I've done since high
<v Speaker 3>school and since active sports playing. I did a sketch
<v Speaker 3>comedy troupe where I did become the vice president of that.
<v Speaker 3>And I've been in bands for twelve years or fifteen years,
<v Speaker 3>and I've played with touring acts, like I've risen to
<v Speaker 3>some levels and done some things that you know, nobody
<v Speaker 3>would have thought of starting offensive and defensive lineman on
<v Speaker 3>the football team, was going to do mm hmm, like
<v Speaker 3>I probably should have been with the theater kids, but
<v Speaker 3>and eventually did choose band kind of over football, Like
<v Speaker 3>I kind of gave up the what would have led
<v Speaker 3>to a path to starting on varsity, to like not
<v Speaker 3>do the weight training class and do way training on
<v Speaker 3>my own, but play in a band because music meant
<v Speaker 3>so much to me that I wanted to do that.
<v Speaker 3>And I think I see that and Andrew that he
<v Speaker 3>would have wanted to look at him when he's performing
<v Speaker 3>and jamming out and stuff like does that having fun
<v Speaker 3>he's having fun, and that seemed like more authentically him
<v Speaker 3>the first time he actually like let himself loose and
<v Speaker 3>not been like uptight and rule following, and like playing
<v Speaker 3>a role and leaning into it and standing up to
<v Speaker 3>a bigger kid. It's probably could have kicked the shit
<v Speaker 3>out of him if he wanted to.
<v Speaker 1>Will you watch this movie again?
<v Speaker 3>Then? I will watch this movie till eternity because it's timeless,
<v Speaker 3>and I watched it in college in my adolescent psych class,
<v Speaker 3>and I love what the professor did with us of
<v Speaker 3>watching this and kind of exploring exactly what you said,
<v Speaker 3>the depth of teenage emotions, especially when we weren't so
<v Speaker 3>far removed from it as we are now that Hey
<v Speaker 3>remember how thoroughly and completely you felt things, and how also,
<v Speaker 3>like Molly said, confined to a like unrealistic standard it was.
<v Speaker 3>I think this movie so many things in such a
<v Speaker 3>just I love what you said clean and Chris Molly.
<v Speaker 3>From the the script writing standpoint, it is so clean.
<v Speaker 3>It nails its points, and it can be watched over
<v Speaker 3>and over again, maybe without the you know, slurs, but
<v Speaker 3>beyond that, it's excellent.
<v Speaker 4>I say, keep them in. I don't represent none of
<v Speaker 4>the groups represent me.
<v Speaker 5>But I just want to say if if you're just
<v Speaker 5>looking to have a little bit of vintage color, I
<v Speaker 5>think a stray f Sler written on a locker. I
<v Speaker 5>feel like the lgbt QIA plus community can agree that
<v Speaker 5>that's an important representation for the time.
<v Speaker 4>You know what I mean, you were bully.
<v Speaker 1>If we forget history, we repeat it, you know, yeah, oh.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't think we should erase it just like that,
<v Speaker 3>you know, if we were too uh, it needs to
<v Speaker 3>come with that caveat of like this was absolutely what
<v Speaker 3>would have been said it casually then but not Okay, now,
<v Speaker 3>let's not restart it.
<v Speaker 1>Well, on that note, we want to thank you again
<v Speaker 1>Molly for joining us. We really appreciate you taking the
<v Speaker 1>time out to what I think might be the longest
<v Speaker 1>episode we've ever recorded, so I appreciate your patience.
<v Speaker 5>I feel like that's crazy because I feel like the
<v Speaker 5>one I listened to the other day was like two
<v Speaker 5>and a half.
<v Speaker 4>Hours long, but this was like a fucking blast.
<v Speaker 5>I can't thank you for having me really honestly, such
<v Speaker 5>a pledge and the most fun. I really valued everyone's opinions,
<v Speaker 5>Like I'm a big fan of your show. Now like,
<v Speaker 5>I'm very honored to be a part of it, and
<v Speaker 5>I welcome you on my shows anytime, and I will
<v Speaker 5>come back anytime someone flakes, I'll be there.
