292 | When It Feels Like "Nothing" Is Happening in Session—How to Add Variety Without Losing the Model

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Melissa in Colorado.

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Hello to my Coloradans.

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I don't know how that's how you say that,

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but

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My cousin actually lives in Colorado.

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He used to live outside of Erie and now he lives outside of Boulder.

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So I would love to come visit him at some point and

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meet up with all of you.

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So I'll let you all know if,

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if I make my way out west.

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So Melissa's question is about

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content reflection and feeling reflection in the playroom,

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and she feels like that's a struggle,

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so she's kind of processing some scenarios where she finds that difficult

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and so we'll be able to talk through that together.

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By the way,

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related to comment on the

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reflective responses.

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I just closed out my 3 week training with Corwell on the advanced pillars,

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and a huge thank you to all of you that attended,

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and I know many of you are

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collective folks and coaching folks,

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and so it was so fun to interact with y'all and spend 3 Fridays in a row.

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So I really appreciate y'all being a part of that.

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If you all did not have the chance to attend live,

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you can watch those on demand.

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And so if you want to check that out,

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go to childcentered Training.com

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and you'll be able to see the on-demand version of those training courses,

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and that's 9 CEs.

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So just wanted to make you aware and say thank you to those of you that attended.

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We,

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we had a fun time hanging out for 3 Fridays.

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OK,

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so Melissa,

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you're feeling like the content reflection and emotional

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reflection are hanging you up a little bit.

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So let's read a little bit of the email and then we'll dive in.

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I'm seeking guidance on how to

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effectively use CCPT for the kids I work with in the future.

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For more context,

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I feel like I'm lacking in content

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reflection and emotional reflection in the playroom.

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The reason that I feel like I lack the emotional and content reflection is that

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it seems like my kids are not doing much in the playroom for me to reflect

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the first few sessions.

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For example,

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most kids I've worked with start coloring for about 4

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to 5 sessions before they transition into other play.

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While the kids are coloring,

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I'm only able to reflect about three things.

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You decided you want to use that color.

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You're making sure the drawing painting is turning out the way you like.

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You decided on a different color,

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and I end up repeating what I've already said.

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We've all been there.

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Then when it comes to emotions,

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they don't seem to show much emotion,

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so I rarely reflect them.

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I get annoyed with myself for not being able to say

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anything new and see that sometimes my kids are also annoyed

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that I keep saying what they're doing like a robot.

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I also find myself stumbling on content or emotions when there is more context.

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I'm wondering if you have any tips on how I can

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expand on reflecting content or feelings when there seems to be

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no new substance or work on being more confident in my

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reflection as well as how often I should be reflecting.

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OK,

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so Melissa,

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thank you for the question and

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we

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I mean,

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early,

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early on in the podcast,

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you know,

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I,

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when I went through the,

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the basic seminal content,

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we talked about

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the three reflective responses pretty in depth,

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and we kind of went through the process of what that looks like,

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but

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I do find it is tricky

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to

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extend beyond just the basics.

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So once we've been doing this a while.

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We learn to work in some other things

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and it becomes a little bit more conversational and fluid rather than just

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attract behavior,

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I reflect content,

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I reflect feeling that can become quite monotonous and actually

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a little bit annoying for both us and the kids.

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So

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this is a really helpful question.

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Thanks,

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Melissa.

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I appreciate it.

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OK,

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so here's

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my comment on the first part of this.

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You said,

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I feel like I'm

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struggling to do this because my kids aren't doing

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much in the playroom for the first few sessions.

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All right,

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well,

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I think first and foremost we have to understand

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the process a little bit here and trust it.

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I actually don't think that you're struggling because

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they're not doing much in the playroom.

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I think you're struggling because you're not trusting the process

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and recognizing that that's actually really normal and appropriate behavior.

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So we need to look at phases.

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The very first part of

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the process is the initiation phase.

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Kids are trying to figure out what this is all about.

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You're a stranger,

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it's a strange room,

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it's a strange process,

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and they're coming in.

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There's a lot of investigating,

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there's a lot of exploring,

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and there's a lot of relationship building,

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rapport building trust building.

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Funding,

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all of those things are taking place.

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It's very common

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for kids not to really engage in a whole lot

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for any length of time,

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especially in those 1st 4 to 5 sessions.

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Why?

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Because they're not even sure what this is all about.

