Joan’s 411 on Fantasy Suites! | Happy Hour

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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to bet your Happy Hour.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe and I'm Serena.

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Speaker 1: And we are here today with none other than the past Golden Bachelor at Joan Joan. Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Hi guys, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 3: Have you been I'd been great, busy fall, but I'm ready for the cool weather. I think you're having it too in New York, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: It's here. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little bit chilly today, which is kind of nice. It matches like the fall mood. And as much as you know we love fall, we're very excited for Christmas.

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Speaker 2: So cold Christmas is coming.

00:00:37
Speaker 1: How's that? I know? How's everything with you and Chuck?

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Speaker 3: Everything's great. We had kind of a weird summer. We were both had made plans like prior to us kind of getting together, Like he had planned to go in a safari with the sun, so he was gone for two weeks. I was going for a different two weeks with on another vacation. So we kind of had like a weird summer where we didn't see each other a lot. But we've seen each other a lot in the fall, so and we have a lot of plans for the next like two or three months, so we're kind of back into our groove again.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's nice. What are the plans for the holidays?

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Speaker 3: So this year, so he's coming to my house for Thanksgiving and then Christmas, he's actually gonna spend in Wichita and I'm gonna spend here, and then we're gonna get together a couple of days afterwards and probably go through New Year's someplace, maybe here, maybe New York someplace. Yep.

00:01:26
Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 4: Did you guys ever end up getting a place in New York?

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Speaker 3: No, we're still looking. This is so hard, you know, and I know you get it if you're not living there, Like a place will come up and I'll go, okay, I can come up in like two days or like it'll be gone. So it's just too hard. We even put like offers in on places like a sight Unseen and there they rejected them because we hadn't seen them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh really, they like won't take it unless you've been there to see it.

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Speaker 2: Actually, they actually had a friend that told.

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Speaker 3: Me that, Yeah, they had multiple offers and they chose the one that had actually come to see the place. So which makes sense, I guess. If you havemultiple offers. So it's like a lot harder than we ever thought. So it's been a year of us like thinking we're going to get a place and we still don't. So I think for maybe the month of December, we're just gonna get an airbnb and just stay there for the month of December and May. First of all, I love it there in December, so I want to be there anyway, and then maybe that will give us a way to find a place. Hopefully some things will come up.

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Speaker 2: We're there, definitely, I.

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Speaker 1: Would say that makes that makes the most sense. It's definitely one of those cities where like if you want to get an apartment, you just have to come and get it. And unless you're gonna, like if you're gonna stay for a month, I think that's a good amount of time to find something that you really like. Yeah, if not, like the two days you're here, you just have to like suck it up and be like, Okay, whatever we find this place may not be my favorite, but I'm taking it.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's kind of what we did. We came in for I think like four or five.

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Speaker 1: Days, not even I think we were only here for we only looked at apartments for two week, did two days of looking.

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Speaker 4: We did one day in Brooklyn, one day in Manhattan, and then at the end of it we like they are front Slash for the stage. It was basically like you got to pick one. These will be gone in a day, so either you got to come back and look another time if you didn't find what you're loving, or hopefully you found something that feels like it worked. And we were like, all right, we're going.

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Speaker 2: We did.

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Speaker 4: We were like we're going with this one done, but it is intense. They don't mess around.

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Speaker 3: We were we were super picky, and now I'm like over that. So I think you knew that you had the lesson. Someone told you that that you can't be super picky. So now I was like, I only way to be in soho and I only went three bedrooms and like there's like two in the next year that will like fatisfy that criteria. So I'm just going to now just say I want to be in New York City and I'll figure out where i want to be once i'm there for like a more permanent thing.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and a month will be great because you'll be able to kind of spend some time in the city and figure out really like what your must haves are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, like a big closet, A big closet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always a good one.

00:03:45
Speaker 1: Yes, let's let's talk. Let's talk a little Golden. I want to ask your thoughts on this, because you were not on Gary season for too long, you ended up you ended up sending yourself home. But do you think so like Mel we kind of talked about like Mel and like kind of just struggling a little bit to open up. And I blame a lot of it on the fact that he's never been on a season like he was never on like your season for instance, to like kind of get comfortable in front of the cameras. Do you think that little bit of time that you were on Gary season helped you as the lead?