<v Speaker 3>Well, we'd love to have you. This is a blast.
<v Speaker 3>We really appreciate you, and its honored to have you.
<v Speaker 2>You know that.
<v Speaker 1>It's so I'm gonna shout you out one more time.
<v Speaker 1>So if you enjoyed listening to Molly, you can check
<v Speaker 1>her out at Mother and My Sleep with podcast, which
<v Speaker 1>is Lifetime movie podcast I listen to, and that one
<v Speaker 1>is a chunk of time. That one I probably listened
<v Speaker 1>to over like two days because I think Molly, you
<v Speaker 1>can admit it's like three or four hours long.
<v Speaker 5>Well, that's the show that like, No, this is the
<v Speaker 5>show that people have been mad if I didn't do.
<v Speaker 2>So.
<v Speaker 5>I've been doing this show for a very long time.
<v Speaker 5>It was supposed to only be a fifteen episode series
<v Speaker 5>of Lifetime original movies that I was going to use
<v Speaker 5>as like a thing for my resume, and then it
<v Speaker 5>turned out being like wound up being this thing where
<v Speaker 5>people didn't want me to stop, and I stopped allowing stops.
<v Speaker 5>So I one thing I found out along the way
<v Speaker 5>Unfortunately is that when I try to scale the episodes back,
<v Speaker 5>people are like, I can't clean out my entire garage.
<v Speaker 4>To this episode of episode which.
<v Speaker 5>With this ninety minute shit, I have a whole garage
<v Speaker 5>to clean out. And so that's the relationship I think
<v Speaker 5>I have with my listeners, which is the lifetime relationship
<v Speaker 5>where it's the network of uh, doing your other house
<v Speaker 5>chores while you while it's on TV, Like it's.
<v Speaker 1>Sure passive passive entertainment. Yeah, and then I also want
<v Speaker 1>to shout out one more time your trend lightly podcast.
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate it and that it keeps me in
<v Speaker 1>the loop with things like vander Pump Rules and stuff
<v Speaker 1>that I don't watch or participate in, but I get
<v Speaker 1>to be in the know because, as Handah knows, I
<v Speaker 1>like to know what's going on even if I don't
<v Speaker 1>have like explicit interest in the thing that's trending. So
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that nugget you give me every week to
<v Speaker 1>stay in.
<v Speaker 4>Thank you, babe.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of course I feel like there was something Even
<v Speaker 1>in today's episode, I was like, I'm glad you're talking
<v Speaker 1>about this because I didn't know what people were talking
<v Speaker 1>about on TikTok, but I can't remember exactly City banklid, Yes,
<v Speaker 1>the Chase, the Chase bankleage.
<v Speaker 4>Then I was like, people.
<v Speaker 1>Are talking about this, I don't know what. And then
<v Speaker 1>as soon as you start talking about it, I think
<v Speaker 1>I went yes to myself in my kitchen because I
<v Speaker 1>was like, now I know what's going to go on.
<v Speaker 1>But any who, I have to do our little rigamar role.
<v Speaker 1>So if you would like to find us anywhere, you
<v Speaker 1>can find us on Instagram, tik Talk, Facebook at popcorn Psychology.
<v Speaker 1>You can find us on threads now at popcorn Psychology
<v Speaker 1>because we're no longer on Twitter or x or whatever.
<v Speaker 1>You can always email us at pop porm Psychology at
<v Speaker 1>gmail dot com. And if you would like to support us,
<v Speaker 1>we would always appreciate that, as we are a DIY podcast,
<v Speaker 1>so you can support us via Patreon or you can
<v Speaker 1>buy merch at teapublic, and as always, please leave us
<v Speaker 1>a rating and review. It's the cheapest way to support
<v Speaker 1>us and also the most effective way for new listeners
<v Speaker 1>to find us, and we really appreciate that. So everybody,
<v Speaker 1>you know, stay cool and stay out of trouble. Papa
<v Speaker 1>stop recording