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They don't know you,

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they don't trust you,

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they have no sense of this whole,

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you get to play with all the toys in most of the

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ways that you want and you're in charge when you're here.

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That that's all a foreign concept to kids.

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So

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it's appropriate for them to flit around,

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not really settle on things,

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do safe play,

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just kind of explore and see what this is all about.

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So we can't have expectations that they're going to quote do important work

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in those early weeks.

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So I think maybe the hang up in that scenario is.

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You're just not familiar enough with the normality of what you're describing

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and therefore it's making you uncomfortable when in reality,

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that's actually a very normal process.

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So I think that may help with that piece.

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You also mentioned that they start coloring for 4 to 5 sessions.

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That's safe play.

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Coloring is

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predictable,

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it's consistent,

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it's easy.

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They can govern it.

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There are no surprises,

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and it doesn't require vulnerability.

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So it makes sense that in that initiation phase,

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kids are going to feel comfortable coloring

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and maybe not comfortable doing other things.

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So that also is very normal and appropriate.

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So when you said you end up really being able to track only a few things.

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OK,

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I wanna make it really clear because you're using the phrase reflecting content,

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but what I think you mean is tracking behavior.

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So let me make sure this is clear,

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especially for those of you that may be new to the podcast.

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So glad you're here.

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Welcome.

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This is an incredible family of CCPTs,

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so you have found your tribe for sure.

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If you are new and you are not familiar with the

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really basic seminal CCPT or even if you think you are,

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I would highly encourage you to go back and listen to episode one and go in order,

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binge listen,

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speed me up so that you can get two in for the same amount of time,

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whatever you need to do,

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go and start an order.

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It will give you really deep seminal training in the whole model.

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So just for discussion's sake,

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let's be really clear.

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The three reflective responses are reflecting

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feelings where the child expresses an emotion

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and we respond back with what the child has expressed.

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You are feeling word optional qualifier,

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so that's reflecting feelings.

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Reflecting content is we say back to the child what the child has said out loud.

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So child says something and we summarize or paraphrase

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what the child has said in a very short response

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and we give it to them back.

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What they said to us,

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we say back.

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Tracking behavior is when we say what the child is doing.

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And Melissa,

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I think that's actually what you're referring to when you described,

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you decided you wanted to use that color,

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you're making sure it's turning out the way that you like.

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Those are tracking behavior responses,

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not reflection of content.

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So I think that you meant tracking behavior,

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which is when you say what the child is doing.

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Just wanted to make sure that was really clear for

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anyone that hasn't been well versed in the reflective responses.

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So,

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we absolutely want to do that when a child is

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not talking,

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so we can't reflect content.

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When a child isn't clearly expressing emotion,

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we can't reflect feeling.

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We're left with tracking behavior.

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So we are going to say things like,

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you chose that color.

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Now,

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that's actually

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an esteem building response because if we say you decided or you chose,

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that's a hybrid.

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So we're actually getting an esteem building and

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a

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Tracking of behavior,

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phrase together.

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That's helpful.

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You're making sure the drawing is turning out the way that you like.

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That's a little bit of an enlargement,

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as well as a tracking.

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So you're doing a lot of hybrids,

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whether you know it or not,

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Melissa,

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and

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you chose a different color.

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Again,

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that's uh an esteem building response as well as a tracking of behavior.

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When we

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run out of

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tracking behavior options,

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you know,

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the child's using the same color

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over and over and over again and just filling in a whole area of purple.

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You know,

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they made a shape and they're coloring the whole thing in purple.

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You can only say so many times,

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oh,

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you're coloring that part,

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now you moved over there,

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you changed direction.

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Oh,

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you're making sure you get every spot filled up.

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OK,

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that,

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and no wonder you feel annoyed,

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no wonder they sometimes get a little bit annoyed.

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It can't sound robotic.

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It can't sound like you're just

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giving a play by play of everything that happens.

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So the way that you work around that is you balance tracking of behavior,

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which is the simple,

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this is what I see you doing.

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Oh,

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you grabbed that marker.

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You're coloring that spot in,

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you're filling the whole thing in.

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OK,

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simple tracking of behavior phrases.

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We want to balance that with some narration

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and some narrative summary or commentary.

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00:09:35,599 --> 00:09:39,489
So the way that you do that is you integrate almost on in every other

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comment pace.