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Speaker 3: It definitely did. So the first I have to hand it, I have to hand it to Gary because he had no experience, and he's the one that made it good for us women. He was so open and so vulnerable and so emotional really that it made it easy for us. So I think having a lead that is good at that And they just happened to really hit the you know, the nose on the head. The head is that right nose on the head, because he was just naturally, like, very effusive with his emotions. So it definitely kind of made me more comfortable being that way. If I had had a lead like Mel, I probably would have came off maybe a lot more closed. But Gary was, you know, he was a great lead. He he made it so all of us women felt comfortable opening up. So yeah, definitely being on a season, But it depends on the lead of the season because I think, once again, if if Gary hadn't been so open, I think it would have eventually happened. I think women are just naturally possibly more emotional, especially as you get more and more tired and you get less and less away, you get longer long away from your home and your friends and your family, you feel more needy. So I do feel like the women would have gotten there on Gary season, and I think the women on Mel season have gotten there. I think men are going to have a harder time with it, and Mel certainly has struggled with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, makes sense. You you got to interview Sydney. It's a hard time, Cindy. You interviewed Sin on this podcast. Overall, like, would you take away from the interview, what are your thoughts on her?

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Speaker 3: So gosh, I think she is so incredibly bright and she's beautiful. I felt like she was giving more than he was giving, and she was very patient with him. And you know, she talked so much about her family while she was on the show, and she brought him to her home and introduced her to her daughters, who are like mean everything to her. So once again, I felt like she was really really giving and open and ready even with kind of very few signs from him. And I think she's been very patient and I hope it turns out for her. But I'm a little worried.

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Speaker 4: Interesting saying, yeah, we for Cindy at the beginning of the season, she was falling so hard and so fast. We were really feeling like protective over her in her emotions, but she seems to have kind of like gotten her footing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I'm curious to see how it played.

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Speaker 3: Totally agree. She was very emotional, and she said she's a very emotional person, So I think that came out so much in her interviews, like her emotions and that You're right, she got invested very quickly without ever having a date. So she had a date really really late in the season, and it seems like, okay, so Cheryl, you understand her getting invested. You understand some of the people that had earlier dates, you know, kind of feeling like they had a connection, and like we kind of know that when you were on Bachelor, the people that had the earlier dates have kind of a head start. So like, like I picked Chalk in the beginning because I wanted to see if, like I felt really good about him, and I wanted to like test my theory and if your theory is right. Sometimes those people just have a head start, So like Cheryl had a headstart, you know, DeBie kind of had one. I mean, there's a bunch of people that had headstarts. Cindy was the last one. Yet even regardless of that, she was already really emotionally involved with him.

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Speaker 1: Does she remind you, maybe not not like her herself, but like her journey or how she's handling this remind you of anyone from your season.

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Speaker 3: Like as far as being as yeah, actually a little bit of Leslie. She was very emotionally involved with him from the very beginning, even like when somebody would like somebody else would get a date card, she'd get really like upset about it if anybody.

00:08:23
Speaker 2: Was being really emotionally invested very quickly.

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Speaker 3: Very quickly, and then didn't get a date forever and gosh, I can't even remember. Oh and then her date was very sporty because she's really athletic and was ATVing and she was disappointed actually in her date because she wanted something more romantic.

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Speaker 4: Okay, interesting out of the other women from this season, who has kind of stuck out to you?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I love Debbie, you know, I ope.

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Speaker 4: My heart goes certain that it was going to be her and mouth at the end, he really.

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Speaker 3: Was, I'm with you, especially when it came down to the last three. I'm like, Okay, you got this, you got this girl. I was so disappointed when he sent her home. And I do kind of get it. You know, someone who's never been married before is coming to this into this, and that doesn't have children, is coming into this like in a different place in their life kind of, you know, as far as maturity and where you are in like you're maybe your career journey, you might be in the same place, but like to have this family and and I also have to say, like her date or her hometown seemed very different. It seemed like they were at a retirement community, like there was no young energy, and he is around a lot of young energy, Like in his life he has young sons. He's an athlete, so he's around you know, athletics, so you know, again younger people. So I think maybe Debbie's hometown kind of ruined it for her a little bit. I think otherwise they were a really good match.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: I know I thought at that, I thought about that. That makes because I remember even just like when he went to Cindy's house and the three young daughter and the laws their fiance.

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Speaker 4: I looked at it as Debbie would maybe feel like feel younger in terms of her stage of life because she hasn't been married and had children, like she almost her story really felt like it mirrored a lot of the stories of the women that go on the regular season of The Bachelor, like saying, you know, I'm looking for love, I've never been married.

00:10:28
Speaker 2: I want all of these things.

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Speaker 4: But right her her day to day life, because she doesn't have children or grandchildren, she spends way more time with people that are her age.

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Speaker 3: Probably and having kids and having grandkids really keep you young. Honestly, Like my kids keep me like kind of you know, I know the music, I'm out like, I go do fun things with them. I go to you know, beer gardens, and I'm on playgrounds with little kids. It keeps you young. She is in a very adult world. Even if you looked at her brothers and her sisters, they I felt like I was at a retirement community. I felt like we were sitting at the lawn at like a retirement place with all of the older people, and they were two younger people there. They kind of were over to the side, if you recall, and they didn't really I don't feel like they interacted it all with them. So even maybe they tried to get some young energy in, but it ended up they ended up really not being part of the program at all. And you know, I also think that we didn't see a lot of the hometown dates. It was a really quick episode, was a one hour episode with three hometowns. You didn't really get a sense of what they did other than meeting each other, meeting the families, and I'm sure they had something they did something else.

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Speaker 4: I'm actually glad they only did three hometowns because of that reason. I think if they had four, it would have felt very.

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Speaker 3: Rushed, nothing out of it.

00:11:48
Speaker 1: Now.

00:11:48
Speaker 3: I think we've had that problem anyway. I think we I feel like I haven't seen any of the relationships unfold this season. I feel like I've missed whole conversations that I should have had, Like for example, with with Cindy, like she's so invested in him. I'm like she just like, like all of a sudden like love him. She must have had had some really good interactions with him, and she's alluded to it, like she's had great conversations.

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Speaker 1: Did you ask her did you ask her that when you interviewed her.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we ever asked that. She certainly alluded that they had. In fact, I think she volunteered it. I remember saying, we had great conversations. It flowed very easily. They laughed like they you know, she definitely alluded to that. We never saw this with really almost anybody unless they had a one on one date. We never saw their little five minute things that we know happened all the time during dates and during the mansion, I mean at the mansion, even like before Rose ceremonies. Those are really important conversations. We saw almost none of them.

00:12:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Never I don't think we've seen any ROS ceremony.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't remember conversations.

00:12:48
Speaker 1: Were at the ROST ceremony. Yeah yeah, all of a.

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Speaker 3: Sudden, we're standing in front of the pool.

00:12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. True. Yeah, there's no Yeah, there's no like on this season. And I like, there's no like last minute conversation of like someone trying to save themselves someone like you know what. We don't get any of that.

00:13:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd be interested to see more of the conversations because I feel like I was thinking about this watching the Fantasy Suite episode, which we'll get into because I'd love to hear your thoughts on Peg in the episode. But I feel like mel is very locked in. He gives them their undivided attention. I mean, not like he's got his phone that he could look at anyway, but like when they're talking, like he is looking at them, he is engaged in what they are saying. But he's not a very open person emotionally, Like he's just not And so I'm wondering, like, are those conversations even there for us to see or like like, why aren't we seeing them as kind of I guess my question.

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Speaker 3: Such a good question because you think, like, these are all smart women, they and they have been around the block. All of them except for one has been married before, so they've had like deep relationships. So are they really falling in love with him without actually getting to know him, like actually getting more from him. I feel like he's probably getting giving more than what we're seeing. I just think maybe it was produced in a way that for some reason we didn't see that much from it. I'm hoping that's what it is. I feel like we are all like, oh God, Mel doesn't have a lot to give, or he's not giving, he's very very reserved, or maybe he's just not even into any of these women. Like you just don't know what to think because we're not seeing any of these conversations. We need to have them.