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00:09:41,929 --> 00:09:42,640
You track

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00:09:42,809 --> 00:09:43,609
and then you narrate.

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00:09:43,770 --> 00:09:46,039
So narrate might look might look like,

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00:09:46,609 --> 00:09:46,909
oh,

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00:09:47,010 --> 00:09:48,799
you have something in mind for over there.

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00:09:50,619 --> 00:09:51,640
Notice that

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00:09:51,919 --> 00:09:54,510
the child stopped maybe coloring the purple

285
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:55,789
square.

286
00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:59,340
And was looking at the other edge of the page.

287
00:10:00,419 --> 00:10:00,900
OK,

288
00:10:01,140 --> 00:10:01,659
so you,

289
00:10:01,780 --> 00:10:05,210
you're going to provide a little bit of narration

290
00:10:05,460 --> 00:10:08,820
and observation rather than specific tracking.

291
00:10:10,229 --> 00:10:10,780
So

292
00:10:10,989 --> 00:10:13,059
the tracking is very simple

293
00:10:13,309 --> 00:10:14,900
just about behavior,

294
00:10:15,349 --> 00:10:17,789
and that is what becomes really laborious

295
00:10:17,789 --> 00:10:20,539
and monotonous and therefore irritating often.

296
00:10:21,229 --> 00:10:25,500
So the balance to be struck is making sure that we're narrating

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00:10:25,830 --> 00:10:26,989
what we see happening.

298
00:10:27,070 --> 00:10:28,979
That will balance it out a little bit

299
00:10:29,429 --> 00:10:31,969
so that the child doesn't feel like you're just

300
00:10:32,330 --> 00:10:35,869
commenting the same thing over and over again and it gives you more

301
00:10:36,229 --> 00:10:39,260
in your repertoire to share out loud with the child.

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00:10:39,869 --> 00:10:41,489
And make you not feel like,

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00:10:41,580 --> 00:10:41,940
oh gosh,

304
00:10:42,020 --> 00:10:43,179
I really have nothing to say,

305
00:10:43,260 --> 00:10:45,380
but the same phrase over and over and over again.

306
00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:47,690
And then you said you find yourself

307
00:10:47,690 --> 00:10:50,809
stumbling when there's more context and emotions.

308
00:10:51,130 --> 00:10:51,369
OK,

309
00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:53,320
so that's just a a practice.

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00:10:53,969 --> 00:10:54,599
So

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00:10:54,890 --> 00:10:57,390
make sure that you build your own emotional vocabulary,

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00:10:57,450 --> 00:10:58,080
number one.

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00:10:58,369 --> 00:11:00,719
It's really difficult for us to reflect feelings

314
00:11:01,130 --> 00:11:04,679
if we do not have a robust enough emotional vocabulary ourselves.

315
00:11:04,849 --> 00:11:08,580
I talked a lot about that in the Advanced Reflecting Feelings workshop.

316
00:11:08,890 --> 00:11:10,440
You have to do your own work.

317
00:11:10,650 --> 00:11:14,640
You have to have a really large emotional vocabulary.

318
00:11:14,909 --> 00:11:18,280
In order to actively reflect children's feelings,

319
00:11:18,650 --> 00:11:19,690
you can't default to happy,

320
00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:19,929
sad,

321
00:11:20,010 --> 00:11:20,159
mad,

322
00:11:20,169 --> 00:11:20,719
and scared.

323
00:11:20,729 --> 00:11:21,679
It's not enough.

324
00:11:22,450 --> 00:11:24,880
So that's your own work that needs to come in

325
00:11:25,130 --> 00:11:29,280
as far as the tracking of behavior or reflecting content when there's more context,

326
00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:31,479
that's just a practice scenario.

327
00:11:31,729 --> 00:11:32,809
And my favorite thing,

328
00:11:32,849 --> 00:11:34,010
I've mentioned this several times,

329
00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:35,250
but my favorite thing

330
00:11:35,530 --> 00:11:36,080
is

331
00:11:36,409 --> 00:11:39,450
think of a scenario in my head when I'm not in a playroom.

332
00:11:40,229 --> 00:11:44,940
That happens pretty regularly and I challenge myself to practice the skill.