00:14:29
Speaker 2: I agree, And I'm going like you are.

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Speaker 4: I'm going off the women thinking like, all right, these are these are smart, accomplished women, Like there's no way they're all just like saying I'm ready to have a life with this guy without him giving them anything. But we're also seeing them start to push back so there is that kind of balance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is, You're right. Some of the ones now, as they're getting like this, oh shit, this could be real, they are pushing back a little bit and saying I need to know how you feel about me because they don't want to take that leap of faith and really fall in love, or really maybe they are. They're holding back a little bit. And you know, as long as you hold back and don't say it, you can climb almost undo it in your heart or in your head. But once you say it, it's out there, and it's hard to undo.

00:15:11
Speaker 1: As a former lead who's a success story, what are some of the like, what are some of the good things Mel's doing? Like what are you watching? You're like, oh, that's smart, Like you should should be doing that.

00:15:23
Speaker 3: So I actually think you shouldn't say I love you to more than one person. And it's really really hard not to give that back. When somebody says I'm falling in love with you or I'm in love with you, you're like, like, what do you say? It's so awkward. You say like oh thanks, or oh that's really sweet, thanks for telling me, or whatever. Anything you say is less than what they just said. So you are not giving a lot back. So he although I don't particularly he's doing it well, he is doing it and I have to applaud him for that because it's very hard to do. Gary had the opposite problem. He just told everybody loved him or the last three and that got him in more trouble than I think what Mel's getting in by not saying it. So I applaud him for that. I also, just like you said, Serena, I think he is so he gives them his undivided attention and he asks questions. The problem is he doesn't answer any questions or he answers them in a very like one or two word or one sentence answers. But he does ask questions. In fact, he found out really important things, like when he talked to Nicole and he said, where do you see yourself in five years? Well, she talked about her career making money, so he had a really good idea, like he needed to send her home. She wasn't there for the right reasons. So he's asking good questions, he's just not answering them. So I applaud him for not being overly emotional or at least going down the path of I love you, or like you're the one kind of thing that Gary has done and lots of leads have done. But I do think he is doing such a and I also think he's doing such a good job of like finding out what he needs to know.

00:16:50
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, I agree. I agree.

00:16:52
Speaker 4: He's very inquisitive. He definitely is like a data collector. Is how he tress me, Like he's trying to get He keeps using terminology like educated guests and things like that. He's trying to collect as much information to make a decision.

00:17:06
Speaker 2: He's just like so insanely left rain dominant.

00:17:08
Speaker 3: It's wild, You're so true, so true. And also think he's pretty good in his interviews, like like he says very nice things about the women, like about their energy, or about how smart they are, or about how they make him feel. So to the camera he's able to give us some emotion a little bit, he's unable to give it to them.

00:17:28
Speaker 1: Well, I mean we saw at the women tell all that all the women like him, Like no one had anything.

00:17:34
Speaker 3: Bad to say about him, not a thing I know.

00:17:36
Speaker 1: So he's definitely doing He's definitely doing something right out of out of all the women let's let's pretend Mell picks no one at the end, so a peg in Cindy are included in this equation. Who would you choose to be the next Golden Bachelor.

00:17:51
Speaker 3: Att hmmm, So I have two that I would choose, Okay, so for well, maybe even three. So the first one I would say is Debbie. I love having someone completely different, and I think that we need a little shakeup. So Bachelor Nation needs a little shake up, and to have an older person that's never been married, so I know how it is to be single at this age now, and it's not fun. The rest of the world are couples. So I think she brings a different perspective to, you know, like to the dating world that we don't really know that well because you know, we are in a world of couples. It's she's existed for sixty over sixty years not being a couple. So I think she brings an interesting, interesting perspective and I kind of like that, and I think Bachelor Nation needs a little bit of shakeup. My other, my second one is I really love Terry, and I know that that's probably an outlier a little bit. I think that she's just very kind and you saw that women tell all, she kind of came to people's rescue, like she was complimentary of Nicole, which very few people were. And I just think she's funny. I mean, I thought she had that puppet puppet that was just funny. And I love that she could just make fun of herself and just be goofy. I also think she's extremely right. She's a dentist, and I think she's beautiful. And you know what, she's seventy two years old. No one would ever can you believe that?

00:19:23
Speaker 2: So I didn't know that. Wow, I know.

00:19:25
Speaker 3: And I think that we kind of liked a little bit of an older bachelor or bachelorette. Everybody loved Gary and they love that he was more of like a grandfather figure, that he was a little in the older age bracket, that he was a little more funny duddy, that he was a little like you think, oh, he needs us to find him love, He's never going to find it on his own. I think we liked the idea.

00:19:50
Speaker 1: Yeah that's true.

00:19:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure if Terry gives that same energy. But I like that she's a little bit older, so they could cast some older men for her. You almost want somebody that needs help of course, like Diane. How about Diane, Like she was in the world, she was so so so suked. Maybe she'd be a great one. I mean, we want somebody that we are rooting for, and we need that in the next Bachelorette.

00:20:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, good points.

00:20:20
Speaker 4: What did you think about the Fantasy Suite episode?

00:20:25
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like we have a cliffhanger. Obviously we don't know what happens with Cindy. I think the peg part of the day was kind of funny. I think she learned something about him and about kind of how cautious he is, so you know, like we'll touch on fantasy sweet, but I just bought the date part. He was he was driving like an old man, and she has the absolute opposite energy. She likes going best, and she likes like she's even trying to get him good fast. She's like hooping and hollering and like yeah, and he's still like just driving like this, like slowly in the go, in the in the cart. So I do feel a little like she learned something about him that maybe she thought was true, but now she really got a taste of it. Like he doesn't even drive fast in an ATV like on a tropical island.

00:21:12
Speaker 4: It's funny because Jared Freed was on the podcast and he said something that kind of stuck with me when talking about Peg, which he was like, I'm sure Mal is good for Peg in certain ways, but he was like, Peg is good for Mal, like she is he she is going to be someone that like really just like pulls him out of his shell and like picks him up and is like, let's go kind of thing.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: The morning after the Fantasy Suite was the first time we saw mel Oh god, he was like blush.

00:21:40
Speaker 2: I was like down last day.

00:21:43
Speaker 3: I think they had fun.

00:21:45
Speaker 1: He was that was that was the happiest I've seen him.

00:21:51
Speaker 3: He was like and most comfortable, Like he was so comfortable, like I feel like, Okay, we're getting a glimpseep maybe the mill that they've been seeing but we haven't been seen all. Yeah.

00:22:00
Speaker 4: He was like laying back and his jeans on the bed, just lounging.

00:22:04
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, well, although I think I felt like he was the same way when they did the photo shoot for People magazine. I think it was People. So when they did the photoshoot on the beach, I think he likes being shortless because he was so comfortable on that beach because he was shortless all the time. I think he likes shown off at me as a great physique. So I think maybe maybe feels comfortable showing off.

00:22:25
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe.

00:22:27
Speaker 4: Okay, So you know the ATV part happens with Peg and Mau. What did you think about kind of their night conversation.

00:22:34
Speaker 3: Night conversation again, kind of not super telling. He held back a lot, And this is the point in the season where I feel like, when you get down to the final two, you need to be like brutally honest, and I don't think he is being yet. I think he still gives himself this free pass to hold back and someone needs to call him on it, and Peg did not. I feel like Cindy might, We don't. She's looking a little like, hmmm, like we kind of had this cliffhanger with her him not giving her what she needed in her like looking at him a little sideways, like like this is your sister has taken too long. I don't know if I can, you know, keep investing Peg gave him a prepass.

00:23:20
Speaker 1: Do you think Peg, you think Pag may have asked him when the cameras went down. In fantasy suites, I.

00:23:25
Speaker 3: Do, and I think maybe he's more comfortable talking in fantasy suits, which is the reason fantasy suites are so important. I think that. First of all, I think they're very odd. Fantasy suites are because it's just, I mean, everything you do in the show is abnormal dating this is particularly abnormal. Like when do you ever announce to an entire millions of people that you're going to go and have a physical relationship with. So we're in closest store and we might have a physical relationship right now, and it's just so uncomfortable. I feel like I shouldn't. I don't belong there. I don't want to know about it. It's it's very uncomfortable to me. But the other part about fantasy suites that is really important is that you do get to close the door and the cameras go away, and you can have the conversations you need to have, which is why I like had fantasy suites without a bed. Not that a bed really makes a difference. I mean, you can do it anywhere, but I mean it was just it was a statement. It was a statement to the person I was with, we're not doing this.