333
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:47,739
So if I'm struggling with limit setting,

334
00:11:47,799 --> 00:11:49,869
if I'm struggling with reflective responses,

335
00:11:50,539 --> 00:11:52,119
if I'm struggling with encouragement,

336
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:53,869
whatever the scenario is,

337
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:55,030
I

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00:11:55,359 --> 00:11:56,950
pose a scenario in my head.

339
00:11:58,250 --> 00:12:00,250
Child is coloring a picture,

340
00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:02,320
not saying a word for 10 minutes.

341
00:12:02,729 --> 00:12:03,169
Go.

342
00:12:03,609 --> 00:12:06,239
And I forced myself to practice

343
00:12:06,570 --> 00:12:07,570
what I would say,

344
00:12:07,969 --> 00:12:08,919
how I would say it,

345
00:12:09,090 --> 00:12:10,169
what I would work in,

346
00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:11,960
what skills I would be using.

347
00:12:12,830 --> 00:12:16,780
Because if you wait until you're in a session with a child

348
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:17,979
and try to do it,

349
00:12:18,049 --> 00:12:19,859
it's really difficult in real time,

350
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:22,299
but if you've practiced it outside of the playroom,

351
00:12:22,349 --> 00:12:23,700
it becomes muscle memory

352
00:12:24,109 --> 00:12:26,900
and it is far easier to implement

353
00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:29,260
when it's a little bit more

354
00:12:29,510 --> 00:12:33,830
rote rather than I'm trying to fumble my way through it

355
00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:35,859
when I haven't really had a lot of practice doing it,

356
00:12:36,070 --> 00:12:38,309
so that would be a huge strategy that I would implement.

357
00:12:39,380 --> 00:12:39,969
And

358
00:12:40,140 --> 00:12:43,750
when you said there's no new subs no no new substance or work,

359
00:12:44,099 --> 00:12:47,250
you find it difficult to be confident in what you're saying.

360
00:12:47,580 --> 00:12:47,880
I,

361
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,979
I want to challenge that notion a little bit

362
00:12:50,219 --> 00:12:52,250
for all of us because I think all of us

363
00:12:52,539 --> 00:12:54,609
get caught up in thinking that way sometimes.

364
00:12:55,219 --> 00:12:56,530
Every single thing

365
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:58,020
that happens in the playroom

366
00:12:58,380 --> 00:12:59,219
has substance.

367
00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:02,539
Every single thing that happens in the playroom

368
00:13:02,830 --> 00:13:04,869
is related to their work that they're doing.

369
00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:07,770
There's always significance.

370
00:13:07,950 --> 00:13:09,400
It's always valuable.

371
00:13:10,330 --> 00:13:11,640
They don't have to talk.

372
00:13:11,770 --> 00:13:13,159
They don't have to play.

373
00:13:13,450 --> 00:13:14,770
There's no expectations,

374
00:13:14,890 --> 00:13:16,059
only expectancy.

375
00:13:17,450 --> 00:13:20,200
We have to be really careful that we're not

376
00:13:20,530 --> 00:13:21,799
inadvertently

377
00:13:22,210 --> 00:13:22,880
or,

378
00:13:23,289 --> 00:13:23,450
you know,

379
00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:25,440
kind of as an underhanded thing,

380
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:28,479
wanting kids to do certain things.

381
00:13:29,469 --> 00:13:31,039
Anything that they do,

382
00:13:31,270 --> 00:13:32,219
whether they avoid,

383
00:13:32,229 --> 00:13:33,260
whether they resist,

384
00:13:33,469 --> 00:13:34,500
whether they jump in,

385
00:13:34,669 --> 00:13:35,510
whether they're hesitant,

386
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:36,390
whether they're quiet,

387
00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:37,349
whether they're loud,

388
00:13:37,530 --> 00:13:38,900
they're Tasmanian devil,

389
00:13:39,070 --> 00:13:40,030
they're room wrecking,

390
00:13:40,109 --> 00:13:41,099
they're mess making,

391
00:13:41,309 --> 00:13:42,140
they're crying,

392
00:13:42,390 --> 00:13:42,979
they're

393
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:44,659
running out to the lobby to see mom,

394
00:13:44,830 --> 00:13:46,539
they refuse to come back to the playroom,

395
00:13:46,950 --> 00:13:48,320
whatever the scenario is,

396
00:13:48,630 --> 00:13:50,020
it does not matter.