00:24:21
Speaker 2: But the end of the visual cue to the audience.

00:24:23
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, but that those behind the door conversations are super important because if you want to say something that you don't want the whole world to know. First of all, your family didn't sign up to go on national TV and have everything about your life revealed. So you need to talk families, You need to talk, you know, other parts of your life, not just like you right there in this moment falling in love with you. There's you have a whole world, a whole life you left behind that you need to talk about. You need to talk finances you took, religion, you need to talk all those things. So fantasy seats are important, and that's the thing that I think is important about them. I think though the thought of so this is a leap of faith. There's no way that you come to the end of this journey one hundred percent sure of the person. So I'm not sure why you have to answer every question like the physical question part of this. Now, obviously that needs to work. You need to have chemistry. You should probably know that you have chemistry at this point and that you know finishing it off, making sure it all works doesn't have to be part of this journey, like the leap of faith that you know, some things don't need to be answered and you can figure that out, you know, in the next couple of weeks or next couple of months or whatever. And you know, lots of people don't work and it's not because of the physical thing. There's other things that you're going to find out. So I don't know. I feel like the Fantasy Suite is a good time for people that are uncomfortable having conversations about their emotions. They do happen there, and I feel like Peg got something from that one. She just didn't get a physical encounter. I feel like she got what she needed because she woke up happy as can be, and I think she's do.

00:26:04
Speaker 1: You think she's in him? Like, do you think Pegs into him?

00:26:08
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:26:08
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like, you know what, they had such a friend energy at their one on one date. It didn't feel romantic, even like when they were watching Casey in the Sunshie Band and they were dancing, I felt like they're like, I'm not sure Peg is a romantic person, and I don't think Mel is a romantic person. So I think the two of them are not romantic people together, I think as romantic as they can possibly get and as in love as they can be. On TV we saw in the bedroom, we saw that next morning.

00:26:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

00:26:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, what did you think of Cindy and the sing Rays and their night portion?

00:26:51
Speaker 3: Once again, mel like not as super fun happy, But what's kind of interesting because I feel like he's presented himself to be like mister activity, mister adventures.

00:27:01
Speaker 1: He's he's he's sports, you know, and there's there's so I took it. There's there's rules in sports and you know the way the game's played.

00:27:09
Speaker 4: Where definitely a risk adverse person, both like in his activity in his relationships, Like he is someone that likes certainty and predictability, just both through the activities and in the romantic conversations he's had.

00:27:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's more like so true in football, Yeah, like you have more control. There's like there's there's rules to the game. Where you dropped me in the middle of the ocean with like stingrays, I wouldn't want I mean, I wouldn't like that.

00:27:33
Speaker 2: You would not know.

00:27:34
Speaker 1: I wouldn't like it.

00:27:35
Speaker 3: You wouldn't liked it. I did it with guy I had sharks and stingrays and they're like jumping there. I'm like, I'm not jumping in there, and they're like it's safe, and I'm like, all right, I'll jump in there. So I jumped in and I had a great time. Actually it was really fun. You know, once again, the idea of a leap of faith is going to be a problem for mel. This was a leap of faith, like, I'm gonna trust these people that have done this. They said, we've done been doing this for twenty four years and we've never had anybody get stung. Okay, we've ever had an incident. He still had a hard time taking that leap of faith. A lot of life is leaps of faith. You just try it and you hope it works out. I'm worried. Just like you said, he's risk adverse. I kind of call him leap of faith a verse and that's really hard in this on the show, like you have to be a little braver, and he show He's shown it multiple times. He's shown it with the ATV and he showed it with the stingrays. He just doesn't like doing things that make him uncomfortable, and a lot of this is uncomfortable like you're you're hoping that the risk is worth the reward, and I don't feel like he is a risky guy.