397
00:13:50,349 --> 00:13:51,099
It is

398
00:13:51,789 --> 00:13:52,940
full of substance,

399
00:13:53,229 --> 00:13:55,900
it is part of their work and it is

400
00:13:56,229 --> 00:13:56,940
noteworthy.

401
00:13:57,109 --> 00:13:58,059
It's important,

402
00:13:58,349 --> 00:13:59,070
it's needed.

403
00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:01,770
So we have to be careful

404
00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:03,409
that we don't

405
00:14:03,739 --> 00:14:04,609
have

406
00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:06,359
an expectation in our head

407
00:14:06,539 --> 00:14:07,950
of what this looks like

408
00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:09,809
we trust the child,

409
00:14:09,979 --> 00:14:11,369
we trust the process,

410
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:12,690
we trust the model

411
00:14:13,380 --> 00:14:15,169
and when we're able to do those things,

412
00:14:15,460 --> 00:14:17,030
even when we have quiet sessions,

413
00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:19,580
even when we have sessions where the kid colors the whole time.

414
00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:23,570
Even when we have a session where the child doesn't give us a whole lot to work with.

415
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:24,280
I mean,

416
00:14:24,359 --> 00:14:24,520
look,

417
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,109
emotions are

418
00:14:26,359 --> 00:14:27,979
often nonverbally communicated,

419
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,840
so that's another skill we need to build is our ability to

420
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,630
look at the child's facial expression and recognize what the emotion is.

421
00:14:35,669 --> 00:14:35,890
We,

422
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,280
we have to be adept

423
00:14:37,479 --> 00:14:40,719
at recognizing microexpressions on a child's face because they're

424
00:14:40,719 --> 00:14:43,229
very unlikely to tell you how they're feeling.

425
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,280
It's going to be behavioral or facial.

426
00:14:46,989 --> 00:14:51,520
So that's another thing we need to build is our capacity to recognize those things.

427
00:14:51,809 --> 00:14:52,520
But look,

428
00:14:52,690 --> 00:14:56,340
a child isn't necessarily going to be overly emotional every single session

429
00:14:56,669 --> 00:14:59,880
doesn't mean that they're not working through things and feeling things.

430
00:15:00,450 --> 00:15:02,059
They may not say a whole lot

431
00:15:02,479 --> 00:15:03,320
across the session

432
00:15:03,650 --> 00:15:06,000
doesn't mean they're not processing and working through things.

433
00:15:07,210 --> 00:15:09,369
Even if a child comes in and chooses not to do

434
00:15:09,369 --> 00:15:11,799
anything but sit on the floor for the entire 50 minutes.

435
00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:15,289
So what can you track other than your choosing to just sit?

436
00:15:16,239 --> 00:15:17,669
You're sitting right there on the floor.

437
00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:20,950
You're choosing to just sit in the middle of the playroom.

438
00:15:21,159 --> 00:15:21,320
I mean,

439
00:15:21,359 --> 00:15:22,559
you can only say that so many times,

440
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:23,030
right?

441
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,630
But that's also an indication of the work

442
00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:28,919
and the substance of what they're processing.

443
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:30,630
So,

444
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,030
Melissa in Colorado,

445
00:15:32,059 --> 00:15:33,039
thank you so much for the question.

446
00:15:33,119 --> 00:15:34,789
I hope that that's helpful to all of you.

447
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,960
We all have those moments where we can doubt,

448
00:15:38,159 --> 00:15:39,190
where we can second guess,

449
00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:40,679
where we don't feel confident,

450
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,049
where we're not really sure what to do or why.

451
00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:47,159
And so hopefully that gives you some strategies so that it seems

452
00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:49,989
a little bit easier when you're in that situation in the future.

453
00:15:50,479 --> 00:15:50,679
All right,

454
00:15:50,739 --> 00:15:51,669
you know how much I love you.

455
00:15:51,719 --> 00:15:53,109
I appreciate you hanging out with me each week.

456
00:15:53,119 --> 00:15:53,950
We'll talk again soon.

457
00:15:54,119 --> 00:15:54,320
Bye.

458
00:15:55,390 --> 00:15:58,150
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

459
00:15:58,309 --> 00:15:59,260
Brenna Hicks.

460
00:15:59,429 --> 00:16:01,419
For more episodes and resources,

461
00:16:01,510 --> 00:16:06,270
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.