00:28:40
Speaker 1: Do you think he gets down one knee at the end.

00:28:44
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be hard. He has not.

00:28:48
Speaker 1: I don't just based off of everything that you're saying. Is kind of how I agree with what you're saying, and I just I don't think. I think he looks at it like that's that's too unrealistic for me.

00:29:00
Speaker 3: It's he's absolutely, unequivocally he said I'm not in love with either one of you.

00:29:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:29:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's literally said it.

00:29:08
Speaker 4: Ye.

00:29:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I am not there yet. I don't know what's to come, but I'm not there right the second he's absolutely said it. I can imagine between fantasy suites and what there's usually like two or three days or maybe four days in between the first fantasy suite and then the second one, meeting families, meeting his family and getting down on one knee. You only have a few days. They're in that few day period right now. Yeah, I have a hard time seeing him falling in love and proposing.

00:29:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, but if he does, if he does it, I support him either way, but I'll be surprised if he proposes.

00:29:42
Speaker 1: My guess is, Peg, they don't get engaged and they date after the show.

00:29:51
Speaker 2: Do you think if that's what happens, they're still to the other today.

00:29:54
Speaker 1: I think there's I think they could. Yeah, I think they're still together.

00:30:00
Speaker 3: I think it's that I think if he does my opinion, if he doesn't get engaged, he's gonna be a really popular guy when the show finishes airing, and he won't end up with anybody from the season. He's gonna have a lot of women going after him, and I feel like he'll like that attention. Wow, Okay, And I can say that in meanway because I totally get that he's a great looking guy.

00:30:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think?

00:30:28
Speaker 2: I don't know. I honestly don't know.

00:30:30
Speaker 4: I feel like to me, I've always said throughout the season, him and Cindy have this very giddy like almost like young cute, flirty energy between them. I feel like it's the most like soft and romantic I've seen him throughout the season, which makes me feel inclined that that's where he's gonna go. I mean, like, PEG's my girl, I literally love her, but that if we're we're thinking romance. I think Cindy is romance. I think Cindy is the fit. But I don't mel is making a decision off of feelings and romance as much as he is like logic for.

00:31:08
Speaker 1: You're right away, whatever reason, For whatever reason, I just have like since the beginning, I'm like, it's not going to be Cindy. I don't know why. I think. I think she's great. I just I think it's I think it's the edit. Whatever the edit is doing that I'm just picking up, and I'm just like, I just don't think it's going to be her. I think like we are supposed to think like it should be her, but it's not. But I could be totally wrong. I might just be misreading this.

00:31:34
Speaker 4: I think they're setting up the edit for a more shocking heartbreak with Cindy than they would with Tag.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: That's what I Yeah, that's what I'm reading too, But I don't.

00:31:41
Speaker 3: Know, which then makes me think it's not going to be Peg. Like I I we had the cliffhanger with Cindy, so then it makes me feel like I don't I don't know, but I do.

00:31:51
Speaker 1: I do.

00:31:52
Speaker 3: Like what you said, Serena about like that little bit of romance, because like I said, I feel like they were he and peg are really playful. I don't see a lot of romance there at all, honestly, just because I don't think either one of them are particularly romantic people. I think she's super fun. I think he has a hard time giving. But I did really was a very surprised at the date where they did on that Butterfly Mountain where he was so spiritual, He was so into all of those individual dates with the women, so totally shocked me. So maybe there is something with he and Cindy, because I feel like maybe she's more I don't know, maybe not spiritual, but certainly more introspective, and that that might be a better match for him than peg. M.

00:32:35
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we're all just reading way too much into this.

00:32:38
Speaker 4: We know so much.

00:32:40
Speaker 1: I think we might be doing that. Joan, it was a pleasure of talking to you, so great. To you guys, next time you're in New York. Hopefully we see you.

00:32:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll text you guys.

00:32:52
Speaker 1: Okay. Thanks for having me, of course, and to all our listeners, thank you guys for tuning into Better Happy Hour. Make sure you donald and subscribe to the podcast will have.

00:33:00
Speaker 2: New and excusive recaxting interviews come your way.

00:33:03
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening, Bye,